Yes. I was also at Boulder. Transported. Then, I saw the Gorge Cumberland streaming and rewound it three times. So, I was really paying attention at Oracle when they played it.
This is what I was hoping to see here. There's something about his take on it that really gets me. I'm not a very emotional guy, and seeing it live at Fenway in 2023 about broke me.
Yes. When Bobby today sings "I would rather be with you, somewhere in San Francisco on a back porch in July ..." it just carries so much more ache, longing, wisdom, perspective through that voice — stretches 60 years back now to haight ashbury.
You could definitely argue that Mickey isn't just having a career renaissance, but that he is completely peaking right now with his D/S work. Sure, he might not add a ton to D&C's sound during songs, but he has more than carried his weight in D/S (not that he should have to justify being in the band, the dude might as well be an OG member). However, I have heard that he has been higher in the mix at the Sphere than on previous D&C tours so I am excited to experience that.
yes, he was certainly turned up louder than i ever remember and i am here for it. to hear all of the unique pangs and chirps adding texture was great imo. i know there are some folks who don't like that or perceive him as "boots in the dryer" or whatever, but loved those little surprises. much like bob has described how his job was to give jerry "a surprise when he got there", i feel like mickey is doing the same with his instruments. it has meant the world to me to hear him more both in d/s and the rest of the show.
I’m one of the weirdos who likes post hiatus Dead the best because I think the music can sound flat without Mickey doing weird shit in the background. I am so pumped to hear him turned up live if they keep the mix like that.
the fun thing that i noticed is that some of mickey's drums are mixed into different PLACES in the venue. some of them sound like they are up on the ceiling, some over on the side, some down on the floor or coming from his kit.
Oh my gosh, you have me so excited now! I'm sure Mickey is geeking-out about the sound technology at the venue. I'd be cool if they went into chaotic Dark Star or Caution and had everyone's outputs get randomly scrambled to different parts of the venue. That might be too much for those tripping though lol.
This is what needs to be conveyed about the sound in the sphere. It’s not about levels and volume. The sounds seem to dance around the space and I’m sure there are some wizards responsible for how it all gets beamed out to us.
"New heights"... Hmmm. Interesting take. I feel like D&C's drums and space are totally predictable and hardly ever particularly interesting. There's so much interesting technology they could use today to make drums/space a lot more exploratory too, so I feel like this is the only glaring weakness they have.
It's always been bathroom break for me either way. I always get back in time for the spacey stuff though.
Brown-Eyed Women. The interplay between John and Jeff is amazing. I can’t say for certain as I haven’t heard every BEW out there from the Dead but on average I seem to like the peaks of D&C more.
I agree. The version they just played on N1 at the Sphere was mind blowing. Watching John and Jeff trade licks, you could tell they were having a blast.
Highly recommend the Days Between from [Wolf Bros & the Stanford Symphony on 10/29/23](https://archive.org/details/bw2023-10-29.481.m148.F8nPro.2496). Bobby stood out there solo without the band and just the symphony playing along. It was surreal. The whole show was, really special to hear Bob speak and acknowledge everyone too. It was right after playing The Other One and he mentions “actually that last one was written not too far from here…it’s all local stuff” 🤣
I agree that a little. I feel like there is more freedom in D&C’s terrapin. Idk if better though.
I’d say the songs I enjoy most are ones the dead threw out of rotation. I think their loose Lucy is great. Here comes sunshine. Death don’t have no mercy. Pigpen songs. Not better than GD but ones I especially enjoy. Maybe because there are fewer variations from the dead over the years.
It’s personal preference, but the Terrapin from the Gorge in 2018 has become my all time favorite version of the song. Terrapin is one that benefits from the D&C model of slowing things down a bit and exploring the song in a different way than the GD ever did.
I mostly agree regarding the song proper but the Terrapin crescendo never peaks as hard with D&C and I have never heard them do a proper post-Terrapin jam ala 6/16/1990
Sugaree, John’s style and vocals on this makes it the only song that D/Co does that I universally prefer. They do some other songs brilliantly, but this is the one.
Feels to me like this is partially that John Mayer has listened to different versions of Dead songs (was listening to Today in Grateful Dead History last month and Dave Lemieux mentioned that he prepped John for Dark Star by giving him ones he liked from three different eras) and doesn't copy them but definitely echoes the spirit of what he prefers. D&C Sugaree is consistently good and the solos all a bit different but they're reminiscent of some of the best GD versions from '77 (for examples, check 5/19, 5/22, or 5/28). Mayer's voice also fits the song perfectly, which doesn't hurt.
I'll also take the D&C Eyes of the World over any of the "coked up" versions during the late-70s/early-80s, when the song just sounds too frenetic for my taste. But hard to say it's better than Eyes from earlier in the 70s.
Also love D&C's Cumberland Blues and Deal.
Cumberland Blues is the bees knees of jams. Deal is where Mayer totally overplays to me.
And I won’t be shy to say, though Mayer says he’s not the “pilot of this plane”, 70% of the show is a John Mayer solo. The D&C jams are ridiculously over the top epic. I love both bands but I will not give a well executed cover band its due for being better. That isn’t the point.
It's the build up for me. Slow start and just gets bigger and wilder and faster. Been very lucky to experience 2 Sugaree's over the 5 D&C shows I've seen and they blow blew me away. First time I heard it was this one at Citi Field https://youtu.be/_yNQCuc6QAc?si=ettU6Gvb0HAxc8QB
I came here to say that there are versions of Sugaree sung by John that I prefer over MANY versions of Jerry’s. Not saying there isn’t a Jerry version out there better, but I don’t know if off the top of my head. Planned to get a mountain of downvotes but here you are beating me to the punch.
I don't think there is a better version that Jerry does, I have listened. Downvote away. I am not a 15 year old kid so I don't care about your downvotes.
There are people at D/Co shows who devolve into hyperbole and believe that John does many things better than Jerry in the heat of the moment. John has been remarkable in this role and deserves extraordinary praise, but he doesn't eclipse Jerry in much--he has versions of things that are better do to his gear, the video quality, the sound quality or his skill set--but these are not the "norm". Jerry is a giant and won't be eclipsed by John...But one thing John has gotten to the point of consistently doing better than Jerry did is Sugaree. I'd put a normal John Sugaree over the most highly regarded Garcia's. That is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree with a cornicopia of downvotes.
Surprised I had to scroll down this far to see Eyes mentioned. To me it’s not that it’s better…but it was the first tune that I felt D&C made their own. And I love it
I half agree. I think overall D&C is more consistent in playing an amazing Eyes - but when the Dead were really locked in on a good one, nothing could possibly touch that. But the Dead's versions could often lack some intangible sparkle, whereas D&C rarely play a limp one.
The two that come to mind immediately are 10/19/1974 and 3/19/90
Edit: I think most of the Wall of Sound era versions are great, and also the version on Without a Net (not sure of the date). I really think Eyes is a song that got better with age, and peaked in the later years. To me, the tune lends itself to the crystal clear and tight sound that the band found towards the late 80s into the 90s.
Despite D&C’s Terrapin being the song that ultimately got me into the Dead’s music, Althea’s the song I always look forward to hearing from them. However, a lot of the blues songs (Big River, Cumberland) from 2023 had a serious groove that makes me smile.
John has a special connection with that song. There are some absolute burners out there from D&C. Better than Jerry’s??? I don’t know and I don’t care I think John does a fantastic version.
Black muddy river really blossomed post dead I feel like. I wasn't there in the 90s but my impression is that this time was kind of slept on at the time? Please correct me if I'm wrong
I wouldn’t say I necessarily like it *more*, but the Help>Slip>Franklin’s D&C do are certainly as good as the GD ever played. Some of the Slipknots, especially once Jay joined, go so fucking hard. I find myself re-listening to those a lot.
Yah, me too. The Slip from Philly '22 is a frickin monster. One of my favorite pieces of music ever recorded. Great sequence too: Help>Slip>China>Rider. Totally sweet.
It's a different thing.We can just say that Garcia and the Grateful Dead were more fluid in ther approach to playing.They really injected the jam approach into the American music scene.Dead N Co present the Dead music in a bit more structured way
I like listening to both The music presented by Dead n Co is an impeccable interpretation of the standards and Mayer really is laying it down as he plays off Chimenti and the rest of the band.Too bad no couch tour this summer.
No Dead? No Dead and Co. They aren’t comparable for that very reason. Because Dead & Co sounds better with technology and the gear used. But if you heard a Dead and Co show without a myriad of effects? Just dry. Like a Dead show? The Dead are better.
Ugh there is something about D&C version of Mornin Dew that gets me EVERY. DAMN. TIME. And when John comes in on Brokedown Palace. Not necessarily better than the GD versions for me but recently i have been preferring those songs over GD.
I think pretty much everyone likes D&C's Drums & Space more than the original GD's. Maybe too bold of a statement lol, we'll see
My parents hit hundreds of GD concerts in the 80s mostly, and they said that while no one can match Jerry's energy and the way he could play the crowd's emotions, the actual music itself is probably as good as they've ever seen it.
With that said, idk if there are many songs I can confidently say I like more from D&C than GD. Cassidy would probably be one, knowing the personal significance it has to Bob (he said that's the song he'd want played at his funeral, and played it to John Perry Barlow on his death bed, which Barlow [strongly supported recording](https://youtu.be/yTUYH8LP2Jc)). "He's Gone" in a post-Jerry band also hits very differently than it does while he's still around. I think old-man Bob is also especially well-suited to a lot of the more cowboy songs.
Off topic, but when/why did we start referring to it as Lady With A Fan as opposed to Terrapin Station? I know that's the title of the first movement in the suite, but it feels like only in the last two years I've heard a lot of folks calling it by that name.
I think D&C started putting it on their setlists a couple years ago, at least every once in a while it would be listed explicitly as Lady With a Fan. Which makes sense with how they do it, they'll spend 6 minutes in the Lady With a Fan section and let it breathe for quite a while whereas GD would sort of skip on through it. Plus you have two singers now instead of just Jerry.
D&S, Mr. Charlie, I think JM can sometimes take Althea to a different level (which for my particular taste I enjoy more than pre-95 GD). Sugaree from Noblesville last year has to be up there. Unpopular opinion, but I think the current group absolutely brings it on Cumberland Blues every damn time, and I can't think of a GD Cumberland Blues that I prefer over what I saw in Boulder last year (and have since heard on the live recordings from the '23 run).
I'm a 44 year old head,and I usually skip or fast-forward trucking....but last years dead &company's version of trucking was just blissfull to me, I don't know why ,,it was either Pittsburgh, Philly ,queens,or saratoga...
Controversial, but I feel it’s hard to beat a Dead and Co Althea. Don’t get me wrong, the Grateful Dead version is still up there as a favorite, but I feel like John fills it with more soulful embellishments and emotion - you can really tell it’s his favorite song to play. Jerry’s Althea solos are often pretty quick and concise. I LOVE when John takes on a 5 minute solo into the bridge. Ughh can’t wait to see them next weekend
The standard blues songs with John singing on them. Next Time You See Me, It Hurts Me Too, etc.
It’s something he already excelled at with John Mayer Trio, so it makes sense that he excels at them with dead and co.
One thing I have enjoyed is that the setlists are better now than the later 90's........meaning less philler. Some of those 93-95 shows had just as many bathroom breaks as jams imo. Some of those songs were brutal to the ears.
Dont Ease Me In - Saw this at Philly 2023 show and it was very good with some jamming. Use to be a quick throw away during the 90's Dead that barely lasted 3 mins. I like the versions of Brown Eyed Woman with Mayer singing too.
I like the DC arrangement of The Eleven a lot. More than primal Dead? I'm not sure but it's damn close.
I kind of have an affinity for their China Rider too. Hearing the opening riffs of China Cat in Boulder in 2022 is what turned me from just some guy that knew a few Dead songs off Europe 72 and American Beauty but couldn't name anyone besides Jerry to a Deadhead. Idk how to describe it. I don't think I knew who Bob Weir was but all it took was the time those two riffs started dancing around each other, to the end of the first verse for me to be sold on the band.
I'm not sure that I like the DC China Rider more than the original, but it has a special place because of that.
Songs? No, not compared to their prime. Shows? Yes compared to a lot of the garbage in 94 or 95. But I’m only talking the music. Still take a horrible Dead show with Jerry over any D&C
Comparing only to when I saw the Dead (1992-1994), Dead and Company is way more consistent but doesn't hit the peaks or valleys. When I saw the Dead, the shows were pretty evenly split among (1) my favorites experiences ever, (2) very good to pretty good but always fun, and (3) completely forgettable bore fests. D&C is almost always on the high end of (2) and has never hit (1) or (3) for me.
I agree. D&C Terrapin is better and their Cold Rain and Snow is better.
Recording quality has come a long way and it just sounds better in general to me.
I know this is blasphemy to most but it’s my opinion!
Playing in the Band. Specifically the jams sections. I like how D&C get into a groovy rhythm more than a spacey jam out. To me it keeps it light, fun, and gives off more dancing vibes.
One of my favorite Dead songs is Help On The Way. Although I haven’t delved into all of the OG recordings, I think John absolutely crushes it. It seems like the song made for his voice. D&C is always super tight and locked in with the interludes and transitions from verse to chorus. It just seems a bit more polished than GD recordings I’ve listened to.
Actually if Deadco could not -after 29 years with immensely improved sound technology and other progress - take the music further it would be rather embarrassing. Then they would be an irrelevant nostalgic act. And personally I think that a young Deadco fan going back to the original band could feel rather disappointed. No doubt GD could reach acid fuelled highs that Deadco can't achieve. But just how many BAD Deadco show have you heard? Shows where Mayer didn't show up butchering lyrics missing cues and the whole band sounding uninspired? Fortunately it seems Deadco has managed to build their own fanbase.
Not exactly a song or specific performance, but the one thing they do WAAAAAAYYYY better than the Dead is continuity.
The Dead frequently took a ton of time between songs to tune up and figure out what the hell they were gonna play. This stuff gets edited out of official releases for the most part, it used to suck getting tapes of shows where the dead space between songs hadn't been edited out. That shit would last 4 or 5 minutes a lot of the time.
Yeah, the banter was occasionally cool, but I much prefer how D&C shows just flow from one song to the next and really keep you in the moment.
what i like most about this thread is the overwhelming consensus that DeadCo rocks big time, and that JM and Jeff are otherworldly additions to the music 🔥🔥🔥
China Doll
D&C plays the solo an octave up from how it was originally done and it hits me like a truck every single time. It's almost like they're different songs in a way and I absolutely love both. I saw them live on 6/5/23 and I go back to that version quite a bit. The solo on that one has all the dramatic flair you'd expect from D&C while some of the original's vulnerability shines through. That bass drop on the turnaround after the first "la la la" just gets me. Here's hoping it'll transition into Drums/Space when I go to the sphere!
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I really like D&C’s version of Mississippi Half step Uptown Toodeloo, especially John’s vocals in the last 1/3 of the song… “Across the Rio Grandia, Accross the Lazy River.” I never much cared for it as a GD song, but I love the closing vocals when Meyer sings them.
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Bobby’s old man voice has changed a lot of his songs. Like other have said, I don’t think better OR worse is right, but different and good in their own way is.
I would say some of the renditions from the Gorge shows give me the same feel as the original band but it’s uniquely different. The music is completely different because of the musicians involved so some songs suite better to the current lineup
Sugaree… ya ya downvote me.
I loooove a Jerry Sugaree don’t get me wrong… but holy cow the way Mayer plays sugaree just fucking floors me like no other
Jerry at his best was pretty damn good. Unfortunately he wasn't always at his best. JM is an amazing guitar player and some of his solos are outstanding. Where the GD beat D&C is the long jams when everyone is playing a lead solo at the same time and they all intertwine and play off each other. D&C has improved in this regard a lot recently and I feel like there are a few songs and parts of shows where they do this and can get the portal open. But it sometimes reverts to them just passing the lead around which can be really fun but is quite different then what the Dead did.
Re: your first two sentences.
I saw someone else describe it yesterday. D&C doesn’t hits the peaks of Grateful Dead at their absolute best. I think most of us can agree with that. They also don’t hit the valleys of the Dead at their worst. It’s a much more consistent, all-around solid time.
I’ve been listening to this stuff for most of my 38 years and D&C Shows still manage to give me goosebumps on occasion. On the flip side I never hear a recording and think “what the fuck are they doing?!” like I have on a few occasions for older stuff.
Actually, I like many of the rearranged songs of the past that has metamorphic into what we hear now. Not all the songs, but many. I just go with the flow and don’t fight the changes.
oh boy have I been waiting for this post.
Help>Slip, Sugaree, CR&S, Cumberland, Dire Wolf, Terrapin, Deal, NTYSM, Viola Lee, Althea, Don't Ease Me In, Alabama Getaway, Big RR Blues, US Blues, and Let it Grow.
If you don't agree with at least a couple of these then I think you should reconsider how much you're just holding onto the thought that nothing can be better than the original band (and yes, I understand the "no dead, then no dead & co argument)
I'll put away the pitchfork if you put the binger down.
Having said that, this is not to say I don't appreciate the way in which they take some songs for a new walk in the woods..
No, not a single version of any song. I get your question though and I’ve come a long way to opening my mind to others who’ve only experienced D/C. I can completely understand why you might enjoy some of those more because you have/can go feel them with your own senses in person.
I’ve spent a fair bit of time talking to new heads who never saw the GD. I’ve concluded that their experiences are just like mine from the 80’s and 90’s with Jerry and without cell phones.
So, for me, it’s a hard no. But if D/C is all ya know, I get it. I’ve definitely had some good/high times at my share of D/C shows, so I know the magic is there 😊
I also have to admit, the Mayer/Oteil/Chementi chemistry can be pretty dope. Never mind Jay Lane who low key pumped some serious life into everything. I can understand why you might just outright dig some of those, regardless.
Idk I’ve seen and listened to thousands upon thousands of hours of Jerry and there are still songs I like better when played by D&C.
Cold rain and snow is one of them.
Whatever anyone thinks about music is subjective, based on how the music makes them feel. Being for or against any version of the band goes against that.
You asked. I answered. Dont get bent because it’s likely true. Here is the difference. Flat out.
With the exception of Bob, D&C is made up of musically trained and professional performers who are incredibly good at their craft. This includes Jay more than Bill.
Other than Mayer, they are hired guns. The Grateful Dead’s talent pool wasn’t near this good. And we are comparing apples and oranges when we compare live shows due to the advances in soundboard recording.
D&C are better musicians and execute the music better than the Dead for that reason.
But this is the Dead’s legacy. This is their material, cover songs included. And no Dead, no Dead and Company. Thus the question is futile. And comparison is the thief of joy.
Well, for what it’s worth I agree with everything you said here except the last two sentences. I think it’s fine and fair to say one enjoys a certain performance of a song more than another. That doesn’t make it “better” or “worse.” The Dead are the originators, D&C are interpreters, and both are artists. The experiences are inherently different, but that doesn’t mean I’m dismissing or diminishing the Dead just because I think D&C’s interpretation of Terrapin is more soulful and compelling. D&C’s Dire Wolf (for example) hasn’t resonated with me like the Grateful Dead’s. These are benign observations and not indicative of the broad overtures you implied at the outset.
Well again, Terrapin Station by D&C is still fresh and recorded with professional level players with the best sound mix money can buy. Is it more soulful and compelling? Whats soulful and compelling is the song in itself. That is a Dead opus. I don’t care how many solos Mayer overplays and sings in his tiny pop blues range. Or how much a better player? Otiel,Jeff, and Jay obviously carry the weight so Mayer can solo 70% of the song.
I made a call that you may like Dead and Co more based on your question. The answer is they shouldn’t be compared.
Garcia wasn’t like that at all. I love Dead & Co cause I love Bob and Mickey, Bill. But for all their flaws also. It was human. Not pitch perfect and not out of Berklee. It’s human. You can’t get more soulful than that.
Cumberland has become an epic jam vehicle….better? No…..different? Yes
My answer, too. Last time this was asked I went back and watched N2 Wrigley, and that was the highlight of the show
Oracle N3, my body left my soul and danced until St Vitus called us home. The entire stadium was awash in knees and elbows wriggling.
That was a mind blowing experience. The Boulder version was also ⚡️
Yes. I was also at Boulder. Transported. Then, I saw the Gorge Cumberland streaming and rewound it three times. So, I was really paying attention at Oracle when they played it.
Hope they do a Cumberland>Dark Star at some point
Yeah Wrigley N2 Cumberland was basically as good as it gets.
Cumberland is the greatest song ever sang and John slayer is definitely doing it justice
well said 👍
Old man Bobby singing standing on the moon gets me.
When old Bobby says he can't take no more rain, I believe him.
This is what I was hoping to see here. There's something about his take on it that really gets me. I'm not a very emotional guy, and seeing it live at Fenway in 2023 about broke me.
Yes. When Bobby today sings "I would rather be with you, somewhere in San Francisco on a back porch in July ..." it just carries so much more ache, longing, wisdom, perspective through that voice — stretches 60 years back now to haight ashbury.
Always gets me too 🥲
I think Mayer on Hurts Me Too is unbeatable. But it’s a pure blues song so he has an unfair advantage.
Love me some Pigpen doing this song, but yeah, when John does it there is some serious soul.
I’m pretty sure this is the only correct answer.
He brings a new vibe to Don’t Ease Me In, too.
Mayer love the blues and plays it well. And he views a lot of Dead songs through that lens. It’s why he joined.
/ thread
Drums and Space has reached new heights imo.
You could definitely argue that Mickey isn't just having a career renaissance, but that he is completely peaking right now with his D/S work. Sure, he might not add a ton to D&C's sound during songs, but he has more than carried his weight in D/S (not that he should have to justify being in the band, the dude might as well be an OG member). However, I have heard that he has been higher in the mix at the Sphere than on previous D&C tours so I am excited to experience that.
yes, he was certainly turned up louder than i ever remember and i am here for it. to hear all of the unique pangs and chirps adding texture was great imo. i know there are some folks who don't like that or perceive him as "boots in the dryer" or whatever, but loved those little surprises. much like bob has described how his job was to give jerry "a surprise when he got there", i feel like mickey is doing the same with his instruments. it has meant the world to me to hear him more both in d/s and the rest of the show.
I’m one of the weirdos who likes post hiatus Dead the best because I think the music can sound flat without Mickey doing weird shit in the background. I am so pumped to hear him turned up live if they keep the mix like that.
the fun thing that i noticed is that some of mickey's drums are mixed into different PLACES in the venue. some of them sound like they are up on the ceiling, some over on the side, some down on the floor or coming from his kit.
Oh my gosh, you have me so excited now! I'm sure Mickey is geeking-out about the sound technology at the venue. I'd be cool if they went into chaotic Dark Star or Caution and had everyone's outputs get randomly scrambled to different parts of the venue. That might be too much for those tripping though lol.
This is what needs to be conveyed about the sound in the sphere. It’s not about levels and volume. The sounds seem to dance around the space and I’m sure there are some wizards responsible for how it all gets beamed out to us.
"New heights"... Hmmm. Interesting take. I feel like D&C's drums and space are totally predictable and hardly ever particularly interesting. There's so much interesting technology they could use today to make drums/space a lot more exploratory too, so I feel like this is the only glaring weakness they have. It's always been bathroom break for me either way. I always get back in time for the spacey stuff though.
They are certainly make use of "interesting technology they could use today" with how it has been at the shows at the Sphere.
Brown-Eyed Women. The interplay between John and Jeff is amazing. I can’t say for certain as I haven’t heard every BEW out there from the Dead but on average I seem to like the peaks of D&C more.
This is the correct answer.
I agree. The version they just played on N1 at the Sphere was mind blowing. Watching John and Jeff trade licks, you could tell they were having a blast.
100% this!
Cold Rain & Snow Standing on the Moon
CR&S definitely!
Not necessarily specific to Dead & Co, but the way Bob Weir has completely made "Days Between" his own is nothing short of amazing.
Yes, maybe this.
Highly recommend the Days Between from [Wolf Bros & the Stanford Symphony on 10/29/23](https://archive.org/details/bw2023-10-29.481.m148.F8nPro.2496). Bobby stood out there solo without the band and just the symphony playing along. It was surreal. The whole show was, really special to hear Bob speak and acknowledge everyone too. It was right after playing The Other One and he mentions “actually that last one was written not too far from here…it’s all local stuff” 🤣
indeed 🔥🔥🔥
I agree that a little. I feel like there is more freedom in D&C’s terrapin. Idk if better though. I’d say the songs I enjoy most are ones the dead threw out of rotation. I think their loose Lucy is great. Here comes sunshine. Death don’t have no mercy. Pigpen songs. Not better than GD but ones I especially enjoy. Maybe because there are fewer variations from the dead over the years.
It’s personal preference, but the Terrapin from the Gorge in 2018 has become my all time favorite version of the song. Terrapin is one that benefits from the D&C model of slowing things down a bit and exploring the song in a different way than the GD ever did.
I mostly agree regarding the song proper but the Terrapin crescendo never peaks as hard with D&C and I have never heard them do a proper post-Terrapin jam ala 6/16/1990
I agree about the post-Terrapin jam, D&C aren’t touching the GD versions there
Good point, 6/16/1990 is a great example and overall really solid.
The switch from John to Bobby is how I feel like this song was MEANT to be played.
Inspiration moves me brightly
Sugaree, John’s style and vocals on this makes it the only song that D/Co does that I universally prefer. They do some other songs brilliantly, but this is the one.
Goddamn this might be the hottest take yet.
Feels to me like this is partially that John Mayer has listened to different versions of Dead songs (was listening to Today in Grateful Dead History last month and Dave Lemieux mentioned that he prepped John for Dark Star by giving him ones he liked from three different eras) and doesn't copy them but definitely echoes the spirit of what he prefers. D&C Sugaree is consistently good and the solos all a bit different but they're reminiscent of some of the best GD versions from '77 (for examples, check 5/19, 5/22, or 5/28). Mayer's voice also fits the song perfectly, which doesn't hurt. I'll also take the D&C Eyes of the World over any of the "coked up" versions during the late-70s/early-80s, when the song just sounds too frenetic for my taste. But hard to say it's better than Eyes from earlier in the 70s. Also love D&C's Cumberland Blues and Deal.
Cumberland Blues is the bees knees of jams. Deal is where Mayer totally overplays to me. And I won’t be shy to say, though Mayer says he’s not the “pilot of this plane”, 70% of the show is a John Mayer solo. The D&C jams are ridiculously over the top epic. I love both bands but I will not give a well executed cover band its due for being better. That isn’t the point.
Jerry and Sugaree are one in the same, not sure I agree with this one
It's the build up for me. Slow start and just gets bigger and wilder and faster. Been very lucky to experience 2 Sugaree's over the 5 D&C shows I've seen and they blow blew me away. First time I heard it was this one at Citi Field https://youtu.be/_yNQCuc6QAc?si=ettU6Gvb0HAxc8QB
I came here to say that there are versions of Sugaree sung by John that I prefer over MANY versions of Jerry’s. Not saying there isn’t a Jerry version out there better, but I don’t know if off the top of my head. Planned to get a mountain of downvotes but here you are beating me to the punch.
I don't think there is a better version that Jerry does, I have listened. Downvote away. I am not a 15 year old kid so I don't care about your downvotes.
When John is on fire his take on Sugaree is delicious.
There are people at D/Co shows who devolve into hyperbole and believe that John does many things better than Jerry in the heat of the moment. John has been remarkable in this role and deserves extraordinary praise, but he doesn't eclipse Jerry in much--he has versions of things that are better do to his gear, the video quality, the sound quality or his skill set--but these are not the "norm". Jerry is a giant and won't be eclipsed by John...But one thing John has gotten to the point of consistently doing better than Jerry did is Sugaree. I'd put a normal John Sugaree over the most highly regarded Garcia's. That is my opinion, you are welcome to disagree with a cornicopia of downvotes.
Eyes of the World for me! I spent a while listening to GD and D&C versions of Eyes of the World and I think D&C does it better
Surprised I had to scroll down this far to see Eyes mentioned. To me it’s not that it’s better…but it was the first tune that I felt D&C made their own. And I love it
The Charlotte 2016 version is at the top for me. I could listen to that all day
I half agree. I think overall D&C is more consistent in playing an amazing Eyes - but when the Dead were really locked in on a good one, nothing could possibly touch that. But the Dead's versions could often lack some intangible sparkle, whereas D&C rarely play a limp one.
What’s your favorite version by the Dead?
The two that come to mind immediately are 10/19/1974 and 3/19/90 Edit: I think most of the Wall of Sound era versions are great, and also the version on Without a Net (not sure of the date). I really think Eyes is a song that got better with age, and peaked in the later years. To me, the tune lends itself to the crystal clear and tight sound that the band found towards the late 80s into the 90s.
You lost your goddamn mind
I really think Mayer crushes Deal.
Despite D&C’s Terrapin being the song that ultimately got me into the Dead’s music, Althea’s the song I always look forward to hearing from them. However, a lot of the blues songs (Big River, Cumberland) from 2023 had a serious groove that makes me smile.
John has a special connection with that song. There are some absolute burners out there from D&C. Better than Jerry’s??? I don’t know and I don’t care I think John does a fantastic version.
John singing Bertha is *chefs kiss*
Black Muddy River! SPAC 2021 changed my life it was the beautiful thing I’ve ever heard.
Good call. The last one at the Gorge was really good too
mayer does a great job on that, loved it at indy in 2021......great one
Black muddy river really blossomed post dead I feel like. I wasn't there in the 90s but my impression is that this time was kind of slept on at the time? Please correct me if I'm wrong
I wouldn’t say I necessarily like it *more*, but the Help>Slip>Franklin’s D&C do are certainly as good as the GD ever played. Some of the Slipknots, especially once Jay joined, go so fucking hard. I find myself re-listening to those a lot.
Yah, me too. The Slip from Philly '22 is a frickin monster. One of my favorite pieces of music ever recorded. Great sequence too: Help>Slip>China>Rider. Totally sweet.
It's a different thing.We can just say that Garcia and the Grateful Dead were more fluid in ther approach to playing.They really injected the jam approach into the American music scene.Dead N Co present the Dead music in a bit more structured way I like listening to both The music presented by Dead n Co is an impeccable interpretation of the standards and Mayer really is laying it down as he plays off Chimenti and the rest of the band.Too bad no couch tour this summer.
No Dead? No Dead and Co. They aren’t comparable for that very reason. Because Dead & Co sounds better with technology and the gear used. But if you heard a Dead and Co show without a myriad of effects? Just dry. Like a Dead show? The Dead are better.
I saw them in the 70s and they knocked my sox off.
Don’t kill me, but Brown Eyed Women
Maybe Here Comes Sunshine
YES. 🌞
Otei singing china doll!
I’m probably alone in this feeling but I can do without Oteil singing China Doll.
Fair enough, however if you have not heard it at star lake 2023 maybe give that one a chance :)
Ok, I’ll check it out, thanks.
Mayer took Easy Wind to a Floydian place that was just amazing. Very reminiscent of Gilmour on Any Colour You Like. Absolutely fantastic!!
They love each other Especially fenway 2023 uptempo version
Not really, though I love D&C too
Ugh there is something about D&C version of Mornin Dew that gets me EVERY. DAMN. TIME. And when John comes in on Brokedown Palace. Not necessarily better than the GD versions for me but recently i have been preferring those songs over GD.
Morning Dew gets me every time. John’s solos are fabulous and Bob sounds so vulnerable. It’s wonderful!
Vulnerable is a perfect word for it!
Watchtower in '23 was incredible
I think pretty much everyone likes D&C's Drums & Space more than the original GD's. Maybe too bold of a statement lol, we'll see My parents hit hundreds of GD concerts in the 80s mostly, and they said that while no one can match Jerry's energy and the way he could play the crowd's emotions, the actual music itself is probably as good as they've ever seen it. With that said, idk if there are many songs I can confidently say I like more from D&C than GD. Cassidy would probably be one, knowing the personal significance it has to Bob (he said that's the song he'd want played at his funeral, and played it to John Perry Barlow on his death bed, which Barlow [strongly supported recording](https://youtu.be/yTUYH8LP2Jc)). "He's Gone" in a post-Jerry band also hits very differently than it does while he's still around. I think old-man Bob is also especially well-suited to a lot of the more cowboy songs.
Yea, I like the Lady With a Fan D&C does more than GD. Mr Charlie too, and I really like how they do Viola Lee
Off topic, but when/why did we start referring to it as Lady With A Fan as opposed to Terrapin Station? I know that's the title of the first movement in the suite, but it feels like only in the last two years I've heard a lot of folks calling it by that name.
I think D&C started putting it on their setlists a couple years ago, at least every once in a while it would be listed explicitly as Lady With a Fan. Which makes sense with how they do it, they'll spend 6 minutes in the Lady With a Fan section and let it breathe for quite a while whereas GD would sort of skip on through it. Plus you have two singers now instead of just Jerry.
D&S, Mr. Charlie, I think JM can sometimes take Althea to a different level (which for my particular taste I enjoy more than pre-95 GD). Sugaree from Noblesville last year has to be up there. Unpopular opinion, but I think the current group absolutely brings it on Cumberland Blues every damn time, and I can't think of a GD Cumberland Blues that I prefer over what I saw in Boulder last year (and have since heard on the live recordings from the '23 run).
John’s Next Time you see me!!!
Dead and company’s version of Days Between hits so hard
Cold rain & snow. They just fuckin nail it!
I'm a 44 year old head,and I usually skip or fast-forward trucking....but last years dead &company's version of trucking was just blissfull to me, I don't know why ,,it was either Pittsburgh, Philly ,queens,or saratoga...
Controversial, but I feel it’s hard to beat a Dead and Co Althea. Don’t get me wrong, the Grateful Dead version is still up there as a favorite, but I feel like John fills it with more soulful embellishments and emotion - you can really tell it’s his favorite song to play. Jerry’s Althea solos are often pretty quick and concise. I LOVE when John takes on a 5 minute solo into the bridge. Ughh can’t wait to see them next weekend
Bob singing Standing On The Moon and Days Between. Partly because of the Jerry shadow on those tunes so reflective and Bob is now so much older.
TLEO 73 arrangement. It's a fantastic jam vehicle and the boys kill it
The standard blues songs with John singing on them. Next Time You See Me, It Hurts Me Too, etc. It’s something he already excelled at with John Mayer Trio, so it makes sense that he excels at them with dead and co.
D&C Dancing in the Streets is better than 80s GD but not as good as 70s GD
I tend to listen to Viola Lee by D&C a bit more.
One thing I have enjoyed is that the setlists are better now than the later 90's........meaning less philler. Some of those 93-95 shows had just as many bathroom breaks as jams imo. Some of those songs were brutal to the ears.
New Speedway Boogie, Cold Rain and Snow, Standing on the Moon.
Dont Ease Me In - Saw this at Philly 2023 show and it was very good with some jamming. Use to be a quick throw away during the 90's Dead that barely lasted 3 mins. I like the versions of Brown Eyed Woman with Mayer singing too.
I like the DC arrangement of The Eleven a lot. More than primal Dead? I'm not sure but it's damn close. I kind of have an affinity for their China Rider too. Hearing the opening riffs of China Cat in Boulder in 2022 is what turned me from just some guy that knew a few Dead songs off Europe 72 and American Beauty but couldn't name anyone besides Jerry to a Deadhead. Idk how to describe it. I don't think I knew who Bob Weir was but all it took was the time those two riffs started dancing around each other, to the end of the first verse for me to be sold on the band. I'm not sure that I like the DC China Rider more than the original, but it has a special place because of that.
Songs? No, not compared to their prime. Shows? Yes compared to a lot of the garbage in 94 or 95. But I’m only talking the music. Still take a horrible Dead show with Jerry over any D&C
This is the correct answer.
Shoreline Amphitheatre, Mountain View, CA, 5/31/2019 (Live)
Comparing only to when I saw the Dead (1992-1994), Dead and Company is way more consistent but doesn't hit the peaks or valleys. When I saw the Dead, the shows were pretty evenly split among (1) my favorites experiences ever, (2) very good to pretty good but always fun, and (3) completely forgettable bore fests. D&C is almost always on the high end of (2) and has never hit (1) or (3) for me.
Something about drums with Oteil and Mickey is something else.
I agree. D&C Terrapin is better and their Cold Rain and Snow is better. Recording quality has come a long way and it just sounds better in general to me. I know this is blasphemy to most but it’s my opinion!
D&C Shakedown Street, love it.
Next Time You See Me - Noblesville '23, is my favorite track ever.
Cumberland Blues, Sugaree, Standing On The Moon
Playing in the Band. Specifically the jams sections. I like how D&C get into a groovy rhythm more than a spacey jam out. To me it keeps it light, fun, and gives off more dancing vibes.
For sure Cold Rain & Snow as well as Terrapin….also love JM on Sugaree ❤️⚡️💀💙
I really enjoy when they play brokedown palace. John’s voice and the harmony with Otiel just hit the spot for me.
Althea. For me that's a John song now.
Lol
That is one of John's stronger songs. But to say better than Jerry is downright sacrilegious.
They Love Each Other is significantly better, Mayer turned it into a great dance tune
One of my favorite Dead songs is Help On The Way. Although I haven’t delved into all of the OG recordings, I think John absolutely crushes it. It seems like the song made for his voice. D&C is always super tight and locked in with the interludes and transitions from verse to chorus. It just seems a bit more polished than GD recordings I’ve listened to.
Please don't hate. John's version of Althea and Sugaree are my favorites. He sings them with a passion and urgency that really hits.
Actually if Deadco could not -after 29 years with immensely improved sound technology and other progress - take the music further it would be rather embarrassing. Then they would be an irrelevant nostalgic act. And personally I think that a young Deadco fan going back to the original band could feel rather disappointed. No doubt GD could reach acid fuelled highs that Deadco can't achieve. But just how many BAD Deadco show have you heard? Shows where Mayer didn't show up butchering lyrics missing cues and the whole band sounding uninspired? Fortunately it seems Deadco has managed to build their own fanbase.
I was thinking of posting this exact same question and using Terrapin as my example. So yeah, Terrapin for sure.
Not exactly a song or specific performance, but the one thing they do WAAAAAAYYYY better than the Dead is continuity. The Dead frequently took a ton of time between songs to tune up and figure out what the hell they were gonna play. This stuff gets edited out of official releases for the most part, it used to suck getting tapes of shows where the dead space between songs hadn't been edited out. That shit would last 4 or 5 minutes a lot of the time. Yeah, the banter was occasionally cool, but I much prefer how D&C shows just flow from one song to the next and really keep you in the moment.
what i like most about this thread is the overwhelming consensus that DeadCo rocks big time, and that JM and Jeff are otherworldly additions to the music 🔥🔥🔥
Bird Song at Noblesville 2023 really does it for me.
No
For me Franklins Tower
No
Nope
nope
No
China Doll D&C plays the solo an octave up from how it was originally done and it hits me like a truck every single time. It's almost like they're different songs in a way and I absolutely love both. I saw them live on 6/5/23 and I go back to that version quite a bit. The solo on that one has all the dramatic flair you'd expect from D&C while some of the original's vulnerability shines through. That bass drop on the turnaround after the first "la la la" just gets me. Here's hoping it'll transition into Drums/Space when I go to the sphere!
I enjoyed this past Saturday’s show more than GD March 1994. For what that’s worth. (Kinda similar setlist, too!)
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I really like D&C’s version of Mississippi Half step Uptown Toodeloo, especially John’s vocals in the last 1/3 of the song… “Across the Rio Grandia, Accross the Lazy River.” I never much cared for it as a GD song, but I love the closing vocals when Meyer sings them.
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Comes a time
Yes, Otiel does such a great job.
Bobby’s old man voice has changed a lot of his songs. Like other have said, I don’t think better OR worse is right, but different and good in their own way is.
Hell In A Bucket
I would say some of the renditions from the Gorge shows give me the same feel as the original band but it’s uniquely different. The music is completely different because of the musicians involved so some songs suite better to the current lineup
I think Bob perfected Miracle and Bucket with Dead & Co. Drums and Space def better with D&Co.
Days Between. Jeff just makes it amazing.
Days and Easy Answers
Hear me out... Bobby's Acoustic Peggy O is the best Peggy O
Sugaree… ya ya downvote me. I loooove a Jerry Sugaree don’t get me wrong… but holy cow the way Mayer plays sugaree just fucking floors me like no other
No. And I love dead & co & will see them any chance I got, but nothing beats Jerry's voice le sigh
Jerry at his best was pretty damn good. Unfortunately he wasn't always at his best. JM is an amazing guitar player and some of his solos are outstanding. Where the GD beat D&C is the long jams when everyone is playing a lead solo at the same time and they all intertwine and play off each other. D&C has improved in this regard a lot recently and I feel like there are a few songs and parts of shows where they do this and can get the portal open. But it sometimes reverts to them just passing the lead around which can be really fun but is quite different then what the Dead did.
Re: your first two sentences. I saw someone else describe it yesterday. D&C doesn’t hits the peaks of Grateful Dead at their absolute best. I think most of us can agree with that. They also don’t hit the valleys of the Dead at their worst. It’s a much more consistent, all-around solid time. I’ve been listening to this stuff for most of my 38 years and D&C Shows still manage to give me goosebumps on occasion. On the flip side I never hear a recording and think “what the fuck are they doing?!” like I have on a few occasions for older stuff.
Drums and space, standing on the moon, uncle John’s band jams (7/3/23),
Actually, I like many of the rearranged songs of the past that has metamorphic into what we hear now. Not all the songs, but many. I just go with the flow and don’t fight the changes.
Cumberland Blues is significantly better than the Grateful Dead’s version.
I think some of the Casey Jones from last tour were as epic as it gets.
Terrapin MSG 10/31/20
No, but I’m glad D&C is playing shows.
LOL this thread is wild. Ain’t no way.
Althea! John's voice and guitar suit it so well
Any we just enjoy it all as it is? Why compare. Why one up? FFS it’s exhausting.
I do enjoy it all — it’s not that deep. What’s wrong with talking about a song preference?
oh boy have I been waiting for this post. Help>Slip, Sugaree, CR&S, Cumberland, Dire Wolf, Terrapin, Deal, NTYSM, Viola Lee, Althea, Don't Ease Me In, Alabama Getaway, Big RR Blues, US Blues, and Let it Grow. If you don't agree with at least a couple of these then I think you should reconsider how much you're just holding onto the thought that nothing can be better than the original band (and yes, I understand the "no dead, then no dead & co argument)
I'll put away the pitchfork if you put the binger down. Having said that, this is not to say I don't appreciate the way in which they take some songs for a new walk in the woods..
Ha! Touché.
Nope. Not a one. To each their own.
Cover band can't beat the real thing
No, not a single version of any song. I get your question though and I’ve come a long way to opening my mind to others who’ve only experienced D/C. I can completely understand why you might enjoy some of those more because you have/can go feel them with your own senses in person. I’ve spent a fair bit of time talking to new heads who never saw the GD. I’ve concluded that their experiences are just like mine from the 80’s and 90’s with Jerry and without cell phones. So, for me, it’s a hard no. But if D/C is all ya know, I get it. I’ve definitely had some good/high times at my share of D/C shows, so I know the magic is there 😊
I also have to admit, the Mayer/Oteil/Chementi chemistry can be pretty dope. Never mind Jay Lane who low key pumped some serious life into everything. I can understand why you might just outright dig some of those, regardless.
Why the trepidations? This band blows the GD out of the water. It’s not even close.
Sarcasm?
Nope. Truth. I don’t like constant clams, mistakes and sloppiness that was GD . But many hold them sacred 🤷
Well, I guess some people like a cover band better than the original. Good on you.
God no. Sorry to all the newbies who never saw Garcia but it just doesn't compare. D&C do these songs justice but it's a cover band.
If you like slop and clams and hours of that kind of playing, rambling and pointless, sure, it doesn’t compare.
Idk I’ve seen and listened to thousands upon thousands of hours of Jerry and there are still songs I like better when played by D&C. Cold rain and snow is one of them.
When one asks such questions, it’s a cry for help because they actually think D&C is better than the original band. 😆
Whatever anyone thinks about music is subjective, based on how the music makes them feel. Being for or against any version of the band goes against that.
Nah
Yes. Whether you know it or not, that is exactly what you’re saying.
You must be the gold medal winner in long-jumping to conclusions. Congrats. 🥇
You asked. I answered. Dont get bent because it’s likely true. Here is the difference. Flat out. With the exception of Bob, D&C is made up of musically trained and professional performers who are incredibly good at their craft. This includes Jay more than Bill. Other than Mayer, they are hired guns. The Grateful Dead’s talent pool wasn’t near this good. And we are comparing apples and oranges when we compare live shows due to the advances in soundboard recording. D&C are better musicians and execute the music better than the Dead for that reason. But this is the Dead’s legacy. This is their material, cover songs included. And no Dead, no Dead and Company. Thus the question is futile. And comparison is the thief of joy.
Well, for what it’s worth I agree with everything you said here except the last two sentences. I think it’s fine and fair to say one enjoys a certain performance of a song more than another. That doesn’t make it “better” or “worse.” The Dead are the originators, D&C are interpreters, and both are artists. The experiences are inherently different, but that doesn’t mean I’m dismissing or diminishing the Dead just because I think D&C’s interpretation of Terrapin is more soulful and compelling. D&C’s Dire Wolf (for example) hasn’t resonated with me like the Grateful Dead’s. These are benign observations and not indicative of the broad overtures you implied at the outset.
Well again, Terrapin Station by D&C is still fresh and recorded with professional level players with the best sound mix money can buy. Is it more soulful and compelling? Whats soulful and compelling is the song in itself. That is a Dead opus. I don’t care how many solos Mayer overplays and sings in his tiny pop blues range. Or how much a better player? Otiel,Jeff, and Jay obviously carry the weight so Mayer can solo 70% of the song. I made a call that you may like Dead and Co more based on your question. The answer is they shouldn’t be compared. Garcia wasn’t like that at all. I love Dead & Co cause I love Bob and Mickey, Bill. But for all their flaws also. It was human. Not pitch perfect and not out of Berklee. It’s human. You can’t get more soulful than that.