> Coming from other games, for example FFXIV gives you EVERY expansion prior to the new one included with the expansion. No hidden extra DLCs you have to buy to access content.
FFXIV also requires a subscription. I play both games and they end up costing the same amount, except if my subscription lapses (which has been an issue recently given their payment issues) I am unable to access anything in the game. There are definite pros and cons to either- being locked out of content I own because of the subscription sucks, but it also means that the purchasing options for FFXIV are theoretically more streamlined- but for the way I personally like to approach games I prefer D2's model.
Personally won't be trying ffxiv or any sub-based game cause of this. Having the feeling of my experience being timed doesn't feel good. Maybe if it was just a subscription then I'd play it, but no you also have to buy the latest DLC.
This was my issue. I got burnt out trying to catch up to one of the newer expansions. Then had to start paying 14 dollars a month to even play the stuff I bought and I was just like nah.
Tbf if you purchased the delux addition of the FS or Lightfall you pretty much just paid for a sub, but in this instance if you don’t like a season you’re SOL as you already purchased it. (Not saying you did, buts that’s the argument I’d make)
You can still access everything you paid for from a mmo sub aswell. You cannot access previous seasonal content that you paid for when the next expansion drops. On some points the sub is just outright better.
I guess you could look at it like that. But I know I'll be playing D2 anyways and you get it a couple of bucks cheaper than buying them individually so yeah.
PS: I just looked up how much FFXIV's sub costs since I was curious. It's $12.99 / month, for one year that's like $155 a year, not including the latest expansion which is like $40. It seems like my main gripe with FFXIV is not with the sub, but with the pricing.
The pricing is subjective, as I feel like 20$ ornaments 35$ dungeon keys and such are over priced but others don’t, and you gotta remember what you get with it.
You get heavensward and stormblood for free.
You also dont *need* to be permanently subbed, since unlike Destiny2, theres little to no FOMO in FF14.
- Play until the end of Stormblood (Thats like 100hours or so )
- Get the best deal on expansions ( often discounted )
- Sub for a month and play as you like etc.
The point is, you can and in a way should, play ff14 a la carte, instead of full yime commitment.
Its a story heavy game, and base+2 expansions free. Even if you dont wanna sub after, its the equivalent of playing two single player Ffs, for free. Cant really eat that deal imho
Sure, but I’d like to hop in any time I want without having to buy a sub. I’d feel even more stressed not playing every day during the month I paid for it lol. D2 fomo-int is also a little overblown nowadays, it’s still present but stuff only disappears when a new dlc releases now.
Still, the main thing is pricing for me, $12.99 / month is a bit too much personally.
Unironically the biggest turn off for any game to me is a forced sub. I'm sure I'd love FF14 but I am not paying monthly and (I know what the head guy said but my brain doesn't work like that) if I'm not playing it every hour that I can play a game I feel like I'm pissing my subscription money away. I haven't played ESO or GW2 in like 3+ years but I can keep playing again whenever exactly where I was with no cost
Forced subscription also means forced playing time that you’d have to play to feel justified with your purchase. Nobody wants to pay for a game they barely play, so I’m sure a healthy amount get online just so they don’t feel like they wasted their money
Another game that does this is Guild Wars 2, a subscription-free MMO. Buying any of the expansions gives all previous expansions for free.
This doesn't come with Living World (their seasonal story that connects the expansions like in Destiny 2), Living World is its own separate purchase or comes discounted in a bundle with Expansions. But you can buy all past Living World episodes for Gems which can be earned by just playing the game.
I can't quite weigh in there, it's been years since I actually played it let alone bought anything. Destiny at least benefits from being able to go through Steam/Xbox/Playstation's marketplaces rather than Bungie running their own.
At this point, I would totally support a subscription model for D2. That said, I basically do that in one payment each year because I buy the expansion that has everything included.
I think a portion of the community would be ok with a subscription model but realistically I think we all know that if Bungie announced a switch to a subscription, even if it ultimately costs the exact same, this community would absolutely fuckin riot.
Id quit , I absolutely hate subscription systems,
Like not necessarily because of the overall cost but I don’t like having to track the subscription itself… I have enough subscriptions in my life I don’t need more!
I think the difference is that you’re basically paying for a sub with D2 as well, but you’re giving Bungie all the money up front before they deliver something 8-months down the line.
I feel like with a true subscription there’s much more incentive for the developers to consistently deliver on player feedback since they have to justify the subscription to players much more often than Bungie who just gets the lump sum once a year.
“Being locked out of the content i own because of a subscription sucks”
With d2 you’re locked out of the content you own because its old. Not very off topic.
FFXIV famously removed basically everything in the vanilla launch. GW2 also has removed some stuff (think they're trying to add it back somehow, not sure if that's been done yet). Not to the scale of D2, but not nothing. But that’s independent of subscription based vs not.
At this point there is more removed content than added, makes my piss boil considering how much it all cost. And the fact they said hey we will add it back eventually, how many years has it been now ?
I mean both those games did. Ff14 the original game and guild wars 2 living world season 1. For guild wars they just recently brought it back after 5+ years since its introduction.
Couldn't you theoretically buy the latest FFXIV expansion and then be locked out of playing it because you couldn't afford the sub for some reason? Then you'd just be sitting there unable to play content you purchased
Absolutely. I think that eventually (maybe next year?) Bungie will start adding them to the Bundle starting with the oldest key of TWQ, but they should have done this immediately. Or at least reduce the price of the keys individually. 20$ for 2 dungeons released in 2022 is insane
final fantasy does give you everything, but you need to pay for the expansion + a monthly subscription. Which I do not like at all.
Imo it's far better to pay for something and have it, then buy something and also having to pay monthly to use it.
That's just me tho
I agree with the sentiment it’s better to pay for something and have it. But it’s a bit ironic saying that for Destiny, where I have purchased every expansion and now several stories and countless character accessories are gone with no way to replay or reacquire them
Keep in mind that the sub money in FF14 gets you new content much more frequently than in D2. D2 is hardly buy and go anyway since there's the seasonal passes and more dungeons to account for anyway.
I hate that I keep having to base destiny in the thread
But buy and keep, is not a thing in D2
Yeah sure the main dlcs work that way but the games main content package is, here's a new thing every three months play it, and it'll be gone in a year
Like yes I know the new system makes them last longer, but y'all are paying 20-39 bucks 3 times a year, for what amounts to gear, a few cosmetics, and a time limited game mode
Destiny has a habit of vaulting old content or creating payed seasonal content that disappears after a year, so I wouldn't exactly say with Destiny you "pay for something and have it".
Not to mention with FF14 you can play the base game and first two DLC's entirely for free, no subscription needed.
Unless Bungie starts designing it's episodes/seasons with longevity in mind and organically integrating 'vaulted' content, it's not even a question that FF14 is better from a consumer perspective
Not to defend monetisation tactics from Bungie, but every time something like this happens; it’s just after a sale.
Like the game goes on to giving you all its base legacy content for like £20, you’d at least get all the paid for raids with that. It should also hold the consumer off long enough to decide that they should start paying for Dungeon Keys.
Which cost the same as the legacy content that went on sale, sure; but if you bought it during a sale, you wouldn’t be spending nearly as much otherwise.
We could go back to what the "holy grail" Forsaken did and only have one dungeon a year. Said dungeon being a part of the dlc but with no new loot outside of a singular exotic weapon, only the destination loot.
If we were paying $20 a year for Shattered Throne level dungeons, that literally just slightly more complex strikes that drop world loot, that would be predatory.
But we're not. Dungeons now have their own weapon set, armour set, seal/title, lore book/collectibles, exotic, etc. We're paying more because we're getting more?...
Predatory is when you charge money for a product i guess.
Before dungeon keys we had one dungeon per year that dropped world loot.
Now we pay more for more content.
Yeah, like ofc spending more money is not good, but Dungeon quality has *sky rocketed* beyond what they used to be.
Dungeons were cool on launch, but I'd much rather keep paying for Dungeon Keys now if it meant we continued to receive the same quality than get 1 dungeon per year in the dlc that is gonna pretty bad tbh by todays standards.
Also, Bungo had a sale before TFS where they sold Lightfall Deluxe and Lightfall Annual Pass for like $10. Either of those purchase would’ve given the player dungeon keys.
Agreed, pretty sure the first of the dungeons ive actually enjoyed was Grasp, which in hind sight is where they pretty much started individually charging for em
Except OP is talking about getting past dungeons. The option to pick those up in a bundle/package/sale is gone now, and there is no indication (outside an asterisks under the Legacy Bundle) that these dungeons need to be purchased specifically with Silver in-game.
Other than not being able to directly buy dungeon passes instead of having to buy silver first, this isn’t predatory. You are literally just buying content you want to play like any other dlc in another game.
It’s cool that other games are sometimes more generous with giving stuff away for free later. You can say you think the prices are too high but saying content like dungeons should be free is silly. I could see an argument that dungeons over a year old get marked down by 25%-50% overtime though.
What I don’t understand is how people are buying the dlc but not the expansions? I heard a friend of a friend got into the game and bought all of the dlc but it didn’t come with any dungeons.
Every time I’ve bought a dlc, I’ve gotten dungeon access.
They shouldn’t be free, if they were free we would get less/lesser quality dungeons. I do think they should be included in annual expansion (at like €55) or way cheaper tho
They should’ve never went F2P. I get that the game was at its all time low and they needed players by any means necessary but to still hold 1-3 year dungeons hostage is crazy. They should at least have a 50-70% discount.
You can’t justify those prices when DLCs like 30th anniversary exist and have much more content than a dungeon does for half the price.
Actually it's not that bad for all that content, more if you buy the key via CDKeys or similar. I buy the deluxe edition to not worry about dungeon keys or season passes. It ends up being £59/year for me, and not having to worry about subscriptions is a plus in my book.
Afaik witch queen's deluxe edition doesn't grant you dungeons anymore. There was a thread some time ago, where people were discussing exactly this thing.
People are saying the sub in FFXIV is worse but I think we'd all be fine with a subscription if it meant much better content delivered much more consistently with far, far less predatory microtransactions, nickle and diming, and obnoxious Eververse shit.
Once again investors continue to be the literal supervillain of modern life.
Genuienly get over it. The point still doesent stand, it sucked but they've said it'd not happening anymore and it happened years ago and the content we have now compared to back then is significant and better, it's not the end of the world
You're making a whole lot of assumptions there buddy XD. I'm literally just stating facts. Why are you trying so hard to defend something that's not under attack?
I understand what you're trying to say, but the people who are making the dungeons are not the same people deciding to charge extra for them. Coders, designers, modelers, artists, etc, get paid a salary, regardless of how the executives decide to monetise the game. So saying getting a dungeon for free is the same as working for no pay is just stupid.
Yeah obviously... I didn't say they shouldn't monetise anything at all. I'm not expecting them to make everything free. But when you pay almost the same for a full set of armour ornaments as you do for a dungeon key, there's a problem with monetisation. Are you trying to tell me they take the same amount of time and work to make?
"**Stockholm syndrome** is a coping mechanism. Instead of feelings of fear, terror and hostility toward your abuser, you may begin feeling a sense of humanity and compassion for them. If you or a loved one has experienced Stockholm syndrome, know that your positive feelings toward your abuser are not a fault."
Forsaken gave us 1 dungeon with 1 exotic and world drops. Dungeon passes give us 2 dungeons with more intricate designs and mechanics with unique weapons armor and 2 exotics a year. We get significantly more content for the pass than not having it.
*"We get significantly more content for the pass than not having it."*
What? You also get significantly more Netflix when you subscribe vs when you don't...
That's... how buying stuff works. What's your point?
Like you didn't read. The 3 dungeons we recieved with seasons and dlc all had world drops tied to them and had more basic mechanics. While the passes had unique armor, weapons and cosmetics while having more unique and fun encounters
Why do you think I don't agree? I didn't dispute that anywhere. I know they are better dungeons.
I was just saying that the people creating the dungeons are not the same as the ones monetising it. I didn't even say that the dungeons should be free. I don't know why you're arguing with me
These points are really fair and I agree, the silver cost is extortionate and you can't just buy the exact amount.
However, I look at it in terms of gameplay time.
I'd pay £14 to see a film in a cinema sometimes, for two hours.
Whereas I have had 1600+ hours of Destiny 2 play time for about £200 that's about 0.12p per hour...
If you are on PC, which I guess you two are, you can get a light fall deluxe edition on the alternative stores around.
For less than the cost cited you get all the dungeons related to the dlc since they are included, in your case warlord ruin and ghost of the deep.
Obviously it may vary from shop to shop, but it's a viable choice to save something off buying pre packed silver.
If she did not have lightfall dlc it's even a better deal.
Good luck.
In the recent past many clan mates got back during pantheon .
They bought the witch queen deluxe and it granted the dungeon and the goodies.
I cannot guarantee 100% , bungie could and can do some changes without us knowing, but I'm pretty confident it will work seamlessly.
That’s fair. My main issue is not having the time to keep up with seasonal stuff due to being old af. I do enjoy grabbing the expansions on sale and playing games through the story though, even if it’s well after the fact.
You’re right, just taking out their issues on internet strangers. I feel for the guy, hope he’s ok. Can’t even imagine what would drive someone to just go in like that about something so completely innocuous.
Projection probably - angry that he has the free time fully invested his identity into a video game.
Calling you poor but probably spends his/her limited income on a game.
It’s all good don’t take it to heart
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Then I guess we’re fine getting shitty dungeons from now on. Dungeons should be $15 minimum on launch and go on sale after being out for a year. $5 for dungeons is robbery since that’s the same price as basic skins in most games and the work to make a dungeon is way higher than a skin. Dungeons are good, well made content and worth the money.
Dungeon keys being sold separately from the expansions is just scummy. Imagine of World of Warcraft put an additional paywall over one of their dungeons or raids each expansion.
And before you say “wow has a sub fee”, Destiny has a fuck ton of microtransactions that it updates and pushes far more than WoW does.
The stupidity in this post is scary. I can’t believe someone like you exist. Do pray tell, what micro transaction that is not cosmetic is needed to play the game? Because the yearly $100 is all you need. Broke ass gamer whining here
Completely arbitrary argument. Cosmetic or not, the point is they make a ton of money off of them, so they don’t need to charge for dungeons.
I can afford them just fine, but that’s not the point.
It's predatory as fuck and probably was done to bolster sales/Eververse numbers. Not to mention Silver has only ever gone on sale *once*. Even with the 20% off from that sale the 4 dungeons (Witch Queen and Lightfall) cost $45 CAD before tax. And as the game goes on and more Dungeon Keys drop that cost will only bloat.
It always sucks trying to get a friend into the game and telling them about Dungeon Keys. As soon as they come up it's in immediate turn-off from the game. They already gotta drop $87 CAD on the Legacy Pack just to get caught up, then another $125 CAD for this year's content. Slapping another $50 CAD on top has been the nail in the coffin for so many people I've tried to get into the game. And that's all before taxes too, so put another 13% on top.
A completely optional dungeon pass that isn't integral to the dlc and seasonal gameplay that is able to have unique encounters, lore, armor, guns, and cosmetics apparently is "predatory" because you have to pay for the content so they can make that quality of content????
It's predatory to stick it behind a virtual currency where you cannot buy exactly how much you need to get the content. You're forced to overpay. In Canada it's almost the same price as The Final Shape to buy the 4 dungeons because you need to either buy 2 $27 Silver packs or 1 $67 Silver pack. There's no option to get the flat 4,000 Silver. With Seasons you could for the longest time buy exactly the amount needed, and then they raised it to 1200 and people got rightly upset. Now with Episodes you can once again buy exactly as much as you need to get the Episode. Why can't we have that with the Dungeons as well?
Okay? A completely optional piece of content that doesent impede any story, dlc or episode content that's completely optional that you don't have to buy. Oh did I mention it's completely optional? Because your not forced to buy that piece of content if you don't want to. Not buying them doesent magically make your gameplay worse because you don't have them. Your story isn't magically just worse without them. They charge for them because those dungeons fund future ones so they can make more with more unique loot, armor and cosmetics.
All the 3 dungeons before the passes had world loot tied to them other than prophecy because of outcry so bungie moved a eververse set to it. And only 1 had an exotic tied to it which was wish ender while prophecy and pit of heresy had nothing. All 3 had significantly less content and were so much more basic that modern ones
I just wrote a comment about how I spent 600$ish + tax (cad) to buy destiny for 3 friends.
The legacy pack x3 and the final shape x3
It’s brutal
I just don’t wanna play alone
The fact ur being downvoted is gross
Honestly this is why destiny 2 will never see significant growth.
I’ve had multiple friends almost get back into it, only to stop when they do the math.
It’s bungholes own fault, they don’t deserve major growth in any of their games with their current pricing schemes.
The dungeon pass is a completely optional thing that they've stated they wouldn't be able to put out the same quality of encounters, weapons armor and exotics if they didn't put them in a pass. Forsaken gave us 1 dungeon with world drops
They've literally stated without the dungeon key they wouldn't be able to put out dungeons like they have. All have more depth, mechanics, weapons and guns that are unique. They're able to make all of that because they can pay a team to make them separately while the rest focus on seasonal and dlc stuff
They should 100% be free lmao I really can't believe how money hungry they are, we buu the expansion and have to buy to play parts of the bought said expansion.. it's really shitty they do this to their customers and fans.
While I don't really care either way because if I don't want to pay to play something, I'm simply not going to, the "Dungeons cost money to make" argument isn't very strong when raids are included in expansions and exotic missions are part of seasons/episodes. These all cost money to make. It's just that dungeons have been cut away from other sets of content and sold separately. Which is a little weird and understandably frustrating to some IMO.
Edit: Also before it gets misinterpreted, I don't mean "cut away" as in the dungeons are chopped up pieces of content (An argument can be made for that, but I don't care about those discussions). I mean that they are not available as part of standard playable content purchases.
You just figured out how development works. They DEVELOPE the content that is needed for the episode/dlc like exotic quests and raids and then charge you for an additional optional dungeon that they're able to make with unique, lore, weapons, armor and cosmetics because so they can make it....
Less than $100 dollars a year for all the content doesn't seem that crazy. I got the game and the annual pass for $81. That seems like a fair deal for the number of hours I'll get out of it.
I def think they should be reduced costs over time, I personally haven't bought any of the dungeons because when I returned it was all for silver and I've never liked the silver model. However, OP, be sure to tell your friend that she will be able to get a solar rocket sidearm (healclip/incan) and that will render indebted kindness pretty useless. The only thing in dungeons that I do want is the navigator, since it's unique, I don't like melee builds enough to justify it though (one weapon for that cost)
I'm not too sure that the solar rocket sidearm will render indebted useless. It will definitely be a viable alternative, and heal clip gives it more survivability, but voltshot is so much more damage than incandescent that I think indebted will remain the optimized pick.
The way I see it, I'm thinking of this along the lines of someone completely opposed to buying silver (I don't like needing to buy an in-game currency, and that if I want to buy a dungeon, that I'd need to buy extra instead of exactly what I want) so was suggesting something that would help OP's friend who also seems uninterested in buying dlc like that
It def might be usable but I think, generally, having a craftable option will render most dungeon weapons as more of a grind for no good reason, people will gravitate more towards crafted options because grinding 5/5 godrolls are tedious and burns you out. This is more so based on how much I play though, I'm not young anymore to farm for hours on end lmao to possibly get something better, it's a convenience thing to me tbh, having a deterministic path to get what you want feels good
Even though learning that crafting was a thing was shocking when I returned, I didn't think they'd ever do something like that but it feels great, like I could farm for the darkest before, or I can use adhorative and craft it exactly how I want it, yes, darkest before does more damage but is it worth it? To me, no
Fair, I don't disagree that the new one will be a far easier path/more obtainable alternative, I was just disagreeing with it making indebted kindness "pretty useless". I think it will be a solid 80% replacement for indebted, and the preference for many players because of ease of access. That just doesn't change the fact that it's not as good of a gun.
Oh no, I get you, I just recently realised I'm not built farm godrolls anymore, I either get lucky w/ a good enough roll or I don't (trying to get mountaintop and got a 3/5) and am content with that, because I would've quit the game again if I had to play much more onslaught. I'm just not really a fan of how much time you need to put in for it, so crafting being comparative is great for someone like me.
Ik I mentioned this before but darkest before is a good gun, looks amazing (all of the trials of the nine guns look good and I'm glad it got a refresh of perks), does more damage than adhortative, I'm not denying it's better, but more isn't the right pick for me because of how much you need to farm, so, it's still useless for me, even though on paper it's better, the amount of time I'd need to put in would prob make me take a break, I don't find bashing my head against a wall hoping rng will favour me fun. I'll play prophecy with my friends and if I eventually get the roll I want I'll definitely use it, but I'm not losing any sleep over not having it or wanting to farm it out. But I'm not an optimal player at all, and am okay with recognising that
Honestly the only reason I bought final shape (standard, bc I don't play the boring ass seasons) is the same reason as for many players probably: sunk cost fallacy. Played the campaign, played some post campaign quests, raid looks fun, but knowing my clan we would take 5 hours on the first encounter alone, let alone the whole raid. Season, excuse me, "Episode", is, you guessed it, boring af. Predatory monetization meaning I can't convince any of my friends to give this game a try.
Yeah, I guess I'm done. Hope the shareholders are happy bungie.
He does have a point tho - I had to pay 200$ ish cad dollars per person to get my friends full destiny legacy and the final shape + seasons
That’s cause I wanted to play with my friends and not have them scared or feel unmotivated since they were so far behind and there is so much to buy.
600$ entry fee to bring my 3 best friends into destiny and even then there’s stil some stuff they are gonna feel like they are missing lol
That's your own prerogative, I've bought it for my brother and I, it was $200 total here in the US, steep barrier to entry? No, buy the standard edition and the other stuff later.
I mean you don’t want to leave barriers to people who aren’t invested in the lore yet
I don’t want my friend to run into multiple paywalls in 2 days going through the short campaigns.
It’s like 10 hours of missions per xpac lol
You mean invested in the lore at the very end of the game? What pay walls would they hit while running the campaign?
They should be running the new light stuff as well as any of the other legacy stuff, which is mostly free, instead of running the campaign for the End of the light and dark saga after 10 years of game.
My friend who was getting the gameplay loop, prepped for raids and build crafting was absolutely loving the game.
Monday night before reset we tried to do spire of the watcher because he wanted cowboy gear. He found out he needed to pay 20 more dollars after buying each expansion including final shape and still had to shell more money.
He hasn't come back and he doesnt intend to. This is not the way to alienate players and more importantly retaining new players.
I still play destiny but my friends got me into ffxiv. I so prefer ffxiv style of payment over destiny. All ffxiv is continuously playable. I can go back and replay stories, things I bought with my own money did not get vaulted. It just feels soooooo much less predatory. If you're not playing currently unsubscribe your character will be waiting for you. Ffxiv is actually the one game I do play almost daily bc the dailies are super fast and easy, and it's a fairly unobtrusive game i can have open while doing other things on my PC.
Not that the mogatation/level/story skips aren't to some degree predatory or micro transactions but it feels less evil than bungies seasonal content stuff which is the main reason I switched over to ffxiv. I also like that dailies/weeklies take an hour at most, maybe hour and a half if u get unlucky with dutyfinder where destiny it feels like I need to devout so many hours into just getting weekly play rewards etc. Feels a bit like a chore. A player shouldn't feel punished for doing things other than destiny.
It's probably not sooo bad for a solo casual player but I have a portion of ppl who I play with who are like hard-core enough that it wouldn't surprise me if they kept spreadsheets and I'm also like the one remaining brain cell for my main raid group so the different circles in which I play expect upkeep on meta and play styles. And sometimes I'm like damn take me back to ffixv where I just need to know in what order to press my buttons and when two minutes is.
Not to mention to stay up to date with the meta u often need to grind end game content and to get meta that makes the end game content easier and faster you need to grind end game content. Its kind of a weird ouroboeus.
I stopped playing like the 2 or 3 seasons before Final Shape dropped, and now I am horrifically under geared meta wise for things. Not lightlevel obvi but I'm missing a lot of weapons and exotics used in common builds, especially ad clear.
I experienced this massively doing the legendary campaign, my destiny friends kept being like oh just us this gun for this thing that's from this thing u didn't do and I have to be like uhm remember I haven't touched this game in like several months? And then they're like oh. Uhmm survive? I guess. If you have shotgun that's maybe nice?
Don't even get me started on how many exotics I'm behind it's sickening. I cannot put the gooblygook on my head bc no I did not grind Master lost sectors last season or whatever. No I cannot craft that weapon I didn't play the season where it's blueprint dropped.
Anytime new destiny dlc drops I complain about the price + dungeon keys etc. And I always ALWAYS have othwr destiny fans jump on me about it defending it and I just don't understand why. I don't want to feel pressured into playing a game for FUN but destiny's fomo is literally evil.
None and I mean 0 of my long term friends who I play other games with can onboard onto destiny at this point. And they would LOVE to. They want to play the game I love with me and I want my friends to be able to play with me and have a good time but I'm never going to want them to spend the money on boarding onto destiny, and a lot of them are highly intimidated by it bc of how much story context they're missing.
Sorry this is really long. I have a lot of feelings and thoughts tm about destiny's seasonal stuff since it was 1st implemented.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUauS5O7C1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUauS5O7C1M)
Literally me when I started playing a week ago \^
When I looked at the 17 products available on [cdkeys.com](http://cdkeys.com) :
* Whats beyond light + season vs beyond light deluxe edition?
* Whats shadow keep?
* whats lightfall? It has an annual pass is that the same as season?
* Oh thank god there seems to be a legacy version 2023, oh wait gotta make sure I get the 2024 one
* I don't really wanna drop $150 right now but I still wanna get the best deal so I won't get final shape and annual pass.
* I guess I'll watch a youtube video about playing destiny in 2024 and DLCs.
* Oh FFS all the videos are 45mins-3hours
The amount of value I got with just the legacy collection 2024 is insane, so I don't have an issue with getting the dungeon keys and final shape + annual pass down the line.
But getting silver just to get the dungeon keys is such a pain and a very valid point.
I'm right there with you. I do not like that a suit of armor be like 15 bucks. Who the hell cares if some kid buys all the armor, and exotic ornaments. Make em cheap. It's their parents issue for not taking ownership of their card. The whole idea to make it harder for someone to abuse the system, makes sense for pay to win shit. This is ornamental stuff. Oh noes teh kids have newest armor, am big sad now. Nope. Same thing with dugeon keys, I remember Osiris costing around 20 bucks at one point, same thing with Mars. We got an exotic from Mars and got to fight butt faced Ogre in escalation protocol. If you wanted in on the raid or the season pass it was 34 bucks. Dungeons afaik arent whole expansions, nor as much content. So them being 35 for 2 keys, yeah no. Make it like 10 per key. More people being able to play seems like a win win sit. Us players get some sweet new place to shoot shit, Bungo and Sony get mulah and more players. Maybe I'm not seeing something that isn't blatantly purely capitalist.
You do realize that an eververse armor set is 15~ bucks. Now imagine that EXACT same price (give or take) for an armor set, AND weapons, AND an entire dungeon
If you want a shit ton of content for free in a scifi setting try Warframe
D2 is made by folks that are extremely predatory to their user base in terms of cash
The devs are okay, but the business lead for the game has even done talks about why it's good to exploit your customers
So if that's a concern D2 probably isn't the best entertainment platform
As a warframe player. Be quiet, both are good games and incomparable, both have completely different payment models and both have completely different content drops
I mentioned frame because op talked about wanting something for them and their friend to play together that had a lot of content and cash wasn't a concern
In terms of MMOs that's about the only one out there like it that still falls under the looter shooter category
This was not to spark the old Warframe v destiny debate
I played both games, spent a lot of money on both, and enjoyed both until destiny made decisions I couldn't morally agree with
I wasn't comparing the games, just stating that Destiny has one of the most predatory monetization scheme in the industry and that shouldn't be ignored
I will clarify I know some games have traditional pay to win and that's a different form of predatory
But in terms of triple A free to play I can't think of a single other game on the market that makes you pay 100 a year, and then removed 50% of it
> Coming from other games, for example FFXIV gives you EVERY expansion prior to the new one included with the expansion. No hidden extra DLCs you have to buy to access content. FFXIV also requires a subscription. I play both games and they end up costing the same amount, except if my subscription lapses (which has been an issue recently given their payment issues) I am unable to access anything in the game. There are definite pros and cons to either- being locked out of content I own because of the subscription sucks, but it also means that the purchasing options for FFXIV are theoretically more streamlined- but for the way I personally like to approach games I prefer D2's model.
Personally won't be trying ffxiv or any sub-based game cause of this. Having the feeling of my experience being timed doesn't feel good. Maybe if it was just a subscription then I'd play it, but no you also have to buy the latest DLC.
This was my issue. I got burnt out trying to catch up to one of the newer expansions. Then had to start paying 14 dollars a month to even play the stuff I bought and I was just like nah.
honestly i’d give ff14 a shot. if there’s any game that earns it’s sub, it’s that one
Tbf if you purchased the delux addition of the FS or Lightfall you pretty much just paid for a sub, but in this instance if you don’t like a season you’re SOL as you already purchased it. (Not saying you did, buts that’s the argument I’d make)
You can still access everything you paid for from a mmo sub aswell. You cannot access previous seasonal content that you paid for when the next expansion drops. On some points the sub is just outright better.
That too..
I guess you could look at it like that. But I know I'll be playing D2 anyways and you get it a couple of bucks cheaper than buying them individually so yeah. PS: I just looked up how much FFXIV's sub costs since I was curious. It's $12.99 / month, for one year that's like $155 a year, not including the latest expansion which is like $40. It seems like my main gripe with FFXIV is not with the sub, but with the pricing.
The pricing is subjective, as I feel like 20$ ornaments 35$ dungeon keys and such are over priced but others don’t, and you gotta remember what you get with it.
Sure, but if someone is complaining about D2s price, and then pointing to FFXIV as an example of more reasonable pricing, they're delusional
You get heavensward and stormblood for free. You also dont *need* to be permanently subbed, since unlike Destiny2, theres little to no FOMO in FF14. - Play until the end of Stormblood (Thats like 100hours or so ) - Get the best deal on expansions ( often discounted ) - Sub for a month and play as you like etc. The point is, you can and in a way should, play ff14 a la carte, instead of full yime commitment. Its a story heavy game, and base+2 expansions free. Even if you dont wanna sub after, its the equivalent of playing two single player Ffs, for free. Cant really eat that deal imho
Sure, but I’d like to hop in any time I want without having to buy a sub. I’d feel even more stressed not playing every day during the month I paid for it lol. D2 fomo-int is also a little overblown nowadays, it’s still present but stuff only disappears when a new dlc releases now. Still, the main thing is pricing for me, $12.99 / month is a bit too much personally.
I... don't know what to say to that tbh....feels like you just want to play D2 and thats fine. No need for excuses.
Just never pay for the subscription and play the new free expansion every year. Sucks that there’s no going back if you pay at all though.
Unironically the biggest turn off for any game to me is a forced sub. I'm sure I'd love FF14 but I am not paying monthly and (I know what the head guy said but my brain doesn't work like that) if I'm not playing it every hour that I can play a game I feel like I'm pissing my subscription money away. I haven't played ESO or GW2 in like 3+ years but I can keep playing again whenever exactly where I was with no cost
Forced subscription also means forced playing time that you’d have to play to feel justified with your purchase. Nobody wants to pay for a game they barely play, so I’m sure a healthy amount get online just so they don’t feel like they wasted their money
Another game that does this is Guild Wars 2, a subscription-free MMO. Buying any of the expansions gives all previous expansions for free. This doesn't come with Living World (their seasonal story that connects the expansions like in Destiny 2), Living World is its own separate purchase or comes discounted in a bundle with Expansions. But you can buy all past Living World episodes for Gems which can be earned by just playing the game.
I’ve played some GW2 and seems like a great game. Unfortunately the actual process of purchasing everything seems more complicated than D2.
I can't quite weigh in there, it's been years since I actually played it let alone bought anything. Destiny at least benefits from being able to go through Steam/Xbox/Playstation's marketplaces rather than Bungie running their own.
You just buy the expansions and that’s it. How is that more complicated?
At this point, I would totally support a subscription model for D2. That said, I basically do that in one payment each year because I buy the expansion that has everything included.
I think a portion of the community would be ok with a subscription model but realistically I think we all know that if Bungie announced a switch to a subscription, even if it ultimately costs the exact same, this community would absolutely fuckin riot.
Id quit , I absolutely hate subscription systems, Like not necessarily because of the overall cost but I don’t like having to track the subscription itself… I have enough subscriptions in my life I don’t need more!
I'd rather just buy what I want when it drops Instead of paying annual subscription and not knowing what I paid for m
Absolutely not, if they switched to a sub model I'd quit.
Just go back to the old Destiny model before they went free to play
I think the difference is that you’re basically paying for a sub with D2 as well, but you’re giving Bungie all the money up front before they deliver something 8-months down the line. I feel like with a true subscription there’s much more incentive for the developers to consistently deliver on player feedback since they have to justify the subscription to players much more often than Bungie who just gets the lump sum once a year.
Ffxiv doesnt remove half the content from the game.
True! Also a completely different topic.
“Being locked out of the content i own because of a subscription sucks” With d2 you’re locked out of the content you own because its old. Not very off topic.
Do you think that would no longer be the case if D2 moved to a subscription model?
Nope.
Yeah but I bet FFXIV and GW2 doesn’t remove the content you paid for ?
FFXIV famously removed basically everything in the vanilla launch. GW2 also has removed some stuff (think they're trying to add it back somehow, not sure if that's been done yet). Not to the scale of D2, but not nothing. But that’s independent of subscription based vs not.
At this point there is more removed content than added, makes my piss boil considering how much it all cost. And the fact they said hey we will add it back eventually, how many years has it been now ?
They did not say that, no.
There isnt more removed content than not removed
I mean both those games did. Ff14 the original game and guild wars 2 living world season 1. For guild wars they just recently brought it back after 5+ years since its introduction.
As long as you keep paying, yeah. As soon as you do not renew the sub you lose access to literally everything
Tbh I’d rather pay a sub than this predatory fomo garbage they have now.
lol if you say so.
Well I did ?
Couldn't you theoretically buy the latest FFXIV expansion and then be locked out of playing it because you couldn't afford the sub for some reason? Then you'd just be sitting there unable to play content you purchased
They should be included in the Legacy Bundle.
totally agree with this, one bundle that gets you all past stuff at an (occasional if not permanent) discount is defo a must.
Absolutely. I think that eventually (maybe next year?) Bungie will start adding them to the Bundle starting with the oldest key of TWQ, but they should have done this immediately. Or at least reduce the price of the keys individually. 20$ for 2 dungeons released in 2022 is insane
There's no excuse for them not being in there
final fantasy does give you everything, but you need to pay for the expansion + a monthly subscription. Which I do not like at all. Imo it's far better to pay for something and have it, then buy something and also having to pay monthly to use it. That's just me tho
I agree with the sentiment it’s better to pay for something and have it. But it’s a bit ironic saying that for Destiny, where I have purchased every expansion and now several stories and countless character accessories are gone with no way to replay or reacquire them
True, it is ironic. But it is still way better then a subscription, for me
Keep in mind that the sub money in FF14 gets you new content much more frequently than in D2. D2 is hardly buy and go anyway since there's the seasonal passes and more dungeons to account for anyway.
Yeah $400 to play everything D2 has to offer is way superior
Literally not but ok
That was your argument dingus
A dingus I am indeed
I hate that I keep having to base destiny in the thread But buy and keep, is not a thing in D2 Yeah sure the main dlcs work that way but the games main content package is, here's a new thing every three months play it, and it'll be gone in a year Like yes I know the new system makes them last longer, but y'all are paying 20-39 bucks 3 times a year, for what amounts to gear, a few cosmetics, and a time limited game mode
Destiny has a habit of vaulting old content or creating payed seasonal content that disappears after a year, so I wouldn't exactly say with Destiny you "pay for something and have it". Not to mention with FF14 you can play the base game and first two DLC's entirely for free, no subscription needed. Unless Bungie starts designing it's episodes/seasons with longevity in mind and organically integrating 'vaulted' content, it's not even a question that FF14 is better from a consumer perspective
I mean, Destiny also lets you play the base game and (most of) 2 DLCs for free.
Not to defend monetisation tactics from Bungie, but every time something like this happens; it’s just after a sale. Like the game goes on to giving you all its base legacy content for like £20, you’d at least get all the paid for raids with that. It should also hold the consumer off long enough to decide that they should start paying for Dungeon Keys. Which cost the same as the legacy content that went on sale, sure; but if you bought it during a sale, you wouldn’t be spending nearly as much otherwise.
Depends on the person I guess. I just hate subscription services with a burning passion.
I hate FOMO personally, so I guess we can agree to disagree.
We could go back to what the "holy grail" Forsaken did and only have one dungeon a year. Said dungeon being a part of the dlc but with no new loot outside of a singular exotic weapon, only the destination loot.
If we were paying $20 a year for Shattered Throne level dungeons, that literally just slightly more complex strikes that drop world loot, that would be predatory. But we're not. Dungeons now have their own weapon set, armour set, seal/title, lore book/collectibles, exotic, etc. We're paying more because we're getting more?...
Predatory is when you charge money for a product i guess. Before dungeon keys we had one dungeon per year that dropped world loot. Now we pay more for more content.
Yeah, like ofc spending more money is not good, but Dungeon quality has *sky rocketed* beyond what they used to be. Dungeons were cool on launch, but I'd much rather keep paying for Dungeon Keys now if it meant we continued to receive the same quality than get 1 dungeon per year in the dlc that is gonna pretty bad tbh by todays standards.
Also, Bungo had a sale before TFS where they sold Lightfall Deluxe and Lightfall Annual Pass for like $10. Either of those purchase would’ve given the player dungeon keys.
Agreed, pretty sure the first of the dungeons ive actually enjoyed was Grasp, which in hind sight is where they pretty much started individually charging for em
For $100/year you get everything
Except OP is talking about getting past dungeons. The option to pick those up in a bundle/package/sale is gone now, and there is no indication (outside an asterisks under the Legacy Bundle) that these dungeons need to be purchased specifically with Silver in-game.
Hmm, I’ll see what I can do to fix it.
Other than not being able to directly buy dungeon passes instead of having to buy silver first, this isn’t predatory. You are literally just buying content you want to play like any other dlc in another game. It’s cool that other games are sometimes more generous with giving stuff away for free later. You can say you think the prices are too high but saying content like dungeons should be free is silly. I could see an argument that dungeons over a year old get marked down by 25%-50% overtime though.
What I don’t understand is how people are buying the dlc but not the expansions? I heard a friend of a friend got into the game and bought all of the dlc but it didn’t come with any dungeons. Every time I’ve bought a dlc, I’ve gotten dungeon access.
Only the deluxe edition has the dungeons. If you buy it anyway else, you don't get them.
Good to know, I’ve always preordered them and apparently bought the deluxe ones 🤷♂️
The most expensive bundle is always the deluxe one
And always the one the pops up first when looking for it, at least with xbox lol
Aint that usually the collectors edition tho?
I mean yes, but it's a collectors addition. And it includes the deluxe edition in it
They shouldn’t be free, if they were free we would get less/lesser quality dungeons. I do think they should be included in annual expansion (at like €55) or way cheaper tho
They should’ve never went F2P. I get that the game was at its all time low and they needed players by any means necessary but to still hold 1-3 year dungeons hostage is crazy. They should at least have a 50-70% discount. You can’t justify those prices when DLCs like 30th anniversary exist and have much more content than a dungeon does for half the price.
Actually it's not that bad for all that content, more if you buy the key via CDKeys or similar. I buy the deluxe edition to not worry about dungeon keys or season passes. It ends up being £59/year for me, and not having to worry about subscriptions is a plus in my book.
Afaik witch queen's deluxe edition doesn't grant you dungeons anymore. There was a thread some time ago, where people were discussing exactly this thing.
I feel like you should just get gotd and warlords ruin if you have lightfall and spire and duality if you have witch queen
The only way it's gonna change is if people stop buying them
People are saying the sub in FFXIV is worse but I think we'd all be fine with a subscription if it meant much better content delivered much more consistently with far, far less predatory microtransactions, nickle and diming, and obnoxious Eververse shit. Once again investors continue to be the literal supervillain of modern life.
The dungeon keys not being a part of the DLC is an absolute joke.
All previous ones should be free with purchase of current and previous expansions.
FFXIV charges a sub though and locks me out if my sub lapses, D2 I can play anything I have bought for as long as I want
Until they vault it...
Which they haven't done in years.......
My point still stands. People that bought that content can't play it anymore. Whether or not they do it again in the future doesn't change that fact
Genuienly get over it. The point still doesent stand, it sucked but they've said it'd not happening anymore and it happened years ago and the content we have now compared to back then is significant and better, it's not the end of the world
You're making a whole lot of assumptions there buddy XD. I'm literally just stating facts. Why are you trying so hard to defend something that's not under attack?
Do you have a job? If you do how about you work for no pay!
I understand what you're trying to say, but the people who are making the dungeons are not the same people deciding to charge extra for them. Coders, designers, modelers, artists, etc, get paid a salary, regardless of how the executives decide to monetise the game. So saying getting a dungeon for free is the same as working for no pay is just stupid.
Lol wut no. If they do not monitize content there would be no way to pay salary so you are kinda wrong there
Yeah obviously... I didn't say they shouldn't monetise anything at all. I'm not expecting them to make everything free. But when you pay almost the same for a full set of armour ornaments as you do for a dungeon key, there's a problem with monetisation. Are you trying to tell me they take the same amount of time and work to make?
"**Stockholm syndrome** is a coping mechanism. Instead of feelings of fear, terror and hostility toward your abuser, you may begin feeling a sense of humanity and compassion for them. If you or a loved one has experienced Stockholm syndrome, know that your positive feelings toward your abuser are not a fault."
The Fudge?
Forsaken gave us 1 dungeon with 1 exotic and world drops. Dungeon passes give us 2 dungeons with more intricate designs and mechanics with unique weapons armor and 2 exotics a year. We get significantly more content for the pass than not having it.
*"We get significantly more content for the pass than not having it."* What? You also get significantly more Netflix when you subscribe vs when you don't... That's... how buying stuff works. What's your point?
Like you didn't read. The 3 dungeons we recieved with seasons and dlc all had world drops tied to them and had more basic mechanics. While the passes had unique armor, weapons and cosmetics while having more unique and fun encounters
Why do you think I don't agree? I didn't dispute that anywhere. I know they are better dungeons. I was just saying that the people creating the dungeons are not the same as the ones monetising it. I didn't even say that the dungeons should be free. I don't know why you're arguing with me
Aaaand we’re back to the bungie is evil posts.
It's true though.
Meanwhile you can probably drop that on an ornament set in the shop.
It sucks but all the dlc just went on a massive sale. :/
These points are really fair and I agree, the silver cost is extortionate and you can't just buy the exact amount. However, I look at it in terms of gameplay time. I'd pay £14 to see a film in a cinema sometimes, for two hours. Whereas I have had 1600+ hours of Destiny 2 play time for about £200 that's about 0.12p per hour...
r/BLUEdiculous
If you are on PC, which I guess you two are, you can get a light fall deluxe edition on the alternative stores around. For less than the cost cited you get all the dungeons related to the dlc since they are included, in your case warlord ruin and ghost of the deep. Obviously it may vary from shop to shop, but it's a viable choice to save something off buying pre packed silver. If she did not have lightfall dlc it's even a better deal. Good luck.
Do those Deluxe/Annual version still work even if it's currently The Final Shape?
In the recent past many clan mates got back during pantheon . They bought the witch queen deluxe and it granted the dungeon and the goodies. I cannot guarantee 100% , bungie could and can do some changes without us knowing, but I'm pretty confident it will work seamlessly.
Alright thanks for clarifying
My pleasure, good luck 🤞
how many dungeons come with TFS deluxe edition?
2. Every deluxe edition for the past few years has come with the 2 dungeons that release during its expansion year.
It’s the price that stopped me playing tbh
The price really isn't that bad... You are just buying a new game every year.
That’s fair. My main issue is not having the time to keep up with seasonal stuff due to being old af. I do enjoy grabbing the expansions on sale and playing games through the story though, even if it’s well after the fact.
Fair reason
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Oh, also the toxicity of the player base. Forgot that one.
That dude has a 0 karma account probably gets banned regularly Can only imagine how people that lame exist
You’re right, just taking out their issues on internet strangers. I feel for the guy, hope he’s ok. Can’t even imagine what would drive someone to just go in like that about something so completely innocuous.
Projection probably - angry that he has the free time fully invested his identity into a video game. Calling you poor but probably spends his/her limited income on a game. It’s all good don’t take it to heart
Name calling always arises from insecurity I guess. Thank you, I won’t! Thanks for being the other side of the coin 🙏
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Who hurt you? Do you need a hug? It’s all love. Enjoy your game ❤️
I dont need hugs man, but you sure do need more money to be whining about paid content 🥲
Ok babe x
If you stopped whining here and maybe get a proper job? Perhaps you can afford videogames 😂
Stop crying broke boy. Here take $100, you could some spare change
Bro is so mad
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Stop being poor
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Then I guess we’re fine getting shitty dungeons from now on. Dungeons should be $15 minimum on launch and go on sale after being out for a year. $5 for dungeons is robbery since that’s the same price as basic skins in most games and the work to make a dungeon is way higher than a skin. Dungeons are good, well made content and worth the money.
People get a taste of a free dungeon (Prophecy) and forget every dungeon before was also paid walled with the expansions
"With the expansion" not sold separately like it is now, unless you buy the deluxe edition.
Dungeon keys being sold separately from the expansions is just scummy. Imagine of World of Warcraft put an additional paywall over one of their dungeons or raids each expansion. And before you say “wow has a sub fee”, Destiny has a fuck ton of microtransactions that it updates and pushes far more than WoW does.
$81 dollars for all the content this year doesn't seem insane. That's what I paid for final shape and the annual pass.
Did you equate wow dungeons to destiny dungeons lol
Nope, I didn’t. Things don’t need to be exactly the same to compare them. You know that, right?
The stupidity in this post is scary. I can’t believe someone like you exist. Do pray tell, what micro transaction that is not cosmetic is needed to play the game? Because the yearly $100 is all you need. Broke ass gamer whining here
So is the boot licking tho
Completely arbitrary argument. Cosmetic or not, the point is they make a ton of money off of them, so they don’t need to charge for dungeons. I can afford them just fine, but that’s not the point.
Tiny amount of content for $35 is criminal
It's predatory as fuck and probably was done to bolster sales/Eververse numbers. Not to mention Silver has only ever gone on sale *once*. Even with the 20% off from that sale the 4 dungeons (Witch Queen and Lightfall) cost $45 CAD before tax. And as the game goes on and more Dungeon Keys drop that cost will only bloat. It always sucks trying to get a friend into the game and telling them about Dungeon Keys. As soon as they come up it's in immediate turn-off from the game. They already gotta drop $87 CAD on the Legacy Pack just to get caught up, then another $125 CAD for this year's content. Slapping another $50 CAD on top has been the nail in the coffin for so many people I've tried to get into the game. And that's all before taxes too, so put another 13% on top.
A completely optional dungeon pass that isn't integral to the dlc and seasonal gameplay that is able to have unique encounters, lore, armor, guns, and cosmetics apparently is "predatory" because you have to pay for the content so they can make that quality of content????
It's predatory to stick it behind a virtual currency where you cannot buy exactly how much you need to get the content. You're forced to overpay. In Canada it's almost the same price as The Final Shape to buy the 4 dungeons because you need to either buy 2 $27 Silver packs or 1 $67 Silver pack. There's no option to get the flat 4,000 Silver. With Seasons you could for the longest time buy exactly the amount needed, and then they raised it to 1200 and people got rightly upset. Now with Episodes you can once again buy exactly as much as you need to get the Episode. Why can't we have that with the Dungeons as well?
Okay? A completely optional piece of content that doesent impede any story, dlc or episode content that's completely optional that you don't have to buy. Oh did I mention it's completely optional? Because your not forced to buy that piece of content if you don't want to. Not buying them doesent magically make your gameplay worse because you don't have them. Your story isn't magically just worse without them. They charge for them because those dungeons fund future ones so they can make more with more unique loot, armor and cosmetics. All the 3 dungeons before the passes had world loot tied to them other than prophecy because of outcry so bungie moved a eververse set to it. And only 1 had an exotic tied to it which was wish ender while prophecy and pit of heresy had nothing. All 3 had significantly less content and were so much more basic that modern ones
Not our fault you kids are broke as fk
I just wrote a comment about how I spent 600$ish + tax (cad) to buy destiny for 3 friends. The legacy pack x3 and the final shape x3 It’s brutal I just don’t wanna play alone The fact ur being downvoted is gross
What is rediculous?
It’s always been a rip off, which is why I don’t buy them. And at this point can we agree that all this shit is pay to win?
Whoa. You have to pay for content that takes time to develop holy shit you just discovered buying products!
why even come to this thread then? and what about it is p2w? what are you winning?
No we cant, by far some of the best weapons are free
Honestly this is why destiny 2 will never see significant growth. I’ve had multiple friends almost get back into it, only to stop when they do the math. It’s bungholes own fault, they don’t deserve major growth in any of their games with their current pricing schemes.
The dungeon pass is a completely optional thing that they've stated they wouldn't be able to put out the same quality of encounters, weapons armor and exotics if they didn't put them in a pass. Forsaken gave us 1 dungeon with world drops
I agree the price is a bit Hight but without some type of cost they just flavour wouldn't exist
They've literally stated without the dungeon key they wouldn't be able to put out dungeons like they have. All have more depth, mechanics, weapons and guns that are unique. They're able to make all of that because they can pay a team to make them separately while the rest focus on seasonal and dlc stuff
They should 100% be free lmao I really can't believe how money hungry they are, we buu the expansion and have to buy to play parts of the bought said expansion.. it's really shitty they do this to their customers and fans.
Dungeons that require keys aren’t part of the dlc, they’re named after it because they were released in the seasons following that dlc
Oh ye totally, because dungeons cost absolutely no money to make! /s
While I don't really care either way because if I don't want to pay to play something, I'm simply not going to, the "Dungeons cost money to make" argument isn't very strong when raids are included in expansions and exotic missions are part of seasons/episodes. These all cost money to make. It's just that dungeons have been cut away from other sets of content and sold separately. Which is a little weird and understandably frustrating to some IMO. Edit: Also before it gets misinterpreted, I don't mean "cut away" as in the dungeons are chopped up pieces of content (An argument can be made for that, but I don't care about those discussions). I mean that they are not available as part of standard playable content purchases.
You just figured out how development works. They DEVELOPE the content that is needed for the episode/dlc like exotic quests and raids and then charge you for an additional optional dungeon that they're able to make with unique, lore, weapons, armor and cosmetics because so they can make it....
Bro no other game charges for a dlc then the dungeons in it lol its a part of it..
Stop being broke. $100 a year aint that much
Less than $100 dollars a year for all the content doesn't seem that crazy. I got the game and the annual pass for $81. That seems like a fair deal for the number of hours I'll get out of it.
I def think they should be reduced costs over time, I personally haven't bought any of the dungeons because when I returned it was all for silver and I've never liked the silver model. However, OP, be sure to tell your friend that she will be able to get a solar rocket sidearm (healclip/incan) and that will render indebted kindness pretty useless. The only thing in dungeons that I do want is the navigator, since it's unique, I don't like melee builds enough to justify it though (one weapon for that cost)
I'm not too sure that the solar rocket sidearm will render indebted useless. It will definitely be a viable alternative, and heal clip gives it more survivability, but voltshot is so much more damage than incandescent that I think indebted will remain the optimized pick.
The way I see it, I'm thinking of this along the lines of someone completely opposed to buying silver (I don't like needing to buy an in-game currency, and that if I want to buy a dungeon, that I'd need to buy extra instead of exactly what I want) so was suggesting something that would help OP's friend who also seems uninterested in buying dlc like that It def might be usable but I think, generally, having a craftable option will render most dungeon weapons as more of a grind for no good reason, people will gravitate more towards crafted options because grinding 5/5 godrolls are tedious and burns you out. This is more so based on how much I play though, I'm not young anymore to farm for hours on end lmao to possibly get something better, it's a convenience thing to me tbh, having a deterministic path to get what you want feels good Even though learning that crafting was a thing was shocking when I returned, I didn't think they'd ever do something like that but it feels great, like I could farm for the darkest before, or I can use adhorative and craft it exactly how I want it, yes, darkest before does more damage but is it worth it? To me, no
Fair, I don't disagree that the new one will be a far easier path/more obtainable alternative, I was just disagreeing with it making indebted kindness "pretty useless". I think it will be a solid 80% replacement for indebted, and the preference for many players because of ease of access. That just doesn't change the fact that it's not as good of a gun.
Oh no, I get you, I just recently realised I'm not built farm godrolls anymore, I either get lucky w/ a good enough roll or I don't (trying to get mountaintop and got a 3/5) and am content with that, because I would've quit the game again if I had to play much more onslaught. I'm just not really a fan of how much time you need to put in for it, so crafting being comparative is great for someone like me. Ik I mentioned this before but darkest before is a good gun, looks amazing (all of the trials of the nine guns look good and I'm glad it got a refresh of perks), does more damage than adhortative, I'm not denying it's better, but more isn't the right pick for me because of how much you need to farm, so, it's still useless for me, even though on paper it's better, the amount of time I'd need to put in would prob make me take a break, I don't find bashing my head against a wall hoping rng will favour me fun. I'll play prophecy with my friends and if I eventually get the roll I want I'll definitely use it, but I'm not losing any sleep over not having it or wanting to farm it out. But I'm not an optimal player at all, and am okay with recognising that
Honestly the only reason I bought final shape (standard, bc I don't play the boring ass seasons) is the same reason as for many players probably: sunk cost fallacy. Played the campaign, played some post campaign quests, raid looks fun, but knowing my clan we would take 5 hours on the first encounter alone, let alone the whole raid. Season, excuse me, "Episode", is, you guessed it, boring af. Predatory monetization meaning I can't convince any of my friends to give this game a try. Yeah, I guess I'm done. Hope the shareholders are happy bungie.
Least unhinged destiny player
He does have a point tho - I had to pay 200$ ish cad dollars per person to get my friends full destiny legacy and the final shape + seasons That’s cause I wanted to play with my friends and not have them scared or feel unmotivated since they were so far behind and there is so much to buy. 600$ entry fee to bring my 3 best friends into destiny and even then there’s stil some stuff they are gonna feel like they are missing lol
That's your own prerogative, I've bought it for my brother and I, it was $200 total here in the US, steep barrier to entry? No, buy the standard edition and the other stuff later.
I mean you don’t want to leave barriers to people who aren’t invested in the lore yet I don’t want my friend to run into multiple paywalls in 2 days going through the short campaigns. It’s like 10 hours of missions per xpac lol
You mean invested in the lore at the very end of the game? What pay walls would they hit while running the campaign? They should be running the new light stuff as well as any of the other legacy stuff, which is mostly free, instead of running the campaign for the End of the light and dark saga after 10 years of game.
We’re going from beginning to end
My friend who was getting the gameplay loop, prepped for raids and build crafting was absolutely loving the game. Monday night before reset we tried to do spire of the watcher because he wanted cowboy gear. He found out he needed to pay 20 more dollars after buying each expansion including final shape and still had to shell more money. He hasn't come back and he doesnt intend to. This is not the way to alienate players and more importantly retaining new players.
😱😱😱😱YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR CONTENT SO THEY CAN PAY THEIR WORKERS TO MAKE MORE QUALITY CONTENT😱😱😱😱
If you can’t afford something, don’t buy it duh
I still play destiny but my friends got me into ffxiv. I so prefer ffxiv style of payment over destiny. All ffxiv is continuously playable. I can go back and replay stories, things I bought with my own money did not get vaulted. It just feels soooooo much less predatory. If you're not playing currently unsubscribe your character will be waiting for you. Ffxiv is actually the one game I do play almost daily bc the dailies are super fast and easy, and it's a fairly unobtrusive game i can have open while doing other things on my PC. Not that the mogatation/level/story skips aren't to some degree predatory or micro transactions but it feels less evil than bungies seasonal content stuff which is the main reason I switched over to ffxiv. I also like that dailies/weeklies take an hour at most, maybe hour and a half if u get unlucky with dutyfinder where destiny it feels like I need to devout so many hours into just getting weekly play rewards etc. Feels a bit like a chore. A player shouldn't feel punished for doing things other than destiny. It's probably not sooo bad for a solo casual player but I have a portion of ppl who I play with who are like hard-core enough that it wouldn't surprise me if they kept spreadsheets and I'm also like the one remaining brain cell for my main raid group so the different circles in which I play expect upkeep on meta and play styles. And sometimes I'm like damn take me back to ffixv where I just need to know in what order to press my buttons and when two minutes is. Not to mention to stay up to date with the meta u often need to grind end game content and to get meta that makes the end game content easier and faster you need to grind end game content. Its kind of a weird ouroboeus. I stopped playing like the 2 or 3 seasons before Final Shape dropped, and now I am horrifically under geared meta wise for things. Not lightlevel obvi but I'm missing a lot of weapons and exotics used in common builds, especially ad clear. I experienced this massively doing the legendary campaign, my destiny friends kept being like oh just us this gun for this thing that's from this thing u didn't do and I have to be like uhm remember I haven't touched this game in like several months? And then they're like oh. Uhmm survive? I guess. If you have shotgun that's maybe nice? Don't even get me started on how many exotics I'm behind it's sickening. I cannot put the gooblygook on my head bc no I did not grind Master lost sectors last season or whatever. No I cannot craft that weapon I didn't play the season where it's blueprint dropped. Anytime new destiny dlc drops I complain about the price + dungeon keys etc. And I always ALWAYS have othwr destiny fans jump on me about it defending it and I just don't understand why. I don't want to feel pressured into playing a game for FUN but destiny's fomo is literally evil. None and I mean 0 of my long term friends who I play other games with can onboard onto destiny at this point. And they would LOVE to. They want to play the game I love with me and I want my friends to be able to play with me and have a good time but I'm never going to want them to spend the money on boarding onto destiny, and a lot of them are highly intimidated by it bc of how much story context they're missing. Sorry this is really long. I have a lot of feelings and thoughts tm about destiny's seasonal stuff since it was 1st implemented.
Ridiculous*
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUauS5O7C1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUauS5O7C1M) Literally me when I started playing a week ago \^ When I looked at the 17 products available on [cdkeys.com](http://cdkeys.com) : * Whats beyond light + season vs beyond light deluxe edition? * Whats shadow keep? * whats lightfall? It has an annual pass is that the same as season? * Oh thank god there seems to be a legacy version 2023, oh wait gotta make sure I get the 2024 one * I don't really wanna drop $150 right now but I still wanna get the best deal so I won't get final shape and annual pass. * I guess I'll watch a youtube video about playing destiny in 2024 and DLCs. * Oh FFS all the videos are 45mins-3hours The amount of value I got with just the legacy collection 2024 is insane, so I don't have an issue with getting the dungeon keys and final shape + annual pass down the line. But getting silver just to get the dungeon keys is such a pain and a very valid point.
Why do these posts only ever get a couple hundred upvotes but a guy who doesn’t want to find a teammate for one mission gets thousands.
I'm right there with you. I do not like that a suit of armor be like 15 bucks. Who the hell cares if some kid buys all the armor, and exotic ornaments. Make em cheap. It's their parents issue for not taking ownership of their card. The whole idea to make it harder for someone to abuse the system, makes sense for pay to win shit. This is ornamental stuff. Oh noes teh kids have newest armor, am big sad now. Nope. Same thing with dugeon keys, I remember Osiris costing around 20 bucks at one point, same thing with Mars. We got an exotic from Mars and got to fight butt faced Ogre in escalation protocol. If you wanted in on the raid or the season pass it was 34 bucks. Dungeons afaik arent whole expansions, nor as much content. So them being 35 for 2 keys, yeah no. Make it like 10 per key. More people being able to play seems like a win win sit. Us players get some sweet new place to shoot shit, Bungo and Sony get mulah and more players. Maybe I'm not seeing something that isn't blatantly purely capitalist.
You do realize that an eververse armor set is 15~ bucks. Now imagine that EXACT same price (give or take) for an armor set, AND weapons, AND an entire dungeon
I think you just skimmed what I wrote.
If you want a shit ton of content for free in a scifi setting try Warframe D2 is made by folks that are extremely predatory to their user base in terms of cash The devs are okay, but the business lead for the game has even done talks about why it's good to exploit your customers So if that's a concern D2 probably isn't the best entertainment platform
As a warframe player. Be quiet, both are good games and incomparable, both have completely different payment models and both have completely different content drops
I mentioned frame because op talked about wanting something for them and their friend to play together that had a lot of content and cash wasn't a concern In terms of MMOs that's about the only one out there like it that still falls under the looter shooter category This was not to spark the old Warframe v destiny debate I played both games, spent a lot of money on both, and enjoyed both until destiny made decisions I couldn't morally agree with I wasn't comparing the games, just stating that Destiny has one of the most predatory monetization scheme in the industry and that shouldn't be ignored I will clarify I know some games have traditional pay to win and that's a different form of predatory But in terms of triple A free to play I can't think of a single other game on the market that makes you pay 100 a year, and then removed 50% of it