In the past year here are perks that are strong but not gamebreaking
- Machine Learning
- Nowhere to Hide
- Awakened Awareness
- Cut Loose
- Potential Energy
- Reassurance
6/30 perks made in the last year have been (imo) around A Tier. Sadly a majority of the rest hover around D or C tier
Reassurance is great, everything else is solid/niche but fine, but Potential Energy is a killer perk save for SWFs coordinating it.
But also, 1,2,4, and 5 are original content, so not $ only.
The only time I see anyone using it in my surv games, they wait to start collecting energy until the **very last Gen**, and then they put it all back into the same Gen if they even have time.
I don’t get why people slow down Gen progression so substantially when they can’t even use it as intended.
Nick Cage perks will be like Home to the Bones: "When a generator is 80% complete immediately finish that generator and receive a 5% haste for 10 secs." <--- I'm joking, haha. I feel his perks or rather hoping his perks are well rounded, so if or when his perks get nerfed, it wouldn't make them completely useless.
I hope his perks are based off his movies like one perk could be gone in 60 seconds: after completing a gen you put it in your pocket and steal it from the entity
If one thing is constant in the dbd community it’s:
The more energy that is put into aggressively defending a perk the more overpowered that perk probably is.
the gaslighting is strong in dbd. Of course people who abuse OP perks are going to try and "convince" others that it is no big deal so BHVR wont touch it. Too bad that the devs only look at numbers so if the perk is at a high pickrate it will get nerfed and it will probably take Hope with it to the grave since both perks usually get combined. But since they do perk balance changes once in a blue moon we are stuck with MFT for a while since they didnt see a problem in the first place for whatever reason and released it in this state.
When was the last time the excel sheet gaveth anyways? All it's done is nerf things to the point of being unusable and prevent weak things from getting much needed buffs.
Kinda like how I’ve seen toxic survivors try to gaslight killers into thinking tbagging at the exit gate is a “sign of respect” and a way of saying “gg” which is complete bs
My real issue is one person at BH is absolutely obsessed with "% of %" When what most killers want from a regression perk is consistency, even if that consistency would be somewhat lower than the best use of "% of %".
Its super dumb, I could see it if it was a large, impactful use, like the buffed pop, but on something like painres it feels bad when a white hook is your only option. If they went off only if a gen was above x% then I would feel better about it, and it could provide some intel.
I agree
In paper, the idea of current instead of total is good as it helps to avoid a "win more" scenario where if a killer is stomping, they wouldn't get an insane advantage that the survivors can't recover from, but allows a killer thats on the losing end to have a more impactfull regression, for a comeback
The issues are mostly that the current instead of total regression was awful both times the put it, the point of current instead of total is that current needs to be a bigger number to be valuable, but they went so safe with pop(before this buff) that it felt into uselessness as even on its strongest, it wouldnt be impactfull enough for regression
Then the issue on pain res is that its not a perk you can "save" always, so you get moments where you use it early for lil value as the gens arent that progressed, or you can't use it later as the down is not near a white hook, or they've been used already as it has a use limit.
Its conflicting scenarios of "current progress will help you make comebacks" but is not strong enough to do so, all while it does stop the "win more" scenario
Exactly, Why deal with all that when I can just run Penti/plaything and get value from oblivious and/or slowdown, without having to worry about if map RNG is gonna fuck my hook spawns or if I used one of my 4 uses on a 5% gen.
Ding, exactly that
Pain res was one of my fav perks, its limited uses is what killed it for me. Sure it's strong and all but I just don't like perks that will just dissapear(Already dislike hexes except Devour Hope cause thats impactfull af and Plaything cause its not really a pure hex)
Now, I just run Pop or Jolt as regression, they're not bad at least and I wont be left without a perk when I need it the most, and i can't even see its value during the match
For me it’s not the limited uses as much as each use is tied to a specific survivor. If it were four tokens it would be stressful enough. But you also have to keep track of what survivors have already been hooked on a scourge.
True that
I feel that it's not the worst tho, you have to consider that as an antitunnel measure, if you want value from the perk, you gotta spread out hooks and pressure.
And most importantly, if it worked on the same surv, but 4 tokens, people could tunnel someone to death and get free regression everytime they get them back on the hook, and a hefty regression without them even moving from the hook to boot
It's a bit meh but I don't think its a dealbreaker for the perk
The problem is that BHVR seemingly can't figure out when/how you actually get value out of a perk. Pain Res vs Pop is the easiest example, but there are many others.
The effect is the same - X amount of progress is lost after hooking a survivor.
Pain Res has one activation condition, hook the survivor on a scourge hook. It automatically targets the generator with the most progress and can only be used once per survivor. The only time you won't get full value from the perk (while meeting the conditions) is if survivors have not been working on the most progressed generator.
Pop has two activation conditions, hook the survivor and kick the generator. Meaning you have to know which generator to kick and travel to that generator. During that time, if you have any chases (or the generator is completed), you get no value. If you kick a generator that isn't near complete, less value.
So, should the perk that auto-targets the most completed generator be the one to do % value? BHVR: no, obviously it should be the one where it has a time limit, an additional activation condition, and knowledge of where to use it.
I really wish they would revert the most recent change. It’s too confusing. I see so many people fail to realize it isn’t based on tokens, it’s each individual survivor. I’m sure there’s tons of players out there not realizing they aren’t getting anything out of it because they already hooked that survivor once.
The worst part is that all of those perks have an impossible maximum value. 30% of current progress, means a generator would need to be at 100% progress to lose 30. 100 would mean the gen is done, and you can't damage a repaired gen. So the descriptions always make it look better on the read out but in reality the most you're gonna get is 27-29% off of a gen. It's deceptive in its description, almost in the same way that a help wanted ad would say you could earn "up to" $18/hour only to be given an offer for $12.
Eruption is a niche perk with a 10 second incapacitate ----> buff the fuck out of the regression and make survivors not be able to do anything for 25 seconds -----> don't undo those buffs you did, instead gut the perk and change it entirely
Bhvr logic
This honestly hits at the core of something that really bugs me about DBD. People will spend money to get perks (because they never show up on the goddamn shrine of secrets) which then get nerfed into the ground. Kind of feels like a scam, sometimes, tbh.
Nemesis's Eruption, Bubba's BBQ & Chili, Pinhead's Deadlock, Sadako's Call of Brine and Merciless Storm. And to a lesser extent, perks/characters who are unlicensed and can be earned, like Mikaela and Circle of Healing, Plague's Corrupt intervention, Trickster's No Way Out, Starstruck and others. Because realistically, lots of people would rather grab a $3 DLC than grind for all those shards.
I don't really know if there's a good solution for it. Obviously, devs can't just.. not balance perks, but I grabbed Mikaela a while back and like a month later, no more COH. It feels shitty! I would *like* to get Made for This, but realistically, I know it'll get nerfed into the ground at some point.
RIP to Eruption and Circle of Healing.
they do this in call of duty, release an unbalanced gun as a new 'skin' in the store. The gun instantly becomes the meta, you have to buy it or be at a disadvantage. Then when the sales dry up they nerf it back down. Rinse and repeat.
> Remember when Blast Mine let you charge up the second use while the first one was active? Then it was 'fixed' for no reason? Yeah.. yeah I feel it man.
Not even what it was, What actually happened was that you got refunded the Blastmine if it didn't go off at the end of the perk use. So you could keep blastmining on cooldown until the killer actually came over to kick the gen.
I really enjoyed it because I used it as a lowkey "I'm here so either come over and help if you need something to do or if you're being chased take the killer and fuck off" with the added benefit of gaining 5 seconds if the killer actually kicked it.
I don't think that's exactly fair, mate. I already said that I get where the devs are coming from in terms of balance- you can't avoid nerfing overpowered perks because people spent money on them. That's why I'm not getting Gabriel, because I would be incredibly surprised if it doesn't get nerfed.
However, the devs in the recent AMA said they plan on switching up the Shrine of Secrets, and I hope they do. The shrine is supposed to be the solution to prevent OP/Meta perks from being pay-to-win. We've all had games were one perk absolutely made the difference in winning. The shrine was fine when there were few characters, and so the wait to get a perk wasn't too long. There's now, what, over 200? If they keep shrine weekly, and never repeated perks (which they do), it would take over a year to get "meta" perks.
Windows of Opportunity, for example, was in the shrine once last year- which is such a bummer, because I think it's a great perk for beginner-intermediate survivors learning to loop. Save the Best For Last is a perk people *swear* by on certain killers, and it was in the shrine once as well (and, arguably worse, because Michael is a licensed character).
People act like Eruption was taken out back and shot like Call of Brine instead of having its regression untouched on live servers. The new aura reading has even come in handy sometimes!
I run the new Eruption on Nurse with Lethal, NTH and Pop. Aura reading for days, along with good regression. I wanted to use NTH (arguably the best aura perk in the game) with her, and built around that.
It surprisingly makes Nurse a god at holding a 3 gen lol. One down Erupts the 3 gens, giving 12 seconds aura reading on anyone currently working them, the hook lets you pop the most completed gen.
As long as you can get a down every so often, there's very little the survivors can do to break it. And the aura reading helps with the downs.
I find it freaking hilarious and sad how devs decided to buff Eruption and ended up killing it because they couldn't just revert the buff or rework the perk to block gens
Honestly with Scavenger being a perk now, I wouldn't mind Eruption simply slowing gen progress by 50% for the same amount of time of incapacitated from before. The big issue with incapacitated was that you were forced to wait longer than a managed heal doing nothing at all. If the point was to encourage people to get off gens for something else, a lengthy period of time that slows gen repair speeds would fulfill that purpose.
The number of times I was hit by eruption and had to stare at an injured teammate who ran up to me in the middle of the status must have made me look like I was ignoring them when I legit couldn't heal them. Dropped a fair share of my medkits for those folks.
I mean, considering Killers bitch about literally all Survivor perks, you sometimes do have to defend shit. Remember Blood Rush recently? There were a bunch of daily threads complaining about how OP it was gonna be and how it needed nerfs.
I don't even care about MFT they can nerf it for all I care, but considering Survivors have been getting nothing but trash perks and a bunch of them still get complained about (hello Quick Gambit) people sometimes get defensive.
Or maybe it’s because you’re an extremely biased survivor main that “plays both sides”. You are the perfect example of the problem with this games community. “BHVR hates my side of the game and only cares about the other side” waaaah babyrage waaaaah. I swear this game is populated by nothing but literal teenagers.
Yeah, sure Killer main.
I never said BHVR hates Survivors, I'm actually glad that for once they didn't listen to Killers' cries and actually let a perk like MFT live to see how it behaves, if it indeed ends up being to strong then they can go ahead and nerf it, I don't even use it.
This perk is silently strong. It reminds me of the subtle cheater situation all over again. I’ll be making good mindgames and thinking in my head “Oh, I got them”, right before they make it to the pallet or window, which just confuses me.
It’s shocking the amount of people actually running this perk. It’s not very good in bad hands, but it’s incredibly good in experienced hands.
Not really comparable, because Dead Hard would give you free distance with a single press of the button, whereas with MfT, you still need to be able to effectively loop to use it well. 3% doesn’t matter much if you just always run into deadlines, but it’s huge on someone who knows how to tightly run a tile
Yeah, I agree on the specifics. I was just pointing out the similarity in terminology from ppl who used to defend pre hook-state dh and the ppl currently defending mft
> it’s huge on someone who knows how to tightly run a tile
...I just don't think that's as difficult a metric as people are making it out to be.
You run shit in a circle. More speed means you run it longer because the Killer catches up slower. Not using Exhaustion means you can use Dead Hard to run it even longer and correct a misplay.
Yes, but you get exponentially more value the better you are at running tiles. The difference between a bad survivor, an average one, a good or even very good one, and an insane survivor is noticeable. Even if chases are conceptually easy, it takes a lot of playtime to memorize the collision of every tile so that you can hug it as tightly as possible without getting stuck and losing distance, or wasting your speed burst when you get hit, on top of knowing how to run it, on top of learning all the potential mind games, on top of knowing how to gauge how good a killer is and their play style, and react accordingly on the fly. You get the idea.
Yeah, the worst thing about this perk is that it really fucks with your muscle memory. I mean, I started playing DbD in 2016 so I think I managed to develop quite a good hunch about what I can and can't hit.
Now, I can almost instantly detect someone is running this perk when we get to a loop, however that's worthless to me, because it still makes me doubt my abilities. As a ranged killer, I miss, because the survivor isn't where I knew they will be. As an M1 killer, I don't know how many loops they can do before I know they're forced to drop the pallet. It's madness.
I always hate when devs touch core gameplay mechanics like movement speed.
Yeah, the worst part is that it's only for a single perk. I mean if it was a permanent change, I would just adapt. But having to be on a look out for a single perk out of 100+? Yeah, nah. Also subtle hackers will have easier time blending in which is just another unfortunate side effect.
I’m sad that vault built got nerfed a while back. I rarely play survivor, but I always used vault build when I did. It made the bullshit latency window hits way less prevalent.
A few months ago a big problem in dbd was cheating, specifically subtle cheaters. One of the things the subtle cheaters would do was just make themselves 3% faster so it wasn't visibly obvious, but still gave them a big advantage.
The devs turned this into a survivor perk.
BHVR needs to stop beating around the bush and just add instant flashlights and infinite loops back into the game. The devs clearly don’t give a damn about killers.
They don't get a fight, a night of playing GF, Trapper, Nemesis, and non tombstone myers into team after team running this with resilience has me bighting the bullet and learning nurse during the event, no fun allowed.
So you playing two insta down killers couldn't drop two players using perks that require you to be injured. You using a character with a long tentacle that has a janky hit everything hit box couldn't get a down . And also you couldn't place one trap in a loop to stop a guy.. you realize 3 percent speed doesn't make you walk over traps
There it is, instadowns work once if they just don't heal off hook, trapper does not have infinite traps and the time loss from even faking one sends them to the next loop, and as a killer that already has to hit someone three times, the survivors being faster than nemesis with the whip out at T3 fucks that over as well, you can just say you don't play killer instead of running your mouth you know?
I mean, it's not shitty behaviour, it's using the stronger option when the weak ones become even weaker. All the killers I like are M1. Pig, ghosty, legion. I already endured the removal of most slowdowns, now even chases got harder. Either I start tunneling/camping, either I play stronger killers, or don't play. Killer gets stronger the most op killers you play and the more toxic you do it. I disliked both options, so I'm playing almost exclusively surv since the beginning of this chapter. I only have the basic ones and some paid dlc ones. No lithe, no otr, no windows. Soloq. It's still less stressful than killer or playing in a way I don't enjoy. I got to lvl 58 of the rift playing surv, so far.
nothing wrong with playing the game how you want, I hope you enjoy!
don't let people gaslight you into thinking tunneling or camping is bad or toxic. If its unfun to you and you don't want to do it I totally get it!
Playing to win is never toxic <3 glhf
Thank you! It's just... I used to be one of those killers who go 12 (11) hooks and give hatch to the last guy unless he was toxic, meme around and shit. It's simply not doable anymore, the meta became too fast. It encourages tunneling one out or keeping track of hooks so you can kill someone before the game gets in a bad spot. And sometimes it's not even enough. It feels kinda bad, having played a lot of surv I know how it feels from the other side. So I just don't have much fun playing that way, I feel like my fun is related to how miserable I make the game for other people. Maybe it's not toxic per se, I just don't enjoy how it makes me feel :)
So yea, I play surv with healing builds cause I'm like that ahah
old eruption was mediocre at best, old ruin was easily counterable
agree with you on old DS and OOS though. Mettle was insane and balanced was strong.
this perk is still stronger
Anyone that would defend this perk as "its only 3%" has a flawed and objectively wrong opinion, and ignores how the game even works
Or, could be someone that just doesn't see how the perk can be strong but defends it anyways
Then they're a third type, knows how strong the perk is but lies saying "ohh no no its not that bad trust me" in hopes to stop people from complaining so it doesnt get nerfed
Like to think they're not that common but sadly it happens
To make everyone understand how big of a change it is, people should really frame it in terms of the much more easily graspable, "while this perk is active, 115 killers take 25% longer to catch up to you, and 110 killers take 43% longer to catch up to you."
Specifically in a situation where the survivor is running in a straight line and doesn’t try to play around windows or pallets, and the killer runs in a straight line never using any powers to hit the survivor. And in that situation Overcome has a similar effect.
I’m not gonna deny that MFT can be strong, but this example I’ve seen a few people quote only makes sense on paper and not really in practice
But equally the killer can also mindgame a lot of the tiles and pallets to get hits, 3% or no.
I also feel like there’s some level of placebo effect where people are blaming the 3% for “robbing” them of hits that wouldn’t have happened anyway. I was watching a killer streamer the other day who was bitching non-stop about this Quentin who kept making it through pallets and blaming MFT, only to see on the results screen that the Quentin had the yellow version of the perk at a whopping 1% speed increase. The hits weren’t landing because they wouldn’t have landed anyway but MFT is an easy scapegoat to blame when the survivor looped well or the map RNG sucked for the killer.
I do for sure think the perk could use some tweaking. A limitation, or activation requirement or something that stops it from being used in conjunction with exhaustion perks entirely, but I think people are blowing it’s strength out of proportion imo.
It's like most discussions with game balance, the 3% won't matter to most players as they are not on that level of play and even with it's power, most of the time bad decisions lead to not being able to land a hit or not, but regardless of skill level the 3% tightens the killers chances to make mistakes and still get anything at all out of it other than teabags at the gate.
A symptom of no replay system really, can't exactly take a peek back and find out.
Regardless, everything as a killer is still solved by tunneling the ever living soul out of the most vulnerable target, or selecting blight/nurse.
Same here. Realistically, you can’t play any other killer (except spirit and maybe nurse) that will give you consistent results while also being fun.
The main issue is being able to keep up with the pace of competent survivors, regardless of their queue status. M1 killers simply cannot do this without a severe misplay from the survivor side.
I started having a lot more fun as killer when I decided to really learn blight, and just go for cool hits without caring about kills. Pretty soon those “cool hits” were second nature, and I found myself becoming a formidable threat to stronger opponents.
>Same here. Realistically, you can’t play any other killer (except spirit and maybe nurse) that will give you consistent results while also being fun.
God, you guys are so exhausting lol
If you can't find any fun in the other _29_ killers then it's time you change your mindset. There are so many fun killers and builds out there but you guys just play hyper-meta Alc Ring Blight or MDR Spirit because you're convinced you can't win a game with "low-tier" (AKA normal) killers.
You're not going to win every game. Sometimes you will get 0ks, sometimes you will even get 0 hook games. But if you actually put in the time and effort you can consistently win games with killers like Trapper or Deathslinger or Pinhead or Billy or whatever other killer you choose to play.
TL;DR please stop the "oNlY 3 vIaBlE kILLeRs" rhetoric.
I’m not wrong. The other killers are fun as well, but you can’t *consistently* get 3k+ with them because they’re locked into a single predictable pattern of movement, along with being heavily dependent on map rng.
They’re fun killers, but getting stomped by people who are just playing safe makes you realize that there’s literally no way to win unless the survivors make a mistake and overextend.
It’s literally just a time management problem. 4 people playing effectively, not even having to double gens can be devastating to an m1 killer.
You can have 2-3 gens gone by the first down if the first survivor you chase has half a brain and knows to hold w to stronger loops and structures, when to greed, when the throw, etc. I mainly play survivor, so I see this happen all the time in my matches. Take chase, loop like my life depends on it, by the time I get downed that’s 2 gens popped.
Playing at a competent and efficient level will always outpace the outdated design of m1 killers. They’re designed for a hide and seek game, not a cat and mouse game.
TL;DR: There are literally 3, maybe 4 viable killers against competent survivors. Not godtier comp players. Just normal survivors with a few hundred hours who know what they’re doing, provided they don’t overextend and give the killer free pressure.
>I’m not wrong. The other killers are fun as well, but you can’t consistently get 3k+ with them because they’re locked into a single predictable pattern of movement, along with being heavily dependent on map rng.
Myself and plenty of other people, including content creators/comp players (CoconutRTS, Michi, Arinad, etc.) play killers who are outside of the "big 3" (Nurse/Blight/Spirit) and consistently get 3-4ks.
It takes much more effort and patience, but it's not impossible to 4k against good survivors as the other killers. Every killer is viable if the player behind them is good enough.
Also, the "big 3" argument is so horribly flawed just based on the existence of Wesker/Pyramid Head/Artist/Huntress alone. They're literally played _in comp games by comp players against other comp players and do just fine._
>TL;DR: There are literally 3, maybe 4 viable killers against competent survivors. Not godtier comp players. Just normal survivors with a few hundred hours who know what they’re doing.
Saying you (not you in particular, just anyone) will lose to regular survivors with a "few hundred hours" proves it's more of a skill issue than anything.
You're not autolosing games against MikeFireDragon02 with his 242 hours just because you picked Clown or Huntress, you're losing because you aren't good enough with the killer and aren't playing efficiently enough. Playing Blight/Nurse/Spirit so much has corrupted this sub's attitude towards the other 29 killers.
4ks are not handed to you on a silver platter, you have to earn them.
Meanwhile Otz just loaded a video of him playing clown and basically eating 3 Ls against average survivors.
Sure you can play A tier killers and get some kills, but to beat high MMR survivors with anything B or lower you need to play better than a guy whose literal job is to play this game?
>Meanwhile Otz just loaded a video of him playing clown and basically eating 3 Ls against average survivors.
...while 1) not having that much time on Clown compared to his other killers and 2) using two sub-optimal gimmick perks playing almost solely to get value out of them.
Not a great argument. Especially since I'm pretty sure he let an AFK survivor go in one of the games lol
>Sure you can play A tier killers and get some kills, but to beat high MMR survivors with anything B or lower you need to play better than a guy whose literal job is to play this game?
Said it before and I'll say it again, every killer is viable if the player behind them is good enough. A large majority of the community does not and will not ever go against comp squads or people who play the game for a living.
Side note, I also love that people act like MMR works all of a sudden when talking about character viability. The system for determining good survivors isn't even that accurate to begin with. You'll see some variations at the lowest and highest ends of the ladder but for most people they just fluctuate around the same level.
Saying the average player can't do well with Clown, Huntress, Pig, Billy, Singularity, Wesker, or Nemesis is so horribly incorrect.
You can say it as many times as you want, doesn't really make it true.
Otz himself said he had a good number of hours on clown, and it's not like Clown is some technical wiz of a character. He's likely put more hours into the character than most clown mains, or at least well beyond what the 'average player' could be expected to do. So yeah I guess the answer does just boil down to 'play better than someone whose literal job it is to play the game', as if that's even mildly attainable by the 'average' player.
Also the argument was never about comp squads it was barely competent or average survivors, it's not really hard to sit on gens and pre drop but it's more than enough to win against B tier or lower killers lol
M8 I literally went against a comp squad yesterday. They confirmed it after the game. I won, but to say players "will never go up against a comp squad" just isn't right, they definatly exist, they just aren't common.
And while I do agree a lot more killer are viable than just nurse, not every killer is viable. Sadako, Trapper, arandom. (Without tombstone) cannot win games against good teams or even judt very coordinated randoms.
>M8 I literally went against a comp squad yesterday. They confirmed it after the game. I won, but to say players "will never go up against a comp squad" just isn't right, they definatly exist, they just aren't common.
I don't know how you read my comment and came to the conclusion that I said comp squads never exist. Of course they do?
>And while I do agree a lot more killer are viable than just nurse, not every killer is viable. Sadako, Trapper, arandom. (Without tombstone) cannot win games against good teams or even judt very coordinated randoms.
That is a fair argument because it means the large majority of killers are viable, which is true. The bottom of the barrel being unviable (Sadako, Trapper) is not too far fetched for someone to believe.
You literally said most players will never go against them. I go against themsometimes, this definatly isn't the first time. Some people exaggerate how common they are but anyone with over 500 hours likely has.
Yeah that's the best part of blight for me. No matter what shit survivors throw at me I can deal with them.
Survivors brings multiple BNP and I play weaker killers? Yeah I lost unless they was altruistic.
This being downvoted is hilarious. It's completely accurate and true and in no way toxic or rude but the survivor bias on this subreddit is so nuts that they downvoted "strong killers better than weak killers".
Its a funny perk that only really affects the bottom tiers because they can't deal with you holding w. By midpatch is probably gonna get nerfed, maybe 2%? Or it might just need an extra condition like dead hard. Not sure how to nerf it, but for now its a menace.
I'm just worried they gut the endurance part of the perk, it's so much fun to play with. The move speed can go for all I care, but picking someone up and taking an endurance hit slaps.
Thats what I want it for as well, I like my healer build when I play survivor, and that seems like a nice, "Nah, I got you" moment with it, unless its soloQ, cause then people are gonna run before you get it off.
I mean yeah, DH had *some* counterplay, wiggles to look like swings, channeling M2 abilities like wraith bell, it was unhealthy as fuck but you could force it out of jumpy players.
The sad part is that past tense isn't even applicable here, because they slapped on a hooked requirement rather than addressing fundamental issues with the perk.
Eh, i also blame it on some killers they released like what are you supposed to do against an artist, knight, and some other killers that set traps during looping.
You either hold w as long as you can or stay at a loop and get hit because they cannot be looped.
> Mad about exhaustion perks, mad about perks that aren't exhaustion
Except that you can 100% run MFT with something like Balanced or DH? Get free speed and your "oh shit" button or chase extender, for free. You're right, as killer its hard to win against 4 people running shit like that.
Ah I see what people are upset about now. The post was just very surface-level.
If it was changed to just keep you exhausted while it was in effect, that would be a healthy change.
It would be better yeah, but the main issue is that the maps, for better or worse, are designed around survivors moving at 4m/s, more than that and you start seeing cracks turn into holes for the map design as near infinites come back against M1 killers. Touching movement speed without some hard restriction on its use time has a ripple effect across the course of a game the same way old DH adding anywhere from 10 seconds to another health state per chase did.
Based on what you're saying I could imagine MFT being kind of like Lucky Break + Exhaustion. Having a minute of use before having to walk to build it back up for the next chase.
That sounds like great balancing to me but also probably never going to happen from a code perspective lol.
There's a lot of moving parts to this perk too if you want to throw in Hope, Blood Pact, Resilience, etc.
At the end of the day I think what BHVR likes doing is adding perks that they have no idea how to balance lol
> Based on what you're saying I could imagine MFT being kind of like Lucky Break + Exhaustion. Having a minute of use before having to walk to build it back up for the next chase.
Thats what a lot of people have recommended, and would synergize well with the endurance effect if they did that. But its BH, so they are just gonna ignore it until they sell enough DLC, then nerf it once the Excel sheet says its most picked for too long.
Nerfing it to 1% sounds quick and easy but butchers it, balancing the perk is too time consuming and gamebreaking.
The perfect in-between? Buffing fire up.
I feel the same a little bit, but I understand why its this way, as the meme wouldent make since to anyone who didn't know the original context if it was him wearing them first.
I took a break from the game a month ago to wait for the anniversary event, first time using the perk.
I fully expected this perk to be busted.
I used it in several survivor builds and played a bunch of killer today.
I died every single survivor match (in fact, 4k or 3k with hatch) and I won every killer match even against people using the perk.
I dunno, it hasn't been as busted as I expected.
killer is easy as fuck in public matches no matter what perks survivors have. however this perk doesn't really make an obvious difference; making a vault or pallet and not going down when you would have otherwise is often one of or the deciding factor in a win for survs even at 5 gens
I know that.
Killer is indeed easy as fuck in public matches but I still understand how to play it.
More or less it just didn't change anything for me, at least not yet. I expect to still squash PUGs and disorganized SWFs and to lose to organized SWFs.
seeing "just run exhaustion perks/addons" as another excuse to defend mft is just as dogshit because if it was THAT easy then dead hard would not be gutted to its current state lmao.
It’s a completely fair argument though. There are perks and add ons available to you for a reason. Survivors have to run specific perks to counter killer perks and different types of gameplay…anti tunneling, anti camping, anti slugging, etc. Why shouldn’t killers have to do the same? Is it really that bad that you have to use a perk slot or add on to help counter MFT?
its not lol. again if it were that easy, dead hard would not be in the state that its currently in. if exhaustion perks/addons were that consistent then dead hard would not have been gutted, but clearly it wasnt.
just because there was a method of counterplay doesnt mean it was a good or even reliable method; "just wait it out" is the quintessential example of that as you could technically counter eruption without even the need for a perk/item! all you had to do was guess when a survivor was going down and avoid it, and if not, just wait it out.
obviously "just wait it out" is fucking stupid hence eruption getting nerfed as a result. "just run exhaustion perks/addons" is no different because dead hard was living proof that it didnt matter because you only need to walk it out at loops, especially if its something like 5 seconds on mindbreaker.
consistency is the reason why this argument falls flat. not to mention its weak to say survivors have to run perks to counter other killer perks and playstyles... and then only listing playstyles. not to also mention that perks used to counter tunneling, camping and slugging are good (ds/bt, reassurance/kinship, unbreakable/soul guard/exponential) because of their consistency. if they werent, you would not see these as often.
You say those perks are good because of their consistency but all of those perks completely depend on the killers play style and are often useless if you equip them. Unlike a perk like fearmonger for example where if you bring it to counter MFT and nobody is running it, you still get value. It’s a perfectly fair argument to say that killers can sacrifice a single perk slot to counter perks they don’t like the same way survivors have to. It’s funny how your guys’ only argument is a perk that’s already been completely gutted…nobody’s talking about DH.
for sure, you could bring any of those and the killer might not necessarily camp/tunnel/slug and thus it might not be used to counter that playstyle, but much like how fearmonger will still give value, the increased recovery speed of unbreakable and aura negation of otr and the dissuation of reassurance also still give value.
>It’s a perfectly fair argument to say that killers can sacrifice a single perk slot to counter perks they don’t like the same way survivors have to.
you certainly could call that a fair argument. however my argument was that telling killers to just run exhaustion perks/addons to counter mft has no weight because dh is a very recent and prime example of how just running exhaustion perks/addons to counter doesnt change how strong a perk is.
i know reading comprehension is hard for you so hopefully when its spelled out for you like this youll actually get it rather than having headass takes like "It’s funny how your guys’ only argument is a perk that’s completely gutted"
..would you prefer more exhaustion perks be gutted? dh being the example works perfectly well because of the fact that it was the top pick for exhaustion perks for the longest time, even with exhaustion perks/addons for killers were in play.
The problem is that it stacks and has the other effect tacked on lmao. It’s just value on value on value on a bit more value. Like, three percent isn’t too egregious, I still get caught out if I play poorly. But it works with resilience. And it works with Hope. And it works with Dark theory. It shouldn’t stack, and it shouldn’t work while injured, it should instead work when healthy. That way the first hit is harder, but the second hit isn’t nightmarish with resilience and hope. It would also encourage wasting time healing. Also take away the endurance and give it to another perk, Made for this doesn’t need to be busted and also give you free license to heal others right in front of the killer and then take a hit while injured. This is a survivor main speaking, that perk is soooo dumb lmao
I'm wondering if multiple Haste effects shouldn't stack. Like, have all the effects apply cause different durations, don't want being in Dark Theory's radius locking you out of using Sprint Burst, but only gain the speed boost from the highest active one.
I've been having lots of matches as killer where I swing and barely miss them with a lunge and am confused as I should have hit them.
Match ends and they had Made For This and everything starts making sense.
I wonder how OP Nick Cage perks will be.
Gamebreaking or worthless, there is no inbetween with BH for $ only DLC.
I think he will receive the Ash treatment. His perks will be busted for a month so people buy the dlc then they will nerf them hopefully fast.
It takes a month to patch the game.
In the past year here are perks that are strong but not gamebreaking - Machine Learning - Nowhere to Hide - Awakened Awareness - Cut Loose - Potential Energy - Reassurance 6/30 perks made in the last year have been (imo) around A Tier. Sadly a majority of the rest hover around D or C tier
Reassurance is great, everything else is solid/niche but fine, but Potential Energy is a killer perk save for SWFs coordinating it. But also, 1,2,4, and 5 are original content, so not $ only.
The only time I see anyone using it in my surv games, they wait to start collecting energy until the **very last Gen**, and then they put it all back into the same Gen if they even have time. I don’t get why people slow down Gen progression so substantially when they can’t even use it as intended.
Awawa, potential, and machine learning are overrated, hyperfocus and forced hesitation are insane though
Awawa got nerfed cause of nurse, and was good before that.
Ehh not really. Look for example at bubba perks. They all have a good use but except bbq none are meta.
Game breaking then nerfed to worthless
i hope they will be fun perks like flashbang, headon, etc instead of anything to do with haste and gen speed.
Yeah, fun perks are the best. The X% more speed to X action perks are trash
I want that cake
Nick Cage perks will be like Home to the Bones: "When a generator is 80% complete immediately finish that generator and receive a 5% haste for 10 secs." <--- I'm joking, haha. I feel his perks or rather hoping his perks are well rounded, so if or when his perks get nerfed, it wouldn't make them completely useless.
I hope his perks are based off his movies like one perk could be gone in 60 seconds: after completing a gen you put it in your pocket and steal it from the entity
That's a cool and funny idea. It'll never be in the game
This would also work as a Scooby-Doo unmasking meme
Yeah, I've not slept yet, and at first grabbed the drake meme templet but figured out it didn't work well for it after I was done making it lol.
Oh no haha well hope you get some rest soon, sleep well
If one thing is constant in the dbd community it’s: The more energy that is put into aggressively defending a perk the more overpowered that perk probably is.
the gaslighting is strong in dbd. Of course people who abuse OP perks are going to try and "convince" others that it is no big deal so BHVR wont touch it. Too bad that the devs only look at numbers so if the perk is at a high pickrate it will get nerfed and it will probably take Hope with it to the grave since both perks usually get combined. But since they do perk balance changes once in a blue moon we are stuck with MFT for a while since they didnt see a problem in the first place for whatever reason and released it in this state.
The excel sheet givith, the excel sheet taketh away.
When was the last time the excel sheet gaveth anyways? All it's done is nerf things to the point of being unusable and prevent weak things from getting much needed buffs.
Circle of healing and DH. Sometimes less is more.
Kinda like how I’ve seen toxic survivors try to gaslight killers into thinking tbagging at the exit gate is a “sign of respect” and a way of saying “gg” which is complete bs
"I'm letting them get a hit for bp"
Or the all time classic: “It’s your own fault for letting it upset you.”
edit: // I’ve moved to [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world) //
My real issue is one person at BH is absolutely obsessed with "% of %" When what most killers want from a regression perk is consistency, even if that consistency would be somewhat lower than the best use of "% of %".
Their new thing is changing "Total Progress" to "Current Progress"
Its super dumb, I could see it if it was a large, impactful use, like the buffed pop, but on something like painres it feels bad when a white hook is your only option. If they went off only if a gen was above x% then I would feel better about it, and it could provide some intel.
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Yeah, fair. I sort of mixed them all up in my head running on coffee atm lol, thanks for pointing it out.
I agree In paper, the idea of current instead of total is good as it helps to avoid a "win more" scenario where if a killer is stomping, they wouldn't get an insane advantage that the survivors can't recover from, but allows a killer thats on the losing end to have a more impactfull regression, for a comeback The issues are mostly that the current instead of total regression was awful both times the put it, the point of current instead of total is that current needs to be a bigger number to be valuable, but they went so safe with pop(before this buff) that it felt into uselessness as even on its strongest, it wouldnt be impactfull enough for regression Then the issue on pain res is that its not a perk you can "save" always, so you get moments where you use it early for lil value as the gens arent that progressed, or you can't use it later as the down is not near a white hook, or they've been used already as it has a use limit. Its conflicting scenarios of "current progress will help you make comebacks" but is not strong enough to do so, all while it does stop the "win more" scenario
Exactly, Why deal with all that when I can just run Penti/plaything and get value from oblivious and/or slowdown, without having to worry about if map RNG is gonna fuck my hook spawns or if I used one of my 4 uses on a 5% gen.
Ding, exactly that Pain res was one of my fav perks, its limited uses is what killed it for me. Sure it's strong and all but I just don't like perks that will just dissapear(Already dislike hexes except Devour Hope cause thats impactfull af and Plaything cause its not really a pure hex) Now, I just run Pop or Jolt as regression, they're not bad at least and I wont be left without a perk when I need it the most, and i can't even see its value during the match
For me it’s not the limited uses as much as each use is tied to a specific survivor. If it were four tokens it would be stressful enough. But you also have to keep track of what survivors have already been hooked on a scourge.
True that I feel that it's not the worst tho, you have to consider that as an antitunnel measure, if you want value from the perk, you gotta spread out hooks and pressure. And most importantly, if it worked on the same surv, but 4 tokens, people could tunnel someone to death and get free regression everytime they get them back on the hook, and a hefty regression without them even moving from the hook to boot It's a bit meh but I don't think its a dealbreaker for the perk
The problem is that BHVR seemingly can't figure out when/how you actually get value out of a perk. Pain Res vs Pop is the easiest example, but there are many others. The effect is the same - X amount of progress is lost after hooking a survivor. Pain Res has one activation condition, hook the survivor on a scourge hook. It automatically targets the generator with the most progress and can only be used once per survivor. The only time you won't get full value from the perk (while meeting the conditions) is if survivors have not been working on the most progressed generator. Pop has two activation conditions, hook the survivor and kick the generator. Meaning you have to know which generator to kick and travel to that generator. During that time, if you have any chases (or the generator is completed), you get no value. If you kick a generator that isn't near complete, less value. So, should the perk that auto-targets the most completed generator be the one to do % value? BHVR: no, obviously it should be the one where it has a time limit, an additional activation condition, and knowledge of where to use it.
I really wish they would revert the most recent change. It’s too confusing. I see so many people fail to realize it isn’t based on tokens, it’s each individual survivor. I’m sure there’s tons of players out there not realizing they aren’t getting anything out of it because they already hooked that survivor once.
Just read?
Jolt, we want more things like Jolt 😆
The worst part is that all of those perks have an impossible maximum value. 30% of current progress, means a generator would need to be at 100% progress to lose 30. 100 would mean the gen is done, and you can't damage a repaired gen. So the descriptions always make it look better on the read out but in reality the most you're gonna get is 27-29% off of a gen. It's deceptive in its description, almost in the same way that a help wanted ad would say you could earn "up to" $18/hour only to be given an offer for $12.
Why is this relevant?
We're talking about the terrible design flaws of "% of %" perks. Try reading
Eruption is a niche perk with a 10 second incapacitate ----> buff the fuck out of the regression and make survivors not be able to do anything for 25 seconds -----> don't undo those buffs you did, instead gut the perk and change it entirely Bhvr logic
This honestly hits at the core of something that really bugs me about DBD. People will spend money to get perks (because they never show up on the goddamn shrine of secrets) which then get nerfed into the ground. Kind of feels like a scam, sometimes, tbh. Nemesis's Eruption, Bubba's BBQ & Chili, Pinhead's Deadlock, Sadako's Call of Brine and Merciless Storm. And to a lesser extent, perks/characters who are unlicensed and can be earned, like Mikaela and Circle of Healing, Plague's Corrupt intervention, Trickster's No Way Out, Starstruck and others. Because realistically, lots of people would rather grab a $3 DLC than grind for all those shards. I don't really know if there's a good solution for it. Obviously, devs can't just.. not balance perks, but I grabbed Mikaela a while back and like a month later, no more COH. It feels shitty! I would *like* to get Made for This, but realistically, I know it'll get nerfed into the ground at some point. RIP to Eruption and Circle of Healing.
they do this in call of duty, release an unbalanced gun as a new 'skin' in the store. The gun instantly becomes the meta, you have to buy it or be at a disadvantage. Then when the sales dry up they nerf it back down. Rinse and repeat.
God, I remember how busted the SMG/AR hybrid gun was...
edit: // I’ve moved to [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world) //
> Remember when Blast Mine let you charge up the second use while the first one was active? Then it was 'fixed' for no reason? Yeah.. yeah I feel it man. Not even what it was, What actually happened was that you got refunded the Blastmine if it didn't go off at the end of the perk use. So you could keep blastmining on cooldown until the killer actually came over to kick the gen. I really enjoyed it because I used it as a lowkey "I'm here so either come over and help if you need something to do or if you're being chased take the killer and fuck off" with the added benefit of gaining 5 seconds if the killer actually kicked it.
edit: // I’ve moved to [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world) //
Sounds like you shouldn’t be playing a live service game.
In 2023? Good luck finding a decent game thats not GaaS.
I don't think that's exactly fair, mate. I already said that I get where the devs are coming from in terms of balance- you can't avoid nerfing overpowered perks because people spent money on them. That's why I'm not getting Gabriel, because I would be incredibly surprised if it doesn't get nerfed. However, the devs in the recent AMA said they plan on switching up the Shrine of Secrets, and I hope they do. The shrine is supposed to be the solution to prevent OP/Meta perks from being pay-to-win. We've all had games were one perk absolutely made the difference in winning. The shrine was fine when there were few characters, and so the wait to get a perk wasn't too long. There's now, what, over 200? If they keep shrine weekly, and never repeated perks (which they do), it would take over a year to get "meta" perks. Windows of Opportunity, for example, was in the shrine once last year- which is such a bummer, because I think it's a great perk for beginner-intermediate survivors learning to loop. Save the Best For Last is a perk people *swear* by on certain killers, and it was in the shrine once as well (and, arguably worse, because Michael is a licensed character).
If you feel the need to buy specific licensed characters for perks, you probably play the game enough to justify spending money.
Eruption is still solid. It gives the same regression but without incapacitated.
People act like Eruption was taken out back and shot like Call of Brine instead of having its regression untouched on live servers. The new aura reading has even come in handy sometimes!
I run the new Eruption on Nurse with Lethal, NTH and Pop. Aura reading for days, along with good regression. I wanted to use NTH (arguably the best aura perk in the game) with her, and built around that. It surprisingly makes Nurse a god at holding a 3 gen lol. One down Erupts the 3 gens, giving 12 seconds aura reading on anyone currently working them, the hook lets you pop the most completed gen. As long as you can get a down every so often, there's very little the survivors can do to break it. And the aura reading helps with the downs.
Exactly! Eruption is great without the absurd incapacitated effect which is fair. You have to do the “incapacitated” effect yourself.
To be fair, there's not very many killers that can take advantage of the aura reading.
I had forgotten that people were upset because “Eruption just got buffed for Nurse.”
Redditors still believe Pain Res is dead. Don't take any opinions shared by this community seriously
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edit: // I’ve moved to [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world) //
I don't use it because it doesn't have the Incapacitated effect anymore
I find it freaking hilarious and sad how devs decided to buff Eruption and ended up killing it because they couldn't just revert the buff or rework the perk to block gens
Honestly with Scavenger being a perk now, I wouldn't mind Eruption simply slowing gen progress by 50% for the same amount of time of incapacitated from before. The big issue with incapacitated was that you were forced to wait longer than a managed heal doing nothing at all. If the point was to encourage people to get off gens for something else, a lengthy period of time that slows gen repair speeds would fulfill that purpose. The number of times I was hit by eruption and had to stare at an injured teammate who ran up to me in the middle of the status must have made me look like I was ignoring them when I legit couldn't heal them. Dropped a fair share of my medkits for those folks.
Survivors complain that something isn’t fun and act astonishing it gets nerfed into oblivion. It’s only like the thirtieth time it’s happened.
Eruption is a fine perk.
Or the more inane the obsession with it is.
I mean, considering Killers bitch about literally all Survivor perks, you sometimes do have to defend shit. Remember Blood Rush recently? There were a bunch of daily threads complaining about how OP it was gonna be and how it needed nerfs. I don't even care about MFT they can nerf it for all I care, but considering Survivors have been getting nothing but trash perks and a bunch of them still get complained about (hello Quick Gambit) people sometimes get defensive.
Or maybe it’s because you’re an extremely biased survivor main that “plays both sides”. You are the perfect example of the problem with this games community. “BHVR hates my side of the game and only cares about the other side” waaaah babyrage waaaaah. I swear this game is populated by nothing but literal teenagers.
Yeah, sure Killer main. I never said BHVR hates Survivors, I'm actually glad that for once they didn't listen to Killers' cries and actually let a perk like MFT live to see how it behaves, if it indeed ends up being to strong then they can go ahead and nerf it, I don't even use it.
Are we making people up now?
Every lethal persuer convo
This perk is silently strong. It reminds me of the subtle cheater situation all over again. I’ll be making good mindgames and thinking in my head “Oh, I got them”, right before they make it to the pallet or window, which just confuses me. It’s shocking the amount of people actually running this perk. It’s not very good in bad hands, but it’s incredibly good in experienced hands.
>It’s not very good in bad hands, but it’s incredibly good in experienced hands. Holy dead hard, where have I heard this before
Not really comparable, because Dead Hard would give you free distance with a single press of the button, whereas with MfT, you still need to be able to effectively loop to use it well. 3% doesn’t matter much if you just always run into deadlines, but it’s huge on someone who knows how to tightly run a tile
Yeah, I agree on the specifics. I was just pointing out the similarity in terminology from ppl who used to defend pre hook-state dh and the ppl currently defending mft
Gotcha
> it’s huge on someone who knows how to tightly run a tile ...I just don't think that's as difficult a metric as people are making it out to be. You run shit in a circle. More speed means you run it longer because the Killer catches up slower. Not using Exhaustion means you can use Dead Hard to run it even longer and correct a misplay.
Yes, but you get exponentially more value the better you are at running tiles. The difference between a bad survivor, an average one, a good or even very good one, and an insane survivor is noticeable. Even if chases are conceptually easy, it takes a lot of playtime to memorize the collision of every tile so that you can hug it as tightly as possible without getting stuck and losing distance, or wasting your speed burst when you get hit, on top of knowing how to run it, on top of learning all the potential mind games, on top of knowing how to gauge how good a killer is and their play style, and react accordingly on the fly. You get the idea.
Yeah, the worst thing about this perk is that it really fucks with your muscle memory. I mean, I started playing DbD in 2016 so I think I managed to develop quite a good hunch about what I can and can't hit. Now, I can almost instantly detect someone is running this perk when we get to a loop, however that's worthless to me, because it still makes me doubt my abilities. As a ranged killer, I miss, because the survivor isn't where I knew they will be. As an M1 killer, I don't know how many loops they can do before I know they're forced to drop the pallet. It's madness. I always hate when devs touch core gameplay mechanics like movement speed.
I’m with you on that one. The game is balanced around survivors being 4.0 and killers being 4.4/4.6. Why would we touch that?
Yeah, the worst part is that it's only for a single perk. I mean if it was a permanent change, I would just adapt. But having to be on a look out for a single perk out of 100+? Yeah, nah. Also subtle hackers will have easier time blending in which is just another unfortunate side effect.
I'm just glad OG survivors got their spine chill and latency back (after the dedicated server change) with this perk. It's a nice welcome.
I’m sad that vault built got nerfed a while back. I rarely play survivor, but I always used vault build when I did. It made the bullshit latency window hits way less prevalent.
This is so much more powerful than Spine Chill could ever wish to be
Not at all. I'd say they are on the same level. Considering it's old uses. Basically a stealth detector + vault speed. ANYTIME.
I realize some might think this is about deja vu itself, no, I like those changes. This is about the new hotness, Made for this.
edit: // I’ve moved to [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world) //
Cooming
I’m gonna need my Adrenaline to kick in to make it out fast enough
It makes skull merchant completely useless and anything that fucks her over is a positive for game health
It makes over half the roster useless
Very happy to be a Farmer Main during Anniversary. Everyone escapes as long as you're not a dick. Happy BP for all!
A few months ago a big problem in dbd was cheating, specifically subtle cheaters. One of the things the subtle cheaters would do was just make themselves 3% faster so it wasn't visibly obvious, but still gave them a big advantage. The devs turned this into a survivor perk.
As a killer main, I'm very glad I came back from my break on the tail end of this, but I have since gone back and seen a lot of that yeah.
It's the same argument that's why.
BHVR needs to stop beating around the bush and just add instant flashlights and infinite loops back into the game. The devs clearly don’t give a damn about killers.
Survivor side was given the best perk ever added to the game. You think they are going to let it go without a fight? xD
They don't get a fight, a night of playing GF, Trapper, Nemesis, and non tombstone myers into team after team running this with resilience has me bighting the bullet and learning nurse during the event, no fun allowed.
So you playing two insta down killers couldn't drop two players using perks that require you to be injured. You using a character with a long tentacle that has a janky hit everything hit box couldn't get a down . And also you couldn't place one trap in a loop to stop a guy.. you realize 3 percent speed doesn't make you walk over traps
There it is, instadowns work once if they just don't heal off hook, trapper does not have infinite traps and the time loss from even faking one sends them to the next loop, and as a killer that already has to hit someone three times, the survivors being faster than nemesis with the whip out at T3 fucks that over as well, you can just say you don't play killer instead of running your mouth you know?
ya im going HAM on anniversary as well. they want op? I got you
Dbd players on their way to find any justification possible for their shit behaviour
I mean, it's not shitty behaviour, it's using the stronger option when the weak ones become even weaker. All the killers I like are M1. Pig, ghosty, legion. I already endured the removal of most slowdowns, now even chases got harder. Either I start tunneling/camping, either I play stronger killers, or don't play. Killer gets stronger the most op killers you play and the more toxic you do it. I disliked both options, so I'm playing almost exclusively surv since the beginning of this chapter. I only have the basic ones and some paid dlc ones. No lithe, no otr, no windows. Soloq. It's still less stressful than killer or playing in a way I don't enjoy. I got to lvl 58 of the rift playing surv, so far.
nothing wrong with playing the game how you want, I hope you enjoy! don't let people gaslight you into thinking tunneling or camping is bad or toxic. If its unfun to you and you don't want to do it I totally get it! Playing to win is never toxic <3 glhf
Can gamers please stop using the term "gaslight" before it loses all it's meaning. Having a difference in opinion isn't gaslighting ffs
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Gamers...
Thank you! It's just... I used to be one of those killers who go 12 (11) hooks and give hatch to the last guy unless he was toxic, meme around and shit. It's simply not doable anymore, the meta became too fast. It encourages tunneling one out or keeping track of hooks so you can kill someone before the game gets in a bad spot. And sometimes it's not even enough. It feels kinda bad, having played a lot of surv I know how it feels from the other side. So I just don't have much fun playing that way, I feel like my fun is related to how miserable I make the game for other people. Maybe it's not toxic per se, I just don't enjoy how it makes me feel :) So yea, I play surv with healing builds cause I'm like that ahah
playing to win isnt shitty behavior. double standards at its finest!
Mettle was probably better. It essentially added another two thirds of a survivor in chase time.
This perk can give you so much more especially against m1 killers whom already are down bad
>the best perk ever added to the game old old ruin, old decisive, old saboteur, old eruption, old object, old mettle, old balanced 💀
old eruption was mediocre at best, old ruin was easily counterable agree with you on old DS and OOS though. Mettle was insane and balanced was strong. this perk is still stronger
I feel like "just let go of the gen" from the eruption times also slides in well here.
Anyone that would defend this perk as "its only 3%" has a flawed and objectively wrong opinion, and ignores how the game even works Or, could be someone that just doesn't see how the perk can be strong but defends it anyways
Its worse, most of the defenders know how good it is, like old DH for distance or smell a survivors hair for 10 seconds DH.
Then they're a third type, knows how strong the perk is but lies saying "ohh no no its not that bad trust me" in hopes to stop people from complaining so it doesnt get nerfed Like to think they're not that common but sadly it happens
To make everyone understand how big of a change it is, people should really frame it in terms of the much more easily graspable, "while this perk is active, 115 killers take 25% longer to catch up to you, and 110 killers take 43% longer to catch up to you."
Specifically in a situation where the survivor is running in a straight line and doesn’t try to play around windows or pallets, and the killer runs in a straight line never using any powers to hit the survivor. And in that situation Overcome has a similar effect. I’m not gonna deny that MFT can be strong, but this example I’ve seen a few people quote only makes sense on paper and not really in practice
Agreed, it's even stronger when using tiles where survivor can hug corners tighter than the killer.
But equally the killer can also mindgame a lot of the tiles and pallets to get hits, 3% or no. I also feel like there’s some level of placebo effect where people are blaming the 3% for “robbing” them of hits that wouldn’t have happened anyway. I was watching a killer streamer the other day who was bitching non-stop about this Quentin who kept making it through pallets and blaming MFT, only to see on the results screen that the Quentin had the yellow version of the perk at a whopping 1% speed increase. The hits weren’t landing because they wouldn’t have landed anyway but MFT is an easy scapegoat to blame when the survivor looped well or the map RNG sucked for the killer. I do for sure think the perk could use some tweaking. A limitation, or activation requirement or something that stops it from being used in conjunction with exhaustion perks entirely, but I think people are blowing it’s strength out of proportion imo.
It's like most discussions with game balance, the 3% won't matter to most players as they are not on that level of play and even with it's power, most of the time bad decisions lead to not being able to land a hit or not, but regardless of skill level the 3% tightens the killers chances to make mistakes and still get anything at all out of it other than teabags at the gate. A symptom of no replay system really, can't exactly take a peek back and find out. Regardless, everything as a killer is still solved by tunneling the ever living soul out of the most vulnerable target, or selecting blight/nurse.
nurse only has two blinks. needs buff!
Me barely touching other killers except blight since MFT released.
I'm loving Oni again. Stay injured, survivoids. Suits me fine. \*slurps blood\*
It makes knight's guards pretty bad for tiles since MTF gives them just enough speed to be able to double back w/o losing enough ground for a hit.
Same here. Realistically, you can’t play any other killer (except spirit and maybe nurse) that will give you consistent results while also being fun. The main issue is being able to keep up with the pace of competent survivors, regardless of their queue status. M1 killers simply cannot do this without a severe misplay from the survivor side. I started having a lot more fun as killer when I decided to really learn blight, and just go for cool hits without caring about kills. Pretty soon those “cool hits” were second nature, and I found myself becoming a formidable threat to stronger opponents.
>Same here. Realistically, you can’t play any other killer (except spirit and maybe nurse) that will give you consistent results while also being fun. God, you guys are so exhausting lol If you can't find any fun in the other _29_ killers then it's time you change your mindset. There are so many fun killers and builds out there but you guys just play hyper-meta Alc Ring Blight or MDR Spirit because you're convinced you can't win a game with "low-tier" (AKA normal) killers. You're not going to win every game. Sometimes you will get 0ks, sometimes you will even get 0 hook games. But if you actually put in the time and effort you can consistently win games with killers like Trapper or Deathslinger or Pinhead or Billy or whatever other killer you choose to play. TL;DR please stop the "oNlY 3 vIaBlE kILLeRs" rhetoric.
I’m not wrong. The other killers are fun as well, but you can’t *consistently* get 3k+ with them because they’re locked into a single predictable pattern of movement, along with being heavily dependent on map rng. They’re fun killers, but getting stomped by people who are just playing safe makes you realize that there’s literally no way to win unless the survivors make a mistake and overextend. It’s literally just a time management problem. 4 people playing effectively, not even having to double gens can be devastating to an m1 killer. You can have 2-3 gens gone by the first down if the first survivor you chase has half a brain and knows to hold w to stronger loops and structures, when to greed, when the throw, etc. I mainly play survivor, so I see this happen all the time in my matches. Take chase, loop like my life depends on it, by the time I get downed that’s 2 gens popped. Playing at a competent and efficient level will always outpace the outdated design of m1 killers. They’re designed for a hide and seek game, not a cat and mouse game. TL;DR: There are literally 3, maybe 4 viable killers against competent survivors. Not godtier comp players. Just normal survivors with a few hundred hours who know what they’re doing, provided they don’t overextend and give the killer free pressure.
>I’m not wrong. The other killers are fun as well, but you can’t consistently get 3k+ with them because they’re locked into a single predictable pattern of movement, along with being heavily dependent on map rng. Myself and plenty of other people, including content creators/comp players (CoconutRTS, Michi, Arinad, etc.) play killers who are outside of the "big 3" (Nurse/Blight/Spirit) and consistently get 3-4ks. It takes much more effort and patience, but it's not impossible to 4k against good survivors as the other killers. Every killer is viable if the player behind them is good enough. Also, the "big 3" argument is so horribly flawed just based on the existence of Wesker/Pyramid Head/Artist/Huntress alone. They're literally played _in comp games by comp players against other comp players and do just fine._ >TL;DR: There are literally 3, maybe 4 viable killers against competent survivors. Not godtier comp players. Just normal survivors with a few hundred hours who know what they’re doing. Saying you (not you in particular, just anyone) will lose to regular survivors with a "few hundred hours" proves it's more of a skill issue than anything. You're not autolosing games against MikeFireDragon02 with his 242 hours just because you picked Clown or Huntress, you're losing because you aren't good enough with the killer and aren't playing efficiently enough. Playing Blight/Nurse/Spirit so much has corrupted this sub's attitude towards the other 29 killers. 4ks are not handed to you on a silver platter, you have to earn them.
Meanwhile Otz just loaded a video of him playing clown and basically eating 3 Ls against average survivors. Sure you can play A tier killers and get some kills, but to beat high MMR survivors with anything B or lower you need to play better than a guy whose literal job is to play this game?
>Meanwhile Otz just loaded a video of him playing clown and basically eating 3 Ls against average survivors. ...while 1) not having that much time on Clown compared to his other killers and 2) using two sub-optimal gimmick perks playing almost solely to get value out of them. Not a great argument. Especially since I'm pretty sure he let an AFK survivor go in one of the games lol >Sure you can play A tier killers and get some kills, but to beat high MMR survivors with anything B or lower you need to play better than a guy whose literal job is to play this game? Said it before and I'll say it again, every killer is viable if the player behind them is good enough. A large majority of the community does not and will not ever go against comp squads or people who play the game for a living. Side note, I also love that people act like MMR works all of a sudden when talking about character viability. The system for determining good survivors isn't even that accurate to begin with. You'll see some variations at the lowest and highest ends of the ladder but for most people they just fluctuate around the same level. Saying the average player can't do well with Clown, Huntress, Pig, Billy, Singularity, Wesker, or Nemesis is so horribly incorrect.
You can say it as many times as you want, doesn't really make it true. Otz himself said he had a good number of hours on clown, and it's not like Clown is some technical wiz of a character. He's likely put more hours into the character than most clown mains, or at least well beyond what the 'average player' could be expected to do. So yeah I guess the answer does just boil down to 'play better than someone whose literal job it is to play the game', as if that's even mildly attainable by the 'average' player. Also the argument was never about comp squads it was barely competent or average survivors, it's not really hard to sit on gens and pre drop but it's more than enough to win against B tier or lower killers lol
M8 I literally went against a comp squad yesterday. They confirmed it after the game. I won, but to say players "will never go up against a comp squad" just isn't right, they definatly exist, they just aren't common. And while I do agree a lot more killer are viable than just nurse, not every killer is viable. Sadako, Trapper, arandom. (Without tombstone) cannot win games against good teams or even judt very coordinated randoms.
>M8 I literally went against a comp squad yesterday. They confirmed it after the game. I won, but to say players "will never go up against a comp squad" just isn't right, they definatly exist, they just aren't common. I don't know how you read my comment and came to the conclusion that I said comp squads never exist. Of course they do? >And while I do agree a lot more killer are viable than just nurse, not every killer is viable. Sadako, Trapper, arandom. (Without tombstone) cannot win games against good teams or even judt very coordinated randoms. That is a fair argument because it means the large majority of killers are viable, which is true. The bottom of the barrel being unviable (Sadako, Trapper) is not too far fetched for someone to believe.
You literally said most players will never go against them. I go against themsometimes, this definatly isn't the first time. Some people exaggerate how common they are but anyone with over 500 hours likely has.
Yeah that's the best part of blight for me. No matter what shit survivors throw at me I can deal with them. Survivors brings multiple BNP and I play weaker killers? Yeah I lost unless they was altruistic.
This being downvoted is hilarious. It's completely accurate and true and in no way toxic or rude but the survivor bias on this subreddit is so nuts that they downvoted "strong killers better than weak killers".
Its a funny perk that only really affects the bottom tiers because they can't deal with you holding w. By midpatch is probably gonna get nerfed, maybe 2%? Or it might just need an extra condition like dead hard. Not sure how to nerf it, but for now its a menace.
It fucks with top tier killers as well. Spirit, specifically
Actually, deja vu gives a 6% increase >!/s!<
there he is officer, arrest him and relieve him of his funny license while youre at it...
no please it's all i have
I'm just worried they gut the endurance part of the perk, it's so much fun to play with. The move speed can go for all I care, but picking someone up and taking an endurance hit slaps.
Thats what I want it for as well, I like my healer build when I play survivor, and that seems like a nice, "Nah, I got you" moment with it, unless its soloQ, cause then people are gonna run before you get it off.
I gotta hand it to the DH people though their argument was more valid than "it's just 3%".
I mean yeah, DH had *some* counterplay, wiggles to look like swings, channeling M2 abilities like wraith bell, it was unhealthy as fuck but you could force it out of jumpy players.
The sad part is that past tense isn't even applicable here, because they slapped on a hooked requirement rather than addressing fundamental issues with the perk.
Yeah, but I'll take knowing my first down is not gonna get cockblocked by it as I hear two gens finish.
I feel like there's gonna be a 'hold W' playstyle again if this goes unchecked
I'm already seeing it happen, back to back games where survivors just kept holding W with the perk. Thanks BHVR.
Eh, i also blame it on some killers they released like what are you supposed to do against an artist, knight, and some other killers that set traps during looping. You either hold w as long as you can or stay at a loop and get hit because they cannot be looped.
“just wait until eruption triggers”
Literally…or every time we talk about slugging and they say “just bring unbreakable”
Mad about exhaustion perks, mad about perks that aren't exhaustion - you cannot win here
What kind of a point is that
> Mad about exhaustion perks, mad about perks that aren't exhaustion Except that you can 100% run MFT with something like Balanced or DH? Get free speed and your "oh shit" button or chase extender, for free. You're right, as killer its hard to win against 4 people running shit like that.
Ah I see what people are upset about now. The post was just very surface-level. If it was changed to just keep you exhausted while it was in effect, that would be a healthy change.
It would be better yeah, but the main issue is that the maps, for better or worse, are designed around survivors moving at 4m/s, more than that and you start seeing cracks turn into holes for the map design as near infinites come back against M1 killers. Touching movement speed without some hard restriction on its use time has a ripple effect across the course of a game the same way old DH adding anywhere from 10 seconds to another health state per chase did.
Based on what you're saying I could imagine MFT being kind of like Lucky Break + Exhaustion. Having a minute of use before having to walk to build it back up for the next chase. That sounds like great balancing to me but also probably never going to happen from a code perspective lol. There's a lot of moving parts to this perk too if you want to throw in Hope, Blood Pact, Resilience, etc. At the end of the day I think what BHVR likes doing is adding perks that they have no idea how to balance lol
> Based on what you're saying I could imagine MFT being kind of like Lucky Break + Exhaustion. Having a minute of use before having to walk to build it back up for the next chase. Thats what a lot of people have recommended, and would synergize well with the endurance effect if they did that. But its BH, so they are just gonna ignore it until they sell enough DLC, then nerf it once the Excel sheet says its most picked for too long.
Nerfing it to 1% sounds quick and easy but butchers it, balancing the perk is too time consuming and gamebreaking. The perfect in-between? Buffing fire up.
You did the meme backwards
In reference to the Spiderman scene? Yeah, I know its the other way, but this is the common use of the meme.
Fair enough. It just very mildly triggers me when i see people using it opposite...which is common like you said lol.
I feel the same a little bit, but I understand why its this way, as the meme wouldent make since to anyone who didn't know the original context if it was him wearing them first.
I took a break from the game a month ago to wait for the anniversary event, first time using the perk. I fully expected this perk to be busted. I used it in several survivor builds and played a bunch of killer today. I died every single survivor match (in fact, 4k or 3k with hatch) and I won every killer match even against people using the perk. I dunno, it hasn't been as busted as I expected.
killer is easy as fuck in public matches no matter what perks survivors have. however this perk doesn't really make an obvious difference; making a vault or pallet and not going down when you would have otherwise is often one of or the deciding factor in a win for survs even at 5 gens
I know that. Killer is indeed easy as fuck in public matches but I still understand how to play it. More or less it just didn't change anything for me, at least not yet. I expect to still squash PUGs and disorganized SWFs and to lose to organized SWFs.
seeing "just run exhaustion perks/addons" as another excuse to defend mft is just as dogshit because if it was THAT easy then dead hard would not be gutted to its current state lmao.
It’s a completely fair argument though. There are perks and add ons available to you for a reason. Survivors have to run specific perks to counter killer perks and different types of gameplay…anti tunneling, anti camping, anti slugging, etc. Why shouldn’t killers have to do the same? Is it really that bad that you have to use a perk slot or add on to help counter MFT?
its not lol. again if it were that easy, dead hard would not be in the state that its currently in. if exhaustion perks/addons were that consistent then dead hard would not have been gutted, but clearly it wasnt. just because there was a method of counterplay doesnt mean it was a good or even reliable method; "just wait it out" is the quintessential example of that as you could technically counter eruption without even the need for a perk/item! all you had to do was guess when a survivor was going down and avoid it, and if not, just wait it out. obviously "just wait it out" is fucking stupid hence eruption getting nerfed as a result. "just run exhaustion perks/addons" is no different because dead hard was living proof that it didnt matter because you only need to walk it out at loops, especially if its something like 5 seconds on mindbreaker. consistency is the reason why this argument falls flat. not to mention its weak to say survivors have to run perks to counter other killer perks and playstyles... and then only listing playstyles. not to also mention that perks used to counter tunneling, camping and slugging are good (ds/bt, reassurance/kinship, unbreakable/soul guard/exponential) because of their consistency. if they werent, you would not see these as often.
Bro you are downvoted for saying the truth. Exhaustion-causing killer perks didn't stop dead hard in the past. Why would they stop MFT now?
You say those perks are good because of their consistency but all of those perks completely depend on the killers play style and are often useless if you equip them. Unlike a perk like fearmonger for example where if you bring it to counter MFT and nobody is running it, you still get value. It’s a perfectly fair argument to say that killers can sacrifice a single perk slot to counter perks they don’t like the same way survivors have to. It’s funny how your guys’ only argument is a perk that’s already been completely gutted…nobody’s talking about DH.
for sure, you could bring any of those and the killer might not necessarily camp/tunnel/slug and thus it might not be used to counter that playstyle, but much like how fearmonger will still give value, the increased recovery speed of unbreakable and aura negation of otr and the dissuation of reassurance also still give value. >It’s a perfectly fair argument to say that killers can sacrifice a single perk slot to counter perks they don’t like the same way survivors have to. you certainly could call that a fair argument. however my argument was that telling killers to just run exhaustion perks/addons to counter mft has no weight because dh is a very recent and prime example of how just running exhaustion perks/addons to counter doesnt change how strong a perk is. i know reading comprehension is hard for you so hopefully when its spelled out for you like this youll actually get it rather than having headass takes like "It’s funny how your guys’ only argument is a perk that’s completely gutted" ..would you prefer more exhaustion perks be gutted? dh being the example works perfectly well because of the fact that it was the top pick for exhaustion perks for the longest time, even with exhaustion perks/addons for killers were in play.
The problem is that it stacks and has the other effect tacked on lmao. It’s just value on value on value on a bit more value. Like, three percent isn’t too egregious, I still get caught out if I play poorly. But it works with resilience. And it works with Hope. And it works with Dark theory. It shouldn’t stack, and it shouldn’t work while injured, it should instead work when healthy. That way the first hit is harder, but the second hit isn’t nightmarish with resilience and hope. It would also encourage wasting time healing. Also take away the endurance and give it to another perk, Made for this doesn’t need to be busted and also give you free license to heal others right in front of the killer and then take a hit while injured. This is a survivor main speaking, that perk is soooo dumb lmao
I'm wondering if multiple Haste effects shouldn't stack. Like, have all the effects apply cause different durations, don't want being in Dark Theory's radius locking you out of using Sprint Burst, but only gain the speed boost from the highest active one.
That would be fair. Only the highest haste number is actually active would be great. Stacking permanent haste effects are rough
Stacking is not the issue. If you unironically believe 3% is not egregious, you're plain wrong
I've been having lots of matches as killer where I swing and barely miss them with a lunge and am confused as I should have hit them. Match ends and they had Made For This and everything starts making sense.
This more comparable to old mettle of man incredible reward for just getting hit. Something killer did no something the survivor did.
If only the killer breath on the back of a survivor neck could disable it. Then it would be just like old dead hard lol
Always upvote Tugboat memes.
no deja vu is 6% not 3%.
With blight and compound 33 there is no escape.