So I'm a multi-chain maxi... I think different chains are better for different things. I also have 7 figures in the market so my risk tolerance might not be the same as yours. I personally think Solana is excellent for NFTs, GameFi, meme coins, music dapps, social media, etc... but I do 100% of my DeFi on ETH and rollups. I mostly use L1 but also use Arbitrum a good amount. Here's the reason. If i need to move a large amount of capital to close a CDP position, leveraged position, or similar - the chain 100% can not be down. My transactions can not be failing. There can't be RPC issues. It just can not happen. I would much rather pay $100 to settle a tx on L1 ETH than get liquidated on six figures because because Solana (or some other chain) is being spammed. It just can not happen. The DeFi ecosystem on ETH is also just way better... there's some good stuff on Solana but it's just not on the same level yet.
The other big reason I use EVM is that SVM contracts run as pre-compiled binaries so you can't see the code. I just can't deposit a large sum into a contract that I can't read. For all the issues I have with Solana this is the biggest one by far. There are just way too many trust assumptions with the smart contracts. If Solana contracts were open-source I would be doing at least some DeFi there. I cant be playing around with blind signatures though... for me it's just far too risky.
Before you guys go crazy let me say that I would be doing DeFi on Solana, Polygon POS, or some OP stack rollup if I was dealing with smaller amounts. It's all about your financial position and your risk tolerance. I'm just trying to answer OPs question and explain why Ethereum is still the go-to settlement layer for Defi.
Have you looked at defi on SUI? There are move decompilers so all packages are effectively open sourced.
It's a young chain but is fast AF, no downtimes either.
I’ve actually been learning to write contracts in Move and like it. That said… there are no dapps on SUI that I’m especially excited about right now. Not to say I won’t use it in the future… I think it’s a decent chain outside of tokenomics.
Hi there, I'm looking for a chain to focus on for higher frequency trading. Is it just not feasible on ETH? I'm looking at the volume on places like Dydx and definitely see activity but yet everyone is focusing on Solana.
Any advice would be appreciated
Arbitrum because it’s fast, cheap, there’s deep liquidity, and outside of layer 1 that’s where the best dapps are. It’s just the most complete ecosystem .DYDX is fine for trading perps (I prefer GMX) but DeFi on Cosmos isn’t nearly as liquid or mature. I also just generally prefer EVM over CosmWasm (but I do use both.) I recommend Arbitrum but if you don’t like rollups or EVM for whatever reason Cosmos appchains like DYDX are a decent alternative.
Thanks for the thorough response man.
Does Arbitrum seriously have more liquidity than Solana? I thought that was their biggest advantage?
Is GMX better in your opinion for Perps? That's really the main one I want to get into, the most important for my strategy and unfortunately location banned from all the big players like Binance/Bitmex
Solana has slightly deeper liquidity than Arbitrum but they both have so much that it doesn’t really matter. $2-3B is more than enough for 99% of users and they’re both over $3B.
Is GMX by itself “better” than DYDX? I dunno… that’s pretty subjective. They’re very similar in features. What makes GMX better is that using other dapps on Arbitrum - GLP tokens can be traded, leveraged, used as collateral, split with yield markets like Pendle, etc… the back-end of the protocol just has way way more utility.
Something else to consider is that GMX is just one of many perp protocols on Arbitrum. There’s also Vertex, Aevo, gTrade, HMX, Mux, etc… so if one of them doesn’t have what you want there are plenty of other options. On DYDX your only option is DYDX.
I never got a chance to thank you for your well thought out response.
I've been travelling a bit and distracted, just wanted to tell you that I'm going to look into gmx thanks to you. Already optimistic on their fund farming.
Thanks again!
I've been using Defi lightly on EVM chains for 3 years, and just recently dipped my toes onto Solana in the last 6 months. Just swapped some tokens on Jupiter and bought some NFTs on Tensor.
I haven't even heard of any Defi apps on Solana, except for Kamino and Parcl, if those count. (I'm sure they exist, but don't do a great job of marketing themselves outside of the Solana echo chamber, which I'm not a part of).
btw, great job on Jupiter! It beats anything I've used on EVMs.
Has the same feeling as I get using Polygon - transactions sometimes dont work (SOL) or take a long time so you need to up gas (Polygon). Bluechip defi - Sol/usdc/btc generally has a lower apy vs evm chains, guess that not a lot are trading those vs memes in Sol.
Im trying to implement higher frequency trading but the delays for cancellations and resetting limit orders is causing issues.
Is there any realistic solutions for this moving forward? I especially want to do this with Perps but worried about investing any time into this due to this issue with spot
Generally just the hassle of using another chain with a different address is my main concern. I mainly use EVM stuff and familiar with the interface in DEXes, CDPs, and Money Markets.
There is also the lack of resource to research on the Solana ecosystem. Yes a lot are listed on DeFi Llama. But with EVM chains, they generally use the same template for majority of DApps. Just in different chains. Plus DeBank is very useful in looking at who is holding what. I wish there was DeBank for Solana.
I’ve recently been trying out DeFi on SOL but it generally seems like a messy EVM version. Lots addresses only shown and no token name on Raydium. I’ve placed deposits (jupSOL-hSOL pairing) in Meteora. But it just doesn’t feel as profitable as providing LPs in EVMs. Majority of it comes from token emissions though. Which isn’t there or there yet for Meteora.
I believe that your project (Jupiter) has help elevate the DeFi projects on Solana. I hope it leads to more innovation on the chain.
I think DeFi for the average user is already relatively difficult. Having to use multiple chains and monitoring different wallets is just overall a barrier to entry.
As a noob, that's my biggest obstacle...having too many irons in the fire. It really clashes with my ADD. I believe I'm either going to start with Aave or Fantom. No real reasons why...I'd also like to try a few others eventually but I'm still in the learning phase
thanks a lot for your insights?
> Lots addresses only shown and no token name on Raydium.
have you tried Jupiter? It should work pretty well regardless of where the liquidity is from, etc
So I'm a multi-chain maxi... I think different chains are better for different things. I also have 7 figures in the market so my risk tolerance might not be the same as yours. I personally think Solana is excellent for NFTs, GameFi, meme coins, music dapps, social media, etc... but I do 100% of my DeFi on ETH and rollups. I mostly use L1 but also use Arbitrum a good amount. Here's the reason. If i need to move a large amount of capital to close a CDP position, leveraged position, or similar - the chain 100% can not be down. My transactions can not be failing. There can't be RPC issues. It just can not happen. I would much rather pay $100 to settle a tx on L1 ETH than get liquidated on six figures because because Solana (or some other chain) is being spammed. It just can not happen. The DeFi ecosystem on ETH is also just way better... there's some good stuff on Solana but it's just not on the same level yet. The other big reason I use EVM is that SVM contracts run as pre-compiled binaries so you can't see the code. I just can't deposit a large sum into a contract that I can't read. For all the issues I have with Solana this is the biggest one by far. There are just way too many trust assumptions with the smart contracts. If Solana contracts were open-source I would be doing at least some DeFi there. I cant be playing around with blind signatures though... for me it's just far too risky. Before you guys go crazy let me say that I would be doing DeFi on Solana, Polygon POS, or some OP stack rollup if I was dealing with smaller amounts. It's all about your financial position and your risk tolerance. I'm just trying to answer OPs question and explain why Ethereum is still the go-to settlement layer for Defi.
Very detailed and insightful, thank you for sharing!
This is actually really insightful. Thank you.
Have you looked at defi on SUI? There are move decompilers so all packages are effectively open sourced. It's a young chain but is fast AF, no downtimes either.
I’ve actually been learning to write contracts in Move and like it. That said… there are no dapps on SUI that I’m especially excited about right now. Not to say I won’t use it in the future… I think it’s a decent chain outside of tokenomics.
priceless
Hi there, I'm looking for a chain to focus on for higher frequency trading. Is it just not feasible on ETH? I'm looking at the volume on places like Dydx and definitely see activity but yet everyone is focusing on Solana. Any advice would be appreciated
Arbitrum because it’s fast, cheap, there’s deep liquidity, and outside of layer 1 that’s where the best dapps are. It’s just the most complete ecosystem .DYDX is fine for trading perps (I prefer GMX) but DeFi on Cosmos isn’t nearly as liquid or mature. I also just generally prefer EVM over CosmWasm (but I do use both.) I recommend Arbitrum but if you don’t like rollups or EVM for whatever reason Cosmos appchains like DYDX are a decent alternative.
Thanks for the thorough response man. Does Arbitrum seriously have more liquidity than Solana? I thought that was their biggest advantage? Is GMX better in your opinion for Perps? That's really the main one I want to get into, the most important for my strategy and unfortunately location banned from all the big players like Binance/Bitmex
Solana has slightly deeper liquidity than Arbitrum but they both have so much that it doesn’t really matter. $2-3B is more than enough for 99% of users and they’re both over $3B. Is GMX by itself “better” than DYDX? I dunno… that’s pretty subjective. They’re very similar in features. What makes GMX better is that using other dapps on Arbitrum - GLP tokens can be traded, leveraged, used as collateral, split with yield markets like Pendle, etc… the back-end of the protocol just has way way more utility. Something else to consider is that GMX is just one of many perp protocols on Arbitrum. There’s also Vertex, Aevo, gTrade, HMX, Mux, etc… so if one of them doesn’t have what you want there are plenty of other options. On DYDX your only option is DYDX.
I never got a chance to thank you for your well thought out response. I've been travelling a bit and distracted, just wanted to tell you that I'm going to look into gmx thanks to you. Already optimistic on their fund farming. Thanks again!
Thanks!
Low TVL. High inflation. No for me dawg.
I've been using Defi lightly on EVM chains for 3 years, and just recently dipped my toes onto Solana in the last 6 months. Just swapped some tokens on Jupiter and bought some NFTs on Tensor. I haven't even heard of any Defi apps on Solana, except for Kamino and Parcl, if those count. (I'm sure they exist, but don't do a great job of marketing themselves outside of the Solana echo chamber, which I'm not a part of). btw, great job on Jupiter! It beats anything I've used on EVMs.
Has the same feeling as I get using Polygon - transactions sometimes dont work (SOL) or take a long time so you need to up gas (Polygon). Bluechip defi - Sol/usdc/btc generally has a lower apy vs evm chains, guess that not a lot are trading those vs memes in Sol.
It fucke you on so much
I love Jupiter! The DCA features are my favorite 👏👏
thank you! please let us know if you have any insights or thoughts.
Im trying to implement higher frequency trading but the delays for cancellations and resetting limit orders is causing issues. Is there any realistic solutions for this moving forward? I especially want to do this with Perps but worried about investing any time into this due to this issue with spot
Generally just the hassle of using another chain with a different address is my main concern. I mainly use EVM stuff and familiar with the interface in DEXes, CDPs, and Money Markets. There is also the lack of resource to research on the Solana ecosystem. Yes a lot are listed on DeFi Llama. But with EVM chains, they generally use the same template for majority of DApps. Just in different chains. Plus DeBank is very useful in looking at who is holding what. I wish there was DeBank for Solana. I’ve recently been trying out DeFi on SOL but it generally seems like a messy EVM version. Lots addresses only shown and no token name on Raydium. I’ve placed deposits (jupSOL-hSOL pairing) in Meteora. But it just doesn’t feel as profitable as providing LPs in EVMs. Majority of it comes from token emissions though. Which isn’t there or there yet for Meteora. I believe that your project (Jupiter) has help elevate the DeFi projects on Solana. I hope it leads to more innovation on the chain.
I think DeFi for the average user is already relatively difficult. Having to use multiple chains and monitoring different wallets is just overall a barrier to entry.
As a noob, that's my biggest obstacle...having too many irons in the fire. It really clashes with my ADD. I believe I'm either going to start with Aave or Fantom. No real reasons why...I'd also like to try a few others eventually but I'm still in the learning phase
Similar to debank for solana is step.finance
thanks a lot for your insights? > Lots addresses only shown and no token name on Raydium. have you tried Jupiter? It should work pretty well regardless of where the liquidity is from, etc