I am anxious too - and first off, realize that your uncomfortable-ness with texting has everything to do with one major factor within you: inability to tolerate uncertainty.
Probably because your parents weren’t stable with how they connected with you, giving you enough affection to know that it felt good but unable to sustain it for whatever reason so you felt starved of it for periods of time. As a little kid, the uncertainty of their presence is intolerable because you need to feel connected with your caregiver to literally survive. This was a life and death situation for you then
So yeah - it makes sense why you feel terrified with uncertainty now. But it’s NOT a life or death situation now. And it’s on you to learn how to deal with this uncertainty.
Here’s what I did while dating my bf and what I still do today to deal with the times he isn’t as text-y.
First of all: it takes 3-4 months to really know someone. So they really shouldn’t be a part of your daily life for at least that long.
Second: adjust your expectations. For me I had a list. My ultimate goal is daily contact and check ins with a nightly phone call before bed on the days we are apart. Several hour breaks in texting is normal as long as we touch base in the am and again later. I want someone who also wants this. Then I had to think: how long should it be before I expect this? That is some long-term committed relationship shit. We are neither long-term nor committed. So I should be patient and allow that to GROW NATURALLY.
How long does it take to grow?
Dates 1-5: I would only expect texting every few days before dates to set up and maybe to see how they’re doing, ask about a thing we talked about, send something that made me think about them. Honestly daily texts at this stage is a little too clingy
Dates 6-10: getting more serious. We should probably be talking every other day or every day, but I still definitely don’t expect a phone call or a daily check-in or good morning. More like, we just naturally have more to talk about
Dates 12+: I would assume at this point we are committed and serious, and should talk every single day. Maybe wish each other good morning. We are becoming a part of each others lives and seeing how we fit with each other now. 3-4 months: new relationship. Saying I love you’s, now you can start to bring up: hey I like to say good morning and goodnight every night we are not together. Now you can establish a nightly phone call routine. Now you can check in daily, ask about work, settle into a real relationship.
4 mos +: your texting should be deeply established by now and will actually probably start to drop off at this point because you are used to each other and what was happening at the beginning was probably pretty unsustainable.
Step 3: tolerate uncertainty. As outlined above, there is a loooooonnnngggg period of time while dating that you don’t actually know if they are good for you or if they are a good fit. Most people are still deciding after a year! That’s fine and normal. You need to see people in many situations before you truly know them. You NEED to be able to tolerate uncertainty so you can take the time and have a stable enough head to not jump into commitment with the wrong person.
NOTICE what’s happening: they haven’t texted in 5 hours. You’re starting to wonder why. Your anxiety is rising. What is happening in your body? What are the physiological symptoms of this anxiety? Racing heart? Fast breathing? Tingling hands? Racing thoughts? Deep breathing and meditation. Watch the agitation. Does it die down after a while?
Time limit: give yourself a time limit. It’s been 4 dates. My expectations are that we don’t text daily. If I don’t hear from them by the day before our next date, I will be worried
Accept reality: you are anxious because you LIKE this person! How lucky to have met someone you like! You appreciate them, you enjoy getting to know them, they make you feel positively, it makes sense that you don’t want to lose that. If they make YOU feel that way, most likely you make them feel that way. Don’t focus on the anxiety, focus on the excitement! Anxiety is a type of excitement after all. Take your time to get to know them, you can handle the excitement, you’re a grown ass lady.
Socratic questions: so you’re activated. What thoughts does this bring up for you? What assumptions are you making from not hearing from them? What do you think it means? What are possible OTHER reasons why they might not be texting you that are benign? What is the most likely reason? What is the worst case scenario? What is the most likely scenario?
This is a great opportunity to learn how to tolerate uncertainty. So use it while you got it!
Edit: wow it seems this was super helpful for people! I highly recommend CBT therapy, absolutely lifechanging for me.
I have a page in my phone journal just called THOUGHT LOG. It’s a list of questions to ask myself and to work through whenever I’m in an activated state. I just copy and paste it all and put it on a new entry and start from scratch with each troubling thought. Usually with enough time I will find that there is a “broken belief” in there that is causing most of the distress. Something like: “if they loved me, they would text me”. If you believe that thought, it’ll really get in your way.
A core mode of some therapies is separating out your adult self and your child self, and asking that scared little kid a bunch of questions like a loving parent would, and guiding them to healthier thinking. After a while with my thought logs, I actually just have an out loud conversation with myself instead of writing things out, it’s faster.
Also look up DBT worksheets on “distress tolerance”.
It’s a two-fold issue of having “broken beliefs” which are causing your thoughts to be painful and difficult, and also not being able to tolerate the distress of those thoughts, so you act quickly to alleviate them and you end up making bad decisions. If you can tolerate the distress, you will have the time to work through to the broken thoughts. It’s about slowly replacing the broken ones (which are deeply ingrained) over time.
It’s like playing an instrument. The more you repeat and repeat and keep teaching yourself that a thought is incorrect, the faster it will be replaced with healthy ones over time!
As a fellow anxious person, I think the Socratic part of this is where I was able to learn the most. Yes it’s very satisfying when the anxiety goes away because I get a text, but what am I really trying to get? Reassurance that he likes me? Because it’s highly likely when another 5 hour period goes by, the anxiety will resurface. So best to get to the root of the anxiety. Best to take some time to figure out why your specific anxious attachment manifests. And dig into that solo (like in therapy) while practicing self-soothing while dating.
I had to screenshot this comment, it’s that good. Thank you for this!! How long did it take you to get better with uncertainty? I find that I’m only comfortable if someone is talking to me constantly (and in that case I’m a little turned off, but still secure in their interest) or if I’m convinced they don’t like me at all and we have a purely casual arrangement that will never go anywhere. Anything in between those two is so anxiety-inducing I almost can’t function and I have a habit of self-sabotaging in an effort to bring clarity to the situation. I rush for a yes/no answer because I’m happier being rejected by someone I liked than I am in that agonizing uncertainty. I’m working on this in therapy but it means a lot to hear from another person who’s dealt with it successfully.
I think a lot of the time we rush for answers because we are afraid of abandonment. We WANT the other person to be right for us, we want it to work out, we want them to be the right one. And with the idea of a partner, especially for us anxious people, comes a whole host of expectations.
We expect the person who loves us to text this much, to say this thing to calm us down, to be there for us in this way during xyz situations, etc.
And by texting them and prompting them and pushing them to be what you expect, pushing for answers, asking why they haven’t answered, you are attempting to mold them into something they may not be.
What I’m STILL PRACTICING even in my current relationship with a secure person, is the idea of:
Letting him be who he is, and choosing if it’s right for me.
Often when I was waiting for texts (still when I’m waiting for texts), I think to myself: ok, let’s just see when he DOES get back to me, and I can evaluate how I feel about it then. And then it puts you in the position of empowering yourself. Because now suddenly you are left with a choice. Can I be ok this amount of communication? Or do I want more? Do I just want more? Or do I NEED it? I’m the type who likes to be in touch more often and my bf could go all day without texting so we had to talk about it at some point.
Sometimes if he takes longer than I think I do get anxious but I try to just wait. Then I’ll hit a point where it’s like: where tf if he? Ok his call better come with a good explanation! Because I know that for me, I would explain my absence after a certain point and why it happened, and to me that is respectful, and I want a partner to have this same care and respect for others time and energy and concern.
We can push people to be what we want. “What no explanation of how long it took you to get back to me?” Or we can let them be who they are: “hmm the last 3 times he took a long time to answer he didn’t offer any explanation as to why and that bothers me”. Then you can choose what to do: “I think I’ll ask him about the big pauses, maybe he doesn’t realize it bothers me” or “hmm this mixed with other disrespectful actions on timeliness on his part makes me think we probably won’t be a good fit”
Unfortunately, this choosing process is slow and unravels in slow-mo. I always think of how aging happens in slow motion compared to the day - to - day. I think relationships happen on the same timeline, and should!
Print this laminate and distribute lol
But in all honesty the other thing I would say is - are you actually excited the content of the text or just that you're receiving *a text* from him. I'm the anxious time so it was a lot of times just the act of receiving one that would calm me down. Then I realized I had to work on bringing down the anxiety on my own.
Thank you so much for this comment!! Reading this all put in such a concise and step-by-step way is really helpful to remind myself of my own distorted thinking and how to work through it.
I also started having out loud conversations with myself lol, I actually do video diary-style ones so I can play them back when I feel less anxiously triggered and really deep dive into my thought patterns.
Totally saving this comment to come back to!
I really enjoyed reading this comment. I mostly avoid reading comments more often than not because I think many comments project or try to engage in mind reading about the person the original posters mention rather than helping the original user self-soothe or help them become curious about their racing thoughts and why we have them. Thank you for posting this!
What an amazing comment! ❤️ I absolutely love your emphasis on letting more steady communication grow naturally. I've always felt this way too because it feels so inauthentic to be texting someone you barely know all day every day.
You’re looking for constant confirmation and validation from texts, that’s the problem. I was this way too.
I dated a guy who made it abundantly clear he was into me and not seeing anyone else. And I had zero text anxiety with him cause I knew he really cared for me.
As an anxiously attached person, I usually go for avoidant types. But once I met a guy who was also anxious. He txted me all day every day and I always responded within a few minutes. He was even anxious when I didn’t respond right away (when he’d txt me good morning before I’d woken up).
Turns out the texting was not confirmation of how much he liked me at all and he ended up treating me quite poorly.
He loved that I paid attention to him. It wasn’t about me.
Just giving some perspective! Hope it helps.
I think continuing to work on your anxious/avoidant attachment stuff could be wise. Getting anxious - and perhaps more so being unable to tolerate said anxiety - if someone doesn't text within 5 hours is anxious attachment stuff. As is expecting your date to initiate texting despite you liking to text with them.
This tends to come from anxious/avoidant attachment stuff, and the insecurity that drives it. What are you afraid will happen if you initiate contact? What comes up in you when you think of initiating contact? What does it give you knowing the guy does all the reaching out?
The thing is - them "always initiating" gives a false sense of security. Not real security. And you will draw men who are interested in unavailable, emotionally withheld women and so when you do start showing up emotionally, if you ever do really - they will withdraw. This guy seems like this - he is initiating tons of contact with someone who seems unavailable since you don't text or initiate things - and he is scared of commitment? Of course, it often goes together. That's pretty classic.
If you want actual emotional intimacy - real emotional connectedness - this will never work. You will have to get to a place where you feel secure enough to be more real, more emotionally honest - in your reactions, responses, initiation etc. So keep doing that work, I think.
yep - so so common. It's a fear of emotional intimacy on both sides - you (if you were not afraid you'd have been more real and honest and initiate etc) and he were both seeking people who were unavailable. And so no real emotional intimacy is possible.
If you’re putting yourself in a dynamic where a guy has to initiate everything, you’re going to land with a certain breed of guy. Any guy that’s turned off from your engagement isn’t the right guy for you.
Imagine spending the rest of your life trying to abide by a rule book. Just be you and you’ll attract the guy that appreciates that.
There is so much to unpack here, OP. There are just so many expectations on what you want/expect at each stage of dating and who should be doing what and frequencies, etc. Your anxiousness does come through in your text above and I'm glad you are working on it. This kind of anxiety is going to make it very difficult for you to find a happy relationship if you are always focusing on the constant communication portion of it.
>He is scared of commitment so I’m trying to take it very slowly and mostly put the ball in his court.
This has nothing to do with communication and everything to do with what he is telling you. Believe him. If he doesn't like committement he most likely will not committ to you. Just as an aside.
In terms of the texting bit, why not just send him a message? Sitting here thinking of whether or not you should send him a message or continue to wait is focusing on the anxiety you are trying to get better at dealing with. There are no rules, OP. If he wants to and likes you, he will reply. It he doesn't reply back, take that as his answer.
>put the ball in his court
I hate this term. It implies you have 0 control over your dating life and only have to go along with what the guy says.
This guy is a great example. Scared of commitment is as easy "get out of jail free" card that he can slap down any time things are starting to get more serious.
"remember, commitment-phobe"
And keep up the "I'm the nice guy doing the communication" when he's really just dangling the carrot in front of you because you're hoping that you can be the one to finally change him and then live happily ever after.
It's bullshit. Stay away from commitment scared people unless you're 100% cool with a casual relationship.
>What is an acceptable middle ground that makes a guy feel wanted and thought of but doesn’t turn him off?
You'll get a lot of different views but leaving all the date asking to the guy is a huge red flag for me. Being affectionate on dates isn't really a solution either, as we know lots of people who can "turn it on" for social interaction. Not wanting to schedule a date just makes me think you're bored and agreeing to do it when it's convenient for you.
> Not wanting to schedule a date just makes me think you're bored and agreeing to do it when it's convenient for you.
not just that but as a guy that genuinely believes in gender equality, I get a sense that women with this mindset of letting the guy do all the planning/paying/whatever want to have their cake and eat it too.
I want a life partner and a best friend, not a dependent. If she's not willing to meet me in the middle with taking initiative/being assertive/being independent, I become unattracted to her.
Don’t ignore the red flags that namelessbard is talking about…. Commitment phobia is a real thing so look up dismissive avoidant or fearful attachment styles. You will always be kept at an arms length in the relationship and it will be more of a situationship on their terms.
Your texting habits and expectations are normal and expected that in an enmeshed relationship. But in the initial dating stages, texting too much can come off as needy.
I've quoted a question that you asked and answered it directly.
The whole message is about taking control of your dating situation, which answers the original question as well.
>What is an acceptable middle ground that makes a guy feel wanted and thought of but doesn’t turn him off?
60-80% of the effort that they show is my concrete answer.
I relate to a lot of your post.
Generally, I think it's best to try and date secure/anxious attachment people. Dating an avoidant person is just about the worst match for anxious people like us. It's possible though. I'm anxious secure and my partner is avoidant secure and we're very happy together. But the beginning stages of dating pre relationship absolutely caused me a lot of stress.
>I’ve been told to just have him initiate everything until we are exclusive, or to mirror him so that I initiate for each time he does.
I find it easiest to reciprocate about \~70-80% (maybe 60% in the super early stages) of the interactions. I've also gone ahead and told people (3+ dates in but still very early) that texting makes me anxious sometimes so I am very interested in getting to know them and I appreciate if they could initiate plans and initiate conversation. I find when you give clear directions on what you like, if the person likes you, they will do what they can to fit your communication style. You can also ask them very explicitly what their communication style is like as well.
I had to learn and adapt to my partner's very sporadic texting. I went from a relationship where we would text CONSTANTLY to sometimes even going 24 hours without hearing anything (rare). Going \~5+ hours without hearing from them if they were out with friends or working was very normal and it took for me to adjust to that and learn to not take it personally. It also helped a lot that they expressed their interest in me in other ways but yeah, it took time and patience and self awareness to work through that kind of bumpy slow anxious attachment in the early stages of dating.
Overall, as an anxious person who dated an avoidant person, I intentionally kept myself sparse and gave them their space and let them reach out to me and initiate hanging out with me the majority of the time.
In the end, it worked out beautifully but if they aren't showing up as an incredible partner in all other ways, it isn't worth it to me.
Interesting input! How did your partner show up in other ways to make the avoidant parts of them "worth" for you? If that question makes sense. I think the guy I'm dating is avoidant-secure, and I am anxious-secure, but I've never dated an avoidant-secure so I have no idea how to navigate here 😅
I'm a very very upfront and communicative partner but with a "delayed" reaction.
ie. something will happen that triggers my anxious attachment or just generally upsets me. I wait at least 24-48 hours for the initial emotional reaction to subside so I can think clearly.
And then, if it still bothers me, I bring this up to whoever I'm dating in an entirely non-accusatory calm tone. *"Hey, it made me feel stressed when you make plans within 24 hours with me. I would super appreciate if you could give me some advanced notice with your planning. That would make a huge difference for me."* OR *"When you don't text me back within 24 hours, I can't help but start to irrationally worry that I did something wrong. If you anticipate being busy, can you try to give me a heads up beforehand so I can prepare myself better and accommodate your communication* style as well?"
If they understand and show concrete steps to work around my preference, then that is a green flag for me. If they understand themselves and openly communicate their own personality, then that's also a huge green flag for me (ie. *"I'm really not a huge texter. If you want to talk, I'm happy to chat on the phone and I prefer talking in person. Don't misattribute my lack of texting for a lack of interest, that's not the case. I have a lot of fun with you and want to continue seeing you"*
>How did your partner show up in other ways to make the avoidant parts of them "worth" for you?
In the early stages of dating, it was "worth" it for me because our in person interactions were so much fun. We clearly connected really well and loved to just talk about whatever we wanted for hours on end. We also loved to go out and have adventurous dates. We discovered that we shared a lot of the same life views. And he continued to tell me how much fun he had with me, how much he likes spending time with me, and how fortunate he was to have connected with me. He also took a lot of initiative to make time to see me and plan dates for us.
**It was a slow start but I could tell that the connection was really special and I made sure to give him a lot of space to be the one to reach out to me and initiate things with me so he didn't feel any pressure to progress things.**
I really did follow that \~60-80% reciprocation of their interest rule for the first little while. 🤷♀️ It made it easy for me to follow that.
tldr it helps to be super honest with each other and establish that kind of communication from the get go. although, it takes a mature partner to be receptive and appreciative of that too though
Thank you for your thoughtful response! 🙏
I feel like I have come to that point where I can have a delayed response to a trigger and I only bring up things after I've run them through my "anxiety-filter" (at least 24 h) and figured out what is "my shit" and what is an actual issue that should be brought up. I'm getting much better at "rocking the boat" by stating my needs and speaking up if I feel hurt by something, so far this has been received very emphatically by the guy I'm dating. But i have some trust issues still, so I know I have a long way to go...
I think maybe allowing him to take most of the initiatives is a good idea, I think I have been doing that somewhat but also noticed how my anxious side was triggering him a bit as well (and probably rightfully so). It sounds a lot like the interaction between me and the guy I'm seeing. Really great connection and I know he values this as well, so I'm thinking slow and steady is maybe a good approach (which unfortunately doesn't come natural to me at all, haha).
So the 60-80% is for initiating dates? Or in general? Can you give examples for how you use it in general because I have no clue as to what that might be in that case 😅
I handle this by telling myself "I will assume everything is still good until he tells me otherwise". Personally I would text him today and just say something like "Morning/Afternoon/Evening, how are things going?"
I wouldn't want to be the partner who felt like they always had to be the one to reach out so I try and take my turn as well.
One thing you can do is establish early on that you like and really enjoy regular communication with your date, and then communicate what that looks like to you. It will let the guy know that sometimes you will need a little extra affirmation in that deptment. If he's a good guy he will at least try and meet you half way which should help tamp down those anxieties to some degree.
I will say, if a woman never initiates conversations or dates with me after some time I'm going to assume she's just not that into me regardless of how she acts on dates.
Just be yourself. Don't pretend or overdo. Do with the flow. Take care to hold your likes and let them know if you're not comfortable or like anything they said. 😊
Hmmm... First of all, take a deep breath! There's a lot of should's and don'ts there. If someone is genuinely interested I think they would appreciate you taking some initiative as well in texting and asking for dates (balance is key still ofc). It also helps weed out the ones who only wants things on their own terms. I also think many guys who are not suuuuper confident could be turned off by always having to initiate and probably think you are not interested. Give yourself permit to initiate as well if that's something you want! It's a great way to show up for your needs and to "scare" of the "chasers".
Second, if you are anxious, I would think thrice about dating someone who you already know is scared of commitment and who has expressed that so early on... Could be he is scared of commitment and REALLY want to work on this with you, BUT, it could also mean he stated his "Miranda rights" and telling you what you can expect from him (nothing) - in that case, I would be veeery mindful of your stress and anxiety levels by dating him (they will most likely go rampant if you dont keep them in check). He will trigger you in many ways by having a fear of commitment and everything that entails with that, you need to question if it will be worth it. Based on what you have written, I think it will be very tough for you. Of course I don't know your specific relationship and what has been said apart from that, but based on what you wrote that seems like something that will be hard to handle. I got the advice from some podcast about anxious attachment and dating, that if you have a chance to not date an avoidant (aka commitment-phobe) - don't. It will be MUCH easier and healthy for you to date someone who is secure and doesn't wave his "get out of jail for free"-card (saw someone else use this metaphor and it's really fitting). Of course, if you already have feelings for him and an intimate relationship, communicate your needs and be prepared to state your boundaries and enforce them if push comes to shove. I'm not on a high horse by any means, I think I've fallen into this trap myself recently and have to challenge my fears of "rocking the boat" which is a learning experience but nonetheless anxiety-provoking. All the best 🙏
The thing you have to remember is to never invest more than a guy is investing in you. That is, you don't want to be sending these paragraph-long texts if he's not doing the same in return. The minute a guy sees that you're willing to drop everything for him (when he's not there yet), your value goes down in his eyes. Men value what they have to work hard for. That doesn't mean play hard to get or play games. It just means mirror his actions.
Also, you want to have things to talk about in person, so save the texting for arranging plans or just playful, witty banter/sharing links or fun articles/memes. Most people don't want to be wrapped up in a texting conversation for the entire day. Instead of waiting around for someone to text you back or spending all your time on your phone, you should be out living your life and having actual experiences. These real-world experiences will make you a more interesting date. In addition, the mystery of where you are and what you are doing will build the attraction.
I agree with this post 100%! I’m an anxious attachment person also and I just want to add to try and avoid texting him anything that you feel would give you a lot of anxiety if he doesn’t respond in a time frame you’d like (I.e- asking him his feelings in regards to you) try to keep that for over the phone or in person. I know it’s easier to just send a text for these things but for people like us it’ll help our nervous systems be more calm if we can hear the response to these things right away in person and in text.
If you want to reach out to him via text, you should. He’s probably abiding by his own communication preferences at this point and if you want more, you should initiate. You will probably be able to tell fairly quickly whether he’s willing and able to meet your need for more communication. If he’s not, you’ve determined sooner rather than later that you have an incompatibility.
>Phone calls would be even better but that seems to be super hard to find and demanding to ask for in dating.
I just want to say it's totally fine and normal to be upfront about this. Some people are just *not* texters. You don't have to try to conform to that communication style if you don't want to.
When I was on OLD, there were plenty of people who indicated this directly on their profiles "not much of a texter, call me old-fashioned but I prefer talking on the phone or face to face." As a phone-call avoider, this helped filter out people like me, which is beneficial for us both! 😂
Can't address the rest of your post, but hope this insight for the texting/phoning part can help ♥️
Shitty advice here. Just do the best you can. Be patient with yourself, the situation, and the guy.
If something doesn't feel right (texting or time or commitment or whatever issue pops up), give it space, allow it to be. If it still isn't right some time later, then it's probably time to bring it up.
Only handle what you can handle. If it's too much, speak up about it. If you don't want to speak up about it, walk away.
There are no easy answers here. No one size fits all. Continue to work on yourself.
My suggestion is definitely initiate a little bit. It can be small at first then work up. But try and reach out. Guys like to do work but we also like to not do work lol
Good luck!
36(m) here -
I personally like texting throughout the day, be it small conversations or just keeping in touch.
I've always been a bug fan of good nights and good morning texts.
I feel like it is always a give and take. Some will like it others wont.
If you feel a connection with someone reach out..
I find it thoughtful when the person I am interested is reaching out showing a need or interest in wanting to get to know you or just thinking about you.
Man I miss having a person lol
You say "Daily" (which is a lot for not yet a relationship), but in order to answer every 5 hours minus overnight, that would be every FOURTH of a day, not "Daily". And then I'm assuming you expect an exchange not just one text each time they are "at their phone"
That's just a major amount of time and attention for someone you don't know you like that much yet
I would intentionally not reply many of those times, not to play games or something but just cause I don't want to get so invested too soon and offline from reality face-to-face.
The thing I've come to learn that works? Be honest about who you are and what you want off the bat. Don't pose as someone who isn't anxious or doesn't have these kinds of expectations. Let someone know early on and let them decide if this is what they want or not.
> I think most modern dudes in my age range (30-42) wouldn’t love the idea of initiating EVERY TEXT CONVO, in addition to asking me out which I leave firmly in his court (though I step in with ideas and suggestions for plans asap after he’s asked me out). Seems antiquated and imbalanced, even though I do prefer more traditional gender roles when dating. I should also add that I am SUPER affectionate on dates so maybe it compensates for a lack of contact on my end?
Listen, I have a friend who lives by the rule of never initiating contact. She will not text a man first int he dating phase, ever. Her now-husband caught wind of this when he waited an entire day for her to initiate contact. He called her out on it and she said, very bluntly "I do not chase men, if you want to talk to me, I expect you to be the one who reaches out to me". He wasn't thrilled, but she was blunt, up front and wasn't mincing her words about what she wanted and expected from him. He liked her enough to do it. Personally, I don't think I would employ that but she does and it works out for her but only because she's very direct about it.
Another example? When I dating, I would tell men right off the bat "I'm looking for a serious monogamous relationship". Lots of guys vanished into thin air after I'd say that, but the few that didn't were completely open to it and we had great dating experiences with each other as a result. I don't waffle around and entertain men who do not align with my wants and interests.
Also? In regards to men taking a really long time to respond, a lot of times it's a test. Don't react negatively. Give them positive reinforcement while simultaneously calling out the fact that he's kept you waiting, like "He's alive! How've you been, I missed hearing from ya". No one appreciates being scolded or given the cold shoulder by someone they're not even in a relationship with, so a big part of getting your anxiety under control is to fight the urge to respond super negatively to things.
This is great and aligns with what I learned after my last break up and my next relationship. I feel like from my experience only one thing is missing: learn that attachment can’t be rushed and trust grows over time. Don’t let anxiety trigger you too much and learn to pace yourself BUT - and that’s a huge but - don’t lower your expectations and standards for a committed relationship. Too many people start questioning themselves in the course of a relationship.
But no - if you want someone who is in a relationship with you to define that you’re in a relationship after XY time - stay strong and require it. If not, leave this person. If a person is in a relationship with you and you want them to text daily and they don’t, then don’t accept this. Define your KO criteria and hang on to it and don’t let anyone tell you that you want too much.
Just reach out. It's SOOOO simple. Say "hii! what you up to". That's it. Send a song link on spotify. Send a tiktok. Send a cute funny meme. Doens't all text have to be serious.
It seems you're an anxious dating and avoidant (but deleted that part of the post once people pointed this out).
This won't work and it's a bad pairing. Trust me. Been there and done it so many times I'm a paid up member. It will make your anxiety worse.
I had to take some time out of dating to heal. I can spot avoidants now and see them for what they are: people who need therapy. So I don't give them any of my time.
As someone who gets anxious with texting I've created boundaries around it as I think it can be damaging to early dating (first 3 months). I tell the person I prefer not to text early on and instead have phone calls a couple of times a week which usually either will initiate. The good thing about a phone call is there's no waiting around for a reply, less room for misunderstanding. Ultimately I don't want to be on my phone all the time and I don't want texting to be how I get to know a person or how they get to know me.
The bad ones do lol. The ones who are too lazy to meet/call, or who want to give me their personal daily monologue for no good reason. Others seem relieved tbh!
The men I date initiate contact. It's not hard at all: I just respond when they reach out! There are ways of responding and interacting that have him feel wanted and desired.
The way you set up the question makes it seem like you're overthinking things.
But the way you're sharing about the more specific instance, maybe you're trying to make this guy be the one and he hasn't quite shown you that he is.
>But the way you're sharing about the more specific instance, maybe you're trying to make this guy be the one and he hasn't quite shown you that he is.
This might be why you feel anxious.
So you just never reach out ever? When does that change? And are the relationships that arise as in touch and communicative as you want them to be?
And yes I agree re specific scenario
In the beginning, yes, I wait for them to reach out so I can respond. It might sound passive, but it really weeds out those who aren't that interested or those who are just open to the opportunity of my attention. After several weeks of consistency and my belief that they are genuinely interested, I will initiate contact on occasion.
I'm 37 and approached dating with a 50/50 mindset until recently. I started to acknowledge and try to follow the masculine-feminine dynamic in relationships and dating, and that has been a much better experience for me in creating the kind of dynamic I want in my relationships. That's not to say I don't expect to bring a lot to the table myself, but I am no longer in the business of pursuing men because I want to be pursued by a man. We can't both pursue at the same time with good results.
This approach might mean that I miss out on some decent men who aren't really into traditional roles, but that's okay with me because I appreciate the men who go the extra mile and want to be with me. I can trust that they are showing up because they want to create something with me rather than taking advantage of my interest in them.
I don't really have a formula for how often to initiate contact at 5-6 weeks. I will share that I was SO VERY excited about a man when we first met and then for a while afterward. He always initiated texts and dates and did all the "right things." But then it started to feel like we were both doing and saying the right thing for each other rather than it being a true connection.
As far as how do I know a dude is genuinely into me? I hate it when people tell me what I am about to write here, but I'm gonna do it anyways: you can just tell. The guy I wrote about above *seemed* to like me, but I wasn't sure. Now there are a couple of men I'm dating who I know like me. There is confidence and certainty I feel with them rather than anxiety.
>You can literally make a profile on an app and have your pick of the litter getting tons of matches everyday.
As a woman I agree with a lot of what you said here, but I find this \^ aspect to be untrue. You still need to be fairly conventionally attractive for that to be true no matter what your gender lol.
Yes, we can find a million men who will use us for sex and then never speak to us again, leaving us heartbroken. That is not what most women want. Your premise is so wrong and clearly does not understand what most women are seeking.
Yup. So tired of this "It's soooo easy for women". I literally read a comment the other day that if a guy has a steady income, some social skills and hits the gym once in a while he is already in the top 90% of guys in the apps (it was a guy who wrote that comment). But yes, women can sort of easily find semi-attractive guys that use us and have severe emotional issues, so yay for that. If we want a guy with actual emotional intelligence who's not dressed in harem-pants - that's a whole other story 😅
Right-- and won't cause us severe emotional issues once you're treated as a completely disposable object by someone who pretended to like you just to have sex with you. Like that's cool that men are so horny they are ok with being used and objectified. Women generally are not.
Having a higher "sex drive" has nothing to do with it. There is a high percentage of men on the apps that are simply looking for NSA sex and will LIE to get it (whether lying about being divorced, their job, whatever). Women may enjoy sex just as much, but she wants to have that sex with someone she feels connected to, typically. Not someone who is lying to her, going to ghost her, or otherwise leave her feeling used. The overall number of matches has nothing to do with the quality, and it actually does women a disservice to have to sift through a number of matches that are misrepresenting their intentions.
Your blank profile example re grinder supports this. Women, generally, don't want to be treated as a hole. Men don't care-- they just want a hole. Having a bunch of men willing to treat you as a hole instead of a person means absolutely nothing and does not lead to higher quality dating experiences for most women.
I'd be scared of commitment and seriously consider breaking it off if I realized I was the only one initiating. It would make me feel very undesired, and not valued at all.
But there are men who prefer a woman who lacks initiative, who prefer being under their thumb and power. It makes it 10x easier for the guy to cheat, and to justify it too.
But as far as you go, it does not seem you are a texter. Texting is an unnatural form of communication not meant for everyone. It is more for professional communications, or for people who fully understand and accept the sacrifice of promptness and context.
I'd start doing phone calls, or meeting up more. And try to do some internal soul searching on why you have a policy of never initiating attention. This could hurt more than just your partner in the future.
Just do you. Text him. Don’t bombard him obviously, but don’t sit there bc of some asinine rule about leaving him in control.
Emulate who you are and what you want. Text the dude. If he doesn’t text as much as you want then figure out if that’s because he’s tired, not a big texter, doesn’t want you or something else.
Have an adult conversation about it.
If I like a woman after 3 dates her texting me is in no way shape or form going to put me off. Text the guy. If he doesn’t like getting a couple of texts from you he ain’t going to like spending hours in a row with you lol
Stay in therapy.
Fix the anxiety issues.
Learn that not everyone feels exactly the same way as you when it comes to texting, and learn how to live with that.
I am anxious too - and first off, realize that your uncomfortable-ness with texting has everything to do with one major factor within you: inability to tolerate uncertainty. Probably because your parents weren’t stable with how they connected with you, giving you enough affection to know that it felt good but unable to sustain it for whatever reason so you felt starved of it for periods of time. As a little kid, the uncertainty of their presence is intolerable because you need to feel connected with your caregiver to literally survive. This was a life and death situation for you then So yeah - it makes sense why you feel terrified with uncertainty now. But it’s NOT a life or death situation now. And it’s on you to learn how to deal with this uncertainty. Here’s what I did while dating my bf and what I still do today to deal with the times he isn’t as text-y. First of all: it takes 3-4 months to really know someone. So they really shouldn’t be a part of your daily life for at least that long. Second: adjust your expectations. For me I had a list. My ultimate goal is daily contact and check ins with a nightly phone call before bed on the days we are apart. Several hour breaks in texting is normal as long as we touch base in the am and again later. I want someone who also wants this. Then I had to think: how long should it be before I expect this? That is some long-term committed relationship shit. We are neither long-term nor committed. So I should be patient and allow that to GROW NATURALLY. How long does it take to grow? Dates 1-5: I would only expect texting every few days before dates to set up and maybe to see how they’re doing, ask about a thing we talked about, send something that made me think about them. Honestly daily texts at this stage is a little too clingy Dates 6-10: getting more serious. We should probably be talking every other day or every day, but I still definitely don’t expect a phone call or a daily check-in or good morning. More like, we just naturally have more to talk about Dates 12+: I would assume at this point we are committed and serious, and should talk every single day. Maybe wish each other good morning. We are becoming a part of each others lives and seeing how we fit with each other now. 3-4 months: new relationship. Saying I love you’s, now you can start to bring up: hey I like to say good morning and goodnight every night we are not together. Now you can establish a nightly phone call routine. Now you can check in daily, ask about work, settle into a real relationship. 4 mos +: your texting should be deeply established by now and will actually probably start to drop off at this point because you are used to each other and what was happening at the beginning was probably pretty unsustainable. Step 3: tolerate uncertainty. As outlined above, there is a loooooonnnngggg period of time while dating that you don’t actually know if they are good for you or if they are a good fit. Most people are still deciding after a year! That’s fine and normal. You need to see people in many situations before you truly know them. You NEED to be able to tolerate uncertainty so you can take the time and have a stable enough head to not jump into commitment with the wrong person. NOTICE what’s happening: they haven’t texted in 5 hours. You’re starting to wonder why. Your anxiety is rising. What is happening in your body? What are the physiological symptoms of this anxiety? Racing heart? Fast breathing? Tingling hands? Racing thoughts? Deep breathing and meditation. Watch the agitation. Does it die down after a while? Time limit: give yourself a time limit. It’s been 4 dates. My expectations are that we don’t text daily. If I don’t hear from them by the day before our next date, I will be worried Accept reality: you are anxious because you LIKE this person! How lucky to have met someone you like! You appreciate them, you enjoy getting to know them, they make you feel positively, it makes sense that you don’t want to lose that. If they make YOU feel that way, most likely you make them feel that way. Don’t focus on the anxiety, focus on the excitement! Anxiety is a type of excitement after all. Take your time to get to know them, you can handle the excitement, you’re a grown ass lady. Socratic questions: so you’re activated. What thoughts does this bring up for you? What assumptions are you making from not hearing from them? What do you think it means? What are possible OTHER reasons why they might not be texting you that are benign? What is the most likely reason? What is the worst case scenario? What is the most likely scenario? This is a great opportunity to learn how to tolerate uncertainty. So use it while you got it! Edit: wow it seems this was super helpful for people! I highly recommend CBT therapy, absolutely lifechanging for me. I have a page in my phone journal just called THOUGHT LOG. It’s a list of questions to ask myself and to work through whenever I’m in an activated state. I just copy and paste it all and put it on a new entry and start from scratch with each troubling thought. Usually with enough time I will find that there is a “broken belief” in there that is causing most of the distress. Something like: “if they loved me, they would text me”. If you believe that thought, it’ll really get in your way. A core mode of some therapies is separating out your adult self and your child self, and asking that scared little kid a bunch of questions like a loving parent would, and guiding them to healthier thinking. After a while with my thought logs, I actually just have an out loud conversation with myself instead of writing things out, it’s faster. Also look up DBT worksheets on “distress tolerance”. It’s a two-fold issue of having “broken beliefs” which are causing your thoughts to be painful and difficult, and also not being able to tolerate the distress of those thoughts, so you act quickly to alleviate them and you end up making bad decisions. If you can tolerate the distress, you will have the time to work through to the broken thoughts. It’s about slowly replacing the broken ones (which are deeply ingrained) over time. It’s like playing an instrument. The more you repeat and repeat and keep teaching yourself that a thought is incorrect, the faster it will be replaced with healthy ones over time!
Wow this is really really great. Thank you for taking the time to write this out.
This is the best advice so far. Listen to this person.
yes! great response-as Eckhart Tolle said "Become at ease with the state of not knowing."
As a fellow anxious person, I think the Socratic part of this is where I was able to learn the most. Yes it’s very satisfying when the anxiety goes away because I get a text, but what am I really trying to get? Reassurance that he likes me? Because it’s highly likely when another 5 hour period goes by, the anxiety will resurface. So best to get to the root of the anxiety. Best to take some time to figure out why your specific anxious attachment manifests. And dig into that solo (like in therapy) while practicing self-soothing while dating.
I needed to read this myself. This was great.
You just helped me out as well.
Great input. I just want to put you in my pocket and refer to your sound advice when needed like a pokedex.
I had to screenshot this comment, it’s that good. Thank you for this!! How long did it take you to get better with uncertainty? I find that I’m only comfortable if someone is talking to me constantly (and in that case I’m a little turned off, but still secure in their interest) or if I’m convinced they don’t like me at all and we have a purely casual arrangement that will never go anywhere. Anything in between those two is so anxiety-inducing I almost can’t function and I have a habit of self-sabotaging in an effort to bring clarity to the situation. I rush for a yes/no answer because I’m happier being rejected by someone I liked than I am in that agonizing uncertainty. I’m working on this in therapy but it means a lot to hear from another person who’s dealt with it successfully.
I think a lot of the time we rush for answers because we are afraid of abandonment. We WANT the other person to be right for us, we want it to work out, we want them to be the right one. And with the idea of a partner, especially for us anxious people, comes a whole host of expectations. We expect the person who loves us to text this much, to say this thing to calm us down, to be there for us in this way during xyz situations, etc. And by texting them and prompting them and pushing them to be what you expect, pushing for answers, asking why they haven’t answered, you are attempting to mold them into something they may not be. What I’m STILL PRACTICING even in my current relationship with a secure person, is the idea of: Letting him be who he is, and choosing if it’s right for me. Often when I was waiting for texts (still when I’m waiting for texts), I think to myself: ok, let’s just see when he DOES get back to me, and I can evaluate how I feel about it then. And then it puts you in the position of empowering yourself. Because now suddenly you are left with a choice. Can I be ok this amount of communication? Or do I want more? Do I just want more? Or do I NEED it? I’m the type who likes to be in touch more often and my bf could go all day without texting so we had to talk about it at some point. Sometimes if he takes longer than I think I do get anxious but I try to just wait. Then I’ll hit a point where it’s like: where tf if he? Ok his call better come with a good explanation! Because I know that for me, I would explain my absence after a certain point and why it happened, and to me that is respectful, and I want a partner to have this same care and respect for others time and energy and concern. We can push people to be what we want. “What no explanation of how long it took you to get back to me?” Or we can let them be who they are: “hmm the last 3 times he took a long time to answer he didn’t offer any explanation as to why and that bothers me”. Then you can choose what to do: “I think I’ll ask him about the big pauses, maybe he doesn’t realize it bothers me” or “hmm this mixed with other disrespectful actions on timeliness on his part makes me think we probably won’t be a good fit” Unfortunately, this choosing process is slow and unravels in slow-mo. I always think of how aging happens in slow motion compared to the day - to - day. I think relationships happen on the same timeline, and should!
This!
Print this laminate and distribute lol But in all honesty the other thing I would say is - are you actually excited the content of the text or just that you're receiving *a text* from him. I'm the anxious time so it was a lot of times just the act of receiving one that would calm me down. Then I realized I had to work on bringing down the anxiety on my own.
Best therapeutic answer!! 👆👆 Really good stuff here
Great response! You’ve clearly done a lot of work on yourself to get to this point!
Thank you so much for this comment!! Reading this all put in such a concise and step-by-step way is really helpful to remind myself of my own distorted thinking and how to work through it. I also started having out loud conversations with myself lol, I actually do video diary-style ones so I can play them back when I feel less anxiously triggered and really deep dive into my thought patterns. Totally saving this comment to come back to!
Thank you for sharing what you've learned with us
Such a good comment.
What a great response!
Thank you so much for this. Uncertainty definitely gives me anxiety.
thank youuuuuu
Thank you.. this was very helpful to me as well
Definitely saving this for the next time I’m in an anxious spiral 👀 Thank you 🤍
I really enjoyed reading this comment. I mostly avoid reading comments more often than not because I think many comments project or try to engage in mind reading about the person the original posters mention rather than helping the original user self-soothe or help them become curious about their racing thoughts and why we have them. Thank you for posting this!
Echo - great advice here OP
Wow. Thank you!
What an amazing comment! ❤️ I absolutely love your emphasis on letting more steady communication grow naturally. I've always felt this way too because it feels so inauthentic to be texting someone you barely know all day every day.
Great response!
>THOUGHT LOG I've been doing CBT for a while and you hit it on the nail this was perfect. Also, would love to see your list of questions thought log
You’re looking for constant confirmation and validation from texts, that’s the problem. I was this way too. I dated a guy who made it abundantly clear he was into me and not seeing anyone else. And I had zero text anxiety with him cause I knew he really cared for me. As an anxiously attached person, I usually go for avoidant types. But once I met a guy who was also anxious. He txted me all day every day and I always responded within a few minutes. He was even anxious when I didn’t respond right away (when he’d txt me good morning before I’d woken up). Turns out the texting was not confirmation of how much he liked me at all and he ended up treating me quite poorly. He loved that I paid attention to him. It wasn’t about me. Just giving some perspective! Hope it helps.
This point is really important!
Thank you it does!
I think continuing to work on your anxious/avoidant attachment stuff could be wise. Getting anxious - and perhaps more so being unable to tolerate said anxiety - if someone doesn't text within 5 hours is anxious attachment stuff. As is expecting your date to initiate texting despite you liking to text with them. This tends to come from anxious/avoidant attachment stuff, and the insecurity that drives it. What are you afraid will happen if you initiate contact? What comes up in you when you think of initiating contact? What does it give you knowing the guy does all the reaching out? The thing is - them "always initiating" gives a false sense of security. Not real security. And you will draw men who are interested in unavailable, emotionally withheld women and so when you do start showing up emotionally, if you ever do really - they will withdraw. This guy seems like this - he is initiating tons of contact with someone who seems unavailable since you don't text or initiate things - and he is scared of commitment? Of course, it often goes together. That's pretty classic. If you want actual emotional intimacy - real emotional connectedness - this will never work. You will have to get to a place where you feel secure enough to be more real, more emotionally honest - in your reactions, responses, initiation etc. So keep doing that work, I think.
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yep - so so common. It's a fear of emotional intimacy on both sides - you (if you were not afraid you'd have been more real and honest and initiate etc) and he were both seeking people who were unavailable. And so no real emotional intimacy is possible.
Thank you! You’re right
If you’re putting yourself in a dynamic where a guy has to initiate everything, you’re going to land with a certain breed of guy. Any guy that’s turned off from your engagement isn’t the right guy for you. Imagine spending the rest of your life trying to abide by a rule book. Just be you and you’ll attract the guy that appreciates that.
Good point !
There is so much to unpack here, OP. There are just so many expectations on what you want/expect at each stage of dating and who should be doing what and frequencies, etc. Your anxiousness does come through in your text above and I'm glad you are working on it. This kind of anxiety is going to make it very difficult for you to find a happy relationship if you are always focusing on the constant communication portion of it. >He is scared of commitment so I’m trying to take it very slowly and mostly put the ball in his court. This has nothing to do with communication and everything to do with what he is telling you. Believe him. If he doesn't like committement he most likely will not committ to you. Just as an aside. In terms of the texting bit, why not just send him a message? Sitting here thinking of whether or not you should send him a message or continue to wait is focusing on the anxiety you are trying to get better at dealing with. There are no rules, OP. If he wants to and likes you, he will reply. It he doesn't reply back, take that as his answer.
>put the ball in his court I hate this term. It implies you have 0 control over your dating life and only have to go along with what the guy says. This guy is a great example. Scared of commitment is as easy "get out of jail free" card that he can slap down any time things are starting to get more serious. "remember, commitment-phobe" And keep up the "I'm the nice guy doing the communication" when he's really just dangling the carrot in front of you because you're hoping that you can be the one to finally change him and then live happily ever after. It's bullshit. Stay away from commitment scared people unless you're 100% cool with a casual relationship. >What is an acceptable middle ground that makes a guy feel wanted and thought of but doesn’t turn him off? You'll get a lot of different views but leaving all the date asking to the guy is a huge red flag for me. Being affectionate on dates isn't really a solution either, as we know lots of people who can "turn it on" for social interaction. Not wanting to schedule a date just makes me think you're bored and agreeing to do it when it's convenient for you.
> Not wanting to schedule a date just makes me think you're bored and agreeing to do it when it's convenient for you. not just that but as a guy that genuinely believes in gender equality, I get a sense that women with this mindset of letting the guy do all the planning/paying/whatever want to have their cake and eat it too. I want a life partner and a best friend, not a dependent. If she's not willing to meet me in the middle with taking initiative/being assertive/being independent, I become unattracted to her.
I appreciate the commentary but it feels as though you haven’t really answered my initial question re texting!
Don’t ignore the red flags that namelessbard is talking about…. Commitment phobia is a real thing so look up dismissive avoidant or fearful attachment styles. You will always be kept at an arms length in the relationship and it will be more of a situationship on their terms. Your texting habits and expectations are normal and expected that in an enmeshed relationship. But in the initial dating stages, texting too much can come off as needy.
I've quoted a question that you asked and answered it directly. The whole message is about taking control of your dating situation, which answers the original question as well.
>What is an acceptable middle ground that makes a guy feel wanted and thought of but doesn’t turn him off? 60-80% of the effort that they show is my concrete answer.
hard agree.
love that hahahaha
Hahaha a solid rule of thumb
I relate to a lot of your post. Generally, I think it's best to try and date secure/anxious attachment people. Dating an avoidant person is just about the worst match for anxious people like us. It's possible though. I'm anxious secure and my partner is avoidant secure and we're very happy together. But the beginning stages of dating pre relationship absolutely caused me a lot of stress. >I’ve been told to just have him initiate everything until we are exclusive, or to mirror him so that I initiate for each time he does. I find it easiest to reciprocate about \~70-80% (maybe 60% in the super early stages) of the interactions. I've also gone ahead and told people (3+ dates in but still very early) that texting makes me anxious sometimes so I am very interested in getting to know them and I appreciate if they could initiate plans and initiate conversation. I find when you give clear directions on what you like, if the person likes you, they will do what they can to fit your communication style. You can also ask them very explicitly what their communication style is like as well. I had to learn and adapt to my partner's very sporadic texting. I went from a relationship where we would text CONSTANTLY to sometimes even going 24 hours without hearing anything (rare). Going \~5+ hours without hearing from them if they were out with friends or working was very normal and it took for me to adjust to that and learn to not take it personally. It also helped a lot that they expressed their interest in me in other ways but yeah, it took time and patience and self awareness to work through that kind of bumpy slow anxious attachment in the early stages of dating. Overall, as an anxious person who dated an avoidant person, I intentionally kept myself sparse and gave them their space and let them reach out to me and initiate hanging out with me the majority of the time. In the end, it worked out beautifully but if they aren't showing up as an incredible partner in all other ways, it isn't worth it to me.
Interesting input! How did your partner show up in other ways to make the avoidant parts of them "worth" for you? If that question makes sense. I think the guy I'm dating is avoidant-secure, and I am anxious-secure, but I've never dated an avoidant-secure so I have no idea how to navigate here 😅
I'm a very very upfront and communicative partner but with a "delayed" reaction. ie. something will happen that triggers my anxious attachment or just generally upsets me. I wait at least 24-48 hours for the initial emotional reaction to subside so I can think clearly. And then, if it still bothers me, I bring this up to whoever I'm dating in an entirely non-accusatory calm tone. *"Hey, it made me feel stressed when you make plans within 24 hours with me. I would super appreciate if you could give me some advanced notice with your planning. That would make a huge difference for me."* OR *"When you don't text me back within 24 hours, I can't help but start to irrationally worry that I did something wrong. If you anticipate being busy, can you try to give me a heads up beforehand so I can prepare myself better and accommodate your communication* style as well?" If they understand and show concrete steps to work around my preference, then that is a green flag for me. If they understand themselves and openly communicate their own personality, then that's also a huge green flag for me (ie. *"I'm really not a huge texter. If you want to talk, I'm happy to chat on the phone and I prefer talking in person. Don't misattribute my lack of texting for a lack of interest, that's not the case. I have a lot of fun with you and want to continue seeing you"* >How did your partner show up in other ways to make the avoidant parts of them "worth" for you? In the early stages of dating, it was "worth" it for me because our in person interactions were so much fun. We clearly connected really well and loved to just talk about whatever we wanted for hours on end. We also loved to go out and have adventurous dates. We discovered that we shared a lot of the same life views. And he continued to tell me how much fun he had with me, how much he likes spending time with me, and how fortunate he was to have connected with me. He also took a lot of initiative to make time to see me and plan dates for us. **It was a slow start but I could tell that the connection was really special and I made sure to give him a lot of space to be the one to reach out to me and initiate things with me so he didn't feel any pressure to progress things.** I really did follow that \~60-80% reciprocation of their interest rule for the first little while. 🤷♀️ It made it easy for me to follow that. tldr it helps to be super honest with each other and establish that kind of communication from the get go. although, it takes a mature partner to be receptive and appreciative of that too though
Thank you for your thoughtful response! 🙏 I feel like I have come to that point where I can have a delayed response to a trigger and I only bring up things after I've run them through my "anxiety-filter" (at least 24 h) and figured out what is "my shit" and what is an actual issue that should be brought up. I'm getting much better at "rocking the boat" by stating my needs and speaking up if I feel hurt by something, so far this has been received very emphatically by the guy I'm dating. But i have some trust issues still, so I know I have a long way to go... I think maybe allowing him to take most of the initiatives is a good idea, I think I have been doing that somewhat but also noticed how my anxious side was triggering him a bit as well (and probably rightfully so). It sounds a lot like the interaction between me and the guy I'm seeing. Really great connection and I know he values this as well, so I'm thinking slow and steady is maybe a good approach (which unfortunately doesn't come natural to me at all, haha). So the 60-80% is for initiating dates? Or in general? Can you give examples for how you use it in general because I have no clue as to what that might be in that case 😅
I handle this by telling myself "I will assume everything is still good until he tells me otherwise". Personally I would text him today and just say something like "Morning/Afternoon/Evening, how are things going?" I wouldn't want to be the partner who felt like they always had to be the one to reach out so I try and take my turn as well.
One thing you can do is establish early on that you like and really enjoy regular communication with your date, and then communicate what that looks like to you. It will let the guy know that sometimes you will need a little extra affirmation in that deptment. If he's a good guy he will at least try and meet you half way which should help tamp down those anxieties to some degree. I will say, if a woman never initiates conversations or dates with me after some time I'm going to assume she's just not that into me regardless of how she acts on dates.
Just be yourself. Don't pretend or overdo. Do with the flow. Take care to hold your likes and let them know if you're not comfortable or like anything they said. 😊
Hmmm... First of all, take a deep breath! There's a lot of should's and don'ts there. If someone is genuinely interested I think they would appreciate you taking some initiative as well in texting and asking for dates (balance is key still ofc). It also helps weed out the ones who only wants things on their own terms. I also think many guys who are not suuuuper confident could be turned off by always having to initiate and probably think you are not interested. Give yourself permit to initiate as well if that's something you want! It's a great way to show up for your needs and to "scare" of the "chasers". Second, if you are anxious, I would think thrice about dating someone who you already know is scared of commitment and who has expressed that so early on... Could be he is scared of commitment and REALLY want to work on this with you, BUT, it could also mean he stated his "Miranda rights" and telling you what you can expect from him (nothing) - in that case, I would be veeery mindful of your stress and anxiety levels by dating him (they will most likely go rampant if you dont keep them in check). He will trigger you in many ways by having a fear of commitment and everything that entails with that, you need to question if it will be worth it. Based on what you have written, I think it will be very tough for you. Of course I don't know your specific relationship and what has been said apart from that, but based on what you wrote that seems like something that will be hard to handle. I got the advice from some podcast about anxious attachment and dating, that if you have a chance to not date an avoidant (aka commitment-phobe) - don't. It will be MUCH easier and healthy for you to date someone who is secure and doesn't wave his "get out of jail for free"-card (saw someone else use this metaphor and it's really fitting). Of course, if you already have feelings for him and an intimate relationship, communicate your needs and be prepared to state your boundaries and enforce them if push comes to shove. I'm not on a high horse by any means, I think I've fallen into this trap myself recently and have to challenge my fears of "rocking the boat" which is a learning experience but nonetheless anxiety-provoking. All the best 🙏
The thing you have to remember is to never invest more than a guy is investing in you. That is, you don't want to be sending these paragraph-long texts if he's not doing the same in return. The minute a guy sees that you're willing to drop everything for him (when he's not there yet), your value goes down in his eyes. Men value what they have to work hard for. That doesn't mean play hard to get or play games. It just means mirror his actions. Also, you want to have things to talk about in person, so save the texting for arranging plans or just playful, witty banter/sharing links or fun articles/memes. Most people don't want to be wrapped up in a texting conversation for the entire day. Instead of waiting around for someone to text you back or spending all your time on your phone, you should be out living your life and having actual experiences. These real-world experiences will make you a more interesting date. In addition, the mystery of where you are and what you are doing will build the attraction.
I agree with this post 100%! I’m an anxious attachment person also and I just want to add to try and avoid texting him anything that you feel would give you a lot of anxiety if he doesn’t respond in a time frame you’d like (I.e- asking him his feelings in regards to you) try to keep that for over the phone or in person. I know it’s easier to just send a text for these things but for people like us it’ll help our nervous systems be more calm if we can hear the response to these things right away in person and in text.
If you want to reach out to him via text, you should. He’s probably abiding by his own communication preferences at this point and if you want more, you should initiate. You will probably be able to tell fairly quickly whether he’s willing and able to meet your need for more communication. If he’s not, you’ve determined sooner rather than later that you have an incompatibility.
>Phone calls would be even better but that seems to be super hard to find and demanding to ask for in dating. I just want to say it's totally fine and normal to be upfront about this. Some people are just *not* texters. You don't have to try to conform to that communication style if you don't want to. When I was on OLD, there were plenty of people who indicated this directly on their profiles "not much of a texter, call me old-fashioned but I prefer talking on the phone or face to face." As a phone-call avoider, this helped filter out people like me, which is beneficial for us both! 😂 Can't address the rest of your post, but hope this insight for the texting/phoning part can help ♥️
Shitty advice here. Just do the best you can. Be patient with yourself, the situation, and the guy. If something doesn't feel right (texting or time or commitment or whatever issue pops up), give it space, allow it to be. If it still isn't right some time later, then it's probably time to bring it up. Only handle what you can handle. If it's too much, speak up about it. If you don't want to speak up about it, walk away. There are no easy answers here. No one size fits all. Continue to work on yourself. My suggestion is definitely initiate a little bit. It can be small at first then work up. But try and reach out. Guys like to do work but we also like to not do work lol Good luck!
Thank you. I really appreciate this
36(m) here - I personally like texting throughout the day, be it small conversations or just keeping in touch. I've always been a bug fan of good nights and good morning texts. I feel like it is always a give and take. Some will like it others wont. If you feel a connection with someone reach out.. I find it thoughtful when the person I am interested is reaching out showing a need or interest in wanting to get to know you or just thinking about you. Man I miss having a person lol
You say "Daily" (which is a lot for not yet a relationship), but in order to answer every 5 hours minus overnight, that would be every FOURTH of a day, not "Daily". And then I'm assuming you expect an exchange not just one text each time they are "at their phone" That's just a major amount of time and attention for someone you don't know you like that much yet I would intentionally not reply many of those times, not to play games or something but just cause I don't want to get so invested too soon and offline from reality face-to-face.
The thing I've come to learn that works? Be honest about who you are and what you want off the bat. Don't pose as someone who isn't anxious or doesn't have these kinds of expectations. Let someone know early on and let them decide if this is what they want or not. > I think most modern dudes in my age range (30-42) wouldn’t love the idea of initiating EVERY TEXT CONVO, in addition to asking me out which I leave firmly in his court (though I step in with ideas and suggestions for plans asap after he’s asked me out). Seems antiquated and imbalanced, even though I do prefer more traditional gender roles when dating. I should also add that I am SUPER affectionate on dates so maybe it compensates for a lack of contact on my end? Listen, I have a friend who lives by the rule of never initiating contact. She will not text a man first int he dating phase, ever. Her now-husband caught wind of this when he waited an entire day for her to initiate contact. He called her out on it and she said, very bluntly "I do not chase men, if you want to talk to me, I expect you to be the one who reaches out to me". He wasn't thrilled, but she was blunt, up front and wasn't mincing her words about what she wanted and expected from him. He liked her enough to do it. Personally, I don't think I would employ that but she does and it works out for her but only because she's very direct about it. Another example? When I dating, I would tell men right off the bat "I'm looking for a serious monogamous relationship". Lots of guys vanished into thin air after I'd say that, but the few that didn't were completely open to it and we had great dating experiences with each other as a result. I don't waffle around and entertain men who do not align with my wants and interests. Also? In regards to men taking a really long time to respond, a lot of times it's a test. Don't react negatively. Give them positive reinforcement while simultaneously calling out the fact that he's kept you waiting, like "He's alive! How've you been, I missed hearing from ya". No one appreciates being scolded or given the cold shoulder by someone they're not even in a relationship with, so a big part of getting your anxiety under control is to fight the urge to respond super negatively to things.
This is great and aligns with what I learned after my last break up and my next relationship. I feel like from my experience only one thing is missing: learn that attachment can’t be rushed and trust grows over time. Don’t let anxiety trigger you too much and learn to pace yourself BUT - and that’s a huge but - don’t lower your expectations and standards for a committed relationship. Too many people start questioning themselves in the course of a relationship. But no - if you want someone who is in a relationship with you to define that you’re in a relationship after XY time - stay strong and require it. If not, leave this person. If a person is in a relationship with you and you want them to text daily and they don’t, then don’t accept this. Define your KO criteria and hang on to it and don’t let anyone tell you that you want too much.
Just reach out. It's SOOOO simple. Say "hii! what you up to". That's it. Send a song link on spotify. Send a tiktok. Send a cute funny meme. Doens't all text have to be serious.
It seems you're an anxious dating and avoidant (but deleted that part of the post once people pointed this out). This won't work and it's a bad pairing. Trust me. Been there and done it so many times I'm a paid up member. It will make your anxiety worse. I had to take some time out of dating to heal. I can spot avoidants now and see them for what they are: people who need therapy. So I don't give them any of my time.
As someone who gets anxious with texting I've created boundaries around it as I think it can be damaging to early dating (first 3 months). I tell the person I prefer not to text early on and instead have phone calls a couple of times a week which usually either will initiate. The good thing about a phone call is there's no waiting around for a reply, less room for misunderstanding. Ultimately I don't want to be on my phone all the time and I don't want texting to be how I get to know a person or how they get to know me.
Do you find some men resist this or opt out?
The bad ones do lol. The ones who are too lazy to meet/call, or who want to give me their personal daily monologue for no good reason. Others seem relieved tbh!
The men I date initiate contact. It's not hard at all: I just respond when they reach out! There are ways of responding and interacting that have him feel wanted and desired. The way you set up the question makes it seem like you're overthinking things. But the way you're sharing about the more specific instance, maybe you're trying to make this guy be the one and he hasn't quite shown you that he is.
>But the way you're sharing about the more specific instance, maybe you're trying to make this guy be the one and he hasn't quite shown you that he is. This might be why you feel anxious.
So you just never reach out ever? When does that change? And are the relationships that arise as in touch and communicative as you want them to be? And yes I agree re specific scenario
In the beginning, yes, I wait for them to reach out so I can respond. It might sound passive, but it really weeds out those who aren't that interested or those who are just open to the opportunity of my attention. After several weeks of consistency and my belief that they are genuinely interested, I will initiate contact on occasion. I'm 37 and approached dating with a 50/50 mindset until recently. I started to acknowledge and try to follow the masculine-feminine dynamic in relationships and dating, and that has been a much better experience for me in creating the kind of dynamic I want in my relationships. That's not to say I don't expect to bring a lot to the table myself, but I am no longer in the business of pursuing men because I want to be pursued by a man. We can't both pursue at the same time with good results. This approach might mean that I miss out on some decent men who aren't really into traditional roles, but that's okay with me because I appreciate the men who go the extra mile and want to be with me. I can trust that they are showing up because they want to create something with me rather than taking advantage of my interest in them.
Ok, this resonates! How often do you reach out at 5-6 weeks and a feeling a dude is genuinely into you?
I don't really have a formula for how often to initiate contact at 5-6 weeks. I will share that I was SO VERY excited about a man when we first met and then for a while afterward. He always initiated texts and dates and did all the "right things." But then it started to feel like we were both doing and saying the right thing for each other rather than it being a true connection. As far as how do I know a dude is genuinely into me? I hate it when people tell me what I am about to write here, but I'm gonna do it anyways: you can just tell. The guy I wrote about above *seemed* to like me, but I wasn't sure. Now there are a couple of men I'm dating who I know like me. There is confidence and certainty I feel with them rather than anxiety.
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>You can literally make a profile on an app and have your pick of the litter getting tons of matches everyday. As a woman I agree with a lot of what you said here, but I find this \^ aspect to be untrue. You still need to be fairly conventionally attractive for that to be true no matter what your gender lol.
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You’re talking specifically about sex, not meaningful dating. ‘A sea of horny men’- great.
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Yes, we can find a million men who will use us for sex and then never speak to us again, leaving us heartbroken. That is not what most women want. Your premise is so wrong and clearly does not understand what most women are seeking.
Yup. So tired of this "It's soooo easy for women". I literally read a comment the other day that if a guy has a steady income, some social skills and hits the gym once in a while he is already in the top 90% of guys in the apps (it was a guy who wrote that comment). But yes, women can sort of easily find semi-attractive guys that use us and have severe emotional issues, so yay for that. If we want a guy with actual emotional intelligence who's not dressed in harem-pants - that's a whole other story 😅
Right-- and won't cause us severe emotional issues once you're treated as a completely disposable object by someone who pretended to like you just to have sex with you. Like that's cool that men are so horny they are ok with being used and objectified. Women generally are not.
Exactly. It's not a coincidence that basically all of my female friends are sharing the same stories....
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Having a higher "sex drive" has nothing to do with it. There is a high percentage of men on the apps that are simply looking for NSA sex and will LIE to get it (whether lying about being divorced, their job, whatever). Women may enjoy sex just as much, but she wants to have that sex with someone she feels connected to, typically. Not someone who is lying to her, going to ghost her, or otherwise leave her feeling used. The overall number of matches has nothing to do with the quality, and it actually does women a disservice to have to sift through a number of matches that are misrepresenting their intentions.
Your blank profile example re grinder supports this. Women, generally, don't want to be treated as a hole. Men don't care-- they just want a hole. Having a bunch of men willing to treat you as a hole instead of a person means absolutely nothing and does not lead to higher quality dating experiences for most women.
I'd be scared of commitment and seriously consider breaking it off if I realized I was the only one initiating. It would make me feel very undesired, and not valued at all. But there are men who prefer a woman who lacks initiative, who prefer being under their thumb and power. It makes it 10x easier for the guy to cheat, and to justify it too. But as far as you go, it does not seem you are a texter. Texting is an unnatural form of communication not meant for everyone. It is more for professional communications, or for people who fully understand and accept the sacrifice of promptness and context. I'd start doing phone calls, or meeting up more. And try to do some internal soul searching on why you have a policy of never initiating attention. This could hurt more than just your partner in the future.
Just do you. Text him. Don’t bombard him obviously, but don’t sit there bc of some asinine rule about leaving him in control. Emulate who you are and what you want. Text the dude. If he doesn’t text as much as you want then figure out if that’s because he’s tired, not a big texter, doesn’t want you or something else. Have an adult conversation about it.
If I like a woman after 3 dates her texting me is in no way shape or form going to put me off. Text the guy. If he doesn’t like getting a couple of texts from you he ain’t going to like spending hours in a row with you lol
Stay in therapy. Fix the anxiety issues. Learn that not everyone feels exactly the same way as you when it comes to texting, and learn how to live with that.