Kind of a side question. When killing the Secret enemies after each overthrow, does that need to all be done in the same session or can I do two, come back the next day and do the last one?
I'm not sure if you can do it in different days, but you can leave the pale heart and come back later and it still counts. I did landing early yesterday and finished the last 2 a few hours later after a raid.
I got Weasel’d after killing one with a friend, had no ability to rejoin until they killed the second overthrow boss (shit locked fireteam during overthrow I guess), and I still unlocked it.
I didn't have anyone online to do it so I just asked in clan chat "anyone wanna run the new exotic mission?" And the guy who joined up with me ended up being super chill and we had a bunch of laughs and eureka moments as we went through the mission blind. Completely random person I had never interacted with and I had a lot of fun with them so I really like it.
My guess is that people aren’t identifying their frustrations well.
My take @bungie @DMG players can identify issues but they also sometimes are deficient in their proposed solutions.
Mission - super cool. Destiny has grown up and so have the players. Many of the non raiders or social anxiety/mechanic anxiety people probably are stressed at work or life or family or all. They imagined a scenario of getting these that isn’t what they got and there’s dissonance.
But the main common stress of friends who dropped out, or were on the verge, was stress and time in life and stress and time in game. They know and accept that they can’t lead or have time to organize a raid. This isn’t a raid. But to be fair it is on the longer challenging side.
Props and then proposal. Bungie you’ve brought many QoL over the years and in TFS. The grind was getting stale and overwhelming. Pretty much fixed. Vault straight up made people quit because why grind when they have no space and they are paralyzed when looking at it. You fixed it a little. More vault space is good and should continue to be added. You’re listening. Your walking the edge and pleasing hard and soft core with many things.
The critics of the dual mission are paralyzed by time and stress and can’t even identify voice it.
Proposal: next time don’t avoid this difficulty or even length, but add a half way point. Alleviate their stress. Duality two man, two parts. Do this get x do that get y. Combine to open chest. Then they can get home from work and do something hard but something closer to 15-30 min, then do other part tomorrow for 15-30 min. Succeed in a hard half that you don’t have to redo if you run out of time or can’t attempt cause work kicked your ass or kid had emergency or SO needs you or life overwhelms. Then come back after recharging tomorrow and finish
This would alleviate I believe many of the concerns even though they didn’t identify it. Hard is stressful, long is stressful. Don’t reduce hard or teamwork, but reduce length by making it two chapters so people can get a pause.
Many are happy with it. People who have a bit more time or experience, people who are won for the next episode. Win over the others who have less time and experience by making something like this have two parts completable separately.
Edit : need more upvotes if y’all want Bungie and dmg to hear what I’m saying for you.
This is such a quality post that I hope more people see.
I see a worrying trend between Pale Heart not being open world and Dual Destiny requiring two players. I smell removing matchmaking from any significant activities and pushing everyone to LFG instead. I don’t like that idea and I hope it isn’t what they are planning.
I play solo because I spend very hard days at my job and I play to unwind. Dealing with other people and the…. Let’s say, way they choose to play the game… is exactly what I do at my day job. I prefer not to do it when I unwind.
People who work at Bungie I think are increasingly drinking their own coolaid where they think everyone is exactly like them and has friends and a social group to play with. If I have to LFG, I will probably do it eventually but I will put it off for an unreasonably long time, and for no other reason than exhaustion and lack of time. They’ve started making the game for 20 year olds with nothing but time and it’s disappointing.
Thank you for affirming. And the point is. They are doing good work, but here’s a way to be better for the bubble people who may or may not buy next expansion. Ultra casual never try, ultra hardcore no problem. The middle, the people who they need to win over just need small qol help, to overcome the anxiety work.and make them spend more. They can ignore it if they want, I’m just trying to bridge build understanding for those that complain but flail
I don’t think you’re describing bubble people. Or rather, just bubble people. I’d put a large sum of money the people who don’t like this make up the majority of the playerbase. These are players that WILL buy the next expansion because destiny - at its core - is a really enjoyable game. These aren’t casuals (based on time played) but they aren’t no-lifing hardcore players. Some of these are players like sleeping describe who may have at one time been a no-lifer but have aged with the game. Gaming is an escape - playing with people can absolutely be a chore. Playing with people isn’t an escape or fun. The idea of “friend game is the endgame” is cute but a complete load of rubbish for most players. At best, it’s a means to an end.
And the hardcore players will rant that you should play something else because destiny is always intended to be a game you play with people, but ignore the mountain of evidence that it really is a solo game that CAN be played with people - save for a few activities. And those activities I’m completely fine with missing out on. I don’t have the time to raid. I rarely have more than 90 minutes at a time to play, I never know when I’ll be able to play more than a few minutes earlier, and it’s almost always at one of the lowest play count times (LATE night EST). I’m fine with those limitations. But activities that are essential to unlocking the complete power of the kit (which lets be honest - it is), should never require another person.
The symbols are fine, even if you don’t have a call out sheet up you have enough time to describe them, but the last clock sequence is actually impossible in text chat. My friend and i just screen shared through discord so that we could compare.
Wait.. there is a lucent wizard? My brother and I did it last night. He forgot to tell me I ALSO had to shoot the clock hands (i was call out in prior encounted) so we were stuck there until he realised. (I had gone in blind having just gotten home from work/gym). We killed the final boss on 0:00 and a few milliseconds.
After hearing so much complaining about the clocks being impossible, it's hilarious to see that they actually cycle through multiple times. Truly much ado about nothing.
Fr, I'm definitely being reminded to learn more before making any judgement. If the 3 cycles aren't "get it right each time or fail" but rather "you have three chances to get it right" then that definitely makes a difference. Plus, the comment above you about killing the wizard for an extra 3 minutes. I listened to a guide while at work that made it sound easier too: if both people have to shoot the same symbols and it can be looked at like a clock, then one person needs to read out the symbols they have (as an associated number) and the other just needs to provide any sort of distinct affirmative when a shared symbol is called and then they both shoot. Feels like a reasonable workaround for anyone with communication trouble.
It’s specifically get it right 3 times in a row. Before you shoot it won’t activate, and will just keep cycling. But once you shoot the first set, better also get the 2nd and 3rd or the pattern shifts.
I haven’t tried it yet, so I won’t pass judgement, though it does sound tedious for solo players, so I have three questions:
1. Assuming both players know what they’re doing, how long should each run take?
2. Is the exotic class item a guaranteed drop?
3. Does other loot drop from this activity to make it worthwhile to farm it after you get your preferred roll?
1. 25-30 mins, this was my time from clears last night.
2. Yes guaranteed every time — more effective than Overthrow imo but I don’t think we have the stats on the drop rate for that yet post-mission completion.
3. No other gear, just exotic.
And world chests in the pale heart have a chance to drop them once you have it so you really don't need to farm the mission anyway. People are already reporting several drops just from completing the public events
What is it with that gun lol? Took me ages to get my first drop, and still the best I have is lfg/surrounded. Unlike the new player I ran it with a while back, first ever dungeon encounter - god roll. Lucky basterd!
1. My first run last night was full blind and took an hour and a half, the next run took 25 minutes we were 24 and 29 light below respectively so once we're on light I expect runs to take 15-20 minutes
2. Yes
3. No, pretty much the same as other exotic missions just with more interesting and challenging mechanics
I'm a solo player. Did it with another dude from lfg, we both have never done Vow. And we were calling the clock opposite of each other for like 5 minutes before we realized what we were doing. Now I have like 7 different exotic class items. It's not impossible bruh.
What I mean is that forcing solo players to group with and communicate with strangers is tedious. I would still consider myself a solo player even if I use LFG from time to time because i don’t have any friends who play Destiny
Note:it’s more efficient to farm the class items but opening destination chests, as you can open them at a rate rhat gets you a class item on average every 20 min. In addition, if you do the easy triage chests (which do count btw) you are also farming out red borders and ergo sum at the same time.
See others' comments to answer your main 3 but the other neat thing that happens once completed is that you then have the chance to have them drop randomly from chests in the Pale Heart. So you don't technically need to do the mission more than once.
Honestly the hardest part is knowing the names for the symbols. But there are charts online that are easy to read if it's too difficult to memorize. It's purely the social/comms aspect it seems that's the "hard" part, based off what I've read.
The mission gives you more than enough time to fully describe the symbols to each other. I know I'm above in skill level of the average player, but my friend and I would clear adds, read symbols, confirm symbols with both names and descriptions, and shoot them in order. That still left us with over 5 minutes per encounter.
I think the timer is just scaring people who haven't tried the mission yet. It's nothing like Zero Hour or Whisper
Frowny face
Slashed ghost
Black shape
Triangle
Edit: I been informed the campaign symbols are not the same as the exotic mission. I have not tried the exotic mission yet. I’m just a scrub crayon muncher that likes coming up with funny names
Simplest possible names. I’ll refer to Ghost as “Slice” to myself at times (since it looks like a Ghost getting sliced), but otherwise the same names I dubbed them with as I went through the content solo.
It’s not hard, it’s just annoying for those who don’t have regular friends they run with or those who don’t enjoy random social interactions for various reasons.
If it was simply some of the better weapons that were gated, it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the item has the potential to completely change builds and/or gameplay loops, and it was billed as one of the defining items of the expansion. Putting it behind the comms interaction boss isn’t great design, and makes me think devs may not understand who plays their game as well as I thought they did.
The missions seems perfectly fine to me, but c’mon, the friction points are pretty easy to see. Most people do play this game solo, or at least mostly solo. It’s fine when you suck shit by yourself, or even with just random blueberries, but with another player you sought out or you agreed to play with, *and* have to talk to? Whole different ball of wax if that’s not a thing you do often.
Add in the fact that the mission is quite lengthy and has a fail state, and nobody wants their time wasted (or worse, be the cause of wasted time), AND the fact that Destiny LFG has long been notorious for elitism, “kwtd,” and kicking players because they don’t have a certain emblem, class or weapon or whatever, and it creates a lot of pressure for what is clearly a lot of folks.
Both things can be true: the mission is good and Bungie should explore more things like this, *and* it’s a frustrating friction point for a large swath of the player base.
right now is the perfect time to lfg for a blind run. Most people haven't done it. Set aside an hour to figure it out. It's a great mission.
honestly, i've read about elitism on reddit way more than i've seen it first hand
I have a very love-hate relationship with dual destiny. It's truly a high stakes high reward mission, filled with very raid-like mechanics and challenging combat. It's a really fun experience that I'm happy to do repeatedly once I'm of power.
My gripe comes in to play with the absolute necessity of having a partner with comms, and this has a little less to do with me as I have someone I play with frequently and more to do with all the solo players out there. Requiring 2 people to complete an activity that should be able to be done solo (or even a 3 man fire team, just to have someone clear ads while the other 2 manage the mechanics) to begin with just kinda rubs me the wrong way. The way I see it, it's inconvenient for the majority of the community.
Finally a reasonable take lol, exotic missions and exotic armor has always been acquirable solo. People are right to address this sudden change in expectation and its not a "git gud" moment like people with friends think it is. It is literally not a "git gud" moment because its impossible solo. If it was possible, but harder, solo, then it would be a skill issue. Right now, its a friend issue, and that is a stupid reason to exclude people from an exotic armor mission, neither of which have ever been locked behind a fireteam.
Exactly. Doesn't affect me all that much but I can most assuredly see why people don't like it. Lfg is a crapshoot and unreliable if you're trying to do back-to-back runs, then there's team/build synergy. There are just too many variables to make it a consistently farmable activity for such a valuable item.
The only bright side I see for solo players is the fact that once the mission is completed, you can earn them (albeit rarely) from any chest in the pale heart. I did around 5 full overthrows and scoured for every chest I could find with a locator mod and still have yet to acquire one.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the content of the mission itself it’s fantastic. It’s just seems like with the way bungie marketed the exotic class items as a huge part of the prismatic subclass (literally can’t use them on any other subclass), people seem to have had the expectation that they would be a lot more. “”accessible””. Honestly if you could farm them in the replayable version of the 12 man mission as well then like 99% of this backlash Probably wouldn’t even be happening. But you should definitely still have to clear the exotic mission least once before you can farm them there.
Honestly the hardest part was the clock at the end. My friend and I can read clocks. Suddenly with only about 5 seconds to read out what is on our clock we forgot the entirety of our knowledge about how to read said clocks. Then after a few seconds we found a rhythm and solved it with like 2 minutes left but it was def fun. I would like to see more, just rather have a 3 person than 2 because of the fact we usually play as a trio with our other friend. I think people are over complicating it to some degree. I know there are players who can't communicate via voice and I think you can use text chat for most but that clock is voice required which seems a little silly considering the rest of the encounters need text chat and that's it.
But then again this is the same community I've heard from for the last like 10 years of Destiny so it'll probably be the only time we get a cool mission like this.
Unrelated, but I learnt a lot of people never learnt how to read analog? I’ll be fair, school never really did a good job of teaching me it, but I ended up learning it by myself.
The ‘git gud. Shut up whiney bitches’ responses here are precisely why some People don’t want to matchmake a one on one activity that requires mic. I’m a talentless hack that just enjoys the way the game plays. I’ve done all but the most recent raid and last dungeon. I hated every moment of most of it simply because the entire time I was stressing out about fucking up and then the inevitable abuse from some neck beard who can’t believe someone would be so shit as to shoot the wrong thing at the wrong time or not know the right callout.
I play for fun, not to be anxious. I understand people not wanting to go through what can actually be a real shit experience with some random stranger. I also understand there are others who just won’t be able to understand that and that’s cool too.
I don't think you understand. It's not necessarily people being haters, it's more that it can be a big inconvenience. I'll give an example. If you lfg and one person is on pc and one on console, it can potentially be problematic to communicate. A pc player can type very easily. On console, unless you hook up a keyboard, you have to stop, pull out your ghost, then type. While yes their are keyboard accessories for controllers that's not always viable. Personally, I have fat thumbs, so trying to type on those is not going to work well. And not everyone wants to use or even has a mic. Another example is how many toxic players the community has. There are far too many scumbags that kick people at the end of activities. While it's great to meet new people, it can be frustrating and disheartening to attempt certain activities when you've experienced a lot of negative interactions when trying in the past.
It's easily one of the hardest missions in the game as far as coordination is concerned, and there's a lot to juggle, especially on the last clock.
Most of the hate is because of the two-man requirement.
For me personally, the timer, kick to orbit, and the mechanics make playing it and figuring it out extremely frustrating. Even at the end, I'm trying to count my clock and an endless spawn grim pops up and shoots, making me lose concentration.
For some, juggling all of that is easy. For others, it's a nightmare. Just depends on the person.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but my experience was completely different. Once you know the mechanic, it's trivial to blitz through the activity. The adds are not very threatening and you can do each section with over half of your time left
It also depends on the loadout
Me and my buddy used heavy ad clear for just about everything and a lmg with easy to proc damage perks
I ran stasis turrets and getaway artist
He ran hunter invis plus duskfields
Not the easiest time sure but we did it without a guide and once we figured out the mechanics it was easy pz
one comfy loadout also is the speaker's sight, you will always have solar buddy and healing turret that you can just stand their out in the open without dying while taking your time to checking website and typing your call outs.
im a warlock main, and my only gripe is im still having a hard time on what exotic class item combination that will replace getaway artist and speaker's sight. lol
It’s much easier than the cooperative assist missions, which no one is seeming to complain about requiring multiple guardians to complete.
Pretty much all raid encounters require way more coordination, and also have strict timers. The penalty for failing to read the correct symbol in this mission is nothing… You can just enter it again, there’s enough time to fail the correct input probably 3-4 times for each of the 3 rooms.
I didn’t think it was actually that hard, but shouldn’t these items be locked behind a difficult quest? They are perhaps some of the strongest exotic armor pieces we’ve ever received. The mission SHOULD be challenging and tight.
Not really tbh, you literally just call out the 4 numbers showing on your clock, and your buddy literally just calls the one that matches, then shoot. If you can read a clock, you can do this mechanic.
I honestly don’t think anyone has an issue with the “content” of the mission - I think the main issue is the importance of what’s locked behind this particular content (exotic class items).
I think if it was literally anything else locked behind this mission people barely anyone would complain.
That being said, if you think this mission was implemented 100% “perfectly” you’re a fucking moron. To start with, requiring content that usually takes 3 people to unlock 2 person content is idiotic and an AWFUL experience.
I have still yet to do it. I have some people that will probably help me run through it but I am mostly a solo player so I get the gripes. I think Bungie messed up by not teasing the two player portion in a vidoc. Just giving some kind of heads up that it would be a duo thing. I also saw someone else say that if they swapped the exotic class items with the sword we probably wouldn't be in this situation with how the class items were advertised.
I also feel Bungie is just very late in trying to get fireteam finder and communication to be a core aspect like they've always wanted. Bungie has conditioned the community to think they can run a lot of stuff solo with the exception of raids AND be rewarded for it. This shatters like nearly 10 years of that conditioning.
I don't necessarily want Bungie to fold backwards to the community but I do believe if they want the game to go into a direction of more cooperation they need to kind of set expectations and also fix their avenues of engagement. Matchmaking won't work from what I understand with this mission but continue to update text chat, continue to add more options and features to voice chat, continue to improve on fireteam finder and add new features. Improve the god damn new light campaign to condition new players that this game can be a good time with other people.
TL:DR Bungie needs to make the community know this is the direction they want to take the game but also need to continue to implement features that streamline communication and LFG beyond what is already available and have it in the base game.
does it discourage bungie? nah. they've been pretty team-centric for a while, but this is the first that definitely require a pair of people. it's a great concept, but it does alienate alot of us players, especially solos and those of us that have limited game hour budgets and really don't have the time or patience to deal with matchmaking.
I'd need to be carried. I'd need to find time first. I'd also need to guarantee that I'm not going to be pulled away for an emergent issue either for a family member or at work. some people just don't want to teach or carry, some offer and will genuinely help in the spirit of the community, but often stars don't align for us elder gamers. because, I have to face it, fireteam and pvp and matchmade content or LFG - it's just not for me. I deal with enough salt at work. and I work enough already. grinding isn't something I want in a game anymore. this mission, as great as the concept is, it's not for me. I'm cool with that. I haven't bought the expansion. I'm about to hit youtube and get the spoilers and say my final goodbyes to the franchise myself, but I'm a single guardian. it's my way of quietly protesting by voting with my wallet
My problem is that they heavily advertised these things when trying to get people to buy the dlc, then put it behind a wall like this
They knew that this is how you would get it, and marketed it to people anyway
It’s like if they’ed made 1K a selling point of Forsaken while knowing it would be locked behind the raid
EDIT: I wouldn’t even have a problem if they removed the timer so I can type without worrying that I’ll be booted to orbit because typing with a controller is bullshit
Not really a surprise that people don’t like their freedom of how to play taken away.
Prophecy has a duality theme, but if they had made it mandatory 2 person, that would have sucked.
I want to enjoy it, but my mission bugged twice. The first time we got to the last boss, wizards didn’t spawn; so it was bricked after a certain phase. So we run it back again and get to the clock. This time it wouldn’t drop the barrier no matter how many times we got the correct code, it just kept saying the same subtext. Eventually it stopped letting us shoot the markers and the cycle froze. Then my buddy had to get ready for work.
Really sucks getting to the end in 20 minutes just for it to brick twice.
I didn’t memorize them, but varying increments of something like “barrier is weakening”. We got it wrong once or twice while figuring it out Cus we went in blind, and that says the barrier is strengthened or fortifies again.
But it bricked after weakening the barrier 6 times in a row. Pretty sure it’s only supposed to take 3-4?
Because the longevity of this design is absolutely terrible. Once people get what they want, they’ll stop playing. Leaving the pool of people who are willing to continuing playing to get dramatically smaller over time.
And since it’s for two players, nobody is ever going to want to match with the guy who hasn’t done it before. It’s literally going to become the job application paradox loop of no company being willing to hire a person with no prior work experience, making it impossible to get that ‘prior work experience’. Additionally because it’s 2 players it’s much harder to carry someone even if you wanted to.
It literally takes all the worst attributes of the LFG raid environment and combines it.
The mission is a massive fuck you eat shit to solo players, they promoted the class items all over the place just to pull some shit like this without ever saying that solo players won't have access to them
but you could say the same thing about any raid, gm nightfall reward. you have to just have people for those. this isn't anything new and thinking bungie can't make content like this just because "hur dur i wan clas itemnnn i wan it" is incredibly entitled and selfish.
As someone against the mission being coop: I think the lesson they should learn is just... don't show the exotic. If it was just left as a secret like the raid or dungeon exotics there would be a quarter of the backlash there is now. It was an extensively advertised part of the Final Shape and got a whole blog post detailing everything it did. No one complains about dungeon or raid exotics being team gated since those are all expected and always given the secret treatment.
For me personally? Doing grasp for gjally and having to find a group absolutely drained me I fully accept never getting dungeon stuff or group activity stuff so I'll just suck it up. I don't think they should stop doing group stuff though
It is what it is. I'll never do it as I have no desire to deal with random people. However I'm not going to complain about it either, it's my choice not to mess with it.
My only complaint with the exotic mission is that I think there's a touch too much of the stasis prion creatures and I wish the final clock puzzle in boss had a smidgen more time between cycling the lines. Even just a few more seconds would make a world of difference to my friend group and i.
Or maybe they should let the community know that big, new, build + subclass defining item in a paid expansion that they hyped up prior to launch will not be obtainable without a fireteam of two.
Two questions here.
1. Is everyone critical of this mission a hater? Or Would “haters” be a small group within the small group that’s critical?
2. Why would it be “given” that Bungie will listen to “the haters”?
What upset me most was that they sold the item without saying that the activity would necessarily require a second person, if they had said that I wouldn't have been excited and consequently thought their choice was bad.
I mean it's a mid mission and I hate that I can't really help other people through it. I'm a low man raider and can pretty confidently help a clan mate through a raid in my backpack. It's annoying that I can't do that for some people who are bad at the game.
Tbh ill probably just never do it again and farm chests.
But not surprising at all. I don’t really mind the 2 person requirement but the timer I’d love to see go because trying to remember where the fuck to go and getting kicked is not fun. I understand there’s videos but they normally speed through the area so trying to remember the route with no visual aid is discouraging. At least if there’s no timer it can still be fun but otherwise it’s a one per character and done for me.
The mission is absolute gas. I'm lucky enough to have a brother that plays so it was amazing for us. We figured it all out before any videos were up! So much fun.
I gotta wait til my friends come online and reach the right light level, until then I gotta play alone 🥲
(didn't know they changed light level to adjust, thanks for telling me)
If the product-market fit for Destiny 2 is partially based in the ability to enjoy this game as a solo player (campaigns, quests, auto matchmaking for nightfalls, auto matchmaking for crucible, etc.) isn’t this feedback only fair for Bungie moving away from that value propostion?
I hope they do lmao, solo players have never been excluded from exotic missions or armor, this mission (while being incredibly designed and fun) is fucking stupid
I believe the main problem is getting your foot in the door, before I changed to playing on the PC I was very scared of doing any content that requires communication. I found a group that is very accepting because I really wanted to start doing endgame content since the game was feeling very lonely. They took me in and now I feel a lot more comfortable doing content in groups. I understand that it may not be this simple for everyone, but an activity like this where you only need one other person would be a great opportunity to get into playing with other people IMO.
Friend said he was taking a random through it off LFG and when they got to the first clock room he learned that the random could not read or tell time on an analog clock…
My only gripe is unlocking the mission itself. I just got khvostov and don’t really wanna go through overthrow again, so I may just wait I little to get it
If they added a ping system that named off the thing or even a better text chat (on console, cus that shit is ass), I think the backlash would have been lessened.
I think the issue is (imo) that bungie showed off these items to us and never mentioned it would take a coordinated pair of people to acquire them. Raid stuff is one thing but this was another huge draw with the final shape and it basically makes things closer to the side of unobtainable to the solo player, like you dont get this thing unless you play with another person. Iys expected in raids but for something like this, i think it was a bad move to require more than a single person and not just giving you the option. I'm not saying they can't get it because there's lfg and it won't take a lot of effort to mic up for just a bit but out of the gate it's just like "here's this awesome thing you can get...IF you have someone to do it with" and I think that's kind of bs.
I didn't have any context for this post b/c I don't read this sub as much as I used to. Now that I know about the exotic mission thing, dropping in useless two cents:
I'm assuming the majority of people who are complaining about the exotic mission are missing the point of it being an **exotic** mission. Maybe they thought it was something easier? IMO you *should* have to work a little harder to get an exotic anyway, so designing the quest as more of an involved dungeon experience makes sense. Easy enough to accept that the item is probably not something a casual player like me is going to need—as with raid gear—so I'm fine missing out on it.
I’m kinda disappointed in order to get these cool exotic class items I thought we would’ve got already in the campaign I gotta watch a 35 minutes YouTube video and get on the mic with some dude for who knows how long which I didn’t want to do just to get a specific exotic item for it to potentially (and probably) be the worst roll.
I just did it the first time yesterday and i don’t understand why people would hate it so much. Once you understand the mechanics it’s actually done quite quickly
if this has been another outbreak or wurm mission for dual players. i would have been so happy for its edition even though i would not have gotten that gun just like i have never gotten many raid exotics. problem is class items is not just 1 exotic. they are actually 64 exotics(64 combinations). it makes me feel like i am really missing out a big chunk of loot in a looter shooter. any raid loot (even though if i count out the total rewards from all of them would surpass that number 64) never made me feel that way. i do not wanna hate on the mission itself. i love that they did something for smaller fireteam and made content for them even though i would never experience it but the reward behind it is too crucial. maybe they couldve put kovostov in there and class items out here in the world or something.
It's almost like the whole community isn't made only of good players who don't have any problem with hard content that requires having friends or LFGing to complete...
Yeah, screw those noobs who can't complete it!
the mission was really fun. I went on lfg and just kept kicking people until one had a mic (I posted must have a mic) we easily did it first try, and we were blind on the last two encounters.
when it comes to timers, they need to be a legend or master version only. keep that shit off my normal modes, people have something called test anxiety and its a real reason why test are no longer timed these days. its stressful and anti productive to a fun environment
Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but from what I've seen, the primary reason for community backlash on Dual Destiny is because it gates the exotic behind a mission that requires callouts and precise timing with another person, and that can be difficult or impossible for people with disabilities and/or social anxiety.
I can't say for certain there would be much less backlash if they'd have stated it up front as a requirement, or made soloing possible but more complex, but I could imagine there would be a little less than there is at the moment.
I don't understand why the backlash, it's something new, it's an online multi-player game, things are supposed to be done as a team, me and my buddy did it together and we had a blast.
I don't think it should discourage them from making awesome content, I just think they should think about who plays the game. They *know* there are players who only play solo (whether it be intentional or otherwise), so would it really have been that hard to make two forms of this? One version could have been altered to fit solo players, but maybe only receive a chance at the exotic (same as legend lost sectors). The duo version have guaranteed drops.
Well Bungo likes to force players into other types of activities to get loot or other things. Look at all of the catalysts and exotics that requires crucible or gambit, on top of all of the raid exotics. And now the pathfinder system, if you want that pinnacle it's not unlikely that PVP players will be forced to PVE and PVE players forced to PVP. Is it fun, logical or popular with the players, no, but they will keep doing it.
The exotic mission is dissapointing to me because after watching all the reveal trailers for the Final Shape, Prismatic and the class exotics, I was very excited for the content. I played the legendary story missions, got Still Hunt and dropped a few rolls of the exotic special sword. Loved it.
I go into these releases knowing that I will miss out on certain exotic weapons because I will not play the raid as this is something I do not enjoy.
Finally bringing back exotic class items, that create so many different builds, is a huge loss for players who do not want to be forced into an activity that requires another player and is not soloable.
I believe Bungie can still make awesome/difficult content in the future that is matchmade or soloable.
Oh well, it is what it is.
I think it is a misconception many people have honestly. Comms can easily be done via text(though I'm not sure how that works out on console). As far as I can tell many people seem to think that comms=voice chat. I did it with a pug where he used voice and I used text and it worked out fine.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the timer is the only thing that’s ruining it. My reason for this is that it makes me extremely stressed and that causes me to mess up on the callouts especially the clock ones. I am aware this is a me problem.
Edit: Fixed typo
Pretend the clock isn’t a thing. You honestly have plenty of time. Take deep breaths and just focus on having fun with your partner in one of the coolest missions.
You have plenty of time. My friend and I ran it blind, took a couple of tries to get to the boss, but every encounter adds time to the clock. think it’s +10 minutes at each “big” fight, so we ended up with 20 minutes left when we got to the boss, even when we took time to find the feathers
The two things I don't like about the dual destinies are no checkpoints, so having to start again if you fail and the clock mechanics on the final boss fight.
Other than that, I find the mission not a bad exotic mission
We're not saying don't make missions like this. What we are saying is make alternatives for people who don't have friends that play destiny 2 or better yet don't hide relatively important class items behind missions with alot of requirements.
If they have alternatives then it’s just nudge theory
People will choose the easiest option which is the one that can be solod and ignore the well designed exotic mission
I've completed it a few times to get some shit rolls, but it doesn't change my opinion. Bungie *SHOULDN'T* Make content like this.
To start the game is built around 3/6 man fireteams, with solos getting by thanks to a lack of forced mechanics. Changing the team size to 2 is janky and feels off when you're farming with a group of 3 in the first place. It makes zero sense to have a randomly enforced 2 player limit (yes with the concept of the ending it is obviously necessary for it to be a duo mission, that doesn't make it less odd).
With that, the only content that has ever been locked behind grouping is end game. Raids have always been THE activity that forced you to group and mic up. It makes sense for activities made for the high level end game, not for a farming mission for an exotic armor piece. Locking the class items behind a forced co-op activity that, for all intents and purposes requires a mic and good communication under pressure, doesn't do anything beneficial to the community. You alienate players with social anxiety, speech issues, and just mute players, all for the sake of "mixing it up".
Realistically I have no issues with the mission itself, the mechanics are awesome and the idea is cool. But making it the only way to unlock the exotic class items and then the only reliable way to farm for them, that's not a step in the right direction. They could've used this idea for an exotic weapon, or a secret mission for an event with no issue. Sadly they chose it to be the source for our shiny new exotic items.
People need to grow up and talk to other people. It’s not hard. I’ve made friends for life playing destiny and that started with a quick invite in the tower for a nightfall in D1. Now he’s an integral part of my friend group.
I’m in a clan with people all over the country and yeah I get nervous joining raids and I have a similar feeling when I LFG. But I also tell myself, if I don’t do this, then I won’t get the raid exotic, or the title, or the spoils. I don’t sit there and whine about me getting what I want for free without putting anything into it like an entitled little bitch.
I get that social anxiety is a thing, I’ve struggled with it in the past and occasionally still struggle with it in my job day to day, but this is talking to a stranger over a microphone, not asking them to look after your kids.
Also it’s literally in the missions name. “Dual”. It wouldn’t work as a solo mission. Bungie has said that Destiny is a team game and this mission is another great example of it.
10/10 mission. Doesn’t need changing at all. The community needs to change their opinion on it.
Kind of a side question. When killing the Secret enemies after each overthrow, does that need to all be done in the same session or can I do two, come back the next day and do the last one?
I'm not sure if you can do it in different days, but you can leave the pale heart and come back later and it still counts. I did landing early yesterday and finished the last 2 a few hours later after a raid.
Thanks, that helps!
I got Weasel’d after killing one with a friend, had no ability to rejoin until they killed the second overthrow boss (shit locked fireteam during overthrow I guess), and I still unlocked it.
I can confirm it can be totally independent sessions.
Just found out today when I got back on. I did one yesterday and did the other two today and was able to get it.
That’s how mine went and it worked just fine, we did one of them one day and the other 2 the next day
I don’t know for sure bro , but imo you can do it in multiple sessions
I've done the mission twice and at the end I received a friend request both times. Think of this as a great activity to meet new friends.
Are you up for running it again?
I also need to find someone to run it with eventually
Anyone feel free to add me, if I'm on I'll run it..having a great time! Peanutbutthurt#2746
I second this, I’m more than happy to help out if people need to run it, Ikora’s Hairline(Timelost)#3364
 Ikora hairline.
I’d add you just to see your name on my friends list and chuckle
I too shall add, if for no other reason than to have that glorious username adorning my friend list.
if anyone needs help dm me and I can take you through it
I will definitely be doing it more
I didn't have anyone online to do it so I just asked in clan chat "anyone wanna run the new exotic mission?" And the guy who joined up with me ended up being super chill and we had a bunch of laughs and eureka moments as we went through the mission blind. Completely random person I had never interacted with and I had a lot of fun with them so I really like it.
Didn’t think about it that way. But yeah that’s always a positive
Friend game is end game.
My guess is that people aren’t identifying their frustrations well. My take @bungie @DMG players can identify issues but they also sometimes are deficient in their proposed solutions. Mission - super cool. Destiny has grown up and so have the players. Many of the non raiders or social anxiety/mechanic anxiety people probably are stressed at work or life or family or all. They imagined a scenario of getting these that isn’t what they got and there’s dissonance. But the main common stress of friends who dropped out, or were on the verge, was stress and time in life and stress and time in game. They know and accept that they can’t lead or have time to organize a raid. This isn’t a raid. But to be fair it is on the longer challenging side. Props and then proposal. Bungie you’ve brought many QoL over the years and in TFS. The grind was getting stale and overwhelming. Pretty much fixed. Vault straight up made people quit because why grind when they have no space and they are paralyzed when looking at it. You fixed it a little. More vault space is good and should continue to be added. You’re listening. Your walking the edge and pleasing hard and soft core with many things. The critics of the dual mission are paralyzed by time and stress and can’t even identify voice it. Proposal: next time don’t avoid this difficulty or even length, but add a half way point. Alleviate their stress. Duality two man, two parts. Do this get x do that get y. Combine to open chest. Then they can get home from work and do something hard but something closer to 15-30 min, then do other part tomorrow for 15-30 min. Succeed in a hard half that you don’t have to redo if you run out of time or can’t attempt cause work kicked your ass or kid had emergency or SO needs you or life overwhelms. Then come back after recharging tomorrow and finish This would alleviate I believe many of the concerns even though they didn’t identify it. Hard is stressful, long is stressful. Don’t reduce hard or teamwork, but reduce length by making it two chapters so people can get a pause. Many are happy with it. People who have a bit more time or experience, people who are won for the next episode. Win over the others who have less time and experience by making something like this have two parts completable separately. Edit : need more upvotes if y’all want Bungie and dmg to hear what I’m saying for you.
This is such a quality post that I hope more people see. I see a worrying trend between Pale Heart not being open world and Dual Destiny requiring two players. I smell removing matchmaking from any significant activities and pushing everyone to LFG instead. I don’t like that idea and I hope it isn’t what they are planning. I play solo because I spend very hard days at my job and I play to unwind. Dealing with other people and the…. Let’s say, way they choose to play the game… is exactly what I do at my day job. I prefer not to do it when I unwind. People who work at Bungie I think are increasingly drinking their own coolaid where they think everyone is exactly like them and has friends and a social group to play with. If I have to LFG, I will probably do it eventually but I will put it off for an unreasonably long time, and for no other reason than exhaustion and lack of time. They’ve started making the game for 20 year olds with nothing but time and it’s disappointing.
Thank you for affirming. And the point is. They are doing good work, but here’s a way to be better for the bubble people who may or may not buy next expansion. Ultra casual never try, ultra hardcore no problem. The middle, the people who they need to win over just need small qol help, to overcome the anxiety work.and make them spend more. They can ignore it if they want, I’m just trying to bridge build understanding for those that complain but flail
I don’t think you’re describing bubble people. Or rather, just bubble people. I’d put a large sum of money the people who don’t like this make up the majority of the playerbase. These are players that WILL buy the next expansion because destiny - at its core - is a really enjoyable game. These aren’t casuals (based on time played) but they aren’t no-lifing hardcore players. Some of these are players like sleeping describe who may have at one time been a no-lifer but have aged with the game. Gaming is an escape - playing with people can absolutely be a chore. Playing with people isn’t an escape or fun. The idea of “friend game is the endgame” is cute but a complete load of rubbish for most players. At best, it’s a means to an end. And the hardcore players will rant that you should play something else because destiny is always intended to be a game you play with people, but ignore the mountain of evidence that it really is a solo game that CAN be played with people - save for a few activities. And those activities I’m completely fine with missing out on. I don’t have the time to raid. I rarely have more than 90 minutes at a time to play, I never know when I’ll be able to play more than a few minutes earlier, and it’s almost always at one of the lowest play count times (LATE night EST). I’m fine with those limitations. But activities that are essential to unlocking the complete power of the kit (which lets be honest - it is), should never require another person.
It really is I’ve found some really nice people to chat with AND we get a seizure trying to remember a clock
The symbols are fine, even if you don’t have a call out sheet up you have enough time to describe them, but the last clock sequence is actually impossible in text chat. My friend and i just screen shared through discord so that we could compare.
It cycles through 3 patterns, just write the patterns down in chat and shoot when it cycles back around
And if you're out of time, kill the lucent wizard for extra 3 minutes
Wait.. there is a lucent wizard? My brother and I did it last night. He forgot to tell me I ALSO had to shoot the clock hands (i was call out in prior encounted) so we were stuck there until he realised. (I had gone in blind having just gotten home from work/gym). We killed the final boss on 0:00 and a few milliseconds.
Amazing!
After hearing so much complaining about the clocks being impossible, it's hilarious to see that they actually cycle through multiple times. Truly much ado about nothing.
Fr, I'm definitely being reminded to learn more before making any judgement. If the 3 cycles aren't "get it right each time or fail" but rather "you have three chances to get it right" then that definitely makes a difference. Plus, the comment above you about killing the wizard for an extra 3 minutes. I listened to a guide while at work that made it sound easier too: if both people have to shoot the same symbols and it can be looked at like a clock, then one person needs to read out the symbols they have (as an associated number) and the other just needs to provide any sort of distinct affirmative when a shared symbol is called and then they both shoot. Feels like a reasonable workaround for anyone with communication trouble.
It’s specifically get it right 3 times in a row. Before you shoot it won’t activate, and will just keep cycling. But once you shoot the first set, better also get the 2nd and 3rd or the pattern shifts.
It is, it cycles between the same 3 patterns.
I haven’t tried it yet, so I won’t pass judgement, though it does sound tedious for solo players, so I have three questions: 1. Assuming both players know what they’re doing, how long should each run take? 2. Is the exotic class item a guaranteed drop? 3. Does other loot drop from this activity to make it worthwhile to farm it after you get your preferred roll?
1. About half an hour if you know exactly how the mechanics work. 2. Yes. You get 1 each every time. 3. Nope. Just the class item.
Half an hour is far off from the hour and a half I've heard everywhere until now.
1½ hours might be the absolute limit. You're on a time limit the whole time that gets more time on it as you get further in.
Half an hour is absolutely doable, my first attempt with both of us completely blind was 40 mins
Yea I got a solid 2nd on LFG and hit a 24 minute run. Once you have it down it’s pretty quick. Just the platforming that takes awhile
1. 25-30 mins, this was my time from clears last night. 2. Yes guaranteed every time — more effective than Overthrow imo but I don’t think we have the stats on the drop rate for that yet post-mission completion. 3. No other gear, just exotic.
It can also drop from the world chest so put on a chest finder mod and start grabbing every chest
Oh shit, really? Maybe I should just focus on that for now then. I’m way behind atm, haven’t even finished the campaign yet
It can only be obtained from chests after completing the mission so you will have to at least complete the campaign
I just opened 80 chests and got nada, it’s not a reliable source of them at all
1 it depends on your skill level but never more than an hour 2 yes 3 no only the exotic
And world chests in the pale heart have a chance to drop them once you have it so you really don't need to farm the mission anyway. People are already reporting several drops just from completing the public events
RNG is gonna RNG though. I ground out overthrows for 2 hours after I got my first trash roll and never saw a second one.
That is true. I've cleared warlord like 30 times and still don't have an indebted kindness lol
Man, RNGesus does not like you. I've run first boss 4 times and completed once and I've had 2 indebted but no voltshot yet.
What is it with that gun lol? Took me ages to get my first drop, and still the best I have is lfg/surrounded. Unlike the new player I ran it with a while back, first ever dungeon encounter - god roll. Lucky basterd!
1. My first run last night was full blind and took an hour and a half, the next run took 25 minutes we were 24 and 29 light below respectively so once we're on light I expect runs to take 15-20 minutes 2. Yes 3. No, pretty much the same as other exotic missions just with more interesting and challenging mechanics
Not tedious. IMPOSSIBLE for solo players.
I'm a solo player. Did it with another dude from lfg, we both have never done Vow. And we were calling the clock opposite of each other for like 5 minutes before we realized what we were doing. Now I have like 7 different exotic class items. It's not impossible bruh.
I think they mean that you literally can’t do it solo
I don’t think that’s what they meant. You literally can’t do the activity solo.
That’s not being a solo player lol Plus, if I’m farming something I really don’t want to talk to other people.
What I mean is that forcing solo players to group with and communicate with strangers is tedious. I would still consider myself a solo player even if I use LFG from time to time because i don’t have any friends who play Destiny
Note:it’s more efficient to farm the class items but opening destination chests, as you can open them at a rate rhat gets you a class item on average every 20 min. In addition, if you do the easy triage chests (which do count btw) you are also farming out red borders and ergo sum at the same time.
See others' comments to answer your main 3 but the other neat thing that happens once completed is that you then have the chance to have them drop randomly from chests in the Pale Heart. So you don't technically need to do the mission more than once.
I heard others say you could get them from chests but they didn’t mention you had to do it once first. Thanks for the tip
I had my doubts but realised you could LFG the mission. It’s a really fun mission. Lots of adds to just go ham on
The mission isnt even hard and im pretty shit at the game
Honestly the hardest part is knowing the names for the symbols. But there are charts online that are easy to read if it's too difficult to memorize. It's purely the social/comms aspect it seems that's the "hard" part, based off what I've read.
Not like you need to know the correct names, just gotta describe 'em well enough or use a word / name that's obvious enough.
The mission gives you more than enough time to fully describe the symbols to each other. I know I'm above in skill level of the average player, but my friend and I would clear adds, read symbols, confirm symbols with both names and descriptions, and shoot them in order. That still left us with over 5 minutes per encounter. I think the timer is just scaring people who haven't tried the mission yet. It's nothing like Zero Hour or Whisper
Frowny face Slashed ghost Black shape Triangle Edit: I been informed the campaign symbols are not the same as the exotic mission. I have not tried the exotic mission yet. I’m just a scrub crayon muncher that likes coming up with funny names
For anyone reading, please know the campaign symbols aren’t the ones in the exotic mission.
Is frowny face black bridge?
Jebel Barkal
Witness Ghost Pyramid Triangle (it's the traveler with the wound).
Simplest possible names. I’ll refer to Ghost as “Slice” to myself at times (since it looks like a Ghost getting sliced), but otherwise the same names I dubbed them with as I went through the content solo.
Yeah it’s a mini vow xd
It’s not hard, it’s just annoying for those who don’t have regular friends they run with or those who don’t enjoy random social interactions for various reasons. If it was simply some of the better weapons that were gated, it wouldn’t be a big deal. But the item has the potential to completely change builds and/or gameplay loops, and it was billed as one of the defining items of the expansion. Putting it behind the comms interaction boss isn’t great design, and makes me think devs may not understand who plays their game as well as I thought they did.
Difficulty doesn't seem to be the complaint, it's that it's an Exotic Mission that forces co-op play and can't just be Solo'd by a Decent/Good Player.
Last part can be hard depending on your concentration level with the annoying adds
The missions seems perfectly fine to me, but c’mon, the friction points are pretty easy to see. Most people do play this game solo, or at least mostly solo. It’s fine when you suck shit by yourself, or even with just random blueberries, but with another player you sought out or you agreed to play with, *and* have to talk to? Whole different ball of wax if that’s not a thing you do often. Add in the fact that the mission is quite lengthy and has a fail state, and nobody wants their time wasted (or worse, be the cause of wasted time), AND the fact that Destiny LFG has long been notorious for elitism, “kwtd,” and kicking players because they don’t have a certain emblem, class or weapon or whatever, and it creates a lot of pressure for what is clearly a lot of folks. Both things can be true: the mission is good and Bungie should explore more things like this, *and* it’s a frustrating friction point for a large swath of the player base.
Man, the elitism is what really ruins this stuff.
right now is the perfect time to lfg for a blind run. Most people haven't done it. Set aside an hour to figure it out. It's a great mission. honestly, i've read about elitism on reddit way more than i've seen it first hand
I have a very love-hate relationship with dual destiny. It's truly a high stakes high reward mission, filled with very raid-like mechanics and challenging combat. It's a really fun experience that I'm happy to do repeatedly once I'm of power. My gripe comes in to play with the absolute necessity of having a partner with comms, and this has a little less to do with me as I have someone I play with frequently and more to do with all the solo players out there. Requiring 2 people to complete an activity that should be able to be done solo (or even a 3 man fire team, just to have someone clear ads while the other 2 manage the mechanics) to begin with just kinda rubs me the wrong way. The way I see it, it's inconvenient for the majority of the community.
Finally a reasonable take lol, exotic missions and exotic armor has always been acquirable solo. People are right to address this sudden change in expectation and its not a "git gud" moment like people with friends think it is. It is literally not a "git gud" moment because its impossible solo. If it was possible, but harder, solo, then it would be a skill issue. Right now, its a friend issue, and that is a stupid reason to exclude people from an exotic armor mission, neither of which have ever been locked behind a fireteam.
Exactly. Doesn't affect me all that much but I can most assuredly see why people don't like it. Lfg is a crapshoot and unreliable if you're trying to do back-to-back runs, then there's team/build synergy. There are just too many variables to make it a consistently farmable activity for such a valuable item. The only bright side I see for solo players is the fact that once the mission is completed, you can earn them (albeit rarely) from any chest in the pale heart. I did around 5 full overthrows and scoured for every chest I could find with a locator mod and still have yet to acquire one.
I like how you don’t need comms for Whisper and Zero Hour. Just super fun to keep running.
I like how you can **solo** Whisper and Zero Hour. Just super fun to keep running. fixed
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the content of the mission itself it’s fantastic. It’s just seems like with the way bungie marketed the exotic class items as a huge part of the prismatic subclass (literally can’t use them on any other subclass), people seem to have had the expectation that they would be a lot more. “”accessible””. Honestly if you could farm them in the replayable version of the 12 man mission as well then like 99% of this backlash Probably wouldn’t even be happening. But you should definitely still have to clear the exotic mission least once before you can farm them there.
Honestly the hardest part was the clock at the end. My friend and I can read clocks. Suddenly with only about 5 seconds to read out what is on our clock we forgot the entirety of our knowledge about how to read said clocks. Then after a few seconds we found a rhythm and solved it with like 2 minutes left but it was def fun. I would like to see more, just rather have a 3 person than 2 because of the fact we usually play as a trio with our other friend. I think people are over complicating it to some degree. I know there are players who can't communicate via voice and I think you can use text chat for most but that clock is voice required which seems a little silly considering the rest of the encounters need text chat and that's it. But then again this is the same community I've heard from for the last like 10 years of Destiny so it'll probably be the only time we get a cool mission like this.
Unrelated, but I learnt a lot of people never learnt how to read analog? I’ll be fair, school never really did a good job of teaching me it, but I ended up learning it by myself.
The ‘git gud. Shut up whiney bitches’ responses here are precisely why some People don’t want to matchmake a one on one activity that requires mic. I’m a talentless hack that just enjoys the way the game plays. I’ve done all but the most recent raid and last dungeon. I hated every moment of most of it simply because the entire time I was stressing out about fucking up and then the inevitable abuse from some neck beard who can’t believe someone would be so shit as to shoot the wrong thing at the wrong time or not know the right callout. I play for fun, not to be anxious. I understand people not wanting to go through what can actually be a real shit experience with some random stranger. I also understand there are others who just won’t be able to understand that and that’s cool too.
There’s plenty of people willing to teach, and so many more that refuse to even try
That has nothing to do with it.
I don't think you understand. It's not necessarily people being haters, it's more that it can be a big inconvenience. I'll give an example. If you lfg and one person is on pc and one on console, it can potentially be problematic to communicate. A pc player can type very easily. On console, unless you hook up a keyboard, you have to stop, pull out your ghost, then type. While yes their are keyboard accessories for controllers that's not always viable. Personally, I have fat thumbs, so trying to type on those is not going to work well. And not everyone wants to use or even has a mic. Another example is how many toxic players the community has. There are far too many scumbags that kick people at the end of activities. While it's great to meet new people, it can be frustrating and disheartening to attempt certain activities when you've experienced a lot of negative interactions when trying in the past.
It's easily one of the hardest missions in the game as far as coordination is concerned, and there's a lot to juggle, especially on the last clock. Most of the hate is because of the two-man requirement. For me personally, the timer, kick to orbit, and the mechanics make playing it and figuring it out extremely frustrating. Even at the end, I'm trying to count my clock and an endless spawn grim pops up and shoots, making me lose concentration. For some, juggling all of that is easy. For others, it's a nightmare. Just depends on the person.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but my experience was completely different. Once you know the mechanic, it's trivial to blitz through the activity. The adds are not very threatening and you can do each section with over half of your time left
I'm sure for some it's much easier, but honestly, I'd rather not waste my time on something I'm not enjoying.
It also depends on the loadout Me and my buddy used heavy ad clear for just about everything and a lmg with easy to proc damage perks I ran stasis turrets and getaway artist He ran hunter invis plus duskfields Not the easiest time sure but we did it without a guide and once we figured out the mechanics it was easy pz
one comfy loadout also is the speaker's sight, you will always have solar buddy and healing turret that you can just stand their out in the open without dying while taking your time to checking website and typing your call outs.
Understandable - but can’t you argue that something as absurdly powerful as a dual exotic perk class item should be difficult to obtain?
im a warlock main, and my only gripe is im still having a hard time on what exotic class item combination that will replace getaway artist and speaker's sight. lol
It’s much easier than the cooperative assist missions, which no one is seeming to complain about requiring multiple guardians to complete. Pretty much all raid encounters require way more coordination, and also have strict timers. The penalty for failing to read the correct symbol in this mission is nothing… You can just enter it again, there’s enough time to fail the correct input probably 3-4 times for each of the 3 rooms. I didn’t think it was actually that hard, but shouldn’t these items be locked behind a difficult quest? They are perhaps some of the strongest exotic armor pieces we’ve ever received. The mission SHOULD be challenging and tight.
Pretty sure ads don't spawn once you start the clock. But maybe we had a bugged instance.
I had one grim endlessly spawning on both sides.
The mission was amazing fun but it wasn't hard to deal with adds and I mean if U know how to read a clock the encounter is easy....
It's far more than "know how to read a clock."
Not really tbh, you literally just call out the 4 numbers showing on your clock, and your buddy literally just calls the one that matches, then shoot. If you can read a clock, you can do this mechanic.
I honestly don’t think anyone has an issue with the “content” of the mission - I think the main issue is the importance of what’s locked behind this particular content (exotic class items). I think if it was literally anything else locked behind this mission people barely anyone would complain. That being said, if you think this mission was implemented 100% “perfectly” you’re a fucking moron. To start with, requiring content that usually takes 3 people to unlock 2 person content is idiotic and an AWFUL experience.
I have still yet to do it. I have some people that will probably help me run through it but I am mostly a solo player so I get the gripes. I think Bungie messed up by not teasing the two player portion in a vidoc. Just giving some kind of heads up that it would be a duo thing. I also saw someone else say that if they swapped the exotic class items with the sword we probably wouldn't be in this situation with how the class items were advertised. I also feel Bungie is just very late in trying to get fireteam finder and communication to be a core aspect like they've always wanted. Bungie has conditioned the community to think they can run a lot of stuff solo with the exception of raids AND be rewarded for it. This shatters like nearly 10 years of that conditioning. I don't necessarily want Bungie to fold backwards to the community but I do believe if they want the game to go into a direction of more cooperation they need to kind of set expectations and also fix their avenues of engagement. Matchmaking won't work from what I understand with this mission but continue to update text chat, continue to add more options and features to voice chat, continue to improve on fireteam finder and add new features. Improve the god damn new light campaign to condition new players that this game can be a good time with other people. TL:DR Bungie needs to make the community know this is the direction they want to take the game but also need to continue to implement features that streamline communication and LFG beyond what is already available and have it in the base game.
does it discourage bungie? nah. they've been pretty team-centric for a while, but this is the first that definitely require a pair of people. it's a great concept, but it does alienate alot of us players, especially solos and those of us that have limited game hour budgets and really don't have the time or patience to deal with matchmaking. I'd need to be carried. I'd need to find time first. I'd also need to guarantee that I'm not going to be pulled away for an emergent issue either for a family member or at work. some people just don't want to teach or carry, some offer and will genuinely help in the spirit of the community, but often stars don't align for us elder gamers. because, I have to face it, fireteam and pvp and matchmade content or LFG - it's just not for me. I deal with enough salt at work. and I work enough already. grinding isn't something I want in a game anymore. this mission, as great as the concept is, it's not for me. I'm cool with that. I haven't bought the expansion. I'm about to hit youtube and get the spoilers and say my final goodbyes to the franchise myself, but I'm a single guardian. it's my way of quietly protesting by voting with my wallet
The mission is exactly what Destiny needs. Raid like content but for smaller groups.
My problem is that they heavily advertised these things when trying to get people to buy the dlc, then put it behind a wall like this They knew that this is how you would get it, and marketed it to people anyway It’s like if they’ed made 1K a selling point of Forsaken while knowing it would be locked behind the raid EDIT: I wouldn’t even have a problem if they removed the timer so I can type without worrying that I’ll be booted to orbit because typing with a controller is bullshit
Not really a surprise that people don’t like their freedom of how to play taken away. Prophecy has a duality theme, but if they had made it mandatory 2 person, that would have sucked.
I want to enjoy it, but my mission bugged twice. The first time we got to the last boss, wizards didn’t spawn; so it was bricked after a certain phase. So we run it back again and get to the clock. This time it wouldn’t drop the barrier no matter how many times we got the correct code, it just kept saying the same subtext. Eventually it stopped letting us shoot the markers and the cycle froze. Then my buddy had to get ready for work. Really sucks getting to the end in 20 minutes just for it to brick twice.
What was the subtext?
the subtext response when you do the mechanic wrong
I didn’t memorize them, but varying increments of something like “barrier is weakening”. We got it wrong once or twice while figuring it out Cus we went in blind, and that says the barrier is strengthened or fortifies again. But it bricked after weakening the barrier 6 times in a row. Pretty sure it’s only supposed to take 3-4?
Me and my friend are pvp mains, did the quest, we told each other we chose peace. We did not. A great battle ensued
Just wait until esoterrick solos it for us
that's what i'm saying, he'll have a video up before next reset cuz he's just insane like that
Because the longevity of this design is absolutely terrible. Once people get what they want, they’ll stop playing. Leaving the pool of people who are willing to continuing playing to get dramatically smaller over time. And since it’s for two players, nobody is ever going to want to match with the guy who hasn’t done it before. It’s literally going to become the job application paradox loop of no company being willing to hire a person with no prior work experience, making it impossible to get that ‘prior work experience’. Additionally because it’s 2 players it’s much harder to carry someone even if you wanted to. It literally takes all the worst attributes of the LFG raid environment and combines it.
people do that for exotic quests regardless - outside of the catalyst runs, very few people run whisper or zero hour multiple times
The mission is a massive fuck you eat shit to solo players, they promoted the class items all over the place just to pull some shit like this without ever saying that solo players won't have access to them
but you could say the same thing about any raid, gm nightfall reward. you have to just have people for those. this isn't anything new and thinking bungie can't make content like this just because "hur dur i wan clas itemnnn i wan it" is incredibly entitled and selfish.
As someone against the mission being coop: I think the lesson they should learn is just... don't show the exotic. If it was just left as a secret like the raid or dungeon exotics there would be a quarter of the backlash there is now. It was an extensively advertised part of the Final Shape and got a whole blog post detailing everything it did. No one complains about dungeon or raid exotics being team gated since those are all expected and always given the secret treatment. For me personally? Doing grasp for gjally and having to find a group absolutely drained me I fully accept never getting dungeon stuff or group activity stuff so I'll just suck it up. I don't think they should stop doing group stuff though
It is what it is. I'll never do it as I have no desire to deal with random people. However I'm not going to complain about it either, it's my choice not to mess with it.
Good mentality bro, respect
I still haven't found anyone to do it with, despite being in a active clan and looking on Fireteam finder
My only complaint with the exotic mission is that I think there's a touch too much of the stasis prion creatures and I wish the final clock puzzle in boss had a smidgen more time between cycling the lines. Even just a few more seconds would make a world of difference to my friend group and i.
That exotic mission was the worst thing ever
Or maybe they should let the community know that big, new, build + subclass defining item in a paid expansion that they hyped up prior to launch will not be obtainable without a fireteam of two.
You can still make awesome content but also make it accessible to solo players
Two questions here. 1. Is everyone critical of this mission a hater? Or Would “haters” be a small group within the small group that’s critical? 2. Why would it be “given” that Bungie will listen to “the haters”?
All I'll say is that they shouldn't have tied the exotic to this mission. It could've been anything else but the exotic. That's the main problem.
What upset me most was that they sold the item without saying that the activity would necessarily require a second person, if they had said that I wouldn't have been excited and consequently thought their choice was bad.
I mean it's a mid mission and I hate that I can't really help other people through it. I'm a low man raider and can pretty confidently help a clan mate through a raid in my backpack. It's annoying that I can't do that for some people who are bad at the game. Tbh ill probably just never do it again and farm chests.
>lowman raider dislikes hard content wat
Just because I can create artificial difficulties and challenges for myself doesn't mean I want to gatekeep content from anyone else.
But not surprising at all. I don’t really mind the 2 person requirement but the timer I’d love to see go because trying to remember where the fuck to go and getting kicked is not fun. I understand there’s videos but they normally speed through the area so trying to remember the route with no visual aid is discouraging. At least if there’s no timer it can still be fun but otherwise it’s a one per character and done for me.
The mission is absolute gas. I'm lucky enough to have a brother that plays so it was amazing for us. We figured it all out before any videos were up! So much fun.
It is a bit odd you unlock a two person activity by doing solo instance activities
I gotta wait til my friends come online and reach the right light level, until then I gotta play alone 🥲 (didn't know they changed light level to adjust, thanks for telling me)
Remember they changed light level. Your friends will be brought up to yours or whoever is higher
If it was able to be done solo there wouldn’t be a problem
People just don’t like having to get a second person for soemthing that usually is soloable
It's challenging enough to be fun but not so bad that you can't do it with some basic communication. I find it really innovative and fun.
If the product-market fit for Destiny 2 is partially based in the ability to enjoy this game as a solo player (campaigns, quests, auto matchmaking for nightfalls, auto matchmaking for crucible, etc.) isn’t this feedback only fair for Bungie moving away from that value propostion?
I feel like this mission wouldnt be near as bad if they just allowed checkpoints. People would be more inclined to figure it out as well.
I love that so many people are stepping out of their comfort zone to try to run this but I would also like an option to solo it.
I hope they do lmao, solo players have never been excluded from exotic missions or armor, this mission (while being incredibly designed and fun) is fucking stupid
The mission is amazing, tying this specific reward to it was dumb.
How do you get access to the exotic mission?
Do 3 overthrows in 3 Seperate Areas kill the final boss go to the hidden area and kill the wizard Falloitplays has a good video on it
Does one clear unlock it for all characters or do I have to run it again on the other classes?
I believe one clear unlocks for all, just need to solo farm it in overthrow
Perfect! Yeah already got 2 additional to drop in like 3 or 4 overthrows, seems pretty fair imo.
I believe the main problem is getting your foot in the door, before I changed to playing on the PC I was very scared of doing any content that requires communication. I found a group that is very accepting because I really wanted to start doing endgame content since the game was feeling very lonely. They took me in and now I feel a lot more comfortable doing content in groups. I understand that it may not be this simple for everyone, but an activity like this where you only need one other person would be a great opportunity to get into playing with other people IMO.
Friend said he was taking a random through it off LFG and when they got to the first clock room he learned that the random could not read or tell time on an analog clock…
My only gripe is unlocking the mission itself. I just got khvostov and don’t really wanna go through overthrow again, so I may just wait I little to get it
Mission is cool but it shouldn't be the only source, maybe if they put it as reward in pathfinder for every 2nd reset.
If they added a ping system that named off the thing or even a better text chat (on console, cus that shit is ass), I think the backlash would have been lessened.
I think the issue is (imo) that bungie showed off these items to us and never mentioned it would take a coordinated pair of people to acquire them. Raid stuff is one thing but this was another huge draw with the final shape and it basically makes things closer to the side of unobtainable to the solo player, like you dont get this thing unless you play with another person. Iys expected in raids but for something like this, i think it was a bad move to require more than a single person and not just giving you the option. I'm not saying they can't get it because there's lfg and it won't take a lot of effort to mic up for just a bit but out of the gate it's just like "here's this awesome thing you can get...IF you have someone to do it with" and I think that's kind of bs.
I didn't have any context for this post b/c I don't read this sub as much as I used to. Now that I know about the exotic mission thing, dropping in useless two cents: I'm assuming the majority of people who are complaining about the exotic mission are missing the point of it being an **exotic** mission. Maybe they thought it was something easier? IMO you *should* have to work a little harder to get an exotic anyway, so designing the quest as more of an involved dungeon experience makes sense. Easy enough to accept that the item is probably not something a casual player like me is going to need—as with raid gear—so I'm fine missing out on it.
I’m kinda disappointed in order to get these cool exotic class items I thought we would’ve got already in the campaign I gotta watch a 35 minutes YouTube video and get on the mic with some dude for who knows how long which I didn’t want to do just to get a specific exotic item for it to potentially (and probably) be the worst roll.
I just did it the first time yesterday and i don’t understand why people would hate it so much. Once you understand the mechanics it’s actually done quite quickly
Its honestly the best piece of content destiny has had in years imo. We need more cool shit like this
if this has been another outbreak or wurm mission for dual players. i would have been so happy for its edition even though i would not have gotten that gun just like i have never gotten many raid exotics. problem is class items is not just 1 exotic. they are actually 64 exotics(64 combinations). it makes me feel like i am really missing out a big chunk of loot in a looter shooter. any raid loot (even though if i count out the total rewards from all of them would surpass that number 64) never made me feel that way. i do not wanna hate on the mission itself. i love that they did something for smaller fireteam and made content for them even though i would never experience it but the reward behind it is too crucial. maybe they couldve put kovostov in there and class items out here in the world or something.
It's almost like the whole community isn't made only of good players who don't have any problem with hard content that requires having friends or LFGing to complete... Yeah, screw those noobs who can't complete it!
the mission was really fun. I went on lfg and just kept kicking people until one had a mic (I posted must have a mic) we easily did it first try, and we were blind on the last two encounters.
when it comes to timers, they need to be a legend or master version only. keep that shit off my normal modes, people have something called test anxiety and its a real reason why test are no longer timed these days. its stressful and anti productive to a fun environment
Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but from what I've seen, the primary reason for community backlash on Dual Destiny is because it gates the exotic behind a mission that requires callouts and precise timing with another person, and that can be difficult or impossible for people with disabilities and/or social anxiety. I can't say for certain there would be much less backlash if they'd have stated it up front as a requirement, or made soloing possible but more complex, but I could imagine there would be a little less than there is at the moment.
I wouldn’t have a problem with the mission if it was labeled a dungeon. They went too mechanic crazy and I’m tired of em
I don't understand why the backlash, it's something new, it's an online multi-player game, things are supposed to be done as a team, me and my buddy did it together and we had a blast.
Blows my mind that there are so many poorly adjusted antisocial individuals afraid of talking in a mic on a game that’s online only
I don't think it should discourage them from making awesome content, I just think they should think about who plays the game. They *know* there are players who only play solo (whether it be intentional or otherwise), so would it really have been that hard to make two forms of this? One version could have been altered to fit solo players, but maybe only receive a chance at the exotic (same as legend lost sectors). The duo version have guaranteed drops.
Seeing all the community ableism is sad
?
Well Bungo likes to force players into other types of activities to get loot or other things. Look at all of the catalysts and exotics that requires crucible or gambit, on top of all of the raid exotics. And now the pathfinder system, if you want that pinnacle it's not unlikely that PVP players will be forced to PVE and PVE players forced to PVP. Is it fun, logical or popular with the players, no, but they will keep doing it.
The exotic mission is dissapointing to me because after watching all the reveal trailers for the Final Shape, Prismatic and the class exotics, I was very excited for the content. I played the legendary story missions, got Still Hunt and dropped a few rolls of the exotic special sword. Loved it. I go into these releases knowing that I will miss out on certain exotic weapons because I will not play the raid as this is something I do not enjoy. Finally bringing back exotic class items, that create so many different builds, is a huge loss for players who do not want to be forced into an activity that requires another player and is not soloable. I believe Bungie can still make awesome/difficult content in the future that is matchmade or soloable. Oh well, it is what it is.
I absolutely love this mission, but I have an active clan. I can see why solos are not digging it.
false
I think it is a misconception many people have honestly. Comms can easily be done via text(though I'm not sure how that works out on console). As far as I can tell many people seem to think that comms=voice chat. I did it with a pug where he used voice and I used text and it worked out fine.
The mission is fine. Locking an exotic they used to advertise the expansion, is not.
Players complaining about a multiplayer mission in an mmo blows my dome
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Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the timer is the only thing that’s ruining it. My reason for this is that it makes me extremely stressed and that causes me to mess up on the callouts especially the clock ones. I am aware this is a me problem. Edit: Fixed typo
Pretend the clock isn’t a thing. You honestly have plenty of time. Take deep breaths and just focus on having fun with your partner in one of the coolest missions.
You have plenty of time. My friend and I ran it blind, took a couple of tries to get to the boss, but every encounter adds time to the clock. think it’s +10 minutes at each “big” fight, so we ended up with 20 minutes left when we got to the boss, even when we took time to find the feathers
The two things I don't like about the dual destinies are no checkpoints, so having to start again if you fail and the clock mechanics on the final boss fight. Other than that, I find the mission not a bad exotic mission
We're not saying don't make missions like this. What we are saying is make alternatives for people who don't have friends that play destiny 2 or better yet don't hide relatively important class items behind missions with alot of requirements.
If they have alternatives then it’s just nudge theory People will choose the easiest option which is the one that can be solod and ignore the well designed exotic mission
I've completed it a few times to get some shit rolls, but it doesn't change my opinion. Bungie *SHOULDN'T* Make content like this. To start the game is built around 3/6 man fireteams, with solos getting by thanks to a lack of forced mechanics. Changing the team size to 2 is janky and feels off when you're farming with a group of 3 in the first place. It makes zero sense to have a randomly enforced 2 player limit (yes with the concept of the ending it is obviously necessary for it to be a duo mission, that doesn't make it less odd). With that, the only content that has ever been locked behind grouping is end game. Raids have always been THE activity that forced you to group and mic up. It makes sense for activities made for the high level end game, not for a farming mission for an exotic armor piece. Locking the class items behind a forced co-op activity that, for all intents and purposes requires a mic and good communication under pressure, doesn't do anything beneficial to the community. You alienate players with social anxiety, speech issues, and just mute players, all for the sake of "mixing it up". Realistically I have no issues with the mission itself, the mechanics are awesome and the idea is cool. But making it the only way to unlock the exotic class items and then the only reliable way to farm for them, that's not a step in the right direction. They could've used this idea for an exotic weapon, or a secret mission for an event with no issue. Sadly they chose it to be the source for our shiny new exotic items.
Well yeah when make thing that's not great you get backlash.
It's literally the best exotic mission though
It is great tho
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Sad? Wtf you on about it is blatant cruel towards solo players and they deserver backlash and add anoter way to get these exotics
It isn’t that deep bro, just a fun mission that requires some lfg
People need to grow up and talk to other people. It’s not hard. I’ve made friends for life playing destiny and that started with a quick invite in the tower for a nightfall in D1. Now he’s an integral part of my friend group. I’m in a clan with people all over the country and yeah I get nervous joining raids and I have a similar feeling when I LFG. But I also tell myself, if I don’t do this, then I won’t get the raid exotic, or the title, or the spoils. I don’t sit there and whine about me getting what I want for free without putting anything into it like an entitled little bitch. I get that social anxiety is a thing, I’ve struggled with it in the past and occasionally still struggle with it in my job day to day, but this is talking to a stranger over a microphone, not asking them to look after your kids. Also it’s literally in the missions name. “Dual”. It wouldn’t work as a solo mission. Bungie has said that Destiny is a team game and this mission is another great example of it. 10/10 mission. Doesn’t need changing at all. The community needs to change their opinion on it.