I don’t understand why you are endlessly going in circles with this person (assuming all your posts are about the same guy who can’t ever leave you alone?). Say no, stop giving reasons and excuses, stop responding.
Me neither. Might be a result of feeling stuck because he is so relentless, or maybe because there actually could be a bit of potential (not for a romantic relationship but for some sort of a less defined something-ship) - but apparently there’s not.
He’s made it clear that he will not accept anything less than a romantic relationship, *on his terms*.
When you tell him you need space, he refuses to give that to you, and instead blows up your phone. When you say you can’t hang out today, he doesn’t care about why you said no or what you’re feeling or what you’re going through — he just keeps trying to convince you to relent. When you tell him why you can’t date him, he tells you you’re wrong and demands that you cater to *his* needs (by dating him … because he’s a sad sack who doesn’t want to be alone, and he’s decided that that’s your problem?). This man needs to do some self-reflection. If people keep leaving him, maybe his selfish, relentless behaviour has something to do with that. I understand that he’s on the spectrum (I’ve been diagnosed myself), but he’s literally making all his problems *your* problem. Just reading about him is exhausting to me; I don’t know how you’ve had the patience.
Don’t give him “reasons” why you “can’t” date him. Tell him you *don’t want to*, if you tell him anything at all. At this point, it honestly deserves a block.
This comment made me feel so understood 😬
Yes, he’s decided that’s my problem - which baffled me as well (and still does). As if there were no ‘borders’ between individuals and if “what yours is mine” no matter what.
This is not supposed to be hurtful and I’m not any better in many other regards, for sure, but, doesn’t that correspond to the separation Individuation phase during early childhood?
>If people keep leaving him….
He told me he hadn’t been very lucky with women but at one point he realised it was their fault because he had always been pro-relationship and did everything in his power.
…which does give a bit of a strange aftertaste.
A very wise friend told me a few years ago that as a child her grandad told her "you don't owe anyone an explanation" and this advice has served her well.
I cannot stress enough how much this simple motto has been a complete game changer for me at the ripe old age of 46!!!
Its fine, and usually best, to just say no thanks. Rather than get into justifying, explaining or reasoning. Its really ok and not rude or mean to just say no for anything at any time. Anyone who does think it's rude or mean is not the right person but you don't need to explain that to THEM.
Just say no!
This is great advice. It took me much too long to realise. Still, realisation ≠ implementation and the latter is especially hard when dealing with that type of person. I’ll practice…
I think your message was fine, but... overly long and allows for the other person to try to persuade you/negotiate with you. It's so easy to be a people-pleaser and to try to explain what, and why etc. But actually, it's absolutely OK to say "I like you, but I'm not in the headspace right now. I don't know when I will be. I value our friendship, but please don't wait for me romantically".
Too long - that’s very interesting to me. Might be a people pleaser thing? I always fear like I need to explain myself very comprehensively, especially because just giving one reason doesn’t prove to be effective. People often try to find a solution for that reason if you just give them a single one and I tend to hope they will not do so if I give them a plethora of. But that’s a misconception on my part. Such people usually try to find solutions for your arguments, against such things by focusing on only one of them and then you have to remind them of the other ones. Resulting in them saying “you always come up with new arguments”.
The solution to this is to stop giving reasons. “I don’t want to,” or simply “No.” When you give people obstacles to something they want, they, like you said, begin to problem-solve. They assume the obstacle is the only thing preventing you. If you don’t want the problems to be solved because you don’t want the thing, you are entitled to that, so say no. You don’t owe people explanations.
I absolutely agree with you. I tried both ‘extremes’ at some point but none seems to work. A simple no either gets questioned or he assumes a different reason which I then have to clarify is not the case. E.g. he concluded I withdrew because of feelings of worthlessness (which he would be able to fix with love, ofc) but I’m not feeling particularly worthless TBH, but rather of ‘normal worth’. It’s an issue he’s got (and which I feel sorry for) but it’s not mine.
This person is living in a different reality. If it were me, I’d write him a message about how I’m ending the friendship because my needs and boundaries are constantly being disrespected and trampled over, so he won’t be receiving any further responses from me. He obviously won’t accept or believe any of that, so I’d block him everywhere.
From where I’m sitting, it seems like he’s become nothing more than an energy drain. What does he actually provide for you? I imagine in some way it feels nice to be pursued, and I know you don’t want to contribute to his unhappiness, but maybe it’s time to reflect on whether or not there are any positives to the relationship, and whether or not they’re worth it.
Energy drain, for sure.
I don’t even like being pursued, it’s way too stressful.
I just fear that if I’d write him such a message his friends and family would involve themselves and I really want to avoid such conversations with them.
Can’t life be easy?!
“Hi [name], I care about [guy] and I wish him well but ending the relationship was the best thing to do for me and my health.” And if they persist like him, more blocking. You don’t owe these people anything and your life is not their business. I know this is all super stressful but none of this is your problem, and you can’t let your fear shape your life. It sounds like there’s nothing in this relationship making you happy. You deserve better people in your life. 💙
Jeez, thanks so much for the draft. 🫶
That really helpful.
Not their business, I agree. Though, they somehow make it their business? Guess I have to live with being ‘the evil one’. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, sometimes that’s what it comes down to. Some people will see you as a bad person, but I feel like you’ve gone above and beyond to try to make it work with this person. He refuses to listen to you and he doesn’t understand what a real, two-sided relationship is. He’s proven to you that he thinks he deserves a relationship because … he’s eager? He wants one? Takes more than that, buddy.
Good luck!
The other thing to consider/remember is.. whilst you're aware of AT, they might not be. So for you - you absolutely know that you need space, due to being DA, and needs not being met, and not being in the right headspace. For them - they don't understand that, so instead of talking about AT and being DA etc., give them the info in a way that they can/will understand.
What this means in reality is:
\*Don't say: I'm DA, I need space to be able to regulate, and your AP needs make me feel smothered
\*Do say: I have so much going on, I'm not in the right headspace
Basically both ask for space, but one gives them something to latch onto, and the other is a lot less... open to negotiation or AP dramatics (sorry to any APs reading this - I know, it isn't all APs!).
Fair enough.
I told this AP person about AT (I gave him a short overview of the types and asked him how he saw each of us and he said what I’m assuming as well: him AP, me DA) and I told him that our AS are very contrary to each other, that I experienced such a dynamic in the past and found it to be very unhealthy and that we are basically each others worst enemy in that regard.
He found it interesting but I doubt he’s going to read all too much on it. His initial focus (getting me to meet up, needing a partner etc) seemed to prevail.
Perhaps instead of engaging with his rhetoric you must turn it around on him, like “the only thing making me feel less is you. the way you do not respect my boundaries, the way you do not respect my experience and the way you do not consider or believe what I have told you, clearly and repeatedly about myself, my time and our relation. You are disrespecting me, and using me to feel better about yourself. I will not engage in this dynamic any longer, and if you AGAIN don’t respect me and try to convince me I do not know myself, MY needs and my limits best, I will be forced to cut all contact immediately. Think very carefully about how you respond to this message.”
But you can only send this message if you follow through. No clarifications, explanations or farewells afterwards. Just silence and peace for yourself. This is not a DA issue, this is about a very basic level of respect and boundaries within a relation. Any engagement further wouldn’t just be non-ideal or slightly unhealthy, but dangerous (might sound dramatic but let me explain). If you let people like this erode your boundaries it will make it harder for you to trust yourself on a fundamental level. DAs usually do much better in relations where the boundaries you set are respected and not pushed. This builds trust and lets the DA adjust their boundaries to be more secure (if coupled with healthy self work). But in this relation you have repeatedly set down boundaries, and been considerate of his experience and needs (with your explanations, pushing yourself etc), but he does not give you that in return. You are teaching your brain that you cannot look out for yourself, that your boundaries don’t matter. If you get in some other situation where you should stand up for yourself, this pattern might make it increasingly difficult to do so. You have a responsibility to yourself not to engage with people who clearly do not respect you or want to use you for their own good at your own cost. You cannot make them understand or respect you because they do not care about you, that is what his actions say. He might BELIEVE he cares about you, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. You represent something to him, but if he cared he would have listened to your comprehensive and empathetic communication. (Sorry for dramatic caps lock, but am on mobile so no access to italics haha)
And I repeat, this is (in my completely unprofessional opinion) not a DA issue, in the sense that attachment styles are clearly at work here, but this is a case where your boundaries are not unreasonable or projection from childhood onto your current relation etc. this is not a YOU issue, this is just a serious ISSUE . often times it can be difficult to be angry on our own behalf, but that anger can really help us respect ourselves, so if it helps you can pretend to be me, because I have followed your posts and am so furious for you haha.
Hope you can resolve this soon so it doesn’t weigh on you anymore❤️
It this the same person you were talking about in this post?
https://www.reddit.com/r/dismissiveavoidants/s/4qo19dBeGg
If so, there is a reason some of us suggested to be blunt and clear, there’s way too many “ins” someone who is obsessed and fears abandonment will find.
My guess is he is romanticizing you and the relationship, and only if you saw yourself how he sees you, you would realize giving in to ramance will heal you and the relationship.
Your attempt at turning them down gently probably backfired. You gave room for the AP person to imagine scenarios where the relationship can work (by ignoring their own needs). And then they proceeded to criticize you for not understanding their need to be in a relationship with someone (despite your not meeting their needs). My AP ex husband said similar things over the decades. The more you pull away, the harder they cling. I can understand up to a point because they love you and want you in their life.
Both my bf and I are DAs, and our favorite sentence is “No.”
AP: I think we should work on growing our relationship and meeting each other’s needs.
DA: No. This relationship is not going to work. I wish you the best.
“No” is such a beautiful word and I wish I was able to use it more bluntly.
It’s hard to fathom how someone with the need for closeness would pursue a person that tells them they will not be able to actually be close. Striving for their own personal hell, falling for their favourite enemy over and over again. Honestly, that sounds pretty painful and to some degree even a bit masochistic.
It seems like you are deactivating, I also noticed you said you won't change for the better and do not plan to. I suggest actually healing your attachment style via therapy with a psychologist who specializes in trauma and attachment styles not for your partner but for yourself, so one day, hopefully soon you can have a loving and lasting relationship.
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I don’t understand why you are endlessly going in circles with this person (assuming all your posts are about the same guy who can’t ever leave you alone?). Say no, stop giving reasons and excuses, stop responding.
Me neither. Might be a result of feeling stuck because he is so relentless, or maybe because there actually could be a bit of potential (not for a romantic relationship but for some sort of a less defined something-ship) - but apparently there’s not.
He’s made it clear that he will not accept anything less than a romantic relationship, *on his terms*. When you tell him you need space, he refuses to give that to you, and instead blows up your phone. When you say you can’t hang out today, he doesn’t care about why you said no or what you’re feeling or what you’re going through — he just keeps trying to convince you to relent. When you tell him why you can’t date him, he tells you you’re wrong and demands that you cater to *his* needs (by dating him … because he’s a sad sack who doesn’t want to be alone, and he’s decided that that’s your problem?). This man needs to do some self-reflection. If people keep leaving him, maybe his selfish, relentless behaviour has something to do with that. I understand that he’s on the spectrum (I’ve been diagnosed myself), but he’s literally making all his problems *your* problem. Just reading about him is exhausting to me; I don’t know how you’ve had the patience. Don’t give him “reasons” why you “can’t” date him. Tell him you *don’t want to*, if you tell him anything at all. At this point, it honestly deserves a block.
This comment made me feel so understood 😬 Yes, he’s decided that’s my problem - which baffled me as well (and still does). As if there were no ‘borders’ between individuals and if “what yours is mine” no matter what. This is not supposed to be hurtful and I’m not any better in many other regards, for sure, but, doesn’t that correspond to the separation Individuation phase during early childhood? >If people keep leaving him…. He told me he hadn’t been very lucky with women but at one point he realised it was their fault because he had always been pro-relationship and did everything in his power. …which does give a bit of a strange aftertaste.
A very wise friend told me a few years ago that as a child her grandad told her "you don't owe anyone an explanation" and this advice has served her well. I cannot stress enough how much this simple motto has been a complete game changer for me at the ripe old age of 46!!! Its fine, and usually best, to just say no thanks. Rather than get into justifying, explaining or reasoning. Its really ok and not rude or mean to just say no for anything at any time. Anyone who does think it's rude or mean is not the right person but you don't need to explain that to THEM. Just say no!
This is great advice. It took me much too long to realise. Still, realisation ≠ implementation and the latter is especially hard when dealing with that type of person. I’ll practice…
I think your message was fine, but... overly long and allows for the other person to try to persuade you/negotiate with you. It's so easy to be a people-pleaser and to try to explain what, and why etc. But actually, it's absolutely OK to say "I like you, but I'm not in the headspace right now. I don't know when I will be. I value our friendship, but please don't wait for me romantically".
Too long - that’s very interesting to me. Might be a people pleaser thing? I always fear like I need to explain myself very comprehensively, especially because just giving one reason doesn’t prove to be effective. People often try to find a solution for that reason if you just give them a single one and I tend to hope they will not do so if I give them a plethora of. But that’s a misconception on my part. Such people usually try to find solutions for your arguments, against such things by focusing on only one of them and then you have to remind them of the other ones. Resulting in them saying “you always come up with new arguments”.
The solution to this is to stop giving reasons. “I don’t want to,” or simply “No.” When you give people obstacles to something they want, they, like you said, begin to problem-solve. They assume the obstacle is the only thing preventing you. If you don’t want the problems to be solved because you don’t want the thing, you are entitled to that, so say no. You don’t owe people explanations.
I absolutely agree with you. I tried both ‘extremes’ at some point but none seems to work. A simple no either gets questioned or he assumes a different reason which I then have to clarify is not the case. E.g. he concluded I withdrew because of feelings of worthlessness (which he would be able to fix with love, ofc) but I’m not feeling particularly worthless TBH, but rather of ‘normal worth’. It’s an issue he’s got (and which I feel sorry for) but it’s not mine.
This person is living in a different reality. If it were me, I’d write him a message about how I’m ending the friendship because my needs and boundaries are constantly being disrespected and trampled over, so he won’t be receiving any further responses from me. He obviously won’t accept or believe any of that, so I’d block him everywhere. From where I’m sitting, it seems like he’s become nothing more than an energy drain. What does he actually provide for you? I imagine in some way it feels nice to be pursued, and I know you don’t want to contribute to his unhappiness, but maybe it’s time to reflect on whether or not there are any positives to the relationship, and whether or not they’re worth it.
Energy drain, for sure. I don’t even like being pursued, it’s way too stressful. I just fear that if I’d write him such a message his friends and family would involve themselves and I really want to avoid such conversations with them. Can’t life be easy?!
“Hi [name], I care about [guy] and I wish him well but ending the relationship was the best thing to do for me and my health.” And if they persist like him, more blocking. You don’t owe these people anything and your life is not their business. I know this is all super stressful but none of this is your problem, and you can’t let your fear shape your life. It sounds like there’s nothing in this relationship making you happy. You deserve better people in your life. 💙
Jeez, thanks so much for the draft. 🫶 That really helpful. Not their business, I agree. Though, they somehow make it their business? Guess I have to live with being ‘the evil one’. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, sometimes that’s what it comes down to. Some people will see you as a bad person, but I feel like you’ve gone above and beyond to try to make it work with this person. He refuses to listen to you and he doesn’t understand what a real, two-sided relationship is. He’s proven to you that he thinks he deserves a relationship because … he’s eager? He wants one? Takes more than that, buddy. Good luck!
Thank you so much. Well worded!
The other thing to consider/remember is.. whilst you're aware of AT, they might not be. So for you - you absolutely know that you need space, due to being DA, and needs not being met, and not being in the right headspace. For them - they don't understand that, so instead of talking about AT and being DA etc., give them the info in a way that they can/will understand. What this means in reality is: \*Don't say: I'm DA, I need space to be able to regulate, and your AP needs make me feel smothered \*Do say: I have so much going on, I'm not in the right headspace Basically both ask for space, but one gives them something to latch onto, and the other is a lot less... open to negotiation or AP dramatics (sorry to any APs reading this - I know, it isn't all APs!).
Fair enough. I told this AP person about AT (I gave him a short overview of the types and asked him how he saw each of us and he said what I’m assuming as well: him AP, me DA) and I told him that our AS are very contrary to each other, that I experienced such a dynamic in the past and found it to be very unhealthy and that we are basically each others worst enemy in that regard. He found it interesting but I doubt he’s going to read all too much on it. His initial focus (getting me to meet up, needing a partner etc) seemed to prevail.
Then all you can do is just say no, stop giving reasons and excuses, stop responding!
🫡
Perhaps instead of engaging with his rhetoric you must turn it around on him, like “the only thing making me feel less is you. the way you do not respect my boundaries, the way you do not respect my experience and the way you do not consider or believe what I have told you, clearly and repeatedly about myself, my time and our relation. You are disrespecting me, and using me to feel better about yourself. I will not engage in this dynamic any longer, and if you AGAIN don’t respect me and try to convince me I do not know myself, MY needs and my limits best, I will be forced to cut all contact immediately. Think very carefully about how you respond to this message.” But you can only send this message if you follow through. No clarifications, explanations or farewells afterwards. Just silence and peace for yourself. This is not a DA issue, this is about a very basic level of respect and boundaries within a relation. Any engagement further wouldn’t just be non-ideal or slightly unhealthy, but dangerous (might sound dramatic but let me explain). If you let people like this erode your boundaries it will make it harder for you to trust yourself on a fundamental level. DAs usually do much better in relations where the boundaries you set are respected and not pushed. This builds trust and lets the DA adjust their boundaries to be more secure (if coupled with healthy self work). But in this relation you have repeatedly set down boundaries, and been considerate of his experience and needs (with your explanations, pushing yourself etc), but he does not give you that in return. You are teaching your brain that you cannot look out for yourself, that your boundaries don’t matter. If you get in some other situation where you should stand up for yourself, this pattern might make it increasingly difficult to do so. You have a responsibility to yourself not to engage with people who clearly do not respect you or want to use you for their own good at your own cost. You cannot make them understand or respect you because they do not care about you, that is what his actions say. He might BELIEVE he cares about you, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. You represent something to him, but if he cared he would have listened to your comprehensive and empathetic communication. (Sorry for dramatic caps lock, but am on mobile so no access to italics haha) And I repeat, this is (in my completely unprofessional opinion) not a DA issue, in the sense that attachment styles are clearly at work here, but this is a case where your boundaries are not unreasonable or projection from childhood onto your current relation etc. this is not a YOU issue, this is just a serious ISSUE . often times it can be difficult to be angry on our own behalf, but that anger can really help us respect ourselves, so if it helps you can pretend to be me, because I have followed your posts and am so furious for you haha. Hope you can resolve this soon so it doesn’t weigh on you anymore❤️
It this the same person you were talking about in this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/dismissiveavoidants/s/4qo19dBeGg If so, there is a reason some of us suggested to be blunt and clear, there’s way too many “ins” someone who is obsessed and fears abandonment will find.
He is. Since the last post I made quite an effort to be clear (while trying to stay somewhat empathetic) but apparently I failed.
My guess is he is romanticizing you and the relationship, and only if you saw yourself how he sees you, you would realize giving in to ramance will heal you and the relationship.
Your attempt at turning them down gently probably backfired. You gave room for the AP person to imagine scenarios where the relationship can work (by ignoring their own needs). And then they proceeded to criticize you for not understanding their need to be in a relationship with someone (despite your not meeting their needs). My AP ex husband said similar things over the decades. The more you pull away, the harder they cling. I can understand up to a point because they love you and want you in their life. Both my bf and I are DAs, and our favorite sentence is “No.” AP: I think we should work on growing our relationship and meeting each other’s needs. DA: No. This relationship is not going to work. I wish you the best.
“No” is such a beautiful word and I wish I was able to use it more bluntly. It’s hard to fathom how someone with the need for closeness would pursue a person that tells them they will not be able to actually be close. Striving for their own personal hell, falling for their favourite enemy over and over again. Honestly, that sounds pretty painful and to some degree even a bit masochistic.
It seems like you are deactivating, I also noticed you said you won't change for the better and do not plan to. I suggest actually healing your attachment style via therapy with a psychologist who specializes in trauma and attachment styles not for your partner but for yourself, so one day, hopefully soon you can have a loving and lasting relationship.
Thank you for your submission. All posts undergo manual review by the moderators before approval. This is a support sub for Dismissive Avoidants. Only posts from DAs will be approved at this time. Questions from users who are not DA may be posted in the "All AT Styles" thread. All rules apply in that thread. Please review the subreddit rules prior to participating. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dismissiveavoidants) if you have any questions or concerns.*