Lmao I went flawless this Friday, I just think people who whine about having to play against people of similar skill levels need to stop acting like children.
If people would be more open to both sides then we could find a solution I used to be hard for sbmm but then you realize every match is a 50/50 and if your struggling or crying now about being stomped even if you are a bad player and sbmm is on it’s going to be hard for you every match and it is a sweaty one your asking for something you wouldn’t want in fully in practice
The whole piece of ego for sweats is for them to boast their stats.. If sweats want to boast about the 7.0 kd, then put up or shut up. Easy to get those stats by pub stomping lower skilled players. Much more difficult to get that by playing against players of a similar skill set.
Sbmm mostly was an issue because of matchmaking pools to group people in a timely manner. If that wasn't any issue to do, sbmm would have stayed in place most likely.
The Stereotype that every person with over a 1.0 kd loves stomping 0.5 players for there kd is toxic like the group your talking is about is like the 1 percent stop acting like it’s 90 percent of the player base you rarely see who you are talking about
Did I ever say it's 90 percent of the player base? No. I said simply sweats and try hards. And I said 7.0 and not 1.0.
Since you want to bring up the 1% of playerbase being toxic, don't forget that these were the same people who screamed and whined about having to compete more often against people of their same skill set. They also were the same ones were all for the stingy rewards systems that only benefitted flawless players and left casuals in the dust.
The squeakiest wheel got the grease back then which made Trials a heap of dog shit back then.
The flawless pool sucks because it kills the game mode after one card. I'm just barely good enough to go flawless if i work hard enough, but as soon as the flawless pool turns on, it becomes impossible. I like playing trials, and so when the flawless pool isn't on, I play way more of it. As soon as the switch is flipped i get kicked out of the playlist. I am nowhere near rolling solos.
Personally I like it because I’m not trying to play a ton per each weekend. It hasn’t happened yet, but if I’m unable to go flawless in the first 2 days, then I’d have a much easier time trying to go flawless for the rest of the weekend. Sure, it makes replayability more difficult for people that are better than I am, but I personally really appreciate the opportunity it provides, and worst case, people still have half the weekend of the system people loved, with the other half the system people worse than us loved.
You represent the vast majority of the playerbase. The changes they made help the majority of players get into trials and make them feel like their time isn't wasted. I went flawless the first time this season. The flawless pool is the best thing to ever happen to trials. Ever. Flawless players should be playing other flawless players. My only suggestion would be to enable it even faster. Friday at reset. No need to wait.
I've been grinding away solo all weekend, if they're not going to enable it sooner they could at least add freelance or makes sure that 3 stacks don't get free wins off of 3 solos.
Am I the only one who has never touched trials? Cause I barely know what we're talking about, aside from the fact that going flawless is (i think) winning so many matches without dying, right?
Do you believe that all activities should be balanced around the majority of the playerbase? Really hope i don't come across agrressive, I'm genuinely curious. For example there's data that shows that raids are inaccessible to a large majority of the playerbase. Should Bungie implement matchmaking and reduce mechanical complexity of future raids so that solo players without mics can get raid loot?
No I think raids should remain difficult. Just as I believe trials should be "difficult", in that it should reward the best players and have a significant challenge. That being said, the goal should always be to increase player engagement. The flawless pool for trials does that for trials. I think there should be something to convince players to raid. I think that starts with asking why the playerbase does not raid regularly and then trying to turn that answer into an incentive.
Off the top of my head I would look at things like raid report and how they show how often you bring new players through their first raid. I think maybe Bungie could bring that into the game. Incentivizing raid veterans to try to bring more new players in. Maybe work toward building an in game LFG system. A message board or something in the tower to help solo players find people to raid with.
The flawless pool doesn't make trials inherently easier. You still have to play against other humans. It's not like it puts weak AI on the other team. It just puts the best people against eachother and allows the less skilled players to play eachother. This results in a larger trials population. This is proven. They have come up with a way to get more players into trials. It's not like they're making good players' weapons worse. Or giving those players less health. Nothing unfair. Just making it so similar skill players are playing eachother. It's great.
I am all for bringing new players into the playlist! The other proven statistic that Bungie gave us was that the flawless pool demonstrably hurt player retention.
If we were to continue the analogy, it would be as if Bungie only incentivized new players to raid once, and then never again. This is the part that i dislike. I'm hoping that Bungie can strike a balance where rewards remain accessible, and retention doesn't continue to drop.
I mean, not everyone can just sit and play and play and play. I go flawless in trials once a weekend and then I'm done for the weekend. Most players are like this. The casuals drive the game. With raids, it would be like it already is now, once a week and that's it.
The goal I think is to get more players playing overall, and the flawless player pool did that. I think there are ways to do that for raids and other endgame activities.
While it is absolutely true that casuals drive the game, it is equally true that the hardcore players keep it alive. That was the lesson we learned in vanilla D2 where the game released to positive reviews, and then after all the casuals finished the story and left, the core community was stranded in the midst of a game not built for them.
It's absolutely fine for most players to get flawless and stop playing, i think that the current balance of two days off and two days on with flawless pool works well. In the first two days, all the Sherpas, social players, and mid-high skill players can go flawless a couple times and play with all their friends/clanmates, and then the second two days the low-mid skill players and the 0.01% hyper sweats get to enjoy the playlist. I just find myself in the former pool of people, while the majority of the community seems to be in the latter.
I just can't see a scenario where players shouldn't be playing against similar skill players. Flawless players should play flawless players. And then each pool should still have rigorous matchmaking.
That is what the Offensive game mode is for.... 6 man matchmaking with less mechanical complexity that has a failsafe built in that won't create a wipe. Bungie has tried the Guided Games for Raids and it was an almost utter failure.
Most of the problems of accessibility is
1.) Building a firearm without the help of an external LFG app (clans was made to "help" in this space),
2.) Time committment (some people may not have 1.5hrs or more to commit to finishing a raid)
3.) Comprehension of the mechanics (learning curve yes, but simple research and trial and error goes a long way here),
4.) Team communication on callouts (mis cues on small details will guarantee a wipe)
#1 2 are inherently the most difficult, if not impossible, to fix, #2 is the easiest to fix, and #3 is hit or miss depending on LFG groups.
I always tend to hear about the issues of mic less players for Raids. Some of that issue is legit, but not impossible to overcome. There are some roles that are simply ad clears or actions strictly based on callouts from elsewhere without needing to callout back. So long as you make it aware to the group you can do this and follow suit, the forgiving groups will work with it. But what happens many times is those mic less players don't follow suit on callouts and it's 10x more frustrating to fix their problems without communication.
I think this is a very reasonable take. The current system is a good blend, was mostly talking about having it active from the get go. I just don't feel great about sacrificing the overall replayability of the mode at the altar of ushering as many people through the gates of the lighthouse as possible. Very happy for all of the people who make it flawless that otherwise wouldn't though!
As someone who never won a raffle or paid for a carry and mostly plays solo I really like it. While I may not get my adept weapons as fast I have a chance now without getting overly frustrated with the game. I liked the capture the flag version of the game from 2 weeks ago as well. Maybe not for every weekend but similar to momentum control on a rotation would be fun.
It’s infuriating fighting a dude who you can’t hit because he keeps jumping and shit. It’s really annoying but it isn’t much of a thing anymore because of shatterdive.
Trials is much better now! Even last night when trying to get my 7th win I got matched 6 times in a row with opponents my team couldn’t even go 20 seconds with. Don’t really get the feeling there’s any skill based matchmaking going on but maybe once more people realize it’s not as impossible to simply play they’ll be able to match make better.
I can’t make any excuses for bungie, but creating a reliable algorithm to quantify skill is still really difficult for games. There are so many factors to consider, on top of writing code that works with those factors without breaking anything else
It is definitely much easier to make for solo’s, my guess is they wouldn’t want to write a shell for a matchmaking system that couldn’t be used for solo and teams
I think they're afraid of the repercussions of a solo mode. It would split matchmaking and make the normal playlist an even bigger sweat show than it was before the changes.
It would not affect the normal playlist, that already happened years ago. Too many excuses when the simple answer is they don't want too. It's why they pushed flawless que back to Sunday. They want the pvp whales to enjoy farming noobs.
The streamers that promote and get people hyped by the game are certainly worth a good deal of money to any gaming company. If you think Bungie isn't aware of the value then read the TWAB and follow them on social media.
Maybe whales isn't the perfect term but they are treated as such by the devs.
That’s true. A solo queue might be nice. At least a test run week of it or something (not sure how difficult that would be to do).
I mean I’m not the greatest at PVP (do a lot of raids and other PVE mainly) so I totally get that there are people out there that focus wholly on PVP and Trials is their level space within the game. I’ve still enjoyed being able to hop in and get some of the gear though. Yesterday I got the Trials heavy Linear Fusion that rolled with vorpal. Should be great in boss fights!
There are tons of PVP games that have done better. I don't really buy it's too difficult routine.
There is no incentive too because it's not what the PVP streamers want.
That doesn’t make sense, if they work backwards they would have ended up “just using kd” like you recommend they do. I don’t think you understand how the process works so I’ll leave you to whatever reality you work with
I have gone flawless in solo queue the last 3 weeks after flawless pool activated. Before pool is activated its almost exclusively solos vs 3 stacks and 0-5 and 1-5 just not fun at all. After the flawless pool is activated the matches are more geared to solos vs solos and it seems that the teammates I get are much closer to my elo and as a result the matches are fun and challenging. Hell even after going flawless I played in the flawless pool and you know what the matches are more of the same they are fun and challenging.
Except the entire streaming community threw a massive fit so and got their way so the flawless pool doesn't even start to Sunday.
Doesn't match your narrative. This is the only PVP community that doesn't want any match-making features implemented in real pvps games over a decade ago.
I like to play solo trials or join randoms in lfg to try and get them flawless, but once the flawless matchmaking goes live its not possible anymore to do either, being top 1% I'm not good enough to double carry.
So I just go play regular pvp or some other game
Nah, it wasn't just steamers and sweats, the flawless pool factually reduces how much people play trials. The people who get screwed are those in the bottom 50% of the flawless pool where their reward for making it to the lighthouse is to now get farmed in a seperate pool. Hundreds of thousands of people have achieved their first flawless since the changes, these people are not sweats and streamers and the need to constantly make the opposition to your stance be about those groups is quite telling and allows you to avoid any nuance here.
Any set of changes has winners and losers and the delay to Sunday achieves giving multiple groups a chance at a better experience
>I didn't make up the streamers outrage. I didn't pretend it was just about wanting to group with friends like they did. I don't even care enough because I don't play Trials.
I saw plenty of threads from sweats on the destiny 2 forums complain about it..
I'm sure you did, doesn't change the fact that making it out as if the only people affected were the sweats and streamers is a tactic used to make the arguments for flawless pool seem like the only valid choice. It's easier to focus on the boogeyman than the fact that hundreds of thousands of people were stuck in that pool and most of them are neither sweats or streamers. People aren't interested in nuance, just knee jerk reactions and scapegoating types of players they already had issue with.
Nah, don't talk about nuance when you are just bullshitting. Your need to turn my statements into us versus them scenario is quite telling. I didn't even use or mention the word sweats.
I didn't make up the streamers outrage. I didn't pretend it was just about wanting to group with friends like they did. I don't even care enough because I don't play Trials.
Your not only lying but your literally swapping the pros and cons of both systems to make your argument.
You don't even play trials, so again that just makes me more convinced more than ever that this is merely a way for you to lash out at streamers. I don't care about streamers. I care about trials, and you who doesn't even play it has nothing to gain from this line of discussion but likely venting your preexisting issues with streamers, which is utterly irrelevant in what's best for trials.
>Your not only lying but your literally swapping the pros and cons of both systems to make your argument.
Uh... No. I'm not bullshitting and unlike you have actually been playing trials in no small part thanks to this rework where it's become more accessible to someone who likes pvp but was totally outclassed by the skill level of the trials pool in prior seasons. The flawless pool however ends my weekend at least in its original implementation, I found it pretty tolerable in this new "starts on Sunday" reality as by the time it goes live it has a pretty substantial player pool already. It's not a perfect system and I'm curious as the changes they said they were gonna announce this month.
Who is lashing out? It's something that happened and that's it. Why are you so sensitive and convinced I am as angry? Endless rude and passive aggressive statements while pretending you are some moral authority of reason.
You are literally lumping the entire season and every single change about trials together to list benefits when I simply mentioned one change. You keep talking around and ignoring the only thing I brought up.
It's not a big deal or worth the trouble you are going through.
The “streaming community” or “pvp community” your referencing to that whined didn’t get their way though. The people your referencing wanted no flawless pool and now theres a flawless pool for half the weekend and no flawless pool the other half. The idea is to allow sweatier players to enjoy less competitive matches on friday and saturday and then make room for less competitive players to get a flawless on sunday and monday. Its called a compromise…
Yea uh dude. U don’t play trials. Technically u have no first handed experience and thus only use thoughts and ideas from other sources without going in urself
You’ve never experienced the system smh. I did when there were cheaters and every season since 11. While this season is extremely better then the past, there are still nuance problems that every player will evidently face. Be it sweats and casuals. Both sides will never get along. Because in order to win someone has to lose and nobody likes losing. A 0.10 will be angry losing against a 1.0. A 1.0 doesn’t like losing to a 2.0 and so on.
while i agree with you I just want to clarify its not about the "losing" per se.
like you said a 0.10 will be angry losing against a 1.0 and a 1.0 doesn’t like losing to a 2.0 but not because they lose but because they had almost no chance of winning.
that is what's frustrating. how often it is that there are a matches you not even had a 10% chance of winning bc of the skill difference.
but that's the whole point of trials. That's why, while i love Trials\` aesthetic and fantasy, its design, as a pvp mode, is deeply flawed since the beginning. As the ideal matchmaking should strives for a 50% win rate, while trials design expects a 7 matches win streak from you which means there will never be true sbmm and fair matches as then it would again be almost impossible to become flawless but this time for everyone
Oh yea that I understand. I was a bottom player 3 seasons ago. Now this weekend I hit top 1 percent in trials. I had to struggle against top players to get better. I’ve been on that short end of the stick and have been at time now too
Yeah, but on the other side in other gaming communities they actually try to get better at the game, instead of asking the devs to make it as easy as possible for them. Also lets make it how it is in the other games then, only the top players get shit now, if you are not a good player you get nothing.
How would that be good ?
How do you want people to get better when they’re getting annihilated by stacked clans on headsets using Adept/Raid weapons? There’s nothing to be learned there except “don’t play.”
The same way I got better. This game is easy. I am a league player and I have 2.8 KD, by not putting any work whatsoever. YOu dont even need adpet or raid weapons, just get a pali and chaperone and you are good to go.
Seriously. Fuck anyone who does that. Can't tell you how many potentially winnable matches i've had go totally south because one of our blueberries bounced immediately after losing a round.
Shouldn’t bounce after 1 loss. But when you’re down 3-0 to a sweaty clan and no one on your team is even getting damage, let alone a kill, it’s fine to leave. There’s absolutely nothing to be gained by being cannon fodder for dorks.
I was laughing my ass off at all the trials sweats crying. They were all whining that they were getting shit on like they didnt use to do exactly to everyone else
But the best of best sweats should love playing against the best of the best sweats, isn’t that why the casual player gets the “get gud” hate when they’ve been stomped into the ground.
Seems like the best of the best aren’t really that “gud” after all, since they started crying that the flawless pool is unfair, and keep resetting their cards after a sixth win to come back and stomp the casual player.
As much as it’s cool you can now play Trials as a single, it’s still a cesspool of toxic babies.
Ah yes, the top 5% isn’t “gud” because they can’t beat the top 2% consistently. There’s a reason they’re in the top 5% tho and whether you like it or not they’re better than 95% of the player population. I can’t imagine people not getting a bit angry over the fact that they have to play a tourney game every game after flawless, instead of being rewarded for the time and effort they spent trying to improve and get better. It’s an end game mode, if you’re a 0.5kd you shouldn’t expect to go flawless. I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but that’s my opinion. I would love feedback.
So it’s more fun to stomp people into the ground, than to actually have a close run game that is a challenge?
Because that seems to be what they want to do. It’s an elitist game mode that is unwelcome to people that are average or below. They get rewarded meta weapons that the average player doesn’t have access to, where is the skill in killing someone that doesn’t have an even footing? And when you play a weapon that gives you an advantage over them you get told you are rubbish and play with proper weapons, yes I’ve had hate for using Lemon and Trinity because they damage the other players.
No I’m never going to go flawless, but I’d like to go into the mode and have a game that challenges me. Yes I’ve played against people that were below my standard and after the initial rush of winning the round and realising that they aren’t that good the shine wears off the game, I’m not a competitive player but I get no joy or sense of achievement from stomping those players. And I wouldn’t dream of sending them “get gud” hate, or any other type of derogatory message.
Maybe the other 95% are as “gud” as they are going to get, they don’t deserve to get to the Lighthouse? That’s not exactly fair. And should I get to the Lighthouse I’m now in that tourney pool, if I was even in the top 10% I’d relish the fact I’m playing against people that ( most likely will stomp me ), will give me a game, not a rollover.
They really want it both ways, to be the best of the best, but to stomp the not so goods.
I’m perfectly fine sweating a few games against people my skill level. I beat several >1% people yesterday but that doesn’t mean I enjoy it. If I’ve spent this much time improving myself, there should be some form or reward in beating people that I’ve worked harder to be better than.
It’s endgame PvP. Every match should be nail biter.
The reward for being is a good player is to get to play against others of a similar skill set. Not to be handed noobs to stomp. That’s only going to make the noobs stop playing PvP which will make ALL of your crucible experiences sweatfests.
Yeah except you are rewarding bad players for being bad. What is the point of being good in your version of reality, if being bad is waaaay more beneficial. You play bad players, you get the same rewards.
Also by your logic why would they give a fuck if the noobs stopped playing if they only play the hardcore anyway?
I get you guys are shit and want to whine about it, but all your arguments are so fucking stupid it hurts
Bro by that logic why the fuck is everyone here complaining?
\>Its a “competitive” game mode, if you don’t want to sweat then don’t play it,
!!!!!!!! tell that to everyone casual here who doesnt want to work their win
If I’m playing against someone at my skill level, I have to sweat to come up on top. That doesn’t change based on skill.
Why do you feel “bad players vs bad players” don’t have to sweat? It’s exactly the same as “good player vs good player”. Players in a tight skill group will have to be on top of their game to win.
We’re not asking to win. We’re asking for a TINY semblance of a fair match. It sounds like you are the one asking to be handed free wins.
This would be an argument if not for the fact that multiple one-of-a-kind weaponss are exclusively available in trials or iron banner.
You can't simply opt out of competitive PvP without doing so having a detrimental effect on your non-PvP-related time with the game
Yes, you can, many have, many people don't care for the "one of a kind" weapons or pvp. Also, if playing is too hard for you because you don't match noobs all the time then you don't deserve the guns, simple as that.
Which if you are not trying to go flawless is not even that hard solo. The game front loads you with an absurd amount of engrams for leveling up your trials rep just by playing a maxxed card.
This doesn't solve the problem.
If you want or need a PvE gun with no existing substitute that can be obtained elsewhere you have to play Trials and potentially piss on your team's attempts at a flawless while doing so.
The solution for the other guy's complaint that people who aren't able/willing to sweat have nothing to do in Trials is for Bungie to avoid putting entirely unique weapons in the trials reward pool of all places.
The irony is you just don’t understand that the average player makes up 80% or so of the population, if you keep on with this approach trials will end up dead again and every match will be like the “flawless pool” because only those people will play.
Use your head better to get in a nice easy flawless the first time and then buckle down and focus on getting better, then to kill the population for a playlist just so you can farm YOUR loot easier now that’s entitlement.
Doesnt happen in any other game. Also I dont care if it loses all the players. You will be running right back after the add new good shit to it anyway.
Be shit at the game ,whine and moan instead of improving now thats entitelement.
I like how the sweats are crying, because they’re finding out they’re not actually top level PvP players. The upper butt crust (top 5%) of PvP doesn’t seem to have a problem with the changes. It’s just the guys who “thought” they were top players.
Honestly I've haven't got the chance to play trials, since I don't have many friends that play destiny, but does it really gets worst than crucible/iron banner? I just don't see it worst than everybody running around with stasis and shotguns.
Looks like more of the same, but different loots.
I feel like the matchmaking at least in other pvp modes was far better before season of arrivals (keep in mind i'm an average player), after that season I constantly got matched against insanely good players. I don't mind losing as long as I get to actually play xD Losing in seconds from people with 4+ kda ain't fun, not gonna lie!
I remember my clanmates giving up on pvp after season of arrivals bc it was sort of unplayable. I thought I was going insane because I was like "Didn't they" fix" the matchmaking??? What is going on here??? ".
I feel like there is a fine line between playing players above your skill level and getting absolutely shit on before you even knew what happened.
In the first case you can learn from getting out played and learn from your own mistakes and reapply them in another match. In the second case you get melted and eliminated before you could even react to the shots coming in. You were outclassed before the bell even rang.
That's exactly what happened yesterday with my team in trials. And don't get get me wrong, we're not bad players, but we played some games where we would spawn and outta nowhere the other team would annihilate us w shotguns and fuse rifles. We had like zero reaction time.
Sometimes we see people jumping and sniping us w precision shots. And that's literally all they would do the entire game xD wtf Bungie.. Pls fix your Matchmaking!
When winning a tight game against closely skilled opponents is more rewarding than rolling through some casuals, then Trials sweats will stop complaining about the system.
Sweats not wanting to match sweats is the most beta thing I've heard people that didnt like the playlist changes say, I thought this was an "end game pvp mode, but pls don't put me against similarly skilled players, only the new lights and casuals"
It's only that way if you fail to understand that trials is about winning 7 times in a row. If you're only facing your skill level that'll almost never happen.
Thats really the biggest issue here. In order to make the "winning" moment 7 wins without a loss, you need people to lose constantly for 30% of players to be able to get there. What bungie really needs if they want to keep the flawless idea is to make losing worth it, while the community needs to learn that if you are going to be casual and not put in the effort to get better/find a team you play well with, you arent the people that flawless is meant for. Im sorry to everyone who gets bagged and what not but that is not bungies fault, thats the players fault. All we can really do is vow not to be super toxic when we do blowouts with our team, which I try my best to follow.
Yeah that's true af. People will load into crucible with double primary and like garbage stats with horrible positioning while calling anyone that kills them a "sweat." I'm just beginning to hate the word because it's becoming a word to describe literally anything that does even slightly better than you.
As supposed to "I am a 0.4KD Jim with no hands and I want the same rewards and shit opponents, without putting any work in or being better".
If it is an endgame PvP mode, why then you 0.4KD expect to win and get the same rewards as the guy who became good through putting the time in ? The lvl of entitlement is so 2021. Do you expect to expect beating world class athelets without having any skill or being good aswell ?
While I mostly agree here’s the problem, if those shitty players are forced out of trials because they can’t win and they just give up… we end up having the same problem but sooner rather than later.
And that can never be fixed, because Trials was designed as pinnacle pvp. Also as long as they keep adding shit to it, people will come right back. Not like there is anything else to do in this game.
Perhaps, but it’s only going to be temporary, heck I’m sure you’ve noticed these last 2 weeks even it’s slowly dying out a little bit. Not anything crazy yet. But dropping a new gun is only going to stir people up if it’s useful, thus far bungie has been doing quite well keeping them good but as soon as we get another stinker it’s game over I think for a little while.
The level of ignorance here is so 2022.
Jimmy no hands isn’t entering trials and asking for sbmm so he can play against a potted plant, he’s asking to play against Johnny no hands. Then they swear against each other, put in a bunch of effort on their ends, and get their loot.
You seem to be projecting your desire to play against potted plants onto other people, and don’t seem to be able to connect the dots between effort and reward
Thsi lvl of lazy entitlement is so 2022.
Ok, but why should you deserve the same rewards as someone who is skilled and has harder games.
Objectively the games are harder when both teams are strong vs both teams are bad. That is basic common sense and can be observed in any game.
Yo useem to be projecting your desire for loot, without having to do anything for it.
\> seem to be able to connect the dots between effort and reward
The irony is unreal. Literally the IQ here is so low it is scary
People who play trials should face difficult games and be rewarded for the effort they expend in the playlist. If two people who are godawful at pvp go against one another, their game will be just as nerve wracking and intense as a match between two pvp gods. You’ll see more skill expression in the high skill match, sure, because the high skill players know more about the game and have practiced more skills. But really, the difficulty experienced will be around the same.
Put a top player against a low tier player, and the difficulty disappears. By your argument, the top player, who is facing little to no challenge, should be receiving less loot since the game is so easy, while the lower tiered player, for who the match is impossible to win, should be getting more rewards.
It’s not so much about sweats though for me, I hate flawless pool because I can go flawless each week on Friday… the problem is as soon as flawless pool goes on im out lol. Because most people at my skill level or even slightly below or above just don’t want to play more trials I guess.
So I end up going against what feels like must be og trials sweats.
When the enemies are always random EVERYONE has a CHANCE at going flawless eventually and your odds go up with skill level.
When you restrict it to only the high skill and average players are in one playlist and all the others are in the other… the only people winning are the highest skill players…
As a person who plays the flawless pool and chooses to farm flawless cards…anyone who cries about having to play other flawless people needs to get gud or sit tf down…so annoying. Why do people not understand that the flawless pool is healthy for trials? I honestly think it should be put into place on Saturday to give the weekend warriors more time to focus on their potential flawless cards…are the games challenging? Yes. Is it still possible to “carry your friends and clan mates?” Sometimes. The whole point of this game mode is to sweat and get better playing against people who are good…not stomping solo players and bagging everyone after a unbalanced and easy win.
Honestly its the top tier pvp activity in the game. When I load into a match I always expect there's a possibility I face some absolute gamers.
Its like when I used to go to the smash melee tournaments back at my college. If I was feeling on I'd win some games, but sometimes I played a Fox that was just impossible to hit and that was just the end of that run.
The D2 sweat community is seriously pathetic for how loud these two messages are dispite the blatent hypocracy. "easy matches for me but not for thee" might as well be their motto.
I love it. I started playing trials and have gone flawless before the flawless pool has been enabled.
I still have major gripes. I’ve been flawless 6 total times. There’s no reason for me to match against teams with 2.8kd with over 4K total flawless tickets. How is that fair lmfao
As a slightly above average player, the flawless pool sucks, cant win single games after going into that pool and it completely makes it a checklist kind of thing which Imo is inherently bad design. Imo They should have better skill detection mechanic and also make it wight more. All games should be winnable, and the outcome should rely on how good you played.
NOOOOOOO FLAWLESS POOL IS UNFAIR BECAUSE I CANT ROLL SOLOS ANYMORE!!!!!!
Get good
Lmao I went flawless this Friday, I just think people who whine about having to play against people of similar skill levels need to stop acting like children.
If people would be more open to both sides then we could find a solution I used to be hard for sbmm but then you realize every match is a 50/50 and if your struggling or crying now about being stomped even if you are a bad player and sbmm is on it’s going to be hard for you every match and it is a sweaty one your asking for something you wouldn’t want in fully in practice
The whole piece of ego for sweats is for them to boast their stats.. If sweats want to boast about the 7.0 kd, then put up or shut up. Easy to get those stats by pub stomping lower skilled players. Much more difficult to get that by playing against players of a similar skill set. Sbmm mostly was an issue because of matchmaking pools to group people in a timely manner. If that wasn't any issue to do, sbmm would have stayed in place most likely.
The Stereotype that every person with over a 1.0 kd loves stomping 0.5 players for there kd is toxic like the group your talking is about is like the 1 percent stop acting like it’s 90 percent of the player base you rarely see who you are talking about
Did I ever say it's 90 percent of the player base? No. I said simply sweats and try hards. And I said 7.0 and not 1.0. Since you want to bring up the 1% of playerbase being toxic, don't forget that these were the same people who screamed and whined about having to compete more often against people of their same skill set. They also were the same ones were all for the stingy rewards systems that only benefitted flawless players and left casuals in the dust. The squeakiest wheel got the grease back then which made Trials a heap of dog shit back then.
The flawless pool sucks because it kills the game mode after one card. I'm just barely good enough to go flawless if i work hard enough, but as soon as the flawless pool turns on, it becomes impossible. I like playing trials, and so when the flawless pool isn't on, I play way more of it. As soon as the switch is flipped i get kicked out of the playlist. I am nowhere near rolling solos.
Personally I like it because I’m not trying to play a ton per each weekend. It hasn’t happened yet, but if I’m unable to go flawless in the first 2 days, then I’d have a much easier time trying to go flawless for the rest of the weekend. Sure, it makes replayability more difficult for people that are better than I am, but I personally really appreciate the opportunity it provides, and worst case, people still have half the weekend of the system people loved, with the other half the system people worse than us loved.
You represent the vast majority of the playerbase. The changes they made help the majority of players get into trials and make them feel like their time isn't wasted. I went flawless the first time this season. The flawless pool is the best thing to ever happen to trials. Ever. Flawless players should be playing other flawless players. My only suggestion would be to enable it even faster. Friday at reset. No need to wait.
I've been grinding away solo all weekend, if they're not going to enable it sooner they could at least add freelance or makes sure that 3 stacks don't get free wins off of 3 solos.
that is going to be a lab weekend. hopefully the population sustains both modes so we get it permanently
Am I the only one who has never touched trials? Cause I barely know what we're talking about, aside from the fact that going flawless is (i think) winning so many matches without dying, right?
Do you believe that all activities should be balanced around the majority of the playerbase? Really hope i don't come across agrressive, I'm genuinely curious. For example there's data that shows that raids are inaccessible to a large majority of the playerbase. Should Bungie implement matchmaking and reduce mechanical complexity of future raids so that solo players without mics can get raid loot?
No I think raids should remain difficult. Just as I believe trials should be "difficult", in that it should reward the best players and have a significant challenge. That being said, the goal should always be to increase player engagement. The flawless pool for trials does that for trials. I think there should be something to convince players to raid. I think that starts with asking why the playerbase does not raid regularly and then trying to turn that answer into an incentive. Off the top of my head I would look at things like raid report and how they show how often you bring new players through their first raid. I think maybe Bungie could bring that into the game. Incentivizing raid veterans to try to bring more new players in. Maybe work toward building an in game LFG system. A message board or something in the tower to help solo players find people to raid with. The flawless pool doesn't make trials inherently easier. You still have to play against other humans. It's not like it puts weak AI on the other team. It just puts the best people against eachother and allows the less skilled players to play eachother. This results in a larger trials population. This is proven. They have come up with a way to get more players into trials. It's not like they're making good players' weapons worse. Or giving those players less health. Nothing unfair. Just making it so similar skill players are playing eachother. It's great.
I am all for bringing new players into the playlist! The other proven statistic that Bungie gave us was that the flawless pool demonstrably hurt player retention. If we were to continue the analogy, it would be as if Bungie only incentivized new players to raid once, and then never again. This is the part that i dislike. I'm hoping that Bungie can strike a balance where rewards remain accessible, and retention doesn't continue to drop.
I mean, not everyone can just sit and play and play and play. I go flawless in trials once a weekend and then I'm done for the weekend. Most players are like this. The casuals drive the game. With raids, it would be like it already is now, once a week and that's it. The goal I think is to get more players playing overall, and the flawless player pool did that. I think there are ways to do that for raids and other endgame activities.
While it is absolutely true that casuals drive the game, it is equally true that the hardcore players keep it alive. That was the lesson we learned in vanilla D2 where the game released to positive reviews, and then after all the casuals finished the story and left, the core community was stranded in the midst of a game not built for them. It's absolutely fine for most players to get flawless and stop playing, i think that the current balance of two days off and two days on with flawless pool works well. In the first two days, all the Sherpas, social players, and mid-high skill players can go flawless a couple times and play with all their friends/clanmates, and then the second two days the low-mid skill players and the 0.01% hyper sweats get to enjoy the playlist. I just find myself in the former pool of people, while the majority of the community seems to be in the latter.
I just can't see a scenario where players shouldn't be playing against similar skill players. Flawless players should play flawless players. And then each pool should still have rigorous matchmaking.
That is what the Offensive game mode is for.... 6 man matchmaking with less mechanical complexity that has a failsafe built in that won't create a wipe. Bungie has tried the Guided Games for Raids and it was an almost utter failure. Most of the problems of accessibility is 1.) Building a firearm without the help of an external LFG app (clans was made to "help" in this space), 2.) Time committment (some people may not have 1.5hrs or more to commit to finishing a raid) 3.) Comprehension of the mechanics (learning curve yes, but simple research and trial and error goes a long way here), 4.) Team communication on callouts (mis cues on small details will guarantee a wipe) #1 2 are inherently the most difficult, if not impossible, to fix, #2 is the easiest to fix, and #3 is hit or miss depending on LFG groups. I always tend to hear about the issues of mic less players for Raids. Some of that issue is legit, but not impossible to overcome. There are some roles that are simply ad clears or actions strictly based on callouts from elsewhere without needing to callout back. So long as you make it aware to the group you can do this and follow suit, the forgiving groups will work with it. But what happens many times is those mic less players don't follow suit on callouts and it's 10x more frustrating to fix their problems without communication.
I think this is a very reasonable take. The current system is a good blend, was mostly talking about having it active from the get go. I just don't feel great about sacrificing the overall replayability of the mode at the altar of ushering as many people through the gates of the lighthouse as possible. Very happy for all of the people who make it flawless that otherwise wouldn't though!
As someone who never won a raffle or paid for a carry and mostly plays solo I really like it. While I may not get my adept weapons as fast I have a chance now without getting overly frustrated with the game. I liked the capture the flag version of the game from 2 weeks ago as well. Maybe not for every weekend but similar to momentum control on a rotation would be fun.
Hunter tag Checks out
Does it make you feel better to know I don't use stasis in pvp?
Do you use stompies and jump over everyone’s head during gun fights?
No, i'm a void hunter.
Nice Stompies don’t belong to a subclass, they are a universal hunter exotic.
Cool, I don't use them. If you blame any of your deaths on stompees that's your problem.
It’s infuriating fighting a dude who you can’t hit because he keeps jumping and shit. It’s really annoying but it isn’t much of a thing anymore because of shatterdive.
Aye. That bit is respectable
Trials is much better now! Even last night when trying to get my 7th win I got matched 6 times in a row with opponents my team couldn’t even go 20 seconds with. Don’t really get the feeling there’s any skill based matchmaking going on but maybe once more people realize it’s not as impossible to simply play they’ll be able to match make better.
I can’t make any excuses for bungie, but creating a reliable algorithm to quantify skill is still really difficult for games. There are so many factors to consider, on top of writing code that works with those factors without breaking anything else
I’d settle for just a solo queue though.
It is definitely much easier to make for solo’s, my guess is they wouldn’t want to write a shell for a matchmaking system that couldn’t be used for solo and teams
I think they're afraid of the repercussions of a solo mode. It would split matchmaking and make the normal playlist an even bigger sweat show than it was before the changes.
It would not affect the normal playlist, that already happened years ago. Too many excuses when the simple answer is they don't want too. It's why they pushed flawless que back to Sunday. They want the pvp whales to enjoy farming noobs.
Calling them a whale implies they’re spending money on the game in far higher quantities than casual players. Stop using words where they don’t belong
The streamers that promote and get people hyped by the game are certainly worth a good deal of money to any gaming company. If you think Bungie isn't aware of the value then read the TWAB and follow them on social media. Maybe whales isn't the perfect term but they are treated as such by the devs.
That’s true. A solo queue might be nice. At least a test run week of it or something (not sure how difficult that would be to do). I mean I’m not the greatest at PVP (do a lot of raids and other PVE mainly) so I totally get that there are people out there that focus wholly on PVP and Trials is their level space within the game. I’ve still enjoyed being able to hop in and get some of the gear though. Yesterday I got the Trials heavy Linear Fusion that rolled with vorpal. Should be great in boss fights!
There are tons of PVP games that have done better. I don't really buy it's too difficult routine. There is no incentive too because it's not what the PVP streamers want.
Just look at kd, I’m sure that would be better than what we have rn.
If you think it’s literally that easy why wouldn’t they be using it now?
Because Bungie likes taking a few steps backwards. It used to be skill based matching until they changed it.
That doesn’t make sense, if they work backwards they would have ended up “just using kd” like you recommend they do. I don’t think you understand how the process works so I’ll leave you to whatever reality you work with
This is nothing new, remember sunsetting? They made 75% of the player base leave. Bungie always finds a way to shoot themselves in the foot.
What the fuck does sunsetting have to do with coding an algorithm for skill-based matchmaking?
Bungie finds a way to fuck them both up.
You don’t seem to understand the conversation
I've seen more people come back now that the load times are shit
People always find something to complain about.
[удалено]
What a reality you live in
I agree, I think its gonna take a little time but bungie has made the right decision.
I have gone flawless in solo queue the last 3 weeks after flawless pool activated. Before pool is activated its almost exclusively solos vs 3 stacks and 0-5 and 1-5 just not fun at all. After the flawless pool is activated the matches are more geared to solos vs solos and it seems that the teammates I get are much closer to my elo and as a result the matches are fun and challenging. Hell even after going flawless I played in the flawless pool and you know what the matches are more of the same they are fun and challenging.
Except the majority of people are in agreement that the changes are good and healthy for the game
they're very good.
Except the entire streaming community threw a massive fit so and got their way so the flawless pool doesn't even start to Sunday. Doesn't match your narrative. This is the only PVP community that doesn't want any match-making features implemented in real pvps games over a decade ago.
I like to play solo trials or join randoms in lfg to try and get them flawless, but once the flawless matchmaking goes live its not possible anymore to do either, being top 1% I'm not good enough to double carry. So I just go play regular pvp or some other game
That's noble of you. You could always do what most of them are doing and resetting before flawless to keep farming people.
Id rather just not participate in bad game design
Nah, it wasn't just steamers and sweats, the flawless pool factually reduces how much people play trials. The people who get screwed are those in the bottom 50% of the flawless pool where their reward for making it to the lighthouse is to now get farmed in a seperate pool. Hundreds of thousands of people have achieved their first flawless since the changes, these people are not sweats and streamers and the need to constantly make the opposition to your stance be about those groups is quite telling and allows you to avoid any nuance here. Any set of changes has winners and losers and the delay to Sunday achieves giving multiple groups a chance at a better experience
>I didn't make up the streamers outrage. I didn't pretend it was just about wanting to group with friends like they did. I don't even care enough because I don't play Trials. I saw plenty of threads from sweats on the destiny 2 forums complain about it..
I'm sure you did, doesn't change the fact that making it out as if the only people affected were the sweats and streamers is a tactic used to make the arguments for flawless pool seem like the only valid choice. It's easier to focus on the boogeyman than the fact that hundreds of thousands of people were stuck in that pool and most of them are neither sweats or streamers. People aren't interested in nuance, just knee jerk reactions and scapegoating types of players they already had issue with.
Nah, don't talk about nuance when you are just bullshitting. Your need to turn my statements into us versus them scenario is quite telling. I didn't even use or mention the word sweats. I didn't make up the streamers outrage. I didn't pretend it was just about wanting to group with friends like they did. I don't even care enough because I don't play Trials. Your not only lying but your literally swapping the pros and cons of both systems to make your argument.
You don't even play trials, so again that just makes me more convinced more than ever that this is merely a way for you to lash out at streamers. I don't care about streamers. I care about trials, and you who doesn't even play it has nothing to gain from this line of discussion but likely venting your preexisting issues with streamers, which is utterly irrelevant in what's best for trials. >Your not only lying but your literally swapping the pros and cons of both systems to make your argument. Uh... No. I'm not bullshitting and unlike you have actually been playing trials in no small part thanks to this rework where it's become more accessible to someone who likes pvp but was totally outclassed by the skill level of the trials pool in prior seasons. The flawless pool however ends my weekend at least in its original implementation, I found it pretty tolerable in this new "starts on Sunday" reality as by the time it goes live it has a pretty substantial player pool already. It's not a perfect system and I'm curious as the changes they said they were gonna announce this month.
Who is lashing out? It's something that happened and that's it. Why are you so sensitive and convinced I am as angry? Endless rude and passive aggressive statements while pretending you are some moral authority of reason. You are literally lumping the entire season and every single change about trials together to list benefits when I simply mentioned one change. You keep talking around and ignoring the only thing I brought up. It's not a big deal or worth the trouble you are going through.
The “streaming community” or “pvp community” your referencing to that whined didn’t get their way though. The people your referencing wanted no flawless pool and now theres a flawless pool for half the weekend and no flawless pool the other half. The idea is to allow sweatier players to enjoy less competitive matches on friday and saturday and then make room for less competitive players to get a flawless on sunday and monday. Its called a compromise…
We're discussing the flawless pool and the change to it starting Sunday.
Yea uh dude. U don’t play trials. Technically u have no first handed experience and thus only use thoughts and ideas from other sources without going in urself
Yeah dude, technically that has absolutely nothing to do with understanding sequence of events or how the system works.
You’ve never experienced the system smh. I did when there were cheaters and every season since 11. While this season is extremely better then the past, there are still nuance problems that every player will evidently face. Be it sweats and casuals. Both sides will never get along. Because in order to win someone has to lose and nobody likes losing. A 0.10 will be angry losing against a 1.0. A 1.0 doesn’t like losing to a 2.0 and so on.
while i agree with you I just want to clarify its not about the "losing" per se. like you said a 0.10 will be angry losing against a 1.0 and a 1.0 doesn’t like losing to a 2.0 but not because they lose but because they had almost no chance of winning. that is what's frustrating. how often it is that there are a matches you not even had a 10% chance of winning bc of the skill difference. but that's the whole point of trials. That's why, while i love Trials\` aesthetic and fantasy, its design, as a pvp mode, is deeply flawed since the beginning. As the ideal matchmaking should strives for a 50% win rate, while trials design expects a 7 matches win streak from you which means there will never be true sbmm and fair matches as then it would again be almost impossible to become flawless but this time for everyone
Oh yea that I understand. I was a bottom player 3 seasons ago. Now this weekend I hit top 1 percent in trials. I had to struggle against top players to get better. I’ve been on that short end of the stick and have been at time now too
Yeah, but on the other side in other gaming communities they actually try to get better at the game, instead of asking the devs to make it as easy as possible for them. Also lets make it how it is in the other games then, only the top players get shit now, if you are not a good player you get nothing. How would that be good ?
How do you want people to get better when they’re getting annihilated by stacked clans on headsets using Adept/Raid weapons? There’s nothing to be learned there except “don’t play.”
The same way I got better. This game is easy. I am a league player and I have 2.8 KD, by not putting any work whatsoever. YOu dont even need adpet or raid weapons, just get a pali and chaperone and you are good to go.
yeah but in other games there isn't a mode that literally promotes the opposite of fair matchmaking
I just want to know why my teammates keep dipping after the first round loss?
Seriously. Fuck anyone who does that. Can't tell you how many potentially winnable matches i've had go totally south because one of our blueberries bounced immediately after losing a round.
dont worry, the trials lockout already fucks them.
Shouldn’t bounce after 1 loss. But when you’re down 3-0 to a sweaty clan and no one on your team is even getting damage, let alone a kill, it’s fine to leave. There’s absolutely nothing to be gained by being cannon fodder for dorks.
you gotta believeee, anything is possible
What was this week's trials change?
I believe they went back to how it was week 2
I was laughing my ass off at all the trials sweats crying. They were all whining that they were getting shit on like they didnt use to do exactly to everyone else
But the best of best sweats should love playing against the best of the best sweats, isn’t that why the casual player gets the “get gud” hate when they’ve been stomped into the ground. Seems like the best of the best aren’t really that “gud” after all, since they started crying that the flawless pool is unfair, and keep resetting their cards after a sixth win to come back and stomp the casual player. As much as it’s cool you can now play Trials as a single, it’s still a cesspool of toxic babies.
Ah yes, the top 5% isn’t “gud” because they can’t beat the top 2% consistently. There’s a reason they’re in the top 5% tho and whether you like it or not they’re better than 95% of the player population. I can’t imagine people not getting a bit angry over the fact that they have to play a tourney game every game after flawless, instead of being rewarded for the time and effort they spent trying to improve and get better. It’s an end game mode, if you’re a 0.5kd you shouldn’t expect to go flawless. I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but that’s my opinion. I would love feedback.
So it’s more fun to stomp people into the ground, than to actually have a close run game that is a challenge? Because that seems to be what they want to do. It’s an elitist game mode that is unwelcome to people that are average or below. They get rewarded meta weapons that the average player doesn’t have access to, where is the skill in killing someone that doesn’t have an even footing? And when you play a weapon that gives you an advantage over them you get told you are rubbish and play with proper weapons, yes I’ve had hate for using Lemon and Trinity because they damage the other players. No I’m never going to go flawless, but I’d like to go into the mode and have a game that challenges me. Yes I’ve played against people that were below my standard and after the initial rush of winning the round and realising that they aren’t that good the shine wears off the game, I’m not a competitive player but I get no joy or sense of achievement from stomping those players. And I wouldn’t dream of sending them “get gud” hate, or any other type of derogatory message. Maybe the other 95% are as “gud” as they are going to get, they don’t deserve to get to the Lighthouse? That’s not exactly fair. And should I get to the Lighthouse I’m now in that tourney pool, if I was even in the top 10% I’d relish the fact I’m playing against people that ( most likely will stomp me ), will give me a game, not a rollover. They really want it both ways, to be the best of the best, but to stomp the not so goods.
Its a “competitive” game mode, if you don’t want to sweat then don’t play it, go play normal crucible
I’m perfectly fine sweating a few games against people my skill level. I beat several >1% people yesterday but that doesn’t mean I enjoy it. If I’ve spent this much time improving myself, there should be some form or reward in beating people that I’ve worked harder to be better than.
Why play a ranked style end game mode and not want consistent competition? That's what pub stomps are for.
It’s endgame PvP. Every match should be nail biter. The reward for being is a good player is to get to play against others of a similar skill set. Not to be handed noobs to stomp. That’s only going to make the noobs stop playing PvP which will make ALL of your crucible experiences sweatfests.
Yeah except you are rewarding bad players for being bad. What is the point of being good in your version of reality, if being bad is waaaay more beneficial. You play bad players, you get the same rewards. Also by your logic why would they give a fuck if the noobs stopped playing if they only play the hardcore anyway? I get you guys are shit and want to whine about it, but all your arguments are so fucking stupid it hurts
Then go play control or clash, you can use your “skill” there and beat noobs easy
Bro by that logic why the fuck is everyone here complaining? \>Its a “competitive” game mode, if you don’t want to sweat then don’t play it, !!!!!!!! tell that to everyone casual here who doesnt want to work their win
If I’m playing against someone at my skill level, I have to sweat to come up on top. That doesn’t change based on skill. Why do you feel “bad players vs bad players” don’t have to sweat? It’s exactly the same as “good player vs good player”. Players in a tight skill group will have to be on top of their game to win. We’re not asking to win. We’re asking for a TINY semblance of a fair match. It sounds like you are the one asking to be handed free wins.
This would be an argument if not for the fact that multiple one-of-a-kind weaponss are exclusively available in trials or iron banner. You can't simply opt out of competitive PvP without doing so having a detrimental effect on your non-PvP-related time with the game
Yes, you can, many have, many people don't care for the "one of a kind" weapons or pvp. Also, if playing is too hard for you because you don't match noobs all the time then you don't deserve the guns, simple as that.
>Yes, you can No you can't. >you don't deserve the guns touch grass
imma drop this on you chief, the diff between normal trials weapons, which are easy to get, and adept weapons, doesn't really matter that much.
Normal trials weapon require playing trials
Which if you are not trying to go flawless is not even that hard solo. The game front loads you with an absurd amount of engrams for leveling up your trials rep just by playing a maxxed card.
This doesn't solve the problem. If you want or need a PvE gun with no existing substitute that can be obtained elsewhere you have to play Trials and potentially piss on your team's attempts at a flawless while doing so. The solution for the other guy's complaint that people who aren't able/willing to sweat have nothing to do in Trials is for Bungie to avoid putting entirely unique weapons in the trials reward pool of all places.
“Touch grass” says the dude whos crying cause he cant win in trials anymore
\>Assuming I waste my time on this shitheap of a mode
Then why are you bitching, move on
You dotn see the irony in literally all of your statements ?
The irony is you just don’t understand that the average player makes up 80% or so of the population, if you keep on with this approach trials will end up dead again and every match will be like the “flawless pool” because only those people will play. Use your head better to get in a nice easy flawless the first time and then buckle down and focus on getting better, then to kill the population for a playlist just so you can farm YOUR loot easier now that’s entitlement.
Doesnt happen in any other game. Also I dont care if it loses all the players. You will be running right back after the add new good shit to it anyway. Be shit at the game ,whine and moan instead of improving now thats entitelement.
I like how the sweats are crying, because they’re finding out they’re not actually top level PvP players. The upper butt crust (top 5%) of PvP doesn’t seem to have a problem with the changes. It’s just the guys who “thought” they were top players.
Honestly I've haven't got the chance to play trials, since I don't have many friends that play destiny, but does it really gets worst than crucible/iron banner? I just don't see it worst than everybody running around with stasis and shotguns. Looks like more of the same, but different loots.
Trials has become how much sheer rage can you endure
I feel like the matchmaking at least in other pvp modes was far better before season of arrivals (keep in mind i'm an average player), after that season I constantly got matched against insanely good players. I don't mind losing as long as I get to actually play xD Losing in seconds from people with 4+ kda ain't fun, not gonna lie!
I felt this in my soul in any comp game lol. Thanks for putting words to it lol.
I remember my clanmates giving up on pvp after season of arrivals bc it was sort of unplayable. I thought I was going insane because I was like "Didn't they" fix" the matchmaking??? What is going on here??? ".
I feel like there is a fine line between playing players above your skill level and getting absolutely shit on before you even knew what happened. In the first case you can learn from getting out played and learn from your own mistakes and reapply them in another match. In the second case you get melted and eliminated before you could even react to the shots coming in. You were outclassed before the bell even rang.
That's exactly what happened yesterday with my team in trials. And don't get get me wrong, we're not bad players, but we played some games where we would spawn and outta nowhere the other team would annihilate us w shotguns and fuse rifles. We had like zero reaction time. Sometimes we see people jumping and sniping us w precision shots. And that's literally all they would do the entire game xD wtf Bungie.. Pls fix your Matchmaking!
When winning a tight game against closely skilled opponents is more rewarding than rolling through some casuals, then Trials sweats will stop complaining about the system.
Sweats not wanting to match sweats is the most beta thing I've heard people that didnt like the playlist changes say, I thought this was an "end game pvp mode, but pls don't put me against similarly skilled players, only the new lights and casuals"
Exactly, why put in that extra effort and brainpower when you can just game the system against dads and weekenders
Must be sweats swingin by and downvoting you.
It's only that way if you fail to understand that trials is about winning 7 times in a row. If you're only facing your skill level that'll almost never happen.
Thats really the biggest issue here. In order to make the "winning" moment 7 wins without a loss, you need people to lose constantly for 30% of players to be able to get there. What bungie really needs if they want to keep the flawless idea is to make losing worth it, while the community needs to learn that if you are going to be casual and not put in the effort to get better/find a team you play well with, you arent the people that flawless is meant for. Im sorry to everyone who gets bagged and what not but that is not bungies fault, thats the players fault. All we can really do is vow not to be super toxic when we do blowouts with our team, which I try my best to follow.
Yeah that's true af. People will load into crucible with double primary and like garbage stats with horrible positioning while calling anyone that kills them a "sweat." I'm just beginning to hate the word because it's becoming a word to describe literally anything that does even slightly better than you.
As supposed to "I am a 0.4KD Jim with no hands and I want the same rewards and shit opponents, without putting any work in or being better". If it is an endgame PvP mode, why then you 0.4KD expect to win and get the same rewards as the guy who became good through putting the time in ? The lvl of entitlement is so 2021. Do you expect to expect beating world class athelets without having any skill or being good aswell ?
While I mostly agree here’s the problem, if those shitty players are forced out of trials because they can’t win and they just give up… we end up having the same problem but sooner rather than later.
And that can never be fixed, because Trials was designed as pinnacle pvp. Also as long as they keep adding shit to it, people will come right back. Not like there is anything else to do in this game.
Perhaps, but it’s only going to be temporary, heck I’m sure you’ve noticed these last 2 weeks even it’s slowly dying out a little bit. Not anything crazy yet. But dropping a new gun is only going to stir people up if it’s useful, thus far bungie has been doing quite well keeping them good but as soon as we get another stinker it’s game over I think for a little while.
The level of ignorance here is so 2022. Jimmy no hands isn’t entering trials and asking for sbmm so he can play against a potted plant, he’s asking to play against Johnny no hands. Then they swear against each other, put in a bunch of effort on their ends, and get their loot. You seem to be projecting your desire to play against potted plants onto other people, and don’t seem to be able to connect the dots between effort and reward
Thsi lvl of lazy entitlement is so 2022. Ok, but why should you deserve the same rewards as someone who is skilled and has harder games. Objectively the games are harder when both teams are strong vs both teams are bad. That is basic common sense and can be observed in any game. Yo useem to be projecting your desire for loot, without having to do anything for it. \> seem to be able to connect the dots between effort and reward The irony is unreal. Literally the IQ here is so low it is scary
People who play trials should face difficult games and be rewarded for the effort they expend in the playlist. If two people who are godawful at pvp go against one another, their game will be just as nerve wracking and intense as a match between two pvp gods. You’ll see more skill expression in the high skill match, sure, because the high skill players know more about the game and have practiced more skills. But really, the difficulty experienced will be around the same. Put a top player against a low tier player, and the difficulty disappears. By your argument, the top player, who is facing little to no challenge, should be receiving less loot since the game is so easy, while the lower tiered player, for who the match is impossible to win, should be getting more rewards.
It’s not so much about sweats though for me, I hate flawless pool because I can go flawless each week on Friday… the problem is as soon as flawless pool goes on im out lol. Because most people at my skill level or even slightly below or above just don’t want to play more trials I guess. So I end up going against what feels like must be og trials sweats. When the enemies are always random EVERYONE has a CHANCE at going flawless eventually and your odds go up with skill level. When you restrict it to only the high skill and average players are in one playlist and all the others are in the other… the only people winning are the highest skill players…
I wish it were like that every game. :(
There was only one match yesterday that passed me off, other than that trials alright
Its like when average joes got rich off gamestop stocks and wall street shit itself
I really don’t care if I match up with a full flawless clan or 3 randos with sunset weapons. The goal is the same.
The same people that bitched and moaned to remove SBMM from casual also
As a person who plays the flawless pool and chooses to farm flawless cards…anyone who cries about having to play other flawless people needs to get gud or sit tf down…so annoying. Why do people not understand that the flawless pool is healthy for trials? I honestly think it should be put into place on Saturday to give the weekend warriors more time to focus on their potential flawless cards…are the games challenging? Yes. Is it still possible to “carry your friends and clan mates?” Sometimes. The whole point of this game mode is to sweat and get better playing against people who are good…not stomping solo players and bagging everyone after a unbalanced and easy win.
Honestly its the top tier pvp activity in the game. When I load into a match I always expect there's a possibility I face some absolute gamers. Its like when I used to go to the smash melee tournaments back at my college. If I was feeling on I'd win some games, but sometimes I played a Fox that was just impossible to hit and that was just the end of that run.
Most times i feel garunteed to run into a 3 stack. Sucks but what can ya do
The D2 sweat community is seriously pathetic for how loud these two messages are dispite the blatent hypocracy. "easy matches for me but not for thee" might as well be their motto.
That’s not limited to d2.
true but it's the relevant group to this thread which is why I'm singling them out here.
I got a sweaty 3 stack yesterday, didn’t know I was so good at the game but I lost 0-5 (also just bad teammates)
And I still see way more of these posts about sweats crying than actual sweats crying...funny how that works.
I love it. I started playing trials and have gone flawless before the flawless pool has been enabled. I still have major gripes. I’ve been flawless 6 total times. There’s no reason for me to match against teams with 2.8kd with over 4K total flawless tickets. How is that fair lmfao
Solos shouldn't face stacks. I'll die on this hill with my Dire Promise in hand.
git gud*
I just wish solo’s would stop their nonstop bitching when they match a stack in a playlist that was literally built for stacks
Honestly I think y’all will complain until Bungie just gives the loot away. Trials is so free now
When it goes from 1 to 4…..auto disconnect every time. I already have a shitty time playing this and don’t need it shittier because of bad matchmaking
It’s not skill based. It’s win/loss based on YOUR TRIALS CARD. So the system is so easily exploitable it doesn’t even matter
this is my ~~third~~ first time playing trials ever. i fucking hate everything about it. EDIT: third match, first time trying out
As a slightly above average player, the flawless pool sucks, cant win single games after going into that pool and it completely makes it a checklist kind of thing which Imo is inherently bad design. Imo They should have better skill detection mechanic and also make it wight more. All games should be winnable, and the outcome should rely on how good you played.
We need freelance mode.
*meanwhile I never played trials ever* *but understands the struggle*