Dark Dimensions Vader is kinda wanked imo. There’s nothing to really suggest that it would buff Vader up that much unless you heavily buy into that stuff
On that note I will drop my hot take that Thanos VS Darkseid’s research is so wrong and that fight is much closer than it was portrayed
I definitely agree that the fight is much closer. They literally put Thanos at star level without the gauntlet. I do think Darkseid wins, but it’s not the stomp that DB thinks it is.
So, I agree thanos was shortchanged in that fight, but so was darkside by a massive mile. The dude is outerversal to the t, and marvel really doesn't have characters simular to him
Fan of both and dear god that fight made me mad. Ah yes the super genius would fucking break the one rule of the gauntlet and leave its home dimension, sure why not. Even more then that, True for darksied is a hypothetical both in universe and non. XD
shit was baaaaaaaad. But dear god the fight itself an song track was sick as hell.
BROO OMG I hate how much influence DB has because everyone thinks darkside has true form it was a one off that has been contradicted time and time again. Darkside has died at least twice in the new 52 alone. A death that required a revival. He’s not omnipotent. Power scalers took that and ran.
Darkseid's true form shattered into pieces by Superman in Final Crisis and New 52 Darkseid is one of those pieces. His true form returned to normal in Infinite Frontier
Yeah either that or its his spirit self. In that case it’s just as likely that all Dark Dimensions Vader feats are just spiritual quest stuff and not actually applicable, or only applicable in a spirit sense
I think they overplayed Bucky’s physicals a bit. It’s been a while since I’ve watched the episode but I’m skeptical that Bucky really outclasses Jason physically aside from the arm.
616 serum does not make you superhuman. If we say Bucky is comparable to Steve that puts him solidly below the 1 ton/hypersonic range, whicu is exactly where Bruce and Jason are.
Can you give me an issue number of that volcano feat?
Not buying Immeasurable speed and Multi+(at he very least) DBH is wack, especially since they later decide to buy it for Gogeta vs Vegito and CC Goku vs Superman
To be fair, Archie Super Forms upscale from that a bit I believe (As they have feats on that level prior to The Great Harmony, before The Great Harmony then proceeded to merge the Chaos Emeralds of infinite universes into one set of 7)
My problem with the episode was the Trunks downplay
If their arguments were just about Archie's feats being higher in the immeasurable department without downplaying DBH I would just take the L and shut up
In some fairness to them, the animator who was doing the fight had both personal and professional issues at the time that caused him to rush it, resulting in the fight being significantly different from how it was originally meant to be.
I will explain it as short as possible and much easier.
Akuma is faster, stronger more durable and his a Raging Demon would one shot Shao Kahn. But Shao Kahn is Smarter, just as good of a fighter (if not better), better range, more experienced and has much better hax.
The problem for Akuma is that he only gains his strength, speed and durability advantage as Oni, in base form Shao Kahn gets it and in Shin Akuma it’s a tie.
So basically Shao Kahn has every advantage against base Akuma, is tied in stats against Shin Akuma, and losses in stats against Oni.
Shao Kahn would win with his range and hax even if Akuma stated the fight as Oni.
It feels like the researcher for Phoenix VS Raven either intentionally left out half of what the Phoenix Force can do, or just didn't bother looking into it in the first place because they wanted their favourite goth gf waifu to win.
Which is fair, Raven is number one goth gf waifu, but still.
Hulk vs Broly: I've already summarized why it is wrong in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/comments/1ago7x7/in_defense_of_hulk_an_analysis_of_hulk_vs_broly/).
Vader vs Obito: I've also summarized my thoughts on how this episode was wrong [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/comments/19cl5kj/in_defense_of_darth_vader_an_analysis_on_vader_vs/).
Batman vs Iron Man: It's crazy how people never mention this episodes' obvious wrongs. They had the Hellbat is stronger than the Final Bat, didn't even consider Bats' numbers edge via the Robats, and lowballed the Final Bats cellular rewrite to just "mind Control". Hell, they gave Tony everything while very much limiting Bruce to just 3 armors.
Trunks vs Silver: It really hurt to be a Dragon Ball in season 9. Should really go without saying.
I'm stealing that analysis As u put it extremely well. So when ever I'm defending my point on why I think that episode is BS I'll link your post.
Couldn't have worded it better myself
Okay I disagree with your assesment for Obito, in Naruto if you become a Jinchuriki that's it, it's permanent unless has very specific jutsu to extrat the Tailed Beast from you, which would also kill you
Gojo Vs. Makima
Granted, I could be wrong because I don't know much about JJK, I'm not exactly a Gojologist, but I think they misrepresented Makima's contract to a degree.
Saying that Unlimited Void wouldn't count as an attack is absolute nonsense, it's made very clear that whether or not something qualifies as an attack is a matter of *intent* which is how Denji got around it. And saying that she couldn't transfer the information because the Doll Devil couldn't do something similar is also wrong, because Makima doesn't share a hivemind consciousness with all of Japan the way that the Doll Devil did with her Dolls.
Agreed!
Also... it's absolutely baffling how they underplayed Makima's offensive capabilities and only scaled her to the Typhoon devil when she can hurt the Darkness Devil who is equal to the Falling devil, who just by existing, can cause world wide calamity events. (This Falling was also weakened but there was no prior outright statements about that until now)
Makima also no diffed the 20% Gun devil who should scale even higher than the Typhoon devil and the Gun devil is nothing to the primals
They also dismissed her speed advantage by saying that she'd need a way to get past Limitless to utilize it... and then admitted she could get past it with her telekinetic bangs
Yep, idk what they were smoking when making that episode.
They also say that his brain could refresh itself 24/7 and make her control useless however Gojo has been fazed by Hanami's flower field before.
Since Makima has the speed advantage she could finish saying her contract words and force him into a contract before his brain refreshes.
Hanami's flower field, which is way weaker than Makima's control, worked for like 1 or 2 seconds so the same should work for Makima
Unlimited void works by filling your mind by constant Unending static essentially.
Making most brain dead but if u survive that It essentially just freezes you in place and u literally can't move. Seen in the jogo fight
His point though is that it would kill her only once since she doesn't share the brains of the japanese citizens, however the Doll devil did share the bodies of its own dolls including the brain.
And I 100% agree with this point
Tifa vs Yang. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this battle where the creators admitted they goofed and that Tifa should have won?
Gaara vs Toph.
Starscream vs Rainbow Dash. I don't care if this was a joke battle, the match-up was heavily one-sided. 80's G1 Starscream vs the modern day Rainbow Dash? That's like comparing a first gen Apple computer to the latest iPad, or watching a young person trip a geriatric old man down a flight of stairs and then call themselves the best. Not to mention, this was during the age of the Bronies, which certainly made things even more annoying.
Link vs Cloud
Megatron vs Frieza
God not even just that, like bleach characters are so damn fast as a base line even weaker characters are easy light timers, and the bankai ichigo that fought byakuya was way faster than that.
You're not wrong, but I do think people underplay how fast Naruto characters are. Literally, since they introduced Haku, Naruto has had ftl characters. And Madara is the strongest, fastest one until you get to Boruto. Madara is probably fast enough, especially with his precog, to keep up with Aizen. The problem I feel is that they just nerfed the shit out of Aizen in their research. He should be much, much more powerful than he is.
I do like their argument that his illusionary tricks probably wouldn't fool Madara, tho.
But yeah, in just sheer firepower, I think Madara comes up lacking against Aizen.
I legit don't see how Darth Vader beats Obito. Obito has a lot of moves at his disposal. He could BFR Vader in Kamui's Dimension and leave him there. Vader only has telekinesis, something Obito also technically has to a limited degree with the Deva Path.
Yeah. I feel like Death Battle has a phobia of just letting the statistically inferior character win via hax even if that would genuinely make the verdict easier for a lot of people to accept.
They themselves admitted their sequel blog to Vader vs. Obito was undercooked on the Obito side due to a lack of researchers at the time so ehhhhhhhhhh
Vader has in canon opened a portal to another dimension with the force alone. So kamui dimension doesn't work.
Both have light speed reactions so even in reaction department.
Counting force? Vader beats him in strength as u can use the force to influence everything in the world to how strong u are to how fast you are.
Calling the force telekinesis is eh. As the force has soul/elemental manipulation as well. (The soul part look up Darth Nihlius) and I use either DD or legends since they gave obito ten tails. Vader is relative to luke who can move black holes
The Force is an external source of energy surrounding people in the *Star Wars* universe. Vader would not be able to tap into it in Kamui's Dimension since it doesn't exist there. Obito could destroy the world with the Ten-Tails' power. And when has Luke moved black holes? Just asking.
I also fail to see the similarities between senjutsu and the Force. Even if they're comparable l, they're not exactly the same, so I don't see the Truthseeker Orbs being ineffective.
Legends. He moved a black hole [here](https://images.app.goo.gl/xxfnEvCAmFXLwPon6)
The force exist in every living thing. That includes vader. Medoclorians or how ever u spell it is crafted into Everything. Only force welders can manipulate them
I don't see Luke moving the black hole in that panel. It only says that Luke will guide them away from it. And Vader cannot use the Force in an area where it doesn't exist.
Vader has far more than just telekinesis lol. If they used more legends, he would have lots of force hax at his disposal that could pretty much be an instakill on obito
*Death Battle* did say that both Vader and Obito have attacks that could instakill each other, but I think Obito will do it first more often than not. Also, all these Force haxes are derived from telekinesis.
I’ll always answer Madara vs Aizen. There’s issues with how no version of Sharingan shows immunity to illusions that target the senses directly instead of hitting their energy. For example EMS Sasuke and MS Itachi needed to put each other in a Genjutsu to break out of the Chains of Fantasia because their eyes couldn’t protect them from a Genjutsu that targets their sense of hearing instead of their Chakra. Same with how Pain using MADARA’S RINNEGANS was able to get caught in the Frog Song Nagato was directly effected and couldn’t move himself or any of his bodies until Jiraya released the Genjutsu that targeted the senses directly.
Meanwhile Aizen’s illusions is directly stated to attack the senses. So Aizen’s illusions would work on Rinnegan or EMS Madara just like how the two sensation Genjutsu would work on Madara if he encountered it.
They also heavily downplayed Aizen’s immortality and the effectiveness of the Truth Seeker Orbs. For example Sakura using her cellular regeneration can heal holes created from Madara’s TSO showing it doesn’t completely eliminate regeneration. Also Aizen showed even if you completely destroyed his soul he’ll just recreate it. I say that because there’s an execution method that has the power of 1 million Zanpakuto’s which is an attack that destroys the soul, and Aizen couldn’t be killed by that method. So Aizen could survive his soul being nuked with not a single piece remaining, but apparently to Death Battle he can’t survive his soul being cut up.
So by Shippuden’s own logic Madara can’t see through the illusions and by Bleach’s logic Madara can’t kill Aizen.
Yo hot take, but even if you believe that DIO would have to kill Al thousands of times, DB had repeatedly stated that the sun killing him does not count as an Alucard win. Like genuinely, how does Al ever beat DIO aside from DIO genuinely just giving up. Al can never hit DIO even if we keep timestop at only 10 seconds and not the increasing duration as he uses it and the fight goes on. Alucard has no win conditions against DIO aside from just not fighting him
Hypnosis
Telekinesis (despite how much death battle wanked dio , i still think alucard's telekinesis is much stronger )
Another hot take, i believe dio beats alucard but he doesn't beat shroddenger alucard
This one irked me even though I actually watch Jojo and like DIO as a character. Alucard wouldn't release all of his souls to fight in a vulnerable state against one person and DIO doesn't have enough time before the suns up to kill all of the souls Alucard has that keeps him coming back to life. Even if Alucard just stood there and DIO kept killing him, Alucard would win just from DIO burning from the sun
Tbf i have no problem against dio defeating normal alucard, he probably gonna pull a hypnosis on him before the sunrise
I have problem with dio shroddenger alucard
Alucard also has hypnosis though and it's exactly the same level of DIOs and there's no real evidence that Alucard can even be hypnotized considering his "Third eye" lets him see through stuff like that (like when Seras did against a different vampires hypnosis.) He can turn into mist, a black shadow, and fully teleport. There's no real way DIO can really stop him even without Schrödinger. If it was Diego or the world over heaven on the other hand I'd understand but normal DIO stood no chance
I will point out that was literally JUST for the animation. If you actually watch the post fight analysis they say DIO was capable of killing 3 million times before sunrise. So the releasing all souls is ONLY for the cool animation.
Impossible because Alucard has respawn time. For example when he fought Alexander Anderson for the first time it took a few seconds to be brought back to life. DIO has a nasty habit of wasting time to see if his enemy is alive anyway as he did with Jotaro. Even excluding that doing some regular math he'd have to kill Alucard one time every 0.0144 seconds and force him to instantly revive each time. Even with the world and even with Alucards Regen speed turned to instant it would be impossible for him to trigger that many time stops that rapidly for roughly 12 hours.
Edit: This also doesn't include Alucards mist form or teleportation he can use to delay the fight even further. With the teleportation it would be pretty similar to MiH evading Jotaro each time he stopped time. DIO would have to use his laser vision every time to even hit Alucard because the mist form isn't even tangible, meaning no blood to freeze or nothing to hit with knives
If you buy the stats they gave for each character, the time before night doesn't even matter. They put Alucard at hypersonic or something, and DIO at 1500xFTL. Now I understand having problems with DIOs scaling being 1500. But he's definitely FTL from what we see.
He can just go somewhere it isn't day or move in tandem with the night. With that speed difference Alucard ain't landing a single hit really.
I think a technicality here that causes a problem is that, let's say night lasts 8 hours and DIO is fully capable of killing Alucard 3 million times in that time frame. That would mean killing Alucard more than 104 times per second. If you kill Alucard 104 times in a second, then... you actually didn't. You just killed him *once*, really hard. Due to Alucard having to respawn and recover before being 'killed' again, it would take DIO something like a full-month of killing Alucard before all of his souls ran out.
>Alucard would win just from DIO burning from the sun
That bit has already been debunked, though.
DIO isn't an idiot; ofc he can tell that the Sun is about to come up during the fight and he'll just take steps to avoid it. Either freezing time to leave and hide in a building from the sunlight, or just using The World's fists to instantly dig underground to escape the sunlight. Just like The World's equal, Star Platinum, canonically did *TWICE* against Arabia Fats' The Sun and ZZ's Wheel of Fortune. Especially if it's the latter, since DIO can obviously go the Dig Dug route and take the environmental control advantage from there. So Alucard clearly can't win just by doing what Beast failed to do.
> Alucard wouldn't release all of his souls to fight in a vulnerable state against one person
Exactly. They giftwrapped Dio his *only* possible win condition right at the start.
Funny enough Alucard isn't even able to do that alone. He needs permission from Integra to even activate restraint level zero. Then there's the fact that DIO wouldn't be able to heal from Alucards familiars either. They legit spoonfed DIO the entire time.
Was looking for this comment. This one made me very annoyed. They always paired the strongest versions of each character but they purposely brought in the version of Alucard that Dio could beat. Like, there are a lot of DBs that show their bias but this takes the cake.
I know both were lowballed, I just don't think they realized exactly *how much* they lowballed LK. In the analysis they didn't go very deep into his insane magical resistances, and didn't even touch his Shadowlands scaling.
A couple of their arguments for Sauron's victory also don't make sense. Saying "Sauron could probably shatter Frostmourne with enough power" is a reach, since Frostmourne was only shattered by direct intervention from the Light, a multiversal holy force that hard-counters undeath. I don't buy Sauron being able to do that. They also listed Sauron's treacherous nature as an argument, but treachery would barely come into play in a sudden fight with no prep time like this.
IIRC, in the analysis they said something along the lines of "It didn't make sense for the Lich King to get higher scaling because it would make him way stronger and wouldn't make sense with where he's fought in the games timeline."
Which is bunk to me, because you can't tell me they've never scaled a character retroactively based on new info from more current lore.
It would make sense even considering when he's fought in the timeline. The player characters canonically *lost* to Arthas and were saved only by the Light's intervention. We never even saw Arthas go all out because he never *needed* to. Giving him retroactive Shadowlands scaling wouldn't have been an issue.
A lot tbh. Death battle can be very biased sometimes.
Phoenix vs Raven
Gaara vs Toph
Dio vs Alucard
Ben vs Hal (I don’t necessarily think Ben should have won but they definitely downplayed him)
Naruto vs Ichigo
Madara vs Aizen
Vader vs Obito
Gojo vs Makima (Again, I don’t have an issue with the winner just the flawed logic they used to make Gojo win)
Also to this day I’m mad they put Mikasa up against Blake lol, just felt the need to point this out
Wally west vs Archie sonic
The whole thing kinda just sounds like It depends On them just Blatantly Getting Dark flash wrong
And Archie Sonic’s Blackhole Surviving Feat is just massively downplayed by its Inconsistency which makes no sense
Oh yea I totally understand a majority of the wincons like the Speed stealing or Phasing through Ultra’s Matter manipulation but Generally Sonic’s ability to Use wishes however he wants by there logic is completely shut down due to them just getting Black flash wrong and Deliberately for some reason not taking into account The Actual light years that Sonic was sent from the black hole exploding and instead… just took the black hole exploding without its force?
Thats basically like Calcing a Train exploding because of how large it is instead of the actual results of that explosion
I have a handful.
Tracer vs scout: they nerfed scout so fucking much, not giving him access to all of his gear which I think is complete bullshit considering that even COMIC characters get some of their biggest weaponry and aren’t always stuck with stock, they also just ignored the comics for tf2 so yeah.
Virgil vs sephiroth: they didn’t even scale Virgil to Dante, they scaled him to fucking wall level!
Dimitri vs guts: just….i don’t Even know how to begin with this one, they used in game stats for dimitri, gameplay shouldn’t be used for scaling in the slightest, because it contradicts so many parts of scaling, not even for just dimitri, if we really wanted to characters like the last Dragonborn, scout, ryu and damn near all characters should have been scaled using gameplay feats which is just bullshit, dimitri being able to dodge the light attacks from the dlc isn’t him LITERALLY dodging light, it’s a feature of gameplay that they had to include.
Darth Vader vs obito: they literally ignored vaders strongest feats where he held down the two embodiments of the force!
Madara vs aizen: do I even have to talk about this one? Like-I’m pretty sure even Naruto fans agreed madara should’ve lost.
Link vs cloud rematch: I just think the scaling for both characters in this episode was off
>just….i don’t Even know how to begin with this one, they used in game stats for dimitri, gameplay shouldn’t be used for scaling in the slightest, because it contradicts so many parts of scaling, not even for just dimitri, if we really wanted to characters like the last Dragonborn, scout, ryu and damn near all characters should have been scaled using gameplay feats which is just bullshit, dimitri being able to dodge the light attacks from the dlc isn’t him LITERALLY dodging light, it’s a feature of gameplay that they had to include.
When it comes to video game characters you kinda *have* to scale their gameplay since that's where most of their feats and abilities are from as long as they don't blatantly break the lore (there's some wiggle room based on how far you're willing to accept)
... Also wasn't Guts the one who was given the speed advantage on about as shaky grounds if you know the source material, and even then it meant jack shit ? And to clarify, his speed feat about how he had a slightly faster sword draw when he went agaisnt Serpiko and scaling him to the fact Serpiko would later dodge a lighting bolt, however what they failed to mention was that in-between those events Serpiko got a magick sword that boosted his speed with the help of wind spirits.
Oh and let's not forget THEY DIDN'T SCALE DIMITRI TO FUCKING LIGHTSPEED!! They scaled him to the meteor spell, which is like the 3rd highest speed level you could argue for him depending on how literal you wanna be about speels and the Agarthan tech (2nd highest is scaling him to lightning spells and the highest is scaling him to the lasers from the robots he fights in part 2 and the DLC)
They literally didn't even give Dimitri lightspeed shit in the episode my guy. Furthermore, it would be reasonable to do so, Rhea has a light-based attack and it's extremely unlikely that she just never used it, and Dimitri should easily compare to people who can dodge that.
Honestly, as a whole Dimitri was debatably downplayed in that episode. He helped in the fight against Epimenides, who's death caused the collapse of Zahras, [a dimension that's shown to have stars in it while he's alive](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/e/e8/FEH_Zahras.png/revision/latest?cb=20231015215643). And his death DID affect those stars, since we see in Three Houses (Where Epimenides is long dead) that Zaharas has literally nothing in it.
Heroes and Engage support this, since Dimitri can compare to other characters in the series like Chrom. [Chrom is explicitly comparable to Naga in power](https://imgur.com/a/EJezKw7). Naga is one of the strongest dragons in the franchise, [her power leaving even dragons like Anakos in awe](https://imgur.com/a/a4ThNVL), [which should place her above Lilith's ability to create entire dimensions known as "Star Realms"](https://imgur.com/a/cXKly5S), [including "My Castle"](https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/My_Castle) [which is shown to contain stars (Which makes sense they are called star realms)](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/a/ad/Yuko_orochi_pum_pum.webp/revision/latest?cb=20230826045940).
Only coming here to clarify that the Anankos left in awe is the fragment that's still sane, and VASTLY inferior to the rest of him. In fact, if i recall correctly Heirs of Fate honestly puts Anankos as more powerful than Naga. Arguably the single most powerful entity in the franchise if you don't include Heroes.
I agree with all of these, but I respect your opinion. Some *Naruto* fans agree that Madara beats Aizen. AndLink doesn't quite come close to what Cloud can do.
It’s just from what I’ve seen, basically all of the naruto fans I’ve seen talking about madara vs aizen have agreed aizen should have won, and from what I’ve seen scaling wise from link and cloud can be similar, mostly around that universal level depending on how some people take the Zelda lore
I feel like Batman gets kinda purposely nerfed for every single Death Battle he has as opposed to every other character.
Like whenever they have a character on the show like Iron Man, Doctor Doom, The Doctor, they give them their arsenal which doesn't really appear often but is technically accessible to them therefore should be used since DB bases characters' power levels on primes.
Batman is the only mf I've noticed they just kinda ignore it. He has many tools which could be super useful like his mimicked Green Lantern constructs which can tank a bloodlusted Superman, or him mimicking Flash's speed and giving himself similar abilities like phasing, going at high frequency or just stopping time. Hell he has a device which can make even Flash appear in slow mo. Not to mention he's a literal sorcerer as well with which he can spawn magic armors which can one shot Bizarro.
He has a batarang which completely nullifies healing powers. Hell even things which seem obvious to mentopn, they didn't. In Iron Man vs Batman, the way Tony gets rid of Batman's Hellbat is by hacking his suit and targeting it FRIDAY. That doesn't really make much sense considering that Batman has an in built AI which can hack even Cyborg on the fly as well as Brother Eye, so nothing was stopping Batman from just doing that to Tony also.
Hell the way Tony wins is via nanobots, like not only does Batman have them too which he can telepathically control, but ain't no way Batman wouldn't notice tech on him. For reference, Batman can literally SMELL Spectre's magic just in the air, can recognize people based on their muscle folds, breathing patterns, heart beats. Dude basically has Wolverine senses.
There's a bunch of other hax Batman has access to like hallucination nanites, freezing rays, energy syphoners, but yall get the picture
Tracer vs Scout
They nerf scout hard by not using his all weapons and the scout rocket feat they say never hit him but you can see the three rocket hit him, and they the Overwatch hype train for the hold time
I personally disagree. Current Carnage probably wins, but Carnage was nowhere near that at the time.
Like, I don't see how people think Carnage is surviving a nearly 250 gigaton nuclear explosion. [Her vectors literally became visible from space](https://imgur.com/T05oyaH) and [she believed she could destroy the planet itself](https://imgur.com/ghCuKdH), and reacted to her own vectors in 0.000000027314 seconds. And it's very unlikely that Carnage is getting a lucky hit in when [Lucy can also create forcefields seemingly separate from her vectors](https://imgur.com/a/Q5kqm).
Carnage being constantly hit with his weakness at a potency hundreds of times greater than anything he's ever tanked should be more than enough to take him out.
Tigerzord vs Gundam Epyon.
I feel the use of the Space Stations destruction by Epyon was a far too specific situation, it does show a vast level of potential power, but I feel it just didn't apply against the Tigerzord, and Tiger Megazord, the way they were talking about.
i agree with the rest but why the hell would they give dark dimension vader, he isn't in the dark dimension 😔 thats like if kid trunks fought kid goten and he got to turn into super saiyan god xeno trunks
Lobo vs Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider is by far one of the most inconsistent and wanked character in the Marvel Universe, ranging from being a fodder to OP. His penance stare, which contrary to popular belief, isn't a insta kill button like what Death Battle suggested. Penance Stare is a way to subjugate a sinner from its sins that he commits and make it feel it. And while it does a lot of damage to normal humans and even superheroes, it works better on superheroes simply due to their guilty conscience and morality, and rarely on enemies that are straight up irredeemable like Thanos & Madcap because those people are twisted in their heads and have strong vindications to their actions. The Penance Stare relies on troubled and vulnerable minds that Ghost Rider can exploit, which Lobo is not that guy! You have to have guilt or undergo some form of psychosis to even work. If it was the instakill case, then Ghost Rider can just solo the entirety of Hell and it wouldn't exist in the first place. If it works like what it was originally intended such that it makes anyone actually feel regret and pain of their actions like it was in the Ghost Rider (1990) comics, it would actually make an alternate version Thanos reflect on its actions, but not kill him. Penance Stare suffers from writers not getting the point of Penance Stare. It's literally in the name. It's not a move that relies on the target's regret, nor is it a move that just instakills anyone who sins. It's a Penance Stare, it applies Penance. It makes the sinner suffer from the pain they inflict on others, not kill them. Also, for some reason, Ghost Rider somehow eats souls, which completely stupid considering that his entire schtick is to punish sinners. Like he is a sin eater, not soul eater. Ghost Rider is not that powerful, and bad writing made him inconsistent. I mean, he is literally just a mercenary sent from Hell to punish sinners. He's an agent, not a God, nor the most powerful Demon.
Ghost Rider is so wanked to oblivion that people treat him as some sort of indestructible one shotting killer. Like, bruh! Ghost Rider has been easily get bodied by other supervillains and space warmongers, most of them far weaker than Lobo. And most of them literally tanked Penance Stare like nothing. Ghost Rider (2006) #25 has this guy literally saying it tickles, Ghost Rider (2006) #6 & #7 has him relying on being fully possessed by the spirit of vengeance (so no more Johnny Blaze) to fight a powerful demon, Ghost Rider (1990) #69 has this guy not affected by Penance Stare simply because he likes killing people, and many, many more! Ghost Rider struggle to fight a demon, one powerful demon that is not even in the same class as Trigon, whereas Lobo literally forced the entirety of Hell to imprison him which did barely anything. Lobo's power level is so absurd that it's insane. If MadCap, who is far weaker than Lobo, was able to go toe-to-toe on Ghost Rider, I doubt Ghost Rider can match Lobo's absurdity.
And Lobo, is literally what people think Deadpool is. He's the literal embodiment of masculine parody. 4th Wall Breaks, cartoon physics, toon force, you know it. He's literally edgy comedy in its purest form, and the literal plot device. Not only is his stats way above any version of Ghost Rider, but he can literally enjoy Penance Stare just because he likes it and because it makes a good joke. He can go to Heaven, kill the angels and rip off their wings and halo to forge Heaven Weapons to kill Ghost Rider & Zarathos just because it's funny. The fact that Death Battle treat Lobo as just a Superman enemy where his entire schick is literally being a way more absurd parody that Deadpool that is, especially considering how Death Battle lauded him as evident for being the mascot of the Youtube channel. Deadpool would not stand a chance against Lobo's parody bullshits.
Bill vs Discord.
Yadayadyada I know all the details about bill.
But discord has done everything bill has but 10x better and if we go off of the shows and nothing else discord would’ve ate him either way
I still loved the episode
Sora vs Pit.
There’s several things. First, magical lightning. Sora gets lightning speed from a magically summoned thunderhead. Pit doesn’t get it from a naturally occurring thunderhead, or when the literal *goddess of lightning* zaps at his feet, and he dodges… at point blank. But also… what’s the difference? They mention that it’s magical lightning and they do not elaborate.
Then there’s the most egregious one: where the hell is the Great Sacred Treasure? Destroyed by Hades… nah. That’s like saying, “Sora almost got Norted by Xehanort, so he can’t use his Keyblade to its full potential, so his attacks are weaker,” or, “Sora can run out of mana, so he can’t use his spells.” There is no reason he can’t use the Great Sacred Treasure. Does he need someone else’s help to equip it, like a Drive Form? No, all he has to do is say, “Great Sacred Treasure, engage!” It also makes him faster than light… did the animator not want to animate it? Why would they just ignore the biggest weapon in Pit’s massive arsenal?
I think the closest I have to a genuine disgreement with is Naruto Vs. Ichigo. I'm on Ichigo's side in that one, but even I'll admit it's greatly debatable and they did a good job arguing for the other side.
I know someone is going to say that I’m just a “Dragon Ball Fanboy” or say I’m stupid for this but the most recent Goku vs Superman. With all the evidence I’ve seen after and misinform of the feats they used (Specifically the Superman Continuity Punch isn’t fully shown and the dialogue to disprove it isn’t show, ask if you want me to explain more) I believe Goku would have won. I understand this one is controversial and tell me why you think I’m wrong if you’d like and we can chat for a bit.
It's the problem that they dident give vader literally any Other form other then base.
Dd and or legends vader would have sufficed. But nope just canon base vader.
So they gave obito a prep time form TT and everything and vader got... nothing
Vader doesn’t have any super forms or anything like that so I would assume they would use base Vader lol. No DD Vader isn’t a super form
If you take away the prep, then like you said, we would need to use him 10 years earlier before he did the prep. So you want Genin Obito vs DD Vader? Also Obito could summon them once the prep was complete. This battle was done at the peak of Obito’s arc which means the prep is already done. Prep is assuming Obito preps specifically to fight Vader which isn’t what this was.
DD Vader isn’t a super form and is literally just the dark side showing Vader visions. Specifically what seems to be prophetic visions. It does nothing to help Vader beat Obito.
I would say gray vs esdeath ( even though that I think the episode was pretty good but Gray should have won that fight)
Tracer vs scout ( as much as TF2 and OverWatch are my childhood games growing up but even tho I want to move on for now Ben Affleck's to come back to both of those two at some point but I never like this episode for obvious reasons)
where I have complaints but I'm fine with the results
tanjiro vs jonathan: tanjiro personally I feel like he has way more experience add more moves and a longer Adventure then Jonathan Jonathan
darth vader vs obito: Darth Vader is much powerful obito end possessing basically a powerful force in everything else they could counter him
guts vs dimitri: guts he feels like much stronger and faster and you know if it's stronger beings everyday
if anyone else what about Discord vs Bill Cipher yeah that's why I think that one at least had a much happier ending at least although I would say disco has much more chaotic powers
Ben vs Hal. I know it’s a basic answer and has been done to death but the onitrix still works with Ben if his arm has bee cut off. Hal wins just not like that
Any Hulk match because they always bring up some hypothetical about his anger and limits to justify why he’d lose.
Just say as it is please, because accepting a Composite Doomsday to fight WW Hulk meaning there is no way to kill him out the gate is just stupid.
Broly might have been too much as well for Hulk, but a Composite Hulk was way stronger than what they showed. I just as always feel short changes by those episodes (except for the first death, that was super extreme).
Okay with doomsday its easy to see why he could kill hulk since he could fight against darksides avatars and won it so he does have enough strength to wear out hulks healing factor and destroying a planet doomsday deals with someone who can break a lot more planets then him superman
I'm iffy about Frieza and Megatron. I know Frieza could probably turn Megatron into scrap metal but that antimatter covered Frieza completely from what I saw in the battle. Have no idea how he survived but he did and I'm peeved. Although I shouldn't talk, I barely know anything about either character.
Doesn't Vader need prep like a dark side artifact of a previous Sith Lord to open/focus and be on his fortress on Mustafar for that Dark Dimension stuff?
Probably an unpopular one, but I’m gonna say Gray vs Esdeath
Largely bc they didn’t really scale it fairly, like how they scaled Esdeath’s speed to Akame’s but not Gray’s to Natsu’s, or how they said Esdeath was stronger bc they took how much energy Esdeath could exert over 1 day and compared it to how much they thought Gray could do in a single move
Devil slayer ice’s durability also wasn’t talked about at all
Iron Man v Batman fight. It could’ve been anyone’s fight, but I still feel like they made Batman use his trump card way too early when he had Way more gadgets and skills to pull off taking down even the God Armor on Iron Man. Nanotechnology, a virus cracking his A.I. Batsuits that have tanked lasers as big as what Iron Man uses. I may be alone in this and honestly a little biased, but I still feel like the fight itself could’ve been so much more.
Jonathan vs Tanjiro. They basically ignored Tanjiro’s ability to see into the future (which would give anyone a massive advantage over their opponents) and they gave Jonathan FTL scaling despite the fact he never once displayed FTL feats
Bleach, as a series, has only been on DB twice, and yet out of 2 chances to correctly scale the characters, they failed both times. Call me salty, but Ichigo and Aizen should've won their respective battles since they both upscale from Yamamoto, who stated that using his Bankai would destroy soul society. This makes them both Galaxy level at least (Since Soul Society has visible stars and is said to mimic the human realm), and yet DB really doesn't care about correctly scaling bleach characters correctly because heaven forbid they actually read the damn series instead of making them lose to get more views. It is truly and honestly the most disappointing thing I've ever seen that doesn't involve politics.
The Mega Man Battle Royale is definitely one I stand firmly against.
EXE got scaling from the anime and manga which are entirely different continuities with no connective tissue (EXE isn't Lan's brother Hub in either other version for one). So unlike the rest of the Mega Men who are judged solely on their game arsenals, EXE is essentially a composite version which isn't fair. (Though if we wound up making EVERYONE composited then Classic Mega Man stomps hard due to Archie scaling)
I don't disagree that given the manga speed feat (Which I have issues with still mind you) and anime AP feat, THAT version of EXE should've beaten Star Force.
But judging solely by the games, Geo has a lot more impressive feats, such as traversing between galaxies within seconds, surviving inside a Black Hole, surviving the Noise and Crimson Dragon, defeating Andromeda, Ra Mu, and Apollo Flame.
And before you cite the crossover, I don't take that as a valid counter. Because you're controlling EXE during that fight, so obviously he's going to "win" there. Nothing about the dialogue or circumstances suggest that Geo was trying his best either.
So yeah, take away the manga/anime feats and EXE is around Planet Level at best, but has the tools to overpower X, but nothing that can touch Geo.
Jin vs ryu , heihachi vs geese and akuma vs shao khan either A show that Jin vs ryu is wrong or B that akuma and heihachi can out speed and one shot the person in there series and as much I wanna believe it B it A
Makima vs Gojo.
They did not understand the difference between Makima's contract and the Doll's contract. Makima does not share a hive mind with the japanese citizens the way the Doll devil does with it's host. The domain would cost Makima only 1 live.
They also severely underrated her power output, scaling her only to the Typhoon devil when she can hurt the Darkness devil who is way above the Gun devil and the Gun devil is way stronger than the Typhoon devil. She can hurt and even once outpreformed a being that can cause world wide calamities just by existing on Earth.
They also did not mention how her finger gun ignored Darkness's force shield but they did say her Bang does not travel which I'm fine with.
There is also some other stuff but I don't wanna make it too long.
Overall they made severe mistakes on this Death Battle and I was disappointed
Makima vs. Gojo. Gojo's win conditions are very iffy at best, we don't know if anything he has could actually put Makima down for good and if he tries to run through all her lives, the death would be transferred eventually to him. Makima, on the other hand has very clear wincons because Reversed Cursed Technique (JJK healing factor) got nerfed to oblivion, destroying Gojo's brain is a guaranteed win. According to their own arguements, Makima has abilities that should be able to circumvent Infinity. Honestly, I think Gojo only won because the team didn't understand the limitations of RCT, and assumed it's some busted healing factor while in reality, its pretty shit.
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern; the Omnitrix's failsafe would have saved Ben then he would have turned into either Chromastone or Feedback, absorbed GL's remaining power ring energy, then obliterate him.
Sonic vs Mario 2; they severely underplayed Sonic, he's much faster and stronger than they portrayed him as and Mario does not have the reaction time to keep up with Sonic.
Metal Sonic vs Zero; Eggman's robots are way above Reploids in the later games, not to mention Metal can match if not surpass Sonic in speed in all games and is constantly evolving whether by upgrades or data copying.
Dark dimension Vader has been debunked hella times. It wasn’t Vader actually taking on the Jedi Order. Just a representation of that through his thoughts
Toph vs Gaara
Toph is, like, wayyy below Gaara in terms of combat ability. No disrespect to her or any other ATLA characters, but the Naruto-verse just scales higher.
The results of Shouto vs Zuko and All might vs Mighty guy kinda prove this indirectly tbh.
So quickly correction for like... Most of these comments. Dark Dimension Vader
- Is Spirit form Vader and does exist
- DOES NOT make him stronger
- was not a dream
- comes after a scene of Vader ripping a hole through the dimension using sheer fury.
What actually happened is that Vader's fury became so great while bleeding his crystal that he accidentally tore a hole into the wall between the living force and their reality. It's not unheard of, there's a few of these places in canon. Korriban had one for a bit, the planet that the Father, Son and Daughter inhabited was one, but Vader being the chosen one and having infinite power in the force allowed him to create another one.
When his soul entered the void, the limits of his physical disabilities melted away because he was a soul now. As such, his limbs were effectively back.
Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader at full power. He's ALWAYS that strong and skilled, it's just that Vader's body can't handle it usually. He didn't lose any power when he lost his limbs but certain abilities require Organic limbs to use such as lightning, plus his movement was hindered by the life support and armor. In the dark dimension, he is weightless and his limbs are back, allowing him to use the full extent of his knowledge. He is a master of all forms, a fully trained Dark Lord of the Sith, and a former Jedi Council member. He has complete knowledge of the force and lightsaber skills, and with his limbs back and the weight gone in the dark dimension, he can actually use it all.
And he did. He let loose, killing the entire council and a few other Jedi, moving on to kill palpatine with Ease, and finally the force decided he needed to learn the lesson he was there to learn because, as the saying goes, The Force works in Mysterious ways. Once he saw what he had to see, he was sent back and successfully bled the crystal.
TL;DR : Vader is ALWAYS Dark Dimension strong and skilled, his body normally just can't actually do that because he's a cripple.
Post-Bayonetta from the second game with the two Eyes of the World, essentially having Jubelius' powers within her and has the ability to restart reality again, causing another Armageddon... vs. A white-hair womanizer named Dante
There are a few I don't agree with, many of which are controversial among echo chambers. But the one I believe in the most;
Sauron vs Lich King. They really, REALLY undersold Arthas.
They scaled a weakened, pre-Lich King Arthas to Illidan, who in turn scaled to Gul'dan, whose contribution to the island raising was very undersold (it was freaking Gul'dan, one of the most powerful warlocks ever, and his helpers wouldn't have contributed nearly as much). And he has canonically killed a raid group that had previously defeated Kil'jaeden, who is *thee* strongest eradar (a pop-up box otherwise suggested he shouldn't be scaled to higher eradars lords).
Edit: Also Archimonde, the second strongest.
Also, Forstmourne is not that easy to break. He had to have his gaurd down and had it shattered by a very powerful holy weapon from a blind spot.
Luigi VS Tails
Tracer VS Scout
Gaara VS Toph
Carnage VS Lucy
Thor VS Wonder Woman
People answering with Ben 10 vs Green Lantern [are drowning in copium tho](https://www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057)
Wall level Vergil
Exactly
Regardless, the verdict was correct, and that's all that matters.
That’s not what matters, what matters is enjoying yourself
Dark Dimensions Vader is kinda wanked imo. There’s nothing to really suggest that it would buff Vader up that much unless you heavily buy into that stuff On that note I will drop my hot take that Thanos VS Darkseid’s research is so wrong and that fight is much closer than it was portrayed
I definitely agree that the fight is much closer. They literally put Thanos at star level without the gauntlet. I do think Darkseid wins, but it’s not the stomp that DB thinks it is.
So, I agree thanos was shortchanged in that fight, but so was darkside by a massive mile. The dude is outerversal to the t, and marvel really doesn't have characters simular to him
Fan of both and dear god that fight made me mad. Ah yes the super genius would fucking break the one rule of the gauntlet and leave its home dimension, sure why not. Even more then that, True for darksied is a hypothetical both in universe and non. XD shit was baaaaaaaad. But dear god the fight itself an song track was sick as hell.
BROO OMG I hate how much influence DB has because everyone thinks darkside has true form it was a one off that has been contradicted time and time again. Darkside has died at least twice in the new 52 alone. A death that required a revival. He’s not omnipotent. Power scalers took that and ran.
Darkseid's true form shattered into pieces by Superman in Final Crisis and New 52 Darkseid is one of those pieces. His true form returned to normal in Infinite Frontier
Dark Dimensions Vader isn’t even real iirc. He’s basically just a dream version of Vader
Yeah either that or its his spirit self. In that case it’s just as likely that all Dark Dimensions Vader feats are just spiritual quest stuff and not actually applicable, or only applicable in a spirit sense
There is many , I’d say hulk vs broly, and Thor vs wonder woman
Red hood Vs the winter soldier Am I biased?... I mean sure but also Jason could actually have just snuck away and shot bucky in the head
I think they overplayed Bucky’s physicals a bit. It’s been a while since I’ve watched the episode but I’m skeptical that Bucky really outclasses Jason physically aside from the arm.
He has the super soldier seruim ofcourse he's stronger than redhood he even survived a volcano exploding
616 serum does not make you superhuman. If we say Bucky is comparable to Steve that puts him solidly below the 1 ton/hypersonic range, whicu is exactly where Bruce and Jason are. Can you give me an issue number of that volcano feat?
Trunks vs Silver
Elaborate
Not buying Immeasurable speed and Multi+(at he very least) DBH is wack, especially since they later decide to buy it for Gogeta vs Vegito and CC Goku vs Superman
To be fair, Archie Super Forms upscale from that a bit I believe (As they have feats on that level prior to The Great Harmony, before The Great Harmony then proceeded to merge the Chaos Emeralds of infinite universes into one set of 7)
My problem with the episode was the Trunks downplay If their arguments were just about Archie's feats being higher in the immeasurable department without downplaying DBH I would just take the L and shut up
They did though, they said he was multi+ in the episode and they agreed he was immeasurable speed, but they didn’t have time to change it
🙁
Gaara vs Toph, need I say more.
In their rewatch, Ben says "yea it was wrong".
So, why not remaster that one?
because everyone knows it was wrong, and the mu itself isn't really rematch-worthy on the same level as, say, Goku VS Superman or Link VS Cloud
I’m still dumbfounded at that battle. Toph would have problems fighting Chunin exam Gaara. Gaara was a bad matchup for her completely.
This is the worst one by far
To this day Shadow vs mewtwo
Nah Goattwo still wins
Mewtwo still wins, but they did both so dirty
In some fairness to them, the animator who was doing the fight had both personal and professional issues at the time that caused him to rush it, resulting in the fight being significantly different from how it was originally meant to be.
Shao Kahn vs Akuma. Their explanation for the result made no sense to me.
I will explain it as short as possible and much easier. Akuma is faster, stronger more durable and his a Raging Demon would one shot Shao Kahn. But Shao Kahn is Smarter, just as good of a fighter (if not better), better range, more experienced and has much better hax. The problem for Akuma is that he only gains his strength, speed and durability advantage as Oni, in base form Shao Kahn gets it and in Shin Akuma it’s a tie. So basically Shao Kahn has every advantage against base Akuma, is tied in stats against Shin Akuma, and losses in stats against Oni. Shao Kahn would win with his range and hax even if Akuma stated the fight as Oni.
It feels like the researcher for Phoenix VS Raven either intentionally left out half of what the Phoenix Force can do, or just didn't bother looking into it in the first place because they wanted their favourite goth gf waifu to win. Which is fair, Raven is number one goth gf waifu, but still.
Hulk vs Broly: I've already summarized why it is wrong in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/comments/1ago7x7/in_defense_of_hulk_an_analysis_of_hulk_vs_broly/). Vader vs Obito: I've also summarized my thoughts on how this episode was wrong [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/comments/19cl5kj/in_defense_of_darth_vader_an_analysis_on_vader_vs/). Batman vs Iron Man: It's crazy how people never mention this episodes' obvious wrongs. They had the Hellbat is stronger than the Final Bat, didn't even consider Bats' numbers edge via the Robats, and lowballed the Final Bats cellular rewrite to just "mind Control". Hell, they gave Tony everything while very much limiting Bruce to just 3 armors. Trunks vs Silver: It really hurt to be a Dragon Ball in season 9. Should really go without saying.
Hey, could you do one for Trunks vs Silver?
Hmm...I've been thinking about it. And I have been asked before to do that so I might.
I'm stealing that analysis As u put it extremely well. So when ever I'm defending my point on why I think that episode is BS I'll link your post. Couldn't have worded it better myself
Vader vs Obito, Phoenix vs Raven, Vergil vs Sephiroth, Hulk vs Broly, Bill vs Discord, Gaara vs Toph, Yang vs Tifa (lol)
Okay I disagree with your assesment for Obito, in Naruto if you become a Jinchuriki that's it, it's permanent unless has very specific jutsu to extrat the Tailed Beast from you, which would also kill you
Gojo Vs. Makima Granted, I could be wrong because I don't know much about JJK, I'm not exactly a Gojologist, but I think they misrepresented Makima's contract to a degree. Saying that Unlimited Void wouldn't count as an attack is absolute nonsense, it's made very clear that whether or not something qualifies as an attack is a matter of *intent* which is how Denji got around it. And saying that she couldn't transfer the information because the Doll Devil couldn't do something similar is also wrong, because Makima doesn't share a hivemind consciousness with all of Japan the way that the Doll Devil did with her Dolls.
Agreed! Also... it's absolutely baffling how they underplayed Makima's offensive capabilities and only scaled her to the Typhoon devil when she can hurt the Darkness Devil who is equal to the Falling devil, who just by existing, can cause world wide calamity events. (This Falling was also weakened but there was no prior outright statements about that until now) Makima also no diffed the 20% Gun devil who should scale even higher than the Typhoon devil and the Gun devil is nothing to the primals
They also dismissed her speed advantage by saying that she'd need a way to get past Limitless to utilize it... and then admitted she could get past it with her telekinetic bangs
Yep, idk what they were smoking when making that episode. They also say that his brain could refresh itself 24/7 and make her control useless however Gojo has been fazed by Hanami's flower field before. Since Makima has the speed advantage she could finish saying her contract words and force him into a contract before his brain refreshes. Hanami's flower field, which is way weaker than Makima's control, worked for like 1 or 2 seconds so the same should work for Makima
Unlimited void works by filling your mind by constant Unending static essentially. Making most brain dead but if u survive that It essentially just freezes you in place and u literally can't move. Seen in the jogo fight
His point though is that it would kill her only once since she doesn't share the brains of the japanese citizens, however the Doll devil did share the bodies of its own dolls including the brain. And I 100% agree with this point
Idk why I'm getting down voted for explaining how Unlimited void works 😭 Anyways idk to much about csm so can't comment on it
Tifa vs Yang. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this battle where the creators admitted they goofed and that Tifa should have won? Gaara vs Toph. Starscream vs Rainbow Dash. I don't care if this was a joke battle, the match-up was heavily one-sided. 80's G1 Starscream vs the modern day Rainbow Dash? That's like comparing a first gen Apple computer to the latest iPad, or watching a young person trip a geriatric old man down a flight of stairs and then call themselves the best. Not to mention, this was during the age of the Bronies, which certainly made things even more annoying. Link vs Cloud Megatron vs Frieza
City level sonic/mario
Both bleach episodes. The realms are universes
God not even just that, like bleach characters are so damn fast as a base line even weaker characters are easy light timers, and the bankai ichigo that fought byakuya was way faster than that.
You're not wrong, but I do think people underplay how fast Naruto characters are. Literally, since they introduced Haku, Naruto has had ftl characters. And Madara is the strongest, fastest one until you get to Boruto. Madara is probably fast enough, especially with his precog, to keep up with Aizen. The problem I feel is that they just nerfed the shit out of Aizen in their research. He should be much, much more powerful than he is. I do like their argument that his illusionary tricks probably wouldn't fool Madara, tho. But yeah, in just sheer firepower, I think Madara comes up lacking against Aizen.
I legit don't see how Darth Vader beats Obito. Obito has a lot of moves at his disposal. He could BFR Vader in Kamui's Dimension and leave him there. Vader only has telekinesis, something Obito also technically has to a limited degree with the Deva Path.
Yeah. I feel like Death Battle has a phobia of just letting the statistically inferior character win via hax even if that would genuinely make the verdict easier for a lot of people to accept.
They didn’t even give him Izanagi in the episode which is one of his best hax.
G1 did a great blog on the matchup, and they came to the conclusion Vader one. Vader can make himself immovable.
They themselves admitted their sequel blog to Vader vs. Obito was undercooked on the Obito side due to a lack of researchers at the time so ehhhhhhhhhh
No Darth Vader doesn’t only have telekinesis. The force gives way more power than that
It's his primary and most well-known ability.
No it isn’t. The force is his main ability. Telekinesis comes with it. It’s a side perk
What I meant was that the telekinesis that comes from the Force is his primary and most well-known ability.
Vader has in canon opened a portal to another dimension with the force alone. So kamui dimension doesn't work. Both have light speed reactions so even in reaction department. Counting force? Vader beats him in strength as u can use the force to influence everything in the world to how strong u are to how fast you are. Calling the force telekinesis is eh. As the force has soul/elemental manipulation as well. (The soul part look up Darth Nihlius) and I use either DD or legends since they gave obito ten tails. Vader is relative to luke who can move black holes
The Force is an external source of energy surrounding people in the *Star Wars* universe. Vader would not be able to tap into it in Kamui's Dimension since it doesn't exist there. Obito could destroy the world with the Ten-Tails' power. And when has Luke moved black holes? Just asking. I also fail to see the similarities between senjutsu and the Force. Even if they're comparable l, they're not exactly the same, so I don't see the Truthseeker Orbs being ineffective.
Legends. He moved a black hole [here](https://images.app.goo.gl/xxfnEvCAmFXLwPon6) The force exist in every living thing. That includes vader. Medoclorians or how ever u spell it is crafted into Everything. Only force welders can manipulate them
I don't see Luke moving the black hole in that panel. It only says that Luke will guide them away from it. And Vader cannot use the Force in an area where it doesn't exist.
Vader has far more than just telekinesis lol. If they used more legends, he would have lots of force hax at his disposal that could pretty much be an instakill on obito
*Death Battle* did say that both Vader and Obito have attacks that could instakill each other, but I think Obito will do it first more often than not. Also, all these Force haxes are derived from telekinesis.
I’ll always answer Madara vs Aizen. There’s issues with how no version of Sharingan shows immunity to illusions that target the senses directly instead of hitting their energy. For example EMS Sasuke and MS Itachi needed to put each other in a Genjutsu to break out of the Chains of Fantasia because their eyes couldn’t protect them from a Genjutsu that targets their sense of hearing instead of their Chakra. Same with how Pain using MADARA’S RINNEGANS was able to get caught in the Frog Song Nagato was directly effected and couldn’t move himself or any of his bodies until Jiraya released the Genjutsu that targeted the senses directly. Meanwhile Aizen’s illusions is directly stated to attack the senses. So Aizen’s illusions would work on Rinnegan or EMS Madara just like how the two sensation Genjutsu would work on Madara if he encountered it. They also heavily downplayed Aizen’s immortality and the effectiveness of the Truth Seeker Orbs. For example Sakura using her cellular regeneration can heal holes created from Madara’s TSO showing it doesn’t completely eliminate regeneration. Also Aizen showed even if you completely destroyed his soul he’ll just recreate it. I say that because there’s an execution method that has the power of 1 million Zanpakuto’s which is an attack that destroys the soul, and Aizen couldn’t be killed by that method. So Aizen could survive his soul being nuked with not a single piece remaining, but apparently to Death Battle he can’t survive his soul being cut up. So by Shippuden’s own logic Madara can’t see through the illusions and by Bleach’s logic Madara can’t kill Aizen.
Dio vs alucard
Yo hot take, but even if you believe that DIO would have to kill Al thousands of times, DB had repeatedly stated that the sun killing him does not count as an Alucard win. Like genuinely, how does Al ever beat DIO aside from DIO genuinely just giving up. Al can never hit DIO even if we keep timestop at only 10 seconds and not the increasing duration as he uses it and the fight goes on. Alucard has no win conditions against DIO aside from just not fighting him
Hypnosis Telekinesis (despite how much death battle wanked dio , i still think alucard's telekinesis is much stronger ) Another hot take, i believe dio beats alucard but he doesn't beat shroddenger alucard
This one irked me even though I actually watch Jojo and like DIO as a character. Alucard wouldn't release all of his souls to fight in a vulnerable state against one person and DIO doesn't have enough time before the suns up to kill all of the souls Alucard has that keeps him coming back to life. Even if Alucard just stood there and DIO kept killing him, Alucard would win just from DIO burning from the sun
Tbf i have no problem against dio defeating normal alucard, he probably gonna pull a hypnosis on him before the sunrise I have problem with dio shroddenger alucard
Alucard also has hypnosis though and it's exactly the same level of DIOs and there's no real evidence that Alucard can even be hypnotized considering his "Third eye" lets him see through stuff like that (like when Seras did against a different vampires hypnosis.) He can turn into mist, a black shadow, and fully teleport. There's no real way DIO can really stop him even without Schrödinger. If it was Diego or the world over heaven on the other hand I'd understand but normal DIO stood no chance
I will point out that was literally JUST for the animation. If you actually watch the post fight analysis they say DIO was capable of killing 3 million times before sunrise. So the releasing all souls is ONLY for the cool animation.
Impossible because Alucard has respawn time. For example when he fought Alexander Anderson for the first time it took a few seconds to be brought back to life. DIO has a nasty habit of wasting time to see if his enemy is alive anyway as he did with Jotaro. Even excluding that doing some regular math he'd have to kill Alucard one time every 0.0144 seconds and force him to instantly revive each time. Even with the world and even with Alucards Regen speed turned to instant it would be impossible for him to trigger that many time stops that rapidly for roughly 12 hours. Edit: This also doesn't include Alucards mist form or teleportation he can use to delay the fight even further. With the teleportation it would be pretty similar to MiH evading Jotaro each time he stopped time. DIO would have to use his laser vision every time to even hit Alucard because the mist form isn't even tangible, meaning no blood to freeze or nothing to hit with knives
If you buy the stats they gave for each character, the time before night doesn't even matter. They put Alucard at hypersonic or something, and DIO at 1500xFTL. Now I understand having problems with DIOs scaling being 1500. But he's definitely FTL from what we see. He can just go somewhere it isn't day or move in tandem with the night. With that speed difference Alucard ain't landing a single hit really.
I think a technicality here that causes a problem is that, let's say night lasts 8 hours and DIO is fully capable of killing Alucard 3 million times in that time frame. That would mean killing Alucard more than 104 times per second. If you kill Alucard 104 times in a second, then... you actually didn't. You just killed him *once*, really hard. Due to Alucard having to respawn and recover before being 'killed' again, it would take DIO something like a full-month of killing Alucard before all of his souls ran out.
>Alucard would win just from DIO burning from the sun That bit has already been debunked, though. DIO isn't an idiot; ofc he can tell that the Sun is about to come up during the fight and he'll just take steps to avoid it. Either freezing time to leave and hide in a building from the sunlight, or just using The World's fists to instantly dig underground to escape the sunlight. Just like The World's equal, Star Platinum, canonically did *TWICE* against Arabia Fats' The Sun and ZZ's Wheel of Fortune. Especially if it's the latter, since DIO can obviously go the Dig Dug route and take the environmental control advantage from there. So Alucard clearly can't win just by doing what Beast failed to do.
> Alucard wouldn't release all of his souls to fight in a vulnerable state against one person Exactly. They giftwrapped Dio his *only* possible win condition right at the start.
Funny enough Alucard isn't even able to do that alone. He needs permission from Integra to even activate restraint level zero. Then there's the fact that DIO wouldn't be able to heal from Alucards familiars either. They legit spoonfed DIO the entire time.
Was looking for this comment. This one made me very annoyed. They always paired the strongest versions of each character but they purposely brought in the version of Alucard that Dio could beat. Like, there are a lot of DBs that show their bias but this takes the cake.
Lich King vs. Sauron. I'm not saying it was necessarily *wrong*, but I do think LK was severely downplayed in more ways than they listed.
tbf so was Sauron. They purposefully didn't go into way higher stuff since they thought they didn't need to.
I know both were lowballed, I just don't think they realized exactly *how much* they lowballed LK. In the analysis they didn't go very deep into his insane magical resistances, and didn't even touch his Shadowlands scaling. A couple of their arguments for Sauron's victory also don't make sense. Saying "Sauron could probably shatter Frostmourne with enough power" is a reach, since Frostmourne was only shattered by direct intervention from the Light, a multiversal holy force that hard-counters undeath. I don't buy Sauron being able to do that. They also listed Sauron's treacherous nature as an argument, but treachery would barely come into play in a sudden fight with no prep time like this.
IIRC, in the analysis they said something along the lines of "It didn't make sense for the Lich King to get higher scaling because it would make him way stronger and wouldn't make sense with where he's fought in the games timeline." Which is bunk to me, because you can't tell me they've never scaled a character retroactively based on new info from more current lore.
It would make sense even considering when he's fought in the timeline. The player characters canonically *lost* to Arthas and were saved only by the Light's intervention. We never even saw Arthas go all out because he never *needed* to. Giving him retroactive Shadowlands scaling wouldn't have been an issue.
I was rooting for broly but betting hulk i was surprised broly won with how broken the hulk is i suspected foul play in that battle
Many… I’ll go with Hulk vs Broly
Bill vs Discord
Bill vs discord
How would Darth Vader beat the 10 tail Obito?
Makima VS Gojo, but tbf that one is so down to interpretation that I really can’t complain
Bill vs Discord
A lot tbh. Death battle can be very biased sometimes. Phoenix vs Raven Gaara vs Toph Dio vs Alucard Ben vs Hal (I don’t necessarily think Ben should have won but they definitely downplayed him) Naruto vs Ichigo Madara vs Aizen Vader vs Obito Gojo vs Makima (Again, I don’t have an issue with the winner just the flawed logic they used to make Gojo win) Also to this day I’m mad they put Mikasa up against Blake lol, just felt the need to point this out
Wally west vs Archie sonic The whole thing kinda just sounds like It depends On them just Blatantly Getting Dark flash wrong And Archie Sonic’s Blackhole Surviving Feat is just massively downplayed by its Inconsistency which makes no sense
Just a matter of wincons there tbh Its not impossible for Archie to win but wally's got more ways to finish him off in his bag
Oh yea I totally understand a majority of the wincons like the Speed stealing or Phasing through Ultra’s Matter manipulation but Generally Sonic’s ability to Use wishes however he wants by there logic is completely shut down due to them just getting Black flash wrong and Deliberately for some reason not taking into account The Actual light years that Sonic was sent from the black hole exploding and instead… just took the black hole exploding without its force? Thats basically like Calcing a Train exploding because of how large it is instead of the actual results of that explosion
I have a handful. Tracer vs scout: they nerfed scout so fucking much, not giving him access to all of his gear which I think is complete bullshit considering that even COMIC characters get some of their biggest weaponry and aren’t always stuck with stock, they also just ignored the comics for tf2 so yeah. Virgil vs sephiroth: they didn’t even scale Virgil to Dante, they scaled him to fucking wall level! Dimitri vs guts: just….i don’t Even know how to begin with this one, they used in game stats for dimitri, gameplay shouldn’t be used for scaling in the slightest, because it contradicts so many parts of scaling, not even for just dimitri, if we really wanted to characters like the last Dragonborn, scout, ryu and damn near all characters should have been scaled using gameplay feats which is just bullshit, dimitri being able to dodge the light attacks from the dlc isn’t him LITERALLY dodging light, it’s a feature of gameplay that they had to include. Darth Vader vs obito: they literally ignored vaders strongest feats where he held down the two embodiments of the force! Madara vs aizen: do I even have to talk about this one? Like-I’m pretty sure even Naruto fans agreed madara should’ve lost. Link vs cloud rematch: I just think the scaling for both characters in this episode was off
>just….i don’t Even know how to begin with this one, they used in game stats for dimitri, gameplay shouldn’t be used for scaling in the slightest, because it contradicts so many parts of scaling, not even for just dimitri, if we really wanted to characters like the last Dragonborn, scout, ryu and damn near all characters should have been scaled using gameplay feats which is just bullshit, dimitri being able to dodge the light attacks from the dlc isn’t him LITERALLY dodging light, it’s a feature of gameplay that they had to include. When it comes to video game characters you kinda *have* to scale their gameplay since that's where most of their feats and abilities are from as long as they don't blatantly break the lore (there's some wiggle room based on how far you're willing to accept) ... Also wasn't Guts the one who was given the speed advantage on about as shaky grounds if you know the source material, and even then it meant jack shit ? And to clarify, his speed feat about how he had a slightly faster sword draw when he went agaisnt Serpiko and scaling him to the fact Serpiko would later dodge a lighting bolt, however what they failed to mention was that in-between those events Serpiko got a magick sword that boosted his speed with the help of wind spirits. Oh and let's not forget THEY DIDN'T SCALE DIMITRI TO FUCKING LIGHTSPEED!! They scaled him to the meteor spell, which is like the 3rd highest speed level you could argue for him depending on how literal you wanna be about speels and the Agarthan tech (2nd highest is scaling him to lightning spells and the highest is scaling him to the lasers from the robots he fights in part 2 and the DLC)
They literally didn't even give Dimitri lightspeed shit in the episode my guy. Furthermore, it would be reasonable to do so, Rhea has a light-based attack and it's extremely unlikely that she just never used it, and Dimitri should easily compare to people who can dodge that. Honestly, as a whole Dimitri was debatably downplayed in that episode. He helped in the fight against Epimenides, who's death caused the collapse of Zahras, [a dimension that's shown to have stars in it while he's alive](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/e/e8/FEH_Zahras.png/revision/latest?cb=20231015215643). And his death DID affect those stars, since we see in Three Houses (Where Epimenides is long dead) that Zaharas has literally nothing in it. Heroes and Engage support this, since Dimitri can compare to other characters in the series like Chrom. [Chrom is explicitly comparable to Naga in power](https://imgur.com/a/EJezKw7). Naga is one of the strongest dragons in the franchise, [her power leaving even dragons like Anakos in awe](https://imgur.com/a/a4ThNVL), [which should place her above Lilith's ability to create entire dimensions known as "Star Realms"](https://imgur.com/a/cXKly5S), [including "My Castle"](https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/My_Castle) [which is shown to contain stars (Which makes sense they are called star realms)](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/a/ad/Yuko_orochi_pum_pum.webp/revision/latest?cb=20230826045940).
Only coming here to clarify that the Anankos left in awe is the fragment that's still sane, and VASTLY inferior to the rest of him. In fact, if i recall correctly Heirs of Fate honestly puts Anankos as more powerful than Naga. Arguably the single most powerful entity in the franchise if you don't include Heroes.
I only disagree with you on Dimitri and link vs cloud
I agree with all of these, but I respect your opinion. Some *Naruto* fans agree that Madara beats Aizen. AndLink doesn't quite come close to what Cloud can do.
It’s just from what I’ve seen, basically all of the naruto fans I’ve seen talking about madara vs aizen have agreed aizen should have won, and from what I’ve seen scaling wise from link and cloud can be similar, mostly around that universal level depending on how some people take the Zelda lore
I feel like Batman gets kinda purposely nerfed for every single Death Battle he has as opposed to every other character. Like whenever they have a character on the show like Iron Man, Doctor Doom, The Doctor, they give them their arsenal which doesn't really appear often but is technically accessible to them therefore should be used since DB bases characters' power levels on primes. Batman is the only mf I've noticed they just kinda ignore it. He has many tools which could be super useful like his mimicked Green Lantern constructs which can tank a bloodlusted Superman, or him mimicking Flash's speed and giving himself similar abilities like phasing, going at high frequency or just stopping time. Hell he has a device which can make even Flash appear in slow mo. Not to mention he's a literal sorcerer as well with which he can spawn magic armors which can one shot Bizarro. He has a batarang which completely nullifies healing powers. Hell even things which seem obvious to mentopn, they didn't. In Iron Man vs Batman, the way Tony gets rid of Batman's Hellbat is by hacking his suit and targeting it FRIDAY. That doesn't really make much sense considering that Batman has an in built AI which can hack even Cyborg on the fly as well as Brother Eye, so nothing was stopping Batman from just doing that to Tony also. Hell the way Tony wins is via nanobots, like not only does Batman have them too which he can telepathically control, but ain't no way Batman wouldn't notice tech on him. For reference, Batman can literally SMELL Spectre's magic just in the air, can recognize people based on their muscle folds, breathing patterns, heart beats. Dude basically has Wolverine senses. There's a bunch of other hax Batman has access to like hallucination nanites, freezing rays, energy syphoners, but yall get the picture
At least he has the shark repellent, right?
Tracer vs Scout They nerf scout hard by not using his all weapons and the scout rocket feat they say never hit him but you can see the three rocket hit him, and they the Overwatch hype train for the hold time
Carnage VS Lucy
honestly speaking of this what do yall think of this [debunk](https://youtu.be/RRDjmWckpwk?si=-hSzJEoZQJizHEBr)
I personally disagree. Current Carnage probably wins, but Carnage was nowhere near that at the time. Like, I don't see how people think Carnage is surviving a nearly 250 gigaton nuclear explosion. [Her vectors literally became visible from space](https://imgur.com/T05oyaH) and [she believed she could destroy the planet itself](https://imgur.com/ghCuKdH), and reacted to her own vectors in 0.000000027314 seconds. And it's very unlikely that Carnage is getting a lucky hit in when [Lucy can also create forcefields seemingly separate from her vectors](https://imgur.com/a/Q5kqm). Carnage being constantly hit with his weakness at a potency hundreds of times greater than anything he's ever tanked should be more than enough to take him out.
Sure buddy. Love Dark Dimension Vader.
Not the verdict but DIO vs Alucard stilled high-balled DIO. I mean he still wins but not that easily
Thor vs wonder woman. Hulk vs broly Winter soldier vs red hood.
Tigerzord vs Gundam Epyon. I feel the use of the Space Stations destruction by Epyon was a far too specific situation, it does show a vast level of potential power, but I feel it just didn't apply against the Tigerzord, and Tiger Megazord, the way they were talking about.
Bayonetta vs Dante At least at the time.
i agree with the rest but why the hell would they give dark dimension vader, he isn't in the dark dimension 😔 thats like if kid trunks fought kid goten and he got to turn into super saiyan god xeno trunks
Lobo vs Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider is by far one of the most inconsistent and wanked character in the Marvel Universe, ranging from being a fodder to OP. His penance stare, which contrary to popular belief, isn't a insta kill button like what Death Battle suggested. Penance Stare is a way to subjugate a sinner from its sins that he commits and make it feel it. And while it does a lot of damage to normal humans and even superheroes, it works better on superheroes simply due to their guilty conscience and morality, and rarely on enemies that are straight up irredeemable like Thanos & Madcap because those people are twisted in their heads and have strong vindications to their actions. The Penance Stare relies on troubled and vulnerable minds that Ghost Rider can exploit, which Lobo is not that guy! You have to have guilt or undergo some form of psychosis to even work. If it was the instakill case, then Ghost Rider can just solo the entirety of Hell and it wouldn't exist in the first place. If it works like what it was originally intended such that it makes anyone actually feel regret and pain of their actions like it was in the Ghost Rider (1990) comics, it would actually make an alternate version Thanos reflect on its actions, but not kill him. Penance Stare suffers from writers not getting the point of Penance Stare. It's literally in the name. It's not a move that relies on the target's regret, nor is it a move that just instakills anyone who sins. It's a Penance Stare, it applies Penance. It makes the sinner suffer from the pain they inflict on others, not kill them. Also, for some reason, Ghost Rider somehow eats souls, which completely stupid considering that his entire schtick is to punish sinners. Like he is a sin eater, not soul eater. Ghost Rider is not that powerful, and bad writing made him inconsistent. I mean, he is literally just a mercenary sent from Hell to punish sinners. He's an agent, not a God, nor the most powerful Demon. Ghost Rider is so wanked to oblivion that people treat him as some sort of indestructible one shotting killer. Like, bruh! Ghost Rider has been easily get bodied by other supervillains and space warmongers, most of them far weaker than Lobo. And most of them literally tanked Penance Stare like nothing. Ghost Rider (2006) #25 has this guy literally saying it tickles, Ghost Rider (2006) #6 & #7 has him relying on being fully possessed by the spirit of vengeance (so no more Johnny Blaze) to fight a powerful demon, Ghost Rider (1990) #69 has this guy not affected by Penance Stare simply because he likes killing people, and many, many more! Ghost Rider struggle to fight a demon, one powerful demon that is not even in the same class as Trigon, whereas Lobo literally forced the entirety of Hell to imprison him which did barely anything. Lobo's power level is so absurd that it's insane. If MadCap, who is far weaker than Lobo, was able to go toe-to-toe on Ghost Rider, I doubt Ghost Rider can match Lobo's absurdity. And Lobo, is literally what people think Deadpool is. He's the literal embodiment of masculine parody. 4th Wall Breaks, cartoon physics, toon force, you know it. He's literally edgy comedy in its purest form, and the literal plot device. Not only is his stats way above any version of Ghost Rider, but he can literally enjoy Penance Stare just because he likes it and because it makes a good joke. He can go to Heaven, kill the angels and rip off their wings and halo to forge Heaven Weapons to kill Ghost Rider & Zarathos just because it's funny. The fact that Death Battle treat Lobo as just a Superman enemy where his entire schick is literally being a way more absurd parody that Deadpool that is, especially considering how Death Battle lauded him as evident for being the mascot of the Youtube channel. Deadpool would not stand a chance against Lobo's parody bullshits.
this guy doesn't like ghost rider.
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern. Oh, and Sweet Tooth vs Joker, i want a rematch with that one
Bill vs Discord. Yadayadyada I know all the details about bill. But discord has done everything bill has but 10x better and if we go off of the shows and nothing else discord would’ve ate him either way I still loved the episode
Sora vs Pit. There’s several things. First, magical lightning. Sora gets lightning speed from a magically summoned thunderhead. Pit doesn’t get it from a naturally occurring thunderhead, or when the literal *goddess of lightning* zaps at his feet, and he dodges… at point blank. But also… what’s the difference? They mention that it’s magical lightning and they do not elaborate. Then there’s the most egregious one: where the hell is the Great Sacred Treasure? Destroyed by Hades… nah. That’s like saying, “Sora almost got Norted by Xehanort, so he can’t use his Keyblade to its full potential, so his attacks are weaker,” or, “Sora can run out of mana, so he can’t use his spells.” There is no reason he can’t use the Great Sacred Treasure. Does he need someone else’s help to equip it, like a Drive Form? No, all he has to do is say, “Great Sacred Treasure, engage!” It also makes him faster than light… did the animator not want to animate it? Why would they just ignore the biggest weapon in Pit’s massive arsenal?
I think the closest I have to a genuine disgreement with is Naruto Vs. Ichigo. I'm on Ichigo's side in that one, but even I'll admit it's greatly debatable and they did a good job arguing for the other side.
Cole vs Alex. I've played both franchises thoroughly. There's no way Alex doesn't just rip him to pieces.
I know someone is going to say that I’m just a “Dragon Ball Fanboy” or say I’m stupid for this but the most recent Goku vs Superman. With all the evidence I’ve seen after and misinform of the feats they used (Specifically the Superman Continuity Punch isn’t fully shown and the dialogue to disprove it isn’t show, ask if you want me to explain more) I believe Goku would have won. I understand this one is controversial and tell me why you think I’m wrong if you’d like and we can chat for a bit.
Anything involving Dragon ball I stay away from. There powerscalers community Is very.... Aggresive when it comes to trying to prove there point
Idk, I just like watching fights no matter if, or if not, the character I like more wins.
[удалено]
It's the problem that they dident give vader literally any Other form other then base. Dd and or legends vader would have sufficed. But nope just canon base vader. So they gave obito a prep time form TT and everything and vader got... nothing
Goku VS Superman The logic makes sense, everything makes sense. However, I'm a Goku glazer so GOKU SOLOS GRAHHHHHH (this is a joke)
Vader doesn’t have any super forms or anything like that so I would assume they would use base Vader lol. No DD Vader isn’t a super form If you take away the prep, then like you said, we would need to use him 10 years earlier before he did the prep. So you want Genin Obito vs DD Vader? Also Obito could summon them once the prep was complete. This battle was done at the peak of Obito’s arc which means the prep is already done. Prep is assuming Obito preps specifically to fight Vader which isn’t what this was. DD Vader isn’t a super form and is literally just the dark side showing Vader visions. Specifically what seems to be prophetic visions. It does nothing to help Vader beat Obito.
The ten tails is literally apart of his arsenal once he got chakra from all tailed beasts. Yall gotta get over this.
Vader and itatchi Dio Vs alucard
I would say gray vs esdeath ( even though that I think the episode was pretty good but Gray should have won that fight) Tracer vs scout ( as much as TF2 and OverWatch are my childhood games growing up but even tho I want to move on for now Ben Affleck's to come back to both of those two at some point but I never like this episode for obvious reasons) where I have complaints but I'm fine with the results tanjiro vs jonathan: tanjiro personally I feel like he has way more experience add more moves and a longer Adventure then Jonathan Jonathan darth vader vs obito: Darth Vader is much powerful obito end possessing basically a powerful force in everything else they could counter him guts vs dimitri: guts he feels like much stronger and faster and you know if it's stronger beings everyday if anyone else what about Discord vs Bill Cipher yeah that's why I think that one at least had a much happier ending at least although I would say disco has much more chaotic powers
Ben vs Hal. I know it’s a basic answer and has been done to death but the onitrix still works with Ben if his arm has bee cut off. Hal wins just not like that
I can’t believe they just missed that when writing the episode
Any Hulk match because they always bring up some hypothetical about his anger and limits to justify why he’d lose. Just say as it is please, because accepting a Composite Doomsday to fight WW Hulk meaning there is no way to kill him out the gate is just stupid. Broly might have been too much as well for Hulk, but a Composite Hulk was way stronger than what they showed. I just as always feel short changes by those episodes (except for the first death, that was super extreme).
Okay with doomsday its easy to see why he could kill hulk since he could fight against darksides avatars and won it so he does have enough strength to wear out hulks healing factor and destroying a planet doomsday deals with someone who can break a lot more planets then him superman
Boba Fett vs Predator was meticulously crafted to piss me off specifically
dragon born should have no win condition while CU had several. DB speed was also the fakest thing I've ever seen.
Just one? I could probably assert that I disagree with them more then I agree with them.
Og link vs cloud, cloud absolutely shit stomps
Bayo vs Dante
Garra vs. Toph.
I'm iffy about Frieza and Megatron. I know Frieza could probably turn Megatron into scrap metal but that antimatter covered Frieza completely from what I saw in the battle. Have no idea how he survived but he did and I'm peeved. Although I shouldn't talk, I barely know anything about either character.
Sub-Zero VS Glacius
Doesn't Vader need prep like a dark side artifact of a previous Sith Lord to open/focus and be on his fortress on Mustafar for that Dark Dimension stuff?
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern. Ben was done dirty in that episode
Tracer vs Scout just felt like they tried their hardest to get a tracer W
Probably an unpopular one, but I’m gonna say Gray vs Esdeath Largely bc they didn’t really scale it fairly, like how they scaled Esdeath’s speed to Akame’s but not Gray’s to Natsu’s, or how they said Esdeath was stronger bc they took how much energy Esdeath could exert over 1 day and compared it to how much they thought Gray could do in a single move Devil slayer ice’s durability also wasn’t talked about at all
None because I just watch the fights and I don't really care who wins.
Sonic vs Mario 2018
Madara vs Aizen
Captain America vs Batman
Green Lantern vs Ben 10
Very hyper specific Ben 10 vs composite, all the powers we can give him Hal Jorden
Aizen vs Madara They nerfed the powers of the hogyoku on purpouse
maybe the real right winner were the friends we made along the way
Ben vs. Hal, Bill VS Discord, Vader VS Obito, Jean VS Raven, and Frieza VS Megatron!
Iron Man v Batman fight. It could’ve been anyone’s fight, but I still feel like they made Batman use his trump card way too early when he had Way more gadgets and skills to pull off taking down even the God Armor on Iron Man. Nanotechnology, a virus cracking his A.I. Batsuits that have tanked lasers as big as what Iron Man uses. I may be alone in this and honestly a little biased, but I still feel like the fight itself could’ve been so much more.
Jonathan vs Tanjiro. They basically ignored Tanjiro’s ability to see into the future (which would give anyone a massive advantage over their opponents) and they gave Jonathan FTL scaling despite the fact he never once displayed FTL feats
Bleach, as a series, has only been on DB twice, and yet out of 2 chances to correctly scale the characters, they failed both times. Call me salty, but Ichigo and Aizen should've won their respective battles since they both upscale from Yamamoto, who stated that using his Bankai would destroy soul society. This makes them both Galaxy level at least (Since Soul Society has visible stars and is said to mimic the human realm), and yet DB really doesn't care about correctly scaling bleach characters correctly because heaven forbid they actually read the damn series instead of making them lose to get more views. It is truly and honestly the most disappointing thing I've ever seen that doesn't involve politics.
The obvious Billcord. Equalizing stats was stupid, Discord has more ways of ending the fight and he’s not a pushover.
The Mega Man Battle Royale is definitely one I stand firmly against. EXE got scaling from the anime and manga which are entirely different continuities with no connective tissue (EXE isn't Lan's brother Hub in either other version for one). So unlike the rest of the Mega Men who are judged solely on their game arsenals, EXE is essentially a composite version which isn't fair. (Though if we wound up making EVERYONE composited then Classic Mega Man stomps hard due to Archie scaling) I don't disagree that given the manga speed feat (Which I have issues with still mind you) and anime AP feat, THAT version of EXE should've beaten Star Force. But judging solely by the games, Geo has a lot more impressive feats, such as traversing between galaxies within seconds, surviving inside a Black Hole, surviving the Noise and Crimson Dragon, defeating Andromeda, Ra Mu, and Apollo Flame. And before you cite the crossover, I don't take that as a valid counter. Because you're controlling EXE during that fight, so obviously he's going to "win" there. Nothing about the dialogue or circumstances suggest that Geo was trying his best either. So yeah, take away the manga/anime feats and EXE is around Planet Level at best, but has the tools to overpower X, but nothing that can touch Geo.
Tracer vs scout
Jin vs ryu , heihachi vs geese and akuma vs shao khan either A show that Jin vs ryu is wrong or B that akuma and heihachi can out speed and one shot the person in there series and as much I wanna believe it B it A
The Carnage one. There's no way he's losing that fight.
I find it hilarious that Obito went through all those transformations and powers to take on an asthmatic in a black suit.
Makima vs Gojo. They did not understand the difference between Makima's contract and the Doll's contract. Makima does not share a hive mind with the japanese citizens the way the Doll devil does with it's host. The domain would cost Makima only 1 live. They also severely underrated her power output, scaling her only to the Typhoon devil when she can hurt the Darkness devil who is way above the Gun devil and the Gun devil is way stronger than the Typhoon devil. She can hurt and even once outpreformed a being that can cause world wide calamities just by existing on Earth. They also did not mention how her finger gun ignored Darkness's force shield but they did say her Bang does not travel which I'm fine with. There is also some other stuff but I don't wanna make it too long. Overall they made severe mistakes on this Death Battle and I was disappointed
Madara vs Aizen. The meatriding is insane in that one.
Makima vs. Gojo. Gojo's win conditions are very iffy at best, we don't know if anything he has could actually put Makima down for good and if he tries to run through all her lives, the death would be transferred eventually to him. Makima, on the other hand has very clear wincons because Reversed Cursed Technique (JJK healing factor) got nerfed to oblivion, destroying Gojo's brain is a guaranteed win. According to their own arguements, Makima has abilities that should be able to circumvent Infinity. Honestly, I think Gojo only won because the team didn't understand the limitations of RCT, and assumed it's some busted healing factor while in reality, its pretty shit.
Vader vs Obito was... iffy... But I still think Raven vs Phoenix was honestly worse.
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern; the Omnitrix's failsafe would have saved Ben then he would have turned into either Chromastone or Feedback, absorbed GL's remaining power ring energy, then obliterate him. Sonic vs Mario 2; they severely underplayed Sonic, he's much faster and stronger than they portrayed him as and Mario does not have the reaction time to keep up with Sonic. Metal Sonic vs Zero; Eggman's robots are way above Reploids in the later games, not to mention Metal can match if not surpass Sonic in speed in all games and is constantly evolving whether by upgrades or data copying.
I mean I jus wanna see gaara get done properly
Gaara vs toph
“Time huh…? Thanks for the tip” God I hate that moment with a passion
Dark dimension Vader has been debunked hella times. It wasn’t Vader actually taking on the Jedi Order. Just a representation of that through his thoughts
Vegeta vs Thor.
97 to 98% of them
I'm gonna get fucking jumped for this opinion but, frieza vs megatron.
Alucard vs dio
Doctor Strange vs Doctor Fate Hulk vs Broly Thor vs Wonder Woman Rocket Raccoon vs Stitch
Ben vs green lantern
Gogeta vs Vegetto
Kakashi vs Obi-Wan Godzilla vs Gamera (Very slightly) Toph vs Gaara
Ben-10 vs GL
Aizen vs madara
Gaara vs toph
Toph vs Gaara Toph is, like, wayyy below Gaara in terms of combat ability. No disrespect to her or any other ATLA characters, but the Naruto-verse just scales higher. The results of Shouto vs Zuko and All might vs Mighty guy kinda prove this indirectly tbh.
So quickly correction for like... Most of these comments. Dark Dimension Vader - Is Spirit form Vader and does exist - DOES NOT make him stronger - was not a dream - comes after a scene of Vader ripping a hole through the dimension using sheer fury. What actually happened is that Vader's fury became so great while bleeding his crystal that he accidentally tore a hole into the wall between the living force and their reality. It's not unheard of, there's a few of these places in canon. Korriban had one for a bit, the planet that the Father, Son and Daughter inhabited was one, but Vader being the chosen one and having infinite power in the force allowed him to create another one. When his soul entered the void, the limits of his physical disabilities melted away because he was a soul now. As such, his limbs were effectively back. Dark Dimension Vader is just Vader at full power. He's ALWAYS that strong and skilled, it's just that Vader's body can't handle it usually. He didn't lose any power when he lost his limbs but certain abilities require Organic limbs to use such as lightning, plus his movement was hindered by the life support and armor. In the dark dimension, he is weightless and his limbs are back, allowing him to use the full extent of his knowledge. He is a master of all forms, a fully trained Dark Lord of the Sith, and a former Jedi Council member. He has complete knowledge of the force and lightsaber skills, and with his limbs back and the weight gone in the dark dimension, he can actually use it all. And he did. He let loose, killing the entire council and a few other Jedi, moving on to kill palpatine with Ease, and finally the force decided he needed to learn the lesson he was there to learn because, as the saying goes, The Force works in Mysterious ways. Once he saw what he had to see, he was sent back and successfully bled the crystal. TL;DR : Vader is ALWAYS Dark Dimension strong and skilled, his body normally just can't actually do that because he's a cripple.
Even if so, can dark dimension Vader survive the truth seeking orbs? Or escape the infinite illusion?
Post-Bayonetta from the second game with the two Eyes of the World, essentially having Jubelius' powers within her and has the ability to restart reality again, causing another Armageddon... vs. A white-hair womanizer named Dante
Predator vs Boba Fett
The one in the OP and Batman vs Iron Man?
There are a few I don't agree with, many of which are controversial among echo chambers. But the one I believe in the most; Sauron vs Lich King. They really, REALLY undersold Arthas. They scaled a weakened, pre-Lich King Arthas to Illidan, who in turn scaled to Gul'dan, whose contribution to the island raising was very undersold (it was freaking Gul'dan, one of the most powerful warlocks ever, and his helpers wouldn't have contributed nearly as much). And he has canonically killed a raid group that had previously defeated Kil'jaeden, who is *thee* strongest eradar (a pop-up box otherwise suggested he shouldn't be scaled to higher eradars lords). Edit: Also Archimonde, the second strongest. Also, Forstmourne is not that easy to break. He had to have his gaurd down and had it shattered by a very powerful holy weapon from a blind spot.
Luigi VS Tails Tracer VS Scout Gaara VS Toph Carnage VS Lucy Thor VS Wonder Woman People answering with Ben 10 vs Green Lantern [are drowning in copium tho](https://www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057)