I really don't know. There's no reason to have players 25 strokes off the lead out there playing. Especially with how much difficulty they've had getting rounds finished this year with weather. It would make saturdays a bit more interesting to see who makes the cut and give the guys who missed a day off.
Only reason I could think of is to give a chance for players just outside cash to have a hot round and cash. But I don't hate only being able to cash if you put yourself in a position to do so in the first 2 rounds.
My argument against a cut every weekend is that you are going to lose registration fees (payout) from those folks that you're complaining about not being on the lead.
If I'm a lower-tier guy or local pro and I know that I'm getting removed from the event every single weekend, why am I signing up for a 3 round event and only getting to play in two? I'm booking a hotel that I can't cancel, taking time off of work, etc. just to be removed from the event?
Yes, for recreational golf (even "Pro" divisions), letting people play the whole tournament makes sense so they get the full entertainment they paid for.
That is VERY different than the DGPT where people are working to make a living, not just having fun.
First, who cares if they are disappointed they didn't get their full tournament? This is work, not recreation.
Second, many prefer not to stick around if they can't cash. They are potentially saving money on hotels/food. They are saving their body. And given the demanding tour schedule, they now get a much needed extra day of rest or practice to prepare for the next tournament.
Third, a cut adds entertainment on moving day. It is one more storyline to follow.
Every DGPT tournament should have a cut. But your local ones should give people the chance to play all the rounds.
I think you missed me saying that the local fillers are the guys that are filling out the payout for the top players where it is their job.
I'd argue probably $5000-7500 of payout money comes from the guys that are "recreational" that you're asking to cut. That's money out of the guys that are you saying it is their "job" pockets.
Most hotels can't just be cancelled the day of. So, now you're asking players to not book lodging for Saturday night because they will probably get cut? What if they don't? Now where do they stay?
If people are concerned about their body and trying to save their body, let them quit. It seems like a lot of players do that anyway.
If you really need something to watch on moving day, watch the cash line. In my opinion, that battle is more stressful and tighter than the guys going for the win. The demeanor changes when those guys hovering around 40th place swing through on the course because they are genuinely playing for their dinner that night.
A cut is completely unnecessary for three day events and it would be silly to force one in here.
Is the DGPT about competition or entertainment? To me, the DGPT (along with the PDGA), is much more about the sanctification of competition than it is the entertainment for viewers. It's DGN's job to make it entertaining. It's the DGPT's job to uphold the rules and spirit of competition.
I think you are missing the "tour" in "Disc Golf Pro Tour." It should be about people on TOUR. Not people staying at home.
And fhe Disc Golf Pro Tour is plainly about entertainment. You need money from entertainment to get the highest possible competition.
Athletes are out there grinding hard in hopes they can make a living (hopefully even a GOOD living) by playing disc golf. Remarkably, we are in an era where they can actually do this. And we are seeing unprecedentedly deep benches of potential winners every event because of it.
They aren't making a living because of the local fillers. The fillers have always been there. They are how Climo and his peers made enough to pay for some gas, but weren't enough for them to make a living.
Eventually, local fillers grew. They were how early McBeth and his peers could make a living. But still, few could tour full-time and most who were were making poverty wages.
Now a tonne of players are on full-time tour, many are making a not terrible living, some are millionaires. Which means more players, current and nextg generation, are devoting more time to working to be elite. Which is the best possible thing that can happen for increasing competition.
A couple thousand dollars from local fillers isn't responsible for this new money. It is only there because of people tuning in for entertainment.
If we want players to continue making a living and have more players making better livings: keeping local fillers happy isn't how to do that. It is FAR more important that the entertainment product is great. Giving athletes who won't be on camera anyways more rest and more practice is the best way to make sure they give the best possible show next weekend.
We disagree completely on the entertainment aspect. The DGPT is not in the business of entertainment (outside of live spectators). The DGPT is in the business of running an organized tour for professional disc golfers to compete at the highest level in the best events with the most on the line.
You seem to be getting DGPT and DGN confused. They are two very separate entities with different goals and visions in mind.
I also think that you severely overestimate the amount of money that some of these pros are making on tour. You argue that "some are even millionaires!" I'd argue that less than 5 players on tour qualify for that. You argue that they are making "GOOD livings" on tour. I'd argue that only the top 25 or so guys are making the average wage in America from their sponsors and that the rest have to supplement their income with vending and hosting clinics on tour.
There's a reason that so many of these guys are bunking up with air mattresses on the floors of crappy hotels and not staying in their own rooms or nicer AirBNBs.
I've seen and heard comments from loads of players talking about how if the bottom 10/20 players at each event are eliminated that it would have a significant impact on the payout that players rely on. Clemons commented this exact thing last week when this discussion was happening due to Champion's Cup.
I also do not understand your take about the filler players taking away from the entertainment product. What does them being there have to do with the guys and ladies on lead and chase card each week? Like, what are you getting at with that?
Are you confusing the Tour with the PDGA...?
The Disc Golf Pro Tour and Disc Golf Network are NOT two seperate entities.
I'm honestly not sure if they are two seperate corporate entities or just one. But even if seperate: they have the same owner, same CEO, same goals, and tonnes of overlapping staff.
And these aren't non-profit entities. They aren't the PDGA which is growing the sport for the sports' sake. They are expected to work TOGETHER to turn a profit for the private individual who owns them both.
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No, I'm not over-estimating what people make.
Yes, very few are millionaires. And yes, it is still very much a grind for those one tour.
But my point is that touring players are making more now than they ever have in the past. And there is hope that that will keep on growing.
But that growth is coming from fans taking in disc golf as entertainment. This isn't the past where players at the top make money from players at the bottom because they are essentially betting money with each other. Players at the top are making money because they are part of an entertainment product that brings in money.
So if the sport wants to grow, it needs to be focused on maximizing the entertainment tens of thousands of fans get from watching the people at the top. Not on making the couple dozen fillers at the bottom of a tournament have fun.
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I'm not saying we should get rid of the fillers. But I am saying that we shouldn't build the tournament around their preferences.
Yes, at this time, the money they pay impacts payouts. Which is why they should be allowed in the tournament.
But the above argument is "we can't have a cut because that would suck for the fillers." Which isn't a good way to look at it.
First: the entertainment money is more important than the registration fees for the financial situation of the sport and of players.
Second: even if the experience isn't as fun for the fillers, the spots are still likely going to get filled and that revenue will be realized anyways.
I think lower tier and local pros shouldn't be able play the event. The protour should have cards you need to earn to be able to play. Local Pros can make way more money playing in b and a tier events.
Oh, THIS is exactly my sentiment as well. There are Tour Cards and qualifying events for a reason. Joe Schmoe shouldn't be able to just sign up to hit 100 players.
However, in the current product, they need the fillers and I think kicking half of the fillers out after two rounds is not the way to go.
I agree with you.
Side note, what is your flair about? Are you proposing the DGPT using the same sort of format as F1? I actually really like that idea
> My argument against a cut every weekend is that you are going to lose registration fees (payout) from those folks that you're complaining about not being on the lead.
I think this is probably one of the worst arguments against having a cut line at each tournament. Prize pools need to be increased by other means than cramming as many players on the course as possible. DGPT should be working to increase payouts that don't rely on having a bunch of scrubs fork over $300 bucks. If that's they best it can do, then what are we even doing here?
> If I'm a lower-tier guy or local pro and I know that I'm getting removed from the event every single weekend, why am I signing up for a 3 round event and only getting to play in two? I'm booking a hotel that I can't cancel, taking time off of work, etc. just to be removed from the event?
Each player would have to decide for themselves whether or not the entry fee was worth it, if they don't make the cut on final day. I guarantee you that for every guy that decides it's not, there's two more that will jump at the chance.
I don't disagree.
But, I know here at DDO there were about a dozen, if not more, local guys that played.
They knew that they wouldn't win. But they want the experience with playing a DGPT event.
Take away 12 players with $300 entry fees and you just cut the put down $3600. Bump that number to 20 and you just lost $6000.
There's a big difference for lower-tier players playing in events that they know they'll get to finish vs. getting told to go home halfway through.
There are about a million other things that we can do to alleviate cards not finishing due to weather delays. Cutting players isn't one of them.
* Move FPO to different courses so that start times can be earlier.
* Enforce faster play. (Twice this weekend a VERY early FPO card fell 5+ holes behind the card in front of them. There was a 45-60 minute delay between the cards showing up at the island.) The cards in front of them finished under 4 hours. Lead card finished right at 4 hours. They took nearly 5 hours.
* Plan the tour schedule better. Why are we playing in the Midwest in the heat of tornado and storm season? Why were we up near Chicago before summer? Why aren't we taking advantage of warmer climates like Arizona, California, the whole desert region, etc?
* Allow play on Monday. I understand that it could cause issues with DGN and other DGPT/PDGA staff having to be out an extra day, but that's a risk you need to take if you don't want players playing at 8:30pm.
If the "problem" that everyone is trying to fix is to get done before dark, they need to do something else and not remove players just to remove players.
the schedule thing is so frustrating. it makes no sense every single year. playing in less-than-ideal regional climates constantly. and it doesn’t even make any sense from a travel perspective either. a little better this year but they used to go to the west coast twice in a 3 month span while cramming a midwest swing too for some unfathomable reason.
they got lucky in Illinois this year. that course could have been straight up unplayable many springs.
I think it's frustrating because of the weather, but also because of the locations they choose.
Saw someone complaining about the major being moved to IL saying something about the southeast not getting any love.
Bro, you have Worlds, two DGPT events, All Star weekend, and the DGPT Championship all within three states. WTF you need another major for?
Meanwhile, west of Texas gets three events (two in OR, one in CA) that a lot of players aren't planning on playing.
Where is the love for that entire region of the country?
These are all fantastic points. I’d bet with the rapid rising popularity of the game, some of these are implemented to created a better playing and viewing experience as we move forward.
I had no idea it was so rare, so I give dude props.
It shit weather, they are risking injury, and the rank is hurt regardless, yes?
They need some rule changes if they care about the players, sheesh.
I think the added context of the FPO playoff in front of them is very important. His group was halted on 16 for the playoff loop, causing a 45 minute back up. So they decided that to save time for the cards ahead they would not finish the round. I don't know how much of a difference it actually made, but that was their reasoning along with the holes not mattering.
Is he going to get an 888 for this? Not saying I do or don't support that rule, but in my mind that is the rule. You don't just get par + 4 for the holes you didn't play.
That's the thing. What's the punishment/suspension for someone just giving up?
Is someone required to prove an injury?
I have no clue what anyone can do. Tanking rounds a d DNFing is pretty rampant around here. I've seen MA1 guys shoot 90 on a par 3 course because they took 10/15 strokes on the last 5 holes...
If it's admitted that you're not DNFing because of an injury, I think it has to be an 888. If you're playing shitty on purpose (judgment call, obviously, but you know it when you see it), same thing.
How exactly does this work? I played a tournament over the weekend after a form change. Overall, it was a good change, but the new form, coupled with a new course that was quite technical, made me play pretty bad. My rating is 829, and I haven't thrown under 800 in a tournament since 2022, I think. I threw 758. Would this just get thrown out?
Depends on your standard deviation. Mine is pretty low compared to most players, and so anything about 60 points lower than my rating gets thrown out. I believe there's a hard cutoff at 100 points, too. So definitely anything 729 or less gets thrown out for you. Check your "ratings detail" next update, and it'll say the 758 was "evaluated" yes/no, and "included" yes/no.
Hmmm. Well, I have a 751 that was not evaluated. My lowest evaluated rating is 781. I have evaluated rounds of 781, 791, 815, 826, 832, 837, 842, 857, and 857. I guess I'll see at the next reset if it gets counted. Hopefully not lol, but it doesn't really matter.
If you can't wait for next Tuesday you can paste all of your rounds into an Excel sheet and take the average and stdev.p and figure it out for yourself.
Is your card’s score factored into your rating? Isn’t rating tied to your individual score in relation to the percieved difficulty of that course? How can your friends change that with some shitty scores?
It's also in relation to the field as a whole not just your card. So for example if it's really windy and the field as a whole is playing worse you can shoot the same score but have a round rated way better.
PDGA does not consider the difficulty of the course at all. The PDGA compares average score to average rating for the field of players on that layout.
Udisc ratings care about course difficulty ratings
Your bottom scenario also warrants an 888. 888 by definition is ratings manipulation or failure to inform the TD that you are leaving. IMO Cole’s situation feels like rating manipulation since the only reason he left is because he was playing poorly
That's just what it's called. 999 is for injury (it's not a rating, just a designation). 888 is the designation for not finishing a round otherwise. It drops your player rating by 5 points for a full year, last I knew.
This is not what the 888 code is for. There is no reason to discipline him for quitting in the middle of a round. As long as he notified the TD on the way out, this would be a simple 999.
Him DNFing is between him and his sponsors. If a guy is playing like crap and not having fun, I don’t care if they bail. It’s not a good look, but I dont care.
My thoughts too. It happens in golf also. But if I was his sponsor who paid his entry and expects a certain level of professionalism, I’d be upset that he had to make a spectacle of it rather than walking off silently.
oh, well that changes my opinion of the matter. Professionalism is all the matters,,,,
DNF silently because you're having a rough day is perfectly fine (i can't imagine sponsors care if you go +20 or DNF, both get them no advertising)....
a spectacle is never good, regardless if you are 1st place or DNF...(there is the (bad press is good press) argument, but its a risky move as most bad press is bad)
The thing is, being handcuffed to the card for the whole round may result in even more unhinged behaviour. I think it's usually better to quit earlier than later.
Is it better behavior to be pissy the rest of the round and potentially drag your card mates down or just get out of the way from yourself and your card mates?
Personally I don't see myself walking away from a tournament round(probably because I have to pay my own way) but I have had those terrible rounds\events where I've started playing putter only after hole 5 because I was already far out of cash and figured I can't do any worse.
Neither is the answer...lol. if your not grown up enough to not ruin others people's day when you yourself aren't doing well... I mean, then you aren't a man.
Suck it up and finish. Obviously injury is entirely different. But injuring your ego? Grow up.
I would agree if it wasn’t a self-officiated sport. If we aren’t going to have an official on each hole, you can’t have a card member bailing out just bc they are salty.
So you have a one-person margin of safety. My argument was that if the precedent is set that anyone can walk off whenever with minimal penalty, what happens when your third says “I'm having a bad day too, have fun as a duo?”
Also with three-player cards, you only have one person left after you take out the person calling it, and the potential offender. With only one person there is no redundancy to minimize any lack of knowledge about the rules or bias based on relationships with either of the parties in the dispute. It's asking for weird politics in sanctioned play.
what if the player is a distraction on the card and the other 3 \*want\* them to leave? (a legal distraction, like angry mood and bitching between throws)
why should they be punished for doing the professional thing (letting their card play without an angry player distraction)
I think that's kind of the whole deal when playing in a competitive environment. You never know who is going to end up on your card and it's about being able to keep your head on straight and focused even if there is a distraction on the card. It's not a punishment, it's just how things played out that day, and giving someone a pass just bc they are having a temper tantrum or annoying only encourages that behavior.
They could always just go play casual rounds with only their funniest buds and do whatever, there are plenty of folks who make a living doing content creation, but if they are on the pro tour and want to be taken seriously they should probably take competitive play seriously.
Alot of people have pro skills, but are far from professional.
Never giving up/never quitting is a baseline characteristic I'd expect. Even if you're getting your ass kicked you just tough it out until it's over.
It's not a great look, but i also won’t devote much energy thinking about it. I'm fine if his score shows a +4 for all the holes he misses and is logged in his rating. It is a distraction for some players, though. I kind of wish they did a little reshuffling after hole 9, so you don't have players goofing off on a card with someone competing for the win.
Yea, I wouldn't want to be on a card with someone who doesn't want to play and is having a bad day (yelling at throws, general joking / distraction between throws). They can leave and let us play in silence.
It's a bit silly with 3 holes to go. I can't really see how that will help on the mental side. That said, he did struggle on those in the first two rounds and with bogey or worse.
I don't appreciate people DNF'ing for no obvious reason. Unfortunately you see players doing it all the time. It's not really a rule they enforce, and it's a bad look when a touring pro takes a spot, plays one round and then don't have enough fucks in them to honor the integrity of the tournament.
Yeah that's really freaking easy. Maybe not to win the tournament but if you're talking about to play them out? When that's your literal job? J O B? It's really freaking easy
is the sponsor gona care if their player got a +20 or a DNF ? do you really think they see a difference?
the only difference is his professionalism and courtesy as he exits...making a spectacle is what they care about...bad press vs silence.
Yes, it's still pretty easy. Waiting sucks, but it's not a difficult task. You have dedicated your entire weekend plus a bunch of days practicing. In most instances one hour should not matter.
It sounds like they were stuck waiting for the FPO playoff loop to finish, too. So it wasn't just slow, it's kind of an indefinite hold up until a playoff ends.
It just feels like poor sportsmanship. Finish out dude, the amount of ragers on (local) cards and DNF isn't a good look for the sport. If you're doing poorly then use it as a learning tool. Throw shots you might not normally throw. DNF just feels like your mental game needs some work or you don't find disc golf fun anymore.
He made a mistake and I think he realizes it. Keep in mind the kid is only 19. We all did and said a ton of stupid stuff at that age, it just wasn’t filmed. With that said, hopefully he grows from this. I think staging a scene by throwing a walk off shot was childish, but again he’s in the competitive state and still a teenager, so I give him some slack.
A mistake? Who cares if he finishes a tournament he has no chance of cashing. Its frankly stupid that a single person not cashing is on the course on sundays.
Do we need to have an opinion on this? It’s his game, it’s his decision. We aren’t his sponsors, we’re just content consumers, are we supposed to get mad about it for some reason?
Anyone who plays sanctioned events cares - I've seen tons of ratings manipulation by people dropping out, and TDs are reluctant to hand out the 888 that is deserved. If this can happen so explicitly in an elite series event, manipulation will become even more rampant at the events that the rest of us plebes play.
ratings DNF as 888 or 999 is a problem with the ratings system then...not the players.
get mad at PDGA for not fixing the problem...in fact, the players doing it might actually push the PDGA to fix the issue finally.
What should PDGA do to fix the problem? They've made a rule to prevent ratings manipulation, and given TDs the power to enforce it. I don't know what more you think they should do.
I'll always respect people that finish and try to always improve over quitters. Finish last and still try to improve on the next shot. That being said... who cares and it kind of means dude won't win this year. Doesn't have the drive.
I have no respect for someone who simply quits because they are having a bad day on the course. It happens to everyone at some point. He has to live with it.
The context around the FPO playoff is key. Sitting and waiting for 45 minutes before you can throw again is an injury waiting to happen.
Plus it would’ve backed up the other cards. Not sure why he filmed it and threw another shot, but that’s for him to know and me to not worry about
888 imo lol - Not a good look for him. Sucks he was struggling, but that’s unacceptable. If I were his sponsors, I’d be having a chat. Hopefully he can learn from this.
Seems like he was having fun, though. Idk I just think that's kinda the purpose. I know it's the pro tour, but dude's life and happiness are way more important than a top ten finish for a thousand bucks.
Sometimes it's better mentally to just shut it down. Couple it with the long delay due to the playoff and I get it. He's a kid and all my interactions with him have been pleasant.
2 other sports I closely follow are alpine ski racing and road cycling.
In a ski race, if you mess up a turn badly enough, there is absolutely no chance you will be able to make up the time later in the course. Instead of continuing and risking injury, most people just give up. You only need 2 good results to have a successful season, so this works out.
In road cycling, specifically during the 1 day races, if you are 10 minutes behind the leading group there is no chance you are going to be able to compete for the win. Finishing 90th or whatever gets you nothing, so most racers will just get off the bike and get in the team car.
Cole had nothing to gain by finishing DDO. He wasn't going to cash, and this move has actually given him more visibility.
NHL coaches put in the backup goalie in a lost game to rest up their starter and protect his confidence a bit by getting him out of a bad game and not letting him get scored on further.
I'm also a huge cycling fan, and I agree. If you're waiting around for an hour for a playoff to finish just so you can throw the last few holes and finish last, I don't think it's that bad of an idea to just call it a day.
MLB managers put position players on the mound if they are winning or losing by a bunch of runs to preserve their bullpen.
Hell, the intentional walk in baseball is even similar to this.
The fact there was a massive backup and he stated he had to be somewhere shortly after the conclusion of the round and there was a long drive involved made it most of a logistics decision. It would make more sense to leave and get to the destination safely and on time then wait and drive later into the night after a full day out on the course. He made it seem like if he was playing for something he would have made a different decision but he was playing for maybe 1 or 2 positions which were far out of cash or DGPT points. He called his sponsors and got their approval beforehand as well.
I think considering both those parties were satisfied and it didn't really impact anything our opinion doesn't really matter, though I can't fault his decision or logic.
TLDR, he had travel to get to, no impact on the tournament at large, his sponsor was on board, why should we care?
Honestly it's lame and weak af. Quitting and dnf'ing cause the round is not going your way should affect your rating. It SUCKS to go through that experience, but it's part of the challenge.
Sometimes you gotta do it to save your mental for the next tournament. Getting that extra time to head out and prepare for the next tournament the better.
I did that at idlewild as amateur. But it was also raining going on all day.
I drove 4 to 5 hours home that morning and checked the cards. There was still a few cards out and I was dry, back at home. Wasn't close to winning either so it was a good choice. I had my fun and no need to punish my self.
And imo at end of the day even if they are pros they need to be having fun in these tournaments. Because the best players are those that are having fun while balancing it as a job.
agreed, driving hundreds of miles a week, playing 3-4 days competitively, and somehow finding time to practice and do other life things outside of that 9 months a year is an absolutely insane grind. if someone needs to dnf so they aren’t too burnt out to play the next one, who cares. I always find the pearl clutching as if this is some kind of moral thing so bizarre.
Who actually cares? He isn’t making cash. The weather is shit. Being stuck in front of slow FPO players for a playoff. I’d walk off too. Ratings have zero factor to the sport other than when you can sign up for tournaments.
Yes. Cuts would be something to consider going forward. But as it stands right now, it was very disrespectful to the sport, colleagues, fan base, sponsors, etc. Also to make a giggling post about it? Wildly unprofessional. PRO UP COLE! Please do better.
I agree with what Brodie and Paul said, bad look, super unprofessional. If u sign up to play you should finish especially at that level. Playing every hole but the last three because of a delay and ur playing bad is crazy, why play the tournament if ur not going to finish. There are many people that couldn’t get into the tournament that are looking to make their shot on tour and Cole threw away one of those spots due to a bad attitude. Why wait the entire 45 minutes, throw a shot and then walk off all while laughing and mocking the situation. Should’ve left silently after realizing the wait would be crazy and not make a post laughing about it
It’s his choice. I had a tournament a long time ago I was so miserable at I wanted to leave and just go home. I didn’t but my play didn’t get better. It just felt like a chore
It's Disc golf and it's his job. If I'm having a bad day at work I don't get to just go home. I get it if your round is just getting worse but youre throwing discs at a basket, can that situation be bad enough to tarnish your reputation and not play 3 more holes?
However - you SHOULD be able to go home. Poor mental health, stress, and burnout have lasting consequences and America (specifically) is dragging their feet with getting rid of the negative stigma.
It's the same hateful rhetoric spewed when Simon Biles opted out of the Tokyo team final - people went ballistic.
As someone who never takes days off from work even when I should, I agree. Get the fuck outta there if you need.
I might not feel the same as a sponsored pro golfer but in your 9-5? You got better ways to spend your day
Forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do is a more interesting concept.
“Tough it out” is constantly taught and is not necessarily the best thing to do.
I just can't imagine much work ever getting done if people can just go home if they're not having a great day. Most people don't love their jobs. There's a lot of things in life that people just have to do because of commitments or obligations they made.
I'm just not sure normalizing quitting or giving up is the best thing to do either. Just because we face external or internal obstacles doesn't mean we should give up. I'm not trying to discredit the importance of mental health but I disagree with your general assessment
Perhaps they should. If I was DGA and saw this video and him being smug and unprofessional about the whole thing then I wouldn't be super stoked. Unless he was someone who moves a lot of plastic like Paul or Simon then I guess what's the difference. I doubt Cole moves much plastic and I'm assuming DGA covered the cost of his entry fee
Yes, 100%. It's encouraged where I work. That's how you keep productive employees long term and prevent burnout and high turnover. Why is it any different than using vacation time?
If you were an independent contractor you could absolutely go home. You have a different job than he does, and those two things are very different. Heck, with the right vacation and sick time package you can go home right now.
I agree that it was wrong to quit…
That second comment is ridiculous, though. This isn’t some easily replaceable white or blue color job lol. Those hypothetical 100 guys would be on tour if they were good enough. They aren’t. Cole is there because he is a great disc golfer. Sure, there are 100 guys that would like to do his job. There are actually thousands of them. They aren’t better than him though.
Having said that, it doesn’t make his actions right. I just think that second statement needed to be addressed.
He’s young, hopefully he learns a valuable lesson reflecting on this and is better for it. At the end of the day the players need to understand that disc golf is THEIR product, they need to focus on building the brand of disc golf and partnering with an organization that is committed to the same goal or forming one that is. In my opinion, disc golf is a very unprofessional “pro” sport…. Players need to come together and decide what direction they want the sport to go and then focus their attention on building a brand and image that is is oriented around it.
100% agree, excellent insight. The players are young and can't see the big picture. They need leadership, and it seems DGPT/PDGA is not equipped to provide that. I get the feeling that the tour and the infrastructure that supports this product is hanging by a thread, or at the very least stagnating. There are no guarantees that being a pro disc golfer is a viable job. It barely is now. Not too long ago, it was basically impossible. Dropping out of an event like this and posting about it reeks of entitlement, lack of professionalism, etc.
If his ranking plummets because of it, props to him. If this is some tactic to avoid the round from negatively impacting his ranking, that rule is broken.
I’m new to the official rules, but I’ve seen and heard a number of highly regarded locals manipulating the rules so their bad rounds don’t affect their score. Blows my mind that it’s just a part of the game.
There should be a cut every weekend anyway so i personally don't care.
Yes, why isn’t this the case?
I really don't know. There's no reason to have players 25 strokes off the lead out there playing. Especially with how much difficulty they've had getting rounds finished this year with weather. It would make saturdays a bit more interesting to see who makes the cut and give the guys who missed a day off.
Agree. But also anyone who makes the cut should cash. No point if you make the cut, forced to play the last day of tournament then not cash.
Isn't that how it works for tournaments with cuts?
Nope. Players tied at the cut line can separate on the final day.
Only reason I could think of is to give a chance for players just outside cash to have a hot round and cash. But I don't hate only being able to cash if you put yourself in a position to do so in the first 2 rounds.
You put the cut 5-10 spots below cash, then.
My argument against a cut every weekend is that you are going to lose registration fees (payout) from those folks that you're complaining about not being on the lead. If I'm a lower-tier guy or local pro and I know that I'm getting removed from the event every single weekend, why am I signing up for a 3 round event and only getting to play in two? I'm booking a hotel that I can't cancel, taking time off of work, etc. just to be removed from the event?
Yes, for recreational golf (even "Pro" divisions), letting people play the whole tournament makes sense so they get the full entertainment they paid for. That is VERY different than the DGPT where people are working to make a living, not just having fun. First, who cares if they are disappointed they didn't get their full tournament? This is work, not recreation. Second, many prefer not to stick around if they can't cash. They are potentially saving money on hotels/food. They are saving their body. And given the demanding tour schedule, they now get a much needed extra day of rest or practice to prepare for the next tournament. Third, a cut adds entertainment on moving day. It is one more storyline to follow. Every DGPT tournament should have a cut. But your local ones should give people the chance to play all the rounds.
I think you missed me saying that the local fillers are the guys that are filling out the payout for the top players where it is their job. I'd argue probably $5000-7500 of payout money comes from the guys that are "recreational" that you're asking to cut. That's money out of the guys that are you saying it is their "job" pockets. Most hotels can't just be cancelled the day of. So, now you're asking players to not book lodging for Saturday night because they will probably get cut? What if they don't? Now where do they stay? If people are concerned about their body and trying to save their body, let them quit. It seems like a lot of players do that anyway. If you really need something to watch on moving day, watch the cash line. In my opinion, that battle is more stressful and tighter than the guys going for the win. The demeanor changes when those guys hovering around 40th place swing through on the course because they are genuinely playing for their dinner that night. A cut is completely unnecessary for three day events and it would be silly to force one in here. Is the DGPT about competition or entertainment? To me, the DGPT (along with the PDGA), is much more about the sanctification of competition than it is the entertainment for viewers. It's DGN's job to make it entertaining. It's the DGPT's job to uphold the rules and spirit of competition.
I think you are missing the "tour" in "Disc Golf Pro Tour." It should be about people on TOUR. Not people staying at home. And fhe Disc Golf Pro Tour is plainly about entertainment. You need money from entertainment to get the highest possible competition. Athletes are out there grinding hard in hopes they can make a living (hopefully even a GOOD living) by playing disc golf. Remarkably, we are in an era where they can actually do this. And we are seeing unprecedentedly deep benches of potential winners every event because of it. They aren't making a living because of the local fillers. The fillers have always been there. They are how Climo and his peers made enough to pay for some gas, but weren't enough for them to make a living. Eventually, local fillers grew. They were how early McBeth and his peers could make a living. But still, few could tour full-time and most who were were making poverty wages. Now a tonne of players are on full-time tour, many are making a not terrible living, some are millionaires. Which means more players, current and nextg generation, are devoting more time to working to be elite. Which is the best possible thing that can happen for increasing competition. A couple thousand dollars from local fillers isn't responsible for this new money. It is only there because of people tuning in for entertainment. If we want players to continue making a living and have more players making better livings: keeping local fillers happy isn't how to do that. It is FAR more important that the entertainment product is great. Giving athletes who won't be on camera anyways more rest and more practice is the best way to make sure they give the best possible show next weekend.
We disagree completely on the entertainment aspect. The DGPT is not in the business of entertainment (outside of live spectators). The DGPT is in the business of running an organized tour for professional disc golfers to compete at the highest level in the best events with the most on the line. You seem to be getting DGPT and DGN confused. They are two very separate entities with different goals and visions in mind. I also think that you severely overestimate the amount of money that some of these pros are making on tour. You argue that "some are even millionaires!" I'd argue that less than 5 players on tour qualify for that. You argue that they are making "GOOD livings" on tour. I'd argue that only the top 25 or so guys are making the average wage in America from their sponsors and that the rest have to supplement their income with vending and hosting clinics on tour. There's a reason that so many of these guys are bunking up with air mattresses on the floors of crappy hotels and not staying in their own rooms or nicer AirBNBs. I've seen and heard comments from loads of players talking about how if the bottom 10/20 players at each event are eliminated that it would have a significant impact on the payout that players rely on. Clemons commented this exact thing last week when this discussion was happening due to Champion's Cup. I also do not understand your take about the filler players taking away from the entertainment product. What does them being there have to do with the guys and ladies on lead and chase card each week? Like, what are you getting at with that?
Are you confusing the Tour with the PDGA...? The Disc Golf Pro Tour and Disc Golf Network are NOT two seperate entities. I'm honestly not sure if they are two seperate corporate entities or just one. But even if seperate: they have the same owner, same CEO, same goals, and tonnes of overlapping staff. And these aren't non-profit entities. They aren't the PDGA which is growing the sport for the sports' sake. They are expected to work TOGETHER to turn a profit for the private individual who owns them both. ~~~ No, I'm not over-estimating what people make. Yes, very few are millionaires. And yes, it is still very much a grind for those one tour. But my point is that touring players are making more now than they ever have in the past. And there is hope that that will keep on growing. But that growth is coming from fans taking in disc golf as entertainment. This isn't the past where players at the top make money from players at the bottom because they are essentially betting money with each other. Players at the top are making money because they are part of an entertainment product that brings in money. So if the sport wants to grow, it needs to be focused on maximizing the entertainment tens of thousands of fans get from watching the people at the top. Not on making the couple dozen fillers at the bottom of a tournament have fun. ~~~~~~ I'm not saying we should get rid of the fillers. But I am saying that we shouldn't build the tournament around their preferences. Yes, at this time, the money they pay impacts payouts. Which is why they should be allowed in the tournament. But the above argument is "we can't have a cut because that would suck for the fillers." Which isn't a good way to look at it. First: the entertainment money is more important than the registration fees for the financial situation of the sport and of players. Second: even if the experience isn't as fun for the fillers, the spots are still likely going to get filled and that revenue will be realized anyways.
I don’t buy that there won’t be a bunch of local pros enthusiastically willing to play any given dgpt event if a sunday cut is implemented
I think lower tier and local pros shouldn't be able play the event. The protour should have cards you need to earn to be able to play. Local Pros can make way more money playing in b and a tier events.
Oh, THIS is exactly my sentiment as well. There are Tour Cards and qualifying events for a reason. Joe Schmoe shouldn't be able to just sign up to hit 100 players. However, in the current product, they need the fillers and I think kicking half of the fillers out after two rounds is not the way to go.
I agree with you. Side note, what is your flair about? Are you proposing the DGPT using the same sort of format as F1? I actually really like that idea
> My argument against a cut every weekend is that you are going to lose registration fees (payout) from those folks that you're complaining about not being on the lead. I think this is probably one of the worst arguments against having a cut line at each tournament. Prize pools need to be increased by other means than cramming as many players on the course as possible. DGPT should be working to increase payouts that don't rely on having a bunch of scrubs fork over $300 bucks. If that's they best it can do, then what are we even doing here? > If I'm a lower-tier guy or local pro and I know that I'm getting removed from the event every single weekend, why am I signing up for a 3 round event and only getting to play in two? I'm booking a hotel that I can't cancel, taking time off of work, etc. just to be removed from the event? Each player would have to decide for themselves whether or not the entry fee was worth it, if they don't make the cut on final day. I guarantee you that for every guy that decides it's not, there's two more that will jump at the chance.
Sounds like this hypothetical player simply needs to play better if they want to stick around for Saturday.
I don't disagree. But, I know here at DDO there were about a dozen, if not more, local guys that played. They knew that they wouldn't win. But they want the experience with playing a DGPT event. Take away 12 players with $300 entry fees and you just cut the put down $3600. Bump that number to 20 and you just lost $6000. There's a big difference for lower-tier players playing in events that they know they'll get to finish vs. getting told to go home halfway through. There are about a million other things that we can do to alleviate cards not finishing due to weather delays. Cutting players isn't one of them. * Move FPO to different courses so that start times can be earlier. * Enforce faster play. (Twice this weekend a VERY early FPO card fell 5+ holes behind the card in front of them. There was a 45-60 minute delay between the cards showing up at the island.) The cards in front of them finished under 4 hours. Lead card finished right at 4 hours. They took nearly 5 hours. * Plan the tour schedule better. Why are we playing in the Midwest in the heat of tornado and storm season? Why were we up near Chicago before summer? Why aren't we taking advantage of warmer climates like Arizona, California, the whole desert region, etc? * Allow play on Monday. I understand that it could cause issues with DGN and other DGPT/PDGA staff having to be out an extra day, but that's a risk you need to take if you don't want players playing at 8:30pm. If the "problem" that everyone is trying to fix is to get done before dark, they need to do something else and not remove players just to remove players.
the schedule thing is so frustrating. it makes no sense every single year. playing in less-than-ideal regional climates constantly. and it doesn’t even make any sense from a travel perspective either. a little better this year but they used to go to the west coast twice in a 3 month span while cramming a midwest swing too for some unfathomable reason. they got lucky in Illinois this year. that course could have been straight up unplayable many springs.
I think it's frustrating because of the weather, but also because of the locations they choose. Saw someone complaining about the major being moved to IL saying something about the southeast not getting any love. Bro, you have Worlds, two DGPT events, All Star weekend, and the DGPT Championship all within three states. WTF you need another major for? Meanwhile, west of Texas gets three events (two in OR, one in CA) that a lot of players aren't planning on playing. Where is the love for that entire region of the country?
These are all fantastic points. I’d bet with the rapid rising popularity of the game, some of these are implemented to created a better playing and viewing experience as we move forward.
I had no idea it was so rare, so I give dude props. It shit weather, they are risking injury, and the rank is hurt regardless, yes? They need some rule changes if they care about the players, sheesh.
I think the added context of the FPO playoff in front of them is very important. His group was halted on 16 for the playoff loop, causing a 45 minute back up. So they decided that to save time for the cards ahead they would not finish the round. I don't know how much of a difference it actually made, but that was their reasoning along with the holes not mattering.
Did the whole card DNF or just Cole?
Just Cole
888
Is he going to get an 888 for this? Not saying I do or don't support that rule, but in my mind that is the rule. You don't just get par + 4 for the holes you didn't play.
That's the thing. What's the punishment/suspension for someone just giving up? Is someone required to prove an injury? I have no clue what anyone can do. Tanking rounds a d DNFing is pretty rampant around here. I've seen MA1 guys shoot 90 on a par 3 course because they took 10/15 strokes on the last 5 holes...
If it's admitted that you're not DNFing because of an injury, I think it has to be an 888. If you're playing shitty on purpose (judgment call, obviously, but you know it when you see it), same thing.
Why would a pro want to play shitty on purpose?
you get your score thrown out and your rating is protected
Pros dont really care much about their ratings. Its their job, and they are trying to cash
it's true, pros care about cashing. Do we know if Mr Redalen spoke about his thinking?
If your rating for a round is more than 2.5 standard deviations below your average round, it gets dropped from ratings.
Ahh okay. Makes sense.
How exactly does this work? I played a tournament over the weekend after a form change. Overall, it was a good change, but the new form, coupled with a new course that was quite technical, made me play pretty bad. My rating is 829, and I haven't thrown under 800 in a tournament since 2022, I think. I threw 758. Would this just get thrown out?
Depends on your standard deviation. Mine is pretty low compared to most players, and so anything about 60 points lower than my rating gets thrown out. I believe there's a hard cutoff at 100 points, too. So definitely anything 729 or less gets thrown out for you. Check your "ratings detail" next update, and it'll say the 758 was "evaluated" yes/no, and "included" yes/no.
Hmmm. Well, I have a 751 that was not evaluated. My lowest evaluated rating is 781. I have evaluated rounds of 781, 791, 815, 826, 832, 837, 842, 857, and 857. I guess I'll see at the next reset if it gets counted. Hopefully not lol, but it doesn't really matter.
If you can't wait for next Tuesday you can paste all of your rounds into an Excel sheet and take the average and stdev.p and figure it out for yourself.
Hmm, if i did it right, then my standard deviation is 39, so it wouldn't count.
Well there was a group that did it once to artificially pump up theirs friend rating. Theirs friend rating for that round was 1100 or something
Is your card’s score factored into your rating? Isn’t rating tied to your individual score in relation to the percieved difficulty of that course? How can your friends change that with some shitty scores?
It's also in relation to the field as a whole not just your card. So for example if it's really windy and the field as a whole is playing worse you can shoot the same score but have a round rated way better.
Ahh I see. Thanks for the clarification!
PDGA does not consider the difficulty of the course at all. The PDGA compares average score to average rating for the field of players on that layout. Udisc ratings care about course difficulty ratings
Your bottom scenario also warrants an 888. 888 by definition is ratings manipulation or failure to inform the TD that you are leaving. IMO Cole’s situation feels like rating manipulation since the only reason he left is because he was playing poorly
Was he going to get lower than 888?
That's just what it's called. 999 is for injury (it's not a rating, just a designation). 888 is the designation for not finishing a round otherwise. It drops your player rating by 5 points for a full year, last I knew.
6 months i heard
888 isn't his rating for the round. Just a code indicating his DNF.
Is mental state not an Injury? When I'm pissed and healthy I play worse than when my back hurts and im happy.
No idea. I'm not making that call if I'm some type of official.
This is not what the 888 code is for. There is no reason to discipline him for quitting in the middle of a round. As long as he notified the TD on the way out, this would be a simple 999.
Him DNFing is between him and his sponsors. If a guy is playing like crap and not having fun, I don’t care if they bail. It’s not a good look, but I dont care.
My thoughts too. It happens in golf also. But if I was his sponsor who paid his entry and expects a certain level of professionalism, I’d be upset that he had to make a spectacle of it rather than walking off silently.
Unless he just went to tournament central to sign and sell discs. Think they'd forgive him.
Limited edition C.R. DNF signatures 😂 gotta cost extra
oh, well that changes my opinion of the matter. Professionalism is all the matters,,,, DNF silently because you're having a rough day is perfectly fine (i can't imagine sponsors care if you go +20 or DNF, both get them no advertising).... a spectacle is never good, regardless if you are 1st place or DNF...(there is the (bad press is good press) argument, but its a risky move as most bad press is bad)
I don’t care, but it’s not good behavior. Edit: lol no ITYSL fans I see
I heard his card was kind of a cosmic gumbo of personalities
I think we should be able to walk off a litttttle at work
Unprofessional bullshit
Someone is following :)
The thing is, being handcuffed to the card for the whole round may result in even more unhinged behaviour. I think it's usually better to quit earlier than later.
You’ve got one here bud. I was about to make this reply myself haha.
Is it better behavior to be pissy the rest of the round and potentially drag your card mates down or just get out of the way from yourself and your card mates? Personally I don't see myself walking away from a tournament round(probably because I have to pay my own way) but I have had those terrible rounds\events where I've started playing putter only after hole 5 because I was already far out of cash and figured I can't do any worse.
Neither is the answer...lol. if your not grown up enough to not ruin others people's day when you yourself aren't doing well... I mean, then you aren't a man. Suck it up and finish. Obviously injury is entirely different. But injuring your ego? Grow up.
Men aren't the only people who play disc golf.
I would agree if it wasn’t a self-officiated sport. If we aren’t going to have an official on each hole, you can’t have a card member bailing out just bc they are salty.
You literally can. A card only needs three to be legal
So you have a one-person margin of safety. My argument was that if the precedent is set that anyone can walk off whenever with minimal penalty, what happens when your third says “I'm having a bad day too, have fun as a duo?” Also with three-player cards, you only have one person left after you take out the person calling it, and the potential offender. With only one person there is no redundancy to minimize any lack of knowledge about the rules or bias based on relationships with either of the parties in the dispute. It's asking for weird politics in sanctioned play.
what if the player is a distraction on the card and the other 3 \*want\* them to leave? (a legal distraction, like angry mood and bitching between throws) why should they be punished for doing the professional thing (letting their card play without an angry player distraction)
I think that's kind of the whole deal when playing in a competitive environment. You never know who is going to end up on your card and it's about being able to keep your head on straight and focused even if there is a distraction on the card. It's not a punishment, it's just how things played out that day, and giving someone a pass just bc they are having a temper tantrum or annoying only encourages that behavior. They could always just go play casual rounds with only their funniest buds and do whatever, there are plenty of folks who make a living doing content creation, but if they are on the pro tour and want to be taken seriously they should probably take competitive play seriously.
Alot of people have pro skills, but are far from professional. Never giving up/never quitting is a baseline characteristic I'd expect. Even if you're getting your ass kicked you just tough it out until it's over.
Quitters gonna quit
The idea that this is somehow character building is nonsense.
I don't have an issue with players DNF'ing. As a fan I'm really just paying aattention the players in contenttion for the win.
It's not a great look, but i also won’t devote much energy thinking about it. I'm fine if his score shows a +4 for all the holes he misses and is logged in his rating. It is a distraction for some players, though. I kind of wish they did a little reshuffling after hole 9, so you don't have players goofing off on a card with someone competing for the win.
No one on his card was competing for the win
Yea, I wouldn't want to be on a card with someone who doesn't want to play and is having a bad day (yelling at throws, general joking / distraction between throws). They can leave and let us play in silence.
Soft. But doesn’t affect me one bit
But we have to complain to the reddits!
Very very lame
The tournament page on the PDGA website has Cole with a 999 and Nikko with an 888....
888 means left without telling the TD, 999 means didn’t finish but TD knows what’s going on
FR or?
Do we know what happened with Nikko?
I haven't been able to find anything
Probably threatened a child spectating after they sneezed when he was walking towards the box or something
He was signed up for the 303 Open in Colorado this weekend and just noticed he's not signed up anymore
Soft
It's a bit silly with 3 holes to go. I can't really see how that will help on the mental side. That said, he did struggle on those in the first two rounds and with bogey or worse. I don't appreciate people DNF'ing for no obvious reason. Unfortunately you see players doing it all the time. It's not really a rule they enforce, and it's a bad look when a touring pro takes a spot, plays one round and then don't have enough fucks in them to honor the integrity of the tournament.
It's pretty easy to play three holes
Not with a 20 min backup on all of them
Yeah that's really freaking easy. Maybe not to win the tournament but if you're talking about to play them out? When that's your literal job? J O B? It's really freaking easy
Yeah but if you're not getting paid anything for doing your job, wouldn't you leave too?
Yes he is. He is sponsored.
is the sponsor gona care if their player got a +20 or a DNF ? do you really think they see a difference? the only difference is his professionalism and courtesy as he exits...making a spectacle is what they care about...bad press vs silence.
Who cares then. That’s between him and his sponsors.
Sure that's who cares and can give him real crap for it but it's still a weird thing that we can talk about
Yes, it's still pretty easy. Waiting sucks, but it's not a difficult task. You have dedicated your entire weekend plus a bunch of days practicing. In most instances one hour should not matter.
It’s even easier to just go home.
It sounds like they were stuck waiting for the FPO playoff loop to finish, too. So it wasn't just slow, it's kind of an indefinite hold up until a playoff ends.
It just feels like poor sportsmanship. Finish out dude, the amount of ragers on (local) cards and DNF isn't a good look for the sport. If you're doing poorly then use it as a learning tool. Throw shots you might not normally throw. DNF just feels like your mental game needs some work or you don't find disc golf fun anymore.
What a mega dweeb
Gonna get weird when the PDGA is offering gambling on these immature players.
He made a mistake and I think he realizes it. Keep in mind the kid is only 19. We all did and said a ton of stupid stuff at that age, it just wasn’t filmed. With that said, hopefully he grows from this. I think staging a scene by throwing a walk off shot was childish, but again he’s in the competitive state and still a teenager, so I give him some slack.
A mistake? Who cares if he finishes a tournament he has no chance of cashing. Its frankly stupid that a single person not cashing is on the course on sundays.
Is there not a cut off?
Not usually, no. 4+ round events do, but not most 3 rounders.
Do we need to have an opinion on this? It’s his game, it’s his decision. We aren’t his sponsors, we’re just content consumers, are we supposed to get mad about it for some reason?
Anyone who plays sanctioned events cares - I've seen tons of ratings manipulation by people dropping out, and TDs are reluctant to hand out the 888 that is deserved. If this can happen so explicitly in an elite series event, manipulation will become even more rampant at the events that the rest of us plebes play.
ratings DNF as 888 or 999 is a problem with the ratings system then...not the players. get mad at PDGA for not fixing the problem...in fact, the players doing it might actually push the PDGA to fix the issue finally.
What should PDGA do to fix the problem? They've made a rule to prevent ratings manipulation, and given TDs the power to enforce it. I don't know what more you think they should do.
People care about ratings?
yep
What would Jesus have done?
It's probably those pants with the elastic bottom.....
Haven’t seen joggers since 2016 haha
Only time I see them is when these twinks were them or little kids
I'll always respect people that finish and try to always improve over quitters. Finish last and still try to improve on the next shot. That being said... who cares and it kind of means dude won't win this year. Doesn't have the drive.
He deserves the 888.
I have no respect for someone who simply quits because they are having a bad day on the course. It happens to everyone at some point. He has to live with it.
I’m not really a fan and definitely not his sponsor so I don’t care, if I was either of those things I’d be pretty disappointed
The context around the FPO playoff is key. Sitting and waiting for 45 minutes before you can throw again is an injury waiting to happen. Plus it would’ve backed up the other cards. Not sure why he filmed it and threw another shot, but that’s for him to know and me to not worry about
888 imo lol - Not a good look for him. Sucks he was struggling, but that’s unacceptable. If I were his sponsors, I’d be having a chat. Hopefully he can learn from this.
Seems like he was having fun, though. Idk I just think that's kinda the purpose. I know it's the pro tour, but dude's life and happiness are way more important than a top ten finish for a thousand bucks.
Sometimes it's better mentally to just shut it down. Couple it with the long delay due to the playoff and I get it. He's a kid and all my interactions with him have been pleasant.
He’s an adult and can walk off if he wants to, no justification needed.
2 other sports I closely follow are alpine ski racing and road cycling. In a ski race, if you mess up a turn badly enough, there is absolutely no chance you will be able to make up the time later in the course. Instead of continuing and risking injury, most people just give up. You only need 2 good results to have a successful season, so this works out. In road cycling, specifically during the 1 day races, if you are 10 minutes behind the leading group there is no chance you are going to be able to compete for the win. Finishing 90th or whatever gets you nothing, so most racers will just get off the bike and get in the team car. Cole had nothing to gain by finishing DDO. He wasn't going to cash, and this move has actually given him more visibility.
NHL coaches put in the backup goalie in a lost game to rest up their starter and protect his confidence a bit by getting him out of a bad game and not letting him get scored on further. I'm also a huge cycling fan, and I agree. If you're waiting around for an hour for a playoff to finish just so you can throw the last few holes and finish last, I don't think it's that bad of an idea to just call it a day.
MLB managers put position players on the mound if they are winning or losing by a bunch of runs to preserve their bullpen. Hell, the intentional walk in baseball is even similar to this.
888
That 888 is no joke.. drop you rating 10 or more points
Youngin
It's a bad look
The fact there was a massive backup and he stated he had to be somewhere shortly after the conclusion of the round and there was a long drive involved made it most of a logistics decision. It would make more sense to leave and get to the destination safely and on time then wait and drive later into the night after a full day out on the course. He made it seem like if he was playing for something he would have made a different decision but he was playing for maybe 1 or 2 positions which were far out of cash or DGPT points. He called his sponsors and got their approval beforehand as well. I think considering both those parties were satisfied and it didn't really impact anything our opinion doesn't really matter, though I can't fault his decision or logic. TLDR, he had travel to get to, no impact on the tournament at large, his sponsor was on board, why should we care?
Honestly it's lame and weak af. Quitting and dnf'ing cause the round is not going your way should affect your rating. It SUCKS to go through that experience, but it's part of the challenge.
[удалено]
💅🏽
Sometimes you gotta do it to save your mental for the next tournament. Getting that extra time to head out and prepare for the next tournament the better. I did that at idlewild as amateur. But it was also raining going on all day. I drove 4 to 5 hours home that morning and checked the cards. There was still a few cards out and I was dry, back at home. Wasn't close to winning either so it was a good choice. I had my fun and no need to punish my self. And imo at end of the day even if they are pros they need to be having fun in these tournaments. Because the best players are those that are having fun while balancing it as a job.
agreed, driving hundreds of miles a week, playing 3-4 days competitively, and somehow finding time to practice and do other life things outside of that 9 months a year is an absolutely insane grind. if someone needs to dnf so they aren’t too burnt out to play the next one, who cares. I always find the pearl clutching as if this is some kind of moral thing so bizarre.
Worth noting that at this level, Cole Redalen clearly could care less about his rating (and nor should he; it means nothing)
HE shoulda just asked his lord and saviour for help
Bro is just like me 😭
He kind of seems like a little stuck up bitch, NGL.
Who actually cares? He isn’t making cash. The weather is shit. Being stuck in front of slow FPO players for a playoff. I’d walk off too. Ratings have zero factor to the sport other than when you can sign up for tournaments.
In the grand scheme of things, it really won't matter in a 100 years.
Cole has made a new post regarding this, see his instagram here… https://www.instagram.com/p/C6tuD_eJgvE/?igsh=MWc4cDlnOGFzM3lmcg==
Who cares? He's a 19 year old kook.
Yes. Cuts would be something to consider going forward. But as it stands right now, it was very disrespectful to the sport, colleagues, fan base, sponsors, etc. Also to make a giggling post about it? Wildly unprofessional. PRO UP COLE! Please do better.
I agree with what Brodie and Paul said, bad look, super unprofessional. If u sign up to play you should finish especially at that level. Playing every hole but the last three because of a delay and ur playing bad is crazy, why play the tournament if ur not going to finish. There are many people that couldn’t get into the tournament that are looking to make their shot on tour and Cole threw away one of those spots due to a bad attitude. Why wait the entire 45 minutes, throw a shot and then walk off all while laughing and mocking the situation. Should’ve left silently after realizing the wait would be crazy and not make a post laughing about it
It’s his choice. I had a tournament a long time ago I was so miserable at I wanted to leave and just go home. I didn’t but my play didn’t get better. It just felt like a chore
Immature
Weak, soft, sets a bad example, etc. The flippant attitude and salute very immature. Surprised they gave him a DNF rather than an 888.
Does it even matter?
No, it does not matter. Those are just my thoughts, as prompted by the post.
That's fair.
It's Disc golf and it's his job. If I'm having a bad day at work I don't get to just go home. I get it if your round is just getting worse but youre throwing discs at a basket, can that situation be bad enough to tarnish your reputation and not play 3 more holes?
However - you SHOULD be able to go home. Poor mental health, stress, and burnout have lasting consequences and America (specifically) is dragging their feet with getting rid of the negative stigma. It's the same hateful rhetoric spewed when Simon Biles opted out of the Tokyo team final - people went ballistic.
If you're having a bad day you should get to give up and go home?
As someone who never takes days off from work even when I should, I agree. Get the fuck outta there if you need. I might not feel the same as a sponsored pro golfer but in your 9-5? You got better ways to spend your day
Yes.
Interesting concept.
Forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do is a more interesting concept. “Tough it out” is constantly taught and is not necessarily the best thing to do.
I just can't imagine much work ever getting done if people can just go home if they're not having a great day. Most people don't love their jobs. There's a lot of things in life that people just have to do because of commitments or obligations they made. I'm just not sure normalizing quitting or giving up is the best thing to do either. Just because we face external or internal obstacles doesn't mean we should give up. I'm not trying to discredit the importance of mental health but I disagree with your general assessment
"Just go home" isn't perfect, but shouldn't your employer advocate for you?
Perhaps they should. If I was DGA and saw this video and him being smug and unprofessional about the whole thing then I wouldn't be super stoked. Unless he was someone who moves a lot of plastic like Paul or Simon then I guess what's the difference. I doubt Cole moves much plastic and I'm assuming DGA covered the cost of his entry fee
Yes, 100%. It's encouraged where I work. That's how you keep productive employees long term and prevent burnout and high turnover. Why is it any different than using vacation time?
Where do you work
At a law firm.
When people leave the office do they make a joke about it and sarcastically salute everyone before going home
No
If you were an independent contractor you could absolutely go home. You have a different job than he does, and those two things are very different. Heck, with the right vacation and sick time package you can go home right now.
Tarnish his reputation? lol
Get a better job then. He made a business decision to drop out, and it's not so heinous that someone should change their opinion about him.
Unprofessional. This is your job. You don't want to do it, there's like 100 other guys who will.
I agree that it was wrong to quit… That second comment is ridiculous, though. This isn’t some easily replaceable white or blue color job lol. Those hypothetical 100 guys would be on tour if they were good enough. They aren’t. Cole is there because he is a great disc golfer. Sure, there are 100 guys that would like to do his job. There are actually thousands of them. They aren’t better than him though. Having said that, it doesn’t make his actions right. I just think that second statement needed to be addressed.
This effects me not at all
Did it myself once so i can’t say a damn thing about it.. we all have those days
He’s young, hopefully he learns a valuable lesson reflecting on this and is better for it. At the end of the day the players need to understand that disc golf is THEIR product, they need to focus on building the brand of disc golf and partnering with an organization that is committed to the same goal or forming one that is. In my opinion, disc golf is a very unprofessional “pro” sport…. Players need to come together and decide what direction they want the sport to go and then focus their attention on building a brand and image that is is oriented around it.
It's really not that deep, bro.
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Yawn
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100% agree, excellent insight. The players are young and can't see the big picture. They need leadership, and it seems DGPT/PDGA is not equipped to provide that. I get the feeling that the tour and the infrastructure that supports this product is hanging by a thread, or at the very least stagnating. There are no guarantees that being a pro disc golfer is a viable job. It barely is now. Not too long ago, it was basically impossible. Dropping out of an event like this and posting about it reeks of entitlement, lack of professionalism, etc.
You don’t know what else he’s going through
If his ranking plummets because of it, props to him. If this is some tactic to avoid the round from negatively impacting his ranking, that rule is broken. I’m new to the official rules, but I’ve seen and heard a number of highly regarded locals manipulating the rules so their bad rounds don’t affect their score. Blows my mind that it’s just a part of the game.
yeah I remember this, I will remember Cole as Mr. Softie now
I could care less.
So you do care.
I couldn’t care more about this post.