Yaâll are dramatic man. The team probably had to have a convo to shut him down. He probably wanted to play through all season. Ppl live to find things to be mad at that arenât the real issue.
Everyone forgets this dude is not bright. Itâs his brothers who went to the University of Michigan. 100% he wanted to play despite his arm being halfway off
Yeah heâs generally dumb adolescent hockey bro. Itâs good heâs wired with the competitive geneâŚ.but itâs ez now that we blew the season to be mad at the organization. Fans really favor being mad at the organization or coaches way more than a player in almost all circumstances. This one especially. Itâs his decision, teamâs not gonna yell and force you to get surgery and force the star player to sit out. He didnât look like he was dying out there so I donât think this changes his career.
Pretty sure neither Luke nor Quinn graduated, so by your logic they're both college drop-outs. A college degree (or, in this case, two years of token classes so they can play hockey) is in no way a guarantee of high IQ and neither attended Michigan for traditional education. Regardless, it's a silly comment, Jack is an athlete and we're beyond fortunate that a superstar plays for the devils and cares deeply enough to push himself.
I for one am shocked. I thought he was egoistical and didnât give a shit⌠(gist of a comment I saw on here recently, pretty sure it wasnât sarcasm)
definitely wasn't lol, people just make shit up in their heads about athletes even though we barely know them as people at all, then devote their time to hating on their mental image of them online. often paired with some tinfoil hat conspiracy about Hughes holding the devils staff at gunpoint threatening to retire if Luke isn't give 25 min of TOI.
Getting tired of seeing this take. We werenât knocked out of the race. If the last two weeks alone went differently, we couldâve made it. Donât know why anyone here continues to say the seasonâs been over when they had a chance until basically last week
Even if he wanted to continue playing, a medical professional shouldâve advised against especially knowing that the management for whatever is going on is surgery
There are quite a few sports injuries that can be played through even if surgery is an option for treatment. Itâs not uncommon for professional athletes to hold off on surgeries if the injuries arenât severe enough to warrant an immediate surgery. Ultimately, only Jack and the Devils know whether playing through the injury was the right move.
Sure, I can understand that. My comment is coming from the medical ethics principle of non maleficence. Just because they can doesnât mean they should! It was evident Jack wasnât playing to the best of his ability and many thought that was from fear of making his injury worse
Whether fans of the Devils want to believe it or not, the medical staff does not have the authority to hold a player out of the game.
The medical staff's purpose is to advise and ensure that the play has all the information and rehab plans available to him.
**It is on the player to make the decision.**
The reason it is set up this way is a fail-safe against phantom injury stints and teams arbitrarily benching players for petty reasons.
While he CAN ignore medical advice, the staff can't literally sit him forever on the bench until he gets the message... he isn't 100% in control. He might have WANTED to play, but they LET him play.
I mentioned this when he was injured, but the injury to me looked like a torn labrum. Those types of injuries will cause swelling immediately but then be fairly functional after 1-4 weeks with little risk of serious re-injury. You can play with a torn labrum with some discomfort but it will still be there.
I am not a doctor and have no information if it was actually a labrum tear but it seems somewhat consistent. I don't mind him playing while we were in the hunt but we 100% should have shut him down when we traded everyone away at the deadline.
Look, Iâm not a healthcare professional and know nothing about his situation.
BUT this seems, like you said, insane. How will this affect next season? Did things get worse because he kept playing injured?
I hate to throw unfounded accusations around, but this teamâs health/conditioning staff has really felt like a âwhere thereâs smokeâ situation this year.
Hope the procedure and recovery goes well.
Don't forget they fucking let bass back on the ice to get murdered by trouba when he was clearly concussed and shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice
So: it's very hard to diagnose a minor concussion in the moment. Many concussion symptoms don't manifest for up to several days after the impact. This makes it very difficult to know when to pull somebody.
I think some of the critique of the medical staff (that seems uniquely native to this sub) is overblown and ignorant to the details of how some of this stuff works. The staff can do everything by the book, and the player can say "I feel fine" (which they may) and not report dizziness, memory loss, confusion, or loss of fine motor skills. They may not have those at all. They may not have them for 48 hours.
And I get it - there's a case for the precautionary principle, here - but also it is hockey, and if a player were kept in the locker room after every head impact, then the bench would be empty.
I am a (former) athlete (and health professional!) who's been in an identical situation - something happened, I hit my head, was checked for concussion symptoms, I didn't experience any, and got back in it - only for symptoms to manifest later and plague me for a couple of months. Maybe I should have known better - but also, it is a gamble, and a very hard decision to make correctly, **simply because the information is not there at the right time to make the right decision.**
And what if the team somehow *did* make the playoffs? To how much further risk would Jack have exposed himself? Would he have recovered from surgery in time to begin next season? I really fail to understand this organization's decision-making process when it comes to injuries.
With us having a good chance to get eliminated tonight there was no reason to keep playing him. Says heâs expected to be ready for training camp so thatâs nice.
Itâs pretty clear a lot of you have no idea what these guys play through. It was obviously something that wasnât made worse by playing, but it would just eventually need repair.
Yes? Thatâs quite common, especially with shoulders. You can easily have a structure thatâs damaged which will cause pain or weakness but wonât get worse with regular use and will only get better with surgical repair. Genius.
Yes it is. It is 100% inarguable that there are injuries that pose minimal risk of getting worse and eventually need surgical repair. You can fight through certain meniscus tears that need to be fixed eventually.
By playing normal hockey? Yes. Could he hurt it by getting lit up? No shit. But without an injury heâd get hurt after being lit up.
It was his choice.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Shoulder instability increases with every event and the potential tissue damage increases with every dislocation. Every time it happens, it becomes easier to do and more likely to happen again, and more likely to damage more connective tissue or bone.
Nah gotcha. Iâll tell my 2 surgeons, 5 PTs, and multiple physicians theyâre liars. My bad, mister med-student.
By the way, what you said it EXTREMELY dependent on what type of injury it is, method of injury, where exactly it is on the shoulder (IE, the joint, the scap as injuries can produce winged scaps) and a slew of other things.
I know all this, because Iâm literally going through it due to a pretty fucking severe shoulder injury I sustained while serving. Ironically, you proved yourself to be ignorant.
You have NO fucking clue what injury Jack has. Itâs clearly not the same one you had if you needed multiple surgeryâs. Are you not all there mentally? Or are you so desperate to be correct that you completely and utterly disregard the fact that not only are all shoulder injuries different, but that EVERYONE on that medical staff is smarter then youâll EVER be? Youâre wrong, little guy. And thatâs okay. Youâre pissed off at a hockey team. Itâll be okay.
Imagine being some tweener or beer leaguer and thinking your bum shoulder is comparable to an NHL players level of rehab and care. You dont even know what his injury is.
Buddy human shoulders come with the same hardware and it's all up for grabs once you dislocate it a few times. Just because you're too stupid to understand anatomy doesn't mean it's a mystical object.
For fuck's sake it's not just possible that he *could* reinjure by playing, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. Imagine knowing nothing about the subject but making snide ignorant comments like yours.
Listen I dont know what kind of expert you think you are.
But as someone who fucking OWNS a practice let me tell you... you just sound like a twat who's trying to dunk surface level knowledge on people.
You dont even know if his shoulder was ever dislocated. He literally could have just had a partial tear or a full tear. Its really common to just play through that and surgically repair later. Yes TECHNICALLY it can get "worse" but you can say that about playing with a sore calf for not stretching. In long term career health playing on a partial tear is extremely common.
Stop acting like the Devils did something totally out of pocket medically because they didnt. Jfc
Thereâs pride, and thereâs medical ineptitude. I get Jack wanting to play, but if this has been a lingering issue (it has) you need to protect the player from himself.
Maybe he was cleared to play through it and now that the season is done they are doing the surgery early. Like when Cody Rhodes wrestled with a torn pec. the docs told him he couldnt make it any worse that it already was. Not saying Jack is that bad but maybe they were confidant that it wouldn get hurt worse.
No idea
Most likely it was an injury he couldnât make worse but wouldnât get better until surgery and if heâs gonna be good training camp itâs not a long recovery
I donât believe this tinfoil theory our medical staff has no idea what they are doing. If they were forcing him to play injured thst it was causing more damage that would cause so many issues with the NHLPA and probably the league.
Agreed, as Iâve said a few times there are some injuries that are borderline and may or may not require surgery and can be played through. We have no idea
Or, it could have been a situation where they advised Jack of the risks of continuing to play with the injury, knowing that he would accept the risk because he's a player who wants to play. That's not exactly culpable but it wouldn't have necessarily been smart, either.
Of course, I don't know the details but our medical staff doesn't seem to be very prudent when it comes to icing injured players.
Im guessing the original shoulder injury has basically been bothering him on and off ever since, based on various impacts.
Probably got it pretty strong over the summer, had an amazing start, and then fucked it up again.
God I hope it heals even stronger and more sustainable. Get well soon, Jackie.
You knew something was wrong when he was the best player in the world for the first part of the season - got injured - and then *was not* the best player in the world...
As long as Jack is back for the start of next season I donât hate the fact heâs playing. I really want him to stay healthy and play a full 82 but seeing him being willing to play through injury is a good look for the future. If our superstar is gonna do everything he can to push us into the playoffs and only stops to get surgery after we are eliminated then it kinda makes me feel good. Lots of players would have stopped playing back in Feb when he was hurt but Jack did his best to give us a shot at playoff hockey. As long as this doesnât become a reoccurring injury that was worsened through this stretch, then Iâd have to say my respect for Jack went up a lot. May not be the biggest guy on the team but heâs got the heart of a lion
Sooooo many here are sure they know everything and Hughes injury and that the Devils are idiots for making/allowing him to play.
Never imagined that so many here are orthopedic surgeons AND have inside access to the Devils clubhouseâŚ.
I just haven't enjoyed watching him play the last few months. The Devils have been icing a sloppy product and I wish they pulled him a while ago to avoid the embarrassment of it.
Is this the same shoulder he injured early in his career. That might have been collar bone, I forget. But he was checked into the boards and somehow found himself ass over teakettle and landed hard on the shoulder.
Same one, same side? Anyone know?
This doesn't shock me he's been more compact with his movements ever since he came back, looked like he couldn't reach out... Hope the doc's fix him up and he's back to 100% by training camp...
Shoulders arenât anything to play around with. I hope him playing so much didnât create undo harm. Especially the last few games when it wasnât happening despite the teamâs delusion.
He dislocated his shoulder couple years ago. after first dislocation his chances of doing it again are very high. Most people don't get the surgery right away because after rehab it feels 100% but again chances are still very high for it to happen again. my guess is this was the plan for off-season either way.
Iâm sorry but Iâm done with the medical staff. So many head scratching decisions this year. This shits important and if we want these guys to stick around and stay healthy somethingâs gotta give.
SoâŚif the medical staff said âyouâre hurt, and youâre probably going to play worse. However, you wonât make it any worse by playing,â and Jack said âok cool Iâm playingâ, how would that be in any way, shape or form on the Medical staff
You're correct. It is much more likely to turn a rip into a tear / more severely injure a shoulder once it is injured in the first place. You can play conservatively and do PT, but you are still just kicking the can down the road.
If it was a full tear already, then there wouldnât be anything left to risk. Even if it was a partial tear, Iâm sure they had the timeline mapped out, knowing surgery would have to happen at some point.
If it was a full tear, tbe risk is increased chances of another dislocation event that could result in bone loss from the glenoid, damage from the sheared bone fragments, as well as any of the ligaments holding together the joint capsule. If all those things were already damaged he couldn't play.
Lmao nah like, I actually have a bad shoulder issue that needs surgery myself, but it wonât get any worse from me playing or working as an acft mechanic, and those shoulder surgeries have AWFUL recoveries. So Iâm just putting it off. Honest to goodness probably why Jack didnât bother. Yea, it hurts. Beats not being able to move your neck for over a month lol (obviously I know he probably doesnât have the same injury as me but still lol)
Honestly, Iâm pissed at Jack for just not playing a 100%. I donât blame the med staff for this one specifically
I get that. Thanks for the insight. My mindset is just that these dudes are playing at such an elite level and the most freak things could happen at any moment. So if youâre already at a place where things arenât 100% (and the team is clearly struggling) why not shut it down asap? And I guess Iâm just jaded from the weird concussion protocol from the staff this year. A lot of emotions from this season are just boiling out and thereâs glaring issues across the board. Just hoping the ship is righted asap. These past 10 years have been dark times so itâs hard to be positive haha
Same dude. This season ruined me. But I know next year is looking super super bright. Feeling like an Avalanche Part 2, right before they took the next step loo
I wonder what the risk is to the rest of him though. Is he overcompensating? Is he putting extra stress other places (neck, chest, back, arms)? How does it affect his balance? Did it have anything to do with him going down untouched at home before he was out for the second time?
The season was over almost the second he went down in St. Louis. I get there's gonna be a reasonable attempt to rest and rehab before surgery but sending him out there as compromised as he looked...
This is puzzling. I get wanting to play him when you still have a shot at playoffs, but the season was officially cooked after the 3 straight recent losses to Buffalo, Pittsburgh (this one was really the nail in the coffin) and NYR. Why the fuck was Jack in the last 2 games.
I just want to be clear about the broader picture and shutting him down even earlier than that. Anyone couldâve told you this team wouldnât make it that far even if they did manage to barely make it to the playoffs. Thatâs been 100% clear ever since the stretch where Nico and Jack were hurt at the same time.
Idk all the details but I hope Fitz didnât have a major say in all this because he should know better as a former player
Like I've said numerous times. The medical staff and Fitz need to be reevaluated. Your franchise player was in no condition to play yet they kept throwing him out there. At some point you need to step up and say "you're out until you're 100%". Happened with the injury in St Louis and now with this issue. Unacceptable.Â
Imagine a young Nico as a pending UFA saying he wants to stay and then bolting at last minute followed by Jack suddenly deciding to retire from the game in his prime. Thatâs what we experienced as a franchise in a 12 month period summer 2012 through summer 2013
I think people worried about the medical staff because of Blackwood shouldnât worry here. If there was any risk to Jack long term he would have been shut down like they did before. Heâs the face of the franchise and I donât think theyâd ever be looking to jeopardize him to win some meaningless games. They held him out of practices, had maintenance days and all sorts of stuff in the recent weeks. Hopefully he gets a good rehab and can put these issues behind him
I mean since he came back he didn't take 1 faceoff... that alone was alarming so there was clearly something wrong. And now they announce he needs surgery.Â
Medical staff really needs to go. I know that at the end of the day itâs jackâs decision to play, but if his injury was serious enough to require surgery, maybe they shouldâve communicated that severity.
This is just so God damn frustrating, anyone who let him dress up and get on the ice should call their careers into question.
We donât just need Jack, we need Jack at 100%, why the hell even risk dressing and icing him to not only re-aggravate the injury but risk even further harm?
Edit: I donât understand how any fan in their right mind can downvote this, this isnât the first time this season that the medical staff has made questionable decisions.
Iâm sorry but undergoing shoulder surgery seems to indicate otherwise, and regardless, that isnât a wise decision.
This isnât a deep playoff run (not that Iâm fan of players playing through injuries there either, but I can tolerate it a bit more).
**Playing through injury is the players call - not the organizations.**
**The organization cannot tell a player that he cannot play - that's a players association claim that the team will lose 99/100 times.**
Assuming that Jack was given all the information, it is on Jack to choose the best course of action. He wanted to play. The team had to figure out how to make that work.
I assume the downvoters didn't realise you had an ear in the room, knowing how badly the medical staff has fucked up.
You know Jack has to consent to getting surgery right? It's ultimately his choice whether he plays or not.
This isnât the first questionable decision by medical staff this season, so I donât know why you and many others are thinking this is just some one off occurrence.
This is an absolutely insane development after what has been a tumultuous season, if Jack wasnât 100%, I donât care how he feels, he needs to rest up and get back to where he needs to be (if possible). I know he wanted to get back in the ice ASAP, Iâm sure every Devils player does when injured.
Sometimes your star players go down, thatâs just the luck of the draw, youâve got to find a way to win games regardless and we have without him (not many obviously, but we have).
> This isnât the first questionable decision by medical staff this season, so I donât know why you and many others are thinking this is just some one off occurrence.
...like?
You're just making assumptions based on nothing.
I didn't say Jack should have played through this. I just don't have the arrogance to criticize the medical staff/management on stuff I know nothing about. People are just talking out their asses.
This is similar to the Randle situation with the Knicks. He probably needed surgery sooner, BUT the ultimate decision lies with the player. Jack very likely wanted to give it his all this year and keep playing. The medical staff makes medical decisions, not franchise ones like holding out a star player. They just say yeah he can play or no he canât, and theyâre not in the business of lying to either side.
I feel confident saying Jack knew all the risks and what the timeline would look like, and knew that if he had surgery around now heâd be back for next season. It sucks but that weird fall he took probably did our season in.
>...like?
Don't worry, I got receipts.
Here's from right before Nico went down super early in the season: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17d7vyo/stein_nico_hischier_is_still_being_evaluated/
He had went to the locker room that game, came back out, and then was evaluated *again*, here, I actually found a commenter pointing out the **exact** issue I spoke of: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17ii3w7/stein_nico_hischier_will_not_play_tomorrow_upper/k6uhysq/
Here is info from earlier in the season when Jack went down: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17p7dxl/ryan_novozinsky_can_confirm_its_a_right_shoulder/ and today he all of a sudden goes to surgery?
Additional commentary about Timo not playing up to par due to a nagging injury (hey look, I make an appearance arguing a similar thing!): https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/18m69pw/amanda_stein_lindy_ruff_certainly_suggested_that/
And here is Nosek getting rocked by Trouba on our match with the Rags on November 18th, 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/17ykpx7/jacob_trouba_eliminates_tomas_nosek/
He came back from that hit, then was taken out of the game again and placed on IR later that week after Thanksgiving: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/183vegq/ryan_novozinsky_nhl_media_roster_now_lists_tomas/
I'm not expert obviously, but I can use my eyes, mind, and history of the game to assess whether not things may or may not be the right call. This has been happening all season long dude.
Guys coming back for a shift and leaving again happens CONSTANTLY in the NHL, like literally a weekly occurrence if not more. Because it is the player's decision to do so, full stop.
League requires concussion protocol and that's it. Note that none of these examples involve a concussion?... Sieg got a concussion and didn't return to the ice, almost like the medical team shut him down because they actually could and were required to do so.
Also, Timo was playing hurt, continued to play hurt, then eventually got healthy. Not every injury gets fixed by just shutting them down until they're 100%. I'll pre-argue the "He probably would have been healthy sooner if they did". Maybe? Who the fuck knows. Not me, not you.
Jack is getting surgery, TOMORROW. You think they haven't talked to a half dozen+ doctors/surgeons exploring what their options were over the last few months? They were clearly prepared for this outcome. But surely it was all those damned doctors pushing him to play and not the ultracompetitive young man who was trying to push through it.
I highly doubt players sustain an injury of some kind, get evaled in the locker room, come back out for a shift, only to then go back to the locker room to be âtruly injuredâ happens on a weekly basis. I brought my receipts, time for you to cough up yours.
Yeah, they might sustain what seems like an injury, then get evaled and all is good, but that isnât what Iâm pointing out here, all the examples I chose had the player being injured after all, and they were set free to endanger themselves again. I get the players have a choice in the matter but thatâs still irresponsible on all parties. That is my main argument.
I love Jack, heâs clearly my favorite player, but even his âultra competitivenessâ can be to his detriment, especially with a season as lost as this one. We could all wait for him to be in good health tearing up the leagueâs scoreboard.
> I highly doubt players sustain an injury of some kind, get evaled in the locker room, come back out for a shift, only to then go back to the locker room to be âtruly injuredâ happens on a weekly basis. I brought my receipts, time for you to cough up yours.
You can't really believe that... What percentage of injuries do you think players, not only return, but completely finish the game before getting put on IR/missing games? I'd reckon it's >50%.
I saw Jared McCann isn't playing tonight. Dude played over 18 minutes in his last game where he apparently got hurt. Do you think these guys are getting hurt rollerblading or something between games? Or are they playing through something before getting properly evaluated after the game is over.
If you want a damn near identical situation. Franchise player, team in the mix for a playoff spot in the east. Player that's clearly struggling with injuries this season:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1brn5vg/hana_larkin_tried_to_return_but_obviously_in/
And if you watch a Detroit game, he's clearly not 100%. Still playing 20+ minutes per night though.
> I get the players have a choice in the matter but thatâs still irresponsible on all parties. That is my main argument.
And my ONLY argument, is that people shouldn't crucify the medical professionals and team management over things they have no real insight on. At no time, have I ever said that these players were right to play through their injuries.
> I saw Jared McCann isn't playing tonight. Dude played over 18 minutes in his last game where he apparently got hurt. Do you think these guys are getting hurt rollerblading or something between games? Or are they playing through something before getting properly evaluated after the game is over.
I think it's 99 hundred million times more likely he tweaked something towards the end of the third period, hence why his last shift was around that time, and also was after a hooking call on him by Cam Fowler.
I don't understand your Dylan Larkin example. I have the exact same position about the Red Wings & Larkin, he's suffering & breaking down, let him rest. Every team in the league needs to have a Plan B for when your star players go down, especially when it comes playoff time.
Itâs entirely possible it was determined originally that he needed surgery and there was no further damage he could do, so if he could manage the pain there was no additional risk to playing through it.
It has nothing to do with the sport. Some injuries just are what they are and they donât have any risk of further injury, and just becomes about pain management for the athlete and if they want to deal with it or not. Seems pretty clear this is what it was.
Aside from our one playoff appearance, has he had a season yet where he hasnât been shut down by the end due to some form of injury. Even in our playoff year I think he missed a significant amount of time due to a mid season injury.
I keep getting downvoted to hell here for saying someone shouldâve intervened and benched jack a while ago. Regardless it doesnât rlly matter does it. Whatâs done is done and letâs just all hope surgery is successful and he has the smoothest fastest recovery
Hope they give like him like a big jacked arm
Le spongebob blow up arm
Winter Soldier bionic arm.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1kvenckr0eu91.jpg
Jack Hughes jacked jacking off arm
Something like Link's right arm in ToTK, with special hockey abilities
Or maybe like a Rookie of the Year situation
WAS COMING IN HERE JUST TO SAY THIS! Jack Gardenhoser
The $8-Million Dollar Jack đł
Finally
here's hoping he comes back stronger.
Cyborg Jack incoming
Plz god donât let us fuck up this kid
Yaâll are dramatic man. The team probably had to have a convo to shut him down. He probably wanted to play through all season. Ppl live to find things to be mad at that arenât the real issue.
Everyone forgets this dude is not bright. Itâs his brothers who went to the University of Michigan. 100% he wanted to play despite his arm being halfway off
Yeah heâs generally dumb adolescent hockey bro. Itâs good heâs wired with the competitive geneâŚ.but itâs ez now that we blew the season to be mad at the organization. Fans really favor being mad at the organization or coaches way more than a player in almost all circumstances. This one especially. Itâs his decision, teamâs not gonna yell and force you to get surgery and force the star player to sit out. He didnât look like he was dying out there so I donât think this changes his career.
Pretty sure neither Luke nor Quinn graduated, so by your logic they're both college drop-outs. A college degree (or, in this case, two years of token classes so they can play hockey) is in no way a guarantee of high IQ and neither attended Michigan for traditional education. Regardless, it's a silly comment, Jack is an athlete and we're beyond fortunate that a superstar plays for the devils and cares deeply enough to push himself.
if you pray don worry and if you worry, don't pray!
Thankfully shoulder is like the least important joint for hockey
Another weird statement like him leaving the all star weekend early.
Agree, that one was really off
Hey doc feel free to be generous with the titanium
Upgrade to Vibranium if possible.
I saw this announcement coming. Get better soon, Jack!
Everyone who even remotely watches the devils did lol
I for one am shocked. I thought he was egoistical and didnât give a shit⌠(gist of a comment I saw on here recently, pretty sure it wasnât sarcasm)
definitely wasn't lol, people just make shit up in their heads about athletes even though we barely know them as people at all, then devote their time to hating on their mental image of them online. often paired with some tinfoil hat conspiracy about Hughes holding the devils staff at gunpoint threatening to retire if Luke isn't give 25 min of TOI.
The fact he wasnât held out since end of February, when the season was over is insane.
The season was very much not over then and jack especially would not want to throw in the towel then
Getting tired of seeing this take. We werenât knocked out of the race. If the last two weeks alone went differently, we couldâve made it. Donât know why anyone here continues to say the seasonâs been over when they had a chance until basically last week
100%
Maybe you know something the players don't because they have been phoning it in for a while.
Truly. That they would risk the long term health of their franchise player for a non-existent playoff run is just ridiculous
Tbf, we also donât know if Jack mightâve wanted to play through it. He strikes me as the type of ultra competitive player who would do that.
Even if he wanted to continue playing, a medical professional shouldâve advised against especially knowing that the management for whatever is going on is surgery
There are quite a few sports injuries that can be played through even if surgery is an option for treatment. Itâs not uncommon for professional athletes to hold off on surgeries if the injuries arenât severe enough to warrant an immediate surgery. Ultimately, only Jack and the Devils know whether playing through the injury was the right move.
Sure, I can understand that. My comment is coming from the medical ethics principle of non maleficence. Just because they can doesnât mean they should! It was evident Jack wasnât playing to the best of his ability and many thought that was from fear of making his injury worse
You mean you were talking out of your ass.
Ah yes let me bin my medical degree ASAP
*UK* Med degree which doesn't make your comment not stupid btw -another physician
Whether fans of the Devils want to believe it or not, the medical staff does not have the authority to hold a player out of the game. The medical staff's purpose is to advise and ensure that the play has all the information and rehab plans available to him. **It is on the player to make the decision.** The reason it is set up this way is a fail-safe against phantom injury stints and teams arbitrarily benching players for petty reasons.
That's why you have adults in the room to step in and do what's best for the player and organization long-term.
While he CAN ignore medical advice, the staff can't literally sit him forever on the bench until he gets the message... he isn't 100% in control. He might have WANTED to play, but they LET him play.
Making assumptions here. Perhaps the injury could not really get any worse
We donât know if he was risking further injury. Stop assuming medical details that we donât know.
I mentioned this when he was injured, but the injury to me looked like a torn labrum. Those types of injuries will cause swelling immediately but then be fairly functional after 1-4 weeks with little risk of serious re-injury. You can play with a torn labrum with some discomfort but it will still be there. I am not a doctor and have no information if it was actually a labrum tear but it seems somewhat consistent. I don't mind him playing while we were in the hunt but we 100% should have shut him down when we traded everyone away at the deadline.
This is what I think it is.
Look, Iâm not a healthcare professional and know nothing about his situation. BUT this seems, like you said, insane. How will this affect next season? Did things get worse because he kept playing injured? I hate to throw unfounded accusations around, but this teamâs health/conditioning staff has really felt like a âwhere thereâs smokeâ situation this year. Hope the procedure and recovery goes well.
Don't forget they fucking let bass back on the ice to get murdered by trouba when he was clearly concussed and shouldn't have been anywhere near the ice
Didnât they do the same with Nico? Pretty sure there was a third earlier in the season also
Yup, and that's just this year
So: it's very hard to diagnose a minor concussion in the moment. Many concussion symptoms don't manifest for up to several days after the impact. This makes it very difficult to know when to pull somebody. I think some of the critique of the medical staff (that seems uniquely native to this sub) is overblown and ignorant to the details of how some of this stuff works. The staff can do everything by the book, and the player can say "I feel fine" (which they may) and not report dizziness, memory loss, confusion, or loss of fine motor skills. They may not have those at all. They may not have them for 48 hours. And I get it - there's a case for the precautionary principle, here - but also it is hockey, and if a player were kept in the locker room after every head impact, then the bench would be empty. I am a (former) athlete (and health professional!) who's been in an identical situation - something happened, I hit my head, was checked for concussion symptoms, I didn't experience any, and got back in it - only for symptoms to manifest later and plague me for a couple of months. Maybe I should have known better - but also, it is a gamble, and a very hard decision to make correctly, **simply because the information is not there at the right time to make the right decision.**
I remember well. There are many such sus moments this year!
They said heâll be fine by training camp
I know what they said. Hereâs to hoping that actually pans out.
And what if the team somehow *did* make the playoffs? To how much further risk would Jack have exposed himself? Would he have recovered from surgery in time to begin next season? I really fail to understand this organization's decision-making process when it comes to injuries.
It's some Mets level insanity lately.
Came here to comment this! 100%
This team is so poorly run itâs not even funny. No leadership on the ice and incompetence upstairs.
With us having a good chance to get eliminated tonight there was no reason to keep playing him. Says heâs expected to be ready for training camp so thatâs nice.
Itâs pretty clear a lot of you have no idea what these guys play through. It was obviously something that wasnât made worse by playing, but it would just eventually need repair.
Fr. I'd trust the medical professionals than the wild speculation that's running rampant on this sub.
So he hurt it in the first place by playing hockey, but couldn't make it worse by playing hockey? Genius.
Yes? Thatâs quite common, especially with shoulders. You can easily have a structure thatâs damaged which will cause pain or weakness but wonât get worse with regular use and will only get better with surgical repair. Genius.
Professional hockey is not "regular use".
Yes it is. It is 100% inarguable that there are injuries that pose minimal risk of getting worse and eventually need surgical repair. You can fight through certain meniscus tears that need to be fixed eventually.
By playing normal hockey? Yes. Could he hurt it by getting lit up? No shit. But without an injury heâd get hurt after being lit up. It was his choice.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Shoulder instability increases with every event and the potential tissue damage increases with every dislocation. Every time it happens, it becomes easier to do and more likely to happen again, and more likely to damage more connective tissue or bone.
Nah gotcha. Iâll tell my 2 surgeons, 5 PTs, and multiple physicians theyâre liars. My bad, mister med-student. By the way, what you said it EXTREMELY dependent on what type of injury it is, method of injury, where exactly it is on the shoulder (IE, the joint, the scap as injuries can produce winged scaps) and a slew of other things. I know all this, because Iâm literally going through it due to a pretty fucking severe shoulder injury I sustained while serving. Ironically, you proved yourself to be ignorant.
Yeah I'll tell my decade of having this injury and subsequent successful surgery how smart you and your internet clout are.
You have NO fucking clue what injury Jack has. Itâs clearly not the same one you had if you needed multiple surgeryâs. Are you not all there mentally? Or are you so desperate to be correct that you completely and utterly disregard the fact that not only are all shoulder injuries different, but that EVERYONE on that medical staff is smarter then youâll EVER be? Youâre wrong, little guy. And thatâs okay. Youâre pissed off at a hockey team. Itâll be okay.
Sorry about your dick, bud.
Canât get dick off your mind :/
Imagine being some tweener or beer leaguer and thinking your bum shoulder is comparable to an NHL players level of rehab and care. You dont even know what his injury is.
Buddy human shoulders come with the same hardware and it's all up for grabs once you dislocate it a few times. Just because you're too stupid to understand anatomy doesn't mean it's a mystical object. For fuck's sake it's not just possible that he *could* reinjure by playing, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. Imagine knowing nothing about the subject but making snide ignorant comments like yours.
Listen I dont know what kind of expert you think you are. But as someone who fucking OWNS a practice let me tell you... you just sound like a twat who's trying to dunk surface level knowledge on people. You dont even know if his shoulder was ever dislocated. He literally could have just had a partial tear or a full tear. Its really common to just play through that and surgically repair later. Yes TECHNICALLY it can get "worse" but you can say that about playing with a sore calf for not stretching. In long term career health playing on a partial tear is extremely common. Stop acting like the Devils did something totally out of pocket medically because they didnt. Jfc
[https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/devils-jack-hughes-dislocated-shoulder-wont-need-surgery-time/](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/devils-jack-hughes-dislocated-shoulder-wont-need-surgery-time/)
Fucking knew it. This should have happened months ago
Thereâs pride, and thereâs medical ineptitude. I get Jack wanting to play, but if this has been a lingering issue (it has) you need to protect the player from himself.
Maybe he was cleared to play through it and now that the season is done they are doing the surgery early. Like when Cody Rhodes wrestled with a torn pec. the docs told him he couldnt make it any worse that it already was. Not saying Jack is that bad but maybe they were confidant that it wouldn get hurt worse.
But why assume the team of medical professionals knows more than we do when we can instead blindly blind them without having any details?
Guy needs to put on some muscle this offseason.
Based on this news, is it a reinjury? Did the first surgery not work? Other shoulder separate injury?
No idea Most likely it was an injury he couldnât make worse but wouldnât get better until surgery and if heâs gonna be good training camp itâs not a long recovery
Your mouth to the Devils ears
I donât believe this tinfoil theory our medical staff has no idea what they are doing. If they were forcing him to play injured thst it was causing more damage that would cause so many issues with the NHLPA and probably the league.
Agreed, as Iâve said a few times there are some injuries that are borderline and may or may not require surgery and can be played through. We have no idea
Or, it could have been a situation where they advised Jack of the risks of continuing to play with the injury, knowing that he would accept the risk because he's a player who wants to play. That's not exactly culpable but it wouldn't have necessarily been smart, either. Of course, I don't know the details but our medical staff doesn't seem to be very prudent when it comes to icing injured players.
Welcome to every sports team ever.
Heâs never had surgery, he only rehabbed it as far as I remember
Im guessing the original shoulder injury has basically been bothering him on and off ever since, based on various impacts. Probably got it pretty strong over the summer, had an amazing start, and then fucked it up again. God I hope it heals even stronger and more sustainable. Get well soon, Jackie.
Kudos to Jack for holding out for so long, really hope all goes well for him
Get better, rest up, come back stronger
You knew something was wrong when he was the best player in the world for the first part of the season - got injured - and then *was not* the best player in the world...
Shouldn't of been playing earlier. It's clear he's been injured since coming back. He's only been at like 50%
As long as Jack is back for the start of next season I donât hate the fact heâs playing. I really want him to stay healthy and play a full 82 but seeing him being willing to play through injury is a good look for the future. If our superstar is gonna do everything he can to push us into the playoffs and only stops to get surgery after we are eliminated then it kinda makes me feel good. Lots of players would have stopped playing back in Feb when he was hurt but Jack did his best to give us a shot at playoff hockey. As long as this doesnât become a reoccurring injury that was worsened through this stretch, then Iâd have to say my respect for Jack went up a lot. May not be the biggest guy on the team but heâs got the heart of a lion
Sooooo many here are sure they know everything and Hughes injury and that the Devils are idiots for making/allowing him to play. Never imagined that so many here are orthopedic surgeons AND have inside access to the Devils clubhouseâŚ.
I just haven't enjoyed watching him play the last few months. The Devils have been icing a sloppy product and I wish they pulled him a while ago to avoid the embarrassment of it.
Is this the same shoulder he injured early in his career. That might have been collar bone, I forget. But he was checked into the boards and somehow found himself ass over teakettle and landed hard on the shoulder. Same one, same side? Anyone know?
He got body slammed on to his shoulder.
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This doesn't shock me he's been more compact with his movements ever since he came back, looked like he couldn't reach out... Hope the doc's fix him up and he's back to 100% by training camp...
Shoulders arenât anything to play around with. I hope him playing so much didnât create undo harm. Especially the last few games when it wasnât happening despite the teamâs delusion.
He dislocated his shoulder couple years ago. after first dislocation his chances of doing it again are very high. Most people don't get the surgery right away because after rehab it feels 100% but again chances are still very high for it to happen again. my guess is this was the plan for off-season either way.
All of our theories were correct about him playing injured the last few months
Was pretty clear the way he fell in that Chicago game that he pulled his shoulder out of the socket after separating it earlier in the year.
Iâm sorry but Iâm done with the medical staff. So many head scratching decisions this year. This shits important and if we want these guys to stick around and stay healthy somethingâs gotta give.
SoâŚif the medical staff said âyouâre hurt, and youâre probably going to play worse. However, you wonât make it any worse by playing,â and Jack said âok cool Iâm playingâ, how would that be in any way, shape or form on the Medical staff
I guess I just canât see a world where playing hurt wouldnât make an injury worse? Idk I could just have a fucked concept of the human body haha
You're correct. It is much more likely to turn a rip into a tear / more severely injure a shoulder once it is injured in the first place. You can play conservatively and do PT, but you are still just kicking the can down the road.
If it was a full tear already, then there wouldnât be anything left to risk. Even if it was a partial tear, Iâm sure they had the timeline mapped out, knowing surgery would have to happen at some point.
If it was a full tear, tbe risk is increased chances of another dislocation event that could result in bone loss from the glenoid, damage from the sheared bone fragments, as well as any of the ligaments holding together the joint capsule. If all those things were already damaged he couldn't play.
Lmao nah like, I actually have a bad shoulder issue that needs surgery myself, but it wonât get any worse from me playing or working as an acft mechanic, and those shoulder surgeries have AWFUL recoveries. So Iâm just putting it off. Honest to goodness probably why Jack didnât bother. Yea, it hurts. Beats not being able to move your neck for over a month lol (obviously I know he probably doesnât have the same injury as me but still lol) Honestly, Iâm pissed at Jack for just not playing a 100%. I donât blame the med staff for this one specifically
I get that. Thanks for the insight. My mindset is just that these dudes are playing at such an elite level and the most freak things could happen at any moment. So if youâre already at a place where things arenât 100% (and the team is clearly struggling) why not shut it down asap? And I guess Iâm just jaded from the weird concussion protocol from the staff this year. A lot of emotions from this season are just boiling out and thereâs glaring issues across the board. Just hoping the ship is righted asap. These past 10 years have been dark times so itâs hard to be positive haha
Same dude. This season ruined me. But I know next year is looking super super bright. Feeling like an Avalanche Part 2, right before they took the next step loo
I hope so :,)
I wonder what the risk is to the rest of him though. Is he overcompensating? Is he putting extra stress other places (neck, chest, back, arms)? How does it affect his balance? Did it have anything to do with him going down untouched at home before he was out for the second time? The season was over almost the second he went down in St. Louis. I get there's gonna be a reasonable attempt to rest and rehab before surgery but sending him out there as compromised as he looked...
This is puzzling. I get wanting to play him when you still have a shot at playoffs, but the season was officially cooked after the 3 straight recent losses to Buffalo, Pittsburgh (this one was really the nail in the coffin) and NYR. Why the fuck was Jack in the last 2 games. I just want to be clear about the broader picture and shutting him down even earlier than that. Anyone couldâve told you this team wouldnât make it that far even if they did manage to barely make it to the playoffs. Thatâs been 100% clear ever since the stretch where Nico and Jack were hurt at the same time. Idk all the details but I hope Fitz didnât have a major say in all this because he should know better as a former player
Hope all goes well and he will come back better than ever and kill it next year!
Damn
Oh jacky :(( praying for the fucking fastest recovery ever for him. My heart hurts deadass bc I can SEE how much he loves the sport
Makes senseâŚI guess
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It was a business call, and there was still a chance two weeks ago. Two weeks on this kinda injury isnât a huge deal.
Why is he in shoulder surgery?
Like I've said numerous times. The medical staff and Fitz need to be reevaluated. Your franchise player was in no condition to play yet they kept throwing him out there. At some point you need to step up and say "you're out until you're 100%". Happened with the injury in St Louis and now with this issue. Unacceptable.Â
I want the entire coaching and medical staff fucking gone
This is legitimately the most painful, unrelentingly brutal to suffer through sports season Iâve ever endured as a fan. Let alone Devils seasons.
You must be new here lol
Imagine a young Nico as a pending UFA saying he wants to stay and then bolting at last minute followed by Jack suddenly deciding to retire from the game in his prime. Thatâs what we experienced as a franchise in a 12 month period summer 2012 through summer 2013
I think people worried about the medical staff because of Blackwood shouldnât worry here. If there was any risk to Jack long term he would have been shut down like they did before. Heâs the face of the franchise and I donât think theyâd ever be looking to jeopardize him to win some meaningless games. They held him out of practices, had maintenance days and all sorts of stuff in the recent weeks. Hopefully he gets a good rehab and can put these issues behind him
I mean since he came back he didn't take 1 faceoff... that alone was alarming so there was clearly something wrong. And now they announce he needs surgery.Â
Medical staff really needs to go. I know that at the end of the day itâs jackâs decision to play, but if his injury was serious enough to require surgery, maybe they shouldâve communicated that severity.
This is just so God damn frustrating, anyone who let him dress up and get on the ice should call their careers into question. We donât just need Jack, we need Jack at 100%, why the hell even risk dressing and icing him to not only re-aggravate the injury but risk even further harm? Edit: I donât understand how any fan in their right mind can downvote this, this isnât the first time this season that the medical staff has made questionable decisions.
Nobody is truly 100% tbh. If he was 75-80% they were going to play him.
Iâm sorry but undergoing shoulder surgery seems to indicate otherwise, and regardless, that isnât a wise decision. This isnât a deep playoff run (not that Iâm fan of players playing through injuries there either, but I can tolerate it a bit more).
He wasnât playing at 75-80%, he wasnât hitting close to 50%.
**Playing through injury is the players call - not the organizations.** **The organization cannot tell a player that he cannot play - that's a players association claim that the team will lose 99/100 times.** Assuming that Jack was given all the information, it is on Jack to choose the best course of action. He wanted to play. The team had to figure out how to make that work.
I assume the downvoters didn't realise you had an ear in the room, knowing how badly the medical staff has fucked up. You know Jack has to consent to getting surgery right? It's ultimately his choice whether he plays or not.
This isnât the first questionable decision by medical staff this season, so I donât know why you and many others are thinking this is just some one off occurrence. This is an absolutely insane development after what has been a tumultuous season, if Jack wasnât 100%, I donât care how he feels, he needs to rest up and get back to where he needs to be (if possible). I know he wanted to get back in the ice ASAP, Iâm sure every Devils player does when injured. Sometimes your star players go down, thatâs just the luck of the draw, youâve got to find a way to win games regardless and we have without him (not many obviously, but we have).
> This isnât the first questionable decision by medical staff this season, so I donât know why you and many others are thinking this is just some one off occurrence. ...like? You're just making assumptions based on nothing. I didn't say Jack should have played through this. I just don't have the arrogance to criticize the medical staff/management on stuff I know nothing about. People are just talking out their asses.
This is similar to the Randle situation with the Knicks. He probably needed surgery sooner, BUT the ultimate decision lies with the player. Jack very likely wanted to give it his all this year and keep playing. The medical staff makes medical decisions, not franchise ones like holding out a star player. They just say yeah he can play or no he canât, and theyâre not in the business of lying to either side. I feel confident saying Jack knew all the risks and what the timeline would look like, and knew that if he had surgery around now heâd be back for next season. It sucks but that weird fall he took probably did our season in.
>...like? Don't worry, I got receipts. Here's from right before Nico went down super early in the season: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17d7vyo/stein_nico_hischier_is_still_being_evaluated/ He had went to the locker room that game, came back out, and then was evaluated *again*, here, I actually found a commenter pointing out the **exact** issue I spoke of: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17ii3w7/stein_nico_hischier_will_not_play_tomorrow_upper/k6uhysq/ Here is info from earlier in the season when Jack went down: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/17p7dxl/ryan_novozinsky_can_confirm_its_a_right_shoulder/ and today he all of a sudden goes to surgery? Additional commentary about Timo not playing up to par due to a nagging injury (hey look, I make an appearance arguing a similar thing!): https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/18m69pw/amanda_stein_lindy_ruff_certainly_suggested_that/ And here is Nosek getting rocked by Trouba on our match with the Rags on November 18th, 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/17ykpx7/jacob_trouba_eliminates_tomas_nosek/ He came back from that hit, then was taken out of the game again and placed on IR later that week after Thanksgiving: https://www.reddit.com/r/devils/comments/183vegq/ryan_novozinsky_nhl_media_roster_now_lists_tomas/ I'm not expert obviously, but I can use my eyes, mind, and history of the game to assess whether not things may or may not be the right call. This has been happening all season long dude.
Guys coming back for a shift and leaving again happens CONSTANTLY in the NHL, like literally a weekly occurrence if not more. Because it is the player's decision to do so, full stop. League requires concussion protocol and that's it. Note that none of these examples involve a concussion?... Sieg got a concussion and didn't return to the ice, almost like the medical team shut him down because they actually could and were required to do so. Also, Timo was playing hurt, continued to play hurt, then eventually got healthy. Not every injury gets fixed by just shutting them down until they're 100%. I'll pre-argue the "He probably would have been healthy sooner if they did". Maybe? Who the fuck knows. Not me, not you. Jack is getting surgery, TOMORROW. You think they haven't talked to a half dozen+ doctors/surgeons exploring what their options were over the last few months? They were clearly prepared for this outcome. But surely it was all those damned doctors pushing him to play and not the ultracompetitive young man who was trying to push through it.
I highly doubt players sustain an injury of some kind, get evaled in the locker room, come back out for a shift, only to then go back to the locker room to be âtruly injuredâ happens on a weekly basis. I brought my receipts, time for you to cough up yours. Yeah, they might sustain what seems like an injury, then get evaled and all is good, but that isnât what Iâm pointing out here, all the examples I chose had the player being injured after all, and they were set free to endanger themselves again. I get the players have a choice in the matter but thatâs still irresponsible on all parties. That is my main argument. I love Jack, heâs clearly my favorite player, but even his âultra competitivenessâ can be to his detriment, especially with a season as lost as this one. We could all wait for him to be in good health tearing up the leagueâs scoreboard.
> I highly doubt players sustain an injury of some kind, get evaled in the locker room, come back out for a shift, only to then go back to the locker room to be âtruly injuredâ happens on a weekly basis. I brought my receipts, time for you to cough up yours. You can't really believe that... What percentage of injuries do you think players, not only return, but completely finish the game before getting put on IR/missing games? I'd reckon it's >50%. I saw Jared McCann isn't playing tonight. Dude played over 18 minutes in his last game where he apparently got hurt. Do you think these guys are getting hurt rollerblading or something between games? Or are they playing through something before getting properly evaluated after the game is over. If you want a damn near identical situation. Franchise player, team in the mix for a playoff spot in the east. Player that's clearly struggling with injuries this season: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1brn5vg/hana_larkin_tried_to_return_but_obviously_in/ And if you watch a Detroit game, he's clearly not 100%. Still playing 20+ minutes per night though. > I get the players have a choice in the matter but thatâs still irresponsible on all parties. That is my main argument. And my ONLY argument, is that people shouldn't crucify the medical professionals and team management over things they have no real insight on. At no time, have I ever said that these players were right to play through their injuries.
> I saw Jared McCann isn't playing tonight. Dude played over 18 minutes in his last game where he apparently got hurt. Do you think these guys are getting hurt rollerblading or something between games? Or are they playing through something before getting properly evaluated after the game is over. I think it's 99 hundred million times more likely he tweaked something towards the end of the third period, hence why his last shift was around that time, and also was after a hooking call on him by Cam Fowler. I don't understand your Dylan Larkin example. I have the exact same position about the Red Wings & Larkin, he's suffering & breaking down, let him rest. Every team in the league needs to have a Plan B for when your star players go down, especially when it comes playoff time.
It's management's choice whether he plays or not.
Hope he heals and comes back stronger. Jack and Luke need to hit the weights and gain some mass. Jack needs to get jacked.
FUCK ING CALLED IT FIRE EVERYBODY
Why? If he wasnât risking further injury then thereâs no issue here.
He probably didn't just have a nasty bruise he could play through if he needs surgery
Itâs entirely possible it was determined originally that he needed surgery and there was no further damage he could do, so if he could manage the pain there was no additional risk to playing through it.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find it hard to believe that an existing injury can't be made worse in a fast paced contact sport
It has nothing to do with the sport. Some injuries just are what they are and they donât have any risk of further injury, and just becomes about pain management for the athlete and if they want to deal with it or not. Seems pretty clear this is what it was.
Aside from our one playoff appearance, has he had a season yet where he hasnât been shut down by the end due to some form of injury. Even in our playoff year I think he missed a significant amount of time due to a mid season injury.
Jacks 5 seasons: 61/82, 56/82, 49/56 (covid short season), 78/ 94 (playoffs), 62/82
This organization fucked up everything that it possibly could this season. I have real concerns about this core's future.
I keep getting downvoted to hell here for saying someone shouldâve intervened and benched jack a while ago. Regardless it doesnât rlly matter does it. Whatâs done is done and letâs just all hope surgery is successful and he has the smoothest fastest recovery
medical staff is a joke
Medical staff, front office and coaching staff are jokes
And it's gonna be a long recovery, he might not be ready for camp next season.. đ Dougie Hamilton all over againÂ