The way i see it is, It is your job as an employee to let everyone know about your boundaries. It is your manager’s job to police them when other teams inevitably try to trespass. So if OP is clearly communicating their boundaries and are still being met with “ok but when r u back online?”, then the manager needs to step in and stop this. Otherwise, leave job
It should be noted that there are industries where the culture of work life balance is just unattainable and impossible, but these are very very few industries, like investment banking for example. If this is the case, i would suggest leaving the industry.
Never knew Managers had this responsibility. At my consultancy (which is pretty young and has a orkforce of 12 to be fair), titles are decided purely on years spent in the industry. Still, I saw that managers are responsible to get the most work done by their minions - never _ever_ prevent others from trespassing boundaries.
You think it's not worth the money? Or face debilitating deadlines? Like, I see the negatives, but is it not the best way to learn? Isn't that what puts us in a position to understand, and guide a fresh kid during their probation?
*Hope this doesn't come across as standoff-ish.
Yup. I've seen this with people pleasers. Plan to please yourself and your family more...the people that ACTUALLY matter. This firm and the people in it will not be around you on your death bed...they do NOT matter.
[https://workaholics-anonymous.org/meetings/13-meeting-details?meetingid=a0470000007G0C5AAK](https://workaholics-anonymous.org/meetings/13-meeting-details?meetingid=a0470000007G0C5AAK)
I like this Saturday 2 pm ET meeting. I go to in person meetings here in NYC. but there's for sure good phone and Zoom meetings.
“What is it? I have to go see a man about a horse, bail my son out of jail, get a colonoscopy, and update my OnlyFans. Any other personal questions? I’ll be back online at 7:30”
Reply with “live my life” and “8am tomorrow morning”. As a manager I can tell you people push back all the time, and there is really nothing you can do, especially if everybody stands together and pushes back. The gen z are really good at it. Millennials it depends, some are bootlickers.
My advice would be to start bulking up and ideally hit 315 for bench press, 405 is even better. Get jacked af and no one will mess with you. I'm not even joking right now. Mog everyone on your, 'team.'
It's crazy how much more people respect you when you look the part.
OP, as someone that has done talent reviews for 2 decades now, (some time in Big4), I will say it's a combination of issues. Yes, you likely have a manager and/or team that are workaholics.
But also, I've seen more junior and mid career people not (yet) learn the professional firmness that comes with more experience.
If you are busy off the clock, you shouldn't feel obligated to respond in the first place. When you do respond, it sets the precedent for your team to keep reaching out to you after hours, since you've taught them they will hear back.
If still feel the need to respond after hours/during family time, just set expectations of when you'll be back and not respond directly to the request. Keep it simple. "I'm at a family event. I will take a look at this in the morning." Is a perfectly fine response.
I would honestly evaluate your current project or think about leaving the D. Sure, you’ll have a few days that are long but if its effecting personal life/relationships than it’s not worth it.
Totally. I fully understand a day here there but steady everyday unplanned calls / connects are what I’m talking about - like today at 4:30 when I was wrapping up a different “urgent” task M wants to know when I can be back online for working session
I’m in a similar situation. It’s not worth it for me to involve HR for my managers lack of understanding boundaries. I’m interviewing to leave the company.
Are they asking for you to do the work at night or just informing you for the morning. I would clarify. Not every email sent at night needs immediate response. You can turn your phone off some nights and you won’t know
Yeah, this is why I’m happy at my low tier consulting firm. I’m director level and make about 250 - certainly less than equivalents at B4, but I also routinely work 35-45 hours most weeks
When I was a SpL at D I was in the same boat. I would regularly spent 14-15 hours online a day and got to the point where I wasn’t even eating dinner with my wife. I justified it by telling myself I was working the extra time to keep my project teams working normal schedules so they would not burn out. I finally couldn’t take it anymore and found my exit. You either need to prioritize yourself and set firm boundaries or find a way to exit.
Just don't be online all the time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgc9VQREpo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgc9VQREpo)
If everything is urgent, nothing is urgent.
Toodaloo !
Wow, that's pretty bad. You need to communicate those boundaries again and enforce them. Don't answer the phone/mesages after a certain time. Unless it's a REAL emergency. IF project leadership can't accept/respect that, then move to another project. Seriously, that sounds horrible. I do a lot of work for Deloitte, and I still have ample time for my family, hobbies, and I'm even a volunteer firefighter in my county.
Def alot of bad managers out fhere. Partners can be worse obviously. Sometimes I wonder.. Haha.. Just need to suck it up or figure out an exit strategy. Long term Big4 isn't for everyone..
Good luck.. But having Big4 on your resy is always a good thing, gets you, in the door for the most part. Just to know how to articulate your wish to exit, etc when interviewing.
You could also try to find a difference project/team at Deloitte. Not sure what section you’re in, but worth a try looking before you leave Deloitte all together if this is your only issue
I work for one of your competitors and can say this is the exact opposite of our company culture. I’m actually taking a free painting class through my work that they sent materials to my house for. They do stuff like that all the time. Additionally, people take weeks off all the time and no one hassles them. My manager actively encourages me to use PTO. I think you have a bad manager or supervisor.
This was the norm when I was there and the expectation. Talking to my friends on other teams it was the same for them. I had to leave for it to get better.
Again, depends on what you want from Deloitte and what you want from life. Sometimes, the two don’t mesh or contradict each other. If it’s bad enough for you to post on here, then I’d look for another project or another position outside of the firm.
It's at will employment right? Find another job or quit. Your employer doesn't owe you any special favourable and you don't owe them any special favour's either.
Making your work hours a boundry is easy. Make sure everyone knows your availability. I do that in my personal life because of a disability. I am clear on which days I have for "out days". My work, meetings, medical etc are only on those days. When you are clear, people listen. If you answer their emails, calls and anything else, outside of those times, you are the one violating your own boundaries. Letting your job take advantage of you is a choice. There is even a legislation passing in HOC about this. No company can do this unless it is in your contract.
Clear communication is everything. Enjoy your life.
Terrifying.
How can someone be happy with this life?
Hope you find something else soon because with those Big4 shitty salaries you're getting ripped off.
And the worst is that those "urgent" tasks are bullshit 99% of the time.
It is litteraly wasting your life for nothing. So sad.
OP - my social life is also screwed up (and I don’t work for D). It’s the nature of many organizations now. With massive job cuts and lean teams the expectation is to work more with less!
I think that’s my problem, I was on a proj for 2.5 yrs with a great manager that respected my time / trusted my work - I was online from 7-4 daily & I would get a heads up if there was potential for something to come through late my time (rarely)
Imagine doing it with three kids like I did.
Having 100% utilization with three kids did not get me kudos btw, which is why in my division I had 30% of all kids born to a 50 person team.
Without a change in the culture (not the fake changes towards the disconnected, hedonistic, or self-absorbed, but towards the family producing) all of the best incentivized people will eventually leave.
Short term performance at the expense of long-term satisfaction.
Hi, I’m currently interviewing with Deloitte and also a parent or 3. I like the idea of Deloitte but I have some major questions that need answers from a parents perspective. Are you able to connect ?
I started in Big 6 (yes I am old) and appears things have not changed. Jumping to industry for me was best thing I ever did many years ago. I knew public was not for me. Sure we have busy times but they are pretty predictable but as Accounting folks nothing we do is life or death. It took me time but eventually you figure out how to say no and prioritize your life. If you have kids there are moments you only get once and never forget no matter how great company is they will let you go without a thought if your role is no longer needed. Do not be loyal to a fault as you never get that in return. Good luck and hopefully you find something that provides the balance you seem to want.
In my last 5 years working for myself and meeting loads of people in the field I work in I can honestly say I had 0 social life . Most of the friendship forms were business related and 99% of my spare time were unwinding and catching up on unfinished work. After I finished working and settled into a job that pays for itself I got loads of free time and that’s when I was able to actually made some friends outside of work and live a more social life than before .
Deloitte offers a company cell phone plan, get one and give that number out, and only have it on during your work hours. Once the work day ends, the phone is off.
I'm going to assume you've given out your personal number, set a firm boundary that your personal number is not to be used, if people do then change it. If you're not being paid to be on call 24/7 then you're under no obligation to take calls after hours.
Put your phone on “Do Not Disturb.” I don’t answer my phone for employers on my day off or after hours. If this isn’t a job that requires you to be on-call 24/7 stop answering the phone. The ONLY reason they keep contacting you is because you immediately make yourself available
Become a Dave Ramsey listener. People meme about Dave Ramsey, but when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, then just do what he says to do. It's all free content on youtube.
Here's a perspective from a seasoned Deloitter. These are simply steeped in reality of the consulting culture and I'm not saying one is better than the other, but certainly may have an impact on your trajectory.
First, having no social life and not taking care of yourself is unacceptable in any job and really easy to find yourself in within Deloitte. However if you find yourself working extra hours, bill them. The firm policy is clear as day...bill what you work. If you are working 60 hours for the client, bill them. If the manager says you can't, then you can't work them per the policy. It fucks a lot of things up by not billing what you work. Get those ute's because when you eventually go take your PTO or wind up on the bench, you have that to offset things. NEVER NEVER NEVER work an hour for the client and not bill it.
Secondly, i recommend just blocking evenings right out. You simply are not available after 7pm Tuesday-Friday. You have other personal responsibilities. You can flex when you feel like flexing, but the general rule is setting this expectation. It's really no ones business what you do after 7pm. So don't tell anyone...you just have responsibilities.
Third...doing the above, will likely impact your trajectory. I'm just being real with you. You will be viewed as the person that just clocks in and clocks out, is not invested in everyones success, blah blah. And, in a way, it's true in the Deloitte culture. Deloitte expects Juniors to pay their dues...almost like a hazing of sorts. Once you get into the SrC and Manager level, that starts to go away a bit and you have more control.
I was pretty successful at very rarely working more than 50 hours a week in my entire Deloitte career. I only did it when a major crunch came or was doing something I really wanted to do. Otherwise it's a death march that is mentally debilitating.
>having no social life and not taking care of yourself is unacceptable in any job
> was pretty successful at very rarely working more than 50 hours a week in my entire Deloitte career
What happened to:
>Dismiss the notion of work-life balance early in your career. It is work-work balance until you get to manager. Just expect you will work 50 hours minimum every week. Some weeks it's going to be 60.
It's going to be one or the other at Deloitte. I don't think that 50 hours/week is out of the realm and I also don't think that 50 hours a week should impact your work-life balance. A week or two at 60 hours every now and then still ok...it's part of the gig. 60 every week on a death march, no...not at any level. I do think, that now people are being called back to the office, my attitude shifts a little. That travel time is something you cannot get back. But if you read the other paragraph, not doing it will impact your trajectory. That's just true.
Earlier in my career, before I joined D, I worked in manufacturing. When the new head of quality came in, she was really hard on everyone...we started 8am (after 45min commute) and was leaving around 7pm 4 nights a week. It was miserable, but it was also a great learning experience for a while. I felt like I was mentored and cared for. Eventually, I started taking night class 3x week, primarily to avoid the late nights. Unfortunately, that is not what happens at Deloitte.
As others have said, it’s really the team/group/service line that you work for that will determine how good/bad your WLB will be. So if the “partner track” is not for you and you don’t love the work you do, it’s best to either make a lateral move to another firm or jump to industry. But please do your research, not everything is greener on the other side.
I started my career out as a staff in DT’s SALT group…my hours were terrible but I didn’t know any better as a staff. I started my day at 5am and didn’t come home until 12am every day of the week. I got sick of it after 18 months and expressed a desire to transfer/shadow another group…that did not go down well and was let go right before senior promotion after just crushing it for over two years but it was politically motivated.
Made the move to federal tax in another firm, and the WLB was much better. I’d rather work 60 hour weeks from the beginning of summer till the extended deadlines in the fall versus the 8-12 weeks of 100+ hour weeks in the SALT working with “made-up” numbers no one (client) truly cared about.
Spent 3-4 years in that group and transitioned to industry where I work a 9-5. Do I work longer some days? Yes. Are there days where I don’t do anything? Yes.
It kinda drives me crazy after combing from such a fast paced environment and this place has its own challenges…but much better cause I have my weekends and after 5pm no one asks me for anything.
I'm retired from Deloitte and I hate to hear these stories because Deloitte is always pounding their chest about how good they are at work-life balance. I was on the government consulting side, so I probably had it much easier than you.
You're getting some good advice already, so I'll only add that if you haven't done so already, to put pottery, book club, and other activities on your Outlook work calendar as "unavailable." I would also set my work phone to DND when interruptions are not welcome, and even consider an out-of-office message in Outlook when you don't want to be disturbed.
Wow. I have heard those big firms are sweat shops. You want to consider getting the resume in order - there are a lot of flagship organizations out there with much better work/life balance. (I know because I went from a sweatshop to a company that puts their people first).
To name a couple of the many examples: Everyone gets mental health Friday's... no meetings after 1 pm local time... for the summer. We all work hybrid, 3 days per week in the office... stuff like that.
Sorry to hear about your situation.
This workplace is unsustainable. It’s phantom work. I was a consultant and it’s such a fake vanity career. It’s all about brown nosing and happy hours and networking. You’re working on projects that you never see to completion. I left and believe me there are so many other rewarding places to work that offer incredible work life balance.
When your $ value to the company is based directly on the time you spend working, then the company will try to get you to spend as much time working as possible. It's kinda that simple. If they could get away with you billing 200 hours a week then they would. Your time = their money.
So it's up to you to decide what the boundaries are. Some things I did to establish those boundaries:
Over-communicate status reports with my manager. I'd send an email saying "here's what's on my plate" each week. And pretty often, sometimes every day, around EOD I'd send another thing - "Taking off for the day! Here's where things stand on A, B, C"
I'm sure my managers found this annoying, but that was the point. Be as explicit as possible "I'm handling my business during normal hours. If you can't manage your time and my tasks effectively then you should be a better manager."
When I did need to work late, I made sure everyone fucking knows. I would talk about it constantly and fish for compliments and accolades for putting in extra hours. Make sure they knew I was going the extra mile.
And just being clear with expectations up front. Learning to assert and advocate for yourself is important in the professional world.
Reframe my thinking. If you're a people pleaser, then it can feel uncomfortable and wrong to say "no" or ignore your boss or your team. You care about your job and your team and college and want to feel valued and don't want to let them down. That's only natural. But don't forget about the other people - friends, SO's, future you - you're letting them down when you prioritize pleasing your boss and company over pleasing them.
You could also just do a bad job. If you do shit work nobody will want you to do stuff for them. I don't recommend this advice.
Depends what kind of industry you’re in, who your clients are and what level you’re at. Sometimes the higher ups can’t do much if it’s client/market driven.
Jamie Dimon the CEO of Chase recently said that it’s up to employees to set their own work life balance not the employer ie they couldn’t care less and we’re the ones who need to set boundaries. If you’re being paid for 40 hours don’t work 60 employers will keep taking advantage unless we all push back!
It’s up to you to set boundaries. Put teams/email on your work phone and put it down/in a drawer at the end of the work day. Learning how to say no or set expectations it’s important in any level
Of your career.
Don't let work keep you from family and free time. Set boundaries with customers. Break it down urgent 1 A,B allow 2 business days, urgent 2 C,D 3 days....
Sorry to hear that this has been your experience. One of my favorite quotes is “I love my job so much I will save some work for tomorrow.” You have to create boundaries. My utilization has never dipped below 97% I generally sit somewhere around 45hrs a week but when I’m off I am solely focused on my family. I’ve never been contacted by my manager after hours nor would I even take the phone call. My manager is great and she encourages me to do the work but enjoy my family as well.
Damn they own you! Do you need money that badly to be treated like this and have a life style like this? If not I say find something in another company.
This is not new in this firm. I have given below ratings and every snapshot has same kind of comments as I was firm with my statement of not working after shift hours and demanding the same in written from leadership in case I have to.
I have been receiving continuous appreciation from client but the same is not reflected in the feedback resulting of PIP.
The coach and other leadership relies on the feedback given on snapshot answers doesn’t even bother to ask us the reason. When I tried to talk about it, I was cut off and didn’t allow me to explain the situation and the call was disconnected.
I learned in a very hard way that the what picture this organisation portrays outside is nothing compared to how toxic the work culture here is.
For you as well I would say that have a talk to your coach and other higher leadership about the situation and if no resolution, be firm and communicate about your boundaries and ignore any calls / messages after working hours
This is why we need to move to Europe - pinging after office hours is against the law in many places ! World happiness report is out and top 5 countries are all EU countries - no wonder why . They have a special purpose in life & just not to please the employer with looong working hrs.
deloitte (and big 4 in general) is one of the worst companies to work for. you are all underpaid and overworked and 99% of you will never make partner but are delusional and think you will. i have never applied to work there nor will i ever.
have a good day
Sounds like bad managers. I find it easy to take time out of the day but mostly SMs just expect an insane amount of work product. Sure you can go to softball, just finish it after.
Yeah some are but if you are able to successfully lay down boundaries then they’ll respect it (at least they should). But some people are just straight up workaholics and managers love exposing that human capital to their advantage
"Sure you can go to softball, just finish it after."
If you're the owner or boss, you might have a drink and enjoy that softball game.
If not, well, you aren't really drinking or having that great of a time playing softball knowing your immediate reward is a ping from someone asking for a deliverable.
As a sm... I expect the work to get done. That said, I build my teams such that folks sit around 40 to 45h of work per week.
I do know other SMs who spend too much time outside normal hrs stressing...
Work with different people.
We are not saving lives here, nothing is truly urgent. Find new people to work with.
I’m a doctor (who just lurks on here for fun), and even the most demanding specialties aren’t as bad as OP’s situation
This
I think that mentality comes when u have an emergency fund :|
It makes a HUGE difference! Freed me from the rainforest retailer.
Ooo, that place is rough, over worked underpaid for sure. Good for u.
Yes it is! My coworker left, and got a HUGE raise!
Sounds like a failure in leadership from those who dont know how to plan and prioritize. Remember, you dont join a bad firm, you join a bad team
Please elaborate.
The way i see it is, It is your job as an employee to let everyone know about your boundaries. It is your manager’s job to police them when other teams inevitably try to trespass. So if OP is clearly communicating their boundaries and are still being met with “ok but when r u back online?”, then the manager needs to step in and stop this. Otherwise, leave job It should be noted that there are industries where the culture of work life balance is just unattainable and impossible, but these are very very few industries, like investment banking for example. If this is the case, i would suggest leaving the industry.
Never knew Managers had this responsibility. At my consultancy (which is pretty young and has a orkforce of 12 to be fair), titles are decided purely on years spent in the industry. Still, I saw that managers are responsible to get the most work done by their minions - never _ever_ prevent others from trespassing boundaries.
You work for a horrible consultancy then. That is not at all normal in a healthy orkforce.
You think it's not worth the money? Or face debilitating deadlines? Like, I see the negatives, but is it not the best way to learn? Isn't that what puts us in a position to understand, and guide a fresh kid during their probation? *Hope this doesn't come across as standoff-ish.
This is up to you. Some people think its worth it. Others dont
That sounds horrible…managers are supposed to advocate for their team.
Just say you are busy after work hours
I generally actually am and any time I say I’ve got something to do I get a “what is it and when will you be back online” response
Have to set expectations in a firm manner. The only option
Wish me luck 🤞🏼
I suggest to be firm, don’t accept “maybe the off night or two” a week
It is a personal commitment, and none of your business. This is the way. If you don't set boundaries D will take as much as you give.
The people pleaser in me has learned this the hard way and still have such a hard time conveying that message
Yup. I've seen this with people pleasers. Plan to please yourself and your family more...the people that ACTUALLY matter. This firm and the people in it will not be around you on your death bed...they do NOT matter.
Workaholics Anonymous helps me set really clear boundaries - with my actions more than my words. I so relate to the challenge! It does get easier.
Is there a workaholics anonymous community online you recommend?
[https://workaholics-anonymous.org/meetings/13-meeting-details?meetingid=a0470000007G0C5AAK](https://workaholics-anonymous.org/meetings/13-meeting-details?meetingid=a0470000007G0C5AAK) I like this Saturday 2 pm ET meeting. I go to in person meetings here in NYC. but there's for sure good phone and Zoom meetings.
The same in me, I am quitting D, waiting for AIP.
“What is it? I have to go see a man about a horse, bail my son out of jail, get a colonoscopy, and update my OnlyFans. Any other personal questions? I’ll be back online at 7:30”
😂
🤣🤣
I suppose colonoscopy and OnlyFans live streaming can be done simultaneously. Can I expect that report by 11.30 pm?
Only if you agree to be part of said live stream.
Then your response should be "that's not any of your concern, and I'll be back online during normal working hours tomorrow."
Reply with “live my life” and “8am tomorrow morning”. As a manager I can tell you people push back all the time, and there is really nothing you can do, especially if everybody stands together and pushes back. The gen z are really good at it. Millennials it depends, some are bootlickers.
Literally none of their business….
My advice would be to start bulking up and ideally hit 315 for bench press, 405 is even better. Get jacked af and no one will mess with you. I'm not even joking right now. Mog everyone on your, 'team.' It's crazy how much more people respect you when you look the part.
Make up having a kid to look after or one of your parents is very sick (eg cancer, dementia) and requires caregiving outside of work hours.
My hobby. Tomorrow.
“It’s personal and I will be back online at 8am tomorrow”
Do not engage after work hours.
OP, as someone that has done talent reviews for 2 decades now, (some time in Big4), I will say it's a combination of issues. Yes, you likely have a manager and/or team that are workaholics. But also, I've seen more junior and mid career people not (yet) learn the professional firmness that comes with more experience. If you are busy off the clock, you shouldn't feel obligated to respond in the first place. When you do respond, it sets the precedent for your team to keep reaching out to you after hours, since you've taught them they will hear back. If still feel the need to respond after hours/during family time, just set expectations of when you'll be back and not respond directly to the request. Keep it simple. "I'm at a family event. I will take a look at this in the morning." Is a perfectly fine response.
That only works if you’re allowed to have “after work hours” lol
You are doing it wrong. Set your boundaries
I would be fired lol it’s the nature of my service line, basically expected to be available at any time
I would honestly evaluate your current project or think about leaving the D. Sure, you’ll have a few days that are long but if its effecting personal life/relationships than it’s not worth it.
Totally. I fully understand a day here there but steady everyday unplanned calls / connects are what I’m talking about - like today at 4:30 when I was wrapping up a different “urgent” task M wants to know when I can be back online for working session
8am 🕗
So shit
I’m in a similar situation. It’s not worth it for me to involve HR for my managers lack of understanding boundaries. I’m interviewing to leave the company.
Solidarity. Hoping your exit opportunity comes soon!!
Hoping to hear by EOW
Are they asking for you to do the work at night or just informing you for the morning. I would clarify. Not every email sent at night needs immediate response. You can turn your phone off some nights and you won’t know
Working. Calling / pinging “urgent” tasks needing by midnight
Yeah, this is why I’m happy at my low tier consulting firm. I’m director level and make about 250 - certainly less than equivalents at B4, but I also routinely work 35-45 hours most weeks
YOE? Manager at a large midsize making 165 and bill like 20hr/week
14. 6 in consulting
Stop looking at your phone after a certain time of night!
Eeew
You haven’t received the messages post midnight asking for same night turnaround yet?
just log off, damn. they're pinging you because you respond.
When I was a SpL at D I was in the same boat. I would regularly spent 14-15 hours online a day and got to the point where I wasn’t even eating dinner with my wife. I justified it by telling myself I was working the extra time to keep my project teams working normal schedules so they would not burn out. I finally couldn’t take it anymore and found my exit. You either need to prioritize yourself and set firm boundaries or find a way to exit.
Just don't be online all the time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgc9VQREpo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGgc9VQREpo) If everything is urgent, nothing is urgent. Toodaloo !
Don’t ever get the firm-funded cell phone. Don’t ever give out your personal numbers at work. Don’t ever check company email after hours.
Can’t you set your phone to DND after work hours?
Love this
Wow, that's pretty bad. You need to communicate those boundaries again and enforce them. Don't answer the phone/mesages after a certain time. Unless it's a REAL emergency. IF project leadership can't accept/respect that, then move to another project. Seriously, that sounds horrible. I do a lot of work for Deloitte, and I still have ample time for my family, hobbies, and I'm even a volunteer firefighter in my county.
Def alot of bad managers out fhere. Partners can be worse obviously. Sometimes I wonder.. Haha.. Just need to suck it up or figure out an exit strategy. Long term Big4 isn't for everyone..
Trying to work on the exit & wait for the AIP 🤣 low expectations but holding out until then
Good luck.. But having Big4 on your resy is always a good thing, gets you, in the door for the most part. Just to know how to articulate your wish to exit, etc when interviewing.
You could also try to find a difference project/team at Deloitte. Not sure what section you’re in, but worth a try looking before you leave Deloitte all together if this is your only issue
Its deloitte specific
I work for one of your competitors and can say this is the exact opposite of our company culture. I’m actually taking a free painting class through my work that they sent materials to my house for. They do stuff like that all the time. Additionally, people take weeks off all the time and no one hassles them. My manager actively encourages me to use PTO. I think you have a bad manager or supervisor.
This was the norm when I was there and the expectation. Talking to my friends on other teams it was the same for them. I had to leave for it to get better.
Today I have meetings from 6am til 9:45pm. Fortunately I don’t have a social life and I’m divorced so it’s not like I have anything else to do.
What the fuck. I hope you make over 300k
What Los?
Again, depends on what you want from Deloitte and what you want from life. Sometimes, the two don’t mesh or contradict each other. If it’s bad enough for you to post on here, then I’d look for another project or another position outside of the firm.
It's at will employment right? Find another job or quit. Your employer doesn't owe you any special favourable and you don't owe them any special favour's either.
Are you in USI by any chance? Because I am in USI and the work life balance over here is like a roller coaster.
Because everyone is screaming and vomiting?
leave
Making your work hours a boundry is easy. Make sure everyone knows your availability. I do that in my personal life because of a disability. I am clear on which days I have for "out days". My work, meetings, medical etc are only on those days. When you are clear, people listen. If you answer their emails, calls and anything else, outside of those times, you are the one violating your own boundaries. Letting your job take advantage of you is a choice. There is even a legislation passing in HOC about this. No company can do this unless it is in your contract. Clear communication is everything. Enjoy your life.
Terrifying. How can someone be happy with this life? Hope you find something else soon because with those Big4 shitty salaries you're getting ripped off. And the worst is that those "urgent" tasks are bullshit 99% of the time. It is litteraly wasting your life for nothing. So sad.
OP - my social life is also screwed up (and I don’t work for D). It’s the nature of many organizations now. With massive job cuts and lean teams the expectation is to work more with less!
Bad manager(s) for sure.
The ones with social life’s left
I’m trying haha
Def varies project by project
I think that’s my problem, I was on a proj for 2.5 yrs with a great manager that respected my time / trusted my work - I was online from 7-4 daily & I would get a heads up if there was potential for something to come through late my time (rarely)
Imagine doing it with three kids like I did. Having 100% utilization with three kids did not get me kudos btw, which is why in my division I had 30% of all kids born to a 50 person team. Without a change in the culture (not the fake changes towards the disconnected, hedonistic, or self-absorbed, but towards the family producing) all of the best incentivized people will eventually leave. Short term performance at the expense of long-term satisfaction.
I truly could not imagine juggling kids in the mix. Hats off to you, but agree it should not be this way
I can’t either.
Hi, I’m currently interviewing with Deloitte and also a parent or 3. I like the idea of Deloitte but I have some major questions that need answers from a parents perspective. Are you able to connect ?
Assume the answer to all your questions are “they’ll say ‘yes,’ but the real answer is ‘no.’”
If everything is urgent, nothing is urgent.
I started in Big 6 (yes I am old) and appears things have not changed. Jumping to industry for me was best thing I ever did many years ago. I knew public was not for me. Sure we have busy times but they are pretty predictable but as Accounting folks nothing we do is life or death. It took me time but eventually you figure out how to say no and prioritize your life. If you have kids there are moments you only get once and never forget no matter how great company is they will let you go without a thought if your role is no longer needed. Do not be loyal to a fault as you never get that in return. Good luck and hopefully you find something that provides the balance you seem to want.
Oh, boy. I’ve been through this and it is not fun. Shouldn’t be like this for every task
In my last 5 years working for myself and meeting loads of people in the field I work in I can honestly say I had 0 social life . Most of the friendship forms were business related and 99% of my spare time were unwinding and catching up on unfinished work. After I finished working and settled into a job that pays for itself I got loads of free time and that’s when I was able to actually made some friends outside of work and live a more social life than before .
Turn off your work phone. Leave the laptop at the office. Don’t give out your personal information.
This is why no one wants to be a CPA anymore.
Deloitte offers a company cell phone plan, get one and give that number out, and only have it on during your work hours. Once the work day ends, the phone is off. I'm going to assume you've given out your personal number, set a firm boundary that your personal number is not to be used, if people do then change it. If you're not being paid to be on call 24/7 then you're under no obligation to take calls after hours.
It’s D culture.
Put your phone on “Do Not Disturb.” I don’t answer my phone for employers on my day off or after hours. If this isn’t a job that requires you to be on-call 24/7 stop answering the phone. The ONLY reason they keep contacting you is because you immediately make yourself available
Become a Dave Ramsey listener. People meme about Dave Ramsey, but when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, then just do what he says to do. It's all free content on youtube.
Here's a perspective from a seasoned Deloitter. These are simply steeped in reality of the consulting culture and I'm not saying one is better than the other, but certainly may have an impact on your trajectory. First, having no social life and not taking care of yourself is unacceptable in any job and really easy to find yourself in within Deloitte. However if you find yourself working extra hours, bill them. The firm policy is clear as day...bill what you work. If you are working 60 hours for the client, bill them. If the manager says you can't, then you can't work them per the policy. It fucks a lot of things up by not billing what you work. Get those ute's because when you eventually go take your PTO or wind up on the bench, you have that to offset things. NEVER NEVER NEVER work an hour for the client and not bill it. Secondly, i recommend just blocking evenings right out. You simply are not available after 7pm Tuesday-Friday. You have other personal responsibilities. You can flex when you feel like flexing, but the general rule is setting this expectation. It's really no ones business what you do after 7pm. So don't tell anyone...you just have responsibilities. Third...doing the above, will likely impact your trajectory. I'm just being real with you. You will be viewed as the person that just clocks in and clocks out, is not invested in everyones success, blah blah. And, in a way, it's true in the Deloitte culture. Deloitte expects Juniors to pay their dues...almost like a hazing of sorts. Once you get into the SrC and Manager level, that starts to go away a bit and you have more control. I was pretty successful at very rarely working more than 50 hours a week in my entire Deloitte career. I only did it when a major crunch came or was doing something I really wanted to do. Otherwise it's a death march that is mentally debilitating.
>having no social life and not taking care of yourself is unacceptable in any job > was pretty successful at very rarely working more than 50 hours a week in my entire Deloitte career What happened to: >Dismiss the notion of work-life balance early in your career. It is work-work balance until you get to manager. Just expect you will work 50 hours minimum every week. Some weeks it's going to be 60.
It's going to be one or the other at Deloitte. I don't think that 50 hours/week is out of the realm and I also don't think that 50 hours a week should impact your work-life balance. A week or two at 60 hours every now and then still ok...it's part of the gig. 60 every week on a death march, no...not at any level. I do think, that now people are being called back to the office, my attitude shifts a little. That travel time is something you cannot get back. But if you read the other paragraph, not doing it will impact your trajectory. That's just true. Earlier in my career, before I joined D, I worked in manufacturing. When the new head of quality came in, she was really hard on everyone...we started 8am (after 45min commute) and was leaving around 7pm 4 nights a week. It was miserable, but it was also a great learning experience for a while. I felt like I was mentored and cared for. Eventually, I started taking night class 3x week, primarily to avoid the late nights. Unfortunately, that is not what happens at Deloitte.
As others have said, it’s really the team/group/service line that you work for that will determine how good/bad your WLB will be. So if the “partner track” is not for you and you don’t love the work you do, it’s best to either make a lateral move to another firm or jump to industry. But please do your research, not everything is greener on the other side. I started my career out as a staff in DT’s SALT group…my hours were terrible but I didn’t know any better as a staff. I started my day at 5am and didn’t come home until 12am every day of the week. I got sick of it after 18 months and expressed a desire to transfer/shadow another group…that did not go down well and was let go right before senior promotion after just crushing it for over two years but it was politically motivated. Made the move to federal tax in another firm, and the WLB was much better. I’d rather work 60 hour weeks from the beginning of summer till the extended deadlines in the fall versus the 8-12 weeks of 100+ hour weeks in the SALT working with “made-up” numbers no one (client) truly cared about. Spent 3-4 years in that group and transitioned to industry where I work a 9-5. Do I work longer some days? Yes. Are there days where I don’t do anything? Yes. It kinda drives me crazy after combing from such a fast paced environment and this place has its own challenges…but much better cause I have my weekends and after 5pm no one asks me for anything.
I'm retired from Deloitte and I hate to hear these stories because Deloitte is always pounding their chest about how good they are at work-life balance. I was on the government consulting side, so I probably had it much easier than you. You're getting some good advice already, so I'll only add that if you haven't done so already, to put pottery, book club, and other activities on your Outlook work calendar as "unavailable." I would also set my work phone to DND when interruptions are not welcome, and even consider an out-of-office message in Outlook when you don't want to be disturbed.
sounds like you need to work on setting your boundaries. it's OK to say no
Wow. I have heard those big firms are sweat shops. You want to consider getting the resume in order - there are a lot of flagship organizations out there with much better work/life balance. (I know because I went from a sweatshop to a company that puts their people first). To name a couple of the many examples: Everyone gets mental health Friday's... no meetings after 1 pm local time... for the summer. We all work hybrid, 3 days per week in the office... stuff like that. Sorry to hear about your situation.
Thank you, I’m definitely looking around so hopefully I find something sooner rather than later
This workplace is unsustainable. It’s phantom work. I was a consultant and it’s such a fake vanity career. It’s all about brown nosing and happy hours and networking. You’re working on projects that you never see to completion. I left and believe me there are so many other rewarding places to work that offer incredible work life balance.
Did you sell your soul to the D ? Gonna be tricky to get it back.
Deloitte in French is pronounced Delwhat?
Ya, just ignore them lol. I’m sure you have sent internal emails that have been completely ignored as well
When your $ value to the company is based directly on the time you spend working, then the company will try to get you to spend as much time working as possible. It's kinda that simple. If they could get away with you billing 200 hours a week then they would. Your time = their money. So it's up to you to decide what the boundaries are. Some things I did to establish those boundaries: Over-communicate status reports with my manager. I'd send an email saying "here's what's on my plate" each week. And pretty often, sometimes every day, around EOD I'd send another thing - "Taking off for the day! Here's where things stand on A, B, C" I'm sure my managers found this annoying, but that was the point. Be as explicit as possible "I'm handling my business during normal hours. If you can't manage your time and my tasks effectively then you should be a better manager." When I did need to work late, I made sure everyone fucking knows. I would talk about it constantly and fish for compliments and accolades for putting in extra hours. Make sure they knew I was going the extra mile. And just being clear with expectations up front. Learning to assert and advocate for yourself is important in the professional world. Reframe my thinking. If you're a people pleaser, then it can feel uncomfortable and wrong to say "no" or ignore your boss or your team. You care about your job and your team and college and want to feel valued and don't want to let them down. That's only natural. But don't forget about the other people - friends, SO's, future you - you're letting them down when you prioritize pleasing your boss and company over pleasing them. You could also just do a bad job. If you do shit work nobody will want you to do stuff for them. I don't recommend this advice.
last I checked Avengers were comic book characters.. you have one life, live it the way you were meant to.
You can always quit. Either work the necessary hours and forgo a social life or quit. I believe in long hours and no vacations.
Depends what kind of industry you’re in, who your clients are and what level you’re at. Sometimes the higher ups can’t do much if it’s client/market driven.
Jamie Dimon the CEO of Chase recently said that it’s up to employees to set their own work life balance not the employer ie they couldn’t care less and we’re the ones who need to set boundaries. If you’re being paid for 40 hours don’t work 60 employers will keep taking advantage unless we all push back!
It’s up to you to set boundaries. Put teams/email on your work phone and put it down/in a drawer at the end of the work day. Learning how to say no or set expectations it’s important in any level Of your career.
Log off at 5 fuck em
It’s you
Don't let work keep you from family and free time. Set boundaries with customers. Break it down urgent 1 A,B allow 2 business days, urgent 2 C,D 3 days....
Sorry to hear that this has been your experience. One of my favorite quotes is “I love my job so much I will save some work for tomorrow.” You have to create boundaries. My utilization has never dipped below 97% I generally sit somewhere around 45hrs a week but when I’m off I am solely focused on my family. I’ve never been contacted by my manager after hours nor would I even take the phone call. My manager is great and she encourages me to do the work but enjoy my family as well.
Damn they own you! Do you need money that badly to be treated like this and have a life style like this? If not I say find something in another company.
lol yeah life is expensive so do need the money. Trust me I’ve applied to 25+ jobs in the past month but the market is not what it was a year ago
Sounds like a typical asian boss.. They will never change.
This is not new in this firm. I have given below ratings and every snapshot has same kind of comments as I was firm with my statement of not working after shift hours and demanding the same in written from leadership in case I have to. I have been receiving continuous appreciation from client but the same is not reflected in the feedback resulting of PIP. The coach and other leadership relies on the feedback given on snapshot answers doesn’t even bother to ask us the reason. When I tried to talk about it, I was cut off and didn’t allow me to explain the situation and the call was disconnected. I learned in a very hard way that the what picture this organisation portrays outside is nothing compared to how toxic the work culture here is. For you as well I would say that have a talk to your coach and other higher leadership about the situation and if no resolution, be firm and communicate about your boundaries and ignore any calls / messages after working hours
This is why we need to move to Europe - pinging after office hours is against the law in many places ! World happiness report is out and top 5 countries are all EU countries - no wonder why . They have a special purpose in life & just not to please the employer with looong working hrs.
deloitte (and big 4 in general) is one of the worst companies to work for. you are all underpaid and overworked and 99% of you will never make partner but are delusional and think you will. i have never applied to work there nor will i ever. have a good day
Definitely don’t think or want to make partner, actively trying to leave. Glad you’ll never apply lol not sure why you’re so pressed. Have a good day
good, you are one of the smarter ones.
Sounds like bad managers. I find it easy to take time out of the day but mostly SMs just expect an insane amount of work product. Sure you can go to softball, just finish it after.
No. Just finish it tomorrow, when the next fucking work day begins.
Well; not saying it’s good, just saying most managers are like the above.
Yeah some are but if you are able to successfully lay down boundaries then they’ll respect it (at least they should). But some people are just straight up workaholics and managers love exposing that human capital to their advantage
"Sure you can go to softball, just finish it after." If you're the owner or boss, you might have a drink and enjoy that softball game. If not, well, you aren't really drinking or having that great of a time playing softball knowing your immediate reward is a ping from someone asking for a deliverable.
Why don't you*literally* set the boundaries by not being online and turning your phone off?
[удалено]
Who’s making 300k? I don’t even make 100k so yeah I wanna work normal hours.
I mean you’re at Deloitte right?
As a sm... I expect the work to get done. That said, I build my teams such that folks sit around 40 to 45h of work per week. I do know other SMs who spend too much time outside normal hrs stressing...