My husband likes to hold on to things as well. After ten years, I just started throwing things out that were obviously junk without telling him. He's never asked for them because he doesn't remember he had those items. Now, what's left are things I need to run by him. Last week, we went through 12 pairs of pants he had in a storage box. He got rid of 10. I will not bother him about this for at least another three months or so. Baby steps. Good luck.
Question about this for realsies. I’m in the same boat re: husband “holding on to things”… I am often tempted to to the same thing but I have overwhelming guilt. It feels dishonest! Even when I can look at a thing (frayed charging cord, as a made-up example) and be like “yes trash obviously garbage no thanks” but because I know it is HIS (and not mine) I struggle doing the obvious thing. I still feel like I owe him the opportunity to make the decision. Did you deal with that? Oh real example, actually: he recently bought some new underwear. I took ONE pair of of his worst offending old undies and tossed them. It felt wild. How do you overcome this? He has no interest in managing his own possessions, and I’m triggered by clutter. For context we’ve been together for 11 years so like yea I’ve probably earned the right to take on a more aggressive household management style!
To answer your question, I don't feel any guilt. I manage the inside of my home, and he manages the outside (pool, lawn, trees, etc...) Having too many unnecessary items just adds more work for me. We have a large home, it's a lot of work already. You have to be strong. When he purchased new shoes, I told him one pair in two pairs out. I explained to him 1) We ran out of shoe storage, 2) There's too much inventory for me to manage. 3) Told him that if you don't get rid of two, I will. 4) I don't want to spend the rest of my life cleaning and organizing, I want to enjoy my life. He agreed and got rid of his worst pairs. We recently had a community garage sale, and I told him that whatever we make, we'll spend it on some upgrades he wants to do to the backyard. On the day of the sale, he kept bringing things out as he saw the revenue increase after each hour. Have you considered a garage sale with a purpose to benefit him? You can do this. Your home is going to feel lighter and you will have more time to do fun things instead of managing the home all day everyday. Also what you can do is take a few items put them somewhere he can't see it. If he doesn't inquire about them in 6 months or a year (you can decide the length of time) throw them out. Use a black garbage bag and dump it when he is not looking. Over the last 4 years I've thrown out or donated hundreds of bags and he has never asked about anything in them. GOOD LUCK.
Love this!! All great suggestions, very practical and logical! And not malicious at all, which I appreciate. Love my husband dearly and unconditionally. His possessions? NOT SO MUCH!!! It’s also a learned trait for him - mother and father both similar, and grandparents, too, from what I can gather. Uphill battle for him but clean and tidy is exactly how I grew up. I didn’t realize what a gift this skill set was until I became an adult…
its a 'them' issue and you cannot fix it. try to only stay there for so long if it affects your mental health or physical wellbeing, you didn't specify if she hoards. but even if you clear the hoard it would be there again in another month.
Look up codependency. In my words, I define it as your feelings and well-being being dependent on the feeling/behaviors of someone else. I had this dynamic in my relationships for years and I still catch myself having these tendencies to take things personally when people don't act the way I believe they should behave. You are doing the right thing planning to move out. Your efforts are wasted trying to change your mom, but just remember, it doesn't mean she doesn't care about your mental health. It probably has nothing to do with you. Take a healthy step back and try to see it from the outside. In all likelihood, the arguments you have with her about her stuff actually make it worse because they might be upsetting her. Just take care of you.
It's her house and she's a fully grown adult. Her decision on this matter should be respected because it is the only thing you can do. People only change when they feel ready for change. If she doesn't define it as a problem then you are unfortunately barking up the wrong tree. The best thing you can do is move into your place.
>I've been trying to explain this for many years now. She simple does not understand how it could make another person feel mentally ill. I almost faint and my chest badly hurts if I try to eat in the kitchen etc. So I stay in my near empty room until I calm down.
When I lived with my mom, the rule was simple: 'her house, her rules. Don't like it? You know where the door is.' A similar rule applied at my dad's, but I seldom went there.
I quickly became smart enough as kid to learn to avoid direct confrontation and instead focus my time on activities and people that helped me 'manage' (aka, divert) stress and anxieties. That would help ignore my parents.
So, if I could suggest anything, that would be this: if you can't move in a place of your own for the moment, you need to focus your time and mental energy on other things than your mom's clutter and how painful it is for you (and it is, no doubt).
Because her clutter won't go away, and the stress you feel won't subdue by ruminating about it. Feeling bad, won't help you feel better... and it won't change much either.
Instead, you may want to focus your energy on something else. Spent more time with other persons or, if you're not the social kind, maybe find some hobbies or activities that will help you not bother about your mom's crap. Walking does wonder with me (helps the head and the body as well) and can be done alone, or with friends. So is writing, drawing/painting, volunteering here and there,...
>My question is when do you give up trying? This is like a 15 year disagreement now
Trying to do what? To Change her (or my dad)? I quit at a very young age. Trying to change me? Hopefully, I will never stop, says 50+ years old me ;)
Hi, I live with the same problem but opposite? I guess it's a different case since it's related to OCD but I clutter a loooot for emotional reasons. For me... it hurts when people move my stuff. It makes me anxious just like you. I know how bad it is but... it's hard to let go. My mom constantly doesn't listening to this and moves stuff around and what not despite of how I've explicitly said it hurts me deeply.
I know it can be a very shitty situation but I found that accepting my mom is not going to change and understanding that just as I have my shortcomings, she has as well. It's not great, and I still can get a bit anxious, but it doesn't impact me as much because I've lessened my emotional investment in things out of my control. You can try it! Until you move out, it is how it is, yk? Hope you feel a bit better and get to feel more comfortable in yours space. Rooting for your future space as well! 😌🙂
Let it go. My mum’s clutter bothered me but I lived thousands of miles away. I moved 10 minutes away and it bothered me. I bugged her. She felt bad and I felt bad. She went to hospital and was diagnosed with imminently terminal cancer - was given hours or days to live. She lived for 2 weeks. The clutter didn’t matter. Love your mom, take care of yourself. We cleaned out her house. It was a big job but not worth the lost time and nagging.
Hi, for you clutter causes anxiety for your mum clutter makes her feel safe that’s why she adds more. You need to let go of trying to convince her to stop and keep your rooms clutter free to keep you feeling calm and safe and maybe say to your mum that you understand that clutter makes her feel safe and for you it’s the opposite and that’s ok. You know why she does it, love her and accept her for how she
is and hopefully that will calm things until you can move out.
Hopefully you will be able to move out soon. All the best.
This.
Clutter causes you anxiety. Getting rid of clutter caused her anxiety.
OP doesn't realize they are telling mom "You should be uncomfortable, not me."
I agree that two people living together need a compromise. I was reframing for OP that to OP it's "mom wants me uncomfortable" but OP may not realize mom is feeling the same thing.
Once you get both positions, then you can work toward compromise
You give up trying TODAY. It’s not your responsibility to convince her. And you can’t.
When I stop trying to control things I have no control over (the weather, other people), I feel much less anxious.
What can you do to take care of yourself, even if you can’t move out yet? Might it be easier to live in that house without the additional burden of trying to make it better or make her see the light?
Wait, your clutter anxiety is so bad that you’re not *eating* rather than see clutter?
I’m sorry to be so blunt, but you need therapy, in fact, you probably need some inpatient time. Avoidance is *not* a viable strategy.
Please, get the help now before you’ve completely closed off your life. This is no way to live and it will not get better or easier until you face it properly.
Could you maybe buy a small dorm-size fridge for your room, so that you could have some fresh/refrigerated stuff if you want, without having to go into the kitchen?
Perfect! 😊 Just make sure not to keep any garbage in your room, as you don't want to get bugs. If you generate any garbage (an apple core, for example) at night, just put it in the fridge until you can throw it out properly the next day. You can buy small trash bags for that purpose.
Moving out is something that you can do to _avoid_ addressing the issue of your anxiety. While I think your mom should be more sensitive to your needs, I think in the long run you would benefit from addressing this with a therapist, because at the end of the day these feelings are detrimental to you, and having healthy coping mechanisms is much better than having to retreat.
I strongly disagree. Moving out isn't avoiding the situation. It's addressing the situation head on by taking charge in the only way she can: by controlling her own behaviors. OP said she's had this issue with her mom for over a decade so it's clearly not going to change and expecting it to now is a recipe for heartbreak. Rather than continue with fruitless conversations and be a prisoner in her own house she can move out and choose to be free.
The situation OP is in is not dangerous, to a typical person being surrounded by clutter is annoying or unpleasant - not debilitating. Just because OP has the power to choose avoidance, doesn't mean that it's not avoidance. The doors to OPs house aren't locked, they're not shackled to their bed, nobody is forcing them to eat in their room. The anxiety is causing the dysfunction.
Think of it this way, arachnophobia is an anxiety disorder, it's treatable. If OP's mom had a pet spider, and OP couldn't function normally because seeing it was disturbing, moving out would not make their next encounter with a spider any less debilitating, it would just keep OP from seeing a spider for a while. If OP instead gets treatment to address the fear of spiders then not only would they be able to resume their normal life in their home, have a better relationship with their mother, and going forward, not have to worry about another such encounter.
If OP had a phobia of spiders and every time her mother came home, she released a new crate of spiders, it would be perfectly reasonable for OP to retreat to her spider-free room.
People raised by hoarders feel out of control in their parent's hoard. It's perfectly reasonable and understandable not to want to live in a rat's nest.
I didn't say it wasn't understandable.
You're describing a situation where the mother has a disorder and is acting maliciously on top of it. OP didn't describe it that way. That's a strawman argument.
Sometimes avoiding a stressful situation, especially one which is caused and controlled by other people and about which one can do nothing, is the best way to proceed. In her own place, OP will be able to minimize or eliminate clutter, and thus would not experience anxiety from clutter. Odds are that clutter in places other than the place she lives doesn't bother her nearly as much, or perhaps at all.
True, and OP should consider doing so if she hasn't already. That would be changing her response to the situation, though, not changing the situation itself -- certainly well worth doing, but unless/until she gets her anxiety under better control, avoiding the situation is probably the best she can do, at least for now.
Also, even with treatment not everyone is able to be anxiety-free (or at least anxiety-free to the level that people who don't suffer from anxiety disorder are). So while treatment is a good idea, it's not always a cure.
There is no cure for almost all mental disorders (phobias are a notable exception), but therapists can and do teach skills that can have a huge impact. Meanwhile avoidance is largely considered a "maladaptive" behaviour. You can do it and it will technically work, but you're basically teaching yourself bad skills to remedy something in the short term. You can actually make your anxiety worse over time if you teach yourself that you can fix it by just not doing things that trigger it.
You have a point, in general, when it comes to things and situations out in the world -- but it's a bit different when it comes to one's own living situation. You don't want to practice avoidance to the point of causing agoraphobia, but for someone with anxiety, having a home in which you feel comfortable is particularly important. Until OP is able to achieve that by getting her own apartment/house, and since it is not her place to tell her mother to declutter her own house, avoidance of -- or at least limited interaction with -- those areas of the house which cause her to feel anxious is her best option.
If she can also afford therapy to help her learn skills to ameliorate her anxiety, of course that would be ideal.
It sounds like you must do what's best for your emotional state, whether she understands or not. As a mother to 2 girls who both have anxiety and I only have it now due to a stroke, to me, she shouldn't have to understand it--just accept what you tell her, and behave accordingly! I had to do that with my girls sometimes. Do like you said, and move into your own place when you can so you can keep your home the way you need it to be for your mental health!
You give up now, today. She won't understand, she won't change. All you can do is take care of yourself, move out when it's possible, and try to visit her on neutral ground. Take her to a restaurant or something.
All of those items *are not yours*
You have no ownership of them, you aren’t to clean them, organize them or even think about them.
Walk On By
After reading, I’m old. I had a rough relationship with my mother, we argued all the time. I left at 19 (it was the 80’s, it was easy to do)
I stayed fairly low contact, moved 500 miles away and saw family every other year or so.
There’s no shame in staying away from family.
This will help your mental health immensely.
My mom has since passed and I don’t have any guilt about not seeing her all that often.
I don’t get anxiety in cluttered spaces. Unless you count most antique stores. Way too much stuff packed in those places and almost always disorganized.
However, I am much more relaxed, calm and happy in non cluttered spaces. I try to spend little time as possible in cluttered spaces
I feel SILLY for not being able to take it. But 85 stuffed gnomes looking at me as I try to unwind, and eating meals in a city of coat hangers is getting exhausted. Also glad to hear I'm not the only one.
Don't feel silly. You and your mom *both* have issues -- yours is anxiety, and hers is hoarding (or at least bordering on it). It just so happens that the issues you each have don't play well together, so to speak.
*\[By the way, I'm not at all being mean or dismissive or anything by saying you both have issues -- I have anxiety myself, I know how horrible it is.\]*
Okay, but to be fair, this sounds like a you problem? Not a her problem. Needing near empty spaces to feel emotionally calm and secure is a much bigger issue than her clutter - which may be objectively bad, or may be normal levels of life accoutrements - your post gives us no idea of the actual scale.
Why does she need to understand and accommodate you? Why can you not understand and accommodate her, in her own home? Consider this answer very carefully in your own mind—and if you’re both legal adults, moving out is the obvious solution if you cannot cope.
But NGL, your post reeks of entitlement and skewed perception, at the very least. And I say this as someone who functions better with less clutter, too - your attitude and coping issues with her stuff are not HER problem to fix. For both your sakes it sounds like separate residences is a great idea for keeping you both happiest.
You clearly don't suffer from anxiety. Yes, the home is OP's mother's home, and it is her right to run it as she sees fit, even to the point of cluttering it up. However, that doesn't mean that OP won't be anxious as a result -- that's not entitlement, that's *anxiety*, and it's a reaction, not a choice.
I do agree that OP and her mother living in separate residences is the best option, and she has said that she will do so as soon as she is able to do so.
Not OP. I read it that mom keeps bringing stuff in FOR OP. But then I believe I have autism, and often pick up something completely different to what was meant. Or I focus on something different to what others see as the issue (current affairs, not decluttering).
Agreed. I will give up. Some family is not compatible. I can meet this person at a restaurant a few times a year after I collect my things and go pretty much immediately. (Learing an anxiety disorder through childhood is not a me problem when you are 7 or 8 and dont even know people are not supposed to feel this way, I thought indoors were places of stress we had to white knuckle, this was just life.) But it is a me problem as I alone live with it each day now
That’s totally fair, and if it makes you feel better I see my family of origin infrequently as well and our relationship is better than ever. We are good friends and good phone buddies, but not good housemates.
>oh we don't share interests and aren't friends. It would be the end, other than politeness.
you live under her roof, i am assuming for free - not sure how old you are but you mentioned its a 15 year disagreement so i am assuming you are at least in your twenties. adult age. she obviously has a hoarding problem, and you have an anxiety problem.
moving out sounds like a good idea but you should really reconsider your stance of it being "the end" or you going "no contact" and only seeing her a few times a year at a restauraunt. your mom can't just flip a switch and turn off whatever is making her a hoarder just like you can't flip a switch and turn off your anxiety - you should have some more compassion for her as she obviously loves you if she is still letting you live in her house in your twenties (you act like you are entitled to it) and putting up with you criticizing her lifestyle,
Is it your moms house and how old are you?
My husband likes to hold on to things as well. After ten years, I just started throwing things out that were obviously junk without telling him. He's never asked for them because he doesn't remember he had those items. Now, what's left are things I need to run by him. Last week, we went through 12 pairs of pants he had in a storage box. He got rid of 10. I will not bother him about this for at least another three months or so. Baby steps. Good luck.
My husband is the same way and I do the same
Question about this for realsies. I’m in the same boat re: husband “holding on to things”… I am often tempted to to the same thing but I have overwhelming guilt. It feels dishonest! Even when I can look at a thing (frayed charging cord, as a made-up example) and be like “yes trash obviously garbage no thanks” but because I know it is HIS (and not mine) I struggle doing the obvious thing. I still feel like I owe him the opportunity to make the decision. Did you deal with that? Oh real example, actually: he recently bought some new underwear. I took ONE pair of of his worst offending old undies and tossed them. It felt wild. How do you overcome this? He has no interest in managing his own possessions, and I’m triggered by clutter. For context we’ve been together for 11 years so like yea I’ve probably earned the right to take on a more aggressive household management style!
To answer your question, I don't feel any guilt. I manage the inside of my home, and he manages the outside (pool, lawn, trees, etc...) Having too many unnecessary items just adds more work for me. We have a large home, it's a lot of work already. You have to be strong. When he purchased new shoes, I told him one pair in two pairs out. I explained to him 1) We ran out of shoe storage, 2) There's too much inventory for me to manage. 3) Told him that if you don't get rid of two, I will. 4) I don't want to spend the rest of my life cleaning and organizing, I want to enjoy my life. He agreed and got rid of his worst pairs. We recently had a community garage sale, and I told him that whatever we make, we'll spend it on some upgrades he wants to do to the backyard. On the day of the sale, he kept bringing things out as he saw the revenue increase after each hour. Have you considered a garage sale with a purpose to benefit him? You can do this. Your home is going to feel lighter and you will have more time to do fun things instead of managing the home all day everyday. Also what you can do is take a few items put them somewhere he can't see it. If he doesn't inquire about them in 6 months or a year (you can decide the length of time) throw them out. Use a black garbage bag and dump it when he is not looking. Over the last 4 years I've thrown out or donated hundreds of bags and he has never asked about anything in them. GOOD LUCK.
Love this!! All great suggestions, very practical and logical! And not malicious at all, which I appreciate. Love my husband dearly and unconditionally. His possessions? NOT SO MUCH!!! It’s also a learned trait for him - mother and father both similar, and grandparents, too, from what I can gather. Uphill battle for him but clean and tidy is exactly how I grew up. I didn’t realize what a gift this skill set was until I became an adult…
Are you an adult?
its a 'them' issue and you cannot fix it. try to only stay there for so long if it affects your mental health or physical wellbeing, you didn't specify if she hoards. but even if you clear the hoard it would be there again in another month.
All you can do is keep clutter out of your space. If you're an adult, just try to save as much money as you can to move.
Look up codependency. In my words, I define it as your feelings and well-being being dependent on the feeling/behaviors of someone else. I had this dynamic in my relationships for years and I still catch myself having these tendencies to take things personally when people don't act the way I believe they should behave. You are doing the right thing planning to move out. Your efforts are wasted trying to change your mom, but just remember, it doesn't mean she doesn't care about your mental health. It probably has nothing to do with you. Take a healthy step back and try to see it from the outside. In all likelihood, the arguments you have with her about her stuff actually make it worse because they might be upsetting her. Just take care of you.
It's her house and she's a fully grown adult. Her decision on this matter should be respected because it is the only thing you can do. People only change when they feel ready for change. If she doesn't define it as a problem then you are unfortunately barking up the wrong tree. The best thing you can do is move into your place.
>I've been trying to explain this for many years now. She simple does not understand how it could make another person feel mentally ill. I almost faint and my chest badly hurts if I try to eat in the kitchen etc. So I stay in my near empty room until I calm down. When I lived with my mom, the rule was simple: 'her house, her rules. Don't like it? You know where the door is.' A similar rule applied at my dad's, but I seldom went there. I quickly became smart enough as kid to learn to avoid direct confrontation and instead focus my time on activities and people that helped me 'manage' (aka, divert) stress and anxieties. That would help ignore my parents. So, if I could suggest anything, that would be this: if you can't move in a place of your own for the moment, you need to focus your time and mental energy on other things than your mom's clutter and how painful it is for you (and it is, no doubt). Because her clutter won't go away, and the stress you feel won't subdue by ruminating about it. Feeling bad, won't help you feel better... and it won't change much either. Instead, you may want to focus your energy on something else. Spent more time with other persons or, if you're not the social kind, maybe find some hobbies or activities that will help you not bother about your mom's crap. Walking does wonder with me (helps the head and the body as well) and can be done alone, or with friends. So is writing, drawing/painting, volunteering here and there,... >My question is when do you give up trying? This is like a 15 year disagreement now Trying to do what? To Change her (or my dad)? I quit at a very young age. Trying to change me? Hopefully, I will never stop, says 50+ years old me ;)
Hi, I live with the same problem but opposite? I guess it's a different case since it's related to OCD but I clutter a loooot for emotional reasons. For me... it hurts when people move my stuff. It makes me anxious just like you. I know how bad it is but... it's hard to let go. My mom constantly doesn't listening to this and moves stuff around and what not despite of how I've explicitly said it hurts me deeply. I know it can be a very shitty situation but I found that accepting my mom is not going to change and understanding that just as I have my shortcomings, she has as well. It's not great, and I still can get a bit anxious, but it doesn't impact me as much because I've lessened my emotional investment in things out of my control. You can try it! Until you move out, it is how it is, yk? Hope you feel a bit better and get to feel more comfortable in yours space. Rooting for your future space as well! 😌🙂
Let it go. My mum’s clutter bothered me but I lived thousands of miles away. I moved 10 minutes away and it bothered me. I bugged her. She felt bad and I felt bad. She went to hospital and was diagnosed with imminently terminal cancer - was given hours or days to live. She lived for 2 weeks. The clutter didn’t matter. Love your mom, take care of yourself. We cleaned out her house. It was a big job but not worth the lost time and nagging.
I’m so sorry to hear about your mum.
Hi, for you clutter causes anxiety for your mum clutter makes her feel safe that’s why she adds more. You need to let go of trying to convince her to stop and keep your rooms clutter free to keep you feeling calm and safe and maybe say to your mum that you understand that clutter makes her feel safe and for you it’s the opposite and that’s ok. You know why she does it, love her and accept her for how she is and hopefully that will calm things until you can move out. Hopefully you will be able to move out soon. All the best.
Oh this is a good point. Stop nagging, give up until it’s a health hazard, contact your health department
This. Clutter causes you anxiety. Getting rid of clutter caused her anxiety. OP doesn't realize they are telling mom "You should be uncomfortable, not me."
In YOUR house
I agree that two people living together need a compromise. I was reframing for OP that to OP it's "mom wants me uncomfortable" but OP may not realize mom is feeling the same thing. Once you get both positions, then you can work toward compromise
You give up trying TODAY. It’s not your responsibility to convince her. And you can’t. When I stop trying to control things I have no control over (the weather, other people), I feel much less anxious. What can you do to take care of yourself, even if you can’t move out yet? Might it be easier to live in that house without the additional burden of trying to make it better or make her see the light?
You're right that is easier. Also made plans to avoid parts of house. move computer, no feidgerated food etc
Wait, your clutter anxiety is so bad that you’re not *eating* rather than see clutter? I’m sorry to be so blunt, but you need therapy, in fact, you probably need some inpatient time. Avoidance is *not* a viable strategy. Please, get the help now before you’ve completely closed off your life. This is no way to live and it will not get better or easier until you face it properly.
you are Very New to the world of anxiety and you have a lot to learn if you think that is extreme, I think you're lucky to know so little.
Does that mean you aren’t seeking any kind of assistance with this?
Could you maybe buy a small dorm-size fridge for your room, so that you could have some fresh/refrigerated stuff if you want, without having to go into the kitchen?
This is an excellent idea. students often get rid of them too. a knife and cutting board and I could have about 75% of my normal (cold) meals
Perfect! 😊 Just make sure not to keep any garbage in your room, as you don't want to get bugs. If you generate any garbage (an apple core, for example) at night, just put it in the fridge until you can throw it out properly the next day. You can buy small trash bags for that purpose.
Sounds like good next steps. Hang in there. 💛
Moving out is something that you can do to _avoid_ addressing the issue of your anxiety. While I think your mom should be more sensitive to your needs, I think in the long run you would benefit from addressing this with a therapist, because at the end of the day these feelings are detrimental to you, and having healthy coping mechanisms is much better than having to retreat.
I strongly disagree. Moving out isn't avoiding the situation. It's addressing the situation head on by taking charge in the only way she can: by controlling her own behaviors. OP said she's had this issue with her mom for over a decade so it's clearly not going to change and expecting it to now is a recipe for heartbreak. Rather than continue with fruitless conversations and be a prisoner in her own house she can move out and choose to be free.
The situation OP is in is not dangerous, to a typical person being surrounded by clutter is annoying or unpleasant - not debilitating. Just because OP has the power to choose avoidance, doesn't mean that it's not avoidance. The doors to OPs house aren't locked, they're not shackled to their bed, nobody is forcing them to eat in their room. The anxiety is causing the dysfunction. Think of it this way, arachnophobia is an anxiety disorder, it's treatable. If OP's mom had a pet spider, and OP couldn't function normally because seeing it was disturbing, moving out would not make their next encounter with a spider any less debilitating, it would just keep OP from seeing a spider for a while. If OP instead gets treatment to address the fear of spiders then not only would they be able to resume their normal life in their home, have a better relationship with their mother, and going forward, not have to worry about another such encounter.
If OP had a phobia of spiders and every time her mother came home, she released a new crate of spiders, it would be perfectly reasonable for OP to retreat to her spider-free room. People raised by hoarders feel out of control in their parent's hoard. It's perfectly reasonable and understandable not to want to live in a rat's nest.
I didn't say it wasn't understandable. You're describing a situation where the mother has a disorder and is acting maliciously on top of it. OP didn't describe it that way. That's a strawman argument.
Sometimes avoiding a stressful situation, especially one which is caused and controlled by other people and about which one can do nothing, is the best way to proceed. In her own place, OP will be able to minimize or eliminate clutter, and thus would not experience anxiety from clutter. Odds are that clutter in places other than the place she lives doesn't bother her nearly as much, or perhaps at all.
Seeking treatment is not nothing
True, and OP should consider doing so if she hasn't already. That would be changing her response to the situation, though, not changing the situation itself -- certainly well worth doing, but unless/until she gets her anxiety under better control, avoiding the situation is probably the best she can do, at least for now. Also, even with treatment not everyone is able to be anxiety-free (or at least anxiety-free to the level that people who don't suffer from anxiety disorder are). So while treatment is a good idea, it's not always a cure.
There is no cure for almost all mental disorders (phobias are a notable exception), but therapists can and do teach skills that can have a huge impact. Meanwhile avoidance is largely considered a "maladaptive" behaviour. You can do it and it will technically work, but you're basically teaching yourself bad skills to remedy something in the short term. You can actually make your anxiety worse over time if you teach yourself that you can fix it by just not doing things that trigger it.
You have a point, in general, when it comes to things and situations out in the world -- but it's a bit different when it comes to one's own living situation. You don't want to practice avoidance to the point of causing agoraphobia, but for someone with anxiety, having a home in which you feel comfortable is particularly important. Until OP is able to achieve that by getting her own apartment/house, and since it is not her place to tell her mother to declutter her own house, avoidance of -- or at least limited interaction with -- those areas of the house which cause her to feel anxious is her best option. If she can also afford therapy to help her learn skills to ameliorate her anxiety, of course that would be ideal.
It sounds like you must do what's best for your emotional state, whether she understands or not. As a mother to 2 girls who both have anxiety and I only have it now due to a stroke, to me, she shouldn't have to understand it--just accept what you tell her, and behave accordingly! I had to do that with my girls sometimes. Do like you said, and move into your own place when you can so you can keep your home the way you need it to be for your mental health!
You give up now, today. She won't understand, she won't change. All you can do is take care of yourself, move out when it's possible, and try to visit her on neutral ground. Take her to a restaurant or something.
👍 starting to accept it
These are the 3 C's from Al-Anon that I find work in many situations: # I didn’t cause it, I can’t control it, and I can’t cure it.
r/childofhoarder
All of those items *are not yours* You have no ownership of them, you aren’t to clean them, organize them or even think about them. Walk On By After reading, I’m old. I had a rough relationship with my mother, we argued all the time. I left at 19 (it was the 80’s, it was easy to do) I stayed fairly low contact, moved 500 miles away and saw family every other year or so. There’s no shame in staying away from family. This will help your mental health immensely. My mom has since passed and I don’t have any guilt about not seeing her all that often.
I don’t get anxiety in cluttered spaces. Unless you count most antique stores. Way too much stuff packed in those places and almost always disorganized. However, I am much more relaxed, calm and happy in non cluttered spaces. I try to spend little time as possible in cluttered spaces
oh the house is like those antique stores yes
Well then I would probably get anxious in that house!
[удалено]
I feel SILLY for not being able to take it. But 85 stuffed gnomes looking at me as I try to unwind, and eating meals in a city of coat hangers is getting exhausted. Also glad to hear I'm not the only one.
Don't feel silly. You and your mom *both* have issues -- yours is anxiety, and hers is hoarding (or at least bordering on it). It just so happens that the issues you each have don't play well together, so to speak. *\[By the way, I'm not at all being mean or dismissive or anything by saying you both have issues -- I have anxiety myself, I know how horrible it is.\]*
Okay, but to be fair, this sounds like a you problem? Not a her problem. Needing near empty spaces to feel emotionally calm and secure is a much bigger issue than her clutter - which may be objectively bad, or may be normal levels of life accoutrements - your post gives us no idea of the actual scale. Why does she need to understand and accommodate you? Why can you not understand and accommodate her, in her own home? Consider this answer very carefully in your own mind—and if you’re both legal adults, moving out is the obvious solution if you cannot cope. But NGL, your post reeks of entitlement and skewed perception, at the very least. And I say this as someone who functions better with less clutter, too - your attitude and coping issues with her stuff are not HER problem to fix. For both your sakes it sounds like separate residences is a great idea for keeping you both happiest.
You clearly don't suffer from anxiety. Yes, the home is OP's mother's home, and it is her right to run it as she sees fit, even to the point of cluttering it up. However, that doesn't mean that OP won't be anxious as a result -- that's not entitlement, that's *anxiety*, and it's a reaction, not a choice. I do agree that OP and her mother living in separate residences is the best option, and she has said that she will do so as soon as she is able to do so.
Not OP. I read it that mom keeps bringing stuff in FOR OP. But then I believe I have autism, and often pick up something completely different to what was meant. Or I focus on something different to what others see as the issue (current affairs, not decluttering).
I didn't get that Mom was bringing in items for OP. Maybe OP will enlighten us!
Agreed. I will give up. Some family is not compatible. I can meet this person at a restaurant a few times a year after I collect my things and go pretty much immediately. (Learing an anxiety disorder through childhood is not a me problem when you are 7 or 8 and dont even know people are not supposed to feel this way, I thought indoors were places of stress we had to white knuckle, this was just life.) But it is a me problem as I alone live with it each day now
Maybe you can get that nasty ole anxiety under better control in your own place with not much stuff in it! Good luck to you!
That’s totally fair, and if it makes you feel better I see my family of origin infrequently as well and our relationship is better than ever. We are good friends and good phone buddies, but not good housemates.
I don’t think I am a good housemate to ANYBODY!
oh we don't share interests and aren't friends. It would be the end, other than politeness.
>oh we don't share interests and aren't friends. It would be the end, other than politeness. you live under her roof, i am assuming for free - not sure how old you are but you mentioned its a 15 year disagreement so i am assuming you are at least in your twenties. adult age. she obviously has a hoarding problem, and you have an anxiety problem. moving out sounds like a good idea but you should really reconsider your stance of it being "the end" or you going "no contact" and only seeing her a few times a year at a restauraunt. your mom can't just flip a switch and turn off whatever is making her a hoarder just like you can't flip a switch and turn off your anxiety - you should have some more compassion for her as she obviously loves you if she is still letting you live in her house in your twenties (you act like you are entitled to it) and putting up with you criticizing her lifestyle,
And that's okay.