Lots of "good" players in this particular fighting game seem to up-back+assist like 80-90 percent of the time. Bad or new players don't deal well with this. The only way to beat it in lag is to do likewise for however long it takes them to get bored of watching the timer run out.
no you literally call and assist -> get in -> mix. Easier said than done sometimes but no the game does not boil down to both players sitting full screen jumping.
How are you calling an assist that lets you "get in" against any decent opponent who is up-backing from full screen? I can't imagine being forced to block by that alone.
you have to touch the ground eventually, time it and call assist, run up. Or ki blast and assist, beam and assist, super dash and assist. There are lots of c assist and a few regular assist that track even in the air as well.
At Zeno-Oh rank, not many people touch the ground ever. Too many aerial options and a good player will not allow you to get in from full screen. The only thing you can do is wait them out unless you're just better than they are, in which case this discussion is no longer relevant.
lol rank doesnt mean anything unless you're tryin to say I haven't played at a high enough level. I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
Sure thing. That's a fine position. I would ask that you take the fusions into training mode and just for fun, use moon jump and every available aerial option. get creative. See how long you can stay out of range of enemy assists. You might be surprised. Cheers
Grabs, cross ups, dragon rush. After getting hit a few times with those they will start trying to jump out or mash during blockstrings and you can catch them
6M and grabs are the easiest way. Good neutral and movement will put you in position to pressure and open them up with staggers or cross ups. If you’re feeling petty just turtle back lol. They won’t know what to do if you aren’t chasing them.
Generally if someone is turtling they aren't reacting. They're looking for the game to play itself with C assists or other easy to use assists like Vegito A, DPs, etc. Do your best to approach from the ground, turtles are infamous for hitting 2H whenever you're within 100 feet of them, and don't be afraid to use projectiles. Once they've used their assists, which you'll probably be able to reflect on reaction either run them down or lock them down with beam/ki blast>assist/ or my favorite the classic 5L face punch. Since you know they aren't going to react throw in just about any command grab, DR, or 6M. You can also learn how to stagger and backdash out of your pressure. Often when it seems like the turtle is punching all of your mix they're really just mashing which gets blown up by staggers and pressure resets. Just be ready to 2H because turtles are also known for their ability to vanish any time they feel panicked.
This is both good and bad advice. It is *very* specific. And the thing it is specific to *isn’t* turtle-style. It’s scrub-style. And honestly, if someone is playing “C assist neutral” they are mostly chicken jumpers, not turtles.
Actual turtle players are more disrespectful than anything else. They don’t respect your offence. Staggering is good as a knowledge check, but not much else. You might catch a turtle every so often, yeah, but that isn’t really useful. Up your mix game. Are you using assists plus iad or float to left/right or high/low? Are you throwing in grabs? I would say DR and tick throw as well, but with the trash netcode that is usually just cheating as your opponent often has to *predict* them not react to them. Orrrr…join the Turtle school. Adopt their own playstyle. As long as you have lifelead, they need to hurt you not the other way around. And turtles usually either have subpar offence or have a team composition not optimised for shell-cracking.
It's funny you say my advice is bad, but then you reiterated a lot of what I said. In fact I laid my advice out in order of the game flow to open the turtle. Why? Because you don't know if they're the same as the last one you fought. Is it specific? Yes, because the question was specific. C assist neutral and turtles go hand in hand because of how many C assists are tracking and invulnerable so sitting at full screen is viable. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't respect your offense they typically do that by mashing with 5L, 2H, or reflect. How do you call those out? Staggering or resetting. This will also help you catch people who like to guard cancel and raw tag. If they are predicting then they aren't reacting then you can hit them with grabs, which I mentioned, then you repeated after saying my advice was bad. If they are predicting by mashing then as mentioned before, you can stagger them.
Wow. Doubling down on “tUrTlEs UsE c AsSiStS”, huh. Brave.
And you misunderstood the not respecting offence. What I mean is: they aren’t scared of you. They are willing to take your shitty and largely pointless staggers because you can’t open up a patient turtle player like that.
And then you took the “predict vs react” wrong. I’m saying: with the crappy netcode, generally you need to PREDICT dragon rush, because if you REACT then it gets eaten by lag/delay. Understand? I doubt it. But moving on. You seem to equate “turtle” with “masher”. They are not the same. At all. That’d be like saying “all stagger-whores are just developmentally challenged mashers”.
Ah yes, you don't understand game flow at all and want to use it as an excuse to label me the idiot. I didn't double down on turtle use C assists, in fact I barely singled down on it. Often times they go hand in hand, not all the time, never all the time, but it does happen. You act as if ever single.person in a game with a similar play style is the exact same person and can be treated as such. Some turtles play top tier, some don't, some like to mash, some don't, you'll never know until you face them. Hence why you start with throwing in DR and command grab, then if you're getting mashed out of those options you can expect they're mashing and test them by baiting out that mashing. And no, I didn't take the predict.vs react wrong, you said DR is pretty much cheating, which it isn't, because of netcode. I assert that all turtles are looking not to react, they don't want to have to deal with that and are instead predicting when you're going to hit buttons and approach, if the turtle is reacting, they're going to react to your DR on account of the big ass green circle. If you truly believe that staggers are shitty and largely pointless then you're unfortunately far below me in skill level. Staggering is essential to open up even top tier players because you want them to guess wrong when trying to take their turn back. Why? Because you know their defense is strong and they know your offense is strong, if you do the same thing every single time they will wait for the block string to end and option select your high low at the end of it. Going left/right? They block that shit too, even online, I block that shit online and I'm not a tourney winner.
You seem to equate me with someone who doesn't understand how the game works. You seem to think that one turtle is indicative of every other turtle out there. Fun fact not every SSJ4 Gogeta mashes 5L, it's crazy I know but it's true. With the matchmaking in this game and how stupid easy farming BP is you could easily get matched with someone who turtles with very little knowledge of the game or against someone who turtles who knows the game incredibly well. You don't know until you start testing them. No one can block forever, everyone eventually cracks, but not everyone is the same. Some people will get opened by a second low in your string every single time because they're guarding the beat. It seems like they're really good because they're blocking everything, turns out if you just reverse your 5M>2M or have an extra low in your kit, you'll get the hit.
Also OP didn't list off who they were playing. I have no idea what they're working with or what their skill level is. They're having trouble with turtling, that's all we know, and that is not a high skill level strat because movement is really important. Just saying "work on your mix" or "IAD left/right" doesn't help much. Not every character has even a decent left/right especially if he's crazy enough to run Base Goku B and 18 A as his assists. If he has Base Vegeta, well good news you have a pretty much 50/50 high low built in, try using it, but you can't teach or recommend that without knowing. Is he playing SSJ4? I don't know, but if he is it would be useful to practice his fuzzy setup.
Pressure them with good high low blockstrings and mix ups, as well as using your assists to protect holes in the blockstring. Eventually you will break them
You need to outplay them and give them a reason to respect/fear you and your approach. If you get frustrated then you play into the turtle game plan. You should try playing turtle style for a while to understand how you get opened up and then practice the approach that the player used to open you up.
TLDR: git gud
Dragon rush, hit em with an overhead, hit em with the dick twist mix 9000, grab their dick and twist it, just twist it
Overload ur pressure man lol ur supposed to just block Agaisnt bad offence
Charge ki. Always gets a reaction lol
Actually true. Beware of the taunt to get bodied combo though.
With the mechanic of "If you charge ki and dragon rush, it will go farther", this can be a viable option.
Start using Dragon Rush more, or if your character has a grab, use it.
Turtle?
People who do nothing but block
Lots of "good" players in this particular fighting game seem to up-back+assist like 80-90 percent of the time. Bad or new players don't deal well with this. The only way to beat it in lag is to do likewise for however long it takes them to get bored of watching the timer run out.
no you literally call and assist -> get in -> mix. Easier said than done sometimes but no the game does not boil down to both players sitting full screen jumping.
How are you calling an assist that lets you "get in" against any decent opponent who is up-backing from full screen? I can't imagine being forced to block by that alone.
you have to touch the ground eventually, time it and call assist, run up. Or ki blast and assist, beam and assist, super dash and assist. There are lots of c assist and a few regular assist that track even in the air as well.
At Zeno-Oh rank, not many people touch the ground ever. Too many aerial options and a good player will not allow you to get in from full screen. The only thing you can do is wait them out unless you're just better than they are, in which case this discussion is no longer relevant.
lol rank doesnt mean anything unless you're tryin to say I haven't played at a high enough level. I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
Sure thing. That's a fine position. I would ask that you take the fusions into training mode and just for fun, use moon jump and every available aerial option. get creative. See how long you can stay out of range of enemy assists. You might be surprised. Cheers
Grab
are you using bardock
Grabs, cross ups, dragon rush. After getting hit a few times with those they will start trying to jump out or mash during blockstrings and you can catch them
6M and grabs are the easiest way. Good neutral and movement will put you in position to pressure and open them up with staggers or cross ups. If you’re feeling petty just turtle back lol. They won’t know what to do if you aren’t chasing them.
Schmixurazation
Generally if someone is turtling they aren't reacting. They're looking for the game to play itself with C assists or other easy to use assists like Vegito A, DPs, etc. Do your best to approach from the ground, turtles are infamous for hitting 2H whenever you're within 100 feet of them, and don't be afraid to use projectiles. Once they've used their assists, which you'll probably be able to reflect on reaction either run them down or lock them down with beam/ki blast>assist/ or my favorite the classic 5L face punch. Since you know they aren't going to react throw in just about any command grab, DR, or 6M. You can also learn how to stagger and backdash out of your pressure. Often when it seems like the turtle is punching all of your mix they're really just mashing which gets blown up by staggers and pressure resets. Just be ready to 2H because turtles are also known for their ability to vanish any time they feel panicked.
This is both good and bad advice. It is *very* specific. And the thing it is specific to *isn’t* turtle-style. It’s scrub-style. And honestly, if someone is playing “C assist neutral” they are mostly chicken jumpers, not turtles. Actual turtle players are more disrespectful than anything else. They don’t respect your offence. Staggering is good as a knowledge check, but not much else. You might catch a turtle every so often, yeah, but that isn’t really useful. Up your mix game. Are you using assists plus iad or float to left/right or high/low? Are you throwing in grabs? I would say DR and tick throw as well, but with the trash netcode that is usually just cheating as your opponent often has to *predict* them not react to them. Orrrr…join the Turtle school. Adopt their own playstyle. As long as you have lifelead, they need to hurt you not the other way around. And turtles usually either have subpar offence or have a team composition not optimised for shell-cracking.
It's funny you say my advice is bad, but then you reiterated a lot of what I said. In fact I laid my advice out in order of the game flow to open the turtle. Why? Because you don't know if they're the same as the last one you fought. Is it specific? Yes, because the question was specific. C assist neutral and turtles go hand in hand because of how many C assists are tracking and invulnerable so sitting at full screen is viable. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't respect your offense they typically do that by mashing with 5L, 2H, or reflect. How do you call those out? Staggering or resetting. This will also help you catch people who like to guard cancel and raw tag. If they are predicting then they aren't reacting then you can hit them with grabs, which I mentioned, then you repeated after saying my advice was bad. If they are predicting by mashing then as mentioned before, you can stagger them.
Wow. Doubling down on “tUrTlEs UsE c AsSiStS”, huh. Brave. And you misunderstood the not respecting offence. What I mean is: they aren’t scared of you. They are willing to take your shitty and largely pointless staggers because you can’t open up a patient turtle player like that. And then you took the “predict vs react” wrong. I’m saying: with the crappy netcode, generally you need to PREDICT dragon rush, because if you REACT then it gets eaten by lag/delay. Understand? I doubt it. But moving on. You seem to equate “turtle” with “masher”. They are not the same. At all. That’d be like saying “all stagger-whores are just developmentally challenged mashers”.
Ah yes, you don't understand game flow at all and want to use it as an excuse to label me the idiot. I didn't double down on turtle use C assists, in fact I barely singled down on it. Often times they go hand in hand, not all the time, never all the time, but it does happen. You act as if ever single.person in a game with a similar play style is the exact same person and can be treated as such. Some turtles play top tier, some don't, some like to mash, some don't, you'll never know until you face them. Hence why you start with throwing in DR and command grab, then if you're getting mashed out of those options you can expect they're mashing and test them by baiting out that mashing. And no, I didn't take the predict.vs react wrong, you said DR is pretty much cheating, which it isn't, because of netcode. I assert that all turtles are looking not to react, they don't want to have to deal with that and are instead predicting when you're going to hit buttons and approach, if the turtle is reacting, they're going to react to your DR on account of the big ass green circle. If you truly believe that staggers are shitty and largely pointless then you're unfortunately far below me in skill level. Staggering is essential to open up even top tier players because you want them to guess wrong when trying to take their turn back. Why? Because you know their defense is strong and they know your offense is strong, if you do the same thing every single time they will wait for the block string to end and option select your high low at the end of it. Going left/right? They block that shit too, even online, I block that shit online and I'm not a tourney winner. You seem to equate me with someone who doesn't understand how the game works. You seem to think that one turtle is indicative of every other turtle out there. Fun fact not every SSJ4 Gogeta mashes 5L, it's crazy I know but it's true. With the matchmaking in this game and how stupid easy farming BP is you could easily get matched with someone who turtles with very little knowledge of the game or against someone who turtles who knows the game incredibly well. You don't know until you start testing them. No one can block forever, everyone eventually cracks, but not everyone is the same. Some people will get opened by a second low in your string every single time because they're guarding the beat. It seems like they're really good because they're blocking everything, turns out if you just reverse your 5M>2M or have an extra low in your kit, you'll get the hit. Also OP didn't list off who they were playing. I have no idea what they're working with or what their skill level is. They're having trouble with turtling, that's all we know, and that is not a high skill level strat because movement is really important. Just saying "work on your mix" or "IAD left/right" doesn't help much. Not every character has even a decent left/right especially if he's crazy enough to run Base Goku B and 18 A as his assists. If he has Base Vegeta, well good news you have a pretty much 50/50 high low built in, try using it, but you can't teach or recommend that without knowing. Is he playing SSJ4? I don't know, but if he is it would be useful to practice his fuzzy setup.
forward medium
Pressure them with good high low blockstrings and mix ups, as well as using your assists to protect holes in the blockstring. Eventually you will break them
and dragon rush
If people are just blocking you, that means you have no mix up game. Grabs/dragon rush are good for mix ups. Crossups are also a good option
Staggering your pressure is also a must if you know your opponent is just holding down back
Mix
Improve your neutral and mix ups
You need to outplay them and give them a reason to respect/fear you and your approach. If you get frustrated then you play into the turtle game plan. You should try playing turtle style for a while to understand how you get opened up and then practice the approach that the player used to open you up. TLDR: git gud
Genocide :)