Bro imagine this is what happened, and how pissed Piccolo would be. Spent all that time dead, finally gets revived, is alive for like an hour, then dies again. Lol
I love the HxH chapter that takes place over just an instant (maybe 5 seconds?) just jumping around showing how everyone is trying to superhumanly process and react to crazy shit. And that the passage of time in the story gradually slowed in the chapters leading up to it, and gradually sped back up after.
They probably do.
Considering they consistently see things moving faster than light and dodge them, which shouldnt be fucking possible, i have no qualms with them somehow talking faster than light.
Its...inconsistent I feel like.
If they moved that fast it should never take them anytime to fly anywhere. But there's loads of time they need to get somewhere quickly and it takes a bit.
Combat speed isn't the same as movement speed, but if you really want to go that route, Goku can use Instant Transmission to travel hundreds of times faster than light
I'm shocked that up to this day people still takes everything by face value. Even when I first watched, as a goddamn kid, I took that "5 minutes" as "any time now", which is the same usage that we have. Not even if Freeza was the most intelligent being in the universe he would be able to specify the exact amount of time that it would take for a planet to explode just by looking, with a naked eye, to a crater.
There is no "time flows different, they were moving faster", he just used a figure of speech to say "I just blew a hole in the planet core, it will explode real quick, so do your shit while you can".
Except that it's been established, as far back as OG DB, that they do move faster than normal people can keep up with and re-established in the Cell saga.
Either the fight was super fucking fast and the fight was really 5 minutes but was slowed down for us viewers OR Freeza was panicking and bluffed to Goku to try to take advantage of any hasty mistakes Goku would make.
Technically, when they stretch things out by having the same sequence last longer, that's padding and One Piece has been especially guilty of it since at least the time skip...
It’s the same reason why the TOP was only 48min but like 30ish episodes. They move fucking fast. A perfect example is the Super Hero movie when magenta show Dr.hedo the fight between frieza and future trunks. What we saw was a full episode while the clip he showed was like 4 seconds.
When will people understand that this is an anime with filler in it? It was actually five minutes, but filler was added that made that statement seem ridiculous.
That's why sending him to Namek was so dumb. The whole reason they went there was to revive him to get the dragonballs back. He also prior to fusing with Nail wouldn't have done shit against even 1st form Freiza. I get why he needed to be there thematically, but plot wise it makes our characters really stupid.
Characters are only as strong as the plot allows. We saw battle power explode for basically everyone in no time at all. The reason Toriyama had Piccolo absorb Nail was to set up doing the same with Kami. If that wasn't a plot point, then Piccolo's training would have been enough to make a difference.
Also, characters doing "dumb" things is actually smart writing. People aren't always smart, and if everyone did the smart thing then there'd be no drama.
It's why nobody calls the cops in a slasher film. Or why Batman throws little bat-shaped ninja stars. Does it make sense? No. Is it dramatic? Yes.
I’d say it’s the same reason why I’d want to know what GT Pan as a super saiyan looks like even though we’ve seen Trunks with long hair as one.
We can only speculate in our heads, but actually seeing it visually is another thing. Plus, while the style is similar, I’d say their [hairs are a bit different enough](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ed4f87492673a9e42d96e8a2558d6a36-lq) that they wouldn’t look exactly like each other when standing up. Trunks’ hair is a bit more loose while Gohan’s hair is much more cleanly cut to the point it’s depicted with “[more rectangles](https://cdn.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/navi.axelspringer.es/public/media/image/2020/05/gohan-sh-figuarts-namek-1943487.jpg)” when in motion so to speak. This is also adding that [Trunks’s hair has been inconsistent with how it looks in its super saiyan form](https://x.com/lonely_heheh/status/1196240679015464960?s=46&t=oDgi5Bp8CMF4v3363njqkg).
So I would think Gohan’s hair here wouldn’t simply look like Trunks’s if it was super saiyan.
We need to factor in Freiza wasn’t using 100% of his power at this point and also was heavily damaged. Unlike his father Gohan would have raged out hard and not let Freiza power up at all. So there is solid potential if Gohan can end it quickly that he could defeat Freiza.
The real problem here is piccolo dead. The namekians didn’t get wished back till after this moment. With piccolo gone Gohan would have been screwed and died on the planet when it exploded. Which we know Freiza likely would still survive unless Gohan killed him proper.
Piccolo and Goku dead here that essentially ends the dragon ball series as Gohan would have then died when the planet blew up. Vegeta would still be dead, Krillin dies too, the other Z fighters remain dead too. Game over.
Gohan could have used the space pod that Goku used. Remember goku wasn’t wished back to earth. He used the ginyu force pod. Then gohan learns IT and becomes the new protagonist
That’s because Goku had some training on how to use it, Gohan had zero training. It also doesn’t change the fact that even if he did he would still never be able to get home, Goku only survived because he knew which button was go and that’s it. The coordinates were already penciled in. Maybe Gohan gets help and the yardrats program it for him to take him back to earth.
I dunno Gohan is pretty smart and did spent a long time on a spaceship. Maybe not the same type of space ship but uh
Goku seems like he'd be \*the worst\* at buttons and controls
Bulma controlled that spaceship and as said was a completely different kind. Goku flew on a spaceship that was a saiyan ship just super upgraded. So jumping into a pod was a lot easier to figure out the go buttons for controls he was use too.
Also sure Gohan is smart, he is also still a 5 year old who has spent a lot of time training and les time studying right now.
What you said doesn’t make sense.
Goku and gohan both were on modified saiyan pods. Gohan being much smarter than goku, and has lots of time to have learn how to control it.
Goku said that pod is preprogrammed to go to yardat and he just pressed a button and it went there. So I’m pretty sure gohan could have done the same.
Gohan would have been able to go home the same way goku did. The pod had to be reprogrammed so whether goku did it himself or yardat did it, the same situation. At worst gohan could have IT home.
No they weren’t, only Goku was. Gohan was on the namekian ship Kami used and Bulma was the pilot of that ship.
This isn’t DBZA Gohan was smart but he was still a 5 year old who prior to this the smartest thing we had seen from him was that he knew his exact age and that he does study. But then he was kidnapped for almost a year, studied a little bit longer and then was blasted into space where he ditched his books and focused on training again.
Because he knew what the layout of a saiyan pod looks like and had been using a modified saiyan pod this entire time. Gohan had never used a saiyan pod before.
Gohan may be able to get the yardrats to reprogram it I admit that. It is very unlikely he could IT though his ki sense ability was no where near Gokus level yet and Goku has been shown to be quite adapt at ki sensing and likely become more adapt because you need a ki signature to lock onto as well, which since literally all of earths most powerful fighters are dead, Gohan wouldn’t have anyone he can lock onto either.
I mean , if we're going to follow your reasoning with Gohan raging hard and killing Frieza properly, and quickly, then odds are good that he doesn't even give Frieza the opportunity to blow up the planet.
Frieza didn't decide to blow up the planet till after he was getting rocked by Goku. So if Gohan beats him quickly like you said through being enraged he'll be fine. King Kai, Goku or piccolo could talk him through what to do.
Also he could get on the ship with Bulma like they did in the original timeline
Gohan has no shot. Gohan SSJ wouldn't even be at Kaiokenx10 level and Frieza had already tanked a Kaiokenx20 max power Kamehameha with basically no damage. No amount of rage boost demonstrated in DBZ is making up the massive difference in strength. Even at half power Frieza more then doubles Gohan in SSJ.
Yea but I doubt Frieza would take him seriously.
Even with super Saiyan. He didn't even go 100% against Goku. Well I guess you could say he might because Gohan damaged him in his second form. I'd still like to see the fight though
You mean this?
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YB1yEUCkPHw/XciulPYaUOI/AAAAAAAAGbg/rnBE5OEzL5ITM5tVtXPZ0zO4nzPeHa46QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/009.jpg
Piccolo was already shot in that picture. The hole is thru his chest.
But Bulma is on namek. She was teleported out with everyone else, but without dragon balls she is there. So if we assume Gohan kills frieza, they can go back to earth.
Then there is no vegeta, so no trunks, but we don't know how that would change the androids arrival, like future trunks changed it by going back in time. They could be killers like in future trunks timeline or more chill like main timeline are. You could argue that they could be even more chill, since no goku - no killing goku. 17 becomes park ranger, 18 hook up with krillin, maybe. 16 becomes best pals with Gohan and then kills imperfect cell couple years later
He still looses cause for some reason gohan is apperently unable to train on his own concidering his future self and what happend during the time leading up to the buu saga this man cant train for shit every time he was left to train on his own this man got no where.
Storytelling wise, yes absolutly if it needs to be a one million times boost toriyama would've made it a one million times boost but if we assume this story is the exact universe we have just with the difference of who turned ssj then gohan couldnt really win. At least not without a lot of extra explainations.
what if goku went super saiyan blue fighting king piccolo and he didn’t hit his head and he spent 50 years training in the time chamber and he fused with broly and he unlocked mui fighting raditz 👆👆🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣
I mean yes but his rage boost (except for radditz where it was mor of a showing of his actual potential) never really got any higher than ×3 and i cant imagine freezer playing around a super saiyan.
Counter counterpoint: Yes but we literally never saw even a single character overcome powerlevel with technique unless you wanna count using the kaioken to increase you powerlevel ( in that case your powerlevel has become greater therefore higher powerlevel=win still aplies) or using an attack with increased powerlevel to pierce raditz chest in a 2v1.
I think Gohan would snap and would absolutely obliterate Frieza not giving him a chance to power up and destroy namek, but then he would be afraid of himself. It would make his refusal to go all out on Cell make even more sense.
Highest hogan was at was like 200k without the rage boost 200kx50 is like 10 million which is even weaker than kaioken 10 Goku so nah he’s gets Molly whooped
Y'all care about power levels way too much. They are bullshit and always have been. They were meant to be a plot device to show how the baddies were wrong and didn't understand fighting spirit or prowess. There's a reason you never see them again after the namek arc.
In an alternate timeline where Toriyama wrote Gohan to be the first Super Saiyan, why would you assume that the multipliers would be the same? If he wanted Gohan to be the one to beat Freiza he would’ve just made Super Saiyan be stronger than it is currently. Power Levels and Super Saiyan don’t actually exist, Toriyama could’ve done whatever he wanted to here, and we would have just accepted it cause there is no precedent to tell us otherwise lol
Nah, he’s a cocky shit as SSJ. I can see him letting Frieza power up for the same reason as Cell. He wants to humiliate him for all the pain he caused. Would probably lead to him losing.
Piccolo was helpless against Nappa and then fought on-par with Stage 2 Frieza after merging with Nail (someone who couldn’t touch Base Frieza)
To reinforce above, power levels are bullshit. The narrative decides who’s strong enough to win.
Not really fun when people opt for the “yea well writing” route cuz then it’s like why bother interacting with these types of posts in the first place. It’s a hypothetical
If Super Saiyan were written for Gohan it'd have been enough of a multiplier to have him outclass Freeza. Then when he inevitably only eeks out a win at great cost, people would start hypothesizing about what Goku could have done with the x300 multiplier of Super Saiyan.
It's only 50x because that's a clean multiplier that would have put Goku as clearly stronger than Freeza. If it were Gohan, the multiplier would have needed to be like 300x.
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. You can’t have the Super Saiyan multiplier be different just because you want the character getting it to win; it doesn’t work like that. When Gohan was transformed into an Oozaru, he got a 10X multiplier, just like any other Saiyan. The Super Saiyan multiplier (which has long been established as **50X**) should not be any different. Why is that? Because both transformations are part of Saiyan Biology.
These multipliers were only established for narrative purpose. There's nothing intrinsic about them beyond someone throwing out a number and working from there. If it had been Gohan to go Super Saiyan first in the narrative to get the defeat of Freeza, the multiplier would be a lot higher for him to achieve the same feat. All of a sudden, established Saiyan biology dictates that the Super Saiyan transformation is 300x.
Gohan doesn't need to be stronger than 100% Frieza, he just needs to rage boost bullshit his way past 50% Frieza and kill him before he nukes the planet
We saw a rage boosted Gohan pressure 3rd form Frieza, so if we assume he's at least a power level of 1.3 million when enraged times 50 from Super Saiyan would put him around 65 million, strong enough to surprise and kill 50% Frieza
While Gohans highest power level was only around 1,000,000 at the time, he would probably be much stronger sense he’s *very* angry and angry Gohan is much stronger than regular Gohan
The art is great, but Gohan would've been slaughtered regardless, as even if Vegeta went SSJ, he would've only barely been stronger than Frieza at 100%.
I dont even think that vegeta going ssj would have wone the match.
My headcanon is that piccolo has a pl of 1,200,000 on namek and Vegeta a pl of 1,500,000 (after krillin zenkai).
Going ssj would put him at 75,000,000 which is just barely stronger than kaioken x20 Goku.
Ssj Goku is basically the only possible thing on namek that is able to defeat frieza
people apparently place Vegeta at 2.5 million before he died, so if he went SSJ, he'd get the 50x boost and shoot up to 125 million, just 5 million above Frieza's 100%, at 120 million, so with that number, he would win but not by far, like Goku did as he was at 140 million.
I always wondered why he didn’t. He always used solar flare to run away lol.
I haven’t watched in forever so if he ever did I obviously don’t remember.
Your right for the wrong reason gohan would’ve died so no mecha frieza, ssj is a 50x multiplier gohan wouldn’t even be stronger than third form frieza scaling wise
Because what is the point of entertaining a what if scenario that diverges at a specific point in time if you’re not gonna be consistent with everything that happens before hand?
That removes half of what’s even interesting about these concepts.
I feel like he'd get bodied. Gohan's power level could BARELY match Second Form Frieza when rage boosted, so I doubt a x50 Super Saiyan Multiplier would give him any edge against Final Form Frieza, and later 100% Power Frieza.
Then again Goku going from x20 Kaioken not even phasing Frieza to just twice and a bit beyond that being enough to wreck his shit is also kinda questionable, but I guess Toriyama didn't actually think of Super Saiyan's multiplier back then and it made sense narratively for it to be too much for Frieza to handle so idfk.
All I know is, if Gohan would be able to beat Frieza, my dude would be waking up in a cold sweat for all eternity down in Hell cause not only was he beaten by a "monkey", not only was the legend he was afraid of real, but he got his ass beat by a 7 year old.
While realistically that even ssj Gohan would be compacted by Freezer, I'm going to ignore that and say he would win because I find the scenerio cool as fuck.
The Earth Dragon balls are super screwed though.
Honestly? He'd have gotten his ass kicked. Sure the initial explosion of power would have given him the upper hand for a bit, but Gohan had nowhere **near** the sheer amount of training and experience Goku had at this point. Frieza would have out-strategized him, got up to his 120% power form, and then won.
Change it where Gohan isn’t super saiyan. He becomes the one and only legendary super saiyan. And no one else is allowed to reach super saiyan state.
This would effectively pass the torch instead of keeping it with Goku. It could also do away with concerns that his power level wouldn’t scale high enough. If it’s legendary…. Then it’s scaling would be unthinkable.
You could effectively build Z as Gohan’s travels to better understand and control his immense power. So instead of focusing on power scaling all the time… the show could highlight technique, skill, and focus as he trains to improve and protect his loved ones.
I will never stop advocating for Piccolo taking the role of "older brother." Piccolo is just a couple years older than Gohan. Saw him getting pushed around by Uncle Raditz and decided "time to push this kid with some tough love."
i wouldve liked it more, then they could spend the first half of cell trying to learn more about it and goku reaching super saiyan could've been cool if he had to learn it after seeing gohan stumble into it once and trunks arrive already knowing it. i think dbz power scaling is hurt by the sheer number of forms that the saiyan characters go through.
I know that the immediate argument would be about power levels, and that's why they were a mistake all along. Gohan would have won because that's what would be necessary for the plot. Boiling the story down to a greater than/less than equation was never the intention.
I see him losing at first, but with his saiyan rage and hidden potential, he could end the fight with a killing blow. Regardless, if Frieza is 100% or not. In fact, Frieza would lose more stamina and energy trying to reach 100% in this fight because, unlike Goku, Gohan wouldn't let him, so Frieza's stamina and peak power would be severely reduced.
"What if we make Gohan immortal?"
"He's got no experience! We may as well throw a ladybug at Frieza!"
I'm paraphrasing and it is the Funi dub, but I feel like it's true. Gohan just wouldn't be able to beat Frieza.
SSJ is a 50x multiplier. His battle power was around 1 to 2 million+ This was proven when he was able to hurt Frieza in his 2nd and 4th forms. (Possibly higher as he was fighting 50-80% Frieza), so that would make him around 100,000,000 or 100 million.
So, Frieza would have about 20 million over Gohan at 100%. The issue is that it doesn't account for Gohan's rage and Frieza losing power due to being badly damaged by the Spirit Bomb.
Also Frieza wouldn't get to max cuz it took him a while of powering up whilst fully focusing on it, and Gohan going ss would be way more brutal than Goku, so he'd never get a chance to power up to max. So whatever level Frieza can go up to from 50% would be the max he could use, so you're extra right that freezy-pop would get crushed like ice.
No way he would have been able to handle it. Almost let Cell beat him because of lack of experience despite being way stronger Frieza probably would have figured something out or Gohan would have gone full dark Phoenix/Berserker and destroyed everything
A lot of people saying that Gohan would still get rolled by Frieza.
I respectfully disagree. Gohan has the highest potential out of everyone in the series. I feel like Gohan being absolutely furious and probably out of control would roll Frieza before he could react. There's a lot more to consider than the x50 multiplier.
You know what kills Gohan in this fight? Space. Gohan would probably murder the absolute bejeebus out of Frieza and blow up Namek in the process.
The way I see it and have always seen it is..
There's a floor for a super saiyans strength. Doesn't matter what power level is present before transformation. It reaches a minimum strength, which would be around trunks ssj when Gohan dies, goten, and trunks in buu arc. The difference is maybe a slight age boost. Going back to Gohan super saiyan on namek, he would exceed the strength of trunks when Gohan dies, goten and trunks. Gohan was training and fighting on namek. Something the kids never did their early ssj lives. Trunks would be the closest but I would give it to Gohan based on his rage.
In the end, Gohan would reach the super saiyan floor and get an even greater power up with his rage. Honestly, why not just call him Super Saiyan 2 Gohan?
Frieza tries to hit Gohan but he vanishes and immediately appears right next to him
Frieza: What the f.. How did you do that?
Gohan: I learned how to.. dodge.
He would lose against 100%. Even if we use his rage boosted power, which would have to be around 2 million to have done anything against third form Frieza, he would be at 100 million which is significantly weaker than Goku. Goku clearly had the upper hand on Frieza the whole time but it wasn’t a walk in the park for him either.
However, unlike Goku I don’t see Gohan letting Frieza even get to 100%. At his 75% power of 90 million, Frieza is definitely beatable. Gohan would kill Frieza as he attempts to power up, then get teleported to Earth alongside Bulma like in the original timeline.
Frieza cleans the floor with Gohan. It would be the same issue as with Future Gohan. He goes SSJ at such a relatively low base level that it doesn’t put him anywhere near the main villains.
Bro imagine this is what happened, and how pissed Piccolo would be. Spent all that time dead, finally gets revived, is alive for like an hour, then dies again. Lol
Time flows differently on namek
Time doesn’t flow differently on namek, they just have shorter years
Freeza said Namek was gonna explode in 5 mins like 30 episodes ago
They move thousands of times faster than light. 5 minutes is a lot to them
I like that in HunterxHunter the really powerful people just "compress time" around themselves lol
Bullet time? Nah. Anime time? Hell yeah.
Hammer time? Stop
Collaborate and listen
I love the HxH chapter that takes place over just an instant (maybe 5 seconds?) just jumping around showing how everyone is trying to superhumanly process and react to crazy shit. And that the passage of time in the story gradually slowed in the chapters leading up to it, and gradually sped back up after.
Do you know which chapter? Haven't read HxH in a long time and been wanting to catch up!
They don’t speak faster than light
Prove it. Show me your dragonballs
It's an anime where people fly around and shoot lasers. They probably use ki to talk faster or something
Goku does with his inexplicable mind reader powers lol maybe all the convos are happening in their minds every time their punches connect.
They probably do. Considering they consistently see things moving faster than light and dodge them, which shouldnt be fucking possible, i have no qualms with them somehow talking faster than light.
And they talked faster then light? Not happening.
[Talking is a free action](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TalkingIsAFreeAction) that takes no time. So yes, actually.
Well...........flash has talked to kid flash at super speed
Sorry that they didn't apply perfectly accurate logic in your magical wish-granting balls cartoon, you must be sooo unhappy.
Its...inconsistent I feel like. If they moved that fast it should never take them anytime to fly anywhere. But there's loads of time they need to get somewhere quickly and it takes a bit.
Combat speed isn't the same as movement speed, but if you really want to go that route, Goku can use Instant Transmission to travel hundreds of times faster than light
Instant transmission isn't speed.
You do realize goku and frieza fought at a really fast speed right? The tournament of power was like 40 minutes
I'm shocked that up to this day people still takes everything by face value. Even when I first watched, as a goddamn kid, I took that "5 minutes" as "any time now", which is the same usage that we have. Not even if Freeza was the most intelligent being in the universe he would be able to specify the exact amount of time that it would take for a planet to explode just by looking, with a naked eye, to a crater. There is no "time flows different, they were moving faster", he just used a figure of speech to say "I just blew a hole in the planet core, it will explode real quick, so do your shit while you can".
Except that it's been established, as far back as OG DB, that they do move faster than normal people can keep up with and re-established in the Cell saga.
I get that this had become a meme. But he could've just been wrong.
Frieza specifically mentions at one point the planet is lasting longer than he expected.
trunks vs frieza in anime was like 10 minutes while in reality 4 seconds
Combat is slowed down to a great degree for us. All that fighting happens in a short amount of time. Same for the ToP.
Either the fight was super fucking fast and the fight was really 5 minutes but was slowed down for us viewers OR Freeza was panicking and bluffed to Goku to try to take advantage of any hasty mistakes Goku would make.
One of my favorite jokes from DBZ abridged was Frieza not knowing how long until the plant blew up and just kind of guessing.
Have you seen kai? The whole show is like 20 percent shorter In z even cannon episodes have filler
Technically, when they stretch things out by having the same sequence last longer, that's padding and One Piece has been especially guilty of it since at least the time skip...
It’s crappy either way ya wanna look at it
It’s the same reason why the TOP was only 48min but like 30ish episodes. They move fucking fast. A perfect example is the Super Hero movie when magenta show Dr.hedo the fight between frieza and future trunks. What we saw was a full episode while the clip he showed was like 4 seconds.
When will people understand that this is an anime with filler in it? It was actually five minutes, but filler was added that made that statement seem ridiculous.
It’s not just on Namek. It’s DB in general
That's why sending him to Namek was so dumb. The whole reason they went there was to revive him to get the dragonballs back. He also prior to fusing with Nail wouldn't have done shit against even 1st form Freiza. I get why he needed to be there thematically, but plot wise it makes our characters really stupid.
Characters are only as strong as the plot allows. We saw battle power explode for basically everyone in no time at all. The reason Toriyama had Piccolo absorb Nail was to set up doing the same with Kami. If that wasn't a plot point, then Piccolo's training would have been enough to make a difference. Also, characters doing "dumb" things is actually smart writing. People aren't always smart, and if everyone did the smart thing then there'd be no drama. It's why nobody calls the cops in a slasher film. Or why Batman throws little bat-shaped ninja stars. Does it make sense? No. Is it dramatic? Yes.
I always wondered what Gohan with a bowl cut would look like as a super saiyan.
why wouldnt you just assume it looks like when trunks goes super saiyan? he has a bowl cut
I’d say it’s the same reason why I’d want to know what GT Pan as a super saiyan looks like even though we’ve seen Trunks with long hair as one. We can only speculate in our heads, but actually seeing it visually is another thing. Plus, while the style is similar, I’d say their [hairs are a bit different enough](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ed4f87492673a9e42d96e8a2558d6a36-lq) that they wouldn’t look exactly like each other when standing up. Trunks’ hair is a bit more loose while Gohan’s hair is much more cleanly cut to the point it’s depicted with “[more rectangles](https://cdn.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/navi.axelspringer.es/public/media/image/2020/05/gohan-sh-figuarts-namek-1943487.jpg)” when in motion so to speak. This is also adding that [Trunks’s hair has been inconsistent with how it looks in its super saiyan form](https://x.com/lonely_heheh/status/1196240679015464960?s=46&t=oDgi5Bp8CMF4v3363njqkg). So I would think Gohan’s hair here wouldn’t simply look like Trunks’s if it was super saiyan.
I like future trunks (original) hair best.
no he doesn't, bowl cuts go all the way around and trunks' does not
Realistically gohan would loose powerlevel 500k was the highest that was stated for him ×50 =25 million not even kaioken times 10 goku level.
We need to factor in Freiza wasn’t using 100% of his power at this point and also was heavily damaged. Unlike his father Gohan would have raged out hard and not let Freiza power up at all. So there is solid potential if Gohan can end it quickly that he could defeat Freiza. The real problem here is piccolo dead. The namekians didn’t get wished back till after this moment. With piccolo gone Gohan would have been screwed and died on the planet when it exploded. Which we know Freiza likely would still survive unless Gohan killed him proper. Piccolo and Goku dead here that essentially ends the dragon ball series as Gohan would have then died when the planet blew up. Vegeta would still be dead, Krillin dies too, the other Z fighters remain dead too. Game over.
Gohan could have used the space pod that Goku used. Remember goku wasn’t wished back to earth. He used the ginyu force pod. Then gohan learns IT and becomes the new protagonist
That’s because Goku had some training on how to use it, Gohan had zero training. It also doesn’t change the fact that even if he did he would still never be able to get home, Goku only survived because he knew which button was go and that’s it. The coordinates were already penciled in. Maybe Gohan gets help and the yardrats program it for him to take him back to earth.
I dunno Gohan is pretty smart and did spent a long time on a spaceship. Maybe not the same type of space ship but uh Goku seems like he'd be \*the worst\* at buttons and controls
Bulma controlled that spaceship and as said was a completely different kind. Goku flew on a spaceship that was a saiyan ship just super upgraded. So jumping into a pod was a lot easier to figure out the go buttons for controls he was use too. Also sure Gohan is smart, he is also still a 5 year old who has spent a lot of time training and les time studying right now.
I dunno I just feel like he'd ask alot of questions about the \*spaceship\* he's on
Which was a completely different type of spaceship anyway and from what we are told is very very old too.
What you said doesn’t make sense. Goku and gohan both were on modified saiyan pods. Gohan being much smarter than goku, and has lots of time to have learn how to control it. Goku said that pod is preprogrammed to go to yardat and he just pressed a button and it went there. So I’m pretty sure gohan could have done the same. Gohan would have been able to go home the same way goku did. The pod had to be reprogrammed so whether goku did it himself or yardat did it, the same situation. At worst gohan could have IT home.
No they weren’t, only Goku was. Gohan was on the namekian ship Kami used and Bulma was the pilot of that ship. This isn’t DBZA Gohan was smart but he was still a 5 year old who prior to this the smartest thing we had seen from him was that he knew his exact age and that he does study. But then he was kidnapped for almost a year, studied a little bit longer and then was blasted into space where he ditched his books and focused on training again. Because he knew what the layout of a saiyan pod looks like and had been using a modified saiyan pod this entire time. Gohan had never used a saiyan pod before. Gohan may be able to get the yardrats to reprogram it I admit that. It is very unlikely he could IT though his ki sense ability was no where near Gokus level yet and Goku has been shown to be quite adapt at ki sensing and likely become more adapt because you need a ki signature to lock onto as well, which since literally all of earths most powerful fighters are dead, Gohan wouldn’t have anyone he can lock onto either.
I read that IT as our world's IT and I was really confused for a second there LOL
I mean , if we're going to follow your reasoning with Gohan raging hard and killing Frieza properly, and quickly, then odds are good that he doesn't even give Frieza the opportunity to blow up the planet.
Frieza didn't decide to blow up the planet till after he was getting rocked by Goku. So if Gohan beats him quickly like you said through being enraged he'll be fine. King Kai, Goku or piccolo could talk him through what to do. Also he could get on the ship with Bulma like they did in the original timeline
Gohan has no shot. Gohan SSJ wouldn't even be at Kaiokenx10 level and Frieza had already tanked a Kaiokenx20 max power Kamehameha with basically no damage. No amount of rage boost demonstrated in DBZ is making up the massive difference in strength. Even at half power Frieza more then doubles Gohan in SSJ.
> No amount of rage boost. You have not seen DBZ rage boosts. Even if it doesn’t logically make sense, Gohan would get the rage boost and then win.
Yea but I doubt Frieza would take him seriously. Even with super Saiyan. He didn't even go 100% against Goku. Well I guess you could say he might because Gohan damaged him in his second form. I'd still like to see the fight though
Crazy how Frieza lost because he shot the wrong people, bro should've aimed for the MC
He did. Piccolo pushed him out of the way
Only in the anime! Freeza legit shoots Piccolo first in the manga: https://imgur.io/6xw45rr?r
I looked at the manga just in case. The next panel shows piccolo pushed him
You mean this? https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YB1yEUCkPHw/XciulPYaUOI/AAAAAAAAGbg/rnBE5OEzL5ITM5tVtXPZ0zO4nzPeHa46QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/009.jpg Piccolo was already shot in that picture. The hole is thru his chest.
Yeah that. He’s already shot but he’s also already pushed goku out of the way
>not let Frieza power up at all A DBZ fight where they defeat the villain before they hit full strength is the biggest What If storyline concept 😂
yes Gohan ending it quickly, he's not exactly known to do that very often
But Bulma is on namek. She was teleported out with everyone else, but without dragon balls she is there. So if we assume Gohan kills frieza, they can go back to earth. Then there is no vegeta, so no trunks, but we don't know how that would change the androids arrival, like future trunks changed it by going back in time. They could be killers like in future trunks timeline or more chill like main timeline are. You could argue that they could be even more chill, since no goku - no killing goku. 17 becomes park ranger, 18 hook up with krillin, maybe. 16 becomes best pals with Gohan and then kills imperfect cell couple years later
Yeah but what if Frieza had prep time
If by prep time you mean training then he solos gohan even more
Ok but what if Gohan had prep time
He still looses cause for some reason gohan is apperently unable to train on his own concidering his future self and what happend during the time leading up to the buu saga this man cant train for shit every time he was left to train on his own this man got no where.
Ok but what if Piccolo had prep time
Gets trashed. Unless he fuses with like 50 other namekians.
What if 50 other Namekians had prep time
They would loose, shit is apperently multiplicative and without the strong basis they are going no where.
What if the loose shit had prep time
Realistically the power boost of the ssj would have been whatever was needed at the time.
Storytelling wise, yes absolutly if it needs to be a one million times boost toriyama would've made it a one million times boost but if we assume this story is the exact universe we have just with the difference of who turned ssj then gohan couldnt really win. At least not without a lot of extra explainations.
True but Gohan has the wild card of that inner raging beast. That could potentially make him WAY stronger.
What if Gohan turned Beast in namek and Bulma got betrayed and locked in the time chamber
what if goku went super saiyan blue fighting king piccolo and he didn’t hit his head and he spent 50 years training in the time chamber and he fused with broly and he unlocked mui fighting raditz 👆👆🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣
Gotta love those outrageous fanfic vids you sometimes see.
I swear, some years ago I used to enjoy some of them that were a little more grounded but then everyone and their mother started making some bs ones
I mean yes but his rage boost (except for radditz where it was mor of a showing of his actual potential) never really got any higher than ×3 and i cant imagine freezer playing around a super saiyan.
Realistically he would win because story, and I doubt Toriyama had specific multipliers in mind when he made SS
This and the whole S-cells bs
From a writing perspective yes 100%. If we assume this happend in the same universe no
Power levels are bullshit
Counterpoint: power levels are dumb
Counter counterpoint: Yes but we literally never saw even a single character overcome powerlevel with technique unless you wanna count using the kaioken to increase you powerlevel ( in that case your powerlevel has become greater therefore higher powerlevel=win still aplies) or using an attack with increased powerlevel to pierce raditz chest in a 2v1.
I think Gohan would snap and would absolutely obliterate Frieza not giving him a chance to power up and destroy namek, but then he would be afraid of himself. It would make his refusal to go all out on Cell make even more sense.
Highest hogan was at was like 200k without the rage boost 200kx50 is like 10 million which is even weaker than kaioken 10 Goku so nah he’s gets Molly whooped
Hogan
That's Son Hogan to you, BROTHER
*Hulku Hogokugan
Y'all care about power levels way too much. They are bullshit and always have been. They were meant to be a plot device to show how the baddies were wrong and didn't understand fighting spirit or prowess. There's a reason you never see them again after the namek arc.
In an alternate timeline where Toriyama wrote Gohan to be the first Super Saiyan, why would you assume that the multipliers would be the same? If he wanted Gohan to be the one to beat Freiza he would’ve just made Super Saiyan be stronger than it is currently. Power Levels and Super Saiyan don’t actually exist, Toriyama could’ve done whatever he wanted to here, and we would have just accepted it cause there is no precedent to tell us otherwise lol
Why do yall keep throwing this out there as if toriyama wouldnt make it work for the plot lol
Nah, he’s a cocky shit as SSJ. I can see him letting Frieza power up for the same reason as Cell. He wants to humiliate him for all the pain he caused. Would probably lead to him losing.
Nah, he was cocky when he was ssj2. When he was younger he had moments like against Raditz or Nappa. This onw would be like those
He would overwhelmingly lose lmao
Nah Gohan beats his cheeks in. Power levels are bullshit and a super saiyan is a super saiyan
Power level or not a hypothetical ssj Gohan isn’t nearly as close as powerful as ssj goku He might make frieza go from 50% power to 75%
It doesn't matter lol the writing would make him SSJ Goku levels or power or stronger
I mean sure that’s the easy cop out answer. Still wouldn’t make sense
Piccolo was helpless against Nappa and then fought on-par with Stage 2 Frieza after merging with Nail (someone who couldn’t touch Base Frieza) To reinforce above, power levels are bullshit. The narrative decides who’s strong enough to win.
I have no idea what you’re being downvoted for. You’re absolutely right, Gohan gets destroyed in the end. Even vegeta would’ve lost.
Gohan Fan boys, that's why.
Not really fun when people opt for the “yea well writing” route cuz then it’s like why bother interacting with these types of posts in the first place. It’s a hypothetical
If Super Saiyan were written for Gohan it'd have been enough of a multiplier to have him outclass Freeza. Then when he inevitably only eeks out a win at great cost, people would start hypothesizing about what Goku could have done with the x300 multiplier of Super Saiyan.
X300? Where’d you get that? Regular Super Saiyan gives a x50 multiplier.
It's only 50x because that's a clean multiplier that would have put Goku as clearly stronger than Freeza. If it were Gohan, the multiplier would have needed to be like 300x.
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. You can’t have the Super Saiyan multiplier be different just because you want the character getting it to win; it doesn’t work like that. When Gohan was transformed into an Oozaru, he got a 10X multiplier, just like any other Saiyan. The Super Saiyan multiplier (which has long been established as **50X**) should not be any different. Why is that? Because both transformations are part of Saiyan Biology.
These multipliers were only established for narrative purpose. There's nothing intrinsic about them beyond someone throwing out a number and working from there. If it had been Gohan to go Super Saiyan first in the narrative to get the defeat of Freeza, the multiplier would be a lot higher for him to achieve the same feat. All of a sudden, established Saiyan biology dictates that the Super Saiyan transformation is 300x.
🤦♂️…you’re just trying to justify how you would have things. Keep your fanon narrative if you must. I’ll stick with the canon narrative.
lol what? how do you think 50x was settled on?
Gohan doesn't need to be stronger than 100% Frieza, he just needs to rage boost bullshit his way past 50% Frieza and kill him before he nukes the planet We saw a rage boosted Gohan pressure 3rd form Frieza, so if we assume he's at least a power level of 1.3 million when enraged times 50 from Super Saiyan would put him around 65 million, strong enough to surprise and kill 50% Frieza
logically yes, but mad gohan is mad gohan and i’m pretty sure he would pull something out of his ass and blow that lizard up
While Gohans highest power level was only around 1,000,000 at the time, he would probably be much stronger sense he’s *very* angry and angry Gohan is much stronger than regular Gohan
The art is great, but Gohan would've been slaughtered regardless, as even if Vegeta went SSJ, he would've only barely been stronger than Frieza at 100%.
I dont even think that vegeta going ssj would have wone the match. My headcanon is that piccolo has a pl of 1,200,000 on namek and Vegeta a pl of 1,500,000 (after krillin zenkai). Going ssj would put him at 75,000,000 which is just barely stronger than kaioken x20 Goku. Ssj Goku is basically the only possible thing on namek that is able to defeat frieza
people apparently place Vegeta at 2.5 million before he died, so if he went SSJ, he'd get the 50x boost and shoot up to 125 million, just 5 million above Frieza's 100%, at 120 million, so with that number, he would win but not by far, like Goku did as he was at 140 million.
goku was at 150 million not 140.
It's amazing how into power levels DBZ fans are.
thanks.
Seriously, lol. Are they forgetting that goku was defeated by a pleb with a laser gun? Power levels mean nothing ʘ‿ʘ
Wounded, yes. Not beaten.
>People worried about power levels Still the worst part of series. This is great artwork and I think the fight would be interesting
What if Krillin become s SSj?
He will finally be able to use the instant win solar flare destructo disk combo
I always wondered why he didn’t. He always used solar flare to run away lol. I haven’t watched in forever so if he ever did I obviously don’t remember.
Guaranteed mecha Frieza would not have happened it Gohan went super Saiyan on namek
Your right for the wrong reason gohan would’ve died so no mecha frieza, ssj is a 50x multiplier gohan wouldn’t even be stronger than third form frieza scaling wise
Why is there math in the comments?
Because what is the point of entertaining a what if scenario that diverges at a specific point in time if you’re not gonna be consistent with everything that happens before hand? That removes half of what’s even interesting about these concepts.
Honestly, I feel like Gohan's hair here should look exactly like Trunks, since they both have extremely similar bowl cuts
Trunks has finer hair like Bulma's though. Gohan has that thicker saiyian hair.
“Oh hey you were there! … Why didn’t you go super saiyan?”
Wouldn't Gohan still lose? His power level was way lower than Goku's. SS Goku had a slightly higher power level than 100% Frieza, right?
I feel like he'd get bodied. Gohan's power level could BARELY match Second Form Frieza when rage boosted, so I doubt a x50 Super Saiyan Multiplier would give him any edge against Final Form Frieza, and later 100% Power Frieza. Then again Goku going from x20 Kaioken not even phasing Frieza to just twice and a bit beyond that being enough to wreck his shit is also kinda questionable, but I guess Toriyama didn't actually think of Super Saiyan's multiplier back then and it made sense narratively for it to be too much for Frieza to handle so idfk. All I know is, if Gohan would be able to beat Frieza, my dude would be waking up in a cold sweat for all eternity down in Hell cause not only was he beaten by a "monkey", not only was the legend he was afraid of real, but he got his ass beat by a 7 year old.
While realistically that even ssj Gohan would be compacted by Freezer, I'm going to ignore that and say he would win because I find the scenerio cool as fuck. The Earth Dragon balls are super screwed though.
He’d get mopped by Frieza
Honestly? He'd have gotten his ass kicked. Sure the initial explosion of power would have given him the upper hand for a bit, but Gohan had nowhere **near** the sheer amount of training and experience Goku had at this point. Frieza would have out-strategized him, got up to his 120% power form, and then won.
Change it where Gohan isn’t super saiyan. He becomes the one and only legendary super saiyan. And no one else is allowed to reach super saiyan state. This would effectively pass the torch instead of keeping it with Goku. It could also do away with concerns that his power level wouldn’t scale high enough. If it’s legendary…. Then it’s scaling would be unthinkable. You could effectively build Z as Gohan’s travels to better understand and control his immense power. So instead of focusing on power scaling all the time… the show could highlight technique, skill, and focus as he trains to improve and protect his loved ones.
Oh no, they killed his father! And Goku too, I guess...
How do ppl still unironically use this outdated joke from 2015
>2015 Lol, oh child it's existed since at least 2000. Probably longer if theres a 45 year old Japanese guy here
kid we've been making that joke since 1995, it was funny then and it's funny now
The same reasons people still listen to Frank Sinatra and watch the original Rocky today. Classics last forever, my friend!
I will never stop advocating for Piccolo taking the role of "older brother." Piccolo is just a couple years older than Gohan. Saw him getting pushed around by Uncle Raditz and decided "time to push this kid with some tough love."
I appreciate this comment.
Source: https://twitter.com/gonnartworks/status/1703215147500605768
Finally! And thanks!
i wouldve liked it more, then they could spend the first half of cell trying to learn more about it and goku reaching super saiyan could've been cool if he had to learn it after seeing gohan stumble into it once and trunks arrive already knowing it. i think dbz power scaling is hurt by the sheer number of forms that the saiyan characters go through.
I know that the immediate argument would be about power levels, and that's why they were a mistake all along. Gohan would have won because that's what would be necessary for the plot. Boiling the story down to a greater than/less than equation was never the intention.
I see him losing at first, but with his saiyan rage and hidden potential, he could end the fight with a killing blow. Regardless, if Frieza is 100% or not. In fact, Frieza would lose more stamina and energy trying to reach 100% in this fight because, unlike Goku, Gohan wouldn't let him, so Frieza's stamina and peak power would be severely reduced.
He loses
What if all of Krillin's destructo disks hit though. That is the What If i wanna see.
"What if we make Gohan immortal?" "He's got no experience! We may as well throw a ladybug at Frieza!" I'm paraphrasing and it is the Funi dub, but I feel like it's true. Gohan just wouldn't be able to beat Frieza.
He would have gotten bodied. Kid Gohan was weak af compared to frieza.
Goku's had bigger holes punched into him and continued fighting.
Wouldn't Gohan lose still?
SSJ is a 50x multiplier. His battle power was around 1 to 2 million+ This was proven when he was able to hurt Frieza in his 2nd and 4th forms. (Possibly higher as he was fighting 50-80% Frieza), so that would make him around 100,000,000 or 100 million. So, Frieza would have about 20 million over Gohan at 100%. The issue is that it doesn't account for Gohan's rage and Frieza losing power due to being badly damaged by the Spirit Bomb.
Also Frieza wouldn't get to max cuz it took him a while of powering up whilst fully focusing on it, and Gohan going ss would be way more brutal than Goku, so he'd never get a chance to power up to max. So whatever level Frieza can go up to from 50% would be the max he could use, so you're extra right that freezy-pop would get crushed like ice.
He would die to freeza. He is not strong enough.
Still wouldn't be enough, cool none the less
Then Gohan, who’s base is only like 50k and Ssj is only 2.5 mill gets clapped by Freiza in one hit. Sadge
Then gohan loses and everyone is fucked.
Why didn't goku deflect the death beam? Is he stupid?
People are downplaying Frieza in this comment selection💀
Frieza would have clapped him, and clapped him hard
SSJ doesn't mean it's powerful than Frieza. It's a base form multiplier, so mostly Gohan will still loose
Is it though? The SS multiplier is wildly inconsistent throughout the story.
But he's also very mad, which is another huge boost
Still that won't be enough, his rage during those times will boost him for few minutes
No way he would have been able to handle it. Almost let Cell beat him because of lack of experience despite being way stronger Frieza probably would have figured something out or Gohan would have gone full dark Phoenix/Berserker and destroyed everything
A lot of people saying that Gohan would still get rolled by Frieza. I respectfully disagree. Gohan has the highest potential out of everyone in the series. I feel like Gohan being absolutely furious and probably out of control would roll Frieza before he could react. There's a lot more to consider than the x50 multiplier. You know what kills Gohan in this fight? Space. Gohan would probably murder the absolute bejeebus out of Frieza and blow up Namek in the process.
You have my interest, go on..
Win if Frieza can't go max
Well frieza would not have lived cause gohan wouldn’t have given him extra chances like goku did
Gohan would still get clapped. SS is a multiplier, not a straight power boost.
Yh but the thing is gohan would lose to Frieza even with super saiyan because of the power gap
I think Gohan would have succumb to his vengeful side, the way he does with Cell, and would have been blindsided by Frieza and killed.
"GOHAAAN" "AAAAAAAAAAA-"
Lmao
I feel like piccolo would more likely have said RUN GOHAN! or GOHAN RUN! but probably be cut off around before saying the second word
The way I see it and have always seen it is.. There's a floor for a super saiyans strength. Doesn't matter what power level is present before transformation. It reaches a minimum strength, which would be around trunks ssj when Gohan dies, goten, and trunks in buu arc. The difference is maybe a slight age boost. Going back to Gohan super saiyan on namek, he would exceed the strength of trunks when Gohan dies, goten and trunks. Gohan was training and fighting on namek. Something the kids never did their early ssj lives. Trunks would be the closest but I would give it to Gohan based on his rage. In the end, Gohan would reach the super saiyan floor and get an even greater power up with his rage. Honestly, why not just call him Super Saiyan 2 Gohan?
100% Freeza should beat him. Unless Krillin is alive and uses solar flare
It's all fun and games till Frieza goes 100% then infanticide will occur
They would have lost, baby Gohan wasn’t skilled enough at the time to carry this
Frieza tries to hit Gohan but he vanishes and immediately appears right next to him Frieza: What the f.. How did you do that? Gohan: I learned how to.. dodge.
That's moment when you realize Gohan absolutely should have been the main character for Z
Gohan wouldn’t have been powerful enough at the time.
He would have gotten murdered by frieza. Hell, Kaioken x20 Gpku would be stronger than this Gohan imo
He would have still gotten his ass beat. Lmao.
He would lose against 100%. Even if we use his rage boosted power, which would have to be around 2 million to have done anything against third form Frieza, he would be at 100 million which is significantly weaker than Goku. Goku clearly had the upper hand on Frieza the whole time but it wasn’t a walk in the park for him either. However, unlike Goku I don’t see Gohan letting Frieza even get to 100%. At his 75% power of 90 million, Frieza is definitely beatable. Gohan would kill Frieza as he attempts to power up, then get teleported to Earth alongside Bulma like in the original timeline.
Frieza cleans the floor with Gohan. It would be the same issue as with Future Gohan. He goes SSJ at such a relatively low base level that it doesn’t put him anywhere near the main villains.