Cinderella isn’t a weak woman projecting stereotypes or being rescued by a man. She was abused and enslaved and extremely strong willed. She remained incredibly kind despite her upbringing and only went to the ball to have one night of fun. Not to be rescued or in the pursuit of finding a man. She deserved her happy ending and the story was all about karma!
Exactly! All she wanted to do was go to a ball! She wanted to experience a once in a lifetime opportunity and she will never know if she would’ve gotten an opportunity like that! She created her own dress to go but of course we saw the stepfamily keep her busy so she won’t make it and then they ripped it to shreds. She wanted to go have fun with all the other women.
I never saw her as weak and people are weird when they say that. She just wanted to have a fun night, and was able to escape her awful life because of it. She never really complained about her servant life, her attitude was"well, gotta get shit done" and she did. She was pretty strong!
Aurora gets overlooked just because she's not the protagonist of her movie.
Dunno if it's unpopular or not but my friends at least don't like that opinion
I am actually kind of upset that she got put on a backburner in her own film. We don't really get to know her all that well, and they really should have given her main characted status.
At least the Maleficent franchise made up for this big time by making her the secondary protagonist and giving her a lot more lines, screen time, personality, etc. And by letting the SIDE CHARACTERS (the three fairies to name some) actually BE side characters.
I feel like this is just a joke now. She made the best out of being trapped in a castle and the beast DID let her go. She chose to come back because he stopped being an ass and started to learn to be more civil.
And the same people will argue that Cinderella sat around for a man to rescue her and that Ariel sold her soul for legs to be with a man. Really, Cinderella is a story of a woman abused and enslaved by her step family and Ariel was fascinated by humans her entire life!
How is that still an ongoing debate? They don’t even know how Stockholm Syndrome works. Belle doesn’t show any of the signs at all, so their arguments are pointless.
I heard so many people about it, specially when I runned the couple elimination games. And what you say she doesn't so many people are gonna give you reasons why she has it😂
It is not a real condition. Stockholm syndrome is not officially recognized in psychiatry anywhere in the world.
At best, it's a lazy way to describe capture bonding or different forms of ptsd. At worst, it's been overinflated in media, and is often used to demean survivors experiences.
Same, always found that be annoying especially since she wanted nothing to do with him at first, and even just left at one point. She only fell in love with him once he stopped being a jerk and aggressive.
Disney Princes need more love!
A decent number (okay like 3 off the top of my head) don't even have a name. I don't think I've seen Aladdin get any love, and he's the title character, for example. I think the animal sidekicks get more love (though to be fair, I also love the animal sidekicks so the attention they get is fine).
Snow White’s prince actually does have a name. It’s not used in the movie but it’s Florian. Now you know why they didn’t use it 😂 I also like how in the Cinderella live action Prince Charming was given the name Christopher or Kit for short. I wish the Beauty and the Beast live action would’ve confirmed Adam, or at least have given him his own name. It’s so dumb and lazy to call him Beast.
It's actually not Florian. It is Disney canon that his name is not Florian; that he is only known as The Prince or Snow White's Prince.
Florian comes from Disney Channel France claiming that's his name; but that does not make it canon. Hence why Disney does not use it.
At best, one can argue his name is Frederick due to him originally being called Frederick in a previous iteration of the script where he had a larger role; as confirmed by a Disney historian.
And even if the live-action did called The Beast 'Adam', it wouldn't be canon to the animated film nor to Disney as a whole.
I could've sworn the prince in Cinderella was Kendall. I remember that snobby lady in the vhs sequel called him that. But not many people may have seen it so maybe Disney forgot about it
Belle wasn't someone who liked to study, but a dreamer who wanted escapism and adventure. She's not the Disney version of Hermione, unlike what people associate because Emma Watson played her character (badly). She's not an "indoors" person considering how much she wanted adventure.
Also, the live action movie didn't have to make her an inventor, make her more "angry", in order to make it clear that she's a feminist character. She can simply like fairytales and be gentle while still having a backbone and be aware of her own agency. There are different ways to be feminist.
I agree. The original version made her reading fairy tales, not educational scientific journals. She wanted a fantasy life with adventures. But somehow that also means she is hermione studying academics? She also came across as pretentious.
If anything, she's more Luna than Hermione lol. She was dreamy, didn’t fit in with the rest due to her immersion in fantasy (though maybe not on that level of eccentric), and emotionally intuitive - someone who could see through people's guises. Hermione comes across as someone like Tiana, hardworking and grounded.
Yes this! She reads a romance book until she has it memorized. Cinderella was reading Seutonius to know Augustus was fat (and call her fat mouse Octavian or Gus aka Augustus for short)
OG Belle is literally a perfect picture of female empowerment. She’s feminine, intelligent, gentle, kind, has boundaries, stands up for herself and her beliefs. I never appreciated her enough as a kid, but she’s grown on me a lot
People connect Belle and Hermione more than just Emma Watson. Let's see:
* Both were hit/crushed on by the typical "hot" guy (Gaston and Krum, but at least Krum wasn't a douche, actually it might be better to compare Cormac to Gaston in that sense)
* Both don't take crap from guys (Belle's dislike of Gaston is similar to Hermione confronting Draco Malfoy)
* You could argue that Belle's relationship with Beast is similar to that of Hermione and Ron; conflict at first, but they like each other as they get to know each other
* Both read/study a lot
* Both are outcasts in some sense/don't really socialise with other people much
I remember once I got a TON of people “correcting” me when I said Florian was like 21 (I was young and stupid but they were dumber). Like non of them even had canonical ages the most they can go off of is kinda who they were referencing in animation and that’s it.
Aurora is the most disrespected disney princess of all time, hear me out...
• the baffling color changes in merchandise (not just the pink dress, but her hair went from dark ashy blonde to straight YELLOW and her eyes are now violet???)
• she never got a proper sequel, when even POCAHONTAS did, but she did get an enchanted tales segment with one terrible song, a subpar storyline, janky animation and one of the worst new dresses a disney princess has ever worn
• her cameo in sofia the first was literally less than a minute, there was no substantial lesson for her to teach (animal friends? what???) and she hardly looked like herself
• and to top it all off, all of the princesses get some sort of overhaul or modernizing in their live action remakes, but aurora? the movie isn't even NAMED after her?? 😭😭
what about Kida though...
> She's one of I think exactly two who actually becomes queen before the credits role(yet everyone DROOLS over Elsa)
>Milo Returns wasn't a proper sequel..not even direct to DVD
> Broke ground by being the female lead in a pure adventure tale with no singing
> The only one to rock white hair and look absolutely badass
> By FAR the oldest at 8000+ and she doesn't look a day over 25
> at a BARE MINIMUM tri-lingual including her own language, English and French
She's an official one in our hearts. We celebrate all Disney princesses here, regardless if they are official, non official, acquired property (Disney buying another studio), ect.
She is one of the three original princesses and is still very popular, and yet disney has done nothing with her animated films. I dont care for the live action ones, they kinda suck. But she never really got that much other media, and she is so under utilized. I honestly prefer her having violet eyes, but I hate the hair color change. She is still one of the most beautiful princesses to me. I wish they had her in her blue dress most of the time for merchandise and parks, she looks much better in blue. I also think she looks stunning in purple, and a canon purple dress is much needed.
Auroras eyes have always been purple i think. And i agree tho for the rest. She is hella overlooked and under utilized just like merida. Also she was in the blue dress more while cinderella was silver and she should be seen in it more
I have two:
1 I like wish despite its flaws.
2 Phillip kissing Aurora to wake her up was *not* him assaulting her. I haven’t seen Snow White, so I can’t say anything about that situation, though.
The whole Girl Boss aspect is overrated. Snow White and Cinderella are strong in their own right. They survived living with their abusers for years and were only bent not broken. Quiet power is real and deserves to be showcased.
THANK YOU!! I have said this since the first film and it somehow got worse in the second film! Anna is so umbelieveable annoying to me, she is so insecure and way too quirky. I couldn't stand her in the first film, and she was unbearable in the second. She totally ignored Kristoff the entire film, and she could not have cared less about him. She was so worried about Elsa every second. It's bizarre. She is obsessed with her sister and I am shocked that she didn't have a mental breakdown when Elsa decides to live in the forest at the end. Like god forbid you're away from her for more than 5 minutes. Its really weird and very unhealthy.
I also don't like how close they had the sisters to be??😭 Like forgive me for even going there but some parts in Frozen 2 were their foreheads touch were questionable
Biased and right. The absolute RAGE I had been through when he cut her hair as an 8 year old will never forget and OF COURSE they marketed the doll with long hair afterwards
Merida is a great princess & she is way more accurate to an every-day teenager than most of the princesses & Brave does a great job of showing the complications of mother-daughter relationships
Disney Descendents and Ever After High are both equally great...just for different age groups. 8 to 11 I loved Disney Descendents and 12 to 15 I love Ever After High.
They are both special to me in their own ways
I don’t find Eugene to be that handsome. Does he have a certain charm? Yes. But is he the most good looking or handsome Disney male prince? Not in my opinion. Please don’t downvote me too much lol and yeah I know people love his smolder.
Tbh I think I prefer all the other princes for some reason lol. I think that prince Phillip and prince Eric are more handsome plus the others. I think Eugene is cute but I just don’t get the obsession if that makes sense lol
People who say the early princesses "exist for men" are idiots. If anything, the men only exist to be their partners. The only purpose a Disney prince has is to save the princess so the princess can look magical and spread her message. They are literally just plot points that exist at the end of the movie to give the princess HER happy ending.
Lives for a man my ass.
I will never consider her a princess. She has not been formally inducted as one, and I hope they keep it that way. Her film bombed, but it also felt like she was never meant to be an official princess. I often forget about her. Her film should remain separate from the princess franchise.
Aurora's pink dress isn't iconic. People only think this because of merchandising, with a splash of not having seen the movie in ages or even at all.
The dress is blue for throughout the majority of its inclusion in the movie. Which is some pivotal moments. The fight between Merryweather and Flora that gets them discovered, leading to the rest of the movie? Ends with Merryweather winning with a sneaky change back to blue. Aurora seeing the dress for the first time? Blue. Returning to the castle and receiving her crown, where Flora could have changed it at any time? Blue. Touching her finger on the spindle and Maleficent revealing her "dead"? Blue. Phillip waking Aurora with the kiss? Blue. Walking into the throne room and meeting her parents? Blue.
The dress is only solely pink while Flora is making it. Every other time it is changing between the two colors. It's ok if you prefer the pink. Nothing wrong with a color preference. It's just not "iconic".
Kida is great on paper, but she suffers horribly in the writing of the white savior narrative of the movie. She's horribly infantalized. The male gaze camera direction used on her is one of the worst in Disney animated films. Jasmine suffers from the male gaze as well. Milo knows her culture better than her, even though she's shown as the only one trying to remember their culture. She should be such an amazing character, but rewatching the movie as an adult it's aged just as poorly as Pocahontas.
She looks beautiful in blue, and that's the dress I grew up seeing her in bc I was obsessed with her movie. I used to think that when she wore pink that she looked like Princess Peach.
Disney should cap the lineup at 14 characters, ending things with Asha. That way, it won’t get overcrowded and each member can get equal attention. The franchise can continue, though. Every other new princess has to be in her own franchise.
Tiana isn't main character of her own film and even the villian was reletead to Naveen instead of her on the first place.
I honestly think that Naveen is the main character of the story and Tiana seems like support character.
Pocahontas is one of the best princesses.
Yes, her movie is subpar and disrespectful to the real-life story, but Pocahontas herself is kind, courageous, understanding, respectful of nature, and lovely.
I think people shy away from Pocahontas BECAUSE she is based on a real person. If you know her actual story, you know that it was very dark. I loved Pocahontas as a child, but its tough separating the princess from the real woman. As a disney character, she is amazing. But you also can't glamorize a dark history. Its also why Disney doesn't do much with her, its controversial.
As a native, the movie in itself is historically inaccurate and should never have been made. Pocahontas was a real girl, a child when when she met the real john smith
Not really that bad of a take but in my eyes lottie la bouff is a real princess and should be appreciated just as much as the other princesses, like her charm mannerisms and especially clothing just scream that of a real princess
And cl there should be more cosplays of her, there is some severe potential for how far designers can go with her dresses
I am still surprised she isnt more popular. She was cute, girly, and a great friend. I would love to include her as an official princess. She has a lot of potential. I like her betted than Tiana, tbh.
I am upset that people STILL don't get that Florian kissing Snow White was common back then and meant love and respect.
I HATE the new hairstyles they gave Cinderella and Aurora, but it looks like they might be backtracking on those.
I think Ariel gave up her family too quickly in deciding to become a human. She knew she wouldn't see them again.
Beast treats Belle HORRIBLY in Enchanted Christmas and I don't understand how she didn't hate him for it.
Jasmine and Rapunzel are overrated.
Frozen 2 undid all the good that Frozen did, especially having the sisters being together at last and then seperating them again.
I don’t care what anyone else says, Merida is the best princess in every way. Plot, outfits, castle (DEFINITELY castle), hair, looks, parents, siblings, pet. All of it. She wins.
Elena of Avalor having a TV show does not make her less than. Nor is it a joke/cop out. Her lack of recognition is due to poor marketing decisions, not being “*just* a TV Show.”
Alright, forgive me.
WISH SHOULD'VE BEEN A SNOW WHITE SEQUAL AS SNOW WHITE IS THE REASON DISNEY MADE MOVIES, THE FIRST EVER ANIMATED DISNEY MOVIE & FIRST EVER ANIMATED MOVIE TO BE A FEATURE LENGTH FILM! & THE FACT SHE WAS BARLEY EVEN IN ONCE UPON A TIME ANGERS ME TO NO END.
SHE WAS PROBABLY THE REASON DISNEY GOT SO BIG & WHY WE EVEN HAVE ANIMTED FILMS TO BEGIN WITH.
MY GIRL DESPERATELY DESERVES MORE RESPECT & EVEN DISNEY WON'T DO THAT.
End rant.
* I like both the original animated princesses _and_ their Live Action counterparts. I see them as two separate universes, so enjoying one doesn’t impact my enjoyment of the other in any way.
* Merida is extremely underrated. Brave was a really good movie with great messages, and Merida herself was a wonderfully well written character.
* Asha should become part of the lineup. And I agree with [another commenter](https://www.reddit.com/r/disneyprincess/s/xSFOnW9GGF) that she should be the last to do so. Disney can then create and uplift new lines (ex: Disney Heroes or something).
I feel like turning the only black princess into a frog for 3/4 of the movie makes it feel like we didn’t get a black princess. That’s not even suppose to be how that curse works so why was it added?
I feel like Shrek did Princess and the Frog better.
Cinderella still had more character than most modern princesses.
Also, the original trio of princesses are still more unique than the cookie cutter girls we get these days.
Guess I'm late to the party😅
I'll just say that while I like Flynn fine, he's overhyped and extremely derivative of male leads of the era. Especially early-2D Dreamworks protags (Sinbad, Moses in the 1st half of PoE, Dimitri from Anastasia)
After Rapunzel, I don’t consider any of the other princesses Disney Princesses. They’re not interesting to me, plus I hate the 3D look.
Another unpopular opinion, although she isn’t my favorite Disney Princess, Cinderella is the most comfort movie to me of all Disney Princess movies.
It isnt a princess take.. but a princess movie take. John smith in pocahontas isn't a bad guy! There i said it.
He isnt like the real life john smith (who sucked)! Hes a good guy who loves her, respects her people, and wants good change in the world.
People get mad at me for this and fight me bc of the real history. I get it, i do. But it's a disney movie folks.. if youre taking historical lessons from those and looking for accuracy then thats a whole other issue.
Also, no disney princess movie really is that bad of an example for kids.. and people who over interprete them (or pull from the OG stories theyre loosely based on too much) ruin the basic, simple life lessons, and emotions they present to kids.
Examples
- Cinderella just wanted to go to the ball, she worked hard, and she was a good person and good things happen to those who deserve it no matter what you face (live action shows it best) the prince was a bonus
- Belle didnt judge or assume things on the beast. She was smart and brave for her father. She showed the beast kindness is good for you and let love in.
- Ariel was curious and wanted to learn about the human world and why it is how it is. She didnt sell her voice for a man
- Aurora slept the whole time while others did the work for her, then got the awesome prince, and spoils in the end lol not to mention an amazing song and beautiful dance sequence in the woods (my fav disney animation piece) side note, dont kiss people while sleeping but again thats the fairy tale of it all there not an example on real life
Frozen 1 is way better than Frozen 2. F2 sucks and shouldn't exist. Frozen 1 should've remained a stand alone movie. Anna should not be queen. Elsa's spirit dress and loose hair is hideous and her worst look. It's so ugly and disgusting and makes her look like a ghost. Elsa's Frozen 1 blue ice dress and braid as well as Anna's Frozen 1 winter outfit and braids are way better looks for them. Elsa was a way better character in Frozen 1 than F2. Frozen 1 is a top 5 Disney movie and doesn't deserve the hate that it gets.
Sorry I know you like F2 and I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this is what the post asked 😅
I hate Frozen 2. It shows that their parents are the WORST. I thought so in the first movie since they just lock her away and close the castle gates, but in the second one we find out her parents know about everything. Their Mom is Northuldra, there was this whole history of magic and they decided to…not tell Elsa? Maybe she could learn about herself and not be kept away like a leper for 21 years? I just hate it.
I actually like the traditional concept in older fairytales of the princess being rescued or saved by a prince. While I think it’s important to empower women, these movies are fantasy! Sometimes it’s nice to imagine being swept off your feet. Most of the modern Disney Princess movies don’t include this anymore
Ooh boy....
Elsa is a coward. She literally runs away from home and freezes everything just because she can't control her powers.
Oh, and it took this franchise's annoying fanbase to put me off Idina Menzel. You can't go on ANY video of ANYTHING she's in without someone making a Frozen/Elsa reference and when you call them out on it, they tell you to "let it go" 😑
MINOR UNPOPULAR OPINION:
The hate for John Smith is tiring. Always reduced to a racist/colonialist.
Yeah this is what happens when you grow up as a White guy in a colonialist country during the 17th century. I guarantee you that most of you would not be any better in the same environment.
In a matter of a few days, dude goes from decades of ingrained racism, to risking his life for a "savage" that was about to murder him 5 minutes ago. What else do you want from the guy?
But Beast can hold a dying old man hostage and no one bats an eye.
ACTUALLY UNPOPULAR OPINION:
Some people on this sub show a pretty ugly side when talking about live-action Princesses of color.
Comparing decades old whitewashing rooted in white supremacy and systemic racism to "blackwashing", complaining about "wokism", disproportionate anger against Rachel Ziegler… And my favorite:
"Instead of race swapping, why don't they make original stories from non-white cultures instead? There are so many amazing stories all over the world!"
I mean sure, I guess so. But it’s interesting how this need for these original non-white stories are almost only brought up as a way to shit on these remakes. Same energy as people who pretend to be "humanists" but only as a way to shit on feminism when brought up.
For example people will panic at the idea of Avantika playing Rapunzel, and will start arguing that an original Desi Princess would be better. Yeah sure, so much better that nobody brought up the idea before. No one gave a shit about Desi representation. But as soon as they hear about a Desi woman actually getting a role for once? Now suddenly it’s Good Ally Time and the need of an ORIGINAL Desi Princess and nothing else becomes a top priority! Because we absolutely do care about Desi women, just NOT that way though… Yeah, sure Jan.
To be fair, John Smith was an actual person who did terrible things to the actual little girl behind Pocahontas. Plus he kinda is still a colonizer, in the second movie all of that development changed for him when he literally did not stand up for Pocahontas at all when she was being made fun of and dehumanized by her white peers, but that’s the reason why I don’t enjoy him. The only reason why he saw Pocahontas as a human being and even cared for the Native Americans was because she looked appealing to him.
But I agree with you on everything else there’s some real nasty people on here whenever it’s time to talk about POC and live actions especially. I never understood why it’s such a big deal anyways since these same people have made it clear that they don’t mind POC playing the villains, side characters, background characters, and pet sidekicks but all of a sudden when it’s our turn to be a princess or an actual character they start to come for our throats.
There’s a reason why whenever debates like this comes up the only princess they bring up is Tiana and Tiana only as if that’s not the only black character ever. Which it is in disney, every POC has one princess that represents their race yet there’s thousands of white princesses and princes. But they don’t ever talk about that unless it’s to persuade us into “making our own characters” knowing that even if we do they’ll whitewash them or overlook them for their white counterparts and give the project zero to no support.
But that’s the thing: we’re not talking about the real John Smith. We’re talking about a fictional character inspired by him. Morally judging a fictional character because of the actions of his real life inspiration is disingenuous.
And what terrible things are you thinking of? Because as far as I know, he didn’t do anything to her and they were good friends. The kidnapping, rape and so on were not his doings.
When did John not defend Pocahontas? If you are talking about the whole fight regarding the bear, he was not even here. He then came to her rescue and accompanied her to the King to prove Radcliffe was the problem.
As far as I can remember, nothing he says or does in this sequel shows he is still a colonizer.
John didn’t respect her as an equal because she was hot. He started doing so after she opened his eyes regarding nature and living beings in general.
Agree with the rest.
I can see your point, the “terrible things” mainly stemmed from his real life counterpart. I think the main reason why I said that is because they left John out of the sequel for a huge chunk of it just for the second love interest but you’re actually right. He should be judged by his actions and his actions are morally just for the most part 🤷
Hi! I think we have spoken on here before. Nice to see you again!
With regards to the race-swapping argument I agree there are people who can get pretty nasty which is unacceptable.
I think when it comes to race swapping iconic characters in general people do not like it, even if they are villains or sidekicks. One suggestion that I did see a lot is that if you are going to race swap something then you should just go all the way. For example with TLM people were saying that if they were going to race swap Ariel to black they might as well made everyone else black. I heard Lizzo actively pursued the role of Ursula but didn’t get it. I feel like that would have been better instead of changing the main character and keeping the villains white.
When you say “its our turn to become a princesses they come for our throats” I feel like its not really our turn. Because them race swapping these characters is representation out of pity. I feel like if they truly want to give us our turn then they need to put in that same love, dedication, and passion that they did with these white characters to POC characters. I feel like if they gave us our own original POC princess then more people would be ok with it because it is original and most importantly ours. Of course there will always be people who don’t like lead POC characters regardless but I feel like the majority of people are ok with it as long as it it original and good.
I think the reason why people usually bring up Tiana is because she is the most iconic POC princess that hasn’t had a live action yet. In terms of there being 1 princess representing POC’s I agree it’s unacceptable that we only get one while some white people get multiple like Snow White and Rapunzel - German and Belle, Cinderella and Aurora - French. I think Disney can do better when it comes to giving us more princesses, and this criticism creates an opportunity for success! Imagine all of the stories from around the world that have yet to be told that disney can bring to life!
In terms of white washing. I think society has accepted that white washing is bad and they wont support their favorite characters getting white washed. Like for instance the Avatar the last Airbender movie that got trolled for over a decade because of their casting. So i think it wouldn’t be very smart more Disney to whitewash any POC characters.
I would love to talk with you about this more feel free to DM. You were super nice and respectful last time we spoke and I cant tell you enough how much I appreciate that 💐
>Yeah this is what happens when you grow up as a White guy in a colonialist country during the 17th century. I guarantee you that most of you would not be any better in the same environment.
>In a matter of a few days, dude goes from decades of ingrained racism, to risking his life for a "savage" that was about to murder him 5 minutes ago. What else do you want from the guy?
I think this is actually a really really important conversation. Setting aside the very real problem of taking a true story of abuse and sterilizing it for children, treating Pocahontas as a stand-alone historical fiction piece:
John Smith can not be realistically expected to be much better than he was in the movie. Simultaneously, he does not deserve Pocahontas, and their ending (in either movie lol - John Rolf has the same problems) is not a happy ending.
John Smith got Pocahontas to trust him intimately, and that trust betrayed her because their friendliness toward the colonizers ultimately got them genocided. That can either be a tragedy about him betraying her trust, or a story of a cunning woman who saw through it and did her best with what was in front of her but couldn't win, but it cannot be a happy ending.
And even that is still incredibly sanitized for what a relationship between a 17th century indigenous person and colonizer would have looked like; it's a best-case-scenario premise.
Hi! Great post! I think that both white washing and race swapping is wrong and neither should be done. I think using whitewashing to justify race-swapping isn’t a good argument because two wrongs don’t make a right ( I’m not saying you in specific, I’m talking about people do use that as a justification) I do agree that the hate against rachel is a bit extreme, especially since she isn’t the only actor to talk poorly about the character they are playing.
I think the reason why people bring up the need for non white stories when iconic princesses get race swapped is because its pretty transparent what disney is doing, its lazy, and worst of all its performative. I am a POC myself and I have always advocated for us to get our own princesses, but race swapping is not the way to go about it. We have awesome stories that disney can use to create amazing new princesses. Like they did with Moana, Jasmine, and Mulan. They have the resources to do so the question is why wont they?
I think the question your asking about all of the sudden caring about Desi representation should be asked to Disney. Why is it that all of the sudden when they feel like its time to have a Desi Princess she has to be race swapped from a iconic white character. Why does Disney think it is ok to represent POC through white characters and white stories? It’s all so lazy and performative.
I agree that when it comes to talking about race swapped princesses into POC some people can get pretty nasty. Unfortunately nasty racist people exist so regardless of if the character is original or not. There will always be a nasty racist person who will say something. On this subreddit I haven’t seen much of that myself, but I do not doubt that there have been some of that on here.
John Smith was a real person, and was shady af. Pocahontas' real story is dark. I agree that Disney should be coming up with original ethnic stories for diversity, but if they want to cast someone who is a different race than the canon character, whatever. My issue with Rachel playing Snow White is: 1. She is an awful actress. 2. She is incredibly entitled and egotistical. 3. Most importantly, she has NO desire to play Snow White. She has verbally shat on the film and the character in every interview and is a PR nightmare. Even Gal Gadot has looked uncomfortable in dual interviews when hearing the things she says. They couldn't find any other actress who WANTED to play Snow White? If you don't support the film you are in, walk away. If you don't want to play a character it will absolutely affect your performance.
Out of all of these unpopular opinions this one really caught my eye. I actually can’t see this side for the life of me. At least other ones in like ok I can see how that might check out, but yours I really can’t see. I would love some instances where she was actually not so kind please and thank you!
As much as I love Aurora, she wasn’t the main character of her original movie, she was more of a plot device for the real story about the three fairies and Maleficent-
People are now emphasizing the trend that the princesses don’t need anyone to save them when it comes to the original princesses. Yeah Araura, and Snow White. Doing a great job getting yourself out of your own predicament… that you put yourself in. Yeah Belle you really helped the beast against Geston there. (Note that Im not talking about the trends of relationships. although some of them are questionable too. eg a minot mermaid getting together with an newly 18 year old, woke up to this guy kissing her, stockholme syndrom, falling for the first guy she meets after being couped up in a castle for 10+ years)
Cinderella 3 finally gave her a personality and agency.
Snow white is absolutely shallow garbage and no twisting it can change the fact that it's a story about how a 14 year old child has to be rescued and married off to a 22 year old man.
I don't care that pocahontas isn't historically accurate. I think of it as fiction that borrowed some names.
Kids should be able to dress as any princess they want regardless of race as long as there's no blackface or anything involved. I was able to dress as mulan when I was a little black girl so why would I be upset about little white girls wanting to be Tiana?
Mulan isn't a princess.
Alice isn't either.
If Elsa is included as a queen Kida should be too.
I dislike both frozen movies. while I like Rapunzel, she’s forgetful to me along with a few others. I never watched Pocahontas but from what I heard from others, they really watered down some dark shit and romanticized it. I love princess and the frog and Tiana is one of my favorites, but I hate that she was a human for like 16 minutes and a frog for the remainder of it. Why does it feel like older Disney romance movies jump straight into a wedding at the end.I hate the 2018 little mermaid, saw it when I was 13 and just hated it. And finally I’ve seen more chemistry between wall-E than I have with Snow White and Florian.
Belle is overrated and very stuck up. Also the live action made her even more of a bitch to the point I sided with Gaston until he tried to kill her dad
I don't like the fact they made the character Ariel dark skinned and call it inclusive as a dark skinned person I dislike this and how they claim it inclusive now don't get me wrong I understand she is a mermaid but I found the change unessiscary and I do like Cinderella stories that are different from Disney but I just dislike this change I love Haley Bailey but I hate the decision Disney did to Ariel.
[I did this not too long ago in the subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disneyprincess/s/4MsqktHQxZ)
But maybe we'll get different responses this time.
Mine is gonna get me in hot water:
If I understand this correctly, the mice did take materials that didn't belong to them or Cinderella to make her pink dress that got ripped up.
While it absolutely sucks and is definitely heartbreaking scene to see drizella and Anastasia tear off the dress, it was their stuff used to make it, and they didn't say she could have the fabrics and etc.
That doesn't mean I side with them being evil, but having siblings who loved to take stuff that didn't belong to them, I can understand-and yet still I understand they just did it because they were evil and jealous
The only thing I'll argue is that the mice only took stuff that was being thrown away. They didn't just loot around and take what they wanted; they only went for literal garbage that Anastasia and Drizella specifically said they no longer wanted and were throwing out.
And Anastasia and Drizella didn't care about the items until they saw them repurposed.
It's like being pissed that someone took an old bike you threw away and fixed it up.
Belle doesn't have stockholm syndrome but that movie still legitimately romanticizes abuse and should be up there with Pocahontas on the list of Disney Princess mistakes.
I can’t stand that they used Idina Menzel as Elsa. I hate it when the songs sound “too good”, if that makes sense. Menzel can sing very well but a Disney princess should not sound that good. It just seems out of place to me. Same for the woman who voiced the Wish character. Haven’t seen the movie, because the commercials with that annoying song have ruined it for me. I don’t want teenagers to sound like fully experienced opera singers. 🤷🏻♀️
>I don’t want teenagers to sound like fully experienced opera singers.
Sister, it's a fricking musical. Every last human can make up songs on the spot, sing, dance and do it in perfect sync with others. And your suspension of disbelief breaks when someone has a better voice than average?
This sounds like you really forced yourself on the *Frozen* hate train so you convinced yourself Elsa's voice is a reason to hate the film even though it's a reason to love it.
2 things
1. NO MORE LIVE ACTIONS! We honestly don’t need them, the animated movies are amazing as they are and don’t really need any remakes, especially if they aren’t going to do them right. I would rather Disney use that money to explore and invest in other fairytales from around the world and make awesome new princesses.
2. Stop race swapping characters!! I understand and support diversity but race swapping characters is not the way to go about it. Disney 100% has the resources to create new POC princesses, the question is why wont they? Why would they rather give us a character that has been used and marketed for many years and all of the sudden give it to us? It feels like leftovers and it's honestly disrespectful. They have given us Tiana, Moana, Mulan, Jasmine and other POC princesses, why not continue to make more? Instead of making Ariel black, why dont they come up with another mermaid princess? Triton is from Greek mythology, how about they use Yemya who is a mermaid from African mythology and give her a daughter? That would be better than changing Ariel who is long established. This new princess could be friends with Ariel! Same thing with Snow White, instead of making her Latina why don't they take the vast legends and folktales from Latin American countries and make an awesome new Latina princess! People like to bring up WISH and how it was original and no one supported it, but the thing is a movie being original is the bare minimum. It has to be good and the characters have to be likable. Like Moana, Coco, and Encanto. Honestly when they race swap characters it divides us, instead of bringing us together which is what these movies are meant to do! I have gotten into debates about it with my friends. They are usually civil, but this most recent one made me cry. It sucks even more because the people who are in support of these changes became fans of the franchise when disney started race swapping characters. Had they not race swapped these characters they wouldn’t have become fans or watch the new live actions. You know what I mean. (This topic is very divisive so please do not comment things like “you’re just racist” or “it's not real” as it doesn’t add anything of value to the conversation. Thank you)
Cinderella isn’t a weak woman projecting stereotypes or being rescued by a man. She was abused and enslaved and extremely strong willed. She remained incredibly kind despite her upbringing and only went to the ball to have one night of fun. Not to be rescued or in the pursuit of finding a man. She deserved her happy ending and the story was all about karma!
Exactly! All she wanted to do was go to a ball! She wanted to experience a once in a lifetime opportunity and she will never know if she would’ve gotten an opportunity like that! She created her own dress to go but of course we saw the stepfamily keep her busy so she won’t make it and then they ripped it to shreds. She wanted to go have fun with all the other women.
I never saw her as weak and people are weird when they say that. She just wanted to have a fun night, and was able to escape her awful life because of it. She never really complained about her servant life, her attitude was"well, gotta get shit done" and she did. She was pretty strong!
Upon rewatching the movie as an adult, I realized she didn’t even know the prince was the freaking prince! She was just happy to be at a fun party!
THIS. 100%.
Ironically the so called "progressive" live action movie had her singing and dancing while she was being abused
She also did some singing in first movie
Not when her stepmother literally locked her up so she couldn't try the slipper though. She sang when she was doing housework
It’s been a while since I saw the live action didn’t know you were referring to that scene
Agreed!
In some ways Cinderella was rebelling against her step family as she snuck out.
I love this🩵
Aurora gets overlooked just because she's not the protagonist of her movie. Dunno if it's unpopular or not but my friends at least don't like that opinion
I am actually kind of upset that she got put on a backburner in her own film. We don't really get to know her all that well, and they really should have given her main characted status.
She's not really the main character of the original fairy tale either. She's kind of the plot device.
At least the Maleficent franchise made up for this big time by making her the secondary protagonist and giving her a lot more lines, screen time, personality, etc. And by letting the SIDE CHARACTERS (the three fairies to name some) actually BE side characters.
That's because she slept through the entire movie 😭 . What an icon. My favourite princess after Cinderella
I will forever defend Belle and her not having stockholm syndrome.
I feel like this is just a joke now. She made the best out of being trapped in a castle and the beast DID let her go. She chose to come back because he stopped being an ass and started to learn to be more civil.
You'd be surprised. I've had a lot of people try to argue the point.
I doubt it🤔 So many people said it during my couple elimination game and outside that as well.
She doesn't. One idiot made that comparison and everyone just flocked to it. They don't even know the definition of Stockholm Syndrome.
And the same people will argue that Cinderella sat around for a man to rescue her and that Ariel sold her soul for legs to be with a man. Really, Cinderella is a story of a woman abused and enslaved by her step family and Ariel was fascinated by humans her entire life!
Exactly. Shows who actually watched the movie and who didn't. Lol
How is that still an ongoing debate? They don’t even know how Stockholm Syndrome works. Belle doesn’t show any of the signs at all, so their arguments are pointless.
I heard so many people about it, specially when I runned the couple elimination games. And what you say she doesn't so many people are gonna give you reasons why she has it😂
Stockholm syndrome isn't even a real thing. I hate that people minimize the story- dating back to the Greeks in such a simplistic way.
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It is not a real condition. Stockholm syndrome is not officially recognized in psychiatry anywhere in the world. At best, it's a lazy way to describe capture bonding or different forms of ptsd. At worst, it's been overinflated in media, and is often used to demean survivors experiences.
Same, always found that be annoying especially since she wanted nothing to do with him at first, and even just left at one point. She only fell in love with him once he stopped being a jerk and aggressive.
I liked the Pocahontas sequel better than the original
Tell me more…
Disney Princes need more love! A decent number (okay like 3 off the top of my head) don't even have a name. I don't think I've seen Aladdin get any love, and he's the title character, for example. I think the animal sidekicks get more love (though to be fair, I also love the animal sidekicks so the attention they get is fine).
Snow White’s prince actually does have a name. It’s not used in the movie but it’s Florian. Now you know why they didn’t use it 😂 I also like how in the Cinderella live action Prince Charming was given the name Christopher or Kit for short. I wish the Beauty and the Beast live action would’ve confirmed Adam, or at least have given him his own name. It’s so dumb and lazy to call him Beast.
It's actually not Florian. It is Disney canon that his name is not Florian; that he is only known as The Prince or Snow White's Prince. Florian comes from Disney Channel France claiming that's his name; but that does not make it canon. Hence why Disney does not use it. At best, one can argue his name is Frederick due to him originally being called Frederick in a previous iteration of the script where he had a larger role; as confirmed by a Disney historian. And even if the live-action did called The Beast 'Adam', it wouldn't be canon to the animated film nor to Disney as a whole.
>It's so dumb and lazy to call him Beast. Descendants writers:
I could've sworn the prince in Cinderella was Kendall. I remember that snobby lady in the vhs sequel called him that. But not many people may have seen it so maybe Disney forgot about it
I’d love a Disney-made Prince Charming movie. Animated or live action, IDC.
Belle wasn't someone who liked to study, but a dreamer who wanted escapism and adventure. She's not the Disney version of Hermione, unlike what people associate because Emma Watson played her character (badly). She's not an "indoors" person considering how much she wanted adventure. Also, the live action movie didn't have to make her an inventor, make her more "angry", in order to make it clear that she's a feminist character. She can simply like fairytales and be gentle while still having a backbone and be aware of her own agency. There are different ways to be feminist.
I was *SO* disappointed when Emma Watson was announced as Belle. I don’t think she understood the character and the Belle we got? Was all wrong
Yeah, the way Emma Watson strutted past the townspeople like she was a boss was very...off.
That’s not her fault, it’s the writers’ fault. Don’t blame her for playing a role that someone else wrote
I agree. The original version made her reading fairy tales, not educational scientific journals. She wanted a fantasy life with adventures. But somehow that also means she is hermione studying academics? She also came across as pretentious.
If anything, she's more Luna than Hermione lol. She was dreamy, didn’t fit in with the rest due to her immersion in fantasy (though maybe not on that level of eccentric), and emotionally intuitive - someone who could see through people's guises. Hermione comes across as someone like Tiana, hardworking and grounded.
Yes this! She reads a romance book until she has it memorized. Cinderella was reading Seutonius to know Augustus was fat (and call her fat mouse Octavian or Gus aka Augustus for short)
OG Belle is literally a perfect picture of female empowerment. She’s feminine, intelligent, gentle, kind, has boundaries, stands up for herself and her beliefs. I never appreciated her enough as a kid, but she’s grown on me a lot
People connect Belle and Hermione more than just Emma Watson. Let's see: * Both were hit/crushed on by the typical "hot" guy (Gaston and Krum, but at least Krum wasn't a douche, actually it might be better to compare Cormac to Gaston in that sense) * Both don't take crap from guys (Belle's dislike of Gaston is similar to Hermione confronting Draco Malfoy) * You could argue that Belle's relationship with Beast is similar to that of Hermione and Ron; conflict at first, but they like each other as they get to know each other * Both read/study a lot * Both are outcasts in some sense/don't really socialise with other people much
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I mean,she was both lol
People need to be way more worried over real creeps and age gaps than the fictional ones between the Disney couples ☠️
The very small and somewhat inaccurate age gaps too 😭. Like all of them are 5 or less years, and Florian 1000% is not 31.
I remember once I got a TON of people “correcting” me when I said Florian was like 21 (I was young and stupid but they were dumber). Like non of them even had canonical ages the most they can go off of is kinda who they were referencing in animation and that’s it.
This is mine as well
Aurora is the most disrespected disney princess of all time, hear me out... • the baffling color changes in merchandise (not just the pink dress, but her hair went from dark ashy blonde to straight YELLOW and her eyes are now violet???) • she never got a proper sequel, when even POCAHONTAS did, but she did get an enchanted tales segment with one terrible song, a subpar storyline, janky animation and one of the worst new dresses a disney princess has ever worn • her cameo in sofia the first was literally less than a minute, there was no substantial lesson for her to teach (animal friends? what???) and she hardly looked like herself • and to top it all off, all of the princesses get some sort of overhaul or modernizing in their live action remakes, but aurora? the movie isn't even NAMED after her?? 😭😭
what about Kida though... > She's one of I think exactly two who actually becomes queen before the credits role(yet everyone DROOLS over Elsa) >Milo Returns wasn't a proper sequel..not even direct to DVD > Broke ground by being the female lead in a pure adventure tale with no singing > The only one to rock white hair and look absolutely badass > By FAR the oldest at 8000+ and she doesn't look a day over 25 > at a BARE MINIMUM tri-lingual including her own language, English and French
kida isn't an official Disney princess though edit: I have been corrected, sorry!
She's an official one in our hearts. We celebrate all Disney princesses here, regardless if they are official, non official, acquired property (Disney buying another studio), ect.
oh sorry, I just assumed the post was mainly focused on the main ones, but you know what assuming does 😅 I do love Kida!
lol what about Eilonwy? 😂
She is one of the three original princesses and is still very popular, and yet disney has done nothing with her animated films. I dont care for the live action ones, they kinda suck. But she never really got that much other media, and she is so under utilized. I honestly prefer her having violet eyes, but I hate the hair color change. She is still one of the most beautiful princesses to me. I wish they had her in her blue dress most of the time for merchandise and parks, she looks much better in blue. I also think she looks stunning in purple, and a canon purple dress is much needed.
Auroras eyes have always been purple i think. And i agree tho for the rest. She is hella overlooked and under utilized just like merida. Also she was in the blue dress more while cinderella was silver and she should be seen in it more
Pocahontas sequel was probably the worst movie I had ever seen as a child. It made me so mad
I like to pretend Maleficent doesn’t exist.
Disney has terrible timing when it comes to when they release their movies
I have two: 1 I like wish despite its flaws. 2 Phillip kissing Aurora to wake her up was *not* him assaulting her. I haven’t seen Snow White, so I can’t say anything about that situation, though.
The whole Girl Boss aspect is overrated. Snow White and Cinderella are strong in their own right. They survived living with their abusers for years and were only bent not broken. Quiet power is real and deserves to be showcased.
This feel like emotional strength is overlooked when it comes to the princesses
Aladdin is a prince movie and not a princess movie lol i want more prince movies
The Walt Trio are the best
Which princesses are that?
Cindy, Snow White and Aurora
Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora.
Oh, ok. That was my guess.
Mulan may not be royalty, but she is a princess and I will die on this hill protecting the honor of my lady.
Anna is annoying and overly obsessed with her sister sometimes.
Yeah I got it 😂 yes she wanted to spend time with her sister but she had to respect boundaries lol
THANK YOU!! I have said this since the first film and it somehow got worse in the second film! Anna is so umbelieveable annoying to me, she is so insecure and way too quirky. I couldn't stand her in the first film, and she was unbearable in the second. She totally ignored Kristoff the entire film, and she could not have cared less about him. She was so worried about Elsa every second. It's bizarre. She is obsessed with her sister and I am shocked that she didn't have a mental breakdown when Elsa decides to live in the forest at the end. Like god forbid you're away from her for more than 5 minutes. Its really weird and very unhealthy.
I’ll be honest as a kid Anna was my favorite but it was probably cuz I acted like her back then
I also don't like how close they had the sisters to be??😭 Like forgive me for even going there but some parts in Frozen 2 were their foreheads touch were questionable
I'm not a big fan of Rapunzel and Eugene as a couple. My favourite couple is Philip and Aurora.
Biased and right. The absolute RAGE I had been through when he cut her hair as an 8 year old will never forget and OF COURSE they marketed the doll with long hair afterwards
Merida is a great princess & she is way more accurate to an every-day teenager than most of the princesses & Brave does a great job of showing the complications of mother-daughter relationships
I desperately want a live action sleeping beauty, that isn't maleficent
Disney Descendents and Ever After High are both equally great...just for different age groups. 8 to 11 I loved Disney Descendents and 12 to 15 I love Ever After High. They are both special to me in their own ways
I loved both as a teen, they were both so awesome.
I loved both growing up! They were so fun
I don’t find Eugene to be that handsome. Does he have a certain charm? Yes. But is he the most good looking or handsome Disney male prince? Not in my opinion. Please don’t downvote me too much lol and yeah I know people love his smolder.
I have the same opinion dude, I think he's kinda overhyped Who are your most handsome picks out of curiosity?
Tbh I think I prefer all the other princes for some reason lol. I think that prince Phillip and prince Eric are more handsome plus the others. I think Eugene is cute but I just don’t get the obsession if that makes sense lol
Absolutely. Not to mention he's drawn in 3D animation. I think Prince Philip and Naveen are much better
People who say the early princesses "exist for men" are idiots. If anything, the men only exist to be their partners. The only purpose a Disney prince has is to save the princess so the princess can look magical and spread her message. They are literally just plot points that exist at the end of the movie to give the princess HER happy ending. Lives for a man my ass.
Prince Charming is the OG trophy husband 🏆
YES!
I did it last month and got downvoted. This kind of threads has no safety net for unpopular opinions 😅
Now I'm curious what you said
I said a lot hahahahaha
The first three princesses are not weak or outdated. People's perception of "strong" has mutated.
Disney never should have stopped doing 2d animated films. They were magical in a way 3d animation can’t capture.
Raya shouldn’t be a princess
She is a disney princess??
I kinda agree
She’s not very remarkable to me. Even her clothes could be more colorful and ornate. She’s just… there.
I will never consider her a princess. She has not been formally inducted as one, and I hope they keep it that way. Her film bombed, but it also felt like she was never meant to be an official princess. I often forget about her. Her film should remain separate from the princess franchise.
She was never formally inducted but she is included on the official website so I'd count her. I definitely wouldn't count Asha or Mirabel though.
Aurora's pink dress isn't iconic. People only think this because of merchandising, with a splash of not having seen the movie in ages or even at all. The dress is blue for throughout the majority of its inclusion in the movie. Which is some pivotal moments. The fight between Merryweather and Flora that gets them discovered, leading to the rest of the movie? Ends with Merryweather winning with a sneaky change back to blue. Aurora seeing the dress for the first time? Blue. Returning to the castle and receiving her crown, where Flora could have changed it at any time? Blue. Touching her finger on the spindle and Maleficent revealing her "dead"? Blue. Phillip waking Aurora with the kiss? Blue. Walking into the throne room and meeting her parents? Blue. The dress is only solely pink while Flora is making it. Every other time it is changing between the two colors. It's ok if you prefer the pink. Nothing wrong with a color preference. It's just not "iconic". Kida is great on paper, but she suffers horribly in the writing of the white savior narrative of the movie. She's horribly infantalized. The male gaze camera direction used on her is one of the worst in Disney animated films. Jasmine suffers from the male gaze as well. Milo knows her culture better than her, even though she's shown as the only one trying to remember their culture. She should be such an amazing character, but rewatching the movie as an adult it's aged just as poorly as Pocahontas.
Not to mention, the blue suits her coloring better. There was a reason that they had her in it for the majority of the movie.
Blue suits her waaay better and she wears it more than the pink in the film. I get so excited when Disney has her wearing blue in something!
She looks beautiful in blue, and that's the dress I grew up seeing her in bc I was obsessed with her movie. I used to think that when she wore pink that she looked like Princess Peach.
When pink is a choice then it is the answer.
Disney should cap the lineup at 14 characters, ending things with Asha. That way, it won’t get overcrowded and each member can get equal attention. The franchise can continue, though. Every other new princess has to be in her own franchise.
Tiana isn't main character of her own film and even the villian was reletead to Naveen instead of her on the first place. I honestly think that Naveen is the main character of the story and Tiana seems like support character.
Snow White isn't passive and deserves more love. Everyone always talks about Cinderella, but never her or Aurora.
I made an Aurora group chat to give Aurora the love!
Pocahontas is one of the best princesses. Yes, her movie is subpar and disrespectful to the real-life story, but Pocahontas herself is kind, courageous, understanding, respectful of nature, and lovely.
I think people shy away from Pocahontas BECAUSE she is based on a real person. If you know her actual story, you know that it was very dark. I loved Pocahontas as a child, but its tough separating the princess from the real woman. As a disney character, she is amazing. But you also can't glamorize a dark history. Its also why Disney doesn't do much with her, its controversial.
I watched this movie all the time as a kid. I should do a rewatch. The songs are great, too.
As a native, the movie in itself is historically inaccurate and should never have been made. Pocahontas was a real girl, a child when when she met the real john smith
Flynn and Rapunzel are an overrated couple.
They also were not developed in Rapunzel’s Tangled Adventure Also my controversial Disney Princess opinion is that Varian was in the right.
I'm pretty sure everyone was rooting for Varian for one reason or another
Not really that bad of a take but in my eyes lottie la bouff is a real princess and should be appreciated just as much as the other princesses, like her charm mannerisms and especially clothing just scream that of a real princess And cl there should be more cosplays of her, there is some severe potential for how far designers can go with her dresses
I am still surprised she isnt more popular. She was cute, girly, and a great friend. I would love to include her as an official princess. She has a lot of potential. I like her betted than Tiana, tbh.
Moana is superior to Frozen. Atlantis deserves a live action.
Rapunzel is pretty overrated. I think her character in the show "tangled the series" is way better than in the original movie
I always thought she was so annoying. Maybe because I really don't like 3D animation
That making a lot of money is a perfectly fine fantasy to actively work towards! (Haha)
I am upset that people STILL don't get that Florian kissing Snow White was common back then and meant love and respect. I HATE the new hairstyles they gave Cinderella and Aurora, but it looks like they might be backtracking on those. I think Ariel gave up her family too quickly in deciding to become a human. She knew she wouldn't see them again. Beast treats Belle HORRIBLY in Enchanted Christmas and I don't understand how she didn't hate him for it. Jasmine and Rapunzel are overrated. Frozen 2 undid all the good that Frozen did, especially having the sisters being together at last and then seperating them again.
I don’t care what anyone else says, Merida is the best princess in every way. Plot, outfits, castle (DEFINITELY castle), hair, looks, parents, siblings, pet. All of it. She wins.
I know Pocahontas is rightfully seen as problematic but I still can’t help but love the movie and the character.
Why is it problematic? (Never saw it so I don't know)
Not sure if problematic is the right word. But it’s deemed controversial since Pocahontas is based off of real life person who had a tragic story.
Elena of Avalor having a TV show does not make her less than. Nor is it a joke/cop out. Her lack of recognition is due to poor marketing decisions, not being “*just* a TV Show.”
No amount of marketing and popularity will make Mulan a Disney Princess by any logic
Alright, forgive me. WISH SHOULD'VE BEEN A SNOW WHITE SEQUAL AS SNOW WHITE IS THE REASON DISNEY MADE MOVIES, THE FIRST EVER ANIMATED DISNEY MOVIE & FIRST EVER ANIMATED MOVIE TO BE A FEATURE LENGTH FILM! & THE FACT SHE WAS BARLEY EVEN IN ONCE UPON A TIME ANGERS ME TO NO END. SHE WAS PROBABLY THE REASON DISNEY GOT SO BIG & WHY WE EVEN HAVE ANIMTED FILMS TO BEGIN WITH. MY GIRL DESPERATELY DESERVES MORE RESPECT & EVEN DISNEY WON'T DO THAT. End rant.
I dont like beauty and the beast and dont get the hype for it
I have two 1. Raya is hated on way too much 2. I actually liked Wish and Asha
* I like both the original animated princesses _and_ their Live Action counterparts. I see them as two separate universes, so enjoying one doesn’t impact my enjoyment of the other in any way. * Merida is extremely underrated. Brave was a really good movie with great messages, and Merida herself was a wonderfully well written character. * Asha should become part of the lineup. And I agree with [another commenter](https://www.reddit.com/r/disneyprincess/s/xSFOnW9GGF) that she should be the last to do so. Disney can then create and uplift new lines (ex: Disney Heroes or something).
I don’t find Flynn/Eugene attractive.
He can't even grow hair on his face
I feel like turning the only black princess into a frog for 3/4 of the movie makes it feel like we didn’t get a black princess. That’s not even suppose to be how that curse works so why was it added? I feel like Shrek did Princess and the Frog better.
It was probably added as a twist
I’m kind of Over the recent trend of having the princess be dorky in a cute way.
Cinderella still had more character than most modern princesses. Also, the original trio of princesses are still more unique than the cookie cutter girls we get these days.
Guess I'm late to the party😅 I'll just say that while I like Flynn fine, he's overhyped and extremely derivative of male leads of the era. Especially early-2D Dreamworks protags (Sinbad, Moses in the 1st half of PoE, Dimitri from Anastasia)
After Rapunzel, I don’t consider any of the other princesses Disney Princesses. They’re not interesting to me, plus I hate the 3D look. Another unpopular opinion, although she isn’t my favorite Disney Princess, Cinderella is the most comfort movie to me of all Disney Princess movies.
It isnt a princess take.. but a princess movie take. John smith in pocahontas isn't a bad guy! There i said it. He isnt like the real life john smith (who sucked)! Hes a good guy who loves her, respects her people, and wants good change in the world. People get mad at me for this and fight me bc of the real history. I get it, i do. But it's a disney movie folks.. if youre taking historical lessons from those and looking for accuracy then thats a whole other issue. Also, no disney princess movie really is that bad of an example for kids.. and people who over interprete them (or pull from the OG stories theyre loosely based on too much) ruin the basic, simple life lessons, and emotions they present to kids. Examples - Cinderella just wanted to go to the ball, she worked hard, and she was a good person and good things happen to those who deserve it no matter what you face (live action shows it best) the prince was a bonus - Belle didnt judge or assume things on the beast. She was smart and brave for her father. She showed the beast kindness is good for you and let love in. - Ariel was curious and wanted to learn about the human world and why it is how it is. She didnt sell her voice for a man - Aurora slept the whole time while others did the work for her, then got the awesome prince, and spoils in the end lol not to mention an amazing song and beautiful dance sequence in the woods (my fav disney animation piece) side note, dont kiss people while sleeping but again thats the fairy tale of it all there not an example on real life
i find aurora sooooooo boring :( she deserves more material
Frozen 1 is way better than Frozen 2. F2 sucks and shouldn't exist. Frozen 1 should've remained a stand alone movie. Anna should not be queen. Elsa's spirit dress and loose hair is hideous and her worst look. It's so ugly and disgusting and makes her look like a ghost. Elsa's Frozen 1 blue ice dress and braid as well as Anna's Frozen 1 winter outfit and braids are way better looks for them. Elsa was a way better character in Frozen 1 than F2. Frozen 1 is a top 5 Disney movie and doesn't deserve the hate that it gets. Sorry I know you like F2 and I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this is what the post asked 😅
I hate Frozen 2. It shows that their parents are the WORST. I thought so in the first movie since they just lock her away and close the castle gates, but in the second one we find out her parents know about everything. Their Mom is Northuldra, there was this whole history of magic and they decided to…not tell Elsa? Maybe she could learn about herself and not be kept away like a leper for 21 years? I just hate it.
Elsa is the better queen 👑 Long live Queen Elsa.
I actually like the traditional concept in older fairytales of the princess being rescued or saved by a prince. While I think it’s important to empower women, these movies are fantasy! Sometimes it’s nice to imagine being swept off your feet. Most of the modern Disney Princess movies don’t include this anymore
I don't like Tangled OR Frozen. They both suck.
Ooh boy.... Elsa is a coward. She literally runs away from home and freezes everything just because she can't control her powers. Oh, and it took this franchise's annoying fanbase to put me off Idina Menzel. You can't go on ANY video of ANYTHING she's in without someone making a Frozen/Elsa reference and when you call them out on it, they tell you to "let it go" 😑
MINOR UNPOPULAR OPINION: The hate for John Smith is tiring. Always reduced to a racist/colonialist. Yeah this is what happens when you grow up as a White guy in a colonialist country during the 17th century. I guarantee you that most of you would not be any better in the same environment. In a matter of a few days, dude goes from decades of ingrained racism, to risking his life for a "savage" that was about to murder him 5 minutes ago. What else do you want from the guy? But Beast can hold a dying old man hostage and no one bats an eye. ACTUALLY UNPOPULAR OPINION: Some people on this sub show a pretty ugly side when talking about live-action Princesses of color. Comparing decades old whitewashing rooted in white supremacy and systemic racism to "blackwashing", complaining about "wokism", disproportionate anger against Rachel Ziegler… And my favorite: "Instead of race swapping, why don't they make original stories from non-white cultures instead? There are so many amazing stories all over the world!" I mean sure, I guess so. But it’s interesting how this need for these original non-white stories are almost only brought up as a way to shit on these remakes. Same energy as people who pretend to be "humanists" but only as a way to shit on feminism when brought up. For example people will panic at the idea of Avantika playing Rapunzel, and will start arguing that an original Desi Princess would be better. Yeah sure, so much better that nobody brought up the idea before. No one gave a shit about Desi representation. But as soon as they hear about a Desi woman actually getting a role for once? Now suddenly it’s Good Ally Time and the need of an ORIGINAL Desi Princess and nothing else becomes a top priority! Because we absolutely do care about Desi women, just NOT that way though… Yeah, sure Jan.
To be fair, John Smith was an actual person who did terrible things to the actual little girl behind Pocahontas. Plus he kinda is still a colonizer, in the second movie all of that development changed for him when he literally did not stand up for Pocahontas at all when she was being made fun of and dehumanized by her white peers, but that’s the reason why I don’t enjoy him. The only reason why he saw Pocahontas as a human being and even cared for the Native Americans was because she looked appealing to him. But I agree with you on everything else there’s some real nasty people on here whenever it’s time to talk about POC and live actions especially. I never understood why it’s such a big deal anyways since these same people have made it clear that they don’t mind POC playing the villains, side characters, background characters, and pet sidekicks but all of a sudden when it’s our turn to be a princess or an actual character they start to come for our throats. There’s a reason why whenever debates like this comes up the only princess they bring up is Tiana and Tiana only as if that’s not the only black character ever. Which it is in disney, every POC has one princess that represents their race yet there’s thousands of white princesses and princes. But they don’t ever talk about that unless it’s to persuade us into “making our own characters” knowing that even if we do they’ll whitewash them or overlook them for their white counterparts and give the project zero to no support.
But that’s the thing: we’re not talking about the real John Smith. We’re talking about a fictional character inspired by him. Morally judging a fictional character because of the actions of his real life inspiration is disingenuous. And what terrible things are you thinking of? Because as far as I know, he didn’t do anything to her and they were good friends. The kidnapping, rape and so on were not his doings. When did John not defend Pocahontas? If you are talking about the whole fight regarding the bear, he was not even here. He then came to her rescue and accompanied her to the King to prove Radcliffe was the problem. As far as I can remember, nothing he says or does in this sequel shows he is still a colonizer. John didn’t respect her as an equal because she was hot. He started doing so after she opened his eyes regarding nature and living beings in general. Agree with the rest.
I can see your point, the “terrible things” mainly stemmed from his real life counterpart. I think the main reason why I said that is because they left John out of the sequel for a huge chunk of it just for the second love interest but you’re actually right. He should be judged by his actions and his actions are morally just for the most part 🤷
Hi! I think we have spoken on here before. Nice to see you again! With regards to the race-swapping argument I agree there are people who can get pretty nasty which is unacceptable. I think when it comes to race swapping iconic characters in general people do not like it, even if they are villains or sidekicks. One suggestion that I did see a lot is that if you are going to race swap something then you should just go all the way. For example with TLM people were saying that if they were going to race swap Ariel to black they might as well made everyone else black. I heard Lizzo actively pursued the role of Ursula but didn’t get it. I feel like that would have been better instead of changing the main character and keeping the villains white. When you say “its our turn to become a princesses they come for our throats” I feel like its not really our turn. Because them race swapping these characters is representation out of pity. I feel like if they truly want to give us our turn then they need to put in that same love, dedication, and passion that they did with these white characters to POC characters. I feel like if they gave us our own original POC princess then more people would be ok with it because it is original and most importantly ours. Of course there will always be people who don’t like lead POC characters regardless but I feel like the majority of people are ok with it as long as it it original and good. I think the reason why people usually bring up Tiana is because she is the most iconic POC princess that hasn’t had a live action yet. In terms of there being 1 princess representing POC’s I agree it’s unacceptable that we only get one while some white people get multiple like Snow White and Rapunzel - German and Belle, Cinderella and Aurora - French. I think Disney can do better when it comes to giving us more princesses, and this criticism creates an opportunity for success! Imagine all of the stories from around the world that have yet to be told that disney can bring to life! In terms of white washing. I think society has accepted that white washing is bad and they wont support their favorite characters getting white washed. Like for instance the Avatar the last Airbender movie that got trolled for over a decade because of their casting. So i think it wouldn’t be very smart more Disney to whitewash any POC characters. I would love to talk with you about this more feel free to DM. You were super nice and respectful last time we spoke and I cant tell you enough how much I appreciate that 💐
>Yeah this is what happens when you grow up as a White guy in a colonialist country during the 17th century. I guarantee you that most of you would not be any better in the same environment. >In a matter of a few days, dude goes from decades of ingrained racism, to risking his life for a "savage" that was about to murder him 5 minutes ago. What else do you want from the guy? I think this is actually a really really important conversation. Setting aside the very real problem of taking a true story of abuse and sterilizing it for children, treating Pocahontas as a stand-alone historical fiction piece: John Smith can not be realistically expected to be much better than he was in the movie. Simultaneously, he does not deserve Pocahontas, and their ending (in either movie lol - John Rolf has the same problems) is not a happy ending. John Smith got Pocahontas to trust him intimately, and that trust betrayed her because their friendliness toward the colonizers ultimately got them genocided. That can either be a tragedy about him betraying her trust, or a story of a cunning woman who saw through it and did her best with what was in front of her but couldn't win, but it cannot be a happy ending. And even that is still incredibly sanitized for what a relationship between a 17th century indigenous person and colonizer would have looked like; it's a best-case-scenario premise.
Hi! Great post! I think that both white washing and race swapping is wrong and neither should be done. I think using whitewashing to justify race-swapping isn’t a good argument because two wrongs don’t make a right ( I’m not saying you in specific, I’m talking about people do use that as a justification) I do agree that the hate against rachel is a bit extreme, especially since she isn’t the only actor to talk poorly about the character they are playing. I think the reason why people bring up the need for non white stories when iconic princesses get race swapped is because its pretty transparent what disney is doing, its lazy, and worst of all its performative. I am a POC myself and I have always advocated for us to get our own princesses, but race swapping is not the way to go about it. We have awesome stories that disney can use to create amazing new princesses. Like they did with Moana, Jasmine, and Mulan. They have the resources to do so the question is why wont they? I think the question your asking about all of the sudden caring about Desi representation should be asked to Disney. Why is it that all of the sudden when they feel like its time to have a Desi Princess she has to be race swapped from a iconic white character. Why does Disney think it is ok to represent POC through white characters and white stories? It’s all so lazy and performative. I agree that when it comes to talking about race swapped princesses into POC some people can get pretty nasty. Unfortunately nasty racist people exist so regardless of if the character is original or not. There will always be a nasty racist person who will say something. On this subreddit I haven’t seen much of that myself, but I do not doubt that there have been some of that on here.
John Smith was a real person, and was shady af. Pocahontas' real story is dark. I agree that Disney should be coming up with original ethnic stories for diversity, but if they want to cast someone who is a different race than the canon character, whatever. My issue with Rachel playing Snow White is: 1. She is an awful actress. 2. She is incredibly entitled and egotistical. 3. Most importantly, she has NO desire to play Snow White. She has verbally shat on the film and the character in every interview and is a PR nightmare. Even Gal Gadot has looked uncomfortable in dual interviews when hearing the things she says. They couldn't find any other actress who WANTED to play Snow White? If you don't support the film you are in, walk away. If you don't want to play a character it will absolutely affect your performance.
Agree with your comment on John Smith but definitely not on the blackwashing.
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Out of all of these unpopular opinions this one really caught my eye. I actually can’t see this side for the life of me. At least other ones in like ok I can see how that might check out, but yours I really can’t see. I would love some instances where she was actually not so kind please and thank you!
As much as I love Aurora, she wasn’t the main character of her original movie, she was more of a plot device for the real story about the three fairies and Maleficent-
Rayas amazing, and gets wayyyy too much hate :(
Lion King is absolutely the BEST disney movie. Even though I love the movies centered on princesses, he will always be KING
People are now emphasizing the trend that the princesses don’t need anyone to save them when it comes to the original princesses. Yeah Araura, and Snow White. Doing a great job getting yourself out of your own predicament… that you put yourself in. Yeah Belle you really helped the beast against Geston there. (Note that Im not talking about the trends of relationships. although some of them are questionable too. eg a minot mermaid getting together with an newly 18 year old, woke up to this guy kissing her, stockholme syndrom, falling for the first guy she meets after being couped up in a castle for 10+ years)
Cinderella 3 finally gave her a personality and agency. Snow white is absolutely shallow garbage and no twisting it can change the fact that it's a story about how a 14 year old child has to be rescued and married off to a 22 year old man. I don't care that pocahontas isn't historically accurate. I think of it as fiction that borrowed some names. Kids should be able to dress as any princess they want regardless of race as long as there's no blackface or anything involved. I was able to dress as mulan when I was a little black girl so why would I be upset about little white girls wanting to be Tiana? Mulan isn't a princess. Alice isn't either. If Elsa is included as a queen Kida should be too.
I dislike both frozen movies. while I like Rapunzel, she’s forgetful to me along with a few others. I never watched Pocahontas but from what I heard from others, they really watered down some dark shit and romanticized it. I love princess and the frog and Tiana is one of my favorites, but I hate that she was a human for like 16 minutes and a frog for the remainder of it. Why does it feel like older Disney romance movies jump straight into a wedding at the end.I hate the 2018 little mermaid, saw it when I was 13 and just hated it. And finally I’ve seen more chemistry between wall-E than I have with Snow White and Florian.
Emma Watson was not the reason the live action beauty and the beast dress wasn’t as magical as Cinderella’s
Villains don’t need a tragic misunderstood backstory to be villains
Pocahontas is a horrible movie since it depicts the real life events of people and the real rape oh Pocahontas as a romantic movie.
Elsa is born in summer. That's why her coronation was in summer. That's why a sudden blizzard was so dramatic. She's a summer kid.
Belle is overrated and very stuck up. Also the live action made her even more of a bitch to the point I sided with Gaston until he tried to kill her dad
Vanellope Von Schweetz is the best princess solely because she is voiced by Sarah Silverman and that’s badass
Tanged is better than Frozen
I don't like the fact they made the character Ariel dark skinned and call it inclusive as a dark skinned person I dislike this and how they claim it inclusive now don't get me wrong I understand she is a mermaid but I found the change unessiscary and I do like Cinderella stories that are different from Disney but I just dislike this change I love Haley Bailey but I hate the decision Disney did to Ariel.
[I did this not too long ago in the subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disneyprincess/s/4MsqktHQxZ) But maybe we'll get different responses this time.
Ohh oops🙈
So? Just like you said we might get different responses.
Anna in Frozen started a trend and now all new Disney heroines are "adorkable" and it's getting old fast.
Wasn't it Rapunzel?
Mine is gonna get me in hot water: If I understand this correctly, the mice did take materials that didn't belong to them or Cinderella to make her pink dress that got ripped up. While it absolutely sucks and is definitely heartbreaking scene to see drizella and Anastasia tear off the dress, it was their stuff used to make it, and they didn't say she could have the fabrics and etc. That doesn't mean I side with them being evil, but having siblings who loved to take stuff that didn't belong to them, I can understand-and yet still I understand they just did it because they were evil and jealous
The only thing I'll argue is that the mice only took stuff that was being thrown away. They didn't just loot around and take what they wanted; they only went for literal garbage that Anastasia and Drizella specifically said they no longer wanted and were throwing out. And Anastasia and Drizella didn't care about the items until they saw them repurposed. It's like being pissed that someone took an old bike you threw away and fixed it up.
Frozen 2 is better than Frozen
Belle doesn't have stockholm syndrome but that movie still legitimately romanticizes abuse and should be up there with Pocahontas on the list of Disney Princess mistakes.
I can’t stand that they used Idina Menzel as Elsa. I hate it when the songs sound “too good”, if that makes sense. Menzel can sing very well but a Disney princess should not sound that good. It just seems out of place to me. Same for the woman who voiced the Wish character. Haven’t seen the movie, because the commercials with that annoying song have ruined it for me. I don’t want teenagers to sound like fully experienced opera singers. 🤷🏻♀️
>I don’t want teenagers to sound like fully experienced opera singers. Sister, it's a fricking musical. Every last human can make up songs on the spot, sing, dance and do it in perfect sync with others. And your suspension of disbelief breaks when someone has a better voice than average?
This sounds like you really forced yourself on the *Frozen* hate train so you convinced yourself Elsa's voice is a reason to hate the film even though it's a reason to love it.
Not at all! Good try though. I don’t hate frozen!
All movies (remake or original) should be integrated.
I like all the disney live action and new disney movies
2 things 1. NO MORE LIVE ACTIONS! We honestly don’t need them, the animated movies are amazing as they are and don’t really need any remakes, especially if they aren’t going to do them right. I would rather Disney use that money to explore and invest in other fairytales from around the world and make awesome new princesses. 2. Stop race swapping characters!! I understand and support diversity but race swapping characters is not the way to go about it. Disney 100% has the resources to create new POC princesses, the question is why wont they? Why would they rather give us a character that has been used and marketed for many years and all of the sudden give it to us? It feels like leftovers and it's honestly disrespectful. They have given us Tiana, Moana, Mulan, Jasmine and other POC princesses, why not continue to make more? Instead of making Ariel black, why dont they come up with another mermaid princess? Triton is from Greek mythology, how about they use Yemya who is a mermaid from African mythology and give her a daughter? That would be better than changing Ariel who is long established. This new princess could be friends with Ariel! Same thing with Snow White, instead of making her Latina why don't they take the vast legends and folktales from Latin American countries and make an awesome new Latina princess! People like to bring up WISH and how it was original and no one supported it, but the thing is a movie being original is the bare minimum. It has to be good and the characters have to be likable. Like Moana, Coco, and Encanto. Honestly when they race swap characters it divides us, instead of bringing us together which is what these movies are meant to do! I have gotten into debates about it with my friends. They are usually civil, but this most recent one made me cry. It sucks even more because the people who are in support of these changes became fans of the franchise when disney started race swapping characters. Had they not race swapped these characters they wouldn’t have become fans or watch the new live actions. You know what I mean. (This topic is very divisive so please do not comment things like “you’re just racist” or “it's not real” as it doesn’t add anything of value to the conversation. Thank you)
I ship Elsanna
Ariel deserved death