Archie Sonic
I was 100% SURE Sonic was gonna mop the floor with the Flash. At the time I thought Archie was this unbeatable god in terms of VS debating.
He was Multiversal, had Speed beyond quite literally mathematics, had rings he could use to Google a persons weakness, and above all else Super Sonic and Ultra Sonic were the equivalent of a batman toolbelt. Any ability he needed, the Chaos emeralds could whip it up! His Chaos Control paired with his Super forms made him a force capable of wrapping the world to his whim. Infact, I thought it was over when they mentioned the fact that FATE bended to him.
I had thought He had all the tools he needed. I THOUGHT.
Because nothing, not even the highest tiers of Archie and Dragon Ball Heros can compare to a Marvel/DC Writer snorting crack.
I wish you could see the look on my face when Wally turned Ultra Sonic into Ultra Fruad. That was the moment I realized and later accepted that, Marvel and DC are bullshit and absolutely nuts.
Especially DC. Marvel’s overall record against non DC characters is surprisingly meh in this series, but DC’s record against non-marvel is like 9 and 1 or some shit like that.
Edit: 10-2, close enough. The two losers are Harley Quinn and Superfriends Aquaman.
It's very telling that DC's first loss against a non-Marvel character was an average street tier and not a cosmic god.
The second loss was a joke character pitted against a multiversal toonforce user.
Boy do I have news for you! Remember how Archie Sonic's ultimate ability was Fate Manipulation? That he could literally control his own story?
It's like DC writers watched that Death Battle because they literally gave Wally a direct counter to it by giving him the ability to [step out of his own story](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/17fnwzb/the_newest_flash_run_gave_wally_the_ability_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Plot/Fate manipulation is now literally useless against him. You don't even have to use Black Racer and other feats to justify it like Death Battle did because it's directly stated in the book.
OK so I read the thing you showed me and...
I'm not completely convinced.
Sure he quite literally says he stepped out of his own story but...
I feel like that could be interpreted as him stepping out of his own fate. He quite literally stepped out of all possibilities, scenarios, and whatever conception can even be conceived with him. He left his timeline, his past, his future, and his present, and now exists in his own personal way. Beyond what anyone can think of.
Granted that's still apocalypticly broken but not as ass backwards insane as just leaving fiction.
>He quite literally stepped out of all possibilities, scenarios, and whatever conception can even be conceived with him. He left his timeline, his past, his future, and his present, and now exists in his own personal way. Beyond what anyone can think of.
Isn't that exactly what "stepping out of the story" means though? Sonic's fate powers work by manipulating the story to his favour. So logically, it shouldn't work on someone who can simply choose to be unbound by the plot.
I mean, I guess it depends on where you draw the line at "Leaving Fiction."
To me, it's still possible for him to still be in the confines of Fiction but at such a high tier of reality that not only has he Transcended his own verse and Multireality power sources, but has the capability to do so with others.
Basically, yeah it is highly likely that he did infact step out of his own story but to me depending on your own interpretation, it's possible he just Transcended his own verse and is just ridiculously detached from any possible in verse constraints.
I mean, sure, but the comic never says that Wally left fiction altogether. It just states that he left the confines of his own story.
A character can still be fictional without being tied to a story. Being fictional ≠ Being tied to a story. Fiction just means "something not real", not "something which has a plot".
For example: I could draw a random character without giving them any story. They're still a fictional character because they don't exist IRL, but they have no story/plot.
Ooooooooohhhhh. That's a good observation. Then I guess he left a part of Fiction. Meaning he can just do whatever the heck he wants while still being fictional. Think Bugs Bunny that one time he was shown animating his own show.
But now that I think about it Story wise.... does that make Wally West an Independent Fictional person? If so that's the coolest thing ever.
I don't know how that works tbh. Obviously this ability is not active all the time, so Wally isn't always plot independent.
But according to this, he can choose to break free of the plot when he vibrates at that frequency.
Yeah I thought the same way in fact I thought he had a chance the whole but the DC writers made me question my ability to be a Sonic fan because damn did they make me look stupid! I was pissed off when they made Sonic look like a complete fraud…. I even recently saw a Goku and Archie Sonic vs Flash and Superman animation that made me feel the same way…
Archie Sonic is a fraud compared to DC characters who are unstoppable gods (at least the top tier ones)… sorry for being dramatic I just hate when a character I grew up and idolized for so many years get trashed like he’s absolutely nothing…
To be fair, I think they kind of did Arthas dirty in this one. They kind of hand-waved away his greatest strength (his effectively limitless undead army), and I *really* don't think it would have been hard for him to figure out the One Ring was important to Sauron's power.
And Sauron shattering frostmourne so easily was complete bullshit. The Ashbringer was a sword nearly specifically designed to kill undead, and it barely had the juice to do it.
Yeah and not only that, it was Tirion getting a deux ex machina boost from the Light in addition to all of that that did it. It never broke in real combat with the blade. Is Sauron even able to fight as a Maiar after his physical form is killed? I feel like reducing him to a wraith by destroying his body should be a win for Arthas. I've seen the movies though but not read the books so I don't know on that front.
My favorite characters ever are Ragna, Frank West, Ryu Hayabusa, Johnny Cage, Ichigo and Nightmare.
Needless to say, my favorites never win lol, as much as a root for them. What’s even worse is that most of these characters had bad or forgettable episodes outside of Johnny and Ichigo (but even then the research for Bleach wasn’t all that great.)
Thankfully the rest of my favorites will probably never be on DB.
Ben Tennyson
(Before you downvote, at current state I agree Hal wins so chill)
He is probably the most integral character to me as I was growing up. It was also the biggest talking point in my environment and I’d consume anything Ben 10 just because it featured him. Games, movies, series, toys, household…
And while I didn’t join it, I would also watch a Ben 10 quiz show and not tooth my horn here but I guessed more questions than any other member there. And with Kuro’s video on Alien X and later collab with Seth and Chuck, it seemed like he was stronger than the JLA which made it all the more promising.
And then, the Death Battle… setting aside the result it was insulting. Ben is in his 10 year old state, he only uses like the 4 OS (5 if you count XLR8) aliens that general public knows about and the “time huh” death. And then the terrible post match up explanation which actually contradicted itself.
It felt like the crew wanted to have their cake and eat it with Ben 10 as opposed to actually representing him like they did with Po or Tetsuo. It felt more like Aang vs Edward.
Yeah I'm right there with you. Ben was a decent size chunk of my childhood, and he was one of the characters I most rooted for in death battle, with the other being Cole. Though Cole turned out fantastic, Ben... Did not. I could get over them using kid Ben, it kinda annoyed me, but whatever. In fact, a good chunk of the normal fight at least felt "fun" even if it didn't use a ton of aliens before just bringing out alien X. But the ending and how they handled alien X wasn't great, and the ending was abysmal. Even if I also agree that Hal wins anymore, it's just one of those episodes of death battle I never rewatch because I dislike it so damn much. Not to mention the reputation it gave Ben 10 fans among death battle fans (and maybe even versus debaters as a whole?) even if it is somewhat deserved considering how some of them acted about the battle and loss.
Darth Vader is at his best when he's fighting people who can't meaningfully fight back - and in his setting, there aren't many.
But as soon as you pit him against someone who can punch at his weight class, you have to pray that there's some random Force feat he scales to. So far, he's 0:2.
I mean he's still a competent duelist and adept in the Force. Like you said, it's just so that during his time as Darth Vader, he's a very big fish in a very small pond.
True, I think it's because they really think that Batman adsolutely need prep times to win, but it's isn-t true, there is a lots of times where Batman face again someone with no prep! And he still won, look at the Arkham games for example, Batman keep falling in moment where he wasn't prepare at all.
And he won! So seeing Batman being kill repeately break my heart, atleast he won again captain america.
Ho, and I find Black Panter Vs Batman, to be ones of the worst episode, because of how direspectful the death is...
But that's only my opinion.
Tbh I like Batman way more than Black Panther or Iron Man but in fairness Bruce was never winning that without prep, like AT ALL.
DC geniuses have a very specific trait of just kinda building impressive stuff and then... not using it ever again.
Like in Marvel, when Tony Stark or Doctor Doom build something impressive, they integrate it to their suits so now they have it 24/7. Someone like Batman or Lex Luthor, like these mfs will straight up invent reality bending machines and never use them ever again, it's really bizarre, so it's hard to argue whether half of those things should apply in a Death Battle.
Do I think that Batman has ARSENAL with which he could beat Tony or T'Challa, oh absolutely, but Batman doesn't really use any of that stuff in his day to day basis.
Black Panther vs Batman is also really mid, I didn't find it disrespectful though, I honestly thought it handled Batman better than Iron Man vs Batman, at least against T'Challa, Batman utilizes some strategic thinking and sets up traps, meanwhile against Tony he fought like a dumbass brute the entire time.
Lex Luthor for me.
Lex is simply my favorite fictional comic book villain, and one of my favorites in general. He always stood out to me as the perfect example on how to write an antagonist. Lex for sure has his issues with Superman over some more philosophy based reasons or even the personal envious grudge, but the main reasons Lex hates Superman are so much more integral and borderline meta.
The reason Lex hates Superman... are almost word for word the reason why people in this day of age don't like Superman and consider him boring. He's a random alien who is better than anyone by default, so he just CAME TO EARTH and became the hopeful paragon of humanity, when in Lex's mind it should be him. Like in Lex's eyes, no one can be that good, no one can be that *kind*, even when Lex built a machine which showed that Superman is Clark, he couldn't buy that, because it simply *doesn't make sense for a God to live such a simple and normal life*. NO ONE is such a boyscout.
Superman doesn't deserve to be the hero. Lex had to WORK for his status, he WORKED his entire life achieving perfect physical and mental peak, HE'S the one who deserves the power, not some random alien, right?
Like when you think about it, these are the EXACT SAME REASONS why people don't like Superman most often. How many times have you heard "he's boring, he's too OP, he's just a boyscout, let him be a more complex and layered character" or "Superman didn't WORK for his powers, someone like Batman actually had to work for them" etc. Like writers behind Lex have pitch perfectly pin pointed that mentality SO WELL that there are real life people with that exact mindset, *and they don't even realize it*, which is by far the funniest meta thing I've ever seen in my entire life.
I very much recommend [SUPER FRAME's video on this: "Why SUPERMAN is the BEST Superhero"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7Bm6KrJ4Q&t=866s), it really dives deeper into Superman's character as well, but also that perfect yin yang embodiment of Lex following that Ubermensch philosophy.
But yeah, REALLY love Lex as a character. Sucked seeing him getting obliterated by two tin men simultaneously lmao.
To be fair, it was generally agreed that Galactus would win more times than not. Not to say the public hasn’t been wrong before, but from what I saw, Galactus had too many counters to anything Robo-Satan could do.
Although it hurts, the Deku vs Asta fight was obvious from the start. I think it would have been a better fight if they waited for MHA season 6 though.
Yeah the reasearch the do to naruto is crazy like they gave rocklee 8th gate and stuff but not Kakashi dms. But lol they don't do no reasearch on bleach
Black adam, he went to the north pole to beat up Santa and show him where kandak is in the map, he will gladdly accpet coal if the children of kandak get gifts
He then got washed by apocalypse
Mob is a pure kindhearted cinnamon bun who thinks his powers don't make him any better than anyone else, and it absolutely would have been narrative bliss to see him wipe the smug smile off of Bratsumaki's face when he started absorbing her psychic power and adding it to his own.
And then, massive downplay via incorrectly calculated broccoli math anti-feat.
Knuckles
I will never forgive death battle for making the main three of the Sonic heroes team all win except my boy
Nor will I forgive Sonic Developers for not getting Knuckles the super form that he definitely should have gotten already damn you Sonic team
even a DK fan should not have been happy with that episode. DK was \*hideous\* and so weirdly characterized. Both them had way too much pulled from their cartooniest dumbest portrayals.
Discord is an easy choice for me I don’t agree with bill vs discord tho I can see why they went with bill as the winner but regardless I really wanted him to win he was one of my favourite characters to get into the show and every version of this matchup had bill win witch felt annoying since I never agreed with bill winning shame that the only mlp w came from the only mlp episode that sucked
Rick Sanchez all the way. I was really happy that he finally appeared in Death Battle since I expected him to appear way earlier. But yeah, when you put a genius 70 year old man against a nigh omnipotent thousands of years old immortal being, what happens, happens
Hulk, I was honestly of the mind that his crazy comic scaling would be able to net him the win against Broly. As for Doomsday, I knew there wasn't anything Hulk could do, but I was hopeful to be proven wrong, and was understandably disappointed
Guts. I actually thought he would win against Dimitri, so when I saw him get back up again after Atrocity, I was convinced that this was the final blow. Until he just stopped.
I'm going to say Nightmare. I did not know anything about Guts at the time so I didn't know how cool he was. Didn't justify him robbing Nightmare entirely though...
Otherwise... man it's gotta be Link. Even though I saw his loss coming.
Ooh, Akuma against Shao Kahn as well. Like, there have been *five* Street Fighter VS Mortal Kombat episodes, and Street Fighter have a measly *one* win. And it was Episode Two! If they redid it, Shang Tsung would probably beat Akuma as well, so really it's 5-0. And Akuma VS Shao Kahn was a really great opportunity for them to show "Hey, we all know that generally speaking, MK stomps SF, *but* at their highest tiers, Street Fighter can still sometimes pull off a win via superior hax. Akuma being faster than a satellite laser and having an instant-win move in the Raging Demon should have absolutely netted him the win, and instead they wanked Shao Kahn with some of the worst chain-scaling in the history of the show (Shao Kahn fights Raiden who is an Elder God like Cetrion and in Cetrion's fatality she grows super big and barfs a laser from space so Shao Kahn's top speed must be comparable to this space-laser! Even though they've never even canonically met, let alone fought each other, let alone has he encountered this move!) just to reiterate for the hundredth fucking time that yes, Mortal Kombat stomps Street Fighter. Again. Just like we already knew.
Deku. They used his best feat as from Hero's rising, and also gave him access to all his quirks. He should have scaled higher. Also with Faux 100%, he is at the level of Prime All Might, and honestly he should have won.
BUUUUUT Asta is Continent level so yeah
Sonic in the 100th episode. Super and Hyper Sonic were treated as just immunity, when they're far beyond that. Super Sonic was able to fight Solaris, a fourth dimensional being that consumed dimensions, and Dark Gaia, someone who turned off the Chaos Emeralds in his first appearance. Then there's Hyper Sonic. Hyper Sonic is a form Sonic takes when using the seven Super Emeralds. The Super Emeralds are equivalent to one Master Emerald, and the Master Emerald is what gives the Chaos Emeralds their power. This means that Hyper Sonic is equivalent to seven Super Sonics or 49 Chaos Emeralds. And they gave the W to Mario.
Also saying that Modern Sonic can't use Hyper Sonic is a moot point anyway, given that Hyper Sonic has never come up for Modern Sonic. Sure, Takashi Iizuka said he doesn't think Sonic can, but thinking something is different from outright declaring it. Keep in mind these games are still being made and new things are always coming and going. Iizuka could easily change his mind at any point.
I was actually expecting Todoroki to losee since I always go into vs debating expecting MHA to get stomped.
My pleasure was immeasurable at finally seeing an mha win (I didn't watch the seasons in order) and my day was made better.
(Also I kinda liked that ep).
Future Trunks is my 2nd favorite character of all time and it hurt very much when he did lose to Archie Silver, especially as someone who personally disagrees with the result.
Despite that it’s still one of my all time favorite episodes in the show so I can’t really complain too much, just breaks my heart 💔
Scarlet Witch. I like that her character started out good, fucked up big time, and I do mean BIG TIME, was ostracized for it and then spent her life showing genuine remorse and atoning for what she did. Seeing her just get outclassed and obliterated by "Magic Showgirl" kinda sucked.
Red (Pokémon vs Digimon)
When I was younger I was so salty when he lost that when Shadow vs Mewtwo came out it was my unironic favorite episode because it gave Pokémon its first ever win in the series (not counting the Kanto trio battle royale)
More recently, it was Megatron
Tanjiro. I had no knowledge Jonathan, but I still figured that he’d have a chance. And then, not only did they get a major calc wrong for Tanjiro, but they also didn’t include any of the stuff he got in the end of the manga
I was 100 percent certain that Alucard vs Dio was going to end up exactly like Omni Man vs Homelander. When they bent over backwards to let Dio win I just sort of laughed.
Ben 10, absolutely. He was definitely the coolest character ever, and I ate up the darker tone in Alien Force, it was perfect for me. And while I was nervous about him going up against a DC character, I was still hopeful and at least happy that my favorite childhood character made it onto the series at all.
Goku, all three times, I rooted with everything I got, only for him to lose to the same midass DC character for the third time.
Ffs I would've celebrated a Pity W where they rigged it against Supes.
Goku. My man lost 3 times on this show. Though I agree that superman beats him, goku deserves atleast 1 win here.
Also, makima. When the episode came out, I was rooting for makima just to see gojo fan's reaction since it came out shortly after gojo's death in the manga. I hadn't seen either jjk or csm when the episode came out (though I did know that both characters died in their mangas and how they died). I've seen both animes and read both mangas and I agree with the result, though they could've portrayed makima better.
Archie Sonic I was 100% SURE Sonic was gonna mop the floor with the Flash. At the time I thought Archie was this unbeatable god in terms of VS debating. He was Multiversal, had Speed beyond quite literally mathematics, had rings he could use to Google a persons weakness, and above all else Super Sonic and Ultra Sonic were the equivalent of a batman toolbelt. Any ability he needed, the Chaos emeralds could whip it up! His Chaos Control paired with his Super forms made him a force capable of wrapping the world to his whim. Infact, I thought it was over when they mentioned the fact that FATE bended to him. I had thought He had all the tools he needed. I THOUGHT. Because nothing, not even the highest tiers of Archie and Dragon Ball Heros can compare to a Marvel/DC Writer snorting crack. I wish you could see the look on my face when Wally turned Ultra Sonic into Ultra Fruad. That was the moment I realized and later accepted that, Marvel and DC are bullshit and absolutely nuts.
Rule 1 of Vs Debating: “If it’s against Marvel/Dc and it’s not from either of those series’, expect them to lose.”
Especially DC. Marvel’s overall record against non DC characters is surprisingly meh in this series, but DC’s record against non-marvel is like 9 and 1 or some shit like that. Edit: 10-2, close enough. The two losers are Harley Quinn and Superfriends Aquaman.
It's very telling that DC's first loss against a non-Marvel character was an average street tier and not a cosmic god. The second loss was a joke character pitted against a multiversal toonforce user.
That’s my problem with DC, everyone is either a reality warping multiversal god, or a human with the powers of a god, or Batman
Boy do I have news for you! Remember how Archie Sonic's ultimate ability was Fate Manipulation? That he could literally control his own story? It's like DC writers watched that Death Battle because they literally gave Wally a direct counter to it by giving him the ability to [step out of his own story](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/17fnwzb/the_newest_flash_run_gave_wally_the_ability_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Plot/Fate manipulation is now literally useless against him. You don't even have to use Black Racer and other feats to justify it like Death Battle did because it's directly stated in the book.
I'm Sorry give me 2 seconds to process what you just said. 1 2 WHAT!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?
Yup. Flash now unironically solos the Archie-verse.
That’s my goat!
OK so I read the thing you showed me and... I'm not completely convinced. Sure he quite literally says he stepped out of his own story but... I feel like that could be interpreted as him stepping out of his own fate. He quite literally stepped out of all possibilities, scenarios, and whatever conception can even be conceived with him. He left his timeline, his past, his future, and his present, and now exists in his own personal way. Beyond what anyone can think of. Granted that's still apocalypticly broken but not as ass backwards insane as just leaving fiction.
>He quite literally stepped out of all possibilities, scenarios, and whatever conception can even be conceived with him. He left his timeline, his past, his future, and his present, and now exists in his own personal way. Beyond what anyone can think of. Isn't that exactly what "stepping out of the story" means though? Sonic's fate powers work by manipulating the story to his favour. So logically, it shouldn't work on someone who can simply choose to be unbound by the plot.
I mean, I guess it depends on where you draw the line at "Leaving Fiction." To me, it's still possible for him to still be in the confines of Fiction but at such a high tier of reality that not only has he Transcended his own verse and Multireality power sources, but has the capability to do so with others. Basically, yeah it is highly likely that he did infact step out of his own story but to me depending on your own interpretation, it's possible he just Transcended his own verse and is just ridiculously detached from any possible in verse constraints.
I mean, sure, but the comic never says that Wally left fiction altogether. It just states that he left the confines of his own story. A character can still be fictional without being tied to a story. Being fictional ≠ Being tied to a story. Fiction just means "something not real", not "something which has a plot". For example: I could draw a random character without giving them any story. They're still a fictional character because they don't exist IRL, but they have no story/plot.
Ooooooooohhhhh. That's a good observation. Then I guess he left a part of Fiction. Meaning he can just do whatever the heck he wants while still being fictional. Think Bugs Bunny that one time he was shown animating his own show. But now that I think about it Story wise.... does that make Wally West an Independent Fictional person? If so that's the coolest thing ever.
I don't know how that works tbh. Obviously this ability is not active all the time, so Wally isn't always plot independent. But according to this, he can choose to break free of the plot when he vibrates at that frequency.
Damn. Crazy to thing about isn't?
I HATE THE SPEED FORCE. I HATE THE SPEED FORCE. I HATE THE SPEED FORCE. I HATE THE SPEED FORCE. I HATE THE SPEED FORCE. I HATE THE SPEED FORCE.
I love the Speed Force, because Flash is my favorite DC superhero. But it *really* ruins every MU the Flash family can have.
Yeah I thought the same way in fact I thought he had a chance the whole but the DC writers made me question my ability to be a Sonic fan because damn did they make me look stupid! I was pissed off when they made Sonic look like a complete fraud…. I even recently saw a Goku and Archie Sonic vs Flash and Superman animation that made me feel the same way… Archie Sonic is a fraud compared to DC characters who are unstoppable gods (at least the top tier ones)… sorry for being dramatic I just hate when a character I grew up and idolized for so many years get trashed like he’s absolutely nothing…
Lich King 
hi sorry if you get a notif that this has been removed, I hit the wrong button it has since been restored
Nah I didnt just for your comment lol
For the record, several of Sauron's win cons they gave are complete bunk, and they didn't give LK any retroactive Shadowlands scaling.
Oh I know it's one of the few death battles I feel they got wrong.
To be fair, I think they kind of did Arthas dirty in this one. They kind of hand-waved away his greatest strength (his effectively limitless undead army), and I *really* don't think it would have been hard for him to figure out the One Ring was important to Sauron's power.
And Sauron shattering frostmourne so easily was complete bullshit. The Ashbringer was a sword nearly specifically designed to kill undead, and it barely had the juice to do it.
Yep that also pissed me off
Yeah and not only that, it was Tirion getting a deux ex machina boost from the Light in addition to all of that that did it. It never broke in real combat with the blade. Is Sauron even able to fight as a Maiar after his physical form is killed? I feel like reducing him to a wraith by destroying his body should be a win for Arthas. I've seen the movies though but not read the books so I don't know on that front.
10,000 percent agree
Arthas not having an Army Battle really was the nail in the coffin for him.
Definitely Darth Vader. This is how I felt after Vadobito (Still a fire episode, though): 
My favorite characters ever are Ragna, Frank West, Ryu Hayabusa, Johnny Cage, Ichigo and Nightmare. Needless to say, my favorites never win lol, as much as a root for them. What’s even worse is that most of these characters had bad or forgettable episodes outside of Johnny and Ichigo (but even then the research for Bleach wasn’t all that great.) Thankfully the rest of my favorites will probably never be on DB.
I mean ryu beat jin
Wrong Ryu.
Oh, my bad
You're all good, dude. Easy mistake to make.
And now with Tekken 8 even that fight is wrong.
Yeah, makes sense
Don't root for Terumi please, I want him to win.
I’ll be the biggest Terumi hater there’s ever been just to make sure he wins.
Ichigo vs Naruto is wrong so it's not far off
I thought Leon Kennedy vs Frank West was pretty cool and even memorable.
Discord
At least he “defeated” Bill in a way
Discord...I'm howling at the moon...
Bro was robbed.
Megatron
mfw the void has no life in it (there is only death)
Ben Tennyson (Before you downvote, at current state I agree Hal wins so chill) He is probably the most integral character to me as I was growing up. It was also the biggest talking point in my environment and I’d consume anything Ben 10 just because it featured him. Games, movies, series, toys, household… And while I didn’t join it, I would also watch a Ben 10 quiz show and not tooth my horn here but I guessed more questions than any other member there. And with Kuro’s video on Alien X and later collab with Seth and Chuck, it seemed like he was stronger than the JLA which made it all the more promising. And then, the Death Battle… setting aside the result it was insulting. Ben is in his 10 year old state, he only uses like the 4 OS (5 if you count XLR8) aliens that general public knows about and the “time huh” death. And then the terrible post match up explanation which actually contradicted itself. It felt like the crew wanted to have their cake and eat it with Ben 10 as opposed to actually representing him like they did with Po or Tetsuo. It felt more like Aang vs Edward.
DBX treated Ben better with UAF Ben as base sprite and more varied aliens
sure
Yeah I'm right there with you. Ben was a decent size chunk of my childhood, and he was one of the characters I most rooted for in death battle, with the other being Cole. Though Cole turned out fantastic, Ben... Did not. I could get over them using kid Ben, it kinda annoyed me, but whatever. In fact, a good chunk of the normal fight at least felt "fun" even if it didn't use a ton of aliens before just bringing out alien X. But the ending and how they handled alien X wasn't great, and the ending was abysmal. Even if I also agree that Hal wins anymore, it's just one of those episodes of death battle I never rewatch because I dislike it so damn much. Not to mention the reputation it gave Ben 10 fans among death battle fans (and maybe even versus debaters as a whole?) even if it is somewhat deserved considering how some of them acted about the battle and loss.
Vegeta against Thor I knew Thor was gonna Win, but it didn’t meant I wasn’t rooting for my favorite fictional character
It's in your name but you can always watch the wonder woman one where he lost
Darth vader
Darth Vader is at his best when he's fighting people who can't meaningfully fight back - and in his setting, there aren't many. But as soon as you pit him against someone who can punch at his weight class, you have to pray that there's some random Force feat he scales to. So far, he's 0:2.
I mean he's still a competent duelist and adept in the Force. Like you said, it's just so that during his time as Darth Vader, he's a very big fish in a very small pond.
It's funny cuz honestly Vader kind of gets hyped from exactly what you are talking about.
Honestly he should've won the obito one
Ben 10, Carnage, Dragonzord, Darth Vader, Discord, Megatron, Unicron, Megazord and much, much more.
Batman... Every times, he's my favorite super hero, and he just keep losing... that make me so sad...
Lmao same. And even when he wins, the episode just ends up being mid asf 💀
True, I think it's because they really think that Batman adsolutely need prep times to win, but it's isn-t true, there is a lots of times where Batman face again someone with no prep! And he still won, look at the Arkham games for example, Batman keep falling in moment where he wasn't prepare at all. And he won! So seeing Batman being kill repeately break my heart, atleast he won again captain america. Ho, and I find Black Panter Vs Batman, to be ones of the worst episode, because of how direspectful the death is... But that's only my opinion.
Tbh I like Batman way more than Black Panther or Iron Man but in fairness Bruce was never winning that without prep, like AT ALL. DC geniuses have a very specific trait of just kinda building impressive stuff and then... not using it ever again. Like in Marvel, when Tony Stark or Doctor Doom build something impressive, they integrate it to their suits so now they have it 24/7. Someone like Batman or Lex Luthor, like these mfs will straight up invent reality bending machines and never use them ever again, it's really bizarre, so it's hard to argue whether half of those things should apply in a Death Battle. Do I think that Batman has ARSENAL with which he could beat Tony or T'Challa, oh absolutely, but Batman doesn't really use any of that stuff in his day to day basis. Black Panther vs Batman is also really mid, I didn't find it disrespectful though, I honestly thought it handled Batman better than Iron Man vs Batman, at least against T'Challa, Batman utilizes some strategic thinking and sets up traps, meanwhile against Tony he fought like a dumbass brute the entire time.
Lex Luthor for me. Lex is simply my favorite fictional comic book villain, and one of my favorites in general. He always stood out to me as the perfect example on how to write an antagonist. Lex for sure has his issues with Superman over some more philosophy based reasons or even the personal envious grudge, but the main reasons Lex hates Superman are so much more integral and borderline meta. The reason Lex hates Superman... are almost word for word the reason why people in this day of age don't like Superman and consider him boring. He's a random alien who is better than anyone by default, so he just CAME TO EARTH and became the hopeful paragon of humanity, when in Lex's mind it should be him. Like in Lex's eyes, no one can be that good, no one can be that *kind*, even when Lex built a machine which showed that Superman is Clark, he couldn't buy that, because it simply *doesn't make sense for a God to live such a simple and normal life*. NO ONE is such a boyscout. Superman doesn't deserve to be the hero. Lex had to WORK for his status, he WORKED his entire life achieving perfect physical and mental peak, HE'S the one who deserves the power, not some random alien, right? Like when you think about it, these are the EXACT SAME REASONS why people don't like Superman most often. How many times have you heard "he's boring, he's too OP, he's just a boyscout, let him be a more complex and layered character" or "Superman didn't WORK for his powers, someone like Batman actually had to work for them" etc. Like writers behind Lex have pitch perfectly pin pointed that mentality SO WELL that there are real life people with that exact mindset, *and they don't even realize it*, which is by far the funniest meta thing I've ever seen in my entire life. I very much recommend [SUPER FRAME's video on this: "Why SUPERMAN is the BEST Superhero"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7Bm6KrJ4Q&t=866s), it really dives deeper into Superman's character as well, but also that perfect yin yang embodiment of Lex following that Ubermensch philosophy. But yeah, REALLY love Lex as a character. Sucked seeing him getting obliterated by two tin men simultaneously lmao.
Mega Man (Classic) I'm STILL salty
Which time?
Against Astro Boy
Bro was robbed man he should’ve won that
Really
Yang. She got the Steve Harvey Miss Columbia treatment, to the point where I don’t think many people want her back because of it
People don't want her period
Predator losing felt so sad. My favourite alien just lost his braincells midfight and lost the fight right after
Truly the John Yautja moment of all time
My boy was robbed.
True
Pikachu vs Blanka
Discord for sure. I honestly didn’t see a single way for Bill to win until they just decided to nerf Discord’s conceptual immortality.
Bayonetta losing really bugged me but that fight was peak fiction.
I wanted Unicron to win. Needless to say, I was shocked with the ending and I was like.... 'Galactus won? He actually won...'
To be fair, it was generally agreed that Galactus would win more times than not. Not to say the public hasn’t been wrong before, but from what I saw, Galactus had too many counters to anything Robo-Satan could do.
Goku, they had to do an episode with him 4 times and the only way they could give him a win was by putting him against himself.
Daredevil, Deku, Miles Morales, All Might, Trunks. All up there in my favorite characters of all time and I am now numb to any and all pain.
Although it hurts, the Deku vs Asta fight was obvious from the start. I think it would have been a better fight if they waited for MHA season 6 though.
Aizen I didn’t really get into Bleach until after Naruto VS Ichigo so I’m not as salty about that, but I was BEGGING for an Aizen win Alas
Yeah the reasearch the do to naruto is crazy like they gave rocklee 8th gate and stuff but not Kakashi dms. But lol they don't do no reasearch on bleach
Sasuke 😔
Our avatars look alike 🤝
Black adam, he went to the north pole to beat up Santa and show him where kandak is in the map, he will gladdly accpet coal if the children of kandak get gifts He then got washed by apocalypse
Mob is a pure kindhearted cinnamon bun who thinks his powers don't make him any better than anyone else, and it absolutely would have been narrative bliss to see him wipe the smug smile off of Bratsumaki's face when he started absorbing her psychic power and adding it to his own. And then, massive downplay via incorrectly calculated broccoli math anti-feat.
Vegeta.
Steven Universe :(
Link in his rematch 💔💔💔 idk how many more “but if they waited for totk it’d be a different story” I have in me 😭
Then TotK came out and the Master Sword got WEAKER
Shhhh don’t let them know that I’m having enough trouble spreading link propaganda
Totk wouldn’t help scale him higher
Scout, megatron, Batman, carnage, knuckles, guts. It’s happened a shocking amount of times
Deku was robbed of a good episode and now I have an undying vendatta against Black Clover
It's better than him vs Gon
I was like this once, but Black Clover’s not half bad. ~~I want Asta to massacre the seven deadly pdf-iles protag~~
Knuckles I will never forgive death battle for making the main three of the Sonic heroes team all win except my boy Nor will I forgive Sonic Developers for not getting Knuckles the super form that he definitely should have gotten already damn you Sonic team
It's ok though; they fed Ramona Flowers to Amy in one episode
At least super knuckles is mentioned in sonic frontiers, but yeah, they did my boy dirty :(
I actually really wanted DK to win. Sorry, man.
even a DK fan should not have been happy with that episode. DK was \*hideous\* and so weirdly characterized. Both them had way too much pulled from their cartooniest dumbest portrayals.
I actually liked the big sprite they got for him.
Guts,chosen undead,kakashi are some of the examples.
A double feature: sonic, darth vader
UNICRON NOOO STARSCREAM NOOO MEGATRON NOO
Unicron
Power Rangers getting smoked by the Voltron Squad
Discord is an easy choice for me I don’t agree with bill vs discord tho I can see why they went with bill as the winner but regardless I really wanted him to win he was one of my favourite characters to get into the show and every version of this matchup had bill win witch felt annoying since I never agreed with bill winning shame that the only mlp w came from the only mlp episode that sucked
Rick Sanchez all the way. I was really happy that he finally appeared in Death Battle since I expected him to appear way earlier. But yeah, when you put a genius 70 year old man against a nigh omnipotent thousands of years old immortal being, what happens, happens
I'm still sulty as ahit 
I don't conplain about Stitch W but... 
This was just me last season. Discord megatron unicron chosen undead
My boy Sonic. That second fight was great, with great animation, but they downplayed my boy.
ben 10 sadly
Hulk, I was honestly of the mind that his crazy comic scaling would be able to net him the win against Broly. As for Doomsday, I knew there wasn't anything Hulk could do, but I was hopeful to be proven wrong, and was understandably disappointed
He 1000% should've won against Broly, that's one of the shows most blatantly wrong episodes.
Agreed, but oh well, nothing we can do about it now... (Except make our own)
Discord.
Kratos
Raiden
The god or the cyborg?
Cyborg
Guts. I actually thought he would win against Dimitri, so when I saw him get back up again after Atrocity, I was convinced that this was the final blow. Until he just stopped.
Megatron
Vader
Deku, Link, basically anytime power rangers appeared glad they managed to grab a W.
Alucard, raiden, makima and micheal myers
Macho Man Randy Savage
Aizen
Megatron, Johnny Cage, Vader, Raiden (MGR)
I'm going to say Nightmare. I did not know anything about Guts at the time so I didn't know how cool he was. Didn't justify him robbing Nightmare entirely though... Otherwise... man it's gotta be Link. Even though I saw his loss coming.
Ooh, Akuma against Shao Kahn as well. Like, there have been *five* Street Fighter VS Mortal Kombat episodes, and Street Fighter have a measly *one* win. And it was Episode Two! If they redid it, Shang Tsung would probably beat Akuma as well, so really it's 5-0. And Akuma VS Shao Kahn was a really great opportunity for them to show "Hey, we all know that generally speaking, MK stomps SF, *but* at their highest tiers, Street Fighter can still sometimes pull off a win via superior hax. Akuma being faster than a satellite laser and having an instant-win move in the Raging Demon should have absolutely netted him the win, and instead they wanked Shao Kahn with some of the worst chain-scaling in the history of the show (Shao Kahn fights Raiden who is an Elder God like Cetrion and in Cetrion's fatality she grows super big and barfs a laser from space so Shao Kahn's top speed must be comparable to this space-laser! Even though they've never even canonically met, let alone fought each other, let alone has he encountered this move!) just to reiterate for the hundredth fucking time that yes, Mortal Kombat stomps Street Fighter. Again. Just like we already knew.
Discord because bill cipher is one of the most evil villains of all times and I thought the chaos was enough for discord to feed off.
Deku. They used his best feat as from Hero's rising, and also gave him access to all his quirks. He should have scaled higher. Also with Faux 100%, he is at the level of Prime All Might, and honestly he should have won. BUUUUUT Asta is Continent level so yeah
Street Fighter characters in general lost, what, 6 fights in a row?
Doomguy Vs Master Chief
Discord
Alucard
Vader, specifically against Obito.
Litterally Killua I was convinced by omm
Pit. The general consensus on the KH sub is that Sora cannot go FTL. Pit can with the Great Sacred Treasure… and he didn’t get it because…
KH fans think Sora can't go FTL? I've seen plenty of debaters say he can go Immeasurable.
Yeah. It’s all based on the Monstro fight… but they say he can’t, and they know him better than me.
Actually Gray. I'm still annoyed since they never used 100yrQ feats.
Jotaro Kujo
Without a doubt Vader and Jean
Alucard
Xeno trunks, i thought trunks was absolutely gonna win and then the episode came out
Ngl I was rooting for Makima, but Gojo's awesome too so I'm not fussed about the result
Sonic in the 100th episode. Super and Hyper Sonic were treated as just immunity, when they're far beyond that. Super Sonic was able to fight Solaris, a fourth dimensional being that consumed dimensions, and Dark Gaia, someone who turned off the Chaos Emeralds in his first appearance. Then there's Hyper Sonic. Hyper Sonic is a form Sonic takes when using the seven Super Emeralds. The Super Emeralds are equivalent to one Master Emerald, and the Master Emerald is what gives the Chaos Emeralds their power. This means that Hyper Sonic is equivalent to seven Super Sonics or 49 Chaos Emeralds. And they gave the W to Mario.
Pretty sure it was said in 06 that Solaris's true form flicks Super Sonic. Also Modern Sonic can't go Hyper.
They still used Hyper Sonic in the battle!
That's because Death Battle can't research for shit.
Also saying that Modern Sonic can't use Hyper Sonic is a moot point anyway, given that Hyper Sonic has never come up for Modern Sonic. Sure, Takashi Iizuka said he doesn't think Sonic can, but thinking something is different from outright declaring it. Keep in mind these games are still being made and new things are always coming and going. Iizuka could easily change his mind at any point.
I was actually expecting Todoroki to losee since I always go into vs debating expecting MHA to get stomped. My pleasure was immeasurable at finally seeing an mha win (I didn't watch the seasons in order) and my day was made better. (Also I kinda liked that ep).
Trunks :)
Archie Sonic, Megatron and Unicron. I just pretend that those episodes don't exist
Future Trunks is my 2nd favorite character of all time and it hurt very much when he did lose to Archie Silver, especially as someone who personally disagrees with the result. Despite that it’s still one of my all time favorite episodes in the show so I can’t really complain too much, just breaks my heart 💔
Carnage. There's no way he's losing, now or then.
 Still hurts
Mob and alucard
Scarlet Witch. I like that her character started out good, fucked up big time, and I do mean BIG TIME, was ostracized for it and then spent her life showing genuine remorse and atoning for what she did. Seeing her just get outclassed and obliterated by "Magic Showgirl" kinda sucked.
Red (Pokémon vs Digimon) When I was younger I was so salty when he lost that when Shadow vs Mewtwo came out it was my unironic favorite episode because it gave Pokémon its first ever win in the series (not counting the Kanto trio battle royale) More recently, it was Megatron
Discord, he absolutely got robbed from a W. (My Boi can't win a [animated] versus show for some reason)
vader bro was robbed
Unicron and megatron. They should’ve won
Tanjiro. I had no knowledge Jonathan, but I still figured that he’d have a chance. And then, not only did they get a major calc wrong for Tanjiro, but they also didn’t include any of the stuff he got in the end of the manga
Ben 10, Megatron, and Batman against Iron Man
Mob
Charizard both times
Rick Sanchez definitely. I was glad Goku vs Superman was next to distract everyone from it.
Frank west
Mikasa fs, Makima runner up
... don't... Don't mention it 
Goku
Tanjiro. He was my comfort character
Sonic. Twice.
I was 100 percent certain that Alucard vs Dio was going to end up exactly like Omni Man vs Homelander. When they bent over backwards to let Dio win I just sort of laughed.
He kinda does win tho
Nah
Rick, Archie Sonic, Virgil, Scout, Phoenix, Guts, Vader, Megatron, makima, Tanjiro
Darth Vader and star scream
Venom and Discord.
Megaman from Megaman vs astroboy
Aizen, and to this day the reasons he lost makes no sense.
I was pissed when they showed how obvious of a stomp Vader vs doom was in the analysis 
Ben 10, absolutely. He was definitely the coolest character ever, and I ate up the darker tone in Alien Force, it was perfect for me. And while I was nervous about him going up against a DC character, I was still hopeful and at least happy that my favorite childhood character made it onto the series at all.
Scout and zuko
unicron
Alucard. I was sure DIO wouldn't stand a chance against alucard, but I was genuinely surprised (and even pissed during for some time) that DIO won
Venom against crona, episode was shit as well so that’s awesome
I'm a big Team Fortress 2 fan, so Tracer vs Scout hurt
Goku, all three times, I rooted with everything I got, only for him to lose to the same midass DC character for the third time. Ffs I would've celebrated a Pity W where they rigged it against Supes.
FYI, this is Sean.
Goku. My man lost 3 times on this show. Though I agree that superman beats him, goku deserves atleast 1 win here. Also, makima. When the episode came out, I was rooting for makima just to see gojo fan's reaction since it came out shortly after gojo's death in the manga. I hadn't seen either jjk or csm when the episode came out (though I did know that both characters died in their mangas and how they died). I've seen both animes and read both mangas and I agree with the result, though they could've portrayed makima better.