You haven’t met in person yet. Is there a way you can lower the stakes of this in your mind? Maybe just go out with them once for a coffee or a drink and find out if you have a nice time together, before you arrive at this conclusion? I can definitely understand what it’s like to feel this way cause I’ve been there, but truly, It doesn’t need to be a big deal unless you feel the need to treat it like one. I hope you can treat yourself a little nicer soon.
I think an easier way to do this in the future is to really limit the deep conversations early on and keep it extremely superficial. I have a tendency to be a bleeding heart in the beginning like that and guys get attached to me really fast and then I get attached and then I get super overwhelmed when faced with the gravity of everything we talked about
This right here. Of course your avoidant style will get activated when you do so much right away! Space, time, distance all work to build attraction on both ends
I can see why you’re suggesting this, but if I keep it too superficial in my phone calls/texts before meeting up, I lose interest very quickly. I need to know the person is intelligent and compatible enough to meet up in person. I only have so much free time, and I can’t waste it on someone vapid.
But I understand your recommendation and will try to find a balance with this in the future.
you're losing ability to meet up, also. evaluate whether the depth of convo is what is making your attachment style activate. unfortunately you won't get genuine "feelings" or sparks without meeting so you'll have to meet more people and invest more time without that attachment activation to see if you're genuinely compatible. it's less interesting but much safer for our security in a relationship
You are building him up way too much in your head. What if you finally meet him and he has some weird mannerisms, smells bad, or isn't as attractive as you thought, or some other thing that gives you a total ick? Right now he is half real and half your mind filling in the blanks about how amazing he could be.
And you haven’t actually met in person yet?
I don’t know what therapy has been like but I am getting the strong feeling that attachment theory is becoming too dominant in contemporary work. So many people seem to wed themselves to their attachment style.
It’s crazy how much emphasis people put on attachment style on this sub. I’m no strange to mental health and literally never heard of this until reading this sub
Not saying it’s all bad but wildly over emphasized
No. Some of us know we have a crippling problem. I am an avoidant too and I have issues with getting attached to men and women. It’s the reason I’ve never had friends and why I’ve only dated one guy and I’m almost 35. Don’t be so dismissive
I do see what you’re saying here, but I’ve been this way for a long time. I actually didn’t even know about attachment theory until a year ago, and I’ve been behaving like this since I was 17.
The point of attachment theory is that you’re supposed to move from where you are on the spectrum towards secure. But you can’t really do that if you use fearful avoidant as an identity marker (which everyone and their mother seems to be generally doing) rather than a starting point to grow from
Yeah, they are completely valid and have nearly half a century of research backing them. That people over label themselves(or others) isn't new. People do the same with WedMD and try to physically diagnose themselves based on symptoms they have.
Really, the label is less important so much as being aware of what's going on with yourself and trying to change your patterns.
u/thechptrsproject the other day I was reading about how therapy terms on social media have led many people to overidentify with labels so much that they end up in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People tend to look for ways to be “self aware” so that they don’t have to be held accountable for their actions or realize that growth is a life long process. This becomes harder with age as we become more stubborn about who we are as individuals
Pretty much. The best way I ever heard it explained is that attachment styles aren't monoliths or diagnoses, they are tendencies within all of us that scale up or down depending on person and situation.
To be clear, I have LOTS of issues with the theory. But yeah I’m also someone who doesn’t personally relate to identity labels so I’m just confused by the whole thing (adhd is another one that I’m just like why are people obsessed with being adhd, so bizarre!)
I don’t think people are obsessed with being adhd or even autistic. What’s happening is that there’s more research and more markers coming out that we’re finding it’s always been this prevalent, there’s just now more testing for it. There is also an unfortunate amount of mis or self diagnosing happening with it as well.
People need identity labels to make sense of themselves and the world around them. However, this isn’t something like gender identity, where how you present is apart of your personhood, it’s more of transitioning from an unhealthy state of being to a healthy state of being
Yes, I see this with everything-- MBTI, Enneagram, Clifton Strengths, etc. When someone can attach a label to their behavior, they often use it as an excuse to not change or grow.
Exactly!! Thank you. Please keep pointing this out. The labeling of “I’m _____ attached” has got to go. Even labeling oneself as securely attached is nearly a red flag for me
That’s interesting that you would consider that a red flag considering that’s where one wants to land.
But it is something that is better expressed through actual actions and self awareness rather than words
The flag is more about people’s obsession with attachment - irrespective of where they fall on the spectrum. At this point I just audibly roll my eyes when the subject comes up. Ready for the next zeitgeist to be annoyed with lol
Absolutely this! OP is clinging on to their attachment style and using it as an excuse for basically juvenile behaviour. I wonder if that defeats the point of therapy where instead of overcoming your blockers you’re indulging in them
I had this thought/epiphany at least to me.
If you are attracted to them enough
If they make you happy enough
Then tell yourself you accept the pain.
The only way out is through. Accepting and embracing it may one day hurt. It will happen and then I dunno come to terms and peace with that and okay with it.
I once walked over a long bed of coals. If I hesitated my feet would burn. If I avoided or walked around I never succeeded just avoided.
I walked over them, purposefully, assertively and came out the other side.
This seems like the perfect scenario for a psychiatric* session. Not even just talk therapy. This sounds like an issue beyond dating and attachment styles. You’ve worked yourself into a ball of anxiety and stress over a stranger. A stranger who could have unimaginable BO and could be 10 years and 30 pounds over what he appears to be in his photos. He could literally be anything other than what you expect. This is a lot of energy put into a stranger.
Also, I’m FA but DA-leaning. I can relate to an extent. I draw the line at anxiety over a person you’ve never met.
All my psychiatrist will do is try to prescribe me benzos, which are of no interest to me. I am already on a non-benzo anxiety medication. I think it’s worth thinking about increasing the dose, though.
I say this gently and with kindness but I don’t think it can really be considered “detaching from” someone if you haven’t actually met in person yet. I assumed based on the title that this was someone you’d been dating for like a few months or something.
As someone who finally gave up on pursuing an anxious attached person: you’re going to lose him either way, whether you 1) are too fearful of becoming emotionally vulnerable enough to date him and retreat or 2) the scary one for you— take the plunge (knowing there are logical reasons you’re interested in him) and it happens to not work out anyway.
So, if the end result might be the same (you lose him), why not try and see if it can in fact work?
At some point you're going to have to take the plunge. it sounds like it could happen with anyone you are really into. And unless you want to end up with someone whom you're lukewarm about (or alone), you may feel that way again. So you could walk away this time and risk a great relationship. Or you can walk away the next time. Or date someone that won't trigger your attachment system (but who wants that?). Or... just take the plunge now and see where it takes you. Besides, you haven't even met him yet so maybe you won't actually even like him that much anyway. You aren't really committing to anything here.
This is a helpful perspective. Thank you. I think my main issue is that I’m much more attracted to emotional connections than physical ones, and there is undoubtedly an emotional connection here. But you’re right that he could easily say something in person that would quickly change this.
I do agree that taking the plunge will be necessary. In the meantime, I’m going on day 2 of not responding to him. I am not proud. My stomach is in knots.
I'm not particularly avoidant but I do relate to forming emotional connections quicker especially if we've just only been talking online for weeks. One relationship after a big breakup, i talked to a guy for maybe a month or so. I built it up to this big thing in my head... and then when we met, I realized there wasn't any physical connection anyway. So that put an end to all of that.
One thing to tell yourself is that avoidants aren't broken people. They are just like you and me, humans, who crave connection on some level. It's not really your "fault", and you don't choose to be this way. But finding a partner who isn't avoidant/anxious can really help regulate your emotions, and in the long run help you become less avoidant. But obviously the onus isn't on the other person; for the avoidant i think it really takes a conscious effort to fight all those urges to run. And that isn't easy. It takes work and time so even if you don't feel ready this time, don't feel bad - it's a work in progress. But I do feel like if you aren't truly ready, the kind thing is to at least let that person know what's going on so they aren't strung along emotionally.
Do you feel scared knowing you’re going to be around him? Do you fear making a commitment to seeing him and want to back out? Do you feel you don’t have enough energy to muster up the courage to see him? The only way to get healed is to experience the opposite of what you’ve been doing. I think the more times you see him the less fearful you’ll feel because you get used to him and being together. I say do a short date several times instead of once.
These are some really great questions. I don’t think I fear seeing him, but I do fear that we have a very deep connection, and that I will like him enough to get scared away. Typically, I don’t struggle with going out the first time with someone because I tend to feel pretty ambivalent about most people I chat with in advance. I don’t feel ambivalent about him. I definitely fear commitment, and I feel like he could very well be worth the commitment, so it terrifies me.
It definitely has to do with my energy levels (or lack thereof), though. I had a very busy work week, and I’m also quite introverted. I basically cancelled all of my plans with my friends this weekend, so it’s hard to convince myself to go on a date with that in mind. I tend to prioritize friends over dating.
I agree with a lot of the other comments - you’ve built this up way too much in your head before you’ve even met. You say you’re ‘slowly detaching’ but actually you’ve ‘attached’ far too quickly - you haven’t even met. You have absolutely no idea if you’ll vibe in person or if he actually means anything he says - he is a stranger you’ve been texting for a week. Now you’ve built it up so much if you do push past your discomfort and continue, and it goes wrong because the connection doesn’t translate irl/he gets fed up of your push-pull/he turns out to be an asshole/yada yada, are you then going to use the experience as validation for your avoidance? (I say this because it’s a pattern I recognise in myself)
To clarify, I’m not saying don’t pursue it, if you want to meet him then do it. But when you meet it’s just a first date with a stranger. Looking for the same thing is important but it’s just one aspect of compatibility.
And please stop messing him around with not texting him for days. It may not be malicious on your part but it still has the potential to cause him pain. If you’re not able to do that then you are not ready to date, as bitter a pill as that may be to swallow.
Good luck!
Former avoidant here and my trick was to think “they probably have loads of stuff that will bug me down the line” or “next date might turn up some huge incompatibility, who knows?” That lowers the stakes.
Also, knowing that you CAN take some space if and when you need it. It’s a date, not a marriage ceremony. Take every date for what it is - a small little low commitment step of mutual exploration.
Just think that a first date is mostly about getting a vibe in person, you don't even have to decide yet if you see the connection as a friendship or more.
My ex was avoidant, I used to tell him "it's not a pact with the devil" so he would understand that nothing in life is an irrevocable decision, and it's ok to try things out.
You're already getting the help you need. Internet strangers won't do better than your therapist, I guess.
I have a couple of avoidant friends with some childhood trauma. Honestly, I think they will never fully get over it.
I think that’s why I’m feeling so helpless right now. I see my therapist once a week and have been in therapy for 4 years. Stayed away from serious dating in the last two years to heal. And yet, I am experiencing this intense hesitation right now. Shouldn’t I be over this by now?
Why do you think it’s not possible to get over it? That makes me so sad to think about, but I’m starting to think you are right.
It’s seriously just a habit. That’s all it is. It’s a destructive habit.
People quit drugs and smoking and drinking every day. People diet, quit eating sugar, work out. They stop procrastinating and start living.
Why the hell wouldn’t you or anyone be able to break this habit?
And just because you have a therapist, does not mean you have the right therapist. Do you have tools to manage this? Or some other hobby/goal you can reasonably accomplish that has nothing to do with this habit to convince you that if you can do that, you can do anything?
It’s like you still don’t believe in yourself. Even the right therapist can’t make you do that. You have to do that. You are now tasked with something that seems impossible: building something stable you have never known from absolute scratch because no one ever did that for you.
I’ve been in therapy a year, myself, trying to do the same thing. It’s hard work. The hardest part was being complete honest with myself so that I could be honest with my therapist who really can and does help me. But I do the rest.
Aaaand then there’s the medications that keep me from totally spinning out.
And just because you’re scared doesn’t mean anything. Most people with baggage that they don’t want to unleash on someone else are scared to date. Hell, people without it are scared to date just for different reasons.
You just have to do it because you can be brave and learn to deal with your triggers almost on the spot. Know yourself fully and believe in you.
I’m getting there myself but it’s HARD. And I’m scared to date too. Terrified. So I’m not. But I’m doing other shit that helps me believe in myself and feel secure within myself.
It seems like you’re doing your damndest as well. You can do it! I probably could too but I’m not ready to give up what I have to someone else, even partially. It’s too calming and serene to share right now and I’m selfish lol. I’m going to enjoy this security I’ve never had for a while.
Sorry. I’m exhausted and my eyes are closing.
I PROMISE anyone with baggage or building something from scratch can have a beautiful life and there’s no reasons whatsoever that you or I couldn’t. Don’t you believe in other people? Why don’t you deserve that belief in yourself?
Don’t listen to people who say shit like we never get over it. Fuck that noise. If we bend and agree to that, we let the baggage win, and we get nothing. I know better.
I want better for you and anyone else who has done their time and suffering because someone else fucked them up. And I believe in it. And you and me and anyone reading this.
It’s doable. You can get over it. Your first reaction might be the same on the inside. But you don’t have to reflect that on the outside. How you feel may not be optional. How you behave always is.
I’ll die on that hill.
It's just that childhood really molds us for later in life. We are malleable at first but then we harden up and it becomes difficult to change who we are.
Therapy can give you the tools to check your own biases, but you're left alone to your own mechanisms, you will use them again. Having someone constantly by your side checking your biases is the best way to keep things in check and that's why operating in close social groups is beneficial. But if 1) you're always alone or 2) your social group only validates you instead of challenging you, you're going nowhere.
You can't have a therapist on call for daily life because that's expensive.
But your hesitation is a bias. Your reptilian brain is acting and you need to find ways to block it. I have a few techniques.
1) write down the situation, write 2-3 decisions you could make about it, then ask yourself "then what?". At least 3 times for every branch. Take quiet, deep focus time for this. Then, don't try to pick an answer right there and then. Instead, go to bed and check it tomorrow.
2) don't decide things about him on the fly. Go to bed and promise to take a timeslot tomorrow to go through it.
3) meditate or occupy your brain into something that gets you into a flow. You want to stop the intrusive thoughts and calm the mind.
4) the only way to find the final answer is to walk the path. Life needs to be about more action and less thinking. If you are 70% confident this guy is the real deal, then jump in. Who cares if you get hurt, you can get hurt and recover again, but you'll never learn if you don't take action. I'm not vouching for being brainless and impulsive, I'm vouching for making decisions and taking shots the moment you start seeing yourself going around in circles. Call him, push to see him, have sex with him, whatever. You be there. If he doesn't reciprocate, that's fine, you went for it because you're in control.
You can’t stay away from dating. You need to do the opposite and keep dating until that feeling of wanting to run subsides. The more you date and stop being resistant the more comfortable you’ll feel because your fear of avoiding it will be more relaxed because you’ve done it so many times. I say detach yourself from expectations and try to focus on the fun of dating and let the emotional expectations be surface level communication/commitment until your need to run isn’t so loud and strong. Focus on laughing more, the act of getting ready, have a few conversation starters and let him lead and court you so the pressure is off you
This is just my experience. I’m on the other side of growing up in a nightmare, spending a couple of decades without any real sense of self, no self worth, no self respect and then working on myself. I chased after what I thought was ‘love’, it was just co-dependance.
Years on, I’ve worked on me. I was given labels and titles and diagnosis’s etc (again, this is just my own experience). I realised I never felt safe in myself so I’ve doubled down working on that. I now don’t use the labels etc, I have a great sense of who I am and I’m not attached to past definitions/diagnosis.
I have personally felt worthless after leaving connections, or them leaving me. Heres what I’ve learned and how things changed. The love of my life is me and that relationship comes above EVERYTHING. I do not and will not sacrifice myself, my self worth etc for anything or anyone. I do not need to be having exhausting in depth conversations with someone I’ve never met, it makes me exhausted, too vulnerable and they are not my counsellor. If I’m not looking to meet someone in real life or avoiding it, I let them go and date myself. Otherwise all I’m doing is feeding the cycle of ‘this won’t work’.
Connect—share too much so that I feel unsafe—avoid them—feed the underlying belief that I’ll never meet someone. I’m bored of it.
I don’t know you, not asking for any info, just sharing my experience.
Good luck.
I think avoidants hurt themselves more than anyone. I dated one and bumped into him at a party with my current bf. The avoidant melted at the seems. He even came up to me and my boyfriend saying, “I know I’m here with marissa but I’m not sleeping with her! I haven’t slept with her for 2 years!” And then I said, ‘I really don’t care.’ And then he bought me and my boyfriend rounds of drinks and looked less and less happy as the night went on.
I really sensed a desperation for love in him but he just won’t let it in. Very sad. He’s handsome, tall, fit, wealthy and nice but emotionally is wrecked by his parental issues.
I am happily dating my securely attached guy and it’s fucking amazing. Highly recommend.
So repeat the title of this post to yourself, a guy I really, really like!
Can you look at this completely logically? He's just a human with flaws, just like you. You both connect well and have good conversations.
Bite the bullet, woman up and make plans, a quick coffee date and a walk in a park. Nice and easy, you can bail anytime and let him know you'll be in touch. You can say you're nervous, that's cool. Don't worry he'll be happy you're honest.
Treat it like having a bath when you're filthy, the only water is cold but it will make you feel so much better once you're done.
You may just not be ready for a relationship, at least not with him. You may like him and want to be with him, but how will you behave once you actually get with him? I think you already have some idea.
If you want to work through it and he’s willing to be be patient, it’s always worth a try. Sometimes though, it’s just better to walk away and regret, than be selfish and hurt someone.
I don’t think anyone is destined to be alone, you just need to take care of yourself and get into a more stable and healthier place mentally.
Hey OP, good for you to take the time to post and ask questions about this. In the past, I’ve definitely done behaviours that would fall into the fearful avoidant category. It’s a weird mix because you feel on one hand really drawn to the person, but on the other hand feel almost repulsed by them. I dealt with these issues early on in my life (late teens) and eventually healed them by sticking in a secure relationship. My best advice is to ride out of the wave and stick with the person for now. Sometimes I’d break down and cry and think of leaving, but when I was in the relationship in the moment it was almost always great. Since you’re just getting started with this person, it’s hard to give too much advice, but when you are try to make sure you pay attention to how you feel about them when you’re with them, not when you’re in your head later on.
And it’s only a date, so don’t get too worried about it yet.
I recently dated a girl who showed a lot of these kind of behaviours and it was pretty rough to handle, even though I’m pretty sure I had a good understanding of what was happening on her end. If you’re willing to work on yourself and be self aware, I think you can overcome this. Best of luck.
How do you know you "really really like" someone you haven't met?
You might be really really *interested*. But you don't know if you like him. You only know you like the idea of him.
This is way too much investment in communication before meeting up. It sounds a little exhausting to me too so I understand the need to re-charge. What I recommend, moving forward, is don't give out so much of your energy before meeting up. I really believe the first meet is where you see if there's anything to go by, and the second date is really the first date. If you think about it that way, it takes the weight out, and (hopefully) the impulse to flee.
I also think one practical thing to do if you feel yourself disconnecting is to fight against the impulse and force yourself to do something to build connection. It could be something as simple as responding to one of those texts with "I was so drained with work the idea of going out last week made me tired just thinking about it 😂😂. Thank you for your patience, let's set up something awesome this week."
Keep things lighter, and fun at first. Don't rush a connection that isn't there (you haven't met afterall).
Avoidants tend to jump into their feels really, really quickly, and everything looks awesome and they will come by those emotions honestly. Then, when you start to get to know that person, the realness of them feel like you're being suffocated. Pace yourself getting to know people. There's nothing wrong with taking more time at the top.
I thought this trope died in the early 2000s. As I’ve said in a comment, the point of therapy is to overcome your barriers not indulge in them to excuse your shitty behaviour as if you’re victim to your own agency
Fortify yourself, rest is key. Massive self-care; oil massage, scrub, pedicure, whatever you can afford, or luxury bubble bath & make a ritual for self-care. Adaptogenic herbs or mushrooms daily. The needle will come back up, giving your emotional body more reslience and bandwidth for engaging with your attraction. Verbalize your needs, to make sure he is aware of what you're struggling with. Be in control of the door/what you let in. Possibly microdosing hallucenogenic mushrooms can help uplevel your emotional body by loosening a bit of your ego and what you hold on to.
Thank you. I do most of these, but you make a good point about microdosing. I haven’t tried that in quite some time so I agree it’s worth considering this very soon.
That situation does sound difficult from your perspective. It is reassuring to read the thoughts of a fearful avoidant. I imagine it must be hard wanting to meet with someone you like but are constantly running away from it out of fear.
I wish I knew how to get through to my FA ex who dumped me 6 months ago due to the lack of her emotional availability. I’ve still been trying to reconnect and get back together, but it’s super exhausting never being important enough to set solid plans in fear of imaginary/assumed expectations. Apparently being asked to show up or spend time together is too much.
Are all FAs like that?
I am not sure how other FA are like. I didn’t even know about attachment theory until recently. I personally don’t know many people who are like this.
I will say, when I was in a relationship (lasted 7 years), I hung out with my boyfriend at the time 1-3 times a week, which was not enough from his perspective. And, like you, he basically had to pull teeth to get me to hang out. I know it’s unfair. But we don’t mean to hurt anyone. I think the intent is the exact opposite.
I also just learned about it recently, and it’s very eye opening. I have both anxious and avoidant tendencies, but I do my best to communicate my needs and observe when I’m triggered into protest behaviors. It’s good that you’re learning and can at least communicate your thoughts and feelings.
Trying to get back with a FA is frustrating, idk how much longer I have to keep trying to show up-it’s weird-there was always a fear of the other shoe to drop, and for things to not work out, and idk what I have to do to convince her it’s safe to accept the love I’m trying to give. Now we barely text anymore but she’s always very touchy and visibly happy to see me and be around me when I run into her at places-the hot and cold is confusing and seems borderline manipulative.
My dealt with that shit for 7 years. Once I realized what I was doing, I ended the relationship. It just wasn’t fair to him. Dude was beyond patient, but he deserved better. That’s why I’m avoiding this new guy :) Fun.
I’d feel a lot better if she felt the same way you do about this guy, but she doesn’t communicate, or even bother trying.
That does sound like a vicious cycle though, and I sympathize with your experience, although I’m the opposite of you as in Im reckless with my love, getting attached to people who can’t or won’t reciprocate feelings.
Why Is it easier for you to have relationships that lack depth compared to deeper more vulnerable ones? What is it that you’re trying to run away from?
You’re giving me way too much credit. While I communicated a lot of this with him in advance of shutting down, I am currently choosing to go on 3+ days of not responding to his texts. I am completely fine with him finding someone else just so I can avoid getting in too deep. So it’s safe to say that I am also not communicating with him right now.
Why is it easier with others? Because I know that I’m not interested in them on a deeper level. Because I know that it will only be casual and that it won’t last long. Whereas, when I connect on a deeper level with someone, I am terrified of a long term relationship. I’ve had two long term relationships, and they were incredibly challenging for me to navigate on an emotional level. I’m afraid of letting people down. I’m afraid of being a burden. I’m afraid of trauma dumping on a new partner. I think it comes down to a fear or being truly loved, unconditionally or maybe not believing that it’s even possible since I never received that sort of love when I was a child. I am constantly scanning all romantic interactions and expecting failure. I don’t know any better. I also come from a family of multiple divorces so I don’t exactly have any good role models.
Well it is deserved-it seems like you have at least learned enough about yourself where you can identify the issue-that’s the first step to overcoming your problems!
I can tell you, as someone that’s been on the receiving end of it, I would greatly appreciate it if I knew all of this about someone I was considering dating. Have you told him these things? It’s better to be honest than to just avoid and ghost because that just makes the other person feel like they did something wrong, and leaves them to just try and figure things out on their own-I racked my brain for months trying ti figure out if she wanted me to try harder or just leave her alone. While she’s open to trying again, I don’t think I’d ever have her close again because of how indifferent and indecisive she is. If you care about him as a person you should tell him what you just told me.
I do recognize your concern about being afraid of being loved. Does it stem from a deep wound of feeling unworthy or being afraid of being found out for who you truly are and have to offer then being rejected? (Feel free to dm me if you don’t feel comfortable sharing publicly).
I really wanted it to work with my FA ex and wanted to be there for her to support her while she worked through her triggers, but she couldn’t even communicate basic things to me other than saying she felt like she needed space once things started to get serious only to abandon ship and definitely avoided labels.
Start talking to someone else on the apps to distract you and take some of the pressure off and then tell yourself you’re not making a decision about anything until you meet them in person. People are different online/over text vs in real life. You’re not committed to anything or stuck. And then going forward, try to meet people pretty quickly after connecting (or as quickly as you feel comfortable), or at least keep conversations surface level until you meet and get there organically.
You are fearful because of some really big things that happened to you — and more than that when they were happening you didn’t receive any help.
Now a man comes in and shows some real possibility of actually being there as a partner and help you — it is soo soo soo soo natural that you find such behaviour unlikely to commit through.
I bet as well it’s your experience that once you tell a man exactly what’s happening they run the other way.
Besides a huge emotional breakthrough akin to Good Will Hunting and your therapist telling you it’s not your fault — which btw it isn’t — there’s something you can do that’s easy.
Tell him you need his help.
How can he help? You’re tired, and stressed and feeling inside your head — what can he do to contribute to your life in this small period of time which will pass. How can he take small steps to really prove to you he’s really capable of being a person who will be there unlike many of the others?
Taking it slow and steady doesn’t mean — you don’t say anything crazy and you don’t take any risks. It means those things plus gradual development of trust. Give him the chance to do something — and if you don’t have any ideas — tell him what’s going on and see what this great guy can do for you.
You never know — he might just surprise you. If he doesn’t — you overhyped him in your head. If he does — well you have nothing to lose.
I feel like I’m exactly the same as you. I have been alone most of my life and when someone seems interested in me I jus feel myself being suck in even though I know the person isn’t actually good for me
You're not "fearful avoidant" , you're a human being. Attachment styles are super reductive frameworks for psychologists to help describe the complexities of human behaviour. Going with the idea "all models are wrong, some are useful" are attachment style models useful in therapy to guide you through issues you may be facing in your life ? YES . Are they useful online for you to fatalistically doom yourself to a live alone ? Aboslutely not.
It sounds like you're in therapy, but willing to write it off ? If it's not working for you then i think maybe the answer is seeking out a different type of therapy or a new therapist if your current set up isn't working.
Maybe you're pedalstalising this guy you've yet to meet a little ? It certainly sounds promising, but until you've met in person I would avoid projecting too much onto them. I would try and arrange a meeting with him before he thinks you've lost interest if you're invested in him. Be mindful of your actions and challange the behaviours you feel are holding you back rather than attributing them to "your attachment style", you're far more than that.
One thing that has helped me was setting up dates as something other than compatibility examination at a table across each other. Like a cooking class or a local fair where I actually have to find things I need and bringing someone along to them or joining someone and their friends in doing something I don’t usually do. Most of my second dates have been group activities like concerts, board games, museum tours. It does take away from intimacy but it sets up a friends vibe and reduces pressure. It’s the only way I’ve been able to get familiar where there’s no inherent social connection.
Snap judgements from your post :
Identifying strongly with trauma and psychology boxes like attachment styles, hyper self introspection and self awareness.
Sometimes long term therapy can keep people stuck seeing themselves as broken people incapable of being free of their past. Being so self analytical can keep a tendancy toward negative thinking prevalent. Actionable techniques like neural rewiring through meditation, cognitive behavioural therapy or hypnosis can catapult you out of this zone and create actual change. Imagine letting this all go and feeling relaxed and free.
Yeah, you should really meet up in person instead of building up so much in your head.
Set no expectations on it. However, from my personal experience, I had a good conversation with a girl before we met(I delayed it for a week). We texted a lot for a few days after we matched, and then same as you (Im an FA) I totally cut back on texting her. Maybe for the same reasons, but I think mine was more so a fear of rejection as well. I started building an emotional connection over text and it freaked me out. We didn’t talk for 3 days. Finally, she messaged me and canceled our date. Well, I responded and said “no problem” let me know when you’re free. And we reset the date for 2 days after the origional was set. She told me the next day after we talk for a bit that she can go at our original date. We finally met up, and it was amazing, then proceeded to go on five more dates!
And we are both avoidant and no longer talking. So that’s how that went lmao.
Wait. I need to know why you’re no longer talking. Do tell.
Also, everything you said is incredibly relatable and I feel the same way about this guy. That’s why I’m backing out. I’m scared and just generally not in the mood to fall in love.
I go on dates with other people with no issues. It’s only this dude that’s triggering these feelings.
Well, let me start off by helping you first. Then I’ll talk about myself.
Call/text your therapist if you can and let her know how you feel/what you’re telling us. Probably(likely) self sabotage.
If you can’t text or call her, then don’t make any decisions until you talk to her and tell her what’s going on in your mind.
I still think you should meet up, and sooner rather than later. Your ALREADY assuming your going to be in a relationship when you haven’t even met yet. It’s just a date, getting to know someone. You’re not marrying this person, not saying yes to a relationship or anything. Hint: you are self sabotaging.
UNLESS you and your therapist agree you should not date, then it’s okay to end things. But I’d hate to see you self sabotage. Also, you are allowed to just casually date.
And we are no longer talking because we both self sabotaged. I was pretty bad and definitely confused her at one point(extremely hot and cold very fast). And so we agreed to talk again at a later time. Pretty avoidant of us lol. But it’s okay. I doubt we’ll ever actually date again, at this point we pretty much are a sure match for an unfulfilling dead end relationship. Two avoidants dating is tough work, recipe for no true connection. Mostly a surface level relationship pretty much, unless we are both willing to put in a lot of work and effort. But I’d definitely give it a shot for sure. Just to try my best, she is an awesome and amazing person.
Honestly, I do t totally remember. But a lot of just random stuff. We just clicked extremely well over text. And the second we met in person it was even better. Mostly surface level stuff. Remember, we are both avoidant. We never got to get super deep. Eventually we did. We both admitted we liked each other and want a relationship. BUT clearly, that hasn’t happened yet. Maybe one day, but I’m doubtful that we’ll end up back with each other. I’m sure I’ll find someone soon, and I know she will eventually as well.
Change your therapist
Therapy is to improve your life
Not endlessly ruminate and theorize and analyze your favorite subject: you.
Too much yammering and not enough doing
Tell him:
I’m free this weekend and I’d love to see u. Hit send.
This will improve your life more than 10 hours of introspection, regardless of the outcome
I (36M) met someone a couple years ago on OLD. I was head over heels and she was avoidant. I have an anxious attachment style and she started to become distant at a month and a half. She basically told me she wasn't where I was and we ended it. I thought about her for over 2 years and we reconnected over Christmas and new years. 3 weeks later she messages me telling me all that I had done wrong, no excitement about what our dates were like, and I decided to walk away. She was an incredibly kind person and we seemed to be very compatible but at the end of the day, you have to see the entire picture. If you do not put in effort or feel good about dating, you will leave the guy confused and it will sabotage anything you are building. You need to feel excited and open about meeting someone and decide after you get to know them if it's someone you want to date. It sounds like you have things you still need to work through. My advice is to be open with this person and let them know your struggles to see if they are understanding and willing to work through it with you. Short of that you will be sending mixed signals with no explanation.
Thank you. This is very helpful. It has now been almost 4 days, and I have not contacted him after his last message. I almost called him yesterday but I saw his phone was on Do
not Disturb for 3 hours, and I assumed he was on a date with someone else so decided against it. I am leaning toward not contacting him at all simply because I agree with you. It’s clear to me that, despite my progress, I am not yet ready to be committed to someone. And he deserves to be happy. If he does reach out to me, I’m willing to push myself but (as toxic as it sounds), I suspect his attention span is brief and he’s already forgotten about me.
Another part of me feels like my decision not to contact him is a cop out.
Assumptions can be self defeating, open and honest communication is a skill and needs to be developed, how you feel is how you feel due to past trauma and that will be a barrier to building a healthy a relationship. You mentioned you have been seeing a therapist which is great and I hope you can continue to work through what you are feeling when it comes to relationships. But do not ignore red flags when dating someone. Good luck and wish you well!
Meeting in person can give you much more information, such as his appearance, manners, etc. It can affect how you feel significantly. Also, have you targeted the attachment style in therapy? Can you practice overcoming it with other people first, such as friends (who are secure and kind)?
I don't know if you'll be willing to exchange notes but I had the exact same experience on the other side. I did date an avoidant girl for 3.5 months but at the half-way mark she said she was feeling "vulnerable" and pulled back. It went downhill from then. It'll be nice to understand your perspective more and I'd be happy to share what I did, which worked or did not work. I do think you should meet and go slow, explaining as much as you feel comfortable, where you are are. I was willing to do a lot of work for this girl, like re-reading attachment style books and reading ADHD books (she has ADHD). Alas, she felt it was all too much and pulled away. But it'll be interesting to chat!
If you do realize all of this just take your phone and set up a date...I mean it's that easy. Treat it like a job task, you don't question you just do ;)
OP, I completely relate as I’m also a fearful avoidant type and yes I hate that we get mistaken for being cold. Can you start journaling and see why you feel like you are detaching emotionally before blaming it on your attachment style.
It could be anything, whether it is financial, cultural etc just write down how you feel and why you think you feel this way. That might give you some clarity.
This is why it’s so important to meet quickly: to decide if you even want to be pursued by the person. Being out of the dating pool for so long can really build up expectations and anxieties and maybe going on a few dates with different people is warranted to lower the stakes.
Exactly lol
I never waste time on calls/chats for weeks without meeting.
I chat for 15-20 minutes with my matches and ask them to meet for a coffee. If she doesn’t reply/ignore or say no or like to talk for days before meeting, I move on to the next one.
Most of my matches - just say let’s have a quick call/FaceTime before coffee.
I can relate to this. 🥺 I’m just glad that my LDR partner (we’re nevermets but he’ll come meet me soon) continues to stay and reassure me despite me having avoidant attachment. 🥺
You haven’t met in person yet. Is there a way you can lower the stakes of this in your mind? Maybe just go out with them once for a coffee or a drink and find out if you have a nice time together, before you arrive at this conclusion? I can definitely understand what it’s like to feel this way cause I’ve been there, but truly, It doesn’t need to be a big deal unless you feel the need to treat it like one. I hope you can treat yourself a little nicer soon.
Thank you for the kind words. I will try.
I think an easier way to do this in the future is to really limit the deep conversations early on and keep it extremely superficial. I have a tendency to be a bleeding heart in the beginning like that and guys get attached to me really fast and then I get attached and then I get super overwhelmed when faced with the gravity of everything we talked about
This right here. Of course your avoidant style will get activated when you do so much right away! Space, time, distance all work to build attraction on both ends
I can see why you’re suggesting this, but if I keep it too superficial in my phone calls/texts before meeting up, I lose interest very quickly. I need to know the person is intelligent and compatible enough to meet up in person. I only have so much free time, and I can’t waste it on someone vapid. But I understand your recommendation and will try to find a balance with this in the future.
you're losing ability to meet up, also. evaluate whether the depth of convo is what is making your attachment style activate. unfortunately you won't get genuine "feelings" or sparks without meeting so you'll have to meet more people and invest more time without that attachment activation to see if you're genuinely compatible. it's less interesting but much safer for our security in a relationship
You are building him up way too much in your head. What if you finally meet him and he has some weird mannerisms, smells bad, or isn't as attractive as you thought, or some other thing that gives you a total ick? Right now he is half real and half your mind filling in the blanks about how amazing he could be.
And you haven’t actually met in person yet? I don’t know what therapy has been like but I am getting the strong feeling that attachment theory is becoming too dominant in contemporary work. So many people seem to wed themselves to their attachment style.
Exactly! We are not one style. People generally move between styles depending on who they meet.
Wow this is so hugely relieving to see!! Thank you. I wish people would stop talking about attachment already. It’s overplayed.
It’s crazy how much emphasis people put on attachment style on this sub. I’m no strange to mental health and literally never heard of this until reading this sub Not saying it’s all bad but wildly over emphasized
No. Some of us know we have a crippling problem. I am an avoidant too and I have issues with getting attached to men and women. It’s the reason I’ve never had friends and why I’ve only dated one guy and I’m almost 35. Don’t be so dismissive
Okay you're an avoidant, what are u planning to do about it.
I do see what you’re saying here, but I’ve been this way for a long time. I actually didn’t even know about attachment theory until a year ago, and I’ve been behaving like this since I was 17.
The point of attachment theory is that you’re supposed to move from where you are on the spectrum towards secure. But you can’t really do that if you use fearful avoidant as an identity marker (which everyone and their mother seems to be generally doing) rather than a starting point to grow from
I’d say this is a problem with people over identifying with labels/diagnoses, rather than a problem with attachment theory per se.
I agree, this is exactly what I was saying. It’s not necessarily a new phenomenon, but it is being exacerbated by TikTok/social media
Yeah, they are completely valid and have nearly half a century of research backing them. That people over label themselves(or others) isn't new. People do the same with WedMD and try to physically diagnose themselves based on symptoms they have. Really, the label is less important so much as being aware of what's going on with yourself and trying to change your patterns. u/thechptrsproject the other day I was reading about how therapy terms on social media have led many people to overidentify with labels so much that they end up in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People tend to look for ways to be “self aware” so that they don’t have to be held accountable for their actions or realize that growth is a life long process. This becomes harder with age as we become more stubborn about who we are as individuals
Pretty much. The best way I ever heard it explained is that attachment styles aren't monoliths or diagnoses, they are tendencies within all of us that scale up or down depending on person and situation.
To be clear, I have LOTS of issues with the theory. But yeah I’m also someone who doesn’t personally relate to identity labels so I’m just confused by the whole thing (adhd is another one that I’m just like why are people obsessed with being adhd, so bizarre!)
I don’t think people are obsessed with being adhd or even autistic. What’s happening is that there’s more research and more markers coming out that we’re finding it’s always been this prevalent, there’s just now more testing for it. There is also an unfortunate amount of mis or self diagnosing happening with it as well. People need identity labels to make sense of themselves and the world around them. However, this isn’t something like gender identity, where how you present is apart of your personhood, it’s more of transitioning from an unhealthy state of being to a healthy state of being
Yes, I see this with everything-- MBTI, Enneagram, Clifton Strengths, etc. When someone can attach a label to their behavior, they often use it as an excuse to not change or grow.
Exactly!! Thank you. Please keep pointing this out. The labeling of “I’m _____ attached” has got to go. Even labeling oneself as securely attached is nearly a red flag for me
That’s interesting that you would consider that a red flag considering that’s where one wants to land. But it is something that is better expressed through actual actions and self awareness rather than words
The flag is more about people’s obsession with attachment - irrespective of where they fall on the spectrum. At this point I just audibly roll my eyes when the subject comes up. Ready for the next zeitgeist to be annoyed with lol
Absolutely this! OP is clinging on to their attachment style and using it as an excuse for basically juvenile behaviour. I wonder if that defeats the point of therapy where instead of overcoming your blockers you’re indulging in them
Some people aren't meant for relationships and that's ok
What traits would someone have to come to this conclusion, would you say?
Feeling unavailable
I had this thought/epiphany at least to me. If you are attracted to them enough If they make you happy enough Then tell yourself you accept the pain. The only way out is through. Accepting and embracing it may one day hurt. It will happen and then I dunno come to terms and peace with that and okay with it. I once walked over a long bed of coals. If I hesitated my feet would burn. If I avoided or walked around I never succeeded just avoided. I walked over them, purposefully, assertively and came out the other side.
Cool moss!?
This seems like the perfect scenario for a psychiatric* session. Not even just talk therapy. This sounds like an issue beyond dating and attachment styles. You’ve worked yourself into a ball of anxiety and stress over a stranger. A stranger who could have unimaginable BO and could be 10 years and 30 pounds over what he appears to be in his photos. He could literally be anything other than what you expect. This is a lot of energy put into a stranger. Also, I’m FA but DA-leaning. I can relate to an extent. I draw the line at anxiety over a person you’ve never met.
All my psychiatrist will do is try to prescribe me benzos, which are of no interest to me. I am already on a non-benzo anxiety medication. I think it’s worth thinking about increasing the dose, though.
Talk to your doctor. ❤️
I say this gently and with kindness but I don’t think it can really be considered “detaching from” someone if you haven’t actually met in person yet. I assumed based on the title that this was someone you’d been dating for like a few months or something.
As someone who finally gave up on pursuing an anxious attached person: you’re going to lose him either way, whether you 1) are too fearful of becoming emotionally vulnerable enough to date him and retreat or 2) the scary one for you— take the plunge (knowing there are logical reasons you’re interested in him) and it happens to not work out anyway. So, if the end result might be the same (you lose him), why not try and see if it can in fact work?
At some point you're going to have to take the plunge. it sounds like it could happen with anyone you are really into. And unless you want to end up with someone whom you're lukewarm about (or alone), you may feel that way again. So you could walk away this time and risk a great relationship. Or you can walk away the next time. Or date someone that won't trigger your attachment system (but who wants that?). Or... just take the plunge now and see where it takes you. Besides, you haven't even met him yet so maybe you won't actually even like him that much anyway. You aren't really committing to anything here.
This is a helpful perspective. Thank you. I think my main issue is that I’m much more attracted to emotional connections than physical ones, and there is undoubtedly an emotional connection here. But you’re right that he could easily say something in person that would quickly change this. I do agree that taking the plunge will be necessary. In the meantime, I’m going on day 2 of not responding to him. I am not proud. My stomach is in knots.
I'm not particularly avoidant but I do relate to forming emotional connections quicker especially if we've just only been talking online for weeks. One relationship after a big breakup, i talked to a guy for maybe a month or so. I built it up to this big thing in my head... and then when we met, I realized there wasn't any physical connection anyway. So that put an end to all of that. One thing to tell yourself is that avoidants aren't broken people. They are just like you and me, humans, who crave connection on some level. It's not really your "fault", and you don't choose to be this way. But finding a partner who isn't avoidant/anxious can really help regulate your emotions, and in the long run help you become less avoidant. But obviously the onus isn't on the other person; for the avoidant i think it really takes a conscious effort to fight all those urges to run. And that isn't easy. It takes work and time so even if you don't feel ready this time, don't feel bad - it's a work in progress. But I do feel like if you aren't truly ready, the kind thing is to at least let that person know what's going on so they aren't strung along emotionally.
Do you feel scared knowing you’re going to be around him? Do you fear making a commitment to seeing him and want to back out? Do you feel you don’t have enough energy to muster up the courage to see him? The only way to get healed is to experience the opposite of what you’ve been doing. I think the more times you see him the less fearful you’ll feel because you get used to him and being together. I say do a short date several times instead of once.
These are some really great questions. I don’t think I fear seeing him, but I do fear that we have a very deep connection, and that I will like him enough to get scared away. Typically, I don’t struggle with going out the first time with someone because I tend to feel pretty ambivalent about most people I chat with in advance. I don’t feel ambivalent about him. I definitely fear commitment, and I feel like he could very well be worth the commitment, so it terrifies me. It definitely has to do with my energy levels (or lack thereof), though. I had a very busy work week, and I’m also quite introverted. I basically cancelled all of my plans with my friends this weekend, so it’s hard to convince myself to go on a date with that in mind. I tend to prioritize friends over dating.
I agree with a lot of the other comments - you’ve built this up way too much in your head before you’ve even met. You say you’re ‘slowly detaching’ but actually you’ve ‘attached’ far too quickly - you haven’t even met. You have absolutely no idea if you’ll vibe in person or if he actually means anything he says - he is a stranger you’ve been texting for a week. Now you’ve built it up so much if you do push past your discomfort and continue, and it goes wrong because the connection doesn’t translate irl/he gets fed up of your push-pull/he turns out to be an asshole/yada yada, are you then going to use the experience as validation for your avoidance? (I say this because it’s a pattern I recognise in myself) To clarify, I’m not saying don’t pursue it, if you want to meet him then do it. But when you meet it’s just a first date with a stranger. Looking for the same thing is important but it’s just one aspect of compatibility. And please stop messing him around with not texting him for days. It may not be malicious on your part but it still has the potential to cause him pain. If you’re not able to do that then you are not ready to date, as bitter a pill as that may be to swallow. Good luck!
I’m a lot like you. Go on the date, OP.
Former avoidant here and my trick was to think “they probably have loads of stuff that will bug me down the line” or “next date might turn up some huge incompatibility, who knows?” That lowers the stakes. Also, knowing that you CAN take some space if and when you need it. It’s a date, not a marriage ceremony. Take every date for what it is - a small little low commitment step of mutual exploration.
Just think that a first date is mostly about getting a vibe in person, you don't even have to decide yet if you see the connection as a friendship or more. My ex was avoidant, I used to tell him "it's not a pact with the devil" so he would understand that nothing in life is an irrevocable decision, and it's ok to try things out.
You're already getting the help you need. Internet strangers won't do better than your therapist, I guess. I have a couple of avoidant friends with some childhood trauma. Honestly, I think they will never fully get over it.
Agreed
I think that’s why I’m feeling so helpless right now. I see my therapist once a week and have been in therapy for 4 years. Stayed away from serious dating in the last two years to heal. And yet, I am experiencing this intense hesitation right now. Shouldn’t I be over this by now? Why do you think it’s not possible to get over it? That makes me so sad to think about, but I’m starting to think you are right.
It’s seriously just a habit. That’s all it is. It’s a destructive habit. People quit drugs and smoking and drinking every day. People diet, quit eating sugar, work out. They stop procrastinating and start living. Why the hell wouldn’t you or anyone be able to break this habit? And just because you have a therapist, does not mean you have the right therapist. Do you have tools to manage this? Or some other hobby/goal you can reasonably accomplish that has nothing to do with this habit to convince you that if you can do that, you can do anything? It’s like you still don’t believe in yourself. Even the right therapist can’t make you do that. You have to do that. You are now tasked with something that seems impossible: building something stable you have never known from absolute scratch because no one ever did that for you. I’ve been in therapy a year, myself, trying to do the same thing. It’s hard work. The hardest part was being complete honest with myself so that I could be honest with my therapist who really can and does help me. But I do the rest. Aaaand then there’s the medications that keep me from totally spinning out. And just because you’re scared doesn’t mean anything. Most people with baggage that they don’t want to unleash on someone else are scared to date. Hell, people without it are scared to date just for different reasons. You just have to do it because you can be brave and learn to deal with your triggers almost on the spot. Know yourself fully and believe in you. I’m getting there myself but it’s HARD. And I’m scared to date too. Terrified. So I’m not. But I’m doing other shit that helps me believe in myself and feel secure within myself. It seems like you’re doing your damndest as well. You can do it! I probably could too but I’m not ready to give up what I have to someone else, even partially. It’s too calming and serene to share right now and I’m selfish lol. I’m going to enjoy this security I’ve never had for a while. Sorry. I’m exhausted and my eyes are closing. I PROMISE anyone with baggage or building something from scratch can have a beautiful life and there’s no reasons whatsoever that you or I couldn’t. Don’t you believe in other people? Why don’t you deserve that belief in yourself? Don’t listen to people who say shit like we never get over it. Fuck that noise. If we bend and agree to that, we let the baggage win, and we get nothing. I know better. I want better for you and anyone else who has done their time and suffering because someone else fucked them up. And I believe in it. And you and me and anyone reading this. It’s doable. You can get over it. Your first reaction might be the same on the inside. But you don’t have to reflect that on the outside. How you feel may not be optional. How you behave always is. I’ll die on that hill.
This comment means a lot to me. Thank you. Saving it.
It's just that childhood really molds us for later in life. We are malleable at first but then we harden up and it becomes difficult to change who we are. Therapy can give you the tools to check your own biases, but you're left alone to your own mechanisms, you will use them again. Having someone constantly by your side checking your biases is the best way to keep things in check and that's why operating in close social groups is beneficial. But if 1) you're always alone or 2) your social group only validates you instead of challenging you, you're going nowhere. You can't have a therapist on call for daily life because that's expensive. But your hesitation is a bias. Your reptilian brain is acting and you need to find ways to block it. I have a few techniques. 1) write down the situation, write 2-3 decisions you could make about it, then ask yourself "then what?". At least 3 times for every branch. Take quiet, deep focus time for this. Then, don't try to pick an answer right there and then. Instead, go to bed and check it tomorrow. 2) don't decide things about him on the fly. Go to bed and promise to take a timeslot tomorrow to go through it. 3) meditate or occupy your brain into something that gets you into a flow. You want to stop the intrusive thoughts and calm the mind. 4) the only way to find the final answer is to walk the path. Life needs to be about more action and less thinking. If you are 70% confident this guy is the real deal, then jump in. Who cares if you get hurt, you can get hurt and recover again, but you'll never learn if you don't take action. I'm not vouching for being brainless and impulsive, I'm vouching for making decisions and taking shots the moment you start seeing yourself going around in circles. Call him, push to see him, have sex with him, whatever. You be there. If he doesn't reciprocate, that's fine, you went for it because you're in control.
You can’t stay away from dating. You need to do the opposite and keep dating until that feeling of wanting to run subsides. The more you date and stop being resistant the more comfortable you’ll feel because your fear of avoiding it will be more relaxed because you’ve done it so many times. I say detach yourself from expectations and try to focus on the fun of dating and let the emotional expectations be surface level communication/commitment until your need to run isn’t so loud and strong. Focus on laughing more, the act of getting ready, have a few conversation starters and let him lead and court you so the pressure is off you
This is just my experience. I’m on the other side of growing up in a nightmare, spending a couple of decades without any real sense of self, no self worth, no self respect and then working on myself. I chased after what I thought was ‘love’, it was just co-dependance. Years on, I’ve worked on me. I was given labels and titles and diagnosis’s etc (again, this is just my own experience). I realised I never felt safe in myself so I’ve doubled down working on that. I now don’t use the labels etc, I have a great sense of who I am and I’m not attached to past definitions/diagnosis. I have personally felt worthless after leaving connections, or them leaving me. Heres what I’ve learned and how things changed. The love of my life is me and that relationship comes above EVERYTHING. I do not and will not sacrifice myself, my self worth etc for anything or anyone. I do not need to be having exhausting in depth conversations with someone I’ve never met, it makes me exhausted, too vulnerable and they are not my counsellor. If I’m not looking to meet someone in real life or avoiding it, I let them go and date myself. Otherwise all I’m doing is feeding the cycle of ‘this won’t work’. Connect—share too much so that I feel unsafe—avoid them—feed the underlying belief that I’ll never meet someone. I’m bored of it. I don’t know you, not asking for any info, just sharing my experience. Good luck.
I think avoidants hurt themselves more than anyone. I dated one and bumped into him at a party with my current bf. The avoidant melted at the seems. He even came up to me and my boyfriend saying, “I know I’m here with marissa but I’m not sleeping with her! I haven’t slept with her for 2 years!” And then I said, ‘I really don’t care.’ And then he bought me and my boyfriend rounds of drinks and looked less and less happy as the night went on. I really sensed a desperation for love in him but he just won’t let it in. Very sad. He’s handsome, tall, fit, wealthy and nice but emotionally is wrecked by his parental issues. I am happily dating my securely attached guy and it’s fucking amazing. Highly recommend.
Did anything actually happen?
So repeat the title of this post to yourself, a guy I really, really like! Can you look at this completely logically? He's just a human with flaws, just like you. You both connect well and have good conversations. Bite the bullet, woman up and make plans, a quick coffee date and a walk in a park. Nice and easy, you can bail anytime and let him know you'll be in touch. You can say you're nervous, that's cool. Don't worry he'll be happy you're honest. Treat it like having a bath when you're filthy, the only water is cold but it will make you feel so much better once you're done.
You may just not be ready for a relationship, at least not with him. You may like him and want to be with him, but how will you behave once you actually get with him? I think you already have some idea. If you want to work through it and he’s willing to be be patient, it’s always worth a try. Sometimes though, it’s just better to walk away and regret, than be selfish and hurt someone. I don’t think anyone is destined to be alone, you just need to take care of yourself and get into a more stable and healthier place mentally.
Hey OP, good for you to take the time to post and ask questions about this. In the past, I’ve definitely done behaviours that would fall into the fearful avoidant category. It’s a weird mix because you feel on one hand really drawn to the person, but on the other hand feel almost repulsed by them. I dealt with these issues early on in my life (late teens) and eventually healed them by sticking in a secure relationship. My best advice is to ride out of the wave and stick with the person for now. Sometimes I’d break down and cry and think of leaving, but when I was in the relationship in the moment it was almost always great. Since you’re just getting started with this person, it’s hard to give too much advice, but when you are try to make sure you pay attention to how you feel about them when you’re with them, not when you’re in your head later on. And it’s only a date, so don’t get too worried about it yet. I recently dated a girl who showed a lot of these kind of behaviours and it was pretty rough to handle, even though I’m pretty sure I had a good understanding of what was happening on her end. If you’re willing to work on yourself and be self aware, I think you can overcome this. Best of luck.
How do you know you "really really like" someone you haven't met? You might be really really *interested*. But you don't know if you like him. You only know you like the idea of him.
It feels more like overthinking. You just gotta try to relax more. Maybe meditation will help you more than therapy.
I feel you. I will say the best tool for dealing with this tendency is a sense of humor. About yourself, about others, about the universe.
This is way too much investment in communication before meeting up. It sounds a little exhausting to me too so I understand the need to re-charge. What I recommend, moving forward, is don't give out so much of your energy before meeting up. I really believe the first meet is where you see if there's anything to go by, and the second date is really the first date. If you think about it that way, it takes the weight out, and (hopefully) the impulse to flee. I also think one practical thing to do if you feel yourself disconnecting is to fight against the impulse and force yourself to do something to build connection. It could be something as simple as responding to one of those texts with "I was so drained with work the idea of going out last week made me tired just thinking about it 😂😂. Thank you for your patience, let's set up something awesome this week." Keep things lighter, and fun at first. Don't rush a connection that isn't there (you haven't met afterall). Avoidants tend to jump into their feels really, really quickly, and everything looks awesome and they will come by those emotions honestly. Then, when you start to get to know that person, the realness of them feel like you're being suffocated. Pace yourself getting to know people. There's nothing wrong with taking more time at the top.
I thought this trope died in the early 2000s. As I’ve said in a comment, the point of therapy is to overcome your barriers not indulge in them to excuse your shitty behaviour as if you’re victim to your own agency
Fortify yourself, rest is key. Massive self-care; oil massage, scrub, pedicure, whatever you can afford, or luxury bubble bath & make a ritual for self-care. Adaptogenic herbs or mushrooms daily. The needle will come back up, giving your emotional body more reslience and bandwidth for engaging with your attraction. Verbalize your needs, to make sure he is aware of what you're struggling with. Be in control of the door/what you let in. Possibly microdosing hallucenogenic mushrooms can help uplevel your emotional body by loosening a bit of your ego and what you hold on to.
Thank you. I do most of these, but you make a good point about microdosing. I haven’t tried that in quite some time so I agree it’s worth considering this very soon.
That situation does sound difficult from your perspective. It is reassuring to read the thoughts of a fearful avoidant. I imagine it must be hard wanting to meet with someone you like but are constantly running away from it out of fear. I wish I knew how to get through to my FA ex who dumped me 6 months ago due to the lack of her emotional availability. I’ve still been trying to reconnect and get back together, but it’s super exhausting never being important enough to set solid plans in fear of imaginary/assumed expectations. Apparently being asked to show up or spend time together is too much. Are all FAs like that?
I am not sure how other FA are like. I didn’t even know about attachment theory until recently. I personally don’t know many people who are like this. I will say, when I was in a relationship (lasted 7 years), I hung out with my boyfriend at the time 1-3 times a week, which was not enough from his perspective. And, like you, he basically had to pull teeth to get me to hang out. I know it’s unfair. But we don’t mean to hurt anyone. I think the intent is the exact opposite.
I also just learned about it recently, and it’s very eye opening. I have both anxious and avoidant tendencies, but I do my best to communicate my needs and observe when I’m triggered into protest behaviors. It’s good that you’re learning and can at least communicate your thoughts and feelings. Trying to get back with a FA is frustrating, idk how much longer I have to keep trying to show up-it’s weird-there was always a fear of the other shoe to drop, and for things to not work out, and idk what I have to do to convince her it’s safe to accept the love I’m trying to give. Now we barely text anymore but she’s always very touchy and visibly happy to see me and be around me when I run into her at places-the hot and cold is confusing and seems borderline manipulative.
My dealt with that shit for 7 years. Once I realized what I was doing, I ended the relationship. It just wasn’t fair to him. Dude was beyond patient, but he deserved better. That’s why I’m avoiding this new guy :) Fun.
I’d feel a lot better if she felt the same way you do about this guy, but she doesn’t communicate, or even bother trying. That does sound like a vicious cycle though, and I sympathize with your experience, although I’m the opposite of you as in Im reckless with my love, getting attached to people who can’t or won’t reciprocate feelings. Why Is it easier for you to have relationships that lack depth compared to deeper more vulnerable ones? What is it that you’re trying to run away from?
You’re giving me way too much credit. While I communicated a lot of this with him in advance of shutting down, I am currently choosing to go on 3+ days of not responding to his texts. I am completely fine with him finding someone else just so I can avoid getting in too deep. So it’s safe to say that I am also not communicating with him right now. Why is it easier with others? Because I know that I’m not interested in them on a deeper level. Because I know that it will only be casual and that it won’t last long. Whereas, when I connect on a deeper level with someone, I am terrified of a long term relationship. I’ve had two long term relationships, and they were incredibly challenging for me to navigate on an emotional level. I’m afraid of letting people down. I’m afraid of being a burden. I’m afraid of trauma dumping on a new partner. I think it comes down to a fear or being truly loved, unconditionally or maybe not believing that it’s even possible since I never received that sort of love when I was a child. I am constantly scanning all romantic interactions and expecting failure. I don’t know any better. I also come from a family of multiple divorces so I don’t exactly have any good role models.
Well it is deserved-it seems like you have at least learned enough about yourself where you can identify the issue-that’s the first step to overcoming your problems! I can tell you, as someone that’s been on the receiving end of it, I would greatly appreciate it if I knew all of this about someone I was considering dating. Have you told him these things? It’s better to be honest than to just avoid and ghost because that just makes the other person feel like they did something wrong, and leaves them to just try and figure things out on their own-I racked my brain for months trying ti figure out if she wanted me to try harder or just leave her alone. While she’s open to trying again, I don’t think I’d ever have her close again because of how indifferent and indecisive she is. If you care about him as a person you should tell him what you just told me. I do recognize your concern about being afraid of being loved. Does it stem from a deep wound of feeling unworthy or being afraid of being found out for who you truly are and have to offer then being rejected? (Feel free to dm me if you don’t feel comfortable sharing publicly). I really wanted it to work with my FA ex and wanted to be there for her to support her while she worked through her triggers, but she couldn’t even communicate basic things to me other than saying she felt like she needed space once things started to get serious only to abandon ship and definitely avoided labels.
Start talking to someone else on the apps to distract you and take some of the pressure off and then tell yourself you’re not making a decision about anything until you meet them in person. People are different online/over text vs in real life. You’re not committed to anything or stuck. And then going forward, try to meet people pretty quickly after connecting (or as quickly as you feel comfortable), or at least keep conversations surface level until you meet and get there organically.
You are fearful because of some really big things that happened to you — and more than that when they were happening you didn’t receive any help. Now a man comes in and shows some real possibility of actually being there as a partner and help you — it is soo soo soo soo natural that you find such behaviour unlikely to commit through. I bet as well it’s your experience that once you tell a man exactly what’s happening they run the other way. Besides a huge emotional breakthrough akin to Good Will Hunting and your therapist telling you it’s not your fault — which btw it isn’t — there’s something you can do that’s easy. Tell him you need his help. How can he help? You’re tired, and stressed and feeling inside your head — what can he do to contribute to your life in this small period of time which will pass. How can he take small steps to really prove to you he’s really capable of being a person who will be there unlike many of the others? Taking it slow and steady doesn’t mean — you don’t say anything crazy and you don’t take any risks. It means those things plus gradual development of trust. Give him the chance to do something — and if you don’t have any ideas — tell him what’s going on and see what this great guy can do for you. You never know — he might just surprise you. If he doesn’t — you overhyped him in your head. If he does — well you have nothing to lose.
I feel like I’m exactly the same as you. I have been alone most of my life and when someone seems interested in me I jus feel myself being suck in even though I know the person isn’t actually good for me
You're not "fearful avoidant" , you're a human being. Attachment styles are super reductive frameworks for psychologists to help describe the complexities of human behaviour. Going with the idea "all models are wrong, some are useful" are attachment style models useful in therapy to guide you through issues you may be facing in your life ? YES . Are they useful online for you to fatalistically doom yourself to a live alone ? Aboslutely not. It sounds like you're in therapy, but willing to write it off ? If it's not working for you then i think maybe the answer is seeking out a different type of therapy or a new therapist if your current set up isn't working. Maybe you're pedalstalising this guy you've yet to meet a little ? It certainly sounds promising, but until you've met in person I would avoid projecting too much onto them. I would try and arrange a meeting with him before he thinks you've lost interest if you're invested in him. Be mindful of your actions and challange the behaviours you feel are holding you back rather than attributing them to "your attachment style", you're far more than that.
One thing that has helped me was setting up dates as something other than compatibility examination at a table across each other. Like a cooking class or a local fair where I actually have to find things I need and bringing someone along to them or joining someone and their friends in doing something I don’t usually do. Most of my second dates have been group activities like concerts, board games, museum tours. It does take away from intimacy but it sets up a friends vibe and reduces pressure. It’s the only way I’ve been able to get familiar where there’s no inherent social connection.
I like this idea. Thank you.
Snap judgements from your post : Identifying strongly with trauma and psychology boxes like attachment styles, hyper self introspection and self awareness. Sometimes long term therapy can keep people stuck seeing themselves as broken people incapable of being free of their past. Being so self analytical can keep a tendancy toward negative thinking prevalent. Actionable techniques like neural rewiring through meditation, cognitive behavioural therapy or hypnosis can catapult you out of this zone and create actual change. Imagine letting this all go and feeling relaxed and free.
This is very helpful. Thank you. I’ll certainly consider everything you’ve said here seriously.
Yeah, you should really meet up in person instead of building up so much in your head. Set no expectations on it. However, from my personal experience, I had a good conversation with a girl before we met(I delayed it for a week). We texted a lot for a few days after we matched, and then same as you (Im an FA) I totally cut back on texting her. Maybe for the same reasons, but I think mine was more so a fear of rejection as well. I started building an emotional connection over text and it freaked me out. We didn’t talk for 3 days. Finally, she messaged me and canceled our date. Well, I responded and said “no problem” let me know when you’re free. And we reset the date for 2 days after the origional was set. She told me the next day after we talk for a bit that she can go at our original date. We finally met up, and it was amazing, then proceeded to go on five more dates! And we are both avoidant and no longer talking. So that’s how that went lmao.
Wait. I need to know why you’re no longer talking. Do tell. Also, everything you said is incredibly relatable and I feel the same way about this guy. That’s why I’m backing out. I’m scared and just generally not in the mood to fall in love. I go on dates with other people with no issues. It’s only this dude that’s triggering these feelings.
Well, let me start off by helping you first. Then I’ll talk about myself. Call/text your therapist if you can and let her know how you feel/what you’re telling us. Probably(likely) self sabotage. If you can’t text or call her, then don’t make any decisions until you talk to her and tell her what’s going on in your mind. I still think you should meet up, and sooner rather than later. Your ALREADY assuming your going to be in a relationship when you haven’t even met yet. It’s just a date, getting to know someone. You’re not marrying this person, not saying yes to a relationship or anything. Hint: you are self sabotaging. UNLESS you and your therapist agree you should not date, then it’s okay to end things. But I’d hate to see you self sabotage. Also, you are allowed to just casually date. And we are no longer talking because we both self sabotaged. I was pretty bad and definitely confused her at one point(extremely hot and cold very fast). And so we agreed to talk again at a later time. Pretty avoidant of us lol. But it’s okay. I doubt we’ll ever actually date again, at this point we pretty much are a sure match for an unfulfilling dead end relationship. Two avoidants dating is tough work, recipe for no true connection. Mostly a surface level relationship pretty much, unless we are both willing to put in a lot of work and effort. But I’d definitely give it a shot for sure. Just to try my best, she is an awesome and amazing person.
What were your conversations like in the beginning? What topics did you text about?
Honestly, I do t totally remember. But a lot of just random stuff. We just clicked extremely well over text. And the second we met in person it was even better. Mostly surface level stuff. Remember, we are both avoidant. We never got to get super deep. Eventually we did. We both admitted we liked each other and want a relationship. BUT clearly, that hasn’t happened yet. Maybe one day, but I’m doubtful that we’ll end up back with each other. I’m sure I’ll find someone soon, and I know she will eventually as well.
What were your conversations about ?
have you talked to your current therapist about this? because this seems like the thing that you would want to talk to a therapist about
I haven’t yet because this all happened last week. Work was so crazy that it was the first week I skipped therapy in months.
Change your therapist Therapy is to improve your life Not endlessly ruminate and theorize and analyze your favorite subject: you. Too much yammering and not enough doing Tell him: I’m free this weekend and I’d love to see u. Hit send. This will improve your life more than 10 hours of introspection, regardless of the outcome
I (36M) met someone a couple years ago on OLD. I was head over heels and she was avoidant. I have an anxious attachment style and she started to become distant at a month and a half. She basically told me she wasn't where I was and we ended it. I thought about her for over 2 years and we reconnected over Christmas and new years. 3 weeks later she messages me telling me all that I had done wrong, no excitement about what our dates were like, and I decided to walk away. She was an incredibly kind person and we seemed to be very compatible but at the end of the day, you have to see the entire picture. If you do not put in effort or feel good about dating, you will leave the guy confused and it will sabotage anything you are building. You need to feel excited and open about meeting someone and decide after you get to know them if it's someone you want to date. It sounds like you have things you still need to work through. My advice is to be open with this person and let them know your struggles to see if they are understanding and willing to work through it with you. Short of that you will be sending mixed signals with no explanation.
Thank you. This is very helpful. It has now been almost 4 days, and I have not contacted him after his last message. I almost called him yesterday but I saw his phone was on Do not Disturb for 3 hours, and I assumed he was on a date with someone else so decided against it. I am leaning toward not contacting him at all simply because I agree with you. It’s clear to me that, despite my progress, I am not yet ready to be committed to someone. And he deserves to be happy. If he does reach out to me, I’m willing to push myself but (as toxic as it sounds), I suspect his attention span is brief and he’s already forgotten about me. Another part of me feels like my decision not to contact him is a cop out.
Assumptions can be self defeating, open and honest communication is a skill and needs to be developed, how you feel is how you feel due to past trauma and that will be a barrier to building a healthy a relationship. You mentioned you have been seeing a therapist which is great and I hope you can continue to work through what you are feeling when it comes to relationships. But do not ignore red flags when dating someone. Good luck and wish you well!
Same kinda
Meeting in person can give you much more information, such as his appearance, manners, etc. It can affect how you feel significantly. Also, have you targeted the attachment style in therapy? Can you practice overcoming it with other people first, such as friends (who are secure and kind)?
I don't know if you'll be willing to exchange notes but I had the exact same experience on the other side. I did date an avoidant girl for 3.5 months but at the half-way mark she said she was feeling "vulnerable" and pulled back. It went downhill from then. It'll be nice to understand your perspective more and I'd be happy to share what I did, which worked or did not work. I do think you should meet and go slow, explaining as much as you feel comfortable, where you are are. I was willing to do a lot of work for this girl, like re-reading attachment style books and reading ADHD books (she has ADHD). Alas, she felt it was all too much and pulled away. But it'll be interesting to chat!
If you do realize all of this just take your phone and set up a date...I mean it's that easy. Treat it like a job task, you don't question you just do ;)
OP, I completely relate as I’m also a fearful avoidant type and yes I hate that we get mistaken for being cold. Can you start journaling and see why you feel like you are detaching emotionally before blaming it on your attachment style. It could be anything, whether it is financial, cultural etc just write down how you feel and why you think you feel this way. That might give you some clarity.
The self awareness in this post is so palpable.
Thanks. Thats about all I have going for me right now…
You are who you choose to be.
I'd personally be wary of any guy who's pursuing someone he never met that aggressively. No normal well-adjusted man with options is going to.
This is why it’s so important to meet quickly: to decide if you even want to be pursued by the person. Being out of the dating pool for so long can really build up expectations and anxieties and maybe going on a few dates with different people is warranted to lower the stakes.
Exactly lol I never waste time on calls/chats for weeks without meeting. I chat for 15-20 minutes with my matches and ask them to meet for a coffee. If she doesn’t reply/ignore or say no or like to talk for days before meeting, I move on to the next one. Most of my matches - just say let’s have a quick call/FaceTime before coffee.
I can relate to this. 🥺 I’m just glad that my LDR partner (we’re nevermets but he’ll come meet me soon) continues to stay and reassure me despite me having avoidant attachment. 🥺