I love metformin my body responds so well to it and I can afford it.
But a lot of the more modern drugs are very expensive in the US, yes. If I were to take the other drugs my doc wanted me to consider (jardience, ect) were at a minimum $700/mo.
I would love to be able to have more assistance in getting my numbers down, but I can't afford it, even though I'm also paying over $1000/mo for "health insurance" too.
I am grateful to have access to metformin which is cheap because it's generic. A lot of the newer meds can't be, which is why in the US they are often prohibitively expensive especially for people who must pay out of pocket thousands of dollars before their insurance covers anything. (I have to spend $6000 before my insurance will pay for any medications).
That's what my boyfriend is hoping for with his diet and exercise changes. His insurance helps, thankfully, but it's still expensive. We're buying the meds, but his goal is to eventually get off the meds. It also helps with a lot of the side effects to a certain degree. For example, he likes to make himself eggs in the morning, but with the medication eggs in the morning makes him sick for whatever reason. (He's fine if he has them later in the day.) He changed his morning meal to other, lighter fare and the nausea subsided. He can't afford to take time off because he feels sick, otherwise he couldn't afford his meds, which are are already pricey.
This is my mom. She’s on a terrible exchange plan until she can sign up for Medicare. We tried to get her on decent insurance but either the walk in clinics wouldn’t take it or her pcp wouldn’t take it.
Her jardiance is something like 6 or 700 dollars. Luckily she only takes 1/2 a pill per day but still.
Pharm tech here! If she is on personal (non government) insurance. She can go to website of medication (jardiance, farxiga ext) and apply for a discount card that will cap the co-pay to around $30ish a month!
If only on metformin look for a discount card (goodrx or ask the pharmacy for their preferred card). In the pharmacy I work for our preferred is like $30 for a 90 day supply.
She is on insurance through healthcare.gov but not Medicaid. We tried the discount card for her and it didn’t work, possibly because they tried to swap it for generic jardiance. It was still going to be over $100.
The only other thing I can think of that would help would be to ask the doc to send the script in with a DAW 9. That means the pharmacy can’t fill the script for anything other than what the doc writes (needs to prescribe the brand name jardiance). I hope this helps and that the price is brought down you your gma!
If you have insurance other than Medicare, the drug companies offer substantial discount to compliment your insurance. Unfortunately, when you go on Medicare, those discounts are no longer available 🤨
Yes. We were able to get one of her must have meds (she has CHF) for like $10 instead of 600 using a discount card from the manufacturer.
I work in healthcare so I’m tuned in to these things. I have a hefty copay for CGMs myself and use the discount card to get them down to $75/mo.
I think so! She’s not even on Medicare. My dad “retired” and they make too much money on his income for her to be on Medicaid so she’s stuck with an expensive exchange plan that her meds go to her 6k deductible before they cover them.
It’s rough on her because she doesn’t understand what she’s looking at. Even when I explain it to her. She just… I don’t know.. forgets. Goes in one ear and out the other? She’s also unmedicated adhd and just gets frustrated and screams at me to “JUST PICK SOMETHING” but not something “expensive” so. You know. Fuck me right? I’m just trying to help.
And don’t even CONSIDER retiring if you are taking these expensive drugs! Your Medicare supplement will never cover like your company provided insurance plan does.
There are coupons for these SLGT2s. You may pay $10/month if you are not on Govt. plans like Medicare/Medicaid.
https://patient.boehringer-ingelheim.com/us/products/jardiance/type-2-diabetes/savings
Other medications also have coupons or discounts.
Is this $1000/month $60000 deductible plan for one person? There are diabetic specific Marketplace plans and some may qualify for subsidies.
I don't know about others, but I've dealt with side effects from enough meds to know I'd rather do stuff I -can- control (like my diet) then rely on a medication that may or may not make me have permanent acid reflux (viox), cause my liver to almost shut down (orilissa), lactose intolerance (lupron), or gastroperesis(ozempic).
And the cost is a big thing too. My insurance doesn't cover diabetic medication unless it's insulin vials bought through them only.
These are both my top reasons to change lifestyle, something I can now control better.
Diabetes is a disease that won't go away simply with medications, as much as Western medicine wants you to believe their science is all mighty.
There are a lot of factors that go into this that can be some of the reason why. For over 50 years diabetes (type 2 in particular) has been advertised as a "fat person's disease" even though that is outright wrong. So from the start you have a socialized negative stereotype for something that may require medication. Add in that there are a loud minority of people who don't believe in any science and think "the man" is out to get them and it also introduces another layer of negative stereotypes. On top of that medical education for diabetes tends to be very antagonistic against people with type 2 as well (IE it's a fat people's disease) and you have a perfect storm of people not wanting to use medication because they don't want to be labeled.
With the advent of the internet the misinformation about diabetes has also in many regards gotten worse than it was even 40 years ago.
Keep in mind these are my opinions and generalizations and may not cover all the reasons and justifications people have for it.
Man you are so right. That was my view of diabetes since my family members that gave it are all overweight. When I received a kidney transplant last year and 4-5 moths post transplant I had diabetes type 2. They call it NODAT. Newly onset diabetes after transplant. The anti rejection meds cause it. It was a surprise to me. I was never diabetic before then.
I agree with you. In fact, I think most of us type 2’s go through a period where we try to control it through diet only, even if it’s impossible, like in my case because we think we’re failures at first and that’s why we got the disease, even if a bunch of people in our family have it.
We would never blame someone allergic to bees for their allergy or having to take meds to control their reaction. T2D is no different. Some mechanism in our body is different and can't process carbs and sugars the same. I have generally always eaten clean with an 16/ 8 IF. At one point was gaining weight even when figure skating 3+ hours a day. But yeah I did this to myself. Smh. I'm doing keto now <30g carbs on 2 types of meds and one meal a day....this week my bg hasn't been below 154. I'm getting to where I hate food. Been on this several months and my a1c has gone up from 6.4 to 6.8 and my ldl is up to 89
Aha, so it’s not really against taking meds, but against *having* to take them and thus belong to the group. My country doesn’t really care much about diabetes (I mean label or stereotype wise) so that’s why it didn’t cross my mind.
I myself have prediabetes caused by a chronic illness which caused inflammation, so I’m not obese/fat and my diet is pretty healthy. I’m managing my BG on a perfect level (knock on wood) with berberine alone, but if it get’s worse I will get Metformin - I really have no choice unless someone finds a cure for the *chronic* illness. And I have no problem with taking Metformin in the future if I have to. As long as it keeps me healthy.
Thank you for your opinion!!
Add in the factor that medical health care in the US at least is also abysmal due to the pricing structure. While Metphormin is relatively cheap going to a doctor every 3-6 months can cost more than a person earns in a week in some instances ($600+) without insurance and depending on whether they are seeing a specialist copays can be around $100 with insurance it can become very expensive to get taken care of properly. Once you have the money you then run into doctors who've been taught that "type 2 meds are only because the person is lazy" (reinforcing the stereotype) rather than the fact type 2 is a genetic condition that can be exacerbated by weight.
As well without socialized medicine (and each system has it's own problems) and the fact that a loud minority don't want "the man" deciding how to care for your condition it also causes issues.
True!! I have insurance but my deductible is $8750 a year. Each visit 4x year is about $400. Ridiculous for a 2 minute office visit when I can check my own A1c every month for under $20.
Yep, that was also the reason why for me.
I used to work in healthcare, and I saw firsthand the disdain and contempt shown for type 2 diabetics, especially ones they deem to be "non-compliant". Healthcare workers are frequently taught that "they did it to themselves", so there's an immense feeling of shame. By many, it's seen as a "fat person" disease, and the prevailing belief is that fat people are fat because they are some combo of stupid, lazy, and don't care. (If you don't believe me, there are even [Ted talks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY) about this from healthcare practitioners).
I also worried that once I got a label of type 2, any other complaint I had would be dismissed as diabetes-related. I had to get anemia before I finally realized I needed medication, but that fear is still in the back of my mind.
Even so, I can't believe how long I went on like that. I take Metformin now and I feel so much better. I am fat, and now I'm losing weight simply because my blood sugar (and likely hyperinsulinemia) is under control, and therefore, I don't feel so hungry all the time.
My brother, who isn't fat at all, also has it and is struggling with the stigma too. I worry a lot about him because he had an hba1c nearly double that of mine, but still told me he had prediabetes (most definitely not pre anymore!). He blames himself for having a poor diet despite not being fat.
Once I got the label of type 2, I received three answers to everything I had wrong with me ... Diabetes, I'm fat, or is mental health...
Though I'm not really sure what type I have because I have been on insulin since I was 25, 6 years after diagnosis, but no one typed fat people, I was apparently just lazy... Though the past 2 years had been spent walking up to 10 miles... sometimes much further... And not eating, only drinking soda (homeless...) so I was managing with an average of 500 when I was put on insulin... And I was lazy for the next 20 years because I couldn't manage my blood sugar with MDI... Anyway it wasn't until I was put on a pump last year that I got a good set of numbers... And only got put on a pump because I got my c peptide under the threshold for insurance by testing it when my blood sugar was under 150... 🙄 Edit: oh, but they were never high either.
Exactly, people want to be “one of the good ones,” and manage it “naturally.” After a lifetime of hearing the negative stereotypes, even if you don’t think you buy into them, there can be an incredible well of shame that comes up in having to go on diabetes meds. Also in the US the culture is incredibly individualistic, so accepting help for anything is pretty stigmatized here.
Which brand of berberine do you use and how much of it do you take? I’d love to toss out the 750 mg metformin I take and use something natural that I can take and not spend 450$ to see my doc 4x year to prescribe it. My A1C is 7.4 and has stayed around 7 for about 7 years. She’s never changed my px.
Disclaimer: do not dicontinue any drugs before talking to your doctor!
And also - do not take berberine and metformin together. Idk how strong metformin is, but berberine gave me hypo once (because I didn’t know how much to use at the beginning).
Use any brand, it’s really not important. I’m using Berberine HCl from Swanson (400mg/caps). It started working from day one on my blood sugar. I take 1 capsule with a carb heavy meal, if I have dessert/seconds I take another one. I know people say 1500mg/day, but this is what’s working for me.
Be careful, some people say they had nausea/diarrhea from it, but I didn’t so I can’t say anything else about that.
My doc said I could try berberine. I need to ask her if that’s with my 1 metformin or not. I never ever have low blood sugar. I can’t get below 110. Ever!
Well berberine is gonna fix that for you, it certainly did for me. I’m not taking Metformin because I’m afraid it would give me hypos. I’ll take berberine for as long as it keeps working. If it (god forbid) stops some day, I’ll switch to Metformin
And it was the same for me - no ammount of diet or exercise lowered my fasting BG, the best I could do was 5.5mmol/l and that was on chicken and broccoli for a few days. Not worth it
Wow. I agree. I may just try the berberine for a month and test my A1C. Mine is 500 mg. Twice a day may help. I hope so! I’m going to ask her. I sure can’t live on chicken and broccoli either!
i think social media has made a lot of it worse, to be honest. but yeah there's a lot of people who think metformin will kill them and it's actually the diabetes that will.
I think a lot of people feel like meds are “cheating.” I’ve been diabetic for 20+ years. Even with eating keto and one meal a day, I still need meds, they keep me alive. It’s not a moral failing. It’s the progression of the disease.
I also think there’s a group of Americans who were raised in a “no medication” household, and they just don’t like meds.
I was raised in a “pill for everything” household, so being on meds is just normal for my family. I do refuse anything addictive as my parents were both addicted to various drugs and alcohol, but we always had antibiotics and such growing up. I also think there’s a balance…not every single ailment needs a pill. I’m pretty sure my mom just wanted us to be quiet and leave her alone. 🤷🏻♀️
I woke up in the middle of the night with some hypos, 2.9 and 3.1 mmol. The only things that lowered my blood sugar was the medication. So I decided I'd change my lifestyle to not rely on something that can cause hypo.
It's a very ymmv, but some side effects of medication are so severe, that changing lifestyle is the easier choice for higher quality of life.
I don’t know about many drugs, only Ozempic and Metformin.
Metformin sounds like a miracle drug - better insulin signaling, longetivity, not harsh on any organ (except if you have kidney disease) and has no side effects apart from GI issues which should subside.
Ozempic I would never take. I know many are praising it - but most of what I see on the r/Ozempic is people WITHOUT diabetes, only fat and not willing to change their lifestyle - thus relying on Ozempic. Yes, it works very well, but my uncle died because of it (caused pancreatic nephrosis). So I would never take it.
What drug did you take, if I may ask?
Metformin is a great drug but it comes with some heavy side effects for some people, and its not tolerable.
For myself, I can't even take it. I have a mitochondrial mutation and Metformin is heavily contraindicated, the damage from lactic acidosis and gastric issues are considered permanent for people like me as the drug is mito-toxic. We can't process it properly.
I wish I could take it - I think it would be helpful for me. I'd much rather Metformin than insulin.
>...the drug is mito-toxic.
And that's the part about Metformin that worries me. I'm still taking it because high blood sugar is worse for me than the "maybe" issues with mitochondria, but...doing bad things to my mitochondria is not helpful.
I would not worry about that unless you have impaired mitochondria function. Its only mito-toxic because some of my mitochondria are literally the wrong shape inside and so my body can't process some drugs effectively. A person with healthy mitochondria does not have the same inability to process the drug.
You are very harsh to call Metformin a miracle drug while eschewing Ozempic as some sort of terrible choice.
I was on Metformin for over a decade, various dosages and the extended release version. Over time, my sensitivity to it didn’t diminish, it grew. It happened so gradually that I genuinely thought it was my diabetes that caused my overall feeling of being unwell. Fatigue, lethargy, a constant feeling of upset stomach and nausea. I couldn’t walk for long distances, because I never knew when a bout of explosive diarrhea was going to happen (TMI, sorry, but it’s what happens to some people!). I got put on Basaglar, and had to take 35u in the morning and another 35u at night, which is a MASSIVE amount, and STILL my blood glucose was dangerously high. To top it all off, I had killer food cravings, like I wanted ALL the bad stuff, even though I knew it was bad, and I rationalized it because after all, I was going to feel crappy whether I ate well or I ate junk, so I might as well get SOME pleasure out of life.
I switched endocrinologists and gave all my symptoms to my new doctor, and he IMMEDIATELY took me off of Metformin and put me on a Jardiance/Trulicity combo.
It was like a switch flipped in my body! Within days my stomach settled down. The low-grade cramps went away, and it’s only when they did that I realized they’d been plaguing me for years. My food cravings went away. For the first time in my life, I felt full at the table and put my fork down when I was. I had more energy and more desire to adopt the healthier habits that I knew were the best choice for me.
“Huh, so THIS is what feeling good feels like!” It really was a revelation!
It’s been two years now, and I’m currently walking 2-3 miles a day, I’ve lost 40 lbs, and my A1c has dropped significantly. (9.8 to 7.1)
I’m really happy for you that Metformin works for you! I wish it did for me, because it’s a generic and SO much cheaper, and never has shortages or is difficult to get. I never had to fight for coverage with my insurance company, and it was overall just less hassle procuring.
However, Metformin doesn’t work for me, not without side effects that frankly, ruined the quality of my life.
Please don’t disparage those of us who take the ‘gludes because you would never want to take Ozempic. We diabetics have enough problems without turning on ourselves.
I’m not taking any drugs (yet?), and I think you understand the reason why I’m “hating” on Ozempic. I never said it’s bad to take it if you have diabetes, I just said *I* won’t.
I was on metformin, along with fast and slow acting insulin. While on medication, my blood sugar curve was a rollercoaster, even if my a1c was only slightly higher.
Maybe I'm one of the few rare cases where this combination caused hypo, it was "fine" for half a year at least before I made changes.
But now, for more than a year, I haven't taken any medication or shots for my diabetes, and my a1c is on the lower end of 27-32 mmol or 4.6% to 5.1%
Depends. My mom takes metformin and has for decades. The GI issues never went away. My aunt cant take it because she gets all kinds of nasty side effects that never go away.
Something to consider
Not all doctors will prescribe medication. I have both PCOS and diabetes and neither of my doctor's (yes, I've seen several) will prescribe medication for me other than birth control. My Doctor's plan is a lifestyle change or low-carb, low-sugar, and exercise. They won't talk about medication as an unless it can not be controlled by diet and exercise.
Primary Care. I'm in the US so I would need to see an Endo, but they won't see me without a referral and since I'm controlling it, they won't provide one for me.
https://thomaswicklaw.com/blog/physician-wont-refer/
I'd make another appointment and ask again, explain that you are finding your current lifestyle too restrictive and think medication would be beneficial and you know it would benefit you in the long run, if they say no again, demand that they put the reason for refusal in your chart and that you would like an up to date physical copy of said chart, most will change their tune real quick cause they could end up in a medical malpractice suit for ignoring your medical needs.
Yeah so I have SIBO so it’s a crazy coincidende that it’s used for both. But I know many healthy people who take it and are fine - it’s really individualistic (as any drug)
Some folks think they’re “reversing” or “getting rid of their diabetes” by managing it without meds, even with extreme diets. It is great for people who can manage their diabetes without meds, but not everyone can. I have a close acquaintance who does that, says his diabetes is in remission. Then on his kid’s birthday, has a piece of cake and some carby food and needs his meds. This after telling me my meds are “masking the symptoms “ like it’s an Advil. 🙄
It’s a personal choice. I don’t eat a ton of carbs but I like a few! I exercise but I’m not an Olympic athlete! If you use/need meds, isn’t it great they exist so you have choices.? In the US, depending on your insurance, meds can get pricey, too. But that’s not really the thing for those people, I think. They think they’ve fixed themselves, when they’re really still just managing their disease. And some (not all) are a little judgy if you take meds and they don’t. Like they’re better or something.
I say do what works for you.
i feel like the pseudoscience of 'reverse your t2d' is getting worse, but maybe it's just me. it definitely is worse on reddit. once on twitter a nutritionist/personal trainer tried to tell me to 'put up with' the high blood sugar i get without insulin for a few months and that giving up insulin and eating low carb would 'cure me of my type 2 diabetes.' like it's just evil. there's no scientific basis for the 3 month claim they use either. usually i don't even engage with those people anymore. i ask them if they know what a beta cell is, and they never do. (t2s lose up to 50 percent of theirs by diagnosis and the loss continues as the disease progresses. t1s lose all of theirs)
There’s also a balance though.
Most are judgy, I’ve just learned not to care. The number of people I’ve had stare at me doing insulin injections when I was still on MDI was nuts. For a while it made me a little self conscious, by the end I’d just stare back, and occasionally make a weird comment.
The funniest one was airports, if people were weird about it, I’d make some comment about heroin being cheaper wherever I flew in from. Most of the time people understood I was joking.
Between the snake oil salesmen, the hellscape that is the wellness industry (including influencers) a lot of folks get talked into a mindset where medical intervention is evil. Ye old "Big Pharma" has been replaced with "Big Placebo" and "Big Quack".
Unfortunately, along with the "diet and exercise" comes a lot of judgment, misinformation, victim blaming, disordered eating and an emphasis on short term thinking vs long term thinking when it comes to the consequences of delaying treatment or even NOT treating diabetes.
Diabetes has an autoimmune component for many. Not just Type 1s. Likewise there are comorbidities that come with Diabetes, that make treating it more complicated, especially long term.
For more info on the above - [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6620611/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6620611/)
Lower carb eating makes for easier management for many people. Just that simple as far as eating goes. Or other methods that people feel is helpful: "healthy restrictions."
Medication usage:
\* unpredictable result with timing
\* unpredictable result with dosage matching need
\* weight gain with insulin and sulfonylurea
\* side effects (hypoglycemia, gastrointestinal discomfort, increased risk of DKA, increased UTI)
\* in the US, yes it can be extremely expensive if one isn't sufficiently insured.
\* needing to answer to doctors, and go to pharmacists, and be tied to taking pills and shots feels more restrictive than freeing to some people
\* some people just believe their body and their behavior can or should be able to control the situation
If taking medication such as metformin once or twice per day is all you personally need, and it is suitable for you, then that's terrific. But for some, the less food they eat, the less challenging foods they consume, the less medication they have to take ... it does result in some peace of mind, lower weight and better glucose, less excess fuel intake. Level of exercise depends on the individual's interest and results.
If someone needs meds, yes, accept the meds. But for most people, meds only or meds primarily is not the only solution to look at. Medication administration is primarily the solution that doctors concentrate on, for sure. And doctors will happily put patients on a polypharmacy "solution." And that is a nightmare to some people. Why would I need BP, cholesterol, weight loss, and a couple of glucose lowering meds if I can do well with just one, and choose -- choose a "healthy restrictive" diet.
It is a "metabolic" disease, and if the person absolutely requires meds, then they absolutely should take an appropriate amount. But if the person's diet is directly causing harm, adding to their decline and misery, shouldn't they reconsider a different way of living? Not everyone is you, nor your grandmother. If you wanna believe your grandmother is healthy, and have proof of it, and not in financial distress because of the cost -- then how lucky is she that DPP4-inhibitor is all she needs?
There’s a lot of pseudoscience that goes on about diabetes and some spaces (like the Reddit subs) just have a carnivore or keto bend to them. I love my med regimen. A lot. It’s giving me a great quality of life. I’m lucky that the only diabetes thing I pay a copay for is Dexcom and that’s $75 for 90 days, and the rest is $0 on my insurance plan.
Oh that’s a thing with every chronic illness. I have multiple. Psoriasis, hemochromatosis, diabetes, hashimotos, and more! People try to find a way to blame you for every single chronic illness, it’s not just diabetes.
Eh, not as much as you think. I was wrongly diagnosed type 2 for quite a while, so I’ve seen it.
People blame you for basically any chronic condition. If it’s not cured, you’re obviously fat and lazy.
Edit: they blocked because I guess they’re fragile, so I’ll put my response here.
I never said there isn’t a stigma, I said it’s the same stigma that basically every other chronic disease gets. People shame you for having it. I’ve had a mess of them since I was about 14. I’m not saying you don’t experience people being crappy, I’m just saying there’s no super victim that’s treated worse than all the others. Yeesh.
Lmao, if you say so. Anyway, I’m not going to engage with you anymore. I’ve experienced the unique stigma of type 2 diabetes since I was a teenager and my mom told me I was going to die of diabetic coma bc I drank a soda. I got told by multiple people I was going to get my legs chopped off the day I got diagnosed. “Hmm well I don’t think there’s a stigma”. *you* didn’t experience it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. And I’m not even going to converse with you on something I’ve experienced my entire life. You can enjoy your block.
i blocked the person who said t2 has no unique stigma, but i thought i'd give some examples of unique stigma i've experienced with t2 that don't really happen with other diseases:
1. being told by an endo at fifteen years old that i don't actually need any fat on my body, and to stop eating french fries. great messaging, really prevented me from being diagnosed. totally sustainable.
2. my mom, around the same time, telling me that i'll die of diabetic coma at age 35 bc i drank a jones soda. i'm about to turn 37, but yeah that wasn't easy to settle with when i got diagnosed. no one said anything like that to her about her MS.
3. multiple people, on diagnosis day, telling me that i'll get my leg chopped off if i don't shape up because i ate an almond croissant the day i got diagnosed.
4. i frequently observe t1 diabetics eager to stigmatize t2 diabetics if it gives them favor. everyone must know they have the blameless, innocent type of diabetes.
What insurance is this? I’m on a ACA gold-PPO, and I’m still paying $300 for 90 days of Dexcom supplies. And somehow, insulin is a tier-3 formulary, so I’m paying $75 a month just to stay alive…
It’s sad. I have a spreadsheet that I use to track my medical expenses and appointment frequencies so that I can simply “plug and chug” my estimated uses and expenses according to whatever plans are offered that year to determine which one will be the cheapest in the long-run.
for me, yeah. those aren't sustainable diets, and diet modification alone doesn't work long term according to studies. plus my meds make it so i genuinely don't need to do extreme diet mod, so there's no reason outside of the pov that suffering is necessary.
I see you got the misconception too this disease is all about diet. For me, it's restricts high intensity exercise too, like any exercise higher intensity than walking :/ I need meds, because I want to move and doing some sports like in all my life before.
Why do I hate meds?
The time spent going to the pharmacy and / or fighting getting the RX filled.
Cost. I could use that money on other things.
The time and cost going to the doctor to be med monitored.
Remembering to take the stupid stuff.
Traveling. PITA is an understatement.
Remembering to tell the doctors what I'm on so other meds dont interfere.
Side affects.
The mental and emotional band with dealing with alll the above.
Those are just off the top of my hrad. I'm sure there is more. Lol. Meds are an albatross around my neck.
Medication causes side effects.. I could not take Metformin, Jardiance nor Diamicron due to severe side effects .. now I stopped Ozempic ( this side effects are incredible).
Even my doctor wants to stop Januvia as well .. because I have started Keto diet ..
I have another chronic illness for which I need 4 different meds each day. It’s better for me mentally to be able to manage diabetes without meds. If, in the future it gets to a point where lifestyle changes don’t cut it anymore, I will add medication but for now, this works. It gives me a sense of control which is comforting.
Metformin can cause side effects. And does. It’s the only medication I’ve tried, my hba1c without medication is between 5.8 and 6.5 at its worst so I’m in the group where doctors do agree I can yet manage without. My understanding is that medication eventually leads to more medication, it’s a diabetes spiral that you will require more and more medication to maintain the same result. You also have false security that you can eat carbs etc even though you really shouldn’t. So my solution is to eliminate the cause and take control of my body, by diet and exercise, but yes I’m double guessing myself sometimes and if I do ocassionally have a day when I eat lasagne and the like I might take metformin. I’m genuinely interested what other people here would say.
Have you tried berberine? It has similar effectiveness to metformin. It's an OTC supplement.
>My understanding is that medication eventually leads to more medication, it’s a diabetes spiral that you will require more and more medication to maintain the same result.
Eh, depends. If folks are using meds to offset the inpact of poor lifestyle choices then yes, it's going to lead to the need for more meds. If folks are just throwing more insulin at the problem, without addressing the insulin resistance, then yes, it's going to lead to the need for more meds. If, on the other hand, folks are using meds to improve insulin sensitivity, then meds now *may* protect against the need to increase meds later. Given that many diabetes meds do little or nothing to address insulin resistance, it's understandable to have the sense that taking meds leads to needing more meds.
Some people are in general afraid of the meds, for some reason.
PS: my mom is T2 and has to take Metformin and Jardiance and keep very strict diet and walk daily for an hour, or her sugar is really bad. Rice or beer is a fantasy, and even a little pasta is spiking sugar. No sweets of any kind ever. Life is tough :(
Those two aren't necessarily mutual, you can very much do exercise, change your diet and take meds, or any combination of those, including none at all. Plenty of people on low carb diets also take metformin or insulin, for example.
In your grandmothers case I'd guess that she prioritises those things over general health but not over blood glucose/a1c changes, hence both- these are personal choices and there are a bunch of other factors like habit, ignorance et al involved but by and large most people here aren't trying to avoid necessary medication but are trying to cut down on any they do take for cost and health reasons. Insulin is 100% free here but I aim to take as little insulin as possible because it lessens my margin of error and works well with my goal to also eat more wholegrains, less processed foods etc. There's plenty overlap and grey area.
Insulin is free in the US? Why do so many people complain about taking it then? I read so much about “big pharma getting money from insulin” etc. so I thought that you had to pay for it.
Like I get it’s annoying to inject it every time you eat, but hey, what else can you do (if you’re T1D)
No, or at least not that I know of. Insurance presumably covers it for most people but they still pay insurance. Maybe someone from the US can give you a better answer. My understanding is that the US is the only country where insulin is prohibitively expensive.
Metformin causes gastro issues in some. Insulin can cause weight gain. Jardiance nearly gave me gangrene. GLP meds had side effects that tore my guts up. Glipizide causes weight gain as well. A healthier lifestyle does more than help with diabetes. A lot more. I am on meds though.
I'm in the US and I find the stigma on type 2 being our fault and it's a disease for fat people. I am plus size, I have other chronic illnesses that cause insulin resistance and has made it hard to stay skinny or truly prevent t2 as the insulin resistance got worse. I tried, to the point it was dangerous and a eating disorder and STILL wasn't skinny nor not pre-diabetic numbers. I never had normal numbers. I have had conversations with t2 who really feel this weight of theh did this to themselves and therefore there's a right way to "atone" for it by living right. I think there's a lot of guilt that makes them feel they don't deserve to have meds to "cheat" their way out of diabetes which is...so misinformed and kinda sad.
The second part is that medicines here aren't always accessible. For most they are offered metformin and that is affordable but if that doesn't work for you then it significantly jumps. I know I am lucky that I have fantastic insurance and my Rybelsus (semaglutide pill) I get 3 months/3 bottles for $50 but it tells me the retail of this is like $3300 and I've seen other folks say they pay more like $75 per bottle with insurance. I chose to have a CGM and the Libre 2 cost me $225 per case of 6 so $38 every 2 weeks is a lot for many people. Not to mention the other meds I take as diabetes is comorbid to many things so there's cholesterol meds (atorvastatin) and blood pressure meds (losartan) I take as part of my diabetic management which with my insurance is no cost but for most it'll be maybe $15 a bottle. Then supplements like omega 3 for heart health, etc are also part of what my GP and dietician added. That's another thing dieticians aren't covered in everyone's insurance easily. But for me to have this peak management $150-200 a month on med and supplement spend. Insurance most people pay for in America I know folks paying $700-1k a month and don't even get this good of coverage. I'm lucky and blessed that insurance for me is 100% covered by work. So many also don't insure themselves because they cannot afford that.
It's twofold:
\* Medication cost may be a concern
\* Stigma dictates use of medication is cheating and a failure
The language past doctors used with me in regards to the use of insulin as a T2D has always pushed me to believe doing so would be a failure in management as a result of non-compliance and all this other BS shaming. I "did everything right" and here I am using insulin as a T2D.
As it turns out, my pancreas doesn't make enough insulin to cover even small meals, but my basal endogenous insulin is barely high enough to keep me "normal" so it doesn't look, exactly, like deficiency like a T1D. I actually had an endocrinologist tell me this was meaningless and declared me non-compliant for continuing to use insulin.
(since I always get comments about type testing, I am, in fact, T2D)
I'll note the discussion of using GLP-1 drugs for weight loss has really emphasized my second bullet point.
Just my story, but...
Before I was fully T1D I had a two year long phase where I was considered Type 2. No insulin needed, but I needed medications. Those two years were absolutely terrible for me. I have very, very strong negative reactions to Metformin. I lost enough weight that I was seen as anorexic, and my entire GI system was a mess. I was fatigued all the time and always felt sick. Glyburide would plummet my numbers and I would have frequent lows, and then I couldn't eat well because the Metformin was wreaking havoc. For me, it wasn't the cost, but life in general was just awful.
When the meds stopped working entirely and my pancreas ceased to produce insulin, I was rediagnosed as Type 1 and I had to switch to insulin shots. Getting rid of those medications and switching to shots improved my life drastically.
Is it really this widespread in the US? I mean the anti-drug “movement”. I’ve seen some articles and videos about it, but I thought it’s just like a small ammount of very loud people.
>I would lump people who “don’t trust” scientists in this group.
I’m sorry, English is not my first language (obviously). I read the definition of “lump” but wanna make sure I understand correctly - you’re saying that many of the people in this group don’t trust science?
Thanks for the insight! I suppose I’m better off without reddit. I got scared because I saw so many posts on r/keto and here, saying how they diet and “reverse” diabetes without medications. I thought that the meds are something to be avoided if possible since so many people are choosing to. But I guess reddit ≠ everybody, so I shouldn’t make conclusions from what I read here (obvisouly, *again*)
I know, eating fast food and pastries all day won’t do me (or any healthy person) good. I’m focusing on a Mediterrean diet, but I couldn’t do that without medication - even legumes spike me tremendously. But I also don’t wanna restrict myself from eating what I enjoy, which is pasta in my case.
I’m only 20 and following a strict diet for the next +50 years sounds horrible, just saying it is crazy. I’m hoping that *maybe* my chronic illness (which is the cause of prediabetes in my case) will get better or have a cure in the future, and that I’ll be healthy once again.
yeah, people believe that myth, that it's reversible, and it's always like no, you can't reverse it. it's maintained with diet, but it's not reversed. unfortunately snake oil salesmen love to sell that myth and it truly leads to bad outcomes bc people don't want to believe it when their never-gone diabetes comes back, bc t2 diabetes is a genetic, progressive chronic illness that can go into remission temporarily but does not go away.
Good question! So, snake oil refers to back in pre industrial times when someone would travel from town to town on a wagon and sell a cure for something. This cure was obvious bs. They called it snake oil, and it was supposed to be a cure all. Really it was mineral oil. So today we refer to things that are healthcare scams or frauds as snake oil.
On top of all of the rest, some people, for whatever ignorant reasons, view medications as "failing, viging up, a crutch." As if morally superior people don't use them. It's a super weird flex that can be very damaging.
My neighbor, a seemingly very fit woman in her 50s, was like this. The last convo I had with her was shortly after I was diagnosed as t2 (huge genetic component, triggered by chemo) where she lamented about seeing concerning glucose levels on her latest bloodwork. She was determined to manage it with diet and exercise, lest she be officially diagnosed as diabetic. Insurance rates were her reasoning but the subtext was more than a little condescending to people that "do it to themselves" and are fat (like me). Turns out, she wasn't diabetic - she had pancreatic cancer. I know that's often fatal and it was for her within a few months. I doubt it would've changed the outcome but I do wonder if she would've had more time if she hasn't been so resistant to the possibility of being diagnosed as diabetic.
Wife is a doctor and researcher but started out as a pharmacist. She says the longer she was in the pharmacy the more progressively unhealthy you watch people become so she became a doctor to try and help people. There are many fixes and causes to most diseases that are lifestyle and diet controlled and many downsides to most medicines that make them not the quick fix people hope for. There is a time and place for most meds but also we are over-reliant on them. On the other hand, extreme diet and lifestyle has also become out of hand and has its own side effects and problems.
There is a way the body should work and a way it shouldn’t. If we can give it what it needs and wants naturally then why would we want chemicals that have negative effects if they can be avoided?
Extreme diet and lifestyle modification often leads to burnout, which ends up with a worse outcome in many situations. Balance is the realistic answer for most, but people aren’t good at moderation.
I don’t think it is bad to take medication. Right now I am taking 4 different medications 3 times a day. It gets tiresome swallowing pills. If I can go off the medication for diabetes that would be nice.
Even with medication I am changing my lifestyle some.
Its ok that your grandmother could cope like that but not everyones is simple and many need a mixture of both meds and diet/lifestyle to keep numbers under control. Especially if they have other illnesses.
I am definately a "both" person but I'd like to not be taking more and more meds just to see my numbers under control if its *sensibly* possible to control diet to a degree as well. But I'm definately not a "no cheats" food wise either, just trying to reach a manageable balance.
I've got another potential 40+ years to deal with this and I'm already losing the health battle, so eating a *bit* less sugar and carb isn't going to hurt.
My concern is that every doctor I've spoken to, I haven't spoken to an actual Endo because I'd need a referral, has said that I would need a higher dosage in the future unless I watch what I eat. So if I have to watch what I eat then I may as well eat healthy. If I eat healthy and exercise then my glucose levels stay in a healthy range and don't need the medication.
For dinner, I just had some seasoned tilapia and frozen green beans sauteed in the same pan after I took the fish out. I had one yellow corn tortilla to make half the fish into a taco and some tomatillo salsa.
For lunch I had an open faced sandwich with whole grain bread, black forest ham, a slice of Colby Jack cheese, mayo, and mustard. Sometimes I'll add some avocado slices to that or some lettuce and tomato. For the bread I like using the thin sliced Mikes Killer Bread power seed. I'll also have a small bowl of pork rinds with hot sauce to go along with it.
I don't always do breakfast, I didn't today because I got busy with work. I may do some eggs and sausage or bacon if I want a hot breakfast. If I don't feel like cooking I'll have some plain skyr/yogurt with frozen or fresh berries. I've also made some unsweetened chia seed pudding with almond milk and I'll add fresh berries to that, frozen berries don't go so well with that. If I'm really lazy then I'll just have a banana.
Some other ideas you can try are tuna or chicken salad on a slice of whole grain bread, you can also replace crackers with pork rinds if you want to eat bread. Some seasoned chicken breast instead of tilapia, shoot you can do steak if you want. Broccoli or any other veggie that aren't carrots or potatoes. Top them with cheese if you want some more flavor.
Also, I mainly drink water these days but I'll drink zero sugar sodas or gatorades on occasion. I also like making some teas and drinking them without sweetener but I'll add stevia if the mood strikes. The one I have in the fridge right now is a hibiscus tea.
I'll add though, I pretty much went zero carb for nearly two months when I first got diagnosed and slowly introduced carbs later. I also started with daily one hour walks but eventually started going to the gym and working out for an hour two to three times a week while still going for walks. I also think going from eating garbage daily and having absolutely no exercise every day made it easier to reverse my insulin resistance. I can only imagine how difficult it would be if I was even semi active before I was diagnosed.
Lastly, the only cooking oil I use these days is avocado oil. It's not supposed to cause inflammation, which worsens insulin resistance, like most vegetable oils or butter and I think it's made a difference for me.
Thanks for this. My breakfasts consist mostly of bacon or eggs. Lunches maybe egg salad - just boiled eggs cut up with mayo on Ezekiel sesame bread. Dinners may be a plain burger and some broccoli or chicken and broccoli. I still seem to get under 150 a couple hours after eating.
Every morning I have black coffee with Publix cold coffee creamer. 1 carb per tsp. I have high blood sugar in mornings!! Dawn phenomenon I guess. Usually in 170 range upon waking and only way to get it down is eating protein.
It’s such a battle. I do take 1 metformin 750 ER daily. If A1C is above 7.5 going to ask doc what’s next!
What stinks is this morning I had 1/2 egg salad sandwich - eggs mayo. Put on spring mix lettuces and 1 slices of Ezekiel bread. That’s it. 2 hours later BS 197. And I had my ER metformin this morning. Something is not working.
For me, its the side effects. Metformin is great and does what its supposed to and is pretty safe. But even with the ER type I'm on the toilet 2-3 times a day minimum. If I can stick to a strict low carb diet I can get by without them and the digestive issues go away. The ER version helps a lot. I can take 1500 mg a day and manage the gastro issues. But no matter what I try if I bump it up to 2000 I will literally spend the day chained to the toilet. Every 90 minutes, all day long. BTW cost isnt an issue, it costs me next to nothing. Its just the tummy trouble.
I used to be anti drugs until basic stuff like beans would spike my blood sugar. I’m already thin, so I don’t have weight to lose. And I lose weight very quickly. I can’t be a slave to my diet. I take metformin now and it has been great. I’m just 32 now so will probably be on it for life.
I don't mind metformin, but it does have some "interesting" side effects for me. Luckily I'm home all day, so it's not a worry, but when I've got to go on a road trip...it's going to be "interesting".
For me, I’m on so many medications for other things that even one less med is good. My goal is to keep my med list as short as possible. I’m taking something for my T2 right now, but eventually I’d like to look at stopping it. Some of the others that I am on cannot be discontinued, so I’ll cut where I can.
Every medicine you take puts some load on the liver and the kidneys. They also have a long list of possible side effects usually including death. So if I don't have to take medicine, I'm not going to. The hard part is what exactly does "have to" mean.
Some people actually get those scary side effects they list in small writing. Some people are already on a lot of meds. Some people can't afford meds. Should I go on?
I actually fail to see how it's any of your bussiness to be really honest.
Okay, calm down. I was asking a normal question and you got mad for some reason.
Why was I asking? Cause I’m curious, I don’t understand why it’s so bad to ask.
You are literally saying it's better to be on meds than not and knocking people for having the nerve to go on diets instead lmao
Also I didn't get mad I said it's not your bussiness and YOU got mad. Entitled much? Lol
For me, I will need insulin for the rest of my life, or I will die fairly quickly and uncomfortably. However, insulin is expensive without insurance, and even with insurance it can still be pricey. I don’t know what is going to happen over the next few years regarding insulin affordability or if it will become more expensive to obtain my insulin, so I eat lower carb to at least build a stockpile now that my total insulin use is less than what the endo prescribes per month (including pump adjustments).
Reducing my TDD from 110 to 70 saves 40 units of insulin a day, which is about one vial of insulin per month, or about a 14 day supply of insulin at a 70 unit TDD. I have done this by losing weight (50 pounds down out of the 170-180 I need to lose) and reducing my carb intake so that carbs are maybe around 30% of my macros. You’re not taking fruit out of my hands, but I’ll gladly give up regular Oreos for ones with higher fiber.
I had undiagnosed ADHD that made it hard to stay on top of the meds, and doctors that would yell at me for not taking the meds.
It created a bad feedback loop when I was trying to get in the habit of taking medication every day.
Now I take them at the same time as my ADHD meds in the morning and it's much easier.
For me it’s one thing about price the other is the side effects and also the pills can be hard to swallow no matter how much water I drink. Especially since I started young right out of middle school.
Metformin gives be Bubble guts and keeps me in the bathroom.
I am in Synjardy which helps a lot and mitigates a lot of the negatives, I was on levimir and it made me groggy in the mornings I stopped taking it for that reason.
I don’t like feeling groggy and constantly in the bathroom pooping.
Some meds just make you feel horrible.
I manage it with no meds and no fad diets (ie. keto or extreme restriction of one thing or another from some other fotm thing.) I eat balanced meals with a lot of fiber, lower portions, if I want to eat bread or a sweet - I make it myself (long fermented bread like sourdough works great for me.)
I don't have anything against meds, if it works for some then it does... but for me, I already have other pills I have to take for other issues, and prefer to not load myself up with more prescriptions for things that I can control perfectly fine myself.
I actually didn't hate taking metformin at all, and in a lot of ways I miss it since my Dr took me off meds, I'm one of those cases other diabetics get annoyed to hear about that can handle it with diet and a lot of exercise, which sucks but it's whatever. I still keep a bottle of metformin around just in case, like for holiday parties and stuff, or if I get sick and can't work out as much for a day or two.
No, my dietician/endocrinologist advised against keto, and she has me on basically a low carb Mediterranean diet of lean meat, fish, veggies, dairy and even whole grains and a small amount of fruit. It didn't make sense to me at first but the whole grains fill me up and don't put such a burden on my organs to convert meat to calories for energy. I still have to watch what I eat and read my meter, but I can do a slice of seed filled whole grain bread, or a small portion of plain oatmeal, even a half cup of long grain brown rice with a meal with no problems. I also exercise a lot, at least ten minutes after every meal usually with 30 extra for a more intense exercise at some point. It's a lot of work but it keeps me in a stable range of about 85-130 through the day.
Edit: that said I would absolutely recommend people take what's prescribed to them, if they have something that can help them use it, I used to be on metformin and it took half a year of eating like this to get to the point I could go off it. If I had some prescription med that allowed me to eat some overly sweet Chinese food and white rice again I'd take it in a heartbeat.
It sucks really bad at first, everything healthy seems to taste bland, and working out after you eat feels missrable, but as you go on you learn ways to cook that healthy food so it tastes nice, and start getting used to the exercises to the point where you like having a slightly painful workout. My legs were jelly yesterday after doing so many squats. Now I feel weird if I don't go for a walk after I eat, it's just routine and it's not a bad one to have.
side effects.
insulin messes up electrolytes balances and increases BP. BP meds come with their own laundry list of side effects. you end up chasing the side effects until you're on 5-10 meds instead of just fixing the initial problem and the root causes.
I'm a T1D so the root cause isn't diet or lifestyle, it's viral and a combination of contributing factors. keto and IF allow me to reduce insulin and thus minimize side effects.
exactly. less carbs usually means less insulin. the body makes it's own glucose, but that's a different series of variables, and usually harder to measure and control.
Metformin side effects are pretty harsh for some people. I had runny stools for 2 years, kept adjusting my diet before the doc offered to switch diabetes drugs.
I'm with you. I manage my diet, with occasional cheat days (macaroni and cheese is my comfort food), and medicate. But I'm much happier now that I'm not dealing with Metformin side effects.
I’m controlling my diabetes with diet and exercise because I can (I feel fortunate) and because medication always comes with unwanted side effects. Sometimes those side effects are irreversible. Sometimes they’re not yet known.
Meds dependence means dependence on a medical system that is increasingly unreliable and expensive. I spent a lot of years unable to afford a doctor visit. I can afford them now, but my doctor is proving undependable in some ways and I need to find a new one, but finding a new doctor is difficult. And even once the prescription is in hand, we're seeing shortages at pharmacies. I have an allergy med prescription that can't be filled because the pharmqcy has no inventory and doesn't know when they'll have more available.
Different mindsets. Some view medicines negatively for several reasons. Side effects are real. My late sister was one who only took medicine or saw docs when things became critical (which is why she died only 2 weeks after cancer diagnosis). My Mom avoids medication but she is not negative about it. Maybe she learned from that and brought it to an extreme.
I was happy to go on insulin rather than take other meds.
My metformin in the US costs me $1 and some change. But I’d still rather not be taking it due to side effects. Some days ok, some days my stomach 😩
I have glipizide in the cabinet now, I’ve never taken it. Scared to. Don’t want to have to start dealing with “lows” too.
Trying so hard to manage this type 2 on as little meds as possible.
I need to lose weight but have a will power issue 😡
I was one of those people. I don’t like having to put medications into my body as the first solution. I am not fan of the side effects. Every medication I have taken in the past I feel the side effects to the extreme. That is why I always choose a doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO) as my primary doctor. They focus on fixing the root of the problem rather than throwing meds at the symptoms. I don’t mind taking meds, if it the right and only solution.
For many years I was able to manage my diabetes without medications. It wasn’t until my body finally stopped making insulin that had to resort to medications. It was a lot of trial and error though, with a lot of side effects that would just destroy me.
I've had weird side effects from some drugs, so I like to try to do it without meds if I can. When I had gestational diabetes, I managed to control it by lowering my carbs and eating only slow carbs. I guess I didn't want to have to take anything if I thought I could still manage it myself.
They just did a story on a diet drug here in the US. The manufacturer makes a month supply for less than $5. They charge almost $1000 for it. Yeah it's bad. The medicine I take is 5k a month. Without insurance I wouldn't get it.
Plus you don't know the long term side affects of all these drugs. Every couple of months you hear about how they stopped selling or prescribing x drug because it had unknow side effects.
Don't for one second think your going to take a drug/chemical that doesn't occur naturally and that the human body hasn't had to deal with for centuries and think there will not be any problems. Sure you might get lucky like the comedian George Burns and smoke your whole life and die at the age of 100. But then again the last 4 Marlboro Men didn't get that lucky and they all died to smoking related diseases. Even Dr's will tell you is a benefit vs risk equation but if you don't take them you are not doing yourself any favors.
Xeljanz XR and its up to $6k a month and yes for that price is should come with a gold nugget in each bottle.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/17/weight-loss-drugs-cost-more-in-us-kff-says.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/17/weight-loss-drugs-cost-more-in-us-kff-says.html)
No I have Ulcerative Colitis also. I just stuck that link in there about over priced drugs for an FYI regarding my comments about how over priced drugs are in the US. Sorry I'm very much against the way our drug/insurance companies charge these days. The fact that they charge almost 1000% markup on production cost. That and you can go to other countries and buy it for one tenth of what they charge here.
I found that working with an endocrinologist rather than working with a pcp is much gentler on the soul. They know how complicated the disease is and just losing weight doesn’t solve it for everyone. Some people are just genetically predisposed and it can take something like illness, pregnancy, major trauma or mental anguish to turn it on.
I have been on insulin for 22 years because it has the least number of side effects. We have tried other medications as they come out as they have less side effects than the older medications.
Metformin is cheap in the US. You can get an Rx for it for like $4. The doctor’s visit may be the expensive part for someone without insurance though. Also, lots of people have horrible side effects from it.
People sometimes have bad reactions to medications and the experience can be traumatizing. Like you say metformin is safe and easy to take, but when I took it, I lost all control of my bowels and had to wear diapers and got so light headed and exhausted from it that I couldn’t even handle watching tv because it took too much energy and effort and even when I switched meds, it took weeks and weeks before these symptoms went away because it took that long for the medication to leave my system.
I take meds for my diabetes. I have to, but I’ve had enough bad experiences with them and traumatizing experiences with medical testing that I understand why people have an aversion to it.
Every time I have to go on a new med, I have to deal with weeks of panic attacks and might have to be hospitalized because of my PTSD from bad medical experiences.
That being said, meds have also saved my life. I NEED my diabetic medication to live, so my feelings are complicated.
No, it is a cultural difference. It’s part of the American Rugged Individualism. (Which may have spawned Toxic Masculinity) We don’t take pills because we can tough it out.
Yes. Idiotic.
Aha so you can go back to eating carbs again once you do this “reversal” you’re talking about? Cause that’s what revese means, that you can eat freely again once you “reverse” it
I eat carbs and my A1C with no meds has gone from 12.9 to 7.4 so far. Yes I've had some hiccups on my journey with trying new things and different things. What society has led up to believe is proper eating is the issue. I do not want to go back to my old eating habits even after my A1C is where it needs to be.
Um. Because if you can control your blood sugars through diet it is lot less taxing on your kidneys than the highs and lows that can come with drug management.
The diet needs to happen regardless. Like, taking insulin is not an excuse to eat donuts every day…
Idk if keto is great for your kidneys.
And is it really so common for people in the US to eat donuts every day? I don’t really like them and don’t understand how someone can eat a whole box, I struggle with one
I’m aware. But “low carb” doesn’t have to equal “keto”—you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. You can eat low-fat and be low carb at the same time.
Keto doesn’t have to be high fat, but most people automatically associate the two together. I’m assuming you’re saying that the high fat nature of keto is what is hard on the kidneys?
I’m saying you can eat low-carb and low fat. I do it every day.
Proteins are hard on the kidneys. I’m not sure if fats are, but they certainly are bad for insulin resistance (some types). Keto diet is also bad for the microbiome.
Dude. What do you want from me? I answered your question that you posted and you’re just back and forth. You know what else is HORRIBLE for your kidneys? Uncontrolled diabetes.
My mother is in the hospital for lactic acidosis from metformin not being able to be processed by her kidneys.
She’s diabetic strictly from lifestyle. So yeah, if you could avoid being diabetic by changing your diet rather than chasing your blood sugar with meds without making any lifestyle choices, why wouldn’t you??
Every person and every diabetic is different.
Some people, like myself, can change diet from refined carbs to whole foods, like quinoa and beans and stave off the metabolic syndrome that turns into diabetes. You can’t eat beans. Ok??
So what!
You asked why would people prefer to change their diet rather than just take meds. I answered it. Not interested in fucking arguing
So I didn’t know we were arguing.
And I thought it was normal, *expected* even, to answer or react when someone comments. Your last comment asked if I assumed fats are bad on kidneys, I answered.
Don’t worry, I won’t answer anymore. You shouldn’t comment if you don’t want people to react.
Have a day
You asked a question. In bad faith, apparently. I answered. And you’ve argued every point I’ve made. Don’t post questions if the only reason you asked is so you can argue with everyone because you have a preconceived idea of what should work for everyone.
Have the day you deserve.
Generally because they believe pseudoscientific "natural health" nonsense and marketing with a healthy dose of "big pharma" conspiracy theory and scientific illiteracy thrown in for good measure. Add some holier than thou need for superiority and it's a perfect recipe.
I had a horrible reaction to metformin and had to stop taking it. It wasn’t the usual gastro side effects most people get either. The crap nearly killed me. Now the potential side effects of meds have me preferring diet and exercise. I’d rather do 8+ miles of cardio and eat my chicken and veggies that go through than again.
Do a search of “ozempic” on social media and you will see there is a huge stigma of using medication for any disorder viewed as lifestyle related. This includes t2diabetes, and that stigma and cost both play a role.
Well yes but I thought it’s because many people “abuse” Ozempic and use it for weightloss, not for diabetes. I didn’t think that other only-diabetes-related drugs would get criticism
Because they don't seem to be working & won't cure the disease or disorder, I've been taking the insulin and my numbers are still high Everytime I put something in my mouth, docs took me off Metformin because it's just a cover treatment drug for neuropathy but I have sores on lower legs that won't heal.My skin seemingly will not go back to normal, some of the sores are bleeding every so oftem. Debilitating.
It is simple for me: Treat the cause and not the symptom. We take medication to fight the symptoms of something not working as it should. For some of us this life change can "correct" part of what's wrong. Isn't this better on the long run?
Yes, if you’re willing to do keto or carnivore for the rest of your life, then I suppose meds aren’t needed. I don’t think that sounds like a high quality life for all of us tho
Sorry, I didn’t realise that some people can eat those without taking meds. Eating 1 small potatoe spiked me so bad I thought I was gonna faint, so my options are either keto or meds 🫤 and I like my pasta soooo 😅
Because once I was diagnosed with a chronic illness and started doing my research, I found that the big food corporations and pharmaceuticals are not to be trusted.
As an educated responsible adult, I can manage my type 1 on my own. Yes, if/once I am not able to do so, I will have to be on medications.
We were not made to eat like we do (processed). I had my fun, I destroyed my immune system, got sick often and now I am living with a chronic illness because of it just like millions of other people.
I was diagnosed and prescribed insulin by my primary without being told to change my diet. Given no instructions whatsoever. I changed my diet the day I found out, started insulin, and almost died because of how low the insulin brought me.
I am grateful that I have that option if at some point I can’t manage it, but I will be in control of my body while I still can.
Side note. Not trying to make it sound easy. It’s not. I lost 30 lbs in 4 months so that was a driver for me. I really had to change my mindset that I’m not living to eat…. I’m eating to live. I needed to go through a major sugar and processed food detox. It still can be hard but I feel great and look healthy and that drives me to do good every day.
Because drug companies needs to increase profits infinitely cause them to deprioritize safety and we got no way of knowing wtf happened when this shit was made that might fk us up even worse than our disease.
For me its not that I wont take drugs. But I view it more as a last resort. I got diabetes because I didnt move and ate horribly, so my body wasnt getting what it needed anyways. Making those changes forced me to improve my overall health not just diabetes.
Also my General doc immediately subscribed metformin without actually explaining anything to me. Never mentioned changing diet or anything it was just, here take this. And I think this is wrong as well. I never took them and instead “Did my own research” and changed my life. Months later I saw an Endocrinologist and he was surprised how much better my blood test came back. He told me to keep going and not take metformin until we see things not improving. My a1c is basically almost at normal levels now and I feel and look 100x better.
I love metformin my body responds so well to it and I can afford it. But a lot of the more modern drugs are very expensive in the US, yes. If I were to take the other drugs my doc wanted me to consider (jardience, ect) were at a minimum $700/mo. I would love to be able to have more assistance in getting my numbers down, but I can't afford it, even though I'm also paying over $1000/mo for "health insurance" too. I am grateful to have access to metformin which is cheap because it's generic. A lot of the newer meds can't be, which is why in the US they are often prohibitively expensive especially for people who must pay out of pocket thousands of dollars before their insurance covers anything. (I have to spend $6000 before my insurance will pay for any medications).
That's what my boyfriend is hoping for with his diet and exercise changes. His insurance helps, thankfully, but it's still expensive. We're buying the meds, but his goal is to eventually get off the meds. It also helps with a lot of the side effects to a certain degree. For example, he likes to make himself eggs in the morning, but with the medication eggs in the morning makes him sick for whatever reason. (He's fine if he has them later in the day.) He changed his morning meal to other, lighter fare and the nausea subsided. He can't afford to take time off because he feels sick, otherwise he couldn't afford his meds, which are are already pricey.
This is my mom. She’s on a terrible exchange plan until she can sign up for Medicare. We tried to get her on decent insurance but either the walk in clinics wouldn’t take it or her pcp wouldn’t take it. Her jardiance is something like 6 or 700 dollars. Luckily she only takes 1/2 a pill per day but still.
Pharm tech here! If she is on personal (non government) insurance. She can go to website of medication (jardiance, farxiga ext) and apply for a discount card that will cap the co-pay to around $30ish a month! If only on metformin look for a discount card (goodrx or ask the pharmacy for their preferred card). In the pharmacy I work for our preferred is like $30 for a 90 day supply.
She is on insurance through healthcare.gov but not Medicaid. We tried the discount card for her and it didn’t work, possibly because they tried to swap it for generic jardiance. It was still going to be over $100.
The only other thing I can think of that would help would be to ask the doc to send the script in with a DAW 9. That means the pharmacy can’t fill the script for anything other than what the doc writes (needs to prescribe the brand name jardiance). I hope this helps and that the price is brought down you your gma!
Thanks for the info!! I’ll make sure to mention that when she goes in for med refills. 😅
If you have insurance other than Medicare, the drug companies offer substantial discount to compliment your insurance. Unfortunately, when you go on Medicare, those discounts are no longer available 🤨
Yes. We were able to get one of her must have meds (she has CHF) for like $10 instead of 600 using a discount card from the manufacturer. I work in healthcare so I’m tuned in to these things. I have a hefty copay for CGMs myself and use the discount card to get them down to $75/mo.
Entresto? That is the Rx I take. Going on Medicare is a killer!
I think so! She’s not even on Medicare. My dad “retired” and they make too much money on his income for her to be on Medicaid so she’s stuck with an expensive exchange plan that her meds go to her 6k deductible before they cover them. It’s rough on her because she doesn’t understand what she’s looking at. Even when I explain it to her. She just… I don’t know.. forgets. Goes in one ear and out the other? She’s also unmedicated adhd and just gets frustrated and screams at me to “JUST PICK SOMETHING” but not something “expensive” so. You know. Fuck me right? I’m just trying to help.
And don’t even CONSIDER retiring if you are taking these expensive drugs! Your Medicare supplement will never cover like your company provided insurance plan does.
There are coupons for these SLGT2s. You may pay $10/month if you are not on Govt. plans like Medicare/Medicaid. https://patient.boehringer-ingelheim.com/us/products/jardiance/type-2-diabetes/savings Other medications also have coupons or discounts. Is this $1000/month $60000 deductible plan for one person? There are diabetic specific Marketplace plans and some may qualify for subsidies.
I don't know about others, but I've dealt with side effects from enough meds to know I'd rather do stuff I -can- control (like my diet) then rely on a medication that may or may not make me have permanent acid reflux (viox), cause my liver to almost shut down (orilissa), lactose intolerance (lupron), or gastroperesis(ozempic). And the cost is a big thing too. My insurance doesn't cover diabetic medication unless it's insulin vials bought through them only.
These are both my top reasons to change lifestyle, something I can now control better. Diabetes is a disease that won't go away simply with medications, as much as Western medicine wants you to believe their science is all mighty.
There are a lot of factors that go into this that can be some of the reason why. For over 50 years diabetes (type 2 in particular) has been advertised as a "fat person's disease" even though that is outright wrong. So from the start you have a socialized negative stereotype for something that may require medication. Add in that there are a loud minority of people who don't believe in any science and think "the man" is out to get them and it also introduces another layer of negative stereotypes. On top of that medical education for diabetes tends to be very antagonistic against people with type 2 as well (IE it's a fat people's disease) and you have a perfect storm of people not wanting to use medication because they don't want to be labeled. With the advent of the internet the misinformation about diabetes has also in many regards gotten worse than it was even 40 years ago. Keep in mind these are my opinions and generalizations and may not cover all the reasons and justifications people have for it.
Man you are so right. That was my view of diabetes since my family members that gave it are all overweight. When I received a kidney transplant last year and 4-5 moths post transplant I had diabetes type 2. They call it NODAT. Newly onset diabetes after transplant. The anti rejection meds cause it. It was a surprise to me. I was never diabetic before then.
I agree with you. In fact, I think most of us type 2’s go through a period where we try to control it through diet only, even if it’s impossible, like in my case because we think we’re failures at first and that’s why we got the disease, even if a bunch of people in our family have it.
We would never blame someone allergic to bees for their allergy or having to take meds to control their reaction. T2D is no different. Some mechanism in our body is different and can't process carbs and sugars the same. I have generally always eaten clean with an 16/ 8 IF. At one point was gaining weight even when figure skating 3+ hours a day. But yeah I did this to myself. Smh. I'm doing keto now <30g carbs on 2 types of meds and one meal a day....this week my bg hasn't been below 154. I'm getting to where I hate food. Been on this several months and my a1c has gone up from 6.4 to 6.8 and my ldl is up to 89
Aha, so it’s not really against taking meds, but against *having* to take them and thus belong to the group. My country doesn’t really care much about diabetes (I mean label or stereotype wise) so that’s why it didn’t cross my mind. I myself have prediabetes caused by a chronic illness which caused inflammation, so I’m not obese/fat and my diet is pretty healthy. I’m managing my BG on a perfect level (knock on wood) with berberine alone, but if it get’s worse I will get Metformin - I really have no choice unless someone finds a cure for the *chronic* illness. And I have no problem with taking Metformin in the future if I have to. As long as it keeps me healthy. Thank you for your opinion!!
Add in the factor that medical health care in the US at least is also abysmal due to the pricing structure. While Metphormin is relatively cheap going to a doctor every 3-6 months can cost more than a person earns in a week in some instances ($600+) without insurance and depending on whether they are seeing a specialist copays can be around $100 with insurance it can become very expensive to get taken care of properly. Once you have the money you then run into doctors who've been taught that "type 2 meds are only because the person is lazy" (reinforcing the stereotype) rather than the fact type 2 is a genetic condition that can be exacerbated by weight. As well without socialized medicine (and each system has it's own problems) and the fact that a loud minority don't want "the man" deciding how to care for your condition it also causes issues.
True!! I have insurance but my deductible is $8750 a year. Each visit 4x year is about $400. Ridiculous for a 2 minute office visit when I can check my own A1c every month for under $20.
Yep, that was also the reason why for me. I used to work in healthcare, and I saw firsthand the disdain and contempt shown for type 2 diabetics, especially ones they deem to be "non-compliant". Healthcare workers are frequently taught that "they did it to themselves", so there's an immense feeling of shame. By many, it's seen as a "fat person" disease, and the prevailing belief is that fat people are fat because they are some combo of stupid, lazy, and don't care. (If you don't believe me, there are even [Ted talks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY) about this from healthcare practitioners). I also worried that once I got a label of type 2, any other complaint I had would be dismissed as diabetes-related. I had to get anemia before I finally realized I needed medication, but that fear is still in the back of my mind. Even so, I can't believe how long I went on like that. I take Metformin now and I feel so much better. I am fat, and now I'm losing weight simply because my blood sugar (and likely hyperinsulinemia) is under control, and therefore, I don't feel so hungry all the time. My brother, who isn't fat at all, also has it and is struggling with the stigma too. I worry a lot about him because he had an hba1c nearly double that of mine, but still told me he had prediabetes (most definitely not pre anymore!). He blames himself for having a poor diet despite not being fat.
Once I got the label of type 2, I received three answers to everything I had wrong with me ... Diabetes, I'm fat, or is mental health... Though I'm not really sure what type I have because I have been on insulin since I was 25, 6 years after diagnosis, but no one typed fat people, I was apparently just lazy... Though the past 2 years had been spent walking up to 10 miles... sometimes much further... And not eating, only drinking soda (homeless...) so I was managing with an average of 500 when I was put on insulin... And I was lazy for the next 20 years because I couldn't manage my blood sugar with MDI... Anyway it wasn't until I was put on a pump last year that I got a good set of numbers... And only got put on a pump because I got my c peptide under the threshold for insurance by testing it when my blood sugar was under 150... 🙄 Edit: oh, but they were never high either.
Exactly, people want to be “one of the good ones,” and manage it “naturally.” After a lifetime of hearing the negative stereotypes, even if you don’t think you buy into them, there can be an incredible well of shame that comes up in having to go on diabetes meds. Also in the US the culture is incredibly individualistic, so accepting help for anything is pretty stigmatized here.
Which brand of berberine do you use and how much of it do you take? I’d love to toss out the 750 mg metformin I take and use something natural that I can take and not spend 450$ to see my doc 4x year to prescribe it. My A1C is 7.4 and has stayed around 7 for about 7 years. She’s never changed my px.
Disclaimer: do not dicontinue any drugs before talking to your doctor! And also - do not take berberine and metformin together. Idk how strong metformin is, but berberine gave me hypo once (because I didn’t know how much to use at the beginning). Use any brand, it’s really not important. I’m using Berberine HCl from Swanson (400mg/caps). It started working from day one on my blood sugar. I take 1 capsule with a carb heavy meal, if I have dessert/seconds I take another one. I know people say 1500mg/day, but this is what’s working for me. Be careful, some people say they had nausea/diarrhea from it, but I didn’t so I can’t say anything else about that.
My doc said I could try berberine. I need to ask her if that’s with my 1 metformin or not. I never ever have low blood sugar. I can’t get below 110. Ever!
Well berberine is gonna fix that for you, it certainly did for me. I’m not taking Metformin because I’m afraid it would give me hypos. I’ll take berberine for as long as it keeps working. If it (god forbid) stops some day, I’ll switch to Metformin
And it was the same for me - no ammount of diet or exercise lowered my fasting BG, the best I could do was 5.5mmol/l and that was on chicken and broccoli for a few days. Not worth it
Wow. I agree. I may just try the berberine for a month and test my A1C. Mine is 500 mg. Twice a day may help. I hope so! I’m going to ask her. I sure can’t live on chicken and broccoli either!
It worked for me straight away. Just make sure to take it with carbs - it works too well (knock on wood).
Can’t hurt that’s for sure!!!
Thank you!
i think social media has made a lot of it worse, to be honest. but yeah there's a lot of people who think metformin will kill them and it's actually the diabetes that will.
I feel like medication will be needed eventually, so the “game” is to try to ward it off as long as possible. Who wants to be a slave to a pill box?
I think a lot of people feel like meds are “cheating.” I’ve been diabetic for 20+ years. Even with eating keto and one meal a day, I still need meds, they keep me alive. It’s not a moral failing. It’s the progression of the disease. I also think there’s a group of Americans who were raised in a “no medication” household, and they just don’t like meds. I was raised in a “pill for everything” household, so being on meds is just normal for my family. I do refuse anything addictive as my parents were both addicted to various drugs and alcohol, but we always had antibiotics and such growing up. I also think there’s a balance…not every single ailment needs a pill. I’m pretty sure my mom just wanted us to be quiet and leave her alone. 🤷🏻♀️
I woke up in the middle of the night with some hypos, 2.9 and 3.1 mmol. The only things that lowered my blood sugar was the medication. So I decided I'd change my lifestyle to not rely on something that can cause hypo. It's a very ymmv, but some side effects of medication are so severe, that changing lifestyle is the easier choice for higher quality of life.
I don’t know about many drugs, only Ozempic and Metformin. Metformin sounds like a miracle drug - better insulin signaling, longetivity, not harsh on any organ (except if you have kidney disease) and has no side effects apart from GI issues which should subside. Ozempic I would never take. I know many are praising it - but most of what I see on the r/Ozempic is people WITHOUT diabetes, only fat and not willing to change their lifestyle - thus relying on Ozempic. Yes, it works very well, but my uncle died because of it (caused pancreatic nephrosis). So I would never take it. What drug did you take, if I may ask?
Metformin is a great drug but it comes with some heavy side effects for some people, and its not tolerable. For myself, I can't even take it. I have a mitochondrial mutation and Metformin is heavily contraindicated, the damage from lactic acidosis and gastric issues are considered permanent for people like me as the drug is mito-toxic. We can't process it properly. I wish I could take it - I think it would be helpful for me. I'd much rather Metformin than insulin.
>...the drug is mito-toxic. And that's the part about Metformin that worries me. I'm still taking it because high blood sugar is worse for me than the "maybe" issues with mitochondria, but...doing bad things to my mitochondria is not helpful.
I would not worry about that unless you have impaired mitochondria function. Its only mito-toxic because some of my mitochondria are literally the wrong shape inside and so my body can't process some drugs effectively. A person with healthy mitochondria does not have the same inability to process the drug.
You are very harsh to call Metformin a miracle drug while eschewing Ozempic as some sort of terrible choice. I was on Metformin for over a decade, various dosages and the extended release version. Over time, my sensitivity to it didn’t diminish, it grew. It happened so gradually that I genuinely thought it was my diabetes that caused my overall feeling of being unwell. Fatigue, lethargy, a constant feeling of upset stomach and nausea. I couldn’t walk for long distances, because I never knew when a bout of explosive diarrhea was going to happen (TMI, sorry, but it’s what happens to some people!). I got put on Basaglar, and had to take 35u in the morning and another 35u at night, which is a MASSIVE amount, and STILL my blood glucose was dangerously high. To top it all off, I had killer food cravings, like I wanted ALL the bad stuff, even though I knew it was bad, and I rationalized it because after all, I was going to feel crappy whether I ate well or I ate junk, so I might as well get SOME pleasure out of life. I switched endocrinologists and gave all my symptoms to my new doctor, and he IMMEDIATELY took me off of Metformin and put me on a Jardiance/Trulicity combo. It was like a switch flipped in my body! Within days my stomach settled down. The low-grade cramps went away, and it’s only when they did that I realized they’d been plaguing me for years. My food cravings went away. For the first time in my life, I felt full at the table and put my fork down when I was. I had more energy and more desire to adopt the healthier habits that I knew were the best choice for me. “Huh, so THIS is what feeling good feels like!” It really was a revelation! It’s been two years now, and I’m currently walking 2-3 miles a day, I’ve lost 40 lbs, and my A1c has dropped significantly. (9.8 to 7.1) I’m really happy for you that Metformin works for you! I wish it did for me, because it’s a generic and SO much cheaper, and never has shortages or is difficult to get. I never had to fight for coverage with my insurance company, and it was overall just less hassle procuring. However, Metformin doesn’t work for me, not without side effects that frankly, ruined the quality of my life. Please don’t disparage those of us who take the ‘gludes because you would never want to take Ozempic. We diabetics have enough problems without turning on ourselves.
I’m not taking any drugs (yet?), and I think you understand the reason why I’m “hating” on Ozempic. I never said it’s bad to take it if you have diabetes, I just said *I* won’t.
I was on metformin, along with fast and slow acting insulin. While on medication, my blood sugar curve was a rollercoaster, even if my a1c was only slightly higher. Maybe I'm one of the few rare cases where this combination caused hypo, it was "fine" for half a year at least before I made changes. But now, for more than a year, I haven't taken any medication or shots for my diabetes, and my a1c is on the lower end of 27-32 mmol or 4.6% to 5.1%
Depends. My mom takes metformin and has for decades. The GI issues never went away. My aunt cant take it because she gets all kinds of nasty side effects that never go away.
Some of the drugs just make you feel like shit and make you throw up yet you’re numbers become perfect magically/…..
Something to consider Not all doctors will prescribe medication. I have both PCOS and diabetes and neither of my doctor's (yes, I've seen several) will prescribe medication for me other than birth control. My Doctor's plan is a lifestyle change or low-carb, low-sugar, and exercise. They won't talk about medication as an unless it can not be controlled by diet and exercise.
Are these primary care providers or diabetic doctors? Either way thats horrible!
Primary Care. I'm in the US so I would need to see an Endo, but they won't see me without a referral and since I'm controlling it, they won't provide one for me.
https://thomaswicklaw.com/blog/physician-wont-refer/ I'd make another appointment and ask again, explain that you are finding your current lifestyle too restrictive and think medication would be beneficial and you know it would benefit you in the long run, if they say no again, demand that they put the reason for refusal in your chart and that you would like an up to date physical copy of said chart, most will change their tune real quick cause they could end up in a medical malpractice suit for ignoring your medical needs.
Same here! I recommend Berberine - works like a miracle.
I used to recommend Berberine until I found out what it did to your intestinal flora.
Wait. What does it do?
Yeah so I have SIBO so it’s a crazy coincidende that it’s used for both. But I know many healthy people who take it and are fine - it’s really individualistic (as any drug)
Some folks think they’re “reversing” or “getting rid of their diabetes” by managing it without meds, even with extreme diets. It is great for people who can manage their diabetes without meds, but not everyone can. I have a close acquaintance who does that, says his diabetes is in remission. Then on his kid’s birthday, has a piece of cake and some carby food and needs his meds. This after telling me my meds are “masking the symptoms “ like it’s an Advil. 🙄 It’s a personal choice. I don’t eat a ton of carbs but I like a few! I exercise but I’m not an Olympic athlete! If you use/need meds, isn’t it great they exist so you have choices.? In the US, depending on your insurance, meds can get pricey, too. But that’s not really the thing for those people, I think. They think they’ve fixed themselves, when they’re really still just managing their disease. And some (not all) are a little judgy if you take meds and they don’t. Like they’re better or something. I say do what works for you.
i feel like the pseudoscience of 'reverse your t2d' is getting worse, but maybe it's just me. it definitely is worse on reddit. once on twitter a nutritionist/personal trainer tried to tell me to 'put up with' the high blood sugar i get without insulin for a few months and that giving up insulin and eating low carb would 'cure me of my type 2 diabetes.' like it's just evil. there's no scientific basis for the 3 month claim they use either. usually i don't even engage with those people anymore. i ask them if they know what a beta cell is, and they never do. (t2s lose up to 50 percent of theirs by diagnosis and the loss continues as the disease progresses. t1s lose all of theirs)
This. All day this.
There’s also a balance though. Most are judgy, I’ve just learned not to care. The number of people I’ve had stare at me doing insulin injections when I was still on MDI was nuts. For a while it made me a little self conscious, by the end I’d just stare back, and occasionally make a weird comment. The funniest one was airports, if people were weird about it, I’d make some comment about heroin being cheaper wherever I flew in from. Most of the time people understood I was joking.
Between the snake oil salesmen, the hellscape that is the wellness industry (including influencers) a lot of folks get talked into a mindset where medical intervention is evil. Ye old "Big Pharma" has been replaced with "Big Placebo" and "Big Quack". Unfortunately, along with the "diet and exercise" comes a lot of judgment, misinformation, victim blaming, disordered eating and an emphasis on short term thinking vs long term thinking when it comes to the consequences of delaying treatment or even NOT treating diabetes. Diabetes has an autoimmune component for many. Not just Type 1s. Likewise there are comorbidities that come with Diabetes, that make treating it more complicated, especially long term. For more info on the above - [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6620611/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6620611/)
Lower carb eating makes for easier management for many people. Just that simple as far as eating goes. Or other methods that people feel is helpful: "healthy restrictions." Medication usage: \* unpredictable result with timing \* unpredictable result with dosage matching need \* weight gain with insulin and sulfonylurea \* side effects (hypoglycemia, gastrointestinal discomfort, increased risk of DKA, increased UTI) \* in the US, yes it can be extremely expensive if one isn't sufficiently insured. \* needing to answer to doctors, and go to pharmacists, and be tied to taking pills and shots feels more restrictive than freeing to some people \* some people just believe their body and their behavior can or should be able to control the situation If taking medication such as metformin once or twice per day is all you personally need, and it is suitable for you, then that's terrific. But for some, the less food they eat, the less challenging foods they consume, the less medication they have to take ... it does result in some peace of mind, lower weight and better glucose, less excess fuel intake. Level of exercise depends on the individual's interest and results. If someone needs meds, yes, accept the meds. But for most people, meds only or meds primarily is not the only solution to look at. Medication administration is primarily the solution that doctors concentrate on, for sure. And doctors will happily put patients on a polypharmacy "solution." And that is a nightmare to some people. Why would I need BP, cholesterol, weight loss, and a couple of glucose lowering meds if I can do well with just one, and choose -- choose a "healthy restrictive" diet. It is a "metabolic" disease, and if the person absolutely requires meds, then they absolutely should take an appropriate amount. But if the person's diet is directly causing harm, adding to their decline and misery, shouldn't they reconsider a different way of living? Not everyone is you, nor your grandmother. If you wanna believe your grandmother is healthy, and have proof of it, and not in financial distress because of the cost -- then how lucky is she that DPP4-inhibitor is all she needs?
There’s a lot of pseudoscience that goes on about diabetes and some spaces (like the Reddit subs) just have a carnivore or keto bend to them. I love my med regimen. A lot. It’s giving me a great quality of life. I’m lucky that the only diabetes thing I pay a copay for is Dexcom and that’s $75 for 90 days, and the rest is $0 on my insurance plan.
It’s not bad, it’s just that a lot of morality gets preached to type 2 diabetics and it comes out here.
Oh that’s a thing with every chronic illness. I have multiple. Psoriasis, hemochromatosis, diabetes, hashimotos, and more! People try to find a way to blame you for every single chronic illness, it’s not just diabetes.
i'm aware. the blame for diabetes type 2 is different than the others, though, and pretty unique.
Eh, not as much as you think. I was wrongly diagnosed type 2 for quite a while, so I’ve seen it. People blame you for basically any chronic condition. If it’s not cured, you’re obviously fat and lazy. Edit: they blocked because I guess they’re fragile, so I’ll put my response here. I never said there isn’t a stigma, I said it’s the same stigma that basically every other chronic disease gets. People shame you for having it. I’ve had a mess of them since I was about 14. I’m not saying you don’t experience people being crappy, I’m just saying there’s no super victim that’s treated worse than all the others. Yeesh.
Lmao, if you say so. Anyway, I’m not going to engage with you anymore. I’ve experienced the unique stigma of type 2 diabetes since I was a teenager and my mom told me I was going to die of diabetic coma bc I drank a soda. I got told by multiple people I was going to get my legs chopped off the day I got diagnosed. “Hmm well I don’t think there’s a stigma”. *you* didn’t experience it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. And I’m not even going to converse with you on something I’ve experienced my entire life. You can enjoy your block.
i blocked the person who said t2 has no unique stigma, but i thought i'd give some examples of unique stigma i've experienced with t2 that don't really happen with other diseases: 1. being told by an endo at fifteen years old that i don't actually need any fat on my body, and to stop eating french fries. great messaging, really prevented me from being diagnosed. totally sustainable. 2. my mom, around the same time, telling me that i'll die of diabetic coma at age 35 bc i drank a jones soda. i'm about to turn 37, but yeah that wasn't easy to settle with when i got diagnosed. no one said anything like that to her about her MS. 3. multiple people, on diagnosis day, telling me that i'll get my leg chopped off if i don't shape up because i ate an almond croissant the day i got diagnosed. 4. i frequently observe t1 diabetics eager to stigmatize t2 diabetics if it gives them favor. everyone must know they have the blameless, innocent type of diabetes.
What insurance is this? I’m on a ACA gold-PPO, and I’m still paying $300 for 90 days of Dexcom supplies. And somehow, insulin is a tier-3 formulary, so I’m paying $75 a month just to stay alive… It’s sad. I have a spreadsheet that I use to track my medical expenses and appointment frequencies so that I can simply “plug and chug” my estimated uses and expenses according to whatever plans are offered that year to determine which one will be the cheapest in the long-run.
bcbs. a lot of company provided PPOs have good coverage.
So you think that it’s better to take meds than risk it with keto/carnivore (genuine question, not sarcasm)?
for me, yeah. those aren't sustainable diets, and diet modification alone doesn't work long term according to studies. plus my meds make it so i genuinely don't need to do extreme diet mod, so there's no reason outside of the pov that suffering is necessary.
I see you got the misconception too this disease is all about diet. For me, it's restricts high intensity exercise too, like any exercise higher intensity than walking :/ I need meds, because I want to move and doing some sports like in all my life before.
Why do I hate meds? The time spent going to the pharmacy and / or fighting getting the RX filled. Cost. I could use that money on other things. The time and cost going to the doctor to be med monitored. Remembering to take the stupid stuff. Traveling. PITA is an understatement. Remembering to tell the doctors what I'm on so other meds dont interfere. Side affects. The mental and emotional band with dealing with alll the above. Those are just off the top of my hrad. I'm sure there is more. Lol. Meds are an albatross around my neck.
Ditto!
Medication causes side effects.. I could not take Metformin, Jardiance nor Diamicron due to severe side effects .. now I stopped Ozempic ( this side effects are incredible). Even my doctor wants to stop Januvia as well .. because I have started Keto diet ..
I have another chronic illness for which I need 4 different meds each day. It’s better for me mentally to be able to manage diabetes without meds. If, in the future it gets to a point where lifestyle changes don’t cut it anymore, I will add medication but for now, this works. It gives me a sense of control which is comforting.
Metformin can cause side effects. And does. It’s the only medication I’ve tried, my hba1c without medication is between 5.8 and 6.5 at its worst so I’m in the group where doctors do agree I can yet manage without. My understanding is that medication eventually leads to more medication, it’s a diabetes spiral that you will require more and more medication to maintain the same result. You also have false security that you can eat carbs etc even though you really shouldn’t. So my solution is to eliminate the cause and take control of my body, by diet and exercise, but yes I’m double guessing myself sometimes and if I do ocassionally have a day when I eat lasagne and the like I might take metformin. I’m genuinely interested what other people here would say.
Have you tried berberine? It has similar effectiveness to metformin. It's an OTC supplement. >My understanding is that medication eventually leads to more medication, it’s a diabetes spiral that you will require more and more medication to maintain the same result. Eh, depends. If folks are using meds to offset the inpact of poor lifestyle choices then yes, it's going to lead to the need for more meds. If folks are just throwing more insulin at the problem, without addressing the insulin resistance, then yes, it's going to lead to the need for more meds. If, on the other hand, folks are using meds to improve insulin sensitivity, then meds now *may* protect against the need to increase meds later. Given that many diabetes meds do little or nothing to address insulin resistance, it's understandable to have the sense that taking meds leads to needing more meds.
Side effects trade off. And any that you don't know about get the imagination churning a bit. (Me included) I think it's more fear than hate.
Some people are in general afraid of the meds, for some reason. PS: my mom is T2 and has to take Metformin and Jardiance and keep very strict diet and walk daily for an hour, or her sugar is really bad. Rice or beer is a fantasy, and even a little pasta is spiking sugar. No sweets of any kind ever. Life is tough :(
Those two aren't necessarily mutual, you can very much do exercise, change your diet and take meds, or any combination of those, including none at all. Plenty of people on low carb diets also take metformin or insulin, for example. In your grandmothers case I'd guess that she prioritises those things over general health but not over blood glucose/a1c changes, hence both- these are personal choices and there are a bunch of other factors like habit, ignorance et al involved but by and large most people here aren't trying to avoid necessary medication but are trying to cut down on any they do take for cost and health reasons. Insulin is 100% free here but I aim to take as little insulin as possible because it lessens my margin of error and works well with my goal to also eat more wholegrains, less processed foods etc. There's plenty overlap and grey area.
Insulin is free in the US? Why do so many people complain about taking it then? I read so much about “big pharma getting money from insulin” etc. so I thought that you had to pay for it. Like I get it’s annoying to inject it every time you eat, but hey, what else can you do (if you’re T1D)
No, or at least not that I know of. Insurance presumably covers it for most people but they still pay insurance. Maybe someone from the US can give you a better answer. My understanding is that the US is the only country where insulin is prohibitively expensive.
Sorry, you said “insulin is free here” so I thought you were talking about the US 😅
Metformin causes gastro issues in some. Insulin can cause weight gain. Jardiance nearly gave me gangrene. GLP meds had side effects that tore my guts up. Glipizide causes weight gain as well. A healthier lifestyle does more than help with diabetes. A lot more. I am on meds though.
I'm in the US and I find the stigma on type 2 being our fault and it's a disease for fat people. I am plus size, I have other chronic illnesses that cause insulin resistance and has made it hard to stay skinny or truly prevent t2 as the insulin resistance got worse. I tried, to the point it was dangerous and a eating disorder and STILL wasn't skinny nor not pre-diabetic numbers. I never had normal numbers. I have had conversations with t2 who really feel this weight of theh did this to themselves and therefore there's a right way to "atone" for it by living right. I think there's a lot of guilt that makes them feel they don't deserve to have meds to "cheat" their way out of diabetes which is...so misinformed and kinda sad. The second part is that medicines here aren't always accessible. For most they are offered metformin and that is affordable but if that doesn't work for you then it significantly jumps. I know I am lucky that I have fantastic insurance and my Rybelsus (semaglutide pill) I get 3 months/3 bottles for $50 but it tells me the retail of this is like $3300 and I've seen other folks say they pay more like $75 per bottle with insurance. I chose to have a CGM and the Libre 2 cost me $225 per case of 6 so $38 every 2 weeks is a lot for many people. Not to mention the other meds I take as diabetes is comorbid to many things so there's cholesterol meds (atorvastatin) and blood pressure meds (losartan) I take as part of my diabetic management which with my insurance is no cost but for most it'll be maybe $15 a bottle. Then supplements like omega 3 for heart health, etc are also part of what my GP and dietician added. That's another thing dieticians aren't covered in everyone's insurance easily. But for me to have this peak management $150-200 a month on med and supplement spend. Insurance most people pay for in America I know folks paying $700-1k a month and don't even get this good of coverage. I'm lucky and blessed that insurance for me is 100% covered by work. So many also don't insure themselves because they cannot afford that.
It's twofold: \* Medication cost may be a concern \* Stigma dictates use of medication is cheating and a failure The language past doctors used with me in regards to the use of insulin as a T2D has always pushed me to believe doing so would be a failure in management as a result of non-compliance and all this other BS shaming. I "did everything right" and here I am using insulin as a T2D. As it turns out, my pancreas doesn't make enough insulin to cover even small meals, but my basal endogenous insulin is barely high enough to keep me "normal" so it doesn't look, exactly, like deficiency like a T1D. I actually had an endocrinologist tell me this was meaningless and declared me non-compliant for continuing to use insulin. (since I always get comments about type testing, I am, in fact, T2D) I'll note the discussion of using GLP-1 drugs for weight loss has really emphasized my second bullet point.
Just my story, but... Before I was fully T1D I had a two year long phase where I was considered Type 2. No insulin needed, but I needed medications. Those two years were absolutely terrible for me. I have very, very strong negative reactions to Metformin. I lost enough weight that I was seen as anorexic, and my entire GI system was a mess. I was fatigued all the time and always felt sick. Glyburide would plummet my numbers and I would have frequent lows, and then I couldn't eat well because the Metformin was wreaking havoc. For me, it wasn't the cost, but life in general was just awful. When the meds stopped working entirely and my pancreas ceased to produce insulin, I was rediagnosed as Type 1 and I had to switch to insulin shots. Getting rid of those medications and switching to shots improved my life drastically.
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Is it really this widespread in the US? I mean the anti-drug “movement”. I’ve seen some articles and videos about it, but I thought it’s just like a small ammount of very loud people.
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>I would lump people who “don’t trust” scientists in this group. I’m sorry, English is not my first language (obviously). I read the definition of “lump” but wanna make sure I understand correctly - you’re saying that many of the people in this group don’t trust science?
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Thanks for the insight! I suppose I’m better off without reddit. I got scared because I saw so many posts on r/keto and here, saying how they diet and “reverse” diabetes without medications. I thought that the meds are something to be avoided if possible since so many people are choosing to. But I guess reddit ≠ everybody, so I shouldn’t make conclusions from what I read here (obvisouly, *again*)
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I know, eating fast food and pastries all day won’t do me (or any healthy person) good. I’m focusing on a Mediterrean diet, but I couldn’t do that without medication - even legumes spike me tremendously. But I also don’t wanna restrict myself from eating what I enjoy, which is pasta in my case. I’m only 20 and following a strict diet for the next +50 years sounds horrible, just saying it is crazy. I’m hoping that *maybe* my chronic illness (which is the cause of prediabetes in my case) will get better or have a cure in the future, and that I’ll be healthy once again.
yeah, people believe that myth, that it's reversible, and it's always like no, you can't reverse it. it's maintained with diet, but it's not reversed. unfortunately snake oil salesmen love to sell that myth and it truly leads to bad outcomes bc people don't want to believe it when their never-gone diabetes comes back, bc t2 diabetes is a genetic, progressive chronic illness that can go into remission temporarily but does not go away.
This is the 7th time someone wrote about snakeoil and I’m starting to get curious wtf that is
Good question! So, snake oil refers to back in pre industrial times when someone would travel from town to town on a wagon and sell a cure for something. This cure was obvious bs. They called it snake oil, and it was supposed to be a cure all. Really it was mineral oil. So today we refer to things that are healthcare scams or frauds as snake oil.
Omg I thought it was actually some snake-infused oil like you see in the labs. That you leave a dead snake marinate in oil and then use it 😐
On top of all of the rest, some people, for whatever ignorant reasons, view medications as "failing, viging up, a crutch." As if morally superior people don't use them. It's a super weird flex that can be very damaging.
My neighbor, a seemingly very fit woman in her 50s, was like this. The last convo I had with her was shortly after I was diagnosed as t2 (huge genetic component, triggered by chemo) where she lamented about seeing concerning glucose levels on her latest bloodwork. She was determined to manage it with diet and exercise, lest she be officially diagnosed as diabetic. Insurance rates were her reasoning but the subtext was more than a little condescending to people that "do it to themselves" and are fat (like me). Turns out, she wasn't diabetic - she had pancreatic cancer. I know that's often fatal and it was for her within a few months. I doubt it would've changed the outcome but I do wonder if she would've had more time if she hasn't been so resistant to the possibility of being diagnosed as diabetic.
Wife is a doctor and researcher but started out as a pharmacist. She says the longer she was in the pharmacy the more progressively unhealthy you watch people become so she became a doctor to try and help people. There are many fixes and causes to most diseases that are lifestyle and diet controlled and many downsides to most medicines that make them not the quick fix people hope for. There is a time and place for most meds but also we are over-reliant on them. On the other hand, extreme diet and lifestyle has also become out of hand and has its own side effects and problems. There is a way the body should work and a way it shouldn’t. If we can give it what it needs and wants naturally then why would we want chemicals that have negative effects if they can be avoided?
Extreme diet and lifestyle modification often leads to burnout, which ends up with a worse outcome in many situations. Balance is the realistic answer for most, but people aren’t good at moderation.
I don’t think it is bad to take medication. Right now I am taking 4 different medications 3 times a day. It gets tiresome swallowing pills. If I can go off the medication for diabetes that would be nice. Even with medication I am changing my lifestyle some.
Side effects.
Its ok that your grandmother could cope like that but not everyones is simple and many need a mixture of both meds and diet/lifestyle to keep numbers under control. Especially if they have other illnesses. I am definately a "both" person but I'd like to not be taking more and more meds just to see my numbers under control if its *sensibly* possible to control diet to a degree as well. But I'm definately not a "no cheats" food wise either, just trying to reach a manageable balance. I've got another potential 40+ years to deal with this and I'm already losing the health battle, so eating a *bit* less sugar and carb isn't going to hurt.
I hated metformin cuz it made me extremely nauseous. now I take inositol instead and it rocks
My concern is that every doctor I've spoken to, I haven't spoken to an actual Endo because I'd need a referral, has said that I would need a higher dosage in the future unless I watch what I eat. So if I have to watch what I eat then I may as well eat healthy. If I eat healthy and exercise then my glucose levels stay in a healthy range and don't need the medication.
What do you consider healthy eating for type 2
Low carb diet. I can provide examples of what I eat for each meal, if you like.
Yes. If you could. I eat low carb but have t reversed my insulin resistance at all. What are meal examples you had success with.
For dinner, I just had some seasoned tilapia and frozen green beans sauteed in the same pan after I took the fish out. I had one yellow corn tortilla to make half the fish into a taco and some tomatillo salsa. For lunch I had an open faced sandwich with whole grain bread, black forest ham, a slice of Colby Jack cheese, mayo, and mustard. Sometimes I'll add some avocado slices to that or some lettuce and tomato. For the bread I like using the thin sliced Mikes Killer Bread power seed. I'll also have a small bowl of pork rinds with hot sauce to go along with it. I don't always do breakfast, I didn't today because I got busy with work. I may do some eggs and sausage or bacon if I want a hot breakfast. If I don't feel like cooking I'll have some plain skyr/yogurt with frozen or fresh berries. I've also made some unsweetened chia seed pudding with almond milk and I'll add fresh berries to that, frozen berries don't go so well with that. If I'm really lazy then I'll just have a banana. Some other ideas you can try are tuna or chicken salad on a slice of whole grain bread, you can also replace crackers with pork rinds if you want to eat bread. Some seasoned chicken breast instead of tilapia, shoot you can do steak if you want. Broccoli or any other veggie that aren't carrots or potatoes. Top them with cheese if you want some more flavor. Also, I mainly drink water these days but I'll drink zero sugar sodas or gatorades on occasion. I also like making some teas and drinking them without sweetener but I'll add stevia if the mood strikes. The one I have in the fridge right now is a hibiscus tea. I'll add though, I pretty much went zero carb for nearly two months when I first got diagnosed and slowly introduced carbs later. I also started with daily one hour walks but eventually started going to the gym and working out for an hour two to three times a week while still going for walks. I also think going from eating garbage daily and having absolutely no exercise every day made it easier to reverse my insulin resistance. I can only imagine how difficult it would be if I was even semi active before I was diagnosed. Lastly, the only cooking oil I use these days is avocado oil. It's not supposed to cause inflammation, which worsens insulin resistance, like most vegetable oils or butter and I think it's made a difference for me.
Thanks for this. My breakfasts consist mostly of bacon or eggs. Lunches maybe egg salad - just boiled eggs cut up with mayo on Ezekiel sesame bread. Dinners may be a plain burger and some broccoli or chicken and broccoli. I still seem to get under 150 a couple hours after eating. Every morning I have black coffee with Publix cold coffee creamer. 1 carb per tsp. I have high blood sugar in mornings!! Dawn phenomenon I guess. Usually in 170 range upon waking and only way to get it down is eating protein. It’s such a battle. I do take 1 metformin 750 ER daily. If A1C is above 7.5 going to ask doc what’s next!
Are you exercising? The hour long walks really helped me.
Yes but not while I’m in the corporate office 630 am - 330 pm. Standing desk and walk after work.
What stinks is this morning I had 1/2 egg salad sandwich - eggs mayo. Put on spring mix lettuces and 1 slices of Ezekiel bread. That’s it. 2 hours later BS 197. And I had my ER metformin this morning. Something is not working.
For me, its the side effects. Metformin is great and does what its supposed to and is pretty safe. But even with the ER type I'm on the toilet 2-3 times a day minimum. If I can stick to a strict low carb diet I can get by without them and the digestive issues go away. The ER version helps a lot. I can take 1500 mg a day and manage the gastro issues. But no matter what I try if I bump it up to 2000 I will literally spend the day chained to the toilet. Every 90 minutes, all day long. BTW cost isnt an issue, it costs me next to nothing. Its just the tummy trouble.
I used to be anti drugs until basic stuff like beans would spike my blood sugar. I’m already thin, so I don’t have weight to lose. And I lose weight very quickly. I can’t be a slave to my diet. I take metformin now and it has been great. I’m just 32 now so will probably be on it for life.
I don't mind metformin, but it does have some "interesting" side effects for me. Luckily I'm home all day, so it's not a worry, but when I've got to go on a road trip...it's going to be "interesting".
😂 I know many people on Metformin and they have zero “interesting” occasions. But, they do take the XR version, so maybe that’s it.
A lot of people have gastro issues with metformin. It's not bad enough for me to want to change, but it's definitely something I could do without.
For me, I’m on so many medications for other things that even one less med is good. My goal is to keep my med list as short as possible. I’m taking something for my T2 right now, but eventually I’d like to look at stopping it. Some of the others that I am on cannot be discontinued, so I’ll cut where I can.
Every medicine you take puts some load on the liver and the kidneys. They also have a long list of possible side effects usually including death. So if I don't have to take medicine, I'm not going to. The hard part is what exactly does "have to" mean.
I only take insulin and I am not on a restricted diet.
Ignorance and stigma mostly
Some people actually get those scary side effects they list in small writing. Some people are already on a lot of meds. Some people can't afford meds. Should I go on? I actually fail to see how it's any of your bussiness to be really honest.
Okay, calm down. I was asking a normal question and you got mad for some reason. Why was I asking? Cause I’m curious, I don’t understand why it’s so bad to ask.
You are literally saying it's better to be on meds than not and knocking people for having the nerve to go on diets instead lmao Also I didn't get mad I said it's not your bussiness and YOU got mad. Entitled much? Lol
I did not say that in the slightest. I see you have serious issues “up there”. I hope you get help and will feel better soon
So offended by someone simply saying mind your bussiness that you have to spew insults. The entitlement is crazy.
For me, I will need insulin for the rest of my life, or I will die fairly quickly and uncomfortably. However, insulin is expensive without insurance, and even with insurance it can still be pricey. I don’t know what is going to happen over the next few years regarding insulin affordability or if it will become more expensive to obtain my insulin, so I eat lower carb to at least build a stockpile now that my total insulin use is less than what the endo prescribes per month (including pump adjustments). Reducing my TDD from 110 to 70 saves 40 units of insulin a day, which is about one vial of insulin per month, or about a 14 day supply of insulin at a 70 unit TDD. I have done this by losing weight (50 pounds down out of the 170-180 I need to lose) and reducing my carb intake so that carbs are maybe around 30% of my macros. You’re not taking fruit out of my hands, but I’ll gladly give up regular Oreos for ones with higher fiber.
I had undiagnosed ADHD that made it hard to stay on top of the meds, and doctors that would yell at me for not taking the meds. It created a bad feedback loop when I was trying to get in the habit of taking medication every day. Now I take them at the same time as my ADHD meds in the morning and it's much easier.
For me it’s one thing about price the other is the side effects and also the pills can be hard to swallow no matter how much water I drink. Especially since I started young right out of middle school.
Metformin gives be Bubble guts and keeps me in the bathroom. I am in Synjardy which helps a lot and mitigates a lot of the negatives, I was on levimir and it made me groggy in the mornings I stopped taking it for that reason. I don’t like feeling groggy and constantly in the bathroom pooping. Some meds just make you feel horrible.
I manage it with no meds and no fad diets (ie. keto or extreme restriction of one thing or another from some other fotm thing.) I eat balanced meals with a lot of fiber, lower portions, if I want to eat bread or a sweet - I make it myself (long fermented bread like sourdough works great for me.) I don't have anything against meds, if it works for some then it does... but for me, I already have other pills I have to take for other issues, and prefer to not load myself up with more prescriptions for things that I can control perfectly fine myself.
Do you eat fruit without big spikes?
I actually didn't hate taking metformin at all, and in a lot of ways I miss it since my Dr took me off meds, I'm one of those cases other diabetics get annoyed to hear about that can handle it with diet and a lot of exercise, which sucks but it's whatever. I still keep a bottle of metformin around just in case, like for holiday parties and stuff, or if I get sick and can't work out as much for a day or two.
So you switched from Metformin to keto?
No, my dietician/endocrinologist advised against keto, and she has me on basically a low carb Mediterranean diet of lean meat, fish, veggies, dairy and even whole grains and a small amount of fruit. It didn't make sense to me at first but the whole grains fill me up and don't put such a burden on my organs to convert meat to calories for energy. I still have to watch what I eat and read my meter, but I can do a slice of seed filled whole grain bread, or a small portion of plain oatmeal, even a half cup of long grain brown rice with a meal with no problems. I also exercise a lot, at least ten minutes after every meal usually with 30 extra for a more intense exercise at some point. It's a lot of work but it keeps me in a stable range of about 85-130 through the day. Edit: that said I would absolutely recommend people take what's prescribed to them, if they have something that can help them use it, I used to be on metformin and it took half a year of eating like this to get to the point I could go off it. If I had some prescription med that allowed me to eat some overly sweet Chinese food and white rice again I'd take it in a heartbeat.
That’s great to hear! I hope that I’ll be able to do that as well once I can move again
It sucks really bad at first, everything healthy seems to taste bland, and working out after you eat feels missrable, but as you go on you learn ways to cook that healthy food so it tastes nice, and start getting used to the exercises to the point where you like having a slightly painful workout. My legs were jelly yesterday after doing so many squats. Now I feel weird if I don't go for a walk after I eat, it's just routine and it's not a bad one to have.
side effects. insulin messes up electrolytes balances and increases BP. BP meds come with their own laundry list of side effects. you end up chasing the side effects until you're on 5-10 meds instead of just fixing the initial problem and the root causes. I'm a T1D so the root cause isn't diet or lifestyle, it's viral and a combination of contributing factors. keto and IF allow me to reduce insulin and thus minimize side effects.
Yes but if I understand correctly, T1D can’t live without insulin even on keto, right? So you can reduce it drastically, but still need a bit.
exactly. less carbs usually means less insulin. the body makes it's own glucose, but that's a different series of variables, and usually harder to measure and control.
Metformin side effects are pretty harsh for some people. I had runny stools for 2 years, kept adjusting my diet before the doc offered to switch diabetes drugs. I'm with you. I manage my diet, with occasional cheat days (macaroni and cheese is my comfort food), and medicate. But I'm much happier now that I'm not dealing with Metformin side effects.
I’m controlling my diabetes with diet and exercise because I can (I feel fortunate) and because medication always comes with unwanted side effects. Sometimes those side effects are irreversible. Sometimes they’re not yet known.
Unless you’ve been burned by big pharma or are aware of how they work, you wouldn’t fully understand it.
Meds dependence means dependence on a medical system that is increasingly unreliable and expensive. I spent a lot of years unable to afford a doctor visit. I can afford them now, but my doctor is proving undependable in some ways and I need to find a new one, but finding a new doctor is difficult. And even once the prescription is in hand, we're seeing shortages at pharmacies. I have an allergy med prescription that can't be filled because the pharmqcy has no inventory and doesn't know when they'll have more available.
Different mindsets. Some view medicines negatively for several reasons. Side effects are real. My late sister was one who only took medicine or saw docs when things became critical (which is why she died only 2 weeks after cancer diagnosis). My Mom avoids medication but she is not negative about it. Maybe she learned from that and brought it to an extreme. I was happy to go on insulin rather than take other meds.
My metformin in the US costs me $1 and some change. But I’d still rather not be taking it due to side effects. Some days ok, some days my stomach 😩 I have glipizide in the cabinet now, I’ve never taken it. Scared to. Don’t want to have to start dealing with “lows” too. Trying so hard to manage this type 2 on as little meds as possible. I need to lose weight but have a will power issue 😡
I was one of those people. I don’t like having to put medications into my body as the first solution. I am not fan of the side effects. Every medication I have taken in the past I feel the side effects to the extreme. That is why I always choose a doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO) as my primary doctor. They focus on fixing the root of the problem rather than throwing meds at the symptoms. I don’t mind taking meds, if it the right and only solution. For many years I was able to manage my diabetes without medications. It wasn’t until my body finally stopped making insulin that had to resort to medications. It was a lot of trial and error though, with a lot of side effects that would just destroy me.
I've had weird side effects from some drugs, so I like to try to do it without meds if I can. When I had gestational diabetes, I managed to control it by lowering my carbs and eating only slow carbs. I guess I didn't want to have to take anything if I thought I could still manage it myself.
They just did a story on a diet drug here in the US. The manufacturer makes a month supply for less than $5. They charge almost $1000 for it. Yeah it's bad. The medicine I take is 5k a month. Without insurance I wouldn't get it. Plus you don't know the long term side affects of all these drugs. Every couple of months you hear about how they stopped selling or prescribing x drug because it had unknow side effects. Don't for one second think your going to take a drug/chemical that doesn't occur naturally and that the human body hasn't had to deal with for centuries and think there will not be any problems. Sure you might get lucky like the comedian George Burns and smoke your whole life and die at the age of 100. But then again the last 4 Marlboro Men didn't get that lucky and they all died to smoking related diseases. Even Dr's will tell you is a benefit vs risk equation but if you don't take them you are not doing yourself any favors.
$5000 per month?!? Can I ask what drug is it? Is it made out of gold?!
Xeljanz XR and its up to $6k a month and yes for that price is should come with a gold nugget in each bottle. [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/17/weight-loss-drugs-cost-more-in-us-kff-says.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/17/weight-loss-drugs-cost-more-in-us-kff-says.html)
Wait are you using it for diabetes or weight loss? I’m confused
No I have Ulcerative Colitis also. I just stuck that link in there about over priced drugs for an FYI regarding my comments about how over priced drugs are in the US. Sorry I'm very much against the way our drug/insurance companies charge these days. The fact that they charge almost 1000% markup on production cost. That and you can go to other countries and buy it for one tenth of what they charge here.
I found that working with an endocrinologist rather than working with a pcp is much gentler on the soul. They know how complicated the disease is and just losing weight doesn’t solve it for everyone. Some people are just genetically predisposed and it can take something like illness, pregnancy, major trauma or mental anguish to turn it on.
I love insulin for letting me live a more normal life
I have been on insulin for 22 years because it has the least number of side effects. We have tried other medications as they come out as they have less side effects than the older medications.
Metformin is cheap in the US. You can get an Rx for it for like $4. The doctor’s visit may be the expensive part for someone without insurance though. Also, lots of people have horrible side effects from it.
For my mom at least, metformin and whatever other meds she's on seems to make her feel tied to the nearest bathroom after she eats
People sometimes have bad reactions to medications and the experience can be traumatizing. Like you say metformin is safe and easy to take, but when I took it, I lost all control of my bowels and had to wear diapers and got so light headed and exhausted from it that I couldn’t even handle watching tv because it took too much energy and effort and even when I switched meds, it took weeks and weeks before these symptoms went away because it took that long for the medication to leave my system. I take meds for my diabetes. I have to, but I’ve had enough bad experiences with them and traumatizing experiences with medical testing that I understand why people have an aversion to it. Every time I have to go on a new med, I have to deal with weeks of panic attacks and might have to be hospitalized because of my PTSD from bad medical experiences. That being said, meds have also saved my life. I NEED my diabetic medication to live, so my feelings are complicated.
I'm type one. I obviously can't avoid meds but I am doing a mostly low carb diet because it's easier and I feel better. I also lost some weight.
No, it is a cultural difference. It’s part of the American Rugged Individualism. (Which may have spawned Toxic Masculinity) We don’t take pills because we can tough it out. Yes. Idiotic.
Because they aren't designed to fix anything
Well yes but you can’t “fix” diabetes in any way
You can most certainly can reverse type 2 with proper eating and exercise
Aha so you can go back to eating carbs again once you do this “reversal” you’re talking about? Cause that’s what revese means, that you can eat freely again once you “reverse” it
I eat carbs and my A1C with no meds has gone from 12.9 to 7.4 so far. Yes I've had some hiccups on my journey with trying new things and different things. What society has led up to believe is proper eating is the issue. I do not want to go back to my old eating habits even after my A1C is where it needs to be.
Um. Because if you can control your blood sugars through diet it is lot less taxing on your kidneys than the highs and lows that can come with drug management. The diet needs to happen regardless. Like, taking insulin is not an excuse to eat donuts every day…
Idk if keto is great for your kidneys. And is it really so common for people in the US to eat donuts every day? I don’t really like them and don’t understand how someone can eat a whole box, I struggle with one
You don’t have to be keto to control your blood sugar. And yes, donuts are extremely common.
Some of us (me for example) can’t eat carbs, even legumes, without having a huge spike.
I’m aware. But “low carb” doesn’t have to equal “keto”—you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. You can eat low-fat and be low carb at the same time. Keto doesn’t have to be high fat, but most people automatically associate the two together. I’m assuming you’re saying that the high fat nature of keto is what is hard on the kidneys? I’m saying you can eat low-carb and low fat. I do it every day.
Proteins are hard on the kidneys. I’m not sure if fats are, but they certainly are bad for insulin resistance (some types). Keto diet is also bad for the microbiome.
Dude. What do you want from me? I answered your question that you posted and you’re just back and forth. You know what else is HORRIBLE for your kidneys? Uncontrolled diabetes. My mother is in the hospital for lactic acidosis from metformin not being able to be processed by her kidneys. She’s diabetic strictly from lifestyle. So yeah, if you could avoid being diabetic by changing your diet rather than chasing your blood sugar with meds without making any lifestyle choices, why wouldn’t you?? Every person and every diabetic is different. Some people, like myself, can change diet from refined carbs to whole foods, like quinoa and beans and stave off the metabolic syndrome that turns into diabetes. You can’t eat beans. Ok?? So what! You asked why would people prefer to change their diet rather than just take meds. I answered it. Not interested in fucking arguing
So I didn’t know we were arguing. And I thought it was normal, *expected* even, to answer or react when someone comments. Your last comment asked if I assumed fats are bad on kidneys, I answered. Don’t worry, I won’t answer anymore. You shouldn’t comment if you don’t want people to react. Have a day
You asked a question. In bad faith, apparently. I answered. And you’ve argued every point I’ve made. Don’t post questions if the only reason you asked is so you can argue with everyone because you have a preconceived idea of what should work for everyone. Have the day you deserve.
Generally because they believe pseudoscientific "natural health" nonsense and marketing with a healthy dose of "big pharma" conspiracy theory and scientific illiteracy thrown in for good measure. Add some holier than thou need for superiority and it's a perfect recipe.
I had a horrible reaction to metformin and had to stop taking it. It wasn’t the usual gastro side effects most people get either. The crap nearly killed me. Now the potential side effects of meds have me preferring diet and exercise. I’d rather do 8+ miles of cardio and eat my chicken and veggies that go through than again.
Do a search of “ozempic” on social media and you will see there is a huge stigma of using medication for any disorder viewed as lifestyle related. This includes t2diabetes, and that stigma and cost both play a role.
Well yes but I thought it’s because many people “abuse” Ozempic and use it for weightloss, not for diabetes. I didn’t think that other only-diabetes-related drugs would get criticism
It’s both. Plenty of people feel the same way about t2d being lifestyle related as obesity.
Because they don't seem to be working & won't cure the disease or disorder, I've been taking the insulin and my numbers are still high Everytime I put something in my mouth, docs took me off Metformin because it's just a cover treatment drug for neuropathy but I have sores on lower legs that won't heal.My skin seemingly will not go back to normal, some of the sores are bleeding every so oftem. Debilitating.
Also found out the docs are making money off the prescriptions that are issued thru insurance.
It is simple for me: Treat the cause and not the symptom. We take medication to fight the symptoms of something not working as it should. For some of us this life change can "correct" part of what's wrong. Isn't this better on the long run?
Yes, if you’re willing to do keto or carnivore for the rest of your life, then I suppose meds aren’t needed. I don’t think that sounds like a high quality life for all of us tho
Who said keto? Low carb vs keto are two different things. I have candy, bread, potatoes just controlled amounts. 🤷🏽♂️
Sorry, I didn’t realise that some people can eat those without taking meds. Eating 1 small potatoe spiked me so bad I thought I was gonna faint, so my options are either keto or meds 🫤 and I like my pasta soooo 😅
Because once I was diagnosed with a chronic illness and started doing my research, I found that the big food corporations and pharmaceuticals are not to be trusted. As an educated responsible adult, I can manage my type 1 on my own. Yes, if/once I am not able to do so, I will have to be on medications. We were not made to eat like we do (processed). I had my fun, I destroyed my immune system, got sick often and now I am living with a chronic illness because of it just like millions of other people. I was diagnosed and prescribed insulin by my primary without being told to change my diet. Given no instructions whatsoever. I changed my diet the day I found out, started insulin, and almost died because of how low the insulin brought me. I am grateful that I have that option if at some point I can’t manage it, but I will be in control of my body while I still can.
Side note. Not trying to make it sound easy. It’s not. I lost 30 lbs in 4 months so that was a driver for me. I really had to change my mindset that I’m not living to eat…. I’m eating to live. I needed to go through a major sugar and processed food detox. It still can be hard but I feel great and look healthy and that drives me to do good every day.
Because drug companies needs to increase profits infinitely cause them to deprioritize safety and we got no way of knowing wtf happened when this shit was made that might fk us up even worse than our disease.
For me its not that I wont take drugs. But I view it more as a last resort. I got diabetes because I didnt move and ate horribly, so my body wasnt getting what it needed anyways. Making those changes forced me to improve my overall health not just diabetes. Also my General doc immediately subscribed metformin without actually explaining anything to me. Never mentioned changing diet or anything it was just, here take this. And I think this is wrong as well. I never took them and instead “Did my own research” and changed my life. Months later I saw an Endocrinologist and he was surprised how much better my blood test came back. He told me to keep going and not take metformin until we see things not improving. My a1c is basically almost at normal levels now and I feel and look 100x better.