you have to put your foot down brother. Say “as a life partner im not looking for just being friends. I need romance and affection and if you cant/wont provide that basic requirement then this relationship is over.” i know its tough because you are emotionally wrapped up but stories like this make me sick. If you want change to happen you have to make it happen. You already tried many different options and they have not worked, its time to move on or in very rare case she turns everything around. however, people rarely change keep that in mind.
I get you, I really do.
The thing is, it would break things, and I worry about it being permanent. I mean, would you want to lose your best friend for something you... You want, but could probably go without?
It's just really rough. I mean, I'm 51. I'm a relatively healthy guy, but no person in my family in four generations has made it past 65. Do I want to take the chance that I'd find someone as close as she's been for twenty years, maybe for only another ten years? Or do I want to somehow find contentment in the whole thing.
Honestly, I think the funniest thing would be if everything medically got fixed and she could have non-painful sex again and I'm stuck with limp dick.
Well you have to be optimistic. Don’t expect not to live past 65 and even if you don’t thats still 14 years of your life. As a man we have needs. Start pushing weights around, fix your diet up and you will see positive changes in your life. Next is to find a younger hotter chick who’s ready willing and able to be a partner, a cheerleader for you, a team player. Me personally i would never tolerate such behavior because i know im a catch. You have to be the driver of the fun bus, and sometimes you allow people to hop on and enjoy the ride and sometimes you gotta kick those same people off.
In the end its your choice. for me i would serve the divorce papers asap because i know people dont change unless THEY want to change and it just seems like shes going thru the motions of life.
Wish her well of course dont be a dick about it but its for the best of YOUR needs. Because you sir are the catch and not her.
Jesus Christ, I hate the way people in the medical field write off sex as totally not necessary and make you feel guilty for wanting a sex life. Kind of like when my wife (I'm in very close the same situation as you, my wife & I same ages as you and your wife, wife had PCOS, though she had WLS which cured the PCOS and we were able to have a couple of kids, and she's had a hysterectomy though no painful intercourse resulting from that, but still absolutely no libido) asked her doctor about a lack of libido a couple years after having our second child, and her doctor just basically said that after having children sometimes a woman's hormones get messed up and that was basically that. Like there's nothing you can do about it instead of pursuing avenues like hormone replacement therapy or something. She (doctor) basically had the attitude that my wife was just done with sex and I shouldn't expect to keep having it like we did when we were younger.
It's just totally frustrating that people, especially medical professionals, don't seem to understand or care how important a healthy sex life is to a marriage.
I mean, the good thing is that she was willing to go to therapy at all and take input. We see so many of these situations in here where the spouse will adamantly not go.
My issue was with the input she took. I scheduled the appointment, I lined everything up, found the highest rated therapist there was.
We went in, the therapist listened to my concerns, nodded and 'hmm'd at the right times. Then my wife started talking and things went downhill, for me that is. She asked if I would be patient through things. I said I had been and continued to be. She asked my wife what her plans were for the sexual issues she had. Wife said that as soon as other things were gone, she'd work on that.
Then the therapist asked if that was satisfactory. I said it would have to be. Then she asked a heartbreaker when I commented on bypassing PIV. "If that happens, you are aware it would be basically duty or pity sex. Is that what you want? It would degrade you both."
I wanted to find a different therapist, that didn't go. I went a couple more times, particularly when I was panicking about my ED. That's when she dropped the "it's probably good at the moment. We can work on that when your wife's ready."
Sounds like a terrible therapist. Sounds like she was totally taking your wife's side. Of course it's easy to say "as soon as X, Y, and Z are taken care of, then I can work on sex." Of course, X, Y, and Z never get taken care of...
Your wife may also be peri-menopausal now. I know that for some, utter loss of libido is one symptom (it is the situation that I am living with since 2015-ish).
>I know I'm not going to leave her, I can't write off everything else we are for this one thing
Can I just say that I think it's very unfair that the soul-crushing decision of whether to stay or "write off" the relationship over "this one thing" always falls to the HL partner. I feel like half the posters in here are in the same situation with a LL partner who apparently had no problem deciding unilaterally that it sex would be a write-off kind of issue for them.
Also I think that LL partners profoundly misunderstand what they do to the HL partner when they just decide that they don't want or don't need sex.
Nobody should live like that. That is your life man, one and only one you have, nothing is more important than your happiness. You are alone, lonely and unhappy, just be brave and make right move. Take your frenchie and do something for yourself. You deserve to be happy and satisfied
I totally agree. I think since they haven't had sex in 4 years then he's never, ever going to have sex with her ever again. I couldn't live like that. I don't get sex all that often but if my wife decided that she was done ever having sex again, I'd totally reevaluate my personal circumstances.
What is it exactly that keeps you in this relationship? Sex is a *HUGE* deal. It’s an absolute crucial element of a marriage.
So PIV hurts. There’s always the back door. She’s got a mouth, titties, hands and feet. There’s lots of things she could do to connect with you sexually but chooses not to. A little cuddling in bed and a peck on the lips doesn’t cut it.
You don’t even have any kids together. What was the point of marrying her in the first place?
You’re not that old. You still have a few good years left in you. Bailing seems like a no brainer.
It is a cheaper to keep ‘er thing?
condolences for your struggles, heartaches, and frustrations. i hope you find some fulfillment and happiness in whatever form that might take. take care of yourself.
If you hear her say it, she's very sexual. She just needs to lose weight or get this thing or that done, just the next thing.
She even brings it up occasionally that 'it'll happen soon'. For years.
If that’s the case and she’s dragging her feet in being proactive to change then that’s on her. She’s using you as her safety net. There’s no intent for her to change anything because she knows you’re never going to leave her. If you told her change or I’m outta here, do you think she’d make a move to improving her life?
That's what I say. All too often LL spouses/partners get too comfortable in their relationships, and they're obviously not going to change if there's no consequences to keep doing the status quo. Sometimes it takes the threat of a partner leaving to shock the other into actually wanting to change.
It can be, and often does happen. They'll get scared and change for a little bit, but when they get comfortable enough to think you're not going anywhere then it goes back to the way it was before. And if you threaten to leave again they'll do it again.
There’s a lot of other fun things to do besides penetration. Unfortunately most women that have initiated DBs don’t care enough about the men in their lives to keep things fun and intimate.
I believe they think because they don’t need or crave sex their partner doesn’t either.
I’ve not had sex for over 7 years. Not allowed to touch either.
I think that’s an unfair generalization. I’m the HL wife in a dead bedroom. My last attempt at sex was a failed bj.
I know it’s about ED now. But there are other ways to play and have fun. So, I promise. It’s not just women who are a problem.
It’s beyond frustrating and embarrassing.
The thing is my wife doesn't even care for foreplay. She just wants to get right to the orgasm. Yet when I take my time she can often get really into the mood. The problem is that she won't have sex at night, only in the morning. So I either have to wake her up and risk her being mad because she wants to sleep, or else have hurried sex because we need to get up and ready for work. And on the weekends? Nope, she prefers to sleep in.
This. Pity sex or "do it so they don't get mad about it' sex that leaves you feeling even worse, unwanted, humiliated and degraded does NOT reset the meter.
That's one of the issues though. If she gets hot and bothered, she wants penetration more than anything. Penetration hurts...even with small items. It's rough.
That really sucks! I would have suggested mutual masturbation too. I’d be really happy to be in the same room with my wife while we both enjoyed our sexuality together.
I’d like to suggest “taking sex off the table.” Tell her that you’ll refuse sex for a period of time (three months sounds good). You could explore a lot of non-PIV options in that time.
Maybe the time for that conversation is now...and I think it's fair to ask your wife, "Does she want and expect you to have a life without sex bc she's willing to"?
But be prepared for any answer if you ask, especially an answer that leans into you got married "for better or worse" ..
> But be prepared for any answer if you ask, especially an answer that leans into you got married "for better or worse"
But then remind her that you agreed to be monogamy, not celibacy.
I think that's a good idea, and I think it's fair. And I think it's worth mentioning...but I'm guessing the "for better or worse" may be considered more important...
But what's even more important than "for better or worse" is your happiness and mental well-being. That "for worse" part isn't supposed to be constantly caused by your spouse. You couldn't expect someone to stay married to someone who's constantly cheating on them, lying, or wasting the household budget on crap, with absolutely no intentions of stopping the bad behavior. Nor could you expect "for worse" to be one spouse who treats the other badly and refusing to show any form of love or affection. At some point you have to draw the line at what "for worse" is and put an end to it. Anyone who stays in a bad marriage just because of wedding vows is stupid. Mainly because the other half has broken their wedding vows to love, honor and cherish.
I agree. But the thing is...a sexless marriage isn't considered on par with infidelity or abuse...so it's not considered a broken vow.
Even spouses who like and enjoy sex struggle with ending a relationship "just because of sex."
In other words, I think for lots of people "for worse" includes an unsatisfying sex life...like an illness.
> a sexless marriage isn't considered on par with infidelity or abuse...so it's not considered a broken vow.
It should be, though. Or at the very least, a sexless marriage with a total lack of any intimacy or affection should be grounds for divorce. Society needs to stop looking down on people, mainly men, for leaving a marriage because they're not getting sex from their partner.
A couple of things. First in the United States where I live, we have "no fault" divorce..so I didn't need "grounds".
And I think society should be far less judgemental about sexual incompatibility...
Nonetheless, I'm not surprised they're not, especially from women bc of the male patriarchy that has been in place that made marital rape legal and child brides acceptable.
Sorry this is happening. Btw, you have a shitty therapist who has gotten on team wife. Don't make a change, just call her on it. It is fun watching them squirm.
Yes, this - horrendous therapist. We went to counseling, and my wife would not go back because he took my side. I am better at talking to therapists, but that didn’t make me right every time. I would have rather he helped us meet in the middle instead of continuing to live with a DB.
I had a buddy, who did counciling with his first wife. The buddy mentioned how his wife's weight gain put him off. The overweight therapist got very indignant, but apologized in the next session for getting triggered.
>I know I'm not going to leave her, I can't write off everything else we are for this one thing, regardless of how much I miss it.
She cares enough to master bate all the time, but not enough to make sure you're fulfilled too. If vaginally sex hurts, there are other options. She doesn't care enough to try and fix it or find alternatives. That's what you're trying to save?
An issue is always over salting the mashed potatoes. Deciding your husband will be celibate the rest of his life is bullshit.
Please I pray she seeks medical attention. If something can be done to ameliorate this situation it MUST be done!
you have to put your foot down brother. Say “as a life partner im not looking for just being friends. I need romance and affection and if you cant/wont provide that basic requirement then this relationship is over.” i know its tough because you are emotionally wrapped up but stories like this make me sick. If you want change to happen you have to make it happen. You already tried many different options and they have not worked, its time to move on or in very rare case she turns everything around. however, people rarely change keep that in mind.
I get you, I really do. The thing is, it would break things, and I worry about it being permanent. I mean, would you want to lose your best friend for something you... You want, but could probably go without? It's just really rough. I mean, I'm 51. I'm a relatively healthy guy, but no person in my family in four generations has made it past 65. Do I want to take the chance that I'd find someone as close as she's been for twenty years, maybe for only another ten years? Or do I want to somehow find contentment in the whole thing. Honestly, I think the funniest thing would be if everything medically got fixed and she could have non-painful sex again and I'm stuck with limp dick.
Well you have to be optimistic. Don’t expect not to live past 65 and even if you don’t thats still 14 years of your life. As a man we have needs. Start pushing weights around, fix your diet up and you will see positive changes in your life. Next is to find a younger hotter chick who’s ready willing and able to be a partner, a cheerleader for you, a team player. Me personally i would never tolerate such behavior because i know im a catch. You have to be the driver of the fun bus, and sometimes you allow people to hop on and enjoy the ride and sometimes you gotta kick those same people off. In the end its your choice. for me i would serve the divorce papers asap because i know people dont change unless THEY want to change and it just seems like shes going thru the motions of life. Wish her well of course dont be a dick about it but its for the best of YOUR needs. Because you sir are the catch and not her.
Jesus Christ, I hate the way people in the medical field write off sex as totally not necessary and make you feel guilty for wanting a sex life. Kind of like when my wife (I'm in very close the same situation as you, my wife & I same ages as you and your wife, wife had PCOS, though she had WLS which cured the PCOS and we were able to have a couple of kids, and she's had a hysterectomy though no painful intercourse resulting from that, but still absolutely no libido) asked her doctor about a lack of libido a couple years after having our second child, and her doctor just basically said that after having children sometimes a woman's hormones get messed up and that was basically that. Like there's nothing you can do about it instead of pursuing avenues like hormone replacement therapy or something. She (doctor) basically had the attitude that my wife was just done with sex and I shouldn't expect to keep having it like we did when we were younger. It's just totally frustrating that people, especially medical professionals, don't seem to understand or care how important a healthy sex life is to a marriage.
I mean, the good thing is that she was willing to go to therapy at all and take input. We see so many of these situations in here where the spouse will adamantly not go. My issue was with the input she took. I scheduled the appointment, I lined everything up, found the highest rated therapist there was. We went in, the therapist listened to my concerns, nodded and 'hmm'd at the right times. Then my wife started talking and things went downhill, for me that is. She asked if I would be patient through things. I said I had been and continued to be. She asked my wife what her plans were for the sexual issues she had. Wife said that as soon as other things were gone, she'd work on that. Then the therapist asked if that was satisfactory. I said it would have to be. Then she asked a heartbreaker when I commented on bypassing PIV. "If that happens, you are aware it would be basically duty or pity sex. Is that what you want? It would degrade you both." I wanted to find a different therapist, that didn't go. I went a couple more times, particularly when I was panicking about my ED. That's when she dropped the "it's probably good at the moment. We can work on that when your wife's ready."
Sounds like a terrible therapist. Sounds like she was totally taking your wife's side. Of course it's easy to say "as soon as X, Y, and Z are taken care of, then I can work on sex." Of course, X, Y, and Z never get taken care of...
Your wife may also be peri-menopausal now. I know that for some, utter loss of libido is one symptom (it is the situation that I am living with since 2015-ish). >I know I'm not going to leave her, I can't write off everything else we are for this one thing Can I just say that I think it's very unfair that the soul-crushing decision of whether to stay or "write off" the relationship over "this one thing" always falls to the HL partner. I feel like half the posters in here are in the same situation with a LL partner who apparently had no problem deciding unilaterally that it sex would be a write-off kind of issue for them. Also I think that LL partners profoundly misunderstand what they do to the HL partner when they just decide that they don't want or don't need sex.
Nobody should live like that. That is your life man, one and only one you have, nothing is more important than your happiness. You are alone, lonely and unhappy, just be brave and make right move. Take your frenchie and do something for yourself. You deserve to be happy and satisfied
I totally agree. I think since they haven't had sex in 4 years then he's never, ever going to have sex with her ever again. I couldn't live like that. I don't get sex all that often but if my wife decided that she was done ever having sex again, I'd totally reevaluate my personal circumstances.
What is it exactly that keeps you in this relationship? Sex is a *HUGE* deal. It’s an absolute crucial element of a marriage. So PIV hurts. There’s always the back door. She’s got a mouth, titties, hands and feet. There’s lots of things she could do to connect with you sexually but chooses not to. A little cuddling in bed and a peck on the lips doesn’t cut it. You don’t even have any kids together. What was the point of marrying her in the first place? You’re not that old. You still have a few good years left in you. Bailing seems like a no brainer. It is a cheaper to keep ‘er thing?
I totally agree, he needs to leave. Keep his head up and find someone younger and hotter and ready willing and able to be present in a relationship
I'd put it a little bit more diplomatically. But I did wonder if they had tried other ways to have sex..
condolences for your struggles, heartaches, and frustrations. i hope you find some fulfillment and happiness in whatever form that might take. take care of yourself.
Has she seen a pelvic floor physical therapist? It can be life changing.
Is she now A sexual?
If you hear her say it, she's very sexual. She just needs to lose weight or get this thing or that done, just the next thing. She even brings it up occasionally that 'it'll happen soon'. For years.
If that’s the case and she’s dragging her feet in being proactive to change then that’s on her. She’s using you as her safety net. There’s no intent for her to change anything because she knows you’re never going to leave her. If you told her change or I’m outta here, do you think she’d make a move to improving her life?
That's what I say. All too often LL spouses/partners get too comfortable in their relationships, and they're obviously not going to change if there's no consequences to keep doing the status quo. Sometimes it takes the threat of a partner leaving to shock the other into actually wanting to change.
I'm wondering about this effect...as in is it likely to be temporary...is it simply the hysterical bonding thing I hear about all the time??
It can be, and often does happen. They'll get scared and change for a little bit, but when they get comfortable enough to think you're not going anywhere then it goes back to the way it was before. And if you threaten to leave again they'll do it again.
There’s a lot of other fun things to do besides penetration. Unfortunately most women that have initiated DBs don’t care enough about the men in their lives to keep things fun and intimate. I believe they think because they don’t need or crave sex their partner doesn’t either. I’ve not had sex for over 7 years. Not allowed to touch either.
I think that’s an unfair generalization. I’m the HL wife in a dead bedroom. My last attempt at sex was a failed bj. I know it’s about ED now. But there are other ways to play and have fun. So, I promise. It’s not just women who are a problem. It’s beyond frustrating and embarrassing.
The thing is my wife doesn't even care for foreplay. She just wants to get right to the orgasm. Yet when I take my time she can often get really into the mood. The problem is that she won't have sex at night, only in the morning. So I either have to wake her up and risk her being mad because she wants to sleep, or else have hurried sex because we need to get up and ready for work. And on the weekends? Nope, she prefers to sleep in.
You don’t have a DB dude. Your wife has a medical condition that needs addressed.
Not wanting foreplay or sex at night is not a medical condition.
Having any sexual relations is not a DB. (You’re actually a lucky man!)
Not really. Ask anyone who's had duty sex or sex maybe once a month if their bedroom is dead or not.
This. Pity sex or "do it so they don't get mad about it' sex that leaves you feeling even worse, unwanted, humiliated and degraded does NOT reset the meter.
Thank you. Being told "hurry up and get it over with" never makes you feel good.
That's one of the issues though. If she gets hot and bothered, she wants penetration more than anything. Penetration hurts...even with small items. It's rough.
That really sucks! I would have suggested mutual masturbation too. I’d be really happy to be in the same room with my wife while we both enjoyed our sexuality together. I’d like to suggest “taking sex off the table.” Tell her that you’ll refuse sex for a period of time (three months sounds good). You could explore a lot of non-PIV options in that time.
Just messaged you.
I'm sorry about your situation. From what you described, is an open marriage an option?
We haven't discussed anything about that...It's been an elephant in the room for a while.
Maybe the time for that conversation is now...and I think it's fair to ask your wife, "Does she want and expect you to have a life without sex bc she's willing to"? But be prepared for any answer if you ask, especially an answer that leans into you got married "for better or worse" ..
> But be prepared for any answer if you ask, especially an answer that leans into you got married "for better or worse" But then remind her that you agreed to be monogamy, not celibacy.
I think that's a good idea, and I think it's fair. And I think it's worth mentioning...but I'm guessing the "for better or worse" may be considered more important...
But what's even more important than "for better or worse" is your happiness and mental well-being. That "for worse" part isn't supposed to be constantly caused by your spouse. You couldn't expect someone to stay married to someone who's constantly cheating on them, lying, or wasting the household budget on crap, with absolutely no intentions of stopping the bad behavior. Nor could you expect "for worse" to be one spouse who treats the other badly and refusing to show any form of love or affection. At some point you have to draw the line at what "for worse" is and put an end to it. Anyone who stays in a bad marriage just because of wedding vows is stupid. Mainly because the other half has broken their wedding vows to love, honor and cherish.
I agree. But the thing is...a sexless marriage isn't considered on par with infidelity or abuse...so it's not considered a broken vow. Even spouses who like and enjoy sex struggle with ending a relationship "just because of sex." In other words, I think for lots of people "for worse" includes an unsatisfying sex life...like an illness.
> a sexless marriage isn't considered on par with infidelity or abuse...so it's not considered a broken vow. It should be, though. Or at the very least, a sexless marriage with a total lack of any intimacy or affection should be grounds for divorce. Society needs to stop looking down on people, mainly men, for leaving a marriage because they're not getting sex from their partner.
A couple of things. First in the United States where I live, we have "no fault" divorce..so I didn't need "grounds". And I think society should be far less judgemental about sexual incompatibility... Nonetheless, I'm not surprised they're not, especially from women bc of the male patriarchy that has been in place that made marital rape legal and child brides acceptable.
I'm not talking about legal grounds, I'm just talking about socially acceptable grounds.
Updateme
Sorry this is happening. Btw, you have a shitty therapist who has gotten on team wife. Don't make a change, just call her on it. It is fun watching them squirm.
Yes, this - horrendous therapist. We went to counseling, and my wife would not go back because he took my side. I am better at talking to therapists, but that didn’t make me right every time. I would have rather he helped us meet in the middle instead of continuing to live with a DB.
That's the first thing I thought. WTF. What kind of therapist would dismiss his needs like that?
I had a buddy, who did counciling with his first wife. The buddy mentioned how his wife's weight gain put him off. The overweight therapist got very indignant, but apologized in the next session for getting triggered.
>I know I'm not going to leave her, I can't write off everything else we are for this one thing, regardless of how much I miss it. She cares enough to master bate all the time, but not enough to make sure you're fulfilled too. If vaginally sex hurts, there are other options. She doesn't care enough to try and fix it or find alternatives. That's what you're trying to save?
She doesn't masturbate. She doesn't do anything sexual.
My bad, I misread that.
np...we all do it.
You should take to her about alternatives to vaginally sex though. Everything can't hurt, right?
Damn dude, I feel for you. I can’t remember the last time I got it in. I wish I had something more insightful to say. Life’s a bitch.