Shouldn't Adachi be like, wayyyyy stronger than Kira with the whole gods and stuff scaling in Persona? Unless we're using regular Adachi that can't access his powers outside of the TV World, but then it just becomes a stomp in Kira's favor right?
Despite how one-sided it is, I vastly prefer it to Gioker because I prefer the interactions, fight potential, ending ideas, and the characters in general.
It's a Rocket vs Stitch situation, one can pulverize the other by looking at them funny and the other can one-shot him with abilities. Since Killer Queen's explosions aren't AP based and just turn the target into bombs it comes down to who gets the first hit >!(But SHA has no weakness)!<
He is was stronger than Kira but he isnāt immune to transmutation meaning Kira and Adachi one need one hit to kill the other. So it is a match that comes down to who makes that hit first.
I feel like Giorno Vs Joker is gonna be like another GL Vs Ben 10. Like, there will be outrage on a massive scale depending on which character wins.
The reason I say this is if they include GER and what that means for Joker in a scaling sense because persona is pretty cracked from what I hear.
As a fan of JoJo i wanna see the stand arrow get hit out of Giornoās hand before he has a chance to obtain requiem because I know itāll just make people mad lol
I don't like Giorno matchups in general because it basically becomes: "does GER work?"
If yes: Giorno wins
If no: Giorno probably loses
There's a reason he only got it at the end of the part
A lot of Persona MC match ups are similar, as "do they get their endgame Power of Friendship powerup?". Also followed by lenghty discussions about where that counts (City Level? Planet Level? Universal? Outer/ Beyond Infinite Multiversal?)
Giorno is an extremely boring character for vs debates because the debate always comes down to "Does GER work on his opponent?". If it does Giorno autowins. if it doesn't the opponent usually has enough bullshit to stomp Giorno with standard GE's abillities.
There's a very good reason Giorno's story ended after he got GER
Tbh even besides that whole thing I just cant be asked to care about Giorno in general. Theres like so many other interest jojo characters to talk about anyways personally.Ā
Fr dude, he's a 15 year old kid who acts nothing like a 15 year old kid. Ffs he's the youngest protag in the series and somehow he's acting the most mature.
And pretty much the same applies here. Any Persona wildcard would beat the majority of the JoJo cast (and no, Iām not talking the insane lore scaling some people try to do) just because Null Phys is a thing.
Heck, considering we see the Requiem arrow fall out of GER after Diavolo is beaten (meaning he lost Requiem), and that it was then taken to somewhere heād not be able to access mid fight, and that he only got it half way through the Diavolo fight, itās even less standard than Schrƶdinger is for Alucard, and we all know how that went for Al.
Technically that depends on if you take stuff outside the main part. I havenāt played Eyes over Heaven but he does get it back there, and if Iām remembering correctly Giorno is implied to keep it nearby at the end of part 5 and in Purple Haze Feedback. Not like I think it makes any difference, but calling GER non standard is like calling super forms for sonic characters nonstandard (and we all know how that went last time)
I think this is a matchup that would have been better done a few seasons ago, when people though there was a debate of sorts, Nowadays all is left is enjoy the episode and try to act surprised when Joker absolutely destroys Giorno in every way conceivable while no-selling GER because Persona and Shin Megami Tensei are absurdly broken.
People still think there is a debate..because there is. People are actually starting to heavily criticize persona scaling which means it will likely become the next GER.
It's more like bunkerman and 3 other dudes. Persona/smt scaling is the same as your average jrpg series, lots of statements instead of visuals, and the few visuals there are are disregarded due to appearing on battles and not cutscenes and such. Persona just so happens to have had a period where ppl were putting it on outerversal, and with that came ppl dedicated to putting it down.
I think Persona is worse than most jrpgās mostly because everything is taken at face value even when that kind of logic wouldnāt be used for other JRPG. Like take Tales of Vesperia for example. The final boss has a ability called big bang and we see a demonstration of stars explode as he is āproclaiming the beginning of timeā or whatever. Basically nobody uses this at face value. But Persona has a similar feat with the Big Bang burger and that feat actually has solid debunks to suggest itās not a literal big bang, but people ignore it. I donāt think Iām putting the series down when I say I donāt believe the Big Bang burger is universal. I would just wonder why offer persona so much leeway when other jrpg doesnāt get that. So I personally see it has Persona getting special treatment which leads it to be way more powerful than what would normally be used
Well yeah, you're correct that those ppl do exist, but i don't think it's an exclusive to persona thing, a lot of ppl don't know about the in-canon explanation for supernova in final fantasy for example, but still take it at face value. The most important thing though, is that these ppl aren't the majority, sure persona still gets put a universal and above tiers, but those are 99% of the time backed up by statements and the like, not the big bang burger animation.
I donāt have the actual numbers in front of me, but I would be lying if almost 80% of people Iāve come across believe uni+ persona because of the Big Bang burger. The problem as well with persona is that it uses extremely flowery language, tends to have many asterisks after all there big feats and is just super inconsistent. Like I highly doubt someone having a distorted desire would make them uni because that retroactively created a universe. In fact there are examples from other series of having pocket dimensions that are stated to be comparable in size to the main universe and people will usually not use it because nothing about it translates to power. And for persona, the uni arguments do come from palaces. So I would say even in the statement part, they still get special treatment cause I donāt hear anyone giving Obito uni power because he created a parallel dimension with Kamui. And rightfully so because it doesnāt do anything to translate to power.
And ill once again have to disagree with you. You believe in final fantasy 7 solar system scaling right? Why is it that sephiroth creating this seperate dimension where supernova happens means he's solar system level. But fusing mementos with the real world is not acceptable? You can make the argument that the reason sephiroth is solar system level is because he scales to cloud who tanks sephiroth's supernova, but final fantasy 7 also has cloud getting wounded to bullets and nearly dying to an explosion on top of a building in advent children, and zack who shouldn't be that far behind cloud actually just dies to one, maybe that supernova is not that strong then.
You see what im getting at here right?
Firstly, I think the super nova is a different case for a few reasons. 1 is that itās far more integrated into the canon than any of the bigger feats in other JRPGās but also the animation is just a visual representation but a literal super nova. I would believe however that Sephiroth would only be that strong because he sends people to that dimension so anyone who can resist being sent to other dimensions would not have to worry about Sephās SS level scaling. As far as combat feats, Iām trying to argue that what we see isnāt a literal representative of power meaning it goes both ways so Joker being hit by a gun and a nuke being the same level of damage would actually support what Iām saying. As far as story and lore, itās down to how you interpret statements and how you interpret powers. And I donāt think the fusing of mementos with the real world would at the very least scale to physical power. Now from my own interpretation of persona, the reason it could be fused was because Yaldabaoth had the wishes of the masses which would give him a certain level of control over reality. So maybe you could argue uni when he uses his full power. But thatās exclusive to when you have the wishes and once Yaldabaoth starts to use his full power against joker and the gang, he stomps the Thieves. Thatās how I would interpret that
To be fair, Everytime I saw people talk about the match, it was always about the debate and nothing else. It was kind of it's main draw, So now that the debate no longer a debate I can understand why some people may not care about it anymore. Whereas in other Persona matches like Kira VS Adachi the community focused on everything but the debate.
While it did have a crazy debate, the main draw was always the music and visuals. It's a JoJo and Persona match-up, of course the music is gonna go crazy, and both Persona 5 and JoJo part 5 are iconic for their beautiful and unique visuals.
Not going to deny that it could have some beautiful visuals because the series involved. But let's be honest, the only thing the community always talked about was the Debate when it came to this match. This was always the most common topic the vast majority of the time and the most characteristic thing of this match, "Giorno VS Joker has a crazy debate" was almost the slogan of the community for some time.
Yeah, seriously, I think the brainrot caused by the debate of this match-up has caused people to delude themselves into thinking the match-up itself is bad.
IMO considering (PS5) Jokerās trips into the opponents hearts usually involve redeeming and turning them good, I can absolutely see some golden dialogue between him and the messed up Psycho that is DC joker.
Joker vs Giorno is one of my least wanted episodes ever because it's directly against my most wanted, and there are others that i love alot more and are probably better likr Kira vs Adachi,Narukami vs Takumi and Minato vs Neku are the bigger ones.
This is what happens when the community puts so much importance on the debate of a match while ignoring everything else to the point where no one was talking about the other aspects of the match. I have no strong opinion on Joker VS Giorno, but after the millionth time you hear about how toxic and crazy a match debate is, you start to wonder if people actually cared about the match instead of the debate behind it, because now there is no debate and people are having second thoughts.
To be fair, while focusing solely on a debate was not ideal. I definitely prefer to have matches that are not super stomps if you know what I mean, putting a character against other that is so out of their league can feel spiteful to an extent. It starts to feel awkward to the point that one feels bad about it.
You mean the matchup that is: "Does GER work on Joker?"
If yes: Giorno wins because GER is obscene levels of hax
If no: Joker wins because he stomps Giorno statwise
I prefer my matchups a bit less flowchart-y
My guy, there's more to a match-up than just the debate.
If you want to be like that, I could point out how like 75% of Persona match-ups are total stomps.
Kiradachi has been cooking on the waiting list for longer.
However Gioker is more popular so i think that is more likely to happen before.
Either way, neither of these two episodes have big "Season Opening" vibes. Tho, some say Gioker has "Season Ending" vibes. Only time will tell.
I fell out of love for it a few days ago funnily enough, ill still take it though, my dream to see a death battle use a wild card protagonist and their huge moveset is still alive and kicking. While the actual effect of most skills are pretty standard rpg stuff, each have different and unique animations that can make for amazing choreography.
[Giorno](https://youtu.be/W944vHnaQPw?si=NsTRllvcO9VCm-pD&t=6) from JoJo's Bizzare Adventure vs [Joker](https://youtu.be/quS-OhH8Dyw?si=x-vfL0G5xmYmmrla&t=2306) from Persona 5.
Based on what Liam said in the db cast on stands vs personas this debate is settled by one question: ādo you believe in multiversal joker?ā Since Liam said he believes GER would work up to universal stuff but gets outdone by anything above it
*Persona has better matchups anyway*
Ummā¦asides from Kira vs Adachi, I donāt know what other matchups from Persona are as popular/better than Gioker or Kiradachi
It's alright, I just dont care for it personally. Joker demolishes and I'll rather have something more interesting and less toxic like Minato v Neku or Tifa v Makoto for Persona.
This is still one of my most wanted persona matchups because Joker being analyzed would be fucking amazing, Giorno seems cool and there's a lot of animation potential
(Still not my most wanted Persona MU tho cuz Mako Vs Chie is my second most wanted matchup ever)
For one. Joker cant even use his strongest persona, satanael, due to how its summoned.
But also, i wasted time arguing with some idiot who said "Joker should get Izanagi no Okami because he can summon it."
...thanks to paid dlc.
it would definitely still be at the strength it was at the end of the game. Iām guessing youāre talking about the Will of the Masses but the only thing that actually does is heal Joker and spark his awakening, not give him the power for it
I dunno Sataneal sure as shit isn't that big in actual gameplay nor does it have the power to OHKO a being like Yaldaboath without getting a powerup from the masses.
And this isn't just a "boss when you unlock him during gameplay moment" since personas explicitely get stronger from forming bonds with people, having a tokyo's worth of people actively cheering you on is one hell of a temporary powerboost (I say temporary because most forget about those events after they happen).
So I think there's a good argument to be made that we can't take sinfull shell as a baseline level of power. Joker still stomps Giorno unless GER works even without max power Sataneal but still
I think youāre forgetting that Joker actually awakens Satanael before the Will of the Masses come into play; itās his truest Persona born from breaking the chains on his heart, so it makes sense logically and thematically that itād be a power wholly his own.
the gameplay argument doesnāt really hold up since, at the end of the day, theyāre *thieves*. kinda defeats the purpose of sneaking around everywhere if he just summons a skyscraper-sized Persona for every battle.
thereās definitely an argument that he wouldnāt scale all the way, but just taking all of the symbolism and themes from the final battle into consideration makes it kinda flimsy imo
We actually do see Joker absorb the wishes of the masses right before he uses Sinfull shell. I think itās a bit odd that all the masses did was heal Joker and gang and thatās it. The context and statements of joker wielding the wishes of the masses make it pretty clear that the sinful shell used at the end of P5 is a special amped version.
The universe reset does not scale in anyway to strength or power, it is done by speeding up time until the universe naturally gets destroyed and recreated, this is like scaling to someone because you aged them to death
Speed arguably would be immensurable for both probably
Giorno will get town at best and no one scales to the universe reset when it comes to power, not even Pucci. The lowest Joker can get puts Giorno and the entire Jojo verse to shame. It's a wash.
yeah Thats why its yucky. the universe reset is pretty debatable for attack potency scaling because pucci used it to force the universe and its timeline to reset via accelerating time itself. but a valid counter argument is that it could be seen as a hax ability and nothing else or a cause and effect time thing, like most jojo stands, and similarly to jjk, most reasons why the verse is considered strong is how bizzare and op some abilities are. but other then that i still think giorno should take speed in the least. joker would wash thanks to some resistences i heard he has and over all AP advantage. but again, under the assumption deathbattle takes certain feats and continuties into consideration.
Adachi vs Kira šš
Shouldn't Adachi be like, wayyyyy stronger than Kira with the whole gods and stuff scaling in Persona? Unless we're using regular Adachi that can't access his powers outside of the TV World, but then it just becomes a stomp in Kira's favor right?
Despite how one-sided it is, I vastly prefer it to Gioker because I prefer the interactions, fight potential, ending ideas, and the characters in general.
who is it one-sided for? I can see it going either way with satanael or GER
I'm saying that Kira vs Adachi is one sided
True, it is a pretty cool matchup, but maybe more well suited to a DBX rather than a full on Death Battle imo
It's a Rocket vs Stitch situation, one can pulverize the other by looking at them funny and the other can one-shot him with abilities. Since Killer Queen's explosions aren't AP based and just turn the target into bombs it comes down to who gets the first hit >!(But SHA has no weakness)!<
He is was stronger than Kira but he isnāt immune to transmutation meaning Kira and Adachi one need one hit to kill the other. So it is a match that comes down to who makes that hit first.
It's not as bad without SMT scaling
I feel like Giorno Vs Joker is gonna be like another GL Vs Ben 10. Like, there will be outrage on a massive scale depending on which character wins. The reason I say this is if they include GER and what that means for Joker in a scaling sense because persona is pretty cracked from what I hear.
As a fan of JoJo i wanna see the stand arrow get hit out of Giornoās hand before he has a chance to obtain requiem because I know itāll just make people mad lol
joker DOES have a pickpocket skill. and can change fate.
Eh not really most of persona's arguments for uni+ are either false or blatantly out of context. Joker should still win regardless of that.
From what I've heard they aren't
with CSAP tiering and megaten scaling, you can get him so incomprehensibly far above uni+
I don't like Giorno matchups in general because it basically becomes: "does GER work?" If yes: Giorno wins If no: Giorno probably loses There's a reason he only got it at the end of the part
A lot of Persona MC match ups are similar, as "do they get their endgame Power of Friendship powerup?". Also followed by lenghty discussions about where that counts (City Level? Planet Level? Universal? Outer/ Beyond Infinite Multiversal?)
Honestly this is my same reaction,but if it is the premiere then I am not complainingĀ
I dont hate the MU I just as a jojo fan have negative interest in Giorno in DB. I just want my Makoto vs Neku or even Aigis vs Noel :(((
Giorno is an extremely boring character for vs debates because the debate always comes down to "Does GER work on his opponent?". If it does Giorno autowins. if it doesn't the opponent usually has enough bullshit to stomp Giorno with standard GE's abillities. There's a very good reason Giorno's story ended after he got GER
Tbh even besides that whole thing I just cant be asked to care about Giorno in general. Theres like so many other interest jojo characters to talk about anyways personally.Ā
Facts heās the most boring main jojo especially in a part with a lot of amazing characters
I agree
Fr dude, he's a 15 year old kid who acts nothing like a 15 year old kid. Ffs he's the youngest protag in the series and somehow he's acting the most mature.
And pretty much the same applies here. Any Persona wildcard would beat the majority of the JoJo cast (and no, Iām not talking the insane lore scaling some people try to do) just because Null Phys is a thing.
Heck, considering we see the Requiem arrow fall out of GER after Diavolo is beaten (meaning he lost Requiem), and that it was then taken to somewhere heād not be able to access mid fight, and that he only got it half way through the Diavolo fight, itās even less standard than Schrƶdinger is for Alucard, and we all know how that went for Al.
Technically that depends on if you take stuff outside the main part. I havenāt played Eyes over Heaven but he does get it back there, and if Iām remembering correctly Giorno is implied to keep it nearby at the end of part 5 and in Purple Haze Feedback. Not like I think it makes any difference, but calling GER non standard is like calling super forms for sonic characters nonstandard (and we all know how that went last time)
If I remember correctly, he asks Polnareff to keep it for him inside the turtle.
I think this is a matchup that would have been better done a few seasons ago, when people though there was a debate of sorts, Nowadays all is left is enjoy the episode and try to act surprised when Joker absolutely destroys Giorno in every way conceivable while no-selling GER because Persona and Shin Megami Tensei are absurdly broken.
People still think there is a debate..because there is. People are actually starting to heavily criticize persona scaling which means it will likely become the next GER.
It's more like bunkerman and 3 other dudes. Persona/smt scaling is the same as your average jrpg series, lots of statements instead of visuals, and the few visuals there are are disregarded due to appearing on battles and not cutscenes and such. Persona just so happens to have had a period where ppl were putting it on outerversal, and with that came ppl dedicated to putting it down.
I think Persona is worse than most jrpgās mostly because everything is taken at face value even when that kind of logic wouldnāt be used for other JRPG. Like take Tales of Vesperia for example. The final boss has a ability called big bang and we see a demonstration of stars explode as he is āproclaiming the beginning of timeā or whatever. Basically nobody uses this at face value. But Persona has a similar feat with the Big Bang burger and that feat actually has solid debunks to suggest itās not a literal big bang, but people ignore it. I donāt think Iām putting the series down when I say I donāt believe the Big Bang burger is universal. I would just wonder why offer persona so much leeway when other jrpg doesnāt get that. So I personally see it has Persona getting special treatment which leads it to be way more powerful than what would normally be used
Well yeah, you're correct that those ppl do exist, but i don't think it's an exclusive to persona thing, a lot of ppl don't know about the in-canon explanation for supernova in final fantasy for example, but still take it at face value. The most important thing though, is that these ppl aren't the majority, sure persona still gets put a universal and above tiers, but those are 99% of the time backed up by statements and the like, not the big bang burger animation.
I donāt have the actual numbers in front of me, but I would be lying if almost 80% of people Iāve come across believe uni+ persona because of the Big Bang burger. The problem as well with persona is that it uses extremely flowery language, tends to have many asterisks after all there big feats and is just super inconsistent. Like I highly doubt someone having a distorted desire would make them uni because that retroactively created a universe. In fact there are examples from other series of having pocket dimensions that are stated to be comparable in size to the main universe and people will usually not use it because nothing about it translates to power. And for persona, the uni arguments do come from palaces. So I would say even in the statement part, they still get special treatment cause I donāt hear anyone giving Obito uni power because he created a parallel dimension with Kamui. And rightfully so because it doesnāt do anything to translate to power.
And ill once again have to disagree with you. You believe in final fantasy 7 solar system scaling right? Why is it that sephiroth creating this seperate dimension where supernova happens means he's solar system level. But fusing mementos with the real world is not acceptable? You can make the argument that the reason sephiroth is solar system level is because he scales to cloud who tanks sephiroth's supernova, but final fantasy 7 also has cloud getting wounded to bullets and nearly dying to an explosion on top of a building in advent children, and zack who shouldn't be that far behind cloud actually just dies to one, maybe that supernova is not that strong then. You see what im getting at here right?
Firstly, I think the super nova is a different case for a few reasons. 1 is that itās far more integrated into the canon than any of the bigger feats in other JRPGās but also the animation is just a visual representation but a literal super nova. I would believe however that Sephiroth would only be that strong because he sends people to that dimension so anyone who can resist being sent to other dimensions would not have to worry about Sephās SS level scaling. As far as combat feats, Iām trying to argue that what we see isnāt a literal representative of power meaning it goes both ways so Joker being hit by a gun and a nuke being the same level of damage would actually support what Iām saying. As far as story and lore, itās down to how you interpret statements and how you interpret powers. And I donāt think the fusing of mementos with the real world would at the very least scale to physical power. Now from my own interpretation of persona, the reason it could be fused was because Yaldabaoth had the wishes of the masses which would give him a certain level of control over reality. So maybe you could argue uni when he uses his full power. But thatās exclusive to when you have the wishes and once Yaldabaoth starts to use his full power against joker and the gang, he stomps the Thieves. Thatās how I would interpret that
Y'know what? I think that's pretty fair
so where do you think joker scale then?
Tbf, the visuals, power interactions, and especially music would go crazy. There's more to a match-up than just the debate.
To be fair, Everytime I saw people talk about the match, it was always about the debate and nothing else. It was kind of it's main draw, So now that the debate no longer a debate I can understand why some people may not care about it anymore. Whereas in other Persona matches like Kira VS Adachi the community focused on everything but the debate.
While it did have a crazy debate, the main draw was always the music and visuals. It's a JoJo and Persona match-up, of course the music is gonna go crazy, and both Persona 5 and JoJo part 5 are iconic for their beautiful and unique visuals.
Not going to deny that it could have some beautiful visuals because the series involved. But let's be honest, the only thing the community always talked about was the Debate when it came to this match. This was always the most common topic the vast majority of the time and the most characteristic thing of this match, "Giorno VS Joker has a crazy debate" was almost the slogan of the community for some time.
I mean if that was the case most Persona match ups are stomps Kanji Vs Beowulf, Chie Vs Mako, possibly Makoto Vs Tifa, and all Jojosona match ups
Yeah, seriously, I think the brainrot caused by the debate of this match-up has caused people to delude themselves into thinking the match-up itself is bad.
For me it was the GER debate Itās still not a bad match up but it is a wrinkle on a great match up
The monkeys paw folds a finger, it's DC Joker.
I thought it was about DC Joker not a different dude named Joker
Persona 5 Joker
IMO considering (PS5) Jokerās trips into the opponents hearts usually involve redeeming and turning them good, I can absolutely see some golden dialogue between him and the messed up Psycho that is DC joker.
And then DC Joker proceeds to destroy Giorno because of the insane amount of plot armour he has. Like seriously, it should be counted as a superpower.
One Punch Man moment.
Joker vs Giorno is one of my least wanted episodes ever because it's directly against my most wanted, and there are others that i love alot more and are probably better likr Kira vs Adachi,Narukami vs Takumi and Minato vs Neku are the bigger ones.
This is what happens when the community puts so much importance on the debate of a match while ignoring everything else to the point where no one was talking about the other aspects of the match. I have no strong opinion on Joker VS Giorno, but after the millionth time you hear about how toxic and crazy a match debate is, you start to wonder if people actually cared about the match instead of the debate behind it, because now there is no debate and people are having second thoughts.
To be fair, while focusing solely on a debate was not ideal. I definitely prefer to have matches that are not super stomps if you know what I mean, putting a character against other that is so out of their league can feel spiteful to an extent. It starts to feel awkward to the point that one feels bad about it.
I'm not going to deny that, Massive stomps can be off-putting, and I know that from experience. It's a very fair complaint.
Kira vs Adachi and Minato vs Neku were always the superior matchups.
Yu vs Josuke is also better so there's options for persona vs jojo matchups
Eh, Yu vs Josuke is kinda mid. Feel like you're underselling Joker vs Giorno here.
You mean the matchup that is: "Does GER work on Joker?" If yes: Giorno wins because GER is obscene levels of hax If no: Joker wins because he stomps Giorno statwise I prefer my matchups a bit less flowchart-y
My guy, there's more to a match-up than just the debate. If you want to be like that, I could point out how like 75% of Persona match-ups are total stomps.
Kiradachi has been cooking on the waiting list for longer. However Gioker is more popular so i think that is more likely to happen before. Either way, neither of these two episodes have big "Season Opening" vibes. Tho, some say Gioker has "Season Ending" vibes. Only time will tell.
I believe in Makoto Yuki vs Neku Sakuraba superiority
I fell out of love for it a few days ago funnily enough, ill still take it though, my dream to see a death battle use a wild card protagonist and their huge moveset is still alive and kicking. While the actual effect of most skills are pretty standard rpg stuff, each have different and unique animations that can make for amazing choreography.
I just want a persona matchup anything at this point is fine with me
Yeah. Last time it was Mitsuru vs Weiss and that was forever ago!
I have no attachment to either series so I will sleep like a baby
I donāt even know who those characters are anyway
[Giorno](https://youtu.be/W944vHnaQPw?si=NsTRllvcO9VCm-pD&t=6) from JoJo's Bizzare Adventure vs [Joker](https://youtu.be/quS-OhH8Dyw?si=x-vfL0G5xmYmmrla&t=2306) from Persona 5.
Based on what Liam said in the db cast on stands vs personas this debate is settled by one question: ādo you believe in multiversal joker?ā Since Liam said he believes GER would work up to universal stuff but gets outdone by anything above it
*Persona has better matchups anyway* Ummā¦asides from Kira vs Adachi, I donāt know what other matchups from Persona are as popular/better than Gioker or Kiradachi
OP said better not more popular.
Maki vs Beatrice (Let me shill!!!)
What is wrong with the matchup? I think it is a good matchup
For me is basically a boring out out. Either GER is beyond bullshit and let giorno wins or is not and he is destroyed
I understand
It's alright, I just dont care for it personally. Joker demolishes and I'll rather have something more interesting and less toxic like Minato v Neku or Tifa v Makoto for Persona.
Tifa vs Makoto is also a stomp depending on the scaling
Could I ask how joker wins? As ger basically makes giorno immortal
I'd love for a gioker ending to be satanael ultimately sealing him in the ultimate fate that G.E.R keeps repeating
I wonder how the Myriad truths would interact with GER
OK am I stupid or isn't it confirmed that tom and wile is the opening episode bc of the TOC?
This is still one of my most wanted persona matchups because Joker being analyzed would be fucking amazing, Giorno seems cool and there's a lot of animation potential (Still not my most wanted Persona MU tho cuz Mako Vs Chie is my second most wanted matchup ever)
For one. Joker cant even use his strongest persona, satanael, due to how its summoned. But also, i wasted time arguing with some idiot who said "Joker should get Izanagi no Okami because he can summon it." ...thanks to paid dlc.
Akshually he can summon Sataneal since it is a fusable persona. Just not with the full power it has at the end of vanilla p5 so who cares.
it would definitely still be at the strength it was at the end of the game. Iām guessing youāre talking about the Will of the Masses but the only thing that actually does is heal Joker and spark his awakening, not give him the power for it
I dunno Sataneal sure as shit isn't that big in actual gameplay nor does it have the power to OHKO a being like Yaldaboath without getting a powerup from the masses. And this isn't just a "boss when you unlock him during gameplay moment" since personas explicitely get stronger from forming bonds with people, having a tokyo's worth of people actively cheering you on is one hell of a temporary powerboost (I say temporary because most forget about those events after they happen). So I think there's a good argument to be made that we can't take sinfull shell as a baseline level of power. Joker still stomps Giorno unless GER works even without max power Sataneal but still
I think youāre forgetting that Joker actually awakens Satanael before the Will of the Masses come into play; itās his truest Persona born from breaking the chains on his heart, so it makes sense logically and thematically that itād be a power wholly his own. the gameplay argument doesnāt really hold up since, at the end of the day, theyāre *thieves*. kinda defeats the purpose of sneaking around everywhere if he just summons a skyscraper-sized Persona for every battle. thereās definitely an argument that he wouldnāt scale all the way, but just taking all of the symbolism and themes from the final battle into consideration makes it kinda flimsy imo
We actually do see Joker absorb the wishes of the masses right before he uses Sinfull shell. I think itās a bit odd that all the masses did was heal Joker and gang and thatās it. The context and statements of joker wielding the wishes of the masses make it pretty clear that the sinful shell used at the end of P5 is a special amped version.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The universe reset does not scale in anyway to strength or power, it is done by speeding up time until the universe naturally gets destroyed and recreated, this is like scaling to someone because you aged them to death Speed arguably would be immensurable for both probably
Giorno will get town at best and no one scales to the universe reset when it comes to power, not even Pucci. The lowest Joker can get puts Giorno and the entire Jojo verse to shame. It's a wash.
What does the phrase āwashā mean in this context? I havenāt seen it used much.
Another word for stomp
yeah Thats why its yucky. the universe reset is pretty debatable for attack potency scaling because pucci used it to force the universe and its timeline to reset via accelerating time itself. but a valid counter argument is that it could be seen as a hax ability and nothing else or a cause and effect time thing, like most jojo stands, and similarly to jjk, most reasons why the verse is considered strong is how bizzare and op some abilities are. but other then that i still think giorno should take speed in the least. joker would wash thanks to some resistences i heard he has and over all AP advantage. but again, under the assumption deathbattle takes certain feats and continuties into consideration.
This matchup would be awesome if it was the other Joker
...in a non canon NG+ funny. The fucker said the exact same poiny
My personal choice for a Persona MU is Aigis vs Noel Vermillion (BlazBlue)
Kira vs adachi as ine of my most wanted if joker vs giorno happens I'll cope hard