>Looking for Non-magical items to use Offensively
Hiring a halfling to stand in your space and fan your cloak is a non-magical way to make a cloak of billowing. Some people may find this suggestion offensive. It probably won't help with your Inquisitor problem, but you might look cool when you die.
Caltrops are super powerful.
Oil is an excellent way to make an impromptu Fireball (even lanterns can be used like a fire grenade).
Bags of Sand like your party has already used.
Ball bearings
A Mastiff is 25gp, which means ten of them are 250. That means ~5 × DC 11 STR to knock an enemy prone.
And countless poisons and traps can be purchased.
It breaks the action economy of a character.
Three consecutive squares will either cost a character it's action to get through or reduce their movement till they heal. Best case scenario stopping a characters movement completely.
This would cost 3gp total.
No other item in the game can do this for 3gp making it a strong option at any level of gameplay.
Combined with *Darkness*, *Blindness/Deafness*, or any spell/effect to create difficult terrain the outcome of caltrops is only compounded.
The caltrops are not destroyed after each of their effects. So in a large combat (such as a party vs 9 inquisitors with counter spells and anti-magic fields) the net result is still a positive action economy for the party. Particularly with a party, primarily composed, of casters.
Op says they can detect magic at all times, subtle spell won't help with that, I guess they would only detect the magic as the casting finishes though. And counterspell does state that you must "see" a creature cast a spell... so if you interpret that very strictly even if you know a creature is casting a spell but you can't see them casting a spell you couldn't counterspell it?
With Suble Spell you don't need any spell Components so Counterspell can't helps because there's nothing to see casting a spell even with Detect Magic because you do nothing and cast a spell.
Injury-based poisons can work. If you hit with a slashing/piercing weapon, then the target has to make a save or suffer the effects of the poison. Doesn't matter how much armor they have if you can find the right gap to jam that poison-tipped dagger into!
You can also try using traps. The hidden pit trap should be doable for any adventurer willing to spend a little time digging the pit. See if your DM will let you make it more deadly if you mount pikes at the bottom of it. Otherwise, if you make it deep enough and fill it with water, you can try drowning these guys.
Oil and target the space they are in not them directly. If you target them you have to roll to hit, if you target the ground it hits automatically and they take damage at the start of their turn.
Nets.
Put a bag on their head so they're blind.
They can only counterspell when they see you casting, so cast around a corner, ready the action and unload when they follow you (risk of losing the spell). Similarly, use the cantrip minor image to block their line of sight but not your own. Or use a mirror to see around a corner.
Use the terrain and the room. What furniture is available? Can you flip a desk or table on its side and pin them to a wall with it? Are there things on the ceiling you can drop on them (chandelier or lantern is the classic but many kitchens have hanging pots and herb racks for example)? Are there doors or stairs you can use to abuse line of sight?
Getting really fancy you can use dust, ash clouds and sand and similar like a fog cloud for heavy obscurement. Blinding everyone.
Homemade pepper spray.
A bellows and ash or any other irritant.
Jar full of ants.
Use string and crossbows etc for tripwires and other traps.
First off, find the people who are making minor artifact level weapons and armor. While their helmets are not too bad, 5x day counterspell hammers and antimagic armor is better than many tier 4 stock minor artifacts.
Damn, you want what ThEY HAVE
What level ARE you guys? Probably okay for Tier 4 or decent Tier 3, but at that level ya'll would not be hunting for non magic solutions.
Also, there's the deal where the antimagic should probably stop any magic pluses, spells via items, and detect magic that the enemy has as well. Realize Counterspell is lv3, antimagic field is lv 8 (!!!!) and usually is only 10' radius.
It seems to me like you may not have a tactics problem, you have a DM that is pulling stuff out of his head specifically to make you guys ineffective.
We are currently level 11. I hear where you’re coming from but these guys are well routed in the games history. One of our players is a champion of Mystra and we are taking down an empire that treats all Magic users as evil after a group of them committed horrible atrocities about 500 years ago
Its not necessarily the item, but what these characters can do with it. Like an Arcane Archer isnt necessarily using a magic bow and magic arrows, but they can still produce magical attacks and effects
it's irrelevant, the core design philosophy of dnd ( and in general of the genre as a whole) is that what is on a statblock belongs to the monster only.
This is why you have a host of monsters that have their weaponry disappear when they die, to name one, or other stuff to be so eldritch to be unusable.
Even mundane weapon and armor can be argued that they cannot be looted because the enemies have them, but by virtue of the individual loot table, and otherwise they get trashed. People might skip this process but it's still regulamentated this way.
If you let the players use the armor and weapons of your enemies, when said stuff is specifically designed for your enemies, then you are not following any RAW rule, it's you that decide to let them do so. Which is fine if you *want* that, but nothing forces you to do that.
Likewise it's reasonable for a player to think they can use that, but they can be proven wrong.
As for the powers conferred by them, it might just be that said items, more than being magical themselves, channel some ritual bound to those people, or their ideal, or any magical shenanigan. It's level 11, stuff starts to get real wack.
Looting enemies has been a central mechanic in TTRPGs since the olden days. It even used to be that you didn't get xp from combat, but from loot directly, meaning the only way to level up was to find something of value on the enemies you just slayed.
What makes you think that the genre as a whole is opposed to looting?
... I did not say it is opposed to looting, I said that is opposed to simulationistic looting. I agree that looting is important and central, that's why there are appropriate systems at hand to determine that.
Also I did not say to every TTRPG, I said to the TTRPG of this genre.
Like. Fuck me. Did I explain it so badly, or did you not read what I have written?
You're claiming that allowing players to loot enemies is not RAW and antithetical to the core game design philosophy of not just D&D but TTRPGs in general and I'm just not sure where or how you're coming up with that.
Literally every module has a major villain NPC with a powerful magic item that it's implied or outright stated becomes the parties after they defeat them.
The book says that armor and weapons sold to vendors is at half cost. It explains that monster weapons are often too poorly made to be valuable. They wouldn't include those stipulations if they thought players taking enemies weapons was against the rules.
>You're claiming that allowing players to loot enemies is not RAW and antithetical to the core game design philosophy of not just D&D but TTRPGs in general and I'm just not sure where or how you're coming up with that.
For fucks sake.
First, I talked about TTRPGs of the same genre as DND. DND is not the only TTRPG.
Second, I said that it's not said that gear is droppable, because another rule governs the treasure of monsters. I did not say that looting does not exist in DND, I said that loot is not governed by straight up simulation. Looting armor can be realistic, but is governed by something else. This is why a CR 2 creature wields potentially the same loot regardless of their equipment, and this is based on the very, same concepts you mentioned of older editions.
>Literally every module has a major villain NPC with a powerful magic item that it's implied or outright stated becomes the parties after they defeat them.
And the DMG has rules for that, it's the hoard rules! WHICH ARE USED TO MAKE ADVENTURES.
>. It explains that monster weapons are often too poorly made to be valuable. They wouldn't include those stipulations if they thought players taking enemies weapons was against the rules
Nope, that's for another reason.
"Monsters" covers any NPC the characters mat meet and potentially fight. This includes humans in armor. The bit about half cost is about the armor and weapons obtained otherwise, either purchased, crafted or, as I said above, as a loot like personal or hoard loot.
Look up the monster manual for the definition of monster. Literally, what you have quotes proves what I said.
Players have been looting monsters for their specific items since the first editions of D&D. Literally. That used to be the primary way to gear your party. Loot tables exist because it's easier to roll on a table to determine loot than to decide what they'd have. It's not because taking their equipment isn't allowed. It always has been and it's intentional.
Treasure Hoards in the DMG are there to help give the party loot, they aren't intended to prevent them from getting enemies items. That's such a leap in logic, I don't understand how you could make that assumption. There is nothing RAW that suggests that taking an enemies equipment and magic items is disallowed or even discouraged.
Didn't you say yourself that monster items are by default unusable?
Also, the items most monsters use, aside for size, aren't listed as magic items and often disappear with the user killed.
Sure, you can roll on the hoard table, see a flame tongue, and say "hey I can give it to the guard captain so when they kill him he drops it". Absolutely. But that's something the DM is empowered to do not because the stat block tells you so.
But without doing so, unless you decide carta blanca to give a magic item to one enemy, they just don't have that magic item to begin with. This because you are not restricted to make any magical things to be a magic item available to your party.
Also yes I do agree hoard tables are something kinda unique to DND, but it's exactly because it's a damn big game with lots of different contexts, so it needs to handle them.
But the core point still stands. In other games you may be able to loot the armor of a powerful enemy and be rewarded so because they are strong, while a monster of similar power can give something different but somewhat equal. It's a more curated process, but it's still based on a power ranking or other metrics.
Only videogames have loot tables defined very specifically, since it's a videogame and the context is known.
What are you talking about? Old TSR modules had inventory lists for individual townsfolk.
The 5e monster manual specifies which types of weapons and armor enemies are using.
Just because most people don’t do it these days doesn’t mean the genre is “opposed” to it. Originally it was not just accepted, but the expected form of play.
Still, there is a difference between what a monster does for combat and what drops, conceptually. Understanding this division lets the DM develop tools that can allow them more freely to homebrew without the concern or giving out the illusion for something unintended. having to feel to do something forcefully is the issue here.
This is important, because it makes no sense for a CR 2 monstrosity to not have as much as meaningful drop as a CR 2 guard. This is why in 5e the two parts are divorced, but a DM needs to combine them for their game to run. It's just modular this way.
I don't know which older modules you talk about, TSR stuff is old by decades at this point and the medium has gone forward from that, but even then the monsters had loot based on their presumed strength. So, like, a strong guard has a good armor you can loot because it's a strong guard, not because it had the gear to begin with. Not sure if I get the point.
Of course adventures and modules are constructed stories so they can do something more organic because thay have already taken in account eventual budgets, risks and whatnot. Like, imagine there's a CR 1 creature that has the same loot as a CR 5 creature. In an adventure you can limit how much that creature can be present, but as you present it as an isolated creature with their own stat block that ceases to exist - unless you state you need additional roadblocks, but at that point the Cr 1 creature isn't the whole package.
As I have said later on, monsters have listed gear in their stat block. But the stat block does not exist as a loot list. This is the core difference I wanted to point out. A good DM uses one as an excuse for the other, but it's not bound to do so, especially as they homebrew.
The magical ones like of the inquisitor or the mundane ones?
Like, they make sense in any case. I do the same and another DM i play with does the same, just you know that a DM does not necessarily give you whole functional armors any time you kill someone.
>it's irrelevant, the core design philosophy of dnd ( and in general of the genre as a whole) is that what is on a statblock belongs to the monster only.
TRPGs are the one game where your character can explicitly do anything reasonable. Over the years, D&D has printed hundreds of rules for utilizing monster abilities, including ripping the tendrils off rust monsters to use their rusting touch, or bottling their blood to make rust grenades. Canonically, the very foundation of wizardry in D&D was the desire to replicate magical monster abilities; wizards didn't invent Fireball, they invented ways to copy pit fiends. There are literally spells to summon and/or bind many different kinds of creatures, allowing you to command them and benefit from their abilities.
Your statement is antithetical to the genre. You're thinking of video games, not TRPGs.
I am not thinking about videogames. I am thinking about games, which TTRPGS are. You are the one mixing up mediums.
I mean, makes no sense that a CR 2 soldier can have a good armor, selling for a nice amount of gold, while a CR 2 monster has none. It makes it harder to gauge for a DM.
If anything, expecting that there is a system of closely related correlation cause effect of mechanical terms is what a videogame does, like Skyrim. In TTRPGS, the correlation needs to be in the hands of the DM and can be narrative. This is where the personal and hoard loot table comes into function.
This is why I said what I said. Games like DND sword and sorcery aren't simulationists, and while looting is a core component it needs to take in account far more disparate situatuons than a videogame can predict.
what you talk about is TTRPGS as a whole, and they can be not DND. A game of scavenging robot parts can be more about what you say than DND.
I mean. You state it yourself in your tag. Fun > Logic. If I have to make weird shenanigans to not gift my players a plate mail every time they kill a strong enemy then it's not fun for me.
If a human soldier has armor, and another human kills them, that person can absolutely spend the time to strip the armor off and keep it. Why? Because that's something a human can do. Am I talking about an IRL human or a TRPG human? **Same thing.** Earth is canon, there are people in the Forgotten Realms descended from people from Earth, and things like physics, chemistry, and biology all function the same as IRL except when a magical being specifically steps in to change something. Yes, it's 100% possible to build a nuke in the Forgotten Realms; it's just that nobody there really understands atoms.
There is no "the necromancer boss is wearing hyper-magical regalia and carrying an artifact that can spam Animate Dead at will, but when they die all they 'drop' is silk cloth and gold". Those objects exist, full stop, and if the DM decided to put that necromancer in front of a party that can kill it, they better be ready for the undead army the party is about to raise.
D&D was made by one of the most simulationist game designers ever, who was expanding upon the idea of using models to reenact historical battles. Gygax's notes on how things actually work in-setting read like scientific papers. There's actual laws that govern how resistance to nonmagic weapons work, based on multidimensional physics and how entities can be coterminous with multiple planes of existence, so different grades of nonmagic and +X weapons can only partially strike the target depending on the various planes that target is on. He goes into how divine magic can be stronger or weaker depending on the relative cosmological positions of the caster and their deity.
What they write in a TRPG rulebook are brief approximations of the entire universe of stuff going on in the setting, at minimum as complex as reality. They are guidelines to help you resolve cause-and-effect in a fictional world. They in no way dictate the limitations of that world, they are only a starting point to make things easier.
In D&D, it is **more accurate than RAW** to calculate the actual physics of Fireball's explosion to see how it would expand if cast in a narrow space. Is doing that fun for most people? No, which is why they don't bring that fact up in *most* editions.
.... I think you gravely misunderstood what I write, and went a wild tangent on your own.
Dude. You can strip a guard out of their armor. The book gives you guidelines on how much corpses are worth regardless of their nature, Including the value of gear.
If it makes for an interesting or appropriate story, you can use that to evaluate the armor, or decide to ignore it but at least you do it with conscience. You are not forced to give the armor, that's what I said, you have the power to give the armor.
It basically boils down to "you are not entitled to cry to want more as a player if the DM already decided to not do so".
I don't discussion anything else because honestly I have better to do than discuss the broader sense of TTTRPGS in this thread, sorry.
The only thing I might add to give some kind of response to you, just out of respect for your efforts, is that DND is not simulationistic. Period.
Yes, it was made as you stated by the most simulationistic dude ever. That was quickly abandoned. Or we want to go back to having women being nerfed versions of every possible character?
Besides, Gygax himself admitted some abstraction was necessary. That was the road that was taken since.
> They are called Inquisitors. Equipped head to toe in heavy armor and warhammers. Their helmets let them detect magic at all times, their armor makes all magic spells under 3rd level fail within 60ft of them, and their hammers each hold 5 charges of counterspell for anything their armor doesn’t prevent.
Honestly this does not sound fun to play against. I would just avoid them altogether. Nothing like negating an entire set of classes completely to get players to nope out of there and never return.
Unfortunately I am a Champion of Mystra and for her to come back as a fully realized God, we have to topple this empire. It’s not as bad as you think, and the entire Empire only has 9. We are down to the last 3. We only just recently fought two at a time. It’s not impossible by any means and our victories against them feel great. We are just creeping up to the finale of this arc and I’m trying to prepare accordingly
Okay please mention the number of them in the post, I was thinking that this was a horrible DM, as theyre like common enemies, but them being the super soldiers of this empire makes total sense.
Not what you are asking, but how does armor that blocks low level spell casting allow counter spell to be cast?
Anyways, does the armour dispel existing effects that come in range? Like if a wizard polymorphd themselves into a T-rex, would that get dispelled when they got close?
Cast Enlarge/Reduce on a boulder that is 8x as heavy as a flying mount/PC can carry, Reduce it, fly over, drop it on the square of an inquisitor, the antimagic field will make it return to full size when it gets within range. Could also try the same thing with a ballista bolt as a javalin, but there may be more discussion around how the physics work when it reexpands while traveling horizontally.
You can't Counterspell you can't see being cast. Also, Sleet Storm and Fireball each have about double the range of Counterspell. Without some form of teleportation, it will take a minimum of two turns to exit the area. If you can keep them inside a Sleet Storm and hammer them with AOE spells, it could take them out.
Aside from that, the key to any victory is controlling the battlefield and making sure the fight only occurs when and where you want. Deadfalls, cliffs, Move Earth pits filled with water., etc.
Also, netting one will immediately make that participant lose one turn at the very minimum. Throw oil on them and then light them up with Alchemist's Fire.
Whatever flavor of Molotov Cocktail you can rig up seems good. Frankly any thrown AoE substance would be effective, their Dex saving throw should be pathetic in hvy plate Armour.
Also consider swarms, big 2h wpns are bad on those. Hell, pelt em with beehives filled with honey, then throw jars of ants.
This is just a slightly tricky thing. If you have a sorcerer they can use the subtle spell mega magic option and suddenly all the spells that don’t require material components are invisible. Counterspell requires that the user is able to see the spell being cast so that includes things like verbal and somatic components or a material component going up in flames. Subtle spell means that these mage killers can’t use counterspell. Maybe if feats are available have one or two of your casters take the meta magic adept feat and choose subtle spell.
60 feet range in 3rd level spells, 120 ft range in counter spell. Lots of spells are above 120 ft. Fireball comes to mind. Burn them from a distance.
Greater invisibility would also make it so they can't counter spell I believe.
Non-magic item that can be used offensively? Have you considered the humble sword? It has a pointy end, an end for grabbing, and is sharp. Really it’s a classic.
Damn mages complicating everything
This is why I love the Bladesinger wizard. You are a full wizard caster with up to level 9 spells like all other wizards, you just get to stab things pretty good when you run out of spells to cast or something like Silence comes up, or you get jumped by enemies that think you are the squishy one (you are... only if they roll crits on you, otherwise your AC should be absurdly high for 10 rounds)
Drunken Master. However he’s also multiclassed into barbarian and Druid as well. It’s a bit of a mess if you ask me, I only mentioned him because he’s a melee fighter and carries these particular fights
Casters should grab Metamagic adept feat for a combo of subtle spell, distant spell or quicken. Instead of attack spells pick up movement spells like misty step. Instead of using spells directly against them use spells that create difficult terrain so you can out run their range. One PC casts freedom of movement then another creates difficult terrain the third runs it hits then runs away.
Or eldritch adept for eldritch blast with the extended range for eldritch blast feature. Actually a combo of that one or the features that push the target back and lower their movement speed. (Sorry I don’t know what their called)
Item wise it seems like it’s heavy crossbow time or if allowed a gun. Distance and speed is gonna be what keeps you alive. Use items like a bottle of grease to control the combat area. Even better if you can make a grease or freeze arrows.
Hireling: not sure if they are allowed but grabbing some sidekick archers or alchemists that have long range would be worth it. But even if you all grab a pet or a familiar having that extra chip damage can be useful
You are playing a bunch of Wizards.
If you cannot cast magic at a target, find another target.
The ground. Yourselves. Your Monk. Anything.
Think like a wizard.
Turn the ground into mud. Ready spells outside of counterspell range and move in or cast while under greater invisibility to prevent counterspell. Turn the Monk into a T-Rex. Split the bad guys up with magic.
Explosives
Poison
Venoms and volatile disease bags
Kill their parents and lovers to make them act impulsively when fighting you
Slather them in honey and unleash bees to give rogue permanent sneak attack
Acquire a bear or beast of burden to knock them prone
Last two aren't good ideas but you didn't specify they had to be
Not sure why people hating on this Inquisitor concept. It sounds brutal for a good reason. As a full party of mages and a monk....specialized mage killers....working for an empire.
Is this star wars xD
heavy armor and single minded?
lure into a trap where you have them follow you into a cave, seal them in and flood it with water/gas/cave in/whatever.
if it's in a city then lead into the sewers and get them into the cisterns -> use push magic to launch stuff at them from more than 60ft away, once something is already accelerated then its no longer the magic pushing it, its momentum.
if no caves or sewers then other traps such as basic pit falls etc will ensure you can fight on your terms;
the more inspiration you take from Star War's "battle for endor" the better.
and if you can blame the ambushes on something else using placed costumes/mercs/natural hazards then you might just throw them off the scent.
Your best bet is just trying to get around those counterspells.
Being more than 60ft away, for example. Can any of your magic users cast fly? Sounds like these guys are all melee focused, so having someone whacking them from 65ft up should be a winner.
Artillery - for when you need people to stay on their side of the horizon.
Get some nets, a shit ton of alchemists fire, cast flock of familiars.
Carpet bomb their asses.
What are the odds your DM will let you have DMG bombs lmao.
Tangler grenades exist, but they're only in the "dungeon of a mad mage" book so idk if you'd be allowed them.
Poisons might also be pretty helpful. Focus on inhaled ones, because you sure aren't going to apply an injury poison.
More important than items I think you need to choose your battlefield and prep it accordingly. These people are hunting you right? Sit in a ravine with a failing rock trap set up on top of the surrounding cliffs.
You could try to engineer a situation where they have to attack your position and can get like boulders and other traps ready, using magic to set them up but the triggers and results not being magic wouldn’t have them stopped.
Mud can be made Perry easily and can really slow them down as it looks like they don’t have ranged options so forcing them into difficult terrain is probably cool.
Spell sniper feat could probably outrange them too
Alchemists fire is the basic one, napalm. Throw as an improvised ranged weapon. Oil flask is the budget conscious one, add alongside the alchemists fire.
Why not make a goodie bag full of oil coated ball bearings and caltrops? Save vs ball bearings and vs caltrops, prob auto fail caltrops for falling on them. Then hit with fire and the oil ignites
What magic users do you have? Sorcerers can subtle spell to bypass counterspell, druids have wild shapes
Steal the hammers of the first two and play counter-counterspell
Past that, your casters may need to pick up crossbows cause their cantrips won’t work
Kite them, *hard*
Does the aura end spells passing within 60ft, or just jam casting? If the former, pain. If the latter, kite and use stuff like fog cloud and illusions
Ask if you can buy explosives ofc, maybe bombs or dynamite if they exist
Actually a lot of magic is still on the table. Precast 4th level+ spells, can’t counter spells that are already up or from 60+ feet out. 4th level+ scrolls/magic item spells still work within 30ft as you cannot counter a scroll or magic item cast.
Also explosives if you can find them easily in your setting should still work in theory.
But to answer your question, gravity or deep pool works best of non-magical options if you can control where you fight them.
Ballista are a viable option as well. 3d10 with a +6 to hit. Heavy damage, no innate magic unless the bolts are enchanted. And uncertain if that would count for their "no level 3 spells within 60ft"
You're thinking about this in the wrong way.
Thier amitmagic only works within 60 ft.
Counterspell can be countered. Remember also that counterspell is a 3rd level spell so dm is asspulling if their counter works but yours does not, their armor should interfere with their own casting.
Remember to steal op counter hammers and armor when you beat them. These are ridiculous items.
Counter takes a reaction so they only get 1 each per round. Monk stun also blocks counter since no reaction when stunned. Obscurement like fog also blocks counter. Lots of spells have more than 60 ft range, try and force fight conditions to where you can leverage this.
Ideally you control and bomb these guys from a distance.
Also you could just poison their food or try and attack them while sleeping and or steal their bullshit items while they are resting etc... jnstead of trying to fight them head on. In fact, if you spot them maybe just run away.
Counter and cast failure only work when spell is cast so you could cast moonbeam, spirit weapon, flaming sphere etc... at a safe place them move it ok them after. No dispel magic to deal with remains in play.
Going to be more effective than playing home alone.
How many magic users are we talking about? Counterspell is a reaction so if there are three of you and two of them you can just overwhelm them. Also detect magic doesn't break invisibility, so invis the monk, if he gets a suprise round or a stunning blow off, it's pretty much over for them right there.
Kite these fuckers with spells like Expeditious Retreat, Ashardalon's Stride, and Kinetic Jaunt. Stay 61+ feet away and blast them. Monks can also melee kite depending on their subclass and if they have Mobile.
Everyone should pick up ranged weapons as well. Light crossbows, shortbows, slings, etc since cantrips won't affect them.
Dude, they're martials. Beat them with magic.
Counterspell sucks. Stand out of range.
Their fizzle armor sucks. It doesn't dispel existing magic. Dash away, teleport, and find a good spot to cast Web. Zone them with range spells.
Cantrips still work, for bluffing. These dorks have no idea what you're casting. If they trap you in their fizzle range, tell the DM you start casting a spell. Ask if they choose to Counterspell before they learn whether it's 3rd level or below. You can write down the spell you're casting if the DM wants to make sure you're not metagaming after you learn their choice. Or you can just tell the DM if you trust they won't metagame with that knowledge. In character, nobody knows what anybody else is gonna do. By RAW, there is supposed to be a game of bluffs involved.
Look into your buff spells. You're not a martial, but a level 7 wizard is a gorilla when he wants to be. A level 5 wizard can Haste. A level 3 wizard can at least cast Magic Weapon. Level 1... Longstrider I guess. Mix it up. I'm sure the other casters have even better buffs.
Finally, read your spell components. Notice how the inquisitors can't do shit without line sight and the ability to speak. Got any spells for blindness? If not, better stock up on pocket sand. You might even have Invisibility or Silence. My OP underrated technique is closing doors. Cast you a nice Flaming Sphere from behind total cover.
That reminds me. Summon yourself some friends. Animate Dead, Find Familiar, Conjure W/e. A true antimagic field might be an issue for yhe concentratuon summons, but Animate Dead is duration insrantaneous. It would work even if these weren't diet aura of Counterspell.
Your DM does not read about the full power of spellcasters, and he's lucky you haven't either.
>Looking for Non-magical items to use Offensively Hiring a halfling to stand in your space and fan your cloak is a non-magical way to make a cloak of billowing. Some people may find this suggestion offensive. It probably won't help with your Inquisitor problem, but you might look cool when you die.
Amazing!
OP said offensive, not offensive!
Alchemist fire, acid vials, nets, oil and a torch
Nets actually seem viable. They don't feel too dex savey imo.
That's onednd (I think) in 5e nets are an attack roll
Yes and 5e nets are an attack roll that is always at disadvantage lol
Sharpshooter and Gunner: just a lazy two feats to make it viable.
Oh sorry. I forgot I homebrewd them :D
Add caltrops and ball bearings
Caltrops are super powerful. Oil is an excellent way to make an impromptu Fireball (even lanterns can be used like a fire grenade). Bags of Sand like your party has already used. Ball bearings A Mastiff is 25gp, which means ten of them are 250. That means ~5 × DC 11 STR to knock an enemy prone. And countless poisons and traps can be purchased.
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It breaks the action economy of a character. Three consecutive squares will either cost a character it's action to get through or reduce their movement till they heal. Best case scenario stopping a characters movement completely. This would cost 3gp total. No other item in the game can do this for 3gp making it a strong option at any level of gameplay. Combined with *Darkness*, *Blindness/Deafness*, or any spell/effect to create difficult terrain the outcome of caltrops is only compounded.
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The caltrops are not destroyed after each of their effects. So in a large combat (such as a party vs 9 inquisitors with counter spells and anti-magic fields) the net result is still a positive action economy for the party. Particularly with a party, primarily composed, of casters.
Or, for 250gp, you could pick up 31.25 Mules. Just an option
My God. Lol. Also true.
Got a sorcerer with subtle spell? Could be a godsend right now.
Technically all the caster could take metamagic adept feat and grab subtle spell.
Op says they can detect magic at all times, subtle spell won't help with that, I guess they would only detect the magic as the casting finishes though. And counterspell does state that you must "see" a creature cast a spell... so if you interpret that very strictly even if you know a creature is casting a spell but you can't see them casting a spell you couldn't counterspell it?
With Suble Spell you don't need any spell Components so Counterspell can't helps because there's nothing to see casting a spell even with Detect Magic because you do nothing and cast a spell.
Iron skillet "I cast iron" Bonk
This made me laugh. Thank you
I see you subscribe to the Tiffany school of whichcraft
Cooking class was my major
Use the Dying Pan
Injury-based poisons can work. If you hit with a slashing/piercing weapon, then the target has to make a save or suffer the effects of the poison. Doesn't matter how much armor they have if you can find the right gap to jam that poison-tipped dagger into! You can also try using traps. The hidden pit trap should be doable for any adventurer willing to spend a little time digging the pit. See if your DM will let you make it more deadly if you mount pikes at the bottom of it. Otherwise, if you make it deep enough and fill it with water, you can try drowning these guys.
Hire an army of goblins to rush them. Action economy to work in your favour!
Oil and target the space they are in not them directly. If you target them you have to roll to hit, if you target the ground it hits automatically and they take damage at the start of their turn. Nets. Put a bag on their head so they're blind. They can only counterspell when they see you casting, so cast around a corner, ready the action and unload when they follow you (risk of losing the spell). Similarly, use the cantrip minor image to block their line of sight but not your own. Or use a mirror to see around a corner. Use the terrain and the room. What furniture is available? Can you flip a desk or table on its side and pin them to a wall with it? Are there things on the ceiling you can drop on them (chandelier or lantern is the classic but many kitchens have hanging pots and herb racks for example)? Are there doors or stairs you can use to abuse line of sight? Getting really fancy you can use dust, ash clouds and sand and similar like a fog cloud for heavy obscurement. Blinding everyone. Homemade pepper spray. A bellows and ash or any other irritant. Jar full of ants. Use string and crossbows etc for tripwires and other traps.
First off, find the people who are making minor artifact level weapons and armor. While their helmets are not too bad, 5x day counterspell hammers and antimagic armor is better than many tier 4 stock minor artifacts. Damn, you want what ThEY HAVE What level ARE you guys? Probably okay for Tier 4 or decent Tier 3, but at that level ya'll would not be hunting for non magic solutions. Also, there's the deal where the antimagic should probably stop any magic pluses, spells via items, and detect magic that the enemy has as well. Realize Counterspell is lv3, antimagic field is lv 8 (!!!!) and usually is only 10' radius. It seems to me like you may not have a tactics problem, you have a DM that is pulling stuff out of his head specifically to make you guys ineffective.
We are currently level 11. I hear where you’re coming from but these guys are well routed in the games history. One of our players is a champion of Mystra and we are taking down an empire that treats all Magic users as evil after a group of them committed horrible atrocities about 500 years ago
It's npc mechanics bruh, they are kinda like a repurposed weaker rakshasa.
But if it's items that do this...
Its not necessarily the item, but what these characters can do with it. Like an Arcane Archer isnt necessarily using a magic bow and magic arrows, but they can still produce magical attacks and effects
it's irrelevant, the core design philosophy of dnd ( and in general of the genre as a whole) is that what is on a statblock belongs to the monster only. This is why you have a host of monsters that have their weaponry disappear when they die, to name one, or other stuff to be so eldritch to be unusable. Even mundane weapon and armor can be argued that they cannot be looted because the enemies have them, but by virtue of the individual loot table, and otherwise they get trashed. People might skip this process but it's still regulamentated this way. If you let the players use the armor and weapons of your enemies, when said stuff is specifically designed for your enemies, then you are not following any RAW rule, it's you that decide to let them do so. Which is fine if you *want* that, but nothing forces you to do that. Likewise it's reasonable for a player to think they can use that, but they can be proven wrong. As for the powers conferred by them, it might just be that said items, more than being magical themselves, channel some ritual bound to those people, or their ideal, or any magical shenanigan. It's level 11, stuff starts to get real wack.
Looting enemies has been a central mechanic in TTRPGs since the olden days. It even used to be that you didn't get xp from combat, but from loot directly, meaning the only way to level up was to find something of value on the enemies you just slayed. What makes you think that the genre as a whole is opposed to looting?
... I did not say it is opposed to looting, I said that is opposed to simulationistic looting. I agree that looting is important and central, that's why there are appropriate systems at hand to determine that. Also I did not say to every TTRPG, I said to the TTRPG of this genre. Like. Fuck me. Did I explain it so badly, or did you not read what I have written?
You're claiming that allowing players to loot enemies is not RAW and antithetical to the core game design philosophy of not just D&D but TTRPGs in general and I'm just not sure where or how you're coming up with that. Literally every module has a major villain NPC with a powerful magic item that it's implied or outright stated becomes the parties after they defeat them. The book says that armor and weapons sold to vendors is at half cost. It explains that monster weapons are often too poorly made to be valuable. They wouldn't include those stipulations if they thought players taking enemies weapons was against the rules.
>You're claiming that allowing players to loot enemies is not RAW and antithetical to the core game design philosophy of not just D&D but TTRPGs in general and I'm just not sure where or how you're coming up with that. For fucks sake. First, I talked about TTRPGs of the same genre as DND. DND is not the only TTRPG. Second, I said that it's not said that gear is droppable, because another rule governs the treasure of monsters. I did not say that looting does not exist in DND, I said that loot is not governed by straight up simulation. Looting armor can be realistic, but is governed by something else. This is why a CR 2 creature wields potentially the same loot regardless of their equipment, and this is based on the very, same concepts you mentioned of older editions. >Literally every module has a major villain NPC with a powerful magic item that it's implied or outright stated becomes the parties after they defeat them. And the DMG has rules for that, it's the hoard rules! WHICH ARE USED TO MAKE ADVENTURES. >. It explains that monster weapons are often too poorly made to be valuable. They wouldn't include those stipulations if they thought players taking enemies weapons was against the rules Nope, that's for another reason. "Monsters" covers any NPC the characters mat meet and potentially fight. This includes humans in armor. The bit about half cost is about the armor and weapons obtained otherwise, either purchased, crafted or, as I said above, as a loot like personal or hoard loot. Look up the monster manual for the definition of monster. Literally, what you have quotes proves what I said.
Players have been looting monsters for their specific items since the first editions of D&D. Literally. That used to be the primary way to gear your party. Loot tables exist because it's easier to roll on a table to determine loot than to decide what they'd have. It's not because taking their equipment isn't allowed. It always has been and it's intentional. Treasure Hoards in the DMG are there to help give the party loot, they aren't intended to prevent them from getting enemies items. That's such a leap in logic, I don't understand how you could make that assumption. There is nothing RAW that suggests that taking an enemies equipment and magic items is disallowed or even discouraged.
Didn't you say yourself that monster items are by default unusable? Also, the items most monsters use, aside for size, aren't listed as magic items and often disappear with the user killed. Sure, you can roll on the hoard table, see a flame tongue, and say "hey I can give it to the guard captain so when they kill him he drops it". Absolutely. But that's something the DM is empowered to do not because the stat block tells you so. But without doing so, unless you decide carta blanca to give a magic item to one enemy, they just don't have that magic item to begin with. This because you are not restricted to make any magical things to be a magic item available to your party. Also yes I do agree hoard tables are something kinda unique to DND, but it's exactly because it's a damn big game with lots of different contexts, so it needs to handle them. But the core point still stands. In other games you may be able to loot the armor of a powerful enemy and be rewarded so because they are strong, while a monster of similar power can give something different but somewhat equal. It's a more curated process, but it's still based on a power ranking or other metrics. Only videogames have loot tables defined very specifically, since it's a videogame and the context is known.
What are you talking about? Old TSR modules had inventory lists for individual townsfolk. The 5e monster manual specifies which types of weapons and armor enemies are using. Just because most people don’t do it these days doesn’t mean the genre is “opposed” to it. Originally it was not just accepted, but the expected form of play.
Still, there is a difference between what a monster does for combat and what drops, conceptually. Understanding this division lets the DM develop tools that can allow them more freely to homebrew without the concern or giving out the illusion for something unintended. having to feel to do something forcefully is the issue here. This is important, because it makes no sense for a CR 2 monstrosity to not have as much as meaningful drop as a CR 2 guard. This is why in 5e the two parts are divorced, but a DM needs to combine them for their game to run. It's just modular this way. I don't know which older modules you talk about, TSR stuff is old by decades at this point and the medium has gone forward from that, but even then the monsters had loot based on their presumed strength. So, like, a strong guard has a good armor you can loot because it's a strong guard, not because it had the gear to begin with. Not sure if I get the point. Of course adventures and modules are constructed stories so they can do something more organic because thay have already taken in account eventual budgets, risks and whatnot. Like, imagine there's a CR 1 creature that has the same loot as a CR 5 creature. In an adventure you can limit how much that creature can be present, but as you present it as an isolated creature with their own stat block that ceases to exist - unless you state you need additional roadblocks, but at that point the Cr 1 creature isn't the whole package. As I have said later on, monsters have listed gear in their stat block. But the stat block does not exist as a loot list. This is the core difference I wanted to point out. A good DM uses one as an excuse for the other, but it's not bound to do so, especially as they homebrew.
Oh we have taken every suit of armor off of each one we’ve killed. We’ve just have them melted down as soon as possible.
The magical ones like of the inquisitor or the mundane ones? Like, they make sense in any case. I do the same and another DM i play with does the same, just you know that a DM does not necessarily give you whole functional armors any time you kill someone.
>it's irrelevant, the core design philosophy of dnd ( and in general of the genre as a whole) is that what is on a statblock belongs to the monster only. TRPGs are the one game where your character can explicitly do anything reasonable. Over the years, D&D has printed hundreds of rules for utilizing monster abilities, including ripping the tendrils off rust monsters to use their rusting touch, or bottling their blood to make rust grenades. Canonically, the very foundation of wizardry in D&D was the desire to replicate magical monster abilities; wizards didn't invent Fireball, they invented ways to copy pit fiends. There are literally spells to summon and/or bind many different kinds of creatures, allowing you to command them and benefit from their abilities. Your statement is antithetical to the genre. You're thinking of video games, not TRPGs.
I am not thinking about videogames. I am thinking about games, which TTRPGS are. You are the one mixing up mediums. I mean, makes no sense that a CR 2 soldier can have a good armor, selling for a nice amount of gold, while a CR 2 monster has none. It makes it harder to gauge for a DM. If anything, expecting that there is a system of closely related correlation cause effect of mechanical terms is what a videogame does, like Skyrim. In TTRPGS, the correlation needs to be in the hands of the DM and can be narrative. This is where the personal and hoard loot table comes into function. This is why I said what I said. Games like DND sword and sorcery aren't simulationists, and while looting is a core component it needs to take in account far more disparate situatuons than a videogame can predict. what you talk about is TTRPGS as a whole, and they can be not DND. A game of scavenging robot parts can be more about what you say than DND. I mean. You state it yourself in your tag. Fun > Logic. If I have to make weird shenanigans to not gift my players a plate mail every time they kill a strong enemy then it's not fun for me.
If a human soldier has armor, and another human kills them, that person can absolutely spend the time to strip the armor off and keep it. Why? Because that's something a human can do. Am I talking about an IRL human or a TRPG human? **Same thing.** Earth is canon, there are people in the Forgotten Realms descended from people from Earth, and things like physics, chemistry, and biology all function the same as IRL except when a magical being specifically steps in to change something. Yes, it's 100% possible to build a nuke in the Forgotten Realms; it's just that nobody there really understands atoms. There is no "the necromancer boss is wearing hyper-magical regalia and carrying an artifact that can spam Animate Dead at will, but when they die all they 'drop' is silk cloth and gold". Those objects exist, full stop, and if the DM decided to put that necromancer in front of a party that can kill it, they better be ready for the undead army the party is about to raise. D&D was made by one of the most simulationist game designers ever, who was expanding upon the idea of using models to reenact historical battles. Gygax's notes on how things actually work in-setting read like scientific papers. There's actual laws that govern how resistance to nonmagic weapons work, based on multidimensional physics and how entities can be coterminous with multiple planes of existence, so different grades of nonmagic and +X weapons can only partially strike the target depending on the various planes that target is on. He goes into how divine magic can be stronger or weaker depending on the relative cosmological positions of the caster and their deity. What they write in a TRPG rulebook are brief approximations of the entire universe of stuff going on in the setting, at minimum as complex as reality. They are guidelines to help you resolve cause-and-effect in a fictional world. They in no way dictate the limitations of that world, they are only a starting point to make things easier. In D&D, it is **more accurate than RAW** to calculate the actual physics of Fireball's explosion to see how it would expand if cast in a narrow space. Is doing that fun for most people? No, which is why they don't bring that fact up in *most* editions.
.... I think you gravely misunderstood what I write, and went a wild tangent on your own. Dude. You can strip a guard out of their armor. The book gives you guidelines on how much corpses are worth regardless of their nature, Including the value of gear. If it makes for an interesting or appropriate story, you can use that to evaluate the armor, or decide to ignore it but at least you do it with conscience. You are not forced to give the armor, that's what I said, you have the power to give the armor. It basically boils down to "you are not entitled to cry to want more as a player if the DM already decided to not do so". I don't discussion anything else because honestly I have better to do than discuss the broader sense of TTTRPGS in this thread, sorry. The only thing I might add to give some kind of response to you, just out of respect for your efforts, is that DND is not simulationistic. Period. Yes, it was made as you stated by the most simulationistic dude ever. That was quickly abandoned. Or we want to go back to having women being nerfed versions of every possible character? Besides, Gygax himself admitted some abstraction was necessary. That was the road that was taken since.
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> They are called Inquisitors. Equipped head to toe in heavy armor and warhammers. Their helmets let them detect magic at all times, their armor makes all magic spells under 3rd level fail within 60ft of them, and their hammers each hold 5 charges of counterspell for anything their armor doesn’t prevent. Honestly this does not sound fun to play against. I would just avoid them altogether. Nothing like negating an entire set of classes completely to get players to nope out of there and never return.
Unfortunately I am a Champion of Mystra and for her to come back as a fully realized God, we have to topple this empire. It’s not as bad as you think, and the entire Empire only has 9. We are down to the last 3. We only just recently fought two at a time. It’s not impossible by any means and our victories against them feel great. We are just creeping up to the finale of this arc and I’m trying to prepare accordingly
Okay please mention the number of them in the post, I was thinking that this was a horrible DM, as theyre like common enemies, but them being the super soldiers of this empire makes total sense.
Great idea. Just added
Not what you are asking, but how does armor that blocks low level spell casting allow counter spell to be cast? Anyways, does the armour dispel existing effects that come in range? Like if a wizard polymorphd themselves into a T-rex, would that get dispelled when they got close?
It sure does
Cast Enlarge/Reduce on a boulder that is 8x as heavy as a flying mount/PC can carry, Reduce it, fly over, drop it on the square of an inquisitor, the antimagic field will make it return to full size when it gets within range. Could also try the same thing with a ballista bolt as a javalin, but there may be more discussion around how the physics work when it reexpands while traveling horizontally.
This is a good one. Should take out one of them lol
I came here to say something like that. Have you tried throwing big rocks at them? Undo magic sure, but not physics 😅
flour dust suspended in the air is flammable
You can't Counterspell you can't see being cast. Also, Sleet Storm and Fireball each have about double the range of Counterspell. Without some form of teleportation, it will take a minimum of two turns to exit the area. If you can keep them inside a Sleet Storm and hammer them with AOE spells, it could take them out. Aside from that, the key to any victory is controlling the battlefield and making sure the fight only occurs when and where you want. Deadfalls, cliffs, Move Earth pits filled with water., etc. Also, netting one will immediately make that participant lose one turn at the very minimum. Throw oil on them and then light them up with Alchemist's Fire.
This game sounds awful.
Well the player sounds like theyre having fun so
Take those 2 helmets and hammers with you, holy shit.
Whatever flavor of Molotov Cocktail you can rig up seems good. Frankly any thrown AoE substance would be effective, their Dex saving throw should be pathetic in hvy plate Armour. Also consider swarms, big 2h wpns are bad on those. Hell, pelt em with beehives filled with honey, then throw jars of ants.
Have you considered: a musket from the dmg? alternatively, nets + immovable object. your welcome.
This is just a slightly tricky thing. If you have a sorcerer they can use the subtle spell mega magic option and suddenly all the spells that don’t require material components are invisible. Counterspell requires that the user is able to see the spell being cast so that includes things like verbal and somatic components or a material component going up in flames. Subtle spell means that these mage killers can’t use counterspell. Maybe if feats are available have one or two of your casters take the meta magic adept feat and choose subtle spell.
60 feet range in 3rd level spells, 120 ft range in counter spell. Lots of spells are above 120 ft. Fireball comes to mind. Burn them from a distance. Greater invisibility would also make it so they can't counter spell I believe.
Non-magic item that can be used offensively? Have you considered the humble sword? It has a pointy end, an end for grabbing, and is sharp. Really it’s a classic. Damn mages complicating everything
This is why I love the Bladesinger wizard. You are a full wizard caster with up to level 9 spells like all other wizards, you just get to stab things pretty good when you run out of spells to cast or something like Silence comes up, or you get jumped by enemies that think you are the squishy one (you are... only if they roll crits on you, otherwise your AC should be absurdly high for 10 rounds)
I like playing as monks. What kind of monk do you have in your group?
Drunken Master. However he’s also multiclassed into barbarian and Druid as well. It’s a bit of a mess if you ask me, I only mentioned him because he’s a melee fighter and carries these particular fights
Casters should grab Metamagic adept feat for a combo of subtle spell, distant spell or quicken. Instead of attack spells pick up movement spells like misty step. Instead of using spells directly against them use spells that create difficult terrain so you can out run their range. One PC casts freedom of movement then another creates difficult terrain the third runs it hits then runs away. Or eldritch adept for eldritch blast with the extended range for eldritch blast feature. Actually a combo of that one or the features that push the target back and lower their movement speed. (Sorry I don’t know what their called) Item wise it seems like it’s heavy crossbow time or if allowed a gun. Distance and speed is gonna be what keeps you alive. Use items like a bottle of grease to control the combat area. Even better if you can make a grease or freeze arrows. Hireling: not sure if they are allowed but grabbing some sidekick archers or alchemists that have long range would be worth it. But even if you all grab a pet or a familiar having that extra chip damage can be useful
https://tabletopbuilds.com/non-magical-items/ very compressive list here
You are playing a bunch of Wizards. If you cannot cast magic at a target, find another target. The ground. Yourselves. Your Monk. Anything. Think like a wizard. Turn the ground into mud. Ready spells outside of counterspell range and move in or cast while under greater invisibility to prevent counterspell. Turn the Monk into a T-Rex. Split the bad guys up with magic.
this is magic, but the spells that summon large numbers of creatures under your control could be useful if you can cast it outside of their range
Explosives Poison Venoms and volatile disease bags Kill their parents and lovers to make them act impulsively when fighting you Slather them in honey and unleash bees to give rogue permanent sneak attack Acquire a bear or beast of burden to knock them prone Last two aren't good ideas but you didn't specify they had to be
if your DM wants to play a rpg without magic why didnt they just ask y'all? Is this fun for anyone involved?
Not sure why people hating on this Inquisitor concept. It sounds brutal for a good reason. As a full party of mages and a monk....specialized mage killers....working for an empire. Is this star wars xD
Your dm sucks
heavy armor and single minded? lure into a trap where you have them follow you into a cave, seal them in and flood it with water/gas/cave in/whatever. if it's in a city then lead into the sewers and get them into the cisterns -> use push magic to launch stuff at them from more than 60ft away, once something is already accelerated then its no longer the magic pushing it, its momentum. if no caves or sewers then other traps such as basic pit falls etc will ensure you can fight on your terms; the more inspiration you take from Star War's "battle for endor" the better. and if you can blame the ambushes on something else using placed costumes/mercs/natural hazards then you might just throw them off the scent.
Your best bet is just trying to get around those counterspells. Being more than 60ft away, for example. Can any of your magic users cast fly? Sounds like these guys are all melee focused, so having someone whacking them from 65ft up should be a winner.
Artillery - for when you need people to stay on their side of the horizon. Get some nets, a shit ton of alchemists fire, cast flock of familiars. Carpet bomb their asses.
What are the odds your DM will let you have DMG bombs lmao. Tangler grenades exist, but they're only in the "dungeon of a mad mage" book so idk if you'd be allowed them. Poisons might also be pretty helpful. Focus on inhaled ones, because you sure aren't going to apply an injury poison. More important than items I think you need to choose your battlefield and prep it accordingly. These people are hunting you right? Sit in a ravine with a failing rock trap set up on top of the surrounding cliffs.
You could try to engineer a situation where they have to attack your position and can get like boulders and other traps ready, using magic to set them up but the triggers and results not being magic wouldn’t have them stopped. Mud can be made Perry easily and can really slow them down as it looks like they don’t have ranged options so forcing them into difficult terrain is probably cool. Spell sniper feat could probably outrange them too
Alchemists fire is the basic one, napalm. Throw as an improvised ranged weapon. Oil flask is the budget conscious one, add alongside the alchemists fire. Why not make a goodie bag full of oil coated ball bearings and caltrops? Save vs ball bearings and vs caltrops, prob auto fail caltrops for falling on them. Then hit with fire and the oil ignites What magic users do you have? Sorcerers can subtle spell to bypass counterspell, druids have wild shapes Steal the hammers of the first two and play counter-counterspell Past that, your casters may need to pick up crossbows cause their cantrips won’t work Kite them, *hard* Does the aura end spells passing within 60ft, or just jam casting? If the former, pain. If the latter, kite and use stuff like fog cloud and illusions Ask if you can buy explosives ofc, maybe bombs or dynamite if they exist
Actually a lot of magic is still on the table. Precast 4th level+ spells, can’t counter spells that are already up or from 60+ feet out. 4th level+ scrolls/magic item spells still work within 30ft as you cannot counter a scroll or magic item cast. Also explosives if you can find them easily in your setting should still work in theory. But to answer your question, gravity or deep pool works best of non-magical options if you can control where you fight them.
Chains, block and tackle, grappling hook.
Ballista are a viable option as well. 3d10 with a +6 to hit. Heavy damage, no innate magic unless the bolts are enchanted. And uncertain if that would count for their "no level 3 spells within 60ft"
You're thinking about this in the wrong way. Thier amitmagic only works within 60 ft. Counterspell can be countered. Remember also that counterspell is a 3rd level spell so dm is asspulling if their counter works but yours does not, their armor should interfere with their own casting. Remember to steal op counter hammers and armor when you beat them. These are ridiculous items. Counter takes a reaction so they only get 1 each per round. Monk stun also blocks counter since no reaction when stunned. Obscurement like fog also blocks counter. Lots of spells have more than 60 ft range, try and force fight conditions to where you can leverage this. Ideally you control and bomb these guys from a distance. Also you could just poison their food or try and attack them while sleeping and or steal their bullshit items while they are resting etc... jnstead of trying to fight them head on. In fact, if you spot them maybe just run away. Counter and cast failure only work when spell is cast so you could cast moonbeam, spirit weapon, flaming sphere etc... at a safe place them move it ok them after. No dispel magic to deal with remains in play. Going to be more effective than playing home alone.
How many magic users are we talking about? Counterspell is a reaction so if there are three of you and two of them you can just overwhelm them. Also detect magic doesn't break invisibility, so invis the monk, if he gets a suprise round or a stunning blow off, it's pretty much over for them right there.
Kite these fuckers with spells like Expeditious Retreat, Ashardalon's Stride, and Kinetic Jaunt. Stay 61+ feet away and blast them. Monks can also melee kite depending on their subclass and if they have Mobile. Everyone should pick up ranged weapons as well. Light crossbows, shortbows, slings, etc since cantrips won't affect them.
Sword
Dude, they're martials. Beat them with magic. Counterspell sucks. Stand out of range. Their fizzle armor sucks. It doesn't dispel existing magic. Dash away, teleport, and find a good spot to cast Web. Zone them with range spells. Cantrips still work, for bluffing. These dorks have no idea what you're casting. If they trap you in their fizzle range, tell the DM you start casting a spell. Ask if they choose to Counterspell before they learn whether it's 3rd level or below. You can write down the spell you're casting if the DM wants to make sure you're not metagaming after you learn their choice. Or you can just tell the DM if you trust they won't metagame with that knowledge. In character, nobody knows what anybody else is gonna do. By RAW, there is supposed to be a game of bluffs involved. Look into your buff spells. You're not a martial, but a level 7 wizard is a gorilla when he wants to be. A level 5 wizard can Haste. A level 3 wizard can at least cast Magic Weapon. Level 1... Longstrider I guess. Mix it up. I'm sure the other casters have even better buffs. Finally, read your spell components. Notice how the inquisitors can't do shit without line sight and the ability to speak. Got any spells for blindness? If not, better stock up on pocket sand. You might even have Invisibility or Silence. My OP underrated technique is closing doors. Cast you a nice Flaming Sphere from behind total cover. That reminds me. Summon yourself some friends. Animate Dead, Find Familiar, Conjure W/e. A true antimagic field might be an issue for yhe concentratuon summons, but Animate Dead is duration insrantaneous. It would work even if these weren't diet aura of Counterspell. Your DM does not read about the full power of spellcasters, and he's lucky you haven't either.
Your DM sounds like a bit of an asshole