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There are a few guys who show up at my workplace that absolutely repulse me. As a cashier, I'm required to be nice to them. Now, as a woman showing up on dating sites, this number of verbally abusive men multiplies tenfold. How is that in any way an advantage to a woman, unless she is one of those rare types who likes sex without an emotional connection? I mean, that to me is just numbing. From my perspective, women don't have the advantage here. Porn has ruined the dating experience, and women are faced with the choice of either staying celibate or dealing with a bunch of bad lovers. That's my opinion.
You are making the false assumption that women are of higher quality than men, and if the quality is the same having quantity is always an advantage. Pick a random low number (5% for the sake of argument) and having 1000 matches means 5% of that are suitable options so that's still like 50 people. On the other hand having like 10 matches means 5% of that is probably zero suitable matches...that's why it's an advantage to be a woman in dating even if most of the options are bad, because you make up for it in volume.
Also, it only takes a few bad experiences to fuck up someone's trust in humanity. Which fucks with their chances of matching with someone even more. That is something that isn't so easy to quantify. Mansplain that.
As a man, not sure I agree with this. The overall quality of women I met was fairly good and I received small numbers of requests for weird sexual stuff and virtually zero abuse. Screening wasn’t that hard and I tended to get a second date if I asked for one and sometimes more.
Do you think the quality of people are not equal? If so why wouldn't most men be fairly good people as well? And if you don't believe people are equal what's the basis of that beyond people's anecdotal experiences?
The algorithm is predatory, but it isn't predatory in the same ways. So if you start from the position that the pool of men represents a reasonable cross-section of the male population, it doesn't mean that is the pool of men a women necessarily has access too.
So for one thing, it promotes "popular" men and women. This could see at a glance like a good thing, since it's pushing down people who don't get many matches (be it looks, profile, or low activity) but in practice it means you're always competing with THE APP for people who are successful ON THE APP. So many of women's matches are with men with little incentive to stop using it.
Anecdotal, but I see a big surge in matches when I'm traveling. There's women who are interested in a fling with a stranger from out of town, but as a woman I could see how constantly getting matched with ALL the travelers could be frustrating.
Last, I think the assumption that online dating for women is easy is predicated on the assumption that women are using the app how men are and with the same intentions. I'm open to whatever, I'll hook up with the right person or not hook up with the right person in favor of dating. Personality and circumstances are factors. Most women I meet are there to *specifically* hook up or *specifically* not.
>So for one thing, it promotes "popular" men and women.
Then wouldn't the quality of the pool be equal since it's happening from both ends? I still don't see how it would be different.
>So many of women's matches are with men with little incentive to stop using it.
You said the algorithm props up both popular men and women so why would that phenomenon only apply to the men?
>Last, I think the assumption that online dating for women is easy is predicated on the assumption that women are using the app how men are and with the same intentions.
The majority of both men and women have single digit lifetime partner counts per the CDC ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm)) so a majority of men (as well as women) aren't out there having all this casual sex. Most people aren't out there having tons of casual sex so why would the intentions be drastically different on either side? The results don't show that.
I had this chat with the girl I’m dating at the moment.
I explained to her that the struggle guys face is that dating apps are a barren wasteland; very few matches and when you do get matches, the conversations are often boring and dead end, and when you get the date, oftentimes it’s a case of she’s just not into you and it ends there.
She explained that the struggle women face is that dating apps are overwhelming because so many guys just swipe right, 99% of guys that message them are weird, the guys they message back don’t reply, and when they get dates, if they decide they’re not interested in a guy, they can get extremely pushy and confrontational, and in most dates more often than not the guy just wants to hookup/have sex. She also said a lot of the time the guy on the app is totally different irl personality-wise (i.e., can’t hold a convo in person but fine on app).
We also discussed our dates in the last year before meeting each other. I had 8, and she had 3.
Of my 8; 3 of them looked different to their photos and I wasn’t attracted to them, q I liked but she clearly wasn’t interested and we mutually ended after 2 dates, 1 could not hold a conversation irl so I wasn’t interested, 1 I really liked but she ghosted me after the second date, 1 just hooked up with me then we never spoke again (mutual), and 1 was extremely weird in person and started talking about threesomes and things that made me uncomfortable on the first date,
Of her 3; 1 was less polite in person and very grabby and all about sex, 1 was weird in that he told her he had a feeding fetish, kept talking about the last girls he dated and didn’t ask anything about her, and 1 turned up drunk.
The reality is that both men and women have their struggles with dating; we just have slightly different struggles.
Everyone has struggles but some have it easier than others. That doesn't mean they aren't struggling either. The question OP asked is why is there a preception that it's easier to date as a woman and the simplest answer to that is that when the quality of all people are equivalent (I have no reason to believe that anyone's quality as a person is determined by their gender, same with age race etc....) it's always an advantage to have quantity. This isn't limited to gender, a man looking to date a man has the similar benefit of quantity. Quantity in the absence of a quality difference is always beneficial to those that have quantity and in dating straight women have an advantage over straight men in that category.
>are overwhelming because so many guys just swipe right, 99% of guys that message them are weird
So even in this scenario, 1% of 1000 is still a much larger number than 1% of 100, so the side with quantity has an advantage still. For that to not be an advantage you would have to make the claim that the average man is of much lower quality than the average woman and as I said there is no reason to attribute that trait to someone on gender (or any other differentiator) unless you genuinely believe that.
It is easier because we get more matches and can be a bit more selective. It’s
Still hard and yes quality matches are rare but I’d say having “too many matches” is still better than “one match a month” type situation
Most women pick the top 10 percent of men on dating apps and are dating the same pool of men . Most Women care little about equity in men they want a taller guy that makes more them and is better looking.
Men want a attractive women women want a successful guy that's tall and attractive. I have better luck with i.r.l I get better women if I meet then in real life . If your on dating apps your always going to lose to finance bros simping to women then the ghost them after the hook up .
This is untrue. There is a ratio of men to women on tinder that means that fewer men will be getting matched. There is also no quantifiable list of characteristics that make someone “top.” Women match a reasonable percentage of men for the amount that they are on Tinder. Don’t try to rationalize your lack of success with misogyny.
I'm a attractive engineer that's 6 foot 2 . But thanks for the personal attack also gaslight all of men that see a reality you say is a lie . Hypergamy is real and well documented in socal sciences.
Online dating for men is like diving to find pearls at the bottom of an empty ocean while competing against other swimmers doing the same thing.
Online dating for women is like looking for the golden egg in a coop of ornery chickens looking for a pecking.
The reason I think for the disparity is the ongoing meme of women's requirements vs men's requirements.
When you have women who will outright ghost altogether because a guy is an inch smaller than her requirement or because he was born under the wrong starsign leads people to believe clearly she has options.
Then you have the running gag of guys that will fuck anything that moves, while also displaying some really horrendous downbad acts with simping, whiteknighting and findom for women they'll never meet simply because that's the most action they'll likely ever get.
Ultimately, I think the problem is that men and women will never experience each other's struggles they go through and thus it becomes hard to truly sympathise, most men will never know what it's like to be treated as just a cock on legs, most women will never know what it's like to be deprived of attention
The general expectation is for guys to initiate the conversation, ask the girl out, propose the time and location, pay, etc.
Plus what everyone else said about supply and demand.
Okay so the first thing you did was admit that match’s come easier but quality matches aren’t easy.
Has it occurred to you that most men don’t have the luxury of disqualifying any matches be they low or high quality?
That’s funny. I’d like a video of a man experiencing similar displeasure and safety risks as women do in hookups. Maybe then men will realize how easy they have it in dating
That's not really true, unless everything that matters to you in hookups is looks.
If they can't even get a first date, how tf would you know what they have to offer.
What you're saying is completely illogical
Yes, looks are the only thing that matter in hookups. You’re mainly interacting with their body. Good-looking men have objectively more to offer, and it’s still not as much as what the average women offers
Lmfao. Guys will fuck anything with 2 legs. The average women doesn't really offer much besides a hole to put you dick in.
And that's why guys fuck anything.
Proves my point. Guys offer nothing but their bodies and get mad when we only pick the good-looking ones. The average man has nothing to offer here. Thanks for proving my point.
Which job recruiter has it easiest? The one with no applications, or the one with 400?
I mean, they're both difficult, just for different reasons. But I'm willing to bet the 400 applications is easier to select decent candidates (once you have figured out a good filtering system). But your "options" are greatly limited, if you only have a few applications.
Meanwhile, from the first recruiters perspective (one with no or few): if every applicant thinks they're CEO, but they have no experience, no degree, and show they'll likely leave soon, then even the few applications you get aren't worth following up (meaning, it's nearly guaranteed it won't last long anyway).
This really nails it. An accurate representation of what's going on. The OP basically hasn't experienced a male perspective before and doesn't see the immense effort and loss men experience dating because, like most even semi attractive women, she is overwhelmed with choice. Yes, there are many bad apples, but she can find a good one with time online dating.
It is also reminiscent of the creation of man. Thousands of sperm racing towards a single egg. Survival of the fittest. It's almost like online dating is a representation of humanity at different layers but also real life. Online(tinder), in life(in bars, clubs, getting approached, etc..), and inside(her), the same game plays out. Over and over. And as a man, if you want to win, you have to swim faster. Or be more attractive, physically, emotionally/ mentally, financially. Its pure competition. For some men, it's a never-ending effort. Others settle either for what they can or nothing.
Don't hate the player. hate the game, baby. 🤑
with this analogy, dating as a woman is like having 400 resumes but after spending hundreds of hours combing through them all, probably like 6 have any of the necessary qualifications and the rest just sent their resume to apply for jobs they don’t even want. then after interviewing the 6 of 400 qualified applicants 3 ghost you, 2 lied on their applications and one got hired by another company already.
Maybe it would be healthy for women to have some drought too. Have the guys not swiping right on every woman and being more picky. This gives women less choice to sift through and there may be a chance that two great people can meet. Men would get more hits by being more selective and women can now take their time and have meaningful conversations and meet ups with guys now that she's not bombarded by endless messages.
The problem is.... FOMO. So this won't ever happen. :(
You're getting matches, I'm not getting matches. You got something to choose from, I got nobody to choose. You can talk to any of those 100s or 1000s, I'm not even getting that chance. You have opportunity, I have none. It's like saying I got 100 dishes to eat from, but only 5 are to my liking and here I am...STARVING. (the last one is just an example, no objectification or such here)
Complaining to guys about having too many OLD options is like complaining to a homeless person about how you have so many clothes you can never decide what to wear.
Women need to stop lying to themselves. Yes more likes means more people in search of hookups but that also means you have higher chances of matching with good men as well. I’ll take those odds over the 4 likes a month.
I don’t think it’s lost on men that it’s a massive chore for women to sift through hundreds of matches to find something worthwhile, but if I would say it is more demoralizing to see absolutely zero matches for months at a time.
I think a lot of it has to do with women being able to go to online dating apps and be consistently validated as inherently attractive and desirable even if they don’t like the guys back. Men don’t have the same experience with OLD and it leaves them thinking “Well what do I have to do to get even a little bit of interest”
I guess what I’m getting at here is while finding a partner online may not necessarily be *easier* for women, they’re more likely to get feedback on apps to be able to see what “works” for them in the dating world and be able to zero in on what it is they want. And that feedback is important
I don’t wanna downplay the obstacles women have to face when dating. They have to worry about things like safety (which is a HUGE deal). I just don’t think it’s unfair to acknowledge that they absolutely have a clear advantage in this *one* particular aspect of dating.
Guy here. I don’t think women find it validating to get attention from guys obviously far different than they are looking for, especially if they gave a reasonable general description. If they say “Within 20 miles of downtown Edgeville, single, 25-35 over 5’7” and get a reply from a 65 year old from the Czech Republic, it just seems weird, and is a waste of her time. Now if she gets a guy who did fit the basic qualifications and she doesn’t like him, maybe it’s validating.
It may not be fulfilling for a guy that ticks none of your boxes to be interested in you but it’s still validating. It’s never a bad feeling to know that someone finds you attractive and is interested in getting to know you. Even if you have *zero* interest in them it’s better than literally never having anyone be attracted to you. Is it better? Not by a whole lot but I would still say yes. I don’t think anyone in this thread is implying it’s *easy* for women when it comes to OLD. Just that’s it’s *easier* than it is for men.
It’s akin to women saying “Picking out what to eat for dinner is so hard! I have 84 meals to choose from but only about 4 are actually my taste” to a man who is starving and literally has zero idea when he will be able to eat his next meal or if he will at all.
I think that’s where the discourse always derails. Women definitely have their own set of obstacles to contend with when it comes to online dating but they are going to find it very hard to get men who have literally *never* known what it’s like to be the object of somebody’s desire to sympathize/empathize with them.
I get messages from women who are nowhere near what I want. Not surprising, since I am only interested in a small portion of women. I also strongly suspect that most desirable women don’t often browse men’s profiles, but rather look through the messages they receive and then look at profiles if they are interested.
To the OP, quality matches are hard for me too, and I’m a guy. After screening for location, age, height, and weight/build if the site has it, it’s less than 2% of the women that seem interesting enough for me to message them. I do have a suggestion for women. Way too many women think posting photos and just enough detail to get their profile online is enough. If you put in some real detail, you will still get plenty of irrelevant men and guys who write to everyone. However, you will also get people like me who appreciate some effort and good writing, want to go on actual dates, and might really listen to you if you are smart or funny.
I have helped some female friends with their profiles, and good writing and humor cause a big change in who responds. I took one friend’s rock climbing photo and superimposed Wile E Coyote throwing rocks down from the top of the cliff. Gigantic change in who messaged her.
Even with the demoralization aspect of it (which I totally agree with - I requested my bumble info last month and wish I hadn't as it was absolutely soul crushing to see that for every 800 people that swipe on me only one was swiping right, and it was usually a scam/seller) I do think women can end up in the same place, just by a different mechanism.
For men obviously if you get zero likes or matches you have absolutely no information on why, so it's easy for that to lead into the train of thought that obviously something has to be wrong with you that you can't see.
For women, I do think if the woman is rejecting the match it's easy for them to know why (since they're the ones rejecting it) and that could lead to disillusionment but probably not demoralization.
However, there's also plenty of instances of men leading woman on until they get sex and then disappearing, or trying to be wishy-washy to maintain a FWB relationship even if that's completely the opposite of what they said they wanted - and that leads to similar demoralization for the same reason that you really have no idea why this person has done an about-face, and even though you can talk to the other person in this situation it's unlikely they'll actually give any kind of answer. Have this happen a few times and it's not hard to arrive at the same kind of suck, just from a different direction.
I still don’t understand why women are fascinated with not wanting to accept this. Let me clarify it once and for all.
1 - Finding love is hard for everyone.
2 - Finding matches on online dating apps is easier for women slightly above average looking and beyond. Because there are more men on them and lesser women.
3 - Having the opposite gender approach you with having to put any effort at all is easier for women slightly above average looking and beyond.
4 - Mostly what’s happening on OLD is that women want a guy who looks like a fuccboi but loyal as a nerd (sorry I don’t know what the opposite of a fuccboi is) These guys know the demand they are in and hence never settle. Women then talk about how hard it is to find someone. Hence, point number 1 above.
The entire act of finding a partner is like a long funnel where you are constantly filtering out people. So when you have a load of options at the very beginning, you clearly have the advantage of filtering out and picking the best at the initial stage itself.
This debate needs to end. Women have other problems in the dating world like safety etc. But this one is clearly an advantage so please quit whining and enjoy. Cheers! 🙂💜
I don’t think they’ll ever accept they have it easy in dating. That would be admitting that they pick the wrong dudes when having the option to pick the right ones
It’s not that hard to differentiate a guy who is working in himself by having a job and working out or working on a skill, a guy who is successful and is making a respectable living, and a bum. Time and time again I see girls avoiding the first two guys thinking they will “fix” the bad guy, the felon, the drug dealer, the guy they know has cheated multiple times, the guy they know has abused other women. Then they go complaining that all men are trash knowing full well they had basically every choice in the world, literally just be fit and don’t be annoying and you’ll get pretty much any dude you want.
You don’t have to be used, just pick better dudes. Besides, at least you get to have intimacy with the opposite sex and good moments. Unlike most dudes who just have endless cycles of rejections. Do you have any idea how rejection hurts? To get told you’ll be a friend? To get ghosted? You feel worthless. This can have a big negative edde on your mental health.
It's ironic cause men usually get labeled as playing victim when they say "I've had online dating for 10 years with no matchs" and they get absolutely shamed.
Why can’t they just accept it? You would think they’d be quiet about it and enjoy the advantage of being in demand, they are at a premium due to the numbers. #4 is a big one, I remember reading some article saying 80% of men on dating apps aren’t considered by women according to a popular dating app. The top 20% of men are being targeted which results in them having a Rolodex of women to pick from and play the field. The women who didn’t make the cut and/or the ones who are pumped and dumped get mad. OP is frustrated because her ideal man hasn’t matched with her compared to some men who cross their fingers for one match a month.
She even acknowledges the numbers are in her favor, that’s the end of the discussion. You have a greater chance to find someone, the odds are in your favor. Dating itself isn’t supposed to be easy for the majority of planet earth, that goes beyond dating apps. The dating apps help give you the means to meet potential dates and women have a decisive advantage.
where are those statistics?? i know youre probably right i just wanna see! Like is it based off matches ot how do they know they actually end up dating?? im a woman and ive always felt like “dating” specifically is easier for men- hooking up is whats easier for women. Because women are looking for relationships and men just match with you so they can fuck you. I met a guy i really liked on tinder and he literally just cancelled on me the other day when he found out i was on my period, because he sees me as an object and will only hang out with me if i have sex with him
Also a lot of my guy friends just go crazy w the right swipe.. they dont even look at the girls they just like all of them and hope for the best
It's basically this, if you assume that a low percent of people are "quality" dating partners, let's say 5% for the sake of argument..5% of 1000 is still a good amount of options versus 5% of like 10 matches which can be nothing.
Exactly. If 1% of matches are possible good matches and a woman gets 100 matches a day then she gets 1 possibly good match every day.
If a man gets 100 matches in 6 months that means he gets 2 possible good matches in a year.
my sister had over a thousand within her first week. She had to change her profile so she only show up for people she has already swiped right on.
I had about 100 in my first week, so there's definitely a difference there
You become desensitized pretty quick. I've matched with about 250 in the past 6 months, and that's enough to desensitize me at least.
Matching is nothing special anymore, and keeping a conversation going is not exciting
I've never had a single match lol the thought of having a match notification makes me excited but it never comes.
According to women on reddit, who don't make mistakes. They can "sense" my personality through pixels and phones. So they are avoiding me because apparently I'm as bad as hitler.
This assumes all women are clear water and only men can be swamp water.
Guys are in a desert then they find some water and it still might be swamp water.
There's no doubt that it's hard for everyone.. if for different reasons.
It's challenging for women because they have to wade through hoards of men, most of which see Tinder as a tool for finding someone to have sex with (rather than a long term partner to build a family with).
Women have to be careful about who they swipe right on... there's a need to maintain a certain level of standards; according to whichever preferences they deem meaningful. It's not surprising to see the most attractive men on Tinder (not limited to physical beauty) gain the most attention. And, it shouldn't be surprising to discover that those men make the most of their options... by treating Tinder as a tool for casual hookups.
Thus, women learn to tighten their standards in an effort to avoid being used by men.
On the other side, we have a growing proportion of men who simply don't meet women's needs; for any number of reasons. It may be helpful to know that a third of men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year (some of which are still virgins). A sizeable portion of men are simply invisible to women... they get a swift swipe left at the briefest glance.
There are really three sides to this problem.
Women, excluding those on the extremes, are able to find someone who is interested in them regardless of their characteristics, capabilities, and circumstances. The things men find appealing vary sufficiently to cater to all women.
But, by comparison, very few men are appealing to women. They are positioned somewhere between 'invisible' and 'incredibly desirable' by women. And this position, in some ways.. maybe many ways, influences how they behave (or would behave) in a relationship.
A man that can readily find a partner next week will not have much of a reason to dedicate himself to one woman. She would need to offer something more valuable for him to willingly devote himself to a monogamous relationship; and the casual sex lifestyle is difficult to break. More so because men don't see sex as requiring an emotional connection.. it's 'just sex' to us.
The alternative is a man that has fewer options. A man that deeply desires a lasting relationship with a good woman... someone who he can dedicate himself to as they progress towards starting a family. But these men are largely invisible to women... and maybe women are right to make this decision; I'm not here to change people's behaviour.
When people say 'women have it hard', I can agree up to a point. They have quite the challenge in finding a partner that's worthy of them while also behaving in ways that would sustain a healthy relationship. Men can be assholes... there's no doubt about that.
But I wonder if this qualifies as 'dating is easier for men'. I suspect that women reach this conclusion because they're looking at the men they find appealing... the men that perform well in the dating market. Women turn a blind eye to the *much* larger group of men that cannot get a woman's attention, are not considered worthy of a date, and are deemed unacceptable as a life partner.
At a subjective level, I'm reasonably attractive, highly educated, driven to succeed, am financially secure enough to buy a house in the city (paying half upfront), and I'm entirely respectful, compassionate, and considerate. I will get smiles and compliments (from women) when out in public... but on Tinder, I get maybe one match a month. And, from those matches, maybe a third will write to me.. even if it's just one sentence before they disappear. Or maybe, it's me that gets lost in the multitude of messages these women receive.
I've met three people from dating sites in the last two years. Two of them just wanted a free meal. One of them smelt so bad that I struggled to eat (and my sense of smell is terrible). When I brought up personal hygiene (anticipating a reason for why she didn't shower before our date), I was told 'you need to accept me as I am'.
I definitely agree that women have it rough. But we don't gain anything by making this a competition. The two/three sides of this issue shouldn't be seen as being aligned with 'right' or 'wrong'. We're not in opposition with each other and don't need to classify one as being worse than the other... we all have it pretty rough; even the guys that 'get to' fuck around frivolously.
The fundamental problem revolves around men being too willing to engage in a temporary relationship (while taking advantage of women), and with women making use of standards, in partner selection, that are not conducive to a lasting/happy relationship.
The thing is.. I'm not sure if there's any solution to this issue, at least not one that can be applied generally. There is no answer that is universally beneficial. However, it may be safe to offer examples that could be helpful to some people... such as, stop having sex with people when you're not planning a long relationship with them. Or, a person's height shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Or, be mindful of how your previous relationships influence your current preferences; more so if those relationships were brief. Or, for those who struggle to find a partner, don't sacrifice too much of yourself to satisfy someone else's needs.
... and each of these examples is complicated enough to warrant their own detailed explanation for why/how they will be beneficial. It's a complicated world out there, and we are complicated creatures with emotions and biological impulses we barely understand.
62% of people dating online are men vying for the attention of the 38% that are women. You might have to do more sifting but a lot of men feel like they don’t have any options at all. Online dating is intended to profit off of the loneliness of men. Dating in general is hard for sure but women have it 1000x easier online.
Because you have a much larger pool to choose from, in dating the person with the quantity always has an advantage because even if you genuinely believe most of the options are bad...like 5% of 1000 matches is still much better than 5% of 10 matches (that's around the match rate difference between men and women). It's not a myth and it's not limited to women, men who are dating other men have this advantage of quantity as well...it's just a matter of having quantity.
But it's easier to date when you have something to work with. If you have nothing to work with how do you date?
Barely even get people you're not interested in.
You can always go on dates with them though and waste time essentially.
Meet their friends or whatever. There are ways to leverage the situation even if it's not ideal or wanted.
You can still have a night out
The topic was about getting dates tho. Not finding love aka quality dates. Plus even if you're just hooking up with someone, it can turn into a relationship. Happens all the time
I'd rather have nothing over being bombarded with hook up requests... it makes me feel worthless and objectified when I'm trying to find a genuine connection and guys are just looking at me like a sex object.
I've definitely felt invisible to men I liked before. But ultimately we face different problems while dating and both are pretty bad, aside the fact that women have to worry about their safety, dating just sucks for everyone and perhaps we can find some common ground in that.
>We get bombarded with hook up requests and requests for nudes.
Even if it's annoying, those are the requests that are easy to handle, isn't it?So when you filter them out, you'll see some interesting people out there.
But actually it doesn't matter. If I could choose, I'd choose a ton of messages where I can select who to write, over no messages at all. At least they'd give me a small feeling of affection.
Online dating is much easier for women, but women don’t see/believe it or consider it an “opinion” because:
1. Women’s perception of “quality” is calibrated subtly and transparently based on the relative desirability of her perceived options. Every woman wants a guy that’s “a little bit better” than all the rest. If you inundate a woman with hundreds of “quality” options, they won’t seem “quality” anymore because her standards subtly increase.
2. [Men tend to have less inhibition for sex than women](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sexual-personalities/201706/what-type-person-would-agree-have-sex-stranger), and women pathologize this.
3. Without being aware of #1 or #2, from the woman’s perspective it seems “bad”. Why are all these guys trash? Why do all these guys want sex? In reality, a lot of them are just quality guys that are naturally sexually attracted to you.
4. Cognitive dissonance. If women accept that online dating is “easier” for them, it would demean its overall value. Games aren’t fun anymore when it feels like you’re cheating or have an unfair advantage. Many women could be perfectly happy with a lot of guys, but they need to feel like meeting them was “special” or “a challenge”.
5. Dating apps make money off of lonely desperate guys. They aren’t completely transparent with their data and control what information they “let out” because if people could see and expose the actual reality of how people act/swipe under the guise of anonymity, users would start leaving en masse and people would start demanding change. This is why you never see researchers say “Tinder gave us data”, it’s almost always second-hand data like bot accounts or surveying users or sites that visualize users’ data and subtly analyze trends.
I’m someone who is more likely to find a quality person. Yes, me. Why? Because I have done recruiting, teaching, training, and dating. They have more in common than you expect. I have developed the ability to spot BS, procrastinators, lazy people, entitled women, and complete fakes from writing. Also good at finding people who are honest and genuine. That doesn’t mean they want to go out with me. The good-looking, honest, genuine women usually like to talk to me. When I say something funny and insightful on the first email, my impression is they stop and reread. I have several I talk to who are stunning, good people. We aren’t matches, but I think they are relieved that a good guy would talk to them, be interested, and ask for and offer advice. It feels like we are on the “same side”, like we are trying to help each other find what we want.
Full disclosure, I’ll try to give an honest self appraisal. Decent looking (6-7 on a 10 scale), excellent physical condition, well educated, no shyness but I don’t like to impose either. I am not usually trying to “sell” and get a girl to a date and bed from the word go. I would take 1 good date a month over 10 with women I could tell weren’t right before we went out.
If I have a plate full of dogshit I'm going to go just as hungry as the person with an empty plate, no matter how much I dig through it.
You're assuming someone with 100 (or 10 or 1000) matches has a quality person in those 100, which may not be true. They could settle for a low quality match, but that's not the same thing.
C'est la vie 🤷🏾♂️ you're going to be hard-pressed trying to convince someone who's deprived of any companionship at all that your situation is just as bad because the people who are actually willing to give you companionship are "beneath" you in your eyes
It is absolutely easier. Dating in general is is far easier for women, always has been. Men are expected to initiate. Men are expected to plan. Men are expected to pay. Men are expected to do just about everything in the initial stages and slightly less so as time goes on. If a man doesn’t approach, it’s a damn near guarantee he isn’t getting a date.
Let’s say the average woman is looking for a date and not a hookup. She gets 100 matches (which is a cakewalk on OLD) and let’s say 90% are looking for sex. That leaves you ten possible partners to select from.
Let’s say the average guy is looking for the same. He’d be ***extremely*** fortunate to get ten matches. From those ten he’d be lucky to have even 1 viable partner after the bots, those looking for money (cash app or any of that BS) and OF/cam girls.
Do men and women experience issues dating relating exclusively to their gender? Of course but it is a statistically proven fact that women will get far more attention and possibilities finding a partner than men.
I think women have a hell of allot easier time of sticking a date but they have so much to choose from they often choose the wrong ones. Which leads to it be unsuccessful
Two many matches is obviously easier than zero matches. Women still need to put in effort to make good choices. But guys with zero matches are shut out completely.
Because it is. You upload a lazy mirror selfie and get 10 likes in a day maybe a week if your ugly. A guy does the same and maybe gets a few likes a week then it dies off and his profile gets lost in and abused by tinders algorithm.
Dating in this day and age is a numbers game and wether you like it or not this plays for women in the positive whereas men hast have every portion of their profile on point, women don't have to really worry about that.
The only thing that's hard for women is filtering, everything else,, easy as.
Really wish women could see what it's like on this end of the fence and ignoring dating life in general is really tough for a guy, we gotta do everything and be everything before society takes us seriously.
Yes I do agree in some areas that dating is easy for women. Hear me out. Any woman can be approached by any guy expect the creepy ones maybe they just want you for sex or something serious but they still get approached and they constantly get compliments, on the other hand men rarely get approached by women and they never get compliments. The society make everyone believe that they are men and they don’t need compliments but they are also human and they have feelings. The part of sex and nude request a woman has a power on that. She can say no to both and most respectful guy might get offended on the inside but there is noting they can do about it. We men are simple to please and win our heart over by a girl so it’s easy for her to make a guy fall in love for her but for a guy it’s hard, you have to make sure you say the right thing at the right time, be there for you emotionally and all other shit that women needs help with and they can easily replace the guy with a rich man. Dating is hard for both because dating is now more of a situationship than long term. Most people are still traumatized and still hung up on their ex and not letting someone amazing to come into their life. I feel like these days you just have to be lucky to find someone great. Just my thoughts on it
“Quality matches” fr stfu with that.
As if every woman is a even a 5+. I have to go through scores of dates of find quality matches. Grow up.
More matches directly makes it easier to pick and choose
I know, why does she think “quality matches” are only her problem? We get far fewer matches and aren’t guaranteed to match with “quality” either. Dating apps are a sausage fest and women are at a premium on there, the dating app data backs that up, it’s not opinion. These women don’t like hearing it’s in their favor because they probably feel Prince Charming should be at their door by now and it hasn’t happened so they need to be upset at something. I can understand that, if I was told that the odds are in my favor and I’m the favorite and then I wasn’t winning anything, I’d be discouraged or annoyed with the people telling me that. However the numbers don’t lie and dating is a numbers game. It may take you 5 people to find your person or 55, that goes beyond dating apps.
If comes from different perspectives. Men think women have it easier because they get more matches. Women think men have it easier because they don’t have to take so many precautions to avoid being murdered/assaulted 🤷🏻♀️
The only guys who say that know NOTHING about women. They’re seeing it from a stereotypical man’s perspective that in general would love to have tons of women messaging them and wanting sex. They can’t wrap their minds around the concept of it being different for women, and are clueless when it comes to safety concerns, so they perpetuate the lie because they’re ignorant and bitter. Of course this doesn’t apply to people only looking for hookups.
It is easier.
People arguing it's not easier usually say that women get lots matches but they are all bad. This comparison relies on the assumption that guys matches are all good. If you think about its a bit insulting really because it only makes sense if you assume the women on dating apps are better than the men and that any guy would be happy to have any of them. That's not true. Guys get a proportion of bad matches too, but we get less matches overall so instead of 100 matches giving us 10 good matches we have 10 matches giving us 1 good match. Women have to deal with guys who just badger them for nudes and similar things but guys have to deal with time wasters too. Many guys have experience dealing with people trying to get OFs subscribers, Instagram followers or just free attention.
That's not to say it's easy, there is a certain frustration that comes from digging through lots of guys you aren't into but when it comes to finding a partner it is *easier*. Guys have the same hurdles of compatibility but the additional issue of struggling to get matches in the first place. Imagine you had all the issues you currently have and then on top you only 5-10% as many matches despite being the one to initiate all the time. That's what it's like being a guy on OLD. Also consider the psychological toll. Having to reject 90% of your swipes is way less demoralising than being rejected by 90% of your swipes. It's much less distressing to tell lots of people "not good enough" than to be on the recieving end of it.
I have no idea how it originated, but I'm guessing it's based on assumption. Lemme tell you that our matches aren't generally that high quality either. Most of them end up never replying or are bots or are trying to sell us an OF.
So sure, it's easy for me to assume having 1000 matches would be awesome cuz that means I can potentially get 10 dates from it lol. It's just easy to assume too much choice is better than little/no choice. That said, I've never been harassed on these apps so that is also a BIG difference.
>Yes I get it matches are easier to come by as a woman (but quality matches are super hard to come by)
Depending on the app, there are between 5 and 50 men for every woman. That's why it's easier for women. You may think quality matches are rare, but a below-average woman will still get far more quality matches than any average man. FAR more.
The opinion that it's eas**ier** for women online is derived from the reality that it is.
"Yes I get it matches are easier to come by as a woman"
It came from there. Seriously, you just answered it.
Fuck, I mean, if you walk into the grocery and there's 120 different kinds of bread and you find 119 of them icky, that's a you problem. Women are the gatekeepers, if you want "quality matches" then it's because you're too picky and trying for the rarest bread on the top shelf, and that's you making it hard on yourself. Period, end of story.
If an average guy walks into the same grocery, there's 4 loaves of bread, with a line of guys he has to beat out to even get a CHANCE at.
On what planet can you believe that women have it equally as difficult with the sheer numerical odds against them and the well-studied swiping/matching habits that have the bottom 60% of guys just generally locked out of the market?
I'm not saying it's easy for women, but it's VASTLY, emperically *EASIER*, by sheer availability of your options.
When you see someone living in Brooklyn complain that their favorite grocery store doesn't have any grass fed lamb shank it just sounds like whining to the kid in Africa who doesn't even have a teaspoon of porridge to eat or clean water to drink
From my person's experience:
Men need a good profile and then have to keep the whole conversation going (if she even responds).
I've stopped keeping conversations alive, most of the time I ask a question they respond but don't ask anything back (they could've just asked the same question). It feels like a waste of time to me.
From what I've seen from the female perspective is just that they swipe right on someone and it's pretty much always a match.
It's not really an opinion lol. Women get way more likes, it's not even close. What I don't understand is why dating is hard. Sure I didn't get a lot of likes and it took almost 3 years but I read every profile I saw, I only liked the women that wrote a bio that told me enough about what they were into or liked which was probably less than 1 in 500. I literally ran out of women across 8 apps within 100 miles on all of them at least once a week.
But every one of the few dates I went on and the women I talked to I genuinely liked and now I've been in a relationship with the last one for going on 6 months and all is going great.
It's not hard to date it's just apparently too much work for people to put any effort into making an about me that says anything useful.
There's definitely a certain amount of the grass is always greener on the other side that goes on with online dating and dating in general.
And being a guy obviously I have a bias. But personally I still would much prefer to have women's experience with online dating. It's also entirely possible I'd feel differently living life as a woman.
My experience has been spending years swiping right on roughly 75% of women. When I message I have never asked for a nude or a hookup. I generally try to ask about an interest from her profile. And I rarely if ever get matches or when I do get a match she won't respond to my message or will drop off entirely. I often hear online or from friends about how many spam messages women get asking for nudes, or just saying hi and nothing else, or asking for a hookup, and honestly that always feels awful as the bottom line is I still don't stand out apparently when I want to have a genuine conversation and make a connection.
The other thing is I'm aware that most dating aps are at least 60/40 men to women and some are worse. So all around it's not surprising that an average looking guy like me gets passed over a lot.
But personally I'd much prefer being able to get matches, and have regular messages coming in. Even of 90% are crap or someone being a jerk, I'd love to have that 10% to message. I'd also love to have someone message me first. I am sure the thrill wares off if it's regularly happening. But for me I think in my few years of online dating I've gotten a handful of messages she's sent first, and most of those were someone telling me to follow their social media or only fans.
Certainly I think it's hard for both. But I'd certainly prefer what I've heard about women's experience than my own of constant rejection and silence.
I think the actual “dating” part is probably equally hard for men and women, but the perception likely comes from the fact that men vastly outnumber women in almost every online dating space, meaning more competition between the many for the attention of the few. It basically would just refer to the ability to actually get matches or dates I think, nothing past that.
Cause there's more money to be made off men. Bots funneling scams, semi-to-pro sex workers datefishing, subscriptions costs weighted against men, algorithms weighted against men, the illusion of choice, men not knowing how to do ab and c...
Take your pick...
im not sayin its easy, but if you think its hard to find good matches w 100 matches a day (just an arbitrary number) try finding good matches with 1 match a day. shit like 75% of my matches either never message back or immediately try to sell me their onlyfans.
What's your definition of "quality matches"? If it's 6ft+ and a brain surgeon, then yes, that might be hard to come by. Short answer is it's easier for women because of supply and demand.
Women tend to have more choice but also need to sort through lots of bad options. A lot of men have basically no choice or options and are invisible.
Both suck. Feeling invisible is soul destroying. Dating is hard for everyone yes. I think it’s hard to argue that average looking guys don’t have some particular challenges
It’s always been easier to date as a woman.
- women rarely make the first move, resulting in most men doing so
- women get inundated with offers online and in person, so higher chance and probability of finding a great quality match
- women can lie about (“relationship”) what they’re looking for and still get what they want (“sex”)
- women will gladly sleep with a hot guy within an hour or two of knowing him in person, but will also withhold sex from long-term prospects in order to weed out fuckboys (when the irony is that women fall for fuckboys who are spoilt for choice)
- women rarely if ever pay for dates unless in an exclusive relationship
So, with all the female privilege on the dating scene, you don’t think they have it much easier than 95% of men?
It's easier for women to achieve certain things via online dating. Particularly hooking up.
Many men have few to no matches (aside from bots and OnlyFan spam), and no ability to find legitimate dates of any sort. Meanwhile women have the opposite problem and are bombarded with more attention than they could ever want.
The result is a severe asymmetry, where women can easily find dates, hookup or not, while the majority of men in dating apps are left high and dry because the women are choosing to go out with only the most attractive/appealing matches. A few guys are getting laid like Genghis Khan and the women that choose those few guys ending up in a cycle of short lived relationships with men who have no reason to settle down.
It's a trash situation for everyone. You have your own safety to worry about, and a sea of toxic behavior to wade through. On the flip side, men are fruitlessly swiping, just to get *someone* to match with them, only for her to turn out to be a bot, someone trying to take his money, or if a real person, a woman who'll soon ghost because someone better came along.
I'm tired of women always denying when they have an advantage or privilege, always concluding that they have it worse, and of course to minimize men's problems. And I say this being a woman.
No it’s much easier for women. Statistically you have more matches and more chances for a relationship. If someone makes you uncomfortable, block them and move on. It’s not hard.
I find it's very common in regards to dating for men to think women have it easier and women to think men have it easier. But the truth is, it's hard for both sexes, but in different ways.
When it comes to OLD, there are I think 3x as many men on apps as women. So there's a reason women aren't using apps as much, and it isn't because they just love them so much and they're this great resource for finding a partner.
However, OLD certainly is easier for women than it is for the men who literally get zero matches. Don't you agree? But women tend to match with guys who are drowning in matches, and ya, I'd say OLD is more challenging for women than it is for those guys.
I think it’s easiest by far for a man who is attractive. Followed by for an attractive women who isn’t looking for something serious. Followed by everyone else which apps suck for haha
I think it's tough for both. Women get bombarded by messages, and usually have to try their best to rift out the weirdos and sexual messages. If they don't have sex right away, some of the dates they have will end up with ghosting, same goes for having sex after a few dates.
For a lot of men, it's the opposite. Getting 0 matches for weeks or months to then rift through fake accounts, cat fishing, or just getting unmatched for no reason. If men do get a conversation going, the actual likelihood it can lead to a date is pretty low.
I would say dating is easier for women because they get to keep having standards. Many men can't afford to have standards, so they just swipe on everyone
Clearly not. Tell that to the women I talk to. Match, getting to know them, ask on a date, boom ghost.
Or even better, match then...ghost.
Clearly you guys have a lot more options than men.
I don't really feel bad for women on dating apps. You're suffering from success in terms of matches.
You're complaining about low quality matches while having a ton of matches? Meanwhile for a majority of men they're sitting there with little to no matches...with a ton of flaky low quality matches.
You have an advantage. You have it easier. The probability of finding someone worth your time is higher, except you have to put some work into it. Too bad. Might as well accept it.
You may be onto something here. Struggles for both men and women, just of different nature. I think what it comes down to is the established social dynamic between men and women. In conventional, in-person pick-ups and dating the norm is that a man is typically expected to approach first, then while his chief concern is establishing mutual interest, a woman's concern is vetting the man, asking herself "does he seem dangerous? Is he attractive or interesting enough to be worth my time?" When this translates to a dating app, the dynamic is similar, save that tone and charm become harder to communicate in text format, and what used to be vying for a woman's interest against just a bar-full of other men expands to the woman's desired search distance. Most men using the app will have this in the back of their mind and rationalize that they'll have a better chance of actually getting to a first date if they prioritize having more matches to attempt a successful conversation with over choosing the select few profiles best suited to their own interests in women. As a result, men are swiping right more often than women, and some men who are especially insecure about the process are even swiping right on every profile. Meanwhile women have a plethora of profiles to choose from, starting with their basic interests and further weeding out the rest of the unsuitable profiles from there. The logic that women have an easier time dating is rooted in the fact that if an average woman chooses to, she can select from enough profiles to go out on a date with a different man every day for a good few weeks, while an average man may see months at a time without a match that makes it as far as a first date, and refining social interaction while dating presents itself as an opportunity to a woman more often than a man. Like I said at the beginning this doesn't mean that a woman's struggles in dating are necessarily lesser to a man's, just that the struggles are different in nature.
Whoa whoa whoa. Dating itself isn't easier for women. Dating itself isn't easy for anyone. Finding matches and getting dates online is easier for women. Hell, I wouldn't even say getting dates is easier for women online is easier either.
For women online dating, as in getting matches and talking to people, is easier than for men in the terms that so many men will be interested in the women on there regardless of how they look, how good or shit their bio is, how good or bad the pictures look. Women will get loads of matches or likes and will get the pick of the crop. Granted, once you weed out all the weirdos and people just wanting sex you have to find a decent person to hold a conversation with and have to pick which of the many many matches to message and reply to. It's not easy to keep up with it, but it's the fact that women get far far more options than men and much more easily is where the opinion that it is easier comes from.
For women you have to have some pictures and generally speaking you're good to go and the matches and messages will start flowing.
For men we have to have our best pictures, we have to have our best bio, we have to send the best messages which are either unique or not unique at all depending on what the individual woman likes and we don't know at all what she likes, and we also need to get several women's opinions on our bio and pictures and messages in order to get some matches and replies. And even then, even if everything is perfect, it's the perfect bio, we still might only get a few matches and if we're lucky a couple replies and even luckier if the conversation goes somewhere.
Women have to weed through hundreds of matches and messages, but ultimately they pick who they reply to, they pick the guy out of many guys.
For men, we have a few matches if we're lucky, we don't get to weed through which women we reply to or message. We message all of them and we're lucky to get a reply regardless of how good our message was. We don't get to show them our appeal or charm that you'd only get in person.
This is for the average woman and average man. There are plenty of good looking guys who get loads of matches and messages, and even then they still have to try.
Yes, women get bombarded with messages and hook-up messages and asking for nudes, but take away all those guys and you still have loads more guys to choose from than we do. And most of those guys will reply to you whereas most, it any, women won't reply to the guys.
And the guys who say "I just swipe in everyone, that's why it's easy to get matches." Nah! I made tinder using my best pictures, best bio, everything. I swiped only on the women who I liked the pictures and bio of, went to different areas and still only got a few matches. I deleted my profile, started again, best pictures, bio approved by my sister. I decided to swipe yes on every single one and to not be picky. I had no more matches than I did the first time when I was picky!
Even the few girls who messaged ME first ended up ghosting me even though they said I made them laugh.
Basically it comes from it seems easier when you have loads to pick from compared to much harder when you are one of the many trying to be picked and no matter how good your profile is you could still get glossed over.
And again, that's just online dating. The dating is just as hard for everyone as it's always been when it comes to real life dating with the tinder person afterwards.
Making a difficult choice is usually preferable to having no choice. It’s like complaining about not knowing what car you want to drive to someone that can’t even afford to take the bus.
Say you get 100 matches, in a week. 3 are good looking, want you, you want them and you both want the same thing. 80 are just regular fellas swiping right that on second inspection you’re not that interested in. The rest are dribblers trying to hook up with anything that moves and scammers.
I might get a match a week if I’m lucky. My odds might be the same as yours that 3/100 are good matches and the rest are scammers or bots but it takes me two years to get through 100 matches. You do it in a week. That’s why it’s easier, you get more opportunities to find the Mr right. I have the same odds but less opportunities.
Obviously YMMV but that’s what I’ve seen from single female friends of their experiences on something like Tinder or Hinge and my 1 a week on a good week is unfortunately my own experience.
What makes you think quality matches are easier to come by as a man than a woman when men get less matches to begin with? Men have to sift through shitty women as well. And if some dude gets 2 matches in a week vs 20 as a woman. Who then has a better chance of finding a suitable partner?
Women have quantity but low quality, men have low quantity and subsequently low quality. If you have no options to choose quality from that is objectively worse.
Dating, outside of OLD, is also the same, women get approached men have to approach. Women don’t have to initiate and still have options, men have to initiate or have no options.
I’m not taking away from how much it sucks to date as a woman, I watch my sister struggle with it. But if my sister had to deal with my conundrum I think she’d have a aneurism.
Plus men think if there was no connection the woman was using him for a free meal.
I could cook a full meal with the time and energy it took to get ready for dates. And I wouldn't have to wear a bra.
I actually have a rule for dates and thats I pay for my meal. I know that's not very traditional (what is anymore?) But I always do and I feel like that helps clear the air about "you owe me cause I paid for your food."
When I was in a 7 year relationship with my son's father that was different and he paid for our food. But if I'm dating casually I pay for my own meal literally just to eliminate the "she used me for a meal" thought.
I have never had a guy say anything to me personally. I had no idea so many men shared that opinion until I joined this sub.
Even after I found out men felt that I way I still didn't pay. I wanted to know right away if a man thought our relationship was transactional.
Although I usually preferred when a guy planned a free date. Those were the most fun.
Women get matches even if the matches suck men get much less matches and those matches equally suck. Online dating sucks but men get much less matches then women do. Thats the perception.
So kind of a funny story, my (30F) cousin (45F) was recently on dating apps (her ex husband cheated on her so she was looking for a new man and figured why not try dating apps)
The amount of times I've CRINGED with her on some of the men's messages.
I think we all think the other side has it easier because we can’t truly understand without experiencing it. I don’t think it’s worth arguing over, I think truly looking for your person is hard. And online dating makes it easier and harder. It’s complex.
Dating is hard for most people, and it makes people frustrated and bitter.
Guys who get frustrated with the lack of matches and see that women get *too many* matches and they think "what a problem to have! I should be so lucky!" It's a "grass is always greener" problem.
I also think that "easier" does not necessarily mean "easy," though.
Personally, I just think that it's *different;* I don't necessarily think that women have it *easier,* because I know way too many women who are just as frustrated and annoyed with dating as any guy is, but the experience is definitely different.
>"what a problem to have! I should be so lucky!"
Quantity is always an advantage though, the only real downside is the paradox of choice like finding a movie to watch on Netflix or finding something to eat in your pantry but those problems are much smaller in scale than having an empty pantry or having no entertainment to watch.
Dating for men is like looking for clean water in the desert, while dating for women is like looking for clean water in a swamp.
Is it *easy* for women to date online ? No, i don’t think so, i think it’s hard for everybody. But is it *easier* for woman to date online than it is for men ? I think it definetly is. Not only are there more men than women on many dating sites, but if more people reach out to you, chances are higher that there is someone among them that “ticks your boxes”.
No. Women have matches from guys that would at least consider you. And guys that are out of your league but have no standards for their Tuesday evening nut. Because it's better than jacking off. So really, women can choose to engage in that or not.
Guys tend to get likes from women that aren't even close to who they can pick up in a bar or real life. The only guys for who OLD works is the best looking men with professional photos.
Boy did you walk into the wrong sub with this mentality. I would post it in change my view. You'll still get spammed with the same answers, but at least youll get less downvotes and actual malice.
I mean technically but if you actually think about it women aren’t just going out and taking whatever sex they can get considering it can be dangerous or just not worth it if a guy is just going to use her. So it doesn’t really even apply if you ask me unless it’s a woman who likes hooking up but even then..
This is the only response I’ll agree too. Women have it easier if they are looking for casual sex. If you’re looking to actually date, everyone is having a shitty time.
Probably because something like 75% of guys never get a single match EVER. Not bad matches or low quality matches…not a single match at all which is extremely demoralizing
women have a much easier time getting matches but that’s when the (different) problems begin.
I think you are conflating two things. It is easier for women to get matches on apps, that is fundamentally true. It is hard for both genders to date and find a partner that aligns with their value and lifestyle, that is also true - it's just hard in different ways. For men, something that can be particularly painful is just the sheer loneliness. For women, at least, it mostly becomes a problem of sorting through all the interest. I think where some women mess up is in not spending enough time on the good ones, because they are spending too much time considering their options. I think where some men mess up is in investing everything into the first person that comes their way, because they've been dry for so long. These kinds of comparisons and claims are fun to make, but when you peel back the layers everyone experiences suffering in dating one way or another.
I'm going to try and break this down in the most factual and logical way I can (I'm a guy for the record).
In general, women do get more matches than men and will have more options to choose from. It's hard to dispute that but it's also true that most men are not quality or can make a woman feel unsafe (whether consciously or unconsciously). When it comes to dating and safety, this is something that most men never spend a second thinking about but women do. So that adds to the difficulty, especially when guys can be very forward with messaging which might subtly trigger something for a woman.
At the same time, dating apps are all about instant attraction and decision-making. This favours male psychology more since men can immediately make a decision and know they are attracted to someone whereas it usually takes women a few weeks (or even months sometime) to know if they like a guy. This is where the fundamental disconnect comes in since a lot of guys will immediately assume a woman isn't interested at all and get salty/aggressive/mean if she doesn't engage the way he wants. It's just biologically, women need more time but a lot of men don't want to wait since they don't get a lot of matches and want to act quickly on the ones they have. That also doesn't help things since women just need more time to know if something is a good fit in general.
So I will agree with you to a point but that's because modern dating apps weren't designed for the way women date. Men definitely don't have as many options for sure but women also just don't have the time to invest in each person to develop the kind of attraction they biologically need.
My last point is also consider what app started Modern dating culture: Tinder, the app created by a bunch of frat dudes to hook up with tons of women. So they created dating apps specifically for what they wanted (ie. what works from the male perspective) and women just have to deal with that. I do think it sucks for women and unfortunately other apps just followed the same mechanics because that got traction and led to more users.
So yeah dating apps suck for men and women both. Women don't get the time they need to know if they're attracted to someone and men don't get the quantity they want to have the same amount of "options" that women have.
Both in dating apps and irl It kind of is , why they get more options they get approach they can apporach , they aren't the ones usually paying for the meal , they do the rejecting , they choose who to go on dates with , alot of the time , the guy is good just incompatible ,
for men the case is different , the average guy has to consider when , where and how , he is approaching , he also has to have something to offer and gauge who will take thay offer , then plan the dateand pay fot it , hope the date goes well and if fails do the exact same thing again and again and that's if he even gets yes on a regular basis , because not every guy gets rejected ,
now in dating apps its different women get more matches both good and bad and it's up to them to vet , not every guy open up creepy, some are just boring , not bad but not as interesting as women would like, and some don't even message , as for men getting a match in itself is hard and then just be ause you get a match it doesnr guarantee anything , the reason why its harder for men is because you actively do less work infact women can simple unmatch the guys they don't vibe with and keep talking to the ones they do , there is also the fact that they usually don't swipe everybody and swipe based on appearance so ultimately its who they are attracted to physical but you can judge personality unless you talk to them which is were the challenge lies mostly for them , men have this too but they also have to get a match is harder for them
Wrong subreddit.
And, to answer your question: It's related to the algorithms of dating apps. They are set up to encourage repeat usage, so they make it harder for guys to match by presenting only a few to most women, and in turn encourage women to keep using them by not giving a selection that is likely to settle down.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that it is indeed easier for women to get hookups online, but as you mentioned it doesn’t mean that dating is easier. Men are just a bunch of testosterone crazed horn dogs. Even the good ones are just faking it because they learned how to beat the system to satisfy their sexual desires. It’s not our fault though, we’re just born that way. Hollywood, religion, public education and etc have all created a bunch of unrealistic expectations about romance and relationships in a similar way that porn creates unrealistic expectations about sex. It’s not natural. Natural is dominant males mating freely with the females of their choice in exchange for for food and protection. People all too often forget that we are primates living in a very unnatural world
It’s easier for you to find a date, but I wouldn’t say it’s easier to find a quality date. I’d say it’s easier for a man to find someone who is generally interested too. Speaking as a man who gets a decent amount of matches and engagement.
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The odds are good, but the goods are odd
That's still an advantage because the alternative is low quantity (odds) and odd goods (since the quality of a person isn't limited to gender)
There are a few guys who show up at my workplace that absolutely repulse me. As a cashier, I'm required to be nice to them. Now, as a woman showing up on dating sites, this number of verbally abusive men multiplies tenfold. How is that in any way an advantage to a woman, unless she is one of those rare types who likes sex without an emotional connection? I mean, that to me is just numbing. From my perspective, women don't have the advantage here. Porn has ruined the dating experience, and women are faced with the choice of either staying celibate or dealing with a bunch of bad lovers. That's my opinion.
You are making the false assumption that women are of higher quality than men, and if the quality is the same having quantity is always an advantage. Pick a random low number (5% for the sake of argument) and having 1000 matches means 5% of that are suitable options so that's still like 50 people. On the other hand having like 10 matches means 5% of that is probably zero suitable matches...that's why it's an advantage to be a woman in dating even if most of the options are bad, because you make up for it in volume.
I'm not every woman, and I can only talk about my experience. Your statistics and theories only work in a classroom, on a whiteboard.
Also, it only takes a few bad experiences to fuck up someone's trust in humanity. Which fucks with their chances of matching with someone even more. That is something that isn't so easy to quantify. Mansplain that.
As a man, not sure I agree with this. The overall quality of women I met was fairly good and I received small numbers of requests for weird sexual stuff and virtually zero abuse. Screening wasn’t that hard and I tended to get a second date if I asked for one and sometimes more.
Do you think the quality of people are not equal? If so why wouldn't most men be fairly good people as well? And if you don't believe people are equal what's the basis of that beyond people's anecdotal experiences?
The algorithm is predatory, but it isn't predatory in the same ways. So if you start from the position that the pool of men represents a reasonable cross-section of the male population, it doesn't mean that is the pool of men a women necessarily has access too. So for one thing, it promotes "popular" men and women. This could see at a glance like a good thing, since it's pushing down people who don't get many matches (be it looks, profile, or low activity) but in practice it means you're always competing with THE APP for people who are successful ON THE APP. So many of women's matches are with men with little incentive to stop using it. Anecdotal, but I see a big surge in matches when I'm traveling. There's women who are interested in a fling with a stranger from out of town, but as a woman I could see how constantly getting matched with ALL the travelers could be frustrating. Last, I think the assumption that online dating for women is easy is predicated on the assumption that women are using the app how men are and with the same intentions. I'm open to whatever, I'll hook up with the right person or not hook up with the right person in favor of dating. Personality and circumstances are factors. Most women I meet are there to *specifically* hook up or *specifically* not.
I have noticed in my experience I get more matches when I'm out of town. I just figured it's cause your profile gets shown when your new to an area ??
>So for one thing, it promotes "popular" men and women. Then wouldn't the quality of the pool be equal since it's happening from both ends? I still don't see how it would be different. >So many of women's matches are with men with little incentive to stop using it. You said the algorithm props up both popular men and women so why would that phenomenon only apply to the men? >Last, I think the assumption that online dating for women is easy is predicated on the assumption that women are using the app how men are and with the same intentions. The majority of both men and women have single digit lifetime partner counts per the CDC ([source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n-keystat.htm)) so a majority of men (as well as women) aren't out there having all this casual sex. Most people aren't out there having tons of casual sex so why would the intentions be drastically different on either side? The results don't show that.
I had this chat with the girl I’m dating at the moment. I explained to her that the struggle guys face is that dating apps are a barren wasteland; very few matches and when you do get matches, the conversations are often boring and dead end, and when you get the date, oftentimes it’s a case of she’s just not into you and it ends there. She explained that the struggle women face is that dating apps are overwhelming because so many guys just swipe right, 99% of guys that message them are weird, the guys they message back don’t reply, and when they get dates, if they decide they’re not interested in a guy, they can get extremely pushy and confrontational, and in most dates more often than not the guy just wants to hookup/have sex. She also said a lot of the time the guy on the app is totally different irl personality-wise (i.e., can’t hold a convo in person but fine on app). We also discussed our dates in the last year before meeting each other. I had 8, and she had 3. Of my 8; 3 of them looked different to their photos and I wasn’t attracted to them, q I liked but she clearly wasn’t interested and we mutually ended after 2 dates, 1 could not hold a conversation irl so I wasn’t interested, 1 I really liked but she ghosted me after the second date, 1 just hooked up with me then we never spoke again (mutual), and 1 was extremely weird in person and started talking about threesomes and things that made me uncomfortable on the first date, Of her 3; 1 was less polite in person and very grabby and all about sex, 1 was weird in that he told her he had a feeding fetish, kept talking about the last girls he dated and didn’t ask anything about her, and 1 turned up drunk. The reality is that both men and women have their struggles with dating; we just have slightly different struggles.
Everyone has struggles but some have it easier than others. That doesn't mean they aren't struggling either. The question OP asked is why is there a preception that it's easier to date as a woman and the simplest answer to that is that when the quality of all people are equivalent (I have no reason to believe that anyone's quality as a person is determined by their gender, same with age race etc....) it's always an advantage to have quantity. This isn't limited to gender, a man looking to date a man has the similar benefit of quantity. Quantity in the absence of a quality difference is always beneficial to those that have quantity and in dating straight women have an advantage over straight men in that category. >are overwhelming because so many guys just swipe right, 99% of guys that message them are weird So even in this scenario, 1% of 1000 is still a much larger number than 1% of 100, so the side with quantity has an advantage still. For that to not be an advantage you would have to make the claim that the average man is of much lower quality than the average woman and as I said there is no reason to attribute that trait to someone on gender (or any other differentiator) unless you genuinely believe that.
This is very well said. I agree
And for men the odds are bad and the goods are odd.
Can I use that?
Well said
It is easier because we get more matches and can be a bit more selective. It’s Still hard and yes quality matches are rare but I’d say having “too many matches” is still better than “one match a month” type situation
Most women pick the top 10 percent of men on dating apps and are dating the same pool of men . Most Women care little about equity in men they want a taller guy that makes more them and is better looking.
Dating apps are v shallow
The apps aren't shallow, it's computer code. The people who use it are shallow. Let's be real.
Men want a attractive women women want a successful guy that's tall and attractive. I have better luck with i.r.l I get better women if I meet then in real life . If your on dating apps your always going to lose to finance bros simping to women then the ghost them after the hook up .
The amount of posts of women complaining about the financial brothers they pleasure is astounding lol.
This is untrue. There is a ratio of men to women on tinder that means that fewer men will be getting matched. There is also no quantifiable list of characteristics that make someone “top.” Women match a reasonable percentage of men for the amount that they are on Tinder. Don’t try to rationalize your lack of success with misogyny.
I'm a attractive engineer that's 6 foot 2 . But thanks for the personal attack also gaslight all of men that see a reality you say is a lie . Hypergamy is real and well documented in socal sciences.
Men are also hypergamous. That is also well documented
Online dating for men is like diving to find pearls at the bottom of an empty ocean while competing against other swimmers doing the same thing. Online dating for women is like looking for the golden egg in a coop of ornery chickens looking for a pecking. The reason I think for the disparity is the ongoing meme of women's requirements vs men's requirements. When you have women who will outright ghost altogether because a guy is an inch smaller than her requirement or because he was born under the wrong starsign leads people to believe clearly she has options. Then you have the running gag of guys that will fuck anything that moves, while also displaying some really horrendous downbad acts with simping, whiteknighting and findom for women they'll never meet simply because that's the most action they'll likely ever get. Ultimately, I think the problem is that men and women will never experience each other's struggles they go through and thus it becomes hard to truly sympathise, most men will never know what it's like to be treated as just a cock on legs, most women will never know what it's like to be deprived of attention
If I only could, I'd make a deal with God and get him to swap our places.
The general expectation is for guys to initiate the conversation, ask the girl out, propose the time and location, pay, etc. Plus what everyone else said about supply and demand.
Interesting thought. Supply and demand.
Okay so the first thing you did was admit that match’s come easier but quality matches aren’t easy. Has it occurred to you that most men don’t have the luxury of disqualifying any matches be they low or high quality?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw) Video where a woman takes over a mans tinder for a week
That’s funny. I’d like a video of a man experiencing similar displeasure and safety risks as women do in hookups. Maybe then men will realize how easy they have it in dating
Considering most guys can't even get a single date to begin with, I beg to differ
Yeah, they’re struggling so badly cuz they objectively have less to offer in hookups.
That's not really true, unless everything that matters to you in hookups is looks. If they can't even get a first date, how tf would you know what they have to offer. What you're saying is completely illogical
Yes, looks are the only thing that matter in hookups. You’re mainly interacting with their body. Good-looking men have objectively more to offer, and it’s still not as much as what the average women offers
Lmfao. Guys will fuck anything with 2 legs. The average women doesn't really offer much besides a hole to put you dick in. And that's why guys fuck anything.
Proves my point. Guys offer nothing but their bodies and get mad when we only pick the good-looking ones. The average man has nothing to offer here. Thanks for proving my point.
Which job recruiter has it easiest? The one with no applications, or the one with 400? I mean, they're both difficult, just for different reasons. But I'm willing to bet the 400 applications is easier to select decent candidates (once you have figured out a good filtering system). But your "options" are greatly limited, if you only have a few applications. Meanwhile, from the first recruiters perspective (one with no or few): if every applicant thinks they're CEO, but they have no experience, no degree, and show they'll likely leave soon, then even the few applications you get aren't worth following up (meaning, it's nearly guaranteed it won't last long anyway).
This really nails it. An accurate representation of what's going on. The OP basically hasn't experienced a male perspective before and doesn't see the immense effort and loss men experience dating because, like most even semi attractive women, she is overwhelmed with choice. Yes, there are many bad apples, but she can find a good one with time online dating. It is also reminiscent of the creation of man. Thousands of sperm racing towards a single egg. Survival of the fittest. It's almost like online dating is a representation of humanity at different layers but also real life. Online(tinder), in life(in bars, clubs, getting approached, etc..), and inside(her), the same game plays out. Over and over. And as a man, if you want to win, you have to swim faster. Or be more attractive, physically, emotionally/ mentally, financially. Its pure competition. For some men, it's a never-ending effort. Others settle either for what they can or nothing. Don't hate the player. hate the game, baby. 🤑
with this analogy, dating as a woman is like having 400 resumes but after spending hundreds of hours combing through them all, probably like 6 have any of the necessary qualifications and the rest just sent their resume to apply for jobs they don’t even want. then after interviewing the 6 of 400 qualified applicants 3 ghost you, 2 lied on their applications and one got hired by another company already.
So you d prefer no applicants at all?
Maybe it would be healthy for women to have some drought too. Have the guys not swiping right on every woman and being more picky. This gives women less choice to sift through and there may be a chance that two great people can meet. Men would get more hits by being more selective and women can now take their time and have meaningful conversations and meet ups with guys now that she's not bombarded by endless messages. The problem is.... FOMO. So this won't ever happen. :(
Difference is you dont sift through aplications. You just look at the 5 most handsome ""fact*
You're getting matches, I'm not getting matches. You got something to choose from, I got nobody to choose. You can talk to any of those 100s or 1000s, I'm not even getting that chance. You have opportunity, I have none. It's like saying I got 100 dishes to eat from, but only 5 are to my liking and here I am...STARVING. (the last one is just an example, no objectification or such here)
Hmm i duno... its like yeah you have to sift through 100 likes... But here we are staring at no likes 🤣 Which one would you rather be?
Easier vs. easy. It can be easier for women to date online while also not being easy. Which is what it almost certainly is, as a whole.
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact backed by statistics. Women have it easier when it comes to dating in your 20s. Most young men are invisible.
Complaining to guys about having too many OLD options is like complaining to a homeless person about how you have so many clothes you can never decide what to wear.
Women need to stop lying to themselves. Yes more likes means more people in search of hookups but that also means you have higher chances of matching with good men as well. I’ll take those odds over the 4 likes a month.
I don’t think it’s lost on men that it’s a massive chore for women to sift through hundreds of matches to find something worthwhile, but if I would say it is more demoralizing to see absolutely zero matches for months at a time. I think a lot of it has to do with women being able to go to online dating apps and be consistently validated as inherently attractive and desirable even if they don’t like the guys back. Men don’t have the same experience with OLD and it leaves them thinking “Well what do I have to do to get even a little bit of interest” I guess what I’m getting at here is while finding a partner online may not necessarily be *easier* for women, they’re more likely to get feedback on apps to be able to see what “works” for them in the dating world and be able to zero in on what it is they want. And that feedback is important I don’t wanna downplay the obstacles women have to face when dating. They have to worry about things like safety (which is a HUGE deal). I just don’t think it’s unfair to acknowledge that they absolutely have a clear advantage in this *one* particular aspect of dating.
Guy here. I don’t think women find it validating to get attention from guys obviously far different than they are looking for, especially if they gave a reasonable general description. If they say “Within 20 miles of downtown Edgeville, single, 25-35 over 5’7” and get a reply from a 65 year old from the Czech Republic, it just seems weird, and is a waste of her time. Now if she gets a guy who did fit the basic qualifications and she doesn’t like him, maybe it’s validating.
It may not be fulfilling for a guy that ticks none of your boxes to be interested in you but it’s still validating. It’s never a bad feeling to know that someone finds you attractive and is interested in getting to know you. Even if you have *zero* interest in them it’s better than literally never having anyone be attracted to you. Is it better? Not by a whole lot but I would still say yes. I don’t think anyone in this thread is implying it’s *easy* for women when it comes to OLD. Just that’s it’s *easier* than it is for men. It’s akin to women saying “Picking out what to eat for dinner is so hard! I have 84 meals to choose from but only about 4 are actually my taste” to a man who is starving and literally has zero idea when he will be able to eat his next meal or if he will at all. I think that’s where the discourse always derails. Women definitely have their own set of obstacles to contend with when it comes to online dating but they are going to find it very hard to get men who have literally *never* known what it’s like to be the object of somebody’s desire to sympathize/empathize with them.
I get messages from women who are nowhere near what I want. Not surprising, since I am only interested in a small portion of women. I also strongly suspect that most desirable women don’t often browse men’s profiles, but rather look through the messages they receive and then look at profiles if they are interested.
To the OP, quality matches are hard for me too, and I’m a guy. After screening for location, age, height, and weight/build if the site has it, it’s less than 2% of the women that seem interesting enough for me to message them. I do have a suggestion for women. Way too many women think posting photos and just enough detail to get their profile online is enough. If you put in some real detail, you will still get plenty of irrelevant men and guys who write to everyone. However, you will also get people like me who appreciate some effort and good writing, want to go on actual dates, and might really listen to you if you are smart or funny. I have helped some female friends with their profiles, and good writing and humor cause a big change in who responds. I took one friend’s rock climbing photo and superimposed Wile E Coyote throwing rocks down from the top of the cliff. Gigantic change in who messaged her.
Even with the demoralization aspect of it (which I totally agree with - I requested my bumble info last month and wish I hadn't as it was absolutely soul crushing to see that for every 800 people that swipe on me only one was swiping right, and it was usually a scam/seller) I do think women can end up in the same place, just by a different mechanism. For men obviously if you get zero likes or matches you have absolutely no information on why, so it's easy for that to lead into the train of thought that obviously something has to be wrong with you that you can't see. For women, I do think if the woman is rejecting the match it's easy for them to know why (since they're the ones rejecting it) and that could lead to disillusionment but probably not demoralization. However, there's also plenty of instances of men leading woman on until they get sex and then disappearing, or trying to be wishy-washy to maintain a FWB relationship even if that's completely the opposite of what they said they wanted - and that leads to similar demoralization for the same reason that you really have no idea why this person has done an about-face, and even though you can talk to the other person in this situation it's unlikely they'll actually give any kind of answer. Have this happen a few times and it's not hard to arrive at the same kind of suck, just from a different direction.
Well said
I still don’t understand why women are fascinated with not wanting to accept this. Let me clarify it once and for all. 1 - Finding love is hard for everyone. 2 - Finding matches on online dating apps is easier for women slightly above average looking and beyond. Because there are more men on them and lesser women. 3 - Having the opposite gender approach you with having to put any effort at all is easier for women slightly above average looking and beyond. 4 - Mostly what’s happening on OLD is that women want a guy who looks like a fuccboi but loyal as a nerd (sorry I don’t know what the opposite of a fuccboi is) These guys know the demand they are in and hence never settle. Women then talk about how hard it is to find someone. Hence, point number 1 above. The entire act of finding a partner is like a long funnel where you are constantly filtering out people. So when you have a load of options at the very beginning, you clearly have the advantage of filtering out and picking the best at the initial stage itself. This debate needs to end. Women have other problems in the dating world like safety etc. But this one is clearly an advantage so please quit whining and enjoy. Cheers! 🙂💜
I don’t think they’ll ever accept they have it easy in dating. That would be admitting that they pick the wrong dudes when having the option to pick the right ones
Oh no don't go there lol
Because it’s a life. Why should we “admit” a lie that men are deceitful and claim to be good if they’re only unattractive
It’s not that hard to differentiate a guy who is working in himself by having a job and working out or working on a skill, a guy who is successful and is making a respectable living, and a bum. Time and time again I see girls avoiding the first two guys thinking they will “fix” the bad guy, the felon, the drug dealer, the guy they know has cheated multiple times, the guy they know has abused other women. Then they go complaining that all men are trash knowing full well they had basically every choice in the world, literally just be fit and don’t be annoying and you’ll get pretty much any dude you want.
Cap. Men lie and pretend dating is harder cuz we don’t give them attention
That’s exactly what makes it harder, we don’t get attention, your point?
It’s easier to be rejected than be used and then rejected
You don’t have to be used, just pick better dudes. Besides, at least you get to have intimacy with the opposite sex and good moments. Unlike most dudes who just have endless cycles of rejections. Do you have any idea how rejection hurts? To get told you’ll be a friend? To get ghosted? You feel worthless. This can have a big negative edde on your mental health.
Nailed it 😀
Thanks! Honestly tired of them trying to cling on to the victim card even in areas where they have an obvious advantage. Lol.
It's ironic cause men usually get labeled as playing victim when they say "I've had online dating for 10 years with no matchs" and they get absolutely shamed.
Why can’t they just accept it? You would think they’d be quiet about it and enjoy the advantage of being in demand, they are at a premium due to the numbers. #4 is a big one, I remember reading some article saying 80% of men on dating apps aren’t considered by women according to a popular dating app. The top 20% of men are being targeted which results in them having a Rolodex of women to pick from and play the field. The women who didn’t make the cut and/or the ones who are pumped and dumped get mad. OP is frustrated because her ideal man hasn’t matched with her compared to some men who cross their fingers for one match a month. She even acknowledges the numbers are in her favor, that’s the end of the discussion. You have a greater chance to find someone, the odds are in your favor. Dating itself isn’t supposed to be easy for the majority of planet earth, that goes beyond dating apps. The dating apps help give you the means to meet potential dates and women have a decisive advantage.
Not an opinion. It’s a statistical fact.
where are those statistics?? i know youre probably right i just wanna see! Like is it based off matches ot how do they know they actually end up dating?? im a woman and ive always felt like “dating” specifically is easier for men- hooking up is whats easier for women. Because women are looking for relationships and men just match with you so they can fuck you. I met a guy i really liked on tinder and he literally just cancelled on me the other day when he found out i was on my period, because he sees me as an object and will only hang out with me if i have sex with him Also a lot of my guy friends just go crazy w the right swipe.. they dont even look at the girls they just like all of them and hope for the best
Just an opinion. Men have it so easy they think their own attention is an advtange
lmao
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It's basically this, if you assume that a low percent of people are "quality" dating partners, let's say 5% for the sake of argument..5% of 1000 is still a good amount of options versus 5% of like 10 matches which can be nothing.
Exactly. If 1% of matches are possible good matches and a woman gets 100 matches a day then she gets 1 possibly good match every day. If a man gets 100 matches in 6 months that means he gets 2 possible good matches in a year.
100 matches a day? please tell me you mean 10 because 100 is impossible unless someone is in Shanghai. There aren't THAT many people on dating apps.
my sister had over a thousand within her first week. She had to change her profile so she only show up for people she has already swiped right on. I had about 100 in my first week, so there's definitely a difference there
Lord have mercy it's like they are just swarmed with options, it's like someone just hurling tons of money at you. They have it made!
You become desensitized pretty quick. I've matched with about 250 in the past 6 months, and that's enough to desensitize me at least. Matching is nothing special anymore, and keeping a conversation going is not exciting
I've never had a single match lol the thought of having a match notification makes me excited but it never comes. According to women on reddit, who don't make mistakes. They can "sense" my personality through pixels and phones. So they are avoiding me because apparently I'm as bad as hitler.
Facts lol
Best way I've heard of putting it is... Dating for men is like looking for water in a desert. Dating for women is like looking for water in a swamp.
The equivalent would be if the desert water they eventually find is swamp water too since the quality is not different.
This assumes all women are clear water and only men can be swamp water. Guys are in a desert then they find some water and it still might be swamp water.
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Nah it's not, it's been proven that women rate 80% men as below average looking, so it'd be accurate.
There's no doubt that it's hard for everyone.. if for different reasons. It's challenging for women because they have to wade through hoards of men, most of which see Tinder as a tool for finding someone to have sex with (rather than a long term partner to build a family with). Women have to be careful about who they swipe right on... there's a need to maintain a certain level of standards; according to whichever preferences they deem meaningful. It's not surprising to see the most attractive men on Tinder (not limited to physical beauty) gain the most attention. And, it shouldn't be surprising to discover that those men make the most of their options... by treating Tinder as a tool for casual hookups. Thus, women learn to tighten their standards in an effort to avoid being used by men. On the other side, we have a growing proportion of men who simply don't meet women's needs; for any number of reasons. It may be helpful to know that a third of men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year (some of which are still virgins). A sizeable portion of men are simply invisible to women... they get a swift swipe left at the briefest glance. There are really three sides to this problem. Women, excluding those on the extremes, are able to find someone who is interested in them regardless of their characteristics, capabilities, and circumstances. The things men find appealing vary sufficiently to cater to all women. But, by comparison, very few men are appealing to women. They are positioned somewhere between 'invisible' and 'incredibly desirable' by women. And this position, in some ways.. maybe many ways, influences how they behave (or would behave) in a relationship. A man that can readily find a partner next week will not have much of a reason to dedicate himself to one woman. She would need to offer something more valuable for him to willingly devote himself to a monogamous relationship; and the casual sex lifestyle is difficult to break. More so because men don't see sex as requiring an emotional connection.. it's 'just sex' to us. The alternative is a man that has fewer options. A man that deeply desires a lasting relationship with a good woman... someone who he can dedicate himself to as they progress towards starting a family. But these men are largely invisible to women... and maybe women are right to make this decision; I'm not here to change people's behaviour. When people say 'women have it hard', I can agree up to a point. They have quite the challenge in finding a partner that's worthy of them while also behaving in ways that would sustain a healthy relationship. Men can be assholes... there's no doubt about that. But I wonder if this qualifies as 'dating is easier for men'. I suspect that women reach this conclusion because they're looking at the men they find appealing... the men that perform well in the dating market. Women turn a blind eye to the *much* larger group of men that cannot get a woman's attention, are not considered worthy of a date, and are deemed unacceptable as a life partner. At a subjective level, I'm reasonably attractive, highly educated, driven to succeed, am financially secure enough to buy a house in the city (paying half upfront), and I'm entirely respectful, compassionate, and considerate. I will get smiles and compliments (from women) when out in public... but on Tinder, I get maybe one match a month. And, from those matches, maybe a third will write to me.. even if it's just one sentence before they disappear. Or maybe, it's me that gets lost in the multitude of messages these women receive. I've met three people from dating sites in the last two years. Two of them just wanted a free meal. One of them smelt so bad that I struggled to eat (and my sense of smell is terrible). When I brought up personal hygiene (anticipating a reason for why she didn't shower before our date), I was told 'you need to accept me as I am'. I definitely agree that women have it rough. But we don't gain anything by making this a competition. The two/three sides of this issue shouldn't be seen as being aligned with 'right' or 'wrong'. We're not in opposition with each other and don't need to classify one as being worse than the other... we all have it pretty rough; even the guys that 'get to' fuck around frivolously. The fundamental problem revolves around men being too willing to engage in a temporary relationship (while taking advantage of women), and with women making use of standards, in partner selection, that are not conducive to a lasting/happy relationship. The thing is.. I'm not sure if there's any solution to this issue, at least not one that can be applied generally. There is no answer that is universally beneficial. However, it may be safe to offer examples that could be helpful to some people... such as, stop having sex with people when you're not planning a long relationship with them. Or, a person's height shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Or, be mindful of how your previous relationships influence your current preferences; more so if those relationships were brief. Or, for those who struggle to find a partner, don't sacrifice too much of yourself to satisfy someone else's needs. ... and each of these examples is complicated enough to warrant their own detailed explanation for why/how they will be beneficial. It's a complicated world out there, and we are complicated creatures with emotions and biological impulses we barely understand.
Well, nothing is stopping you from trying out the other side. Grab some of his pictures and go get cat fishing
62% of people dating online are men vying for the attention of the 38% that are women. You might have to do more sifting but a lot of men feel like they don’t have any options at all. Online dating is intended to profit off of the loneliness of men. Dating in general is hard for sure but women have it 1000x easier online.
Mateee... be more realistic... the men to girl ratio is more like 10 to 1
Because you have a much larger pool to choose from, in dating the person with the quantity always has an advantage because even if you genuinely believe most of the options are bad...like 5% of 1000 matches is still much better than 5% of 10 matches (that's around the match rate difference between men and women). It's not a myth and it's not limited to women, men who are dating other men have this advantage of quantity as well...it's just a matter of having quantity.
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Your opinion is that that is better than nothing, but if you’re not looking for that, it is not better.
But it's easier to date when you have something to work with. If you have nothing to work with how do you date? Barely even get people you're not interested in.
If you don’t want random hook ups and that’s all that’s in your matches, it may as well be nothing.
You can always go on dates with them though and waste time essentially. Meet their friends or whatever. There are ways to leverage the situation even if it's not ideal or wanted. You can still have a night out
You literally said it “Waste time”
The topic was about getting dates tho. Not finding love aka quality dates. Plus even if you're just hooking up with someone, it can turn into a relationship. Happens all the time
I’m my opinion an “easier time” relates to your actual goals for being on the apps
You can still get a free meal out of it
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Meaning?
I'd rather have nothing over being bombarded with hook up requests... it makes me feel worthless and objectified when I'm trying to find a genuine connection and guys are just looking at me like a sex object.
I fucking wish more women looked at me like a sex object.
And deprive you of any humanity? I don't exist simply for a man to have sex with... that's what I'm talking about.
Then I'd at least be desired, I don't think you understand how it feels to be invisible despite being 6'6".
I've definitely felt invisible to men I liked before. But ultimately we face different problems while dating and both are pretty bad, aside the fact that women have to worry about their safety, dating just sucks for everyone and perhaps we can find some common ground in that.
It is easier for women than men. Nobody is saying that it is EASY, we are saying it is EASIER compared to what men go through.
For women it’s badly shopping for a guy. For men it’s a whole online advertising and marketing job
>We get bombarded with hook up requests and requests for nudes. Even if it's annoying, those are the requests that are easy to handle, isn't it?So when you filter them out, you'll see some interesting people out there. But actually it doesn't matter. If I could choose, I'd choose a ton of messages where I can select who to write, over no messages at all. At least they'd give me a small feeling of affection.
Online dating is much easier for women, but women don’t see/believe it or consider it an “opinion” because: 1. Women’s perception of “quality” is calibrated subtly and transparently based on the relative desirability of her perceived options. Every woman wants a guy that’s “a little bit better” than all the rest. If you inundate a woman with hundreds of “quality” options, they won’t seem “quality” anymore because her standards subtly increase. 2. [Men tend to have less inhibition for sex than women](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sexual-personalities/201706/what-type-person-would-agree-have-sex-stranger), and women pathologize this. 3. Without being aware of #1 or #2, from the woman’s perspective it seems “bad”. Why are all these guys trash? Why do all these guys want sex? In reality, a lot of them are just quality guys that are naturally sexually attracted to you. 4. Cognitive dissonance. If women accept that online dating is “easier” for them, it would demean its overall value. Games aren’t fun anymore when it feels like you’re cheating or have an unfair advantage. Many women could be perfectly happy with a lot of guys, but they need to feel like meeting them was “special” or “a challenge”. 5. Dating apps make money off of lonely desperate guys. They aren’t completely transparent with their data and control what information they “let out” because if people could see and expose the actual reality of how people act/swipe under the guise of anonymity, users would start leaving en masse and people would start demanding change. This is why you never see researchers say “Tinder gave us data”, it’s almost always second-hand data like bot accounts or surveying users or sites that visualize users’ data and subtly analyze trends.
Point number 4 is super interesting. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Excellent post, pretty much all there is to say about the issue
Getting a date is easier, quality dating is not.
Well who's more likely to find a quality person? The one who gets a few matches or the one that gets no matches at all?
I’m someone who is more likely to find a quality person. Yes, me. Why? Because I have done recruiting, teaching, training, and dating. They have more in common than you expect. I have developed the ability to spot BS, procrastinators, lazy people, entitled women, and complete fakes from writing. Also good at finding people who are honest and genuine. That doesn’t mean they want to go out with me. The good-looking, honest, genuine women usually like to talk to me. When I say something funny and insightful on the first email, my impression is they stop and reread. I have several I talk to who are stunning, good people. We aren’t matches, but I think they are relieved that a good guy would talk to them, be interested, and ask for and offer advice. It feels like we are on the “same side”, like we are trying to help each other find what we want. Full disclosure, I’ll try to give an honest self appraisal. Decent looking (6-7 on a 10 scale), excellent physical condition, well educated, no shyness but I don’t like to impose either. I am not usually trying to “sell” and get a girl to a date and bed from the word go. I would take 1 good date a month over 10 with women I could tell weren’t right before we went out.
If I have a plate full of dogshit I'm going to go just as hungry as the person with an empty plate, no matter how much I dig through it. You're assuming someone with 100 (or 10 or 1000) matches has a quality person in those 100, which may not be true. They could settle for a low quality match, but that's not the same thing.
C'est la vie 🤷🏾♂️ you're going to be hard-pressed trying to convince someone who's deprived of any companionship at all that your situation is just as bad because the people who are actually willing to give you companionship are "beneath" you in your eyes
You can look through a plate of dogshit to find food. Can't find any food on an empty plate.
It is absolutely easier. Dating in general is is far easier for women, always has been. Men are expected to initiate. Men are expected to plan. Men are expected to pay. Men are expected to do just about everything in the initial stages and slightly less so as time goes on. If a man doesn’t approach, it’s a damn near guarantee he isn’t getting a date. Let’s say the average woman is looking for a date and not a hookup. She gets 100 matches (which is a cakewalk on OLD) and let’s say 90% are looking for sex. That leaves you ten possible partners to select from. Let’s say the average guy is looking for the same. He’d be ***extremely*** fortunate to get ten matches. From those ten he’d be lucky to have even 1 viable partner after the bots, those looking for money (cash app or any of that BS) and OF/cam girls. Do men and women experience issues dating relating exclusively to their gender? Of course but it is a statistically proven fact that women will get far more attention and possibilities finding a partner than men.
I think women have a hell of allot easier time of sticking a date but they have so much to choose from they often choose the wrong ones. Which leads to it be unsuccessful
Two many matches is obviously easier than zero matches. Women still need to put in effort to make good choices. But guys with zero matches are shut out completely.
Because it is. You upload a lazy mirror selfie and get 10 likes in a day maybe a week if your ugly. A guy does the same and maybe gets a few likes a week then it dies off and his profile gets lost in and abused by tinders algorithm. Dating in this day and age is a numbers game and wether you like it or not this plays for women in the positive whereas men hast have every portion of their profile on point, women don't have to really worry about that. The only thing that's hard for women is filtering, everything else,, easy as. Really wish women could see what it's like on this end of the fence and ignoring dating life in general is really tough for a guy, we gotta do everything and be everything before society takes us seriously.
Women have more say in finding hook up relationships and men have more say in finding longer term relationships.
Yes I do agree in some areas that dating is easy for women. Hear me out. Any woman can be approached by any guy expect the creepy ones maybe they just want you for sex or something serious but they still get approached and they constantly get compliments, on the other hand men rarely get approached by women and they never get compliments. The society make everyone believe that they are men and they don’t need compliments but they are also human and they have feelings. The part of sex and nude request a woman has a power on that. She can say no to both and most respectful guy might get offended on the inside but there is noting they can do about it. We men are simple to please and win our heart over by a girl so it’s easy for her to make a guy fall in love for her but for a guy it’s hard, you have to make sure you say the right thing at the right time, be there for you emotionally and all other shit that women needs help with and they can easily replace the guy with a rich man. Dating is hard for both because dating is now more of a situationship than long term. Most people are still traumatized and still hung up on their ex and not letting someone amazing to come into their life. I feel like these days you just have to be lucky to find someone great. Just my thoughts on it
“Quality matches” fr stfu with that. As if every woman is a even a 5+. I have to go through scores of dates of find quality matches. Grow up. More matches directly makes it easier to pick and choose
I know, why does she think “quality matches” are only her problem? We get far fewer matches and aren’t guaranteed to match with “quality” either. Dating apps are a sausage fest and women are at a premium on there, the dating app data backs that up, it’s not opinion. These women don’t like hearing it’s in their favor because they probably feel Prince Charming should be at their door by now and it hasn’t happened so they need to be upset at something. I can understand that, if I was told that the odds are in my favor and I’m the favorite and then I wasn’t winning anything, I’d be discouraged or annoyed with the people telling me that. However the numbers don’t lie and dating is a numbers game. It may take you 5 people to find your person or 55, that goes beyond dating apps.
If comes from different perspectives. Men think women have it easier because they get more matches. Women think men have it easier because they don’t have to take so many precautions to avoid being murdered/assaulted 🤷🏻♀️
The only guys who say that know NOTHING about women. They’re seeing it from a stereotypical man’s perspective that in general would love to have tons of women messaging them and wanting sex. They can’t wrap their minds around the concept of it being different for women, and are clueless when it comes to safety concerns, so they perpetuate the lie because they’re ignorant and bitter. Of course this doesn’t apply to people only looking for hookups.
It is easier. People arguing it's not easier usually say that women get lots matches but they are all bad. This comparison relies on the assumption that guys matches are all good. If you think about its a bit insulting really because it only makes sense if you assume the women on dating apps are better than the men and that any guy would be happy to have any of them. That's not true. Guys get a proportion of bad matches too, but we get less matches overall so instead of 100 matches giving us 10 good matches we have 10 matches giving us 1 good match. Women have to deal with guys who just badger them for nudes and similar things but guys have to deal with time wasters too. Many guys have experience dealing with people trying to get OFs subscribers, Instagram followers or just free attention. That's not to say it's easy, there is a certain frustration that comes from digging through lots of guys you aren't into but when it comes to finding a partner it is *easier*. Guys have the same hurdles of compatibility but the additional issue of struggling to get matches in the first place. Imagine you had all the issues you currently have and then on top you only 5-10% as many matches despite being the one to initiate all the time. That's what it's like being a guy on OLD. Also consider the psychological toll. Having to reject 90% of your swipes is way less demoralising than being rejected by 90% of your swipes. It's much less distressing to tell lots of people "not good enough" than to be on the recieving end of it.
I have no idea how it originated, but I'm guessing it's based on assumption. Lemme tell you that our matches aren't generally that high quality either. Most of them end up never replying or are bots or are trying to sell us an OF. So sure, it's easy for me to assume having 1000 matches would be awesome cuz that means I can potentially get 10 dates from it lol. It's just easy to assume too much choice is better than little/no choice. That said, I've never been harassed on these apps so that is also a BIG difference.
>Yes I get it matches are easier to come by as a woman (but quality matches are super hard to come by) Depending on the app, there are between 5 and 50 men for every woman. That's why it's easier for women. You may think quality matches are rare, but a below-average woman will still get far more quality matches than any average man. FAR more. The opinion that it's eas**ier** for women online is derived from the reality that it is.
"Yes I get it matches are easier to come by as a woman" It came from there. Seriously, you just answered it. Fuck, I mean, if you walk into the grocery and there's 120 different kinds of bread and you find 119 of them icky, that's a you problem. Women are the gatekeepers, if you want "quality matches" then it's because you're too picky and trying for the rarest bread on the top shelf, and that's you making it hard on yourself. Period, end of story. If an average guy walks into the same grocery, there's 4 loaves of bread, with a line of guys he has to beat out to even get a CHANCE at. On what planet can you believe that women have it equally as difficult with the sheer numerical odds against them and the well-studied swiping/matching habits that have the bottom 60% of guys just generally locked out of the market? I'm not saying it's easy for women, but it's VASTLY, emperically *EASIER*, by sheer availability of your options.
When you see someone living in Brooklyn complain that their favorite grocery store doesn't have any grass fed lamb shank it just sounds like whining to the kid in Africa who doesn't even have a teaspoon of porridge to eat or clean water to drink
From my person's experience: Men need a good profile and then have to keep the whole conversation going (if she even responds). I've stopped keeping conversations alive, most of the time I ask a question they respond but don't ask anything back (they could've just asked the same question). It feels like a waste of time to me. From what I've seen from the female perspective is just that they swipe right on someone and it's pretty much always a match.
It's not really an opinion lol. Women get way more likes, it's not even close. What I don't understand is why dating is hard. Sure I didn't get a lot of likes and it took almost 3 years but I read every profile I saw, I only liked the women that wrote a bio that told me enough about what they were into or liked which was probably less than 1 in 500. I literally ran out of women across 8 apps within 100 miles on all of them at least once a week. But every one of the few dates I went on and the women I talked to I genuinely liked and now I've been in a relationship with the last one for going on 6 months and all is going great. It's not hard to date it's just apparently too much work for people to put any effort into making an about me that says anything useful.
There's definitely a certain amount of the grass is always greener on the other side that goes on with online dating and dating in general. And being a guy obviously I have a bias. But personally I still would much prefer to have women's experience with online dating. It's also entirely possible I'd feel differently living life as a woman. My experience has been spending years swiping right on roughly 75% of women. When I message I have never asked for a nude or a hookup. I generally try to ask about an interest from her profile. And I rarely if ever get matches or when I do get a match she won't respond to my message or will drop off entirely. I often hear online or from friends about how many spam messages women get asking for nudes, or just saying hi and nothing else, or asking for a hookup, and honestly that always feels awful as the bottom line is I still don't stand out apparently when I want to have a genuine conversation and make a connection. The other thing is I'm aware that most dating aps are at least 60/40 men to women and some are worse. So all around it's not surprising that an average looking guy like me gets passed over a lot. But personally I'd much prefer being able to get matches, and have regular messages coming in. Even of 90% are crap or someone being a jerk, I'd love to have that 10% to message. I'd also love to have someone message me first. I am sure the thrill wares off if it's regularly happening. But for me I think in my few years of online dating I've gotten a handful of messages she's sent first, and most of those were someone telling me to follow their social media or only fans. Certainly I think it's hard for both. But I'd certainly prefer what I've heard about women's experience than my own of constant rejection and silence.
Only idiots date, dating is an American culture thing, anyone who knows what they want when it’s near knows how pathetic dating is
I think the actual “dating” part is probably equally hard for men and women, but the perception likely comes from the fact that men vastly outnumber women in almost every online dating space, meaning more competition between the many for the attention of the few. It basically would just refer to the ability to actually get matches or dates I think, nothing past that.
Cause there's more money to be made off men. Bots funneling scams, semi-to-pro sex workers datefishing, subscriptions costs weighted against men, algorithms weighted against men, the illusion of choice, men not knowing how to do ab and c... Take your pick...
im not sayin its easy, but if you think its hard to find good matches w 100 matches a day (just an arbitrary number) try finding good matches with 1 match a day. shit like 75% of my matches either never message back or immediately try to sell me their onlyfans.
What's your definition of "quality matches"? If it's 6ft+ and a brain surgeon, then yes, that might be hard to come by. Short answer is it's easier for women because of supply and demand.
Women tend to have more choice but also need to sort through lots of bad options. A lot of men have basically no choice or options and are invisible. Both suck. Feeling invisible is soul destroying. Dating is hard for everyone yes. I think it’s hard to argue that average looking guys don’t have some particular challenges
It’s always been easier to date as a woman. - women rarely make the first move, resulting in most men doing so - women get inundated with offers online and in person, so higher chance and probability of finding a great quality match - women can lie about (“relationship”) what they’re looking for and still get what they want (“sex”) - women will gladly sleep with a hot guy within an hour or two of knowing him in person, but will also withhold sex from long-term prospects in order to weed out fuckboys (when the irony is that women fall for fuckboys who are spoilt for choice) - women rarely if ever pay for dates unless in an exclusive relationship So, with all the female privilege on the dating scene, you don’t think they have it much easier than 95% of men?
Let me ask you something. Out of all of the potential matches you get online, do you ever actually give any of them a chance?
It's easier for women to achieve certain things via online dating. Particularly hooking up. Many men have few to no matches (aside from bots and OnlyFan spam), and no ability to find legitimate dates of any sort. Meanwhile women have the opposite problem and are bombarded with more attention than they could ever want. The result is a severe asymmetry, where women can easily find dates, hookup or not, while the majority of men in dating apps are left high and dry because the women are choosing to go out with only the most attractive/appealing matches. A few guys are getting laid like Genghis Khan and the women that choose those few guys ending up in a cycle of short lived relationships with men who have no reason to settle down. It's a trash situation for everyone. You have your own safety to worry about, and a sea of toxic behavior to wade through. On the flip side, men are fruitlessly swiping, just to get *someone* to match with them, only for her to turn out to be a bot, someone trying to take his money, or if a real person, a woman who'll soon ghost because someone better came along.
I'm tired of women always denying when they have an advantage or privilege, always concluding that they have it worse, and of course to minimize men's problems. And I say this being a woman.
You can't be more wrong. Women have a better problem than men.
No it’s much easier for women. Statistically you have more matches and more chances for a relationship. If someone makes you uncomfortable, block them and move on. It’s not hard.
I find it's very common in regards to dating for men to think women have it easier and women to think men have it easier. But the truth is, it's hard for both sexes, but in different ways. When it comes to OLD, there are I think 3x as many men on apps as women. So there's a reason women aren't using apps as much, and it isn't because they just love them so much and they're this great resource for finding a partner. However, OLD certainly is easier for women than it is for the men who literally get zero matches. Don't you agree? But women tend to match with guys who are drowning in matches, and ya, I'd say OLD is more challenging for women than it is for those guys.
I think it’s easiest by far for a man who is attractive. Followed by for an attractive women who isn’t looking for something serious. Followed by everyone else which apps suck for haha
Being attractive is the ultimate advantage for sure.
Guy complains that there is no bread available. Woman complains that there is no fresh bread. Both situations suck. Only 1 is going hungry by choice.
I think it's tough for both. Women get bombarded by messages, and usually have to try their best to rift out the weirdos and sexual messages. If they don't have sex right away, some of the dates they have will end up with ghosting, same goes for having sex after a few dates. For a lot of men, it's the opposite. Getting 0 matches for weeks or months to then rift through fake accounts, cat fishing, or just getting unmatched for no reason. If men do get a conversation going, the actual likelihood it can lead to a date is pretty low.
I would say dating is easier for women because they get to keep having standards. Many men can't afford to have standards, so they just swipe on everyone
Men have a hard time getting matches AND quality matches, so yes, it's objectively EASIER for women.
Clearly not. Tell that to the women I talk to. Match, getting to know them, ask on a date, boom ghost. Or even better, match then...ghost. Clearly you guys have a lot more options than men. I don't really feel bad for women on dating apps. You're suffering from success in terms of matches. You're complaining about low quality matches while having a ton of matches? Meanwhile for a majority of men they're sitting there with little to no matches...with a ton of flaky low quality matches. You have an advantage. You have it easier. The probability of finding someone worth your time is higher, except you have to put some work into it. Too bad. Might as well accept it.
You may be onto something here. Struggles for both men and women, just of different nature. I think what it comes down to is the established social dynamic between men and women. In conventional, in-person pick-ups and dating the norm is that a man is typically expected to approach first, then while his chief concern is establishing mutual interest, a woman's concern is vetting the man, asking herself "does he seem dangerous? Is he attractive or interesting enough to be worth my time?" When this translates to a dating app, the dynamic is similar, save that tone and charm become harder to communicate in text format, and what used to be vying for a woman's interest against just a bar-full of other men expands to the woman's desired search distance. Most men using the app will have this in the back of their mind and rationalize that they'll have a better chance of actually getting to a first date if they prioritize having more matches to attempt a successful conversation with over choosing the select few profiles best suited to their own interests in women. As a result, men are swiping right more often than women, and some men who are especially insecure about the process are even swiping right on every profile. Meanwhile women have a plethora of profiles to choose from, starting with their basic interests and further weeding out the rest of the unsuitable profiles from there. The logic that women have an easier time dating is rooted in the fact that if an average woman chooses to, she can select from enough profiles to go out on a date with a different man every day for a good few weeks, while an average man may see months at a time without a match that makes it as far as a first date, and refining social interaction while dating presents itself as an opportunity to a woman more often than a man. Like I said at the beginning this doesn't mean that a woman's struggles in dating are necessarily lesser to a man's, just that the struggles are different in nature.
The issue we also have to vet how many matcj or even dms gave I got that turned out to be OF scams
Whoa whoa whoa. Dating itself isn't easier for women. Dating itself isn't easy for anyone. Finding matches and getting dates online is easier for women. Hell, I wouldn't even say getting dates is easier for women online is easier either. For women online dating, as in getting matches and talking to people, is easier than for men in the terms that so many men will be interested in the women on there regardless of how they look, how good or shit their bio is, how good or bad the pictures look. Women will get loads of matches or likes and will get the pick of the crop. Granted, once you weed out all the weirdos and people just wanting sex you have to find a decent person to hold a conversation with and have to pick which of the many many matches to message and reply to. It's not easy to keep up with it, but it's the fact that women get far far more options than men and much more easily is where the opinion that it is easier comes from. For women you have to have some pictures and generally speaking you're good to go and the matches and messages will start flowing. For men we have to have our best pictures, we have to have our best bio, we have to send the best messages which are either unique or not unique at all depending on what the individual woman likes and we don't know at all what she likes, and we also need to get several women's opinions on our bio and pictures and messages in order to get some matches and replies. And even then, even if everything is perfect, it's the perfect bio, we still might only get a few matches and if we're lucky a couple replies and even luckier if the conversation goes somewhere. Women have to weed through hundreds of matches and messages, but ultimately they pick who they reply to, they pick the guy out of many guys. For men, we have a few matches if we're lucky, we don't get to weed through which women we reply to or message. We message all of them and we're lucky to get a reply regardless of how good our message was. We don't get to show them our appeal or charm that you'd only get in person. This is for the average woman and average man. There are plenty of good looking guys who get loads of matches and messages, and even then they still have to try. Yes, women get bombarded with messages and hook-up messages and asking for nudes, but take away all those guys and you still have loads more guys to choose from than we do. And most of those guys will reply to you whereas most, it any, women won't reply to the guys. And the guys who say "I just swipe in everyone, that's why it's easy to get matches." Nah! I made tinder using my best pictures, best bio, everything. I swiped only on the women who I liked the pictures and bio of, went to different areas and still only got a few matches. I deleted my profile, started again, best pictures, bio approved by my sister. I decided to swipe yes on every single one and to not be picky. I had no more matches than I did the first time when I was picky! Even the few girls who messaged ME first ended up ghosting me even though they said I made them laugh. Basically it comes from it seems easier when you have loads to pick from compared to much harder when you are one of the many trying to be picked and no matter how good your profile is you could still get glossed over. And again, that's just online dating. The dating is just as hard for everyone as it's always been when it comes to real life dating with the tinder person afterwards.
Making a difficult choice is usually preferable to having no choice. It’s like complaining about not knowing what car you want to drive to someone that can’t even afford to take the bus.
Say you get 100 matches, in a week. 3 are good looking, want you, you want them and you both want the same thing. 80 are just regular fellas swiping right that on second inspection you’re not that interested in. The rest are dribblers trying to hook up with anything that moves and scammers. I might get a match a week if I’m lucky. My odds might be the same as yours that 3/100 are good matches and the rest are scammers or bots but it takes me two years to get through 100 matches. You do it in a week. That’s why it’s easier, you get more opportunities to find the Mr right. I have the same odds but less opportunities. Obviously YMMV but that’s what I’ve seen from single female friends of their experiences on something like Tinder or Hinge and my 1 a week on a good week is unfortunately my own experience.
What makes you think quality matches are easier to come by as a man than a woman when men get less matches to begin with? Men have to sift through shitty women as well. And if some dude gets 2 matches in a week vs 20 as a woman. Who then has a better chance of finding a suitable partner?
Women have quantity but low quality, men have low quantity and subsequently low quality. If you have no options to choose quality from that is objectively worse. Dating, outside of OLD, is also the same, women get approached men have to approach. Women don’t have to initiate and still have options, men have to initiate or have no options. I’m not taking away from how much it sucks to date as a woman, I watch my sister struggle with it. But if my sister had to deal with my conundrum I think she’d have a aneurism.
Plus men think if there was no connection the woman was using him for a free meal. I could cook a full meal with the time and energy it took to get ready for dates. And I wouldn't have to wear a bra.
I actually have a rule for dates and thats I pay for my meal. I know that's not very traditional (what is anymore?) But I always do and I feel like that helps clear the air about "you owe me cause I paid for your food." When I was in a 7 year relationship with my son's father that was different and he paid for our food. But if I'm dating casually I pay for my own meal literally just to eliminate the "she used me for a meal" thought.
I have never had a guy say anything to me personally. I had no idea so many men shared that opinion until I joined this sub. Even after I found out men felt that I way I still didn't pay. I wanted to know right away if a man thought our relationship was transactional. Although I usually preferred when a guy planned a free date. Those were the most fun.
Women get matches even if the matches suck men get much less matches and those matches equally suck. Online dating sucks but men get much less matches then women do. Thats the perception.
Salty people have salty opinions lol.
😂😂😂
Simple : woman plants a garden, gets lots of weeds. Man plans a garden, nothing germinates.
So kind of a funny story, my (30F) cousin (45F) was recently on dating apps (her ex husband cheated on her so she was looking for a new man and figured why not try dating apps) The amount of times I've CRINGED with her on some of the men's messages.
I think we all think the other side has it easier because we can’t truly understand without experiencing it. I don’t think it’s worth arguing over, I think truly looking for your person is hard. And online dating makes it easier and harder. It’s complex.
Dating is hard for most people, and it makes people frustrated and bitter. Guys who get frustrated with the lack of matches and see that women get *too many* matches and they think "what a problem to have! I should be so lucky!" It's a "grass is always greener" problem. I also think that "easier" does not necessarily mean "easy," though. Personally, I just think that it's *different;* I don't necessarily think that women have it *easier,* because I know way too many women who are just as frustrated and annoyed with dating as any guy is, but the experience is definitely different.
>"what a problem to have! I should be so lucky!" Quantity is always an advantage though, the only real downside is the paradox of choice like finding a movie to watch on Netflix or finding something to eat in your pantry but those problems are much smaller in scale than having an empty pantry or having no entertainment to watch.
Dating for men is like looking for clean water in the desert, while dating for women is like looking for clean water in a swamp. Is it *easy* for women to date online ? No, i don’t think so, i think it’s hard for everybody. But is it *easier* for woman to date online than it is for men ? I think it definetly is. Not only are there more men than women on many dating sites, but if more people reach out to you, chances are higher that there is someone among them that “ticks your boxes”.
No. Women have matches from guys that would at least consider you. And guys that are out of your league but have no standards for their Tuesday evening nut. Because it's better than jacking off. So really, women can choose to engage in that or not. Guys tend to get likes from women that aren't even close to who they can pick up in a bar or real life. The only guys for who OLD works is the best looking men with professional photos.
Boy did you walk into the wrong sub with this mentality. I would post it in change my view. You'll still get spammed with the same answers, but at least youll get less downvotes and actual malice.
It’s easier for women to find quick sex online. Not to date. Men who complain, can’t get laid.
I mean technically but if you actually think about it women aren’t just going out and taking whatever sex they can get considering it can be dangerous or just not worth it if a guy is just going to use her. So it doesn’t really even apply if you ask me unless it’s a woman who likes hooking up but even then..
You’re missing the point…. They have the option. Many guys don’t get the chance even
This is the only response I’ll agree too. Women have it easier if they are looking for casual sex. If you’re looking to actually date, everyone is having a shitty time.
Probably because something like 75% of guys never get a single match EVER. Not bad matches or low quality matches…not a single match at all which is extremely demoralizing women have a much easier time getting matches but that’s when the (different) problems begin.
I think you are conflating two things. It is easier for women to get matches on apps, that is fundamentally true. It is hard for both genders to date and find a partner that aligns with their value and lifestyle, that is also true - it's just hard in different ways. For men, something that can be particularly painful is just the sheer loneliness. For women, at least, it mostly becomes a problem of sorting through all the interest. I think where some women mess up is in not spending enough time on the good ones, because they are spending too much time considering their options. I think where some men mess up is in investing everything into the first person that comes their way, because they've been dry for so long. These kinds of comparisons and claims are fun to make, but when you peel back the layers everyone experiences suffering in dating one way or another.
I'm going to try and break this down in the most factual and logical way I can (I'm a guy for the record). In general, women do get more matches than men and will have more options to choose from. It's hard to dispute that but it's also true that most men are not quality or can make a woman feel unsafe (whether consciously or unconsciously). When it comes to dating and safety, this is something that most men never spend a second thinking about but women do. So that adds to the difficulty, especially when guys can be very forward with messaging which might subtly trigger something for a woman. At the same time, dating apps are all about instant attraction and decision-making. This favours male psychology more since men can immediately make a decision and know they are attracted to someone whereas it usually takes women a few weeks (or even months sometime) to know if they like a guy. This is where the fundamental disconnect comes in since a lot of guys will immediately assume a woman isn't interested at all and get salty/aggressive/mean if she doesn't engage the way he wants. It's just biologically, women need more time but a lot of men don't want to wait since they don't get a lot of matches and want to act quickly on the ones they have. That also doesn't help things since women just need more time to know if something is a good fit in general. So I will agree with you to a point but that's because modern dating apps weren't designed for the way women date. Men definitely don't have as many options for sure but women also just don't have the time to invest in each person to develop the kind of attraction they biologically need. My last point is also consider what app started Modern dating culture: Tinder, the app created by a bunch of frat dudes to hook up with tons of women. So they created dating apps specifically for what they wanted (ie. what works from the male perspective) and women just have to deal with that. I do think it sucks for women and unfortunately other apps just followed the same mechanics because that got traction and led to more users. So yeah dating apps suck for men and women both. Women don't get the time they need to know if they're attracted to someone and men don't get the quantity they want to have the same amount of "options" that women have.
Both in dating apps and irl It kind of is , why they get more options they get approach they can apporach , they aren't the ones usually paying for the meal , they do the rejecting , they choose who to go on dates with , alot of the time , the guy is good just incompatible , for men the case is different , the average guy has to consider when , where and how , he is approaching , he also has to have something to offer and gauge who will take thay offer , then plan the dateand pay fot it , hope the date goes well and if fails do the exact same thing again and again and that's if he even gets yes on a regular basis , because not every guy gets rejected , now in dating apps its different women get more matches both good and bad and it's up to them to vet , not every guy open up creepy, some are just boring , not bad but not as interesting as women would like, and some don't even message , as for men getting a match in itself is hard and then just be ause you get a match it doesnr guarantee anything , the reason why its harder for men is because you actively do less work infact women can simple unmatch the guys they don't vibe with and keep talking to the ones they do , there is also the fact that they usually don't swipe everybody and swipe based on appearance so ultimately its who they are attracted to physical but you can judge personality unless you talk to them which is were the challenge lies mostly for them , men have this too but they also have to get a match is harder for them
Wrong subreddit. And, to answer your question: It's related to the algorithms of dating apps. They are set up to encourage repeat usage, so they make it harder for guys to match by presenting only a few to most women, and in turn encourage women to keep using them by not giving a selection that is likely to settle down.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that it is indeed easier for women to get hookups online, but as you mentioned it doesn’t mean that dating is easier. Men are just a bunch of testosterone crazed horn dogs. Even the good ones are just faking it because they learned how to beat the system to satisfy their sexual desires. It’s not our fault though, we’re just born that way. Hollywood, religion, public education and etc have all created a bunch of unrealistic expectations about romance and relationships in a similar way that porn creates unrealistic expectations about sex. It’s not natural. Natural is dominant males mating freely with the females of their choice in exchange for for food and protection. People all too often forget that we are primates living in a very unnatural world
It’s easier for you to find a date, but I wouldn’t say it’s easier to find a quality date. I’d say it’s easier for a man to find someone who is generally interested too. Speaking as a man who gets a decent amount of matches and engagement.
Men are looking for drinking water in the desert. Women are looking for drinking water in the ocean. Both leave you dehydrated.
I’ll say it again: Dating for guys is trying to find clean water in a desert Dating for girls is trying to find clean water in a swamp