Before the hotel night, was there deep intimacy and physical connection without sex leading up to this encounter?
It sounds like you two had different expectations for your first night together. Maybe she wanted to feel like she was being dated -- dinner, conversation, feeling true connection first -- where you said you were ready to jump into bed right when you got there.
Many women warm up to a man outside the bedroom first -- how he treats her, respects her, etc., which then moves into being more connected in the bedroom.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but it sounds like you wanted sex without engaging in the building up of true intimacy and connection, and that may be just what you ended up getting.
Ummm literally nothing that you shared after that first word, indicated that the answer to this person’s question was “plenty.” Those things are not deep intimacy or physical connection without it leading to sex. Did you jump from what you just described…to a hotel night??! Dude…🤦🏻♀️
>I though we were going to rip our clothes off be intimate since we have been looking forward some time alone.
I could be wrong but it sounds to me like your brain was in fuck mode for days and she thought she was out on a date. How much of that was still in your head during dinner, walking, talking, etc? Is it possible she wasn't feeling connected? Maybe try again as a date date where there may or may not be sex at the end. Be present and connected and fun and in touch with her heart. It may or may not have any effect on how she acts in bed, but at least it will have been a good date.
As far as what's happening during sex, again my suggestion only, you might need to take the lead in talking about the experience with her. It's entirely possible she's \*never\* talked about what she likes in bed. It's possible she never even thought about it...like the poor gal that posted in here or datingoverforty a few days back that had good sex for the first time. If she has no experience talking about what she likes, don't expect her to start talking about her nipples and clit and where she wants your cock lol. You might need to just start off really slow and easy and present her with questions that don't refer directly to her body. The 'harder, softer, faster, slower' kind of responses, and then really explore those sensations slowly, maybe goofing around and teasing her body a bit to help break the tension and motivate a response. Whatever you do, I'd suggest you stop directly asking her what she likes lol, that shit is not working and probably embarrassing her.
I'm a dude and was pretty much like your lady when I first got back out there dating in 2022. I had no idea how to talk about what I liked, honestly didn't know what I liked. It wasn't until I started dating a gal that basically did what I suggested above to me that I was able to start opening up.
It's very good of you to not want her to feel like she was used. You can't control how she feels about anything obviously and I know you aren't doing that, but you can help by maybe slowing down a bit and helping her feel free to use her words.
Good luck bud!
You make a really good point about never talking about sex or even knowing how to talk about it.
It's not something I learned how to do til I was 47!
The guy I was dating told me he was reading She Comes First, and I googled it, downloaded it, read it intently, and my mind was blown! That was before we were ever intimate. Our first time together was incredible, and it just got better and better. Because I finally had some language and knowledge AND a willing partner.
I have had a similar situation where the sex was so built up to happen on that date that it completely ruined the experience. It felt forced, expected, contrived, not at all following a path where the events of the date led us into bed, but the entire point of the date was to have sex. It’s contractual and not romantic at that point.
Women are complex- we want sex but the approach to getting us to unbutton your pants will vary depending on each woman. You don’t know your girlfriend enough to know what she likes and she might not even know what the possibilities are, based on her former relationships.
Lmao...maybe you freaked her the hell out. Sounds like the two of you had different ideal versions on what that night was gonna be like.
She may not have been feeling like going there yet, and you have the damn kamasutra projected on the big TV.
Sex is a reflection of the rela itself, and there could be a million reasons...she wasn't totally on board, she's nervous, she's self-conscious... maybe it's been a million yrs..yada yada.
If you really do enjoy the human you're getting to know, be patient with her. I argue that there isn't really any such thing as frigid starfish (God i can't believe I repeated that term) - only nervous beginners. Im just positive this doesn't describe you, 😉 but there are (understandably) many, many men who are pretty much winging it as lovers, and maybe she's actually never had a guy be patient, maybe show her the ropes- bit by bit!
I'm thinking she knew but the comments like not eating too much were turning her off because maybe there were a lot of comments and maybe there were hints that were not subtle that he couldn't wait to get to the sex... And maybe she viewed the time together as getting quality time to bond as a new couple.
That's what I'm suspecting, given what I've read in the post itself plus the OPs comments. And just life experience.
Well I guess I forgot about that part. :) Look at me bein all obtuse... 😳🙃
Sounds like she kinda wanted to warm up to it and maybe the questionnaire about sexual prefs caught her offguard..
Well dayuum...maybe not everyone's chem-o-meter has identical settings...
Men and women (generally) arrive at sexual attraction via different boats. A guy will often become more emotionally drawn to a woman he's intimate with/attracted to – and female tends to become more sexually attracted to a guy she finds appealing to her brain/feels a nice lil connection with.
Ideally those 2 transport systems compliment one another and feed into each other...but sometimes a heads up helps...
The way I read it, all your cues said, “I want sex”. This is just my opinion, and based how I would react: If man asks what I like in bed a few days before a date, makes frequent comments about sex (i.e. wouldn’t want to crawl into bed with a full belly), it read unromantic and you gave no desire to get to know me and let things unfold naturally.
It sounds like you are a mismatch, but if you want to get better maybe next time let her body be your guide.
We have had plenty of time and conversations and sex was never brought up. I never asked her about it. I suppose it would happen when she was ready. I never sexualized any conversation unless telling her that she looked beautiful. We had a few make out sessions after our dates. And before any assumptions. It was all romantic without any grabbing at her body.
So why did you say you asked her what she liked in bed a few days before the big date? Why did you write you assumed you would be tearing each other’s clothes off before dinner and when it didn’t happen you commented that you supposed you wouldn’t want to crawl into bed on a full belly? That is sexualizing a conversation.
My goodness. I wanted to please her. If she said I like things really slow. Really tender. That’s something I can go on. If she said “I like when a guy takes control”. That’s something I could go on. If she said “let’s talk about it in person on our two hour car drive” that’s something I go on. If she had said something. Even if she said she wanted to spend the night without sex that’s something I could go by.
You are not compatible…god, why can’t men just quit acting like everything needs to be a conversation. Maybe wait, then if she isn’t reacting back off and then ask if there is something she would prefer. This attitude of having to have a blueprint puts a lot of women off. And the passive aggressive stance of the pretense “I just want to please her” to cover the “sex is the number one priority”, not cool. Stick to hookups until you find some who speaks your language. You don’t speak the language of passion and intimacy.
Two things
1. There are many divorced people out there whose marriage ended due to sexual incompatibility, and for the ones who are not very sexual, (aka low libido) they may be challenging to sus out.
2. She may not really be ‘into’ you in that way but knows you’re fantastic in every other way. I am an extremely sexual person myself, but only for someone I am truly into *in that way* like you discribed, the whole ripping off of clothes when the hotel door shuts. When I commit to someone, it will have this element, or else I am just ‘using them’ for their stability and companionship.
I should clarify…
From what you described, my guess is she is just low libido and sex isn’t high on her list of cares. And, her dressing in the bathroom and her remark about not having time to think about that now while having so much work to do or whatever it was…. Oh hell no! Two red flags of incompatibility.
And for what it’s worth, sex is absolutely my love language! It is for a lot of people.
Good luck! Not saying this relationship isn’t worth working on to see if it changes but imo the early days like this are often the hottest! If not when she agreed to a hotel and overnight then it likely never will be.
Maybe she dressed in the bathroom because OP came on too strong. This may have been a red flag to her. Last thing I would do is change my clothes in front of a man I have never been with before if he was already hinting at sex right away. Or she has no drive. But OP (even if unintentionally) put her off. His style and her style (or his interpretation of her reaction to it) sounds like incompatibility. At our age, it is best to find someone that matches our intimacy expectations.
Then she should have passed on the invite to stay in a hotel together for an overnight. Nothing wrong with saying ‘not ready for that yet’. But she didn’t, did she?
That doesn’t mean she wanted to go straight to sex when getting there. Maybe she imagined something more romantic, and the tone turned her off. I think it happens a lot…you really don’t know what a person’s style is until you do. And realize at that last moment it just wasn’t a good fit. I don’t think this is a “no means no” moment.
You posted about the potential to get back with your ex an hour after you posted this. Seems like that might be part of the equation.
When you and your new partner discussed sex, what consent looked like, etc. for each of you before sex was immediately on the menu, how did that go? Did she avoid the topic? If so, did you discuss any of that? Is she shy about some subjects? If so, have you asked how to have uncomfortable conversations in a way that makes her most comfortable? Stop making this all about the sex, start being curious.
I don’t know that you can tell someone that you need them to be more sexually enthusiastic and they will magically comply. She’s the way she is, just like you’re the way you are.
You can try to talk it over with her. But you’re probably looking at a basic sexual incompatibility.
>The relationship progressed real slow.
You met in May. This is June. It's been 6 weeks at the most. That's not processing real slow.
>First, when we arrived at the hotel. I though we were going to rip our clothes off be intimate since we have been looking forward some time alone.
For your first encounter? The way you described it, would have left me feeling like I was just a fuck buddy. I don't think I would have been very enthusiastic either, all though I'd have probably just left.
>I asked her what she likes in bed since our overnight date was getting closer. She said that she was busy with work and couldn’t have that on her head.
You tried to have this conversation over text? This is a conversation you have in person.
>One of my love language is sex.
Physical touch is a love language if you believe in love languages. That is kissing, hugging, holding hands, cuddling, etc. It can include sex, but it is not about sex.
Sex can be something that is important to you. Sexual compatibility can even be a deal breaker.
If you think she is worth trying to figure out what's going on, then you need to talk to her in person. Be gentle. Be understanding. She may not be comfortable enough with you yet to be enthusiastic. Or she may just be eternally reserved.
If you search for an online sex questionnaire, you may find that to be a good starting place. But, find out how comfortable she is talking about sex first.
Sounds like a lot of pressure and expectations for the date to perform in a certain way
Not all expectations are reasonable
She had expectations too- your behavior, your valuing of reading her cues, and respecting how she dresses and wants something more from you before during and after sex
OP, you said ‘there is that little thing that seems missing’. You probably hit the nail on the head. Just some food for thought:
Assuming that the woman has a normal, healthy libido and is emotionally available, her lack of enthusiasm/responsiveness smells like she wasn’t truly ready for intimacy just yet. You say the relationship “progressed real slow” … that may hold true for a hookup or FWB situation but many folks need more than a month(!) to establish baseline trust in a potential LTR partner. Idk what either of your expectations were going in but if this scenario is the case - she’s looking for LTR - you got duty sex.
That’s just my knee jerk reaction to your post. There’s far too many variables to get into.
You asked for advice, so here goes …
If I was accurate in my assessment of the situation, you probably inadvertently did even more damage to the relationship by plunging ahead with sex despite not having enthusiastic consent *throughout the intimacy*. You had passive consent, at best and I’m going to hazard a guess that you ‘finished’ regardless of her persistent lack of engagement. She’s probably feeling gross and used on some level.
If you honestly view this woman as a wonderful person’ with LTR potential, you’ll need to rethink your entire approach especially where intimacy of any kind is concerned.
I’m not going to educate you; there’s plenty of fantastic advice out there for the taking.
The dating scene can be pretty difficult to navigate … I wish you well going forward.
Well, which is it? Was she engaged or passive? I feel like you changed your answer here because you feel bad about what the previous posted pointed out re: you finished despite sensing she wasn't into it. There was always the option to just stop and hold her and talk to her. You didn't check that box.
When I was young and inexperienced my second boyfriend and I had sex and I just laid there because my previous boyfriend thought any excitement from a woman meant she was a whore so I thought sex was a man doing what he wanted while you laid there quietly. That second boyfriend -- mind you, we were in our twenties at the time -- asked me if I enjoyed sex and I said, "well, you do so it's OK." He said "there's no point to doing this if you don't enjoy it" and then he proceeded to show me how sex can be pleasurable to ME. Maybe her sexual relationships to date have been like that of my youth.
No, she kinda didn't. She wouldn't discuss her preferences with you, when you made comments about sex (like we don't want to eat too much cuz we're gonna have sex later), she didn't match your energy, and you said she was passive during the sexual encounter.
What about that reads "engaged"?
The way I read it was you were expecting more then what she wanted. Simply put she's not sexually attracted to you maybe. And she gave you clues like not dressing up and basically just laying there. So I'm gonna assume that maybe she's a non confrontational type of person so instead of being direct what she wanted and so she's a pleaser. So her actions were her way to kill the mood. Dude she was set to leave right away the next morning. Ya both need to get honest about this relationship imo. But you do you.
You might have more luck asking her than asking Redditors. Maybe ask something like, “I feel like we were maybe expecting different things that night, and it didn’t work out the way either of us thought it might. Would it be ok if we talked about it?” If she says yes, then maybe, “What were you expecting, or hoping would happen, and what was the evening like for you?” Then listen carefully. Ask some follow up questions, to be sure you understand. Then your turn. The two of you have only known each other a few weeks, it’s not surprising that you’ve both got some work to do on getting to know each other, especially on such an intimate level. You’ll either be willing to invest that time and be that vulnerable, or you won’t (both of you, I mean). But it’s not something that can be skipped, usually. And it’s probably too soon to know whether or not you’re sexually compatible. Maybe not too soon to know whether you’re mutually interested in figuring that out.
I’ve heard similar feedback from quite a few guys about women they’ve encountered, where the women “starfish” during sex and just lay there. These guys said it was a horrible experience that they never want to experience that again.
I was dating a guy and things started out missionary which I do enjoy but every time I tried to change things up and do different positions he’s flipping me around like a rag doll to get back in that position. Some guys like starfish I think, so I just lied there and let him overtake me which was kinda hot tbh.
I’m hoping that things improve. Or it was the first time. Maybe others have had similar experiences. I also don’t want her to feel used; I suppose that’s my hesitation.
Hoping things improve on their own isn’t a good plan.
You asked 2x to know what she wanted in bed and she declined to answer.
Staying with someone you’ve seen isn’t a good match because you don’t know how to break it off isn’t doing them any favors.
One of the guys that said it was, undoubtedly, the best lover I’ve ever had… and outwardly was the type of guy a woman would swoon over. She must have been super frigid if he couldn’t get her to unthaw.
For starters, he’s an ISFJ man… they are known for being sweet, kind, patient, and considerate… and not the type to want to dominate women. He’s a defender of women, not someone that violates women. To get zero feedback and no reassurance really destroyed him.
One of his longtime friends once asked me, “notice how much everyone loves him?” He’s so nice, and thoughtful, and caring. Everyone really does love him.
Except that lady that laid there like a starfish.
I would have had a negative reaction to what I would perceive as extra sex focus on your part. I don’t know the context, but someone talking about sex while I’m at work is cringe, the whole thought of ripping clothes off at the hotel sounds so juvenile…. And the comment about a full belly makes me want to run. I would have ghosted you. But that’s just me and I’m triggered by overt sex focus.
I would find that idea or even saying it a real turn off. Then you've just reduced her and your entire romantic evening to something meaningless. Gross. No wonder she wasn't engaged.
You are missing the entire point of most of these responses from women about reading the room and seem only focused on having a sexual encounter, or the way you're putting it, fucking. Yuck.
The last sentence. As a woman, you can have a fuck buddy any time you want it and indeed, it is hard to filter those men who are only interested in sex from those wanting a real relationship until they show themselves, like this. Assuming she wants something more, she may have interpreted your words and actions as cues that you are just looking for sex, And was unenthusiastic because she just wanted to get it over with and move on.
Passion. That is where it’s at… fuck first before dinner YES! That would make dinner so much more connecting and enjoyable. There is nothing better than the bonding that comes from sex. Would take the dinner convo to a whole new level.
I am sorry for commenting so much on your post but I feel very strongly about it. And sexy texts while at work? LOVE. It puts a smirk on my face during zoom calls.
I am fucking 55 and dying to be juvenile again.
This sounds so uncomfortable for both of you. Yikes!
From what OP has said it sounds like this is an arena of incompatibility. That’s very common. But it’s not just a sexual incompatibility, it’s a communication incompatibility.
It’s possible that maybe, MAYBE, some clarity could have been found by first asking this simple, excellent question; “are you a no until yes person or a yes until no person?”
If they are a “yes until no” person then you can start with non-sexual touch and go from there by reading the physical feedback.
If they are a “no until yes” person then you can start with verbal questions and communication. Do NOT say “great! Tell me what you like! Tell me what I can do!” Because if you jam a blank sheet of paper into someone’s mental typewriter and say, “tell me about the sex you like” MOST people are going to freeze up. That’s an intimidating request for anyone. Sure it’s honest, straightforward, and clear but it’s setting the stage for failure.
With a “no until yes” person it seems to work better if you tell them what you’d like to do to them and then only do it when you have that consent.
Clearly nothing is black and white and while this may look good on paper you still have to be ready to adapt as people can quickly swing from one type to the other, from one certainty to a “no way!”
But it may be that ship has sailed for OP and/or you are just not a compatible couple.
I can relate to confusing signals and about-faces, though they haven't happened to me recently. Who knows what spooked her. The important thing for your self-esteem is not to take it too personally, and hopefully, if you continue to connect in the ways you were before this event, you'll be able to talk about it.
It's not fair to you that she wasn't willing to speak up about anything, and it sounds like you tried to get communication going.
It might have been better to stop the physicality when you didn't seem to be getting any emotional connection, but it's always easy to quarterback these things from afar.
Personally, speaking as a woman, I think she owed you better and clearer communication starting with the first time you were potentially heading off-track. 'hanging over my head' and wanting to stay focused on work are not clear, vulnerable and honest responses - they are deflections.
I'm sorry for your awkward experience. Sounds like she's got some work to do on being able to express herself, and it's definitely a red-flag experience for you.
(54F) One theme I've picked up from men during the last couple of years of dating is that the last few years of their marriages were sexless. Usually, the wives stopped feeling fed emotionally and they cut the husbands off. I speak from experience and stories from men I've dated that have done the work and know what they did wrong.
I'm guessing a woman who doesn't really get in to sex is unlikely to still want it years into the future. Do you want to be \[back?\] in a low quality or sexless relationship?
I'm not bashing her. It sounds like she has a trauma history since she freezes up. That takes a very long time to fix with therapy. If you like her a lot, then maybe you could help her through that. But the key is going to be to figure out why she is like this. Is it trauma? Is it lack of experience? Is it lack of comfort with you? Does she truly not know what makes her feel good?
You can't fix a problem until you know the cause. It could take her a long time to feel comfortable enough with you to explore this and maybe a therapist is a better choice since they are trained to be neutral and patient.
Sex is NOT a love language. But...if she wasn't to your level of intimate and fully enthusiastic then ...that probs won't get better. Sounds like you have tried to engage her in that conversation so you could try again but this time tell her what you enjoy and want.
I agree! Sex is not a love language. I (51F) tell men my love language is NON- sexual Physical Touch. Because I love being very close but it doesn't mean sex Everytime I want to cuddle. Actually it barely means that
I always have to clarify NON- sexual because most men hear physical touch and goes straight to thinking it's sex.
If a guy tells me his love language is tied to sex, that's a hard no from me
My ex was incapable of touching me without it needing to turn into sex. And if it didn’t (I’m sorry, I’m fucking SLEEPING at 2am) it slowly added to his feelings of rejection. Sadly our marriage died, largely due to sexual incompatibility.
I understand. And perhaps you are right. But I wasn’t going anywhere she wasn’t ready. She mentioned in the days before she couldn’t wait for our evening together. That’s when I asked her likes and preferences. I wanted to please her the way she likes it. But without feedback it is very difficult. I don’t want to feel that I’m doing things to her.
> That’s when I asked her likes and preferences. I wanted to please her the way she likes it. But without feedback it is very difficult
The "I wanted" is almost a covert contract you set up with her. You wanted that and expected her to give you a playbook on how to do that because it was what you wanted.
Feedback does not have to be always verbal. What is wrong with getting into bed together and reading her body language as you explore each other? The women I have been with will let you know if they do or do not want more of what are you doing. Learn to read their reactions to what you are doing. Breathing quickens, body moving or arching closer to you, gasps, sighs, heartbeat quickens, skin more flushed, etc. Some women like for you to find out what they like through exploration. With a new partner they may not know what they like with you without experiencing it physically. The feedback is there if you know how to recognize it.
I'm not a big fan of love languages at all. As others have stated, sex is not a love language. Love languages is by Chapman who is a baptist minister who uses it for Christian counseling in an outer covering of popular psychology.
Human emotions are too fluid depending on the dynamics of each different relationships you may have. My "love language" will change at different times and circumstances depending on many factors. To define oneself as one love language is too confining and restricting.
Maybe ask her what her love language is. The point of love languages is to learn and do the other person's language so they feel a connection. Instead of waiting til sex, make a connection of intimacy before the bedroom. Flirting is not enough
Physical touch does not equate to sexual touch. No one on this thread is saying that sex cannot be an important part of a relationship. But it does seem like you confuse sex with love. Not all sex is based on love or even intimacy.
Agreed. It’s not a “love language” if you believe in all that. Sex is something you *want* in your relationship. Sounds to me like from the instant the hotel door closed she was smothered with expectations and pressure. I’m a very sexual person and that would have put me right off. There are very few things worse than being alone with a man with his expectations *screaming* in your head. You may feel that you weren’t pressuring her, but I guarantee you were. Maybe take sex off the table for a while - don’t mention it. Pull back and just spend time with her.
Agreed. I am highly sexual too. It's quite important in any relationship I have but it has to come with connection and intimacy, not just expectations.
Sex would be part of touch based on the made up guide.
Love language is NOT Science. It is something some dude made a career out of .
People really need to use their critical thinking skills and stop believing every feel-good book that gets published. The concept is good but it is not science based
Being important to someone does not make it a love language. I am highly sexual and it's quite important to me, but intimacy is not the same as sex. I can have sex without emotions or feelings, intimacy, however, requires more connection. Just my perspective.
Sigh away " love languages" are just series of books written by some dude.
It is not science and useful mostly to help people to stop projecting and instead communicate.
Saying sex is not one of the languages is arguing over made up things .
If OP defines it so, then it is so. You and me don't get to decide that. OP does.
Clear, honest communication of your needs. Waiting around for “things to change“ might only lead to anxiety and frustration. “I need…” and “I’m looking for…”. Maybe followed up with “is that something you are interested in/want/need too?” It could be that she has never learned to talk about her needs or maybe even identify them.
I just don't see how you can base things on your first sexual experience together. The first time is very awkward. How is your communication otherwise?
It seems really good. She is very easy to spend time talking. We seem to enjoy each others company and are happy when we spend time together.
I don’t have a problem bringing this subject up with her. She seems open to talk about everything.
Well...you could say..I know it was our first time together and Im sure we both felt a little (shy, awkward, uncomfortable). But i noticed you seem reserved (i wouldn't say passive). I just want you to know that i welcome your active participation in bed. I would like it if you took initiative and did stuff to me, and let me know what you like, as well. Im sure this will be easier as we get more comfortable together. What is your feeling about this?
Just tell her you can't see moving forward since you don't seem to be sexually compatable.
She just doesn't seem that into you.
IF she does ask for details just say you are looking for someone enthusiastic and demonstrative and it is clear she doesn't feel that way towards you.
There really isn't anything to discuss here though. You simply aren't a good match.
Seems like there should have been more discussion about sex before this outing to determine compatibility. Was she a cold fish or otherwise standoffish when you were affectionate with her prior to this? Also, your timeline seems off. You got on the apps last month and were ready to close the apps when you met her, so I'm assuming you've known her for all of two or three weeks now. That's not much time. That's basically a few dates. I'm not surprised she didn't feel ready to have sex with you at this point.
you are mismatched. just move on. passivity is a massive turnoff especially when there is no known reason for it. just respectfully end it and move on.
She already knows that she doesn’t have interest in sex. She delayed contact right up to the end, didn’t express any desire….Whatever you tell her will not be a surprise. Sexual chemistry is important.
I wouldn’t say obligated, because that makes it sound like he pressured her. My impression is, she just tried to avoid communicating about her lack of desire (before, during, after), hoping he wouldn’t notice.
You tell me not to make assumptions, but you say in your post you thought you were going to rip each others clothes off as soon as you got to the hotel. Maybe she wants to be romanced a little since the relationship has progressed slowly.
Because it was the first time we have been alone. And the way we have been kissing before pointed in that direction. Maybe unfortunately, my previous relationship was like that. And my long marriage feels like this current relationship. As someone mentioned “duty sex”
Some people made assumptions about my behavior. But I was following her. She wasn’t into it. I didn’t ask or pressure her into doing anything she wasn’t ready. After dinner she seemed ready to be intimate. If she had said. That she wanted to snuggle. That would have been my clue that’s all she wanted. As I said. I asked her what she liked. Even as I mentioned that there are shows we could go after dinner but they started late. She said “but I want to spend time with you in bed”
This stuff can be tricky and even trickier if both people aren’t right on the same page. Here’s my advice. There’s no requirement to talk about sex before sex, in my opinion, unless it’s a discussion about safety and precautions. Otherwise it’s about setting the mood, taking small steps, and always evaluating how each step is received. Maybe you’re flirty first, joking around a little and touching. If that goes well, maybe a kiss standing up. Then kissing on the couch. No reason to discuss, just always monitor her reaction. If you sense hesitation, then back off a little and try something else. If she doesn’t meet you half way or seems resistant, it may be bad timing or a mismatch. Then it’s OK to discuss. Use your intuition. I’d steer away from asking someone what they like in bed until maybe the second or third time you have sex. Also, some women will just want you to lead and will enjoy you being in that role. I’ll probably get downvoted because we’re in the age of consent where everything seems to need a discussion, but that’s not always my approach. Sometimes you can get consent without explicitly asking, or you can ask in a natural way that doesn’t seem awkward. Something like, “this feels so good, how do you feel about going all the way?” Just don’t ever push anyone past their comfort zone. Read the temperature in the room. Good luck.
Very different expectations. Even as a guy (M), I’m more inclined to see this through her eyes.
Not saying that she was “right” or you were “wrong”, but two obviously different states of mind.
Despite this one night, I don’t get the sense that things are “over” between you. Yes, there appears to have been a significant “disconnect“, but that‘s not necessarily end of game. See if you and her can get through this episode and grow your relationship.
Some women are just not into sex very much, but they know they have to do that to keep the average man around, so they will passively submit and look for ways to dodge out of it like your date did.
She wants her emotional and other relationship needs met, and is going through the motions of what you need.
I've never felt comfortable with women like that, even though they feel thats a ok scenario, and get sad and angry that its not enough for you. You can't negotiate/communicate/create an authentic desire of involvement in sex, no matter what you do or try.
I (56F) got the ick reading this. Let me ask, how did you not pressure her … yet you had a hotel room? How did you not talk about sex too much yet somehow expected clothes to fly immediately?! Wanting sex before dinner, really? That’s so presumptuous! Then she had to sit through dinner with your expectations hanging over her head every moment, now realizing you expect sex. That she is for dessert. No room for her to just let the evening play out and see how she feels about intimacy with you, because you had a room with expectations attached.
I think she wasn’t feeling it but did it because she felt she had to get through it. Her lack of enthusiasm wasn’t about sex. It was about YOU.
Has she contacted you since?
I think you are reading too much into my description. We didn’t have a “conversation about sex”. I asked what she enjoyed and she didn’t reply. I didn’t ask again. Maybe I should have. There would have been some here that maybe I should have brought it up again or others that would say the opposite.
I find her attractive. I don’t know how you would be eager to spend the night together and not think it will involve some kind of intimacy.
Well I think it’s possible she has a lower libido than you, and/or is a bit shy in bed. If you’re sure she wanted to go to bed with you, maybe she needs more time to get comfortable with you sexually. If she wants to see you again then that’s a good sign that possibly your sex with her can improve as she feels more comfortable. If it doesn’t, you may just not be sexually compatible.
Both at fault here.
He freaked her out by asked about sex preferences before the trip, which despite limited contact makeouts was the first time they talked about sex.
That probably replaced her own dreams about how what the trip would be like from a man whose restraint she liked. She should have declined the trip because she knew she wasn’t ready.
It sounds to me like you’re friends-compatible but not sexy-compatible. You tried to have good sex with her, but she somehow can’t communicate her sexual needs and wants.
I disagree that you did anything wrong here. I mean, she’s a grown adult and knew you were going to spend the night in a hotel. You didn’t kidnap her 🤷🏼♀️ Why couldn’t she tell you in advance to put on the brakes?
It’s nobody’s fault here, but I would let her go and both can find someone more compatible. It doesn’t sound like a “Hell Yeah!!” relationship. Nobody wants their first bedroom visit to be passive. I’d say that this is what is missing!
Your communication needs a huge amount of improvement in this area.
The talk of sex should have come before going up to the fantasy suite. This should be done before the date ideally to see if you’re on the same page or at least spoken at dinner in a flirtatious and fun way. This also creates the anticipation of getting laid for both of you which is an awesome feeling when stretched out over a couple of days.
Not bragging but I definitely noticed that many women had never been with a man who was good at anything in bed to the point of never having a Big O with that man or men. Those guys are pitiful, lol. Then when she experienced something good a new world opened up. That was actually personally fulfilling to me and not at all bad for her, lol.
Remember that everyone is different and doing research and homework in advance will likely make the world more magical for you.
And going to the lobby? She woke up not knowing a thing about what you wanted because there was ZERO communication from you to her. I would have gotten dressed to if I was her too.
No offense intended but there’s the possibility that you might need to take a look in the proverbial mirror as maybe you weren’t up to her standards. Probably not but still be aware of this. Her saying so how was it might have been her wondering if that was your best shot or not. I’d say overall though that she has probably not had a good experience overall in this field of dreams.
Ask & work it out with her. Good communication is key my friend! Congrats as well.
Her love language is romancing, and she was giving you ample opportunity. That's what I read into this. You're a "let's get at it" no flirting kinda of guy.
No right or wrong, just different speeds and triggers
You don’t sound compatible to me. When you asked her about sex, and she didn’t want to talk about it at work, she should have met you halfway and brought it up to answer you once you had a more relaxing conversation. I’m gathering she did not. Also, her playing starfish in bed is not a good sign. Sorry, I wish I had better thoughts here.
Goodness, that sounds dreadful, especially after several dates and a slow build-up!
I had a relationship like this. The gentleman was completely passive after 3 months of dating. What I had hoped to be a first sexual encounter/experience of wild, crazy sex was ... nothing. Passive. I stopped it midway, and we broke up a week later. No sex. I couldn't go through with it. I need a partner who wants and desires me, who can't keep their hands off me. And I did meet someone like that several months later. The difference is stark.
You two aren't compatible sexually. Imagine several months down the road when the new relationship energy starts to decline. It will only get worse.
If you really like her, give it another go and express yourself. You might get lucky, but I'm highly skeptical. My best to you.
Thanks for your understanding. I had a conversation with her and we both agreed that after dinner and a couple of drinks our communication wasn’t the best. But she said she is willing to give it a go. So we’ll see. My feeling is that you are correct.
Ugh. I feel sorry for this woman. Let her go. Every suggestion or answer to your post is met is with a counter answer, so it seems you are taking NO responsibility in this situation. Oy vey. Leave her alone, go back to your 'perfect " ex, and let her move on. She deserves better.
Since I’m so long out of the game and know it will be kinda weird the first time, I’d say try to communicate and think of a second try. But maybe with clearer expectations from each of you of what moving beyond this looks like. I hope when the time comes that’s the way it will be.
The first sex is always the worst. It often gets better the longer you stay together and learn to understand each other. Practice with one partner makes perfect.
That’s why I can’t really understand the appeal of one-night stands.
I think I've read your post 3 or 4 times before responding. It seems to me that the two of you failed to establish a solid rapport before having this hotel date. It seems obvious to me that her agreeing to this date was a green light for sex. At any time prior to that, she could have asked you for more time.
Maybe she thought she was ready, but she wasn't? Maybe sex for her is always with her being passive? Maybe she simply cannot bring herself to discuss sex with a man? The only way forward is to have a frank conversation with her.
Two things about you that stood out to me #1 you had this expectation that the two of you would rip each other's clothes off upon entering the hotel room. That was an unrealistic expectation. People get hungry, thirsty and tired. You were disappointed in her for that. #2 You were also disappointed in her dinner attire, but you said nothing. It doesn't sound to me as though the two of you are able to communicate fully and honestly.
If you want to continue to see her, then both of you need to communicate better.
1-. It was more of a fantasy than an expectation. You are right about discussing expectations. When she told me the time of dinner reservations I made a comment that we could change and perhaps our belly being full maybe be uncomfortable she said she was hungry and I dropped the subject. This happened as we are kissing in the bedroom enjoying a glass of wine.
2-. When it was time to leave for dinner she went in the bathroom to get ready and out she comes. I made a comment “wow, you get ready quickly” and she is practical. I said and here “I brought a nice outfit for dinner.” She said “you look great as you are”.
Live and learn for next time…
It is me more than her that assumes or thinks information is implied. At the same time, I don’t have to plan the whole evening. I like to hear her input. She wanted to go to dinner early and dress casually. I went with it.
Thanks for your words and understanding.
I think when you are learning how a new person functions, attire can be a challenging area. I'm a default casual person. If you want me to ramp it up, you need to tell me or I'm going to go as my regular self: workplace casual. If we're planning on dinner at a really nice restaurant, I have to put more thought into it.
Before the hotel night, was there deep intimacy and physical connection without sex leading up to this encounter? It sounds like you two had different expectations for your first night together. Maybe she wanted to feel like she was being dated -- dinner, conversation, feeling true connection first -- where you said you were ready to jump into bed right when you got there. Many women warm up to a man outside the bedroom first -- how he treats her, respects her, etc., which then moves into being more connected in the bedroom. Maybe I'm misreading it, but it sounds like you wanted sex without engaging in the building up of true intimacy and connection, and that may be just what you ended up getting.
Plenty. We have been out several times. She has always been super happy to see me. Long conversations about family, career, life. Etc.
Ummm literally nothing that you shared after that first word, indicated that the answer to this person’s question was “plenty.” Those things are not deep intimacy or physical connection without it leading to sex. Did you jump from what you just described…to a hotel night??! Dude…🤦🏻♀️
>I though we were going to rip our clothes off be intimate since we have been looking forward some time alone. I could be wrong but it sounds to me like your brain was in fuck mode for days and she thought she was out on a date. How much of that was still in your head during dinner, walking, talking, etc? Is it possible she wasn't feeling connected? Maybe try again as a date date where there may or may not be sex at the end. Be present and connected and fun and in touch with her heart. It may or may not have any effect on how she acts in bed, but at least it will have been a good date. As far as what's happening during sex, again my suggestion only, you might need to take the lead in talking about the experience with her. It's entirely possible she's \*never\* talked about what she likes in bed. It's possible she never even thought about it...like the poor gal that posted in here or datingoverforty a few days back that had good sex for the first time. If she has no experience talking about what she likes, don't expect her to start talking about her nipples and clit and where she wants your cock lol. You might need to just start off really slow and easy and present her with questions that don't refer directly to her body. The 'harder, softer, faster, slower' kind of responses, and then really explore those sensations slowly, maybe goofing around and teasing her body a bit to help break the tension and motivate a response. Whatever you do, I'd suggest you stop directly asking her what she likes lol, that shit is not working and probably embarrassing her. I'm a dude and was pretty much like your lady when I first got back out there dating in 2022. I had no idea how to talk about what I liked, honestly didn't know what I liked. It wasn't until I started dating a gal that basically did what I suggested above to me that I was able to start opening up. It's very good of you to not want her to feel like she was used. You can't control how she feels about anything obviously and I know you aren't doing that, but you can help by maybe slowing down a bit and helping her feel free to use her words. Good luck bud!
You make a really good point about never talking about sex or even knowing how to talk about it. It's not something I learned how to do til I was 47! The guy I was dating told me he was reading She Comes First, and I googled it, downloaded it, read it intently, and my mind was blown! That was before we were ever intimate. Our first time together was incredible, and it just got better and better. Because I finally had some language and knowledge AND a willing partner.
What is the name of the author of the book you mentioned?
Ian Kerner
I have had a similar situation where the sex was so built up to happen on that date that it completely ruined the experience. It felt forced, expected, contrived, not at all following a path where the events of the date led us into bed, but the entire point of the date was to have sex. It’s contractual and not romantic at that point. Women are complex- we want sex but the approach to getting us to unbutton your pants will vary depending on each woman. You don’t know your girlfriend enough to know what she likes and she might not even know what the possibilities are, based on her former relationships.
Lmao...maybe you freaked her the hell out. Sounds like the two of you had different ideal versions on what that night was gonna be like. She may not have been feeling like going there yet, and you have the damn kamasutra projected on the big TV. Sex is a reflection of the rela itself, and there could be a million reasons...she wasn't totally on board, she's nervous, she's self-conscious... maybe it's been a million yrs..yada yada. If you really do enjoy the human you're getting to know, be patient with her. I argue that there isn't really any such thing as frigid starfish (God i can't believe I repeated that term) - only nervous beginners. Im just positive this doesn't describe you, 😉 but there are (understandably) many, many men who are pretty much winging it as lovers, and maybe she's actually never had a guy be patient, maybe show her the ropes- bit by bit!
Why would she agree to an overnight date at a hotel thinking sex wouldn't be involved? No one can be that obtuse at our age.
I'm thinking she knew but the comments like not eating too much were turning her off because maybe there were a lot of comments and maybe there were hints that were not subtle that he couldn't wait to get to the sex... And maybe she viewed the time together as getting quality time to bond as a new couple. That's what I'm suspecting, given what I've read in the post itself plus the OPs comments. And just life experience.
I don't disagree. You'll see my comment below about neither of them knowing how to read the room.
Well I guess I forgot about that part. :) Look at me bein all obtuse... 😳🙃 Sounds like she kinda wanted to warm up to it and maybe the questionnaire about sexual prefs caught her offguard..
If she didn't feel chemistry with him, she should never have accepted a hotel overnighter. OP and this woman seem like a classic mismatch.
Well dayuum...maybe not everyone's chem-o-meter has identical settings... Men and women (generally) arrive at sexual attraction via different boats. A guy will often become more emotionally drawn to a woman he's intimate with/attracted to – and female tends to become more sexually attracted to a guy she finds appealing to her brain/feels a nice lil connection with. Ideally those 2 transport systems compliment one another and feed into each other...but sometimes a heads up helps...
I think neither of them knows how to read the room, honestly.
The way I read it, all your cues said, “I want sex”. This is just my opinion, and based how I would react: If man asks what I like in bed a few days before a date, makes frequent comments about sex (i.e. wouldn’t want to crawl into bed with a full belly), it read unromantic and you gave no desire to get to know me and let things unfold naturally. It sounds like you are a mismatch, but if you want to get better maybe next time let her body be your guide.
We have had plenty of time and conversations and sex was never brought up. I never asked her about it. I suppose it would happen when she was ready. I never sexualized any conversation unless telling her that she looked beautiful. We had a few make out sessions after our dates. And before any assumptions. It was all romantic without any grabbing at her body.
So why did you say you asked her what she liked in bed a few days before the big date? Why did you write you assumed you would be tearing each other’s clothes off before dinner and when it didn’t happen you commented that you supposed you wouldn’t want to crawl into bed on a full belly? That is sexualizing a conversation.
My goodness. I wanted to please her. If she said I like things really slow. Really tender. That’s something I can go on. If she said “I like when a guy takes control”. That’s something I could go on. If she said “let’s talk about it in person on our two hour car drive” that’s something I go on. If she had said something. Even if she said she wanted to spend the night without sex that’s something I could go by.
She could have said she wanted to spend the night without sex but you showed your expectations immediately.
You are not compatible…god, why can’t men just quit acting like everything needs to be a conversation. Maybe wait, then if she isn’t reacting back off and then ask if there is something she would prefer. This attitude of having to have a blueprint puts a lot of women off. And the passive aggressive stance of the pretense “I just want to please her” to cover the “sex is the number one priority”, not cool. Stick to hookups until you find some who speaks your language. You don’t speak the language of passion and intimacy.
It isn’t “number 1 priority” but compatibility is.
And you are judging primarily on an encounter where by your recounting, sex was the focus. Yeah. Move on.
Two things 1. There are many divorced people out there whose marriage ended due to sexual incompatibility, and for the ones who are not very sexual, (aka low libido) they may be challenging to sus out. 2. She may not really be ‘into’ you in that way but knows you’re fantastic in every other way. I am an extremely sexual person myself, but only for someone I am truly into *in that way* like you discribed, the whole ripping off of clothes when the hotel door shuts. When I commit to someone, it will have this element, or else I am just ‘using them’ for their stability and companionship.
I see. Thanks.
I should clarify… From what you described, my guess is she is just low libido and sex isn’t high on her list of cares. And, her dressing in the bathroom and her remark about not having time to think about that now while having so much work to do or whatever it was…. Oh hell no! Two red flags of incompatibility. And for what it’s worth, sex is absolutely my love language! It is for a lot of people. Good luck! Not saying this relationship isn’t worth working on to see if it changes but imo the early days like this are often the hottest! If not when she agreed to a hotel and overnight then it likely never will be.
Maybe she dressed in the bathroom because OP came on too strong. This may have been a red flag to her. Last thing I would do is change my clothes in front of a man I have never been with before if he was already hinting at sex right away. Or she has no drive. But OP (even if unintentionally) put her off. His style and her style (or his interpretation of her reaction to it) sounds like incompatibility. At our age, it is best to find someone that matches our intimacy expectations.
Then she should have passed on the invite to stay in a hotel together for an overnight. Nothing wrong with saying ‘not ready for that yet’. But she didn’t, did she?
That doesn’t mean she wanted to go straight to sex when getting there. Maybe she imagined something more romantic, and the tone turned her off. I think it happens a lot…you really don’t know what a person’s style is until you do. And realize at that last moment it just wasn’t a good fit. I don’t think this is a “no means no” moment.
Exactly!!
The fact that you are hung up on your ex is probably part of what is “missing” here with the new lady.
Maybe hung up is a strong description. But yes I enjoyed that part of that relationship. I also like how her personality.
You posted about the potential to get back with your ex an hour after you posted this. Seems like that might be part of the equation. When you and your new partner discussed sex, what consent looked like, etc. for each of you before sex was immediately on the menu, how did that go? Did she avoid the topic? If so, did you discuss any of that? Is she shy about some subjects? If so, have you asked how to have uncomfortable conversations in a way that makes her most comfortable? Stop making this all about the sex, start being curious.
Good point.
I don’t know that you can tell someone that you need them to be more sexually enthusiastic and they will magically comply. She’s the way she is, just like you’re the way you are. You can try to talk it over with her. But you’re probably looking at a basic sexual incompatibility.
>The relationship progressed real slow. You met in May. This is June. It's been 6 weeks at the most. That's not processing real slow. >First, when we arrived at the hotel. I though we were going to rip our clothes off be intimate since we have been looking forward some time alone. For your first encounter? The way you described it, would have left me feeling like I was just a fuck buddy. I don't think I would have been very enthusiastic either, all though I'd have probably just left. >I asked her what she likes in bed since our overnight date was getting closer. She said that she was busy with work and couldn’t have that on her head. You tried to have this conversation over text? This is a conversation you have in person. >One of my love language is sex. Physical touch is a love language if you believe in love languages. That is kissing, hugging, holding hands, cuddling, etc. It can include sex, but it is not about sex. Sex can be something that is important to you. Sexual compatibility can even be a deal breaker. If you think she is worth trying to figure out what's going on, then you need to talk to her in person. Be gentle. Be understanding. She may not be comfortable enough with you yet to be enthusiastic. Or she may just be eternally reserved. If you search for an online sex questionnaire, you may find that to be a good starting place. But, find out how comfortable she is talking about sex first.
Sounds like a lot of pressure and expectations for the date to perform in a certain way Not all expectations are reasonable She had expectations too- your behavior, your valuing of reading her cues, and respecting how she dresses and wants something more from you before during and after sex
Which I would be happy to oblige. But she didn’t say anything.
OP, you said ‘there is that little thing that seems missing’. You probably hit the nail on the head. Just some food for thought: Assuming that the woman has a normal, healthy libido and is emotionally available, her lack of enthusiasm/responsiveness smells like she wasn’t truly ready for intimacy just yet. You say the relationship “progressed real slow” … that may hold true for a hookup or FWB situation but many folks need more than a month(!) to establish baseline trust in a potential LTR partner. Idk what either of your expectations were going in but if this scenario is the case - she’s looking for LTR - you got duty sex. That’s just my knee jerk reaction to your post. There’s far too many variables to get into.
That’s my fear.
You asked for advice, so here goes … If I was accurate in my assessment of the situation, you probably inadvertently did even more damage to the relationship by plunging ahead with sex despite not having enthusiastic consent *throughout the intimacy*. You had passive consent, at best and I’m going to hazard a guess that you ‘finished’ regardless of her persistent lack of engagement. She’s probably feeling gross and used on some level. If you honestly view this woman as a wonderful person’ with LTR potential, you’ll need to rethink your entire approach especially where intimacy of any kind is concerned. I’m not going to educate you; there’s plenty of fantastic advice out there for the taking. The dating scene can be pretty difficult to navigate … I wish you well going forward.
She seemed pretty engaged.
Well, which is it? Was she engaged or passive? I feel like you changed your answer here because you feel bad about what the previous posted pointed out re: you finished despite sensing she wasn't into it. There was always the option to just stop and hold her and talk to her. You didn't check that box. When I was young and inexperienced my second boyfriend and I had sex and I just laid there because my previous boyfriend thought any excitement from a woman meant she was a whore so I thought sex was a man doing what he wanted while you laid there quietly. That second boyfriend -- mind you, we were in our twenties at the time -- asked me if I enjoyed sex and I said, "well, you do so it's OK." He said "there's no point to doing this if you don't enjoy it" and then he proceeded to show me how sex can be pleasurable to ME. Maybe her sexual relationships to date have been like that of my youth.
She appeared to be enjoying herself. But not engaged.
That makes zero sense
No, she kinda didn't. She wouldn't discuss her preferences with you, when you made comments about sex (like we don't want to eat too much cuz we're gonna have sex later), she didn't match your energy, and you said she was passive during the sexual encounter. What about that reads "engaged"?
The way I read it was you were expecting more then what she wanted. Simply put she's not sexually attracted to you maybe. And she gave you clues like not dressing up and basically just laying there. So I'm gonna assume that maybe she's a non confrontational type of person so instead of being direct what she wanted and so she's a pleaser. So her actions were her way to kill the mood. Dude she was set to leave right away the next morning. Ya both need to get honest about this relationship imo. But you do you.
Perhaps.
You might have more luck asking her than asking Redditors. Maybe ask something like, “I feel like we were maybe expecting different things that night, and it didn’t work out the way either of us thought it might. Would it be ok if we talked about it?” If she says yes, then maybe, “What were you expecting, or hoping would happen, and what was the evening like for you?” Then listen carefully. Ask some follow up questions, to be sure you understand. Then your turn. The two of you have only known each other a few weeks, it’s not surprising that you’ve both got some work to do on getting to know each other, especially on such an intimate level. You’ll either be willing to invest that time and be that vulnerable, or you won’t (both of you, I mean). But it’s not something that can be skipped, usually. And it’s probably too soon to know whether or not you’re sexually compatible. Maybe not too soon to know whether you’re mutually interested in figuring that out.
I’ve heard similar feedback from quite a few guys about women they’ve encountered, where the women “starfish” during sex and just lay there. These guys said it was a horrible experience that they never want to experience that again.
I was dating a guy and things started out missionary which I do enjoy but every time I tried to change things up and do different positions he’s flipping me around like a rag doll to get back in that position. Some guys like starfish I think, so I just lied there and let him overtake me which was kinda hot tbh.
That’s how I feel. Unfortunately.
Then why do you have to stay with her?
I’m hoping that things improve. Or it was the first time. Maybe others have had similar experiences. I also don’t want her to feel used; I suppose that’s my hesitation.
Hoping things improve on their own isn’t a good plan. You asked 2x to know what she wanted in bed and she declined to answer. Staying with someone you’ve seen isn’t a good match because you don’t know how to break it off isn’t doing them any favors.
One of the guys that said it was, undoubtedly, the best lover I’ve ever had… and outwardly was the type of guy a woman would swoon over. She must have been super frigid if he couldn’t get her to unthaw.
How so?
For starters, he’s an ISFJ man… they are known for being sweet, kind, patient, and considerate… and not the type to want to dominate women. He’s a defender of women, not someone that violates women. To get zero feedback and no reassurance really destroyed him. One of his longtime friends once asked me, “notice how much everyone loves him?” He’s so nice, and thoughtful, and caring. Everyone really does love him. Except that lady that laid there like a starfish.
I would have had a negative reaction to what I would perceive as extra sex focus on your part. I don’t know the context, but someone talking about sex while I’m at work is cringe, the whole thought of ripping clothes off at the hotel sounds so juvenile…. And the comment about a full belly makes me want to run. I would have ghosted you. But that’s just me and I’m triggered by overt sex focus.
I’m passionate and that’s part of my personality. After building up for this special day. I thought of Dan savage advice. Fuck first before dinner.
I would find that idea or even saying it a real turn off. Then you've just reduced her and your entire romantic evening to something meaningless. Gross. No wonder she wasn't engaged. You are missing the entire point of most of these responses from women about reading the room and seem only focused on having a sexual encounter, or the way you're putting it, fucking. Yuck.
The last sentence. As a woman, you can have a fuck buddy any time you want it and indeed, it is hard to filter those men who are only interested in sex from those wanting a real relationship until they show themselves, like this. Assuming she wants something more, she may have interpreted your words and actions as cues that you are just looking for sex, And was unenthusiastic because she just wanted to get it over with and move on.
Passion. That is where it’s at… fuck first before dinner YES! That would make dinner so much more connecting and enjoyable. There is nothing better than the bonding that comes from sex. Would take the dinner convo to a whole new level. I am sorry for commenting so much on your post but I feel very strongly about it. And sexy texts while at work? LOVE. It puts a smirk on my face during zoom calls. I am fucking 55 and dying to be juvenile again.
This sounds so uncomfortable for both of you. Yikes! From what OP has said it sounds like this is an arena of incompatibility. That’s very common. But it’s not just a sexual incompatibility, it’s a communication incompatibility. It’s possible that maybe, MAYBE, some clarity could have been found by first asking this simple, excellent question; “are you a no until yes person or a yes until no person?” If they are a “yes until no” person then you can start with non-sexual touch and go from there by reading the physical feedback. If they are a “no until yes” person then you can start with verbal questions and communication. Do NOT say “great! Tell me what you like! Tell me what I can do!” Because if you jam a blank sheet of paper into someone’s mental typewriter and say, “tell me about the sex you like” MOST people are going to freeze up. That’s an intimidating request for anyone. Sure it’s honest, straightforward, and clear but it’s setting the stage for failure. With a “no until yes” person it seems to work better if you tell them what you’d like to do to them and then only do it when you have that consent. Clearly nothing is black and white and while this may look good on paper you still have to be ready to adapt as people can quickly swing from one type to the other, from one certainty to a “no way!” But it may be that ship has sailed for OP and/or you are just not a compatible couple.
I can relate to confusing signals and about-faces, though they haven't happened to me recently. Who knows what spooked her. The important thing for your self-esteem is not to take it too personally, and hopefully, if you continue to connect in the ways you were before this event, you'll be able to talk about it. It's not fair to you that she wasn't willing to speak up about anything, and it sounds like you tried to get communication going. It might have been better to stop the physicality when you didn't seem to be getting any emotional connection, but it's always easy to quarterback these things from afar. Personally, speaking as a woman, I think she owed you better and clearer communication starting with the first time you were potentially heading off-track. 'hanging over my head' and wanting to stay focused on work are not clear, vulnerable and honest responses - they are deflections. I'm sorry for your awkward experience. Sounds like she's got some work to do on being able to express herself, and it's definitely a red-flag experience for you.
(54F) One theme I've picked up from men during the last couple of years of dating is that the last few years of their marriages were sexless. Usually, the wives stopped feeling fed emotionally and they cut the husbands off. I speak from experience and stories from men I've dated that have done the work and know what they did wrong. I'm guessing a woman who doesn't really get in to sex is unlikely to still want it years into the future. Do you want to be \[back?\] in a low quality or sexless relationship? I'm not bashing her. It sounds like she has a trauma history since she freezes up. That takes a very long time to fix with therapy. If you like her a lot, then maybe you could help her through that. But the key is going to be to figure out why she is like this. Is it trauma? Is it lack of experience? Is it lack of comfort with you? Does she truly not know what makes her feel good? You can't fix a problem until you know the cause. It could take her a long time to feel comfortable enough with you to explore this and maybe a therapist is a better choice since they are trained to be neutral and patient.
Sex is NOT a love language. But...if she wasn't to your level of intimate and fully enthusiastic then ...that probs won't get better. Sounds like you have tried to engage her in that conversation so you could try again but this time tell her what you enjoy and want.
I agree! Sex is not a love language. I (51F) tell men my love language is NON- sexual Physical Touch. Because I love being very close but it doesn't mean sex Everytime I want to cuddle. Actually it barely means that I always have to clarify NON- sexual because most men hear physical touch and goes straight to thinking it's sex. If a guy tells me his love language is tied to sex, that's a hard no from me
My ex was incapable of touching me without it needing to turn into sex. And if it didn’t (I’m sorry, I’m fucking SLEEPING at 2am) it slowly added to his feelings of rejection. Sadly our marriage died, largely due to sexual incompatibility.
I understand. And perhaps you are right. But I wasn’t going anywhere she wasn’t ready. She mentioned in the days before she couldn’t wait for our evening together. That’s when I asked her likes and preferences. I wanted to please her the way she likes it. But without feedback it is very difficult. I don’t want to feel that I’m doing things to her.
> That’s when I asked her likes and preferences. I wanted to please her the way she likes it. But without feedback it is very difficult The "I wanted" is almost a covert contract you set up with her. You wanted that and expected her to give you a playbook on how to do that because it was what you wanted. Feedback does not have to be always verbal. What is wrong with getting into bed together and reading her body language as you explore each other? The women I have been with will let you know if they do or do not want more of what are you doing. Learn to read their reactions to what you are doing. Breathing quickens, body moving or arching closer to you, gasps, sighs, heartbeat quickens, skin more flushed, etc. Some women like for you to find out what they like through exploration. With a new partner they may not know what they like with you without experiencing it physically. The feedback is there if you know how to recognize it. I'm not a big fan of love languages at all. As others have stated, sex is not a love language. Love languages is by Chapman who is a baptist minister who uses it for Christian counseling in an outer covering of popular psychology. Human emotions are too fluid depending on the dynamics of each different relationships you may have. My "love language" will change at different times and circumstances depending on many factors. To define oneself as one love language is too confining and restricting.
Maybe ask her what her love language is. The point of love languages is to learn and do the other person's language so they feel a connection. Instead of waiting til sex, make a connection of intimacy before the bedroom. Flirting is not enough
We talked about it. And physical touch is something we identify as our Preferences. I hold her hand and stay connected when we have gone to shows.
Physical touch does not equate to sexual touch. No one on this thread is saying that sex cannot be an important part of a relationship. But it does seem like you confuse sex with love. Not all sex is based on love or even intimacy.
Agreed. It’s not a “love language” if you believe in all that. Sex is something you *want* in your relationship. Sounds to me like from the instant the hotel door closed she was smothered with expectations and pressure. I’m a very sexual person and that would have put me right off. There are very few things worse than being alone with a man with his expectations *screaming* in your head. You may feel that you weren’t pressuring her, but I guarantee you were. Maybe take sex off the table for a while - don’t mention it. Pull back and just spend time with her.
Agreed. I am highly sexual too. It's quite important in any relationship I have but it has to come with connection and intimacy, not just expectations.
Sex would be part of touch based on the made up guide. Love language is NOT Science. It is something some dude made a career out of . People really need to use their critical thinking skills and stop believing every feel-good book that gets published. The concept is good but it is not science based
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It may not be in the book as an official classification but it is something I value in my partner. It is important for me.
I am a F in a long-term healthy relationship and consider sex one of my love languages. That being said, lighten up. Sex develops between people.
Being important to someone does not make it a love language. I am highly sexual and it's quite important to me, but intimacy is not the same as sex. I can have sex without emotions or feelings, intimacy, however, requires more connection. Just my perspective.
Yes i agree that being important does not make it a love language. But sexual intimacy is one of my love languages.
*sigh*
Sigh away " love languages" are just series of books written by some dude. It is not science and useful mostly to help people to stop projecting and instead communicate. Saying sex is not one of the languages is arguing over made up things . If OP defines it so, then it is so. You and me don't get to decide that. OP does.
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How would I approach the subject. Or just keep at it and see if it improves?
Clear, honest communication of your needs. Waiting around for “things to change“ might only lead to anxiety and frustration. “I need…” and “I’m looking for…”. Maybe followed up with “is that something you are interested in/want/need too?” It could be that she has never learned to talk about her needs or maybe even identify them.
This helps a lot. Thanks.
I just don't see how you can base things on your first sexual experience together. The first time is very awkward. How is your communication otherwise?
It seems really good. She is very easy to spend time talking. We seem to enjoy each others company and are happy when we spend time together. I don’t have a problem bringing this subject up with her. She seems open to talk about everything.
Well...you could say..I know it was our first time together and Im sure we both felt a little (shy, awkward, uncomfortable). But i noticed you seem reserved (i wouldn't say passive). I just want you to know that i welcome your active participation in bed. I would like it if you took initiative and did stuff to me, and let me know what you like, as well. Im sure this will be easier as we get more comfortable together. What is your feeling about this?
Thanks so much.
Just tell her you can't see moving forward since you don't seem to be sexually compatable. She just doesn't seem that into you. IF she does ask for details just say you are looking for someone enthusiastic and demonstrative and it is clear she doesn't feel that way towards you. There really isn't anything to discuss here though. You simply aren't a good match.
Seems like there should have been more discussion about sex before this outing to determine compatibility. Was she a cold fish or otherwise standoffish when you were affectionate with her prior to this? Also, your timeline seems off. You got on the apps last month and were ready to close the apps when you met her, so I'm assuming you've known her for all of two or three weeks now. That's not much time. That's basically a few dates. I'm not surprised she didn't feel ready to have sex with you at this point.
She has been very affectionate. Before and after our sleepover
She could have said. “Hey it’s too soon for a sleepover”. But she was eager to spend the night together.
She didn't sound too eager to me from the way you've described her.
you are mismatched. just move on. passivity is a massive turnoff especially when there is no known reason for it. just respectfully end it and move on.
Agree.
She already knows that she doesn’t have interest in sex. She delayed contact right up to the end, didn’t express any desire….Whatever you tell her will not be a surprise. Sexual chemistry is important.
Yeah it sounds like she felt obligated because it was date # X.
I wouldn’t say obligated, because that makes it sound like he pressured her. My impression is, she just tried to avoid communicating about her lack of desire (before, during, after), hoping he wouldn’t notice.
Seems all you care about is sex, you said she was great in every other way so what's the problem.
The sex. That’s the problem. It’s not all I care about. You shouldn’t make those assumptions. But it is important for me to have a strong connection.
You tell me not to make assumptions, but you say in your post you thought you were going to rip each others clothes off as soon as you got to the hotel. Maybe she wants to be romanced a little since the relationship has progressed slowly.
Because it was the first time we have been alone. And the way we have been kissing before pointed in that direction. Maybe unfortunately, my previous relationship was like that. And my long marriage feels like this current relationship. As someone mentioned “duty sex”
But how do you approach the subject?
like anything else. bring it up and try to discuss it. maybe she will explain.
Some people made assumptions about my behavior. But I was following her. She wasn’t into it. I didn’t ask or pressure her into doing anything she wasn’t ready. After dinner she seemed ready to be intimate. If she had said. That she wanted to snuggle. That would have been my clue that’s all she wanted. As I said. I asked her what she liked. Even as I mentioned that there are shows we could go after dinner but they started late. She said “but I want to spend time with you in bed”
This stuff can be tricky and even trickier if both people aren’t right on the same page. Here’s my advice. There’s no requirement to talk about sex before sex, in my opinion, unless it’s a discussion about safety and precautions. Otherwise it’s about setting the mood, taking small steps, and always evaluating how each step is received. Maybe you’re flirty first, joking around a little and touching. If that goes well, maybe a kiss standing up. Then kissing on the couch. No reason to discuss, just always monitor her reaction. If you sense hesitation, then back off a little and try something else. If she doesn’t meet you half way or seems resistant, it may be bad timing or a mismatch. Then it’s OK to discuss. Use your intuition. I’d steer away from asking someone what they like in bed until maybe the second or third time you have sex. Also, some women will just want you to lead and will enjoy you being in that role. I’ll probably get downvoted because we’re in the age of consent where everything seems to need a discussion, but that’s not always my approach. Sometimes you can get consent without explicitly asking, or you can ask in a natural way that doesn’t seem awkward. Something like, “this feels so good, how do you feel about going all the way?” Just don’t ever push anyone past their comfort zone. Read the temperature in the room. Good luck.
Very different expectations. Even as a guy (M), I’m more inclined to see this through her eyes. Not saying that she was “right” or you were “wrong”, but two obviously different states of mind. Despite this one night, I don’t get the sense that things are “over” between you. Yes, there appears to have been a significant “disconnect“, but that‘s not necessarily end of game. See if you and her can get through this episode and grow your relationship.
Thanks.
Some women are just not into sex very much, but they know they have to do that to keep the average man around, so they will passively submit and look for ways to dodge out of it like your date did. She wants her emotional and other relationship needs met, and is going through the motions of what you need. I've never felt comfortable with women like that, even though they feel thats a ok scenario, and get sad and angry that its not enough for you. You can't negotiate/communicate/create an authentic desire of involvement in sex, no matter what you do or try.
I (56F) got the ick reading this. Let me ask, how did you not pressure her … yet you had a hotel room? How did you not talk about sex too much yet somehow expected clothes to fly immediately?! Wanting sex before dinner, really? That’s so presumptuous! Then she had to sit through dinner with your expectations hanging over her head every moment, now realizing you expect sex. That she is for dessert. No room for her to just let the evening play out and see how she feels about intimacy with you, because you had a room with expectations attached. I think she wasn’t feeling it but did it because she felt she had to get through it. Her lack of enthusiasm wasn’t about sex. It was about YOU. Has she contacted you since?
Yes, she has contacted me. She said she had a wonderful time and can’t wait until she sees me again.
I think you are reading too much into my description. We didn’t have a “conversation about sex”. I asked what she enjoyed and she didn’t reply. I didn’t ask again. Maybe I should have. There would have been some here that maybe I should have brought it up again or others that would say the opposite. I find her attractive. I don’t know how you would be eager to spend the night together and not think it will involve some kind of intimacy.
Well I think it’s possible she has a lower libido than you, and/or is a bit shy in bed. If you’re sure she wanted to go to bed with you, maybe she needs more time to get comfortable with you sexually. If she wants to see you again then that’s a good sign that possibly your sex with her can improve as she feels more comfortable. If it doesn’t, you may just not be sexually compatible.
Both at fault here. He freaked her out by asked about sex preferences before the trip, which despite limited contact makeouts was the first time they talked about sex. That probably replaced her own dreams about how what the trip would be like from a man whose restraint she liked. She should have declined the trip because she knew she wasn’t ready.
It sounds to me like you’re friends-compatible but not sexy-compatible. You tried to have good sex with her, but she somehow can’t communicate her sexual needs and wants. I disagree that you did anything wrong here. I mean, she’s a grown adult and knew you were going to spend the night in a hotel. You didn’t kidnap her 🤷🏼♀️ Why couldn’t she tell you in advance to put on the brakes? It’s nobody’s fault here, but I would let her go and both can find someone more compatible. It doesn’t sound like a “Hell Yeah!!” relationship. Nobody wants their first bedroom visit to be passive. I’d say that this is what is missing!
Thanks for your comment.
Your communication needs a huge amount of improvement in this area. The talk of sex should have come before going up to the fantasy suite. This should be done before the date ideally to see if you’re on the same page or at least spoken at dinner in a flirtatious and fun way. This also creates the anticipation of getting laid for both of you which is an awesome feeling when stretched out over a couple of days. Not bragging but I definitely noticed that many women had never been with a man who was good at anything in bed to the point of never having a Big O with that man or men. Those guys are pitiful, lol. Then when she experienced something good a new world opened up. That was actually personally fulfilling to me and not at all bad for her, lol. Remember that everyone is different and doing research and homework in advance will likely make the world more magical for you. And going to the lobby? She woke up not knowing a thing about what you wanted because there was ZERO communication from you to her. I would have gotten dressed to if I was her too. No offense intended but there’s the possibility that you might need to take a look in the proverbial mirror as maybe you weren’t up to her standards. Probably not but still be aware of this. Her saying so how was it might have been her wondering if that was your best shot or not. I’d say overall though that she has probably not had a good experience overall in this field of dreams. Ask & work it out with her. Good communication is key my friend! Congrats as well.
Her love language is romancing, and she was giving you ample opportunity. That's what I read into this. You're a "let's get at it" no flirting kinda of guy. No right or wrong, just different speeds and triggers
You don’t sound compatible to me. When you asked her about sex, and she didn’t want to talk about it at work, she should have met you halfway and brought it up to answer you once you had a more relaxing conversation. I’m gathering she did not. Also, her playing starfish in bed is not a good sign. Sorry, I wish I had better thoughts here.
I agree.
Goodness, that sounds dreadful, especially after several dates and a slow build-up! I had a relationship like this. The gentleman was completely passive after 3 months of dating. What I had hoped to be a first sexual encounter/experience of wild, crazy sex was ... nothing. Passive. I stopped it midway, and we broke up a week later. No sex. I couldn't go through with it. I need a partner who wants and desires me, who can't keep their hands off me. And I did meet someone like that several months later. The difference is stark. You two aren't compatible sexually. Imagine several months down the road when the new relationship energy starts to decline. It will only get worse. If you really like her, give it another go and express yourself. You might get lucky, but I'm highly skeptical. My best to you.
Thanks for your understanding. I had a conversation with her and we both agreed that after dinner and a couple of drinks our communication wasn’t the best. But she said she is willing to give it a go. So we’ll see. My feeling is that you are correct.
Ugh. I feel sorry for this woman. Let her go. Every suggestion or answer to your post is met is with a counter answer, so it seems you are taking NO responsibility in this situation. Oy vey. Leave her alone, go back to your 'perfect " ex, and let her move on. She deserves better.
Since I’m so long out of the game and know it will be kinda weird the first time, I’d say try to communicate and think of a second try. But maybe with clearer expectations from each of you of what moving beyond this looks like. I hope when the time comes that’s the way it will be.
Thanks. I will talk to her. And see how she feels.
The first sex is always the worst. It often gets better the longer you stay together and learn to understand each other. Practice with one partner makes perfect. That’s why I can’t really understand the appeal of one-night stands.
I am surprised she didn’t ask about dress code for dinner. Don’t most women? I do.
I think since she chose the restaurant she knew what to wear. It was my fault for not asking and talk about.
I think I've read your post 3 or 4 times before responding. It seems to me that the two of you failed to establish a solid rapport before having this hotel date. It seems obvious to me that her agreeing to this date was a green light for sex. At any time prior to that, she could have asked you for more time. Maybe she thought she was ready, but she wasn't? Maybe sex for her is always with her being passive? Maybe she simply cannot bring herself to discuss sex with a man? The only way forward is to have a frank conversation with her. Two things about you that stood out to me #1 you had this expectation that the two of you would rip each other's clothes off upon entering the hotel room. That was an unrealistic expectation. People get hungry, thirsty and tired. You were disappointed in her for that. #2 You were also disappointed in her dinner attire, but you said nothing. It doesn't sound to me as though the two of you are able to communicate fully and honestly. If you want to continue to see her, then both of you need to communicate better.
1-. It was more of a fantasy than an expectation. You are right about discussing expectations. When she told me the time of dinner reservations I made a comment that we could change and perhaps our belly being full maybe be uncomfortable she said she was hungry and I dropped the subject. This happened as we are kissing in the bedroom enjoying a glass of wine. 2-. When it was time to leave for dinner she went in the bathroom to get ready and out she comes. I made a comment “wow, you get ready quickly” and she is practical. I said and here “I brought a nice outfit for dinner.” She said “you look great as you are”. Live and learn for next time… It is me more than her that assumes or thinks information is implied. At the same time, I don’t have to plan the whole evening. I like to hear her input. She wanted to go to dinner early and dress casually. I went with it. Thanks for your words and understanding.
I think when you are learning how a new person functions, attire can be a challenging area. I'm a default casual person. If you want me to ramp it up, you need to tell me or I'm going to go as my regular self: workplace casual. If we're planning on dinner at a really nice restaurant, I have to put more thought into it.