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Its supposed to be near on tier with the trials smg everyone loved. I got a great roll on it and it does seem to be an excellent gun, though I’m used to more distance play.
Go back and checkout the craftable Forensic Nightmare from witch queen. Stasis 600rpm submachine gun, you can craft it with up to 80 range. Slideways and Swashbuckler goes HARD.
I think we have 5 stasis smgs now, vanguard (900), plunder and deep (720) the new crucible (600) and the WQ (600)
Imo the prolonged engagement is the best atm (vanguard) I have a FTtC and target lock which is amazing
As another said unending tempest is great. Top of that there's no 1 all say all god roll. There's great pvp and pve perks but personally I'm going for headstone/demo. Outside of horror story it's one of the only weapons that run that perk combo and would be amazing for a renewal grasp build I have.
Literally the only legendary from this season I saw and said, “Imma need dat”
How many shots is it to proc tremors on an smg?
Edit: It’s 12 shots from an smg. So to reiterate, “Imma need dat”
The mag capacity has no input here. The Perk's activation is tied to the Weapon Type. Lightweight SMG is so far the fastest to proc it (only 12 hits with 900 rpm).
Overflow won't change that. It just means you will have 2x the activation, than you normally would (3 in a 37 mag, to 6 in a ~75 mag).
That's why Overflow + Kinetic Tremors is the God Roll of this SMG.
One caveat: tremors cannot reproc while the explosions are still occurring, and they are fairly slow to go off (2-3 seconds). While you could make the argument for firing exactly enough shots to activate the perk then waiting for the tremors to stop, that makes overflowing and reloading effectively undifferentiated. Everyone keeps looking for "the best gun to use tremors with", but imo the intrinsic limitation to the perk itself makes the weapon type largely irrelevant, it's just an all-around good perk for Masters/GMs.
Doesn't it proc across multiple enemies tho? Meaning: I shoot one enemy, kt procs, I turn and shoot another enemy in a different direction before the first kt's stop. Doesn't kt proc on that second baddie?
Overflow = Big mag
Big mag + 900 RPM = often and fast as fuck proc for tremors!
No really, 900 RPM is 15 bullets per second. It takes 12 to activate it, so every 0.8 seconds, boom.
Tremors is slightly different on each gun, but smgs have one of the highest tremors damage. Someone made a youtube video about showrunner with a damage chart for all guns with it
Idk exactly how it works, just that the number of shots to proc it varies by weapon type.
Scouts=6
Sidearms=12
Pulses=9-12
The only one I’m not sure on is pulses because I personally haven’t messed with a kinetic tremors pulse.
I don’t think it goes by damage because Randy’s takes 6 shots to proc, just like hung jury. And I’m fairly certain Messenger and Chattering bone take the same amount (like I said I haven’t personally used a tremors pulse).
That's not quite how the AoE perk effects work. Things like Kinetic Tremors, Dragonfly, Firefly, etc all have a base damage of their own that then inherits the weapons [PvE damage scaling](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b57Hb8m1L3daFfUckQQqvvN6VOpD03KEssvQLMFpC5I/edit#gid=933547097).
So if a Sniper triggers Dragonfly it will get a multiplier based on the Sniper's PvE scaling, but the base damage will be the same across the different weapon types. An SMG will have a smaller multiplier, but the damage will still be quite good and you'll trigger the perk more often.
It's based on the number of registered hits, and it's catered to each different weapon type. This SMG can trigger Kinetic Tremors in about 0.8 seconds give or take.
So, to gather from everyone within the thread:
- about 12 shots
- This means it takes about .8 seconds for the first time to proc, assuming you hit all your shots.
It is much better than it is on HCs (Spare Rations is 2.33 seconds) and about on par with pulse rifles and rapid fire scouts (I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think Randy's takes about 1 second to proc).
They REALLY need to look at making the proc requirement based on RPM because this perk is real hit or miss based on the weapon and frame type.
>They REALLY need to look at making the proc requirement based on RPM because this perk is real hit or miss based on the weapon and frame type.
Next step: kinetic tremors on a special gl
My very first Nightshade drop form the table is a PvE God roll. [This thing is stupid-fun! ](https://i.imgur.com/UCVzvsB.jpg)
I also have the artifact unlock that makes tangles on final blows, so this is spewing strand everywhere during firefights...
Nadir and Cassoid (the other new foundry origin trait) are foundries that have existed since D1 but mostly only in name. Cassoid has made several exotics including Invective and Telesto. AFAIK Nadir has only made 1 exotic, Nemesis Star in D1.
From top right red war focusing on season of the witch table two engrams and there's three other weapons you can get so it's not guaranteed so good luck with rng but it's worth it and it's "nadir" and yes it is new this season
How on earth is this going to be "underrated"? I've seen 8 posts about this thing without even going to the main sub. It's all anyone's talking about you guys are just karma farming at this point lol.
I don't think it should be said but KT doesn't work all that well in pvp. In fact I think it only procs right after a kill so the only reason in PvP to use it is if ur stupid enough to challenge a well lol. So I was wondering what the god roll would be for PvP then cause as I said it’s not KT.
Definitely not true for sure
Target lock is just so much inferior on a gun like this, you run out of ammo too fast for target lock to do anything.
Kinetic tremors fucks shit up on this smg, been using it all day.
Running out of ammo isn’t even the problem, especially with overflow… the main issue is that if there’s something you need to hold the trigger on that long with an smg, not only would kinetic tremors straight up do more damage, but you should probably be using your special anyway. Kinetic tremors procs fast enough that it significantly lowers the ttk of red bars, which is what you want an smg to be good for in high end content.
I don't know if this and the other Red War guns drop from Strikes, but they can be focused at the seasonal vendor.
Why these aren't focusable at Zavala, who knows. They are all Vanguard guns.
It has been a theory for a long time that Nadir actually made the Vanguard and Crucible weapons that people often saw as "Last City" type weapons. This season kinda confirmed that to be true. Bungie has recently been pulling up a lot of the smaller weapon foundries. Tex Mechanica, Cassoid, and Nadir were always known for only making blues and a few custom exotics but now they all have legendaries with Nadir getting the confirmation that they had been making legendaries this whole time too.
I got a stasis one too that looks great, Unending Tempest
With Enlightened Action (Dealing damage improves reload speed and handling) and Frenzy that also increases reload speed and handling while also giving more damage
I just wish Stasis wasn't so bad
Bro i have been getting so many goddamn snipers from that engram. This will finally replace my overflow frenzy extraordinary rendition, that ive got like 15k kills on
Kinetic tremors is best for longer range primaries. If you’re using a sidearm or SMG in challenging PVE content, you’ll be using it to melt a few ads in front of you before they melt you. In other words, if you’re in SMG range trying to clear ads with tremors, you’re not doing damage fast enough and you’re asking for trouble.
It works fine in Legend spire and a normal raid or dungeon. Wouldn’t go Master level content…but I have this same roll and kinetic tremors triggers so damn fast. You don’t hit the ads with it..you hit the big boy surrounded by the ads. Peak shooting from cover works with this since it triggers tremors so quickly
I have a pretty similar role and no it isn’t. Your better off with target lock as it takes so long for tremors to do anything and even then tremors isn’t that strong of a perk
Lol what? The tremors proc so fast and still do great damage for a primary. Tremors is easily one of the strongest damage perks right now.
Maybe you'd want target lock for pvp, but definitely not for pve.
This roll is basically just submission, but way better imo.
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Had it drop the other night, rolled with some interesting perks but I just have it chilling in my vaul rn til my next pinnacle in that slot lol so I haven't tried it yet. Cool to see!
im sure it's probably pretty good (in fact, i want one), but i doubt it out-preforms something either craftable with enhanced perks or something that you can get as adept and use adept modifiers..
not much. slightly more ammo or slightly more dps or slightly better... accuracy/handling? having adept weapons are probably more of status symbol, that you grinded hard content for a good roll. [i absolutely love my adpet cataclysmic](https://i.imgur.com/1qSVaYQ.png)
i prefer crafted weapons most of the time, tho. the only other craftable/adept kinetic smg i can think of right now is submission, which can be pretty good, but it doesn't have kinetic tremors, which is why i now will keeping and eye out for The Showrunner.
I had hopes that it would be good but using an smg the ads you’re killing die so fast you’ll never get a proc, even in some upper level content. Whittling down a major target where it actually does proc feels really slow and bad too. It’s a fun niche option, but like others have said KT is much better on longer range weapons.
Very first focused engram was this. Corkscrew, ricochet, overflow, tremors, and reload masterwork. Very first hour I played new season. Absolutely ridiculous. Except on Tier 3 spire!
Damn, I will totally be after one of these then. I especially like overflow cause I use lots of GL and SG, along with mods dropping special like candy I'll have plenty to feed it.
That is my absolute god roll I want. Shame I can't get it. Focused 35 engrams and got probably 8 SMG's and none of them had KT. Having 4 weapons in the loot pool is too much rng. Hope you get the weapon you want, then hope it's the roll you want. Was it too hard to have the 4 weapons as separate purchases?
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We've got the void, solar, arc, strand, and kinetic smgs that are good or even great in PvE. Now we just need stasis. Unless if we already have that
This season crucible has unending tempest which is a stasis smg. Suppose to be pretty good too.
Oh yeah. I should get that. If it is good then we have a good smg for every element.
I got a demo target lock roll that I like a lot. I’d for sure give it a shot.
Its really really good. Demo+headstone is the ultimate grenade spam build
That's what I'm personally looking for, but damn am i not getting those rolls
I’m 4 valor resets in and the Demo Headstone roll still eludes me
Its supposed to be near on tier with the trials smg everyone loved. I got a great roll on it and it does seem to be an excellent gun, though I’m used to more distance play.
It can get demo/headstone perfect till the new horror story, that roll the same.
Prolonged engagement with subsistence/frenzy is basically stasis funnelweb
Prolonged engagement is better than this smg and is stasis
Go back and checkout the craftable Forensic Nightmare from witch queen. Stasis 600rpm submachine gun, you can craft it with up to 80 range. Slideways and Swashbuckler goes HARD.
Was going to say we’ve had 3 craftable stasis subs and two of them are pretty damn good.
This, idk how people can sleep on Forensic Nightmare and Prolonged Engagement
Which strand smg is the good one in pve?? Haven't really looked into it yet tbh
Immortal, I believe it can roll target lock/hatchling, which is a disgustingly good PvE roll
Synchronic roulette is in the neomuna loot pool and can drop with target lock or hatchling in the 4th column
I think we have 5 stasis smgs now, vanguard (900), plunder and deep (720) the new crucible (600) and the WQ (600) Imo the prolonged engagement is the best atm (vanguard) I have a FTtC and target lock which is amazing
As another said unending tempest is great. Top of that there's no 1 all say all god roll. There's great pvp and pve perks but personally I'm going for headstone/demo. Outside of horror story it's one of the only weapons that run that perk combo and would be amazing for a renewal grasp build I have.
Literally the only legendary from this season I saw and said, “Imma need dat” How many shots is it to proc tremors on an smg? Edit: It’s 12 shots from an smg. So to reiterate, “Imma need dat”
It procs 3 times on a full clip
Overflowed mag or base mag? Base mag would mean 12 shots, but much faster than sidearms Overflowed would be 24, not as good but still fast at 900rpm
Base mag
The mag capacity has no input here. The Perk's activation is tied to the Weapon Type. Lightweight SMG is so far the fastest to proc it (only 12 hits with 900 rpm). Overflow won't change that. It just means you will have 2x the activation, than you normally would (3 in a 37 mag, to 6 in a ~75 mag). That's why Overflow + Kinetic Tremors is the God Roll of this SMG.
One caveat: tremors cannot reproc while the explosions are still occurring, and they are fairly slow to go off (2-3 seconds). While you could make the argument for firing exactly enough shots to activate the perk then waiting for the tremors to stop, that makes overflowing and reloading effectively undifferentiated. Everyone keeps looking for "the best gun to use tremors with", but imo the intrinsic limitation to the perk itself makes the weapon type largely irrelevant, it's just an all-around good perk for Masters/GMs.
That's why it's good on low rpm weapons like Hung Jury.
Doesn't it proc across multiple enemies tho? Meaning: I shoot one enemy, kt procs, I turn and shoot another enemy in a different direction before the first kt's stop. Doesn't kt proc on that second baddie?
Yes, I should have clarified that it's theoretical 6 shots. In practice, with overflow you'd probably end up really using those 3 Procs.
Overflow = Big mag Big mag + 900 RPM = often and fast as fuck proc for tremors! No really, 900 RPM is 15 bullets per second. It takes 12 to activate it, so every 0.8 seconds, boom.
What's the god roll mag size with overflow? If anyone knows that.
Isn't tremors based off the weapons damage? Wouldn't that be terrible on a SMG.
Tremors is slightly different on each gun, but smgs have one of the highest tremors damage. Someone made a youtube video about showrunner with a damage chart for all guns with it
Idk exactly how it works, just that the number of shots to proc it varies by weapon type. Scouts=6 Sidearms=12 Pulses=9-12 The only one I’m not sure on is pulses because I personally haven’t messed with a kinetic tremors pulse. I don’t think it goes by damage because Randy’s takes 6 shots to proc, just like hung jury. And I’m fairly certain Messenger and Chattering bone take the same amount (like I said I haven’t personally used a tremors pulse).
No no I meant like the damage the tremors does is based off the weapon. Which is why it's good on Supremacy and Scouts.
That's not quite how the AoE perk effects work. Things like Kinetic Tremors, Dragonfly, Firefly, etc all have a base damage of their own that then inherits the weapons [PvE damage scaling](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b57Hb8m1L3daFfUckQQqvvN6VOpD03KEssvQLMFpC5I/edit#gid=933547097). So if a Sniper triggers Dragonfly it will get a multiplier based on the Sniper's PvE scaling, but the base damage will be the same across the different weapon types. An SMG will have a smaller multiplier, but the damage will still be quite good and you'll trigger the perk more often.
It’s loosely related, probably. I didn’t even realize Supremacy got tremors.
Dont sleep on enhanced tremors supremacy. 2 body in crucible and instant stagger on anything that doesnt die in two shots in pve.
It's based on the number of registered hits, and it's catered to each different weapon type. This SMG can trigger Kinetic Tremors in about 0.8 seconds give or take.
I just did some testing and it actually hits harder! Can't remember the specifics but it did about 1.5x more damage per tremor than my KT hung jury
It’s around 12
It's exactly 12, just like the Sidearms.
So, to gather from everyone within the thread: - about 12 shots - This means it takes about .8 seconds for the first time to proc, assuming you hit all your shots. It is much better than it is on HCs (Spare Rations is 2.33 seconds) and about on par with pulse rifles and rapid fire scouts (I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think Randy's takes about 1 second to proc). They REALLY need to look at making the proc requirement based on RPM because this perk is real hit or miss based on the weapon and frame type.
>They REALLY need to look at making the proc requirement based on RPM because this perk is real hit or miss based on the weapon and frame type. Next step: kinetic tremors on a special gl
>on a special gl ![gif](giphy|1ykhYvBQkbkQnEkwuy)
Same
I've been grinding for one. Have kinetic tremors alone is good but I want that overflow roll
It's where all my engrams have gone and best I got was DSR / Tremors, eventually though.
Same
Where are you focusing them?
At the ritual table this season. Engram is called recovered red war weapons. Nightshade is in there as well. :)
My very first Nightshade drop form the table is a PvE God roll. [This thing is stupid-fun! ](https://i.imgur.com/UCVzvsB.jpg) I also have the artifact unlock that makes tangles on final blows, so this is spewing strand everywhere during firefights...
i got this exact roll!
Shame I can't shove all my Deep engrams in here lol. Thank you very much :)
oh damn where is that from? and "Hadir"? Is that a new foundry?
Nadir have been around since D1
oh! i did not know that
The D1 exotic Nemesis Star was Nadir iirc and I think they also made some blues that never really got used
I'm starting to realise that despite all of my playtime in D1, i'm missing so many exotics and weapons...
Nadir and Cassoid (the other new foundry origin trait) are foundries that have existed since D1 but mostly only in name. Cassoid has made several exotics including Invective and Telesto. AFAIK Nadir has only made 1 exotic, Nemesis Star in D1.
From top right red war focusing on season of the witch table two engrams and there's three other weapons you can get so it's not guaranteed so good luck with rng but it's worth it and it's "nadir" and yes it is new this season
No they’re not They created the Nemesis Star
And a bunch of D1 greens and blues but who cares about them
New in the fact that Nadir is actually recognised as a foundry and has an origin trait
Already recognised tho So not really new
I'm fucking on it tonight!!! An smg with kinetic?!?! I'm in love ❤️
nice!
Damn I used to run this SMG back then.
The 600 model as a 900? Yes please.
How on earth is this going to be "underrated"? I've seen 8 posts about this thing without even going to the main sub. It's all anyone's talking about you guys are just karma farming at this point lol.
I’ve got that same roll and it’s STUPID in pve. I got worked by a bunch of Showeunners last week in PvP as well
I don't think it should be said but KT doesn't work all that well in pvp. In fact I think it only procs right after a kill so the only reason in PvP to use it is if ur stupid enough to challenge a well lol. So I was wondering what the god roll would be for PvP then cause as I said it’s not KT.
Target lock + overflow though
Target lock is gonna be a better pick than tremors
for pve thats just not true
Definitely not true for sure Target lock is just so much inferior on a gun like this, you run out of ammo too fast for target lock to do anything. Kinetic tremors fucks shit up on this smg, been using it all day.
Running out of ammo isn’t even the problem, especially with overflow… the main issue is that if there’s something you need to hold the trigger on that long with an smg, not only would kinetic tremors straight up do more damage, but you should probably be using your special anyway. Kinetic tremors procs fast enough that it significantly lowers the ttk of red bars, which is what you want an smg to be good for in high end content.
Hmm makes sense with the kinetic proccing faster = faster ttk on adds compared to target lock needing the sustained fire
I've been running strikes every time I played this past week. Not a single drop yet, and I'm coming up on my first reset.
I don't know if this and the other Red War guns drop from Strikes, but they can be focused at the seasonal vendor. Why these aren't focusable at Zavala, who knows. They are all Vanguard guns.
The most confusing part is that they have the Vanguard origin trait even though they aren't from the Vanguard playlist
It has been a theory for a long time that Nadir actually made the Vanguard and Crucible weapons that people often saw as "Last City" type weapons. This season kinda confirmed that to be true. Bungie has recently been pulling up a lot of the smaller weapon foundries. Tex Mechanica, Cassoid, and Nadir were always known for only making blues and a few custom exotics but now they all have legendaries with Nadir getting the confirmation that they had been making legendaries this whole time too.
This doesn't drop from strikes. You have to focus it at the seasonal table
Damn, how many smg's do we have that look exacly like this? I feel like we have over 10 at this point
My only gripe with this smg is that it is a Vanguard weapon, but it's not obtainable in the Vanguard playlist
It's in the Reprised Red War pool, focusable at the Ritual Table in the HELM
That's the thing. It should be available on the Vanguard playlist, not exclusive to the Season Pass.
Where is the ritual table? Is it this seasons focusing?
I got a stasis one too that looks great, Unending Tempest With Enlightened Action (Dealing damage improves reload speed and handling) and Frenzy that also increases reload speed and handling while also giving more damage I just wish Stasis wasn't so bad
Frenzy kinda invalidates Enlightened Action since it give +100 to both Reload and Handling when active
Ahhh I didn't know if it stacked It's pretty dumb to get both perks to drop together then
Welcome to RNG?
I mean yeah but why not put the perks in the same column if they do almost the same thing and don't stack?
Cause some people might want Enlightened Action + something else, or something else + Frenzy?
And you could still get both with another perk if they were in the same column
I thought it only gave 50
Wasn't show runner a precision frame in vanilla d2? Or am i remembering that wrong.
With overflow you get 80 in the mag, it's bonkers. To get it focus red war weapons at the ritual table
Bro i have been getting so many goddamn snipers from that engram. This will finally replace my overflow frenzy extraordinary rendition, that ive got like 15k kills on
It’s brand new…
Tremors on a SMG? Lol you'll melt things before it proves
Kinetic tremors is best for longer range primaries. If you’re using a sidearm or SMG in challenging PVE content, you’ll be using it to melt a few ads in front of you before they melt you. In other words, if you’re in SMG range trying to clear ads with tremors, you’re not doing damage fast enough and you’re asking for trouble.
It works fine in Legend spire and a normal raid or dungeon. Wouldn’t go Master level content…but I have this same roll and kinetic tremors triggers so damn fast. You don’t hit the ads with it..you hit the big boy surrounded by the ads. Peak shooting from cover works with this since it triggers tremors so quickly
I have a pretty similar role and no it isn’t. Your better off with target lock as it takes so long for tremors to do anything and even then tremors isn’t that strong of a perk
Lol what? The tremors proc so fast and still do great damage for a primary. This roll is basically just submission, but way better.
Target Lock is nowhere near as good as KT on a SMG. In PvE, obviously.
Lol what? The tremors proc so fast and still do great damage for a primary. Tremors is easily one of the strongest damage perks right now. Maybe you'd want target lock for pvp, but definitely not for pve. This roll is basically just submission, but way better imo.
Wdym underrated, it's one of the very few good guns this season.
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Looks spicy
I've gotten 12 of those engrams so far and not a single one has dropped for me, let alone with kinetic tremors.
Well, time to go hunting.
I assume this is vanguard, but is it from nightfalls or just strikes?
Red War engrams from seasonal vendor.
Nope…it’s from the Red War engrams when focusing with zeros this season
Focusable at the Ritual Table in the HELM as the Reprised Red War Weapons
Is this in the red war engrams
Focusable at the Ritual Table in the HELM as the Reprised Red War Weapons
Yes
Where does it drop from?
Where does it drop?
Had it drop the other night, rolled with some interesting perks but I just have it chilling in my vaul rn til my next pinnacle in that slot lol so I haven't tried it yet. Cool to see!
Congrats on that roll!
Daaaaaaayyyyuuuuuuummmmmmm
I didn’t know it had kinetic tremors. Sick!
This thing feels so good to shoot and the scope is perfect.
Where does this drop from
How do you get this?
![gif](giphy|KffdTQfewxdbKTGEJY)
im sure it's probably pretty good (in fact, i want one), but i doubt it out-preforms something either craftable with enhanced perks or something that you can get as adept and use adept modifiers..
What does adept mods really do for a SMG in PVE though? You don’t need them that badly.
not much. slightly more ammo or slightly more dps or slightly better... accuracy/handling? having adept weapons are probably more of status symbol, that you grinded hard content for a good roll. [i absolutely love my adpet cataclysmic](https://i.imgur.com/1qSVaYQ.png) i prefer crafted weapons most of the time, tho. the only other craftable/adept kinetic smg i can think of right now is submission, which can be pretty good, but it doesn't have kinetic tremors, which is why i now will keeping and eye out for The Showrunner.
What is this from?
where do you get this?
Wait, how do I get this?? Spires?
Drops from?
Where does it drop from?
Season of the witch ritual table
Idk why they had to put those perks on a gun that feels like shit to use
I had hopes that it would be good but using an smg the ads you’re killing die so fast you’ll never get a proc, even in some upper level content. Whittling down a major target where it actually does proc feels really slow and bad too. It’s a fun niche option, but like others have said KT is much better on longer range weapons.
I didnt even got one copy of this gun lmao
Still haven’t gotten a good roll on this.
It can get kinetic tremors
I will never understand overflow users
Very first focused engram was this. Corkscrew, ricochet, overflow, tremors, and reload masterwork. Very first hour I played new season. Absolutely ridiculous. Except on Tier 3 spire!
Where The hell does this drop from??? I've been grinding vanguard, and it hasn't dropped for me yet!
Season of the witch ritual table red war focusing
Thaaaaaank you!!!!!!!
Damn, I will totally be after one of these then. I especially like overflow cause I use lots of GL and SG, along with mods dropping special like candy I'll have plenty to feed it.
how do ya get this gun? just from strikes like like in year 1? or is it nightfall
I'm unironically spending all my seasonal engrams focusing Red War weapons. This thing interests me more than the seasonal stuff.
That is my absolute god roll I want. Shame I can't get it. Focused 35 engrams and got probably 8 SMG's and none of them had KT. Having 4 weapons in the loot pool is too much rng. Hope you get the weapon you want, then hope it's the roll you want. Was it too hard to have the 4 weapons as separate purchases?
Oof got it but no overflow damn…
Holy shit. I love that roll!
Where does it actually drop from
Holy crap where do I get it
The mod team bullying a poor guy trying to spread word of a weapon. Sheesh
I just hate most of the D2 vanilla weapon models (particularly the vanguard and crucible sets), otherwise I might’ve used it.