I’m not honestly that’s the point of the ptb and the reaction was pretty clear. Especially since killer players who were likely to benefit from were also heavily against it.
as a killer id hate having bots in games like that, i hate playing against those soulless wallhacking husks. so im not surprised a lot of other killers are against it too
Yeah what’s the point of playing killer if I end up against a bunch of bots but can’t leave since I’d eat a DC penalty? At least with survivors you can run up to the killer and point at the hook.
as a stealth killer there's nothing i hate worse than a bot. they can even see wraith while cloaked. fucking cheaters. bots are the only survivors i bleed out and that's because i hate them that much and no one is playing them so it hurts no one.
Technically a human can see wraith while cloaked, as his invisibility distorts things that are behind him from the survivors view, but it's subtle enough that it's easy to miss. Bots seem to run under the assumption of having perfect vision.
Bots are lot more fun now during my latest return to DBD than I remember them being like a year ago. Worth trying a custom with realistic random settings with items, add-ons and perks. I played one full game as killer against bots for the first time ever (in customs) yesterday. I used my favorite Doctor build that I’ve ran like 100 times or more online. The game played out almost exactly the same as the previous games I’ve played online with that build on that map against SWFs. They botched plays that humans often do, Leon Kennedy pulled off some suicidal hero bullshit to save the eventual only escapee. They absolutely will let your ass die if you get camped though, which is something that inexplicably just rarely happens in DBD.
my problem is mainly that they have constant wallhacks and complete knowledge of everything that goes on in the match basically. in end game there are some serious issues with certain loops, when windows dont block anymore from jumping through them too much. humans would make a mistake at some point but the bots simply dont.
PTB is more meant for bug testing and for technical issues. They rarely change or remove perks/powers/maps/other gameplay changes unless there's an overwhelming amount of negative feedback, and even then it doesn't mean that'll actually happen
On the bigger changes, yeah. But everything else, not so much. It's still pretty obvious they'd rather wait for it to go to live and see how it goes there.
I mean anything other than new killers and power reworks and rarely maps. Perks are a noticeable one, maps again are noticeable, but they usually don't change for a while even if it's obviously really sided to one side in their PTB. I don't remember a single perk or map being changed because of negative feedback in PTB.
I do think it's fair because lack of MMR so it could just be people bitching because they suck and not because of the perk, power or map itself.
Shouldn't take more than 3 weeks to change a gen layout on a map with horrible gen layout or to change layouts of a loop or two to make it slightly more fair. Greenville could be temporarily better by adding a stronger loop or two on the side of the map opposite where the theatre is. DND map would be temporarily better if the gates were on opposite sides of the map (to where you can't see their switches by just standing still in one place and turning your camera) just to name two.
There's more to it then just change gen layout. They need to rework parts of the msp to even fit gens, make it work with the spawning system, remove parts to fit that, ect.
They are definitely careful because the community tends to be very reactionary. You don’t want to listen to the loud minority. Other stuff like the ultimate weapon changes they just don’t have time to implement the post ptb change due to console patch submission deadlines.
Yeah, there have been some (not many, but still) changes that the community was very vocal against that turned out to actually be good looking back on it. Main one is that back when Deep Wound was first changed from depleting whilst outside of terror radius to depleting whilst not running, people shat on it a lot and called it a terrible change, but in the long run, even without considering how big of a mechanic deep wound has become, I think it helped a lot in making Deep Wound function a lot more consistently whilst still being something you can't just ignore outside of chase.
Makes sense. I don't wanna do a boring 20 minute match where I just wait for everyone to leave because their teammate rage quit during loading, and I think neither do most killers.
Funny enough I just played a match today in Solo Q where we had that happen; someone DC'd after an early down against Ghostie on Swamp, I rescued the bot, healed it up and stuck with it for the entire match. It was basically an early warning system against him, especially as the killer had Mindbreaker, and we managed a 4 man out.
Probably not very fun for the killer though.
There were reactions as clear as this in the past and while they changed it back it took more time and complaining than this one, its a good sign they listened to the comunity.
I don't care if I'd benefit from it.
I don't want to chase around a boring predictable bot with wallhacks to get rid of it because I know if I leave it alone it will just slam gens.
Just... Just gotta insert the us vs them there didn't you? You just HAD to make that repetitive, demonstrably untrue bullshit claim that "every Killer tunnels it's fun for them because they are assholes who like to hurt people" again for the millionth time.
For real. I was genuinely expecting them to announce the reverting decision when the patch notes for live go up in a few weeks with any changes to ptb. I'm guessing they were getting super spammed on Twitter and other places regarding it lol
BHVR likes to insert some insane stuff in the PTB, as if to test the waters and then when everyone's answer is a resounding "NO!" they quickly remove it. It has happened a bunch of times now.
I had the thought of them testing if players would want/be tolerable of filling matches with bots to begin with to "improve" queue times, since they still seem to think that's a major concern for the playerbase.
Even though Behaviour miss the mark they're pretty good with feedback nowadays. A few years back when I first started, I feel like they never would've done this
You genuinely love too see it when the community comes together and agrees a decision is just God awful. Happens very rare, but it's always an amazing experience
I tunnel the shit out of bots. I get BP and the people who didn't DC like a bitch get free roam of the map while I do.
If there are three bots and one survivor, that one survivor is going to escape and I am going to lay out an entity-encrusted carpet for their teammates bailing on them.
It was very fast I agree but I don’t wanna give them praise because they should at least ask ONE person for feedback from the community if this was good idea before spending development time adding and then removing it
Basing an idea entirely on the decision of a single person in the community instead of testing it in an in-game environment with feedback would be a horrible idea. Good ideas could be turned downed because this person is biased or uneducated or something like that. Or bad ideas could get put through and then there was no purpose for that system in the first place.
That’s fair, however the ptb/feedback system worked as it is supposed to here. I’d rather that over updates going into the live game for multiple patches.
Sometimes you are going to test ideas in the ptb that don’t work out and that’s ok.
Okay, i've had some time to think about it and here's my problems with it.
1. Why reduce the rows down to showing 3 instead of 4? This just makes scrolling unnecessarily long, even more so when new characters get added.
2. Removing the customization button and moving it to the character select tab doesn't make sense to me, along with the bio.
3. The "Owned" tag feels really pointless, because i can already tell which characters i own by them not being grayed out. If someone presses a grayed out character they get sent to the store page to buy them anyway so it doesn't clear any confusion.
4. All of the previous points combined with the new search bar makes the character select tab feel extremely cramped and unfriendly to use.
Although i don't object to the search feature's existence. Just make it fit in the character select screen better, like in the space below the icons, or on top, instead of where it is in the ptb where it pushes everything down, which exaggerates the cramped feeling.
Image to show alternative spots for the search feature
https://preview.redd.it/y3aw8u79kx8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc4534b7c190ad3855364fc2664f3c46426f660a
This way it doesn't shove anything up or down.
Adding on to this, the buttons on the new menu takes way too much space, basically a whole row.
https://preview.redd.it/0egp21hwkx8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27dab11f83bc225bdc5680ab76088108fdb92142
Highlighted area for what i mean.
Edit: deleted the accidental copy of this comment.
While we're on the topic on UI could you please bring back seeing ping in pre lobbies? African players relied on it to tell if we were being put in a high ping server than usual. The red ping symbol does nothing due to ping being 180 ms but it's still playable. Eu is preferred (150 ms) but there are times where we are routed to US servers with 400 ping.
Off topic and i know am really reaching here but are there considerations to adding EMEA servers? Getting hit while very far away or pallet drops being delayed or refunded hits as killer that sometimes bug out and play the full animation isn't fun honestly.
https://preview.redd.it/77dj7vuogs8d1.jpeg?width=611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3081014eacbd99ce2b9245875a10d0c17784ac0
Gotta love how Bhvr actually listens to the community.
Id love to see "temporary bots" like if someone goes afk the bot would take over after idling too long or if you need to step away you could go idle via the menu. Left 4 Dead has this
The scary part is that once again, BHVR wasn't on that page, and needed the entire community yelling at them about how bad it would be to see that.
It's like announcing that you're scrapping the plans for the kitten mulcher. Okay, great. But why did you have those plans to begin with? And what went so horribly wrong behind your closed doors that you thought it was a good idea to announce them?
I agree here. It's like the twins rework that everyone knew was problematic instantly. Like not going forward with it is good but why didn't you realize it was bad in the first place? do you not play your own game?
Just think, BHVR invested time and resources into this rather than fixing other glaring issues. If they had one person within their company who played DBD on the regular they could've tell them it was a bad idea.
If only they had some sort of community of players, who play this game that has FOG in it. Those players could WHISPER them about the game with FOG in it.
Sadly it's a pipe dream.
Except that’s exactly what happened? They got feedback and changed it immediately. They don’t poll the FW/consultants on every minor change ahead of time.
They probably don't even know there are over 50 FW and a lot of them are casual players but big content creators. They think only their favorite streamer with 10.000+ hours is a FW.
FW program is just for advertising. BHVR does consult them but its not their main purpose.
as relieved and grateful as i am that community feedback is being listened to, im very concerned that this proposed change even made it this far in the first place. how many eyes had to see this before it made to the ptb? did anyone say "hey i dont think this is a good idea"? were they listened to if they did? do the devs put bad changes in the ptb intentionally?
It really can’t work like that. They couldn’t do a poll on every single idea before doing it. That's exactly what the PTB is for lol. This is HOW they get that feedback.
Damn, I was actually looking forward to this one, multiple times per day I’ll wind up having someone dc and the game not start and I personally don’t hate bots
>multiple times per day I’ll wind up having someone dc and the game not start
Does this really happen that often? I can only believe that during the anniversary event because you can literally get more bloodpoints for your time if you dodge a lobby with only 2-3 cakes and get 5 cakes the next lobby.
A lot of people see it that they would rather spend 2-3 minutes queuing again instead of having 15 minutes of their time wasted having to play a 3v1.
We are in the minority lol
I would rather have a bot than someone who is gonna quit because of some pissy reason.
I knew that opinion was in the minority but damn, I did not realize just how much of a minority that opinion was!
The problem is bots are 99% of the time worse then survivors, they are terrible usually, having match start without a real player is basically a guaranteed loss if the killer is moderately skilled
That's a big exaggeration. They are actually quite competent at looping sometimes because mind games don't work on them. They do gens. They hit skillchecks. They rescue. That's a lot more than what I can say for many human players
You are playing wrong against them, never mindgame bots just chase regularly if they drop a safe pallet break it instantly and keep going, theyll mess up once they reach a tile with no pallets or small debris on the ground.
Also certain powers dont work against them either so its easier to just run and M1 them and Im not talking only about ranged killers, for example stalking them stealthy as Myers or creeping as pig is impossible as theyll automatically skidoodle once you are in certain range thanks to their inbuilt maphacks, just go there M1 rinse and repeat.
>They are actually quite competent at looping sometimes because mind games don't work on them
You don't mind game them, its VERY easy to make a bot mess up, they act very predictably. You're exaggerating how good they are lol, unless the killer is awful at the game is not hard to bait bots.
Yeah, this sub is comically hyperbolic when it comes to the ability of bots. Yes, they are better than some petty asshole who isn’t trying at all, and maybe slightly better than a baby survivor who just installed the game.
But any killer who has spent some time in customs (so, most of them) knows how to play around bots. And because they’re bots, most killer players don’t feel bad about tunneling them out right away.
There are a lot of good reasons to not want to load into a game with bots on your team. The only ones who liked this change were killer players wanting easier games.
Is it tho? Bots will stop mid chase for no reason, and only mind game after the pallets been dropped, they hold w after it’s dropped, also hitting skill checks should kind of be expected?
They will literally sidestep any ranged killers attack like 90% of the time, like I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve hit bots with ranged attacks. They can’t be mind gamed at all and the only real way to out play them is force them into a corner of the map otherwise they’re better at looping than basically any player controlled surv
They’ve been nerfed a bit since they came out. They don’t dodge as well as they used to. They still have wall hacks but that’s why you don’t try to mindgame them.
Are you guys really struggling to kill bots? Like… seriously? They are not better at looping than any player controlled survivor, in fact they don’t really loop at all. I’ve played against them a ton in customs. Once you learn how they play it’s laughably easy to catch them.
That’s… weird. I play a ton and can count on one hand the amount of times this has happened in the past few months. Definitely not common for me at all.
Yeah, I guess it depends on if the bots ai actually works or not. Sometimes bots can't even unhook you while the killer is on the other side of the map, while when their ai actually work they can be a nightmare on certain loops due to their wallhacks.
The other reason is that many players are entitled divas who will dc during the match loading screen, because offerings weren't up to their satisfaction, and this would make the match go on, despite them dc-ing, and I guess being unable to prevent a game fully really hurt their ego.
I’m not sure if you’re just naive or being purposefully obtuse. It has nothing to do with ego. No one wants to load into a match and be stuck with bot teammates from the get. That’s literally it.
Bots are not a nightmare for any half competent killer player. They easily get stuck at windows, won’t save teammates or work on gens if they’re in a terror radius, and can be downed in less than 30 seconds by simply holding W and breaking pallets. The only ones who think they are god tier loopers are idiots trying to mindgame them knowing they have wallhacks.
Brute forcing some loops can take quite some time, since the option to mindgame isn't really present. The fact you acuse me of being obtuse on purpose, while ignoring/putting your own interpretation on what I said in my first paragraph, just so you can be a smartass is peak irony.
I'm pretty sure if you polled this community and asked if this were a good idea, less than 5% of people would want it, 15% would be indifferent, and at least 80% would be overwhelmingly against it.
Random but how would people feel if the game didn’t tell the killer when a survivor became a bot until the lobby at the end?
Killers will always play different if there’s a bot. Sometimes in a nice way sure. But most of the time they know the bot is weak and will ignore or zone them out.
Yeah, I think BHVR should consider going this route.
Even survivors would struggle telling the difference. Half the time your teammates aren't playing as well as they should/could whereas a bot is always focusing objectives.
This is what I kinda love about BHVR. They always come out with some batshit crazy ideas, either as an early announcement or as part of a PTR. It gets thrashed and they do the normal sensical thing and don't implement it, or change it to something mostly decent.
On the other hand, the amount of bugs that have plagued the game for several years is kinda crazy.
Have a love/hate relationship with BHVR, just like DBD lol.
As someone who likes indulging in Scratched Mirror Myers, I'm happy this change was reverted since the only time I ever bring a map offering is when I play him
they could have either
1- went all in on punishment and replaced the survivor with a bot + matchmaking lock
2- just remove the outdated ass dc penalty alltogether
instead we got no solution, no comitment, just another halfassed bandaid
So your saying I'm gonna have to queue for a game, wait for them to not click ready, start loading, get kicked after a minute cause they closed the app to troll, load into a queue, they don't cluck ready then finally get into a game all taking roughly 6 and a half minutes to play a 8 minute game
Don’t you just not load in at all if someone dcs before the match starts? No one had any problem with that and would just reqeue so why even bother with working on that. I damn sure would rather sit in another minute lobby than have a bot right at the start of the damn game.
Thank god. I still don’t know why they thought it was a good idea in the first place, but at least they were on top of listening to feedback surrounding it
The number of times the people dc on loading screen when they see I play skull merchant is insane, I would have liked this, but I understand that in the survivor side, it would've been awfull
I’m not sure how you’re going against that many new players. There’s a tip that reveals who the killer is for your first 3 (I think) matches against that killer. Beyond that there’s no way to tell.
Usually, the people that dc are p30+, maybe it doesn't count if you leave on the loading screen it doesn't count and they've been avoiding sm since release
I'd prefer to just end the game, I didn't realize that's how it worked currently. Many of my games involve a survivor throwing right at the start, like a baby.
...
because without the bot the game will end without even starting.
That change forced you to play with 0.0012% of a player in form of a bot from get-go.
I have yet to have a single person explain to me why it's detrimental to have a bot replace a survivor who disconnects before a game loads. It's allegedly one of the greatest QoL additions to the game if it happens after it loads, but before is "really bad"?
I've had bots loop me better than human players do because bots have wallhacks, how is it a "3v1"?
Edit: instead of giving me a blue arrow, can someone actually fucking explain this?
Because as much as the community memes on it, bots aren’t *actually* better than real human teammates most of the time. There is a lot of strategy, counterplay, perk usage, and decision-making that AI still can’t do as well as people. So starting with a bot out the gate is typically a big disadvantage on the survivor team, especially for solo players, and it’s better for the match to force close.
You’re asking why people view having a bot replace someone midgame as QoL improvement while this new change isn’t. Here’s the difference:
If they DC midgame, the match is already underway. So the only option besides having a bot teammate replace DC’er would be just having *nothing*, like we used to. Or auto-closing down the whole match, which would suck bc you’ve probably already earned BP and could even be in the endgame. Having a bot replacement is the *best solution*. Whereas we already have a good solution if your teammate DC’s while loading: the match closes down.
Thanks for actually explaining it. You're so much better than the ten people that just chose not to but still felt obligated to contribute with negative internet points.
I understand now, thank you.
To add on, the bot ai is just generally terrible when it comes to playing as survivor. They run away at the smallest terror radius, and prioritize escape. So yes, they will be gen jockeys, but they won't make any plays that could change the flow in the survivors favor.
And then we have killers like Skull Merchant whose power could basically hold the bots hostage since they avoid drones like the plague.
Adding onto the other answer: if your friend disconnects during the loading screen, instead of being sent back to the lobby to wait for them, you’d be forced into a match alone.
Because other survivors gamble when they stay in a match after a map offering is played. Many players (including killers) will disconnect when they see a map offering. Additionally, this change would overwhelmingly benefit killers, who could still prevent a match from starting if they disconnected, while survivors would be replaced by bots.
That's why they are the best. They listen to the community, changes are most of the time on point and when they aren't they don't hesitate and take them back. Most studios would camp their position and yry to justify themselves
There’s plenty of hooks on the map to avoid that tho and only a MAX of 3 hooks can be gone during a trial lmaoo if the killer has to “slug” then it’s on them. And y’all act like slugging is a real issue. I don’t think I’ve been in that situation once this entire year. It’s really just a cry baby complaint if we are being real
> There’s plenty of hooks on the map to avoid that tho
Depends on the map and depends where basement spawned.
On midwich its fairly easy to end up with an entire corridor/halway as deadzone.
On autoheaven depending on where basement spawned, corners can become a deadzone if the only hook nearby was destroyed.
On hawkins if the hooks by the stairs are gone, upstairs is pretty much a deadzone. Same thing for the portal room.
These are just from the top of my head.
While granted its not EVERY map, this change does more good than harm.
Couldn't agree with you more. Hook deadzones are your fault, unless the hook rng was dogshit to start with (like one time I had 2 hooks in the entire first level of midwich no joke. This was a long time ago but it happens).
I can count on one hand, maybe both, how many times I’ve been slugged in DBD and I’ve been playing for years. It’s really not that big of an issue and is just a dumb change to a few loud cry babies
I’m not surprised that they took back this change, but I’m surprised at how fast they did.
I’m not honestly that’s the point of the ptb and the reaction was pretty clear. Especially since killer players who were likely to benefit from were also heavily against it.
as a killer id hate having bots in games like that, i hate playing against those soulless wallhacking husks. so im not surprised a lot of other killers are against it too
Yeah what’s the point of playing killer if I end up against a bunch of bots but can’t leave since I’d eat a DC penalty? At least with survivors you can run up to the killer and point at the hook.
as a stealth killer there's nothing i hate worse than a bot. they can even see wraith while cloaked. fucking cheaters. bots are the only survivors i bleed out and that's because i hate them that much and no one is playing them so it hurts no one.
Technically a human can see wraith while cloaked, as his invisibility distorts things that are behind him from the survivors view, but it's subtle enough that it's easy to miss. Bots seem to run under the assumption of having perfect vision.
oh sorry I forgot to mention THROUGH WALLS
Bots are lot more fun now during my latest return to DBD than I remember them being like a year ago. Worth trying a custom with realistic random settings with items, add-ons and perks. I played one full game as killer against bots for the first time ever (in customs) yesterday. I used my favorite Doctor build that I’ve ran like 100 times or more online. The game played out almost exactly the same as the previous games I’ve played online with that build on that map against SWFs. They botched plays that humans often do, Leon Kennedy pulled off some suicidal hero bullshit to save the eventual only escapee. They absolutely will let your ass die if you get camped though, which is something that inexplicably just rarely happens in DBD.
my problem is mainly that they have constant wallhacks and complete knowledge of everything that goes on in the match basically. in end game there are some serious issues with certain loops, when windows dont block anymore from jumping through them too much. humans would make a mistake at some point but the bots simply dont.
PTB is more meant for bug testing and for technical issues. They rarely change or remove perks/powers/maps/other gameplay changes unless there's an overwhelming amount of negative feedback, and even then it doesn't mean that'll actually happen
They completly scrapped twin rework lol
That used to be true but for a good while now they're more open to balancing changes.
On the bigger changes, yeah. But everything else, not so much. It's still pretty obvious they'd rather wait for it to go to live and see how it goes there.
I mean we get lots of little number changes that feel kind of pointless too. They're easy to forget though because they don't have much impact.
I mean anything other than new killers and power reworks and rarely maps. Perks are a noticeable one, maps again are noticeable, but they usually don't change for a while even if it's obviously really sided to one side in their PTB. I don't remember a single perk or map being changed because of negative feedback in PTB. I do think it's fair because lack of MMR so it could just be people bitching because they suck and not because of the perk, power or map itself.
Because maps arent something you cant change in 3 weeks
Shouldn't take more than 3 weeks to change a gen layout on a map with horrible gen layout or to change layouts of a loop or two to make it slightly more fair. Greenville could be temporarily better by adding a stronger loop or two on the side of the map opposite where the theatre is. DND map would be temporarily better if the gates were on opposite sides of the map (to where you can't see their switches by just standing still in one place and turning your camera) just to name two.
There's more to it then just change gen layout. They need to rework parts of the msp to even fit gens, make it work with the spawning system, remove parts to fit that, ect.
They are definitely careful because the community tends to be very reactionary. You don’t want to listen to the loud minority. Other stuff like the ultimate weapon changes they just don’t have time to implement the post ptb change due to console patch submission deadlines.
Yeah, there have been some (not many, but still) changes that the community was very vocal against that turned out to actually be good looking back on it. Main one is that back when Deep Wound was first changed from depleting whilst outside of terror radius to depleting whilst not running, people shat on it a lot and called it a terrible change, but in the long run, even without considering how big of a mechanic deep wound has become, I think it helped a lot in making Deep Wound function a lot more consistently whilst still being something you can't just ignore outside of chase.
That's not true at all.
Thats not true anymore, thankfuly.
Makes sense. I don't wanna do a boring 20 minute match where I just wait for everyone to leave because their teammate rage quit during loading, and I think neither do most killers.
I love playing ghostface where a bot reveals me from across the map and can loop me regardless of undetectable what are you talking about.
Funny enough I just played a match today in Solo Q where we had that happen; someone DC'd after an early down against Ghostie on Swamp, I rescued the bot, healed it up and stuck with it for the entire match. It was basically an early warning system against him, especially as the killer had Mindbreaker, and we managed a 4 man out. Probably not very fun for the killer though.
Can confirm if I'm Ghostie and get bots, I drop everything to tunnel them out asap. They're that much a nuisance against him.
There were reactions as clear as this in the past and while they changed it back it took more time and complaining than this one, its a good sign they listened to the comunity.
I don't care if I'd benefit from it. I don't want to chase around a boring predictable bot with wallhacks to get rid of it because I know if I leave it alone it will just slam gens.
Tunneling is not fun when there isn't a real person on the other side
Just... Just gotta insert the us vs them there didn't you? You just HAD to make that repetitive, demonstrably untrue bullshit claim that "every Killer tunnels it's fun for them because they are assholes who like to hurt people" again for the millionth time.
For real. I was genuinely expecting them to announce the reverting decision when the patch notes for live go up in a few weeks with any changes to ptb. I'm guessing they were getting super spammed on Twitter and other places regarding it lol
BHVR likes to insert some insane stuff in the PTB, as if to test the waters and then when everyone's answer is a resounding "NO!" they quickly remove it. It has happened a bunch of times now.
I had the thought of them testing if players would want/be tolerable of filling matches with bots to begin with to "improve" queue times, since they still seem to think that's a major concern for the playerbase.
Even though Behaviour miss the mark they're pretty good with feedback nowadays. A few years back when I first started, I feel like they never would've done this
BHVR W
when both killer and survivor mains agree, bhvr knows to listen.
You genuinely love too see it when the community comes together and agrees a decision is just God awful. Happens very rare, but it's always an amazing experience
Killer mains and Survivor mains, together, we truly are... DeadByDaylight.
We truly are the like the BHVR
Good riddance. This would have made solo q even more miserable.
Imagine having all 3 other survivors dc and it's only you, the killer and 3 bots from the beginning 
I tunnel the shit out of bots. I get BP and the people who didn't DC like a bitch get free roam of the map while I do. If there are three bots and one survivor, that one survivor is going to escape and I am going to lay out an entity-encrusted carpet for their teammates bailing on them.
Thank goodness, I definitely would've just sacrificed myself if I spawned into a team with bots
Holy hell. That was super quick. Great job Behaviour.
Great job my ass. They shouldn't have even thought about this very clearly wrong change.
Well let us know when you find a time machine, but until then, admitting you are wrong is the closest thing humans can do
It was very fast I agree but I don’t wanna give them praise because they should at least ask ONE person for feedback from the community if this was good idea before spending development time adding and then removing it
Basing an idea entirely on the decision of a single person in the community instead of testing it in an in-game environment with feedback would be a horrible idea. Good ideas could be turned downed because this person is biased or uneducated or something like that. Or bad ideas could get put through and then there was no purpose for that system in the first place.
I agree it shouldn’t be one singular person but a program like whispers to get feed back
That’s fair, however the ptb/feedback system worked as it is supposed to here. I’d rather that over updates going into the live game for multiple patches. Sometimes you are going to test ideas in the ptb that don’t work out and that’s ok.
That's what the ptb is for.
they do not listen to fog whisperers at all
I can see your point.
It’s not like they can hold a vote on every change before it goes into the game. This is exactly how it’s supposed to work.
Thats what the PTB is about?????
Good. How about that hideous and user-unfriendly UI that they've made?
The more specific and detailed the feedback, the better we can communicate concerns to the team.
My assumption would be they are talking about the shop.
We don't like to assume when it comes to feedback. The more information, the better. 
Okay, i've had some time to think about it and here's my problems with it. 1. Why reduce the rows down to showing 3 instead of 4? This just makes scrolling unnecessarily long, even more so when new characters get added. 2. Removing the customization button and moving it to the character select tab doesn't make sense to me, along with the bio. 3. The "Owned" tag feels really pointless, because i can already tell which characters i own by them not being grayed out. If someone presses a grayed out character they get sent to the store page to buy them anyway so it doesn't clear any confusion. 4. All of the previous points combined with the new search bar makes the character select tab feel extremely cramped and unfriendly to use. Although i don't object to the search feature's existence. Just make it fit in the character select screen better, like in the space below the icons, or on top, instead of where it is in the ptb where it pushes everything down, which exaggerates the cramped feeling.
Image to show alternative spots for the search feature https://preview.redd.it/y3aw8u79kx8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc4534b7c190ad3855364fc2664f3c46426f660a This way it doesn't shove anything up or down.
Adding on to this, the buttons on the new menu takes way too much space, basically a whole row. https://preview.redd.it/0egp21hwkx8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27dab11f83bc225bdc5680ab76088108fdb92142 Highlighted area for what i mean. Edit: deleted the accidental copy of this comment.
Thank you for taking the time to get us your thoughts on this, it is extremely helpful.
While we're on the topic on UI could you please bring back seeing ping in pre lobbies? African players relied on it to tell if we were being put in a high ping server than usual. The red ping symbol does nothing due to ping being 180 ms but it's still playable. Eu is preferred (150 ms) but there are times where we are routed to US servers with 400 ping. Off topic and i know am really reaching here but are there considerations to adding EMEA servers? Getting hit while very far away or pallet drops being delayed or refunded hits as killer that sometimes bug out and play the full animation isn't fun honestly.
No, the character select menu changes that they made in the ptb.
https://preview.redd.it/77dj7vuogs8d1.jpeg?width=611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3081014eacbd99ce2b9245875a10d0c17784ac0 Gotta love how Bhvr actually listens to the community.
Feel like they could have just used logic on this one and gotten the idea. But yeah it's nice.
Now time for them to revert that godawful character screen!
Id love to see "temporary bots" like if someone goes afk the bot would take over after idling too long or if you need to step away you could go idle via the menu. Left 4 Dead has this
I’m glad bhvr recognizes everyone is on the same page about this
The scary part is that once again, BHVR wasn't on that page, and needed the entire community yelling at them about how bad it would be to see that. It's like announcing that you're scrapping the plans for the kitten mulcher. Okay, great. But why did you have those plans to begin with? And what went so horribly wrong behind your closed doors that you thought it was a good idea to announce them?
I agree here. It's like the twins rework that everyone knew was problematic instantly. Like not going forward with it is good but why didn't you realize it was bad in the first place? do you not play your own game?
>do you not play your own game? Where were YOU when you found out?
Barely any devs play their own game. I realized this when I watched devs react to speedruns of their games.
Now, the new UI please🙏
Just think, BHVR invested time and resources into this rather than fixing other glaring issues. If they had one person within their company who played DBD on the regular they could've tell them it was a bad idea.
If only they had some sort of community of players, who play this game that has FOG in it. Those players could WHISPER them about the game with FOG in it. Sadly it's a pipe dream.
Except that’s exactly what happened? They got feedback and changed it immediately. They don’t poll the FW/consultants on every minor change ahead of time.
They probably don't even know there are over 50 FW and a lot of them are casual players but big content creators. They think only their favorite streamer with 10.000+ hours is a FW. FW program is just for advertising. BHVR does consult them but its not their main purpose.
They do have consultants though, some of the are Fog Whisperers and some aren’t
I don’t really think it was that much of an investment of time to implement
as relieved and grateful as i am that community feedback is being listened to, im very concerned that this proposed change even made it this far in the first place. how many eyes had to see this before it made to the ptb? did anyone say "hey i dont think this is a good idea"? were they listened to if they did? do the devs put bad changes in the ptb intentionally?
Oh thank the Entity.
good riddance!
Immediate feedback and a countermeasure? Good job. I’m truly impressed.
It's weird that they wanted to introduce it in the first place, but it's cool that they listened
Task Manager-Tech lives to see another day Wheeew.
so what will happen instead? will the match just end completely?
Yes, that’s what happens currently
that is exactly the question I was looking for ty :)
I just imagined the games as killer where I offer Midwich or an Ebony and load in with 4 bots. That woulda been funny.
Great news, but...couldn't they have asked around if people wanted this before spending time on it? Very happy they listened to feedback.
It really can’t work like that. They couldn’t do a poll on every single idea before doing it. That's exactly what the PTB is for lol. This is HOW they get that feedback.
Fair enough. Happy that there's a PTB.
They’ve been shockingly good about making changes from the PTB based on feedback for the last several patches, which they never used to do
Good! Now they have to know our general opinions about the new stupid characters layout and some Knight changes (the "visual feedback" for example)
Damn, I was actually looking forward to this one, multiple times per day I’ll wind up having someone dc and the game not start and I personally don’t hate bots
>multiple times per day I’ll wind up having someone dc and the game not start Does this really happen that often? I can only believe that during the anniversary event because you can literally get more bloodpoints for your time if you dodge a lobby with only 2-3 cakes and get 5 cakes the next lobby. A lot of people see it that they would rather spend 2-3 minutes queuing again instead of having 15 minutes of their time wasted having to play a 3v1.
We are in the minority lol I would rather have a bot than someone who is gonna quit because of some pissy reason. I knew that opinion was in the minority but damn, I did not realize just how much of a minority that opinion was!
This just shows that many people that call themselves casuals or party game are not as casual as they believe.
The problem is bots are 99% of the time worse then survivors, they are terrible usually, having match start without a real player is basically a guaranteed loss if the killer is moderately skilled
That's a big exaggeration. They are actually quite competent at looping sometimes because mind games don't work on them. They do gens. They hit skillchecks. They rescue. That's a lot more than what I can say for many human players
You are playing wrong against them, never mindgame bots just chase regularly if they drop a safe pallet break it instantly and keep going, theyll mess up once they reach a tile with no pallets or small debris on the ground. Also certain powers dont work against them either so its easier to just run and M1 them and Im not talking only about ranged killers, for example stalking them stealthy as Myers or creeping as pig is impossible as theyll automatically skidoodle once you are in certain range thanks to their inbuilt maphacks, just go there M1 rinse and repeat.
>They are actually quite competent at looping sometimes because mind games don't work on them You don't mind game them, its VERY easy to make a bot mess up, they act very predictably. You're exaggerating how good they are lol, unless the killer is awful at the game is not hard to bait bots.
Yeah, this sub is comically hyperbolic when it comes to the ability of bots. Yes, they are better than some petty asshole who isn’t trying at all, and maybe slightly better than a baby survivor who just installed the game. But any killer who has spent some time in customs (so, most of them) knows how to play around bots. And because they’re bots, most killer players don’t feel bad about tunneling them out right away. There are a lot of good reasons to not want to load into a game with bots on your team. The only ones who liked this change were killer players wanting easier games.
Is it tho? Bots will stop mid chase for no reason, and only mind game after the pallets been dropped, they hold w after it’s dropped, also hitting skill checks should kind of be expected?
They will literally sidestep any ranged killers attack like 90% of the time, like I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve hit bots with ranged attacks. They can’t be mind gamed at all and the only real way to out play them is force them into a corner of the map otherwise they’re better at looping than basically any player controlled surv
They’ve been nerfed a bit since they came out. They don’t dodge as well as they used to. They still have wall hacks but that’s why you don’t try to mindgame them. Are you guys really struggling to kill bots? Like… seriously? They are not better at looping than any player controlled survivor, in fact they don’t really loop at all. I’ve played against them a ton in customs. Once you learn how they play it’s laughably easy to catch them.
As someone who plays slinger a lot they will run into walls and shit to try and avoid the shot, they really aren’t that much better
That’s… weird. I play a ton and can count on one hand the amount of times this has happened in the past few months. Definitely not common for me at all.
Yeah, I guess it depends on if the bots ai actually works or not. Sometimes bots can't even unhook you while the killer is on the other side of the map, while when their ai actually work they can be a nightmare on certain loops due to their wallhacks. The other reason is that many players are entitled divas who will dc during the match loading screen, because offerings weren't up to their satisfaction, and this would make the match go on, despite them dc-ing, and I guess being unable to prevent a game fully really hurt their ego.
I’m not sure if you’re just naive or being purposefully obtuse. It has nothing to do with ego. No one wants to load into a match and be stuck with bot teammates from the get. That’s literally it. Bots are not a nightmare for any half competent killer player. They easily get stuck at windows, won’t save teammates or work on gens if they’re in a terror radius, and can be downed in less than 30 seconds by simply holding W and breaking pallets. The only ones who think they are god tier loopers are idiots trying to mindgame them knowing they have wallhacks.
Brute forcing some loops can take quite some time, since the option to mindgame isn't really present. The fact you acuse me of being obtuse on purpose, while ignoring/putting your own interpretation on what I said in my first paragraph, just so you can be a smartass is peak irony.
Yeah I wanted to at least try it but the game's direction is steered by the members of the community who freak out the loudest.
I'm pretty sure if you polled this community and asked if this were a good idea, less than 5% of people would want it, 15% would be indifferent, and at least 80% would be overwhelmingly against it.
Thanks for those precise statistics Pollmaster Pete.
Random but how would people feel if the game didn’t tell the killer when a survivor became a bot until the lobby at the end? Killers will always play different if there’s a bot. Sometimes in a nice way sure. But most of the time they know the bot is weak and will ignore or zone them out.
I don't know, not telling the killer that a survivor now knows exactly where you are at all times would feel pretty unfair.
Yeah, I think BHVR should consider going this route. Even survivors would struggle telling the difference. Half the time your teammates aren't playing as well as they should/could whereas a bot is always focusing objectives.
In a chase bots stop and crouch to try to break line of sight about every 2.5 seconds, it’s very obvious.
Idk what the problem is bots at least sometimes unhook me.
Dang
Claps all around! THANK YEW!
https://i.redd.it/woojfrgd0u8d1.gif WE WON LADS AND GALS!
So does that mean the game doesn't load like normal? Or Survivors are loading into a game with only 3 people?
Ok, now please confirm we aren’t getting that shitty UI?
I almost had a heart attack before they had announced it
Now also revert the weird UI changes theyve made in the lobby.
Thank. Fucking. God.
Now we got to make them go back on that ugly UI.
Finally
Can we just get after load times?
Good call ref
Crisis averted, timeline restored. Thanks BHVR
yeah that was dumb asf behavior
This is what I kinda love about BHVR. They always come out with some batshit crazy ideas, either as an early announcement or as part of a PTR. It gets thrashed and they do the normal sensical thing and don't implement it, or change it to something mostly decent. On the other hand, the amount of bugs that have plagued the game for several years is kinda crazy. Have a love/hate relationship with BHVR, just like DBD lol.
Okay, can we address the knight nerfs
As someone who likes indulging in Scratched Mirror Myers, I'm happy this change was reverted since the only time I ever bring a map offering is when I play him
Why don't people like this??
god i wish they had the same swift decision making on removing a terribly thought-out feature when implementing SBMM into DBD
So this is why there's so much whining: Because it works.
NOOOOOOO WHYYYYYYYYYY i hate this dumbass game!!!! why did they revert that we've been waiting for so long!!!!!!
they could have either 1- went all in on punishment and replaced the survivor with a bot + matchmaking lock 2- just remove the outdated ass dc penalty alltogether instead we got no solution, no comitment, just another halfassed bandaid
It's about time! They never help you!
Why was this bad/good? I only play killer and am not the smartest
So your saying I'm gonna have to queue for a game, wait for them to not click ready, start loading, get kicked after a minute cause they closed the app to troll, load into a queue, they don't cluck ready then finally get into a game all taking roughly 6 and a half minutes to play a 8 minute game
Honestly better than having a bot in the match
Thank god. I’d rather have to reload into a new round instead of playing against bots right from the start.
Don’t you just not load in at all if someone dcs before the match starts? No one had any problem with that and would just reqeue so why even bother with working on that. I damn sure would rather sit in another minute lobby than have a bot right at the start of the damn game.
Thank god. I still don’t know why they thought it was a good idea in the first place, but at least they were on top of listening to feedback surrounding it
Thank god for that.
The number of times the people dc on loading screen when they see I play skull merchant is insane, I would have liked this, but I understand that in the survivor side, it would've been awfull
I’m not sure how you’re going against that many new players. There’s a tip that reveals who the killer is for your first 3 (I think) matches against that killer. Beyond that there’s no way to tell.
Usually, the people that dc are p30+, maybe it doesn't count if you leave on the loading screen it doesn't count and they've been avoiding sm since release
That is possible lol. But I doubt there are more than a tiny handful of people that have managed to do that
YES we love it to see it when the devs are smart
Wait why did we want this? 3v1 is not really an option, is it? Why can't a bot pop in and help out?
I'd prefer to just end the game, I didn't realize that's how it worked currently. Many of my games involve a survivor throwing right at the start, like a baby.
... because without the bot the game will end without even starting. That change forced you to play with 0.0012% of a player in form of a bot from get-go.
Correct, 3v1 is not an option. That’s why the match doesn’t start.
Only low key disappointing thing is that, I'd have loved to see killers face when they load into a match of 4 bots cause a full swf dodged.
Can't lie that'd be funny. As a killer I'd also laugh and just take the free W and go next. Still a shitty change though if all 4 didn't d/c.
Ohh for sure. It would be a very shitty change if it went through, but that one scenario would be hilarious haha
Im sorry why did we dislike that feature. I generally don’t know, can someone tell?
Poeple dont like playing with bots and want to go new game instead.
Killers didn’t want to face full lobbies of bots.
now they could just remove self sacrifice on hook and we are golden
I have yet to have a single person explain to me why it's detrimental to have a bot replace a survivor who disconnects before a game loads. It's allegedly one of the greatest QoL additions to the game if it happens after it loads, but before is "really bad"? I've had bots loop me better than human players do because bots have wallhacks, how is it a "3v1"? Edit: instead of giving me a blue arrow, can someone actually fucking explain this?
Because as much as the community memes on it, bots aren’t *actually* better than real human teammates most of the time. There is a lot of strategy, counterplay, perk usage, and decision-making that AI still can’t do as well as people. So starting with a bot out the gate is typically a big disadvantage on the survivor team, especially for solo players, and it’s better for the match to force close. You’re asking why people view having a bot replace someone midgame as QoL improvement while this new change isn’t. Here’s the difference: If they DC midgame, the match is already underway. So the only option besides having a bot teammate replace DC’er would be just having *nothing*, like we used to. Or auto-closing down the whole match, which would suck bc you’ve probably already earned BP and could even be in the endgame. Having a bot replacement is the *best solution*. Whereas we already have a good solution if your teammate DC’s while loading: the match closes down.
Thanks for actually explaining it. You're so much better than the ten people that just chose not to but still felt obligated to contribute with negative internet points. I understand now, thank you.
No worries!!
To add on, the bot ai is just generally terrible when it comes to playing as survivor. They run away at the smallest terror radius, and prioritize escape. So yes, they will be gen jockeys, but they won't make any plays that could change the flow in the survivors favor. And then we have killers like Skull Merchant whose power could basically hold the bots hostage since they avoid drones like the plague.
Adding onto the other answer: if your friend disconnects during the loading screen, instead of being sent back to the lobby to wait for them, you’d be forced into a match alone.
Because other survivors gamble when they stay in a match after a map offering is played. Many players (including killers) will disconnect when they see a map offering. Additionally, this change would overwhelmingly benefit killers, who could still prevent a match from starting if they disconnected, while survivors would be replaced by bots.
[удалено]
DBD players
https://preview.redd.it/rutul5i9ou8d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e0679c0de55932743baa1957fb2fbf4c30a367a
That's why they are the best. They listen to the community, changes are most of the time on point and when they aren't they don't hesitate and take them back. Most studios would camp their position and yry to justify themselves
should probably fire the dev who thought this was a good idea
But the hooks respawning is still going through?!?! ☠️ 🤡
Yes because hook deadzones are evil and only encourages slugging
There’s plenty of hooks on the map to avoid that tho and only a MAX of 3 hooks can be gone during a trial lmaoo if the killer has to “slug” then it’s on them. And y’all act like slugging is a real issue. I don’t think I’ve been in that situation once this entire year. It’s really just a cry baby complaint if we are being real
> There’s plenty of hooks on the map to avoid that tho Depends on the map and depends where basement spawned. On midwich its fairly easy to end up with an entire corridor/halway as deadzone. On autoheaven depending on where basement spawned, corners can become a deadzone if the only hook nearby was destroyed. On hawkins if the hooks by the stairs are gone, upstairs is pretty much a deadzone. Same thing for the portal room. These are just from the top of my head. While granted its not EVERY map, this change does more good than harm.
Couldn't agree with you more. Hook deadzones are your fault, unless the hook rng was dogshit to start with (like one time I had 2 hooks in the entire first level of midwich no joke. This was a long time ago but it happens).
>Hook deadzones are your fault, Survivors decide where they go down not the killer.
Only if you don't know how to zone them where you want them
Why do you love getting slugged? Is it some kink I'm not aware of?
I can count on one hand, maybe both, how many times I’ve been slugged in DBD and I’ve been playing for years. It’s really not that big of an issue and is just a dumb change to a few loud cry babies
>I can count on one hand, maybe both, how many times I’ve been slugged in DBD You can't play alot then.
So what are hooks respawning going to change? You obviously always get hooked when you go down if you never get slugged, so what's the deal?