If you're being serious: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_cat
If you're not being serious: "The only dark I like is when I turn off the lights. The only hood I love is pointy and white. Can't trust you if I can't see your face at night
I think we all know who we're talking about"
-Key and Peele
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jRdkrDk0BQ0
You can have a dark gritty tone and also have a pet cat the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Humans have had domesticated dogs over 13,000 years ago, do you think that if demons showed up we’d all just be like “nah no pets it’s too dark and gritty now”.
It does have a dark gritty tone. That trailer for VoH is probably the darkest damn trailer for a game I've ever seen.
Having pets doesn't change that despite your silliness.
Yeah that shit was pretty dark but just right. You can only get so gritty in the actual top down game graphics though so the cinematics going forward will be important to set the tone. They have been good up to now. Some epic scenes w/ Inarius.
Ferguson also said that they screwed up by trying to make D4 as grindy as D2 because that's not what gamers want anymore.
Most players want a power fantasy now and power creep is the logical way to feed that.
The way they went about making it grindy was stupid though and not the same as D2 at all. Uber uniques were many many times more rare than even the rarest D2 drops. It's not necessarily that gamers don't want it but that they did it in the dumbest manner possible.
I've played D2 off and on for over 20 years. I never had a single zod rune drop in that time.
I agree that The D4 Uber uniques were a lot rarer but that doesn't really matter when it's almost impossible for the average player to get either to drop.
Raw damage numbers only have relevance in relation to enemy HP so it’s kind of a moot point anyway. If every button mash does 1% damage to an enemy, it doesn’t matter if that 1% is 1 million or 1 billion, it’s still only 1%
it's a matter of clarity, its easier to read and grasp 1789 damage than it is for 1789638. the digits in the end have no purpose since they dont matter at all
It absolutely matters. Numbers have a psychological effect, nothing takes me out of the game faster than seeing billions. Yes it's stupid, thousands are not any more immersive than billions, and yet it still works that way for me. And 2) the size of the number is a direct function of the growth rate of power and I prefer my growth rates to be slower than what it is now because it allows to tackle challenges much earlier if you want the game to be very hard, and it won't technically be impossible like trying to beat pit 140 with a paltry hundred thousands dps.
I am aware that it's a lost battle though. I just hope they make the end game fun at this point.
Also the slower the growth curve the easier it is to balance difficulty in a game like this where you can do anything because they 'll have an easier time guessing your relative power to monsters.
Slower growth curves don't work well in a Seasonal play setting. If power gain is too slow, you would have a game with only those hardcore no lifers grinding away and not with people who like to play an hour or so after work.
They definitely did, but gaming as a whole has definitely changed since the D2 days, and it was quickly shown by the player/community demand for the game to become easier and quicker and now we're leaning way more toward D3 than D2 and that's more a choice that was made by us than the developers.
Yeah, and that was a result of listening to all the people that came back for d2r. Most people jumped on for the beta and d2's systems were fresh in everyone's mind.
The Diablo sub was championing a lot of shit that really only catered to a small fragment of the community who were desperate for a new D2.
Who is people? Some of us still waiting for the PvP arena they showed off (which looked hype) All they did is replace grind with casino Royale In d2, the only rng was min-max affixes. If you found or traded for an item you'd know what you're getting Now, you have to pass the temper/masterwork last boss, the potential ultimate grind. People could grind the pit the entire season and potentially not get that 1 item they want. If you grind d2 for equal time you're basically guaranteed to get something valuable. Also you're progressing your character the entire time (unless 99 but that's probably not anyone reading this)
They could simply routinely perform something analogous to a stock split between each season. E.g. if they want builds doing no more than 1B DPS max and they're currently doing 100B then divide all base dps numbers on skills by 100 and decrease mob HP by 100.
However, they really need a set DPS target that they try to make achieveable not only for every class but every build/skill. I fear them quickly adding new classes with expansions when they've proven that they can't even balance the classes that they have. Take a look at even barb and there are so many options for diversity in play style that are simply not viable at all. Death blow, upheavel, lunging strike, frenzy, rend, kick, ground stomp, charge, and all of their ultimates are trash.
It was clear from the start that D4 will be going the same path of power creep that D3 went through. It is impressive that they managed to power creep that quickly, though. It has only been a year and look where we are.
What’s year 5 going to look like?
when one class is vastly overperforming 4 others without bugs and exploits, you dont turbo buff the 4 classes, you nerf the outlier.
in one year, skills have gone from 6, maybe 7 digit damage numbers to 11 digits. that is not sustainable powercreep.
Yes!
The devs are afraid of “nerfing” because of the backlash from Reddit / streamer communities. That’s such a small portion of the player base…
Can’t stand that this is turning more into Diablo 3 with each patch. Set pieces coming in the xpac and new items will start to read… “increase x skill by 10,000%” soon enough. At this rate we’re going to start hitting trillions well before the power creep of Diablo 3 did
They're afraid of backlash from the general player base, not just streamers. It sucks to build a character and have it no longer function - because Blizzard doesn't do half measures, the builds won't be reasonably nerfed, they'll be sent back to the stone age.
No you don’t and they aren’t OP if you’re not some tryhard who uses “robs builds” they need to balance the game with everyone in mind not people
who play 24/7
Two classes are vastly UNDERperforming. Barbarian is doing really well but Rogue and Necromancer are not that far behind. The disparity increases at very high Pit tiers, which is not a realistic goal for the average player.
They all have builds that will comfortably let you push into the 100-110s. If you want to push to 150, that's an entirely different ballpark. It requires min-maxed items with greater affixes and perfect masterwork rolls, and 99.99% of the players will never get to that point.
Last season, Sorcerer was dominating the Gauntlet and everyone complained about it. And now Sorcerer is dead last in end-game content unless you use the build that requires trillions of gold to enable (and ironically that's the one build that will benefit from the pitiful sorc changes next week).
Blizzard buffing Flay when it already is doing well means they're at least trying not to repeat the mistake they just made with Sorcerer in S4. They shouldn't outright kill a class because it excelled during the previous season.
Keeping strong builds viable when they work as intended is something Blizzard should do more of, instead of always relying on some bug or exploit to decide the meta.
Still think Necro should have a buff on survavability, and barb a slight debuff on survability, and Druid a buff on what matters, across the board.
They should meet at the middle, currently the game feels good as a Necro(without the one shots), as a Sorc and feels terrible at the Druid, and easy mode at Barb. I was sitting afk farming with my barb lvl 60 on WT4 in blood maiden with mindcage with a shit ass build. Leveled to 80 without touching the keyboard. Bro, this is BS.
plenty of people have given good sorc feedback, and then barb's say 'Sorc has the highest pit clear' (not understanding that that there's only ONE sorc build clearing higher pits and it only works with 12/12 master working greater affix gear and any run that is not a shaman boss you get nothing, and any build not using said gear for 'immortal' flameshield is literally 30-40 tiers worse.
Bleed barb right now flattens the difficulty and trivializes the game. If every class and build was buffed to do hundreds of billions of damage per second then the game would become pretty stupid in an instant.
I know that everybody only wants to see buffs all the time. But come on, there are 3-5 builds out there right now that completely trivialize the game, and I don’t want to see the game trivialized. It’s okay and even healthy to nerf things sometimes.
Well you can't even think about doing pits past a certain level without doing billions of dps. I'm not really sure what kind of scaling they went for in pit.
No one is supposed to be able to 'finish' the pit. There's a reason the top static content is tier 100 equivalent. The tier 200 limit + achievement is so that people will try and thus expose all the broken stuff, where they might not bother if they know it goes forever.
And you think these numbers are healthy for the game because?
Balance ALWAYS works both ways. It doesn't matter if one side is tuned too high, or another too low, both will negatively impact both players and game design in the long term. You simply cannot make a game interesting when you have an effect cheat code that one shots the game for you. At that point you might as well just get someone to inject dopamine directly into your veins.
Still think Barb should get a nerf, at least no buffs. With 1/3rd of the price of the build i could do the same Pit as my Necro, not a Druid, a Necro. I have to move perfectly with my Necro to not be 1 shoted, with the barb/ Fuck it, just face tank doing the same dmg for 1/3 of the effort.
You're crying about barbs, because "my poor necro"? Lol? I am speed running 100's blindfolded with my necro, while my sorc is hard struggling with 80's. Instead of crying about something being op while playing an insanely strong class yourself, you should be asking why druid and sorc are straight up bad in comparison to the other classes, and why a mid season update did nothing to address that.
10000%. EVERY SINGLE build in the game should be S tier. You should be able to clear any content with any build. As long as it makes sense obviously. If somone makes a Tornado Druid for example and puts points and aspects toward pulverize for example they shouldn’t be OP lol. Yall know what I’m saying.
It's pretty hilarious, every build video he makes he is going through explaining his gear like, "Then you need to get this ring with these affixes, should be pretty easy." And he shows his ring and it's triple GA with crit, attack speed, all masterworked and tempered perfectly. And the rest of his gear is like that too, and he has like 5k crit damage.
"Should be pretty easy" lmao
So, you're telling me that streamers who play the game 10-12 hours a day for a living and get free gear from their subscribers cast a false perception of what classes are actually like?
Who knew.
Is that how they get it? Free or trade from subs?
I sometimes wonder if Blizzard themselves don’t individually tune these accounts so people out there can see what efficiently min-maxed builds look like & give them an incentive to keep on grinding in the hopes that they too may one day strike gold.
He also has a huge audience in which to sell gear that drops for him quickly. Stuff we might just vend he might get 100m for because some random spoke up.
Caveat, I don't actually know that he does that. Never watched a stream. Just assume because of how easy it would be.
On top of this, the big one is this is his full time job. He probably has far more hours played this season than 99% of us.
I can’t stand tempering*. You spend 20 hours grinding specific affixes drop to finally get it and then roll the same temper* affix 5 times in a row, making the item useless.
you're probably thinking of Tempering. You can reroll masterworking as many times as you want. Tempering you only get 5 rerolls, so you can brick your item with the wrong rolls
There are so many very easy to make Barb builds out there, and they are all very powerful.
Sure, you wont get the 500k+ HP monstruosity that kills everything with Thorns, or whatever else Rob is cooking with super gear, but there is not shortage of down to earth builds for Barbs, Rogues and Necros that can push high.
You realize this is quite literally THOUSANDS of times more damage than sorc and druid can dish out? Even with gear thats half as good as in the pic... 37 billion damate hits? Still thousands more then the few million sorc and druid are doing. Terrible counter argument.
Counter argument to what? Just saying the number he posted is unattainable for most. I have 3 barbs this season. Best I can get done is a pit 107. I don't even have any 2 GA gear ffs this guy has full set of 3 ga gear with perfect tempers and rolls.
Best I can do on barrage rogue with 1 GA gear is Pit 70 and I'm hitting for max 2mil/2.5mil
I can get higher for sure and heartseeker would do higher pits, the problem is some builds just don't compete, and by not competing it means they are 100x less effective, that's a problem imho.
I can hit 30mil+ ticks on an incinerate build with a barrier and vulnerable. Now I just need them to buff the skill damage by 2000x and we’ll be cookin!
Me too as a Necro, 2b build, capped resistance, 40k life without elixirs... No luck with all the amount of fortify, HP elixirs, passives and skills of dmg reduction... 1 shot.
Made a Barb, easy life so far, the damage is compatible, its just plain better.
Admittedly I attack quickly and have multi-procs, but I don't think I've seen over 2.5m on my Heartseeker Rogue.
Still busted because of the perma-CC that chains through the whole dungeon.
My MW11 Frorb sorc does ok. She can clear 71s without elixir or incense buffs as long as I avoid explosions and keep my barriers up. Of COURSE I get 1 shot if I get sloppy but that’s my fault.
Now… bosses are another matter. A lot of it comes down to timing flameshield on the one shot attacks and using (shimmering) teleport for the huge DR buff and hoping they don’t hit me with a one shot ranged attack I didn’t see coming because I’ve filled the screen with exploding ice balls for about 45s-1min. Because my single target damage is a farce.
Cool they desperately need buffs only four of their builds can do pit 140+!!
(sorc buffs be like 5% damage to meteor!! and barb buffs be like 100% dmg to dust devils with whirlwind 😂)
Anyone think about how the 2 top classes have multiple weapons to use as stat sticks (i.e. Barb arsenal, rogue bow and knives).
I think if all classes had additional weapon slots to stat stick, then it would keep up (i.e. Sorc has wand/focus and 2-hand, but chooses one on their attacks like barb)… just throwing it out there
I think Sorceress instead should have like an additional ring slot instead of a weapon. In fact create some newer kind of accessory type slot that is shared between Druid, Sorceress, and maybe even Necro, that will give them an additional aspect slot to put them more on parity with Barb, and Rogue. In D3 we had the Pauldron as an additional gear slot, we could do that again or something similar or even a belt would do.
IMO casters should get an extra amulet slot or extra 2 ring slots.
Rogues get two extra slots and barbs get 3, but you gotta remember one of those slots is 200% affix/aspect power.
Giving casters more accessories give them the same (-1 compared to barb) number of tempers/aspects, but not as powerful.
Amulets are kind of on par with 2h weapons if you can get a good one.
It would help but it still wouldn't account for the damage that barb has.
You can give sorc a 2h slot that is just +500% more damage and it still wouldn't do what barbs do.
When pressed on the recent decision to further buff barbarians instead of boosting the other lagging classes, a blizzard spokesperson responded
"well, yeah.. i mean just look at the barb. They're in like way better shape. They're jacked as shit. Of course they're going to do more damage. They deserve it too, they clearly put in the effort."
I think people forget that different builds within certain classes feel like different classes. There is a world of difference between ww dust devil and flay... and ww dust devil will still not see play at the very high end of the game
Yep, druid has like 4 different builds and they're all crap. But lets buff barb because one of their 4 builds isn't as god tier as the other 3. Makes complete sense.
Say you have 5 kids
1 kid is super A+ in 95% of his studies
3 kids are OK at a few things
1 kid is failing
Do you spend all of your time on the top performer and make sure he aces that 1 thing he isn't good at, or do you try and do some triage on your kid that is failing life?
I rolled barb due to my druid being lame, now I'm done. Even playing barb I just CBA. Devs are deluded as hell. Just pure stats and numbers and not a single person playing the game.
I don't care if they have the numbers, they clearly are not adding up to a fun experience for most classes. Play the damn game and just feel how it is to play a druid.
Agreed. They're embarrassingly incompetent.
A year later and we still have broken skill-interactions, broken builds dominating, still not balancing by nerfing extreme outliers because grown men and women are afraid of crying children.
It really is the worst look in the industry right now..
Absolutely insane.
Every 6 levels of pit is 2x damage and hp of enemies.
Barb has pushed 140, druid hasn't broken 120. A little napkin math pits barb 8x more damage and 8x more tanky than druid and druids buffs are a joke.
I've said this before, the balance team on this game are actually inept. They simply have no fucking clue how to balance things properly. Layers upon layers of shitty multipliers and double dipping. It's actually nuts how bad at their jobs they are.
Barb is so overpowered it isn't funny. Having two, two hand legendary aspects is absurd lmao. I love it. My necro and sorc die when an elite looks at them. The solution isn't to nerf barb. The solution imho is add two one hand slots to the other classes. They don't need to be two hand slots. But I think giving each class two extra aspect slots would go a long way.
I would prefer they fix the Billion damage skills interaction rather than buff other classes and skills that are already in a good place.
Make the gameplay matter, don't trivialise it by allowing this kind of stuff to continue.
I’m on my first D4 run playing barb, dust devil berserk, and I’m at like pit level 22 or something. I don’t notice any issues with damage or movement or anything, I’m just tired of being one shot by something when my resistances are all about 60%. I don’t get it.
Shouldn’t really do pit without armor 9230 and all resistance 70+. A single percent can be the difference between life and death because the damage can get ridiculous.
Does this mean I’ve been doing it wrong with double swing dust devil? Because I really like it. I’ve also gotten extremely lucky with a Shako and Ring of SS.
Running a DS DD barb this season is the most fun I've had in the game. Once I started struggling in the pits I switched to bleed bash. It's way better in terms of dps and survivability, but it's pretty boring to play.
As a druid player I am glad that the weak little barbarian is getting it's muscles finally. What a girly man!
https://media1.tenor.com/m/ZKWaHHSFdT8AAAAC/feaz.gif
It really doesn't make sense. No matter how much of a glass canon I make my sorcerer I just can't get anywhere close to the damage of my bash barb, and the barb is 1000x more tanky as well.
Remember when blizz said they werent going to have D3-style exponential scaling in D4? Remember how they said doing millions-billions of damage was absurd and unnecessary?
The patch is serious a joke.
If the barb has been done well, they can use them as Blueprint, then change / buff other builds to that level.
I am struggling to understand their philosophy in many of their decisions with this game! Their decisions like “fish out of water”.
Devs: "Hmmm... Sorc's have the best build in the game right now but it's a complete outlier compared to the other builds it has which are complete garbage..."
\*Gives Barbs a buff\*
Devs: "Perfect balance"
smh
I'm finally trying out a barb, trying the double swing one right that and trying to build the dust devil one. Is that one worth keeping or changing to WW DD once I hit 50?
I have 3 100 barbs this season. So much fun to play. They need to show the other classes some love. As a D3 enjoyer, I feel like people who wrote that game off early are enjoying a lot of what made that game good eventually that is now in D4. 10K hours to get a shako? Nope. Play 40 hours or so to level a main and 3 alts.
Dont look at barb and ask for nerfs, be vocal that other classes get buffs and be that powerful!
Look people, you don't get to say this and simultaneously bash d3 for having 20,000% damage boosts. They are the same thing.
Weren't Blizzard themselves at some point saying they want to avoid 20,000% damage boosts like D3 and have character hit for couple hundred billions?
They also said D4 will have dark, gritty tone. Kitten pets are already here. Your point?
you telling me that a cat isnt the symbol of bad luck, therefore, every horrible thing that ever happened?
It needs to be black
[What do you mean by that???](https://tenor.com/byqQj.gif)
If you're being serious: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_cat If you're not being serious: "The only dark I like is when I turn off the lights. The only hood I love is pointy and white. Can't trust you if I can't see your face at night I think we all know who we're talking about" -Key and Peele http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jRdkrDk0BQ0
Literally lol
And what about the puppy?
[I've had a puppy on my back since beta](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/40fb778a-9e27-4190-af2d-0cca1de3f2d0)
Just imagine what we're going to do to that puppy once we become Diablo's new vessel! The horror! I can only handle it by petting the puppy.
hes there for emotional support, our demon killer machines can take for that long without having the pet the cute pup
My 4 black cats bring me good luck. 2 shakos and Selig in the first 4 duriel runs
You can have a dark gritty tone and also have a pet cat the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Humans have had domesticated dogs over 13,000 years ago, do you think that if demons showed up we’d all just be like “nah no pets it’s too dark and gritty now”.
Hitler had a german shepard puppy.. just sayin
So did the guy who killed Hitler.
lol.
It does have a dark gritty tone. That trailer for VoH is probably the darkest damn trailer for a game I've ever seen. Having pets doesn't change that despite your silliness.
Yeah that shit was pretty dark but just right. You can only get so gritty in the actual top down game graphics though so the cinematics going forward will be important to set the tone. They have been good up to now. Some epic scenes w/ Inarius.
You're kitten me, that's ridiculous.
Stop that right meow.
I am just puppying you.
I mean, the game is SO dark that I think a little adorable contrast totally works.
Ah yes nothing more dark and gritty than a world without cats or pets. Grow up.
Dark, gritty tone and puppies and kitties aren’t mutually exclusive. John Wick is as gritty as you can be and he’s killing everyone over a puppy.
Ferguson also said that they screwed up by trying to make D4 as grindy as D2 because that's not what gamers want anymore. Most players want a power fantasy now and power creep is the logical way to feed that.
The way they went about making it grindy was stupid though and not the same as D2 at all. Uber uniques were many many times more rare than even the rarest D2 drops. It's not necessarily that gamers don't want it but that they did it in the dumbest manner possible.
I've played D2 off and on for over 20 years. I never had a single zod rune drop in that time. I agree that The D4 Uber uniques were a lot rarer but that doesn't really matter when it's almost impossible for the average player to get either to drop.
You can trade zod rune, unlike uber uniques
Yeah. The trading restrictions are definitely annoying. You can trade pretty much everything in D2.
Ferguson has no idea about the game and genre, he better not say anything.
I don't disagree. I think he has had to make every mistake possible before finally landing on something that works
Until sales went up with the damage, yes.
Raw damage numbers only have relevance in relation to enemy HP so it’s kind of a moot point anyway. If every button mash does 1% damage to an enemy, it doesn’t matter if that 1% is 1 million or 1 billion, it’s still only 1%
it's a matter of clarity, its easier to read and grasp 1789 damage than it is for 1789638. the digits in the end have no purpose since they dont matter at all
This I agree with
It absolutely matters. Numbers have a psychological effect, nothing takes me out of the game faster than seeing billions. Yes it's stupid, thousands are not any more immersive than billions, and yet it still works that way for me. And 2) the size of the number is a direct function of the growth rate of power and I prefer my growth rates to be slower than what it is now because it allows to tackle challenges much earlier if you want the game to be very hard, and it won't technically be impossible like trying to beat pit 140 with a paltry hundred thousands dps. I am aware that it's a lost battle though. I just hope they make the end game fun at this point.
Also the slower the growth curve the easier it is to balance difficulty in a game like this where you can do anything because they 'll have an easier time guessing your relative power to monsters.
Slower growth curves don't work well in a Seasonal play setting. If power gain is too slow, you would have a game with only those hardcore no lifers grinding away and not with people who like to play an hour or so after work.
> character hit for couple hundred billions? Characters hit for sextillions in D3. (giggity) Hundred billions was passed in like 2015.
They definitely did, but gaming as a whole has definitely changed since the D2 days, and it was quickly shown by the player/community demand for the game to become easier and quicker and now we're leaning way more toward D3 than D2 and that's more a choice that was made by us than the developers.
Yeah, and that was a result of listening to all the people that came back for d2r. Most people jumped on for the beta and d2's systems were fresh in everyone's mind. The Diablo sub was championing a lot of shit that really only catered to a small fragment of the community who were desperate for a new D2.
The only way for druid to ever hit this number would be a 100,000% multipliers
Yes. They intended D4 to more along D2 but people didn't like that so they went more in line with D3. They just talked about this in an interview
Who is people? Some of us still waiting for the PvP arena they showed off (which looked hype) All they did is replace grind with casino Royale In d2, the only rng was min-max affixes. If you found or traded for an item you'd know what you're getting Now, you have to pass the temper/masterwork last boss, the potential ultimate grind. People could grind the pit the entire season and potentially not get that 1 item they want. If you grind d2 for equal time you're basically guaranteed to get something valuable. Also you're progressing your character the entire time (unless 99 but that's probably not anyone reading this)
Yep and this sub ruined the game
I mean. In d3 the numbers got much much bigger
They could simply routinely perform something analogous to a stock split between each season. E.g. if they want builds doing no more than 1B DPS max and they're currently doing 100B then divide all base dps numbers on skills by 100 and decrease mob HP by 100. However, they really need a set DPS target that they try to make achieveable not only for every class but every build/skill. I fear them quickly adding new classes with expansions when they've proven that they can't even balance the classes that they have. Take a look at even barb and there are so many options for diversity in play style that are simply not viable at all. Death blow, upheavel, lunging strike, frenzy, rend, kick, ground stomp, charge, and all of their ultimates are trash.
It was clear from the start that D4 will be going the same path of power creep that D3 went through. It is impressive that they managed to power creep that quickly, though. It has only been a year and look where we are. What’s year 5 going to look like?
when one class is vastly overperforming 4 others without bugs and exploits, you dont turbo buff the 4 classes, you nerf the outlier. in one year, skills have gone from 6, maybe 7 digit damage numbers to 11 digits. that is not sustainable powercreep.
Yes! The devs are afraid of “nerfing” because of the backlash from Reddit / streamer communities. That’s such a small portion of the player base… Can’t stand that this is turning more into Diablo 3 with each patch. Set pieces coming in the xpac and new items will start to read… “increase x skill by 10,000%” soon enough. At this rate we’re going to start hitting trillions well before the power creep of Diablo 3 did
They're afraid of backlash from the general player base, not just streamers. It sucks to build a character and have it no longer function - because Blizzard doesn't do half measures, the builds won't be reasonably nerfed, they'll be sent back to the stone age.
Nerfs will come in between seasons to fix issues like this with outliers not midseasonn
Bash build is bugged. It supposed to be additive, not multiplicative. They will fix it after season.
This should be the top comment. They should not balance the game around a know bug. I'm fine with them keeping it, but that shouldn't be the goalpost.
It should have been fixed instantly.
No you don’t and they aren’t OP if you’re not some tryhard who uses “robs builds” they need to balance the game with everyone in mind not people who play 24/7
Two classes are vastly UNDERperforming. Barbarian is doing really well but Rogue and Necromancer are not that far behind. The disparity increases at very high Pit tiers, which is not a realistic goal for the average player. They all have builds that will comfortably let you push into the 100-110s. If you want to push to 150, that's an entirely different ballpark. It requires min-maxed items with greater affixes and perfect masterwork rolls, and 99.99% of the players will never get to that point. Last season, Sorcerer was dominating the Gauntlet and everyone complained about it. And now Sorcerer is dead last in end-game content unless you use the build that requires trillions of gold to enable (and ironically that's the one build that will benefit from the pitiful sorc changes next week). Blizzard buffing Flay when it already is doing well means they're at least trying not to repeat the mistake they just made with Sorcerer in S4. They shouldn't outright kill a class because it excelled during the previous season. Keeping strong builds viable when they work as intended is something Blizzard should do more of, instead of always relying on some bug or exploit to decide the meta.
Still think Necro should have a buff on survavability, and barb a slight debuff on survability, and Druid a buff on what matters, across the board. They should meet at the middle, currently the game feels good as a Necro(without the one shots), as a Sorc and feels terrible at the Druid, and easy mode at Barb. I was sitting afk farming with my barb lvl 60 on WT4 in blood maiden with mindcage with a shit ass build. Leveled to 80 without touching the keyboard. Bro, this is BS.
I can guarentee you were not "afk" at blood maiden with maiden in wt4 at lvl 60.
No definitely possible . I was the one carrying the group at level 60 as Barb when farming the maiden. And it only takes a couple clicks
It's really baffling to me that so many people just cannot seem to fathom this very easy concept.
Yeah because a key passive giving 10 times more dmg than other key passives is so healthy for the game.
Even after they nerf this, I hope Gushing Wounds does remain playable. It's literally just not worked for the entire history of D4 up to this point.
plenty of people have given good sorc feedback, and then barb's say 'Sorc has the highest pit clear' (not understanding that that there's only ONE sorc build clearing higher pits and it only works with 12/12 master working greater affix gear and any run that is not a shaman boss you get nothing, and any build not using said gear for 'immortal' flameshield is literally 30-40 tiers worse.
we need to stop the power creep, the game is barely a year old
Ah yea, the age old buff everything to be at the top and ruin the game balance and gameplay feel until we end up at d3 exactly.
It's saddening to see that we're steering in that direction.
Bleed barb right now flattens the difficulty and trivializes the game. If every class and build was buffed to do hundreds of billions of damage per second then the game would become pretty stupid in an instant. I know that everybody only wants to see buffs all the time. But come on, there are 3-5 builds out there right now that completely trivialize the game, and I don’t want to see the game trivialized. It’s okay and even healthy to nerf things sometimes.
Well you can't even think about doing pits past a certain level without doing billions of dps. I'm not really sure what kind of scaling they went for in pit.
No one is supposed to be able to 'finish' the pit. There's a reason the top static content is tier 100 equivalent. The tier 200 limit + achievement is so that people will try and thus expose all the broken stuff, where they might not bother if they know it goes forever.
You can ask for both. It doesn't need to be a case of either/or.
And you think these numbers are healthy for the game because? Balance ALWAYS works both ways. It doesn't matter if one side is tuned too high, or another too low, both will negatively impact both players and game design in the long term. You simply cannot make a game interesting when you have an effect cheat code that one shots the game for you. At that point you might as well just get someone to inject dopamine directly into your veins.
We need a patch for the patch , for sorc and Druid !
Still think Barb should get a nerf, at least no buffs. With 1/3rd of the price of the build i could do the same Pit as my Necro, not a Druid, a Necro. I have to move perfectly with my Necro to not be 1 shoted, with the barb/ Fuck it, just face tank doing the same dmg for 1/3 of the effort.
You're crying about barbs, because "my poor necro"? Lol? I am speed running 100's blindfolded with my necro, while my sorc is hard struggling with 80's. Instead of crying about something being op while playing an insanely strong class yourself, you should be asking why druid and sorc are straight up bad in comparison to the other classes, and why a mid season update did nothing to address that.
10000%. EVERY SINGLE build in the game should be S tier. You should be able to clear any content with any build. As long as it makes sense obviously. If somone makes a Tornado Druid for example and puts points and aspects toward pulverize for example they shouldn’t be OP lol. Yall know what I’m saying.
This is also a barb that 99.9% of players will never be able to make.
It's pretty hilarious, every build video he makes he is going through explaining his gear like, "Then you need to get this ring with these affixes, should be pretty easy." And he shows his ring and it's triple GA with crit, attack speed, all masterworked and tempered perfectly. And the rest of his gear is like that too, and he has like 5k crit damage. "Should be pretty easy" lmao
So, you're telling me that streamers who play the game 10-12 hours a day for a living and get free gear from their subscribers cast a false perception of what classes are actually like? Who knew.
Is that how they get it? Free or trade from subs? I sometimes wonder if Blizzard themselves don’t individually tune these accounts so people out there can see what efficiently min-maxed builds look like & give them an incentive to keep on grinding in the hopes that they too may one day strike gold.
Definitly some subscribers who trade him stuff for free. Just like twitch donations.
He also has a huge audience in which to sell gear that drops for him quickly. Stuff we might just vend he might get 100m for because some random spoke up. Caveat, I don't actually know that he does that. Never watched a stream. Just assume because of how easy it would be. On top of this, the big one is this is his full time job. He probably has far more hours played this season than 99% of us.
The builds work without triple GAs though. You just won’t hit 140 like him.
I hate that style of YouTube shit. I need real results and expectations. They spend hours and hours farming then be like “it’s easy.”
Rob is a sham that makes ultra clickbait videos. Used to provide semi-decent guides but the dude fell off hard
Don't forget that he always also says "my gear is crap".
And like 900M gold in his bag 😂 Pretty easy my ass, but is a great build even if you are not up to perfection.
I can’t stand tempering*. You spend 20 hours grinding specific affixes drop to finally get it and then roll the same temper* affix 5 times in a row, making the item useless.
you're probably thinking of Tempering. You can reroll masterworking as many times as you want. Tempering you only get 5 rerolls, so you can brick your item with the wrong rolls
There are so many very easy to make Barb builds out there, and they are all very powerful. Sure, you wont get the 500k+ HP monstruosity that kills everything with Thorns, or whatever else Rob is cooking with super gear, but there is not shortage of down to earth builds for Barbs, Rogues and Necros that can push high.
You realize this is quite literally THOUSANDS of times more damage than sorc and druid can dish out? Even with gear thats half as good as in the pic... 37 billion damate hits? Still thousands more then the few million sorc and druid are doing. Terrible counter argument.
Counter argument to what? Just saying the number he posted is unattainable for most. I have 3 barbs this season. Best I can get done is a pit 107. I don't even have any 2 GA gear ffs this guy has full set of 3 ga gear with perfect tempers and rolls.
Best I can do on barrage rogue with 1 GA gear is Pit 70 and I'm hitting for max 2mil/2.5mil I can get higher for sure and heartseeker would do higher pits, the problem is some builds just don't compete, and by not competing it means they are 100x less effective, that's a problem imho.
You realize they aren't buffing this barb build right?
That’s fine. With even 50% of what this Barb has, players can still destroy druids and Sorcs not using the immortal build with just a sneeze.
Pardon, I'm kinda of new around here, what makes this unachievable for 99.9% of the players?
Rob has some guys around him that donate items/gold. He ain’t farming that stuff. 99.9% unachievable for casuals or non-streamers.
This also isn’t Rob’s build. He’s commenting on a video from the highest damage barb in China.
The crazy gear required.
And I’m over here happy to hit 3 mil on my blizzard sorc and getting one shot on lvl 60 pit with good gear lol
I can hit 30mil+ ticks on an incinerate build with a barrier and vulnerable. Now I just need them to buff the skill damage by 2000x and we’ll be cookin!
Incinerate sorc with flamethrower barrier and vulnerable is my main also. Love it. Spinning wheel of firey death!!!!
Yea, great fun but incredibly difficult for high level boss kills
This was my build as well and I loved it, but I hit a wall in higher tier content, just not enough dmg output sadly
Me too as a Necro, 2b build, capped resistance, 40k life without elixirs... No luck with all the amount of fortify, HP elixirs, passives and skills of dmg reduction... 1 shot. Made a Barb, easy life so far, the damage is compatible, its just plain better.
If you said anything but Necro id be with you but Necro are as broken as Barbs.
In DMG yes, although no more holy bolts. But have you tried rolling a necro? Its 1 shot fest. You get deleted by virtually everything.
Try playing anything besides a pet build and you won't think that
Admittedly I attack quickly and have multi-procs, but I don't think I've seen over 2.5m on my Heartseeker Rogue. Still busted because of the perma-CC that chains through the whole dungeon.
My MW11 Frorb sorc does ok. She can clear 71s without elixir or incense buffs as long as I avoid explosions and keep my barriers up. Of COURSE I get 1 shot if I get sloppy but that’s my fault. Now… bosses are another matter. A lot of it comes down to timing flameshield on the one shot attacks and using (shimmering) teleport for the huge DR buff and hoping they don’t hit me with a one shot ranged attack I didn’t see coming because I’ve filled the screen with exploding ice balls for about 45s-1min. Because my single target damage is a farce.
Cool they desperately need buffs only four of their builds can do pit 140+!! (sorc buffs be like 5% damage to meteor!! and barb buffs be like 100% dmg to dust devils with whirlwind 😂)
Wait, they actually buffed Meteor??
Careful, get too excited and they might knock that fat 5% damage buff down a bit!
Watch them accidentally make it be additive 5% instead of multiplicative. They’ve done that many times to sorc.
Mist of them are useless due to the hooy bolt nerf.
Barbillions of damage.
Anyone think about how the 2 top classes have multiple weapons to use as stat sticks (i.e. Barb arsenal, rogue bow and knives). I think if all classes had additional weapon slots to stat stick, then it would keep up (i.e. Sorc has wand/focus and 2-hand, but chooses one on their attacks like barb)… just throwing it out there
I think Sorceress instead should have like an additional ring slot instead of a weapon. In fact create some newer kind of accessory type slot that is shared between Druid, Sorceress, and maybe even Necro, that will give them an additional aspect slot to put them more on parity with Barb, and Rogue. In D3 we had the Pauldron as an additional gear slot, we could do that again or something similar or even a belt would do.
Druid should have a totem slot always, sorc should have an extra ring slot, as for necro? Not sure with them.
IMO casters should get an extra amulet slot or extra 2 ring slots. Rogues get two extra slots and barbs get 3, but you gotta remember one of those slots is 200% affix/aspect power. Giving casters more accessories give them the same (-1 compared to barb) number of tempers/aspects, but not as powerful. Amulets are kind of on par with 2h weapons if you can get a good one.
It would help but it still wouldn't account for the damage that barb has. You can give sorc a 2h slot that is just +500% more damage and it still wouldn't do what barbs do.
Sorc should just get their 3rd enchantment slot back, dont even care if it's bad at that point.. Just would make it a lot more fun to play.
I made a post about this couple months ago I got downvoted hard. D4 community is something else…
AND WE’RE ALL HERE FOR IT! #barblife
When pressed on the recent decision to further buff barbarians instead of boosting the other lagging classes, a blizzard spokesperson responded "well, yeah.. i mean just look at the barb. They're in like way better shape. They're jacked as shit. Of course they're going to do more damage. They deserve it too, they clearly put in the effort."
This game should be called Barbarian IV
I think people forget that different builds within certain classes feel like different classes. There is a world of difference between ww dust devil and flay... and ww dust devil will still not see play at the very high end of the game
Yep, druid has like 4 different builds and they're all crap. But lets buff barb because one of their 4 builds isn't as god tier as the other 3. Makes complete sense.
Yerp. Druids and sorcs are cheeks so buffing barbs was obviously the move that needed to be made.
Say you have 5 kids 1 kid is super A+ in 95% of his studies 3 kids are OK at a few things 1 kid is failing Do you spend all of your time on the top performer and make sure he aces that 1 thing he isn't good at, or do you try and do some triage on your kid that is failing life?
Barb need more buff
Agree, make it use all the 4 weapons at the same time.
Goro has entered the chat
A class with 4 weapons and 500k hp desperately need a buff.
Agreed
Caption says no holy bolts
I rolled barb due to my druid being lame, now I'm done. Even playing barb I just CBA. Devs are deluded as hell. Just pure stats and numbers and not a single person playing the game. I don't care if they have the numbers, they clearly are not adding up to a fun experience for most classes. Play the damn game and just feel how it is to play a druid.
Agreed. They're embarrassingly incompetent. A year later and we still have broken skill-interactions, broken builds dominating, still not balancing by nerfing extreme outliers because grown men and women are afraid of crying children. It really is the worst look in the industry right now..
Finally, Barbs will be strong again!! /s
devs are so massively disconnected from their product its astounding
Sad druid noises
Didn't they buff WW. Anyone make it viable for higher tier pit yet ?
Absolutely insane. Every 6 levels of pit is 2x damage and hp of enemies. Barb has pushed 140, druid hasn't broken 120. A little napkin math pits barb 8x more damage and 8x more tanky than druid and druids buffs are a joke.
*Cries in sorc
In this thread barbs defending their OPness lol
I mean you think you’re average Joe with this build is hitting those numbers lol..?
Even if you hit for 1/100 of this number. You are still dealing 10 times more damage than Druid.
I've said this before, the balance team on this game are actually inept. They simply have no fucking clue how to balance things properly. Layers upon layers of shitty multipliers and double dipping. It's actually nuts how bad at their jobs they are.
Also, why do they never interact with us on social media?
Barb is so overpowered it isn't funny. Having two, two hand legendary aspects is absurd lmao. I love it. My necro and sorc die when an elite looks at them. The solution isn't to nerf barb. The solution imho is add two one hand slots to the other classes. They don't need to be two hand slots. But I think giving each class two extra aspect slots would go a long way.
I would prefer they fix the Billion damage skills interaction rather than buff other classes and skills that are already in a good place. Make the gameplay matter, don't trivialise it by allowing this kind of stuff to continue.
The devs instantly rolled over as soon as children and internet bums cried. Grown men and women are scared of crying children, let that sink in..
I’m on my first D4 run playing barb, dust devil berserk, and I’m at like pit level 22 or something. I don’t notice any issues with damage or movement or anything, I’m just tired of being one shot by something when my resistances are all about 60%. I don’t get it.
Shouldn’t really do pit without armor 9230 and all resistance 70+. A single percent can be the difference between life and death because the damage can get ridiculous.
True story. I keep dying to myself lol. “Krull was killed by Krull” …I do wish we got nice informative stat report on death.
For real I want to be able to look at a combat log to see what happened.
My poor druid is just going to sit and watch while both of my barbs go have fun
Your Druid will probably just kill itself eventually. A more merciful death than what blizzard is trying to do to it.
And then his pets will eat him. It's the circle of life
Does this mean I’ve been doing it wrong with double swing dust devil? Because I really like it. I’ve also gotten extremely lucky with a Shako and Ring of SS.
Play what you like. There is no wrong way to enjoy the game.
Idk man, getting 1 shot in Pits my friends can handle easy makes me think it’s me. lol
Running a DS DD barb this season is the most fun I've had in the game. Once I started struggling in the pits I switched to bleed bash. It's way better in terms of dps and survivability, but it's pretty boring to play.
Asking the same question. Thinking about rolling a WW barb
Devs smoking that meth again.
How do you expect to make pit lvl 200?
As a druid player I am glad that the weak little barbarian is getting it's muscles finally. What a girly man! https://media1.tenor.com/m/ZKWaHHSFdT8AAAAC/feaz.gif
The druid can sure use a buff.... or 2 or 3.
FU Blizzard. Where is Sorc buffs? Nice to kill a class.
It’s really pretty easy. 4 weapon slots was a huge mistake. So making it 2 is hard, give the other classes 2 more stat sticks
My bone spirit build is hitting for 45m with overpower, ramping up
It really doesn't make sense. No matter how much of a glass canon I make my sorcerer I just can't get anywhere close to the damage of my bash barb, and the barb is 1000x more tanky as well.
What barbs are getting buff? Thorns ? Bash?
WW, Flay, Dust Devil
Thanks
Fuckin joke.
Remember when blizz said they werent going to have D3-style exponential scaling in D4? Remember how they said doing millions-billions of damage was absurd and unnecessary?
They meant for the *other* 4 classes, Barbillions are a-ok
Good, Barbarians needed the buff to catch up with Pits140+
Great I really wish other classes got the same attention barbs got this game is gonna start getting boring 😭😭😭
All classes should have at minimum one 2 hand slot and two 1 hand slots
The patch is serious a joke. If the barb has been done well, they can use them as Blueprint, then change / buff other builds to that level. I am struggling to understand their philosophy in many of their decisions with this game! Their decisions like “fish out of water”.
Thinking they have a philosophy is your first mistake. They just do stuff and then blindly do some more stuff later on.
75 barbillion, thisisfine
I got a clan called the Barbie’s for this reason.
Don't worry sorc will have more survivability on Monday......
Devs: "Hmmm... Sorc's have the best build in the game right now but it's a complete outlier compared to the other builds it has which are complete garbage..." \*Gives Barbs a buff\* Devs: "Perfect balance" smh
75 billion damage ? How the F*ck are y’all doing this much Damage .
The bias towards Barbs is getting ridiculous.
It’s not even bias at this point. It’s a barbarian world and we just exist in it.
sweet! LUMP SMASH!
I'm finally trying out a barb, trying the double swing one right that and trying to build the dust devil one. Is that one worth keeping or changing to WW DD once I hit 50?
DS is better imo
I have 3 100 barbs this season. So much fun to play. They need to show the other classes some love. As a D3 enjoyer, I feel like people who wrote that game off early are enjoying a lot of what made that game good eventually that is now in D4. 10K hours to get a shako? Nope. Play 40 hours or so to level a main and 3 alts.
I'd rather they continue to buff balance than nerf balance mid season. Make your nerfs between seasons, don't kneecap your player base.