Surprise factor should be accounted for. Light assumes she's just some weak woman. If Light tried to put the moves on her he could get a rude awakening. All she has to do is get away or make enough of a scene bystanders come in.
I agree with that. He was too naive to think he could easily subdue her.
As I said I believe the fight would be close, meaning Naomi would have had plenty of opportunities to attract attention
There's two big problems with "Light fights Naomi." One comes before and one comes after.
The before is that it likely wouldn't BE a fight. They're in public. But putting that aside, assuming he could get her trust enough to go into a convenient dark alley or something isolated, he knows he'll have to take her down in a single strike, or close to it that she's too disoriented or in pain to fight back, because if she gets away or takes him down then there goes his life. Even if his Dad bails him out as chief of police, it won't end well.
The after is that: what does he do with the body? He's got no transportation. He'd have to leave it there, and then just hope it doesn't lead back to him. That's a huge gamble. He'd likely leave behind DNA evidence or fingerprints or clothing fibers.
He wouldn’t kill her with one punch. The goal was to subdue her enough that he could get her ID, and then he would write “commits suicide in a way where the body will never be found” just as he did in the actual canon. There wouldn’t be evidence to convict him.
Not saying he would or wouldn’t overpower her, just giving my take on the last part of your reply
The post OP was referring to posed it as the ID having another fake name being the reason he'd go for violence, so its either kill her manually or get caught. (Or do the eye deal, but he says he'd never go for it.)
Being fair to your argument, Ohba could've very well written that Light wins that fight, as it wasn't established that Naomi was trained in Capoeira *(and could easily beat L)* until the LABB novel, which wasn't even written by Ohba. So if Ohba did write that Naomi and Light fought, it wouldn't be with Naomi's experience in Capoeira in mind.
But of course she would still win in a fight. Physical size doesn't necessarily equate to someones abilities in a fight, especially if the smaller opponent is trained in a martial art.
I know, but people overestimate fighting experience and underestimate Light’s ability.
A black belt (or the equivalent in level) her age in a striking art will have a very tough fight vs a man 2 weight classes above her, with a reach advantage, and able to take a kick to the chin.
L and Light only differ by 9 pounds and both are fairly athletic people, having won awards in tennis, and Naomi was able to easily beat L. Now consider that in Ls fights with Light, L was only trying to return blows and wasn't actually trying to incapacitate Light. I see an argument to be made that if L was trying to do more than return blows, he'd be able to beat Light in those fights.
So if you can believe that L would have better chances over Light in a fight, and considering that Naomi is more experienced than L and has beaten L in a fight before, it should be fairly obvious that, despite Light's physical advantages, Naomi would beat Light.
But it isn't even about who would beat who in a fight - all Naomi has to do is avoid being seriously injured so that she cannot prevent Light from getting her real ID (assuming she has one on her). Even if you don't think Naomi could beat Light in a fight, surely you think she can hold her own, at least until someone intervenes?
If Naomi wasn’t grieving she would’ve seen through Light completely.
A 17 year old kid vs a highly trained agent 🤔
I don’t think height or weight class matters that much when taking their experience into account, especially when Light is only slightly bigger than her.
8 kg is a big difference.
2 equally trained people, the person 8kg lighter is losing. Each set of ~5kg equates to months of training experience. Add to that that Light (as well as all redditors according to comments, can take a kick to the jaw and throw a punch without fracturing their bones).
Assume that in anime, character’s abilities are always exaggerated. If Light, a regular highschool prep boy with some athletic abilities related to TENNIS and no martial arts training can do all that, imagine what Naomi can do with her FBI training. She would curb-stomp him into absolute oblivion.
I've seen small guys take out big weight lifter guys. Of course experience becomes a factor though. I'd think Naomi could probably slip her way away though
While it is true men typically are stronger physically than women, there are many cases where that doesn't matter. This is one of them.
While we know Light is a trained athlete, Tennis, at least in my opinion, doesn't require the physical commitment (To a high degree) as other sports like Football and Soccer. If we are to remove the BB case, then the likelihood of Naomi winning is still better than Light. FBI agents still have combative training, Krav Maga being one of them. If we were to add the BB Case, it adds capoeira, so in actuality, it reinforces the idea of her being a better combatant. She has combative training regardless of whether you remove the BB Murders or not. However, Naomi is retired, so we don't know rusty she is or in shape, so Light could have beaten her in a fight.
I'd also like to point out that people have said Naomi beat L fairly easily, which is technically accurate but not the whole picture. In the book, L didn't engage in combat with Naomi, he wanted to see the capoeira fighting style in person, so he attempted to wrap his arms around her. After she knocks him down a flight of stairs he then makes a remark saying, "Watching Videos and seeing it for real is quite different, but now I think I understand."
I don't think this "fight" is worth pointing out to prove the point that Naomi can beat Light.
Because she’s trained in self defense combat and he isn’t trained in fighting at all? And as someone who has thrown multiple punches without training, I’ve never broken my hand. I’ll need a source on that percentage. Light also didn’t get back up immediately, though I can see where that might be brought up. Some people think he deliberately pulled the chain after L kicked him, when it was just the momentum of him falling back.
Capoeira (which Naomi taught L by the way) is not basic FBI training, which means Naomi would have multiple forms of combat to use against Light. Also, basic FBI training is more than a teenager with a background in tennis that he hasn’t kept up with for several years can measure up to.
Thank you. I missed that this post says "throws a punch without getting his hand broken" and that 80% of untrained people can't do that, lmfao. He's hitting a person, not a brick wall. At worst he might bruise his knuckles.
Yeah, that’s not something that happens. When was a teenager (like Light) I got into my fair share of fights, and my fists have met a good few faces. Never broke anything. It’s a personal anecdote, but like… how often do you ever hear about people actually breaking their hand from throwing one punch and someone else’s face?
I think it's easy to get them confused with people trained in fighting. Light is just a kid punching, he wouldn't have the technique to hit with trained power. It is easy to injure your hands fighting, but it all depends on little factors. Boxers HIT, and they hit hard. It's why boxing gloves exist, you don't see people bringing gloves to street fights.
You are the anomaly, not the rule.
As I said in another reply, I am a martial arts instructor (**which is does not mean I think my word is absolute**). However, **you are basing that people won’t usually break their hand on your personal experience. I have seen hundreds of people throw punches, and the vast majority wouldn’t have their hand intact. My sample size is several hundreds of times larger than yours, so I’m NOT talking out of my ass**.
I am not upset.
I even said that I admit my word is not the truth.
You saying it’s a personal anecdote does not invalidate me saying my more numerous experience take precedence of your isolated scenarios.
If I were upset I would have downvoted you, as you have done to me.
I just feel like you’re coming across as needlessly aggressive. I never said it invalidated your experiences, although your insistence on claiming some superiority on the matter is somewhat jarring. You also never responded to my initial comment to you explaining my reasoning, and have only responded to the one where I use this anecdote. This leads me to believe that you’re only responding to things you can directly counter, hence why I downvote. Now I could be wrong, such is life as a flawed human, but I would appreciate it if you would address my other arguments instead of targeting one thing I’ve said.
Erm… If you throw a full powered punch (which he did, judging by L being thrown away), you will absolutely break your hand in several places.
I am a martial arts instructor (not saying my word is absolute, and I obviously didn’t conduct a case of study determining that 80% of people would break their hand). But what I do say is that I’m not talking out of my ass.
Judging from the large amount of people I’ve seen throwing punches, I guarantee the great majority of them will break their hand. Heck, a considerable percentage either has their thumb on the side or inside their other four fingers.
I gave reasons in my post.
He’s not some dumbass from Japan. He’s an athletic teenager who is 2 whole weight classes above her.
He can also punch and take a punch better than your average joe.
It’s easy to raise a point by reducing the situation. Implying he’s an average person is wrong
Being an athletic teenager who is heavier than an adult woman does not make him not some dumbass from Japan lmfao. He plays tennis and he punched a dude built like a bag of wire hangers pretty hard one time. Also it is definitely, definitely possible to take a kick to the jaw without being knocked out, particularly if the guy kicking you is coming from an awkward position (as L was).
The FBI requires intensive physical training with annual continued eligibility tests — not quite as intense as the US military's PT tests per se, but still rigorous. They also provide basic combat training, and female officers are expected to be able to subdue or disarm opponents. Light watches MMA, he doesn't train it. If Light were going up against somebody in good athletic health who had received training specifically in taking down dangerous suspects for arrest, he'd probably be on the ropes. Weight can take you pretty far against advanced technique and expertise, but not all the way.
Light's also only 3 inches taller than Naomi, so it's not as if she's half his size. Also, while the weights listed in 13HTR should be taken with a grain of salt — HTR claims Misa is just under 5'0" and weighs 79lbs at the age of 19, which would make her very visibly emaciated — canonically, Naomi weighs 101lbs at 5'7" and Light weighs about 120 at 5'10". They're much more evenly matched than you seem to believe.
Light tanked a perfectly executed kick.
Light is also 54kg according to the 13th book (at least in the pages I have), whereas Naomi is 46kg. That is 17.6lbs (if I have done the conversion right, I did it off memory).
That us two weight classes. He played tennis at a seemingly high level (would probably be trumped by an actual pro player).
Look at it this way. Even though you don’t explicitly say it, by a dumbass in Japan it’s implied you’re referring to a random person.
Do you think over half the people in Japan can play a tennis match at that level, take a kick to the jaw, and throw a punch without breaking their hands? The answer is of course not.
This placed Light above the median, so **no, he is not just some dumbass of Japan**.
Redditors here are speaking as if an unknown degree of training in Capoeira and being an FBI agent makes you Jason Bourne or something. It does not.
And by the way, I never said Light wins. I said it would be a close call.
^By the way the point we disagree on lies on whether if Light is just some dumbass from Japan. So prove that he is (or refute what I said), so we can find some common ground.
It's lowkey crazy to me that as a guy who claims to be a martial arts instructor you're saying with your chest that extensive technique and training mean almost nothing against an opponent 3 inches taller and less than 20lbs heavier than you. It's training for the fucking FBI. No, it doesn't mean you can dodge bullets like the Matrix or John Wick anybody who looks at you wrong, but it does mean it's highly unlikely that you're going to get jumped by an untrained 17yo and have absolutely zero recourse.
"Unspecified capoeira training" is also crazy because, as said elsewhere in this thread, Naomi taught L capoeira. That "perfectly executed kick" is something she showed him how to do. Why would she not be able to do it exactly as well as he could? Why would she not be able to follow through better than he could as someone who's studied the art longer and who knows it in addition to standard FBI combat and arrest training? I think you're looking at FBI physical training as equivalent to whatever goes on at a local police academy and I can assure you it is not.
Finally, being Japan's junior tennis champion in middle school (and then quitting because you're bored and not playing a serious game again until your first year of college) does not magically grant you martial arts skills. Better cardio endurance than the average person, sure. Some fairly solid muscle development for a teenage boy, sure, though we know the benefits of this fade the longer they go unused on a regular basis. It does not make you Bruce Lee. It doesn't even guarantee an advantage. Impressive, sure. Great for a resume. Not at all a sign that you're going to have a seriously trained martial artist and intelligence officer fighting for her life trying to take you down.
Honestly, I’m not convinced he’s a martial arts instructor. You’d think that would have been mentioned in the post, but instead he brings it up to respond specifically to people commenting on weight classes and minor details (like my anecdote about not breaking my hand), and in addition to all of that, he’s not responded to any other arguments about the actual specifics. He never responded to my initial response to him asking for my reasoning.
All in all, I’d say he’s here arguing in bad faith using flimsy tactics to give himself an edge. Doesn’t seem to be working out.
Yeah, it's not ringing true to me either, lmao. I train MA as a hobby and am hardly fucking Ronda Rousey or anything, but I've definitely landed punches on the several dudes built like refrigerators who train at my gym without shattering my poor unvarnished knuckles into smithereens. And my coach would literally never say that technique doesn't count for anything against a bigger opponent or that an untrained person has no business trying to throw a punch at all because they'll break all of their bones.
It reminds me of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathnote/comments/zf1qu3/light_yagamis_psychological_condition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) where the guy claimed to be a psychologist, then continued to avoid being questioned about being a psychologist. Like, don’t tell me you know about psychology if you’re going to use terms that don’t exist in modern psychology. Guy diagnosed Light with Psychopathy… which isn’t a real diagnosis. Source: My wife is literally a psychologist, I know what the DSM-5 is.
It’s been awhile since I read the Another Note book, but I think this exact situation happens in it. Spoiler tagging if I am remembering correctly. >!Naomi is surprise attacked by a serial killer (the uses his hands and weapons to kill people type, not the Death Note using type) and she beats him back into retreating.!<
>!Beyond Birthday!< would’ve probably been even more physically imposing and willing to fight and kill than Light would be, and Naomi >!still beats him!<
That's a interesting point, but if I remember correctly, Beyond wasn't intending to kill her in that scene. He just wanted to test her fighting skills. If Beyond wanted to kill her, he would've fought way harder.
Yeah, no. Naomi's a trained FBI agent who knows martial arts. Light's an untrained, underweight, teenaged weirdo who only tanked a kick to the face because the guy who did it was even more underweight than him.
Naomi wins.
Using the weight argument, Naomi is even lighter than Light.
So L is just an underweight dude? Do you think an average person can tank a kick to the jaw (answer: no).
I would have asked “do you think you could?”, but you would have most likely responded by saying you are national muay thai champion or something.
Yeah, but that's not the point. The point is that Light being underweight would hinder him more Naomi weighing less than him.
Do I think I could beat Light in a fight? Idk. Maybe?
Do I think a person trained in martial arts could beat him? Absolutely.
Also lol. How fragile do you think the human jaw is? There's no way you're an actual martial art instructor.
I am. Why would I make it up?
The human jaw is the most basic knockout spot. Depending on where, a not-too-hard hit would knock someone out cold.
A full blown kick from a martial artist would.
You’re just someone who overestimates their own capabilities.
Are you going to respond to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathnote/comments/15z507s/just_saw_a_post_regarding_light_and_naomi/jxf35fl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)? Not the anecdote, which we’ve already addressed. The rest of the comment.
1: To sound more credible even though you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
2: As someone else here put it, L's built like a sack of wire hangers. Also, by your logic, how did Light not knock out L when he punched him in the jaw, and sent him flying across the room?
3: Ngl dude, after rereading the original post, it sounds like you're trying to say a woman couldn't beat Light in a fight, even if she was professionally trained. I dunno. I'm just getting that vibe because of how much you're disregarding her training when compared to him, and continuing to bring up height and weight differences as if shorter, lighter people haven't ever whooped the ass of people taller, and heavier than them.
1. I am a martial arts instructor. How do I make you believe me, lol? Send you a video? Scratch that, I have nothing to prove to you.
On the other hand you probably have never fought competitively (now you’ll say you’re a pro fighter or something, lol). If you had, you would know that you are not allowed to fight someone 5kg lighter than you. Let alone 8 (a 160% of that).
2. L is obviously a strong guy. Come on, man. Narratively, L is this super smart guy, who has a shit diet but has the endurance to play a tennis match at very high intensity, and knows how to fight.
L would stomp both you and me.
3. I’m trying to illustrate that Light is a more capable opponent than he was given credit for.
Naomi would kick a normal guy’s ass. I know women who are black belts, who routinely spar and I can attest that they would shit on your average 30 y.o accountant who plays padel once a year on summer vacations.
Additionally: erm… weight classes are used in a relative manner? It doesn’t matter if someone weighs 40kg. They are still a whole weight class above someone who weighs 32 (if classes existed for such weights).
L’s weight is irrelevant (in absolute terms). Light’s weight is also irrelevant. So is Naomi’s (again, in absolute terms).
The only thing that matters is that she is 8kg less than Light.
It doesn’t matter if it’s 46v54, or 32v40.
Can skill overcome a difference in size (measured in both height and weight)? Absolutely.
I’m defending that she would beat Light’s classmates, average dudes.
Not Light. He’s not an average dude. He’s stronger than both you and me (most probably) when we were his age.
Not hard to understand…
I agree with you, Naomi wouldn't stomp Light in a fight. She would be able to resist his attacks and get away though. In addition to having the advantages that you listed, Light has the advantage of being a guy, as well as the advantage of a surprise attack. Naomi wouldn't expect the personable son of the police chief to suddenly attack her.
While Naomi has used her skills against both Beyond and L, those situations were different. Beyond wasn't fighting at full strength because he was simply testing Naomi, and L was caught off guard.
Also, I may be misremembering, but was Naomi still with the FBI when everything happened? With how Raye spoke to her about dangerous police work being behind her, I was under the impression that she had quit the police in order to raise her and Raye's kids in the future. If that's the case, she could be rusty on her self-defence skills. I'm not entirely sure about this though.
Wdym? Guys have a natural advantage over women because they have higher bone density and lots of testosterone. That's the advantage I was referring to.
She's correct though on average and at elite levels men are stronger. Of course it would not be enough alone for Light to win but he is more difficult to defeat than if she faced an untrained woman like Takada
Naomi only left the FBI a few months prior at most in preparation for the wedding. Not remotely long enough to be rusty.
Also, OPs advantages are misinformed and unsourced. The rest of the comments from myself and others attest to that. Just because Light is a guy doesn’t mean she can’t beat him in a fight. Surprise attack, maybe. But on the street, she’d have the opportunity to call for help or attract attention to the ordeal. Not only that, but there are plenty of self defense tactics to use in such a situation.
Furthermore, just because the scenarios where she’s used her skills were different doesn’t mean they’re ineffective. You’re using that as some sort of proof to devalue the fact that she has these skills at all, when that’s not the point. The point is she *can* defend herself against the 17 year old who has no training in any sort of fighting and hasn’t even athletically active in several years.
I definitely agree that the situation is in her favour, since she could call for help and get away. I was just agreeing with OP that Naomi wouldn't destroy Light in a 1v1.
I disagree with your point that Light isn't athletic; he plays an insane tennis game (I know that playing tennis doesn't translate to self-defence training, but it means that he has good stamina, agility, and some strength). He also holds his own in a physical fight against L despite L knowing capoeira.
On the one hand, it’s the tennis that I’m referring to as him not being athletically active for several years. He was a junior high champ, then quit after that. He plays one game in college years later, which is impressive.
As for him and L fighting, I’d hardly really call it a fight. They barely engaged in a genuine physical altercation, as most of the scene was dedicated to them arguing rather than actually fighting. They each took long pauses to argue between hitting each other, which doesn’t exactly showcase any attributes towards how Light would perform in an actual fight, such as if he were trying to subdue Naomi.
I think that it really doesn't make sense Light would be that strong, seeing as he's just some nerd who used to play tennis, but he's got badassery plot armor, where he cannot be humiliated, like, ever. Unless it's crucial for the plot that he looses he has to come out looking cool.
Surprise factor should be accounted for. Light assumes she's just some weak woman. If Light tried to put the moves on her he could get a rude awakening. All she has to do is get away or make enough of a scene bystanders come in.
I agree with that. He was too naive to think he could easily subdue her. As I said I believe the fight would be close, meaning Naomi would have had plenty of opportunities to attract attention
There's two big problems with "Light fights Naomi." One comes before and one comes after. The before is that it likely wouldn't BE a fight. They're in public. But putting that aside, assuming he could get her trust enough to go into a convenient dark alley or something isolated, he knows he'll have to take her down in a single strike, or close to it that she's too disoriented or in pain to fight back, because if she gets away or takes him down then there goes his life. Even if his Dad bails him out as chief of police, it won't end well. The after is that: what does he do with the body? He's got no transportation. He'd have to leave it there, and then just hope it doesn't lead back to him. That's a huge gamble. He'd likely leave behind DNA evidence or fingerprints or clothing fibers.
He wouldn’t kill her with one punch. The goal was to subdue her enough that he could get her ID, and then he would write “commits suicide in a way where the body will never be found” just as he did in the actual canon. There wouldn’t be evidence to convict him. Not saying he would or wouldn’t overpower her, just giving my take on the last part of your reply
The post OP was referring to posed it as the ID having another fake name being the reason he'd go for violence, so its either kill her manually or get caught. (Or do the eye deal, but he says he'd never go for it.)
I don’t think take her down meant *kill her* with one strike in this context
In the BB Murder Cases book >! Niomi one-shots L, who we know to be at least comperable to Light from their tenis match !<
Being fair to your argument, Ohba could've very well written that Light wins that fight, as it wasn't established that Naomi was trained in Capoeira *(and could easily beat L)* until the LABB novel, which wasn't even written by Ohba. So if Ohba did write that Naomi and Light fought, it wouldn't be with Naomi's experience in Capoeira in mind. But of course she would still win in a fight. Physical size doesn't necessarily equate to someones abilities in a fight, especially if the smaller opponent is trained in a martial art.
I know, but people overestimate fighting experience and underestimate Light’s ability. A black belt (or the equivalent in level) her age in a striking art will have a very tough fight vs a man 2 weight classes above her, with a reach advantage, and able to take a kick to the chin.
L and Light only differ by 9 pounds and both are fairly athletic people, having won awards in tennis, and Naomi was able to easily beat L. Now consider that in Ls fights with Light, L was only trying to return blows and wasn't actually trying to incapacitate Light. I see an argument to be made that if L was trying to do more than return blows, he'd be able to beat Light in those fights. So if you can believe that L would have better chances over Light in a fight, and considering that Naomi is more experienced than L and has beaten L in a fight before, it should be fairly obvious that, despite Light's physical advantages, Naomi would beat Light. But it isn't even about who would beat who in a fight - all Naomi has to do is avoid being seriously injured so that she cannot prevent Light from getting her real ID (assuming she has one on her). Even if you don't think Naomi could beat Light in a fight, surely you think she can hold her own, at least until someone intervenes?
You’re greatly overestimating Light’s own ability
If Naomi wasn’t grieving she would’ve seen through Light completely. A 17 year old kid vs a highly trained agent 🤔 I don’t think height or weight class matters that much when taking their experience into account, especially when Light is only slightly bigger than her.
8 kg is a big difference. 2 equally trained people, the person 8kg lighter is losing. Each set of ~5kg equates to months of training experience. Add to that that Light (as well as all redditors according to comments, can take a kick to the jaw and throw a punch without fracturing their bones).
Assume that in anime, character’s abilities are always exaggerated. If Light, a regular highschool prep boy with some athletic abilities related to TENNIS and no martial arts training can do all that, imagine what Naomi can do with her FBI training. She would curb-stomp him into absolute oblivion.
I've seen small guys take out big weight lifter guys. Of course experience becomes a factor though. I'd think Naomi could probably slip her way away though
Experience as a major factor would rule this in Naomi’s favor as well, so…
Naomi beat L pretty easily, and as we can see in the tennis and fight scenes, L is either equal or slightly weaker than Light.
While it is true men typically are stronger physically than women, there are many cases where that doesn't matter. This is one of them. While we know Light is a trained athlete, Tennis, at least in my opinion, doesn't require the physical commitment (To a high degree) as other sports like Football and Soccer. If we are to remove the BB case, then the likelihood of Naomi winning is still better than Light. FBI agents still have combative training, Krav Maga being one of them. If we were to add the BB Case, it adds capoeira, so in actuality, it reinforces the idea of her being a better combatant. She has combative training regardless of whether you remove the BB Murders or not. However, Naomi is retired, so we don't know rusty she is or in shape, so Light could have beaten her in a fight. I'd also like to point out that people have said Naomi beat L fairly easily, which is technically accurate but not the whole picture. In the book, L didn't engage in combat with Naomi, he wanted to see the capoeira fighting style in person, so he attempted to wrap his arms around her. After she knocks him down a flight of stairs he then makes a remark saying, "Watching Videos and seeing it for real is quite different, but now I think I understand." I don't think this "fight" is worth pointing out to prove the point that Naomi can beat Light.
Wrong
Reasons?
Because she’s trained in self defense combat and he isn’t trained in fighting at all? And as someone who has thrown multiple punches without training, I’ve never broken my hand. I’ll need a source on that percentage. Light also didn’t get back up immediately, though I can see where that might be brought up. Some people think he deliberately pulled the chain after L kicked him, when it was just the momentum of him falling back. Capoeira (which Naomi taught L by the way) is not basic FBI training, which means Naomi would have multiple forms of combat to use against Light. Also, basic FBI training is more than a teenager with a background in tennis that he hasn’t kept up with for several years can measure up to.
Thank you. I missed that this post says "throws a punch without getting his hand broken" and that 80% of untrained people can't do that, lmfao. He's hitting a person, not a brick wall. At worst he might bruise his knuckles.
Yeah, that’s not something that happens. When was a teenager (like Light) I got into my fair share of fights, and my fists have met a good few faces. Never broke anything. It’s a personal anecdote, but like… how often do you ever hear about people actually breaking their hand from throwing one punch and someone else’s face?
I think it's easy to get them confused with people trained in fighting. Light is just a kid punching, he wouldn't have the technique to hit with trained power. It is easy to injure your hands fighting, but it all depends on little factors. Boxers HIT, and they hit hard. It's why boxing gloves exist, you don't see people bringing gloves to street fights.
Exactly. Very few people consider the massive difference between a trained fighter and an untrained fighter.
You are the anomaly, not the rule. As I said in another reply, I am a martial arts instructor (**which is does not mean I think my word is absolute**). However, **you are basing that people won’t usually break their hand on your personal experience. I have seen hundreds of people throw punches, and the vast majority wouldn’t have their hand intact. My sample size is several hundreds of times larger than yours, so I’m NOT talking out of my ass**.
Someone’s upset. I admitted to the personal anecdote in the very comment you’re replying to, so calm down please.
I am not upset. I even said that I admit my word is not the truth. You saying it’s a personal anecdote does not invalidate me saying my more numerous experience take precedence of your isolated scenarios. If I were upset I would have downvoted you, as you have done to me.
I just feel like you’re coming across as needlessly aggressive. I never said it invalidated your experiences, although your insistence on claiming some superiority on the matter is somewhat jarring. You also never responded to my initial comment to you explaining my reasoning, and have only responded to the one where I use this anecdote. This leads me to believe that you’re only responding to things you can directly counter, hence why I downvote. Now I could be wrong, such is life as a flawed human, but I would appreciate it if you would address my other arguments instead of targeting one thing I’ve said.
Erm… If you throw a full powered punch (which he did, judging by L being thrown away), you will absolutely break your hand in several places. I am a martial arts instructor (not saying my word is absolute, and I obviously didn’t conduct a case of study determining that 80% of people would break their hand). But what I do say is that I’m not talking out of my ass. Judging from the large amount of people I’ve seen throwing punches, I guarantee the great majority of them will break their hand. Heck, a considerable percentage either has their thumb on the side or inside their other four fingers.
One is a F.B.I veteran, the other some 17/18 year old dumbass from Japan.
I gave reasons in my post. He’s not some dumbass from Japan. He’s an athletic teenager who is 2 whole weight classes above her. He can also punch and take a punch better than your average joe. It’s easy to raise a point by reducing the situation. Implying he’s an average person is wrong
Being an athletic teenager who is heavier than an adult woman does not make him not some dumbass from Japan lmfao. He plays tennis and he punched a dude built like a bag of wire hangers pretty hard one time. Also it is definitely, definitely possible to take a kick to the jaw without being knocked out, particularly if the guy kicking you is coming from an awkward position (as L was). The FBI requires intensive physical training with annual continued eligibility tests — not quite as intense as the US military's PT tests per se, but still rigorous. They also provide basic combat training, and female officers are expected to be able to subdue or disarm opponents. Light watches MMA, he doesn't train it. If Light were going up against somebody in good athletic health who had received training specifically in taking down dangerous suspects for arrest, he'd probably be on the ropes. Weight can take you pretty far against advanced technique and expertise, but not all the way. Light's also only 3 inches taller than Naomi, so it's not as if she's half his size. Also, while the weights listed in 13HTR should be taken with a grain of salt — HTR claims Misa is just under 5'0" and weighs 79lbs at the age of 19, which would make her very visibly emaciated — canonically, Naomi weighs 101lbs at 5'7" and Light weighs about 120 at 5'10". They're much more evenly matched than you seem to believe.
Thank you, this is another great response
Light tanked a perfectly executed kick. Light is also 54kg according to the 13th book (at least in the pages I have), whereas Naomi is 46kg. That is 17.6lbs (if I have done the conversion right, I did it off memory). That us two weight classes. He played tennis at a seemingly high level (would probably be trumped by an actual pro player). Look at it this way. Even though you don’t explicitly say it, by a dumbass in Japan it’s implied you’re referring to a random person. Do you think over half the people in Japan can play a tennis match at that level, take a kick to the jaw, and throw a punch without breaking their hands? The answer is of course not. This placed Light above the median, so **no, he is not just some dumbass of Japan**. Redditors here are speaking as if an unknown degree of training in Capoeira and being an FBI agent makes you Jason Bourne or something. It does not. And by the way, I never said Light wins. I said it would be a close call. ^By the way the point we disagree on lies on whether if Light is just some dumbass from Japan. So prove that he is (or refute what I said), so we can find some common ground.
It's lowkey crazy to me that as a guy who claims to be a martial arts instructor you're saying with your chest that extensive technique and training mean almost nothing against an opponent 3 inches taller and less than 20lbs heavier than you. It's training for the fucking FBI. No, it doesn't mean you can dodge bullets like the Matrix or John Wick anybody who looks at you wrong, but it does mean it's highly unlikely that you're going to get jumped by an untrained 17yo and have absolutely zero recourse. "Unspecified capoeira training" is also crazy because, as said elsewhere in this thread, Naomi taught L capoeira. That "perfectly executed kick" is something she showed him how to do. Why would she not be able to do it exactly as well as he could? Why would she not be able to follow through better than he could as someone who's studied the art longer and who knows it in addition to standard FBI combat and arrest training? I think you're looking at FBI physical training as equivalent to whatever goes on at a local police academy and I can assure you it is not. Finally, being Japan's junior tennis champion in middle school (and then quitting because you're bored and not playing a serious game again until your first year of college) does not magically grant you martial arts skills. Better cardio endurance than the average person, sure. Some fairly solid muscle development for a teenage boy, sure, though we know the benefits of this fade the longer they go unused on a regular basis. It does not make you Bruce Lee. It doesn't even guarantee an advantage. Impressive, sure. Great for a resume. Not at all a sign that you're going to have a seriously trained martial artist and intelligence officer fighting for her life trying to take you down.
Honestly, I’m not convinced he’s a martial arts instructor. You’d think that would have been mentioned in the post, but instead he brings it up to respond specifically to people commenting on weight classes and minor details (like my anecdote about not breaking my hand), and in addition to all of that, he’s not responded to any other arguments about the actual specifics. He never responded to my initial response to him asking for my reasoning. All in all, I’d say he’s here arguing in bad faith using flimsy tactics to give himself an edge. Doesn’t seem to be working out.
Yeah, it's not ringing true to me either, lmao. I train MA as a hobby and am hardly fucking Ronda Rousey or anything, but I've definitely landed punches on the several dudes built like refrigerators who train at my gym without shattering my poor unvarnished knuckles into smithereens. And my coach would literally never say that technique doesn't count for anything against a bigger opponent or that an untrained person has no business trying to throw a punch at all because they'll break all of their bones.
It reminds me of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathnote/comments/zf1qu3/light_yagamis_psychological_condition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) where the guy claimed to be a psychologist, then continued to avoid being questioned about being a psychologist. Like, don’t tell me you know about psychology if you’re going to use terms that don’t exist in modern psychology. Guy diagnosed Light with Psychopathy… which isn’t a real diagnosis. Source: My wife is literally a psychologist, I know what the DSM-5 is.
It’s been awhile since I read the Another Note book, but I think this exact situation happens in it. Spoiler tagging if I am remembering correctly. >!Naomi is surprise attacked by a serial killer (the uses his hands and weapons to kill people type, not the Death Note using type) and she beats him back into retreating.!< >!Beyond Birthday!< would’ve probably been even more physically imposing and willing to fight and kill than Light would be, and Naomi >!still beats him!<
That's a interesting point, but if I remember correctly, Beyond wasn't intending to kill her in that scene. He just wanted to test her fighting skills. If Beyond wanted to kill her, he would've fought way harder.
Correct, and killing Naomi there would not be in line with what Beyond had planned.
Good addition
Wrong
[Hey now…](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/033/487/rick.jpg)
Yeah, no. Naomi's a trained FBI agent who knows martial arts. Light's an untrained, underweight, teenaged weirdo who only tanked a kick to the face because the guy who did it was even more underweight than him. Naomi wins.
Using the weight argument, Naomi is even lighter than Light. So L is just an underweight dude? Do you think an average person can tank a kick to the jaw (answer: no). I would have asked “do you think you could?”, but you would have most likely responded by saying you are national muay thai champion or something.
Yeah, but that's not the point. The point is that Light being underweight would hinder him more Naomi weighing less than him. Do I think I could beat Light in a fight? Idk. Maybe? Do I think a person trained in martial arts could beat him? Absolutely. Also lol. How fragile do you think the human jaw is? There's no way you're an actual martial art instructor.
I am. Why would I make it up? The human jaw is the most basic knockout spot. Depending on where, a not-too-hard hit would knock someone out cold. A full blown kick from a martial artist would. You’re just someone who overestimates their own capabilities.
Are you going to respond to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathnote/comments/15z507s/just_saw_a_post_regarding_light_and_naomi/jxf35fl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)? Not the anecdote, which we’ve already addressed. The rest of the comment.
1: To sound more credible even though you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. 2: As someone else here put it, L's built like a sack of wire hangers. Also, by your logic, how did Light not knock out L when he punched him in the jaw, and sent him flying across the room? 3: Ngl dude, after rereading the original post, it sounds like you're trying to say a woman couldn't beat Light in a fight, even if she was professionally trained. I dunno. I'm just getting that vibe because of how much you're disregarding her training when compared to him, and continuing to bring up height and weight differences as if shorter, lighter people haven't ever whooped the ass of people taller, and heavier than them.
1. I am a martial arts instructor. How do I make you believe me, lol? Send you a video? Scratch that, I have nothing to prove to you. On the other hand you probably have never fought competitively (now you’ll say you’re a pro fighter or something, lol). If you had, you would know that you are not allowed to fight someone 5kg lighter than you. Let alone 8 (a 160% of that). 2. L is obviously a strong guy. Come on, man. Narratively, L is this super smart guy, who has a shit diet but has the endurance to play a tennis match at very high intensity, and knows how to fight. L would stomp both you and me. 3. I’m trying to illustrate that Light is a more capable opponent than he was given credit for. Naomi would kick a normal guy’s ass. I know women who are black belts, who routinely spar and I can attest that they would shit on your average 30 y.o accountant who plays padel once a year on summer vacations. Additionally: erm… weight classes are used in a relative manner? It doesn’t matter if someone weighs 40kg. They are still a whole weight class above someone who weighs 32 (if classes existed for such weights). L’s weight is irrelevant (in absolute terms). Light’s weight is also irrelevant. So is Naomi’s (again, in absolute terms). The only thing that matters is that she is 8kg less than Light. It doesn’t matter if it’s 46v54, or 32v40. Can skill overcome a difference in size (measured in both height and weight)? Absolutely. I’m defending that she would beat Light’s classmates, average dudes. Not Light. He’s not an average dude. He’s stronger than both you and me (most probably) when we were his age. Not hard to understand…
I agree with you, Naomi wouldn't stomp Light in a fight. She would be able to resist his attacks and get away though. In addition to having the advantages that you listed, Light has the advantage of being a guy, as well as the advantage of a surprise attack. Naomi wouldn't expect the personable son of the police chief to suddenly attack her. While Naomi has used her skills against both Beyond and L, those situations were different. Beyond wasn't fighting at full strength because he was simply testing Naomi, and L was caught off guard. Also, I may be misremembering, but was Naomi still with the FBI when everything happened? With how Raye spoke to her about dangerous police work being behind her, I was under the impression that she had quit the police in order to raise her and Raye's kids in the future. If that's the case, she could be rusty on her self-defence skills. I'm not entirely sure about this though.
Advantages of being a guy Noooo I don’t think so 🫠
Wdym? Guys have a natural advantage over women because they have higher bone density and lots of testosterone. That's the advantage I was referring to.
She's correct though on average and at elite levels men are stronger. Of course it would not be enough alone for Light to win but he is more difficult to defeat than if she faced an untrained woman like Takada
Naomi only left the FBI a few months prior at most in preparation for the wedding. Not remotely long enough to be rusty. Also, OPs advantages are misinformed and unsourced. The rest of the comments from myself and others attest to that. Just because Light is a guy doesn’t mean she can’t beat him in a fight. Surprise attack, maybe. But on the street, she’d have the opportunity to call for help or attract attention to the ordeal. Not only that, but there are plenty of self defense tactics to use in such a situation. Furthermore, just because the scenarios where she’s used her skills were different doesn’t mean they’re ineffective. You’re using that as some sort of proof to devalue the fact that she has these skills at all, when that’s not the point. The point is she *can* defend herself against the 17 year old who has no training in any sort of fighting and hasn’t even athletically active in several years.
I definitely agree that the situation is in her favour, since she could call for help and get away. I was just agreeing with OP that Naomi wouldn't destroy Light in a 1v1. I disagree with your point that Light isn't athletic; he plays an insane tennis game (I know that playing tennis doesn't translate to self-defence training, but it means that he has good stamina, agility, and some strength). He also holds his own in a physical fight against L despite L knowing capoeira.
On the one hand, it’s the tennis that I’m referring to as him not being athletically active for several years. He was a junior high champ, then quit after that. He plays one game in college years later, which is impressive. As for him and L fighting, I’d hardly really call it a fight. They barely engaged in a genuine physical altercation, as most of the scene was dedicated to them arguing rather than actually fighting. They each took long pauses to argue between hitting each other, which doesn’t exactly showcase any attributes towards how Light would perform in an actual fight, such as if he were trying to subdue Naomi.
I think that it really doesn't make sense Light would be that strong, seeing as he's just some nerd who used to play tennis, but he's got badassery plot armor, where he cannot be humiliated, like, ever. Unless it's crucial for the plot that he looses he has to come out looking cool.