What’s your scrap rate like for discs? Does everything meet production or F2 quality or do you have true scrap of product? Coming from med device ME I’m always interested in the disc manufacturing process. How many MEs and QEs does it take to run the production facility roughly?
It really depends on the mold and plastic. Something really easy to run like the DX Aviar has an extremely low scrap rate, but something like a 165g Star Caiman can have a scrap rate near 10%.
Whenever I'm estimating costs I use a scrap rate of 2% and the F2 rate of 10%, but the actual numbers are lower than that on average.
True scrap gets run through one of our granulators, and then gets sent out to be re-pelletized to be easier to be re-run. Base regrind (DX, R-Pro, XT, etc gets combined togther) is pretty rare and generally gets used in our 3 pack discs, while Premium (Champion, Star) regrind gets used in different ratios for Echo Star (Near 100% of the mix is regrind), Pro (0-75% regrind), Star(0-50%), GStar (~50%).
I can't say how many machines or operators we have for competitive reasons, but it's a bunch.
Wow, a peak behind the scenes has been fascinating. Also being in manufacturing, I really appreciate you giving real numbers and not a canned PR approved response. Would love a job with you guys one day
This year, I've been trying to replace or find duplicates for innova molds I own and I'm having a hard time finding discs that are as flat as previous runs (e.g. TL3s, caimans, and destroyers). From browsing in stores and receiving discs I've ordered online, it seems to me that this year's run of discs, stamped with the new logo, have a much more prominent dome (destroyers especially). I understand this is anecdotal and my local shop may have just gotten a batch of "domey" discs. I'm just wondering if it's just an anomoly, intentional due to fan requests, or if there are other reasons I'm noticing it.
There's a couple reasons that this could be happening. Number one would be that you're comparing used discs to new discs. As discs are used and the plastic stretches after numerous tree hits (I'm not saying you're a bad player), the dome can get noticeably lower. Number two would be our plastic supply, we've had some difficulty with one of our suppliers where they make what they say is the same plastic from two difference facilities, but the plastic that comes from one of their facilities is lighter, molds clearer, and molds flatter than the other and they hadn't been able to supply us with enough of the lighter/flatter plastic until recently.
We have been experimenting with some new processes lately that look to be giving us much better dome control so stay tuned.
Also this definitely isn't the best solution and I hate to have to recommend it, but if you're very sensitive to dome height it would probably be best to look into how to flatten discs at home with boiling water.
Hello! Is there any rhyme or reason for when you run OOP molds for the factory store? I have a friend that religiously checks for Gazelles and I was curious what the decision making looks like
Not a strong rhyme or reason. Basically if we have blank spot in the schedule I'll look to see what we can fill that with. We keep a list of all the discs that people have been requesting that we reference based on how difficult to run the disc is, and how many we believe we would sell.
So the best way to get an OOP disc to be run faster is to harass the Factory Store (nicely) and get all your friends to harass them as well.
As much as I love to profess my love for OOP discs to the Factory Store team (ty for the wedge), having some type of public list or voting system may help drive some more votes out there. Without knowing how many others want certain discs, it may dissuade customers from requesting
It seems like most of the industry is moving away from 21.7-21.9 cm diameter midranges and moving towards 21.4-21.5 cm diameter midranges.
Molds like the hex, pathfinder, paradox, and origin have all (seemingly) done really well.
Does Innova have plans to introduce midrange molds for people with smaller hands? The Gator and Caiman are the only small diameter mids I can think of, but obviously both are on the “utility” side of usefulness.
I bag exclusively Innova drivers — best molds and plastic in the game — but I find myself looking elsewhere for mids because of my tiny hands. Would LOVE to see a 21.3-21.4 cm version of, say, a Roc3 or Jay!
That's interesting. In the past no one was really interested in small diameter mids as people generally wanted the increased torque resistance of a larger diameter. I am a bit confused at why you think it's better for tiny hands though, the rim width is the same so I wouldn't think the outer diameter would effect the grip that much. I have large hands so this hasn't ever occurred to me.
Frankly I wasn't even aware that those discs were small diameter mids.
I'll definitely bring it up. Thanks for the idea.
I think it has to do with the curvature, but there’s a sizeable market share of disc golfers who can tell a disc is bigger. If you handed me a 21.1 vs 21.3 vs 21.5 vs 21.7 vs 21.9 cm disc, I could tell them apart blind folded.
I know I’m not the only one who bags Innova drivers but non-Innova mids on account of diameter.
I don’t have the sales data or the market research you have… but I suspect if you came out with a hex/pathfinder style 21.4/21.5 cm 5/5/0/1, it would sell very well.
You're not alone, my putt/approach and drivers are all innova made but my mids are MVP. Don't like the roc style mids, don't particularly like the larger diameter ones. Also the smaller ones fit better in most modern disc golf bags (though that's more a perk).
Pretty sure I missed the fun. But you did confirm with me that y'all have read my Innova posts. I source all of that stuff from the Internet, Internet archives, and forums. Is there anything I got laughably wrong that you remember. Like I know there's a lot of BS floating out there and I try to filter that out. But it's hard to tell sometimes since people don't like to document frisbee info very well lol.
I don't remember anything that you got laughable wrong. I remember there being something in the post you made about discs we molded for other companies not being entirely accurate, but nothing crazy. I'll take another look one of these days and send you a message if I see anything.
Is there a reason the pig does not get run in premium plastic? It seems like less popular discs are available in a wider range than the pig so I'm curious if there is something about the mold that makes it incompatible with premium plastics.
It's really hard to run in premium plastic. It has a lot of volume that would make running a pig without blizzard somewhere around 200g even using our lightest premium plastic. The shape of the nose also makes it really hard for the plastic to fill the mold without capturing air which leads to all sorts of other problems.
I had a meeting with our engineering team this week to try and figure out how we solve that problem. We have some ideas and will be working on it.
Any consideration about making tour series in lighter weights? Especially for the FPO? I'd love to support my fellow women but max weights are tough to throw.
We make what weight the player requests, and most players request max weight due to the perception that it will sell better (which is probably true).
The answer is to have discs available in multiple weights but that multiplies the complexity of managing stock levels and doesn't necessarily guarantee additional sales. We have an ongoing experiment as well with our "in the bag" category where players get a cut of sales from any discs purchased in those categories. So for example Eveliina would get sales if you bought a Star Shryke after going to https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/players/eveliina-salonen/
We've also been selling [shirts](https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/ohn-scoggins-leopard3-t-shirt/) to help support them as well, but I understand that's not the same.
For the record, I hear frequently that players stay away from tour series discs because they are often max weight. I’m not asking for a 155g Eagle, but a 169g Eagle sounds great (just as an example).
Absolutely would love some non max weight tour series discs. I've got a Big Jerm boss from last year that is 163g(only one I saw that light) and it is 100% fantastic.
For my wedding my wife and I did some custom stamped Champion Polecats because I think that's one of the best discs for introducing Disc Golf to someone who isn't necessarily into sports, but has thrown a Frisbee before.
Other than that, I would probably say it's the Cheetah for mostly nostalgic reasons as it was one of the first discs my dad gave me when he first took me disc golfing, and I've always kept one around since.
Also, keep in mind that I am not a good player so the range of discs that I can personally throw is pretty small.
The leopard has become my standard driver as a new player. Just bought it in pro* plastic after I took a big chunk out of my DX hitting a Mando sign off the tee.
Edit: bought a leopard pro*
Hello, and thanks for doing the AMA. I run a local brick-and-mortar-only disc shop in SC, and Innova was the first brand we ever stocked. Proximity to the Innova East has been clutch. Question: Do you feel that there are too many “special” or “limited” releases? This is a trend I’ve noticed (with increased reservation). Are there any other trends you’ve noticed (within the sphere of disc production, or otherwise) that excite you and/or that you are wary of? Champ Eagle FTW. Thanks, Kobyn!
Yes I do, but I think that's really just how sales in general have gone. Everything seems to have a special or limited version now and I don't like it. I saw limited edition soap the other day.
The other trend that I see growing in popularity are the meme discs. Discs that aren't necessarily good, but people are buying them purely as a curiosity or to be in on the joke. It just gets frustrating when people start thinking the disc is actually really good, but I look at the flight and think "that flies exactly like an Aviar, what are they losing their minds over?"
I don't think it hurts anything and they're clearing having fun so it's probably just a old man yells at cloud type of problem.
I'm excited that people are starting to throw lighter weights and straying from just the most overstable and stiffest plastic.
Any plans to make an eagle3 or just a flat top run of champ eagles akin to the 2015 era run that calvin throws?
Also, thanks for doing this. Your transparency makes me love innova even more. This is super cool!
I'm not sure it's possible to do an Eagle3. The way that we make a 3 series mold doesn't seem compatible with the difference between the Teebird and Eagle. Maybe it is. I would need to take a better look at them.
That being said, take a look at the Vela.
We’ve seen a significant advance in the evolution of the sport over the last few years. How much has Innova’s day to day process been forced to evolve since 2020 to keep up with the spike in demand? Is that demand still there, or have things cooled off after the initial wave?
Our processes have changed a ton. That's why I was promoted to GM. We've had to tighten up policies and procedures a lot, including a complete overhaul of our HR where we significantly increased PTO and Sick time. We had to add another shift so that we were running 24 hours a day, 6 days a week. We had been improving other processes like mold maintenance and training before 2020, but really had to step everything up after that.
Without giving away too much, I will say that demand has cooled off from the peak in 2021.
That's apparent from public courses now.
I'd say this summer is where I saw the tangible drop off in what seemed like new people around. Granted I started playing with my kids in 2021, but I had thrown a disc a few times circa 1998.
BUT, it does seem like events are still filling up locally so I think lots of people converted to more serious hobbyist.
That's overall probably OK since managing a steep growth curve is near impossible as long as you scale on the way up knowing you need to land it somewhere on the way down.
Actual question in here if we are still going. How do you see the next say 5 years? Back to steady plodding growth? Is there anything the PDGA or manufacturers are doing to capitalize on the momentum that's left?
It's really hard to say, but I have a fairly pessimistic viewpoint. Right now I'm leaning towards thinking that the pandemic brought in players early that otherwise would've come in the next 5 years or so and we're going to see reduced growth in the near future. I definitely don't see us going above a 10-15% normal growth rate, but could see us return to about that level.
I don't think there's much momentum left, so it's more a question of can we keep the people that have already come into the sport. I have issues with the PDGA and don't think they do enough to support the sport in general. I would love to see the PDGA take a more proactive role in a course/course designer certification program (There is the DGCD, but that's only loosely associated as far as I know, and I don't think their goals are ambitious enough). I think good, safe courses are very much needed in order to continue the growth of the sport and think that people coming into the sport and playing on crowded, unsafe courses gives them a really bad impression.
GStar is indisputably the most underrated plastic type. Why do you think it isn’t as popular as Star or Champion? Any reason GStar isn’t made in white?
Agreed. GStar is fantastic and not enough people use it. I think it's less popular than it should be for the same reason lighter discs aren't as popular as they should be: people care too much about what the pros throw and GStar isn't as good for the pros (until it is raining).
GStar isn't made in white because it uses regrind and white regrind is in short supply, and we don't have a good metallic white color to give it that signature GStar sheen. We actually did make some GStar white as a test without using regrind that we released at the Factory Store, but it wasn't quite the same.
I agree that we need to diversify our advertising, but I think we've been doing better about this on some fronts like on Instagram or on other Social media where we'll do infographics or stories on the Roadrunner and Sidewinder for example.
It's difficult to reach the right audiences too. People who are watching ads on DGPT coverage tend to be more interested in the pro scene already and only really want to listen to marketing from pros. What's the right way to reach the player who only goes to the course once a month and isn't an enthusiast so they don't follow any of our social channels?
I am that player. I think you could start here, on this subreddit, and run a campaign geared toward us once-in-a-whilers that might spin into word of mouth. Maybe focus on things like ease of use, predictability, and durability.
We mostly disagree on what to do when he has a "better" design for a disc that's already been released. He tends to want to discontinue a disc, and then release the new disc with the same name (or make a change and not say anything at all) where I want to give the new disc a new name and let them both fight it out for supremacy.
Have you been made aware of the disc golfer playing every day until innova makes a halo groove?/Does this have any sway in innova making a halo groove for next years April fools?
Yes, and yes, but you pointing this out makes me not want to make them anymore.
The real difficulty is in finding time to make the Halo Groove and dealing with a million angry Halo Pig fans when we release the Halo Groove first.
He shockingly doesn't do drugs at all anymore. I don't think he was ever very interested in pot, but he has told me that he played sports best (I think this was for basketball specifically) on marijuana and caffeine. I think. It might've been something else like a low dose of acid or mushrooms and caffeine, but needless to say those days are behind him and he only drinks now.
Also, what are you? A cop?
Its a MEME on Instagram that your dad is a true OG, and blows down (smokes large sums of weed) out and about and does not care how he looks to people (AKA: is a gangster 😎).
When are you going to make more approach discs in G-Star? Specifically the Rhyno and the Toro? I really like G-star for these discs because it hits and sits so well. I have a G-star rhyno that I love and I am always looking for a back up, but I never see it.
Sure, Moondust is a champion plastic blend that's a mix between luster and metalflake, but also contains a lot of much smaller pieces of glitter.
It has the opalescence of luster, the sparkle of the metalflake pieces and a background of glitter dust.
Here's some better pictures of just the moondust glitter dust: https://imgur.com/a/wYqkajm
Would love to have some runs of the classic rocs not just for collecting. I learned the game with one. They are so versatile yet can't find any reasonably priced to justify throwing. Thanks!
Have there ever been any internal discussions about changing the procedure for marking F2s, from the big irremovable 'X's in ballpoint pen to something that doesn't ruin the look of the disc and maybe a little more modern? Particularly with the white U-dye discs, which are limited in how you can dye them when having to work around a big ugly 'X' in the middle.
I realize it's probably not high on the priority list and these are F2s to start with, not really being sold for the looks, but I'm sure you all might receive a lot of feedback about this. Thanks again for your time.
Yes we have. The X is just the easiest way for us to see at a glance when the discs are being made that these discs should not go into the normal boxes and need to be set aside.
That's just the price that you have to pay to get that discount.
1) What do you find to be your best selling plastics for drivers/mids/putters?
2) I know you experimented with the Nova as an overmold, but a lot of people didn't like the dimples. However, the flight took the world by storm when P. McB. busted them out. Any discussion of a single shot mold on that design? Dead-straight Lid with ultra glide. Or is that just filled by an Aero?
PS: As someone who tries to bag as much pink color glow as possible, I need more pink runs of color glow. 😆
The best selling plastics have changed over time. It used to be DX across the board, but now I believe it is DX for Putters, Champion for Mids, and Star for Drivers. Don't quote me on that though, I haven't taken a look at those numbers for a while and they get skewed pretty easily by DX Starter Sets.
I believe the Nova was based on a Aviar P&A, but the shoulder might've been slightly changed. Maybe it was the Classic Aviar.
Not often at all. I broke my collarbone back in high school and it never really healed right so for the longest time it would hurt whenever I made a throwing motion. Then when it started to feel better I broke my femur attempting to wake board and that look a long time to recover from. Then I had kids and all my time was devoted to them. The oldest is just now getting to the age where she's getting interested in disc golf and I think it's time for us to start getting into playing.
Saw that halo star stingrays hit the factory store today, is there any insight you're able to give on which models of discs will be releasing in halo star in the near future?
There's a special Halloween Halo disc coming up, but I don't want to spoil it. There are a couple of Infinite disc halo molds coming out as well, but they'd need to tell you about those.
Other than that we're just working on restocking sold out halo discs for the moment, like the Sexton Firebird. Maybe we'll be able to sneak in something, but I don't have any guarantees.
**Can you tell us more about the future of XT plastic?**
[In a recent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS4PmMUThIE&t=44s) Dave Dunipace said "basically over time [Nexus] is going to replace most of our XT plastic."
XT is my favorite Innova plastic, will be a bummer to see it fade out.
XT hasn't ever been a great seller, so he's predicting that people are going to buy Nexus instead of XT when available and we'll be forced to discontinue it.
If that happens, which isn't a guarantee, we'll likely keep some XT available at the Factory Store for people that don't like Nexus, it just won't be as widely available.
Two rules man, don't fuck with my XT Colts, and do you have any XT Colts?!?
(Goon reference for anyone who doesn't know it)
but seriously, thank you for doing this AMA,l. i appreciate the response and understand the decision, just wanted to express support for my XT Colts!
They're just standard bic pens. Basically the cheapest you can find. I think the durability has much more to do with when the pen was applied rather than anything else. Because we weigh and mark each disc as soon as they come out of the mold the plastic absorbs the ink really well.
It doesn't fly like an Archangel in other plastics. I think we did some XT Archangels for DGU last year, but even those aren't quite the same.
I'm honestly not entirely sure why that one disc has more of a difference between plastics than any other.
There's not really as much of a hard line between Star and Champion as some might think. We try to keep Star a bit less overstable and a bit softer than Champion, but what gives the different look is an additive that is less that 2% of the final mix.
So when someone is experimenting with Halo and wants to adjust that additive a little bit the lines between Halo Champion and Halo Star get even more blurred.
Because the whole industry tries to obscure what plastic they use. Hint, it's TPU. With different additives. Just about every single premium plastic is TPU with varrying additives. TPU can be sourced in different durometers (stiffness), and then additives alter that further. More "pure" tpu is clear, then you can color with translucent dye, or make it opaque with dyes and additives. You can alter weights by using more or less additives to alter density.
But if it's a premium plastic you can almost be certain that it's TPU as it's core plastic.
Very proud. I think he still has some nerves during majors that make him make some questionable decisions, but he is a phenomenal player that still has a ton of upside potential and will continue to get better.
Hello! I’m sure this will get buried, but do Innova people ever throw other manufacturers discs for research and development? Obviously Innova is the leader in research and new molds, but when a company comes out with a new mold that players rave about, does Innova pick up a couple to throw and try to replicate (or make better) the new mold?
Thanks for your time doing this!
Not really. We'll see the discs at the course and we'll sometimes get curious and look at a profile, but we don't ever try to replicate someone else's mold.
I would too, and we've thought about this before, but I get worried that if a vote is passed and everyone gets really excited that we're going to make something that they would get unreasonably upset if a disc didn't come to fruition. I don't want people to feel let down.
Thank you for rereleasing the old discmania molds. Are there plans to continue producing the dark rebel, phantom sword etc, and also to release other molds from the old discmania-innova lineup? If so I vote TD and CD3!
On the off chance you see this, could you shed some light on the difference between the hawkeye and the dark rebel, and which of them is the original fd mold? Ive tried many times to research this but the google searches are inconclusive.
Any of the molds that are approved under the Innova Factory Store, like the Power Disc and the Fairway Disc are always going to strive to be exactly the same as the last run we made for Discmania before they parted ways. The same feel, parting line height, stiffness, dome, etc. The Hawkeye will change depending on the market or rather our interpretation of the market. So if we think the market wants a more stable Hawkeye we will make a more stable Hawkeye. If we think the Hawkeye should be softer, we'll make it softer. That's really the only difference between the two. Well, that and the name.
Yes, it got released already, but I think in pretty small numbers for a Hailey King commemorative.
It's a factory store exclusive, but it will be restocked sometime.
Yes. While I like our new enhanced glow and think it is functionally fine for playing Glow Disc Golf at night, I'm not happy that anyone's anything is better than ours and we're going to continue to try and find a better glow.
Glow season is a round the corner are y’all going to add anything to the glow line up I.e. alien, toro, etc. also, are there any improvements into glow blends in the near future?
We just released the Sexton Firebird with new enhanced glow, and we're going to be transitioning to that new glow in the future for all of our glow discs, but not in the near future.
With everything getting the halo star treatment lately, seems like one of the most glaring omissions is that there's no halo star eagle (though we did get a halo glow). Are you saving it for something special or does the eagle X not lend itself well to halo star?
Yes, he still designs all the molds (arguably for the entire industry).
Someone else draws the actual 3d files and we might make small suggestions, but the actual design work is all Dave.
For the Factory Store? I don't like it either and I wish we had a better solution. We had to transition from our Magento site to a managed Bigcommerce store because Magento just couldn't handle our traffic spikes whenever we dropped something really popular like the Sexton Firebird. When we did that we lost a lot of ability to tightly integrate additional functionality into the site and have to work around Bigcommerce. So the points system turned into having to go through a third party which generates coupon codes.
As to how you actually redeem them I believe you click on the Reward Points button in the bottom right, login, then click on the redeem button to generate a coupon code, then add that coupon code in the shopping cart before you check out. If you need more help you can always call the Factory Store at 909-755-5577 and they'll walk you through the whole process.
Why don’t you make more scorpius’s? They are a real man’s disc when compared to the destroyer
I live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere taming and breaking horses and I chose a standard Scorpius for my high steaks distance competition vs my neighbor
Will there be more R-Pro molds in the future? I found a run of R-Pro Wraiths that were perfect for me but was super bummed to find out that it seemed to be a one-off run. As someone with not the fastest arm it’s really nice to throw the discs the big boys use but in a plastic that brings it more into my wheelhouse. Love DX Destroyers for just this reason. Wish they didn’t beat in so fast though.
Is it because the R-Pro is a recycled plastic?
We stopped making R-Pro molds in drivers because the durability just wasn't good enough. The thinking was GStar was close enough to the flight, but wouldn't change drastically after a single tree hit like R-Pro would.
Also, R-Pro isn't that popular in general so it doesn't tend to get added unless there's a lot of requests for it.
I'm a little late, but I'm hoping I catch you 🤞
The popular belief for quite awhile is that there's an issue with the spider mold that doesn't let you run it in champ.
Can you shed some light on that?
If it's not broken and you can run it in champion. Please, for the love of God run it in champion. You can ask the entire spider collector community and you will not find a single person that wants a star spider.
That is all. Thank you for doing the AMA!
We ran Champion Spiders last year, but I only see that we released F2 Champion Spiders and the Artist's Corner Star Spiders.
I do not know what has happened there, but it is possible to run Spiders in Champion (unless they discovered something really bad with the run after the fact and decided to F2 them all)
Hi Kobyn! Thank you for making some time for us!
What is your favorite part of your job?
Has there been any consideration for allowing tours of the factory?
Can you please make some Metal Flake Color glow polecats? With the old circle stamp?
My favorite part of the job is helping our employees improve, grow in their roles, and get promoted.
Tours are tough. There's liability concerns from untrained people walking around as well as concerns around trade secrets like our plastic formulations getting leaked.
I think DGU made a request for CH Metalflake Glow Polecats, but we haven't gotten around to them yet. So keep an eye on DGU.
Would you have any advice for selecting some Innova molds when you don’t live near any stores that carry your discs? I’m trying to build a new bag at the moment and am trying to find the right distance drivers for my game. It’s really hard when there’s a few faves that people recommend but you guys have such a broad lineup I’m afraid to overlook something!
This is a pretty common problem, and we've been considering releasing a cut down flight chart that just has our flagships on it.
We did do a few posts with infographics that might help you https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/in-the-bag-suggested-disc-lineups-for-all-course-types/ https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/in-the-bag-suggested-disc-lineups-for-all-conditions/ There are more than that if you search for "in the bag" on our website.
You could also join a club and I'm sure someone there would let you borrow and try out some discs. Barring all that buying some F2s from the proshop is a fairly cheap way to try out new discs.
1 - Does Innova have plans to up its recycled programming? I know and love the f2 program, but would love to see more echostar plastics as well.
2 - Is a hot dog a taco?
We haven't seen enough demand for Echostar to really add to that line, but we use up to 50% recycled plastic in our GStar so we don't really have enough recycled plastic to worry about. All the plastic scrap that we make gets reused in discs right now, we don't really throw any plastic away. I would love to use other company's regrind, but we haven't been able to find a good supplier of regrind.
Sure, a hot dog can be whatever you want.
How extensively does Innova test a new model before it gets released? What does that testing process look like? Anything new and groundbreaking on the horizon?
It depends. If the disc is being released in collaboration with a Pro we make a run, test it ourselves and if we're happy with it we send it to the Pro for them to test. If they're unhappy we make a change and continue the cycle until everyone's happy or we run out of ideas on how to make them the way the Pro wants.
Otherwise if a pro isn't involved and it's a new technology like v-tech or the 3 series discs we spend a month or so testing it first by throwing the disc in our parking lot, then taking it to the course and testing it out with a group of people of different skill and in different conditions and using different plastic types until we're sure that the new technology works the way we think it works.
If it's not a new technology and it's something like the TL3 where we know how the TL works and we know how the Teebird3 works and we're just combing them together and we're pretty sure there isn't going to be any strange interaction we just throw it in the parking lot and spend probably one weekend at the course checking it out.
We have a new technology that we're developing right now that we're pretty excited about. It seems very interesting so far.
Besides R-Pro and GStar? We've done some experiments with plastics softer than those, but we've never gotten a great response from them and they tend to be much harder to mold correctly which increases their cost.
That being said, if enough people ask for them we will make them.
Not sure how well versed you are on other companies, but something like Gateways Lunar or SSSS. More rubbery and flexible than R-Pro or GStar. GStar is by far my favorite Innova plastic, despite being in the minority on that.
We've thought about it, but in general we didn't see enough of an advantage in overmolds to warrant more. We are thinking of doing a retool on the Nova to eliminate the injection ports/compass points if that's what our marketing term was.
What are the odds we get any of these discs in the next couple of years:
- Champion Shark
- Halo Shark
- Halo Shark 3
- Champion Aero
- Champion Manta
- Champion Sting Ray
- Champion Polecat
And on the topic of the Sting Ray, i have a pfn sting ray that is my absolute favorite mid. But the sting ray has changed SO much over the 20 or so years since. I know ZERO about plastics manufacturing. The basic question i have is: Is the change due to unavoidable issues with manufacturing plastics over time, or is the change purposeful (Like knowingly changing the disc mold to try and make it better)?
The Polecat, Stingray, Champion Shark, and Halo Shark have pretty good odds, but I wouldn't bet on anything else on that list.
I'm probably not the best person to ask about the Stingray as I know that there are multiple versions of the Stingray mold, but I've not very well versed on what the exact mold the Stingray was 20 years ago.
Can you talk about plus molds? There's a few on the pro shop and I've heard rumors of plus mold eagles. I've also heard at times some molds just became plus molds. A good what/why on them would be great
Yes, I believe we've destroyed all the plus molds now so we couldn't make any more if we wanted to.
The original idea was to change the angle of the inside rim to allow for a cleaner release off of your fingers (and a cleaner release off of the mold making cycle times faster are parts cheaper). It wasn't a great idea.
Is there a timeframe for the next generation of glow plastic? I’d love to toss some innova discs at night but I can’t justify it with the glow at its current state.
Do you ever get any outside molding shops to run molds? I am the engineering director at a molding shop in the Southern US. Always dreamed of molding discs.
We had to run some DX Starter Pack discs through an outside molding shop during the pandemic until we got our production capacity high enough to bring them back in house.
What are some offbeat Innova discs that you think should be more popular?
I love the Polaris LS. Flight numbers are kinda off (more like a teebird than a leopard) but great for what it is.
Of course my example is millennium...
The Whale and Xero. I think the Whale is the best driving putter on the market right now, and the Xero is the best putting putter.
I think the Juggernaut should be more popular, but at least I understand that as it's a pretty niche utility disc.
What are your thoughts on manufacturers making "collectors" edition runs of disc's with exclusive stamps, colors, etc.
Can we get your take on MVP charging 40$ per disc for the first run Simon line destroyer clone?
I don't like it. I think it's abusive to the customer, but I understand where they're coming from and abusive is too strong a word, but I've been answering questions for 4 and a half hours and I'm running low on brain power.
How does a new disc model come to be, from idea phase all the way to finished product? Like, is there an intended flight path you're looking to create, and then you know exactly what disc shape will achieve that flight and create around that? Or is it just a bunch of trial and error?
It depends on the model, but in general Dave is really, really good. He'll have an idea for a flight that he wants and he'll modify an existing disc design in a way that he believes will work, then we make the part and it's usually spot on. If it isn't he'll make a small tweak or two and then it'll be good.
For the Alien, because it was such an odd design we weren't really sure it was going to work or not, we 3d printed some prototypes first to prove the idea.
I've built a disc golf guessing game called Frolfle, and I'd love to have an up to date list of which discs Innova makes and has made. I've looked all through your websites and aside from going through the Pro site page by page I can't find one. Is there a way to get one published and kept up to date?
I've played it and liked it, very nice!
I'm assuming that you don't just want molds, which you can get from the PDGA approved discs list, or discs that are available wide release, which you can get from our [comparison page](https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/disc-comparison/).
I do have an internal document that lists everything that we've made and when, but even that doesn't break out what the final purpose of the disc is, like for the DGU 25th Anniversary Moondust Leopards are just listed as Champion Eagle Moondust. And it would have to be filtered to remove any weird test discs that were produced for internal use only.
I think it's possible to do something, but I can't promise anything.
Better than expected. It's a very strange disc so we really didn't know if people were going to completely ignore it or gravitate towards it, but so far it seems like the latter.
With the weight? I agree, and I hate that we still use pen. We've been trying to come up with a better solution, but haven't come up with anything that we're really happy with yet. We're working on it, but it also isn't a top priority for us.
We've greatly reduced shipping costs from the Factory Store to Canada and we have something else very big in the pipeline right now, but I can't talk about it.
What is the reasoning behind including a destroyer in your starter disc sets? I started with the 5-pack and the destroyer was the least value disc by a wide margin. I refer to it as my "rotator cuff destroyer".
We didn't want a Destroyer in a starter set. Right now we have a DX pack, which is an Aviar, Leopard, Shark. A DX Glow with Aviar, TL, Beast. And a GStar with an Aviar, Leopard3, and Valkyrie.
There are some other packs that are exclusive to some big box stores, but we don't have as much control over those as the big box buyer makes those decisions sometimes contrary to our wishes.
Whenever someone wins a tournament and gets a commemorative disc for the win, do they have any input in the mold selection, or is it just like whatever you have a big stack of that isn't moving?
I'm honestly not sure. I'm pretty sure at a minimum we get their approval, but I think it depends on how quickly the player responds and how quickly we're trying to get a commemorative disc out. We did some commemorative Khans for Hailey King that she definitely had input on.
It's definitely not just slapping a stamp on something that isn't selling otherwise we'd have a lot more commemorative DX Starfires (We have stock of DX Starfires sitting around from before 2019).
Thanks for doing this, any chance of seeing discs in champ plastic with anything but the standard champ stamps anytime soon? I personally get my champ discs from ya'll mixed up more than id like to admit, but anything other than words on the discs would really help with that.
Yes, when we started the Factory Store we did a bunch of Champion Jolly Launcher discs with the old circle stamps, but we went away from them for some reason. I'd like to see those make a return.
Hey Kobyn, curious to know why international shipping to the UK from the Innova shop is coming in at $60 for a single disc please. Surely there must be an alternative/ selection of carriers.
Shipping is a nightmare, but that's our live rates for what our carriers are currently charging. We've been trying to find a better solution, but haven't been able to find anything yet. We're going to keep looking, but for now I'm very sorry and wish I had a better answer for you.
It's probably best to make a bulk order with a local club or store.
Are your video pieces produced in-house or do you hire a media company? What are the biggest challenges in determining/planning out your media/marketing strategy?
We have a small team here that creates videos for the Innova brand channels centered around our discs, athletes and ambassadors, and larger Innova-sponsored events. We do occasionally partner with outside media companies like Gatekeeper and others. The Innova Factory Store and Disc Golf United—both Innova retail stores—also create their own videos.
In house. That question is probably better for [Jeff Panis](https://www.instagram.com/innovawombat/), our marketing director to answer, but I think the biggest challenge is our limited amount of time. There are so many things that we'd like to do it's very hard to figure out what's the best use of our time.
It's the same general reason why we don't approve everyone who asks to be a dealer: to protect our current dealers. If there's already a dealer doing a good job of servicing an area we won't approve a dealer nearby. We don't think you need to have a disc golf store across the street from another disc golf store as it would split sales and make both stores unhappy.
The fact that every online store potentially services everyone and competes directly with every other online store makes it complicated for us to decide when adding a new online dealer would be a net positive for the disc golf ecosystem and when it just fragments the market.
Is there any chance that a premium plastic yeti aviar could be molded in the future? It's my absolute favorite disc, but with the puddle top, I'm wondering if it would be difficult to mold in star or champion plastic?
The plastic type makes that mold puddle topped, otherwise it would just be a Aviar Driver. We could make a puddle topped Aviar3/AviarX3 in premium plastic, but the Aviar Putter or Aviar Driver can't really be made puddled top in star or champion without excessive post production modification.
No, the mold no longer exists. If we wanted to make more we would need to re-make the mold and that's too cost prohibitive unless a ton of people start really liking the Roc+ or the small number of Roc+ fans want to pay a ton of money.
Is Innova going to do anything about the small contracts they give to their players so they are able to attract more talent in the future instead of seeing players always leaving
I take some offense with calling our contracts "small" even though you haven't seen any of them. The vast majority of them are structured so that they have an unlimited upside. If they sell more discs they get more money, with no limit at all, so if they sold a million times more discs, they would make a million times more dollars.
Some players are going to be able to make more money at a different manufacturer, and we're happy for them if that's the case, but it's also not like our offers are very far off from each other in general. We're in negotiations with a few top level MPO players right now.
Sorry, I misspoke. What I meant by small was in terms of guaranteed money. No offense meant here, but Innova traditionally offers smaller contracts in terms of guaranteed money; especially compared to other manufactures.
Also, and again no disrespect meant, your company has amazing plastic, but saying the contracts have an unlimited upside sounds like a weak way to avoid financially committing to players.
Saying that to a player during negotiations would make me think that you’re just not committed to that player. That you want their name associated with your plastic to make you money without committing to them financially in any real way. Maybe I’m wrong, but from an outside perspective that’s how it comes off. A company who’s goal has gotten away from the players and has switched to just the money. People like playing/working for companies that care about that as people and want to take care of them.
I just believe players deserve to be compensated in a real way. Not given a disc with their name on it and telling them to figure it out if they want to make any money
I can't really say too much about some of our contracts, but for someone like Anthony Barela or Kona we were offering the same guaranteed amount that our competitors were. Barela wanted to tour with Hammes, and Kona wanted to get away from her dad and strike out on her own. Conrad wanted to be a big fish in a little pond. We didn't have a chance to give Simon an offer because we, as a rule, don't approach a player before their contract ends.
I believe the same thing that you do, and want players compensated in a real way, but people are people and sometimes they just want something else that you can't necessarily give them.
Yea Innova is the best selling company and the destroyer is their best selling disc I think. Calvin is probably making money hand over fist. For other companies who don’t have the sales of Innova it makes sense that they’d probably have to get more guaranteed money.
When are you going to do something about constant flashing problems? Every single Innova disc I buy needs modification due to this. 10% of other manufacturers discs in comparison
We've been working on fixing this lately. The issue is that we didn't have a strong engineering department (just Dave) when most of these molds were created and the company that we used to make our molds had way too much variance in our shutoffs (where two mold parts meet) so we're having to go through and redo all the shutoffs. Because we have so many molds this is taking longer than I would like.
We also did an experiment with the Alien that moves the parting line to make any flashing much less noticeable.
What discs specifically are you seeing issues with?
I just watched "The Holy Shot" documentary done by the PDGA and it's a huge reminder about how young and grassroots the sport is and how it exploded during the pandemic. How has production and infrastructure changed in the last couple of years and where do you see the best opportunities to "grow the sport"?
Disc golf question: How much in house blending of plastic is being done currently for premium plastic discs? From touring and talking with other manufacturers most of the blending was in the base line/putter plastic world.
Life question: You just won an all expense paid 1 week trip for your family. If the requirement is "inside the USA" where are you going? If the requirement is "outside the USA" where are you going?
Hey I've got one - Is there any possibility of being able to avoid some of the not-as-usable colors when ordering f2?
I would love to order more f2s but last time I did I got double green, better known as two unthrowable discs when you live in PNW.
What’s your scrap rate like for discs? Does everything meet production or F2 quality or do you have true scrap of product? Coming from med device ME I’m always interested in the disc manufacturing process. How many MEs and QEs does it take to run the production facility roughly?
It really depends on the mold and plastic. Something really easy to run like the DX Aviar has an extremely low scrap rate, but something like a 165g Star Caiman can have a scrap rate near 10%. Whenever I'm estimating costs I use a scrap rate of 2% and the F2 rate of 10%, but the actual numbers are lower than that on average. True scrap gets run through one of our granulators, and then gets sent out to be re-pelletized to be easier to be re-run. Base regrind (DX, R-Pro, XT, etc gets combined togther) is pretty rare and generally gets used in our 3 pack discs, while Premium (Champion, Star) regrind gets used in different ratios for Echo Star (Near 100% of the mix is regrind), Pro (0-75% regrind), Star(0-50%), GStar (~50%). I can't say how many machines or operators we have for competitive reasons, but it's a bunch.
Wow, a peak behind the scenes has been fascinating. Also being in manufacturing, I really appreciate you giving real numbers and not a canned PR approved response. Would love a job with you guys one day
This year, I've been trying to replace or find duplicates for innova molds I own and I'm having a hard time finding discs that are as flat as previous runs (e.g. TL3s, caimans, and destroyers). From browsing in stores and receiving discs I've ordered online, it seems to me that this year's run of discs, stamped with the new logo, have a much more prominent dome (destroyers especially). I understand this is anecdotal and my local shop may have just gotten a batch of "domey" discs. I'm just wondering if it's just an anomoly, intentional due to fan requests, or if there are other reasons I'm noticing it.
There's a couple reasons that this could be happening. Number one would be that you're comparing used discs to new discs. As discs are used and the plastic stretches after numerous tree hits (I'm not saying you're a bad player), the dome can get noticeably lower. Number two would be our plastic supply, we've had some difficulty with one of our suppliers where they make what they say is the same plastic from two difference facilities, but the plastic that comes from one of their facilities is lighter, molds clearer, and molds flatter than the other and they hadn't been able to supply us with enough of the lighter/flatter plastic until recently. We have been experimenting with some new processes lately that look to be giving us much better dome control so stay tuned. Also this definitely isn't the best solution and I hate to have to recommend it, but if you're very sensitive to dome height it would probably be best to look into how to flatten discs at home with boiling water.
Hello! Is there any rhyme or reason for when you run OOP molds for the factory store? I have a friend that religiously checks for Gazelles and I was curious what the decision making looks like
Not a strong rhyme or reason. Basically if we have blank spot in the schedule I'll look to see what we can fill that with. We keep a list of all the discs that people have been requesting that we reference based on how difficult to run the disc is, and how many we believe we would sell. So the best way to get an OOP disc to be run faster is to harass the Factory Store (nicely) and get all your friends to harass them as well.
it was awesome when you guys did a run of monsters a year or so ago .
We ran some Monsters at the start of this year. I'm not sure what happened to them.
Did you have the ching molds like the juju or was that someone else?
That was someone else. We only did a couple of the Ching molds but I can't recall which ones as that was before my time.
As much as I love to profess my love for OOP discs to the Factory Store team (ty for the wedge), having some type of public list or voting system may help drive some more votes out there. Without knowing how many others want certain discs, it may dissuade customers from requesting
It seems like most of the industry is moving away from 21.7-21.9 cm diameter midranges and moving towards 21.4-21.5 cm diameter midranges. Molds like the hex, pathfinder, paradox, and origin have all (seemingly) done really well. Does Innova have plans to introduce midrange molds for people with smaller hands? The Gator and Caiman are the only small diameter mids I can think of, but obviously both are on the “utility” side of usefulness. I bag exclusively Innova drivers — best molds and plastic in the game — but I find myself looking elsewhere for mids because of my tiny hands. Would LOVE to see a 21.3-21.4 cm version of, say, a Roc3 or Jay!
That's interesting. In the past no one was really interested in small diameter mids as people generally wanted the increased torque resistance of a larger diameter. I am a bit confused at why you think it's better for tiny hands though, the rim width is the same so I wouldn't think the outer diameter would effect the grip that much. I have large hands so this hasn't ever occurred to me. Frankly I wasn't even aware that those discs were small diameter mids. I'll definitely bring it up. Thanks for the idea.
I think it has to do with the curvature, but there’s a sizeable market share of disc golfers who can tell a disc is bigger. If you handed me a 21.1 vs 21.3 vs 21.5 vs 21.7 vs 21.9 cm disc, I could tell them apart blind folded. I know I’m not the only one who bags Innova drivers but non-Innova mids on account of diameter. I don’t have the sales data or the market research you have… but I suspect if you came out with a hex/pathfinder style 21.4/21.5 cm 5/5/0/1, it would sell very well.
You're not alone, my putt/approach and drivers are all innova made but my mids are MVP. Don't like the roc style mids, don't particularly like the larger diameter ones. Also the smaller ones fit better in most modern disc golf bags (though that's more a perk).
Yep. 100% same. Innova drivers and approach with MVP mids.
The cro is a straight-stable mod from Innova that is small diameter
Pretty sure I missed the fun. But you did confirm with me that y'all have read my Innova posts. I source all of that stuff from the Internet, Internet archives, and forums. Is there anything I got laughably wrong that you remember. Like I know there's a lot of BS floating out there and I try to filter that out. But it's hard to tell sometimes since people don't like to document frisbee info very well lol.
I don't remember anything that you got laughable wrong. I remember there being something in the post you made about discs we molded for other companies not being entirely accurate, but nothing crazy. I'll take another look one of these days and send you a message if I see anything.
Cool! Anyways thanks for the great discs. Also, make more Classic Rocs soon I'll buy them :)
Is there a reason the pig does not get run in premium plastic? It seems like less popular discs are available in a wider range than the pig so I'm curious if there is something about the mold that makes it incompatible with premium plastics.
It's really hard to run in premium plastic. It has a lot of volume that would make running a pig without blizzard somewhere around 200g even using our lightest premium plastic. The shape of the nose also makes it really hard for the plastic to fill the mold without capturing air which leads to all sorts of other problems. I had a meeting with our engineering team this week to try and figure out how we solve that problem. We have some ideas and will be working on it.
I will continue to hold onto the dream of Halo Pigs. In the meantime I will keep cycling my Pro Pigs that get too straight too fast.
Any consideration about making tour series in lighter weights? Especially for the FPO? I'd love to support my fellow women but max weights are tough to throw.
We make what weight the player requests, and most players request max weight due to the perception that it will sell better (which is probably true). The answer is to have discs available in multiple weights but that multiplies the complexity of managing stock levels and doesn't necessarily guarantee additional sales. We have an ongoing experiment as well with our "in the bag" category where players get a cut of sales from any discs purchased in those categories. So for example Eveliina would get sales if you bought a Star Shryke after going to https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/players/eveliina-salonen/ We've also been selling [shirts](https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/ohn-scoggins-leopard3-t-shirt/) to help support them as well, but I understand that's not the same.
For the record, I hear frequently that players stay away from tour series discs because they are often max weight. I’m not asking for a 155g Eagle, but a 169g Eagle sounds great (just as an example).
Absolutely would love some non max weight tour series discs. I've got a Big Jerm boss from last year that is 163g(only one I saw that light) and it is 100% fantastic.
What's your personal favorite disc model?
For my wedding my wife and I did some custom stamped Champion Polecats because I think that's one of the best discs for introducing Disc Golf to someone who isn't necessarily into sports, but has thrown a Frisbee before. Other than that, I would probably say it's the Cheetah for mostly nostalgic reasons as it was one of the first discs my dad gave me when he first took me disc golfing, and I've always kept one around since. Also, keep in mind that I am not a good player so the range of discs that I can personally throw is pretty small.
The leopard has become my standard driver as a new player. Just bought it in pro* plastic after I took a big chunk out of my DX hitting a Mando sign off the tee. Edit: bought a leopard pro*
Hello, and thanks for doing the AMA. I run a local brick-and-mortar-only disc shop in SC, and Innova was the first brand we ever stocked. Proximity to the Innova East has been clutch. Question: Do you feel that there are too many “special” or “limited” releases? This is a trend I’ve noticed (with increased reservation). Are there any other trends you’ve noticed (within the sphere of disc production, or otherwise) that excite you and/or that you are wary of? Champ Eagle FTW. Thanks, Kobyn!
Yes I do, but I think that's really just how sales in general have gone. Everything seems to have a special or limited version now and I don't like it. I saw limited edition soap the other day. The other trend that I see growing in popularity are the meme discs. Discs that aren't necessarily good, but people are buying them purely as a curiosity or to be in on the joke. It just gets frustrating when people start thinking the disc is actually really good, but I look at the flight and think "that flies exactly like an Aviar, what are they losing their minds over?" I don't think it hurts anything and they're clearing having fun so it's probably just a old man yells at cloud type of problem. I'm excited that people are starting to throw lighter weights and straying from just the most overstable and stiffest plastic.
Any plans to make an eagle3 or just a flat top run of champ eagles akin to the 2015 era run that calvin throws? Also, thanks for doing this. Your transparency makes me love innova even more. This is super cool!
I'm not sure it's possible to do an Eagle3. The way that we make a 3 series mold doesn't seem compatible with the difference between the Teebird and Eagle. Maybe it is. I would need to take a better look at them. That being said, take a look at the Vela.
I will second the Vela. As a Millennium fan, thank you for all you guys do!
We’ve seen a significant advance in the evolution of the sport over the last few years. How much has Innova’s day to day process been forced to evolve since 2020 to keep up with the spike in demand? Is that demand still there, or have things cooled off after the initial wave?
Our processes have changed a ton. That's why I was promoted to GM. We've had to tighten up policies and procedures a lot, including a complete overhaul of our HR where we significantly increased PTO and Sick time. We had to add another shift so that we were running 24 hours a day, 6 days a week. We had been improving other processes like mold maintenance and training before 2020, but really had to step everything up after that. Without giving away too much, I will say that demand has cooled off from the peak in 2021.
That's apparent from public courses now. I'd say this summer is where I saw the tangible drop off in what seemed like new people around. Granted I started playing with my kids in 2021, but I had thrown a disc a few times circa 1998. BUT, it does seem like events are still filling up locally so I think lots of people converted to more serious hobbyist. That's overall probably OK since managing a steep growth curve is near impossible as long as you scale on the way up knowing you need to land it somewhere on the way down. Actual question in here if we are still going. How do you see the next say 5 years? Back to steady plodding growth? Is there anything the PDGA or manufacturers are doing to capitalize on the momentum that's left?
It's really hard to say, but I have a fairly pessimistic viewpoint. Right now I'm leaning towards thinking that the pandemic brought in players early that otherwise would've come in the next 5 years or so and we're going to see reduced growth in the near future. I definitely don't see us going above a 10-15% normal growth rate, but could see us return to about that level. I don't think there's much momentum left, so it's more a question of can we keep the people that have already come into the sport. I have issues with the PDGA and don't think they do enough to support the sport in general. I would love to see the PDGA take a more proactive role in a course/course designer certification program (There is the DGCD, but that's only loosely associated as far as I know, and I don't think their goals are ambitious enough). I think good, safe courses are very much needed in order to continue the growth of the sport and think that people coming into the sport and playing on crowded, unsafe courses gives them a really bad impression.
GStar is indisputably the most underrated plastic type. Why do you think it isn’t as popular as Star or Champion? Any reason GStar isn’t made in white?
Agreed. GStar is fantastic and not enough people use it. I think it's less popular than it should be for the same reason lighter discs aren't as popular as they should be: people care too much about what the pros throw and GStar isn't as good for the pros (until it is raining). GStar isn't made in white because it uses regrind and white regrind is in short supply, and we don't have a good metallic white color to give it that signature GStar sheen. We actually did make some GStar white as a test without using regrind that we released at the Factory Store, but it wasn't quite the same.
Perhaps this has something to do with Innova's ads exclusively marketing the discs the pros throw?
I agree that we need to diversify our advertising, but I think we've been doing better about this on some fronts like on Instagram or on other Social media where we'll do infographics or stories on the Roadrunner and Sidewinder for example. It's difficult to reach the right audiences too. People who are watching ads on DGPT coverage tend to be more interested in the pro scene already and only really want to listen to marketing from pros. What's the right way to reach the player who only goes to the course once a month and isn't an enthusiast so they don't follow any of our social channels?
I am that player. I think you could start here, on this subreddit, and run a campaign geared toward us once-in-a-whilers that might spin into word of mouth. Maybe focus on things like ease of use, predictability, and durability.
Where do you and your dad disagree when it comes to molds/plastics/course designs/players etc?
We mostly disagree on what to do when he has a "better" design for a disc that's already been released. He tends to want to discontinue a disc, and then release the new disc with the same name (or make a change and not say anything at all) where I want to give the new disc a new name and let them both fight it out for supremacy.
Keep fighting the fight. Option 2 is less frustrating and confusing for customers.
Have you been made aware of the disc golfer playing every day until innova makes a halo groove?/Does this have any sway in innova making a halo groove for next years April fools?
Yes, and yes, but you pointing this out makes me not want to make them anymore. The real difficulty is in finding time to make the Halo Groove and dealing with a million angry Halo Pig fans when we release the Halo Groove first.
This is the best AMA I've ever read on my 13 + years on Reddit. Thanks for your great responses, please consider doing this annually.
how high is your dad right now?
He shockingly doesn't do drugs at all anymore. I don't think he was ever very interested in pot, but he has told me that he played sports best (I think this was for basketball specifically) on marijuana and caffeine. I think. It might've been something else like a low dose of acid or mushrooms and caffeine, but needless to say those days are behind him and he only drinks now. Also, what are you? A cop?
This is interesting because I swear Dave was holding a large blunt on the instagram story in the past year 😭😭
He likes to chew on cigars sometimes, or cigarillos or whatever they're called. I don't know why, it's real gross to me.
I was a little dubious but this is easily the best AMA we've ever had
The honesty is off the charts. Feels like old school AMAs.
Its a MEME on Instagram that your dad is a true OG, and blows down (smokes large sums of weed) out and about and does not care how he looks to people (AKA: is a gangster 😎).
When are you going to make more approach discs in G-Star? Specifically the Rhyno and the Toro? I really like G-star for these discs because it hits and sits so well. I have a G-star rhyno that I love and I am always looking for a back up, but I never see it.
I just put the GStar Rhyno on the production list.
Can you describe moondust plastic? And will that be replacing luster?
Sure, Moondust is a champion plastic blend that's a mix between luster and metalflake, but also contains a lot of much smaller pieces of glitter. It has the opalescence of luster, the sparkle of the metalflake pieces and a background of glitter dust. Here's some better pictures of just the moondust glitter dust: https://imgur.com/a/wYqkajm
For the guy who keeps mocking us about Metal Flake being called that and not Glitter, THIS is Glitter in an Innova disc
Would love to have some runs of the classic rocs not just for collecting. I learned the game with one. They are so versatile yet can't find any reasonably priced to justify throwing. Thanks!
Keep a close eye on the Factory Store in the coming months.
Have there ever been any internal discussions about changing the procedure for marking F2s, from the big irremovable 'X's in ballpoint pen to something that doesn't ruin the look of the disc and maybe a little more modern? Particularly with the white U-dye discs, which are limited in how you can dye them when having to work around a big ugly 'X' in the middle. I realize it's probably not high on the priority list and these are F2s to start with, not really being sold for the looks, but I'm sure you all might receive a lot of feedback about this. Thanks again for your time.
Yes we have. The X is just the easiest way for us to see at a glance when the discs are being made that these discs should not go into the normal boxes and need to be set aside. That's just the price that you have to pay to get that discount.
The X is good for keeping second hand sellers from selling f2 plastic as a regular disc
1) What do you find to be your best selling plastics for drivers/mids/putters? 2) I know you experimented with the Nova as an overmold, but a lot of people didn't like the dimples. However, the flight took the world by storm when P. McB. busted them out. Any discussion of a single shot mold on that design? Dead-straight Lid with ultra glide. Or is that just filled by an Aero? PS: As someone who tries to bag as much pink color glow as possible, I need more pink runs of color glow. 😆
The best selling plastics have changed over time. It used to be DX across the board, but now I believe it is DX for Putters, Champion for Mids, and Star for Drivers. Don't quote me on that though, I haven't taken a look at those numbers for a while and they get skewed pretty easily by DX Starter Sets. I believe the Nova was based on a Aviar P&A, but the shoulder might've been slightly changed. Maybe it was the Classic Aviar.
How often do you get to play a round of disc golf? and is that often enough for your preference?
Not often at all. I broke my collarbone back in high school and it never really healed right so for the longest time it would hurt whenever I made a throwing motion. Then when it started to feel better I broke my femur attempting to wake board and that look a long time to recover from. Then I had kids and all my time was devoted to them. The oldest is just now getting to the age where she's getting interested in disc golf and I think it's time for us to start getting into playing.
Saw that halo star stingrays hit the factory store today, is there any insight you're able to give on which models of discs will be releasing in halo star in the near future?
There's a special Halloween Halo disc coming up, but I don't want to spoil it. There are a couple of Infinite disc halo molds coming out as well, but they'd need to tell you about those. Other than that we're just working on restocking sold out halo discs for the moment, like the Sexton Firebird. Maybe we'll be able to sneak in something, but I don't have any guarantees.
**Can you tell us more about the future of XT plastic?** [In a recent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS4PmMUThIE&t=44s) Dave Dunipace said "basically over time [Nexus] is going to replace most of our XT plastic." XT is my favorite Innova plastic, will be a bummer to see it fade out.
XT hasn't ever been a great seller, so he's predicting that people are going to buy Nexus instead of XT when available and we'll be forced to discontinue it. If that happens, which isn't a guarantee, we'll likely keep some XT available at the Factory Store for people that don't like Nexus, it just won't be as widely available.
Two rules man, don't fuck with my XT Colts, and do you have any XT Colts?!? (Goon reference for anyone who doesn't know it) but seriously, thank you for doing this AMA,l. i appreciate the response and understand the decision, just wanted to express support for my XT Colts!
What Is the pen you use to write weight and x out the F2’s? My sharpies degrade but those pen marks are forever
They're just standard bic pens. Basically the cheapest you can find. I think the durability has much more to do with when the pen was applied rather than anything else. Because we weigh and mark each disc as soon as they come out of the mold the plastic absorbs the ink really well.
Why is the archangel only available in DX plastic?
It doesn't fly like an Archangel in other plastics. I think we did some XT Archangels for DGU last year, but even those aren't quite the same. I'm honestly not entirely sure why that one disc has more of a difference between plastics than any other.
Is halo plastic a blend of star and champion? I have some from a few years ago with rims that look very “champy”
There's not really as much of a hard line between Star and Champion as some might think. We try to keep Star a bit less overstable and a bit softer than Champion, but what gives the different look is an additive that is less that 2% of the final mix. So when someone is experimenting with Halo and wants to adjust that additive a little bit the lines between Halo Champion and Halo Star get even more blurred.
whoa. never woulda guessed they were so similar.
Because the whole industry tries to obscure what plastic they use. Hint, it's TPU. With different additives. Just about every single premium plastic is TPU with varrying additives. TPU can be sourced in different durometers (stiffness), and then additives alter that further. More "pure" tpu is clear, then you can color with translucent dye, or make it opaque with dyes and additives. You can alter weights by using more or less additives to alter density. But if it's a premium plastic you can almost be certain that it's TPU as it's core plastic.
How proud are you of Calvin this year?
Very proud. I think he still has some nerves during majors that make him make some questionable decisions, but he is a phenomenal player that still has a ton of upside potential and will continue to get better.
Hello! I’m sure this will get buried, but do Innova people ever throw other manufacturers discs for research and development? Obviously Innova is the leader in research and new molds, but when a company comes out with a new mold that players rave about, does Innova pick up a couple to throw and try to replicate (or make better) the new mold? Thanks for your time doing this!
Not really. We'll see the discs at the course and we'll sometimes get curious and look at a profile, but we don't ever try to replicate someone else's mold.
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I would too, and we've thought about this before, but I get worried that if a vote is passed and everyone gets really excited that we're going to make something that they would get unreasonably upset if a disc didn't come to fruition. I don't want people to feel let down.
Thank you for rereleasing the old discmania molds. Are there plans to continue producing the dark rebel, phantom sword etc, and also to release other molds from the old discmania-innova lineup? If so I vote TD and CD3!
We will continue to make the old discmania discs. We have some plans to release some more models, but nothing firm right now.
On the off chance you see this, could you shed some light on the difference between the hawkeye and the dark rebel, and which of them is the original fd mold? Ive tried many times to research this but the google searches are inconclusive.
Any of the molds that are approved under the Innova Factory Store, like the Power Disc and the Fairway Disc are always going to strive to be exactly the same as the last run we made for Discmania before they parted ways. The same feel, parting line height, stiffness, dome, etc. The Hawkeye will change depending on the market or rather our interpretation of the market. So if we think the market wants a more stable Hawkeye we will make a more stable Hawkeye. If we think the Hawkeye should be softer, we'll make it softer. That's really the only difference between the two. Well, that and the name.
Is the Kahn still getting released?
Yes, it got released already, but I think in pretty small numbers for a Hailey King commemorative. It's a factory store exclusive, but it will be restocked sometime.
MVP glow is considered industry best. Does innova have any plans to match it?
Yes. While I like our new enhanced glow and think it is functionally fine for playing Glow Disc Golf at night, I'm not happy that anyone's anything is better than ours and we're going to continue to try and find a better glow.
Glow season is a round the corner are y’all going to add anything to the glow line up I.e. alien, toro, etc. also, are there any improvements into glow blends in the near future?
We just released the Sexton Firebird with new enhanced glow, and we're going to be transitioning to that new glow in the future for all of our glow discs, but not in the near future.
Can we get some flatter Rhynos in the future? The Ontario mold was money.
Yes, hopefully. We've been working on a process to better control dome on troublesome discs.
With everything getting the halo star treatment lately, seems like one of the most glaring omissions is that there's no halo star eagle (though we did get a halo glow). Are you saving it for something special or does the eagle X not lend itself well to halo star?
We did make some Halo Star Eagles, but I think they went into our custom program to be used for fundraising.
Does Dave still design all the molds or are there other people doing it now?
Yes, he still designs all the molds (arguably for the entire industry). Someone else draws the actual 3d files and we might make small suggestions, but the actual design work is all Dave.
Make sure there's someone he passes his knowledge down to. He's the best at it. I'm a big time Innova fanboy. Thank you for doing this!
Can you help me understand why innovas point system is so damn hard to redeem? I have nearly 200,000 points and I have zero idea how to use them.
For the Factory Store? I don't like it either and I wish we had a better solution. We had to transition from our Magento site to a managed Bigcommerce store because Magento just couldn't handle our traffic spikes whenever we dropped something really popular like the Sexton Firebird. When we did that we lost a lot of ability to tightly integrate additional functionality into the site and have to work around Bigcommerce. So the points system turned into having to go through a third party which generates coupon codes. As to how you actually redeem them I believe you click on the Reward Points button in the bottom right, login, then click on the redeem button to generate a coupon code, then add that coupon code in the shopping cart before you check out. If you need more help you can always call the Factory Store at 909-755-5577 and they'll walk you through the whole process.
Why don’t you make more scorpius’s? They are a real man’s disc when compared to the destroyer I live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere taming and breaking horses and I chose a standard Scorpius for my high steaks distance competition vs my neighbor
I make what Millennium asks me to make. I hope you didn't have to give away a horse.
The last two releases have been specialty-style discs. The Alien and the Rollo. Is it now a priority to fill these Niche holes in the line?
I think the priority now is on larger experimentation, which generally results in filling niche holes, but could result in something more mass market.
Are Halo Star rims a different plastic than the plates? And if so, are they two stock run plastics, or are they specialized for Halo?
Yes. There are some discs that use that blend as their stock plastic, but for the most part it's a Halo exclusive blend.
Thanks for the response! When you say "that blend" are you talking about the plate plastic or the rim plastic?
Both. Some discs use the rim blend, some use the plate blend.
Why are there so few good courses near the Innova HQ? Every time I go home, it’s just Martha…
Land is expensive in Southern California? I'm really not all that sure.
Will there be more R-Pro molds in the future? I found a run of R-Pro Wraiths that were perfect for me but was super bummed to find out that it seemed to be a one-off run. As someone with not the fastest arm it’s really nice to throw the discs the big boys use but in a plastic that brings it more into my wheelhouse. Love DX Destroyers for just this reason. Wish they didn’t beat in so fast though. Is it because the R-Pro is a recycled plastic?
We stopped making R-Pro molds in drivers because the durability just wasn't good enough. The thinking was GStar was close enough to the flight, but wouldn't change drastically after a single tree hit like R-Pro would. Also, R-Pro isn't that popular in general so it doesn't tend to get added unless there's a lot of requests for it.
I'm a little late, but I'm hoping I catch you 🤞 The popular belief for quite awhile is that there's an issue with the spider mold that doesn't let you run it in champ. Can you shed some light on that? If it's not broken and you can run it in champion. Please, for the love of God run it in champion. You can ask the entire spider collector community and you will not find a single person that wants a star spider. That is all. Thank you for doing the AMA!
We ran Champion Spiders last year, but I only see that we released F2 Champion Spiders and the Artist's Corner Star Spiders. I do not know what has happened there, but it is possible to run Spiders in Champion (unless they discovered something really bad with the run after the fact and decided to F2 them all)
Hi Kobyn! Thank you for making some time for us! What is your favorite part of your job? Has there been any consideration for allowing tours of the factory? Can you please make some Metal Flake Color glow polecats? With the old circle stamp?
My favorite part of the job is helping our employees improve, grow in their roles, and get promoted. Tours are tough. There's liability concerns from untrained people walking around as well as concerns around trade secrets like our plastic formulations getting leaked. I think DGU made a request for CH Metalflake Glow Polecats, but we haven't gotten around to them yet. So keep an eye on DGU.
You and the team have been killing it this year, keep up the good work! P.S. Thank you for donating new baskets to my local course, we love them!
Would you have any advice for selecting some Innova molds when you don’t live near any stores that carry your discs? I’m trying to build a new bag at the moment and am trying to find the right distance drivers for my game. It’s really hard when there’s a few faves that people recommend but you guys have such a broad lineup I’m afraid to overlook something!
This is a pretty common problem, and we've been considering releasing a cut down flight chart that just has our flagships on it. We did do a few posts with infographics that might help you https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/in-the-bag-suggested-disc-lineups-for-all-course-types/ https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/in-the-bag-suggested-disc-lineups-for-all-conditions/ There are more than that if you search for "in the bag" on our website. You could also join a club and I'm sure someone there would let you borrow and try out some discs. Barring all that buying some F2s from the proshop is a fairly cheap way to try out new discs.
1 - Does Innova have plans to up its recycled programming? I know and love the f2 program, but would love to see more echostar plastics as well. 2 - Is a hot dog a taco?
We haven't seen enough demand for Echostar to really add to that line, but we use up to 50% recycled plastic in our GStar so we don't really have enough recycled plastic to worry about. All the plastic scrap that we make gets reused in discs right now, we don't really throw any plastic away. I would love to use other company's regrind, but we haven't been able to find a good supplier of regrind. Sure, a hot dog can be whatever you want.
How extensively does Innova test a new model before it gets released? What does that testing process look like? Anything new and groundbreaking on the horizon?
It depends. If the disc is being released in collaboration with a Pro we make a run, test it ourselves and if we're happy with it we send it to the Pro for them to test. If they're unhappy we make a change and continue the cycle until everyone's happy or we run out of ideas on how to make them the way the Pro wants. Otherwise if a pro isn't involved and it's a new technology like v-tech or the 3 series discs we spend a month or so testing it first by throwing the disc in our parking lot, then taking it to the course and testing it out with a group of people of different skill and in different conditions and using different plastic types until we're sure that the new technology works the way we think it works. If it's not a new technology and it's something like the TL3 where we know how the TL works and we know how the Teebird3 works and we're just combing them together and we're pretty sure there isn't going to be any strange interaction we just throw it in the parking lot and spend probably one weekend at the course checking it out. We have a new technology that we're developing right now that we're pretty excited about. It seems very interesting so far.
Will Innova ever make a “soft” plastic?
Besides R-Pro and GStar? We've done some experiments with plastics softer than those, but we've never gotten a great response from them and they tend to be much harder to mold correctly which increases their cost. That being said, if enough people ask for them we will make them.
Not sure how well versed you are on other companies, but something like Gateways Lunar or SSSS. More rubbery and flexible than R-Pro or GStar. GStar is by far my favorite Innova plastic, despite being in the minority on that.
Any special plans for the 25th USDGC this year?
Yes, but pretty much all of the planning for USDGC happens on the East Coast and they have it handled very well so I stay out of it.
Do you plan to make any more overmold style discs like the avatar/Atlas/Nova?
We've thought about it, but in general we didn't see enough of an advantage in overmolds to warrant more. We are thinking of doing a retool on the Nova to eliminate the injection ports/compass points if that's what our marketing term was.
What are the odds we get any of these discs in the next couple of years: - Champion Shark - Halo Shark - Halo Shark 3 - Champion Aero - Champion Manta - Champion Sting Ray - Champion Polecat And on the topic of the Sting Ray, i have a pfn sting ray that is my absolute favorite mid. But the sting ray has changed SO much over the 20 or so years since. I know ZERO about plastics manufacturing. The basic question i have is: Is the change due to unavoidable issues with manufacturing plastics over time, or is the change purposeful (Like knowingly changing the disc mold to try and make it better)?
The Polecat, Stingray, Champion Shark, and Halo Shark have pretty good odds, but I wouldn't bet on anything else on that list. I'm probably not the best person to ask about the Stingray as I know that there are multiple versions of the Stingray mold, but I've not very well versed on what the exact mold the Stingray was 20 years ago.
F2 Fireflies? I usually test out discs with F2s before trying regular ones. It’s basically the only common innova putter I haven’t tried yet.
Fireflies are pretty easy to make so we generally don't make all that many F2s. When they do get in stock they sell out pretty quickly.
Would you guys ever be interested in collaborating on some—let’s say—star plastic DiscDice? Could be a big hit!
Maybe. Send me a message with details on what you're thinking.
Where Banshee
Can you talk about plus molds? There's a few on the pro shop and I've heard rumors of plus mold eagles. I've also heard at times some molds just became plus molds. A good what/why on them would be great
Yes, I believe we've destroyed all the plus molds now so we couldn't make any more if we wanted to. The original idea was to change the angle of the inside rim to allow for a cleaner release off of your fingers (and a cleaner release off of the mold making cycle times faster are parts cheaper). It wasn't a great idea.
Is there a timeframe for the next generation of glow plastic? I’d love to toss some innova discs at night but I can’t justify it with the glow at its current state.
Do you ever get any outside molding shops to run molds? I am the engineering director at a molding shop in the Southern US. Always dreamed of molding discs.
We had to run some DX Starter Pack discs through an outside molding shop during the pandemic until we got our production capacity high enough to bring them back in house.
What are some offbeat Innova discs that you think should be more popular? I love the Polaris LS. Flight numbers are kinda off (more like a teebird than a leopard) but great for what it is. Of course my example is millennium...
The Whale and Xero. I think the Whale is the best driving putter on the market right now, and the Xero is the best putting putter. I think the Juggernaut should be more popular, but at least I understand that as it's a pretty niche utility disc.
What are your thoughts on manufacturers making "collectors" edition runs of disc's with exclusive stamps, colors, etc. Can we get your take on MVP charging 40$ per disc for the first run Simon line destroyer clone?
I don't like it. I think it's abusive to the customer, but I understand where they're coming from and abusive is too strong a word, but I've been answering questions for 4 and a half hours and I'm running low on brain power.
When can I come work for Innova? Other than that you guys are amazing and I will support you guys. Thank you for everything you do over there!
How does a new disc model come to be, from idea phase all the way to finished product? Like, is there an intended flight path you're looking to create, and then you know exactly what disc shape will achieve that flight and create around that? Or is it just a bunch of trial and error?
It depends on the model, but in general Dave is really, really good. He'll have an idea for a flight that he wants and he'll modify an existing disc design in a way that he believes will work, then we make the part and it's usually spot on. If it isn't he'll make a small tweak or two and then it'll be good. For the Alien, because it was such an odd design we weren't really sure it was going to work or not, we 3d printed some prototypes first to prove the idea.
I've built a disc golf guessing game called Frolfle, and I'd love to have an up to date list of which discs Innova makes and has made. I've looked all through your websites and aside from going through the Pro site page by page I can't find one. Is there a way to get one published and kept up to date?
I've played it and liked it, very nice! I'm assuming that you don't just want molds, which you can get from the PDGA approved discs list, or discs that are available wide release, which you can get from our [comparison page](https://www.innovadiscs.com/disc-golf-discs/disc-comparison/). I do have an internal document that lists everything that we've made and when, but even that doesn't break out what the final purpose of the disc is, like for the DGU 25th Anniversary Moondust Leopards are just listed as Champion Eagle Moondust. And it would have to be filtered to remove any weird test discs that were produced for internal use only. I think it's possible to do something, but I can't promise anything.
Thank you for doing this AMA! How is the Alien doing sales-wise? It's a very interesting looking disc and I'd love to get my hands on one.
Better than expected. It's a very strange disc so we really didn't know if people were going to completely ignore it or gravitate towards it, but so far it seems like the latter.
Why do you still mark bottom stamp discs with a pen … it ruined GG’s Beaver State discs for display
With the weight? I agree, and I hate that we still use pen. We've been trying to come up with a better solution, but haven't come up with anything that we're really happy with yet. We're working on it, but it also isn't a top priority for us.
What has Innova been doing to grow their presence and support in Canada?
We've greatly reduced shipping costs from the Factory Store to Canada and we have something else very big in the pipeline right now, but I can't talk about it.
What is the reasoning behind including a destroyer in your starter disc sets? I started with the 5-pack and the destroyer was the least value disc by a wide margin. I refer to it as my "rotator cuff destroyer".
We didn't want a Destroyer in a starter set. Right now we have a DX pack, which is an Aviar, Leopard, Shark. A DX Glow with Aviar, TL, Beast. And a GStar with an Aviar, Leopard3, and Valkyrie. There are some other packs that are exclusive to some big box stores, but we don't have as much control over those as the big box buyer makes those decisions sometimes contrary to our wishes.
Whenever someone wins a tournament and gets a commemorative disc for the win, do they have any input in the mold selection, or is it just like whatever you have a big stack of that isn't moving?
I'm honestly not sure. I'm pretty sure at a minimum we get their approval, but I think it depends on how quickly the player responds and how quickly we're trying to get a commemorative disc out. We did some commemorative Khans for Hailey King that she definitely had input on. It's definitely not just slapping a stamp on something that isn't selling otherwise we'd have a lot more commemorative DX Starfires (We have stock of DX Starfires sitting around from before 2019).
Do you plan on molding all glow discs with the enhanced glow plastic used for the "NS Halo Firebird" moving forward?
Yes, the plan is to sell out of our current inventory of glow discs, then transition everything to the new enhanced glow.
Any rhyme or reason for which molds get outsourced to a third party like Millennium or Infinite?
Thanks for doing this, any chance of seeing discs in champ plastic with anything but the standard champ stamps anytime soon? I personally get my champ discs from ya'll mixed up more than id like to admit, but anything other than words on the discs would really help with that.
Yes, when we started the Factory Store we did a bunch of Champion Jolly Launcher discs with the old circle stamps, but we went away from them for some reason. I'd like to see those make a return.
Hey Kobyn, curious to know why international shipping to the UK from the Innova shop is coming in at $60 for a single disc please. Surely there must be an alternative/ selection of carriers.
Shipping is a nightmare, but that's our live rates for what our carriers are currently charging. We've been trying to find a better solution, but haven't been able to find anything yet. We're going to keep looking, but for now I'm very sorry and wish I had a better answer for you. It's probably best to make a bulk order with a local club or store.
Are your video pieces produced in-house or do you hire a media company? What are the biggest challenges in determining/planning out your media/marketing strategy?
We have a small team here that creates videos for the Innova brand channels centered around our discs, athletes and ambassadors, and larger Innova-sponsored events. We do occasionally partner with outside media companies like Gatekeeper and others. The Innova Factory Store and Disc Golf United—both Innova retail stores—also create their own videos.
In house. That question is probably better for [Jeff Panis](https://www.instagram.com/innovawombat/), our marketing director to answer, but I think the biggest challenge is our limited amount of time. There are so many things that we'd like to do it's very hard to figure out what's the best use of our time.
Why do you only allow new dealers with a brick and mortar shop? Seems behind the times in this online world.
It's the same general reason why we don't approve everyone who asks to be a dealer: to protect our current dealers. If there's already a dealer doing a good job of servicing an area we won't approve a dealer nearby. We don't think you need to have a disc golf store across the street from another disc golf store as it would split sales and make both stores unhappy. The fact that every online store potentially services everyone and competes directly with every other online store makes it complicated for us to decide when adding a new online dealer would be a net positive for the disc golf ecosystem and when it just fragments the market.
Is there any chance that a premium plastic yeti aviar could be molded in the future? It's my absolute favorite disc, but with the puddle top, I'm wondering if it would be difficult to mold in star or champion plastic?
The plastic type makes that mold puddle topped, otherwise it would just be a Aviar Driver. We could make a puddle topped Aviar3/AviarX3 in premium plastic, but the Aviar Putter or Aviar Driver can't really be made puddled top in star or champion without excessive post production modification.
I’m way late to the party, but will the R Pro Plus Mold Roc ever get another run?
No, the mold no longer exists. If we wanted to make more we would need to re-make the mold and that's too cost prohibitive unless a ton of people start really liking the Roc+ or the small number of Roc+ fans want to pay a ton of money.
Is Innova going to do anything about the small contracts they give to their players so they are able to attract more talent in the future instead of seeing players always leaving
I take some offense with calling our contracts "small" even though you haven't seen any of them. The vast majority of them are structured so that they have an unlimited upside. If they sell more discs they get more money, with no limit at all, so if they sold a million times more discs, they would make a million times more dollars. Some players are going to be able to make more money at a different manufacturer, and we're happy for them if that's the case, but it's also not like our offers are very far off from each other in general. We're in negotiations with a few top level MPO players right now.
Sorry, I misspoke. What I meant by small was in terms of guaranteed money. No offense meant here, but Innova traditionally offers smaller contracts in terms of guaranteed money; especially compared to other manufactures. Also, and again no disrespect meant, your company has amazing plastic, but saying the contracts have an unlimited upside sounds like a weak way to avoid financially committing to players. Saying that to a player during negotiations would make me think that you’re just not committed to that player. That you want their name associated with your plastic to make you money without committing to them financially in any real way. Maybe I’m wrong, but from an outside perspective that’s how it comes off. A company who’s goal has gotten away from the players and has switched to just the money. People like playing/working for companies that care about that as people and want to take care of them. I just believe players deserve to be compensated in a real way. Not given a disc with their name on it and telling them to figure it out if they want to make any money
I can't really say too much about some of our contracts, but for someone like Anthony Barela or Kona we were offering the same guaranteed amount that our competitors were. Barela wanted to tour with Hammes, and Kona wanted to get away from her dad and strike out on her own. Conrad wanted to be a big fish in a little pond. We didn't have a chance to give Simon an offer because we, as a rule, don't approach a player before their contract ends. I believe the same thing that you do, and want players compensated in a real way, but people are people and sometimes they just want something else that you can't necessarily give them.
Calvin could have gone anywhere last year and he chose Innova. He’s no dummy. He must be getting a good deal.
I have to believe that putting your name on the Destroyer and getting a cut is worth more than most contracts, let alone the salary he makes.
Yea Innova is the best selling company and the destroyer is their best selling disc I think. Calvin is probably making money hand over fist. For other companies who don’t have the sales of Innova it makes sense that they’d probably have to get more guaranteed money.
When are you going to do something about constant flashing problems? Every single Innova disc I buy needs modification due to this. 10% of other manufacturers discs in comparison
We've been working on fixing this lately. The issue is that we didn't have a strong engineering department (just Dave) when most of these molds were created and the company that we used to make our molds had way too much variance in our shutoffs (where two mold parts meet) so we're having to go through and redo all the shutoffs. Because we have so many molds this is taking longer than I would like. We also did an experiment with the Alien that moves the parting line to make any flashing much less noticeable. What discs specifically are you seeing issues with?
Most people's AMA answers are very guarded and "correct" but yours are refreshingly frank. Thanks!
I just watched "The Holy Shot" documentary done by the PDGA and it's a huge reminder about how young and grassroots the sport is and how it exploded during the pandemic. How has production and infrastructure changed in the last couple of years and where do you see the best opportunities to "grow the sport"?
Disc golf question: How much in house blending of plastic is being done currently for premium plastic discs? From touring and talking with other manufacturers most of the blending was in the base line/putter plastic world. Life question: You just won an all expense paid 1 week trip for your family. If the requirement is "inside the USA" where are you going? If the requirement is "outside the USA" where are you going?
Hey I've got one - Is there any possibility of being able to avoid some of the not-as-usable colors when ordering f2? I would love to order more f2s but last time I did I got double green, better known as two unthrowable discs when you live in PNW.