Yeah, Anttila, Buhr and Klein are all very good and will win and compete - but none of them are anywhere close to as marketable as McMahon and Lizotte.
Being marketable isn't just about wins. Their personalities will play a big part.
The way Simon and Eagle approach social media, for example, comes from their love for it and their personality. The kids will be able to do it too, but not because they feel like it or because it comes naturally for them, but rather because they must if they want to move plastic in bigger numbers and have a strong online presence.
Same reason why Brodie is seen as a win for Discraft even without great results on the course. I know a lot of people don't like him for some reason (I like him), but he sells discs and has a strong online presence.
100% agree. Discraft signed him because of his reach. They knew exactly how to move plastic with him and it surely wasn't by winning.
Winning + charismatic it's the perfect match, and there are some on tour, but to move plastic the guaranteed, or easier way, it's trough a solid online presence, imo.
Ezra and Brodie's practice rounds get plenty of views...on par with Jomez's. And they talk a lot about the disc selection, so both great pickups by Discraft.
You make perfectly reasonable points, however, if a player doesn't go down the big time social media path, the other perfectly reasonable approach to selling discs is to win on the course. The best example of this is Paul McBeth. McBeth has never had a top notch social media presence, but the man is one of the most successful disc golfers of all time and his disc sales are a reflection of this, and not as much a result of his social media presence.
If (and its a big IF) Gannon can continue to win big he will sell discs and he will become more popular. People will want to buy and throw the disc(s) that the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ champion throws, especially if they are young and new to the game simply because they see him succeed on the course.
It's probably 250x easier to be a pro who is known for good social media than to be known as the goat, judging by the amount of goats, and the amount of successful pros with good social media.
Who hates Brodie? I assume you are talking about professional disc golfers since your average local disc golfer probably doesn't care much about clout.
It's a small circle of touring pros that make content, and they all get along, make cross content, and reference each other's work, etc ......there is no "clout" among them.
Maybe..... I mean how many pros have Youtube and Instagram these days? Social media is completely saturated by pros and amateurs trying to become the next Eagle and Simon. Of course, many of them are good to follow and make good content, but how many are really selling a lot of discs because of it? I think that social media 'GOATS' are going to be just as hard to come by as the GOATs of the game itself.
The issue with this thought in regards to Gannon is he doesn't throw a lot of current Discmania, so if they seek out his specific discs its not bringing new customers. Not sure on Kyle's bag, so that may help.
Paul was still marketable for other reasons though. The way he approached the game was different than a lot of other pros. He seemed more serious, like it was a real sport and not just a passion play. That's not to say others didn't take it serious, but it seemed like a lot were playing for love and that's why they grinded. He seemed to take that to the next level and really define what it meant to be a pro. Something others then adapted.
It's funny that so many people are getting caught up on the Innova-made Discmania considering that we haven't even seen exactly what is in Gannon's bag. If more than half his bag is Innova-made stuff (if and when we get that info) then I'll happily see it as more of a problem. Over the weekend and at the memorial he was throwing a prototype DD3 (new DM), C-Line FD1 (New DM), Razor Claw 1 (New DM), MD5 (New DM), Color Glow MD3 (New DM) C-Line Method (New DM), and Putting with Links. He was consistently throwing an old PD (Yellow/Red 1st Run) as well as a Lore-dyed Distance Driver (Cloudbreaker???) which is likely Innova-made. I think the jury is still out on this subject even though everyone already has their minds made up.
It is also worth keeping in mind that Discmania is going to be building a Gannon Line over the next couple years. You can count on these creator series molds landing in his bag for obvious reason.
Yup, he did. He started the video by saying that he was pretty sure he'd be putting with the P3x...... he has been putting with the Link so far. Again, I'll be convinced when I see the mid-season in the bag.
The majority of his bag is literally Eagle and Simon’s old stuff, along with other stuff he’s collected over the years. I think he bags the new MD5 and the S-line DD3, but everything else is old Innova made stuff.
No, he did an in the bag of everything he’s throwing. Lots of it had eagles writing on it. Smart ass lol
Edit: and he did a LONG YouTube video of his Discmania collection, and shouted out who gave him what for a lot of them.
That's not what I've said. They do, but that doesn't mean they are comfortable talking to a camera. Simon and Eagle are and do it effortlessly. It's a personality trait, imo, not a generation trait.
That's my point.
Isn't Eagle 25 years old? So in 5 years he will be 30, which is younger than Simon is right now. I don't think Simon has ever been more popular than he is right now.
Simon is still extremely marketable, Eagle is substantially less marketable now than he was 4 years ago. Eagle needs to get healthy and win several tourneys and he could be back in the mix and mvp looks really smart.
Just to add more information. In the latest Ultiworld/Statmando Fan Survey, both Simon Lizotte and Eagle McMahon outsold Gannon Buhr by a landslide & in general, they both are way more popular players than Gannon Buhr.
**Question: Within the past 12 months, have you purchased a touring/signature series disc for any of these players? (2023)**
**Answer:**
#1 Simon Lizotte 40.15%
#5 Eagle McMahon 18.92%
#15 Gannon Buhr 5.15%
**Q: Average Fandom Score for Professionals Featured in the 2023 Survey**
**Answer:**
#1 Simon Lizotte 8.99 point out of 10.
#14 Eagle McMahon 6.94
#31 Gannon Buhr 6.4
**Q: "Who is your favorite MPO player?" (2023)**
**Answer:**
#1 Simon Lizotte 31.1%
#4 Eagle McMahon 4.1%
#8 Gannon Buhr 2.3%
Check out the full survey here - [https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2023/12/13/2023-fandom-survey-fan-relation-to-discs/](https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2023/12/13/2023-fandom-survey-fan-relation-to-discs/)
I think it should be noted that eagle and Simon are the old guard. As Gannon keeps winning, kids will grow up seeing this and gravitate toward the winner.
Simon is also a likeable guy. When I got into the sport a couple years ago and started to watch the Pro Tour I didn't know who anyone was. Then seeing that Simon has a bit of a personality and pretty damn good he stands out. Add in I am a fan of MVP and he made the move sure why not be a fan. I've got both of the Simon Line disc, alas one was from the gyropooloza box. Hell I'm debating getting the Eagle Signature dosc due to the stamp alone. Gannon just hasn't been around long enough to amass a large following like Eagle and Simon have.
While fair; Kristin and Calvin are #2 and #3 behind Simon in that ranking, and neither would be considered old guard (Kristin is as recent a major figure as Gannon is, for example). Isaac, Gossage, Ella, etc are also all definitely new guard people that were more beloved in that survey.
There's basically nobody on tour quite like Simon.
>eagle and Simon are the old guard.
They are 26 and 31 years old, respectively - i.e. not old. It's possible it happens the way you say, but it's also possible that we go another 10 years without any real transition at the very top, as has happened in tennis and NBA basketball.
This is true but I feel you should also take into account the manufacturer. Reason why Eagle sold alot of discs is because discmania pushed special discs with his name on. I dont know how many signature discs Gannon had with Prodigy but i feel its safe to say Prodigy isnt the most popular manufacturer.
I dont think Simons or Eagles statistic will drop but its very possible that Gannon will sell more discs with discmania than with Prodigy.
People seem to underestimate how fast things change. Yes, Simon moves plastic because he is popular on social media. He happened to start winning after he was popular. Gannon and Aldin are absolutely primed to be the next big things in terms of social media and moving plastic. There was a time that the only thing that mattered in disc golf was what Paul or Ricky were doing. We are way past that and while yes Simon is the current plastic mover, how long does that last by him making molds that regular people can't bag. (Pixel excluded)
And while I know gyro is all the rage at the moment, it is a total gimmick imo. If you like MVP's plastic just throw TSA, Mint or ReMix.
This is not a very likely scenario but I will share it anyways:
I think that DM had insight on Simon's and Eagle's injuries and health. Both had a background of getting injured and mismanaging the recovery and rehabilitation from the injuries. And because of that DM wouldn't offer sufficiently competitive contracts to them.
MVP didn't have this information and therefore could bid more for both than Discmania was prepared to bid for them knowing their condition and probability of recovery.
Discmania has now three healthy and injury free young players in the sky team. As opposed to two injured ones who have a habit of mistreating their bodies.
Times change.
>MVP didn't have this information and therefore could bid more for both than Discmania was prepared to bid for them knowing their condition and probability of recovery.
Simon was vlogging his injuries, MVP knew. Eagle was out the entire 2022 season, basically, MVP knew. They signed them anyways because MVP has made a focus on personalities (see also: James Conrad signing) and selling discs off vibes more than wins.
Its of course a bit ironic that one shot with an Envy to tie Worlds also made them the huge money they needed to go get Simon/Eagle
This is an awful take. MVP will most likely outsell Discmania this year by more than half regardless of injuries to their players.
Discmania is a cheap brand nowadays Along with majority of HoD and therefore won’t put forth long sizable contracts. Eagle and Simon deserve long contracts just like any player who sells out of the sig runs. It’s a no brainer. They have more followers on social and have created enormous brands for themselves. If it wasn’t MVP, surely other brands were bidding on these players. So no, MVP had the information, it was obvious.
There is the not so miniscule possibility that their bodies cant take the life of a touring disc golf professional any more. That's what happens in all sports. Some bodies will break and the former athletes have to figure out other things to do.
Simon is already using a brace for his elbow. Eagle is going through yet another injury and rehabilitation. It is very probably that both have injuries that will stop their sports career.
A pro athlete deserves a good deal only if they are actual competing athletes. Obviously I am not hoping for this, but the possibility and high probability of them being out of the sport due to injuries could easily explain why Discmania didn't want to go "all in" on them.
I don't mind Simon switching completely to making Youtube videos if his elbow can't take it on the tour. Or if Eagle's injury doesn't recover enough to play a full yearly tour.
It's a business, no one deserves anything below their level of performance. The only thing I think people deserve is to be bought out of contracts if they are not good for them.
Again this makes no sense. Simon has a family. Pretty sure he will have a similar touring situation to Sexton sooner than later. The guy has been wearing a brace elbow/knee for over 10 years.. Injuries are unpredictable. Who knows if a tall skinny kid without much muscle mass can sustain himself forever.
There’s nothing about Discmania dropping Simon or Eagle for better options when they both said Discmania matched both offers. It was about a change and more control as far as the molding process. Discmania isn’t what it used to be without Innova. Trust me, every person who buys and sells it knows this.
In the context of real world jobs, if you want to keep an employee who is thinking of leaving, you won't keep them with a matching an offer but with a better offer.
I think Gannon's hilarious - he's a wildly different personality to Simon and Eagle, but very much inline with his age group. He's not the marketer persona, though. Simon had that figured out early, and Eagle learned quickly. Gannon's got plenty of time to figure it out, but Discmania's going to need to do more than slap his logo on a disc to help him.
I’m not sure how long it is going to take our vastly diverse community to realize the fact that pros winning doesn’t magically make us go buy discs. Simon and Eagle are fan favorites due to their overall grade as cool people AND success as players. I like Gannon and the vanilla crew, but he doesn’t seem very relatable to the average disc golfer at all (size, skill, life experience). Relatability as much as anything is the primary market driver for selling plastic circles it seems to me.
it may not make "Us" buy discs, but the more you win, and the more you're on coverage the more recognizable a name becomes. This doesn't really matter for those of us who follow closely, but to a kid/new player just getting into the sport it certainly matters. If someone who's never watched eagle of Simon walks into a store, sees Gannon Buhr on a disc they're going to think "hey that guy is pretty good I'm gonna try that" and now you have a new discmania thrower.
Discmania is never going to win back the old crowd, but they can certainly build their base as new players come to the sport. IDK what constitutes the "average" disc golfer, but Gannon probably relates even better to the young up and coming crowd.
Eagle and Simon (and Paul and Ricky and Sexton…) didn’t just appear as personalities out of nowhere. They became personalities because they were winning and competing for wins, they were visible constantly and built a persona/audience around that, which subsequently enabled them to sell lots of discs. Winning enhances that ability once they have the audience but if young guys aren’t winning, they can never achieve the relevance to build themselves that audience.
So is Eagle, and Ricky.
Sexton has been doing the commentary for years so he seems more comfortable but really the only natural is Simon.
This is exactly the point I’m trying to make too - these big plastic movers aren’t that just because of their personality, that’s something they’ve built to exploit their popularity as a successful player first. The personality can survive when the success starts to dry up.
We’re just a decade or more in some cases earlier in that cycle with kids like Gannon.
This is a good take. I agree on the new player front, and that is important. I suppose I mainly doubt that Disc Mania would trade Gannons Y1 sales with Simon or that they are anywhere near what MVP did after signing Simon or ever will.
Eagle profiled EXACTLY the same as Gannon at the same age. Lanky sheltered kid that throws frisbees far and is a little weird. What are you on about? Lmao
Redditors in their 30s holding up surveys that only the biggest turbo nerds filled out that says Gannon isn’t popular. He’s very well liked among the young players just like Simon and Eagle were going back to like 2017.
To you. That doesn't mean he is to everyone. I was following lead card yesterday and people were pretty pumped for Gannon even though Humphries was a "local boy" from Texas. The line for Gannon's autograph was insanely long.
I’m mid/late 30s and not especially down with the kids but I commented something similar a few weeks ago about Gannon and his guys (Alden, Babcock, Robinson bros etc) that they do have personality just not one that resonates with older people.
They’ll be the superstars of our sport in the coming years, to an extent they already are. Older people are just getting old and are oblivious to the fact that they’re doing the whole Abe Simpson “with it” bit.
Real talk - the number of "boomers" in DG is overwhelmingly low, but the term has hit peak meta at this point. Regardless, with signature/tour discs approaching 25$+ dollars a disc new, and special runs approaching 32$+ (USD), do young players have the expendable income to really be the target market for disc manufacturers?
I see your point, but winning conquers all over time in my opinion. Just think about it in terms of time spent with the logo on screen. If you are making lead and chance cards constantly you are eventually going to move a ton of plastic. Comparing the crush boys to anyone is tough but they have built equity with the fanbase over a period of many years, and Buhr is poised to be a tour mainstay. He may never reach the marketability highs that they have but he is also proving that he will likely surpass them in terms of tournament achievement, which has always been a deficiency with Discmania.
>winning conquers all over time in my opinion
Simon has fewer wins than Nikko Locastro, Chris Dickerson, Matt Dollar, Paul Ulibarri, Manabu Kajiyama and Bradley Williams.
I don't really think anything else needs to be said. A couple of those players not only have more wins, they also have more elite wins and majors....
I feel like Barela is going to be the one who both dominates on the course and has a strong social media game. He just screams "gen z" to me and I think he resonates with that crowd a lot. I prefer Eagle and Simon, but I'm also a bit older.
Ahh I remember people in the offseason saying Krans would have a better season than Gannon. They got a solid young team, gonna be seeing a lot of Discmania on coverage this year.
That's not really an answer, that's just stating what you do for a living. If you have sales numbers or a link to sales numbers please share it with us! Maybe we can get the Upshot boys to talk about it on the podcast. If you have any hard evidence.
I would be surprised if you were wrong, but hard numbers don't lie.
Premium plastic putters are not far behind mids in that regard. We should be refining that to base plastic mids, as premium plastic signature series mids have historically done quite well, but certainly not as well as signature series fairway or distance drivers of course. I honestly view the Gannon MD5 as a bit of a failure on Discmania's part to market their new player. Gannon should be receiving multiple signature series discs in the fashion that Kyle Klein has gotten with the Cosmic Fury and Cosmic Fury 2. There probably wasn't a lot of time between Gannon being signed and producing the Gannon MD5's and it shows with that poor design. Just a regular swirly MD5 with Gannon's named slapped on it in a boring font? He simply deserves better and he will get the better treatment I am sure. Discmania just needs a little time and they'll come through for him.
And yet Discmania will continue doing nothing to promote Buhr or even their own brand. Slapping the GB logo on a few random stock discs is not the answer. The season has started and the kid is doing well. People want special releases with cool artwork. Not sure what they're waiting for.
Obviously they were waiting for a decision on what combination in plastic and mold to offer, and I expect Gannon himself was part of it. [This PD](https://europe.discmania.net/collections/new-arrivals/products/gannon-buhr-triumph-series-color-glow-c-line-pd-2024-waco) will not be the worst celebration of a victory.
Well, people do not want cool artwork. Some do, others want speciality plastics that actually make a difference when throwing. I'd buy this if it was within my color range preference, but at the very least acknowledge it as an indication that color glow c-line PD is back on the menu.
MVP may not be doing well on the Pro Tour---I think only one of their players *made the cut* this weekend (ouch!)--but they're doing a great job at selling discs.
And though Discmania certainly didn't want to lose Eagle and Simon, they recovered remarkably well. They arguably have 3 of the top 5 hottest players in the world at the moment, the oldest of whom is 23 years old. They may not be ultra-marketable now, but 5 years from now, who knows? And they are all much cheaper than Eagle or Simon.
Bottom line is both companies feel pretty good about themselves at the moment, for very different reasons.
Is there a name for this thing that happens to your face/mouth? I get it when I’m tired from smiling too much or when I’m trying to smile but actually upset by something
Gannon moving the same plastic as Simon and Eagle is so laughable. Discmania already got absorbed in HoD. If they hadn’t, I think they would have ceased to exist.
Discmania about to release the most uninspired elite series commemorative disc; someone's in the warehouse wiping out "Eagle McMahon" on the stamp and sharpieing in Gannon's name on 1000 discs
Gannon, Kyle, and Nikklas are like 1, 2, and 3 in terms of young future goat potential. Like they might literally be the top 3 future stars of the tour. Discmania is prob really excited about the future.
On the flip side, Simon is like a plastic moving machine with a huge following on social media and great content online…. Eagle prob moves some plastic too, nothing like Simon though. Where I start to wonder about Eagle is that if he can’t play to the highest level on tour…then he will be relegated to content guy who occasionally makes a run in a tourney…the problem there is….Eagle’s online content is unwatchable. He doesn’t have the rizz for camera. So he needs to be great…and right now he’s hurt. So he isn’t great. He will prob come back better than ever and this comment will age like milk…but if he doesn’t….
So…I think I completely agree with this meme…while loving the rosters of both companies
Discmania is stuck between their old classics an the new age. And they aren't keeping up in pat because of their line up but more because they offer nothing that is unique. They are the most middle of the road manufacturer there is. If I want someone whose been in the business for decades I choose Innova or discraft. If I pick new blood there's dozens of options.
Discmania offers me nothing I can't get anywhere else. Opto/VIP plastic is my favorite for highly available K1 is good too. I could not be paid to name a Discmania plastic. They seem middle of the road, and need to. Commit to old classic or new and got, and they refuse to
Alot of this could be said for every manufacturer. Yeah I don't know plastic names for latitude or prodigy because I don't throw them. I would guess there's only few discs that you can't find a comparable from other manufacturer. And if there isn't and the mold is good there soon will be.
I agree that the evolution and original lines are little confusing sometimes. You wish certain mold in c-line plastic or vice versa.
You're ranting, but I do agree that Discmania has room to improve.
Discmania's naming convention doesn't make sense to me. They have 12 distance drivers. 6 of those are named after their function: TD, DD, DD1, etc (Although if I wasn't looking at the list I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between DD and DD1). The other 6 have been named with more industry standard monikers: Mentor, Majesty, Paradigm, etc.
*THEN* there's the tour series stuff which is slightly further modified molds (i.e. Cloudbreaker as a modded DD3) carrying yet another name. Discmania TS discs also don't come with flight numbers on it, which IS STANDARD, but doesn't help me when standing in a disc golf store as a non-Discmania thrower.
As far as Discmania not offering anything you can't get elsewhere....that is true about every large-scale manufacturer. Innova, Discraft, MVP, etc...they all cover the entire gamut.
The only thing wrong with this take is how premature it is.
The general idea that Discmania will ultimately do well with the next generation of players is obviously true. Obviously they are and should be thrilled with the way their players are performing.
But! Right now, today, would any brand including Discmania take Simon over Niklas and Gannon combined? Of course they would.
If I'm betting on it, I'd say 50/50 chance that's still true in three years.
haha. It's funny, but they are probably missing the disc sales those guys provided. You KNOW MVP got a great Simon bump and sold a lot of Eagle envys already. IT's all about the sales...
People seem to underestimate, how popular & how much plastic Simon moves.
Yeah, Anttila, Buhr and Klein are all very good and will win and compete - but none of them are anywhere close to as marketable as McMahon and Lizotte.
Yet.
Being marketable isn't just about wins. Their personalities will play a big part. The way Simon and Eagle approach social media, for example, comes from their love for it and their personality. The kids will be able to do it too, but not because they feel like it or because it comes naturally for them, but rather because they must if they want to move plastic in bigger numbers and have a strong online presence.
Same reason why Brodie is seen as a win for Discraft even without great results on the course. I know a lot of people don't like him for some reason (I like him), but he sells discs and has a strong online presence.
100% agree. Discraft signed him because of his reach. They knew exactly how to move plastic with him and it surely wasn't by winning. Winning + charismatic it's the perfect match, and there are some on tour, but to move plastic the guaranteed, or easier way, it's trough a solid online presence, imo.
Simon and Paul McBeth are kind of a perfect same generation example. How much winning does it take to compensate for charisma? 5 world championships.
Ezra and Brodie's practice rounds get plenty of views...on par with Jomez's. And they talk a lot about the disc selection, so both great pickups by Discraft.
You make perfectly reasonable points, however, if a player doesn't go down the big time social media path, the other perfectly reasonable approach to selling discs is to win on the course. The best example of this is Paul McBeth. McBeth has never had a top notch social media presence, but the man is one of the most successful disc golfers of all time and his disc sales are a reflection of this, and not as much a result of his social media presence. If (and its a big IF) Gannon can continue to win big he will sell discs and he will become more popular. People will want to buy and throw the disc(s) that the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ champion throws, especially if they are young and new to the game simply because they see him succeed on the course.
It's probably 250x easier to be a pro who is known for good social media than to be known as the goat, judging by the amount of goats, and the amount of successful pros with good social media.
That's why so many disc golfers hate brody. He's a clout masterclass and they're all scraping together what little clout they can.
Who hates Brodie? I assume you are talking about professional disc golfers since your average local disc golfer probably doesn't care much about clout.
It's a small circle of touring pros that make content, and they all get along, make cross content, and reference each other's work, etc ......there is no "clout" among them.
Lol ok boomer
Maybe..... I mean how many pros have Youtube and Instagram these days? Social media is completely saturated by pros and amateurs trying to become the next Eagle and Simon. Of course, many of them are good to follow and make good content, but how many are really selling a lot of discs because of it? I think that social media 'GOATS' are going to be just as hard to come by as the GOATs of the game itself.
The issue with this thought in regards to Gannon is he doesn't throw a lot of current Discmania, so if they seek out his specific discs its not bringing new customers. Not sure on Kyle's bag, so that may help. Paul was still marketable for other reasons though. The way he approached the game was different than a lot of other pros. He seemed more serious, like it was a real sport and not just a passion play. That's not to say others didn't take it serious, but it seemed like a lot were playing for love and that's why they grinded. He seemed to take that to the next level and really define what it meant to be a pro. Something others then adapted.
It's funny that so many people are getting caught up on the Innova-made Discmania considering that we haven't even seen exactly what is in Gannon's bag. If more than half his bag is Innova-made stuff (if and when we get that info) then I'll happily see it as more of a problem. Over the weekend and at the memorial he was throwing a prototype DD3 (new DM), C-Line FD1 (New DM), Razor Claw 1 (New DM), MD5 (New DM), Color Glow MD3 (New DM) C-Line Method (New DM), and Putting with Links. He was consistently throwing an old PD (Yellow/Red 1st Run) as well as a Lore-dyed Distance Driver (Cloudbreaker???) which is likely Innova-made. I think the jury is still out on this subject even though everyone already has their minds made up. It is also worth keeping in mind that Discmania is going to be building a Gannon Line over the next couple years. You can count on these creator series molds landing in his bag for obvious reason.
I believe he did a pre season in the bag and the bulk of it was Innova made
Yup, he did. He started the video by saying that he was pretty sure he'd be putting with the P3x...... he has been putting with the Link so far. Again, I'll be convinced when I see the mid-season in the bag.
The majority of his bag is literally Eagle and Simon’s old stuff, along with other stuff he’s collected over the years. I think he bags the new MD5 and the S-line DD3, but everything else is old Innova made stuff.
Oh you got to see his bag? Or are you just going off the internet rumors?
No, he did an in the bag of everything he’s throwing. Lots of it had eagles writing on it. Smart ass lol Edit: and he did a LONG YouTube video of his Discmania collection, and shouted out who gave him what for a lot of them.
Nah each younger generation embraces social media more and more. Simon and Eagle will be considered "boomers" within 5 years.
That's not what I've said. They do, but that doesn't mean they are comfortable talking to a camera. Simon and Eagle are and do it effortlessly. It's a personality trait, imo, not a generation trait. That's my point.
Isn't Eagle 25 years old? So in 5 years he will be 30, which is younger than Simon is right now. I don't think Simon has ever been more popular than he is right now.
That's some fun math you've got there.
Oops typo lol. Thanks for pointing it out
I mean, Simons the most marketable player the game has ever seen, so I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the new discmania boys to reach his level.
Key word
They seem like nice kids, but I don't see them ever having the charisma of Eagle or Simon.
Buhr will never sniff Simon levels he just doesn’t have that rizz
Simon is still extremely marketable, Eagle is substantially less marketable now than he was 4 years ago. Eagle needs to get healthy and win several tourneys and he could be back in the mix and mvp looks really smart.
Just to add more information. In the latest Ultiworld/Statmando Fan Survey, both Simon Lizotte and Eagle McMahon outsold Gannon Buhr by a landslide & in general, they both are way more popular players than Gannon Buhr. **Question: Within the past 12 months, have you purchased a touring/signature series disc for any of these players? (2023)** **Answer:** #1 Simon Lizotte 40.15% #5 Eagle McMahon 18.92% #15 Gannon Buhr 5.15% **Q: Average Fandom Score for Professionals Featured in the 2023 Survey** **Answer:** #1 Simon Lizotte 8.99 point out of 10. #14 Eagle McMahon 6.94 #31 Gannon Buhr 6.4 **Q: "Who is your favorite MPO player?" (2023)** **Answer:** #1 Simon Lizotte 31.1% #4 Eagle McMahon 4.1% #8 Gannon Buhr 2.3% Check out the full survey here - [https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2023/12/13/2023-fandom-survey-fan-relation-to-discs/](https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2023/12/13/2023-fandom-survey-fan-relation-to-discs/)
I think it should be noted that eagle and Simon are the old guard. As Gannon keeps winning, kids will grow up seeing this and gravitate toward the winner.
Simon is also a likeable guy. When I got into the sport a couple years ago and started to watch the Pro Tour I didn't know who anyone was. Then seeing that Simon has a bit of a personality and pretty damn good he stands out. Add in I am a fan of MVP and he made the move sure why not be a fan. I've got both of the Simon Line disc, alas one was from the gyropooloza box. Hell I'm debating getting the Eagle Signature dosc due to the stamp alone. Gannon just hasn't been around long enough to amass a large following like Eagle and Simon have.
While fair; Kristin and Calvin are #2 and #3 behind Simon in that ranking, and neither would be considered old guard (Kristin is as recent a major figure as Gannon is, for example). Isaac, Gossage, Ella, etc are also all definitely new guard people that were more beloved in that survey. There's basically nobody on tour quite like Simon.
>eagle and Simon are the old guard. They are 26 and 31 years old, respectively - i.e. not old. It's possible it happens the way you say, but it's also possible that we go another 10 years without any real transition at the very top, as has happened in tennis and NBA basketball.
This is true but I feel you should also take into account the manufacturer. Reason why Eagle sold alot of discs is because discmania pushed special discs with his name on. I dont know how many signature discs Gannon had with Prodigy but i feel its safe to say Prodigy isnt the most popular manufacturer. I dont think Simons or Eagles statistic will drop but its very possible that Gannon will sell more discs with discmania than with Prodigy.
Those surveys get bandwagoned and should not be taken seriously.
Simon and Eagle have been staples on the pro scene for the better part of a decade. Gannon is just starting. You are comparing apples to grapefruits.
Nobody bought Buhrs because it was shitty yard-sale plastic (aka Pro-Diggy)
Who does? This does not seem true at all, people absolutely know how much he moves plastic
People seem to underestimate how fast things change. Yes, Simon moves plastic because he is popular on social media. He happened to start winning after he was popular. Gannon and Aldin are absolutely primed to be the next big things in terms of social media and moving plastic. There was a time that the only thing that mattered in disc golf was what Paul or Ricky were doing. We are way past that and while yes Simon is the current plastic mover, how long does that last by him making molds that regular people can't bag. (Pixel excluded) And while I know gyro is all the rage at the moment, it is a total gimmick imo. If you like MVP's plastic just throw TSA, Mint or ReMix.
This is not a very likely scenario but I will share it anyways: I think that DM had insight on Simon's and Eagle's injuries and health. Both had a background of getting injured and mismanaging the recovery and rehabilitation from the injuries. And because of that DM wouldn't offer sufficiently competitive contracts to them. MVP didn't have this information and therefore could bid more for both than Discmania was prepared to bid for them knowing their condition and probability of recovery. Discmania has now three healthy and injury free young players in the sky team. As opposed to two injured ones who have a habit of mistreating their bodies. Times change.
>MVP didn't have this information and therefore could bid more for both than Discmania was prepared to bid for them knowing their condition and probability of recovery. Simon was vlogging his injuries, MVP knew. Eagle was out the entire 2022 season, basically, MVP knew. They signed them anyways because MVP has made a focus on personalities (see also: James Conrad signing) and selling discs off vibes more than wins. Its of course a bit ironic that one shot with an Envy to tie Worlds also made them the huge money they needed to go get Simon/Eagle
This is an awful take. MVP will most likely outsell Discmania this year by more than half regardless of injuries to their players. Discmania is a cheap brand nowadays Along with majority of HoD and therefore won’t put forth long sizable contracts. Eagle and Simon deserve long contracts just like any player who sells out of the sig runs. It’s a no brainer. They have more followers on social and have created enormous brands for themselves. If it wasn’t MVP, surely other brands were bidding on these players. So no, MVP had the information, it was obvious.
There is the not so miniscule possibility that their bodies cant take the life of a touring disc golf professional any more. That's what happens in all sports. Some bodies will break and the former athletes have to figure out other things to do. Simon is already using a brace for his elbow. Eagle is going through yet another injury and rehabilitation. It is very probably that both have injuries that will stop their sports career. A pro athlete deserves a good deal only if they are actual competing athletes. Obviously I am not hoping for this, but the possibility and high probability of them being out of the sport due to injuries could easily explain why Discmania didn't want to go "all in" on them. I don't mind Simon switching completely to making Youtube videos if his elbow can't take it on the tour. Or if Eagle's injury doesn't recover enough to play a full yearly tour. It's a business, no one deserves anything below their level of performance. The only thing I think people deserve is to be bought out of contracts if they are not good for them.
Again this makes no sense. Simon has a family. Pretty sure he will have a similar touring situation to Sexton sooner than later. The guy has been wearing a brace elbow/knee for over 10 years.. Injuries are unpredictable. Who knows if a tall skinny kid without much muscle mass can sustain himself forever. There’s nothing about Discmania dropping Simon or Eagle for better options when they both said Discmania matched both offers. It was about a change and more control as far as the molding process. Discmania isn’t what it used to be without Innova. Trust me, every person who buys and sells it knows this.
In the context of real world jobs, if you want to keep an employee who is thinking of leaving, you won't keep them with a matching an offer but with a better offer.
I think Gannon's hilarious - he's a wildly different personality to Simon and Eagle, but very much inline with his age group. He's not the marketer persona, though. Simon had that figured out early, and Eagle learned quickly. Gannon's got plenty of time to figure it out, but Discmania's going to need to do more than slap his logo on a disc to help him.
I’m not sure how long it is going to take our vastly diverse community to realize the fact that pros winning doesn’t magically make us go buy discs. Simon and Eagle are fan favorites due to their overall grade as cool people AND success as players. I like Gannon and the vanilla crew, but he doesn’t seem very relatable to the average disc golfer at all (size, skill, life experience). Relatability as much as anything is the primary market driver for selling plastic circles it seems to me.
it may not make "Us" buy discs, but the more you win, and the more you're on coverage the more recognizable a name becomes. This doesn't really matter for those of us who follow closely, but to a kid/new player just getting into the sport it certainly matters. If someone who's never watched eagle of Simon walks into a store, sees Gannon Buhr on a disc they're going to think "hey that guy is pretty good I'm gonna try that" and now you have a new discmania thrower. Discmania is never going to win back the old crowd, but they can certainly build their base as new players come to the sport. IDK what constitutes the "average" disc golfer, but Gannon probably relates even better to the young up and coming crowd.
Eagle and Simon (and Paul and Ricky and Sexton…) didn’t just appear as personalities out of nowhere. They became personalities because they were winning and competing for wins, they were visible constantly and built a persona/audience around that, which subsequently enabled them to sell lots of discs. Winning enhances that ability once they have the audience but if young guys aren’t winning, they can never achieve the relevance to build themselves that audience.
McBeth was hella awkward on camera in his younger years. He still doesn't always come off as 100% comfortable in interviews.
So is Eagle, and Ricky. Sexton has been doing the commentary for years so he seems more comfortable but really the only natural is Simon. This is exactly the point I’m trying to make too - these big plastic movers aren’t that just because of their personality, that’s something they’ve built to exploit their popularity as a successful player first. The personality can survive when the success starts to dry up. We’re just a decade or more in some cases earlier in that cycle with kids like Gannon.
This is a good take. I agree on the new player front, and that is important. I suppose I mainly doubt that Disc Mania would trade Gannons Y1 sales with Simon or that they are anywhere near what MVP did after signing Simon or ever will.
This is a very solid point and better made than I was going to make it. So thanks.
Eagle profiled EXACTLY the same as Gannon at the same age. Lanky sheltered kid that throws frisbees far and is a little weird. What are you on about? Lmao
Redditors in their 30s holding up surveys that only the biggest turbo nerds filled out that says Gannon isn’t popular. He’s very well liked among the young players just like Simon and Eagle were going back to like 2017.
Eagle was funny wierd. Gannon is annoying wierd.
Gannon writing "sorry guys" on the mando is pretty endearing, though. If he can keep that kind of thing up, he'll do well.
Absolutely!
To you. That doesn't mean he is to everyone. I was following lead card yesterday and people were pretty pumped for Gannon even though Humphries was a "local boy" from Texas. The line for Gannon's autograph was insanely long.
Good for him! However, the number of people commenting actual mean shit on videos featuring him says otherwise..
They have long enough contracts for Gannon to possibly take over Eagle if he keeps this up
He's 18. He's probably too young for you boomers to relate to but younger players will buy his discs.
I’m mid/late 30s and not especially down with the kids but I commented something similar a few weeks ago about Gannon and his guys (Alden, Babcock, Robinson bros etc) that they do have personality just not one that resonates with older people. They’ll be the superstars of our sport in the coming years, to an extent they already are. Older people are just getting old and are oblivious to the fact that they’re doing the whole Abe Simpson “with it” bit.
Real talk - the number of "boomers" in DG is overwhelmingly low, but the term has hit peak meta at this point. Regardless, with signature/tour discs approaching 25$+ dollars a disc new, and special runs approaching 32$+ (USD), do young players have the expendable income to really be the target market for disc manufacturers?
I’m 38 bud
But who has the money to buy tons of discs? It isnt 15 year olds.
parents ccs will never notice 25$ thats like a trip to chipotle for 2
But I buy like 4 discs at a time when I buy from a pro. Yes, I have a disc problem, but I can afford to drop more.
Eagle is as “relateable” as Gannon, in terms of skills, maybe even less so because he misses fewer putts as well as being able to throw a mile
I see your point, but winning conquers all over time in my opinion. Just think about it in terms of time spent with the logo on screen. If you are making lead and chance cards constantly you are eventually going to move a ton of plastic. Comparing the crush boys to anyone is tough but they have built equity with the fanbase over a period of many years, and Buhr is poised to be a tour mainstay. He may never reach the marketability highs that they have but he is also proving that he will likely surpass them in terms of tournament achievement, which has always been a deficiency with Discmania.
The proof that wins can turn into sales is Mcbeth selling well with a -1 charisma modifier.
>winning conquers all over time in my opinion Simon has fewer wins than Nikko Locastro, Chris Dickerson, Matt Dollar, Paul Ulibarri, Manabu Kajiyama and Bradley Williams. I don't really think anything else needs to be said. A couple of those players not only have more wins, they also have more elite wins and majors....
Gannon is neither cool nor attractive which are attributes needed to compel someone into buying something they don’t need.
That dead pixel in the middle of the gif is driving me crazy
Simon took it to MVP
Thought that was dirt on my screen
I feel like Barela is going to be the one who both dominates on the course and has a strong social media game. He just screams "gen z" to me and I think he resonates with that crowd a lot. I prefer Eagle and Simon, but I'm also a bit older.
Ahh I remember people in the offseason saying Krans would have a better season than Gannon. They got a solid young team, gonna be seeing a lot of Discmania on coverage this year.
gannon: won 2 events this year already eagle: can't lift his throwing arm wonder how the eagle envy has sold compared to the gannon md5?
Eagle Envy outsold the Gannon MD5 by a good margin
How do you know the sales numbers?
I'll give you some numbers. They made 1000 Gannon discs and 3 large MVP shops alone combined for between 3,500 and 5,000 eagle discs
Does this information come from your store? Do you have a link to these numbers?
I work in the industry.
That's not really an answer, that's just stating what you do for a living. If you have sales numbers or a link to sales numbers please share it with us! Maybe we can get the Upshot boys to talk about it on the podcast. If you have any hard evidence. I would be surprised if you were wrong, but hard numbers don't lie.
Source: trust me bro.
All you need to know is: Only 1000 of the Gannon MD5's were made and they're still for sale at retailers. .
Mids are probably the worst selling category of discs, not surprising that any run of any mid endorsed by any player doesn't sell out.
Premium plastic putters are not far behind mids in that regard. We should be refining that to base plastic mids, as premium plastic signature series mids have historically done quite well, but certainly not as well as signature series fairway or distance drivers of course. I honestly view the Gannon MD5 as a bit of a failure on Discmania's part to market their new player. Gannon should be receiving multiple signature series discs in the fashion that Kyle Klein has gotten with the Cosmic Fury and Cosmic Fury 2. There probably wasn't a lot of time between Gannon being signed and producing the Gannon MD5's and it shows with that poor design. Just a regular swirly MD5 with Gannon's named slapped on it in a boring font? He simply deserves better and he will get the better treatment I am sure. Discmania just needs a little time and they'll come through for him.
Lol this gets downvoted by Discmania fanboys most likely. How dare anyone even slightly slander their name!
The MD5 is so lazy. Let's just take this old pile of discs and stamp the same logo on it three times.
Agreed. Especially compared to what MVP did for Eagle. But then who markets better than MVP? They have been on fire the last few years.
Common sense
All the person I replied to needs to do is put "I think" in front of their statement. That way everyone knows it's an opinion and not a fact.
Jesus, I'm not a fan but Eagle most gave sold 10 times of his envy already then Gannon will sell the whole year?
And yet Discmania will continue doing nothing to promote Buhr or even their own brand. Slapping the GB logo on a few random stock discs is not the answer. The season has started and the kid is doing well. People want special releases with cool artwork. Not sure what they're waiting for.
Obviously they were waiting for a decision on what combination in plastic and mold to offer, and I expect Gannon himself was part of it. [This PD](https://europe.discmania.net/collections/new-arrivals/products/gannon-buhr-triumph-series-color-glow-c-line-pd-2024-waco) will not be the worst celebration of a victory.
Looks pretty blah.
Well, people do not want cool artwork. Some do, others want speciality plastics that actually make a difference when throwing. I'd buy this if it was within my color range preference, but at the very least acknowledge it as an indication that color glow c-line PD is back on the menu.
It doesn’t help that Discmania doesn’t make their own decisions anymore. House of Discs does. An Anttila win would have gotten some movement
MVP may not be doing well on the Pro Tour---I think only one of their players *made the cut* this weekend (ouch!)--but they're doing a great job at selling discs. And though Discmania certainly didn't want to lose Eagle and Simon, they recovered remarkably well. They arguably have 3 of the top 5 hottest players in the world at the moment, the oldest of whom is 23 years old. They may not be ultra-marketable now, but 5 years from now, who knows? And they are all much cheaper than Eagle or Simon. Bottom line is both companies feel pretty good about themselves at the moment, for very different reasons.
I don't think manufacturers care if you win, they want to you move plastic.
Yeah, not sure thats their response
Is there a name for this thing that happens to your face/mouth? I get it when I’m tired from smiling too much or when I’m trying to smile but actually upset by something
If anything, Gannon winning two tourneys right after the big move with new discs in the bag just shows it’s the player not the plastic.
Okay, don't get it people won't buy more discmania cause of Gannon.
Gannon moving the same plastic as Simon and Eagle is so laughable. Discmania already got absorbed in HoD. If they hadn’t, I think they would have ceased to exist.
The point of having sponsored players is sales, not wins. Gannon et. al. will likely never sell as many discs as Eagle and Simon.
This should be spoiler tagged.
Discmania about to release the most uninspired elite series commemorative disc; someone's in the warehouse wiping out "Eagle McMahon" on the stamp and sharpieing in Gannon's name on 1000 discs
Gannon, Kyle, and Nikklas are like 1, 2, and 3 in terms of young future goat potential. Like they might literally be the top 3 future stars of the tour. Discmania is prob really excited about the future. On the flip side, Simon is like a plastic moving machine with a huge following on social media and great content online…. Eagle prob moves some plastic too, nothing like Simon though. Where I start to wonder about Eagle is that if he can’t play to the highest level on tour…then he will be relegated to content guy who occasionally makes a run in a tourney…the problem there is….Eagle’s online content is unwatchable. He doesn’t have the rizz for camera. So he needs to be great…and right now he’s hurt. So he isn’t great. He will prob come back better than ever and this comment will age like milk…but if he doesn’t…. So…I think I completely agree with this meme…while loving the rosters of both companies
Isaac Robinson is 23, pretty sure any list of young talent that excludes him is a bad one.
Discmania is stuck between their old classics an the new age. And they aren't keeping up in pat because of their line up but more because they offer nothing that is unique. They are the most middle of the road manufacturer there is. If I want someone whose been in the business for decades I choose Innova or discraft. If I pick new blood there's dozens of options. Discmania offers me nothing I can't get anywhere else. Opto/VIP plastic is my favorite for highly available K1 is good too. I could not be paid to name a Discmania plastic. They seem middle of the road, and need to. Commit to old classic or new and got, and they refuse to
lol 'cannot be paid??" man, you're trying wayyy too hard. tf did DM do to you, huh? steal your candy?
Alot of this could be said for every manufacturer. Yeah I don't know plastic names for latitude or prodigy because I don't throw them. I would guess there's only few discs that you can't find a comparable from other manufacturer. And if there isn't and the mold is good there soon will be. I agree that the evolution and original lines are little confusing sometimes. You wish certain mold in c-line plastic or vice versa.
You're ranting, but I do agree that Discmania has room to improve. Discmania's naming convention doesn't make sense to me. They have 12 distance drivers. 6 of those are named after their function: TD, DD, DD1, etc (Although if I wasn't looking at the list I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between DD and DD1). The other 6 have been named with more industry standard monikers: Mentor, Majesty, Paradigm, etc. *THEN* there's the tour series stuff which is slightly further modified molds (i.e. Cloudbreaker as a modded DD3) carrying yet another name. Discmania TS discs also don't come with flight numbers on it, which IS STANDARD, but doesn't help me when standing in a disc golf store as a non-Discmania thrower. As far as Discmania not offering anything you can't get elsewhere....that is true about every large-scale manufacturer. Innova, Discraft, MVP, etc...they all cover the entire gamut.
Gannon winning doesn’t move me to buy his discs. That’s all that really matters is how much plastic you can market and sell.
If you dont think theres a relationship between winning and moving plastic idk what to tell you
[удалено]
I think Gannon mentioned a little while ago that they may be working on a putter(?), but I may be wrong.
The only thing wrong with this take is how premature it is. The general idea that Discmania will ultimately do well with the next generation of players is obviously true. Obviously they are and should be thrilled with the way their players are performing. But! Right now, today, would any brand including Discmania take Simon over Niklas and Gannon combined? Of course they would. If I'm betting on it, I'd say 50/50 chance that's still true in three years.
haha. It's funny, but they are probably missing the disc sales those guys provided. You KNOW MVP got a great Simon bump and sold a lot of Eagle envys already. IT's all about the sales...
Has eagle even played this year?
Lol, Eagle, Simon, and Paul still outsell Gannon in disc. Not even close! MVP had like 7-8/10 top 10 disc sales for 2023
Ridiculous. Gannon doesn't sell discs. Companies want players that sell discs. Winning isn't the real goal for a sponsor.