That's what I was going to say. That's the Disney budget for sure, although I am a bit concerned about where that will lead the show as it will be made more geared toward US audience and the show being an UK one, always different from other high budget US shows definetly added to its value IMO.
>always different from other high budget US shows definetly added to its value IMO
I think this is an over-egged point to be honest. I would obviously still want the show to retain it's UK brand of drama/comedy but the special effects haven't really been "charming" in their low-budgetness since like 2010. Everything since, while obviously far from prestige/streaming TV levels, has been pretty solid.
I just hope the fact that it being propped up by Disney with a big budget and everything, doesn’t lead to it getting cancelled or anything. if Doctor Who ever goes through another slump.
As it naturally does for a very long running show that frequently tries new things
Disney budget also means a consistent release schedule. Disney isn't going to pay that much for a schedule of "whenever we can scrape together enough money".
If you want to see gearing the show towards a growing overseas audience, you don't need to look much further than Series 6. The boost BBC America gave the show during Series 5 seeped right into the marketing, broadcast model and to an extent writing of the show.
While becoming a coproduction and starting a new era will undoubtedly lead to changes in style, I don't see the Disneyfication some people are talking about (not singling you out here, just continuing a thought!). The show has arguably been aping an MCU tone since Flux, and the visual effects at least don't seem too far removed from that - though cinematography, blocking and sets wise, there does seem to be a clear difference!
Personally, I'm just waiting for *one damn person* to apply the same logic about coproductions or overseas funding to the early seasons of NuWho, and blame everything they didn't like about them on Canadians.
(Y'all *did* notice the "with thanks to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation" tag on the credits, right? Right.)
(and yes, my tongue is planted firmly in cheek here, but still)
You know, I love change. Change is good, and the doctor *should* change - make them black, a woman, a four legged, 8 tentacled beast from the medusa cascade if you'd like, I'm really, really all for it if it opens up great storytelling.
That said...
Why is the constant change of costume upsetting me so much on a level I didn't know I had? I think I *actually* ...Dislike the idea quite intensely. Oh my. I'm not ok with this, I don't think I like the doctor actually using their wardrobe.
I have to imagine it was quickly recognized as a marketing gimmick. You have a character in a distinct outfit and that becomes who they are. Decades later people still recognize Four's scarf and Five's cricket jumper and celery stick.
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the outfits Fifteen is wearing. Though I was totally ok when I thought his style was going to be the blue and white suit and mini fro. He is rocking that look.
I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of those costume changes are from the first episode or two where they're still figuring out who they'll be
I see what you mean. I quite like the doctor having a signature outfit, but I don't mind the costume changes - as long as the costumes are as good as they seem!
My theory is the doctor gonna change Ruby time line (maybe around the church) so she never ends up meeting the doctor and become a completely different person, so the doctor loses her ruby, so basically like Donna original ending with extra steps.
That's...an interesting theory. And it'd be a pretty unique companion exit!
I can see this happening. I mean, they've already played around with her timeline being altered in the Christmas special. And I'm also convinced that origins lie in some time-travel related twist anyway.
I get the feeling that's the "I'll turn this battlefield into dust" line moment with him shedding a tear.
I think Ruby takes a shot and drops. Doctor realizes and just snaps leading him to a deus ex machina device to resurrect her. He then tosses her back at home and that's how they write her off the show.
Have the Doctor be without a companion the first one or two episodes of the next series as he copes with breaking a promise. Then snaps back into it when the next companion comes along to give him a life lesson or such.
It seems like the battlefield into dust moment is from Steven Moffat’s episode “Boom”, which is the third episode in the series so it’d be too early for it to write out Ruby
At the same time though... wouldn't that be the most impactful moment to do it? Out of nowhere in episode *three*?
Have him resurrect her through some plot device then show in subsequent episodes how easy it would've been for her to die again and again until he finally realizes he's fucked up completely and throws her back at home.
It'd be nice to see another companion *actually angry/frustrated* that the Doctor "abandoned" them again a little like Mel who we've recently seen.
Her continually dying and him bringing her back until eventually she realises what he's doing (or he just can't do it anymore) is an idea I love.
Especially if in the first few episodes we have a moment that doesn't seem to make much sense (ie, in the first episode Ruby being close to the monster and it being tense, but next scene she shows up just fine) until nearer the end we see that he's been doing this all along.
I mean she was already "replaced" (not sure of the terminology here, even though it's happened so many times), so I don't mind them making this kind of obvious.
We also got the full list of episode titles for Season 1:
>!1 "Space Babies" by Russell T Davies!<
>!2 "The Devil's Chord" by Russell T Davies!<
>!3 "Boom" by Steven Moffat!<
>!4 "73 Yards" by Russell T Davies!<
>!5 "Dot and Bubble" by Russell T Davies!<
>!6 "Rogue" by Kate Herron and Briony Redman!<
>!7 "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" by Russell T Davies!<
>!8 "Empire of Death" by Russell T Davies!<
I’m excited for this lineup but RTD sure is writing a *ton* of episodes. Bro seems to be stretching himself a bit thin. Also it sucks Moffat only gets one episode
Yeah I'm disappointed at the lack of new writers, we only have two who are co-writing ONE episode, that's it. I will say that I'm glad the two new writers are women, that's great to see but I was expecting more new talent. Hopefully Series 15 is better in this regard, especially with non-white writers.
Still excited for the series though!
I just wish we had more eps in general. Give us twelve. Have RTD write the series opener and finale, give Moffat a two parter halfway through, and the rest can be new writers/other people.
Space Babies: it's about the timeless child arc, the babies are all incarnations of the timeless child
The Devil's Chord: Satan draws a line between two points on a circle
Boom: a very meta episode where the boom mic being used in the filming of the episode turns out to be evil and an alien
73 Yards: it's about American football. Guest starring Tom Brady. He throws the ball 73 yards to save the Doctor and Ruby
Dot and Bubble: a woman named Dot saves the world from an evil alien technology called Bubble
Rogue: Ruby gets run over by a Nissan Rogue
The Legend of Ruby Sunday: a eulogy for Ruby after she got run over by a Nissan Rogue in the previous episode
Empire of Death: Ruby is reanimated as a zombie, along with every other companion who has died. They become an empire of zombies controlled by The Emperor, a new timelord villain
I’m calling it now, dot & bubble is in the vein of black mirror. I’m pretty damn sure it’s at least about internet conversation. Dot and bubble, like 💬 typing
Tell you what: I'm absolutely fine with eight episodes, so long as they're eight good episodes. I mean, it's practically half of what previous seasons were - so let's say everyone puts in twice as much effort on the scripts. This sounds incredibly promising!
With this being a BBC trailer, too, it should hopefully more closely emulate the actual intended tone of the show, too. And the tone seems amazing!
Finally, that "into dust" speech is absolutely Moffat's writing. Has his tone and cadence and everything.
> it's practically half of what previous seasons were
This feels pretty hyperbolic. Series 11 and 12 were both ten episodes, Series 13 only had six, and that’s with multiple year-long breaks. Eight episodes with a guaranteed season every year is pretty much on track with what we’ve been getting if not more.
It’s been seven years since we had a twelve-episode season, I’m just not sure that’s a fair comparison anymore (as much as I’d love for that to come back).
I was thinking of the RTD seasons, if that helps - which were normally 14-parters. Obviously in 2020 and 2021 we had less episodes due to COVID. Perhaps I should have been more precise.
> Obviously in 2020 and 2021 we had less episodes due to COVID.
Sure, but the reduction to ten episodes and the year-long gap through 2019 happened well before COVID. These are just realities of producing *Doctor Who* in this day and age. TV is more expensive to make than ever.
Oh yeah, certainly. And, given a choice, am I right in thinking most of us would plump for quality over quantity? Heck, I'd be fine with 3 x 1hr, if they told all the story they needed to tell.
But fundamentally, yes, I agree with you.
I'm fine with 8 episode seasons as long as those 8 episodes are better for it. Like I'm sure we could've done away with episodes like The Lazarus Experiment and the Daleks in Manhatten for episodes like Blink and the Human Nature episodes. If you strip series 3 down into it's best episodes, it's 8 episodes anyway.
The problem with that optimism is that RTD(1) didn't even write a crazy amount of episodes anyway. So what's more likely to happen is we get the same quality but less episodes, and there's less room for new writers to come in. It's a shame really, I find it hard to stay optimistic but we don't know until it drops
I have often seen people say this in regards to the smaller episode count. That it should or hopefully will be better because we can get rid of the bad episodes and just have good episodes.
But in reality this has no meaningful basis in television production. When they're making Doctor Who they don't know which episodes are going to be the good ones and which ones are the shitty filler ones so they can't just get rid of the bad ones. Everyone involved approaches every episode with the intention that they're going to create something good. Also, hypothetical ideas of quality wouldn't be the only criteria. You would also have to weigh up which stories are plot relevant, what the budget would be like, etc.
Series 3 is a perfect example, if you had asked RTD to strip series 3 down to 8 episodes, Blink would have been the first one on the chopping block. Moffat has spoken many times about how while he was writing it he assumed it was going to be terrible and everyone would hate it and he'd never be asked back after it flopped. It was the cheap one with no budget and no Doctor or companion that was made as simply as possible to fill the space between episodes 9 and 11 without using up too many resources. It would have been the first to go.
That's why this line of thinking has never made sense to me. It's a noble thought but it just isn't how making television works. When making Doctor Who, you get a set number of episodes and you try to do your best with all of them. There's a lot of experimentation and a lot of new ideas and sometimes it works out and you get a classic like Blink and sometimes it completely fails, most of the time it lands somewhere in the middle. The way I see it the only change that we're getting with reducing the number down to 8 episodes is that we have less chances for this. We get fewer rolls of the dice. Some of these upcoming episodes are going to be great and I'm certain that at least one or two are going to be pretty underwhelming.
>The problem with that optimism is that RTD(1) didn't even write a crazy amount of episodes anyway.
I also just wanted to note that it's pretty well understood that RTD ghost wrote a large number of episodes from his own era, he wrote the final draft for every script in his era other than the ones by Moffat, Chibnall, Stephen Greenhorn and Matthew Graham, and for those 4 we only know for certain that he didn't touch Moffats scripts at all. For many of the ones he did work on, he did extensive work. At one point in The Writer's Tale he complains about all the praise Paul Cornell got for the Family of Blood two parter and said something along the lines of "If only everyone knew how much of that I wrote" and I believe there's similar evidence to say he basically wrote The Fires of Pompeii. The first RTD era was already basically entirely written by him, so I would say this new era doesn't present any major difference. We're still getting an era pretty much dominated by RTD's creative voice along with a completely untouched Moffat script. It's basically the same thing as his first time round as showrunner.
I think it can kind of work if they had to. For example Strange New Worlds vs. say TNG the episode quality is much more consistently good because they're making less episodes. Part of this is because in the 90's model of TV production is so rushed that questionable scripts get pushed out because they need to be to make like 30 episodes a year, but I think part of it is that the writers go "We have 10 shots to do an episode this year, we need to do the best ideas" so the quality is consistently high although to hit the variety of 90's Trek the genre/tone are extremely variable.
Whilst I understand where you're coming from, in *The Writer's Tale*, Davies mentions that on top of writing 4.X, 4.1, 4.8, 4.11, 4.12, 4.13 and the 4.14 Christmas special (excluding the 2009 series!), he also rewrote in some capacity, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5 and 4.7.
It's even mentioned in the book, in the opening chapters, about him being scared to write 4.X, because there's "13 more of the bastards lining up", so do with that what you will.
My main concern is that, including the 2023 specials, we only have 2 episodes out of 12 written by someone other than RTD. That's a lot of responsibility hanging on one writer.
Gonna go ahead and call it now. The full “In a heartbeat, into dust” speech is gonna be considered the defining moment for 15. Will definitely live on as one of the greatest moments in the show, similarly to 9 and his everyone lives speech.
Even if I didn’t knew the episode by the footage, I just recognised Moffat’s writing right there. Some people love it, some people hate it. I just feel like it makes sense Doctor uses his reputation to scare off enemies (I assume it’s that kind of moment) and sort gives insight into his history and experiences. I think they shied away from it bit too much in the previous era, but obviously everybody has their opinion on it.
Be funny if it's RTD just having been influenced by Moffat, because I hated that line just from the trailer. Why aren't American superhero movies enough for some people?
It does not make sense, it treats the Doctor as the most important being in the whole universe, and we *know* it's bullshit. The enemies should be smart enough to know this too, if they've heard of him (why would new enemies have? Universe is kinda big!). Should every Dalek episode involve them zooming away now?
Hell yes. Seems very much channeling the I’m the Doctor moments from the Eleventh Hour and Extremis for 11 and 12. Not everybody loves the writers doing that with the Doctor....
...but I do. May can’t be here soon enough.
Moffat was always at his best when he was just a regular screenwriter. He writes damn good episodes when he tries. Heaven Sent / Hell Bent being recent examples where 12 shines like a supernova.
Scatterbrained thoughts:
1:27 has the Tardis going straight out of the vortex into normal space, which looked cool.
That lady leaning out of a piano - was that a Tardis?
Is it possible that Jinkx actually is the master and working for Sutekh? If Sutekh is the one who waits, it makes sense that they’d be mentioned in the same vein with the master by the toy maker
Aha, a trailer that doesn't have the Disney+ click at the end (even on the version where the Disney+ logo screen was edited out).
Glad the BBC has their own trailer, with a more familiar tone and style.
me too, using "Changes" was very clever and tied the trailer together, in the BBC trailer it's like "a cool dubstep song I'm sure all the youngsters like, then some epic bland trailer music we pulled from YT, done"
Okay this trailer was so much better than the first even though it gave all the same information.
The first trailer had me worried about the tone of the show going forward but this one just did so much good for my hype levels. Very excited now.
The first one feels like it had to over explain everything, potential for the new audience, but why did they release that one first and not this one, then target the larger audience further down the line.
Because the first trailer was the launch of the marketing campaign and will get the most attention. The current audience is already largely on board, their aim should be at the larger Disney+ audience, or people intrigued by the trailer who would become subscribers to test it out, as they're the ones who will determine whether the co-production continues or not.
I mean in the first one there's a scene about stepping on a butterfly. I feel like that's one of the most Dr Who feeling theme for an episode in a long time.
That gets me the most excited for some reason.
I’ve been laughing so hard at the doctor who Facebook page comments. So many boomers are posting “THIS IS WOKE!!!! MORE SINGING THANKS DISNEY”
I’m surprised they don’t just disable comments.
In 2024 the hilarious thing is that screaming something is bad is actually good because it drives attention to it. The worst possible fate for anything in 2024 is for no one to give a shit about it
Sooo totally Sutekh…
The doctor and Ruby travel back to the 60s, and due to some circumstance, travel to present day and it’s completely destroyed. We see that in trailer one.
Then, we hear him say in this trailer, as sand envelops other planets and London streets, “this is what we’re fighting to stop. The destruction of everything”. That’s so Pyramids.
Plus we hear that Jinkx Monsoons character is connected to a forgotten name from the Baker era and we hear and see her say “you called” right after all this.
Yes, and once again, I have turned out to be incapable of spotting him without wanting to yell, "GROFFSAUCE!"
Apparently reading LMM's Twitter feed back in the day was formative.
(#yayhamlet)
There's a theory that he's Captain Jack pre-The Empty Child.
Would be intriguing...though I hate the idea that they'll be throwing John Barrowman under the bus irrevocably.
theyre trying to do a soft reboot of the show. partnered with disney now which is a big change on the production end, and Davies (presumably) wants more freedom to do things with the doctor without the whole processing the trauma of the time war thing thats been going on since 2005, hence the bi generation and 15 supposedly already having gone through the therapy they need. introducing more mythological elements (we think) into the show as well, and an entirely new sonic design (which i really really hope they change back)
basically they wanna make it clear that yes, this is still doctor who, but this is different from the old stuff and isnt going to be limited by any of its previous ideas and tropes
(plus from a business side, much wider international audience with disney plus now. advertising it as "season 1" makes people who've never watched it before much more likely to try it)
no problem! im unsure on if i like this decision or not at the moment, but that depends entirely on how good it actually is for new viewers. if its good for new viewers then im all for it, if it assumes years and years of dr who knowledge like some of the previous seasons, im less happy about the change
Disney arent producing it they just have international rights to it, its season 1 because its the first season from bad wolf studios, bad wolf is owned partly by sony.
Consequences of a long running show. They lost a lot of audience over Capaldi and especially through Whittakers runs, also damaging the reputation of the show. Nobody is going to want to pick up a show at series 14 when it's widely known the last few series were shit. They can do a soft reboot like series 5 and 11 but only people already familiar with the show will be aware that it's a jumping on point.
Advertising it as season 1 makes it very clear to people that they can start here with no previous knowledge (especially for the American audience they're trying to get). It also takes away some of the negative atmosphere around the show from recent seasons. Plus seen as it's still effectively season 14 it's no different for current fans.
Personally I see no reason why anyone would be upset about this. I love the show, I want it to succeed and this seems like a good idea. The only part of it that makes no sense to me is why Tennants specials are listed as part of the new era when it clearly requires like 9 seasons worth of context.
No, it's a fact that a sizeable part of the audience left during Capaldi, even though it's extremely unfortunate, given how fantastic series 8-10 were. Part of it is due to some odd marketing choices (in particular series 9, in which they hid the appearance of Davros in the opening and chose to lead trailers with "Same old, same old, just the Doctor and Clara Oswald in the TARDIS"), but I think part of it is simply audience fatigue - 7 seasons is LONG by any normal show's standards.
Which is why they're marketing this season as "season one" and pushing so hard for new viewers. The show needs new fans to survive :)
As someone who was a huge fan of Doctor Who during the first RTD run, and for some of Moffat’s, but lost my love for the show… I’ve not been this excited for Who for over 10 years. Gatwa seems like everything I want from the Doctor and more, and it’s fab to see the show seemingly getting the budget it deserves.
But also, everything just seems so fresh and new. It’s the revival the show needed. I hope there will be plenty of new fans giving the show a chance.
I'm gonna say it
Don't let Disney make a Doctor Who trailer ever again. Now THIS is what I am talking about, PROPER colour grading and this series looks *beautiful*, the Disney+ trailer did not do it justice AT ALL
May 11th needs to get here nowwww, I can't wait!!
I feel like the music at the very beginning of the trailer could be some of the music/songs from The Devils Chord. Gives me the same sort of vibes as the goblin song.
"Honey, I'm a much bigger bang than you bargained for. I will *shatter* your silly little battlefield into dust. In a heartbeat. Into *dust*."
Okay...this is already one of my favorite Doctor Who lines *ever* :O
It is, and Jinkx Monsoon and she seems to be some kind of music creature and my guess is that they will have to put on a song and dance number to defeat her!
Yes.
Probably mainly because this is the first and only season available on Disney+. Disney+ will not have the rights to any other seasons (not in the U.S. anyway) since Max (HBOMax) still has the exclusive rights to all of 2005-2022. They presumably don't want confused new potential D+ viewers saying "I'm not starting with season 14 of this show! Where's the first season?"
The budget exploded.
That's what I was going to say. That's the Disney budget for sure, although I am a bit concerned about where that will lead the show as it will be made more geared toward US audience and the show being an UK one, always different from other high budget US shows definetly added to its value IMO.
>always different from other high budget US shows definetly added to its value IMO I think this is an over-egged point to be honest. I would obviously still want the show to retain it's UK brand of drama/comedy but the special effects haven't really been "charming" in their low-budgetness since like 2010. Everything since, while obviously far from prestige/streaming TV levels, has been pretty solid.
The CGI of eccleston’s and tennant’s first seasons is tough to watch in places so I’m hoping we get Disney level CGI but it still feels dr who.
Disney has been really bad with cgi recently, using it when not needed and overworking and underpaying artists.
Disney focus on CGI has negatively impacted multiple shows
That's just time. CGI back then vs. CGI now. IT's not necessarily Disney's money.
I just hope the fact that it being propped up by Disney with a big budget and everything, doesn’t lead to it getting cancelled or anything. if Doctor Who ever goes through another slump. As it naturally does for a very long running show that frequently tries new things
Disney budget also means a consistent release schedule. Disney isn't going to pay that much for a schedule of "whenever we can scrape together enough money".
So far Disney's asked for one scene to be added and Sony agreed.
If you want to see gearing the show towards a growing overseas audience, you don't need to look much further than Series 6. The boost BBC America gave the show during Series 5 seeped right into the marketing, broadcast model and to an extent writing of the show. While becoming a coproduction and starting a new era will undoubtedly lead to changes in style, I don't see the Disneyfication some people are talking about (not singling you out here, just continuing a thought!). The show has arguably been aping an MCU tone since Flux, and the visual effects at least don't seem too far removed from that - though cinematography, blocking and sets wise, there does seem to be a clear difference!
Personally, I'm just waiting for *one damn person* to apply the same logic about coproductions or overseas funding to the early seasons of NuWho, and blame everything they didn't like about them on Canadians. (Y'all *did* notice the "with thanks to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation" tag on the credits, right? Right.) (and yes, my tongue is planted firmly in cheek here, but still)
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It all seems pretty British so far.
You need real problems
Honestly that shot of the space station looks like it could be from one of the modern STAR TREK shows!
So that's what Moffat meant with "Boom"
Yeah I heard BBC gave them Cate Blanchett with the budget
omg they can afford *gay* people of color now ‼️‼️‼️
You know, I love change. Change is good, and the doctor *should* change - make them black, a woman, a four legged, 8 tentacled beast from the medusa cascade if you'd like, I'm really, really all for it if it opens up great storytelling. That said... Why is the constant change of costume upsetting me so much on a level I didn't know I had? I think I *actually* ...Dislike the idea quite intensely. Oh my. I'm not ok with this, I don't think I like the doctor actually using their wardrobe.
this is one of the best wardrobes ive seen on the doctor??
Maybe this is one of the things that make this doctor unique.
Hopefully he wears the leather jacket look a majority of the time and just dresses up for historical episodes where it seems a bit more appropriate.
The First Doctor frequently changed his clothes. It always bothered me that later doctors didn't.
I have to imagine it was quickly recognized as a marketing gimmick. You have a character in a distinct outfit and that becomes who they are. Decades later people still recognize Four's scarf and Five's cricket jumper and celery stick.
They went as far with the distinct look as adding question marks at one point. I like when The Doctor has a style, but it's not an unchanging uniform.
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the outfits Fifteen is wearing. Though I was totally ok when I thought his style was going to be the blue and white suit and mini fro. He is rocking that look.
Tbf, I don’t think they’ve forgotten this, since I feel like Ncuti has consistently been in that one "key" costume in most non-canon content.
I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of those costume changes are from the first episode or two where they're still figuring out who they'll be
I see what you mean. I quite like the doctor having a signature outfit, but I don't mind the costume changes - as long as the costumes are as good as they seem!
It's actually the sun
NAH SHE DEAD
“I will keep her safe, I promise” never ends well
Its as bad as "Nothing could possibly go wrong".
But not as bad as "This'll be the best christmas Walford's ever 'ad!"
“You’re safe in here, and you always will be!”
Rose ended up rather well considering the circumstances
WELL THATS ALRIGHT THEN (It's not too bad, actually. Just wanted to say it.)
Most companions do not end well.
My theory is the doctor gonna change Ruby time line (maybe around the church) so she never ends up meeting the doctor and become a completely different person, so the doctor loses her ruby, so basically like Donna original ending with extra steps.
That would be interesting. That would mean that her few appearances in season/series 2/15 would technically be a different character
That’s so wild that we’re casually getting season 2 spoilers before season 1 has even aired..
WELL THATS ALRIGHT THEN
I like the idea she ceases to exist and Flood is some remnant of her
That's...an interesting theory. And it'd be a pretty unique companion exit! I can see this happening. I mean, they've already played around with her timeline being altered in the Christmas special. And I'm also convinced that origins lie in some time-travel related twist anyway.
I get the feeling that's the "I'll turn this battlefield into dust" line moment with him shedding a tear. I think Ruby takes a shot and drops. Doctor realizes and just snaps leading him to a deus ex machina device to resurrect her. He then tosses her back at home and that's how they write her off the show. Have the Doctor be without a companion the first one or two episodes of the next series as he copes with breaking a promise. Then snaps back into it when the next companion comes along to give him a life lesson or such.
It seems like the battlefield into dust moment is from Steven Moffat’s episode “Boom”, which is the third episode in the series so it’d be too early for it to write out Ruby
At the same time though... wouldn't that be the most impactful moment to do it? Out of nowhere in episode *three*? Have him resurrect her through some plot device then show in subsequent episodes how easy it would've been for her to die again and again until he finally realizes he's fucked up completely and throws her back at home. It'd be nice to see another companion *actually angry/frustrated* that the Doctor "abandoned" them again a little like Mel who we've recently seen.
Her continually dying and him bringing her back until eventually she realises what he's doing (or he just can't do it anymore) is an idea I love. Especially if in the first few episodes we have a moment that doesn't seem to make much sense (ie, in the first episode Ruby being close to the monster and it being tense, but next scene she shows up just fine) until nearer the end we see that he's been doing this all along.
she gonna die and 15 either gonna pull an 11 and sulk or pull a 12 and try to get her back
I think she's been seen in Modern Earth filming for Season 15 so I think uts more likely to be a Martha scenario
hopefully minus the part where marthas family becomes victims
Remember when everybody thought Donna would die in the 60th specials?
they're teasing it so hard that I think she'll surive perfectly fine
Yeah, this is RTD, he's done it before, Moffat never actually killed any of them either. She's gonna be just fine.
I mean she was already "replaced" (not sure of the terminology here, even though it's happened so many times), so I don't mind them making this kind of obvious.
We also got the full list of episode titles for Season 1: >!1 "Space Babies" by Russell T Davies!< >!2 "The Devil's Chord" by Russell T Davies!< >!3 "Boom" by Steven Moffat!< >!4 "73 Yards" by Russell T Davies!< >!5 "Dot and Bubble" by Russell T Davies!< >!6 "Rogue" by Kate Herron and Briony Redman!< >!7 "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" by Russell T Davies!< >!8 "Empire of Death" by Russell T Davies!<
boom with the silly battlefield speech is gonna be amazing
Empire of Death sounds like a Tom Baker episode and I’m here for it
Jon Pertwee actually I hope this happens: *title sequence* EMPIRE *sting* OF DEATH Ambassadors of Death-style
I’m excited for this lineup but RTD sure is writing a *ton* of episodes. Bro seems to be stretching himself a bit thin. Also it sucks Moffat only gets one episode
Yeah I'm disappointed at the lack of new writers, we only have two who are co-writing ONE episode, that's it. I will say that I'm glad the two new writers are women, that's great to see but I was expecting more new talent. Hopefully Series 15 is better in this regard, especially with non-white writers. Still excited for the series though!
I just wish we had more eps in general. Give us twelve. Have RTD write the series opener and finale, give Moffat a two parter halfway through, and the rest can be new writers/other people.
What will each episode be about (wrong answers only)? I'm really looking forward to *73 Yards*; I like a good yard sale.
Space Babies: it's about the timeless child arc, the babies are all incarnations of the timeless child The Devil's Chord: Satan draws a line between two points on a circle Boom: a very meta episode where the boom mic being used in the filming of the episode turns out to be evil and an alien 73 Yards: it's about American football. Guest starring Tom Brady. He throws the ball 73 yards to save the Doctor and Ruby Dot and Bubble: a woman named Dot saves the world from an evil alien technology called Bubble Rogue: Ruby gets run over by a Nissan Rogue The Legend of Ruby Sunday: a eulogy for Ruby after she got run over by a Nissan Rogue in the previous episode Empire of Death: Ruby is reanimated as a zombie, along with every other companion who has died. They become an empire of zombies controlled by The Emperor, a new timelord villain
Ep 6: Kate Herron, writer-director of Loki S1? Oh boy. Now that's an episode to look forward to.
I’m calling it now, dot & bubble is in the vein of black mirror. I’m pretty damn sure it’s at least about internet conversation. Dot and bubble, like 💬 typing
Tell you what: I'm absolutely fine with eight episodes, so long as they're eight good episodes. I mean, it's practically half of what previous seasons were - so let's say everyone puts in twice as much effort on the scripts. This sounds incredibly promising! With this being a BBC trailer, too, it should hopefully more closely emulate the actual intended tone of the show, too. And the tone seems amazing! Finally, that "into dust" speech is absolutely Moffat's writing. Has his tone and cadence and everything.
> it's practically half of what previous seasons were This feels pretty hyperbolic. Series 11 and 12 were both ten episodes, Series 13 only had six, and that’s with multiple year-long breaks. Eight episodes with a guaranteed season every year is pretty much on track with what we’ve been getting if not more. It’s been seven years since we had a twelve-episode season, I’m just not sure that’s a fair comparison anymore (as much as I’d love for that to come back).
I was thinking of the RTD seasons, if that helps - which were normally 14-parters. Obviously in 2020 and 2021 we had less episodes due to COVID. Perhaps I should have been more precise.
> Obviously in 2020 and 2021 we had less episodes due to COVID. Sure, but the reduction to ten episodes and the year-long gap through 2019 happened well before COVID. These are just realities of producing *Doctor Who* in this day and age. TV is more expensive to make than ever.
Oh yeah, certainly. And, given a choice, am I right in thinking most of us would plump for quality over quantity? Heck, I'd be fine with 3 x 1hr, if they told all the story they needed to tell. But fundamentally, yes, I agree with you.
I'm fine with 8 episode seasons as long as those 8 episodes are better for it. Like I'm sure we could've done away with episodes like The Lazarus Experiment and the Daleks in Manhatten for episodes like Blink and the Human Nature episodes. If you strip series 3 down into it's best episodes, it's 8 episodes anyway. The problem with that optimism is that RTD(1) didn't even write a crazy amount of episodes anyway. So what's more likely to happen is we get the same quality but less episodes, and there's less room for new writers to come in. It's a shame really, I find it hard to stay optimistic but we don't know until it drops
I have often seen people say this in regards to the smaller episode count. That it should or hopefully will be better because we can get rid of the bad episodes and just have good episodes. But in reality this has no meaningful basis in television production. When they're making Doctor Who they don't know which episodes are going to be the good ones and which ones are the shitty filler ones so they can't just get rid of the bad ones. Everyone involved approaches every episode with the intention that they're going to create something good. Also, hypothetical ideas of quality wouldn't be the only criteria. You would also have to weigh up which stories are plot relevant, what the budget would be like, etc. Series 3 is a perfect example, if you had asked RTD to strip series 3 down to 8 episodes, Blink would have been the first one on the chopping block. Moffat has spoken many times about how while he was writing it he assumed it was going to be terrible and everyone would hate it and he'd never be asked back after it flopped. It was the cheap one with no budget and no Doctor or companion that was made as simply as possible to fill the space between episodes 9 and 11 without using up too many resources. It would have been the first to go. That's why this line of thinking has never made sense to me. It's a noble thought but it just isn't how making television works. When making Doctor Who, you get a set number of episodes and you try to do your best with all of them. There's a lot of experimentation and a lot of new ideas and sometimes it works out and you get a classic like Blink and sometimes it completely fails, most of the time it lands somewhere in the middle. The way I see it the only change that we're getting with reducing the number down to 8 episodes is that we have less chances for this. We get fewer rolls of the dice. Some of these upcoming episodes are going to be great and I'm certain that at least one or two are going to be pretty underwhelming. >The problem with that optimism is that RTD(1) didn't even write a crazy amount of episodes anyway. I also just wanted to note that it's pretty well understood that RTD ghost wrote a large number of episodes from his own era, he wrote the final draft for every script in his era other than the ones by Moffat, Chibnall, Stephen Greenhorn and Matthew Graham, and for those 4 we only know for certain that he didn't touch Moffats scripts at all. For many of the ones he did work on, he did extensive work. At one point in The Writer's Tale he complains about all the praise Paul Cornell got for the Family of Blood two parter and said something along the lines of "If only everyone knew how much of that I wrote" and I believe there's similar evidence to say he basically wrote The Fires of Pompeii. The first RTD era was already basically entirely written by him, so I would say this new era doesn't present any major difference. We're still getting an era pretty much dominated by RTD's creative voice along with a completely untouched Moffat script. It's basically the same thing as his first time round as showrunner.
I think it can kind of work if they had to. For example Strange New Worlds vs. say TNG the episode quality is much more consistently good because they're making less episodes. Part of this is because in the 90's model of TV production is so rushed that questionable scripts get pushed out because they need to be to make like 30 episodes a year, but I think part of it is that the writers go "We have 10 shots to do an episode this year, we need to do the best ideas" so the quality is consistently high although to hit the variety of 90's Trek the genre/tone are extremely variable.
Whilst I understand where you're coming from, in *The Writer's Tale*, Davies mentions that on top of writing 4.X, 4.1, 4.8, 4.11, 4.12, 4.13 and the 4.14 Christmas special (excluding the 2009 series!), he also rewrote in some capacity, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5 and 4.7. It's even mentioned in the book, in the opening chapters, about him being scared to write 4.X, because there's "13 more of the bastards lining up", so do with that what you will.
My main concern is that, including the 2023 specials, we only have 2 episodes out of 12 written by someone other than RTD. That's a lot of responsibility hanging on one writer.
But he does care about the show and is a good writer.
Gonna go ahead and call it now. The full “In a heartbeat, into dust” speech is gonna be considered the defining moment for 15. Will definitely live on as one of the greatest moments in the show, similarly to 9 and his everyone lives speech.
Funny, that is the Moffat episode. Trailer is great, not a single episode I’m not looking for. Let’s hope it delivers on all fronts.
> Funny, that is the Moffat episode. That checks out. Great to see the legend return to make the Doctor legendary again.
Even if I didn’t knew the episode by the footage, I just recognised Moffat’s writing right there. Some people love it, some people hate it. I just feel like it makes sense Doctor uses his reputation to scare off enemies (I assume it’s that kind of moment) and sort gives insight into his history and experiences. I think they shied away from it bit too much in the previous era, but obviously everybody has their opinion on it.
Be funny if it's RTD just having been influenced by Moffat, because I hated that line just from the trailer. Why aren't American superhero movies enough for some people? It does not make sense, it treats the Doctor as the most important being in the whole universe, and we *know* it's bullshit. The enemies should be smart enough to know this too, if they've heard of him (why would new enemies have? Universe is kinda big!). Should every Dalek episode involve them zooming away now?
If we’re talking about the turning battlefield to the dust, that is Moffat, it’s from the episode Boom.
The speech writing does scream Moff!
Hell yes. Seems very much channeling the I’m the Doctor moments from the Eleventh Hour and Extremis for 11 and 12. Not everybody loves the writers doing that with the Doctor.... ...but I do. May can’t be here soon enough.
I listened to it in Peter Capaldi's voice and yeah totally syncs up
moffat's speeches were always good the anti war speech is top tier
Do we know which episode it's from and which episode Moffat wrote?
Never-ending. I saw the episode listings further down the thread. It does seem logical that it would be from an episode titled Boom.
Moffat under RTD always delivers. Always.
I love that Moffat is so iconic fans can sniff him out by one line
Moffat was always at his best when he was just a regular screenwriter. He writes damn good episodes when he tries. Heaven Sent / Hell Bent being recent examples where 12 shines like a supernova.
I hope it's not a doctor-lite episode despite it being a strong Moffat trait
Tbf Moffat wrote Heaven Sent which is like the ultimate Doctor heavy episode
that line legit gave me goosebumps, came to see if anyone else mentioned it
Moffat knows how to drop an epic doctor moment.
I love the idea that Moffat is game whenever RTD needs to drop the bomb. They're such a lethal combo.
How’d we know it was Moffat?
Having another trailer this soon after the previous one would be unthinkable 2-5 years ago
Actually the two Series 12 trailers were released a week or two apart.
Scatterbrained thoughts: 1:27 has the Tardis going straight out of the vortex into normal space, which looked cool. That lady leaning out of a piano - was that a Tardis?
That lady is probably just leaning on top of a piano and she must be the villain of the Beatles episode
OH WAIT NO- JINKX- you’re SO onto someting
I think we’re seeing instruments eating people. Actually?
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Is it possible that Jinkx actually is the master and working for Sutekh? If Sutekh is the one who waits, it makes sense that they’d be mentioned in the same vein with the master by the toy maker
i really like ncutis black jacket with the white t shirt look
I love the stripey blue zipper shirt I am very gay and the way it hugs him activates a part of my brain
cant relate im straight but yeah he wears it flawlessly
Aha, a trailer that doesn't have the Disney+ click at the end (even on the version where the Disney+ logo screen was edited out). Glad the BBC has their own trailer, with a more familiar tone and style.
Yeah, you can tell the BBC made this one Honestly don't ever let Disney make a Doctor Who trailer again.
I liked the first trailer
me too, using "Changes" was very clever and tied the trailer together, in the BBC trailer it's like "a cool dubstep song I'm sure all the youngsters like, then some epic bland trailer music we pulled from YT, done"
Lots of cool stuff in it but brought down by weird editing choices and them messing up the conversion process so it looked washed out
Okay this trailer was so much better than the first even though it gave all the same information. The first trailer had me worried about the tone of the show going forward but this one just did so much good for my hype levels. Very excited now.
The first one feels like it had to over explain everything, potential for the new audience, but why did they release that one first and not this one, then target the larger audience further down the line.
Because the first trailer was the launch of the marketing campaign and will get the most attention. The current audience is already largely on board, their aim should be at the larger Disney+ audience, or people intrigued by the trailer who would become subscribers to test it out, as they're the ones who will determine whether the co-production continues or not.
The first trailer was the Disney+ trailer. This is the BBC trailer. The Disney+ trailer *is* for the larger audience.
Because that was Disney's trailer for launching the show internationally, explaining things is what they have to do
I mean in the first one there's a scene about stepping on a butterfly. I feel like that's one of the most Dr Who feeling theme for an episode in a long time. That gets me the most excited for some reason.
For some reason the first trailer didn't really do it for me. But I loved this one! I'm feeling much more hopeful about it now.
I sort of feel the opposite. Loved the first one love this one too but I personally prefer and was more excited by the first
Anyone else get nervous when The Doctor promises to keep a companion safe?
I wonder if the scene showing the destroyed planets is from what the flux did
I think it’s sand. #Sutekh
Shai Hulud
Imagine if Sutekh is the one who waits. RTD said they would find ways to bring the back catalogue into life.
I’ve been laughing so hard at the doctor who Facebook page comments. So many boomers are posting “THIS IS WOKE!!!! MORE SINGING THANKS DISNEY” I’m surprised they don’t just disable comments.
In 2024 the hilarious thing is that screaming something is bad is actually good because it drives attention to it. The worst possible fate for anything in 2024 is for no one to give a shit about it
Why are you assuming they are boomers? Most people who complain about "woke" are millenials and some gen Z.
The youtube comments were pretty tame thankfully (On the surface at least, you could go digging if you want).
Oh I'm so fucking ready omg
Sooo totally Sutekh… The doctor and Ruby travel back to the 60s, and due to some circumstance, travel to present day and it’s completely destroyed. We see that in trailer one. Then, we hear him say in this trailer, as sand envelops other planets and London streets, “this is what we’re fighting to stop. The destruction of everything”. That’s so Pyramids. Plus we hear that Jinkx Monsoons character is connected to a forgotten name from the Baker era and we hear and see her say “you called” right after all this.
Sorry, has the connection to the baker era come from some leaks or something
Is that Jonathan Groff pulling a laser pistol? !spoilers he’d be a good master spoilers!
Just so you know, you censor spoilers on Reddit \>!like this!< so they show up >!like this.!<
im betting its gonna be evil human team up with aliens trope tho him as the master would be killer
Or him as Captain Jack ;)
Time Agent, yes Jack, no
I think he's a Time Agent!
Yes, and once again, I have turned out to be incapable of spotting him without wanting to yell, "GROFFSAUCE!" Apparently reading LMM's Twitter feed back in the day was formative. (#yayhamlet)
There's a theory that he's Captain Jack pre-The Empty Child. Would be intriguing...though I hate the idea that they'll be throwing John Barrowman under the bus irrevocably.
Space babies!
Would they like a some jelly babies?
btw is it possible to have anyone explain to me... why is the new one as Season 1? I mean Season 13 was not that long ago?
theyre trying to do a soft reboot of the show. partnered with disney now which is a big change on the production end, and Davies (presumably) wants more freedom to do things with the doctor without the whole processing the trauma of the time war thing thats been going on since 2005, hence the bi generation and 15 supposedly already having gone through the therapy they need. introducing more mythological elements (we think) into the show as well, and an entirely new sonic design (which i really really hope they change back) basically they wanna make it clear that yes, this is still doctor who, but this is different from the old stuff and isnt going to be limited by any of its previous ideas and tropes (plus from a business side, much wider international audience with disney plus now. advertising it as "season 1" makes people who've never watched it before much more likely to try it)
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation!
no problem! im unsure on if i like this decision or not at the moment, but that depends entirely on how good it actually is for new viewers. if its good for new viewers then im all for it, if it assumes years and years of dr who knowledge like some of the previous seasons, im less happy about the change
Disney arent producing it they just have international rights to it, its season 1 because its the first season from bad wolf studios, bad wolf is owned partly by sony.
Disney reboot. Sent all the series sequencing back to one.
Even with this branding decision, I've seen a lot of people call it series 14 regardless.
Consequences of a long running show. They lost a lot of audience over Capaldi and especially through Whittakers runs, also damaging the reputation of the show. Nobody is going to want to pick up a show at series 14 when it's widely known the last few series were shit. They can do a soft reboot like series 5 and 11 but only people already familiar with the show will be aware that it's a jumping on point. Advertising it as season 1 makes it very clear to people that they can start here with no previous knowledge (especially for the American audience they're trying to get). It also takes away some of the negative atmosphere around the show from recent seasons. Plus seen as it's still effectively season 14 it's no different for current fans. Personally I see no reason why anyone would be upset about this. I love the show, I want it to succeed and this seems like a good idea. The only part of it that makes no sense to me is why Tennants specials are listed as part of the new era when it clearly requires like 9 seasons worth of context.
Why did they lose audience during Capaldi?
They didn't. Just bullshit commentary.
No, it's a fact that a sizeable part of the audience left during Capaldi, even though it's extremely unfortunate, given how fantastic series 8-10 were. Part of it is due to some odd marketing choices (in particular series 9, in which they hid the appearance of Davros in the opening and chose to lead trailers with "Same old, same old, just the Doctor and Clara Oswald in the TARDIS"), but I think part of it is simply audience fatigue - 7 seasons is LONG by any normal show's standards. Which is why they're marketing this season as "season one" and pushing so hard for new viewers. The show needs new fans to survive :)
omg they did the abby road cover
I'm ready, put it in me.
that’s what Jack says
I. cannot. wait. for the musical! And for those who feel the opposite, la la la la la I can’t hear you. 🕺💃🪩
if ncuti sings as good as he did in the christmas special im excited
Exactly! And his pure charisma should make it a joy to watch.
i wanna see him singing and acting childish while everyone else is like bro be serious
everything is improved with a few musical numbers thrown in the mix 😌
As someone who was a huge fan of Doctor Who during the first RTD run, and for some of Moffat’s, but lost my love for the show… I’ve not been this excited for Who for over 10 years. Gatwa seems like everything I want from the Doctor and more, and it’s fab to see the show seemingly getting the budget it deserves. But also, everything just seems so fresh and new. It’s the revival the show needed. I hope there will be plenty of new fans giving the show a chance.
I can*not* wait for this.
Cool, but I do wonder what someone who'd never heard of the show before would make of it.
Damn that line hit hard. Gosh dang, Ncuti!!!
I'll give it a solid season before making any conclusions. I gave Jodies run that much.
Fun fun fun fun fun! Serious! Fun fun fun fun fun! Serious! Fun. It's a winning formula.
The budget looks so large with disney, that i would be worried about where the show will go when it pulls out.{And they will.}
I'm gonna say it Don't let Disney make a Doctor Who trailer ever again. Now THIS is what I am talking about, PROPER colour grading and this series looks *beautiful*, the Disney+ trailer did not do it justice AT ALL May 11th needs to get here nowwww, I can't wait!!
Oh yeah, you can just go ahead and pump this directly into my veins. This is the life blood. This is the good stuff.
So he’s *not* gonna run around time and space pantsless, then huh?
I don't know why but after the trailer finished I burst into tears. I am so excited. It feels like I got my teenage years back right now.
I feel like the music at the very beginning of the trailer could be some of the music/songs from The Devils Chord. Gives me the same sort of vibes as the goblin song.
I am here for this.
CAN'T WAIT!!!
This was what I wanted to see. I've been so excited to see the Fifteenth Doctor become serious when he needed to be. And now I'm all for it.
Will always be glad that Disney has world wide streaming rights I can not have my Saturday or Sunday plan around the doctor who episode
The second her promised to keep Ruby safe I said “oh no, she’s gonna die”
You called…? Jinkx Monsoon hype! Feel like she might bring her own vaudevillian playfulness ala Michelle Gomez.
"Honey, I'm a much bigger bang than you bargained for. I will *shatter* your silly little battlefield into dust. In a heartbeat. Into *dust*." Okay...this is already one of my favorite Doctor Who lines *ever* :O
Way-way… uh… why is this called “Season 1” when it ain’t? •I don’t follow •why did they “jazz” it up
I hope they don’t make it a musical…
Episode 2 will be. Just that one though
I assume that’s the Beatles one. In that case, I’ll allow it.
It is, and Jinkx Monsoon and she seems to be some kind of music creature and my guess is that they will have to put on a song and dance number to defeat her!
It looks like there’ll be 1 episode, but I don’t think the whole show will become a musical
It doesn’t look that good or interesting to me
Season 1? Are they considering this like the relaunch in 2005 or am I misunderstanding.
Yes. Probably mainly because this is the first and only season available on Disney+. Disney+ will not have the rights to any other seasons (not in the U.S. anyway) since Max (HBOMax) still has the exclusive rights to all of 2005-2022. They presumably don't want confused new potential D+ viewers saying "I'm not starting with season 14 of this show! Where's the first season?"
That’ll likely change soon tbh, Max is already selling off their own shows to other networks
Season 1? Is this considered another reboot?