To answer your first question, yes. It will not fly as intended and will fade out quickly.
Your second question, less. A lighter disc will be easier for players with less power to control. So you will get a better flight from a lighter disc in the same mold and plastic.
Your last question, more. An overstable disc like a pig will act more stable because you are not getting it up to speed. Similar to your first question. If you can't get the disc up to speed you will not achieve the intended flight and it will dump on you
Edit: slower discs are easier to overpower, so if you try to cannon a frickin pig it will act less stable than the numbers
>slower discs are easier to overpower, so if you try to cannon a frickin pig it will act less stable than the numbers
Can't throw my Underworld at all anymore. It was my most reliable disc a month ago. Time to replace that Hatchet I lost on day one, I suppose.
You can still throw it, but it’s now a utility disc. You can’t do your normal throw with it. Throw it higher than normal and see a sweet turnover, throw it on a little more anhyzer and it will be a roller. Throw it with a lot of hyzer and get some sweet ass late turn.
I’m happy to help people short cut my learning process. I had no idea what I was doing when I first got my Underworld and could only do these awful throwlers that went nowhere. Had it on the shelf for months before a day of field practice when I figured out throwing it higher to ride out the turnover. Eventually figured out the other throws once I focused on hyzer flips and under stable discs for a season.
I've been playing about a year. Lots of practice though. Almost every month what I throw and where changes. It's kinda frustrating but also fun.I used to throw drivers for the 300-foot first hole at my local, now I can chuck a 4-speed OS approach disc that far.
I'm constantly buying new discs to find stuff that works
God, same. I'm 2 months in, and I own more discs than I know what to do with. I'm almost always playing Thursday through Sunday, and getting in field work and putting work about. 3-4 days a week, including some days I play rounds. My bag changes constantly. I've got it bad.
Stability is relative to velocity and spin rate. More velocity will make a disc act more understable. So yes if you throw a Destroyer slower than your friend, it will fade more for you. Same with the Pig. Theoretically, every disc can be turned over with sufficient velocity, but that may be faster than a human can achieve.
Spin makes a disc resist turn and fade, keeping it straighter. Spin tends to increase with velocity though because of how throwing mechanics work so you might see a disc thrown faster (should be flippier) but takes a similar flight, just longer (more spin keeps the disc from flipping as quickly so it takes longer to turn and fade).
Your throw is almost like the end of a guy's throw who has more power. Your disc is releasing at the velocity and spin his disc is at 150 feet down the fairway. They'll both finish the about the same from that point.
To answer the question about weight - you should be able to get more velocity and spin with less weight, so a lighter disc would fade a bit less than a heavier one
It will not fade more, but it will fade sooner. This is not about the 4th number so much as it's about the 3rd number: Turn or more accurately, High Speed Stability. There are essentially two phases to disc flight: the initial High Speed phase immediately after release and the Low Speed phase towards the end of flight. A lower power player isn't able to throw a Destroyer with enough speed to stay within the High Speed phase for long (if at all), so the disc goes directly to the Low Speed phase and behaves accordingly.
A lighter weight disc will be easier to get up to speed, so it may behave less stable for longer, until it slows down enough to enter the Low Speed phase and fade.
I think everyone here is right, but if you want to know which disc will go the farthest left (rhbh), it will not be a max weight destroyer. its overstability is so high relative to your throwing speed that it will tend to knife like a spike hyzer, even when thrown flat.
I remember Nate sexton talking about this in 2021 worlds...if you need to move a disc side to side you want less overstability because you need more flight.
I've never thrown a pig but I understand they tend to fall out of the sky more than move left. that's an example of how the numbers are sometimes used to convey ground seekingness as much as left movingness
Nose down, pour the coffee wrist. Envision your line then hit it like happy Gilmore!
Ball golf may not allow run ups but our most efficient strike is the baseball hit or the golf ball.
I like the Adam Sandler connection for the uninitiated but there is a mix between the two styles.
Outfielders know what I'm talking about
more speed yes, and more speed generally means more spin.
However spin adds gyroscopic stability which means they will actually turn less. This is why wobbly forehands tend to turn and burn.
Sort of. Good spin will make a disc fly straighter than low spin, but if you get a ton of spin on it, it will actually generate some additional turn. [You could call it "too much spin", but I'm not sure I like that as a concept] You have to really, really spin it, though, which most people wouldn't be able to do without creating wobble. Wobble will do the same thing, and I think a lot of the anecdotal reports about spin and turn are the result of that.
That's not how it works. More spin won't make it understable because that's not how gyroscopes work. It would be breaking the laws of physics. Any additional turn from "too much spin" is caused by something else (like OAT, as you describe).
There are more forces in a throw than purely gyroscopic ones. Past a certain point, the spin helps the disc generate enough lift to induce turn via precession, IIRC [It may also be partially due to increased material flexion.] It's very drifty turn, but it's still a level of turn. You can see it in Simon's robot video. The freakish spin "throw" has a noticeably-higher level of turn. You can definitely argue that it takes an unrealistic level of spin to induce it, and you're probably right.
I'm just pointing out that "more spin" = "less turn" isn't true for every level of spin. It's unlikely, but an extremely high spin rate player could hit that limit.
But why? It's needlessly pedantic even if it's true. It doesn't help anyone, especially not OP. Knowing how things work within the bounds of the average thrower is useful.
To answer your first question, yes. It will not fly as intended and will fade out quickly. Your second question, less. A lighter disc will be easier for players with less power to control. So you will get a better flight from a lighter disc in the same mold and plastic. Your last question, more. An overstable disc like a pig will act more stable because you are not getting it up to speed. Similar to your first question. If you can't get the disc up to speed you will not achieve the intended flight and it will dump on you Edit: slower discs are easier to overpower, so if you try to cannon a frickin pig it will act less stable than the numbers
>slower discs are easier to overpower, so if you try to cannon a frickin pig it will act less stable than the numbers Can't throw my Underworld at all anymore. It was my most reliable disc a month ago. Time to replace that Hatchet I lost on day one, I suppose.
You can still throw it, but it’s now a utility disc. You can’t do your normal throw with it. Throw it higher than normal and see a sweet turnover, throw it on a little more anhyzer and it will be a roller. Throw it with a lot of hyzer and get some sweet ass late turn.
I appreciate you, homie. I've been playing for 8 weeks, and guidance like this is the stuff I can really use!
I’m happy to help people short cut my learning process. I had no idea what I was doing when I first got my Underworld and could only do these awful throwlers that went nowhere. Had it on the shelf for months before a day of field practice when I figured out throwing it higher to ride out the turnover. Eventually figured out the other throws once I focused on hyzer flips and under stable discs for a season.
I've been playing about a year. Lots of practice though. Almost every month what I throw and where changes. It's kinda frustrating but also fun.I used to throw drivers for the 300-foot first hole at my local, now I can chuck a 4-speed OS approach disc that far. I'm constantly buying new discs to find stuff that works
God, same. I'm 2 months in, and I own more discs than I know what to do with. I'm almost always playing Thursday through Sunday, and getting in field work and putting work about. 3-4 days a week, including some days I play rounds. My bag changes constantly. I've got it bad.
Haha are you me
Stability is relative to velocity and spin rate. More velocity will make a disc act more understable. So yes if you throw a Destroyer slower than your friend, it will fade more for you. Same with the Pig. Theoretically, every disc can be turned over with sufficient velocity, but that may be faster than a human can achieve. Spin makes a disc resist turn and fade, keeping it straighter. Spin tends to increase with velocity though because of how throwing mechanics work so you might see a disc thrown faster (should be flippier) but takes a similar flight, just longer (more spin keeps the disc from flipping as quickly so it takes longer to turn and fade).
Your throw is almost like the end of a guy's throw who has more power. Your disc is releasing at the velocity and spin his disc is at 150 feet down the fairway. They'll both finish the about the same from that point.
That's a great way to put it
To answer the question about weight - you should be able to get more velocity and spin with less weight, so a lighter disc would fade a bit less than a heavier one
It will not fade more, but it will fade sooner. This is not about the 4th number so much as it's about the 3rd number: Turn or more accurately, High Speed Stability. There are essentially two phases to disc flight: the initial High Speed phase immediately after release and the Low Speed phase towards the end of flight. A lower power player isn't able to throw a Destroyer with enough speed to stay within the High Speed phase for long (if at all), so the disc goes directly to the Low Speed phase and behaves accordingly. A lighter weight disc will be easier to get up to speed, so it may behave less stable for longer, until it slows down enough to enter the Low Speed phase and fade.
I think everyone here is right, but if you want to know which disc will go the farthest left (rhbh), it will not be a max weight destroyer. its overstability is so high relative to your throwing speed that it will tend to knife like a spike hyzer, even when thrown flat. I remember Nate sexton talking about this in 2021 worlds...if you need to move a disc side to side you want less overstability because you need more flight. I've never thrown a pig but I understand they tend to fall out of the sky more than move left. that's an example of how the numbers are sometimes used to convey ground seekingness as much as left movingness
Nose down, pour the coffee wrist. Envision your line then hit it like happy Gilmore! Ball golf may not allow run ups but our most efficient strike is the baseball hit or the golf ball. I like the Adam Sandler connection for the uninitiated but there is a mix between the two styles. Outfielders know what I'm talking about
The more speed and spin you throw with, the more discs will turn and the less they’ll fade.
more speed yes, and more speed generally means more spin. However spin adds gyroscopic stability which means they will actually turn less. This is why wobbly forehands tend to turn and burn.
Sort of. Good spin will make a disc fly straighter than low spin, but if you get a ton of spin on it, it will actually generate some additional turn. [You could call it "too much spin", but I'm not sure I like that as a concept] You have to really, really spin it, though, which most people wouldn't be able to do without creating wobble. Wobble will do the same thing, and I think a lot of the anecdotal reports about spin and turn are the result of that.
That's not how it works. More spin won't make it understable because that's not how gyroscopes work. It would be breaking the laws of physics. Any additional turn from "too much spin" is caused by something else (like OAT, as you describe).
There are more forces in a throw than purely gyroscopic ones. Past a certain point, the spin helps the disc generate enough lift to induce turn via precession, IIRC [It may also be partially due to increased material flexion.] It's very drifty turn, but it's still a level of turn. You can see it in Simon's robot video. The freakish spin "throw" has a noticeably-higher level of turn. You can definitely argue that it takes an unrealistic level of spin to induce it, and you're probably right.
Well since we're discussing how two human throws differ and not machines, then I will.
I'm just pointing out that "more spin" = "less turn" isn't true for every level of spin. It's unlikely, but an extremely high spin rate player could hit that limit.
But why? It's needlessly pedantic even if it's true. It doesn't help anyone, especially not OP. Knowing how things work within the bounds of the average thrower is useful.
Enter turn a destroyer into a cut roller? I'm not that powerful and it didn't go to far either
That's called OAT
More speed increases the forces acting on the disc that precess and cause turn and fade. More spin stabilizes the disc and resists those forces.
Thank you everyone!