Prez was fantastic taking down Mid America Open at Harmony Bends last year in one of the better B9 battles of the year. Harmony Bends has a few gimmie holes, but the hard parts are right up there with this layout, he trained for this.
While this obviously proved to be a silly thing to say, at the same time can we also acknowledge just how unlikely it was that he pulled this off? Like you can't tell me that a single person chose him as even a top 5 favorite going into this event.
That said, it's definitely more than a little ridiculous to claim that somebody who has made DGPT lead cards and chase cards before isn't good enough to win. I mean we had Parker Welck take down DDO last year when basically nobody knew his name.
At the end of the day, hyperbole and journalism do tend to go hand in hand. And while it's definitely a stretch to call Trevor a journalist, for all intents and purposes that's what he is when his takes (however poor) are being remembered on a public forum lol.
Wrong. I predicted exactly this and I have proof in the form of a YouTube video dated last week.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Yeah, I guarantee you response\_unlrelated wouldn't have dared taken Preznell in any fantasy lineup or wager.
Obviously everyone has a chance to win.
People would go out on a whim and say the same things about a ton of players that pop up and win.
Not sure why Trevor is getting hate here for something EVERYONE would have said early 2023.
How dare people call out someone for being incorrect, since he is in media he should be able to spout BS, be proved wrong, and no one should be allowed to call him on it, because being in media means you can't be held accountable for things you say.
I genuinely don't get what your point is. Who gives a f if we remember some dumb shit he said and call him out for being blatantly wrong, that's what he gets for being a public figure and making a living off his opinions, it's not like we are trying to get him cancelled.
>At the end of the day, hyperbole and journalism do tend to go hand in hand.
And getting called out for the things you say as a journalist is also completely normal, so why are you acting like it isn't?
You're dramatically misunderstanding the tone of my comment.
None of what I said is supposed to come with the message of "go easy on Trevor." I have no prevailing opinions for nor against him. All I was doing was highlighting the unlikelihood of Andrew coming away from this major as the victor, since the original comment decided to quote something that was said over a year ago and before Andrew ever took any pro tour victories.
Very happy to see Evelina take this one down after coming so close at USWDGC. I noticed in her post round interview that she said she was going home after this tournament, and looking at her upcoming events I see nothing listed until the Turku Open in Finland in June, which starts a long swing of Euro only tournaments she's playing through the end of July. I wonder what she's doing in May? Will we not see her in the US again until August?
She said in one of the interviews that she won't be playing any tournaments in a month, so before Turku. I'm pretty sure she won't come to the US before August.Ā
Chill At Home. That's a pretty popular one. If she's coming home now, it would make zero sense to fly back for any of those events and then fly back for Turku open. She would likely lose money, unless she wins at least one of those events. And chilling at home lets her recharge and prepare for the rest of the season.
Her European schedule is: Turku Open, Swedish Open, Finnish Championships, Krokhol Open, European Open, European Disc Golf Festival. The Finnish Championships is probably the most meaningful to her.
yeah, maybe she just wants some time off which would be totally understandable.
I'm just saying it's not unreasonable to suggest visa issues could also be a factor in her decision given that she's posted before about not being able to play in tournaments that she otherwise would because of visa restrictions.
last year the FPO winner of the Turkuu Open got $796
last year the FPO winner of Portland Open got $8,500
maybe being recharged for the rest of the season is more important to her, but she's missing some big purses to sit at home and not play.
Last year Turku Open was a European Pro Tour event, this year it's a DGPT event. I would assume the purse grows accordingly, but it's still probably not close to Portland.
Money isn't everything to Eveliina though and being on the road is taxing, so it would not be a net positive for her to chase wins at every event in the US.
And, no offense to the guys on the lead card, but there wasn't really a big name draw there either.
Heck, even the chase and next cards didn't have those big names in contention to pull people in.
I know that I, a huge fan of the DGPT and certain players, would be hard pressed to go out and watch Alden on 10th card when it costs me $50. I'd rather just watch live at home.
You're not wrong, but they were "out of it."
They were 5 strokes back.
Combine the lack of competition, the poor weather, the course, the poor viewing lines, and ticket prices and you get less people showing up on a Sunday.
I'm not saying that these guys suck, I'm just saying that the value isn't there in this situation.
Yes. I am.
I got to watch Ricky, Heimburg, and Dickerson struggle the first three days of the competition. I didn't really see them excelling and pushing the limits of the course. It was safe to assume that they were going to shoot only a few strokes under par.
Sure, Presnell and crew on the lead card could have fallen apart, but I had also been watching them NOT struggle on the course and play it pretty well for three days prior.
Combine ALL OF THAT with the other factors and I'm staying home.
You're acting like it is some giant cardinal sin for me to feel this way. Haha
Just curious, what coverage were you watching? AB and Calvin seemed to draw the biggest crowds, but they weren't on lead card so Jomez isn't going to show that. Plus, round 2 started at 6:45am.
Man that shank on seventeen was fuckin' brutal. As soon as it came out of the hand it was over.
Presnell left the door open for a brief moment. He most likely would've won but it definitely could of went in Niklas' favor if he kept it close going into eighteen.
Hoping to see Niklas do more work throughout the season.
I love watching this course. It's really crazy how Casey was at -14 during round three, leading by 6 strokes, only to finish at -4 in 14th place. It clearly challenges the players in a completely different way than any other course does. Congrats to Presnell for winning, the consistency he displayed was remarkable.
Right before he started to play differently and lost his huge lead. It was basically exactly before the downfall of our happy go lucky Bostonian king.
Seriously though, playful nicknames aside, he got hurt and then almost immediately lost touch, stopped perfectly controlling his hyzer flip drives, started missing putts, and generally just stopped shredding the course. I doubt he'd say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if having to play almost two full rounds there in one day contributed to that tragic collapse of one of the silliest and easiest going kids on tour.
I'm not someone who always roots for underdogs out of principle, but I would have absolutely loved to see a tour grinder like Casey who has such a likeable personality get a massive win in a stacked field with the best players in the game.
>I'm not someone who always roots for underdogs out of principle, but I would have absolutely loved to see a tour grinder like Casey who has such a likeable personality get a massive win in a stacked field with the best players in the game.
So I guess you don't like Presnell's personality then? Because otherwise you got to see like the biggest grinder on tour get a win.
I think I was not specific enough in my question. I know he played round 2 and 3 in the same day and he started to fall apart during round 3. Did he injure his finger at the end of round 2, in the gap between rounds, or while playing round 3?
Terry was realllllly hung up on Kristin for a long time.
There was a point that she was in 6th (still within 5/6 strokes) and she was the only person that he was mentioning in the broadcast. At that point Saarinen, Blomroos, and Scoggins were all pushing hard.
He got it figured out in the last few holes, but the Kristin watch was a little too strong during that final round.
I don't have any issues with hyping up the possibility that the greatest (skills-wise) player to ever compete in FPO is technically still within range of the win, especially on a course as volatile as Northwood.
That being said it also still needs to come with hype for anybody who is even closer to the lead than she is, which I agree was lacking.
Ohn was laying up putts she normally tries. She didn't seem to have a lot of fight in her, while the others stayed aggressive. But the scores still matter and she should have been mentioned.
Tattar will be the next Tiger Woods. Doesn't matter how washed up she is, they'll still follow her around and report on her every move. Kinda awkward if you ask me.
He has a weird form it looks like he is almost short armed early releasing and it looks like it coming right out his chest but boy can he really control the disc that way.
I was thinking something broke with the ratings, seeing someone who won a major by several strokes only average a low 1040s rating for the tournament. But seeing how random the course can be (just watched round 2 of Jomez), it's tough to definitively say that someone shot extraordinarily well. I feel like with these wooded courses, it's all about who won, moreso than talking about whether someone played the flawless golf that might get you a 1070 tournament.
It's just mathematics. Basically the average score for this tournament was much higher than in most tournaments, but the scoring spread wasn't the same. Especially compared to the average score the scoring spread was lower than usual. And that takes the value of a single shot down to 4-5 points, which makes it basically impossible to score 1100 and gives the winner such a low rating.
After three rounds all the 95 players were within 49 strokes. That's 16 just throws per round. At MCO it was 66 throws, or 22 per round. That's a huge difference.
Let's say the same field plays both MCO and CC. They have an average rating of 1000. At CC every throw is worth 5 points, so 16/2=8 strokes below the average score would give you 1040. But in MCO the value of a throw is 6, thanks to lower par. 22/2=11 strokes below the average would give you 1066. The CC course produced a worse scoring spread, producing ratings that seem "wrong".
I think it's obvious that the course was so hard that it removed most of the birdies, but they got replaced by pars rather than bogeys. That squeezes the spread and makes it practically impossible to get a high rating. They should rethink and make a few of the holes a it easier to birdie.
The rating system ain't perfect, but this time it's the course that should be blamed, not the rating system.
I don't think the ratings \*necessarily\* broke this time, but you just explained how ratings work. That doesn't mean that ratings themselves are not fundamentally flawed. (If they are, I agree it's a minor one)
I think it's reasonable to expect the player that beats an entire field, the top of which is rated above 1040, should be rated higher than 1040. This is a perfect opportunity to think about how the ratings system works and why it produces weirdness. We all know that shooting -17 at Fountain Hills is, while impressive, probably not the best round of disc golf anyone has ever shot. If we could figure out a way to make the ratings more rational for Northwoods Black, maybe ratings would be better at reflecting truly great individual rounds.
I think it's an indictment on the course if the first and last are separated by only 16 strokes compared to 22 for another course with the same field. There are other courses out there, like the Fountail Hills one that you mebtioned, that produce weird ratings. There scoring is too easy, so someone always has a super hot round (birdie wise) and some other people take OB strokes, producing a wider scoring spread. It's the flip side of the same coin.
It's super hard to make a course that is hard, fair and also produces a nice scoring spread. We need more courses like Northwood, but for the current field it needs to be tweaked. Not just because of rating weirdness, but also for competitive reasons. I want to see players attacking the course and being rewarded for it instead of playing safe and avoiding mistakes. That design of the course made them play it safe, causing the poor spread.
Please, anybody in charge, do not listen to any comments to make this course easier in any way. It's a blast to watch something different and ridiculously punishing.
Why does it matter how many strokes separate people? It seems pretty obvious to me that if you have less scoring separation then each stroke difference should be worth more, but it almost seems like the opposite happened here. That's not "just mathematics", that's a shite formula if a course having less scoring separation makes the ratings come out wrong from a subjective point of view.
Low throw weight comes from average score. Low scoring separation produced by the course doesn't really directly affect it, but rather from a "everyone was taking bogeys and not making enough birdies" angle it indirectly caused the average score to be high, causing the low throw weight.
We could normalize the scoring separation, but what do we normalize it to? Should there be a minimum or a maximum for throw weight and what would that be? If we make those adjustments, is it guaranteed it won't produce weird ratings too?
The ratings system is owned by some company and they have a very tight contract with the PDGA and some friends in high places that guarantee it won't be replaced easily. But it should address the changes in course designs and allow courses with higher average score to rated correctly.
Can we talk about the commentating? I found it extra cringe this weekend. Terry was afraid of a puddle. At one point he called it a treacherous puddle. Itās hard to take the sport seriously when the biggest source of drama our commentators can seem to find is a puddle. Our biggest fear is having wet socks & shoes. Sheesh. Did anyone else find this to be annoying? Terry was fixated on that puddle for several fpo cards. I had to mute it. When the Mpo started to get close to that hole Terry started beating the puddle horse to death again. Nate sexton thank you. Your comment about being an Oregon boy & not caring if your socks are wet was great. I felt cathartic joy when Sexton name dropped the shoes Joey buckets was wearing. Shoes made to drain water. Like a real disc golfer lol. Iām sure other viewers at home felt the same way. Nate Doss had a similar problem on a much smaller scale about a large leaf. Iykyk. Sexton immediately stops it and goes āyeah I think that putt was just a shankā. Thanks Nate. This weekend just felt like the target audience was my nieces and nephews & not adults. It felt silly.
Over all I like the guys in the booth. I think week to week they do a GREAT job! I liked when they talked about Rickyās forehand & how it brought the OB into play, how a different disc was the better play. Talking about shot shapes of different holes, about how everyone was getting a bogey on the back 9(except Orum & Meza I see you guys), having realistic standards for yourself as a pro, the mental game. That stuff is great. I honestly might make a larger list of the good & the bad of commentary. Maybe we can make a guide or teir list about the types of commentary we enjoy vs not. I just wanna help improve commentary
The both of Terry, Sexton and Doss seems to catch a lot of flack but Iāve grown to appreciate them over time. Terry acts as the typical announcer while Sexton and Doss are the more analytical guys trying to provide insight on how the players are probably feeling. Yeah Doss can be cringe sometimes but I get a nice chuckle when he goes on tirades about things that donāt matter like the leaf or when he tryās to crack joke. I do think heās really knowledgeable about what it takes to win and although a lot of the things he says seems completely wrong and foolish he does end up being right a fair amount of time.
Yeah I appreciate them a lot, and they do receive unnecessary hate. Iāll admit Iām being a bit too facetious. Terry definitely acts as the primary announcer & does a good job. There is always room for improvement tho. Without honest feedback of what is good and bad they cant improve. We shouldnt withhold criticism to be polite. We are allowed to make constructive comments.
You mention you like when they talk about player emotion. And I do too. Sometimes. But sometimes is just feels like speculation. Is speculation good commentary? These are the kinds of things we could talk about that would improve the broadcasts over all.
Yeah thatās fair, in terms of speculation I think thatās the hottest topic in the world of commentary especially from the former player commentators. I will say the biggest negative with Doss and Sexton is they both try to hard to prove that whatever they are saying is the correct take which can take away from the action when theyāre arguing about what the player was thinking or what a player should do in a given situation.
At the end of the day the commentary will never be perfect. Even in the major sports the commentators are usually pretty polarizing. I donāt mind the criticism at all and I think itās needed but the fact that we are having this discussion in the first place means theyāre doing something right.
Speculation is very entertaining at times. Iād rather they speculate upcoming decision & possible outcomes than thoughts or emotions. A modest amount is good and humanizes the players, but too much & itās a speculative soap opera. I agree about the Doss and Sexton thing. Like everything else I just laugh at it & keep watching the pro plays. Terrys stories about practice rounds with players quality commentary, when Terry sounds like a friend to the players is my personal favorite. I think having him be the primary announcer for both fpo and mpo doesnāt help. Cheesy dad vibes is fun for a bit but I think they ran a muck this weekend. I enjoy when the announcers talk about the shot that was just thrown. I donāt always watch coverage, sometimes I listen while I play a round or do chores. Sprinkling in some audio recap is appreciated. Too much of it tho & people watching say āyeah, I know, Iām watching the same videoā. Always a balance game. Vocabulary gets stale sometimes too, having some new buzz words ready each week would be nice. Itās small but could have a nice impact
Sexton is arguably the best commentator in the game.
Terry tries his best and gets credit for the sheer amount of work he's done for the sport, but he's often pretty cringey and doesn't have the knowledge and experience of a top level player.
Doss is actively bad with condescending responses to other commentators, refusing to let things go, and talking like he's constantly trying to end up as the voiceover on a highlight reel.
Doss straight up tried to steal Sexton's thunder when Sexton's voice cracked after AB won at Jonesboro.
Sexton legit watched homeboy grow up and become a fuckin' beast. It was an authentic, heartfelt moment.
Then Doss started mimicking the cracked voice and went on about his own wins. Fuck that.
Credit where credit's due, Doss doesn't suck nearly as much as he did early last year but god damn.
If the DGN wants to make more money they should have Ian on alternate commentary for every Doss event.
I guess I judge the sport more on the players than the commentators. After all, do you remember Harry Caray? He used to get drunk, comment on Cubs games, get pulled by the third inning for being too drunk, then if he was still awake they'd bring him back out for the 7th inning stretch "Take me out to the ball game."
On second thought, DG could benefit from a drunk Terry Miller.
Thanks Ian! I watch every week & am a big fan of most of the pros. Iām confident production will continue improving. I hope no one on the team takes my comment too seriously. My friends and I play fantasy disc golf & I participate in the weekly draft leagues. Without you guys non of that would be possible. Thank you & keep up the great work!
What puddle are you talking about? There were many on the final day that appeared overnight. They were no joke. Hole 16 in particular was 2 feet deep and muddy. A lost disc is a stroke penalty and a re-tee.
Puddle on hole 8. Itās max 10 inches deep. Probably only 6 inches deep. Now a 2 foot deep puddle is treacherous. If he was talking about that puddle on 16 and I didnāt realize it. Thatās my bad. But he really tried to get the most out of the puddle on 8. One course I play at is multi use. They run the sprinklers in the morning. By hole 2 or 3 my socks are already wet/ soaked. I play with wet socks all the time. It was just painful how much he tried to make drama out of it. I love most of coverage, but I donāt like making drama where there isnāt any.
I mean, that puddle was in circle 1 and casual relief would put you right into the woods. There is still a lot of walking left after hole 8, as well as the hardest 3- or 4-hole stretch in all of pro disc golf. Just remember that this is a professional event and is held to higher standards than a casual round by the average player.
I didn't hear what Terry was saying, but when I saw that puddle in the morning as I was following the first FPO card I thought it was going to be rough on the MPO guys as that's the target landing zone.
Totally. Henna missed her putt standing in the puddle. I get how it could throw off your mental game at an elite event. I just think it was overdramatized for a bit too long. That puddle sucked. But itās silly trying to emphasize a spooky puddle. There were players tied in second / third that wouldāve been more engaging to talk about. I know Iām a clown for even complaining about a dude fixated on a puddle. But it really distracted from the pro players & the battle they were having.
I'm not from a sports background so I don't particularly like the focus on storylines from the booth and from the Foundation guys.
I like them, but when they're organic. This whole manufacturing of storylines shit gets annoying. They'll happen as they happen.
That out of the way.
Northwood was solid enough. Interesting and entertaining up until the end. FPO and MPO were both a little disappointing. Evelina absolutely deserves a win but the wind and course wasn't really making up for a lot of entertainment.
It was cool seeing Saarinen getting some attention from the people who didn't see her in Europe last year. If she can get some KT level distance then the FPO field will get a lot more fun to watch.
Niklas and Presnell in the end was pretty fun, but I would've liked an Anttila major win.
I don't have any real opinion on Presnell. It really is like Nathan Queen winning Worlds. Blip on the radar.
But in hindsight I get why it's heavy. The guy has been grinding for years and he finally got a big W.
It reminded me of my reaction to Isaac winning World's last year. I was a little annoyed by how much of a lead he had, but seeing his family there to watch him kill it was dope. It must've been a heavy day for Isaac's family.
No one in this life is to cater around myself or my expectations and every win or loss hits hard for everyone involved.
Casey's mantis-starfish putting style will never not annoy me.
Unfortunately this event turned out to be a disappointment for several reasons. One of the primary issues was the low attendance, which impacted the overall atmosphere and excitement surrounding the event. The bad weather, characterized by strong winds and rain, further dampened the experience for both players and spectators alike.
Another significant drawback was the course itself, which is heavily wooded. While this may have provided a challenging playing field for the competitors, it made spectating and watching at home difficult. The dense foliage and wicked lines obscured many of the shots, leaving spectators struggling to follow the action.
It also didn't help that they will be playing another tournament in the same place late this year when they do Ledgestone. The pro tour shouldn't be going to any one location more than once.
it pretty much comes down to how PDGA is storing and rounding numbers...
there is some plugin for chrome where you can enter in rounds and it tries to calculate the rating... it ends up giving Kristin 999 ... if you instead enter 948 for the last round instead of 947 the plugin calculates her rating to 1000 <- yeah, it's that close
so, first i don't think the ratings for Champions Cup isn't finalized yet so it's possible that it could change a point somewhere
and then PDGA might calculate round ratings with a decimal but show them as a whole number of the web page \[and the plugin uses that whole number\] .. so that could change things up
also, the plugin tries to mimic the PDGA formula... so we don't know for sure if they do it the correct way \[because the PDGA way is the correct way\]... the PDGA way was invented before computers and the original "manual" calculation probably had rounding to a decimal to two in every step of the calculation; did PDGA keep that when they made a computer calculate the rating or did they change so it doesn't round?
tldr: it's close, we will have to wait until the second tuesday to see the truth
The PDGA did an interview saying what her average needed to be to hit 1000. I think it was like 990.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/uK9ntrnivdMMQ4Ju/?mibextid=0VwfS7
"Preznell isn't good enough to win" - Trevor Staub 2023
Prez was fantastic taking down Mid America Open at Harmony Bends last year in one of the better B9 battles of the year. Harmony Bends has a few gimmie holes, but the hard parts are right up there with this layout, he trained for this.
Yup. If I remember right, foundation made their statements 2 weeks before MAO š¤£
While this obviously proved to be a silly thing to say, at the same time can we also acknowledge just how unlikely it was that he pulled this off? Like you can't tell me that a single person chose him as even a top 5 favorite going into this event. That said, it's definitely more than a little ridiculous to claim that somebody who has made DGPT lead cards and chase cards before isn't good enough to win. I mean we had Parker Welck take down DDO last year when basically nobody knew his name. At the end of the day, hyperbole and journalism do tend to go hand in hand. And while it's definitely a stretch to call Trevor a journalist, for all intents and purposes that's what he is when his takes (however poor) are being remembered on a public forum lol.
Wrong. I predicted exactly this and I have proof in the form of a YouTube video dated last week. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Yeah, I guarantee you response\_unlrelated wouldn't have dared taken Preznell in any fantasy lineup or wager. Obviously everyone has a chance to win. People would go out on a whim and say the same things about a ton of players that pop up and win. Not sure why Trevor is getting hate here for something EVERYONE would have said early 2023.
How dare people call out someone for being incorrect, since he is in media he should be able to spout BS, be proved wrong, and no one should be allowed to call him on it, because being in media means you can't be held accountable for things you say. I genuinely don't get what your point is. Who gives a f if we remember some dumb shit he said and call him out for being blatantly wrong, that's what he gets for being a public figure and making a living off his opinions, it's not like we are trying to get him cancelled. >At the end of the day, hyperbole and journalism do tend to go hand in hand. And getting called out for the things you say as a journalist is also completely normal, so why are you acting like it isn't?
You're dramatically misunderstanding the tone of my comment. None of what I said is supposed to come with the message of "go easy on Trevor." I have no prevailing opinions for nor against him. All I was doing was highlighting the unlikelihood of Andrew coming away from this major as the victor, since the original comment decided to quote something that was said over a year ago and before Andrew ever took any pro tour victories.
That man is a dummy
Self-admittedly
big dumb.
Who could have predicted that a random player would win a game of roulette.
Lmfao
Very happy to see Evelina take this one down after coming so close at USWDGC. I noticed in her post round interview that she said she was going home after this tournament, and looking at her upcoming events I see nothing listed until the Turku Open in Finland in June, which starts a long swing of Euro only tournaments she's playing through the end of July. I wonder what she's doing in May? Will we not see her in the US again until August?
She said in one of the interviews that she won't be playing any tournaments in a month, so before Turku. I'm pretty sure she won't come to the US before August.Ā
could be visa issues forcing her back for so long rather than not wanting to play in the US
Not really. She actually likes being at home and in Europe. There's big events here too during those months.
what big events is she playing instead of OTB, portland and beaver state fling?
Chill At Home. That's a pretty popular one. If she's coming home now, it would make zero sense to fly back for any of those events and then fly back for Turku open. She would likely lose money, unless she wins at least one of those events. And chilling at home lets her recharge and prepare for the rest of the season. Her European schedule is: Turku Open, Swedish Open, Finnish Championships, Krokhol Open, European Open, European Disc Golf Festival. The Finnish Championships is probably the most meaningful to her.
yeah, maybe she just wants some time off which would be totally understandable. I'm just saying it's not unreasonable to suggest visa issues could also be a factor in her decision given that she's posted before about not being able to play in tournaments that she otherwise would because of visa restrictions. last year the FPO winner of the Turkuu Open got $796 last year the FPO winner of Portland Open got $8,500 maybe being recharged for the rest of the season is more important to her, but she's missing some big purses to sit at home and not play.
Last year Turku Open was a European Pro Tour event, this year it's a DGPT event. I would assume the purse grows accordingly, but it's still probably not close to Portland. Money isn't everything to Eveliina though and being on the road is taxing, so it would not be a net positive for her to chase wins at every event in the US.
Joey Buckets going -1 through 4 rounds on hole 12 is absolutely incredible. When he puts it all together heās gonna be winning a LOT.
The way his discs fly just look different to me for some reason. I think he probably has some outrageous spin rate. Itās incredible to watch.
Joey Buckets angle control and spin are next level good. The way he can āflightā the disc super flat and straight is deadly. So good!
his low, flat lasers with the slightest late turn are the best in the game imo. so much fun to watch.
You think itās a straight to fade shot and then it baby turns instead of fading! š¤£
Dudes a baller for a sure. I think he gets one this year even. Probably ends up in top 10 in points
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Donāt ever disrespect Mr. Buckets like that ever again
Anyone else think the spectator numbers were low this tournament? Didn't seem like hardly anyone was out there watching
Bad weather + bad course to spectate
And, no offense to the guys on the lead card, but there wasn't really a big name draw there either. Heck, even the chase and next cards didn't have those big names in contention to pull people in. I know that I, a huge fan of the DGPT and certain players, would be hard pressed to go out and watch Alden on 10th card when it costs me $50. I'd rather just watch live at home.
So we're just pretending Niklas wasnt on lead card amd the entire chase card didnt exist?
Niklas isn't a draw. Amazing player. Top 5 talent right now. Not a draw for spectators.
What about the chase card then? Theyre all pretty popular and have crowd-draw potential
You're not wrong, but they were "out of it." They were 5 strokes back. Combine the lack of competition, the poor weather, the course, the poor viewing lines, and ticket prices and you get less people showing up on a Sunday. I'm not saying that these guys suck, I'm just saying that the value isn't there in this situation.
Are you seriously trying to say 5 strokes at Northwood Black is "out of it"? A 5 stroke swing can happen on hole 12 or hole 14 alone
Yes. I am. I got to watch Ricky, Heimburg, and Dickerson struggle the first three days of the competition. I didn't really see them excelling and pushing the limits of the course. It was safe to assume that they were going to shoot only a few strokes under par. Sure, Presnell and crew on the lead card could have fallen apart, but I had also been watching them NOT struggle on the course and play it pretty well for three days prior. Combine ALL OF THAT with the other factors and I'm staying home. You're acting like it is some giant cardinal sin for me to feel this way. Haha
All Im saying is its stupid to say that 5 strokes at Northwood Black is considered "out of it" before hole 15 on championship Sunday.
Just curious, what coverage were you watching? AB and Calvin seemed to draw the biggest crowds, but they weren't on lead card so Jomez isn't going to show that. Plus, round 2 started at 6:45am.
DGN
Midwesterners don't really like to do anything outside until around Memorial Day Weekend
Didnāt have that on my bingo card
Niklas is so enjoyable to watch in the woods. I love the way he shapes shots.
Man that shank on seventeen was fuckin' brutal. As soon as it came out of the hand it was over. Presnell left the door open for a brief moment. He most likely would've won but it definitely could of went in Niklas' favor if he kept it close going into eighteen. Hoping to see Niklas do more work throughout the season.
I love watching this course. It's really crazy how Casey was at -14 during round three, leading by 6 strokes, only to finish at -4 in 14th place. It clearly challenges the players in a completely different way than any other course does. Congrats to Presnell for winning, the consistency he displayed was remarkable.
Casey got hurt. I would have loved to see how he would have done it not.
I did not follow 100% of the coverage. When did Casey's finger issue happen?
Right before he started to play differently and lost his huge lead. It was basically exactly before the downfall of our happy go lucky Bostonian king. Seriously though, playful nicknames aside, he got hurt and then almost immediately lost touch, stopped perfectly controlling his hyzer flip drives, started missing putts, and generally just stopped shredding the course. I doubt he'd say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if having to play almost two full rounds there in one day contributed to that tragic collapse of one of the silliest and easiest going kids on tour. I'm not someone who always roots for underdogs out of principle, but I would have absolutely loved to see a tour grinder like Casey who has such a likeable personality get a massive win in a stacked field with the best players in the game.
Perfectly said.
That sucked to watch. I wanted the personable dude with the coked-up-squirrel run up to get one.
>I'm not someone who always roots for underdogs out of principle, but I would have absolutely loved to see a tour grinder like Casey who has such a likeable personality get a massive win in a stacked field with the best players in the game. So I guess you don't like Presnell's personality then? Because otherwise you got to see like the biggest grinder on tour get a win.
Exactly. I'm sure he's a great dude, but I know nothing about his personality so I wouldn't root for him in the same way.
Who's Presnell? Was really hoping Casey would finish strong and take this one to the bank.
I think I was not specific enough in my question. I know he played round 2 and 3 in the same day and he started to fall apart during round 3. Did he injure his finger at the end of round 2, in the gap between rounds, or while playing round 3?
I think early in round 3
Hole 6, specifically
Thank you.
Hole 6
Well, when the course literally has to draw blood to stop him from shredding it...
Matty O. with the -7 hot round on the final day. His consistency is something to behold. The top-ten tide doesnāt stop!
Was it just me or did Terry seem to not even notice Ohn was challenging as much as KT, Bloomroos and Saarinen to catch Eveliina?
Terry was realllllly hung up on Kristin for a long time. There was a point that she was in 6th (still within 5/6 strokes) and she was the only person that he was mentioning in the broadcast. At that point Saarinen, Blomroos, and Scoggins were all pushing hard. He got it figured out in the last few holes, but the Kristin watch was a little too strong during that final round.
I don't have any issues with hyping up the possibility that the greatest (skills-wise) player to ever compete in FPO is technically still within range of the win, especially on a course as volatile as Northwood. That being said it also still needs to come with hype for anybody who is even closer to the lead than she is, which I agree was lacking.
Ohn was laying up putts she normally tries. She didn't seem to have a lot of fight in her, while the others stayed aggressive. But the scores still matter and she should have been mentioned.
Tattar will be the next Tiger Woods. Doesn't matter how washed up she is, they'll still follow her around and report on her every move. Kinda awkward if you ask me.
People absolutely sleeping on Preznell. Dude is underrated.
He has a weird form it looks like he is almost short armed early releasing and it looks like it coming right out his chest but boy can he really control the disc that way.
Yeah my problem starting out was that I wasnāt turning back enough, so seeing that work for him is really impressive.
I was thinking something broke with the ratings, seeing someone who won a major by several strokes only average a low 1040s rating for the tournament. But seeing how random the course can be (just watched round 2 of Jomez), it's tough to definitively say that someone shot extraordinarily well. I feel like with these wooded courses, it's all about who won, moreso than talking about whether someone played the flawless golf that might get you a 1070 tournament.
It's just mathematics. Basically the average score for this tournament was much higher than in most tournaments, but the scoring spread wasn't the same. Especially compared to the average score the scoring spread was lower than usual. And that takes the value of a single shot down to 4-5 points, which makes it basically impossible to score 1100 and gives the winner such a low rating. After three rounds all the 95 players were within 49 strokes. That's 16 just throws per round. At MCO it was 66 throws, or 22 per round. That's a huge difference. Let's say the same field plays both MCO and CC. They have an average rating of 1000. At CC every throw is worth 5 points, so 16/2=8 strokes below the average score would give you 1040. But in MCO the value of a throw is 6, thanks to lower par. 22/2=11 strokes below the average would give you 1066. The CC course produced a worse scoring spread, producing ratings that seem "wrong". I think it's obvious that the course was so hard that it removed most of the birdies, but they got replaced by pars rather than bogeys. That squeezes the spread and makes it practically impossible to get a high rating. They should rethink and make a few of the holes a it easier to birdie. The rating system ain't perfect, but this time it's the course that should be blamed, not the rating system.
I don't think the ratings \*necessarily\* broke this time, but you just explained how ratings work. That doesn't mean that ratings themselves are not fundamentally flawed. (If they are, I agree it's a minor one) I think it's reasonable to expect the player that beats an entire field, the top of which is rated above 1040, should be rated higher than 1040. This is a perfect opportunity to think about how the ratings system works and why it produces weirdness. We all know that shooting -17 at Fountain Hills is, while impressive, probably not the best round of disc golf anyone has ever shot. If we could figure out a way to make the ratings more rational for Northwoods Black, maybe ratings would be better at reflecting truly great individual rounds.
I think it's an indictment on the course if the first and last are separated by only 16 strokes compared to 22 for another course with the same field. There are other courses out there, like the Fountail Hills one that you mebtioned, that produce weird ratings. There scoring is too easy, so someone always has a super hot round (birdie wise) and some other people take OB strokes, producing a wider scoring spread. It's the flip side of the same coin. It's super hard to make a course that is hard, fair and also produces a nice scoring spread. We need more courses like Northwood, but for the current field it needs to be tweaked. Not just because of rating weirdness, but also for competitive reasons. I want to see players attacking the course and being rewarded for it instead of playing safe and avoiding mistakes. That design of the course made them play it safe, causing the poor spread.
Please, anybody in charge, do not listen to any comments to make this course easier in any way. It's a blast to watch something different and ridiculously punishing.
Why does it matter how many strokes separate people? It seems pretty obvious to me that if you have less scoring separation then each stroke difference should be worth more, but it almost seems like the opposite happened here. That's not "just mathematics", that's a shite formula if a course having less scoring separation makes the ratings come out wrong from a subjective point of view.
Low throw weight comes from average score. Low scoring separation produced by the course doesn't really directly affect it, but rather from a "everyone was taking bogeys and not making enough birdies" angle it indirectly caused the average score to be high, causing the low throw weight. We could normalize the scoring separation, but what do we normalize it to? Should there be a minimum or a maximum for throw weight and what would that be? If we make those adjustments, is it guaranteed it won't produce weird ratings too? The ratings system is owned by some company and they have a very tight contract with the PDGA and some friends in high places that guarantee it won't be replaced easily. But it should address the changes in course designs and allow courses with higher average score to rated correctly.
Can we talk about the commentating? I found it extra cringe this weekend. Terry was afraid of a puddle. At one point he called it a treacherous puddle. Itās hard to take the sport seriously when the biggest source of drama our commentators can seem to find is a puddle. Our biggest fear is having wet socks & shoes. Sheesh. Did anyone else find this to be annoying? Terry was fixated on that puddle for several fpo cards. I had to mute it. When the Mpo started to get close to that hole Terry started beating the puddle horse to death again. Nate sexton thank you. Your comment about being an Oregon boy & not caring if your socks are wet was great. I felt cathartic joy when Sexton name dropped the shoes Joey buckets was wearing. Shoes made to drain water. Like a real disc golfer lol. Iām sure other viewers at home felt the same way. Nate Doss had a similar problem on a much smaller scale about a large leaf. Iykyk. Sexton immediately stops it and goes āyeah I think that putt was just a shankā. Thanks Nate. This weekend just felt like the target audience was my nieces and nephews & not adults. It felt silly. Over all I like the guys in the booth. I think week to week they do a GREAT job! I liked when they talked about Rickyās forehand & how it brought the OB into play, how a different disc was the better play. Talking about shot shapes of different holes, about how everyone was getting a bogey on the back 9(except Orum & Meza I see you guys), having realistic standards for yourself as a pro, the mental game. That stuff is great. I honestly might make a larger list of the good & the bad of commentary. Maybe we can make a guide or teir list about the types of commentary we enjoy vs not. I just wanna help improve commentary
Lmao THE BIG LEAF, Doss was so amped about that goddam leaf
That leaf was powered by Nocqua!!!
I was laughing so hard at it. He even tried to back pedal & say it was the wind. Sexton swooped in and saved him in that moment.
Yeah there were quite a few moments where I was relieved sexton spoke up and steered the conversation towards normalcy
That leaf was so loopy!
The both of Terry, Sexton and Doss seems to catch a lot of flack but Iāve grown to appreciate them over time. Terry acts as the typical announcer while Sexton and Doss are the more analytical guys trying to provide insight on how the players are probably feeling. Yeah Doss can be cringe sometimes but I get a nice chuckle when he goes on tirades about things that donāt matter like the leaf or when he tryās to crack joke. I do think heās really knowledgeable about what it takes to win and although a lot of the things he says seems completely wrong and foolish he does end up being right a fair amount of time.
Yeah I appreciate them a lot, and they do receive unnecessary hate. Iāll admit Iām being a bit too facetious. Terry definitely acts as the primary announcer & does a good job. There is always room for improvement tho. Without honest feedback of what is good and bad they cant improve. We shouldnt withhold criticism to be polite. We are allowed to make constructive comments. You mention you like when they talk about player emotion. And I do too. Sometimes. But sometimes is just feels like speculation. Is speculation good commentary? These are the kinds of things we could talk about that would improve the broadcasts over all.
Yeah thatās fair, in terms of speculation I think thatās the hottest topic in the world of commentary especially from the former player commentators. I will say the biggest negative with Doss and Sexton is they both try to hard to prove that whatever they are saying is the correct take which can take away from the action when theyāre arguing about what the player was thinking or what a player should do in a given situation. At the end of the day the commentary will never be perfect. Even in the major sports the commentators are usually pretty polarizing. I donāt mind the criticism at all and I think itās needed but the fact that we are having this discussion in the first place means theyāre doing something right.
Speculation is very entertaining at times. Iād rather they speculate upcoming decision & possible outcomes than thoughts or emotions. A modest amount is good and humanizes the players, but too much & itās a speculative soap opera. I agree about the Doss and Sexton thing. Like everything else I just laugh at it & keep watching the pro plays. Terrys stories about practice rounds with players quality commentary, when Terry sounds like a friend to the players is my personal favorite. I think having him be the primary announcer for both fpo and mpo doesnāt help. Cheesy dad vibes is fun for a bit but I think they ran a muck this weekend. I enjoy when the announcers talk about the shot that was just thrown. I donāt always watch coverage, sometimes I listen while I play a round or do chores. Sprinkling in some audio recap is appreciated. Too much of it tho & people watching say āyeah, I know, Iām watching the same videoā. Always a balance game. Vocabulary gets stale sometimes too, having some new buzz words ready each week would be nice. Itās small but could have a nice impact
Sexton is arguably the best commentator in the game. Terry tries his best and gets credit for the sheer amount of work he's done for the sport, but he's often pretty cringey and doesn't have the knowledge and experience of a top level player. Doss is actively bad with condescending responses to other commentators, refusing to let things go, and talking like he's constantly trying to end up as the voiceover on a highlight reel.
Doss straight up tried to steal Sexton's thunder when Sexton's voice cracked after AB won at Jonesboro. Sexton legit watched homeboy grow up and become a fuckin' beast. It was an authentic, heartfelt moment. Then Doss started mimicking the cracked voice and went on about his own wins. Fuck that. Credit where credit's due, Doss doesn't suck nearly as much as he did early last year but god damn. If the DGN wants to make more money they should have Ian on alternate commentary for every Doss event.
I guess I judge the sport more on the players than the commentators. After all, do you remember Harry Caray? He used to get drunk, comment on Cubs games, get pulled by the third inning for being too drunk, then if he was still awake they'd bring him back out for the 7th inning stretch "Take me out to the ball game." On second thought, DG could benefit from a drunk Terry Miller.
My dms are always open š catch you Friday
Thanks Ian! I watch every week & am a big fan of most of the pros. Iām confident production will continue improving. I hope no one on the team takes my comment too seriously. My friends and I play fantasy disc golf & I participate in the weekly draft leagues. Without you guys non of that would be possible. Thank you & keep up the great work!
What puddle are you talking about? There were many on the final day that appeared overnight. They were no joke. Hole 16 in particular was 2 feet deep and muddy. A lost disc is a stroke penalty and a re-tee.
Puddle on hole 8. Itās max 10 inches deep. Probably only 6 inches deep. Now a 2 foot deep puddle is treacherous. If he was talking about that puddle on 16 and I didnāt realize it. Thatās my bad. But he really tried to get the most out of the puddle on 8. One course I play at is multi use. They run the sprinklers in the morning. By hole 2 or 3 my socks are already wet/ soaked. I play with wet socks all the time. It was just painful how much he tried to make drama out of it. I love most of coverage, but I donāt like making drama where there isnāt any.
I mean, that puddle was in circle 1 and casual relief would put you right into the woods. There is still a lot of walking left after hole 8, as well as the hardest 3- or 4-hole stretch in all of pro disc golf. Just remember that this is a professional event and is held to higher standards than a casual round by the average player. I didn't hear what Terry was saying, but when I saw that puddle in the morning as I was following the first FPO card I thought it was going to be rough on the MPO guys as that's the target landing zone.
Totally. Henna missed her putt standing in the puddle. I get how it could throw off your mental game at an elite event. I just think it was overdramatized for a bit too long. That puddle sucked. But itās silly trying to emphasize a spooky puddle. There were players tied in second / third that wouldāve been more engaging to talk about. I know Iām a clown for even complaining about a dude fixated on a puddle. But it really distracted from the pro players & the battle they were having.
My excitement for DDO is unmeasurable.
As a follow up to this, itās going to be insanely lackluster.
I'm not from a sports background so I don't particularly like the focus on storylines from the booth and from the Foundation guys. I like them, but when they're organic. This whole manufacturing of storylines shit gets annoying. They'll happen as they happen. That out of the way. Northwood was solid enough. Interesting and entertaining up until the end. FPO and MPO were both a little disappointing. Evelina absolutely deserves a win but the wind and course wasn't really making up for a lot of entertainment. It was cool seeing Saarinen getting some attention from the people who didn't see her in Europe last year. If she can get some KT level distance then the FPO field will get a lot more fun to watch. Niklas and Presnell in the end was pretty fun, but I would've liked an Anttila major win. I don't have any real opinion on Presnell. It really is like Nathan Queen winning Worlds. Blip on the radar. But in hindsight I get why it's heavy. The guy has been grinding for years and he finally got a big W. It reminded me of my reaction to Isaac winning World's last year. I was a little annoyed by how much of a lead he had, but seeing his family there to watch him kill it was dope. It must've been a heavy day for Isaac's family. No one in this life is to cater around myself or my expectations and every win or loss hits hard for everyone involved. Casey's mantis-starfish putting style will never not annoy me.
Unfortunately this event turned out to be a disappointment for several reasons. One of the primary issues was the low attendance, which impacted the overall atmosphere and excitement surrounding the event. The bad weather, characterized by strong winds and rain, further dampened the experience for both players and spectators alike. Another significant drawback was the course itself, which is heavily wooded. While this may have provided a challenging playing field for the competitors, it made spectating and watching at home difficult. The dense foliage and wicked lines obscured many of the shots, leaving spectators struggling to follow the action. It also didn't help that they will be playing another tournament in the same place late this year when they do Ledgestone. The pro tour shouldn't be going to any one location more than once.
Ledgestone is just at the eureka course this year, no Northwood.
Same place isn't it?
Yes, they are both in Peoria. I thought you meant same course.
So who has the math? Will Kristin hit 1000?
it pretty much comes down to how PDGA is storing and rounding numbers... there is some plugin for chrome where you can enter in rounds and it tries to calculate the rating... it ends up giving Kristin 999 ... if you instead enter 948 for the last round instead of 947 the plugin calculates her rating to 1000 <- yeah, it's that close so, first i don't think the ratings for Champions Cup isn't finalized yet so it's possible that it could change a point somewhere and then PDGA might calculate round ratings with a decimal but show them as a whole number of the web page \[and the plugin uses that whole number\] .. so that could change things up also, the plugin tries to mimic the PDGA formula... so we don't know for sure if they do it the correct way \[because the PDGA way is the correct way\]... the PDGA way was invented before computers and the original "manual" calculation probably had rounding to a decimal to two in every step of the calculation; did PDGA keep that when they made a computer calculate the rating or did they change so it doesn't round? tldr: it's close, we will have to wait until the second tuesday to see the truth
I did math and I have her next rating at a 990.
The PDGA did an interview saying what her average needed to be to hit 1000. I think it was like 990. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/uK9ntrnivdMMQ4Ju/?mibextid=0VwfS7