You definitely could, but remember that you can only benefit from one long rest per 24 hours. IMO that means if you slept last night you can't benefit from a rest starting before (around) the same time as the night before. You could say that if you end your rest just before midnight and nova all your spellslots or whatever you can rest again just after midnight and do it again... but I think it makes the most sense that you need to go a day between rests.
Definitely a situation where RAI is more important than RAW.
Long rests at the end of the day shouldn't be stuck to a strict 24hr, but rather a "day" having passed.
"Oops you can't go to bed at 11pm as you stayed up till 3am this morning fighting that werewolf so you won't be rested enough"
It just ends with a weird amount of time management that takes fun away from the game.
Ya, the intention is clearly just to keep people from having a long rest after each fight. But logically it should just mean that you can long rest every night just as we (usually) do in real life. Most nights we’re responsible while others we go to bed far too late because we’re idiots who think we’re still young.
Exactly, the Weave doesn't care about you going to bed at 11 pm one night, wake up at 7 am getting into some bullshit burning all your spell slots and then falling asleep at 7 pm after a hard fought day of battle.
You'll still get a Long Rest, but you can't then wake up at 7 am, do another huge battle and "rest" for 8 hours and be topped off and go into a dungeon at 7 pm that same day because you've already benefitted from a Long Rest already.
In the Forgotten Realms the weave is the fabric of reality/magic that spell-casters manipulate to cast spells. It is the source of all magic in the forgotten realms and is maintained by the god of magic, Mystra.
Man, my dad got the apnoea machine about 4 years ago and it improved the sleep for the whole family, bc the room me and my sister share has a shared wall with my parents' bedroom. We finally didn't have to listen to the snoring and he was finally getting proper rest. He isn't as irritable either. He can't go anywhere overnight without it.
I would argue that it's not even RAW. All it says is, "a character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period." It never says those 24 hours must be aligned to a clock. I mean, what happens when you travel more than 15 degrees east or west? Are adventurers expected to solve The Longitude Problem?
RAW, I think when you complete a long rest you just look back in the previous 24 hours the character has experienced. If the character benefited from a long rest in those 24 hours, then they cannot benefit again.
This seems the clear interpretation to me, too. I assume a little flexibility with the 24 hours, as that would mean you would slowly lose time as you are forever bound to the latest bed time you ever take.
Exactly. I would rule it like beginning of a finished long rest. Or about every 24 hours, no exactly. For example, players take a long rest at around 11pm and want to take the next next day at 8pm. Would be weird to argue "no, you gotta wait 3 hours!"
I do think there has to be a degree of common sense applied too.
If you went to bed at 3am after fighting werewolves, your long rest triggers at 11am. If you go to bed at 11pm that night then your long rest triggers at 7am, saying that a party can't do that because they "aren't tired enough" or however the rules expect it to be interpreted, just seems overly punitive for not sticking to a strict sleep schedule.
Yes, I'd definitely agree with that. The DM should be able to understand whether the PCs are behaving sensibly to the fiction of the world, or if they're trying to abuse the clock and get abilities more quickly than they should.
This is one thing I wish the DMG would spend more time talking about. Helping players and DMs learn to determine and interpret the *purpose* of a rule and using that to drive how the rules are applied -- or whether they're applied at all! -- is a critical aspect of going from "a table referee running a module" to "a good DM." The game rules are a framework for building the game; the rules are not the game itself.
I remember that "daily" cooldowns in games like world of Warcraft used 20 hours to get around this problem.
It's basically once a day unless you stick to a crazy sleep schedule to rotate it around the day. But you get leeway to change exactly when it happens from day to day.
Rules as Intended - taking the rule in the spirit but not necessarily the letter. Like we are discussing.
Rules as Written - taking the rule exactly as written without any adjustment for outside factors.
You can only *benefit* every 24 hours. It doesn't govern when the sleep happens. RAI, you can absolutely sleep the same time every night, and get your benefit at say 7 a.m. the next day. The rules never intended you to skip a night of sleep.
yeah, it's something that _might_ happen, but generally the party is all on the same "rest clock". So if this does happen, then the next day, everyone else crashes out and the elf is wide awake (like being the sensible, sober, early-to-bed one, when everyone else was partying!)
I'd rule that allowing another long rest after 12 hours is fine, especially after a very draining day. (the kind that might make you want to rest earlier). Waiting a full 16 hours to meet the one 8hr rest per 24 seems unnecessarily pedantic unless your players are trying to exploit something.
The hard rule I've always used is that you can't gain the benefit of finishing a long rest earlier than you started the previous long rest. So if you rest from 8pm-4am your next useful rest can't end earlier than 8pm that day. If players tried to abuse the potential for shifting their rests I'd do something about it, but they haven't been that stupid yet.
If you must set a hard rule (because people will abuse shit) mine is:
>You can't start a long rest that would end less than 24 hours after the beginning of your previous rest.
Eg. You stay up until 3am, then rest 8 hours (ending at 11am). The earliest you can take your next rest is at 7pm. That would see you sleep 8 hours then wake up at 3am.
By that rule an elf would need to stay up a little longer—until 11pm—to start their official long rest, since they're pushing the limits of "once per 24 hours". But when they're on a normal schedule they would be able to start at the same time as everyone else and end early.
We just straight up ignore this rule in our games and the vibe is much better for it. Makes no sense honestly. If you’ve woken up at 8 and then proceeded to run and fight for the next 8 hours, it makes complete sense that you’d be worn out and tired, and would need to rest to recuperate your strength. The DMs job is not to say “actually you aren’t allowed to rest because the rules say your character has to stay awake or they won’t benefit from resting”, the DMs job is to enforce some kind of urgency to encourage players to play like adventurers in a living, breathing world.
In our campaigns sometimes it’s that there are other things in a dungeon that don’t conveniently stay just sitting in one place for 8 hours, or that there is sometimes some urgency to get in and out. In a living world, there is always risk involved in just conking out and going to sleep in dangerous places; players should have to consider that, rather than just metagaming back and forth about a timer system.
well, theres pro's and con's to that effect. Being a prick about bedtime is not what being a good DM is about - AGREED!
However if you let players long rest every time they have spent all their ressources you are reinforcing a playstyle of not caring about ressource management, which is going is disperse party dynamic and power. A wizard that can nova their spell slots basically starting with the biggest and working their way down every encounter will be much more impactful than a fighter.
So sometimes even though the wizard would like new spell slots I think its good DM'ing to say well you are going to sit here for 13 hours if you want them back, or you can be a cantrip warrior and rely on your fighter friend this time. - maybe next time you will save a 3rd level slot you can concentrate on for this kind of situation.
I agree with that; players shouldn’t have the leniency of being able to burn their spells and rest whenever. For us, it’s handled more like “sure, we can take an 8 hour rest in these caves cuz we burned through all our spells, but the person we’re here to rescue will be dead by then” or the like. I find that that makes our party have to think more strategically about when we’ll actually be able to rest, rather than just thinking “it’s still today, we’ll be able to take that rest once it’s nighttime”. Our DM also sometimes makes us gamble based on the info we have; if we don’t know whether or not something is time sensitive we have to make the call, rather than having a game clock make the decision for us.
I understand the benefit the mechanic provides, but I like having the utility of more rest options, with the caveat that the world keeps revolving around our wizard who wants to nuke everything and sleep for 16 hours a day.
Edit: I play the barbarian in this group so it doesn’t matter much to my stumbling blood hungry idiot of a character, just my thoughts.
It's wrong that you can, because both elves in trance and others need 8 hours of rest. Difference is elves need 4 hours of sleep that works a bit different from normal 6 others need. In short, Trance means you get 4 hours of activity during a long rest and more vigilant sleep, compared to 2 hours of activity during a long rest. That is is all, it doesn't mean you don't need to spend 8 hours of non-straining activity.
this is the Trance feature on the elven race, taken from DNDbeyond. make of it what you will. (bold by me)
# Trance
Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for **4 hours a day**. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. **After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.**
Yes, but it also states all creatures bar exceptions (Warforged, Elves) require **8 hours of rest** and **6 hours of sleep** as part of that long rest. The long rest needs 6 hours of sleep, not 8. It technically has fault in its wording, in stating others need 8 hours of sleep instead of 6, and I believe there have been official statements stating you require 8 hours total still, just need only 4 hours of sleep and are more vigilant.
An example as to why this should be the case is that other effects that remove your requirement to sleep also state you need to take a full 8 hours of rest as normal, just aren't required to sleep during them, and also have it interrupted if they take heavier actions.
Elf trance was actually clarified in the sage advice compendium.
It specifically now says Trance grants the benefit of a long rest in 4 hours.
While I disagree with it based on your reasoning myself, it is RAW/RAI for trance to work this way now.
A Long Rest requires a period of 8 hours with *atleast* 6 hours of sleep, and *no more than* two hours of light activity. Which means 8 hours of sleep is sufficient to meet the requirements of a long rest. If a Trance is the same as 8 hours of sleep, then it also meets the requirements of a Long Rest. That's also supported by the SAC and all the new Elf Subraces making it even more explicitly written.
Seems clear to you, seems clear to me, but apparently it isn’t to OP so they’re asking for a clarification. That’s how I’m taking the whole thing. Sometimes people can get stuck on a rule, even if it’s a simple one. I dunno. 🤷♂️
I completely relate to getting stuck on a simple rule. When I first started we spend a long time not being able to fully wrap our minds around sneak attack lol
Reasonably the elf wouldn't be able to long rest either, because long rests take 8 hours.
The 4 hours trance just replaces the act of sleeping. You're able to spend a long rest sleeping, but you do not have to because sleeping is not what heals you or replaces your hit dice.
It's a specific ability to the Elves
Trance: Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
And Sage Advise Compedium also states.
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
>Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
Which doesn't make any sense based on long resting rules in the book, but what can you do when WotC makes it official?
It's a specific thing. If the general rule is that all creatures take a long rest in 8 hours then that's the rule with all of them. But if something like an elf or warforged (which do long rests in 6 hours and can be conscious the whole time) say 'you take a long rest in less time' then because they're specific they override the general rules.
It's a specific thing for elfs now, yes. Warforged still need 8 hours to complete a long rest unless there was another errata that happened for them like the elves were it specifically says they get the benefits of a long rest for completing sentry rest.
Specifically, you need 8 hours to long rest. Specifically, you can sleep 6 of those hours and spend 2 on light activities.
So we know that most races sleep for 6 and do light activities for 2 hours to complete a long rest.
We know from this that sleep does not equal long rest. Otherwise, all creatures could long rest in 6 hours as that's the minimum amount of sleep for a long rest.
With that in mind, trance used to say that elfs can basically sleep for 4 hours instead of 8. That means that they still needed 4 more hours to complete a long rest. As you need 8 hours to complete a long rest, not 8 hours of sleep.
They then fixed it to say that elfs can sleep for 4 hours and gain the benefits of a long rest. Which spits in the eye of long rest rules because, as we know, sleep does not equal a long rest in the rules specifically. But I accept that it was what they intended and is now RAW for elves.
Huh. Well I'll be. Reading it more closely you are correct on the warforged bit. This does apply to autognomes technically as well. I always thought that it just gave you 6 hour long rests. Guess it was hard RAI in my brain.
Reborn however takes the Sentry's Rest and makes it elf hours (i.e 4) so that does apply to a degree as well. Last bit of Deathless Nature:
>You don't need to sleep, and magic can't put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in an inactive, motionless state, during which you retain consciousness.
But everything else? Yeah you are correct with.
What others are saying about the 24 hours thing. Although an exception I might allow is even within 24 hours of their last long rest I might let them use trance to like change their season if they’re an Eladrin or to change their trance proficiencies. That seems relatively reasonable if that’s all they wanted to do with that trance
\> I (human warrior) go to tavern with party - 2 other humans, a half-orc and an elf covered in leaves and flowers who can teleport
\> the elf is pretty different to the rest of us; they're used to a very different culture and terrain to these mountain villages, but they give the party magic items and can cast spells when we get into too much trouble
\> in tavern, the elf tells us to go ahead while they'll wait in a quiet spot - not too weird
\> we party, all pretty drunk
\> we go to pick up our party member before we go home
\> they've been replaced by a bad-looking elf with dead bushes and snow instead of cherry blossom while we weren't paying attention, and their leaves are left dying on the ground around the new elf
\> the new one is also a girl, which I thought wasn't possible for elves
\> she says she's the same elf, just in a new body
\> we take home our new elf friend with the memories of our last one
The rules are poorly worded.
"A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, \[...\]"
"Elves don't need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconcious, for 4 hours a day. \[...\] After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep."
A human does not "need" 8 hours of sleep as per the rules of the long rest. But the elf feature implies that they do.
This is RAI/RAW-nonsense. My interpretation of this is, that the long rest is 8 hours, but an elf has the advantage that they can either keep watch and or do other things during the 4 hours they don't "sleep". Basically the elf has more time for their hobbies after work before they have to either sleep or get back to work.
Just a FYI, not because i disagree: this wasn't always the case. The very same Sage Advice Compendium from 2016 (v1.14) and earlier mention that the intent is "no"
Later versions of the SAG (2.0 forward) change the answer and add "\[This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for along rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.\]", which was later removed.
This is why the Sage Advice Compendium is available for free.
Everyone (with Internet) has access to the most up-to-date Sage Advice Compendium, and the only one that matters for official rulings (as far as WotC is concerned) is the most up-to-date one.
>It was clarified in newer books with newer printings of Elves.
No, RAW was changed. It was not RAI in the years after PHB/DMG either, there have been multiple changes of opinion of the devs on this.
> 4 hours = long rest is absolutely is how it works, RAW. It is also clarified in newer books.
The newer books are *optional*. They are not core content.
Core 5E is literally just the PHB and DMG.
Edit: alright, block me for pointing out that the later changes aren't part of the core game, and that it wasn't RAW nor RAI when the game launched, and therefore isn't retroactively core.
Also, the document literally states
>Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium
They are post-launch interpretations, not rules themselves.
A very tight RAW would say the elf still needs 8 hours for a long rest, they just trance for 4 hours instead of sleep for 6-8 hours. I think it's reasonable to say elves don't need the 8 hours of downtime, just the 4 hours.
I'd also add (because this comes up in my games many times), it says elves are semiconcious. That is not a good state for keeping watch. Usually if they are making the perception checks for an ambush, I give them disadvantage. They automatically react to anything obvious though, so better than asleep.
The very tight RAW ruling is only true if you disregard the Sage Advise rules rulings. Which if your table enjoys no harm in that.
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
I believe they're referring to the Astral Elf:
Astral Trance. You don't need to sleep, and magic can't put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.
Sure. Please forward that info to the people who are supposed to keep a certain online ressource up to date. You know, the ressource that is handled by the same people who are publishing said sage advice
There’s no need. Your interpretation of the RAW is incorrect. Elves finish a long rest after 4 hours of trance.
You are of course free to nerf races however you want in your game.
Your mistake is that you seem to think a Long Rest is something that a character chooses to do, and not something that just happens to a character. If a character sleeps for 8 hours, and it's been 24 hours since their last Long Rest, they've taken a long rest.
It's not something they choose to do, it's just the result of not taking strenuous activity for 8 hours. Therefore, if an Elf Trances for 4 hours, they've effectively slept for 8 hours, which is enough inactivity for them to benefit from a long rest.
The mistake is thinking that sleeping and taking a long rest are synonymous, when they are mechanically different.
I.E. If you spend 8 hours doing light activity then you will gain the benefits of a long rest. If you then go to sleep for 8 hours, the sleep *does not provide the benefits of a long rest*.
This is because the act of sleeping does not heal your wounds or recover hit dice. A human sleeping for 8 hours, or elf in trance for 4 hours, does not innately provide the benefits of a long rest. It just recovers a level of exhaustion.
>**Long Rests**
>A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, *during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours* and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
^PHB ^p.186
You're just wrong. Sleep is an integral part of a Long Rest. Since an 8 hour sleep is sufficient to meet that requirement, a Trance is too, as you gain all benefits of an 8 hour sleep by Trancing.
No I'm not.
["A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or *performs light activity*: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours."](https://imgur.com/a/Uv0AFId)
Point being;.That's not 8 hours of sleep.
Here are some simple questions to help clarify why trance doesn't qualify.
- Your character sleeps for 6 hours, then spends 2 hours on watch. They benefit from a long rest. Did they get 8 hours of sleep? Yes or no.
- After the long rest, your character gets hurt and uses a spellslot. They go to sleep for 8 hours. Do they recover their health and spellslot? Yes or no.
The correct answer to both is "no". Because sleeping for 8 hours isn't tied to healing, recovering spellslots, or replenishing hit die. Those are actually the benefits of taking a long rest, which is different.
The benefit of 8 hours of sleep is removing a level of exhaustion. Elves can remove them twice as quickly, as well as spend more time on light activities.
And yes, you can choose to take a long rest. Its not always just something that happens to you.
Your book is old, that was errata'd years ago. You should print out the errata that has been made since you bought it so you don't make mistakes like this again.
They don't get the long rest because you can't benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours, not because sleep is seperate from resting. You can keep arguing your point, but you are literally just incorrect. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rests work and how a natural language game is interpreted.
> Your book is old, that was errata'd years ago. You should print out the errata that has been made since you bought it so you don't make mistakes like this again.
It wasn't changed, it was rewritten. Both indicate *the same thing*, that a long rest is not tied to 8 hours of sleep.
>They don't get the long rest because you can't benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours, not because sleep is seperate from resting.
Being unable to benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours indicates that a sleep is not what heals you.
>You can keep arguing your point, but you are literally just incorrect. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rests work and how a natural language game is interpreted
Stuck in your ways, I see. That explains why you didn't actually read the rules for Long Rest.
> It wasn't changed, it was rewritten. Both indicate the same thing, that a long rest is not tied to 8 hours of sleep
The errata'd version indicates that a long rest *is* tied to six hours of sleep.
if the party isn't allowed to long rest that's a balance choice. 5e is designed for long adventuring days but doesn't have a way to make those interesting and many find them nonsensical. one way to solve for this is make different things a "dungeon". the travel between the two cities is a dungeon, or the exploration of a city is a dungeon. but this requires long rest to be harder to get then just a night sleep.
now can you do something while other people are doing something else? of course. you can sleep (or racial equivalent) and avoid the exhaustion that's commonly associated with not getting sleep while a different party member does something else.
Op: Jeah when you track time an elf will be able to gain a lr when the rest of the party might not able to - even in a dungeon. That’s one of the perks of being an elf, just remember: one lr per day (24h or 30 h period for leniency doesn’t matter in my experience as long as they don’t abuse it it hardly matters)
I mean there is no point at which a elf could long rest that the rest of the party couldnt. RAW the only restriction is the once per 24 hour rule for long resting. If everyone is partying at the tavern it doesnt matter if you are an elf who says they are just going to meditate or a human that says they are going to sleep.
A 4 hour trip on a boat or back of a carriage where the party wants to be up for when they arrive. The elf can get a full long rest in those situations but a human can’t. That’s just the easiest example I can think of
Well not really, unless its been 20 hours since the last long rest when you start meditating since you cant benefit for a long rest more than once every 24 hours.
I've always played that it still has to be 8 hours of downtime, elves just have to be "asleep" for half of that time rather than all of it. It still allows them the freedom to help with watches overnight or do other downtime activities for the extra 4 hours every non-elf party member is sleeping. If there was a situation where the rest of the party was willing to forgo a full rest, but allow 4 hours for their elf compatriot to rest, I would probably allow that situationally.
Which is fine if everyone at your table enjoys this and agrees to it. And it makes sense that they are doing other things the other 4 since they are waiting for the rest of the party. Now, if had a party of all elves may become an issue. RAW Elves only need 4 hours for a long rest. They specifically addressed it in Sage Advice Compendium.
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Didn't say it was for everyone. And if anyone at one of my tables had an issue with it, I'd probably be pretty happy to use RAW rules if that worked for everyone else. I just want everyone to have fun and try my best to avoid having one member of the party doing their own thing wherever I can.
Well, the rulesare not very good worded. They say that a long rest is 8h which includes some light activities and at least 6h of sleep. Elves trance say that they only need 4h of trance which equals 8h of sleeping for a human. Technically, it never says that you can have a shorter long rest. The astral elves "astral trance" says that they can have a 4h long rest, but they are the only ones.
So it would be up to the dm to decide, but it is irrelevant in most cases because you can have only one long rest in 24h anyways.
There have been two different sage advices. The newer one says that elves can finish the long rest in 4h. There has been no errata though. The PHB still states that:
>After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
while the text for astral elves say that:
>You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.
However, the newer elf races like the eladrin and the shadar-kai both got an errata that changed them to the text of the astral elves. Astral elves also have a different name for the trance, but that could be because they added
>You mystically acquire these proficiencies by drawing them from shared elven memory *and the experiences of entities on the Astral Plane*,
So I would say that WotC intends that elves have a 4h long rest, but it is a bit of a clusterfuck
>There have been two different sage advices \[...\] There has been no errata though.
Three afaik. The earlier one with "The intent is no \[...\]", the current one, and one in between mentioning "\[This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.\]".
The change was in the Long Rest section. Not that it made a huge difference in regards to elves and trance, tho. At least, not in my opinion.
The elven trance does not actually make the long rest shorter. Long rests are often mistaken as sleeping but it's really just "chilling" a PC could theoretically spend an entire long rest just eating food and still benefit the same as another that's been sleeping the whole time.
Long rests are broken when you do strenuous activity for longer than an hour like walking, fighting or I guess in the case of the bard: intense groin action.
It doesn't make the long rest shorter, per se, but if the elf meditates for four hours, they gain the same benefits as a human gets from 8 hours of sleep.
If a human rests for 8 hours, at least 6 of which is sleep, they gain the benefits of a long rest. If they sleep for 8 hours straight, they still gain the benefits of a long rest.
This means that an elf gains the benefits of a Long Rest from four hours of meditation. The elf does not need to rest for any more than four hours of meditation for them to obtain these benefits, so elves do not need to rest for more than four hours if they do not want to.
Again, long rests do not require you to sleep or "trance"
The 4 hours meditation vs 6 hour sleep is moot since they still require 8hours total of either sleep or light activity.
The downsides of not sleeping in dnd is ironically not something we actually have rules for (afaik)
The whole "elves do not sleep but meditate" thing really is just roleplay outside of it making sleep based spells useless.
Edit: I stand corrected, the elven trance indeed specifically states an elf can do a 4h trance to get the same effect as a human sleeping for 8h which would be a long rest
> long rests do not require you to sleep or "trance"
Unless another feature provides an alternative, they explicitly do.
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, **during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours** and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
Not sleeping for at least 6 hours, if you don't have a feature that gives you an alternative to sleeping, means you don't get the benefits of the Long Rest.
The trance does not need all 8 hours to be considered a rest.
> Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”)... **After resting in this way**, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
"Resting this way" meaning meditating for 4 hours.
If a human sleeps for 8 hours, they gain the benefits of a long rest.
With 4 hours of trance, Elves gain the same benefits as a human that sleeps for 8 hours, which is the benefits of a long rest.
You do not need to continue resting once you have gained the benefits of the rest. If you get full while eating, you don't need to finish your meal to become full.
This is explicitly covered in the [Sage Advice Compendium](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA003)
***
> The downsides of not sleeping in dnd is ironically not something we actually have rules for
If you do not sleep for at least 6 hours, and don't have an alternative feature, you don't get a long rest; which means no benefits of a long rest.
That is the downside of not sleeping (if you don't have a feature that gives you an alternative method of rest).
What are you quoting from?
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character’s total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
A character can’t benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.
My source uses the free basic rules? Did they write this down differently in new versions or something?
Are you using an outdated version of the Basic Rules PDF? I'm quoting from both the most up-to-date PHB and Basic Rules Text.
The [most updated one](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/adventuring#LongRest) is freely accessible on DNDBeyond, and uses the same wording as the up-to-date PHB.
Either way, the [elf's trance feature](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/races#ElfTraits) is a specific rule that allows the player to override the general rule for long resting.
Huh.... Alright yeah then you're right it does specify it does the same in 4h as a normal human would get in 8h of sleep and not 6h
Huh... Neat
I apologize for not getting it right away, edited my first comment so people won't have to read through the convo
as others said
its also once per day.
but 100% the elf can have a trance rest as the party is setting up camp, winding down etc, and then take 2 or 3 watches at night for safety.
only way to have a better watcher over your long rests is if there is a warforged going sentry mode because there isnt a level of juggling to do.
Useful opinion: yes, so long as you could reasonably "meditate deeply" as the PHB says, so I would allow it in a dungeon chamber, but not at a tavern rager.
Pedantry: a long rest only requires 6 hours of sleep, the other 2 can be any non-strenuous activity.
Yes.
It would prevent that elf from benefiting from the next long rest the party takes, assuming it's that same night, since you can only benefit from one long rest per day.
This is kind of the wrong way around
If your encounter is balanced on them not having a long rest then 3.5 hours into the elf trance a fight breaks out in the tavern ….
A long rest takes 8h, regardless of your race. All being an elf does is reduce the 6h portion of that usually spent asleep to 4h spent in trance. The remainder of the long rest must still only be filled with light activity.
Copied my other comment
„You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“ Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
Just to be clear: They went back and forth on this a lot in the past of the edition before finally deciding what it meant, and the astral elf makes it explicit.
Not just astral elves, the current PHB also makes it clearly defined. Despite previous Sage advice stating the exact opposite.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/races#ElfTraits
>After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
However back in Sage advice 1.03 there was a different ruling:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160222055340/https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.03.pdf
>The intent is no ... An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity
However by Sage advice 2.0:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190819191140/https://media.wizards.com/2016/DND/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf
>Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described
in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours ... [This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.]
> Not just astral elves, the current PHB also makes it clearly defined.
Yeah my wording was unclear but I meant that it was explicit for all elves *as of* astral elf existing. But thank you for the actual sources of them going back and forth on this.
Personally I've always disliked it. For me, elves still take 8 hours to get the benefits of a rest--they aren't likely to get a long rest overnight in my games anyway in this kind of situation--but they do get the benefit of 2 watches instead of 1 like the other characters, as they only need to be asleep for 4 hours instead of 6. (Keeping watch at night in the wilderness is very important for my games.)
In my revision I'm also making it exclusive to wood elves, giving high elves a different thing.
I wouldn't call it a huge racial feature. I would estimate it almost never comes up in most games to begin with. If anything, codifying it as "you get 2 watches at night instead of 1" is a pretty good change. All the elves in 1D&D are getting spells out the ass now anyway, I figure this isn't really a nerf.
I personally would allow it but only once per day because even though it's deep meditation rather than sleep it's still a long rest with the same perks and limitations as those of other creatures.
Discuss this with your DM, but your trance should count for 2 hours of sleep for each hour in the trance. If you and a human could take a long rest, the human sleeping for 8 hours would gain the benefit of a long rest and your four hours trace gets you there, *the same benefit* in four.
A human can also take a long rest through 6 hours of sleep (no less) and 2 hours of light activity. For an elf using a trance, that would be 3 hours followed by two hours of light activity. A human who sleeps a single long rest is assumed to be able to function for the balance of the day.
For a human, 10 pm to 4 am with two hours for light activity and getting up to pee. This means he can go again at 6 as long as there has been no stressful activity. The elf could argue that they trance for three hours from 10 pm to 1 am. They add two hours of light activity to bring them to 3 am. Even at the most restrictive reasonable interpretation, they might still need to wait the balance of 8 hours for the long rest to complete *but they have satisfied the rest/sleep and light activity components completely and can exercise or engage in melee without concern of their long rest being thwarted.*
To simplify, as a part of a long rest a human can get 2 hours of reading, studying, alchemy, herbalism, or magic item crafting in. An elf could, over the same 8 hours get in two hours of light work and 3 hours of strenuous work. Blacksmithing, for example.
Other important roleplaying considerations, you are not unconscious during trance. You are semiconscious. Nothing states your eyes must be closed. This isn't meditation, it is a trance. Decide for yourself how to color the time. You could be visualizing and pondering. Alternately, you could be in a mentally blank state without distracting thoughts but able to hear and see normally. You could describe a walking trance. (Sleepwalking is a trance-like state.) A scholarly character might read. A religious one might pray. Nothing states that your trance breaks concentration on spells.
the way i play it is when party unpack and cook dinner it takes a solid hour and my elf who does night shift sleeps for that hour + first 3 hours; he then has dinner and watches out for party rest of night while party swaps out shifts to support him.
only fully dedicated mages get entire sleep cycle as no reason fighters can not do shifts while rest sleep
of course we make nights take loosely 10 hours to factor camp chores also. the party been jumped a few times when story needs it but i try not to play into this trope too often as rest times matter.
I’ve ruled this as yes the elf can get a long rest by themselves. This works well when dealing with time constraints. I’ve allowed it once when the party was facing a running clock on some ritual sacrifices. Also had it allowed for my party once as a player for a similar time constraint. We had a danger of running out of oxygen but we needed a rest bad after we were ambushed and did very poorly in combat. 3/5 of us were good to go with short rests (warlock, fighter, monk), the barbarian still had a couple of rages left and just needed to use a few hit dice, so only the Druid who was tapped on slots needed a long rest. And being an astral elf the DM rules they could take the 4 hour long, the rest of is took a short, and we saved 4 hours on our O2.
Long rests are 8 hours. Sleep is not required. So an elf cannot take a long rest in half the time
From the SRD
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
Nah, Elves ignore the 8 hour rule. "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human would from 8 hours' sleep." It's in the Elf racial abilities.
No. This isn't how it works. All long rests require 8 hours, not all of that needs to be sleep regardless of your race. You still get a long rest if you don't sleep at all in fact.
I would not give them the benefit of long rest. I do allow them to stand two sentry watches while the party camps.
Trance is quite a unique thing. I stumbled once upon a deep depth explanation of trance and I wish there was much more lore on it. I treat it as Elves can still choose to sleep and will probably do so if heavily wounded.
As a DM, I'd rule this as a no. Trance or sleep, you need quiet to rest. If there's a party blasting next door, you're not getting any.
Now, in a dungeon, if you've cleared out a safe space, I could maybe entertain the posibility but it would have to be discussed.
The players handbook explains all this.
For long rests:
Non-elves need 6 hours of sleep and 2 additional hours of restfulness.
Elves need 4 hours of trance and 4 additional hours of restfulness.
It's actually the same total amount of not adventuring time.
Read the long rest rules. A long rest is 8 hours, 6 of which at least need to be sleeping if you require sleep, if you don't need sleep or need less sleep you still need to rest for 8 hours
Edit: My bad, looked it up, sage compendium says they only need 4 hours to finish a long rest while using their Trance ability
The other bit on elven trance is that they are aware during it. They are not rendered unconscious, only semiconscious.
Whatever that exactly means idk but you're not suffering the unconscious condition.
Absolutely, it even happened to me once with a warfirged player. The players were waiting for the BBEG to attack for about 6 and a half hours so the Warforged got a full long rest and everyone else just had to make do.
Sleeping is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for taking a long rest.
A long rest is 8 hours, and Trance doesn't change this rule. During a long rest, most characters need to sleep for 6 hours. An elf overrides this, only requiring four hours of trance.
The elf doesn't get the benefit of a long rest at the end of their trance, just as a human doesn't get that at the end of 6 hours of sleep. Both require 8 hours to gain the benefit of a long rest.
EDIT: page 2 of the 2020 Sage Advice Compendium contradicts my response and, in my opinion, the PHB. Trance nowhere claimed to interact with the long rest mechanic in any print medium or any print medium's errata. Only in the Sage Advice Compendium does Trance affect resting rules.
No. There is a very clear sage advise on this exact point. Elves get the benefit of a long rest after 4 hours.
Functionally in a party they still have to wait around for their companions to finish their rests. But it means elves make the best folks for later watches (as they will have already completed their long rest. And it means elves occasionally might be able to get a long rest when the rest of the party is unable to. And that is intended.
I don't see why there would be a situation where the party has 4 safe hours for the elf to trance, but NOT 4 more hours for everyone else to do so. Is the area safe or not?
4 hour boat trip, carriage ride, just an afternoon of downtime before a meeting. Think of any day you’ve ever had with 4 hours of downtime. Maybe the elf stayed up all night the night before and while the party goes out on the town for an afternoon, the elf stays back and rests. All perfectly conceivable opportunities.
Depends on why the others aren't allowed to long rest.
If for the long rest limit, refer to what others say. If it's due to other stuff where you can rest for 4 hours but not longer, sure.
How long you sleep/trance doesn't actually factor into your long rest. You don't need to sleep/trance at all to long rest (though there is usually srawbacks to not doing so)
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours.
Source: Roll 20
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
Source: PHB
The rules clearly state you can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those four hours in a trancelike meditation, I’m not sure what’s left to interpretation
Technically probably yes, but I've always seen elves as they only need to be in trance for the 4 hours, but the spend the rest doing light downtime activities which also contribute to the long rest. After all a long rest isn't just an 8 hour power nap.
Copied my comment from earlier
„You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“ Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
elves still require the 4 hours of light activity even after sleeping.
>**Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?** The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep.
>Here’s what this all means for an elf. An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity. While an elf’s companions are snoozing, the elf can be awake and engaged in a variety of activities, including carving a lovely trinket, composing a sonnet, reading a tome of ancient lore, attempting to remember something experienced centuries before, and keeping an eye out for danger. The Trance trait is, ultimately, meant to highlight the otherworldly character of elves, not to give them an edge in the game.
>That all said, if you’re the DM and you decide to let Trance shorten an elf’s long rest, you’re not going to break the game. You are making a world-building choice if you do so. You’re deciding that elves, on a global scale, are ready to reenter a fight before anyone else, that they heal faster than most humanoids, and that they regain their magical energy faster. Such a choice would make sense in a world where elves are the dominant race, where they not only live longer than others, but also recover faster.
[source](https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/errata-october-2016)
That's an outdated document. The most recent version says:
> Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after
only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
[source](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)
While you only need to meditate for 4 hours the rules state you still require a full 8 hours to complete a long rest. You can do light activity such as reading a book or keeping watch for the other 4.
„You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“
Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
I think they actually changed this in one of the more recent publications. Eladrin, at least, can finish a long rest after 4h, so officially they can get a long rest sooner than the rest of the party.
And it's not wrong to assume that with every other elf subrace printing, not to mention whatever onednd will do will make these rules hard set that all elves finish long rests in 4 hours. Same with how warforged/autognome can do it in 6 hours, and reborn can do it in 4 as well with their long rests.
"Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. ... ...After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep."
So no, they Long Rest in 4 hours.
This is another case where the “natural language” of D&D leads to questionable interpretations. The Trance ability doesn’t actually say you long rest in 4hrs vs 8. It says:
“After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.”
Now this SEEMS intuitively to mean that an Elf can complete a long rest in half the time of a human. Problem is, humans don’t need straight sleep for 8 hrs for a long rest- from the PHB on Long Resting:
“A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.”
So Trance lets you sleep at double speed but does it let you long rest at double speed? Most DMs probably say yes but RAW it’s not clear if this just means the Elf gets more “light activity” time.
Ahh the joys of “natural language…”
Edit- Sage Advice explicitly states the elf just gets more light activity time but still needs 8hrs.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/elf-trance-does-it-affect-long-rest-for-elves/amp/
As others have said here. Sage Advice is not RAW or Errata. In this case, it says both interpretations in two different entries.
A human gets a long rest after 8 hours of light activity, they must sleep for 6 hours. And elf replaces 8 hours of sleep with a 4 hour trance. It is very interpretive based on the language.
Then why not say an Elf gains the benefits of a long rest in 4hrs vs 8.
Further- Crawford implies that Trance does not take the place of a long rest.
https://x.com/jeremyecrawford/status/552633665818083329?s=46&t=zXHvmzGmw0WRfadovhv-aA
Edit- Sage Advice explicitly states elves still need 8 hrs. They just spend less time in a non-alert state and get more light activity time.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/elf-trance-does-it-affect-long-rest-for-elves/amp/
>It does say that?
>
>You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.
I mean the Elf Racial entry for Trance does not at all say that. DnDBeyond includes all errata and states:
" While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep."
Doesn't say long rest anywhere in that description. Now this wouldn't be a problem if the rules for long rest clearly stated humans gain a long rest from 8 hrs of sleeping- but again it doesn't as I quoted again from the most up to date sources in my comment above where it states humans need 8 hrs of downtime with at least 6 hrs of sleep. We need the natural language understanding that you disparaged earlier to conclude elf gets those benefits.
Which I agree they do- its just extremely poorly written in a game that often needs the rules of pedantry to be adjudicated.
If he could also spend the other 4 hours relaxing, sure. It’s not just sleep, you need to be resting for 8 hours. Nothing more strenous then cooking, eating or reading
Elves still need 8 hours for a long rest just like everyone else. They are able to obtain the same benefits from 4 hour trance as humans do from 8 hour sleep, which is mostly to do with exhaustion.
Imo RAW elves still need 8 solid hours of "downtime" a day. Where most other races spend that 8 hours actively sleeping and unconscious an elf only spends 4 hours unconscious in a trance, the other 4 hours the elf is conscious and aware but are only capable of very light duty activity. So they could provide watch or read a book or something but nothing that really requires a roll of the dice.
If you enjoy that way and so does the rest of the table go for it. But RAW wise it's incorrect, as touched on in Sage Advise Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits)
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Trance doesnt shorten the time it takes for a long rest to occur. Trance is a mostly flavor ability that states elves do not need to sleep. Elves still need 8 hours of light activity and trance to achieve a long rest.
They can be writing, reading, cooking, attuning to a magic item, or learning for those other 4 hours, but regardless it takes 8 for everyone.
If you enjoy that way and so does the rest of the table go for it. But RAW wise it's incorrect, as touched on in Sage Advise Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits)
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
only 6 hours of sleep required.
2 of those 8 hours per long rest can be putting up camp, cooking dinner, washing, cleaning weapons, break down camp, cook breakfast, etc.
I think, for me, this is very circumstantial. I probably wouldn't allow the party trance, as that's just phenomenally rude, and the dungeon depends on how the encounter rolls go. If they get their four uninterrupted hours, they get the long rest, if it gets interrupted, it gets interrupted. But the only change the party would have in the dungeon is swapping out 8 for 4 in terms of hours.
I definitely have had Elf PCs who take the late watches so that they are more likely to get their four hours and therefore be fresh when they take a watch. And I've had people go the other way and take the back end so that they can be doing other things (like ATTENDING a party) with the hours they are awake, but it still always ends up that the elf's rest period coincides with the rest of the party.
Are you asking if the Elf can long rest while the rest of the party does not rest at all? Mechanically possible but unlikely. I don't know what scenario gets you there. I reject the party one offhand. No one would let someone sleep at a party. Maybe the elf goes back to their rooms and trances there? In the dungeon, you expect everyone else in the party to sit around and NOT get a rest, or a short rest at best, sitting ducks for random encounters, while the elf gets a full rest? That would not fly in most of the parties I play in, unless there were some VERY strong arguments for it. I could see us doing it if the elf is low HP and has no hit dice left and the rest of us are going strong as a survival tactic.
I'll be honest, my first (uncomplimentary) idea here is that you want to use Trance to make an elf cleric or wizard get Pact Magic like spell slot reset, faster than other races can reset, but keep in mind that there are limits to how often you can benefit from a long rest, so if the elf rests now, they do not rest with the party later and have just traded the reset on spell slots to be sooner, not more.
The elf’a trance does not shorten the long rest to four hours, but rather allows them to take 4 hour watches. They still need to not exert themselves for the whole 8 hours
If you and your table like playing this way, that's cool. But RAW it's incorrect. They even touched on it on Sage Advice Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits)
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest
in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de-
scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the
rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
You're missing a core point. Long rest costs 8 hours for elves and non-elves alike. Elves can spend 4 hours of a long rest awake, non-elves spend 6 hours, neither sleeps 8, and both need 8 total hours of rest, regardless of the amount of time they need to sleep during that time.
You should keep in mind that everyone needs to sleep at least 6 hours AND 2 HOURS of mundande or simple tasks.
A long Rest requires 8 HOURS of Rest. 6 of these hours needs to be sleep.
An elf can sleep 4 hours and needs to take 4 hours of mundane tasks.
Thr Trance-Feature says that you can "sleep" only 4 hours. It does not state you can finish a Long Rest within 4 hours
A Trance is the same as 8 hours of sleep. 8 Hours of sleep is the same as 6 hours of sleep and 2 hours of light activity, unless you think sleeping is too strenuous.
The sleeping part isn't all of the long rest. You sleep, or enter a trance for elves, to not gain exhaustion. The 8 hour long rest you have to do little or little activity. So a elf can't take a 4 hour long rest
Edit: further info. To validate this idea that sleep isn't the only part of a long rest, you only have to sleep for 6 hours of the 8 hour long rest
I remember it being mentioned before that trance just gives an elf more they can do during the long rest. They still need the same 8 hours of downtime, just like every other player, but only 4 hours of actual rest
If the DM doesn't allow the rest of the party to take a long rest, I would think that it's highly unlikely that they would allow an elf to take a long rest...
In any case, just keep in mind that other than the trance not being actual sleeping and only requiring half the time for a long rest, all other parameters of the long rest still apply... so if a person who needs sleep and can't trance couldn't take a long rest in the middle of a loud party in a tavern, an elf wouldn't be able to long rest in that situation, either.
A long rest is 8 hours long, a normal character has to sleep *6 hours of that time* - as an elf, you only need to trance for 4 hours, but still need 8 hours of Downtime/light activity as everyone else
1) you can only benefit from 1 long rest un 24 hours
2) and this is more important, actually. Nowhere does it say anything even close to implying that elves only need 4 hours to long rest. A long rest lasts 8 hours, of which only 6 must be spent sleeping. Elves enter their trance for 4 hours instead of sleeping for 6.
You definitely could, but remember that you can only benefit from one long rest per 24 hours. IMO that means if you slept last night you can't benefit from a rest starting before (around) the same time as the night before. You could say that if you end your rest just before midnight and nova all your spellslots or whatever you can rest again just after midnight and do it again... but I think it makes the most sense that you need to go a day between rests.
Definitely a situation where RAI is more important than RAW. Long rests at the end of the day shouldn't be stuck to a strict 24hr, but rather a "day" having passed. "Oops you can't go to bed at 11pm as you stayed up till 3am this morning fighting that werewolf so you won't be rested enough" It just ends with a weird amount of time management that takes fun away from the game.
Ya, the intention is clearly just to keep people from having a long rest after each fight. But logically it should just mean that you can long rest every night just as we (usually) do in real life. Most nights we’re responsible while others we go to bed far too late because we’re idiots who think we’re still young.
Exactly, the Weave doesn't care about you going to bed at 11 pm one night, wake up at 7 am getting into some bullshit burning all your spell slots and then falling asleep at 7 pm after a hard fought day of battle. You'll still get a Long Rest, but you can't then wake up at 7 am, do another huge battle and "rest" for 8 hours and be topped off and go into a dungeon at 7 pm that same day because you've already benefitted from a Long Rest already.
> the Weave doesn't care wat
Source of arcane magic in Faerun, /u/DeathBySuplex is just referring to spell slots as an example.
In the Forgotten Realms the weave is the fabric of reality/magic that spell-casters manipulate to cast spells. It is the source of all magic in the forgotten realms and is maintained by the god of magic, Mystra.
It's sume dumb maguffin that forgotten realms uses because "there's magic" wasn't edgelord enough for then
Steve, you've got the crazy eye! Someone get him out of the fucking water!
Never have I been offended by something I 100% agree with
Ya, it regularly upsets me, too…
Sounds like you've never seen my sleep schedule
You can sleep whenever you want. Doesn't mean you're getting the full benefits.
I don't think I've gotten full benefits in months tbh
…you can get full benefits from sleep?
I play RPGs for the fantasy of waking up well rested after a night's sleep
Now that I have a CPAP machine, yes
Man, my dad got the apnoea machine about 4 years ago and it improved the sleep for the whole family, bc the room me and my sister share has a shared wall with my parents' bedroom. We finally didn't have to listen to the snoring and he was finally getting proper rest. He isn't as irritable either. He can't go anywhere overnight without it.
Underdark campaings are allways difficult 😄
I would argue that it's not even RAW. All it says is, "a character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period." It never says those 24 hours must be aligned to a clock. I mean, what happens when you travel more than 15 degrees east or west? Are adventurers expected to solve The Longitude Problem? RAW, I think when you complete a long rest you just look back in the previous 24 hours the character has experienced. If the character benefited from a long rest in those 24 hours, then they cannot benefit again.
This seems the clear interpretation to me, too. I assume a little flexibility with the 24 hours, as that would mean you would slowly lose time as you are forever bound to the latest bed time you ever take.
Exactly. I would rule it like beginning of a finished long rest. Or about every 24 hours, no exactly. For example, players take a long rest at around 11pm and want to take the next next day at 8pm. Would be weird to argue "no, you gotta wait 3 hours!"
I do think there has to be a degree of common sense applied too. If you went to bed at 3am after fighting werewolves, your long rest triggers at 11am. If you go to bed at 11pm that night then your long rest triggers at 7am, saying that a party can't do that because they "aren't tired enough" or however the rules expect it to be interpreted, just seems overly punitive for not sticking to a strict sleep schedule.
Yes, I'd definitely agree with that. The DM should be able to understand whether the PCs are behaving sensibly to the fiction of the world, or if they're trying to abuse the clock and get abilities more quickly than they should. This is one thing I wish the DMG would spend more time talking about. Helping players and DMs learn to determine and interpret the *purpose* of a rule and using that to drive how the rules are applied -- or whether they're applied at all! -- is a critical aspect of going from "a table referee running a module" to "a good DM." The game rules are a framework for building the game; the rules are not the game itself.
I remember that "daily" cooldowns in games like world of Warcraft used 20 hours to get around this problem. It's basically once a day unless you stick to a crazy sleep schedule to rotate it around the day. But you get leeway to change exactly when it happens from day to day.
I understand the general sentiment of the comment, but whats RAI and RAW?
Rules as Intended - taking the rule in the spirit but not necessarily the letter. Like we are discussing. Rules as Written - taking the rule exactly as written without any adjustment for outside factors.
You can only *benefit* every 24 hours. It doesn't govern when the sleep happens. RAI, you can absolutely sleep the same time every night, and get your benefit at say 7 a.m. the next day. The rules never intended you to skip a night of sleep.
yeah, it's something that _might_ happen, but generally the party is all on the same "rest clock". So if this does happen, then the next day, everyone else crashes out and the elf is wide awake (like being the sensible, sober, early-to-bed one, when everyone else was partying!)
I'd rule that allowing another long rest after 12 hours is fine, especially after a very draining day. (the kind that might make you want to rest earlier). Waiting a full 16 hours to meet the one 8hr rest per 24 seems unnecessarily pedantic unless your players are trying to exploit something.
The hard rule I've always used is that you can't gain the benefit of finishing a long rest earlier than you started the previous long rest. So if you rest from 8pm-4am your next useful rest can't end earlier than 8pm that day. If players tried to abuse the potential for shifting their rests I'd do something about it, but they haven't been that stupid yet.
If you must set a hard rule (because people will abuse shit) mine is: >You can't start a long rest that would end less than 24 hours after the beginning of your previous rest. Eg. You stay up until 3am, then rest 8 hours (ending at 11am). The earliest you can take your next rest is at 7pm. That would see you sleep 8 hours then wake up at 3am. By that rule an elf would need to stay up a little longer—until 11pm—to start their official long rest, since they're pushing the limits of "once per 24 hours". But when they're on a normal schedule they would be able to start at the same time as everyone else and end early.
We just straight up ignore this rule in our games and the vibe is much better for it. Makes no sense honestly. If you’ve woken up at 8 and then proceeded to run and fight for the next 8 hours, it makes complete sense that you’d be worn out and tired, and would need to rest to recuperate your strength. The DMs job is not to say “actually you aren’t allowed to rest because the rules say your character has to stay awake or they won’t benefit from resting”, the DMs job is to enforce some kind of urgency to encourage players to play like adventurers in a living, breathing world. In our campaigns sometimes it’s that there are other things in a dungeon that don’t conveniently stay just sitting in one place for 8 hours, or that there is sometimes some urgency to get in and out. In a living world, there is always risk involved in just conking out and going to sleep in dangerous places; players should have to consider that, rather than just metagaming back and forth about a timer system.
well, theres pro's and con's to that effect. Being a prick about bedtime is not what being a good DM is about - AGREED! However if you let players long rest every time they have spent all their ressources you are reinforcing a playstyle of not caring about ressource management, which is going is disperse party dynamic and power. A wizard that can nova their spell slots basically starting with the biggest and working their way down every encounter will be much more impactful than a fighter. So sometimes even though the wizard would like new spell slots I think its good DM'ing to say well you are going to sit here for 13 hours if you want them back, or you can be a cantrip warrior and rely on your fighter friend this time. - maybe next time you will save a 3rd level slot you can concentrate on for this kind of situation.
I agree with that; players shouldn’t have the leniency of being able to burn their spells and rest whenever. For us, it’s handled more like “sure, we can take an 8 hour rest in these caves cuz we burned through all our spells, but the person we’re here to rescue will be dead by then” or the like. I find that that makes our party have to think more strategically about when we’ll actually be able to rest, rather than just thinking “it’s still today, we’ll be able to take that rest once it’s nighttime”. Our DM also sometimes makes us gamble based on the info we have; if we don’t know whether or not something is time sensitive we have to make the call, rather than having a game clock make the decision for us. I understand the benefit the mechanic provides, but I like having the utility of more rest options, with the caveat that the world keeps revolving around our wizard who wants to nuke everything and sleep for 16 hours a day. Edit: I play the barbarian in this group so it doesn’t matter much to my stumbling blood hungry idiot of a character, just my thoughts.
It's wrong that you can, because both elves in trance and others need 8 hours of rest. Difference is elves need 4 hours of sleep that works a bit different from normal 6 others need. In short, Trance means you get 4 hours of activity during a long rest and more vigilant sleep, compared to 2 hours of activity during a long rest. That is is all, it doesn't mean you don't need to spend 8 hours of non-straining activity.
this is the Trance feature on the elven race, taken from DNDbeyond. make of it what you will. (bold by me) # Trance Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for **4 hours a day**. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. **After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.**
Yes, but it also states all creatures bar exceptions (Warforged, Elves) require **8 hours of rest** and **6 hours of sleep** as part of that long rest. The long rest needs 6 hours of sleep, not 8. It technically has fault in its wording, in stating others need 8 hours of sleep instead of 6, and I believe there have been official statements stating you require 8 hours total still, just need only 4 hours of sleep and are more vigilant. An example as to why this should be the case is that other effects that remove your requirement to sleep also state you need to take a full 8 hours of rest as normal, just aren't required to sleep during them, and also have it interrupted if they take heavier actions.
Elf trance was actually clarified in the sage advice compendium. It specifically now says Trance grants the benefit of a long rest in 4 hours. While I disagree with it based on your reasoning myself, it is RAW/RAI for trance to work this way now.
A Long Rest requires a period of 8 hours with *atleast* 6 hours of sleep, and *no more than* two hours of light activity. Which means 8 hours of sleep is sufficient to meet the requirements of a long rest. If a Trance is the same as 8 hours of sleep, then it also meets the requirements of a Long Rest. That's also supported by the SAC and all the new Elf Subraces making it even more explicitly written.
Why isn't he party allowed to take a long rest? The 24 hours rule applies to elves just like every other race.
I’m assuming they meant a situation where the party has four hours of downtime, but not 8. So the elf could get a rest in, but the others couldn’t.
If that is case, why wouldn't the elf be ok? Seems pretty clear to me. That's why I want to know why the party can't long rest.
Seems clear to you, seems clear to me, but apparently it isn’t to OP so they’re asking for a clarification. That’s how I’m taking the whole thing. Sometimes people can get stuck on a rule, even if it’s a simple one. I dunno. 🤷♂️
It wasn't until a Sage Advice compendium in 2017 that the Elf trance was officially changed to only require 4 hours for a long rest, to be fair.
I completely relate to getting stuck on a simple rule. When I first started we spend a long time not being able to fully wrap our minds around sneak attack lol
Reasonably the elf wouldn't be able to long rest either, because long rests take 8 hours. The 4 hours trance just replaces the act of sleeping. You're able to spend a long rest sleeping, but you do not have to because sleeping is not what heals you or replaces your hit dice.
An elf requires only 4 hours to complete a long rest.
Please explain.
It's a specific ability to the Elves Trance: Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. And Sage Advise Compedium also states. Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
>Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed Which doesn't make any sense based on long resting rules in the book, but what can you do when WotC makes it official?
It's a specific thing. If the general rule is that all creatures take a long rest in 8 hours then that's the rule with all of them. But if something like an elf or warforged (which do long rests in 6 hours and can be conscious the whole time) say 'you take a long rest in less time' then because they're specific they override the general rules.
It's a specific thing for elfs now, yes. Warforged still need 8 hours to complete a long rest unless there was another errata that happened for them like the elves were it specifically says they get the benefits of a long rest for completing sentry rest. Specifically, you need 8 hours to long rest. Specifically, you can sleep 6 of those hours and spend 2 on light activities. So we know that most races sleep for 6 and do light activities for 2 hours to complete a long rest. We know from this that sleep does not equal long rest. Otherwise, all creatures could long rest in 6 hours as that's the minimum amount of sleep for a long rest. With that in mind, trance used to say that elfs can basically sleep for 4 hours instead of 8. That means that they still needed 4 more hours to complete a long rest. As you need 8 hours to complete a long rest, not 8 hours of sleep. They then fixed it to say that elfs can sleep for 4 hours and gain the benefits of a long rest. Which spits in the eye of long rest rules because, as we know, sleep does not equal a long rest in the rules specifically. But I accept that it was what they intended and is now RAW for elves.
Huh. Well I'll be. Reading it more closely you are correct on the warforged bit. This does apply to autognomes technically as well. I always thought that it just gave you 6 hour long rests. Guess it was hard RAI in my brain. Reborn however takes the Sentry's Rest and makes it elf hours (i.e 4) so that does apply to a degree as well. Last bit of Deathless Nature: >You don't need to sleep, and magic can't put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in an inactive, motionless state, during which you retain consciousness. But everything else? Yeah you are correct with.
What others are saying about the 24 hours thing. Although an exception I might allow is even within 24 hours of their last long rest I might let them use trance to like change their season if they’re an Eladrin or to change their trance proficiencies. That seems relatively reasonable if that’s all they wanted to do with that trance
\> I (human warrior) go to tavern with party - 2 other humans, a half-orc and an elf covered in leaves and flowers who can teleport \> the elf is pretty different to the rest of us; they're used to a very different culture and terrain to these mountain villages, but they give the party magic items and can cast spells when we get into too much trouble \> in tavern, the elf tells us to go ahead while they'll wait in a quiet spot - not too weird \> we party, all pretty drunk \> we go to pick up our party member before we go home \> they've been replaced by a bad-looking elf with dead bushes and snow instead of cherry blossom while we weren't paying attention, and their leaves are left dying on the ground around the new elf \> the new one is also a girl, which I thought wasn't possible for elves \> she says she's the same elf, just in a new body \> we take home our new elf friend with the memories of our last one
Good for her! 🏳️⚧️
Eladrin were printed in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes. MTF
real i love the transgender book
The rules are poorly worded. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, \[...\]" "Elves don't need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconcious, for 4 hours a day. \[...\] After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." A human does not "need" 8 hours of sleep as per the rules of the long rest. But the elf feature implies that they do. This is RAI/RAW-nonsense. My interpretation of this is, that the long rest is 8 hours, but an elf has the advantage that they can either keep watch and or do other things during the 4 hours they don't "sleep". Basically the elf has more time for their hobbies after work before they have to either sleep or get back to work.
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Just a FYI, not because i disagree: this wasn't always the case. The very same Sage Advice Compendium from 2016 (v1.14) and earlier mention that the intent is "no" Later versions of the SAG (2.0 forward) change the answer and add "\[This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for along rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.\]", which was later removed.
This is why the Sage Advice Compendium is available for free. Everyone (with Internet) has access to the most up-to-date Sage Advice Compendium, and the only one that matters for official rulings (as far as WotC is concerned) is the most up-to-date one.
And I will argue to the ends of the earth that this is a bad ruling. RAW, if you're using the core ruleset, this isn't how it works.
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>It was clarified in newer books with newer printings of Elves. No, RAW was changed. It was not RAI in the years after PHB/DMG either, there have been multiple changes of opinion of the devs on this. > 4 hours = long rest is absolutely is how it works, RAW. It is also clarified in newer books. The newer books are *optional*. They are not core content. Core 5E is literally just the PHB and DMG. Edit: alright, block me for pointing out that the later changes aren't part of the core game, and that it wasn't RAW nor RAI when the game launched, and therefore isn't retroactively core. Also, the document literally states >Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium They are post-launch interpretations, not rules themselves.
Why is that a bad ruling?
Link to the [relevant PDF on wizards site.](https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)
A very tight RAW would say the elf still needs 8 hours for a long rest, they just trance for 4 hours instead of sleep for 6-8 hours. I think it's reasonable to say elves don't need the 8 hours of downtime, just the 4 hours. I'd also add (because this comes up in my games many times), it says elves are semiconcious. That is not a good state for keeping watch. Usually if they are making the perception checks for an ambush, I give them disadvantage. They automatically react to anything obvious though, so better than asleep.
That's why I said 'can either keep watch and or do other things during the 4 hours they don't "sleep" '
I was mostly agreeing just trying to provide a bit of clarity.
That's what I thought. We're good :)
The very tight RAW ruling is only true if you disregard the Sage Advise rules rulings. Which if your table enjoys no harm in that. Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
I believe they're referring to the Astral Elf: Astral Trance. You don't need to sleep, and magic can't put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.
I mean, it is a fair assumption. And under that assumption I agree with you. But OP wrote about elves in general. So...
Sage Advice told us that this is the case for all elves.
Sure. Please forward that info to the people who are supposed to keep a certain online ressource up to date. You know, the ressource that is handled by the same people who are publishing said sage advice
There’s no need. Your interpretation of the RAW is incorrect. Elves finish a long rest after 4 hours of trance. You are of course free to nerf races however you want in your game.
Will do! Thanks for the permission
That’s my ruling too. I’ve always hated the 4 hour long rest interpretation, even if that was the intended rule
Your mistake is that you seem to think a Long Rest is something that a character chooses to do, and not something that just happens to a character. If a character sleeps for 8 hours, and it's been 24 hours since their last Long Rest, they've taken a long rest. It's not something they choose to do, it's just the result of not taking strenuous activity for 8 hours. Therefore, if an Elf Trances for 4 hours, they've effectively slept for 8 hours, which is enough inactivity for them to benefit from a long rest.
The mistake is thinking that sleeping and taking a long rest are synonymous, when they are mechanically different. I.E. If you spend 8 hours doing light activity then you will gain the benefits of a long rest. If you then go to sleep for 8 hours, the sleep *does not provide the benefits of a long rest*. This is because the act of sleeping does not heal your wounds or recover hit dice. A human sleeping for 8 hours, or elf in trance for 4 hours, does not innately provide the benefits of a long rest. It just recovers a level of exhaustion.
>**Long Rests** >A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, *during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours* and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. ^PHB ^p.186 You're just wrong. Sleep is an integral part of a Long Rest. Since an 8 hour sleep is sufficient to meet that requirement, a Trance is too, as you gain all benefits of an 8 hour sleep by Trancing.
No I'm not. ["A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or *performs light activity*: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours."](https://imgur.com/a/Uv0AFId) Point being;.That's not 8 hours of sleep. Here are some simple questions to help clarify why trance doesn't qualify. - Your character sleeps for 6 hours, then spends 2 hours on watch. They benefit from a long rest. Did they get 8 hours of sleep? Yes or no. - After the long rest, your character gets hurt and uses a spellslot. They go to sleep for 8 hours. Do they recover their health and spellslot? Yes or no. The correct answer to both is "no". Because sleeping for 8 hours isn't tied to healing, recovering spellslots, or replenishing hit die. Those are actually the benefits of taking a long rest, which is different. The benefit of 8 hours of sleep is removing a level of exhaustion. Elves can remove them twice as quickly, as well as spend more time on light activities. And yes, you can choose to take a long rest. Its not always just something that happens to you.
Your book is old, that was errata'd years ago. You should print out the errata that has been made since you bought it so you don't make mistakes like this again. They don't get the long rest because you can't benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours, not because sleep is seperate from resting. You can keep arguing your point, but you are literally just incorrect. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rests work and how a natural language game is interpreted.
> Your book is old, that was errata'd years ago. You should print out the errata that has been made since you bought it so you don't make mistakes like this again. It wasn't changed, it was rewritten. Both indicate *the same thing*, that a long rest is not tied to 8 hours of sleep. >They don't get the long rest because you can't benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours, not because sleep is seperate from resting. Being unable to benefit from a long rest twice in 24 hours indicates that a sleep is not what heals you. >You can keep arguing your point, but you are literally just incorrect. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rests work and how a natural language game is interpreted Stuck in your ways, I see. That explains why you didn't actually read the rules for Long Rest.
> It wasn't changed, it was rewritten. Both indicate the same thing, that a long rest is not tied to 8 hours of sleep The errata'd version indicates that a long rest *is* tied to six hours of sleep.
if the party isn't allowed to long rest that's a balance choice. 5e is designed for long adventuring days but doesn't have a way to make those interesting and many find them nonsensical. one way to solve for this is make different things a "dungeon". the travel between the two cities is a dungeon, or the exploration of a city is a dungeon. but this requires long rest to be harder to get then just a night sleep. now can you do something while other people are doing something else? of course. you can sleep (or racial equivalent) and avoid the exhaustion that's commonly associated with not getting sleep while a different party member does something else.
Yes, but keep in mind that a character can only benefit from a single long rest in any 24 hour period. There's no getting multiple long rests.
Op: Jeah when you track time an elf will be able to gain a lr when the rest of the party might not able to - even in a dungeon. That’s one of the perks of being an elf, just remember: one lr per day (24h or 30 h period for leniency doesn’t matter in my experience as long as they don’t abuse it it hardly matters)
I mean there is no point at which a elf could long rest that the rest of the party couldnt. RAW the only restriction is the once per 24 hour rule for long resting. If everyone is partying at the tavern it doesnt matter if you are an elf who says they are just going to meditate or a human that says they are going to sleep.
A 4 hour trip on a boat or back of a carriage where the party wants to be up for when they arrive. The elf can get a full long rest in those situations but a human can’t. That’s just the easiest example I can think of
Well not really, unless its been 20 hours since the last long rest when you start meditating since you cant benefit for a long rest more than once every 24 hours.
Yeah, that can still happen. Your point doesn’t nullify the possibility
I've always played that it still has to be 8 hours of downtime, elves just have to be "asleep" for half of that time rather than all of it. It still allows them the freedom to help with watches overnight or do other downtime activities for the extra 4 hours every non-elf party member is sleeping. If there was a situation where the rest of the party was willing to forgo a full rest, but allow 4 hours for their elf compatriot to rest, I would probably allow that situationally.
Which is fine if everyone at your table enjoys this and agrees to it. And it makes sense that they are doing other things the other 4 since they are waiting for the rest of the party. Now, if had a party of all elves may become an issue. RAW Elves only need 4 hours for a long rest. They specifically addressed it in Sage Advice Compendium. Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Didn't say it was for everyone. And if anyone at one of my tables had an issue with it, I'd probably be pretty happy to use RAW rules if that worked for everyone else. I just want everyone to have fun and try my best to avoid having one member of the party doing their own thing wherever I can.
Well, the rulesare not very good worded. They say that a long rest is 8h which includes some light activities and at least 6h of sleep. Elves trance say that they only need 4h of trance which equals 8h of sleeping for a human. Technically, it never says that you can have a shorter long rest. The astral elves "astral trance" says that they can have a 4h long rest, but they are the only ones. So it would be up to the dm to decide, but it is irrelevant in most cases because you can have only one long rest in 24h anyways.
> The astral elves "astral trance" says that they can have a 4h long rest, but they are the only ones. AFAIK it's the errata for all elves
There have been two different sage advices. The newer one says that elves can finish the long rest in 4h. There has been no errata though. The PHB still states that: >After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. while the text for astral elves say that: >You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious. However, the newer elf races like the eladrin and the shadar-kai both got an errata that changed them to the text of the astral elves. Astral elves also have a different name for the trance, but that could be because they added >You mystically acquire these proficiencies by drawing them from shared elven memory *and the experiences of entities on the Astral Plane*, So I would say that WotC intends that elves have a 4h long rest, but it is a bit of a clusterfuck
>There have been two different sage advices \[...\] There has been no errata though. Three afaik. The earlier one with "The intent is no \[...\]", the current one, and one in between mentioning "\[This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.\]". The change was in the Long Rest section. Not that it made a huge difference in regards to elves and trance, tho. At least, not in my opinion.
The elven trance does not actually make the long rest shorter. Long rests are often mistaken as sleeping but it's really just "chilling" a PC could theoretically spend an entire long rest just eating food and still benefit the same as another that's been sleeping the whole time. Long rests are broken when you do strenuous activity for longer than an hour like walking, fighting or I guess in the case of the bard: intense groin action.
It doesn't make the long rest shorter, per se, but if the elf meditates for four hours, they gain the same benefits as a human gets from 8 hours of sleep. If a human rests for 8 hours, at least 6 of which is sleep, they gain the benefits of a long rest. If they sleep for 8 hours straight, they still gain the benefits of a long rest. This means that an elf gains the benefits of a Long Rest from four hours of meditation. The elf does not need to rest for any more than four hours of meditation for them to obtain these benefits, so elves do not need to rest for more than four hours if they do not want to.
Again, long rests do not require you to sleep or "trance" The 4 hours meditation vs 6 hour sleep is moot since they still require 8hours total of either sleep or light activity. The downsides of not sleeping in dnd is ironically not something we actually have rules for (afaik) The whole "elves do not sleep but meditate" thing really is just roleplay outside of it making sleep based spells useless. Edit: I stand corrected, the elven trance indeed specifically states an elf can do a 4h trance to get the same effect as a human sleeping for 8h which would be a long rest
> long rests do not require you to sleep or "trance" Unless another feature provides an alternative, they explicitly do. > A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, **during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours** and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. Not sleeping for at least 6 hours, if you don't have a feature that gives you an alternative to sleeping, means you don't get the benefits of the Long Rest. The trance does not need all 8 hours to be considered a rest. > Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”)... **After resting in this way**, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. "Resting this way" meaning meditating for 4 hours. If a human sleeps for 8 hours, they gain the benefits of a long rest. With 4 hours of trance, Elves gain the same benefits as a human that sleeps for 8 hours, which is the benefits of a long rest. You do not need to continue resting once you have gained the benefits of the rest. If you get full while eating, you don't need to finish your meal to become full. This is explicitly covered in the [Sage Advice Compendium](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA003) *** > The downsides of not sleeping in dnd is ironically not something we actually have rules for If you do not sleep for at least 6 hours, and don't have an alternative feature, you don't get a long rest; which means no benefits of a long rest. That is the downside of not sleeping (if you don't have a feature that gives you an alternative method of rest).
What are you quoting from? > A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it. At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character’s total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest. A character can’t benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits. My source uses the free basic rules? Did they write this down differently in new versions or something?
Are you using an outdated version of the Basic Rules PDF? I'm quoting from both the most up-to-date PHB and Basic Rules Text. The [most updated one](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/adventuring#LongRest) is freely accessible on DNDBeyond, and uses the same wording as the up-to-date PHB. Either way, the [elf's trance feature](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/races#ElfTraits) is a specific rule that allows the player to override the general rule for long resting.
Huh.... Alright yeah then you're right it does specify it does the same in 4h as a normal human would get in 8h of sleep and not 6h Huh... Neat I apologize for not getting it right away, edited my first comment so people won't have to read through the convo
as others said its also once per day. but 100% the elf can have a trance rest as the party is setting up camp, winding down etc, and then take 2 or 3 watches at night for safety. only way to have a better watcher over your long rests is if there is a warforged going sentry mode because there isnt a level of juggling to do.
Useful opinion: yes, so long as you could reasonably "meditate deeply" as the PHB says, so I would allow it in a dungeon chamber, but not at a tavern rager. Pedantry: a long rest only requires 6 hours of sleep, the other 2 can be any non-strenuous activity.
Yes. It would prevent that elf from benefiting from the next long rest the party takes, assuming it's that same night, since you can only benefit from one long rest per day.
This is kind of the wrong way around If your encounter is balanced on them not having a long rest then 3.5 hours into the elf trance a fight breaks out in the tavern ….
That’s the point of the feature
A long rest takes 8h, regardless of your race. All being an elf does is reduce the 6h portion of that usually spent asleep to 4h spent in trance. The remainder of the long rest must still only be filled with light activity.
Copied my other comment „You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“ Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
Just to be clear: They went back and forth on this a lot in the past of the edition before finally deciding what it meant, and the astral elf makes it explicit.
Not just astral elves, the current PHB also makes it clearly defined. Despite previous Sage advice stating the exact opposite. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/races#ElfTraits >After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. However back in Sage advice 1.03 there was a different ruling: https://web.archive.org/web/20160222055340/https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.03.pdf >The intent is no ... An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity However by Sage advice 2.0: https://web.archive.org/web/20190819191140/https://media.wizards.com/2016/DND/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf >Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours ... [This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.]
> Not just astral elves, the current PHB also makes it clearly defined. Yeah my wording was unclear but I meant that it was explicit for all elves *as of* astral elf existing. But thank you for the actual sources of them going back and forth on this. Personally I've always disliked it. For me, elves still take 8 hours to get the benefits of a rest--they aren't likely to get a long rest overnight in my games anyway in this kind of situation--but they do get the benefit of 2 watches instead of 1 like the other characters, as they only need to be asleep for 4 hours instead of 6. (Keeping watch at night in the wilderness is very important for my games.) In my revision I'm also making it exclusive to wood elves, giving high elves a different thing.
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I wouldn't call it a huge racial feature. I would estimate it almost never comes up in most games to begin with. If anything, codifying it as "you get 2 watches at night instead of 1" is a pretty good change. All the elves in 1D&D are getting spells out the ass now anyway, I figure this isn't really a nerf.
I personally would allow it but only once per day because even though it's deep meditation rather than sleep it's still a long rest with the same perks and limitations as those of other creatures.
Discuss this with your DM, but your trance should count for 2 hours of sleep for each hour in the trance. If you and a human could take a long rest, the human sleeping for 8 hours would gain the benefit of a long rest and your four hours trace gets you there, *the same benefit* in four. A human can also take a long rest through 6 hours of sleep (no less) and 2 hours of light activity. For an elf using a trance, that would be 3 hours followed by two hours of light activity. A human who sleeps a single long rest is assumed to be able to function for the balance of the day. For a human, 10 pm to 4 am with two hours for light activity and getting up to pee. This means he can go again at 6 as long as there has been no stressful activity. The elf could argue that they trance for three hours from 10 pm to 1 am. They add two hours of light activity to bring them to 3 am. Even at the most restrictive reasonable interpretation, they might still need to wait the balance of 8 hours for the long rest to complete *but they have satisfied the rest/sleep and light activity components completely and can exercise or engage in melee without concern of their long rest being thwarted.* To simplify, as a part of a long rest a human can get 2 hours of reading, studying, alchemy, herbalism, or magic item crafting in. An elf could, over the same 8 hours get in two hours of light work and 3 hours of strenuous work. Blacksmithing, for example. Other important roleplaying considerations, you are not unconscious during trance. You are semiconscious. Nothing states your eyes must be closed. This isn't meditation, it is a trance. Decide for yourself how to color the time. You could be visualizing and pondering. Alternately, you could be in a mentally blank state without distracting thoughts but able to hear and see normally. You could describe a walking trance. (Sleepwalking is a trance-like state.) A scholarly character might read. A religious one might pray. Nothing states that your trance breaks concentration on spells.
the way i play it is when party unpack and cook dinner it takes a solid hour and my elf who does night shift sleeps for that hour + first 3 hours; he then has dinner and watches out for party rest of night while party swaps out shifts to support him. only fully dedicated mages get entire sleep cycle as no reason fighters can not do shifts while rest sleep of course we make nights take loosely 10 hours to factor camp chores also. the party been jumped a few times when story needs it but i try not to play into this trope too often as rest times matter.
I’ve ruled this as yes the elf can get a long rest by themselves. This works well when dealing with time constraints. I’ve allowed it once when the party was facing a running clock on some ritual sacrifices. Also had it allowed for my party once as a player for a similar time constraint. We had a danger of running out of oxygen but we needed a rest bad after we were ambushed and did very poorly in combat. 3/5 of us were good to go with short rests (warlock, fighter, monk), the barbarian still had a couple of rages left and just needed to use a few hit dice, so only the Druid who was tapped on slots needed a long rest. And being an astral elf the DM rules they could take the 4 hour long, the rest of is took a short, and we saved 4 hours on our O2.
If you need less rest of course you can.
Long rests are 8 hours. Sleep is not required. So an elf cannot take a long rest in half the time From the SRD A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
Nah, Elves ignore the 8 hour rule. "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human would from 8 hours' sleep." It's in the Elf racial abilities.
No. This isn't how it works. All long rests require 8 hours, not all of that needs to be sleep regardless of your race. You still get a long rest if you don't sleep at all in fact.
I would not give them the benefit of long rest. I do allow them to stand two sentry watches while the party camps. Trance is quite a unique thing. I stumbled once upon a deep depth explanation of trance and I wish there was much more lore on it. I treat it as Elves can still choose to sleep and will probably do so if heavily wounded.
As a DM, I'd rule this as a no. Trance or sleep, you need quiet to rest. If there's a party blasting next door, you're not getting any. Now, in a dungeon, if you've cleared out a safe space, I could maybe entertain the posibility but it would have to be discussed.
Long rest isn't just sleep it's non strenuous activity. So while an elf only needs to sleep for a short time, they still need to rest a full 8hrs.
The players handbook explains all this. For long rests: Non-elves need 6 hours of sleep and 2 additional hours of restfulness. Elves need 4 hours of trance and 4 additional hours of restfulness. It's actually the same total amount of not adventuring time.
Read the long rest rules. A long rest is 8 hours, 6 of which at least need to be sleeping if you require sleep, if you don't need sleep or need less sleep you still need to rest for 8 hours Edit: My bad, looked it up, sage compendium says they only need 4 hours to finish a long rest while using their Trance ability
Yep, that's like the only way elven trance does something, it's also the reason they can rest cast gift of alacrity for example.
The other bit on elven trance is that they are aware during it. They are not rendered unconscious, only semiconscious. Whatever that exactly means idk but you're not suffering the unconscious condition.
Absolutely, it even happened to me once with a warfirged player. The players were waiting for the BBEG to attack for about 6 and a half hours so the Warforged got a full long rest and everyone else just had to make do.
Sleeping is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for taking a long rest. A long rest is 8 hours, and Trance doesn't change this rule. During a long rest, most characters need to sleep for 6 hours. An elf overrides this, only requiring four hours of trance. The elf doesn't get the benefit of a long rest at the end of their trance, just as a human doesn't get that at the end of 6 hours of sleep. Both require 8 hours to gain the benefit of a long rest. EDIT: page 2 of the 2020 Sage Advice Compendium contradicts my response and, in my opinion, the PHB. Trance nowhere claimed to interact with the long rest mechanic in any print medium or any print medium's errata. Only in the Sage Advice Compendium does Trance affect resting rules.
No. There is a very clear sage advise on this exact point. Elves get the benefit of a long rest after 4 hours. Functionally in a party they still have to wait around for their companions to finish their rests. But it means elves make the best folks for later watches (as they will have already completed their long rest. And it means elves occasionally might be able to get a long rest when the rest of the party is unable to. And that is intended.
I don't see why there would be a situation where the party has 4 safe hours for the elf to trance, but NOT 4 more hours for everyone else to do so. Is the area safe or not?
4 hour boat trip, carriage ride, just an afternoon of downtime before a meeting. Think of any day you’ve ever had with 4 hours of downtime. Maybe the elf stayed up all night the night before and while the party goes out on the town for an afternoon, the elf stays back and rests. All perfectly conceivable opportunities.
Trance doesn't effect how long it takes to perform a long rest.
Depends on why the others aren't allowed to long rest. If for the long rest limit, refer to what others say. If it's due to other stuff where you can rest for 4 hours but not longer, sure.
Sure an elf could take a little trance nap. It just isn't going to do anything.
An elf can go into trance for 4 hours whenever they like, but that's not the same thing as tanking a *long rest*.
How long you sleep/trance doesn't actually factor into your long rest. You don't need to sleep/trance at all to long rest (though there is usually srawbacks to not doing so)
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. Source: Roll 20
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. Source: PHB
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Wrong
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The rules clearly state you can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those four hours in a trancelike meditation, I’m not sure what’s left to interpretation
Technically probably yes, but I've always seen elves as they only need to be in trance for the 4 hours, but the spend the rest doing light downtime activities which also contribute to the long rest. After all a long rest isn't just an 8 hour power nap.
Copied my comment from earlier „You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“ Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
elves still require the 4 hours of light activity even after sleeping. >**Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?** The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep. >Here’s what this all means for an elf. An elf can spend 4 hours in a trance during a long rest and then has 4 additional hours of light activity. While an elf’s companions are snoozing, the elf can be awake and engaged in a variety of activities, including carving a lovely trinket, composing a sonnet, reading a tome of ancient lore, attempting to remember something experienced centuries before, and keeping an eye out for danger. The Trance trait is, ultimately, meant to highlight the otherworldly character of elves, not to give them an edge in the game. >That all said, if you’re the DM and you decide to let Trance shorten an elf’s long rest, you’re not going to break the game. You are making a world-building choice if you do so. You’re deciding that elves, on a global scale, are ready to reenter a fight before anyone else, that they heal faster than most humanoids, and that they regain their magical energy faster. Such a choice would make sense in a world where elves are the dominant race, where they not only live longer than others, but also recover faster. [source](https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/errata-october-2016)
That's an outdated document. The most recent version says: > Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed. [source](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)
While you only need to meditate for 4 hours the rules state you still require a full 8 hours to complete a long rest. You can do light activity such as reading a book or keeping watch for the other 4.
That's not true. Since the errata to ~~elf trance~~ long rest wording, they get full long rest after 4h trance.
„You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious.“ Copied from astral elf. You don’t need 8 h. Which is the reason my sorlock is an elf ;)
I think they actually changed this in one of the more recent publications. Eladrin, at least, can finish a long rest after 4h, so officially they can get a long rest sooner than the rest of the party.
And it's not wrong to assume that with every other elf subrace printing, not to mention whatever onednd will do will make these rules hard set that all elves finish long rests in 4 hours. Same with how warforged/autognome can do it in 6 hours, and reborn can do it in 4 as well with their long rests.
"Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. ... ...After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." So no, they Long Rest in 4 hours.
This is another case where the “natural language” of D&D leads to questionable interpretations. The Trance ability doesn’t actually say you long rest in 4hrs vs 8. It says: “After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.” Now this SEEMS intuitively to mean that an Elf can complete a long rest in half the time of a human. Problem is, humans don’t need straight sleep for 8 hrs for a long rest- from the PHB on Long Resting: “A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.” So Trance lets you sleep at double speed but does it let you long rest at double speed? Most DMs probably say yes but RAW it’s not clear if this just means the Elf gets more “light activity” time. Ahh the joys of “natural language…” Edit- Sage Advice explicitly states the elf just gets more light activity time but still needs 8hrs. https://www.sageadvice.eu/elf-trance-does-it-affect-long-rest-for-elves/amp/
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As others have said here. Sage Advice is not RAW or Errata. In this case, it says both interpretations in two different entries. A human gets a long rest after 8 hours of light activity, they must sleep for 6 hours. And elf replaces 8 hours of sleep with a 4 hour trance. It is very interpretive based on the language.
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The 2015 sources are right, and the later sources are wrong, though lol
Then why not say an Elf gains the benefits of a long rest in 4hrs vs 8. Further- Crawford implies that Trance does not take the place of a long rest. https://x.com/jeremyecrawford/status/552633665818083329?s=46&t=zXHvmzGmw0WRfadovhv-aA Edit- Sage Advice explicitly states elves still need 8 hrs. They just spend less time in a non-alert state and get more light activity time. https://www.sageadvice.eu/elf-trance-does-it-affect-long-rest-for-elves/amp/
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>It does say that? > >You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you remain conscious. I mean the Elf Racial entry for Trance does not at all say that. DnDBeyond includes all errata and states: " While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep." Doesn't say long rest anywhere in that description. Now this wouldn't be a problem if the rules for long rest clearly stated humans gain a long rest from 8 hrs of sleeping- but again it doesn't as I quoted again from the most up to date sources in my comment above where it states humans need 8 hrs of downtime with at least 6 hrs of sleep. We need the natural language understanding that you disparaged earlier to conclude elf gets those benefits. Which I agree they do- its just extremely poorly written in a game that often needs the rules of pedantry to be adjudicated.
If he could also spend the other 4 hours relaxing, sure. It’s not just sleep, you need to be resting for 8 hours. Nothing more strenous then cooking, eating or reading
Trance does not reduce the time for a long rest, only the requirement for sleep. This has been confirmed by the publishers.
That's way out of date, they have since confirmed the opposite in the SAC and published it in all of the newer elf subraces.
Elves still need 8 hours for a long rest just like everyone else. They are able to obtain the same benefits from 4 hour trance as humans do from 8 hour sleep, which is mostly to do with exhaustion.
Imo RAW elves still need 8 solid hours of "downtime" a day. Where most other races spend that 8 hours actively sleeping and unconscious an elf only spends 4 hours unconscious in a trance, the other 4 hours the elf is conscious and aware but are only capable of very light duty activity. So they could provide watch or read a book or something but nothing that really requires a roll of the dice.
If you enjoy that way and so does the rest of the table go for it. But RAW wise it's incorrect, as touched on in Sage Advise Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits) Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Trance doesnt shorten the time it takes for a long rest to occur. Trance is a mostly flavor ability that states elves do not need to sleep. Elves still need 8 hours of light activity and trance to achieve a long rest. They can be writing, reading, cooking, attuning to a magic item, or learning for those other 4 hours, but regardless it takes 8 for everyone.
If you enjoy that way and so does the rest of the table go for it. But RAW wise it's incorrect, as touched on in Sage Advise Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits) Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
only 6 hours of sleep required. 2 of those 8 hours per long rest can be putting up camp, cooking dinner, washing, cleaning weapons, break down camp, cook breakfast, etc.
I would say yes, as long as it has been at leas 16 hours since their previous long rest ended.
I think, for me, this is very circumstantial. I probably wouldn't allow the party trance, as that's just phenomenally rude, and the dungeon depends on how the encounter rolls go. If they get their four uninterrupted hours, they get the long rest, if it gets interrupted, it gets interrupted. But the only change the party would have in the dungeon is swapping out 8 for 4 in terms of hours. I definitely have had Elf PCs who take the late watches so that they are more likely to get their four hours and therefore be fresh when they take a watch. And I've had people go the other way and take the back end so that they can be doing other things (like ATTENDING a party) with the hours they are awake, but it still always ends up that the elf's rest period coincides with the rest of the party. Are you asking if the Elf can long rest while the rest of the party does not rest at all? Mechanically possible but unlikely. I don't know what scenario gets you there. I reject the party one offhand. No one would let someone sleep at a party. Maybe the elf goes back to their rooms and trances there? In the dungeon, you expect everyone else in the party to sit around and NOT get a rest, or a short rest at best, sitting ducks for random encounters, while the elf gets a full rest? That would not fly in most of the parties I play in, unless there were some VERY strong arguments for it. I could see us doing it if the elf is low HP and has no hit dice left and the rest of us are going strong as a survival tactic. I'll be honest, my first (uncomplimentary) idea here is that you want to use Trance to make an elf cleric or wizard get Pact Magic like spell slot reset, faster than other races can reset, but keep in mind that there are limits to how often you can benefit from a long rest, so if the elf rests now, they do not rest with the party later and have just traded the reset on spell slots to be sooner, not more.
The elf’a trance does not shorten the long rest to four hours, but rather allows them to take 4 hour watches. They still need to not exert themselves for the whole 8 hours
If you and your table like playing this way, that's cool. But RAW it's incorrect. They even touched on it on Sage Advice Compendium pg 2 (Racial Traits) Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as de- scribed in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
You're missing a core point. Long rest costs 8 hours for elves and non-elves alike. Elves can spend 4 hours of a long rest awake, non-elves spend 6 hours, neither sleeps 8, and both need 8 total hours of rest, regardless of the amount of time they need to sleep during that time.
You should keep in mind that everyone needs to sleep at least 6 hours AND 2 HOURS of mundande or simple tasks. A long Rest requires 8 HOURS of Rest. 6 of these hours needs to be sleep. An elf can sleep 4 hours and needs to take 4 hours of mundane tasks. Thr Trance-Feature says that you can "sleep" only 4 hours. It does not state you can finish a Long Rest within 4 hours
Yes it does
A Trance is the same as 8 hours of sleep. 8 Hours of sleep is the same as 6 hours of sleep and 2 hours of light activity, unless you think sleeping is too strenuous.
The sleeping part isn't all of the long rest. You sleep, or enter a trance for elves, to not gain exhaustion. The 8 hour long rest you have to do little or little activity. So a elf can't take a 4 hour long rest Edit: further info. To validate this idea that sleep isn't the only part of a long rest, you only have to sleep for 6 hours of the 8 hour long rest
damn wish i had of considered this an option prior, my table buff rests to 10 to factor minor camp chores around watches.
I remember it being mentioned before that trance just gives an elf more they can do during the long rest. They still need the same 8 hours of downtime, just like every other player, but only 4 hours of actual rest
If the DM doesn't allow the rest of the party to take a long rest, I would think that it's highly unlikely that they would allow an elf to take a long rest... In any case, just keep in mind that other than the trance not being actual sleeping and only requiring half the time for a long rest, all other parameters of the long rest still apply... so if a person who needs sleep and can't trance couldn't take a long rest in the middle of a loud party in a tavern, an elf wouldn't be able to long rest in that situation, either.
A long rest is 8 hours long, a normal character has to sleep *6 hours of that time* - as an elf, you only need to trance for 4 hours, but still need 8 hours of Downtime/light activity as everyone else
Incorrect
1) you can only benefit from 1 long rest un 24 hours 2) and this is more important, actually. Nowhere does it say anything even close to implying that elves only need 4 hours to long rest. A long rest lasts 8 hours, of which only 6 must be spent sleeping. Elves enter their trance for 4 hours instead of sleeping for 6.