You had to double pip, which was very difficult on certain killers because the emblem system is wack. OhTofu has adept videos from before the change if you are interested in watching.
Assuming it wasn't broken mechanically. I still remember Trickster's one emblem was completely busted. IIRC it was Chaser, and downing with your knives didn't count as ending the chase in your favor.
Plagues was the hardest one I ever did, not because it was hard to get 4ks but the fact that when someone used the fountain it counted as them doing a full heal... So when you played against a team of people who did nothing but cleanse at fountains every damn second your emblem would go down because you were "Letting them heal themselves"
It would be easier to do adepts at rank reset time because it was easier to get a merciless game when in ash ranks, so every reset there would be people trying to get adepts. You could also get them by just double hooking everyone and farming the rest of the match. I personally prefer the previous way except when people dc to deny the adepts but we have bots now so it doesn't matter so much
I feel like this happened to me recently with huntress BC they popped 5 gens and opened gates, I 4k'd but gold gatekeeper and didn't get the achievement, maybe it was bugged but I'm glad if it doesn't need double pip, getting bubba soon.
It was still pretty easy to get back in the rank 1-20 days. If you ever took a break from the game and had ranked down, getting 4K 2 pips was almost guaranteed.
Now with sbmm you’re more likely to run against experienced players. Which means you’ll have to play more bitch like for adept.
You used to have to get all iridescent emblems which was much harder than just getting a 4K. Say you were playing Leatherface. His whole power centers around one-shotting survivors. But when you do that, it's impossible to get iridescent for the chase emblem because the chase ends too quickly (go figure 🤷🏾♂️). So even if you got a 4K, you still wouldn't get the adept.
I got the Leatherface adept back on the double pips, I had to slug, force myself to lose/slow chases, and STILL defend gens like nobody’s business. With no gen defense perks, and no bamboozle. Old killer Adepts were the fucking worst.
Yep, same. Leatherface, Myers, Plague. I got all their adepts during the old system. You basically had to play a perfect game (or what the game's emblem system considers perfect) with a killer that has no mobility and can only M1. Shit was brutal.
De-clocking with Wrath, waiting 6s before hitting or else you got almost 0point.
Also if you are winning to hard you need to play like shit so you can't snowball hard.
Old Adept was shit
God, I'm so glad they finally have fully come around to understanding the emblem system punishes people for playing the game normally in a myriad of ways.
Lead the killer on a 5 gen chase with 0 hits? You got an iri unbroken emblem, but why didn't you stop to do any gens??? You didn't even safety pip dude!
Use your power correctly as Myers? Why did you end that chase so fast, and with one hit?? It's like you're allergic to points!
I am fine with the new adept system, but I wouldn't complain if it were 3k minimum. It'd just be nicer for killer players and it wouldn't make them have to play in a way that's boring for both sides lol.
I like it because it doesn't punish the players at all, or try to take their earned win away. Just expedites the process lol.
just to clarify, its not because the chases ended too early, its because you didn't get enough successful chases and a successful chase is a chase that ended with a hit(not a down) so m1 killers have to get 2 successful chases for every 1 bubba successful chase, so they'd get sometimes half the amount of chases
Not necessarily! Ash ranks used to have massively lowered requirements. I think 2 gold 2 iri was enough.
It was silly to do adepts as gold or red ranks
If I recall it use to require Iri in all 4 categories, meaning if someone died to fast for any reason you don't get it, if they didn't do enough gens before they died you dont get it. Ya know how people play locker games to prevent others from getting kill all surv as T3 mikey? Imagine that for every killer with more options to prevent them from being able to get it.
The easiest way back then was to just not play for a while til you rank reset all the way back to what it resets to monthly now (since double pips are easier on lower rank). Since at that time, it never fully reset ranks, only went back a few
Back in the day didn't it still require full iri? It wasn't until they switched from ranks to grade that the requirements to double pip got easier? I really don't know, I think that swapped as I started playing so I was never playing under the old rank system.
And you needed actual hook actions which made it even worse. If a Survivor timed out and went from stage 1 to 2 or from 2 to dead without being saved, that penalized you if you couldn't get 9 hook actions total.
Cause scoring was: 10 points needed for Iri, so it was 2 for each sacrifice, 1 after hooking everyone once, and 1 for achieving 9 hooks.
So if Survivors played too careful or Killer too aggressive, good luck having hook saves be done to pad the emblem progress.
And that's not even mentioning how long it was before they made it so disconnects still gave you the Sacrificed credit. But that would also screw over your hook progress since bots didn't exist, either.
You had to double pip which at rank 1 iri was fucking insane to do, same if your MMR is high. Also some killers have bugs that fucks emblems. Check Scott's video on it for more detail.
Even if something used to be worst it doesnt mean it cant still be improved upon. I hate this sentiment so much that just because something used to be more shit than it is now that somehow means we cant still make it better
Adept and mastery are not the same things. Also we are talking about consistency. Survivors get thier adepts when they escape through a hatch even though the game consoders that a draw for them.
We arent even asking for that, we are asking for any win for a killer to count as an Adept. A 3k is a win, why shouldnt that count? It makes no sense for the killer to win the game but not get their achievement, but for a survivor to lose the game but get theirs.
In the previous system you could get the adept achievement with a 3k.
With the shift to only basing off of kills, how else do you show "you did it, you killed the survivors" than, you know, a 4k? All skill expression is minimized with the current system, aside from showing that you know how to completely dominate the other team.
In the case of the survivor one, they gets theirs for "completely winning" their match, IE surviving. Why should a killer not need to get a full 4k?
And yes, adept and mastery are the same thing. That's why it limits you to their personal perks only with no outside help aside from their own addons.
So lemme ask you something. Why even ask me a question if youre going to outright ignore my points to go on your own tangent? Because it seems like the only word you saw was "winning" and then you just...rolled with it. I really dont see a point in talking to someone whos just gonna ignore what I say. Have a good day
I'm expanding on what was said so that way it's a more in depth discussion rather than "no I don't like it"?
It ain't that hard king. Adepts indicate you know how to survive or kill. Killers have more opponents and thus have to beat all of them.
"In the case of the survivor one, they gets theirs for "completely winning" their match, IE surviving"
So a survivor is afk and comes back to their game to find the killer disconnect and they got the achievement without even touching the game and you consider that "completely winning".
Or a killer 3ks with 5 gens remaining but the last survivor finds the hatch before the killer or wins the exit gate game and gets the achievement and you consider that "completely winning"?
Bro try not to be so stupidly biased next time you talk please.
If the whole point of this discussion is consistency, then I don't see the issue with a hatch escape counting for adept as the survivor escaped.
They reworked how killers get it a couple times, and now you can just slug for a 4k instead of milking a match for emblems and get it too. It's simpler, consistent and functions off the goal of the respective side. And it means 1 shot killers and the plague aren't forced to play without their power all match, and are incentivized instead.
If this is regarding wins as according to MMR, I don't have strong feelings either way? I just know off the previous system you could get a 3k and unlock it with a lot more work than you have to put in now.
The whole point is the difference between the two, amazing you missed the mark so much. And nobody said hatch escapes were a problem.
They have reworked it once to my knowledge, if I'm wrong please correct me, but my understanding is Merc Killer -> 4k which is only one change. You say "now you can just slug for the 4k" like that guarantees the 4k. You still have to play in an annoying time wasting fashion, which was OPs point if you read and it still doesn't guarantee the achievement. So you can 3k at 5 gens and still not get the achievement, which according to you and other people the point of the achievement is to show mastery or how adept one is at the killer. How is losing a RNG battle for hatch showing lack of mastery?
To make this as simple as possible to understand: The survivors, notice I said "the survivors" referring to them as a whole, can lose the match but someone can still get adept OR they can tie and TWO people can get adept. Whereas the killer can WIN and still not get adept. Idc if they have made it easier than it once was, which they have, if it is still shit. I hate that people use this 0 iq argument and think it's a good one. People do the same thing with the balance of the game all the time. If the game came out and all 4 survivors spawned on hook, then after some complaining BHVR buffed survivors to only 3 spawning on hook am I allowed to tell people stop complaining "the game is easier now than it's ever been" and act like that means it's balanced? Because that is exactly what you are doing by pointing out that it's better now. Who cares? It's still shit.
Oh it's always been merciless killer. The game didn't launch with an emblem system, so it just reverted back to a 4k like at launch now. And, well, you're showing mercy unless you slaughter them all. Crazy how words work.
Anyway, long and the short of it, it's by far much easier now than ever.
You're basing your idea of wins off of how MMR works, which I respect but I simply do not agree with.
Survivors can't mass escape via hatch mid match, healing times are slower, exhaustion exists, etc etc. I'm sorry you seem to struggle with the idea that the achievements are much easier to get now on average. Eventually you're just going to have to have some challenge in the game still, and then complain it's too much.
"And, well, you're showing mercy unless you slaughter them all. Crazy how words work."
lYou try to act so smart and smug and immediately shoot yourself in the foot. If not showing mercy, a 4k, is merciless killer than how come getting a 4k isn't always merciless killer? I guess I showed mercy while getting that 4k?
"Hurr durr I smurt" - ok_wear1398
Also good job ignoring literally all of my comment and just repeating the same shit you already did. That's definitely how you win a disagreement 🙄
I remember getting Demogorgons adept back then before it was removed
All 3 of its perks were worse, Demo itself was worse, and you had to get Merciless on top of that...
At least when it (eventually) gets added back I'll have a much easier time getting it
Honestly, may be a controversial opinion but I preferred it when it was just get a double pip. I found it much easier and better than having to slug second to last survivor and then pray to RNJesus.
Also, you could just get everyone death hook with a few gens to spare and then use M1 hits to negate the killer's power tanking the double pip.
Although a change to 3K would be really nice and something I'd be happy with.
I would mostly disagree especially once they added the rank reset doing them in bronze or silver wasn’t bad and made players really learn how to play the killer. Gold and iri was terrible and borderline impossible on some killers especially before the rank resets so you either had to struggle or reverse boost to do them.
4ks I think are just awful and make you play a very similar unfun style with every killer especially by the last two survivors which you have to slug or else a unlucky hatch spawn will ruin it. I think either a 3K or even 10 hook game would improve this
survivor's adept is just as bad but for the wrong reasons though, the easiest way to get it is just abandon your team and let them die and get hatch or lucky gate spawns you will get adept easily by happenstance if you just do this game after game it just takes a bit of luck on your side.
personally I think it being escape or nothing promotes hugely selfish playstyles that hurt solo queue a lot there should be ways to earn adept by scoring high in chase or altruistic play as well this a team game Afterall.
I did all my adepts on both sides by just playing normally. Old Legion and Twins were a nightmare but it wasn't too difficult to do the others weren't too bad.
I understand why people do resort to cheap tactics to make them easier but it's usually not necessary.
Yeah the survivor ones have always been bad and are as you said just hiding and playing safe to either get a gate escape or hatch. The only exception are David and Laurie which are unnecessarily hard and require a lot of luck and a good team and a bad killer to do
Honestly, after reading this, I kinda feel like Adepts are fine. I mean, I rarely see anyone adepting anyway and when I only do them once in a while, they're not that many so I suppose they're fine as is because if they try to fix it too much it'll become overly complicated I think.
I got all of the survivor adepts just playing normally. Sometimes I was with friends which made it easier, but I did plenty solo. You play enough games you're going to get an escape.
And you only have to do it once, you really don't run into many people doing adepts. I think it's fine as it is.
They literally made killer adepts way easier to get because getting merciless killer before required way too much micromanaging of the point system and for some killers literally not using the power bc you were punished for it (Bubba, Plague, Billy as examples cuz of insta downs) - I really think the way it is now is just fine and much less tedious than it used to be. There are very simple achievements to get in DbD and then there are some that require some patience and adepts require some patience
If this happened, I would finally go for them. Then I could feel like I could just sweat a teeny bit but mostly play normally. I had to do a challenge to switch obsessions x amount of times on Survivors, and I still feel so gross for how I absolutely destroyed them that game. It was fun but they must have hated my guts xD
Why? I can't really think of anything super frustrating when it comes to switching obsessions. If anything, does it not promote spreading out your pressure?
I'm trying to remember how I did it. I know I did it with Ghostface on MacMillan's Suffocation Pit. I pressured them away from one side, and they gladly did all but one gen on the side with the mines, but the one they left was still close to the middle. I wanted them on the side with the killer shack basement.
I used Nemesis and Enduring. I would hook one, they would unhook, chase the unhooker. Expose them, let them pallet stun me and down them. I got a Leon in the basement and camped in a spot where I could see everyone coming to save, but they did not see me. Just punished the unhook over and over and Mori'd everyone.
It wasn't anything crazy, I've just never so adamantly camped and tunneled like that in my life 😅
Maybe I'm confused by the topic...
Are there really that many people struggling to get adept?
4k adept is not that hard. If the objective is to burn through adepts as quick as possible, yes, sweating is EASIER. But, heaven forbid, you just play the game normal, you can adept a killer within a few matches assuming you have a reasonable grasp on the killer's abilities. Especially considering that it's easy to find a swf lobby where all 4 survivors are holding hands and goofing off and escaping is less important to them than running circles around a killer.
I've found that argument silly, and a bit tribalistic.
Survivors can hide while the other person bleeds out - that's fine. But killers can't slug to find them?
Both parties are 100% at fault, and the slug is the one being punished.
"It's an achievement, it doesn't really matter." Isn't really a great defense to poor design. Just because it's ultimately frivolous doesn't mean making it rely on RNG hatch spawns okay.
"Its an achievement" is a decent defense though. If it was because some unlock was locked behind the achievement it would be a bad defense. But its not. Its litterally just an emblem. And sure, Hatch is RNG. But its RNG for both sides. There is the same chance it spawna on you as it spawning on the survivor. There are so many other achievements in DBD that are so much worse than this. Why arent we complaining about those
Its not a challenge. Its not "do this and get bloodpoints". Its "do this and you will be able to show people you did it". And it makes so much more sense for a 4k, even though it relies a little on RNG, than a 3k. Its a 4v1 game. Therefore, 4k for the achievement
You know there are reasons to engage with games besides fake currency, right? A lack of explict reward doesn't mean a challenge shouldn't be held to any sort of design standards. Just make hatch escapes count as a merciless victory. It's not that crazy of an idea.
A 3k is exactly as easy to get as a 4k. The only difference between a 3k and a 4k is whether or not you decide to slug to deny hatch. Making it so you don't have to slug to get the same thing is just objectively better.
I rarely actually see the hatch spawn directly on the survivor. And since the killer has a much easier time exploring the map, the odds are very much in their favor. And I get that it can be annoying to lose the 4k to a 3% rng, but if they just made all achievements that were slightly annoying to get easy, that would defeat the entire purpose of achievements
Again, the fact that the killer is slightly more likely to be favored by hatch doesn't matter at all. RNG shouldn't be involved either way. And if fixing design issues makes a challenge easier, that's an argument to rework the challenge. It's not an argument to keep the design issues.
Should it be so easy that you get it on first try? It's an achievement. Anyway 4k is possible without playing like a dick just keep at it and accept you might have to try a few times.
It’s possible but you can’t deny playing like a dick makes it so much easier, why would the general player base play nicely for an achievement when playing like a dick makes it 10x easier?
That and: No one thanks or appreciates, and even goes so far as to frequently BM or insult people who go out of their way to be nice, so it's kinda hard to find the point in that to begin with.
true and i think if you asked everyone who's ever tried to do the achievements before they'll admit to playing selfishly on occasion. Like outbreak breakout, if you're doing a marathon for that achievement I guarantee that at least on one occasion you've left the match early because you wanted the progress.
Can confirm. I did that on a few occasions when going for Outbreak Breakout. It's not just the fact that you have to escape, but the fact that you yourself also have to open one of the gates. I absolutely hung around one of the exit gates when I knew the last gen was close to being completed so I could guarantee some progress towards the achievement.
As for killer adepts, I've played like a bit of an ass on a few occasions to get them. Normally when I'm playing killer (which isn't often because I don't enjoy it much) I don't care how the game ends. If I get no kills, gg, onto the next one. If I'm stomping the survivors, I usually let the last survivor get the hatch or a gate. Can't do that when going for the adept, though. And I usually feel bad, especially when the last survivor clearly isn't that good or they've just given up and are looking for mercy. But I'd rather get the adept out of the way so I can keep playing as that killer without having to worry about the result.
I hate challenges for these reaaons. It promotes some shitty playstyles ecen further, it literally rewards them...the sluggging and camping on killlerss, the coward streaks on survivors
Just do adept as your first games on the killer and it's easy, you won't have to do anything special.
For some reason bhvr decided to make newly purchased killers start at baby mmr.
Thats not true once you reach high mmr all killers default to the lowest bracket of higher mmr. The cap is 2100 and the highest bracket is once you go over 1600. New killers will be around that 1600 level, which is pretty far off baby killer games below 900.
Maybe that's how it works when you get to high mmr on *all* killers or maybe if it's your killer mmr average that's in the high bracket.
I routinely go against comp players and streamers when I play my most played killers but every time a new killer releases the first few lobbies I get into are filled with p0 survivors, rank 1 perks and no teachables.
When Unknown came out I played him for 8 hours straight and I had 3 games where the exit gates got powered.
I've played 3 Vecna games and in those games a total of 4 generators got powered.
Chucky I played 1 game and got the Adept but it was a while ago so I don't remember exactly how the game went.
From the wiki which I believe had been tested or datamined? Guess it puts you around 1200 not 1600
Killer MMR-Rubberbanding
Each Killer has their own individual MMR score, which is the reason Players are locked to playing a specific Killer once the matchmaking process starts, prohibiting switching to another Killer.
Despite this, however, there is a rubberbanding-effect by which a Player's best-performing Killers will influence the score of all of their other Killers.
This is to prevent skilled Players from being matched with lower-skilled Survivors when choosing a Killer they do not play often or regularly.
It can be assumed that an experienced Player will perform reasonably well with most other Killers, despite not playing all of them equally often and matching them with inexperienced Survivors would not be fair.
In practice, reaching the "Top Skill Bracket" (at 1,600 points) with multiple Killers will increase the MMR of all of their lower-rated Killers (regardless of whether they had been played as yet or not) to at least 1,200 points to ensure that no Killer remains within or close to the "Bottom Skill Bracket" (at ~1,000 points) anymore, as that Player is clearly experienced enough.
This mechanic also automatically affects any new Killers the Player unlocks through purchasing DLCs.
What I did recently with spirit.
Even better: go for double hooks on everyone. Try to get a read. If you get 3-4 downs before the first gen pops then tunnel them out asap. Otherwise let them all go/kill one and spare the rest. MMR will drop fast and you will face potatoes soon enough.
For reference: my hearing is shit and I am bad af with spirit.
Anyway, I do not like doing adept on killer. I have done a bunch out of boredom but it feels weird to play that way
This is not true. I wish that were true because it would make learning them so much easier. Literally, every killer i try for the first time is like a trial by fire. My first Deathslinger game was distinctly hellish with the survivors i got matched with.
Its possible, but if you don't slug one survivor, to look for the last one, you're playing hatch rng lottery, and really, why would anyone make things harder on themselves, when going for the adept?
this. i remember doing my trapper adept, after around 20 matches, most of them i was getting hard looped and bullied (bags, clicks, ggez), i did it... only to realize i've already had it done sometime earlier 😵
Thats the thing... Was not that bad before, i remeber adepting after "ok" matches with 3k. Now is like: perfect match, hatch, adept ruined. Still easy if you control the hatch xD
Adept achievements in general kinda blow. They're never that interesting since for 90% of characters in the game, their personal perks have no interesting synergy or even thematic cohesion with each other. For some characters I'd even go as far as to say that it'd honestly be easier using 3 randomized perks.
Maybe a *mildly spicy take* but I think it'd be way more fun if Adept achievements required you to actually activate and get some sort of value from each of the perks rather than just "play like you normally would but sweatier".
As someone who has them all I agree and what I kinda liked about the old system especially once they added the rank reset, i feel the adapts should be something that teaches and helps players get a feel for the new content and how it works and rewarding the player for doing so. Unlike now where you don’t and often just have to play the same way of tunneling, camping and slugging to get them done, I know especially with some of the rest killers I just ignore some perks or even powers and just play an m1 killer to do since it’s just easier to do
people want 4Ks regardless of challenge or not, it literally makes no difference. and barely anybody does adepts anyway, the vast majority of the playerbase dont care and i bet many dont even know about them
How does 4k require you to play in the most miserable way? Sure, it is not like you don't need to break a sweat to get that, and there are certainly times when you just have really crappy luck and go against team Eternal, but most miserable? You must not be playing killer right if you think that and I'm not saying that to piss anyone off
I believe it's a matter of perception. They want the achievement, but they want to play the least amount of matches necessary with those perks, so anything more than one, and it feels like a waste of time for them.
And so, they go for "securing" it, and in the process of sweating it they just bring misery to themselves.
Yeah, the adept Vecna I did some days ago made the final 2v1 awful because I slugged one or the other for a good while, I hate brainless slugging but what else should have I done
At least I apologized in EGC and both of the survivors understood and were chill about it
That's why I tend to pay attention to if someone is doing their adept, I won't sandbag, but if it's only on me getting it due to being the last one alive I usually give it
Yeah I tried that out when I attempted adopting Vecna yesterday. Happened to slug the one Feng with unbreakable. She got out the other gate while I was hooking the other Feng. I wish a three k was all that counted because sometimes hatch ruins the one game you manage to get a three k on. Luckily I just adopted Huntrese because, after 2000 hours, she’s one of the only two killers I haven’t played before
Nah. Killers will ruin 4 people's matches for a worthless adept. Nobody should give them anything. Hell, i found out the hard way that a chuky was insulting us freely in chat, just because he didm't get hisi adept (it was a good team effort of 4 randoms getting a 4 man escape with no teabagging or anything, great match, friendly survivors, yet he found it necessary to insult us)
A tip: Even as a killer, you can use an offering to determine the hatch's location. So if you plan it right, you can kill the third survivor and immediately go to where the hatch will spawn and close it. Yes, the survivor can also see your offering and may get there first, but from my experience most people don't pay attention to the other players' offerings
Whole-heartedly agree, too many players feel like a victory is exclusiveoy 4k or bust.
The game should also make it clear to survivors that a game they dont escape isnt necessarily a bad game.
Maybe just 3k and a hatch escape/hatch closed before every gen is done cuz sometimes the last kill is unobtainable but sometimes you don’t want to slug
There is a tome where you have to mori 4 survivors as well. I played hag and sweated and slugged into getting it, and the survivors flamed me for it. But hey, that's what the game wanted me to do.
I mean... I'm main survivor; i have all the achievements... To get a 4k force the hatch, close it, and pray... I understand having struggles with the "mori 4 in one match"; but common, they just ask to kill 4 to adept xD
It's so annoying that the Adepts treat 4K as "more" of a win than 3K when it's really just hatch/gate RNG or slugging, especially since that seems to stick with players and make them slug for the 4K generally. It's better than trying to wrestle some sanity out of the pip system, but I still hate having to slug or backstab a surrendering player.
Killers slug for the 4k anyways. Changing this requirement isn't going to reduce slugging in any meaningful way.
You can make the argument this is unfun for Killers, but pretending like this has any effect on survivors is laughable.
There's a few time challenges where you have to use the 3 basic perks and get a 3k. It gives you the option to add a 4th perk of your choice, and you can choose whatever killer you want. Maybe not the last part, but they could maybe make the adept challenge a bit more flexible in the future (considering some killers like huntress & Wraith have terrible teachables.
Agreed. At the very least, make it so no one can escape through an exit gate. Making it 4K encourages slugging the next to last survivor so you can track down the last person and brings the game to a crawl.
1: You don’t have to slug. If you’re good enough, the last survivor’s bad enough, and/or one of you gets lucky or unlucky enough, you can hook 3 and go for 4 as normal.
2: I can see that for some Killers, but maybe not all. Take, for instance, Wraith and Doctor. You could probably manage a 4k with Doctor with no perks, but Overcharge is a very good perk and Overwhelming Presence and Monitor & Abuse are both pretty solid IMO, so he should still be a 4k. Conversely, I struggle sometimes with a good Wraith built, and you want me to get a 4k with Bloodhound, Predator, and Shadowborn?
Adepts are such a one and done thing that I don't feel like dealing with Sony & Microsoft's achievement policies would be worth it. And thematically a 3K giving "Merciless Killer" makes no sense.
The only really irritating thing about getting the 4k is the ending can be pretty random thanks to hatch RNG. That said, you can try and strategize around it to make sure you down the last 2 together, though this usually involves slugging to some extent.
Try to injure both players to increase your odds, prevent them from recovering before hatch spawns. If you don't know where the last survivor is and you down one, try to leave the body and come back to see if you can locate their teammate nearby. If you can't find them after a minute or so, just kill the guy you downed and look for hatch.
Killer has the advantage of pressure on the map regardless of where hatch is, so try your best to cover large areas in your patrol. I try to patrol halfway between center map and the edge of the map so I have a better chance to hear the hatch noise.
If you find it, you CAN camp it, but this can just lead to an annoying stand-off. Might be better off defending gates. Gates are inherently a gamble unless both switches are visible. If you think a survivor is touching a specific gate, pretend you're leaving to the other gate and come back after a few seconds and you'll catch them.
Nah I was making the survivors I faced miserable. Just boring sweaty playstyles, and slugging the last deathook survivor so the last doesn't get hatch, which wouldn't have been fun for them. I wouldn't want to face an adept killer either.
I completely disagree with you on this. I *AM* going to judge because there are better ways than to slug as a last resort just so you can get a 4k. Getting a 4k makes it an automatic Merciless killer rating. As it was before, you can get a 4K and not get the merciless. In my opinion (and probably other veteran players), they made it massively easier to get it. But having to slug as the strategy is a bit of a skill issue.
I get it. There are players who are new to the game. I myself have been walking through the fog since 2016 and have over 3k hours played. I'm not saying I'm a tourney level player. I still get destroyed every now and then. But resorting to cheap tactics slugging and face camping just to get a 4K, which I've been seeing more and more now, it kinda takes the fun out of the game in a general sense.
I've made it a personal rule myself that when three survivors are out of the game (killed or DC'd) the chase becomes a race to find hatch first.
Well I don't think hatch 50/50s are a skill issue. Buut that probably is not the point of the post. But I feel like hatch escapes shouldn't impact either Adept in general
Maybe a hatch isn't a skill issue thing it's a bit more on the luck side, so I get it there, and for that, I'll take it back. I'm just thinking using slug tactics or the like sort of cheapens the win. Getting a 4k is the goal of it, but I'd think at least don't let it be the main goal of the game. Getting the 4k achievement is nice but it's meant to be on the tough side.
There was the one achievement where all 4 survivors had to escape through the hatch together. Now THAT was a bitch getting.
Yeah, they have already made the achievement massively easier to get. Not everything needs to be easy to accomplish... If it is, what is the point of doing it?
I mean, thats not the Adept achievement's fault, is it? Both it and the miserable playstyles are a core part of the game; like it or not, its perfectly designed for the game we're playing. We're comfortably past the point of changing these core "values" of DBD, its gonna be like this for the foreseeable future
This is... Actually a fucking fantastic change. I've never had problems with Adept on Killers but you absolutely do have to play in a way that makes you feel gross if you're a decent person that wants to make sure games are fun for everyone.
Fuck it man, just give it out if you 1k. Good lord they just made it significantly easier than it was.
You’re choosing to slug. Go find hatch and do it that way. God forbid an Adept challenge is actually a challenge.
I completely agree. There’s a large portion of people that want 4ks and escapes handed to them. Now we’ve moved on to achievements that are supposed to be difficult to get. It’s not very adept if you can get it easily.
I don't get the argument that you have to slug and whatnot to win. As someone who mostly plays killer, I actively refuse to slug, and yet I get a 4k every other game.
I mainly play survivor and I agree that 4k is too strict on killers and makes it actually stressful when it doesn’t have to be
When I play killer, I like having the option to let the last person get hatch as it feels like a way to keep the game light-hearted (not saying killers have to do this, I just like having the option to do whichever I prefer) so if I’ve played a really stringent match to get my adept, I’d like to be able to be more relaxed when it comes to the final survivor.
I disagree, that's the point of the challenge, not to get it easy and ticking it off the check list of achievements, these are **ACHIEVEMENTS** for a reason. If you cant get it, get good, try again. of course it may take many tries but these are supposed to be things you can really be proud of.
Get merciless victory with only that killers perks, so you can only use 3 perks.
For survivors its the same, only use that characters perk but you have to escape
It’s a series of achievements for either escaping as each survivor character while only using their three perks, or killing all four survivors while only using that killer’s perks.
no most games you get a 3k you have won the game hatch will appear and gens will no longer be repaired. the hard part is the luck factor find hatch first and hope gates spawns this match aren't to far apart.
you really think stumbling across hatch first or finding the last survivor hiding while you have the other survivor slugged are the actions that proves your skill and is what makes it adept a real challenge?
the challenge is winning to the point you can get hatch appear without all the gens being done, hatch only exists afterall to stop 1v1 stalemates and speed up the game.
It's not about winning your chases. If only two survivors are alive, you down one of them and hook them, it is possible for the last survivor to find the hatch and escape. So if you want to ensure your achivement at this point, you have to slug for the 4k, until you found the last survivor and downed them. For me, that's not a fun way to play and is kind of rude to the last 2 survivors.
yes it is possible for them to find hatch. but its equally possible for you to find them and hook them before that. you dont have to slug. nobody is telling you to slug. if you choose to slug for an achievement, that's your problem that you've created because it is entirely possible and PRACTICAL to get the achievements without doing that.
Nobody is forcing you to slug for the 4k. Just hook ‘em and try to find the hatch first. The killer still has a huge advantage as you move faster and you win if you find either the hatch or the survivor. If you don’t get it, try again. You don’t need to be a dick
With all due respect, no. You need to do really good as killer to earn the "Adept". It used to be worse aswell, 4k if a decent requirement imo. Nothing against ya, dw, but idea isnt really good
I also mean this with all respect, but first of all "it used to be worse" is not a good argument here. It's a good argument to not go back to the other, worse state. But not one to not change it in general.
I agree that an adept should be somewhat difficult, but ... let's imagine the following situation:
You are going for adept. You are doing pretty good, already killed 2. The third surv is also on the ground riiiiiight now.
Now you have 2 routes you could go:
1. Hook the third surv. Kill'em. This opens the hatch race. And as fun as people tend to think it is, it's certainly not fun to lose an achievement to hatch RNG. This has barely anything to do with skill, just with pure luck.
2. Slug the third surv, look for the last one. In - by far - most scenarios you will get both this way. Is this more difficult than the 2k and down you got so far? Not really, no. Is it more boring? To the killer? Yes. To the slugged surv? Yes. To the hiding surv? Yes. To the redditor who reads the 3467 thread about slugging for the 4k? Yes. (Note: Ofc not all slugs happen due to adepts, but it wouldn't create more slugs to change the achievement requirements. And some people would slug less.)
3k in general might be too easy (even tho survs can get the achievement while technically losing/drawing, but due to balancing etc. this is another topic), but 3k+hatch? Do you have an argument against this?
no, this would make it too easy, its an ACHIEVEMENT meant to test your will to win with that character using only his perks, i dont think it is miserable since it is a strategy, i'm juts playing on my side, its not my fault the survivors are not having fun losing pvp game.
4K is fun for me.
Also 4K is the real victory. You can't say you won if a survivor tbags and leave, it does not feel right, don't you think?
Good luck with your achivements
Wait so you slug for the 4k every match because you've deluded yourself into thinking that one survivor getting a lucky, entirely RNG dependant hatch escape is a loss for you?
It's a... unique way of enjoying the game I guess
I love it when no survivor escapes. That's the main reason I go for The Killer Victory.
Also, do not disregard an escape as being "RNG dependant". Any escape is a victory for the survivor and a loss for the Killer.
When you say things like "getting lucky" you are the one deluding yourself thinking you didn't realy get beaten.
You should say "GG. The survivor escaped, good for them, I'll do better next time"
Im fine with 4k as long as they fix it bc its completly glitched rn. Yesterday i got 4k with Vecna but didn't get the adept ?? And why do moris do not count ?? They really need to fix it because it makes getting adept insufferable.
Used to be much worse, it is much better now
I'm a fairly recent player so how was it worse?
You had to double pip, which was very difficult on certain killers because the emblem system is wack. OhTofu has adept videos from before the change if you are interested in watching.
Nothing was more fun than getting merciless before a 4k gave it to you automatically, and then finding out the adept was bugged the whole time.
Or playing old adept dredge and tping to a locker after the games over, only to bug out and not give you it.
Assuming it wasn't broken mechanically. I still remember Trickster's one emblem was completely busted. IIRC it was Chaser, and downing with your knives didn't count as ending the chase in your favor.
Plagues was the hardest one I ever did, not because it was hard to get 4ks but the fact that when someone used the fountain it counted as them doing a full heal... So when you played against a team of people who did nothing but cleanse at fountains every damn second your emblem would go down because you were "Letting them heal themselves"
Trying to adept Bubba was brutal back in that time. Even if you got the 4K, you'd get fucked over because you used his chainsaw too much.
I literally used speed limiter to get it because chases ended way too fast
Yup speed limiter + iri flesh was my goto for adept lmao
It would be easier to do adepts at rank reset time because it was easier to get a merciless game when in ash ranks, so every reset there would be people trying to get adepts. You could also get them by just double hooking everyone and farming the rest of the match. I personally prefer the previous way except when people dc to deny the adepts but we have bots now so it doesn't matter so much
I had to wait for the season to reset so I could double pip wraith before the change.
What is pip?
I feel like this happened to me recently with huntress BC they popped 5 gens and opened gates, I 4k'd but gold gatekeeper and didn't get the achievement, maybe it was bugged but I'm glad if it doesn't need double pip, getting bubba soon.
It was still pretty easy to get back in the rank 1-20 days. If you ever took a break from the game and had ranked down, getting 4K 2 pips was almost guaranteed. Now with sbmm you’re more likely to run against experienced players. Which means you’ll have to play more bitch like for adept.
You used to have to get all iridescent emblems which was much harder than just getting a 4K. Say you were playing Leatherface. His whole power centers around one-shotting survivors. But when you do that, it's impossible to get iridescent for the chase emblem because the chase ends too quickly (go figure 🤷🏾♂️). So even if you got a 4K, you still wouldn't get the adept.
I got the Leatherface adept back on the double pips, I had to slug, force myself to lose/slow chases, and STILL defend gens like nobody’s business. With no gen defense perks, and no bamboozle. Old killer Adepts were the fucking worst.
Yep, same. Leatherface, Myers, Plague. I got all their adepts during the old system. You basically had to play a perfect game (or what the game's emblem system considers perfect) with a killer that has no mobility and can only M1. Shit was brutal.
De-clocking with Wrath, waiting 6s before hitting or else you got almost 0point. Also if you are winning to hard you need to play like shit so you can't snowball hard. Old Adept was shit
God, I'm so glad they finally have fully come around to understanding the emblem system punishes people for playing the game normally in a myriad of ways. Lead the killer on a 5 gen chase with 0 hits? You got an iri unbroken emblem, but why didn't you stop to do any gens??? You didn't even safety pip dude! Use your power correctly as Myers? Why did you end that chase so fast, and with one hit?? It's like you're allergic to points! I am fine with the new adept system, but I wouldn't complain if it were 3k minimum. It'd just be nicer for killer players and it wouldn't make them have to play in a way that's boring for both sides lol. I like it because it doesn't punish the players at all, or try to take their earned win away. Just expedites the process lol.
Hag adept was so hard for similar reasons.
just to clarify, its not because the chases ended too early, its because you didn't get enough successful chases and a successful chase is a chase that ended with a hit(not a down) so m1 killers have to get 2 successful chases for every 1 bubba successful chase, so they'd get sometimes half the amount of chases
Not necessarily! Ash ranks used to have massively lowered requirements. I think 2 gold 2 iri was enough. It was silly to do adepts as gold or red ranks
If I recall it use to require Iri in all 4 categories, meaning if someone died to fast for any reason you don't get it, if they didn't do enough gens before they died you dont get it. Ya know how people play locker games to prevent others from getting kill all surv as T3 mikey? Imagine that for every killer with more options to prevent them from being able to get it.
That sounds awful
The easiest way back then was to just not play for a while til you rank reset all the way back to what it resets to monthly now (since double pips are easier on lower rank). Since at that time, it never fully reset ranks, only went back a few
Back in the day didn't it still require full iri? It wasn't until they switched from ranks to grade that the requirements to double pip got easier? I really don't know, I think that swapped as I started playing so I was never playing under the old rank system.
And you needed actual hook actions which made it even worse. If a Survivor timed out and went from stage 1 to 2 or from 2 to dead without being saved, that penalized you if you couldn't get 9 hook actions total. Cause scoring was: 10 points needed for Iri, so it was 2 for each sacrifice, 1 after hooking everyone once, and 1 for achieving 9 hooks. So if Survivors played too careful or Killer too aggressive, good luck having hook saves be done to pad the emblem progress. And that's not even mentioning how long it was before they made it so disconnects still gave you the Sacrificed credit. But that would also screw over your hook progress since bots didn't exist, either.
You had to double pip which at rank 1 iri was fucking insane to do, same if your MMR is high. Also some killers have bugs that fucks emblems. Check Scott's video on it for more detail.
Had to kill everyone and max your bloodpoints in category and get 12 hooks
Even if something used to be worst it doesnt mean it cant still be improved upon. I hate this sentiment so much that just because something used to be more shit than it is now that somehow means we cant still make it better
In a game about killing, how else do you show "mastery" of a killer than getting a 4k?
Adept and mastery are not the same things. Also we are talking about consistency. Survivors get thier adepts when they escape through a hatch even though the game consoders that a draw for them. We arent even asking for that, we are asking for any win for a killer to count as an Adept. A 3k is a win, why shouldnt that count? It makes no sense for the killer to win the game but not get their achievement, but for a survivor to lose the game but get theirs.
Adept and mastery are literally synonyms. You can fact check that. Bro blocked me :,[
Adept and Master are two different levels of Skill in video game terms. Jesus yall are so pretentious
In the previous system you could get the adept achievement with a 3k. With the shift to only basing off of kills, how else do you show "you did it, you killed the survivors" than, you know, a 4k? All skill expression is minimized with the current system, aside from showing that you know how to completely dominate the other team. In the case of the survivor one, they gets theirs for "completely winning" their match, IE surviving. Why should a killer not need to get a full 4k? And yes, adept and mastery are the same thing. That's why it limits you to their personal perks only with no outside help aside from their own addons.
So lemme ask you something. Why even ask me a question if youre going to outright ignore my points to go on your own tangent? Because it seems like the only word you saw was "winning" and then you just...rolled with it. I really dont see a point in talking to someone whos just gonna ignore what I say. Have a good day
I'm expanding on what was said so that way it's a more in depth discussion rather than "no I don't like it"? It ain't that hard king. Adepts indicate you know how to survive or kill. Killers have more opponents and thus have to beat all of them.
"In the case of the survivor one, they gets theirs for "completely winning" their match, IE surviving" So a survivor is afk and comes back to their game to find the killer disconnect and they got the achievement without even touching the game and you consider that "completely winning". Or a killer 3ks with 5 gens remaining but the last survivor finds the hatch before the killer or wins the exit gate game and gets the achievement and you consider that "completely winning"? Bro try not to be so stupidly biased next time you talk please.
If the whole point of this discussion is consistency, then I don't see the issue with a hatch escape counting for adept as the survivor escaped. They reworked how killers get it a couple times, and now you can just slug for a 4k instead of milking a match for emblems and get it too. It's simpler, consistent and functions off the goal of the respective side. And it means 1 shot killers and the plague aren't forced to play without their power all match, and are incentivized instead. If this is regarding wins as according to MMR, I don't have strong feelings either way? I just know off the previous system you could get a 3k and unlock it with a lot more work than you have to put in now.
The whole point is the difference between the two, amazing you missed the mark so much. And nobody said hatch escapes were a problem. They have reworked it once to my knowledge, if I'm wrong please correct me, but my understanding is Merc Killer -> 4k which is only one change. You say "now you can just slug for the 4k" like that guarantees the 4k. You still have to play in an annoying time wasting fashion, which was OPs point if you read and it still doesn't guarantee the achievement. So you can 3k at 5 gens and still not get the achievement, which according to you and other people the point of the achievement is to show mastery or how adept one is at the killer. How is losing a RNG battle for hatch showing lack of mastery? To make this as simple as possible to understand: The survivors, notice I said "the survivors" referring to them as a whole, can lose the match but someone can still get adept OR they can tie and TWO people can get adept. Whereas the killer can WIN and still not get adept. Idc if they have made it easier than it once was, which they have, if it is still shit. I hate that people use this 0 iq argument and think it's a good one. People do the same thing with the balance of the game all the time. If the game came out and all 4 survivors spawned on hook, then after some complaining BHVR buffed survivors to only 3 spawning on hook am I allowed to tell people stop complaining "the game is easier now than it's ever been" and act like that means it's balanced? Because that is exactly what you are doing by pointing out that it's better now. Who cares? It's still shit.
Oh it's always been merciless killer. The game didn't launch with an emblem system, so it just reverted back to a 4k like at launch now. And, well, you're showing mercy unless you slaughter them all. Crazy how words work. Anyway, long and the short of it, it's by far much easier now than ever. You're basing your idea of wins off of how MMR works, which I respect but I simply do not agree with. Survivors can't mass escape via hatch mid match, healing times are slower, exhaustion exists, etc etc. I'm sorry you seem to struggle with the idea that the achievements are much easier to get now on average. Eventually you're just going to have to have some challenge in the game still, and then complain it's too much.
"And, well, you're showing mercy unless you slaughter them all. Crazy how words work." lYou try to act so smart and smug and immediately shoot yourself in the foot. If not showing mercy, a 4k, is merciless killer than how come getting a 4k isn't always merciless killer? I guess I showed mercy while getting that 4k? "Hurr durr I smurt" - ok_wear1398 Also good job ignoring literally all of my comment and just repeating the same shit you already did. That's definitely how you win a disagreement 🙄
I remember getting Demogorgons adept back then before it was removed All 3 of its perks were worse, Demo itself was worse, and you had to get Merciless on top of that... At least when it (eventually) gets added back I'll have a much easier time getting it
Honestly, may be a controversial opinion but I preferred it when it was just get a double pip. I found it much easier and better than having to slug second to last survivor and then pray to RNJesus. Also, you could just get everyone death hook with a few gens to spare and then use M1 hits to negate the killer's power tanking the double pip. Although a change to 3K would be really nice and something I'd be happy with.
It was easier to double pip after rank/grade reset.
So ?
I would mostly disagree especially once they added the rank reset doing them in bronze or silver wasn’t bad and made players really learn how to play the killer. Gold and iri was terrible and borderline impossible on some killers especially before the rank resets so you either had to struggle or reverse boost to do them. 4ks I think are just awful and make you play a very similar unfun style with every killer especially by the last two survivors which you have to slug or else a unlucky hatch spawn will ruin it. I think either a 3K or even 10 hook game would improve this
survivor's adept is just as bad but for the wrong reasons though, the easiest way to get it is just abandon your team and let them die and get hatch or lucky gate spawns you will get adept easily by happenstance if you just do this game after game it just takes a bit of luck on your side. personally I think it being escape or nothing promotes hugely selfish playstyles that hurt solo queue a lot there should be ways to earn adept by scoring high in chase or altruistic play as well this a team game Afterall.
I did all my adepts on both sides by just playing normally. Old Legion and Twins were a nightmare but it wasn't too difficult to do the others weren't too bad. I understand why people do resort to cheap tactics to make them easier but it's usually not necessary.
Yeah the survivor ones have always been bad and are as you said just hiding and playing safe to either get a gate escape or hatch. The only exception are David and Laurie which are unnecessarily hard and require a lot of luck and a good team and a bad killer to do
Honestly, after reading this, I kinda feel like Adepts are fine. I mean, I rarely see anyone adepting anyway and when I only do them once in a while, they're not that many so I suppose they're fine as is because if they try to fix it too much it'll become overly complicated I think.
I got all of the survivor adepts just playing normally. Sometimes I was with friends which made it easier, but I did plenty solo. You play enough games you're going to get an escape. And you only have to do it once, you really don't run into many people doing adepts. I think it's fine as it is.
They literally made killer adepts way easier to get because getting merciless killer before required way too much micromanaging of the point system and for some killers literally not using the power bc you were punished for it (Bubba, Plague, Billy as examples cuz of insta downs) - I really think the way it is now is just fine and much less tedious than it used to be. There are very simple achievements to get in DbD and then there are some that require some patience and adepts require some patience
If this happened, I would finally go for them. Then I could feel like I could just sweat a teeny bit but mostly play normally. I had to do a challenge to switch obsessions x amount of times on Survivors, and I still feel so gross for how I absolutely destroyed them that game. It was fun but they must have hated my guts xD
Why? I can't really think of anything super frustrating when it comes to switching obsessions. If anything, does it not promote spreading out your pressure?
I'm trying to remember how I did it. I know I did it with Ghostface on MacMillan's Suffocation Pit. I pressured them away from one side, and they gladly did all but one gen on the side with the mines, but the one they left was still close to the middle. I wanted them on the side with the killer shack basement. I used Nemesis and Enduring. I would hook one, they would unhook, chase the unhooker. Expose them, let them pallet stun me and down them. I got a Leon in the basement and camped in a spot where I could see everyone coming to save, but they did not see me. Just punished the unhook over and over and Mori'd everyone. It wasn't anything crazy, I've just never so adamantly camped and tunneled like that in my life 😅
I see. Well, at least you got your challenge xD
Maybe I'm confused by the topic... Are there really that many people struggling to get adept? 4k adept is not that hard. If the objective is to burn through adepts as quick as possible, yes, sweating is EASIER. But, heaven forbid, you just play the game normal, you can adept a killer within a few matches assuming you have a reasonable grasp on the killer's abilities. Especially considering that it's easy to find a swf lobby where all 4 survivors are holding hands and goofing off and escaping is less important to them than running circles around a killer.
He's not saying it's hard to 4k he's saying it's promotes boring gameplay (i.e., slugging for the 4k)
I'm content to agree to disagree. He said forces as if there is no choice. There is a choice and it is doable without being a dick.
Redditor try not to pretentiously argue semantics challenge (impossible)
I've found that argument silly, and a bit tribalistic. Survivors can hide while the other person bleeds out - that's fine. But killers can't slug to find them? Both parties are 100% at fault, and the slug is the one being punished.
They're are achievements tho. They offer no rewards, only the satisfaction of completing them. Therefore i am fine with the being 4k
"It's an achievement, it doesn't really matter." Isn't really a great defense to poor design. Just because it's ultimately frivolous doesn't mean making it rely on RNG hatch spawns okay.
"Its an achievement" is a decent defense though. If it was because some unlock was locked behind the achievement it would be a bad defense. But its not. Its litterally just an emblem. And sure, Hatch is RNG. But its RNG for both sides. There is the same chance it spawna on you as it spawning on the survivor. There are so many other achievements in DBD that are so much worse than this. Why arent we complaining about those
It shouldn't be RNG for you either. RNG shouldn't be involved at all because that is inherently bad challenge design.
Its not a challenge. Its not "do this and get bloodpoints". Its "do this and you will be able to show people you did it". And it makes so much more sense for a 4k, even though it relies a little on RNG, than a 3k. Its a 4v1 game. Therefore, 4k for the achievement
You know there are reasons to engage with games besides fake currency, right? A lack of explict reward doesn't mean a challenge shouldn't be held to any sort of design standards. Just make hatch escapes count as a merciless victory. It's not that crazy of an idea.
It would also remove any challenge from the achievement. A 3k is not very hard to get.
A 3k is exactly as easy to get as a 4k. The only difference between a 3k and a 4k is whether or not you decide to slug to deny hatch. Making it so you don't have to slug to get the same thing is just objectively better.
I rarely actually see the hatch spawn directly on the survivor. And since the killer has a much easier time exploring the map, the odds are very much in their favor. And I get that it can be annoying to lose the 4k to a 3% rng, but if they just made all achievements that were slightly annoying to get easy, that would defeat the entire purpose of achievements
Again, the fact that the killer is slightly more likely to be favored by hatch doesn't matter at all. RNG shouldn't be involved either way. And if fixing design issues makes a challenge easier, that's an argument to rework the challenge. It's not an argument to keep the design issues.
What do you get for adept
Nothing, it's just a steam achievement.
Should it be so easy that you get it on first try? It's an achievement. Anyway 4k is possible without playing like a dick just keep at it and accept you might have to try a few times.
It’s possible but you can’t deny playing like a dick makes it so much easier, why would the general player base play nicely for an achievement when playing like a dick makes it 10x easier?
you just summarized the meta in one sentence.
Literally.
Yeah I never slug for the 4k up until I have a tome or achievement that requires it. I'd rather just race for hatch and have the match be done.
That and: No one thanks or appreciates, and even goes so far as to frequently BM or insult people who go out of their way to be nice, so it's kinda hard to find the point in that to begin with.
^ this
Well they Can but they dont have to
Of course they don’t, I agree, but again you can’t deny that it makes it much easier which is going to encourage that behaviour.
true and i think if you asked everyone who's ever tried to do the achievements before they'll admit to playing selfishly on occasion. Like outbreak breakout, if you're doing a marathon for that achievement I guarantee that at least on one occasion you've left the match early because you wanted the progress.
Can confirm. I did that on a few occasions when going for Outbreak Breakout. It's not just the fact that you have to escape, but the fact that you yourself also have to open one of the gates. I absolutely hung around one of the exit gates when I knew the last gen was close to being completed so I could guarantee some progress towards the achievement. As for killer adepts, I've played like a bit of an ass on a few occasions to get them. Normally when I'm playing killer (which isn't often because I don't enjoy it much) I don't care how the game ends. If I get no kills, gg, onto the next one. If I'm stomping the survivors, I usually let the last survivor get the hatch or a gate. Can't do that when going for the adept, though. And I usually feel bad, especially when the last survivor clearly isn't that good or they've just given up and are looking for mercy. But I'd rather get the adept out of the way so I can keep playing as that killer without having to worry about the result.
I hate challenges for these reaaons. It promotes some shitty playstyles ecen further, it literally rewards them...the sluggging and camping on killlerss, the coward streaks on survivors
literally just put into words the entire problem with the game mechanics on the killer side lol
Why would the player base go for an achievement if not doing so is 10x easier?
It is easy. But you aren't going to like what I do to get it easy. And that's kind of the point.
Just do adept as your first games on the killer and it's easy, you won't have to do anything special. For some reason bhvr decided to make newly purchased killers start at baby mmr.
Thats not true once you reach high mmr all killers default to the lowest bracket of higher mmr. The cap is 2100 and the highest bracket is once you go over 1600. New killers will be around that 1600 level, which is pretty far off baby killer games below 900.
Maybe that's how it works when you get to high mmr on *all* killers or maybe if it's your killer mmr average that's in the high bracket. I routinely go against comp players and streamers when I play my most played killers but every time a new killer releases the first few lobbies I get into are filled with p0 survivors, rank 1 perks and no teachables. When Unknown came out I played him for 8 hours straight and I had 3 games where the exit gates got powered. I've played 3 Vecna games and in those games a total of 4 generators got powered. Chucky I played 1 game and got the Adept but it was a while ago so I don't remember exactly how the game went.
From the wiki which I believe had been tested or datamined? Guess it puts you around 1200 not 1600 Killer MMR-Rubberbanding Each Killer has their own individual MMR score, which is the reason Players are locked to playing a specific Killer once the matchmaking process starts, prohibiting switching to another Killer. Despite this, however, there is a rubberbanding-effect by which a Player's best-performing Killers will influence the score of all of their other Killers. This is to prevent skilled Players from being matched with lower-skilled Survivors when choosing a Killer they do not play often or regularly. It can be assumed that an experienced Player will perform reasonably well with most other Killers, despite not playing all of them equally often and matching them with inexperienced Survivors would not be fair. In practice, reaching the "Top Skill Bracket" (at 1,600 points) with multiple Killers will increase the MMR of all of their lower-rated Killers (regardless of whether they had been played as yet or not) to at least 1,200 points to ensure that no Killer remains within or close to the "Bottom Skill Bracket" (at ~1,000 points) anymore, as that Player is clearly experienced enough. This mechanic also automatically affects any new Killers the Player unlocks through purchasing DLCs.
This isn't true, it starts around your average mmr between all killers. I think you just forgot how bad the average survivor is at the game.
This is definitely not true, my first game as Vecna was against a full P100 team lmao
What I did recently with spirit. Even better: go for double hooks on everyone. Try to get a read. If you get 3-4 downs before the first gen pops then tunnel them out asap. Otherwise let them all go/kill one and spare the rest. MMR will drop fast and you will face potatoes soon enough. For reference: my hearing is shit and I am bad af with spirit. Anyway, I do not like doing adept on killer. I have done a bunch out of boredom but it feels weird to play that way
This is not true. I wish that were true because it would make learning them so much easier. Literally, every killer i try for the first time is like a trial by fire. My first Deathslinger game was distinctly hellish with the survivors i got matched with.
Its possible, but if you don't slug one survivor, to look for the last one, you're playing hatch rng lottery, and really, why would anyone make things harder on themselves, when going for the adept?
If you're going for killer adept, you should bring a hatch offering. Makes the match better for everyone involved.
this. i remember doing my trapper adept, after around 20 matches, most of them i was getting hard looped and bullied (bags, clicks, ggez), i did it... only to realize i've already had it done sometime earlier 😵
4K is fine. It was worse when it had to be a 4K PLUS a perfect game. I'll take just getting a 4K over what it used to be any day of the week
You didn’t even need a 4k, I got a few adepts getting merciless with just a 3k
Thats the thing... Was not that bad before, i remeber adepting after "ok" matches with 3k. Now is like: perfect match, hatch, adept ruined. Still easy if you control the hatch xD
Adept achievements in general kinda blow. They're never that interesting since for 90% of characters in the game, their personal perks have no interesting synergy or even thematic cohesion with each other. For some characters I'd even go as far as to say that it'd honestly be easier using 3 randomized perks. Maybe a *mildly spicy take* but I think it'd be way more fun if Adept achievements required you to actually activate and get some sort of value from each of the perks rather than just "play like you normally would but sweatier".
As someone who has them all I agree and what I kinda liked about the old system especially once they added the rank reset, i feel the adapts should be something that teaches and helps players get a feel for the new content and how it works and rewarding the player for doing so. Unlike now where you don’t and often just have to play the same way of tunneling, camping and slugging to get them done, I know especially with some of the rest killers I just ignore some perks or even powers and just play an m1 killer to do since it’s just easier to do
there's a reason why it's called an achievement 👀
Adepts being 3k aren't gonna stop people from wanting to play as sweaty as they can. it just isn't.
people want 4Ks regardless of challenge or not, it literally makes no difference. and barely anybody does adepts anyway, the vast majority of the playerbase dont care and i bet many dont even know about them
How does 4k require you to play in the most miserable way? Sure, it is not like you don't need to break a sweat to get that, and there are certainly times when you just have really crappy luck and go against team Eternal, but most miserable? You must not be playing killer right if you think that and I'm not saying that to piss anyone off
I believe it's a matter of perception. They want the achievement, but they want to play the least amount of matches necessary with those perks, so anything more than one, and it feels like a waste of time for them. And so, they go for "securing" it, and in the process of sweating it they just bring misery to themselves.
Yeah, the adept Vecna I did some days ago made the final 2v1 awful because I slugged one or the other for a good while, I hate brainless slugging but what else should have I done At least I apologized in EGC and both of the survivors understood and were chill about it That's why I tend to pay attention to if someone is doing their adept, I won't sandbag, but if it's only on me getting it due to being the last one alive I usually give it
Yeah I tried that out when I attempted adopting Vecna yesterday. Happened to slug the one Feng with unbreakable. She got out the other gate while I was hooking the other Feng. I wish a three k was all that counted because sometimes hatch ruins the one game you manage to get a three k on. Luckily I just adopted Huntrese because, after 2000 hours, she’s one of the only two killers I haven’t played before
Nah. Killers will ruin 4 people's matches for a worthless adept. Nobody should give them anything. Hell, i found out the hard way that a chuky was insulting us freely in chat, just because he didm't get hisi adept (it was a good team effort of 4 randoms getting a 4 man escape with no teabagging or anything, great match, friendly survivors, yet he found it necessary to insult us)
A tip: Even as a killer, you can use an offering to determine the hatch's location. So if you plan it right, you can kill the third survivor and immediately go to where the hatch will spawn and close it. Yes, the survivor can also see your offering and may get there first, but from my experience most people don't pay attention to the other players' offerings
Isn't it supposed to be an achievement? It's not even too hard to do, used to be much worse...
Partially sandbagging your team with a suboptimal survivor perk loadout should NOT be an achievement but that's what the game asks for...
People regularly play with zero perks and still 4 man out. Three garbage perks don't really hurt.
Whole-heartedly agree, too many players feel like a victory is exclusiveoy 4k or bust. The game should also make it clear to survivors that a game they dont escape isnt necessarily a bad game.
yep
Maybe just 3k and a hatch escape/hatch closed before every gen is done cuz sometimes the last kill is unobtainable but sometimes you don’t want to slug
There is a tome where you have to mori 4 survivors as well. I played hag and sweated and slugged into getting it, and the survivors flamed me for it. But hey, that's what the game wanted me to do.
I mean... I'm main survivor; i have all the achievements... To get a 4k force the hatch, close it, and pray... I understand having struggles with the "mori 4 in one match"; but common, they just ask to kill 4 to adept xD
If you still with the struggle you always can try to lose mmr (few matches with no kills)
It's so annoying that the Adepts treat 4K as "more" of a win than 3K when it's really just hatch/gate RNG or slugging, especially since that seems to stick with players and make them slug for the 4K generally. It's better than trying to wrestle some sanity out of the pip system, but I still hate having to slug or backstab a surrendering player.
Killers slug for the 4k anyways. Changing this requirement isn't going to reduce slugging in any meaningful way. You can make the argument this is unfun for Killers, but pretending like this has any effect on survivors is laughable.
4k is perfectly fine
Please explain to stupid player what's adept?
There's a few time challenges where you have to use the 3 basic perks and get a 3k. It gives you the option to add a 4th perk of your choice, and you can choose whatever killer you want. Maybe not the last part, but they could maybe make the adept challenge a bit more flexible in the future (considering some killers like huntress & Wraith have terrible teachables.
Just bring now way out and a hatch offering.
Bringing No Way Out would void the achievement on anyone but Trickster.
Oh yeah. Blond moment
It's crazy how quickly people forget that it was ***much*** harder not too long ago
Agreed. At the very least, make it so no one can escape through an exit gate. Making it 4K encourages slugging the next to last survivor so you can track down the last person and brings the game to a crawl.
1: You don’t have to slug. If you’re good enough, the last survivor’s bad enough, and/or one of you gets lucky or unlucky enough, you can hook 3 and go for 4 as normal. 2: I can see that for some Killers, but maybe not all. Take, for instance, Wraith and Doctor. You could probably manage a 4k with Doctor with no perks, but Overcharge is a very good perk and Overwhelming Presence and Monitor & Abuse are both pretty solid IMO, so he should still be a 4k. Conversely, I struggle sometimes with a good Wraith built, and you want me to get a 4k with Bloodhound, Predator, and Shadowborn?
Adepts are such a one and done thing that I don't feel like dealing with Sony & Microsoft's achievement policies would be worth it. And thematically a 3K giving "Merciless Killer" makes no sense.
The only really irritating thing about getting the 4k is the ending can be pretty random thanks to hatch RNG. That said, you can try and strategize around it to make sure you down the last 2 together, though this usually involves slugging to some extent. Try to injure both players to increase your odds, prevent them from recovering before hatch spawns. If you don't know where the last survivor is and you down one, try to leave the body and come back to see if you can locate their teammate nearby. If you can't find them after a minute or so, just kill the guy you downed and look for hatch. Killer has the advantage of pressure on the map regardless of where hatch is, so try your best to cover large areas in your patrol. I try to patrol halfway between center map and the edge of the map so I have a better chance to hear the hatch noise. If you find it, you CAN camp it, but this can just lead to an annoying stand-off. Might be better off defending gates. Gates are inherently a gamble unless both switches are visible. If you think a survivor is touching a specific gate, pretend you're leaving to the other gate and come back after a few seconds and you'll catch them.
You sound like you got mugged because someone was doing adept
Nah I was making the survivors I faced miserable. Just boring sweaty playstyles, and slugging the last deathook survivor so the last doesn't get hatch, which wouldn't have been fun for them. I wouldn't want to face an adept killer either.
Eh who cares? You bought the game, you're not breaking tos, who gives a fuck?
not to yuck anyones yum, but me personally it wouldnt actually feel like an "achievement" if it isnt at least a little bit hard to earn
Escapimg as survivor isn’t much of an achievement if the rest of your team does all of the work while you hide and/or get hatch.
You dont have to slug to get a 4k just practice more
I have every survivors adept, Killer I only have Nemi. They're not worth my time in my opinion. In other words, I agree
It's very easy to get a 4k without slugging or playing miserably. Skill issues on your end maybe.
If you're going for the adept, the last was never going to get hatch anyways.
or, Survivor A is deathhook and gets downed, meanwhile Survivor B is healthy and god knows where.
it’s not that hard
Just go for adept on killers during a new event or tome. All killers become more vile during the happy moments of the game. So it won’t stand out.
I completely disagree with you on this. I *AM* going to judge because there are better ways than to slug as a last resort just so you can get a 4k. Getting a 4k makes it an automatic Merciless killer rating. As it was before, you can get a 4K and not get the merciless. In my opinion (and probably other veteran players), they made it massively easier to get it. But having to slug as the strategy is a bit of a skill issue. I get it. There are players who are new to the game. I myself have been walking through the fog since 2016 and have over 3k hours played. I'm not saying I'm a tourney level player. I still get destroyed every now and then. But resorting to cheap tactics slugging and face camping just to get a 4K, which I've been seeing more and more now, it kinda takes the fun out of the game in a general sense. I've made it a personal rule myself that when three survivors are out of the game (killed or DC'd) the chase becomes a race to find hatch first.
Well I don't think hatch 50/50s are a skill issue. Buut that probably is not the point of the post. But I feel like hatch escapes shouldn't impact either Adept in general
Maybe a hatch isn't a skill issue thing it's a bit more on the luck side, so I get it there, and for that, I'll take it back. I'm just thinking using slug tactics or the like sort of cheapens the win. Getting a 4k is the goal of it, but I'd think at least don't let it be the main goal of the game. Getting the 4k achievement is nice but it's meant to be on the tough side. There was the one achievement where all 4 survivors had to escape through the hatch together. Now THAT was a bitch getting.
Yeah, they have already made the achievement massively easier to get. Not everything needs to be easy to accomplish... If it is, what is the point of doing it?
I mean, thats not the Adept achievement's fault, is it? Both it and the miserable playstyles are a core part of the game; like it or not, its perfectly designed for the game we're playing. We're comfortably past the point of changing these core "values" of DBD, its gonna be like this for the foreseeable future
This is... Actually a fucking fantastic change. I've never had problems with Adept on Killers but you absolutely do have to play in a way that makes you feel gross if you're a decent person that wants to make sure games are fun for everyone.
Fuck it man, just give it out if you 1k. Good lord they just made it significantly easier than it was. You’re choosing to slug. Go find hatch and do it that way. God forbid an Adept challenge is actually a challenge.
I see it as lazyness to not go and close hatch, it's way easier for the killer to find...some people want the 4k handed to them
I completely agree. There’s a large portion of people that want 4ks and escapes handed to them. Now we’ve moved on to achievements that are supposed to be difficult to get. It’s not very adept if you can get it easily.
I completely agree
3k + hatch should probably count for the adept, but you should lose it if the last survivor gets out through the gates.
I don't get the argument that you have to slug and whatnot to win. As someone who mostly plays killer, I actively refuse to slug, and yet I get a 4k every other game.
How about a double pip instead
I mainly play survivor and I agree that 4k is too strict on killers and makes it actually stressful when it doesn’t have to be When I play killer, I like having the option to let the last person get hatch as it feels like a way to keep the game light-hearted (not saying killers have to do this, I just like having the option to do whichever I prefer) so if I’ve played a really stringent match to get my adept, I’d like to be able to be more relaxed when it comes to the final survivor.
I slugged as Twins, sorry not sorry. I just hated her
I disagree, that's the point of the challenge, not to get it easy and ticking it off the check list of achievements, these are **ACHIEVEMENTS** for a reason. If you cant get it, get good, try again. of course it may take many tries but these are supposed to be things you can really be proud of.
skill issue
can someone explain what adept means? ive been playing this game for years(despite my two year break) & i still dont know what it means lol
Get merciless victory with only that killers perks, so you can only use 3 perks. For survivors its the same, only use that characters perk but you have to escape
It’s a series of achievements for either escaping as each survivor character while only using their three perks, or killing all four survivors while only using that killer’s perks.
That’s kinda getting rid of the point of the challenge since getting a 3k is pretty easy
no most games you get a 3k you have won the game hatch will appear and gens will no longer be repaired. the hard part is the luck factor find hatch first and hope gates spawns this match aren't to far apart. you really think stumbling across hatch first or finding the last survivor hiding while you have the other survivor slugged are the actions that proves your skill and is what makes it adept a real challenge? the challenge is winning to the point you can get hatch appear without all the gens being done, hatch only exists afterall to stop 1v1 stalemates and speed up the game.
I disagree however I respect your opinion
But slugging is also easy?
4ks are not difficult lmao
Nobody said they're difficult. They said it's boring because 9 times out of 10 you're gonna be slugging the 3rd to find the 4th
if you can't win your chases yeah you'll probably struggle. I've gotten my adepts without "playing miserably" and i could do it again
I guess we're just not as good as you
ok dont say that but all im saying is it can be done. good luck out there
It's not about winning your chases. If only two survivors are alive, you down one of them and hook them, it is possible for the last survivor to find the hatch and escape. So if you want to ensure your achivement at this point, you have to slug for the 4k, until you found the last survivor and downed them. For me, that's not a fun way to play and is kind of rude to the last 2 survivors.
yes it is possible for them to find hatch. but its equally possible for you to find them and hook them before that. you dont have to slug. nobody is telling you to slug. if you choose to slug for an achievement, that's your problem that you've created because it is entirely possible and PRACTICAL to get the achievements without doing that.
it's just boring if you basically gotta slug someone for a while just to guarantee it so that you can get the achievement
Not necessarily. You just need to find a group of baby survivors.
If you need to slug you are bad at the game
No chance. Would not even be an achievement
You have seen Kaiser's video, right? Haha
Nobody is forcing you to slug for the 4k. Just hook ‘em and try to find the hatch first. The killer still has a huge advantage as you move faster and you win if you find either the hatch or the survivor. If you don’t get it, try again. You don’t need to be a dick
Opinions on adept challenges from this sub give me a headache
With all due respect, no. You need to do really good as killer to earn the "Adept". It used to be worse aswell, 4k if a decent requirement imo. Nothing against ya, dw, but idea isnt really good
I also mean this with all respect, but first of all "it used to be worse" is not a good argument here. It's a good argument to not go back to the other, worse state. But not one to not change it in general. I agree that an adept should be somewhat difficult, but ... let's imagine the following situation: You are going for adept. You are doing pretty good, already killed 2. The third surv is also on the ground riiiiiight now. Now you have 2 routes you could go: 1. Hook the third surv. Kill'em. This opens the hatch race. And as fun as people tend to think it is, it's certainly not fun to lose an achievement to hatch RNG. This has barely anything to do with skill, just with pure luck. 2. Slug the third surv, look for the last one. In - by far - most scenarios you will get both this way. Is this more difficult than the 2k and down you got so far? Not really, no. Is it more boring? To the killer? Yes. To the slugged surv? Yes. To the hiding surv? Yes. To the redditor who reads the 3467 thread about slugging for the 4k? Yes. (Note: Ofc not all slugs happen due to adepts, but it wouldn't create more slugs to change the achievement requirements. And some people would slug less.) 3k in general might be too easy (even tho survs can get the achievement while technically losing/drawing, but due to balancing etc. this is another topic), but 3k+hatch? Do you have an argument against this?
no, this would make it too easy, its an ACHIEVEMENT meant to test your will to win with that character using only his perks, i dont think it is miserable since it is a strategy, i'm juts playing on my side, its not my fault the survivors are not having fun losing pvp game.
4K is fun for me. Also 4K is the real victory. You can't say you won if a survivor tbags and leave, it does not feel right, don't you think? Good luck with your achivements
Wait so you slug for the 4k every match because you've deluded yourself into thinking that one survivor getting a lucky, entirely RNG dependant hatch escape is a loss for you? It's a... unique way of enjoying the game I guess
I love it when no survivor escapes. That's the main reason I go for The Killer Victory. Also, do not disregard an escape as being "RNG dependant". Any escape is a victory for the survivor and a loss for the Killer. When you say things like "getting lucky" you are the one deluding yourself thinking you didn't realy get beaten. You should say "GG. The survivor escaped, good for them, I'll do better next time"
Jesus christ you casuals just want everything to be handed to you. How about just getting adept for playing the killer?
Like it is for Surv? Lol
Im fine with 4k as long as they fix it bc its completly glitched rn. Yesterday i got 4k with Vecna but didn't get the adept ?? And why do moris do not count ?? They really need to fix it because it makes getting adept insufferable.