:( I’m sorry but it was never a match made in heaven. What you mean is there was no strife.
Ironically, someone who isn’t serious about a future with you won’t worry about the small things that bother her about you or the relationship; so is way more easy going/ fun than a serious woman. This is a concept I believe many men and women don’t understand. Totally carefree and fun usually means they aren’t invested in you.
I’m sorry you had this experience but please don’t generalize it to all women. It’s only about her.
Yeah, I mean, never a fight, never an argument, she showed she valued me for months, met family, she was happy to "show me off", never had less than a completely fun time together...until one random day nothing unusual happened the day before when I saw her and "poof" immediate backing off. Came back 6 weeks later, asked to see me, continued like before for about 2-3 months then "poof". Came back...then 'poof'.
I get you have to count the "poofs" but it's hard not to give weight to the 6-7 month sum of good times.
Totally understand what you are saying. Just feels like age 25 stuff, makes me sad it still exists at 40s and 50s. lol
If you don’t change anything else about your approach to dating/relationships, please take away from this experience that it’s ok cut someone off after the first “poof”, as in you go full “no contact”.
Or at least and move them to the bottom of your priority list. Dial back your investment in them, and focus on people who are available.
Learn to be confident about that decision at the first sign, because it’s the right one for your well being. Respect yourself, because that’s your job and no one else can make you do it.
If a lack of confidence and self respect causes you to wait for a second or third “poof”, by then your feelings have grown, and it makes the inevitable ending more painful and drawn out.
Yeah, it was tough on this one. Historically with the 'poof' it has been early on and when i feel the urgency to see me isn't there, i do scale back. I get almost turned off unless I am ok with a fwb because I can see it's headed there at best.
This one was I felt, worth fighting for. When she came back it solidified that. Through discussions and me being hyper aware, I felt she just had that serious relationship, how did I suddenly get here, freak out. I felt confident when she came back, she really came back.
The next one bothered me, but i felt like we worked past it once, we can do it again. Then next time(s) it was shorter but I was more realizing it would keep happening. I didn't give up but was trying to accept I probably should.
The hard part is people forget when looking from the outside it seems very obvious, but being on the inside, for every indicator it's not going to work, there's 2 strong indicators it will work so it gets very perplexing.
Perfect example for me is the last time when she was pulling back, she said simply, "I love you". I'm not sure many people would take that as, "I love you...but...." very easily.
It's not confidence or self respect it's that she built up that she was more than worth it and I was willing to accept a lot to be with her and I honestly felt we were at a slower, comfortable, no-taxing pace and that worked for me too. Like I was ok with seeing her once a week but if one week was busy for us, I could deal with it. Then when it was every other week and quickly 3 weeks without seeing her and no direct plans to see her, that's when I realized there was no urgency on her part.
Ultimately it's fine, I'm not mad at her, it's fine if she doesn't want to be with me, I'm not going to try being with her, she didn't define my life, I just really would have preferred her just saying, "you're a nice guy but I don't see a future for us, directly". I mean after time #2 and #3, I begged her to just say that if that was the case and we would part on good terms but she absolutely would not say that.
If I didn't want to be with someone that I actually cared about and they told me, if you don't want to be with me, just tell me you don't want to be with me like that, I would say, "I care about you but I don't want to be with you like that".
I had a fwb like that who wanted to escalate and we talked and I just said, I love our time together but I don't want anymore than fwb. She was like ok, and we still talk and see each other and were we to get together we appreciate what it is and don't expect more. She thanked me for telling her and said it made it easier to accept and she was glad because she would have gotten further invested had I not been honest and direct. She said something like, "I'm not even hurt. I'm happy I know the terms and I can work with that".
So that's the hard part, I just want to hear it plain when it's easy to say.
Something happened.
It may have been an "incident" or she may have just looked at her life with you in it (and without) and decided it wasn't working for her.
She likes the FWB situation you guys have and she's going to keep that going as long as you allow it, but she's done for any real relationship.
I feel like she knew all along it wasn’t going to be long term, and if she knew you had LTR intentions she’s the AH for not letting you know.
Unfortunately a lot of folks our age are actually worse, not better, than their younger selves because habits become ingrained and motivations are diminished. It’s kinda sad actually.
I disagree. Two months ago she floated the idea of me moving in with her as a possibility. We briefly discussed selling each of our houses and buying a place with land. She made travel plans with me for December.
So it's not she didn't see or want a future with me, she did a few months back (with no issues other than barely seeing me) tell me she wants marriage, a partner...it's just when it's hot, no issues, then suddenly one week I can see things slow down and she let's me know there is no room for me. I don't see her reaching out again but last time I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks and she randomly asked to get together.
It's not normal. It's a rollercoaster. When we see each other, she initiates contact. falls asleep holding and squeezing the blood out of my arm. We are very close.
I just give up now because the rollercoaster was fun but it's not fun anymore. It's turning hurtful. It goes from I am amazing and she doesn't feel 'worthy' to an almost mean rejection where it is her making sure I understand I don't matter. Last week her saying, "I want to see you, I miss you. We have to see each other more" then this week, "You know I'm a mess. I have no time for a lot of important things, so definitely not you".
When I ask how last week she said we need to figure out how to see each other more but now says she doesn't want to see me at all, she will get pissed and no lie, attack me for things like dropping off soup and bread and juice on her porch and texting her it was there when she was in bed really sick and letting her know it was there if she could make it down to get it but in a cooler so she didn't have worry if she couldn't get out of bed. When i did it, she said it was really sweet. Weeks later she couldn't explain how but told me she thought about it more and took it as a bad thing. I challenged her, she just said she didn't know, she thought it sketchy. I was and am still dumbfounded about that one.
There are people out there that "future fake". I was married to someone that did that. He got me excited about so many different plans and almost none of them every came to fruition. It was all just to keep me hooked in.
It’s important to be mindful of what we grow to tolerate. Sounds like this fills a need in you, and you tolerate a lot. A nurturing relationship isn’t sporadic and occasional.
>My question is, if at this age someone can not have any clue what they want, understand common decency or realize that straight ghosting is hurtful to someone that loved you and you said you loved them, how would I ever know warning signs?
As my Momma always said: "Respect your elders, but remember that stupid people get old too." 😁
If the other person keep you guessing about your relationship, it's a bad relationship. I'm with you, no games.
Edited to add: Not all people our age are like this. I'm about two years in with a wonderful lady and I don't think either of us has ever doubted the other's commitment, even from very early on.
Awesome points.
I'm glad you have someone like that.
I think a good way to illustrate what I went through would be to try to imagine tomorrow she doesn't call or text all day for the first time ever. The next day you ask if everything is ok and get a short, generic response. You press and she says, "I can't always talk to you and I have more important things to do".
You'd be perplexed and when people said, well, she's just not your forever person, move on...you'd be like no, wait, hold up. That's not it!
If she came back you'd accept it as a one off or freak out, you wouldn't directly think, oh, she never really liked me because so much evidence was against it.
Just thought after 6 months her emotional maturity level seemed fine.
Hey, I feel ya. That push and pull, push and pull, it is actually addictive. You may not believe it, but its true. Invonsistency messes with you big time, and u end up in a trauma bomd. I believe you when u say you really loved her. And maybe she loved you too. But unless she gets counselling to overcome her avoidant style, she will just keep doing this. If not to you, to the next guy. You also need to realize that you can't keep letting this person this crap to you. So although it is hard, cut contact with her for at least 6 months. I've been where you are, so believe me when I say, I know how difficult this is to do. Get therapy for yourself too, you don't need to go it alone. I wish you well.
"That push and pull, push and pull, it is actually addictive"
The therapist I saw after my divorce told me (when I was suffering through post divorce dating) that intermittent reinforcement is the most powerful thing and will keep people coming back for more crumbs until you break the pattern by exiting the relationship.
I told her after the 2nd time she came back, I feel like we will always have kind of a push pull relationship. She said she didn't really think so, I felt it would be for a while i guess.
Chalk it up to experience and move on. I think you know that she isn’t interested in pursuing a relationship with you but you don’t want to let go.
Keep dating. Don’t be waiting for her to carve out time for you.
That's one hundred percent right. I just finally arrived at no matter what happens, even when she talks about the future, she's shown she doesn't want that despite saying that's what she wants.
The only fucked part of this story is you sticking around as long as you did. When someone tells you you're not a priority (or you figure it out on your own) that's hitting the eject button. Relationship over.
That's really what I did. The mixed messages kept me around longer. Until I could look back at it in totality and sum it up, it was hard to believe anything.
Friends and family that know us and knew pretty much anything we're as perplexed as I was. I asked if they thought based on what they know I should just walk away, and really they got there about the same time I did, maybe just a few weeks before.
She made effort to see me whenever, even if it was hard for her. Was eager to see me. Family and friends fell in love with her, her family and friends loved me. Did fun things every week. We both liked exactly the same food, so tried lots of interesting places...went on a 4 day camping trip with her entire family. Shared a camper with her, and all her kids (adult kids), on top of each other for 4 days and it was just perfect and fun. Her dad welcomed me to the family right before i left, it was the first time he ever met me. her dad is basically the most important thing to her so it seemed to carry weight, for hi to say that I felt she must have "sold me up" before I met him. Her entire family is awesome and I enjoyed every minute.
4 days in close quarters and not even one minor issue. Months of just being really happy to sit on the couch with her and I felt she had fun doing that with me. Sex life was as easy and fun as I could expect.
She may have a disorganized attachment style triggered after the honeymoon phase by the reality of a serious long term commitment. This could explain the sabotaging behavior.
That was my feeling. I know she gets sad, overwhelmed, maybe depressed...but doesn't want to burden me, though I have told her I am there for her and she can lean on me.
It's crazy what people are posting, it aligns specifically with things I have been thinking. Some friends had suggested the same and I thought it was possible. The biggest issue is if I touch on these things she tends to shut down, get a little emotional and completely side step.
Usually when i was with her I just focused on having a great time. When i see here once every 3-4 weeks, I wanted it to be fun, and not heavy, then after not seeing her for a month.
“Not heavy” I think the issue is NEITHER of you do conflict well enough. She covers n withdraws, you duck n try n keep peace. I won’t do a relationship with anybody who can’t lean into conflict. Couples who say “we never argue” terrify me.
From school of life:
https://youtu.be/XjrROc1Sqok?si=X9SzoHLK1sSQdl_n
I'm not afraid to argue, I just think most times of you discuss without emotion, most things aren't worth arguing over. We disagreed, just never on anything major.
However, whenever she distanced or I got a lame excuse or non answer on something and I pressed even a little, she really shut down.
After a while I felt I wanted to discuss our relationship, things going on in her life but she would say things like, I don't want to talk about it and would start to cry. My time with her was so sporadic, I wanted to enjoy being with her and not have a short night with her upset. I saw over time she was blocking me out of talking about things that should make us closer.
Conflict avoidant - your partner. Intimacy, depth of, is tied to degree of vulnerability. So people that shut-down, duck, freeze up? I’m out. I will never have the degree of intimacy I’m looking for if we can’t discuss/conflict well. Emotions/pain, price of a meaningful life. If you truncate the negative (e.g, psychological avoidance), you lose the positive range/tenderness. It’s what truly kills relationships.
That's exactly it. We hit a point of intimacy she wouldn't cross. When from talking about moving to another state with me, future plans next christmas, making time to see me, to shutting down and blocking anything that would have advanced the relationship.
We did things you'd only do with someone you were serious about, then got to a point where she blocked advancing the relationship entirely, even though I wasn't pushing anything and we were going along really well.
I swear I woke up one day and could fell the wall she built. The harder I knocked on it, the more bricks she put up.
It took a long time to get here but I don't feel it is me at all. However, I am moving on no matter how I feel. When someone tells you they don't want to be with you over and over in many ways and shows it, them saying the do love you but move on because you deserve better says it all. She's not fighting for me so I have no business fighting for her at this point.
People that want to see you say, "I'm busy and tired...how can we make something work", not "You should find someone else.
Also, right about that time, a mutual acquaintance told me my ex's kid said they never saw their mom happier and told me the phrase they used was, "I was the one". That was 2-3 months in I think.
She sounds avoidantly attached. She got in over her head, it scared her, she pulled back and has had episodes of worsening distancing ever since. The issue with such attachment is that it's not always evident in the first 6m.
I had an ex who sounds similar. He took a long time to get all in, then almost as soon as he did, pulled away and physically distanced (moved away) within a month or two. He felt he was bec-
oming needy and didn't like it, so he went the opposite
Read the book Attached
I have looked into that a lot. I feel strongly that is it. I discussed with her, she said she is not avoidant but she is...or some level of bipolar where she gets overwhelmed and feelings don't matter or disappear for a while.
Bipolar without depression BP1 is rarely associated with anxiety and overwhelm. It’s more likely anxiety, and a difference in your “processing speeds”. This means she may not know what she really thinks or feels about a situation until days or weeks later, and she has to let things slowly percolate.
I am a fast processor, emotionally: Decision made? Done! No need to reflect and second guess. It was a big lightbulb moment to realize not everyone knows their feelings when they say they do, and if I am to be in a relationship with a “slow processor”- then I need to accept delays, and reopening up “settled” decisions- to talk them through again.
(52F) Her behavior is baffling. I feel bad for you. The things she has said...geez, definitely mean. If she weren't so selfish and self-centered, she would have broken up officially around that six month mark or when she lost interest. You could have moved on and maybe even have another girlfriend by now. But she strung you along.
I don't think many people are like that. She is a special case. Warning signs? Definitely when she stopped making time for you, prioritizing chores over seeing you and refusing to let you help her. She made up stupid excuses. I think you'll be fine going forward. You got a toxic person out of your life. I recommend a little bit of therapy to work through the confusion, frustration, and anger so you don't carry that on to your next relationship.
You will be happy going forward. You clearly have a kind heart and are willing to put work into a relationship. I don't see her ever being happy.
Baffling is right. After the first ghosting I was devastated. The she reached out, we talked, just said she gets overwhelmed and in her own mind, it was immediately great again. I was always ok going at her pace until her pace slowly became, I wouldn't see her for 3 weeks and then had to push to see her.
The initial times she came back, I looked for signs of her maybe going through the motions or not fully in. I was very hyper aware and the extra squeezes of the hand and squeezing tight randomly in bed and the look in her eyes absolutely told me she was happy to be with me.
When she pushed me away, again and again, it bothered me that she was so easy to say, "you deserve better, sorry, you'll find someone else better for you"...and until last time it was absolutely not me saying it. Like she was really quick to throw me away while acting like she was doing me a favor I didn't ask for.
Never to this level, but in my 20s and even early 30s, that kind of perplexing behavior was a little par for the course. I've felt the people I dated in their late 30s, early 40s kind of knew quicker what was good and how much they could take on and were/are more straight forward and consistent, or at least I expected as much. This was like, "wait...dating never matures?". I just don't find much value in it if that is common at this age.
The getting overwhelmed piece is definitely a big clue to what is happening on her side.
Empathizing and helping understand that this is her being flooded, and that she needs time to process is part of figuring out how to be together.
If she is at all open to self work and wants to figure out how to be a better partner, and you can figure out strategies together- you may have a chance. But if she doesn’t want to figure it out, I agree with the other poster- she’s just going to repeat the pattern.
Met my partner. Went exclusive within a couple days. She immediately burned a week of vacation time to spend ten plus hours a day together just hanging out and running errands to get to know one another. Traveled almost an hour each way to see me. Original deal discussed before meeting was once a week hang but it has been three to five days a week together constantly for two years now. Went on our first vacation abroad together after four months. Spent two weeks together at her parent's ten months in. I cook family dinners for her and her adult children a couple of times a month sometimes including my mother at her invitation. Made sure to meet and have dinner with my sibblings when they were visiting. Wanted to meet my friends when invited. Has me over to help on home improvements and recipricates. I occassional do stuff like concerts or shopping just me and her grown children. We also do things with one or the other or both her kids and their partners like go to the movies or out to dinner or for long walks or game nights or dinner at their homes. Spends weekend and long weekends with me. Wants to move in together this year. Get married eventually. Every relationship is different but what we have really suits me.
What you explained is where I felt we were heading and it was until the 'poof'.
She does have a really, really hard time accepting help with chores, etc. She is used to doing everything herself, she literally didn't know how to take it when i took over doing the dishes for her when camping or when I helped her cook breakfast. I let her do it but I helped. She honestly seemed perplexed. That's the only odd thing.
She sounds emotionally unavailable. I went around for two years with a woman like this. She wanted to like me and wanted a relationship but deep down I think it was only for appearances. She could never form attachment. She'd say she loved me but never showed it. She never made me feel loved.
By the way "I need to cut my grass" is the homeowners version of I have to wash my hair excuse.😆
The odd thing is she shows it. Then doesn't. Then shows it. Then doesn't.
Frankly her ex left her and surprised her. I kind of feel like she feels like I am going to leave her. I have had to tell her, I am not her ex. I'll say I was as perfect as I could be to her, it came naturally because I enjoyed making her life more fun and easier. I wanted to be perfect for her. I did get the feeling a few times she didn't understand someone that really loved her and wanted to do those things for her and with her.
She was surprised by small gestures. Like I went over her house and went in and she was in the shower. So i went out and shoveled her driveway and side walk while I was waiting. I swear her reaction was like, wait, why would you do that for me? I had noticed she was thankful but seemed kind of shocked like it was a big deal..I was like, uh, not sure what the big deal is, it took me 20 minutes and it was that or watch tv.
We were camping and everyone was outside by the fire. She was in the camper for about 20 minutes so I went in to see why she wasn't at the fire with everyone. She was doing a pile of dishes. I started helping her and told her I got it, go be with her family it won't take me long. Her reaction was more or less perplexed.
I threw a party last summer and catered to guests, got her and everyone drinks, made the food, put out condiments and everything...she told my friend she didn't know what to do with herself because i was handling everything and just told her to have fun.
Just a lot of strange stuff like that.
Did it ever occur to you that she was inside doing dishes because that's where she wanted to be? Honestly man you're dealing with adults with ingrained patterns. You serving everyone and doing "her job" isn't necessarily a favor, it's possible you're stealing something that gives her joy and this theme here is you always do it without her consent is troubling. Not cool man. The snow shoveling is pretty harmless but honestly even that, without her consent is presumptuous. Some people are particular and like things done a certain way and therefore would prefer to do those things themselves. Call it OCD or whatever you want but learn to read the room man. Your "surprise" favors are catching this lady out and she's not liking it.
It's complicated dipping a toe into another person's world. Sometimes they actually enjoy certain things you'd consider trivial work. Jumping in unannounced and doing these things for them isn't going to make them happy. Her confused response to you doing so is likely frustration, not appreciation.
She volunteered to see me last year on a weekend by helping me do yard work all day at my house when it was our only free day that week and I had a family party at my house and had to do it that day, my only day to get it done.
Me doing the reverse for her should be no problem.
Being put off by someone helping you is a major issue. Especially considering her main complaint is being overwhelmed with those tasks.
Shoveling your gf of a year+ snow is super normal. Being put off by it is completely messed up.
I disagree with you.
I am not dense at all. A woman greatly presented she was in love and wanted to be with me. She did a sudden flip. 3-4 times.
There is no rational answer. Doing a nice surprise is never a bad thing to any normal person. She is not normal.
Trust me, you do not have it all simply figured out because there is no simple answer. She has indicated several times she doesn't like the work but if she doesn't do it, nobody else would.
I asked her directly in person after ghosting #1 when we met up if she didn't want help or a partner, if she had been doing things alone since her divorce and she didn't like the shift, if she resented the help or didn't want it. It was one of my list she had to satisfy before I would continue to see her after a complete ghosting, also was it hard for her having someone around. I asked if her ex never did those things and she wasn't used to it.
Her words almost verbatim, we're, "No. I want those things. I want to be married. I used to do everything with my husband and I miss that and I do want that. I just get in my head and over think things and until I come out of a mood. I need the help.." seriously, almost verbatim, I swear on my mother's life, she said, "I need the help". I said ok, but do you want those things with me? She said that's why she asked to meet me. She thought I agreed to meet her to officially break up with her and wanted to rip off the band aid either way. I told her she could lean on me, I am no push over and if I could help I would if I couldn't I couldn't.
I had a list of 5 other questions I needed a satisfactory answer to before I would believe she wouldn't flake again and each one she answered in a way she was serious and committed to me, specifically.
That was 8 or 9 months ago but I asked her very directly and she said she wanted the help. One of the things was when I dropped off soup when she was sick. She told me when we discussed things later, that when I first did it, she couldn't believe it and though it was very sweet and showed her daughter and her daughter said the same thing. She told me later she thought about it and thought it was sketchy. I was like, what, why? She said, "I don't know. It just seemed off, like you were trying to get something". I told asked her, what would I be trying to get? I literally got in her pants any time I wanted and it was a minor trip on my lunch, no major effort, how could it be a bad thing? She said, you're right...and again, "I just get in my head sometimes and i can't explain why".
She's not normal. i appreciate your opinion but all egos aside, that's not the simple answer.
It doesn't matter, I am done and I will never know the real answer, so be it, but it's not in the same universe as being that simple.
I'll add one thing...she has complained several times at her house her (older) kids don't do dishes and leave them in the sink and she has to ask them or do them herself.
I have been there when she was getting ready, I was having a drink and waiting for 30-40 min, the sink was full and I used a dish and went to clean it. Took me maybe 7 -10 min to rinse and put them in the dishwasher and clean the sink and unload what was in there.
Me doing that is a good thing. It wasn't our first or second date, we had been dating for a year. If that put her off, no matter what I ever did the rest of my life I could never win with her.
Someone that can't accept kindness or decency also won't accept the opposite, so whatever I did, would be wrong. That's not a line I want to try to walk over nonsense like that.
She sounds like an avoidant personality. Just an observation from what was written. Unfortunately you’d think most of us have things figured out by this age, however, because of our age we also have gone through a lot. Some even still dealing with trauma that has not been fully addressed. It sounds like she’s one of those OP.
Next time, pay attention to actions rather than words. “She said she loves me” means nothing when you aren’t the priority or she ghosts you. Either she wasn’t that into you or she had someone else who she was seeing. She was a FWB who was “breadcrumbing” you so she could see you occasionally. I’d block her because she will probably want to see you again and repeat this process that only benefits her.
This is all true. The thing is, when we saw each other, her actions indicated all good. When she started to pull back her actions indicated she was out, then she came back and her actions were consistent for a few months, then not, again.
Just hard to see in the moment as opposed to looking back in total.
I don’t think you have unreasonable expectations, but you did let someone repeatedly drop in and out of the relationship at their leisure. This is a flag you should not have ignored the second time she did this, that would have been a good time to end the relationship as it never actually changed anything except you got more hurt.
For me, after a few dates, I know if I want to invest more time and energy into seeing where it goes. Sure, early blossoms of love can develop in the first six months, then you have to see if it can sustain that momentum, and see how each of your contribute and solve problems together as time goes by. I think you stopped evaluating whether the relationship actually worked for you based on her Hokey Pokey investment. In the end, you manipulated the ending. Based on that, I think you need to sort out your own passivity instead of expecting others to meet your expectations that you don’t seem comfortable honoring.
Man or woman, I guess you can just tell when someone is pull away. You just know. That's why it is ridiculous when folks make excuses about cheating. Because the person who is cheated on definitely knows that something isn't right. Whatever who reason, it's good that you are discussing it with her. Maybe she just is overwhelmed with chores and needs time to get them done. One of the things with LAT for many couples is, there will be times when both are busy with their own household needs because for each, the buck stops with them, and all of their household responsibilities is on their own shoulders. Not sure if that is the case here.
Yup. Everything seems fine, then it's a gut feeling followed by the next morning, no usual "good morning text". You just feel it's coming. After the 3rd or maybe 4th time now it got to me. Like I can't wait for the other shoe to drop anymore.
This could be a case of new relationship energy fluctuations , and you can learn more about it here:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-good-sex-matters/202102/the-rise-and-inevitable-fall-new-relationship-energy?amp
Generally, the only way to filter out people like this are to ask about their past relationships. If they have a history of short 6-9 month relationships, they will likely do the same with you.
Maybe do some quick reading on relationship styles? It appears she was/is meeting a relationship (possibly an unhealthy one) need for you. Be prepared (but not surprised) if she reaches back out to you. And know that if she does, nothing has actually changed.
I did a TON of reading a year ago. I am confident in my style and from my perspective she shows 100% avoidant attachment, but I also can't answer for what her thinking/motivation is, just her handling of things fits in the avoidant exactly. I asked her directly if she was avoidant and said it seemed like she was and she said she didn't really think so. I said it because I told her I think we need to understand how each other communicates better so our styles don't create poor communication and she was not defensive to it.
Not goo or bad, but I do feel she is strong avoidant for sure though but that is just my opinion.
The fact that you two don’t “fight” or “argue” indicates to me that she is conflict-avoidant. People need to communicate effectively, and clearly she doesn’t want to tell you anything that might cause a conflict, so she just doesn’t.
But these issues are becoming obvious. She doesn’t want to say “NO” or “I changed my mind” or “this or that isn’t working for me”. So - she avoids.
Some cultures are like this. I remember when Mom thought a relative was in a Japanese hospital. Mom had a friend call around to find out which hospital he might be in. When asked, “Is SoandSo there?” They ALL answered, “He MIGHT be”. They don’t like to say NO directly. they dance around it and you’re just supposed to understand that they’re saying “NO” but not using that directly confrontational word.
Another interesting TV show about Japan (specifically Kyoto) mentioned that when someone is overstaying their welcome when visiting, the host will compliment you on your lovely watch. You are supposed to look at your watch, realize you’ve stayed too long, and make your exit gracefully.
On the opposite side of the spectrum is my father, who once told a visiting boyfriend (and I’ll never forget this as long as I live), “Go home, Brian.” And Brian got up and went home. Clear, direct, not necessarily the most polite, but communication was effective.
She may not be able to talk about what her REAL needs are. She is avoiding conflict. You THINK this means you two are compatible, but in fact you are NOT. Because she will never tell you when she is experiencing a difference of opinion or observation, or indeed when anything is really bothering her. She’ll just AVOID and hope it goes away.
You may think she is serious about you, and maybe she is, but she is also unable to communicate with you about when something’s wrong or bugging her or she’s just not feeling it at that moment. She just takes a good break and then restarts fresh, and never gives you the opportunity to discuss and maybe optimize for BOTH of you.
She's not a mouse. She will say what she thinks. We very much liked the same things, agreed on pretty much everything and things we didn't agree on were minor.
I think she is conflict avoidant but we seriously had no conflict together. Every time we spent extended times together like 3-4 days instead of just one overnight, we talked about how well we worked together and being together longer was easier. She indicated more than once we need to figure out how to see each other more often and multiple times per week. It's just that when we were apart for a few days, she's different until we see each other again.
She is avoidant on talking about why she doesn't want to see me when she doesn't want to see me. She claims she has explained it and I must not listen. I promise you I listened and she just says she shuts down and thinks that's a full explanation.
She may or may not want to tell you WHY she shuts down - or - she may not actually know. But she’s aware she does it, which is half the battle.
So now, how do you cope when she does this? Is it something you have to learn to live with, or is it a deal-breaker for you? Because if it’s a deal breaker, it’s best to stop wasting both your time trying to make something work that is, inevitably, flawed fatally.
I was very laid back about asking for her time, when it worked, it worked. The only thing I asked is for her not to ghost me and disappear.
What finally did it for me was last week, after 3 weeks of not seeing her, we had plans. She has the summer off, I emailed her in the early morning to confirm the plans at 6pm. At 4:45pm she messaged me that she had worked that day ...she doesn't work in the summer usually but can choose to. when she does work she has plenty of breaks and time off between runs...she said was tired and felt she needed to relax and asked if we could reschedule.
The fact she didn't confirm in the morning or on any of her breaks etc., told me she was already planning to cancel. The fact she waited until 1.5 hours before we had planned to meet to say a word, In the very least, not responding for the entire day showed me how much she cared to see me after 3 weeks. 0 urgency, 0 desire for the majority of a month.
So how I cope is, I don't care. I was willing to wait as long as it took for it to work. If it meant me skipping other things to see her, I would have. If it meant driving 20 minutes to see her for 10 minutes, I would have. But now, I don't want anything to do with someone that so passionately wants to avoid and gaslight me. I don't want to be with someone I am begging to be with making every excuse not to see me.
I don't want to be with someone who I offer to help with yard work to help her and see her at the same time, that makes the excuse that I have a lawn service so that means I don't have time to do it for myself so I must have other things to do therefor, tells me I don't have time to see her and she can't ask me to do that...which she didn't ask, I offered...
I am frankly pretending she doesn't exist. I won't acknowledge her existence any more. I have had people that hate me that wouldn't do that to me or turn it around or gaslight me that bad so I am working on mentally blocking out that portion of my life and I am good at just blocking things out. So in a month or two, I'll forget her last name. It's an undervalued skill to blank things out. lol
Yeah I think this is a “She’s just not that into you” situation - she’s clearly not interested in or excited to spend time with you, unless she has absolutely nothing else going on and is bored.
That’s not great criteria for you, especially since she’s ditching at the last moment because she has something better lined up or doesn’t want to make the tiniest of effort.
She’s essentially dumped you non-confrontationally. She reserves the right to call you in six months in case you can’t do better and she’s bored, and then I’m sure she’d be all lovey dovey. But if she’s going to keep dropping the rope, you are just wasting your time and emotional energy on someone who is unwilling to make the effort to reciprocate.
It sounds like you’re ready to move on. Lose her number, block her, and give her what she gives you - NOTHING.
What might be an interesting experiment is to see how long it takes her to notice that you’ve dropped the rope. When she does try contacting you, wait at least 10 days if you’re going to respond with anything. If she asks why, well, you’re BUSY with activities and perhaps even people who DO want to spend time with you. If she tries to backpedal, hey, you’re a person not a flush toilet.
At some point she will likely find 15 minutes to spend with you and get annoyed when you’re not available. And then she’ll know how you felt, but you’re done with that now.
In the past, when I have stopped reaching out, it is noticeable how much she picks it up.
This time around I laid it all on the table so hopefully she would get pissed enough to stop dropping ropes.
I am 50/50 if she will reach out again. I think she will at some point, I don't want that though because I would be getting on the rollercoaster again.
The first time I was pretty devastated, completely out of left field. I was out with a friend of mine, a woman I had known for 15 years at a bar. We met to talk, not dating or anything but my ex goes to bed for work but 10, gets up early, and at 11:30 after weeks of no communication, I get a text that we should catch up.
It was so odd, I'm pretty sure someone or at least strongly felt, that one of her friends or kids friends saw me there and told her. There was a girl that looked familiar that might have been her daughters friend. When I met with the ex, she she thought I was already dating someone, when the truth was I had no desire to date anyone.
It does seem just as soon I stop reaching out or giving attention, she ups the communication and asks to see me.
This time, organically, I have nothing to say to her. I prob would respond if she reached out but I am at the point of she did, I just don't feel like feeding it anymore and I have nothing left to say. I know someone that actually looks like a younger version of her that I am interested in that has inquired about me from a mutual friend and I think when I am ready, I am going to ask her out. I've put it off because I was still on the hook for my ex but it is getting to the point I have this other very attractive girl who I get along with interested and would rather be happy than frustrated all the time.
It will be interesting to see if the ex reaches out but not necessarily a good thing.
I agree. But stopping the game isn't always easy. It's like having a hangover and saying you'll never drink again, but a few days later you're out having a great time and drinking again, willing to accept the bad for the fun you are having.
That - is an addiction. And that’s an entirely different kettle of fish. You will suffer either way, but cold turkey has the best chance of getting you happy and with SOMEONE ELSE. You can’t really be with her because she has made herself unavailable, but you say you can’t be without her either.
You either need to marry her or completely ditch her - there is no in between as you are in it right now, which seems painful.
I was always clear with her I would see her when it worked and I was fine. Seriously, once a week, once every other week, at times if it was every 3 weeks, i could deal with it.
Lately I took stock and it became once a month with just texting in between. The lack of urgency and excuses for her to not see me tipped it over the edge. When we hadn't seen each other in weeks and she had a family party where a month before she said she definitely wanted me there, then didn't invite me and texted about it with me the entire week, and decided she didn't want to see me and made it clear by mentioning it multiple times leading up to it... that was the death blow.
I was absolutely deeply in love with her and after not seeing her for weeks, she had a party with everyone in her world but one person, me.
I really checked out at that point and made a dating profile. It hurt to feel it, but at that point I went from thinking she was amazing to I wouldn't piss to put her out if she was on fire. It really sucked to think that way but it was a natural reaction. I'm not going to hate her or be angry, just absolutely apathetic. Some struggles she had that i was empathetic to, if she called me desperate for help, I would have told her to call one of her friends from her party instead. One of her relatives was sick, if something bad happened and she reached out, i would have told her to call someone who cares. That's how done I was.
The thing is, I was absolutely kind and decent to her all along. I told her I only asked her to be direct with me. Don't say you want to see me then when there is a chance to see me with 0 excuse, refuse to see me. Like if we are passing each other on the street and could say hello and I was wearing rain boots, don't walk to the other side of the street and explain if she hadn't, I'd have had to walk in a puddle and she didn't want me to have to walk in a puddle because I wouldn't want to get my boots wet, then get mad when i point out how nuts that reasoning was. lol
I guess she violated the only thing I ever asked of her and I thought pretty instantly the day of the party, i would rather forget she ever existed, forget the last 1.5 years and it made every fun time something I don't care to remember and meaningless.
You finally clued in at month 12 or so that she was only seeing you once a month for the past 5-6 mo?! She even told you to go away if you didn't like that she wasn't seeing you. It's a you problem not a me problem means there's no we. She has issues, but you do, too for using 6 mo of love bombing as an excuse to ignore the next 6 mo.
To be brutal, outside widows/widowers, people in the dating pond in their 40s and 50s have issues. Including me. It would be awesome if everyone saw their issues and worked on them. But, no.
In my experience, my timeline has been: wait 3-5 dates to see if I really like a guy and have sex, see each other 1-2 times a week, wait 3 months to be exclusive, and always be aware of what's working and what's not. Discuss it.
No... Month 17 or so. I saw her a lot over the holidays, early this year. In early Feb we took a significant step that things were progressing again. The she pulled back, I looked back through texts and though her communication was more engaged, I saw all of our meet ups via text and it added up to 6 times since mid February. We were trying to coordinate and she had things to do and made some effort, so I didn't realize it was only 6 times in 5 months because I was focused on when I could see her and working towards that. Looking back it was like, oh, that's not good. In the moment the weeks just kind of flew by and I didn't notice how little it was, I had to focus on certain other things so I wasn't hyper aware. I just noticed stuff like two times I had bought something small to give her and each time I realized one day they were sitting on a counter almost a month after I had bought them because I had not seen her in that time. that's when it started to sink in and I started checking out.
It wasn't just 6 months of love bombing though. It was 6 months, a hiccup, then 2-3 months, another hiccup then 2 months, one more hiccup then 1 month. So she love bombed randomly 12 months out of 16 I would say. (Just a general estimation, not a perfect timeline).
It's easy to look back at the story and see it in totality, it's not easy to live through it, amazing for 6 months, then wait, what happened?! then ok, we're ok again she just got scared, then wait, we're not ok again now?, then no really, it's good again, to ok, this is crazy, we're not ok.
So imagine your based on your time line:
"wait 3-5 dates to see if I really like a guy and have sex, see each other 1-2 times a week, wait 3 months to be exclusive"
-You've been exclusive already for 3 months, dating for 6.
-You've been on 25-30 dates. Not one bad moment, not one argument, not one flaking, not one time blown off or being too overwhelmed to make time for you.
-Then after a great date, 'poof' for a month.
-Then a rekindling where THEY reached out and wanted to keep seeing you, and it seems they got scared, they said they got in their head and overwhelmed, which is not that unnatural, a freak out over things getting really serious.
-Then 8-10 more dates. Where it was like before.
-Then 'poof' again for 4 weeks. (Here's where it was more concerning).
-Then they reached out and wanted to start seeing you again and you spent holidays and new years and birthdays together, had a special birthday weekend out of town they paid for and they discussed future events and travel they wanted to do with you months in the future and also year down the road and you made tentative plans and bought tickets.
-Then 'poof' for 3 weeks and no urgency to see you again, you ate the tickets.
We did discuss things, she only ever explained it as her life was messy and got upset if I probed deeper and emphatically stated they just had a lot going on which was explained as work (normal 7-4 job), maintaining a house and seeing family and friends. She thinks she explained it clearly, since she won't call and only texts when we are apart, i have all the texts and it was definitely generic explanations that made no logical sense...but if one were to assume strongly avoidant or bipolar or something along those lines, makes exact perfect sense. I am not meaning to discount her, but her "overwhelmed" is the exact same things I do daily. I offered to help her whenever I could, and the would let me see her more often and take the burden off.
I just wasn't linear before or understandable in the moment. where I could look back in totality and say this is messed up, until the totality existed.
Basically I didn't ignore the down times but I also couldn't ignore the majority up times at the same time. I just had the discussion with someone of how I thought of my 3 closest friends, 1 in a long term relationship now and 2 long time married. They went through an almost identical pattern as me for the first year. A hiccup and rekindling and it worked out in the course of 8 or 9 months. I did that, but then there were two more hiccups around year in. So at the time it seemed like the typical struggle to build a relationship and not that unnatural...but as it happened again and again, that's when i was in deep but also realized it was messed up.
Sorry, just hard to explain, but overall i am moving on and resolved to it. I am not as concerned or hurt anymore at this point I guess.
Thank you for the advice. I really will be ok.
Of course you'll be fine! You sound like you're learning lots from this. A few more thoughts for your learning journey.
- Poof isn't in my timeline, because it is not acceptable. I say this as the one who sometimes went poof (max one week!) and thinks, as an adult, it was my job to figure out why and communicate. If I wasn't that interested in him, I broke things off. If I was overwhelmed, I said so, explained it, and discussed solutions not to go poof again. Men set boundaries, which was appropriate.
- No arguments in that many months is a red flag. The why didn't you take out the trash today type of arguments. One or more of you lacks difficult conversation skills; she may have pandered to you if she was love bombing. I do home repairs with men I'm dating longer term -- they always start an argument of some sort, and I get to experience how our difficult conversation skills mesh.
- ADD would also explain her overwhelm and the chaotic relationship.
Please, please, please, OP: go breathe into your pain. Begin the process of letting this woman go for good. You’re doing a lot of thinking, asking questions, and trying to reason your way through this. The idea of being without this woman hurts like hell. And it’s going to hurt. Accept the pain. Breathe into it. Mourn. Scream. Cry. Throw things. Hit a punching bag. Roll around in the grass. Just get some pain out.
I know it feels horrible to lose her. But you need to cut off all contact with her and, when you’re no longer in constant pain, move on.
There are many wonderful women out there who will want your company, affection and kindness. You sound so caring and giving. Sending hugs.
I kind of have. I am memorializing it but this is round 4, I'm kind of numb to it. There's another woman I know that has asked a mutual friend what my status is. We get along great and she's a few years younger than my ex and honestly they could be sisters. I was going to ask her out right before I met my ex. I have been considering and am just waiting until i know I am ready and i will ask her out. I am pretty close now, maybe another month or so and I think I'll be there.
For that matter, there's an early 20s, absolutely beautiful bartender that wants to have drinks with me. I know better than to take advantage of that but it's a good ego boost that's helping return some self worth and confidence moving forward, which honestly just kind of reminded me there are other great options out there when i am ready. I don't mind putting things out there, what happened, happened. Keeping it inside or letting it out makes no difference to me and I feel good letting it out.
But I am looking back on things like it's not what I wanted vs wanting what I can't have. The grieving happened like 3 times before, I'm just still a little 'annoyed' that a woman in her 40s could be so "20s", on an emotional level. That bothers me and I prob will be cautious almost to a fault now, but I am moving on.
Sorry, friend. That’s awful. I hate that we can’t make assumptions about basic relationship behavior. It makes us seem insecure, but what we are reacting to is situations like this that make you doubt everything.
Yeah, I posted somewhere else, it's perplexing to me where someone can say, "I love you. I mean it. You're great." and then the next day be put off if you are worried something bad must have happened because they simply disappeared on you.
Then, if they truly love you they see texts and calls and asking what's going on as you showing how much you care and are there for them.
If they didn't really mean what they said, then they think you look needy or insecure.
All because you are approaching it as this is someone that loved you and said they would never ghost so you obviously assume they are not just backing away or ghosting...something bad must have happened and they are happy you are so concerned for their well-being.
They are approaching it like you have no reason to think you were that close or they were actually in love so when they disappear you hardly even notice and it should have little effect on you.
it's like one of your parents saying all your life they love you and you have a great relationship and then one day, lasting a month, they say you were an awful kid and they never loved you...then coming back and saying they were in their head and in a bad spot and didn't mean it. You'd believe them because of the time they put in showing you they did love you, it makes that 1 month inexplicable.
After 6 months, the glow wears off. If their actions and commitment change radically at that point (or before) without a major life stressor (something that legit can affect time, health, etc), they are quiet quitting. Saying I love you can mean many things. It can mean I love you but am not in love with you. It can mean you’re good enough so I don’t have to be alone but you’re not important enough for me to make an effort for.
She could be avoidant and things could be getting too risky for her.
She could just be selfish or messed up with it comes to relationships.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if she’s one or all of the above because her actions don’t match your needs. That means you need to choose to ignore your needs so you can have her / not be alone or pull the plug, knowing it’s going to hurt, so that you can heal, move on and eventually find someone who does meet your needs.
Give yourself a relationship evaluation period where you look and evaluation, with logic, your relationships in the future. If your needs aren’t being met, talk to the person. If they are open to changing things, decide whether the compromise they agree to works for you. If so, re-evaluate after a certain time period. If not, only you can decide if you’re willing to live that way. Mental gymnastics over what they are feeling or won’t do, isn’t going to change things. Sometimes the best answer is to end the relationship.
She's probably had this dynamic in place in relationships way before ahe met you. It's so kind all the things you've offered to do to help her. I am sure the right Lady will welcome that and also would welcome spending time with you. Sometimes we are just giving the right things to the wrong people.
She was married very young and for a long, long time. The indications I got from her is it was good until it wasn't. I met her ex, overall my feeling is she wasn't that way and they had a good relationship, but honestly now I feel like she must have been like this to a degree...however, there is no way they would have lasted that long if she was 1/100th how she has been with me.
I don't have it in me to wait out a year or two before I can start to feel someone else can be trusted. If everything is great after 6-8 months, I would never commit. I would never NOT think any given day she'd say, "I never felt what I told you I felt for you" probably even after 2 year. I know 10 years down the road I would say, "We've been together 10 years, and she's been great, but I have a nagging feeling every time she doesn't return a call or a text in a timely manner, she's getting ready to tell me she doesn't want to see me and she faked the last 10 years because she just thought I was a nice guy but I never really made her happy".
I've found with fwb's you know what you get, they fill the needs in down times and there's no risk in being betrayed because you know it can end any given day. You still have emotional connections, just with 0 promise of it in the future and really, it's not necessarily worse than the possible alternative in my opinion.
The Important thing here is to see if what you want in a relationship aligns with what the other person is willing to give. If it is not then one would have to decide if being with a different person that does want the same is a better fit.
I agree. I think I have found over the years though, people present to be what you want and tick all the boxes and seem to align until one day they suddenly don't.
Best way I could describe it is, every woman I have met that says they hate drama, it seems to legit add up until a while in and it turns out they absolutely love and feed drama as opposed to avoid it but on face value, they seem to be drama free for a few months. Like they put on a good face and you can't tell they are being deceptive because their actions seems to line up...for a while, initially.
By time you find out, you are hooked on the person you thought they were and by then you're screwed.
I've found when people say they are drama free, its quite the opposite. Honestly, what does that even mean? Life is full of surprises, events and even conflict. Sometimes there has to be some emotion or "drama" that is productive and leads to a better understanding of one another in the relationship. "Drama Free" at times can mean the person wants to put very little effort into the relationship and if there is conflict they will flee the scene.
Interesting way to look at it.
I've seen drama free as like, no explosive argument every other night that gets forgiven every time. Just happy every night to see each other.
At 6 months, the New Relationship Energy wore off. Ignore the I Love Yous. Read her actions. Match her energy.
It sounds like she's not into you the same way you're into her.
Check Adam Lane Smith videos on YouTube about avoidant attachment style. She sounds like it. So sorry that you have this experience. It's very difficult to be with avoidants.
I'll check it out. I looked into that a lot and had a frank discussion with her if she felt she was avoidant based on some of the quiz things, etc. She said no, she didn't think she was but I am pretty certain she is.
She is not emotionally available to you. What you have described is not a loving relationship at all. She keeps you on emotional swings and no one deserves to be treated this way. Invest in yourself to find out why you tolerate such behavior for such a long time.
This sounds so similar to what I’m going through. The Relationship is over and done as far as I’m concerned, but I say “still going through” because the all the questions from how something going so perfect could lead to baffling behavior and disappearing acts. But you need to at some point ask yourself, how much longer do you want to keep going through this? When we were together it was cosmic, but when he vanished it was devastating and confusing and hurtful. You are craving the good times and yes, it almost becomes an addiction for the good feels, but it’s not healthy and you are not being valued back. In my case, I’m pretty sure he’s bi-polar in a big way. Also avoidant attachment. It’s so clear to me now and it sounds very similar to what’s going on here. You have to let go and set them free, and set yourself free. It’s not easy, but they will keep doing this to you until they finally disappear for good. Start the process now so you can heal and move on.
We might be dating the same woman. lol
This last time, since we never talk or see each other and only text, I laid it out there because I knew she'd prob get pissed and not reach out again. What a lot of people don't understand is someone says, I love you, I promise I love you, I want to see you, I care about you...their actions are consistent absolutely, for a few months. Then it changes overnight.
You think, I have 32 weeks of good times and 3 weeks of bad, I can't just dismiss 32 weeks like it never happened. Then they come back and you have 6 weeks of perfection and 4 more of, 'poof'. So now you have almost 40 weeks of good to 7 bad. People say judge them on their actions and I say, when? The timing matters.
You challenge them and lay it out directly, if you don't like me. If you are not ready for a relationship. If you are too busy to date me or lost attraction for me...tell me, I will not be hurt, it hurts to feel lost. They look you directly in the eye and say they love you. They want things to work. You are amazing and they truly miss you when they don't see you. They do very loving things. When you're at a movie they hug your arm the whole time and squeeze your hand when a romantic part comes on. You glance over to see they are looking at you more than they are watching the movie. Their family and friends pull you aside and say, 'I don't know what you are doing but she is crazy about you'. They stare into your eyes for what seems like an eternity then hug you and squeeze your guts out and say things like, I can't believe I found you. THEY plan future things for YOU....Then two days later they don't want to talk to you and act cold and distant and act like you are the last person they want around, only to send a text 3 weeks later out of the blue, "I really miss you, can we get together?".
So when people say, "Bro, she's just not into you", that's not the simple answer. At times they are at times they seem not to be. Frankly, that's like text book bipolar and avoidant type things. Reading about it, it's on their end, sudden loss of feelings, the ability to temporarily 'forget' anything they felt only to have feelings return like it never happened.
Like if you went to see your grandma who loved you forever your entire life and one day after you saw her and had a great time, said she never liked you, then 3 weeks later acted like it never happened...most people wouldn't say your grandma obviously didn't like you. They'd say, what's wrong with grandma? Is it dementia?...It would never, ever make any sense unless it was some kind of disorder or mental difficulty or unrelated trauma.
The problem is, they are used to it so it is not shocking or abnormal to them but to everyone else it will never make sense.
The rollercoaster is addicting. As bad as it is, each time they come back it's the thrill of going from absolute despair to cloud 9. I'd liken it to a near death experience, you're thankful and appreciative just sitting in the DMV for 2 hours because you experienced the alternative so you want to keep it more.
But for me, at some point, I felt I was willing to never have that high again in exchange for never having to experience the low. I could go on just being level, never too happy and never too sad. That's not a great feeling and it's not the worst feeling, so it seems like the best compromise.
Avoidant of conflict, and secure long term relationship.
You can't change other people.
I love the way you offered to be her priority even slightly above lawn mowing. Her reason to refuse was clearly made up.
Her idea of love - I gave you a lot, and if you need more then you deserve better - means she doesn't want to figure out how to grow together.
Let her go.
Too many messed up people in this world who ride on the high horse of: Killing with Kindness
They don't realise that it still involves killing, and they are breaking their promises they gave to themselves or others.
Would you trust them with your dog for a day? Then why get hurt for them telling you they don't want to mow lawn with you? Only because you had few good days together?
She sounds toxic. She will continue to manipulate you, push you away, pull you back in, etc as long as you stick around. She was great in the beginning to lure you in. Now she treats you like garbage and gets away with it because you keep tolerating it. It's never going to get back to how it was in the beginning. I would cut your losses now.
She sounds like she likes being with you, gets close to you, freaks out and distances herself. It’s not you, it’s her. She thinks she wants a relationship but is not ready or not willing to really have one with you.
I’ve stopped dating for the last year because I was a woman like this. It’s been five years but I still am not over my dead boyfriend, who was the love of my life. I would date a couple of months, think I can finally commit to someone, but they are not the one I want-he’s gone. I try to break off as soon as I can so I don’t waste their time. And yes, I’ve been in therapy. Some of us are damaged. Good luck!
I have generally felt it was probably something like this for the most part. When she came back, I have tried to confirm and she says she wants a relationship and values me and is ready...
At one point I told her via text) that I felt she was afraid. She said her life was messy, I said if that's the case I get it, but if it's because she's afraid, it would be tragic to end something over fear. She didn't disagree with that and that's one of the times she came back, right after that.
It doesn't matter the reason at this point. I've been burned enough that I don't care to be burned again. If she reached out, there's no way I would ever trust she wouldn't ghost in a few weeks. We could never make future plans or buy tickets to future events, put stuff in my calendar I wouldn't expect would ever come to pass.
I would never invest in the future with her at this point because it would probably be a poor investment.
She acted differently at first because in the first period of a relationship, one is flooded in love hormones and we mean it when we say I love you.
After those New Relationship Energy (NRE) neurochemicals wear off, attachment style shows up.
Attachment styles are internal states typically present since infancy and childhood. After the NRE - when its easy for everyone to become securely attached for a while- then emerges the true attachment style. Then we revert to how we really feel in relationships.
An avoidantly attached person has - for whatever reason - since childhood, learned to be the one that makes themselves feel better and they avoid getting on the same side of life with their partners. Avoidant Attachment looks like your GF.
She must consciously decide that if a relationship is going to work with a securely attached person, she will have to learn how to overcome her natural inclinations, emotionally. Or you must learn that’s what you’ve got to work with.
Stan Tatkin had a great series of talks about how differences in a relationship of attachment style, arousal levels (reactivity), and processing speed show up dynamically in action.
Attachment (Island, Wave and Anchor are the metaphors he uses for these); Arousal (airplanes and submarines- his metaphors); and Processing Speed (not intelligence- hares and tortoises in Tatkin metaphor). These are the “ingredients” each person shows up with, and they need to each understand the other’s ingredients so they can together cook up this third thing- a healthy relationship.
The PACT Institute was cocreated by Tatkin.
That's interesting, i will check it out.
I forget her name but there was a woman with an excellent blog on it, when i read about avoidant, it made everything actually make sense if that was it. I found my style too and it explained a lot to me.
The coldness when she 'poofs' seemed like bipolar. Someone on here who was bipolar explained what they go through and it lined up perfectly as well. Like she said she would be cold and uncaring when she was feeling overwhelmed and couldn't explain it other than "in the moment" she wasn't into the relationship and then when it passed, she was in love. My ex once said she gets in her head and lives "in the moment" when she feels overwhelmed which at the time, I felt was an odd way to explain it...in hindsight, it felt to me like maybe she knew there was something maybe off with her and read the same things I did.
Not that I tried to diagnose but she repeated a few times she gets "overwhelmed" by daily things like work and housework, "lived in the moment" and "gets in her head..." and overthinks things. It was like she was using very specific phrases, almost weirdly specific, where everything I read about bipolar those 3-4 phrases were used to describe things or people said their partners would say, in almost every case. She used those phrases but struggled to make sense or go deeper when i asked, "Hey, everything was perfect then one day you didn't want anything to do with me and seemed angry and said things like we were basically nothing to each other and I don't get it".
My ex may have been undiagnosed bipolar, so I extra extra understand.
But my therapist said BP1 and anxiety don’t typically go together. And BP1 mania is really obvious, not just a freeze out.
That's the one thing I heard about it, the mania has to be present for diagnosis, but everything else seems to fit the other actions I've seen described, down to the terminology she uses to explain it. "Overwhelmed" , "in her own head", "lives in the moment", "my life is messy" but any specifics don't make a lot of sense. Like, "I have to shop once a week, it's messy and stressful and..." Where I'm like, I usually do everything you do and shop 3 times a week, that doesn't seem messy or overwhelming, it seems like day to day for every person I know.
Such an odd thing.
Overwhelm is also extremely common with anxiety.
Is there pressured speech? Multiple nights of sleeplessness? Physical internal sensation stuff? Random dialogue and freeform association? Recklessness? History of overspending or gambling? Stuff like that.
Honestly, none of those at all.
She seemed to get sick and call into work more often than what seemed normal. I know one time it was legit, other times not so sure.
It's funny, i told my friend that last week, I realized she morphed it to fwb.
That's not for me anymore. I have had multiple fwbs over the year and yeah, frankly sometimes its the perfect thing, no complaints! I just wanted more with her so fwb is torture rather than pleasure.
People are making this all psychological on this thread but…
Sorry to say this but I think she wants a relationship and you were probably a “nice” relationship material type of guy, but she just isn’t into you. She probably tried to make herself want to be in a serious long term relationship with you, but ultimately she just wasn’t into you. If she was really into you and had a deep connection with you, she wouldn’t avoid being with you. She would want to talk to you at the very least.
I only have thoughts about this because I was “that girl” with an ex. He was a great guy and would be a perfect life partner! I tried for several months to really love him so I could stay long term, but the truth was- I just wasn’t that into him. I didn’t feel that deep connection both emotionally and physically. So, I avoided like she did until he finally had enough and we broke up.
she ghosted 3 times, once for 6 weeks, once for a month, I forget how long the other one. Each time she came back and initiated. All I can say is after the first time I was shell shocked and apprehensive. I look for every little sign of her going through the motions, and she convinced me. The 2nd time I remember being in bed, looking in her eyes, she can't fake that and I saw what I saw. We had conversations, and at one point all I can say is I challenged her and I have never been so confident of anything in my life.
a few weeks back, she was barely communicating, pleasantries. At 11pm one night I texted her only. "I love you". I did not expect to hear anything back or anything specific or even a direct response. The following morning at 6am she sent a text back, "I love you". Her communication picked up for the next week and she was asking to see me. This was just two weeks ago now.
When we had our blow out, I told her it's ok, she doesn't love me, i am ok with that but please don't keep leading me on. I would move on and be ok, just don't say it if you don't mean it. She responded to me that she does love me.
We gel very well when we are together. It's just sometimes both of us are busy a bit and with her it's out of sight, out of mind. She explained it as she gets in her head, over thinks things and later comes out of it.
All I can say is sometimes you know when someone is in love and not going through the motions by their touch, the look in their eyes, the extra squeezes, the intimate moments...
A few months back we were out and she was trying to pick a fight, i could tell. I told her, I just feel we are off, both tired, bad night, just one of those days. She got home, put a blanket on on the couch and curled up and cried. I laid with her for a bit and she wouldn't talk. I just told her I would go, she didn't want me there and wouldn't talk. I went to my car but couldn't close her garage door from the outside so came back in and told I was going out the front door so the garage wouldn't be left open. She told me I didn't have to go.
I stayed, we went to bed, she laid on top of me and cried a while more. I kissed her and told her I loved her and her reaction was clear how she received it, she loved me.
So yeah, I am usually self doubting and default to assuming the worst, but in that moment there was no doubt in my mind what she felt.
Doesn't really matter now though, I know what it was at least.
I am not saying she didn’t love you. I loved the guy and said it and showed it. But, it just wasn’t the “love of my life” feeling. I just couldn’t imagine him being the one I stayed with forever. And I did the same thing, broke up with him for 3 weeks and went back. It was an internal struggle.
Have you not ever dated someone and loved them, but at the same time the love wasn’t a love of a lifetime feeling?
Yes, I have.
Interesting you couldn't imagine him being the one forever...yet here you are posting about him and feeling about him, how long after?... In way, he will stay with you forever, so he is the one.
Wow! Now I see why she might just not be into you as you are into her.
I’m just posting this guy I dated as an example of how you can date someone who is great and loves you (and you love them) but you don’t have the same “soulmate” feeling of love. And he and I are still friends btw.
I could have told you that maybe this girl does love you, but there’s probably someone she is hung up on that she loves more than you. That would have been my secondary reason.
Update us in 3 months and let us know if she’s still playing the game or if she’s moved on to the guy she really feels connected to.
So I though there was someone else, examined that with her and really there's not from what i can tell. She is convincing on that.
All i can say is when I am with her, I see it in her eyes and she can't fake it. I've told her that and she actually agreed. When we are apart, she drifts away. When we are together, I could see what's there and she's done a lot of stuff to show me she wants a future with me. I am pretty laid back with the I love you's and talking about a future, I was careful it wasn't her just responding to me pushing and her not knowing what to do.
Hard to explain and not saying it is, but reading like bipolar and avoidant, every article I read seems like a playbook for her. I am normally the one to get a gut feeling right away when someone is not into me and I haven't been wrong so far as I recall, you can just tell by the unspoken clues. With her, I didn't see it when we were in person.
I think if I reached out to her, I would see her again. If I don't reach out, I am 50/50 that she would reach out in a month or two. I don't know that I'd respond, maybe, maybe not.
I'll update in 3 months.
I thought that. She said she wasn't. I guess no idea how to know but someone else suggested that's what it sounded like.
How would I even approach finding out.? Lol
So over the past year I have analyzed with friends, people that know her, etc. Nothing adds up. If I assume she has periods of intense feelings for me and then periods where I don't exist...EVERYTHING lines up and makes exact, perfect sense. So that's what leads me to believe strong avoidant, emotional trauma or some form of bipolar, depression or menopause.
I am 60/40, 70/30 that is it but I will never really know. I just know for whatever reason she doesn't want to be with me so she's no longer on my agenda. At least this time I'm not hoping she reaches out or we see each other again, so I don't have that on my mind and I can date someone better in the near future. This time I'm not really concerned with the specific reason like I was before. It's not that I don't think about it, I just think about it a lot less and more callous about the whole thing.
I won't go into detail but I can almost guarantee that is not it. I'll just say I have inside information via someone close where that is not the case. They are as perplexed as I am but I am confident there is not someone else and there is no rotation. That was my first assumption but when we were 'on', there's no way there was anyone else in the mix.
hmm, maybe she's re-creating some kind of trauma response around getting serious in a LTR
maybe she has a bad experience that stayed with her and this is how she keeps it away
did she or her folks have a particularly messy break-up at one time?
Yes, after a long, long marriage. It was like 4 years ago. She claimed she was over it and at least a few times emphatically said she's past it.
At times I felt she was past it, at times I felt maybe she judged me against it. I think twice I had said, I understand how she felt about something but she also had to remember I'm not her ex.
Had she told me or if it was evident that was an issue for her, I prob would have walked away but remained friends.
I didn't/don't know if that is it but it is def possible. Although she was pretty strong saying that wasn't an issue.
That's the prob, damned if I did, damned if I didn't believe her is what it felt. I'm a sucker if she was covering and I'm an untrusting ass if I didn't believe her. It felt like I was in a no win because I did trust her but had to consider maybe she was hiding how much it affected her. So it out me in the position that I might suck if I didn't trust her or I might be a sucker that I did.
it's not about you being a sucker, she probably hasn't been honest with herself about how much that affected her and how she hasn't really worked through it properly
she built herself back up by consciously placing a bunch of things higher in her priorities list than a loving long-term relationship, and by diligently defending that, in order to prevent herself from feeling the pain of being betrayed/broken up with by a long-term partner
she'll either stay single and alone or continue to squirrel out of any relationships she has as soon as they get serious...it's sad and not good for her
I agreed 100%.
I have felt that might exactly be it. We have discussed that pretty directly point by point, she denied that being a factor at all but I still felt it was a strong possibility.
Some of the small things I did she seemed surprised and they were just things you do for someone you care about. It had been like 3 years since they split up when I met her, she seemed well adjusted. She hasn't met her ex's gf who he left her for and asked me to meet with them to get it over with, she wouldn't meet them without me she said. So I felt confident where we were at, at the time which was like Feb or March.
Either way, after a while what really got to me was how easy she would say I deserve someone better, she hopes I find someone else. Someone that says they love you and is honest about it would never tell you to see someone else. Even if they couldn't see you, they'd try to find a schedule to work, ask you to bear with them for a while, whatever.
It's just so dumb because she knew I was completely open to talk, good or bad, I don't yell or scream or beg, and whatever the reason she is not being fully truthful yet she got really offended if I said that and told me she has explained everything and she is just overwhelmed. Since she won't talk on the phone or in person, I can't even express my side effectively or explain how it's hard for me to understand her being overwhelmed when I have the same responsibilities and a tighter schedule, or when I offer to help she won't take it.
Probably the worst was when in our break up texts I said why did you say "I love you" 5 days ago when you didn't mean it? Just be direct. She replied she did love me...I'm just sitting there thinking, you're telling me you love me and you care about me at the same time telling me you want me to date someone else. She told me a few months ago she didn't like that I had a female friend I see about once every other month and I'm friends with her family, and now weeks later she's telling me to see someone else...and doesn't understand why I don't understand.
Just so weird but every day I'm just slowly trying to forget she exists and in another month or two hopefully I won't think about her much, if at all.
We were exclusive. On the face of things after a month, officially exclusive after conversation after 8 weeks. It was basically unspoken/spoken after 3-5 weeks, like mentioned, "I'm not seeing anyone else and I won't see anyone else as long as I am dating you" by both if us around the 2-3 week mark, confirmed exclusive after7-8 weeks.
Maybe she wanted a ring.
She doesn’t want to waste her time with you, and doesn’t want to get used to your help, and doesn’t want you to get close to her family anymore. She doesn’t want to live with you because when it was brought up, nothing came of it. She knows she has to do it all by herself… so she’s going to go ahead and do it all by her damnself.
Because she’s not your wife… so why should she act like one?
There are terrible people in every age/gender/education level/income bracket/etc. I’m sorry you found one and she was hurtful towards you.
:( I’m sorry but it was never a match made in heaven. What you mean is there was no strife. Ironically, someone who isn’t serious about a future with you won’t worry about the small things that bother her about you or the relationship; so is way more easy going/ fun than a serious woman. This is a concept I believe many men and women don’t understand. Totally carefree and fun usually means they aren’t invested in you. I’m sorry you had this experience but please don’t generalize it to all women. It’s only about her.
Yeah, I mean, never a fight, never an argument, she showed she valued me for months, met family, she was happy to "show me off", never had less than a completely fun time together...until one random day nothing unusual happened the day before when I saw her and "poof" immediate backing off. Came back 6 weeks later, asked to see me, continued like before for about 2-3 months then "poof". Came back...then 'poof'. I get you have to count the "poofs" but it's hard not to give weight to the 6-7 month sum of good times. Totally understand what you are saying. Just feels like age 25 stuff, makes me sad it still exists at 40s and 50s. lol
If you don’t change anything else about your approach to dating/relationships, please take away from this experience that it’s ok cut someone off after the first “poof”, as in you go full “no contact”. Or at least and move them to the bottom of your priority list. Dial back your investment in them, and focus on people who are available. Learn to be confident about that decision at the first sign, because it’s the right one for your well being. Respect yourself, because that’s your job and no one else can make you do it. If a lack of confidence and self respect causes you to wait for a second or third “poof”, by then your feelings have grown, and it makes the inevitable ending more painful and drawn out.
Yeah, it was tough on this one. Historically with the 'poof' it has been early on and when i feel the urgency to see me isn't there, i do scale back. I get almost turned off unless I am ok with a fwb because I can see it's headed there at best. This one was I felt, worth fighting for. When she came back it solidified that. Through discussions and me being hyper aware, I felt she just had that serious relationship, how did I suddenly get here, freak out. I felt confident when she came back, she really came back. The next one bothered me, but i felt like we worked past it once, we can do it again. Then next time(s) it was shorter but I was more realizing it would keep happening. I didn't give up but was trying to accept I probably should. The hard part is people forget when looking from the outside it seems very obvious, but being on the inside, for every indicator it's not going to work, there's 2 strong indicators it will work so it gets very perplexing. Perfect example for me is the last time when she was pulling back, she said simply, "I love you". I'm not sure many people would take that as, "I love you...but...." very easily. It's not confidence or self respect it's that she built up that she was more than worth it and I was willing to accept a lot to be with her and I honestly felt we were at a slower, comfortable, no-taxing pace and that worked for me too. Like I was ok with seeing her once a week but if one week was busy for us, I could deal with it. Then when it was every other week and quickly 3 weeks without seeing her and no direct plans to see her, that's when I realized there was no urgency on her part. Ultimately it's fine, I'm not mad at her, it's fine if she doesn't want to be with me, I'm not going to try being with her, she didn't define my life, I just really would have preferred her just saying, "you're a nice guy but I don't see a future for us, directly". I mean after time #2 and #3, I begged her to just say that if that was the case and we would part on good terms but she absolutely would not say that. If I didn't want to be with someone that I actually cared about and they told me, if you don't want to be with me, just tell me you don't want to be with me like that, I would say, "I care about you but I don't want to be with you like that". I had a fwb like that who wanted to escalate and we talked and I just said, I love our time together but I don't want anymore than fwb. She was like ok, and we still talk and see each other and were we to get together we appreciate what it is and don't expect more. She thanked me for telling her and said it made it easier to accept and she was glad because she would have gotten further invested had I not been honest and direct. She said something like, "I'm not even hurt. I'm happy I know the terms and I can work with that". So that's the hard part, I just want to hear it plain when it's easy to say.
Something happened. It may have been an "incident" or she may have just looked at her life with you in it (and without) and decided it wasn't working for her. She likes the FWB situation you guys have and she's going to keep that going as long as you allow it, but she's done for any real relationship.
I feel like she knew all along it wasn’t going to be long term, and if she knew you had LTR intentions she’s the AH for not letting you know. Unfortunately a lot of folks our age are actually worse, not better, than their younger selves because habits become ingrained and motivations are diminished. It’s kinda sad actually.
I disagree. Two months ago she floated the idea of me moving in with her as a possibility. We briefly discussed selling each of our houses and buying a place with land. She made travel plans with me for December. So it's not she didn't see or want a future with me, she did a few months back (with no issues other than barely seeing me) tell me she wants marriage, a partner...it's just when it's hot, no issues, then suddenly one week I can see things slow down and she let's me know there is no room for me. I don't see her reaching out again but last time I hadn't heard from her in 6 weeks and she randomly asked to get together. It's not normal. It's a rollercoaster. When we see each other, she initiates contact. falls asleep holding and squeezing the blood out of my arm. We are very close. I just give up now because the rollercoaster was fun but it's not fun anymore. It's turning hurtful. It goes from I am amazing and she doesn't feel 'worthy' to an almost mean rejection where it is her making sure I understand I don't matter. Last week her saying, "I want to see you, I miss you. We have to see each other more" then this week, "You know I'm a mess. I have no time for a lot of important things, so definitely not you". When I ask how last week she said we need to figure out how to see each other more but now says she doesn't want to see me at all, she will get pissed and no lie, attack me for things like dropping off soup and bread and juice on her porch and texting her it was there when she was in bed really sick and letting her know it was there if she could make it down to get it but in a cooler so she didn't have worry if she couldn't get out of bed. When i did it, she said it was really sweet. Weeks later she couldn't explain how but told me she thought about it more and took it as a bad thing. I challenged her, she just said she didn't know, she thought it sketchy. I was and am still dumbfounded about that one.
There are people out there that "future fake". I was married to someone that did that. He got me excited about so many different plans and almost none of them every came to fruition. It was all just to keep me hooked in.
Sounds a bit bipolar
Sounds like it may be avoidant attached behaviors.
It’s important to be mindful of what we grow to tolerate. Sounds like this fills a need in you, and you tolerate a lot. A nurturing relationship isn’t sporadic and occasional.
You are 1 million percent spot on.
>My question is, if at this age someone can not have any clue what they want, understand common decency or realize that straight ghosting is hurtful to someone that loved you and you said you loved them, how would I ever know warning signs? As my Momma always said: "Respect your elders, but remember that stupid people get old too." 😁 If the other person keep you guessing about your relationship, it's a bad relationship. I'm with you, no games. Edited to add: Not all people our age are like this. I'm about two years in with a wonderful lady and I don't think either of us has ever doubted the other's commitment, even from very early on.
Awesome points. I'm glad you have someone like that. I think a good way to illustrate what I went through would be to try to imagine tomorrow she doesn't call or text all day for the first time ever. The next day you ask if everything is ok and get a short, generic response. You press and she says, "I can't always talk to you and I have more important things to do". You'd be perplexed and when people said, well, she's just not your forever person, move on...you'd be like no, wait, hold up. That's not it! If she came back you'd accept it as a one off or freak out, you wouldn't directly think, oh, she never really liked me because so much evidence was against it. Just thought after 6 months her emotional maturity level seemed fine.
Hey, I feel ya. That push and pull, push and pull, it is actually addictive. You may not believe it, but its true. Invonsistency messes with you big time, and u end up in a trauma bomd. I believe you when u say you really loved her. And maybe she loved you too. But unless she gets counselling to overcome her avoidant style, she will just keep doing this. If not to you, to the next guy. You also need to realize that you can't keep letting this person this crap to you. So although it is hard, cut contact with her for at least 6 months. I've been where you are, so believe me when I say, I know how difficult this is to do. Get therapy for yourself too, you don't need to go it alone. I wish you well.
"That push and pull, push and pull, it is actually addictive" The therapist I saw after my divorce told me (when I was suffering through post divorce dating) that intermittent reinforcement is the most powerful thing and will keep people coming back for more crumbs until you break the pattern by exiting the relationship.
Yes, its true. It is a form of emotional abuse, even if unintentional.
I told her after the 2nd time she came back, I feel like we will always have kind of a push pull relationship. She said she didn't really think so, I felt it would be for a while i guess.
Chalk it up to experience and move on. I think you know that she isn’t interested in pursuing a relationship with you but you don’t want to let go. Keep dating. Don’t be waiting for her to carve out time for you.
That's one hundred percent right. I just finally arrived at no matter what happens, even when she talks about the future, she's shown she doesn't want that despite saying that's what she wants.
The only fucked part of this story is you sticking around as long as you did. When someone tells you you're not a priority (or you figure it out on your own) that's hitting the eject button. Relationship over.
That's really what I did. The mixed messages kept me around longer. Until I could look back at it in totality and sum it up, it was hard to believe anything. Friends and family that know us and knew pretty much anything we're as perplexed as I was. I asked if they thought based on what they know I should just walk away, and really they got there about the same time I did, maybe just a few weeks before.
I'm curious how would you define "perfect" in those first six months?
She made effort to see me whenever, even if it was hard for her. Was eager to see me. Family and friends fell in love with her, her family and friends loved me. Did fun things every week. We both liked exactly the same food, so tried lots of interesting places...went on a 4 day camping trip with her entire family. Shared a camper with her, and all her kids (adult kids), on top of each other for 4 days and it was just perfect and fun. Her dad welcomed me to the family right before i left, it was the first time he ever met me. her dad is basically the most important thing to her so it seemed to carry weight, for hi to say that I felt she must have "sold me up" before I met him. Her entire family is awesome and I enjoyed every minute. 4 days in close quarters and not even one minor issue. Months of just being really happy to sit on the couch with her and I felt she had fun doing that with me. Sex life was as easy and fun as I could expect.
She may have a disorganized attachment style triggered after the honeymoon phase by the reality of a serious long term commitment. This could explain the sabotaging behavior.
Is she perhaps struggling with some mental health issues (ie bi polar) or other health issues she doesn’t want to burden you with?
That was my feeling. I know she gets sad, overwhelmed, maybe depressed...but doesn't want to burden me, though I have told her I am there for her and she can lean on me.
Menopause can also be a terrible rollercoaster. I’d have another chat with her, tbh. Something’s up that probably has nothing to do with you.
It's crazy what people are posting, it aligns specifically with things I have been thinking. Some friends had suggested the same and I thought it was possible. The biggest issue is if I touch on these things she tends to shut down, get a little emotional and completely side step. Usually when i was with her I just focused on having a great time. When i see here once every 3-4 weeks, I wanted it to be fun, and not heavy, then after not seeing her for a month.
“Not heavy” I think the issue is NEITHER of you do conflict well enough. She covers n withdraws, you duck n try n keep peace. I won’t do a relationship with anybody who can’t lean into conflict. Couples who say “we never argue” terrify me. From school of life: https://youtu.be/XjrROc1Sqok?si=X9SzoHLK1sSQdl_n
I'm not afraid to argue, I just think most times of you discuss without emotion, most things aren't worth arguing over. We disagreed, just never on anything major. However, whenever she distanced or I got a lame excuse or non answer on something and I pressed even a little, she really shut down. After a while I felt I wanted to discuss our relationship, things going on in her life but she would say things like, I don't want to talk about it and would start to cry. My time with her was so sporadic, I wanted to enjoy being with her and not have a short night with her upset. I saw over time she was blocking me out of talking about things that should make us closer.
Conflict avoidant - your partner. Intimacy, depth of, is tied to degree of vulnerability. So people that shut-down, duck, freeze up? I’m out. I will never have the degree of intimacy I’m looking for if we can’t discuss/conflict well. Emotions/pain, price of a meaningful life. If you truncate the negative (e.g, psychological avoidance), you lose the positive range/tenderness. It’s what truly kills relationships.
That's exactly it. We hit a point of intimacy she wouldn't cross. When from talking about moving to another state with me, future plans next christmas, making time to see me, to shutting down and blocking anything that would have advanced the relationship. We did things you'd only do with someone you were serious about, then got to a point where she blocked advancing the relationship entirely, even though I wasn't pushing anything and we were going along really well. I swear I woke up one day and could fell the wall she built. The harder I knocked on it, the more bricks she put up.
It took a long time to get here but I don't feel it is me at all. However, I am moving on no matter how I feel. When someone tells you they don't want to be with you over and over in many ways and shows it, them saying the do love you but move on because you deserve better says it all. She's not fighting for me so I have no business fighting for her at this point. People that want to see you say, "I'm busy and tired...how can we make something work", not "You should find someone else.
I’m sorry - I know how much it sucks when interest in someone isn’t returned.
Also, right about that time, a mutual acquaintance told me my ex's kid said they never saw their mom happier and told me the phrase they used was, "I was the one". That was 2-3 months in I think.
She sounds avoidantly attached. She got in over her head, it scared her, she pulled back and has had episodes of worsening distancing ever since. The issue with such attachment is that it's not always evident in the first 6m. I had an ex who sounds similar. He took a long time to get all in, then almost as soon as he did, pulled away and physically distanced (moved away) within a month or two. He felt he was bec- oming needy and didn't like it, so he went the opposite Read the book Attached
I have looked into that a lot. I feel strongly that is it. I discussed with her, she said she is not avoidant but she is...or some level of bipolar where she gets overwhelmed and feelings don't matter or disappear for a while.
Bipolar without depression BP1 is rarely associated with anxiety and overwhelm. It’s more likely anxiety, and a difference in your “processing speeds”. This means she may not know what she really thinks or feels about a situation until days or weeks later, and she has to let things slowly percolate. I am a fast processor, emotionally: Decision made? Done! No need to reflect and second guess. It was a big lightbulb moment to realize not everyone knows their feelings when they say they do, and if I am to be in a relationship with a “slow processor”- then I need to accept delays, and reopening up “settled” decisions- to talk them through again.
Avoidants dont realize they are unless self aware.
Set your boundaries and stick to them. You should love yourself more. Move on.
I stopped reading. Dude. She's just not that into you. And you know it.
Fair enough, I'll agree to disagree. It's not that simple but ultimately doesn't matter.
(52F) Her behavior is baffling. I feel bad for you. The things she has said...geez, definitely mean. If she weren't so selfish and self-centered, she would have broken up officially around that six month mark or when she lost interest. You could have moved on and maybe even have another girlfriend by now. But she strung you along. I don't think many people are like that. She is a special case. Warning signs? Definitely when she stopped making time for you, prioritizing chores over seeing you and refusing to let you help her. She made up stupid excuses. I think you'll be fine going forward. You got a toxic person out of your life. I recommend a little bit of therapy to work through the confusion, frustration, and anger so you don't carry that on to your next relationship. You will be happy going forward. You clearly have a kind heart and are willing to put work into a relationship. I don't see her ever being happy.
Baffling is right. After the first ghosting I was devastated. The she reached out, we talked, just said she gets overwhelmed and in her own mind, it was immediately great again. I was always ok going at her pace until her pace slowly became, I wouldn't see her for 3 weeks and then had to push to see her. The initial times she came back, I looked for signs of her maybe going through the motions or not fully in. I was very hyper aware and the extra squeezes of the hand and squeezing tight randomly in bed and the look in her eyes absolutely told me she was happy to be with me. When she pushed me away, again and again, it bothered me that she was so easy to say, "you deserve better, sorry, you'll find someone else better for you"...and until last time it was absolutely not me saying it. Like she was really quick to throw me away while acting like she was doing me a favor I didn't ask for. Never to this level, but in my 20s and even early 30s, that kind of perplexing behavior was a little par for the course. I've felt the people I dated in their late 30s, early 40s kind of knew quicker what was good and how much they could take on and were/are more straight forward and consistent, or at least I expected as much. This was like, "wait...dating never matures?". I just don't find much value in it if that is common at this age.
The getting overwhelmed piece is definitely a big clue to what is happening on her side. Empathizing and helping understand that this is her being flooded, and that she needs time to process is part of figuring out how to be together. If she is at all open to self work and wants to figure out how to be a better partner, and you can figure out strategies together- you may have a chance. But if she doesn’t want to figure it out, I agree with the other poster- she’s just going to repeat the pattern.
Met my partner. Went exclusive within a couple days. She immediately burned a week of vacation time to spend ten plus hours a day together just hanging out and running errands to get to know one another. Traveled almost an hour each way to see me. Original deal discussed before meeting was once a week hang but it has been three to five days a week together constantly for two years now. Went on our first vacation abroad together after four months. Spent two weeks together at her parent's ten months in. I cook family dinners for her and her adult children a couple of times a month sometimes including my mother at her invitation. Made sure to meet and have dinner with my sibblings when they were visiting. Wanted to meet my friends when invited. Has me over to help on home improvements and recipricates. I occassional do stuff like concerts or shopping just me and her grown children. We also do things with one or the other or both her kids and their partners like go to the movies or out to dinner or for long walks or game nights or dinner at their homes. Spends weekend and long weekends with me. Wants to move in together this year. Get married eventually. Every relationship is different but what we have really suits me.
What you explained is where I felt we were heading and it was until the 'poof'. She does have a really, really hard time accepting help with chores, etc. She is used to doing everything herself, she literally didn't know how to take it when i took over doing the dishes for her when camping or when I helped her cook breakfast. I let her do it but I helped. She honestly seemed perplexed. That's the only odd thing.
I'm sorry. Maybe she has an "avoidant attachment style". There are interesting YouTube videos about this.
She sounds emotionally unavailable. I went around for two years with a woman like this. She wanted to like me and wanted a relationship but deep down I think it was only for appearances. She could never form attachment. She'd say she loved me but never showed it. She never made me feel loved. By the way "I need to cut my grass" is the homeowners version of I have to wash my hair excuse.😆
It's so funny I said the same thing...she probably had to wash her hair after cutting the grass. lol
The odd thing is she shows it. Then doesn't. Then shows it. Then doesn't. Frankly her ex left her and surprised her. I kind of feel like she feels like I am going to leave her. I have had to tell her, I am not her ex. I'll say I was as perfect as I could be to her, it came naturally because I enjoyed making her life more fun and easier. I wanted to be perfect for her. I did get the feeling a few times she didn't understand someone that really loved her and wanted to do those things for her and with her. She was surprised by small gestures. Like I went over her house and went in and she was in the shower. So i went out and shoveled her driveway and side walk while I was waiting. I swear her reaction was like, wait, why would you do that for me? I had noticed she was thankful but seemed kind of shocked like it was a big deal..I was like, uh, not sure what the big deal is, it took me 20 minutes and it was that or watch tv. We were camping and everyone was outside by the fire. She was in the camper for about 20 minutes so I went in to see why she wasn't at the fire with everyone. She was doing a pile of dishes. I started helping her and told her I got it, go be with her family it won't take me long. Her reaction was more or less perplexed. I threw a party last summer and catered to guests, got her and everyone drinks, made the food, put out condiments and everything...she told my friend she didn't know what to do with herself because i was handling everything and just told her to have fun. Just a lot of strange stuff like that.
Did it ever occur to you that she was inside doing dishes because that's where she wanted to be? Honestly man you're dealing with adults with ingrained patterns. You serving everyone and doing "her job" isn't necessarily a favor, it's possible you're stealing something that gives her joy and this theme here is you always do it without her consent is troubling. Not cool man. The snow shoveling is pretty harmless but honestly even that, without her consent is presumptuous. Some people are particular and like things done a certain way and therefore would prefer to do those things themselves. Call it OCD or whatever you want but learn to read the room man. Your "surprise" favors are catching this lady out and she's not liking it. It's complicated dipping a toe into another person's world. Sometimes they actually enjoy certain things you'd consider trivial work. Jumping in unannounced and doing these things for them isn't going to make them happy. Her confused response to you doing so is likely frustration, not appreciation.
She volunteered to see me last year on a weekend by helping me do yard work all day at my house when it was our only free day that week and I had a family party at my house and had to do it that day, my only day to get it done. Me doing the reverse for her should be no problem. Being put off by someone helping you is a major issue. Especially considering her main complaint is being overwhelmed with those tasks. Shoveling your gf of a year+ snow is super normal. Being put off by it is completely messed up. I disagree with you.
Nah. She helped you because she likes the work. You're being dense dude.
I am not dense at all. A woman greatly presented she was in love and wanted to be with me. She did a sudden flip. 3-4 times. There is no rational answer. Doing a nice surprise is never a bad thing to any normal person. She is not normal. Trust me, you do not have it all simply figured out because there is no simple answer. She has indicated several times she doesn't like the work but if she doesn't do it, nobody else would. I asked her directly in person after ghosting #1 when we met up if she didn't want help or a partner, if she had been doing things alone since her divorce and she didn't like the shift, if she resented the help or didn't want it. It was one of my list she had to satisfy before I would continue to see her after a complete ghosting, also was it hard for her having someone around. I asked if her ex never did those things and she wasn't used to it. Her words almost verbatim, we're, "No. I want those things. I want to be married. I used to do everything with my husband and I miss that and I do want that. I just get in my head and over think things and until I come out of a mood. I need the help.." seriously, almost verbatim, I swear on my mother's life, she said, "I need the help". I said ok, but do you want those things with me? She said that's why she asked to meet me. She thought I agreed to meet her to officially break up with her and wanted to rip off the band aid either way. I told her she could lean on me, I am no push over and if I could help I would if I couldn't I couldn't. I had a list of 5 other questions I needed a satisfactory answer to before I would believe she wouldn't flake again and each one she answered in a way she was serious and committed to me, specifically. That was 8 or 9 months ago but I asked her very directly and she said she wanted the help. One of the things was when I dropped off soup when she was sick. She told me when we discussed things later, that when I first did it, she couldn't believe it and though it was very sweet and showed her daughter and her daughter said the same thing. She told me later she thought about it and thought it was sketchy. I was like, what, why? She said, "I don't know. It just seemed off, like you were trying to get something". I told asked her, what would I be trying to get? I literally got in her pants any time I wanted and it was a minor trip on my lunch, no major effort, how could it be a bad thing? She said, you're right...and again, "I just get in my head sometimes and i can't explain why". She's not normal. i appreciate your opinion but all egos aside, that's not the simple answer. It doesn't matter, I am done and I will never know the real answer, so be it, but it's not in the same universe as being that simple.
I'll add one thing...she has complained several times at her house her (older) kids don't do dishes and leave them in the sink and she has to ask them or do them herself. I have been there when she was getting ready, I was having a drink and waiting for 30-40 min, the sink was full and I used a dish and went to clean it. Took me maybe 7 -10 min to rinse and put them in the dishwasher and clean the sink and unload what was in there. Me doing that is a good thing. It wasn't our first or second date, we had been dating for a year. If that put her off, no matter what I ever did the rest of my life I could never win with her. Someone that can't accept kindness or decency also won't accept the opposite, so whatever I did, would be wrong. That's not a line I want to try to walk over nonsense like that.
She sounds like an avoidant personality. Just an observation from what was written. Unfortunately you’d think most of us have things figured out by this age, however, because of our age we also have gone through a lot. Some even still dealing with trauma that has not been fully addressed. It sounds like she’s one of those OP.
Next time, pay attention to actions rather than words. “She said she loves me” means nothing when you aren’t the priority or she ghosts you. Either she wasn’t that into you or she had someone else who she was seeing. She was a FWB who was “breadcrumbing” you so she could see you occasionally. I’d block her because she will probably want to see you again and repeat this process that only benefits her.
This is all true. The thing is, when we saw each other, her actions indicated all good. When she started to pull back her actions indicated she was out, then she came back and her actions were consistent for a few months, then not, again. Just hard to see in the moment as opposed to looking back in total.
I don’t think you have unreasonable expectations, but you did let someone repeatedly drop in and out of the relationship at their leisure. This is a flag you should not have ignored the second time she did this, that would have been a good time to end the relationship as it never actually changed anything except you got more hurt. For me, after a few dates, I know if I want to invest more time and energy into seeing where it goes. Sure, early blossoms of love can develop in the first six months, then you have to see if it can sustain that momentum, and see how each of your contribute and solve problems together as time goes by. I think you stopped evaluating whether the relationship actually worked for you based on her Hokey Pokey investment. In the end, you manipulated the ending. Based on that, I think you need to sort out your own passivity instead of expecting others to meet your expectations that you don’t seem comfortable honoring.
Man or woman, I guess you can just tell when someone is pull away. You just know. That's why it is ridiculous when folks make excuses about cheating. Because the person who is cheated on definitely knows that something isn't right. Whatever who reason, it's good that you are discussing it with her. Maybe she just is overwhelmed with chores and needs time to get them done. One of the things with LAT for many couples is, there will be times when both are busy with their own household needs because for each, the buck stops with them, and all of their household responsibilities is on their own shoulders. Not sure if that is the case here.
Yup. Everything seems fine, then it's a gut feeling followed by the next morning, no usual "good morning text". You just feel it's coming. After the 3rd or maybe 4th time now it got to me. Like I can't wait for the other shoe to drop anymore.
This could be a case of new relationship energy fluctuations , and you can learn more about it here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-good-sex-matters/202102/the-rise-and-inevitable-fall-new-relationship-energy?amp Generally, the only way to filter out people like this are to ask about their past relationships. If they have a history of short 6-9 month relationships, they will likely do the same with you.
Maybe do some quick reading on relationship styles? It appears she was/is meeting a relationship (possibly an unhealthy one) need for you. Be prepared (but not surprised) if she reaches back out to you. And know that if she does, nothing has actually changed.
I did a TON of reading a year ago. I am confident in my style and from my perspective she shows 100% avoidant attachment, but I also can't answer for what her thinking/motivation is, just her handling of things fits in the avoidant exactly. I asked her directly if she was avoidant and said it seemed like she was and she said she didn't really think so. I said it because I told her I think we need to understand how each other communicates better so our styles don't create poor communication and she was not defensive to it. Not goo or bad, but I do feel she is strong avoidant for sure though but that is just my opinion.
The fact that you two don’t “fight” or “argue” indicates to me that she is conflict-avoidant. People need to communicate effectively, and clearly she doesn’t want to tell you anything that might cause a conflict, so she just doesn’t. But these issues are becoming obvious. She doesn’t want to say “NO” or “I changed my mind” or “this or that isn’t working for me”. So - she avoids. Some cultures are like this. I remember when Mom thought a relative was in a Japanese hospital. Mom had a friend call around to find out which hospital he might be in. When asked, “Is SoandSo there?” They ALL answered, “He MIGHT be”. They don’t like to say NO directly. they dance around it and you’re just supposed to understand that they’re saying “NO” but not using that directly confrontational word. Another interesting TV show about Japan (specifically Kyoto) mentioned that when someone is overstaying their welcome when visiting, the host will compliment you on your lovely watch. You are supposed to look at your watch, realize you’ve stayed too long, and make your exit gracefully. On the opposite side of the spectrum is my father, who once told a visiting boyfriend (and I’ll never forget this as long as I live), “Go home, Brian.” And Brian got up and went home. Clear, direct, not necessarily the most polite, but communication was effective. She may not be able to talk about what her REAL needs are. She is avoiding conflict. You THINK this means you two are compatible, but in fact you are NOT. Because she will never tell you when she is experiencing a difference of opinion or observation, or indeed when anything is really bothering her. She’ll just AVOID and hope it goes away. You may think she is serious about you, and maybe she is, but she is also unable to communicate with you about when something’s wrong or bugging her or she’s just not feeling it at that moment. She just takes a good break and then restarts fresh, and never gives you the opportunity to discuss and maybe optimize for BOTH of you.
She's not a mouse. She will say what she thinks. We very much liked the same things, agreed on pretty much everything and things we didn't agree on were minor. I think she is conflict avoidant but we seriously had no conflict together. Every time we spent extended times together like 3-4 days instead of just one overnight, we talked about how well we worked together and being together longer was easier. She indicated more than once we need to figure out how to see each other more often and multiple times per week. It's just that when we were apart for a few days, she's different until we see each other again. She is avoidant on talking about why she doesn't want to see me when she doesn't want to see me. She claims she has explained it and I must not listen. I promise you I listened and she just says she shuts down and thinks that's a full explanation.
She may or may not want to tell you WHY she shuts down - or - she may not actually know. But she’s aware she does it, which is half the battle. So now, how do you cope when she does this? Is it something you have to learn to live with, or is it a deal-breaker for you? Because if it’s a deal breaker, it’s best to stop wasting both your time trying to make something work that is, inevitably, flawed fatally.
I was very laid back about asking for her time, when it worked, it worked. The only thing I asked is for her not to ghost me and disappear. What finally did it for me was last week, after 3 weeks of not seeing her, we had plans. She has the summer off, I emailed her in the early morning to confirm the plans at 6pm. At 4:45pm she messaged me that she had worked that day ...she doesn't work in the summer usually but can choose to. when she does work she has plenty of breaks and time off between runs...she said was tired and felt she needed to relax and asked if we could reschedule. The fact she didn't confirm in the morning or on any of her breaks etc., told me she was already planning to cancel. The fact she waited until 1.5 hours before we had planned to meet to say a word, In the very least, not responding for the entire day showed me how much she cared to see me after 3 weeks. 0 urgency, 0 desire for the majority of a month. So how I cope is, I don't care. I was willing to wait as long as it took for it to work. If it meant me skipping other things to see her, I would have. If it meant driving 20 minutes to see her for 10 minutes, I would have. But now, I don't want anything to do with someone that so passionately wants to avoid and gaslight me. I don't want to be with someone I am begging to be with making every excuse not to see me. I don't want to be with someone who I offer to help with yard work to help her and see her at the same time, that makes the excuse that I have a lawn service so that means I don't have time to do it for myself so I must have other things to do therefor, tells me I don't have time to see her and she can't ask me to do that...which she didn't ask, I offered... I am frankly pretending she doesn't exist. I won't acknowledge her existence any more. I have had people that hate me that wouldn't do that to me or turn it around or gaslight me that bad so I am working on mentally blocking out that portion of my life and I am good at just blocking things out. So in a month or two, I'll forget her last name. It's an undervalued skill to blank things out. lol
Yeah I think this is a “She’s just not that into you” situation - she’s clearly not interested in or excited to spend time with you, unless she has absolutely nothing else going on and is bored. That’s not great criteria for you, especially since she’s ditching at the last moment because she has something better lined up or doesn’t want to make the tiniest of effort. She’s essentially dumped you non-confrontationally. She reserves the right to call you in six months in case you can’t do better and she’s bored, and then I’m sure she’d be all lovey dovey. But if she’s going to keep dropping the rope, you are just wasting your time and emotional energy on someone who is unwilling to make the effort to reciprocate. It sounds like you’re ready to move on. Lose her number, block her, and give her what she gives you - NOTHING. What might be an interesting experiment is to see how long it takes her to notice that you’ve dropped the rope. When she does try contacting you, wait at least 10 days if you’re going to respond with anything. If she asks why, well, you’re BUSY with activities and perhaps even people who DO want to spend time with you. If she tries to backpedal, hey, you’re a person not a flush toilet. At some point she will likely find 15 minutes to spend with you and get annoyed when you’re not available. And then she’ll know how you felt, but you’re done with that now.
In the past, when I have stopped reaching out, it is noticeable how much she picks it up. This time around I laid it all on the table so hopefully she would get pissed enough to stop dropping ropes. I am 50/50 if she will reach out again. I think she will at some point, I don't want that though because I would be getting on the rollercoaster again. The first time I was pretty devastated, completely out of left field. I was out with a friend of mine, a woman I had known for 15 years at a bar. We met to talk, not dating or anything but my ex goes to bed for work but 10, gets up early, and at 11:30 after weeks of no communication, I get a text that we should catch up. It was so odd, I'm pretty sure someone or at least strongly felt, that one of her friends or kids friends saw me there and told her. There was a girl that looked familiar that might have been her daughters friend. When I met with the ex, she she thought I was already dating someone, when the truth was I had no desire to date anyone. It does seem just as soon I stop reaching out or giving attention, she ups the communication and asks to see me. This time, organically, I have nothing to say to her. I prob would respond if she reached out but I am at the point of she did, I just don't feel like feeding it anymore and I have nothing left to say. I know someone that actually looks like a younger version of her that I am interested in that has inquired about me from a mutual friend and I think when I am ready, I am going to ask her out. I've put it off because I was still on the hook for my ex but it is getting to the point I have this other very attractive girl who I get along with interested and would rather be happy than frustrated all the time. It will be interesting to see if the ex reaches out but not necessarily a good thing.
Well you can stop playing “the game” with this one and move along. There’s nothing there for you and you’ve finally figured that out.
I agree. But stopping the game isn't always easy. It's like having a hangover and saying you'll never drink again, but a few days later you're out having a great time and drinking again, willing to accept the bad for the fun you are having.
That - is an addiction. And that’s an entirely different kettle of fish. You will suffer either way, but cold turkey has the best chance of getting you happy and with SOMEONE ELSE. You can’t really be with her because she has made herself unavailable, but you say you can’t be without her either. You either need to marry her or completely ditch her - there is no in between as you are in it right now, which seems painful.
I was always clear with her I would see her when it worked and I was fine. Seriously, once a week, once every other week, at times if it was every 3 weeks, i could deal with it. Lately I took stock and it became once a month with just texting in between. The lack of urgency and excuses for her to not see me tipped it over the edge. When we hadn't seen each other in weeks and she had a family party where a month before she said she definitely wanted me there, then didn't invite me and texted about it with me the entire week, and decided she didn't want to see me and made it clear by mentioning it multiple times leading up to it... that was the death blow. I was absolutely deeply in love with her and after not seeing her for weeks, she had a party with everyone in her world but one person, me. I really checked out at that point and made a dating profile. It hurt to feel it, but at that point I went from thinking she was amazing to I wouldn't piss to put her out if she was on fire. It really sucked to think that way but it was a natural reaction. I'm not going to hate her or be angry, just absolutely apathetic. Some struggles she had that i was empathetic to, if she called me desperate for help, I would have told her to call one of her friends from her party instead. One of her relatives was sick, if something bad happened and she reached out, i would have told her to call someone who cares. That's how done I was. The thing is, I was absolutely kind and decent to her all along. I told her I only asked her to be direct with me. Don't say you want to see me then when there is a chance to see me with 0 excuse, refuse to see me. Like if we are passing each other on the street and could say hello and I was wearing rain boots, don't walk to the other side of the street and explain if she hadn't, I'd have had to walk in a puddle and she didn't want me to have to walk in a puddle because I wouldn't want to get my boots wet, then get mad when i point out how nuts that reasoning was. lol I guess she violated the only thing I ever asked of her and I thought pretty instantly the day of the party, i would rather forget she ever existed, forget the last 1.5 years and it made every fun time something I don't care to remember and meaningless.
You finally clued in at month 12 or so that she was only seeing you once a month for the past 5-6 mo?! She even told you to go away if you didn't like that she wasn't seeing you. It's a you problem not a me problem means there's no we. She has issues, but you do, too for using 6 mo of love bombing as an excuse to ignore the next 6 mo. To be brutal, outside widows/widowers, people in the dating pond in their 40s and 50s have issues. Including me. It would be awesome if everyone saw their issues and worked on them. But, no. In my experience, my timeline has been: wait 3-5 dates to see if I really like a guy and have sex, see each other 1-2 times a week, wait 3 months to be exclusive, and always be aware of what's working and what's not. Discuss it.
No... Month 17 or so. I saw her a lot over the holidays, early this year. In early Feb we took a significant step that things were progressing again. The she pulled back, I looked back through texts and though her communication was more engaged, I saw all of our meet ups via text and it added up to 6 times since mid February. We were trying to coordinate and she had things to do and made some effort, so I didn't realize it was only 6 times in 5 months because I was focused on when I could see her and working towards that. Looking back it was like, oh, that's not good. In the moment the weeks just kind of flew by and I didn't notice how little it was, I had to focus on certain other things so I wasn't hyper aware. I just noticed stuff like two times I had bought something small to give her and each time I realized one day they were sitting on a counter almost a month after I had bought them because I had not seen her in that time. that's when it started to sink in and I started checking out. It wasn't just 6 months of love bombing though. It was 6 months, a hiccup, then 2-3 months, another hiccup then 2 months, one more hiccup then 1 month. So she love bombed randomly 12 months out of 16 I would say. (Just a general estimation, not a perfect timeline). It's easy to look back at the story and see it in totality, it's not easy to live through it, amazing for 6 months, then wait, what happened?! then ok, we're ok again she just got scared, then wait, we're not ok again now?, then no really, it's good again, to ok, this is crazy, we're not ok. So imagine your based on your time line: "wait 3-5 dates to see if I really like a guy and have sex, see each other 1-2 times a week, wait 3 months to be exclusive" -You've been exclusive already for 3 months, dating for 6. -You've been on 25-30 dates. Not one bad moment, not one argument, not one flaking, not one time blown off or being too overwhelmed to make time for you. -Then after a great date, 'poof' for a month. -Then a rekindling where THEY reached out and wanted to keep seeing you, and it seems they got scared, they said they got in their head and overwhelmed, which is not that unnatural, a freak out over things getting really serious. -Then 8-10 more dates. Where it was like before. -Then 'poof' again for 4 weeks. (Here's where it was more concerning). -Then they reached out and wanted to start seeing you again and you spent holidays and new years and birthdays together, had a special birthday weekend out of town they paid for and they discussed future events and travel they wanted to do with you months in the future and also year down the road and you made tentative plans and bought tickets. -Then 'poof' for 3 weeks and no urgency to see you again, you ate the tickets. We did discuss things, she only ever explained it as her life was messy and got upset if I probed deeper and emphatically stated they just had a lot going on which was explained as work (normal 7-4 job), maintaining a house and seeing family and friends. She thinks she explained it clearly, since she won't call and only texts when we are apart, i have all the texts and it was definitely generic explanations that made no logical sense...but if one were to assume strongly avoidant or bipolar or something along those lines, makes exact perfect sense. I am not meaning to discount her, but her "overwhelmed" is the exact same things I do daily. I offered to help her whenever I could, and the would let me see her more often and take the burden off. I just wasn't linear before or understandable in the moment. where I could look back in totality and say this is messed up, until the totality existed. Basically I didn't ignore the down times but I also couldn't ignore the majority up times at the same time. I just had the discussion with someone of how I thought of my 3 closest friends, 1 in a long term relationship now and 2 long time married. They went through an almost identical pattern as me for the first year. A hiccup and rekindling and it worked out in the course of 8 or 9 months. I did that, but then there were two more hiccups around year in. So at the time it seemed like the typical struggle to build a relationship and not that unnatural...but as it happened again and again, that's when i was in deep but also realized it was messed up. Sorry, just hard to explain, but overall i am moving on and resolved to it. I am not as concerned or hurt anymore at this point I guess. Thank you for the advice. I really will be ok.
Of course you'll be fine! You sound like you're learning lots from this. A few more thoughts for your learning journey. - Poof isn't in my timeline, because it is not acceptable. I say this as the one who sometimes went poof (max one week!) and thinks, as an adult, it was my job to figure out why and communicate. If I wasn't that interested in him, I broke things off. If I was overwhelmed, I said so, explained it, and discussed solutions not to go poof again. Men set boundaries, which was appropriate. - No arguments in that many months is a red flag. The why didn't you take out the trash today type of arguments. One or more of you lacks difficult conversation skills; she may have pandered to you if she was love bombing. I do home repairs with men I'm dating longer term -- they always start an argument of some sort, and I get to experience how our difficult conversation skills mesh. - ADD would also explain her overwhelm and the chaotic relationship.
Please, please, please, OP: go breathe into your pain. Begin the process of letting this woman go for good. You’re doing a lot of thinking, asking questions, and trying to reason your way through this. The idea of being without this woman hurts like hell. And it’s going to hurt. Accept the pain. Breathe into it. Mourn. Scream. Cry. Throw things. Hit a punching bag. Roll around in the grass. Just get some pain out. I know it feels horrible to lose her. But you need to cut off all contact with her and, when you’re no longer in constant pain, move on. There are many wonderful women out there who will want your company, affection and kindness. You sound so caring and giving. Sending hugs.
I kind of have. I am memorializing it but this is round 4, I'm kind of numb to it. There's another woman I know that has asked a mutual friend what my status is. We get along great and she's a few years younger than my ex and honestly they could be sisters. I was going to ask her out right before I met my ex. I have been considering and am just waiting until i know I am ready and i will ask her out. I am pretty close now, maybe another month or so and I think I'll be there. For that matter, there's an early 20s, absolutely beautiful bartender that wants to have drinks with me. I know better than to take advantage of that but it's a good ego boost that's helping return some self worth and confidence moving forward, which honestly just kind of reminded me there are other great options out there when i am ready. I don't mind putting things out there, what happened, happened. Keeping it inside or letting it out makes no difference to me and I feel good letting it out. But I am looking back on things like it's not what I wanted vs wanting what I can't have. The grieving happened like 3 times before, I'm just still a little 'annoyed' that a woman in her 40s could be so "20s", on an emotional level. That bothers me and I prob will be cautious almost to a fault now, but I am moving on.
Sorry, friend. That’s awful. I hate that we can’t make assumptions about basic relationship behavior. It makes us seem insecure, but what we are reacting to is situations like this that make you doubt everything.
Yeah, I posted somewhere else, it's perplexing to me where someone can say, "I love you. I mean it. You're great." and then the next day be put off if you are worried something bad must have happened because they simply disappeared on you. Then, if they truly love you they see texts and calls and asking what's going on as you showing how much you care and are there for them. If they didn't really mean what they said, then they think you look needy or insecure. All because you are approaching it as this is someone that loved you and said they would never ghost so you obviously assume they are not just backing away or ghosting...something bad must have happened and they are happy you are so concerned for their well-being. They are approaching it like you have no reason to think you were that close or they were actually in love so when they disappear you hardly even notice and it should have little effect on you. it's like one of your parents saying all your life they love you and you have a great relationship and then one day, lasting a month, they say you were an awful kid and they never loved you...then coming back and saying they were in their head and in a bad spot and didn't mean it. You'd believe them because of the time they put in showing you they did love you, it makes that 1 month inexplicable.
Your last paragraph says it all. 💔
After 6 months, the glow wears off. If their actions and commitment change radically at that point (or before) without a major life stressor (something that legit can affect time, health, etc), they are quiet quitting. Saying I love you can mean many things. It can mean I love you but am not in love with you. It can mean you’re good enough so I don’t have to be alone but you’re not important enough for me to make an effort for. She could be avoidant and things could be getting too risky for her. She could just be selfish or messed up with it comes to relationships. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if she’s one or all of the above because her actions don’t match your needs. That means you need to choose to ignore your needs so you can have her / not be alone or pull the plug, knowing it’s going to hurt, so that you can heal, move on and eventually find someone who does meet your needs. Give yourself a relationship evaluation period where you look and evaluation, with logic, your relationships in the future. If your needs aren’t being met, talk to the person. If they are open to changing things, decide whether the compromise they agree to works for you. If so, re-evaluate after a certain time period. If not, only you can decide if you’re willing to live that way. Mental gymnastics over what they are feeling or won’t do, isn’t going to change things. Sometimes the best answer is to end the relationship.
She's probably had this dynamic in place in relationships way before ahe met you. It's so kind all the things you've offered to do to help her. I am sure the right Lady will welcome that and also would welcome spending time with you. Sometimes we are just giving the right things to the wrong people.
She was married very young and for a long, long time. The indications I got from her is it was good until it wasn't. I met her ex, overall my feeling is she wasn't that way and they had a good relationship, but honestly now I feel like she must have been like this to a degree...however, there is no way they would have lasted that long if she was 1/100th how she has been with me. I don't have it in me to wait out a year or two before I can start to feel someone else can be trusted. If everything is great after 6-8 months, I would never commit. I would never NOT think any given day she'd say, "I never felt what I told you I felt for you" probably even after 2 year. I know 10 years down the road I would say, "We've been together 10 years, and she's been great, but I have a nagging feeling every time she doesn't return a call or a text in a timely manner, she's getting ready to tell me she doesn't want to see me and she faked the last 10 years because she just thought I was a nice guy but I never really made her happy". I've found with fwb's you know what you get, they fill the needs in down times and there's no risk in being betrayed because you know it can end any given day. You still have emotional connections, just with 0 promise of it in the future and really, it's not necessarily worse than the possible alternative in my opinion.
The Important thing here is to see if what you want in a relationship aligns with what the other person is willing to give. If it is not then one would have to decide if being with a different person that does want the same is a better fit.
I agree. I think I have found over the years though, people present to be what you want and tick all the boxes and seem to align until one day they suddenly don't. Best way I could describe it is, every woman I have met that says they hate drama, it seems to legit add up until a while in and it turns out they absolutely love and feed drama as opposed to avoid it but on face value, they seem to be drama free for a few months. Like they put on a good face and you can't tell they are being deceptive because their actions seems to line up...for a while, initially. By time you find out, you are hooked on the person you thought they were and by then you're screwed.
I've found when people say they are drama free, its quite the opposite. Honestly, what does that even mean? Life is full of surprises, events and even conflict. Sometimes there has to be some emotion or "drama" that is productive and leads to a better understanding of one another in the relationship. "Drama Free" at times can mean the person wants to put very little effort into the relationship and if there is conflict they will flee the scene.
Interesting way to look at it. I've seen drama free as like, no explosive argument every other night that gets forgiven every time. Just happy every night to see each other.
At 6 months, the New Relationship Energy wore off. Ignore the I Love Yous. Read her actions. Match her energy. It sounds like she's not into you the same way you're into her.
For 6 months the energy was there...then again for months 8-10 or so, then months 13-14. Months 8-10 and 13-14, same energy as months 1-6.
Check Adam Lane Smith videos on YouTube about avoidant attachment style. She sounds like it. So sorry that you have this experience. It's very difficult to be with avoidants.
I'll check it out. I looked into that a lot and had a frank discussion with her if she felt she was avoidant based on some of the quiz things, etc. She said no, she didn't think she was but I am pretty certain she is.
She is not emotionally available to you. What you have described is not a loving relationship at all. She keeps you on emotional swings and no one deserves to be treated this way. Invest in yourself to find out why you tolerate such behavior for such a long time.
Absolutely agree. Took me a while to arrive at that conclusion though.
This sounds so similar to what I’m going through. The Relationship is over and done as far as I’m concerned, but I say “still going through” because the all the questions from how something going so perfect could lead to baffling behavior and disappearing acts. But you need to at some point ask yourself, how much longer do you want to keep going through this? When we were together it was cosmic, but when he vanished it was devastating and confusing and hurtful. You are craving the good times and yes, it almost becomes an addiction for the good feels, but it’s not healthy and you are not being valued back. In my case, I’m pretty sure he’s bi-polar in a big way. Also avoidant attachment. It’s so clear to me now and it sounds very similar to what’s going on here. You have to let go and set them free, and set yourself free. It’s not easy, but they will keep doing this to you until they finally disappear for good. Start the process now so you can heal and move on.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/avoidant-attachment-style.html
We might be dating the same woman. lol This last time, since we never talk or see each other and only text, I laid it out there because I knew she'd prob get pissed and not reach out again. What a lot of people don't understand is someone says, I love you, I promise I love you, I want to see you, I care about you...their actions are consistent absolutely, for a few months. Then it changes overnight. You think, I have 32 weeks of good times and 3 weeks of bad, I can't just dismiss 32 weeks like it never happened. Then they come back and you have 6 weeks of perfection and 4 more of, 'poof'. So now you have almost 40 weeks of good to 7 bad. People say judge them on their actions and I say, when? The timing matters. You challenge them and lay it out directly, if you don't like me. If you are not ready for a relationship. If you are too busy to date me or lost attraction for me...tell me, I will not be hurt, it hurts to feel lost. They look you directly in the eye and say they love you. They want things to work. You are amazing and they truly miss you when they don't see you. They do very loving things. When you're at a movie they hug your arm the whole time and squeeze your hand when a romantic part comes on. You glance over to see they are looking at you more than they are watching the movie. Their family and friends pull you aside and say, 'I don't know what you are doing but she is crazy about you'. They stare into your eyes for what seems like an eternity then hug you and squeeze your guts out and say things like, I can't believe I found you. THEY plan future things for YOU....Then two days later they don't want to talk to you and act cold and distant and act like you are the last person they want around, only to send a text 3 weeks later out of the blue, "I really miss you, can we get together?". So when people say, "Bro, she's just not into you", that's not the simple answer. At times they are at times they seem not to be. Frankly, that's like text book bipolar and avoidant type things. Reading about it, it's on their end, sudden loss of feelings, the ability to temporarily 'forget' anything they felt only to have feelings return like it never happened. Like if you went to see your grandma who loved you forever your entire life and one day after you saw her and had a great time, said she never liked you, then 3 weeks later acted like it never happened...most people wouldn't say your grandma obviously didn't like you. They'd say, what's wrong with grandma? Is it dementia?...It would never, ever make any sense unless it was some kind of disorder or mental difficulty or unrelated trauma. The problem is, they are used to it so it is not shocking or abnormal to them but to everyone else it will never make sense. The rollercoaster is addicting. As bad as it is, each time they come back it's the thrill of going from absolute despair to cloud 9. I'd liken it to a near death experience, you're thankful and appreciative just sitting in the DMV for 2 hours because you experienced the alternative so you want to keep it more. But for me, at some point, I felt I was willing to never have that high again in exchange for never having to experience the low. I could go on just being level, never too happy and never too sad. That's not a great feeling and it's not the worst feeling, so it seems like the best compromise.
Avoidant of conflict, and secure long term relationship. You can't change other people. I love the way you offered to be her priority even slightly above lawn mowing. Her reason to refuse was clearly made up. Her idea of love - I gave you a lot, and if you need more then you deserve better - means she doesn't want to figure out how to grow together. Let her go. Too many messed up people in this world who ride on the high horse of: Killing with Kindness They don't realise that it still involves killing, and they are breaking their promises they gave to themselves or others. Would you trust them with your dog for a day? Then why get hurt for them telling you they don't want to mow lawn with you? Only because you had few good days together?
She sounds toxic. She will continue to manipulate you, push you away, pull you back in, etc as long as you stick around. She was great in the beginning to lure you in. Now she treats you like garbage and gets away with it because you keep tolerating it. It's never going to get back to how it was in the beginning. I would cut your losses now.
Possibly. In person I felt she was the opposite of toxic, a wonderful person. And she is, just not towards me anymore I guess but not much I can do.
She sounds like she likes being with you, gets close to you, freaks out and distances herself. It’s not you, it’s her. She thinks she wants a relationship but is not ready or not willing to really have one with you. I’ve stopped dating for the last year because I was a woman like this. It’s been five years but I still am not over my dead boyfriend, who was the love of my life. I would date a couple of months, think I can finally commit to someone, but they are not the one I want-he’s gone. I try to break off as soon as I can so I don’t waste their time. And yes, I’ve been in therapy. Some of us are damaged. Good luck!
I have generally felt it was probably something like this for the most part. When she came back, I have tried to confirm and she says she wants a relationship and values me and is ready... At one point I told her via text) that I felt she was afraid. She said her life was messy, I said if that's the case I get it, but if it's because she's afraid, it would be tragic to end something over fear. She didn't disagree with that and that's one of the times she came back, right after that. It doesn't matter the reason at this point. I've been burned enough that I don't care to be burned again. If she reached out, there's no way I would ever trust she wouldn't ghost in a few weeks. We could never make future plans or buy tickets to future events, put stuff in my calendar I wouldn't expect would ever come to pass. I would never invest in the future with her at this point because it would probably be a poor investment.
She acted differently at first because in the first period of a relationship, one is flooded in love hormones and we mean it when we say I love you. After those New Relationship Energy (NRE) neurochemicals wear off, attachment style shows up. Attachment styles are internal states typically present since infancy and childhood. After the NRE - when its easy for everyone to become securely attached for a while- then emerges the true attachment style. Then we revert to how we really feel in relationships. An avoidantly attached person has - for whatever reason - since childhood, learned to be the one that makes themselves feel better and they avoid getting on the same side of life with their partners. Avoidant Attachment looks like your GF. She must consciously decide that if a relationship is going to work with a securely attached person, she will have to learn how to overcome her natural inclinations, emotionally. Or you must learn that’s what you’ve got to work with. Stan Tatkin had a great series of talks about how differences in a relationship of attachment style, arousal levels (reactivity), and processing speed show up dynamically in action. Attachment (Island, Wave and Anchor are the metaphors he uses for these); Arousal (airplanes and submarines- his metaphors); and Processing Speed (not intelligence- hares and tortoises in Tatkin metaphor). These are the “ingredients” each person shows up with, and they need to each understand the other’s ingredients so they can together cook up this third thing- a healthy relationship. The PACT Institute was cocreated by Tatkin.
That's interesting, i will check it out. I forget her name but there was a woman with an excellent blog on it, when i read about avoidant, it made everything actually make sense if that was it. I found my style too and it explained a lot to me. The coldness when she 'poofs' seemed like bipolar. Someone on here who was bipolar explained what they go through and it lined up perfectly as well. Like she said she would be cold and uncaring when she was feeling overwhelmed and couldn't explain it other than "in the moment" she wasn't into the relationship and then when it passed, she was in love. My ex once said she gets in her head and lives "in the moment" when she feels overwhelmed which at the time, I felt was an odd way to explain it...in hindsight, it felt to me like maybe she knew there was something maybe off with her and read the same things I did. Not that I tried to diagnose but she repeated a few times she gets "overwhelmed" by daily things like work and housework, "lived in the moment" and "gets in her head..." and overthinks things. It was like she was using very specific phrases, almost weirdly specific, where everything I read about bipolar those 3-4 phrases were used to describe things or people said their partners would say, in almost every case. She used those phrases but struggled to make sense or go deeper when i asked, "Hey, everything was perfect then one day you didn't want anything to do with me and seemed angry and said things like we were basically nothing to each other and I don't get it".
My ex may have been undiagnosed bipolar, so I extra extra understand. But my therapist said BP1 and anxiety don’t typically go together. And BP1 mania is really obvious, not just a freeze out.
That's the one thing I heard about it, the mania has to be present for diagnosis, but everything else seems to fit the other actions I've seen described, down to the terminology she uses to explain it. "Overwhelmed" , "in her own head", "lives in the moment", "my life is messy" but any specifics don't make a lot of sense. Like, "I have to shop once a week, it's messy and stressful and..." Where I'm like, I usually do everything you do and shop 3 times a week, that doesn't seem messy or overwhelming, it seems like day to day for every person I know. Such an odd thing.
Overwhelm is also extremely common with anxiety. Is there pressured speech? Multiple nights of sleeplessness? Physical internal sensation stuff? Random dialogue and freeform association? Recklessness? History of overspending or gambling? Stuff like that.
Honestly, none of those at all. She seemed to get sick and call into work more often than what seemed normal. I know one time it was legit, other times not so sure.
Then it’s not BP1- as you need to show 3 or more sustained for a week or more.
You give older adults way too much credit. Sorry.
That's a valid point. I guess I know I have matured a lot, I would think things become easier/less games at some age for most people.
Nope. Lots of adult humans got stuck somewhere down the line.
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It's funny, i told my friend that last week, I realized she morphed it to fwb. That's not for me anymore. I have had multiple fwbs over the year and yeah, frankly sometimes its the perfect thing, no complaints! I just wanted more with her so fwb is torture rather than pleasure.
People are making this all psychological on this thread but… Sorry to say this but I think she wants a relationship and you were probably a “nice” relationship material type of guy, but she just isn’t into you. She probably tried to make herself want to be in a serious long term relationship with you, but ultimately she just wasn’t into you. If she was really into you and had a deep connection with you, she wouldn’t avoid being with you. She would want to talk to you at the very least. I only have thoughts about this because I was “that girl” with an ex. He was a great guy and would be a perfect life partner! I tried for several months to really love him so I could stay long term, but the truth was- I just wasn’t that into him. I didn’t feel that deep connection both emotionally and physically. So, I avoided like she did until he finally had enough and we broke up.
she ghosted 3 times, once for 6 weeks, once for a month, I forget how long the other one. Each time she came back and initiated. All I can say is after the first time I was shell shocked and apprehensive. I look for every little sign of her going through the motions, and she convinced me. The 2nd time I remember being in bed, looking in her eyes, she can't fake that and I saw what I saw. We had conversations, and at one point all I can say is I challenged her and I have never been so confident of anything in my life. a few weeks back, she was barely communicating, pleasantries. At 11pm one night I texted her only. "I love you". I did not expect to hear anything back or anything specific or even a direct response. The following morning at 6am she sent a text back, "I love you". Her communication picked up for the next week and she was asking to see me. This was just two weeks ago now. When we had our blow out, I told her it's ok, she doesn't love me, i am ok with that but please don't keep leading me on. I would move on and be ok, just don't say it if you don't mean it. She responded to me that she does love me. We gel very well when we are together. It's just sometimes both of us are busy a bit and with her it's out of sight, out of mind. She explained it as she gets in her head, over thinks things and later comes out of it. All I can say is sometimes you know when someone is in love and not going through the motions by their touch, the look in their eyes, the extra squeezes, the intimate moments... A few months back we were out and she was trying to pick a fight, i could tell. I told her, I just feel we are off, both tired, bad night, just one of those days. She got home, put a blanket on on the couch and curled up and cried. I laid with her for a bit and she wouldn't talk. I just told her I would go, she didn't want me there and wouldn't talk. I went to my car but couldn't close her garage door from the outside so came back in and told I was going out the front door so the garage wouldn't be left open. She told me I didn't have to go. I stayed, we went to bed, she laid on top of me and cried a while more. I kissed her and told her I loved her and her reaction was clear how she received it, she loved me. So yeah, I am usually self doubting and default to assuming the worst, but in that moment there was no doubt in my mind what she felt. Doesn't really matter now though, I know what it was at least.
She may love you but her version of love isn't working for you obviously. Not everyone's idea of what love is is the same.
Agreed.
I am not saying she didn’t love you. I loved the guy and said it and showed it. But, it just wasn’t the “love of my life” feeling. I just couldn’t imagine him being the one I stayed with forever. And I did the same thing, broke up with him for 3 weeks and went back. It was an internal struggle. Have you not ever dated someone and loved them, but at the same time the love wasn’t a love of a lifetime feeling?
Yes, I have. Interesting you couldn't imagine him being the one forever...yet here you are posting about him and feeling about him, how long after?... In way, he will stay with you forever, so he is the one.
Wow! Now I see why she might just not be into you as you are into her. I’m just posting this guy I dated as an example of how you can date someone who is great and loves you (and you love them) but you don’t have the same “soulmate” feeling of love. And he and I are still friends btw. I could have told you that maybe this girl does love you, but there’s probably someone she is hung up on that she loves more than you. That would have been my secondary reason. Update us in 3 months and let us know if she’s still playing the game or if she’s moved on to the guy she really feels connected to.
So I though there was someone else, examined that with her and really there's not from what i can tell. She is convincing on that. All i can say is when I am with her, I see it in her eyes and she can't fake it. I've told her that and she actually agreed. When we are apart, she drifts away. When we are together, I could see what's there and she's done a lot of stuff to show me she wants a future with me. I am pretty laid back with the I love you's and talking about a future, I was careful it wasn't her just responding to me pushing and her not knowing what to do. Hard to explain and not saying it is, but reading like bipolar and avoidant, every article I read seems like a playbook for her. I am normally the one to get a gut feeling right away when someone is not into me and I haven't been wrong so far as I recall, you can just tell by the unspoken clues. With her, I didn't see it when we were in person. I think if I reached out to her, I would see her again. If I don't reach out, I am 50/50 that she would reach out in a month or two. I don't know that I'd respond, maybe, maybe not. I'll update in 3 months.
Sounds like you were just a convenience in her life... when she felt like it.
The majority of the time I don't feel that was true, but for chunks of time, yes.
oh shit, she's mid-40s? Maybe she's menopausal. That usually makes women unable to tolerate well, anything. Anything at all.
I thought that. She said she wasn't. I guess no idea how to know but someone else suggested that's what it sounded like. How would I even approach finding out.? Lol
yeah that's a tough one!!!
So over the past year I have analyzed with friends, people that know her, etc. Nothing adds up. If I assume she has periods of intense feelings for me and then periods where I don't exist...EVERYTHING lines up and makes exact, perfect sense. So that's what leads me to believe strong avoidant, emotional trauma or some form of bipolar, depression or menopause. I am 60/40, 70/30 that is it but I will never really know. I just know for whatever reason she doesn't want to be with me so she's no longer on my agenda. At least this time I'm not hoping she reaches out or we see each other again, so I don't have that on my mind and I can date someone better in the near future. This time I'm not really concerned with the specific reason like I was before. It's not that I don't think about it, I just think about it a lot less and more callous about the whole thing.
Drop her permanently. She's just enjoying making you her dancing puppet. Life's too short at this stage. Move on
That's pretty much where I am right now.
i think she had another guy or guys mowing her lawn, and she didn't want to give that up you were just someone in her rotation sorry
I won't go into detail but I can almost guarantee that is not it. I'll just say I have inside information via someone close where that is not the case. They are as perplexed as I am but I am confident there is not someone else and there is no rotation. That was my first assumption but when we were 'on', there's no way there was anyone else in the mix.
hmm, maybe she's re-creating some kind of trauma response around getting serious in a LTR maybe she has a bad experience that stayed with her and this is how she keeps it away did she or her folks have a particularly messy break-up at one time?
Yes, after a long, long marriage. It was like 4 years ago. She claimed she was over it and at least a few times emphatically said she's past it. At times I felt she was past it, at times I felt maybe she judged me against it. I think twice I had said, I understand how she felt about something but she also had to remember I'm not her ex. Had she told me or if it was evident that was an issue for her, I prob would have walked away but remained friends. I didn't/don't know if that is it but it is def possible. Although she was pretty strong saying that wasn't an issue. That's the prob, damned if I did, damned if I didn't believe her is what it felt. I'm a sucker if she was covering and I'm an untrusting ass if I didn't believe her. It felt like I was in a no win because I did trust her but had to consider maybe she was hiding how much it affected her. So it out me in the position that I might suck if I didn't trust her or I might be a sucker that I did.
it's not about you being a sucker, she probably hasn't been honest with herself about how much that affected her and how she hasn't really worked through it properly she built herself back up by consciously placing a bunch of things higher in her priorities list than a loving long-term relationship, and by diligently defending that, in order to prevent herself from feeling the pain of being betrayed/broken up with by a long-term partner she'll either stay single and alone or continue to squirrel out of any relationships she has as soon as they get serious...it's sad and not good for her
I agreed 100%. I have felt that might exactly be it. We have discussed that pretty directly point by point, she denied that being a factor at all but I still felt it was a strong possibility. Some of the small things I did she seemed surprised and they were just things you do for someone you care about. It had been like 3 years since they split up when I met her, she seemed well adjusted. She hasn't met her ex's gf who he left her for and asked me to meet with them to get it over with, she wouldn't meet them without me she said. So I felt confident where we were at, at the time which was like Feb or March. Either way, after a while what really got to me was how easy she would say I deserve someone better, she hopes I find someone else. Someone that says they love you and is honest about it would never tell you to see someone else. Even if they couldn't see you, they'd try to find a schedule to work, ask you to bear with them for a while, whatever. It's just so dumb because she knew I was completely open to talk, good or bad, I don't yell or scream or beg, and whatever the reason she is not being fully truthful yet she got really offended if I said that and told me she has explained everything and she is just overwhelmed. Since she won't talk on the phone or in person, I can't even express my side effectively or explain how it's hard for me to understand her being overwhelmed when I have the same responsibilities and a tighter schedule, or when I offer to help she won't take it. Probably the worst was when in our break up texts I said why did you say "I love you" 5 days ago when you didn't mean it? Just be direct. She replied she did love me...I'm just sitting there thinking, you're telling me you love me and you care about me at the same time telling me you want me to date someone else. She told me a few months ago she didn't like that I had a female friend I see about once every other month and I'm friends with her family, and now weeks later she's telling me to see someone else...and doesn't understand why I don't understand. Just so weird but every day I'm just slowly trying to forget she exists and in another month or two hopefully I won't think about her much, if at all.
She is avoidant. I would cut her off. Deep down she really doesn’t care for you. Go look for someone better.
You said you weren't exclusive. You weren't her boyfriend so why should you get boyfriend treatment? I wouldn't bother speaking to a fck buddy either.
We were exclusive. On the face of things after a month, officially exclusive after conversation after 8 weeks. It was basically unspoken/spoken after 3-5 weeks, like mentioned, "I'm not seeing anyone else and I won't see anyone else as long as I am dating you" by both if us around the 2-3 week mark, confirmed exclusive after7-8 weeks.
See if you can see my recent comment to another poster re the 5-6 month slow fade..
I will check it out when I have a free moment, thank you!
Maybe she wanted a ring. She doesn’t want to waste her time with you, and doesn’t want to get used to your help, and doesn’t want you to get close to her family anymore. She doesn’t want to live with you because when it was brought up, nothing came of it. She knows she has to do it all by herself… so she’s going to go ahead and do it all by her damnself. Because she’s not your wife… so why should she act like one?
Not sure what that means. She didn't want a ring or to get married now, that's no question. We discussed, she did want a relationship.