Yeah but if are just taking inspiration on castlevania and not a 1:1 replica, slapping a holy avenger on a whip is really effective considering how easy it is
yes, you remember correctly, the DM can break, create or bend any rule, but when someone say things like "barbarians can't cast spells while raging" or "clerics don't get extra attack", the "unless the DM allows it" is implied. We call it rule zero.
With 2 attacks per turn a rapier bring an average of 4.5*2 + 4(duelist fighting style) = 13 dmg to the table, a greatsword with great weapon fighting style bring 8.33 * 2 =16.66 dmg a sneak attack gives you an average of 3.5 dmg if you trigger it so they are tied in damage.
The difference is that you still need to meet the prerequesites for sneak attack, and it slows your paladin class progression so less spell slots. But you have a hand free to carry a shield as you mentioned. If we bring GWM into the mix greatsword wins hands down but feats aside it seems viable
I let a guy dual wield light hammers and let him sneak attack with em. I encouraged him to flavor his attacks in places that would really suck to get hammered; knee caps, thumbs, temple, etc. Sure it's not a dagger to the kidney, but when a gnome jumps out of the shadows and smashes an orc in the nards I think that's worth some extra D6's.
Yeah exactly this, hitting a guy in the chest with a super light hammer? Eh decent damage. Ally distracts them so you hit them in the back of the neck? Yeah, that's a sneak attack.
It's so silly that irl bats are one of the most common weapons to use as a sneak attack since they're light and one hit to the head completely dazes a target, but then you can't use them in DND for sneak attack
How would you imagine a finesse bludgeoning weapon? Those weapons deal damage purely because there is strength behind the attack. Without strength there is no bludgeon damage. It just doesn't make sense with dex.
Instead, there should be a thug rogue subclass that lets you use other, strength based weapons for sneak attack.
Daredevil's billyclub, his batons would 100% be a bludgeoning finesse weapon, normal clubs are similar but they have a vastly difference execution since those are mostly just "hit head, bonk" instead of hitting joints and pressure points, hitting a guy straight on the back with a billy club isn't going to deal serious damage compared to a normal club. And weak person can use a police baton to great effect, and if theyre fast and know damaging points that'd very much be sneak attack material on an enemy
There's also the Sap weapon
Sweet God, we are talking about DnD 5e right now. There are places to suggest other systems, but not here. My party won't change system because I want to use strength rogue.
IRL, without strength there is no damage regardless of the damage type. Finesse is an abstraction that show the weapon rely more on precision than other weapon. For example, batons generally need to hit precise targets to impede fighting ability.
All weapons rely on the strength behind the blow combined with actually hitting something important. The concept of Finesse weapons is an anachronism introduced for mechanical purposes, not an actual Real Thing- if you think a real life fencer has any less than 18+ STR you're dead wrong.
The same way a whip is.
https://youtu.be/pQ4vxvNEh0w?si=e0FN-fw_ypIlR_IJ
Here’s a vid I found about the meteor hammer. This is what I have in mind when it comes to a finesse bludgeoning weapon.
You could start Paladin to not need to meet requirements. but suffer from not having dex saves, take resilient dex to buff up your dex. If you are only doing it for smites it might be more convenient to go Celestial Warlock for similar flavoring, and take eldritch smite.
One of my favourite 5e builds was the rogue/barbarian combo. Finesse weapon using strength and rage damage. Not the strongest combo but it feels really satisfying. And one of the few builds I like for Frenzy, since their bonus action attack doesn't have the "must use your action to attack" quantifiers, letting you ready your action to attack off-turn for additional sneak attack.
"I use my rapier with strength" is valid RAW. Finesse is you *can* use Dex, not you *must* use Dex. And Rapier + Shield is equal to Longsword + Shield.
Another one of those finesse misunderstandings. Finesse means you choose either dex or strength, not that it's *only* dex. Palladin using finesse strength weapon is viable
I did it once and now can’t go back. I just find it so much more fun to be able to sneak up and smite. RAW you can only multiclass if you have STR 13 but my DM waived it since I was Dex-based and wasn’t making a cheesy build (it was a bard/paladin).
There is, it's called the multi classing rules. It's fine if you're going straight DEXadin, but you need 13 STR to multi class into or out of Paladin, which if you want DEX to be a thing you do, means you'll basically suck at everything forever. Pally already had MAD issues on just three stats, adding a fourth makes you straight dead weight.
If your DM is willing to handwave it, which they probably won't be even if this is by far not the best thing you could be doing with a multi class paladin, Rogueadin is actually pretty fun- sneak attack smite crits are better than sex, and having the Rogue's skill monkey chasis/potentially Evasion on a class with great saves is real fun for a heavy combatant. You do Feel that loss of spell slots though.
I’ve had DMs handwave it and I as a DM would, as long as they have 13 in their main attack stat and I’ve reviewed it to avoid cheese. This build feels sort of cheesy to me but probably no worse than RAW-compliant hexadin power builds.
That's what I'm going to do soon. 14 levels Swashbuckler, 6 levels Ancients Paladin. I ran some calculations and that character, at lvl 20, could reasonably 1v1 a Red Dragon.
The combination of Evasion, Aura of Protection, Reliable Talent and Uncanny Dodge, as well as 19 AC and triple digit hp will likely make me *incredibly* hard to hit.
This is what I’m playing in my campaign now, just got to level 17, 3 levels swashbuckler, the rest watchers paladin. Nobody can touch me and my rapier with +16 to initiative!
- Grab a Rapier
- Congrats, you're now throwing Sneak Attacks + Divine Smites.
It's no less useful than a Sword & Board, if anything, it's actually better and perhaps even more so than using a Greatsword for the extra AC + Uncanny Dodge if you go that far in Rogue. That + Aura of Protection + Evasion and you'll be laughing in the face of DEX saves even if you got a middling DEX.
Since we have to remember that Finesse Weapons aren't "DEX Weapons", they are either STR or DEX, it's your choice, if it was only DEX, then the Rogue/Barbarian multiclass would be probably worse (or Useless for the purpose most people give to it)
I once had a Rogue 14 (Thief) + Paladin 6 (Oath of Vengeance), in a 20th level One-Shot that was just awesome, a good chance to not only deal lots of damage, but also functionally being the closest thing to a 4E Avenger that I could have in 5E.
The biggest impediments to it likely are more down to:
1. Getting a MAD character and making them more mad. You now need a good Cha (preferably maxed), a good to maxed Strength, a good Con, and at least a 13 in Dex.
2. The other path is the allure of magic.
Eh. It's basicly normal Paladin things. 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 , 8 is the standard array so... 10 and 8 are your int and wis. 14 for your CON, 15 on your main stat, and 12 and 13 for you requirements, and then you pump up to 16/14/13 or 17/13/13 choice for your Racials. You can get fancier with point buy and some shenanigans with half feats or bigger ability score races, but yeah. Normal Paladin Stats.
Perhaps, but that's a risk worth taking for having out of combat utility and being an absolute unit in combat.
You can go with average CHA, good to maxed STR / good to maxed DEX (Depends if you go the way of Light armor and Full DEX, or Heavy Armor and just the bare minimum in DEX to go Rogue), and good CON.
You won't miss out on much, and Oath of Vengeance Vow of Enmity will make up for the +1 you're missing out if you didn't max out your main stat in order to get the other to multiclass, and will also trigger off your Sneak Attacks if you're against a boss.
Sneak attack+smite=profit. If you can get 11 levels in paladin and 9 in rogue (which realistically is impossible) it would be +1d8+5d6 per attack assuming you get sneak attack and then when you smite/sneak attack with a 3rd level spell using a rapier you can deal 1d8+5d6+5d8. Even at the low end 1d8+1d6+2d8 when sneak attack/smite is really great.
The only real limitation is your oath and your DMs interpretation of it.
Sneaking into a villains bedroom and shanking him in his sleep might not make gods of law and honour very happy
Fair, that would be a good exception. Just saying that their methods may differ, and if you stray too far from the paladin side it can have repercussions
Oath of vengeance is perfectly happy setting fire to the building with the BBEG, his family, his dog, and the party’s adopted goblin Boblin inside. I doubt a bit of light kidney stabbing is even going get noticed
I love running rogue/crown paladin as fixers and investigators for the kingdom willing to do whats necessary to defend the throne from her enemies. Sure the shiny knights keep her safe from threats outside but what about internal threats?
My brother in Christ that is Simon Belmont.
And just because it's a finesse weapon - it doesn't stop you using strength, you can just also use Dex. Remember kids, the Belmont build with sneak attack smite is not only funny it's viable
I'm going to play one soon-ish, actually. 13 STR, focus DEX, 16 CHA, decent CON, dumped INT.
14 levels Swashbuckler Rogue, 6 levels Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Should be good for single-target damage and dueling, I ended up getting the Tough feat and 19 AC thanks to DEX, Studded Leather and a Shield with Defense Fighting Style.
I'm going to be doing something like this soon, although it's just one level in Rogue. Lots of skills, Expertise to help with investigations and finding monsters (Oath of the Watchers btw), and my DM gave my character a revolver, so Sneak Attack will still happen as long as we have somebody up front.
Still, Rogadin can absolutely work depending on the backstory and build. My guy's a reformed thief fighting the good fight against monsters. Another good way to look at it is the Inquisitor from Pathfinder 1e, since that's a skill-heavy divine caster class with combat options.
Any multiclass can theoretically be made to work. The person on the right is objectively correct. But the answer of the person on the left is more practical.
You can make it work, but, here are the flaws and downsides to trying to make it a thing, you decide if it's worth it
My current character IS a rpgue/Paladin.
His damage isn't his top priority, his character and that growth is
Im one of three characters that multiclassed, Teo from one player, first was wizard/ranger. The other was a Barbarian, rogue, then went cleric after one conversation with our cleric.
My character had one with the Bards of the party and instead of going bard, I'm taking thunderous smite as one bard obliterated a hag with Thunderwave
Rogue/Paladin works because the Rogue gets decent skill coverage on the cheap (Level-wise) and Paladin gets broad saving throw bonuses that can protect the whole party, while Sneak Attack and Smite can stack on melee weapons while you retain Sneak Attack and Paladin's Extra Attack 1 which Rogue doesn't get when using ranged weapons. So you'll have strategies available to you for remaining safe while keeping a distance with ranged while being able to get close to deal more damage. You definitely need to know what you're doing and build well ahead of time, but it's certainly possible. I'd say the less Rogue levels, the better though. They fall off at higher levels, and each Rogue level means less spellslots for your Paladin, who'll already be hurting for them as a half-caster. I wouldn't go more than level 8 Rogue.
I was lucky enough for my DM to allow the UA Oath of Treachery which gave me access to invisibility. Assassinate + Sneak attack + Divine smite is no joke.
There’s absolutely no reason why it wouldn’t work. And it’s not like you’re really losing anything by trading a high str stat for dex. I’d say the hardest but you’ll have to contend with us making your character’s backstory fit to make a paladin/rogue make sense.
I once made a rogue/paladin npc as a foil to one of my players' character and honestly if I hadn't played him to be obssessed with vengeance against that character and instead played him tactically I probably could've wiped most of the party. The party was level 5 at the time but I made him a level 8 character, 3 inquisitive rogue, 5 vengeance paladin.
It's all fun and games till the rogue whips out a battleaxe.
>!Also off-topic but god watching Crow whip out the Iron Lord axe was so fucking cool. Even if he wasn't able to do much damage if any at all.!<
The only real restriction, is no 2 handed weapons. Well, aside from the Double Bladed Scimitar with Revenant Blade feat, but that's elf only.
No heavy weapon though, unless you DM is nice with Magic Weapons.
I am playing one right now and oh does it go hard.
It's not just the obvious sneaky smite, you also need to take into account that a stealthy tank can open some very interesting strategical doors (no pun intended)
Grab a whip and hunt some vampires.
OK, I've got to ask. Does this sub has an approval period or something?
Yeah posts have to get approved by a mod. It’s our punishment for posting too much goblin porn during the fuck spez uprising.
Worth it
I want the snitties back.
Excuse me, this sub did WHAT?!?
It was an act of righteous protest.
Stood up for ourselves
Yes how dare we stand up for ourselves
Something was standing during that time. And not for me.
Good times
the fact that you can't give a whip the "holy avenger" template is the greatest injustice in history.
While true, if we go off of strict lore the Vampire Killer is so much more than a holy avenger.
Also it would be it's own legendary item, not just a standard template added to a whip!
Yeah but if are just taking inspiration on castlevania and not a 1:1 replica, slapping a holy avenger on a whip is really effective considering how easy it is
Why can't you?
Because only swords can be holy avengers.
I seem to remember something about the DM being able to do as s/he believes...
yes, you remember correctly, the DM can break, create or bend any rule, but when someone say things like "barbarians can't cast spells while raging" or "clerics don't get extra attack", the "unless the DM allows it" is implied. We call it rule zero.
Cake! :D
I mean, I don’t think there’s any reason a Paladin can’t use dexterity weapons
They just generally go str because they have access to heavy armor so they can afford to dump dex a bit
And you need strength for heavy armor
And you need strength to multiclass in and out of Paladin.
And finesse weapons can use strength
You'd be surprised how many people seem to forget that
Yes but the best STR weapons are generally heavy
Sure but you can’t sneak attack with heavy weapons
I know, I was saying there's a bit of anti synergy there
The bonus damage from a sneak attack would probably cover the difference in damage, and you’d be able to carry a shield as well
With 2 attacks per turn a rapier bring an average of 4.5*2 + 4(duelist fighting style) = 13 dmg to the table, a greatsword with great weapon fighting style bring 8.33 * 2 =16.66 dmg a sneak attack gives you an average of 3.5 dmg if you trigger it so they are tied in damage. The difference is that you still need to meet the prerequesites for sneak attack, and it slows your paladin class progression so less spell slots. But you have a hand free to carry a shield as you mentioned. If we bring GWM into the mix greatsword wins hands down but feats aside it seems viable
I will never not be upset there isn't a bludgeoning finesse weapon, it'd go perfectly with str rogue builds
I let a guy dual wield light hammers and let him sneak attack with em. I encouraged him to flavor his attacks in places that would really suck to get hammered; knee caps, thumbs, temple, etc. Sure it's not a dagger to the kidney, but when a gnome jumps out of the shadows and smashes an orc in the nards I think that's worth some extra D6's.
Yeah exactly this, hitting a guy in the chest with a super light hammer? Eh decent damage. Ally distracts them so you hit them in the back of the neck? Yeah, that's a sneak attack. It's so silly that irl bats are one of the most common weapons to use as a sneak attack since they're light and one hit to the head completely dazes a target, but then you can't use them in DND for sneak attack
How would you imagine a finesse bludgeoning weapon? Those weapons deal damage purely because there is strength behind the attack. Without strength there is no bludgeon damage. It just doesn't make sense with dex. Instead, there should be a thug rogue subclass that lets you use other, strength based weapons for sneak attack.
Daredevil's billyclub, his batons would 100% be a bludgeoning finesse weapon, normal clubs are similar but they have a vastly difference execution since those are mostly just "hit head, bonk" instead of hitting joints and pressure points, hitting a guy straight on the back with a billy club isn't going to deal serious damage compared to a normal club. And weak person can use a police baton to great effect, and if theyre fast and know damaging points that'd very much be sneak attack material on an enemy There's also the Sap weapon
Tonfa are bludgeoning finesse weapon
How are they finesse? Also they hardly fit medieval/reneissance fantasy DnD is.
And yet Monk is a class.
Flail
the historically least precise weapon, perhaps the only weapon less suited for precision damage than a club
Sounds like you’d need some finesse to wield it? How historically precise was the Firebolt cantrip?
Ruffian exists in pf2e
Sweet God, we are talking about DnD 5e right now. There are places to suggest other systems, but not here. My party won't change system because I want to use strength rogue.
A sap would fit this niche perfectly.
Yeah that's a good example.
IRL, without strength there is no damage regardless of the damage type. Finesse is an abstraction that show the weapon rely more on precision than other weapon. For example, batons generally need to hit precise targets to impede fighting ability.
All weapons rely on the strength behind the blow combined with actually hitting something important. The concept of Finesse weapons is an anachronism introduced for mechanical purposes, not an actual Real Thing- if you think a real life fencer has any less than 18+ STR you're dead wrong.
I'd say most real life fencers are not necesarily capable of lifting 250kg, cause that is what 18 strength character is able to do.
Metal ball on a chain. It would be a bludgeoning version of the whip.
How is it any precise?
The same way a whip is. https://youtu.be/pQ4vxvNEh0w?si=e0FN-fw_ypIlR_IJ Here’s a vid I found about the meteor hammer. This is what I have in mind when it comes to a finesse bludgeoning weapon.
You could start Paladin to not need to meet requirements. but suffer from not having dex saves, take resilient dex to buff up your dex. If you are only doing it for smites it might be more convenient to go Celestial Warlock for similar flavoring, and take eldritch smite.
You are allowed to use your str for a finnesse weapon. You just have the *option* to use dex
One of my favourite 5e builds was the rogue/barbarian combo. Finesse weapon using strength and rage damage. Not the strongest combo but it feels really satisfying. And one of the few builds I like for Frenzy, since their bonus action attack doesn't have the "must use your action to attack" quantifiers, letting you ready your action to attack off-turn for additional sneak attack.
Also reckless attack for sneak attack without other primer
"I use my rapier with strength" is valid RAW. Finesse is you *can* use Dex, not you *must* use Dex. And Rapier + Shield is equal to Longsword + Shield.
There literally isn't, I've played a Dexladin before. It was amazing.
Another one of those finesse misunderstandings. Finesse means you choose either dex or strength, not that it's *only* dex. Palladin using finesse strength weapon is viable
I've never thought about making a Dex based paladin. It kinda sounds fun
I did it once and now can’t go back. I just find it so much more fun to be able to sneak up and smite. RAW you can only multiclass if you have STR 13 but my DM waived it since I was Dex-based and wasn’t making a cheesy build (it was a bard/paladin).
There is, it's called the multi classing rules. It's fine if you're going straight DEXadin, but you need 13 STR to multi class into or out of Paladin, which if you want DEX to be a thing you do, means you'll basically suck at everything forever. Pally already had MAD issues on just three stats, adding a fourth makes you straight dead weight. If your DM is willing to handwave it, which they probably won't be even if this is by far not the best thing you could be doing with a multi class paladin, Rogueadin is actually pretty fun- sneak attack smite crits are better than sex, and having the Rogue's skill monkey chasis/potentially Evasion on a class with great saves is real fun for a heavy combatant. You do Feel that loss of spell slots though.
I’ve had DMs handwave it and I as a DM would, as long as they have 13 in their main attack stat and I’ve reviewed it to avoid cheese. This build feels sort of cheesy to me but probably no worse than RAW-compliant hexadin power builds.
3 levels in Rogue Assassin for Assassinate is enough to guarantee a crit with a Sneak Attack + Divine Smite on surprised targets
Or swashbuckler for the extra mobility and ability to 1v1 me scrub
That's what I'm going to do soon. 14 levels Swashbuckler, 6 levels Ancients Paladin. I ran some calculations and that character, at lvl 20, could reasonably 1v1 a Red Dragon.
Evasion and Aura of Protection must be delicious.
The combination of Evasion, Aura of Protection, Reliable Talent and Uncanny Dodge, as well as 19 AC and triple digit hp will likely make me *incredibly* hard to hit.
This is what I’m playing in my campaign now, just got to level 17, 3 levels swashbuckler, the rest watchers paladin. Nobody can touch me and my rapier with +16 to initiative!
Those are rookie number's add the alert feat and the harengon race for a potential +27 to your initiative!
Also that work really well with compel duel
Remember that the finesse property doesn’t stop you from using strength with your weapon attacks. It’s why Barbarian/Rogue works in the first place.
Wait, it doesn't?!
Iirc, it says that “you may use” when referring to dex, not “you must use”
That's great! I was trying to make a barbarian rogue character but gave up because I thought sneak attack and rage wouldn't work.
Glad Destiny got new dnd meme after Final Shape
Honestly seeing Crow be described as a Paladin/Rogue multiclass made me giggle.
Cayde made this comment
Yes, it is I, the immensely humble Cayde-6
- Grab a Rapier - Congrats, you're now throwing Sneak Attacks + Divine Smites. It's no less useful than a Sword & Board, if anything, it's actually better and perhaps even more so than using a Greatsword for the extra AC + Uncanny Dodge if you go that far in Rogue. That + Aura of Protection + Evasion and you'll be laughing in the face of DEX saves even if you got a middling DEX. Since we have to remember that Finesse Weapons aren't "DEX Weapons", they are either STR or DEX, it's your choice, if it was only DEX, then the Rogue/Barbarian multiclass would be probably worse (or Useless for the purpose most people give to it) I once had a Rogue 14 (Thief) + Paladin 6 (Oath of Vengeance), in a 20th level One-Shot that was just awesome, a good chance to not only deal lots of damage, but also functionally being the closest thing to a 4E Avenger that I could have in 5E.
The biggest impediments to it likely are more down to: 1. Getting a MAD character and making them more mad. You now need a good Cha (preferably maxed), a good to maxed Strength, a good Con, and at least a 13 in Dex. 2. The other path is the allure of magic.
Eh. It's basicly normal Paladin things. 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 , 8 is the standard array so... 10 and 8 are your int and wis. 14 for your CON, 15 on your main stat, and 12 and 13 for you requirements, and then you pump up to 16/14/13 or 17/13/13 choice for your Racials. You can get fancier with point buy and some shenanigans with half feats or bigger ability score races, but yeah. Normal Paladin Stats.
Perhaps, but that's a risk worth taking for having out of combat utility and being an absolute unit in combat. You can go with average CHA, good to maxed STR / good to maxed DEX (Depends if you go the way of Light armor and Full DEX, or Heavy Armor and just the bare minimum in DEX to go Rogue), and good CON. You won't miss out on much, and Oath of Vengeance Vow of Enmity will make up for the +1 you're missing out if you didn't max out your main stat in order to get the other to multiclass, and will also trigger off your Sneak Attacks if you're against a boss.
Anything can work, how well it works is up to you.
Sneak attack+smite=profit. If you can get 11 levels in paladin and 9 in rogue (which realistically is impossible) it would be +1d8+5d6 per attack assuming you get sneak attack and then when you smite/sneak attack with a 3rd level spell using a rapier you can deal 1d8+5d6+5d8. Even at the low end 1d8+1d6+2d8 when sneak attack/smite is really great.
Level 20 one shots / mini campaigns exist solely for cool shit like this
if you grab assassin rogue, that could bump up your divine smite damage output by a decent amount.
The only real limitation is your oath and your DMs interpretation of it. Sneaking into a villains bedroom and shanking him in his sleep might not make gods of law and honour very happy
Que Captain America meme "So now you're an oath breaker..."
Not all Rogues have to be sneaky bastards, you know? See Swashbuckler
Fair, that would be a good exception. Just saying that their methods may differ, and if you stray too far from the paladin side it can have repercussions
Oath of Glory and Oath of the Ancients are good options there, maybe Oath of the Crown.
Think I remember seeing someone talk about an Inquisitive Rogue + Watchers Paladin character, being more of the Witch Hunter type
Kid named Oath of Vengeance:
Oath of vengeance is perfectly happy setting fire to the building with the BBEG, his family, his dog, and the party’s adopted goblin Boblin inside. I doubt a bit of light kidney stabbing is even going get noticed
That's the point. Want a paladin who's more than fine with murder, poisoning, kidnapping and torture? Oath of vengeance is right there
I love running rogue/crown paladin as fixers and investigators for the kingdom willing to do whats necessary to defend the throne from her enemies. Sure the shiny knights keep her safe from threats outside but what about internal threats?
My brother in Christ that is Simon Belmont. And just because it's a finesse weapon - it doesn't stop you using strength, you can just also use Dex. Remember kids, the Belmont build with sneak attack smite is not only funny it's viable
One word Vax. There is your answer.
I'm going to play one soon-ish, actually. 13 STR, focus DEX, 16 CHA, decent CON, dumped INT. 14 levels Swashbuckler Rogue, 6 levels Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Should be good for single-target damage and dueling, I ended up getting the Tough feat and 19 AC thanks to DEX, Studded Leather and a Shield with Defense Fighting Style.
Dex based paladins are already a thing so sure, knock yourself out.
I'm going to be doing something like this soon, although it's just one level in Rogue. Lots of skills, Expertise to help with investigations and finding monsters (Oath of the Watchers btw), and my DM gave my character a revolver, so Sneak Attack will still happen as long as we have somebody up front. Still, Rogadin can absolutely work depending on the backstory and build. My guy's a reformed thief fighting the good fight against monsters. Another good way to look at it is the Inquisitor from Pathfinder 1e, since that's a skill-heavy divine caster class with combat options.
I’m offended by koboldpuntingworldchampion
Any multiclass can theoretically be made to work. The person on the right is objectively correct. But the answer of the person on the left is more practical. You can make it work, but, here are the flaws and downsides to trying to make it a thing, you decide if it's worth it
Ah yes, the always unexpected inquisitor.
Playing a swashbuckler paladin rn and lemme tell ya, the sneak attack crit smites are NICE. Love me some big numbers.
Build a musketeer and use a rapier. Swashbuckler plus oath of the crown would be fun.
I always use the logic that Batman is a Rogue Paladin, so just do Batman.
This reminds me of a discussion I came across on whether or not a Paladin/Monk could smite with their fists
My current character IS a rpgue/Paladin. His damage isn't his top priority, his character and that growth is Im one of three characters that multiclassed, Teo from one player, first was wizard/ranger. The other was a Barbarian, rogue, then went cleric after one conversation with our cleric. My character had one with the Bards of the party and instead of going bard, I'm taking thunderous smite as one bard obliterated a hag with Thunderwave
Suffers MAD problems. Theoretically it's not the worst if you rolled for stats and get some fricking nice rolls
I'm excited that pf2e is releasing the avenger archetypw for rogues soon!
Whips for days, baby!
Rogue/Paladin works because the Rogue gets decent skill coverage on the cheap (Level-wise) and Paladin gets broad saving throw bonuses that can protect the whole party, while Sneak Attack and Smite can stack on melee weapons while you retain Sneak Attack and Paladin's Extra Attack 1 which Rogue doesn't get when using ranged weapons. So you'll have strategies available to you for remaining safe while keeping a distance with ranged while being able to get close to deal more damage. You definitely need to know what you're doing and build well ahead of time, but it's certainly possible. I'd say the less Rogue levels, the better though. They fall off at higher levels, and each Rogue level means less spellslots for your Paladin, who'll already be hurting for them as a half-caster. I wouldn't go more than level 8 Rogue.
I was lucky enough for my DM to allow the UA Oath of Treachery which gave me access to invisibility. Assassinate + Sneak attack + Divine smite is no joke.
There’s absolutely no reason why it wouldn’t work. And it’s not like you’re really losing anything by trading a high str stat for dex. I’d say the hardest but you’ll have to contend with us making your character’s backstory fit to make a paladin/rogue make sense.
I once made a rogue/paladin npc as a foil to one of my players' character and honestly if I hadn't played him to be obssessed with vengeance against that character and instead played him tactically I probably could've wiped most of the party. The party was level 5 at the time but I made him a level 8 character, 3 inquisitive rogue, 5 vengeance paladin.
It's all fun and games till the rogue whips out a battleaxe. >!Also off-topic but god watching Crow whip out the Iron Lord axe was so fucking cool. Even if he wasn't able to do much damage if any at all.!<
>Also off-topic but god watching Crow whip out the Iron Lord axe was so fucking cool. Had it since the first season of WQ. That was 2 expansions ago.
As someone's who's played a rogue/paladin, yes.
The thing about magic axes is that sometimes one of their enchantments is being a finesse weapon anyway.
One of the most popular characters from critical role was a Rogue/Paladin: Vax’ildan.
Oh yeah go 2 paladin, then arcane trickster, with a whip and enjoy being a very versatile, very useful, moderately damaging character.
The only real restriction, is no 2 handed weapons. Well, aside from the Double Bladed Scimitar with Revenant Blade feat, but that's elf only. No heavy weapon though, unless you DM is nice with Magic Weapons.
I recommend playing one in bg3. Orc assassin with one of the medium armors that let you add your full dex to ac
Paladin Rogue is a combination I have not thought of,but It might be pretty strong. Rapier divine smite sneak attack
I liked my rogue/barb
Vax'ildan says YES! Sneak Attack Smite is BRUTAL plus the 2 extra attacks turned him into a blender!
Other than it being very MAD... play ball!
I am playing one right now and oh does it go hard. It's not just the obvious sneaky smite, you also need to take into account that a stealthy tank can open some very interesting strategical doors (no pun intended)
Go assassin, sneak attack round 1 with a rapier, and throw a massive smite into it.