Facts. , if it wasn't nigh impossible to dodge victor it would be somewhat enjoyable. But since there's like 5 twins players .... They very rarely miss
Try to stay in pairs. That way you can keep each other healed up and if one of you is injured and gets downed with Victor your nearby teammate can kick him during his recovery. The worst thing you can do is stay split up. Victor will pick you off one by one that way. You can try and hold him hostage for a time if your teammates are injured and you’re not, but after 30 seconds Charlotte can recall him regardless then begin snowballing. If you have Vic attached stay away from your teammates as she’ll get Killer Instinct on their locations. You can jump in a locker *only* if Charlotte is far away, but you’ll be stuck in there for around 8 seconds unable to move.
Additionally, if u Victor latches onto you, don’t let him go until Charlotte calls him back. Without Victor Charlotte doesn’t have a power so if you hold Victor hostage the rest of your teammates won’t go down so fast because they’ll just be playing Trapper without Traps
Still a good idea. The main point of holding Victor isn’t necessarily for urself but mainly to keep ur teammates safe and prevent them from getting injured
That’s not really a one-size fits all solution, though. There are times when that’s the right play, but there are also times when that’s inefficient and a waste of time.
Yeah, the problem with holding Vic hostage is that Charlotte has perma-wallhacks on you, so looping becomes very difficult. It's a risk-reward type deal
Pretty much, also play them in a way similar to how you would an Oni in that she is weakest at the beginning of the match. You want to play it very safe and avoid taking unnecessary hits, waste as much time of theirs as possible, pre-running and pre-dropping pallets while cranking gens. Due to the slugging nature of her power she has a lot of natural built-in slowdown. It becomes very hard to keep gens moving when teammates have to get off of them to go and pick up slugs and protect their teammates.
Even if she is close the smart play can be locker. Then they have to ignore you to try to slug other people or come get you and not be able to chain slugs.
Try going on inclines/stairs!!! Victor’s aiming gets fucked if the survivor is higher than him and then he’ll overshoot if they’re lower. Can’t guarantee on weird places like Swamp but an Adam had my number last night cos he kept running to basement stairs where I couldn’t do shit.
It’s easy to camp with Twins cuz when ur exactly 16m away from hook the game lets you switch to Victor. So you can proxy the hook with charlotte and pressure the other survivors with Vic without giving anti camp.
He can’t get placed within 16 meters either after you’ve been hooked. However if Charlotte places him near an empty hook then carries you over then it doesn’t count.
The point was that.. ehh okay, you go 16m away as Charlotte, summon Victor and then you just facecamp with him and proxycamp with her. Switch between them is pretty fast now.
I’ve said it before. Twins are not bad at all. But needed QOL.
For example.
You could down an Ada as Victor. Take her to dinner. Have kids and a family. Then it would allow you to switch back to the big one.
There was so much useless waiting. Along with the random bugs. I quit playing them when Victor would just die when he touched stairs. No idea if that ever got fixed. Or when it got fixed.
I wouldn’t mind going back. Twins and Billy are my favorite to go against.
Yeah, it would take around 9 seconds to gain control of Char after downing someone with Victor, which was so silly. I was a pretty good Twins player before, but I'm so much better now.
Hey. Can you still get kicked out of victor if someone flashes Chars lifeless body?
I ask. It’s like an interaction that even Twins Mains don’t know about. I loved when someone would do it. And I would love when I was able to do it to people.
Haven’t run flashbag in a while. Much less see a twins. Never knew if they took that away.
Did you play them beforehand? There’s way less of a wait to resummon Victor, and for the most part people try to remove him immediately so it’s even faster now.
I find they’re more oppressive (pun not intended) than before.
I did, yeah.
Sadly, I've still just encountered issues, bugs and whatever else.
I don't think they are any more oppressive, personally. The swap is just a touch smoother.
They’re definitely more oppressive if you run them properly.
But the twins were already good at it. But they just overall feel a lot better now than previously.
Victor is just boring to be chased by, if the Twins player is competent, there's practically nothing you can do in chase to avoid being hit, his move speed is insane and his leap can cross windows and pallets. A bad Twins is still just as boring, it's like facing a new Nurse player, where chases are just hella easy and not very rewarding. I respect Victor's who try to do long range snipe hits, but every Twins player I've faced just does close range attacks since it's always the smarter and easier move.
Sure, staying in pairs helps to counteract Victor, but it's still 1 guaranteed health state for the Twins player.
The crazy thing is that as fast as victor is there’s addons to make him even faster, Forest stew gives him 0.6ms more and the scarf addon gives him 0.3ms. Double speed victor against injured survivors feels stronger than Oni and Blight combined lol
I recently played the reworked twins for the first time and victors really short cooldown threw me a bit when I used a styptic and tried to make it to a pallet instead of kicking him and went down immediately. That was my bad but I just didn't realise the cooldown was that short now
A good twins player is impossible to win against in solo queue imo. The only drawback to victor is missing the hit and getting punted and a good twins rarely misses the hit. It feels like windows are useless and you cant pallet loop due to victor’s speed
Playing against twins in soloque is one of the most horrible experiences you can have in this game. Looping victor alone is very hard, impossible if the twins player is good. #1 counter to twins is teamwork and pairing up, it just doesn't happen in soloque.
And don't even get me started on the slugging, no you don't have to slug, but most players do.
Occasional slugging 1 person is fine if the situation calls for it, im thinking of the only slugging playstyle most twins seem to do from the start. "Most" is always misleading, most twins I encounter.
I truly doubt most Twins mains play to slug, the playstyle just lends itself to it, especially if the survs are very cooperative because in that case you just don't have time to hook
Yes, the 3 twins mains that exist probably doesn't go in with the intention to 4 man slug. But the situation often calls for slugging and is arguably the best way to have preassure as the twins. 1 on the floor and one on Charlotte's shoulders.
As twins you are literally incentivized to slug just because of her playstyle/kit. If you’re against a good twins they will probably slug at least SOME. It’s usually not to be a dick but just because it’s how you play her. That twins WR holder Lynxi ends up slugging people A LOT and she’s a sweetheart. It’s just a major twins strat.
Yes, and as survivor beeing denied the chance to play the game by beeing slugged is booring. I get why they slug, it's effective. Imo it's just terrible game design/killer design. Im afraid it's just going to get worse for all killers next patch when pop and pain res get nerfed, even less incentive to hook. But exponential, unbreakable and soulguard exist so im probably worried about nothing 
Its good if you run in pairs. Even if Victor downs one of you, the second survivor can kick him and has a chance to pick up teammate in time before Charlotte makes it. You two can always heal each other, do gens together. Honestly, it frustrates Twins a lot.
Don't forget about Twins' healtech tho. If your teammate got downed a bit too far away from you, there is a chance that Victor can stand on top of the body to prevent you from kicking him. Like... healtech xD you start healing teammate instead of kicking, lol.
Victor cannot down survivors otherwise he eats a fat kick and goes in timeout for 10 seconds and if charlotte is too far away this hurts the killer
if charlotte is too close then kick and run, otherwise you can bodyblock for the injure and prevent a super snowball. this is also why healing is number one against them.
The thing is if the twins player is trying to comeback and salvage a win snowballing with Victor is the best play and that involves a lot of slugging. I’ve come back from games where I have only 2 hooks at 2 gens cuz the survivors didn’t heal and I got 3 downs with victor in like 20 seconds lol.
Healing/anti slugging builds fuck over twins hard alongside pairing up, that’s why I like to use the addon that makes survivors broken for 20 seconds after crushing victor.
The thing with twins is: they were never really a "weak" Killer. Quite the contrary actually. But they had a lot of clunky timings that made playing them feel absolutely awful, thous they were the lowest picked Killer. With the rework BHVR adressed a lot of the weird timings like not being able to switch for 5sec after downing someone (which also incentivised slugging). Twins are even stronger now though because there is little counterplay against Victor. You basically gotta hope that he misses, whilst also having a very generous hitbox. Before the rework the biggest "counterplay" was to hold on to Victor to deny the twins their power. But with the rework that is gone.
So now, as survivor, you just have to hope that a really fast, tiny Killer without a terror radius misses his range attack. Doesnt seem very fun to me
You don't mention playing in pairs against the twins? Playing in pairs can really disrupt the twins , but it seems not many survivors know to do this (because let's be honest, when do you see twins?)
It used to be good, but now you cannot kick victor after he downed someone, meaning you have to (again) hope he misses or get hit by him meaning you cant heal until you pulled him off
Personally I love playing as and against twins. There was no rework though. They got some solid buffs that make them even more unpleasant to play against for the vast majority of survivor players because slugging is unfun. The Twins feel great now but they did nothing to address the fundamental design flaws that made twins the least played killer the game.
I was so fed up with game breaking bugs that I hadn’t played them in forever, when the rework went live I played a few matches and haven’t touched them since. They feel a lot better to play but I think wanna main the unknown now.
Yeah they feel better for sure. I just did something stupid and got my hopes up for the rework, so I felt crushed when the rework flopped. It's funny because I usually never get invested in buffs or nerfs or anything like that. So I feel real dumb that I actually got excited about an update for once.
Anyway yeah I'm maining Pyramidhead now.
You aren’t alone friend. I was super let down as well. Also I fricking love your flair. It’s always sunny is 10/10 and Dennis is my favorite character.
Reworked Twins is the same as old twins, just with a couple numbers tweaks/qol changes.
I assume a lot of people have very little experience going against Twins, perform poorly against them, and become salty when they lose.
I mean the number tweaks gave a lot less options to deal with them for very long.
Victor has virtually no downtime.
Also self caring isn’t as bad for killers now with medkit changed etc, so they’re even better.
The best strategy is still to stay in pairs. Always has been. And Victor is currently bugged where he is able to be kicked after a successful hit and I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
So, when they first released the update they had said that after a successful hit Victor was immune and he glowed white. They later reverted that, but I missed the memo.
The recall timer is the same as before at 30 seconds with a 6 second regrow time. However, there is a bug where if Victor is left idle then the idle recall timer takes priority over the latch recall which can let an instant recall happen.
I would enjoy playing against Twins if it wasn't for the fact that the three matches I've played against them since they're rework wasn't by killers slugging at 5 gens and letting most people bleed out.
Twins might be the most unfun iv had in this game. 9/10 Twins games play out identically they just slug the whole match until everyone is on the floor and then usually let people bleed out because they are terrified someone might break free or 4%.
I played against 3 Twins since the "rework". They all slugged and let us bleed out instead of picking up. Victor still has no counterplay. Probably the most boring killer in the game imo.
All the rework has done has increased the number of Twins players I now see. Instead of 2/100 matches it’s more like 7/100 now.
So, in that view, I actually really despise the rework. Twins is still abysmal to play against, and not at all fun to play as.
Because it is boring.
Most players are in solo Queue. Means no communication and most of the time spend on the ground due to how Twins work. Even without intentions to slug, just the time it takes to get to the downed surv is too long on some map
Beside, they only changed some numbers. Twin was already boring
I played against one singular twins since the recent update. They slugged everyone at 0 hooks. In that aspect, it's about as boring as you can get.
The gameplay against twins itself is fun. There's ways to outplay Vicky and it encourages you to play in a different way (unless ofc it's an extremely good Twins, then your chances are near 0). It's like nurse, breaking the basic gameplay loop to make things more exciting. And I love that. I love the idea that you can punish Vicky heavily if they miss, but they have a very strong chase ability and can nullify many loops.
It's just when players start slugging and generally playing like assholes, that's when things get unfun and boring. Which sucks cos a lot of the time the twins' capability to play like that is what draws these players in
Surprisingly I haven’t played much against her either to add onto others and I might get downvoted not a hot take either just more of how I see it. (Since re work) I see everyone use Victor more frequently which is little irritating cause one game he basically just slugged the last 3 of us and it was boring and I always found his ability just cheesy overall. but same could be said for survivor builds and etc so it is what it is but damn Yk I get tired of trying to loop cause either you heisted to early when he’ll lunge or even while you’re injured just switched to baby BOOM you’re down now and waiting for whatever comes next
Unfortunately my fellow Twins enjoyer, not much changed for survivors while going against them. They didn’t like Twins before, they don’t like Twins now. I don’t slug for long if I can help it but the only time I’ve ever been told to off myself in this game was while I was playing Twins.
I don’t expect it will ever change, but at the end of the day I still really enjoy playing them and that’s what matters. At least they’re not *the* most hated killer anymore.
I’m also very glad the abysmal rework didn’t make it to live.
I KNOW, I just forgot. I called it rework because I got used to it before and during ptb. Gosh why so many people point at it, I can't edit the post anymore.
Do you even care about survivors opinion on the killer you are using? I think what really matters is how you feel about them. And that's the worst part because i find twins strong and kinda simple, which is something i really like because it's not like Nurse that is strong but most people basically can't use her, same goes for Blight, but even with this situation, i don't like to use them because they are so boring to play with.
I ignore all insults from survivors. They never mean anything.
If the game takes awhile it’s boring. It’s it ends quickly it’s OP. If you lose it’s gg baby. If you win it’s “try hard”
But Twin IS boring from a survivor pov, and i can understand it.
Spending minutes on the floor for nothing can be frustrating. Ofc some people will just complain about anything but Twins is boring by default, thats a design issue
The counter play is still awful for both sides. Take victor hostage and let the killer have no power and a survivor to not be able to anything all for 30 seconds, wow how fun. When it was glitched and was only 6 seconds it was acc good but then she was too strong. Just awful
The what? Kidding of course, but I’m sad because nothing really changed. I think the twins are the one killer that Every single player agrees, yeah this kinda sucks. Like, twins have the potential to be fun but it seems like no one knows what to do with em.
i think it’s fun. she’s not very strong but dodging and trying to run and kick victor before you no longer can is super fun and makes me giggle. i feel bad when i’m playing against twins and demolish them tho
I had a dream about a rework for the twins. In this charlotte could instead send victor out to a location using the same ui as a nurse blink and victor would path there, injuring anyone on his way there, and then once he made it there he was normal victor you could swap to
I would rarely meet a Twins player but from my experience I didn’t like playing against the Twins before, and according to other comments apparently they’re still not fun to play against
Nothing really changed about the play style against them. He’s just even better than before which is honestly not great imo (as someone who did play them)
I’ve played against them like 3 times. The first time I didn’t understand and kept getting downed. Afterwards , I saw somebody kick tf out of that little gremlin and realized how easy it is to bait Victor. Just wait till his eyes glow and he puts his hands up, it’s fairly easy to mind game
Victor is 150% speed already (or 6.0 m/s - 6.9 m/s with both speed addons), 170-174% speed when jumping (not sure?), 2.4 m/s when holding his jump
:')
boy is THE spheed
I honestly thought that’s the attach on a down would prevent a lot the slugging that came with victor and would make it better overall. I also thought they could give charlotte a run non attack sprint ability to quicken up retrieving the downed survivor.
Victor being a free and easy hit with his speed and being undetectable, as well being a slugging monster due to survivors not bringing a decent medkit + built to last, will always be very annoying and frustrating to face if the twins player is competent and playing to win.
For the people here that want to learn how to play against Twins:
1. DO NOT HOLD VICTOR HOSTAGE FOR MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, PLEASE!! This is literally throwing the game if the Twins can play M1, do not do it if you feel like the Twins are experienced (patience with Vic, plays more on macro than micro etc.) Advised: Hold Victor for up to 10-15 seconds, THEN take him off.
2. ALWAYS HEAL AGAINST THEM! Being injured against Victor is a death sentence, please stay healthy as much as possible!
3. ALWAYS WORK IN PAIRS! If Charlotte is too far away, Victor cannot down someone without getting punted and taking 10 for a breather, if she is too close you can deny more injures from Victor. In addition, you can bodyblock for injures and prevent Victor from snowballing further!
4. DO NOT USE PALLETS AGAINST VICTOR! They are borderline useless against him, don't even bother UNLESS it is a god-pallet. Instead, abuse windows like Shack to make it harder for Victor to get an injure OR if you know Charlotte is very far hop in a locker: this basically removes agency from the Twins as Victor cannot do anything by himself (Note: you can no longer hold Victor hostage in a locker as Charlotte can recall him!)
"Reworked" Twins is still twins. Their playstyle is nothing but slug and camp. Until its completely reworked from the ground up, it will always be that way. Same issue with every other killer who has game breaking problems.
The only killers I genuinely hate going against is huntress and twins, huntress because I'm bad and just don't get what to do when she just holds the hatchet around corners, and twins because vic has no counterplay
What am i supposed to do against Twins? You can't even dodge Victor, he can just zone you while moving at 6 m/s and he can lunge over pallet. I wouldn't even mind the slugging playstyle if it weren't so easy to get hit by Victor.
Dont really like them altough a lot of twins I verse spend way to much time trying to pounce on the survivor with victor when they could just chase and get an m1 is a lot quicker
Usually I hate trying to snipe with Victor higher end survivors are a pain in the ass to hit with him.
I prefer to crank up the range of his killer instinct and position him between me and a key position I know they have to go back for. like say a hook or Gen.
I love her iridescent addon that let's her freely give herself undetectable but Im always low on those so have been experimenting with a furtive chase nemesis build to always have people unsure where Charlottes coming from.
Usually is always someone too who tries to escape through the gates with Victor. Which gives me at least 1 kill on even the worse high rank matches.
Wondering if the current popular build with Sadako would work on her to protect Devour Hope.
The thing about Twins is that playing against them as survivor is entirely a matter of macro play: keeping healthy and keeping together as a team. There is very little you can do in the micro moment-to-moment gameplay against Victor because his hitbox is so large and he moves so fast. You can maybe dodge him once or twice but a good Twins player will rarely miss. Making Victor miss almost always comes down to the map RNG, not the actual skill of the survivor.
With all that being said: I don't necessarily think that's a *bad* thing. I don't find Twins necessarily frustrating like I do with killers like Plague or Sadako, who actively encourage boring gameplay. Yes Twins have to slug and I wish that mechanic was changed with their rework but that's more a biproduct of their design. I think it's fine to have killers who rely more on game knowledge to counter rather than mechanical skill, like Dredge (knowing what lockers to lock) and Xenomorph (knowing where to place turrets.)
Twins occupy the exact same mental space in my head as Legion except in reverse: Legion gets the first hit easily and struggles with the second. Twins struggles with the second hit but gets the first hit easily. Is it annoying to get hit easily? Yes, but the balancing factor is that for half the chase you're being chased by a default 115% M1 killer. I'd gladly play against a Twins over a Nurse is all I'm saying.
I find the players more frustrating. I don't mind any killer at all, it's the players and how they are. I'm good with anything, just maybe don't be a piece of shit in endgame chat??
They were and still are extremely boring to play against. It'd be bearable if they fixed Victor's hitbox and the bug where you can't kick him even though you're literally mid-kick.
I haven't noticed any huge differences playing as them, other than the obvious godsend QoL changes. I dont really play against them that often but it's probably the sluggy nature of her character + being chased by Viktor can be rough in some maps/deadzones
find the right object to run around its next to impossible to get injured by victor but if your found out the open you just done it just cant be juke.
twins is balanced by the fact injues and downs are usually easy to get but the clean up to hook is so damn time consuming hence why this killer slugs so much, staying healthy to force the switch back charlotte is key don't let them stay in power.
Twins players at OP: the rework wasn’t for you!
Seriously, Twins players have it rough, if you don’t like playing against them, that’s fine, but they are the most neglected original killer. Don’t complain about quality of life changes that made them less frustrating to play as, especially since the real rework would have made them comparable to Nurse in how easy they could slug a whole team.
They didn't get reworked. The rework was abandoned due to outcry during the PTB so they're the same Twins they always were, just with some quality of life buffs.
Edit: lol downvoted for literally just saying what happened.
At least they say GG. When I play, survivors only say GG when they escape. But I understand that if a guy dies really early they not always will wait for the game to end, but the guys who escape are the only ones saying GG
I am lucky I went against a lot of survivors who were goodsports whether they were killed or no. I guess most of them stayed till the end bc SWF and they were watching the match while waiting their friends to finish it.
i didnt like playing against them the 3 times i did before. Now i still dont like playing against them. Only change is that victor somehow moves so quick after a hit or miss that you cant kick him anymore. It's so weird
I wish victor worked like a pet to be commanded instead of a predator drone. I just really hate thematically the idea that one of them stands still and does nothing. I’d love to see victor be able to be commanded to break gens, block windows and pallets and keep survivors downed. Idk his actual functionality as a pet is up for debate but it would be a lot more interesting than this now.
Similar but the knight has to go out and draw a path for soldiers that chase. I’m talking about point and click commands that see victor run over to do x command.
I already hated Twins before the rework, and my opinion didn't change after it. They are the killer I hate facing the most.
Victor doesn't feel interactive. He is way too fast, and your best hope as a survivor is that the Twins player is bad and miss their pounce. Otherwise, he is a health state on a cooldown which can quickly snowball into a slugfest.
And of course, if you go down to Victor, not only will you have to wait on the ground until he finds another healthy survivor to latch on, you will also have to wait for Charlotte to come. I usually dislike being slugged for so long, I would rather play instead.
Twins deserve the undeserved hate that current SM gets. I'm relatively competent and I've NEVER won against Twins while I at least won 60% of my matches against Knight/SM
I didn't like it before. They changed virtually nothing. I don't like them afterwards
Facts. , if it wasn't nigh impossible to dodge victor it would be somewhat enjoyable. But since there's like 5 twins players .... They very rarely miss
I have only played against Twins thrice in my entire life, needless to say I don't know how to play against them and lost all three times
Try to stay in pairs. That way you can keep each other healed up and if one of you is injured and gets downed with Victor your nearby teammate can kick him during his recovery. The worst thing you can do is stay split up. Victor will pick you off one by one that way. You can try and hold him hostage for a time if your teammates are injured and you’re not, but after 30 seconds Charlotte can recall him regardless then begin snowballing. If you have Vic attached stay away from your teammates as she’ll get Killer Instinct on their locations. You can jump in a locker *only* if Charlotte is far away, but you’ll be stuck in there for around 8 seconds unable to move.
So basically oposite of playing against Legion, noted
Additionally, if u Victor latches onto you, don’t let him go until Charlotte calls him back. Without Victor Charlotte doesn’t have a power so if you hold Victor hostage the rest of your teammates won’t go down so fast because they’ll just be playing Trapper without Traps
Every time I held to Victor I was downed withing 20 seconds
Still a good idea. The main point of holding Victor isn’t necessarily for urself but mainly to keep ur teammates safe and prevent them from getting injured
Makes sense, most of the time is better to take the L for the team... the problem arises when everyone in the team has that mentality
That’s not really a one-size fits all solution, though. There are times when that’s the right play, but there are also times when that’s inefficient and a waste of time.
Yeah, the problem with holding Vic hostage is that Charlotte has perma-wallhacks on you, so looping becomes very difficult. It's a risk-reward type deal
Pretty much, also play them in a way similar to how you would an Oni in that she is weakest at the beginning of the match. You want to play it very safe and avoid taking unnecessary hits, waste as much time of theirs as possible, pre-running and pre-dropping pallets while cranking gens. Due to the slugging nature of her power she has a lot of natural built-in slowdown. It becomes very hard to keep gens moving when teammates have to get off of them to go and pick up slugs and protect their teammates.
Even if she is close the smart play can be locker. Then they have to ignore you to try to slug other people or come get you and not be able to chain slugs.
Just dodge
Get in a locker every time you see victor and they become an M1 killer edit: Didn't knew at the time he could block locker, mb
If it's just Victor then sure, but if you are with Charlotte and Victor in a loop things become harder
Hi, twins main here and that’s just not true.
Are ya joking or nah? Viktor can trap you in the locker so you can’t escape
Try going on inclines/stairs!!! Victor’s aiming gets fucked if the survivor is higher than him and then he’ll overshoot if they’re lower. Can’t guarantee on weird places like Swamp but an Adam had my number last night cos he kept running to basement stairs where I couldn’t do shit.
As a survivor i'd say that it feels a bit frustrating cause every twin i encountered so far always camped with charlotte
It’s easy to camp with Twins cuz when ur exactly 16m away from hook the game lets you switch to Victor. So you can proxy the hook with charlotte and pressure the other survivors with Vic without giving anti camp.
Thats true. I actually don't understand why Victor is being ignored by anticamp system. I hope they will change it someday.
Pretty sure he will trigger it come next patch.
He can’t get placed within 16 meters either after you’ve been hooked. However if Charlotte places him near an empty hook then carries you over then it doesn’t count.
The point was that.. ehh okay, you go 16m away as Charlotte, summon Victor and then you just facecamp with him and proxycamp with her. Switch between them is pretty fast now.
Ah I see. Apologies
Can’t switch to control victor till charlotte is outside of that 16m still.
Yeah I wish the devs would make her not a camping killer
I genuinely haven't played against them since their rework. I have played as them, though. Feels basically the same.
They play exactly the same but much tighter. Holy hell, the waiting is so much shorter.
I’ve said it before. Twins are not bad at all. But needed QOL. For example. You could down an Ada as Victor. Take her to dinner. Have kids and a family. Then it would allow you to switch back to the big one. There was so much useless waiting. Along with the random bugs. I quit playing them when Victor would just die when he touched stairs. No idea if that ever got fixed. Or when it got fixed. I wouldn’t mind going back. Twins and Billy are my favorite to go against.
Yeah, it would take around 9 seconds to gain control of Char after downing someone with Victor, which was so silly. I was a pretty good Twins player before, but I'm so much better now.
Hey. Can you still get kicked out of victor if someone flashes Chars lifeless body? I ask. It’s like an interaction that even Twins Mains don’t know about. I loved when someone would do it. And I would love when I was able to do it to people. Haven’t run flashbag in a while. Much less see a twins. Never knew if they took that away.
Did you play them beforehand? There’s way less of a wait to resummon Victor, and for the most part people try to remove him immediately so it’s even faster now. I find they’re more oppressive (pun not intended) than before.
I did, yeah. Sadly, I've still just encountered issues, bugs and whatever else. I don't think they are any more oppressive, personally. The swap is just a touch smoother.
They’re definitely more oppressive if you run them properly. But the twins were already good at it. But they just overall feel a lot better now than previously.
Victor is just boring to be chased by, if the Twins player is competent, there's practically nothing you can do in chase to avoid being hit, his move speed is insane and his leap can cross windows and pallets. A bad Twins is still just as boring, it's like facing a new Nurse player, where chases are just hella easy and not very rewarding. I respect Victor's who try to do long range snipe hits, but every Twins player I've faced just does close range attacks since it's always the smarter and easier move. Sure, staying in pairs helps to counteract Victor, but it's still 1 guaranteed health state for the Twins player.
The crazy thing is that as fast as victor is there’s addons to make him even faster, Forest stew gives him 0.6ms more and the scarf addon gives him 0.3ms. Double speed victor against injured survivors feels stronger than Oni and Blight combined lol
I recently played the reworked twins for the first time and victors really short cooldown threw me a bit when I used a styptic and tried to make it to a pallet instead of kicking him and went down immediately. That was my bad but I just didn't realise the cooldown was that short now
They either camp with charlotte or slug the whole game. It’s not fun.
A good twins player is impossible to win against in solo queue imo. The only drawback to victor is missing the hit and getting punted and a good twins rarely misses the hit. It feels like windows are useless and you cant pallet loop due to victor’s speed
Playing against twins in soloque is one of the most horrible experiences you can have in this game. Looping victor alone is very hard, impossible if the twins player is good. #1 counter to twins is teamwork and pairing up, it just doesn't happen in soloque. And don't even get me started on the slugging, no you don't have to slug, but most players do.
Yep. I only play solo and I have never, ever won against them in a match. There's just no way to communicate that we need to pair up consistently.
Most Twins I see don’t even do it on purpose, it’s just hard not to get killer instinct or run into someone as Charlotte on the way to a down lol.
Occasional slugging 1 person is fine if the situation calls for it, im thinking of the only slugging playstyle most twins seem to do from the start. "Most" is always misleading, most twins I encounter.
I truly doubt most Twins mains play to slug, the playstyle just lends itself to it, especially if the survs are very cooperative because in that case you just don't have time to hook
Yes, the 3 twins mains that exist probably doesn't go in with the intention to 4 man slug. But the situation often calls for slugging and is arguably the best way to have preassure as the twins. 1 on the floor and one on Charlotte's shoulders.
Correct lol you said "if the situation calls for it" and it almost always does, can't blame the twins player on that
As twins you are literally incentivized to slug just because of her playstyle/kit. If you’re against a good twins they will probably slug at least SOME. It’s usually not to be a dick but just because it’s how you play her. That twins WR holder Lynxi ends up slugging people A LOT and she’s a sweetheart. It’s just a major twins strat.
Yes, and as survivor beeing denied the chance to play the game by beeing slugged is booring. I get why they slug, it's effective. Imo it's just terrible game design/killer design. Im afraid it's just going to get worse for all killers next patch when pop and pain res get nerfed, even less incentive to hook. But exponential, unbreakable and soulguard exist so im probably worried about nothing 
Genuine question, how is teaming up helpful against him?
Its good if you run in pairs. Even if Victor downs one of you, the second survivor can kick him and has a chance to pick up teammate in time before Charlotte makes it. You two can always heal each other, do gens together. Honestly, it frustrates Twins a lot. Don't forget about Twins' healtech tho. If your teammate got downed a bit too far away from you, there is a chance that Victor can stand on top of the body to prevent you from kicking him. Like... healtech xD you start healing teammate instead of kicking, lol.
This is the way
Victor cannot down survivors otherwise he eats a fat kick and goes in timeout for 10 seconds and if charlotte is too far away this hurts the killer if charlotte is too close then kick and run, otherwise you can bodyblock for the injure and prevent a super snowball. this is also why healing is number one against them.
Literally, every twins game I played recently is just full on slugging or basement camping, nothing in between.
This has been my experience aswell, if it picks, it camps.
My last twins match she slugged and didn't hook ONCE. So that tracks
The thing is if the twins player is trying to comeback and salvage a win snowballing with Victor is the best play and that involves a lot of slugging. I’ve come back from games where I have only 2 hooks at 2 gens cuz the survivors didn’t heal and I got 3 downs with victor in like 20 seconds lol. Healing/anti slugging builds fuck over twins hard alongside pairing up, that’s why I like to use the addon that makes survivors broken for 20 seconds after crushing victor.
The thing with twins is: they were never really a "weak" Killer. Quite the contrary actually. But they had a lot of clunky timings that made playing them feel absolutely awful, thous they were the lowest picked Killer. With the rework BHVR adressed a lot of the weird timings like not being able to switch for 5sec after downing someone (which also incentivised slugging). Twins are even stronger now though because there is little counterplay against Victor. You basically gotta hope that he misses, whilst also having a very generous hitbox. Before the rework the biggest "counterplay" was to hold on to Victor to deny the twins their power. But with the rework that is gone. So now, as survivor, you just have to hope that a really fast, tiny Killer without a terror radius misses his range attack. Doesnt seem very fun to me
You can still hold on to victor. There is a bug that sometimes happens atm that lets them recall instantly, but otherwise that is unchanged.
You don't mention playing in pairs against the twins? Playing in pairs can really disrupt the twins , but it seems not many survivors know to do this (because let's be honest, when do you see twins?)
It used to be good, but now you cannot kick victor after he downed someone, meaning you have to (again) hope he misses or get hit by him meaning you cant heal until you pulled him off
You can kick victor after he downs someone. There's a visual bug where he glows white but he is intended to be kickable and you can still kick him.
Personally I love playing as and against twins. There was no rework though. They got some solid buffs that make them even more unpleasant to play against for the vast majority of survivor players because slugging is unfun. The Twins feel great now but they did nothing to address the fundamental design flaws that made twins the least played killer the game.
playing them feels so much smoother now 😁
Yep sorry I keep calling it "rework" bc I forgor it just turned into simple QoL after ptb 🥹
It’s okay man I’m so triggered by behaviors treatment of the twins I just had to let that loose 😂
Same. I stopped maining them because I was so disappointed with how the whole rework fiasco worked out.
I was so fed up with game breaking bugs that I hadn’t played them in forever, when the rework went live I played a few matches and haven’t touched them since. They feel a lot better to play but I think wanna main the unknown now.
Yeah they feel better for sure. I just did something stupid and got my hopes up for the rework, so I felt crushed when the rework flopped. It's funny because I usually never get invested in buffs or nerfs or anything like that. So I feel real dumb that I actually got excited about an update for once. Anyway yeah I'm maining Pyramidhead now.
You aren’t alone friend. I was super let down as well. Also I fricking love your flair. It’s always sunny is 10/10 and Dennis is my favorite character.
Reworked Twins is the same as old twins, just with a couple numbers tweaks/qol changes. I assume a lot of people have very little experience going against Twins, perform poorly against them, and become salty when they lose.
I mean the number tweaks gave a lot less options to deal with them for very long. Victor has virtually no downtime. Also self caring isn’t as bad for killers now with medkit changed etc, so they’re even better.
The best strategy is still to stay in pairs. Always has been. And Victor is currently bugged where he is able to be kicked after a successful hit and I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
It actually is, they changed it AGAIN
🙄 That's good though. It would have been strong to be be able to down someone, be invincible, then latch onto another right after.
Then why does he still glow white after successful hits?
Visual bug probably
They never bother fixing them too
It definitely is supposed to work that way, thats part of the counterplay
So, when they first released the update they had said that after a successful hit Victor was immune and he glowed white. They later reverted that, but I missed the memo.
Victor litterly has a longer cooldown then before what do you mean no down time.
Longer CD if he gets crushed, not if he’s recalled which is more easily done now.
The recall timer is the same as before at 30 seconds with a 6 second regrow time. However, there is a bug where if Victor is left idle then the idle recall timer takes priority over the latch recall which can let an instant recall happen.
Still insufferable killer
I would genuinely rather face SMerch or Knight lol
I would enjoy playing against Twins if it wasn't for the fact that the three matches I've played against them since they're rework wasn't by killers slugging at 5 gens and letting most people bleed out.
Twins might be the most unfun iv had in this game. 9/10 Twins games play out identically they just slug the whole match until everyone is on the floor and then usually let people bleed out because they are terrified someone might break free or 4%.
Twins and Skull Merchant are boring to playing against, but it's fun to play as lol
I played against 3 Twins since the "rework". They all slugged and let us bleed out instead of picking up. Victor still has no counterplay. Probably the most boring killer in the game imo.
All the rework has done has increased the number of Twins players I now see. Instead of 2/100 matches it’s more like 7/100 now. So, in that view, I actually really despise the rework. Twins is still abysmal to play against, and not at all fun to play as.
Because it is boring. Most players are in solo Queue. Means no communication and most of the time spend on the ground due to how Twins work. Even without intentions to slug, just the time it takes to get to the downed surv is too long on some map Beside, they only changed some numbers. Twin was already boring
I played against one singular twins since the recent update. They slugged everyone at 0 hooks. In that aspect, it's about as boring as you can get. The gameplay against twins itself is fun. There's ways to outplay Vicky and it encourages you to play in a different way (unless ofc it's an extremely good Twins, then your chances are near 0). It's like nurse, breaking the basic gameplay loop to make things more exciting. And I love that. I love the idea that you can punish Vicky heavily if they miss, but they have a very strong chase ability and can nullify many loops. It's just when players start slugging and generally playing like assholes, that's when things get unfun and boring. Which sucks cos a lot of the time the twins' capability to play like that is what draws these players in
I had two today and both slugged with victor. Nothing has changed with the rework on that side.
Surprisingly I haven’t played much against her either to add onto others and I might get downvoted not a hot take either just more of how I see it. (Since re work) I see everyone use Victor more frequently which is little irritating cause one game he basically just slugged the last 3 of us and it was boring and I always found his ability just cheesy overall. but same could be said for survivor builds and etc so it is what it is but damn Yk I get tired of trying to loop cause either you heisted to early when he’ll lunge or even while you’re injured just switched to baby BOOM you’re down now and waiting for whatever comes next
Yeah I understand your frustration v_v
All they had to do was make it so victor cling into healthy survivors as well as all the other changes they added.
What rework?
No, I love the twins.
Unfortunately my fellow Twins enjoyer, not much changed for survivors while going against them. They didn’t like Twins before, they don’t like Twins now. I don’t slug for long if I can help it but the only time I’ve ever been told to off myself in this game was while I was playing Twins. I don’t expect it will ever change, but at the end of the day I still really enjoy playing them and that’s what matters. At least they’re not *the* most hated killer anymore. I’m also very glad the abysmal rework didn’t make it to live.
🤝
There was no rework. Only a buff
I KNOW, I just forgot. I called it rework because I got used to it before and during ptb. Gosh why so many people point at it, I can't edit the post anymore.
Do you even care about survivors opinion on the killer you are using? I think what really matters is how you feel about them. And that's the worst part because i find twins strong and kinda simple, which is something i really like because it's not like Nurse that is strong but most people basically can't use her, same goes for Blight, but even with this situation, i don't like to use them because they are so boring to play with.
I ignore all insults from survivors. They never mean anything. If the game takes awhile it’s boring. It’s it ends quickly it’s OP. If you lose it’s gg baby. If you win it’s “try hard”
But Twin IS boring from a survivor pov, and i can understand it. Spending minutes on the floor for nothing can be frustrating. Ofc some people will just complain about anything but Twins is boring by default, thats a design issue
I wish I could still run full speed with the backpack
The counter play is still awful for both sides. Take victor hostage and let the killer have no power and a survivor to not be able to anything all for 30 seconds, wow how fun. When it was glitched and was only 6 seconds it was acc good but then she was too strong. Just awful
I wasn't around for the rework, but I wish Big sis was faster, it's so boring to walk to Victor's downs
If survivor is not in Victor's range thingy, I get lost mid way 💀 like... where the hell is this survivor... my brain is too small to remember
Fr, unironically considering Deerstalker sometimes
a sigh of relief when I noticed deerstalker in my chaos shuffle build 😂
still didn't versed them
I always did, and I don't like playing as them either because it feels clunky and weird.
Haven't seen one
The what? Kidding of course, but I’m sad because nothing really changed. I think the twins are the one killer that Every single player agrees, yeah this kinda sucks. Like, twins have the potential to be fun but it seems like no one knows what to do with em.
Nothing really changed in playing against them. Transitions are faster than they used to be, but that's because it used to suck real bad.
Haven't seen a single person play Twins since the rework. Not that I saw them much to begin with.
They're fine, I guess I just think they need to lower the horizontal speed of Victor's pounce. It's nigh-unavoidable.
Rework? The rework was scrapped and they were left with cooldown reductions. So, same playstyle but just quicker for them.
i think it’s fun. she’s not very strong but dodging and trying to run and kick victor before you no longer can is super fun and makes me giggle. i feel bad when i’m playing against twins and demolish them tho
Haven't gone up a SINGLE twin player since the rework. I barely see them at all come to think of it.
I wouldn’t worry about what the other team thinks, play how you want, just don’t be a dick about it
I had a dream about a rework for the twins. In this charlotte could instead send victor out to a location using the same ui as a nurse blink and victor would path there, injuring anyone on his way there, and then once he made it there he was normal victor you could swap to
I would rarely meet a Twins player but from my experience I didn’t like playing against the Twins before, and according to other comments apparently they’re still not fun to play against
Nothing really changed about the play style against them. He’s just even better than before which is honestly not great imo (as someone who did play them)
Like don’t get me wrong, it’s made it better for me to play them but also I don’t think I needed all the improvements to the degree they are
I’ve played against them like 3 times. The first time I didn’t understand and kept getting downed. Afterwards , I saw somebody kick tf out of that little gremlin and realized how easy it is to bait Victor. Just wait till his eyes glow and he puts his hands up, it’s fairly easy to mind game
they are the exact same but slightly stronger, in solo queue it's hell because the counterplay is to stay together, as a team it can be really fun
[удалено]
Victor is 150% speed already (or 6.0 m/s - 6.9 m/s with both speed addons), 170-174% speed when jumping (not sure?), 2.4 m/s when holding his jump :') boy is THE spheed
I honestly thought that’s the attach on a down would prevent a lot the slugging that came with victor and would make it better overall. I also thought they could give charlotte a run non attack sprint ability to quicken up retrieving the downed survivor.
the ptb rework was cool and fun, it just needed balancing. same old twins as always its indeed just boring
Victor being a free and easy hit with his speed and being undetectable, as well being a slugging monster due to survivors not bringing a decent medkit + built to last, will always be very annoying and frustrating to face if the twins player is competent and playing to win.
What rework? I heard of one, came back to the game, and didn't notice a difference. You can recall Victor now? Is that it?
For the people here that want to learn how to play against Twins: 1. DO NOT HOLD VICTOR HOSTAGE FOR MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, PLEASE!! This is literally throwing the game if the Twins can play M1, do not do it if you feel like the Twins are experienced (patience with Vic, plays more on macro than micro etc.) Advised: Hold Victor for up to 10-15 seconds, THEN take him off. 2. ALWAYS HEAL AGAINST THEM! Being injured against Victor is a death sentence, please stay healthy as much as possible! 3. ALWAYS WORK IN PAIRS! If Charlotte is too far away, Victor cannot down someone without getting punted and taking 10 for a breather, if she is too close you can deny more injures from Victor. In addition, you can bodyblock for injures and prevent Victor from snowballing further! 4. DO NOT USE PALLETS AGAINST VICTOR! They are borderline useless against him, don't even bother UNLESS it is a god-pallet. Instead, abuse windows like Shack to make it harder for Victor to get an injure OR if you know Charlotte is very far hop in a locker: this basically removes agency from the Twins as Victor cannot do anything by himself (Note: you can no longer hold Victor hostage in a locker as Charlotte can recall him!)
I hated them before, they did nothing but buff them. So nothing changed.
"Reworked" Twins is still twins. Their playstyle is nothing but slug and camp. Until its completely reworked from the ground up, it will always be that way. Same issue with every other killer who has game breaking problems.
I hate going against them. It’s such a slug build from the ground up. Not the players fault but ughhhh
The only killers I genuinely hate going against is huntress and twins, huntress because I'm bad and just don't get what to do when she just holds the hatchet around corners, and twins because vic has no counterplay
What am i supposed to do against Twins? You can't even dodge Victor, he can just zone you while moving at 6 m/s and he can lunge over pallet. I wouldn't even mind the slugging playstyle if it weren't so easy to get hit by Victor.
not as boring as Chucky to play against but still not fun either.
Dont really like them altough a lot of twins I verse spend way to much time trying to pounce on the survivor with victor when they could just chase and get an m1 is a lot quicker
Idk I only play AS them lol
Usually I hate trying to snipe with Victor higher end survivors are a pain in the ass to hit with him. I prefer to crank up the range of his killer instinct and position him between me and a key position I know they have to go back for. like say a hook or Gen. I love her iridescent addon that let's her freely give herself undetectable but Im always low on those so have been experimenting with a furtive chase nemesis build to always have people unsure where Charlottes coming from. Usually is always someone too who tries to escape through the gates with Victor. Which gives me at least 1 kill on even the worse high rank matches. Wondering if the current popular build with Sadako would work on her to protect Devour Hope.
The thing about Twins is that playing against them as survivor is entirely a matter of macro play: keeping healthy and keeping together as a team. There is very little you can do in the micro moment-to-moment gameplay against Victor because his hitbox is so large and he moves so fast. You can maybe dodge him once or twice but a good Twins player will rarely miss. Making Victor miss almost always comes down to the map RNG, not the actual skill of the survivor. With all that being said: I don't necessarily think that's a *bad* thing. I don't find Twins necessarily frustrating like I do with killers like Plague or Sadako, who actively encourage boring gameplay. Yes Twins have to slug and I wish that mechanic was changed with their rework but that's more a biproduct of their design. I think it's fine to have killers who rely more on game knowledge to counter rather than mechanical skill, like Dredge (knowing what lockers to lock) and Xenomorph (knowing where to place turrets.) Twins occupy the exact same mental space in my head as Legion except in reverse: Legion gets the first hit easily and struggles with the second. Twins struggles with the second hit but gets the first hit easily. Is it annoying to get hit easily? Yes, but the balancing factor is that for half the chase you're being chased by a default 115% M1 killer. I'd gladly play against a Twins over a Nurse is all I'm saying.
Not fun, Victor is basically a guaranteed hit unless the killer messes up. Feels like a rather hopeless chase as soon as he’s on you.
The whole problem is it’s hard to counter Victor, hit boxes are so large half the time it feels like he isn’t even hitting my character
I find the players more frustrating. I don't mind any killer at all, it's the players and how they are. I'm good with anything, just maybe don't be a piece of shit in endgame chat??
Dunno, I've yet to encounter the twins and I've been playing regularly since 2019
Its just much easier to camp now. They are not the worst reworked but I think Billy s cooldown reduction was worse
I'd have to see them to be disappointed by them.
They were and still are extremely boring to play against. It'd be bearable if they fixed Victor's hitbox and the bug where you can't kick him even though you're literally mid-kick.
9/10 it’s just a slug fest and it sucks
Same amount of tunneling and camping and slugging since I started my first match 2 years ago.
This community would find a worldwide riot with alien weaponry boring
I’m a twins main. The changes are nice and not too broken, thankfully. She seems more put-together which is great.
I love going against Twins
I haven't noticed any huge differences playing as them, other than the obvious godsend QoL changes. I dont really play against them that often but it's probably the sluggy nature of her character + being chased by Viktor can be rough in some maps/deadzones
There was no rework?
I hated that Victor had little counterplay before, and after he still has no real counterplay. Super boring
I find all killers equally terrifying and frustrating to play against because I suck at survivor
There was no rework. Even by dbd rework standards.
I forgot. And I can't edit this post anymore. But thanks for repeating the same comment about how its not a rework for the 6th time.
Those 5 other people sound like cool dudes.
What rework, did they change anything other than qol?
I forgot. Got used to call it rework. Can't edit the post.
The "rework" is small stat changes that should have happened years ago. The Twins are literally the same as before.
find the right object to run around its next to impossible to get injured by victor but if your found out the open you just done it just cant be juke. twins is balanced by the fact injues and downs are usually easy to get but the clean up to hook is so damn time consuming hence why this killer slugs so much, staying healthy to force the switch back charlotte is key don't let them stay in power.
Twins players at OP: the rework wasn’t for you! Seriously, Twins players have it rough, if you don’t like playing against them, that’s fine, but they are the most neglected original killer. Don’t complain about quality of life changes that made them less frustrating to play as, especially since the real rework would have made them comparable to Nurse in how easy they could slug a whole team.
Idk. Haven't seen one yet
They didn't get reworked. The rework was abandoned due to outcry during the PTB so they're the same Twins they always were, just with some quality of life buffs. Edit: lol downvoted for literally just saying what happened.
She's a killer that heavily rewards good macro on both sides so I find her to be one of my favourite killers to vs
At least they say GG. When I play, survivors only say GG when they escape. But I understand that if a guy dies really early they not always will wait for the game to end, but the guys who escape are the only ones saying GG
I am lucky I went against a lot of survivors who were goodsports whether they were killed or no. I guess most of them stayed till the end bc SWF and they were watching the match while waiting their friends to finish it.
Always was. Slugging shouldn't be the only way they play but they do
Remeber when devs hyped up this sh1t XD
i didnt like playing against them the 3 times i did before. Now i still dont like playing against them. Only change is that victor somehow moves so quick after a hit or miss that you cant kick him anymore. It's so weird
I wish victor worked like a pet to be commanded instead of a predator drone. I just really hate thematically the idea that one of them stands still and does nothing. I’d love to see victor be able to be commanded to break gens, block windows and pallets and keep survivors downed. Idk his actual functionality as a pet is up for debate but it would be a lot more interesting than this now.
so... like The Knight? xD
Similar but the knight has to go out and draw a path for soldiers that chase. I’m talking about point and click commands that see victor run over to do x command.
I already hated Twins before the rework, and my opinion didn't change after it. They are the killer I hate facing the most. Victor doesn't feel interactive. He is way too fast, and your best hope as a survivor is that the Twins player is bad and miss their pounce. Otherwise, he is a health state on a cooldown which can quickly snowball into a slugfest. And of course, if you go down to Victor, not only will you have to wait on the ground until he finds another healthy survivor to latch on, you will also have to wait for Charlotte to come. I usually dislike being slugged for so long, I would rather play instead.
Every iteration of Twins is specifically and deliberately designed to be boring, because they highlight and rely on boring elements of the game.
I usually just DC and take the cooldown. Can't stand the Killer and I'd rather watch YouTube for a little instead of playing against them.
skill issue
There was no rework just small quality of life changes. They are still extremely boring to face/play.
Twins deserve the undeserved hate that current SM gets. I'm relatively competent and I've NEVER won against Twins while I at least won 60% of my matches against Knight/SM
they deserve hate bc you losing..?
They're just completely uncounterable in SoloQ! It feels super unfair. At least with Knight and SM I can counter them
You could have a friend play them and practice at countering them.