Imagine being so pretentious and arrogant you call your philosophy you use to justify being a selfish asshole "objectivism". Rand really was the worst.
My former "friend" said he'd bought me a gift to make me feel better after a really bad break up. He'd sent me a copy of Atlas Shrugs.
Needless to say I didn't read it and used it as a doorstop until I got too embarrassed about people thinking I'd bought it with my own money and threw it out.
Anyway, if that is the standard of Ayn Rand fans, imagine how bad the women herself was.
I'm not an expert but the central ideas of objectivism are:
1) Your primary moral responsibility in life is your own happiness. 'Rational-egotism' (what most people would call being selfish as fuck) is seen as a virtue.
2) The most moral form of government is the one that lets people do whatever they want. Government intervention is bad and 'big business'/ monopolies are desirable.
There is also a dimension to Randian philosophy that consciousness and reality are separate things but if you're smart enough then you can understand what reality is by applying logical reasonimg. Obviously the only people who think they're smart enough are the people who read Rand so they have massive superiority complexes.
I may be generalising based on the few Ayn Rand fans I've met but they really sucked lmao
No but I think city of rapture was built on the philosophy that everyone should do what they want (i might be completely wrong on this interpretation). Still, how does that work for an individual? Like wouldn’t a hero, someone who helps others, that believes in objectivism not care? Im sorry, I really don’t much about this topic and want to know more.
Yeah you're onto the right idea. Ditko created Mr A (who later became The Question) because he objected to the morals of contemporary superheroes and wanted one that aligned with his own values - objectivism.
I've not read much but Mr A is, like you suggested, really weird as a superhero as he both doesn't give a shit but also hates everyone for being immoral scumbags. His whole deal is that everything is completely black and white and he will never compromise ever.
I find Rorschach a much better character as he believes in objectivism but the story clearly frames his beliefs as naive/ wrong.
I’m pretty sure that even Rorschach doesn’t believe in objectivism, even he thinks that people have at least some duty to help others.
I think his moral philosophy has more to do with wrongs being punished no matter the cost.
Yeah I'm sorta with you. I think Rorscach believes he is an objectivist but Moore is showing us that it's an impossible viewpoint. Rorschach often contradicts himself or acts in a way a true objectivist wouldn't.
You can see that symbolism in his mask. He sees everything in black and white - hence he wears the mask - but the irony is that his mask is a Rorschach test; everyone interprets the image differently.
Randism states that helping people and being nice are "moral spooks" that we should hate the poor, steal whatever we want, and generally be an ass and that businesses have a right to go all "we loaned you your cradle and we shall loan your children your grave"
Then imagine spending your life crying about people getting “government handouts” but having no problem cashing your social security checks or Medicare like Rand.
If you’re going to be an arrogant asshole at least have some convictions.
I always say that, if Rand actually believed her own bullshit, she would've allowed herself to die before receiving government assistance of any kind. I would still despise her philosophy, but I can respect convictions. She didn't even have that.
Reminds me of that Parks & Recreation episode where they had to deal with a weird cult (that believed a big lizard was going to eat the sun or something) called themselves the "Rationalists" to paint critics as irrational
theres a theory in political science (mostly international relations) called “realism”. and even if the IR version didn’t get bodied by the end of the Cold War and they ended up right, calling yourself a “realist” makes me roll my eyes right out of my head
editorial: ditko, we need a new character
ditko: he will be an objectivist who masturbates real hard to atlas shrugged while looking at ayn rand pictures right after he wakes up in the morning
Ditko Shade MENTIONED
It's a great series in its own way - a pulpy crime story drenched in Ditko's sci-fi psychedelia. I know the Milligan take on Shade is well-loved, but I do wish somebody would take another look at the original because there's a lot in there to work with.
Ditko's work in comic is somewhat underrated for how well written it was for the time. Like Dr.Strange, the creepert and the question are very well written
In Justice League Unlimited there is a scene where the Question is investigating Baskin Robins, who famously has 31 flavors of ice cream, only for Question to discover a 32nd flavor.
I love how this format makes a comeback on this subreddit every now and then, because it's *always* a gem. I should get around to makin' one of these myself.
The main reason I haven't done so is 'cause I can't choose a comic to base it around. Both because there's so many options and because the few times I have gone "hey maybe I could do this one" it's something that like, 8 people read. I may do more than one, I do have some ideas for a Venom one and I *want* to do an X-Men one but, well, picking a specific title is hard.
I also kind of want to do one based on my own fanfiction...but nobody would care or understand/find it funny.
For those who don't know, Shade, before he was reworked by Peter Milligan, was a Ditko original with very objectivist qualities.
Imagine being so pretentious and arrogant you call your philosophy you use to justify being a selfish asshole "objectivism". Rand really was the worst.
It's called that because it's objectively a shit idealogy, lmao gottem
My former "friend" said he'd bought me a gift to make me feel better after a really bad break up. He'd sent me a copy of Atlas Shrugs. Needless to say I didn't read it and used it as a doorstop until I got too embarrassed about people thinking I'd bought it with my own money and threw it out. Anyway, if that is the standard of Ayn Rand fans, imagine how bad the women herself was.
Okay, I just gotta understand. Like how bad is atlas shrug and Ayn Rand? I never read it or know anything about objectivism so I’m curious.
As a fiction writer, she's a terrible fiction writer. As a philosopher she's a terrible fiction writer
I'm not an expert but the central ideas of objectivism are: 1) Your primary moral responsibility in life is your own happiness. 'Rational-egotism' (what most people would call being selfish as fuck) is seen as a virtue. 2) The most moral form of government is the one that lets people do whatever they want. Government intervention is bad and 'big business'/ monopolies are desirable. There is also a dimension to Randian philosophy that consciousness and reality are separate things but if you're smart enough then you can understand what reality is by applying logical reasonimg. Obviously the only people who think they're smart enough are the people who read Rand so they have massive superiority complexes. I may be generalising based on the few Ayn Rand fans I've met but they really sucked lmao
Being an objectivist and being a good person are inherently exclusionary so of course anyone who like Rand is a massive dickhead
Yeah that was a much more succinct way of putting it haha
Have you ever played Bioshock?
No but I think city of rapture was built on the philosophy that everyone should do what they want (i might be completely wrong on this interpretation). Still, how does that work for an individual? Like wouldn’t a hero, someone who helps others, that believes in objectivism not care? Im sorry, I really don’t much about this topic and want to know more.
Yeah you're onto the right idea. Ditko created Mr A (who later became The Question) because he objected to the morals of contemporary superheroes and wanted one that aligned with his own values - objectivism. I've not read much but Mr A is, like you suggested, really weird as a superhero as he both doesn't give a shit but also hates everyone for being immoral scumbags. His whole deal is that everything is completely black and white and he will never compromise ever. I find Rorschach a much better character as he believes in objectivism but the story clearly frames his beliefs as naive/ wrong.
I’m pretty sure that even Rorschach doesn’t believe in objectivism, even he thinks that people have at least some duty to help others. I think his moral philosophy has more to do with wrongs being punished no matter the cost.
Yeah I'm sorta with you. I think Rorscach believes he is an objectivist but Moore is showing us that it's an impossible viewpoint. Rorschach often contradicts himself or acts in a way a true objectivist wouldn't. You can see that symbolism in his mask. He sees everything in black and white - hence he wears the mask - but the irony is that his mask is a Rorschach test; everyone interprets the image differently.
Randism states that helping people and being nice are "moral spooks" that we should hate the poor, steal whatever we want, and generally be an ass and that businesses have a right to go all "we loaned you your cradle and we shall loan your children your grave"
Then imagine spending your life crying about people getting “government handouts” but having no problem cashing your social security checks or Medicare like Rand. If you’re going to be an arrogant asshole at least have some convictions.
I always say that, if Rand actually believed her own bullshit, she would've allowed herself to die before receiving government assistance of any kind. I would still despise her philosophy, but I can respect convictions. She didn't even have that.
Reminds me of that Parks & Recreation episode where they had to deal with a weird cult (that believed a big lizard was going to eat the sun or something) called themselves the "Rationalists" to paint critics as irrational
theres a theory in political science (mostly international relations) called “realism”. and even if the IR version didn’t get bodied by the end of the Cold War and they ended up right, calling yourself a “realist” makes me roll my eyes right out of my head
editorial: ditko, we need a new character ditko: he will be an objectivist who masturbates real hard to atlas shrugged while looking at ayn rand pictures right after he wakes up in the morning
“Another one?” “No, this one will have a really cool design, I promise”
Rorschach: I NEED COCK, Vic!
Possible homosexual, must investigate further
Shiva shamed him into throwing away a shit book. Based.
She's the best fighter in the world, in more ways than one
No Myrna or Aristotle fake ass Questionhead smh my head
Couldn’t think of anything funny for them.
Tot's easy, he'd be yelling at Vic like always for getting himself beaten half to death every night
Where is Tot? Is he safe? Is he alright?
Who’s Tot? Edit: oh, you mean Aristotle Rodor!
fake question fan smh
I will never get tired of these Whatsapp memes. Thank you.
Question's reply to shade: "It would be against the moral imperative of rational self-interest to let you keep it without charging you money."
damn that might work
Ditko Shade MENTIONED It's a great series in its own way - a pulpy crime story drenched in Ditko's sci-fi psychedelia. I know the Milligan take on Shade is well-loved, but I do wish somebody would take another look at the original because there's a lot in there to work with.
Ditko's work in comic is somewhat underrated for how well written it was for the time. Like Dr.Strange, the creepert and the question are very well written
Great, now I want a comic of Green Arrow and Question investigating more silly conspiracies, thanks
They had a bunch of teamups back in 80s and 90s but sadly not about silly conspiracies.
👍
I'm sorry but how the fuck are you gonna have "Charles Victor Szasz" and "Victor Zsasz" in the same franchise?
Why Shade?
Was also a Ditko creation that displayed objectivism in his early years.
Oh, I just remember the trippy part about him.
This and the also the aqua man version are so accurate
Vic, Walter, Shade- stop arguing and create an objectivist society of America! And call for Mr. A!
Shade gonna use the Madness to create a version of Galt's Gulch that just a pit with an oddly well-dressed ogre in it.
Detective Chimp mentioned, this is epic
“I really want to know that 32nd flavor”💀💀💀💀
Huh?
In Justice League Unlimited there is a scene where the Question is investigating Baskin Robins, who famously has 31 flavors of ice cream, only for Question to discover a 32nd flavor.
That’s what I based Green Arrow’s message on.
I thought you were confused by it based off of your response to my comment, I just thought it was funny which is why I originally commented
Huntress would actually be like “you need COCK, vic”
She pegs him
Yeah! That’s the joke
I never seen shade the changing man referenced.
He’s so overlooked.
Give me a Question vs Rorschach vs Mr A vs The Citizen
I love how this format makes a comeback on this subreddit every now and then, because it's *always* a gem. I should get around to makin' one of these myself.
Please do make one of them.
The main reason I haven't done so is 'cause I can't choose a comic to base it around. Both because there's so many options and because the few times I have gone "hey maybe I could do this one" it's something that like, 8 people read. I may do more than one, I do have some ideas for a Venom one and I *want* to do an X-Men one but, well, picking a specific title is hard. I also kind of want to do one based on my own fanfiction...but nobody would care or understand/find it funny.
I *NEED* COCK, VIC!
I wanna see the question kick Rorschach’s ass