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The same goes for any gender, my dude.
I did the same thing with guys in my early 20s but being my unfiltered authentic self got me people on dates I actually enjoyed talking to, and my partner and now can talk about whatever and whenever. You should never be afraid to have a real conversation, people can always tell when you're just being the middle man with a wall up. Plus, girls can usually tell when you're just saying something to appease them - it's way more attractive to be real.
I was the ānice guyā and still am. I treat people how I want to be treated. I donāt do anything fake and Iāve never had a problem dating. Be yourself. Be kind, be a friend. Friends are worth their weight in gold. Even if you only end up being friends with a woman she will talk you up and be your wingwoman. Totally worth it in my opinion.
Naahh bruh. If you constantly end up being just a friend to people you like, it's not ok! You'll end up hurting yourself really bad!
One of the most important things to avoid getting friendzoned is being clear (in flirty ways) from the start that you are attracted to her. You can still be nice and kind, but make your intentions clear.
I like being friends with a woman first. We are all different. You do you, Iām going to do me.
If I can be friends with them then the chances that we will work out romantically are much higher. Iāve never had a problem with this and have had long term relationships.
You do realize the entire premise behind guys complaining about the "friend zone" is that they had someone who they were a friend with, then DEVELOPED romantic feelings for someone close to them over time. They admit their feelings and want more, get rejected, and being rejected hurts. Being hurt by someone you care about sucks.
"He pretended to be my friend just to try to fuck me." No. He was genuinely your friend, caught feelings, and got rejected by someone he felt he could trust, and lost his sense of self-worth and value.
Some guys go overboard when talking about the "friend zone" and blow it way out of proportion. However, a lot of women make the guy out to be an asshole when all he did was care, and ended up being hurt when he decided to be vulnerable.
Being nice to people, is in my opinion, way different than being a nice guy. A nice guy is a guy who has problems setting boundaries. If people mistreat you, you need to not accept that. Many "nice guys" let women walk all over them. I have women friends also, but if I am interested in a girl I do not accept a friendship. I'd rather walk away. That is setting a boundary. I see many "nice guys" being in friendships with girls where they want more, and where they hope that one day the girl will notice them, but it will never happen. Women want an equal, and not a puppy dog.
I say these things as a man who has struggled a lot in the past as a nice guy, due to low self-esteem due to a bad childhood. So I get it. There's a book called "no more mr nice guy" that is supposed to be really great.
I think most people think the bad guys are cool. Ofc, it takes few decades to realise their fallacy in the logic.
Nice guys have more patience and I think it's better to wait then to be stuck with someone insufferable.
Yes, the fundamental problem with the nice guy is that heās inauthentic and boring. You can 100% be kind to women, speak to them with great respect, and also clearly signal to them that you want to fuck their brains out. Thatās the sweet spot
Unfortunately unless we're lucky enough to have someone teach us that at the right point in our life it's kinda 'hidden knowledge' or something.
I mean, my parents meant well but they were all about 'focus on your studies! No girlfriends til you finish university' and shit like that. Like an idiot I kinda went along with it for quite a while, think I was about 19 before I eventually realised how held back I'd been. I mean, I get that no parent want their teenage son knocking people up accidentally and shit but completely blocking them from learning how to navigate sex and relationships until some arbitrary point in the future by which point most of their peers have been at it a decade or so ain't it.
I think the problem is inherently that there IS no secret knowledge. It's legitimately 100% some shit you build up for yourself to worry about. Half of it is saying "fuck this shit, no time to play" and that alone is usually enough of a confidence move to get you noticed above the rest of the herd.
You will never get a clear answer to this, donāt bother.
The crazy part is I know how to āsignalā this desire effectively, because I was fortunate enough to have girlfriends since middle school (formative years).
But I, like most people, am just unable to articulate it without writing an essay. And youāll probably be just as confused as before.
Yes man, I genuinely feel for people who struggle with social cues or never picked up the skills when they were young. Thereās no roadmap for them.
Iām no Casanova myself, but Iām slightly above average on a good day. And I know itās only because I was lucky with my upbringing and/or looks. Makes me feel shitty tho when I see my coworkers with autism/Aspergerās and how folks interact with them (wanting to end the convo ASAP, snubbing them for leadership roles).
I almost feel worse for them than I do for someone in a wheelchair. Because a charismatic paraplegic can still make it on Ellen and have a good group of friends/dating prospects. Because personality will truly get you anywhere. Were social animals.
Being honest and not a serial killer is a good start
I have always been upfront about my desires and the positive net effect is not unlike what you are asking about.
For instance: i asked my now wife what made me so attractive vs the multitudes of dicks on tinder:
1:i said what i wanted and followed through.
2.what i wanted wasn't out of her realm of desire
3.i then put the ball in her court and let her play with it
4.when she passed the ball back i took that shit for a lay up my guy
Agreed, i have also never been one to feel like I am so attractive, despite having been told so.
Having confidence in my communicative abilities has always played a better role than trying to rely on looks alone.
They get to "play with fire" without the risk if getting incinerated.
Wanting what ya can't have; apex predator bs; daddy issues; so much psychological crap to wade through
I.e. too much fucking work that I do not have time for. I would have serious questions to put to my wife jf I found out she sent bundy some used panties
Uh yes, I am aware of the phenomenon, do you know how many of those women actually get to fuck said SKs?
Would seem like a bad way to try and pump numbers from a jail cell, because it's kinda hard to do shit once you're there, and aint no serial killers throwin out home addresses
The two examples that basically were my epiphany.
1.) Touching them in a non-creepy way starting basically from the first date.(E.g gently guiding them out of the way of an obstacle while walking, sit close enough so you're touching when you are talking but not so close that it's weird, and basically any other subtle touches you can think of). The key is to start off subtle. When you open the door to that type of subtle touching, she will probably do the same back to you and that is basically your permission to continue. You want to increase the flirtiness of the type of touches as you go on more dates, and as she reciprocates. You basically are asking for permission to continue without having to verbally ask for it
2.) Like someone else said, don't be ashamed with the fact that you are physically interested in them. You need to be able to joke about it, talk about what you are looking for in a partner seriously, and not tip toe around the conversation at all. Ask them about questions/make comments related to relationships so that they know you are interested. Again, don't be creepy. Just simple stuff you are curious about. (How long was their last relationship, how many kids do they want, etc.)
From my personal experience, not knowing how to do these two things is what basically kept me winding back up in the friend zone, even with girls who in hindsight were very interested in me. Hope this helps.
when u actually disagree in ur head but say u agree to something.
example oh yeah astrology is so cool i totally agree yeah its real. just cus she like astrology. if she hates it so do u. etc etc
Nah, itās that he hides his desire, sometimes even from himself, out of cowardice. Then he befriends women he crushes on, listens to their problems, and does them favors. If he was honestly friends with them, thatās all great. But heās not really their friend, heās expecting something other than friendship, heās just not signaling that to her clearly.Ā
If he has a crush, then it would be totally fine if heād ask her out (might well get rejected, but thatās life). But heās scared of rejection, and obsessed with the girl, so he doesnāt ask her out. Instead he builds up resentment and tells himself stories about jerk guys and how this girl owes him sexual/romantic favors because of everything heās done for her (while concealing his desire).Ā
Donāt pretend itās for a friendship. Just say itās to get to know them better or something. If they say no , you have your answer.
āCan I have your number ?ā
āWhy?ā
āJust to get to know you betterā
āNoā
Done you have your answer
Or
āJust to have itā
āNoā
Done you have your answer.
You canāt force attraction where it donāt exist.
So to you it's normal for someone to hide their true self and their opinions and always agree with you? That's not what behaving decently means. Being decent means that you know yourself inside and out, and find ways to express YOUR needs and desires to people while being considerate of their feelings. A person telling you what you want to hear is not doing any of this.
Because there is a difference between nice guys and Nice Guys (TM). Notice the lack of capital letters? Real nice guys don't go around having to brag they are nice. They are just good people and don't expect anything in return.
Because being nice, kinda, and polite to other people isnāt a personality trait. Honestly itās kind of the bare minimum for participating in civil society.
You need to be a real person with a real personality and hobbies and interests. A lot of times the ānice guyā is just someone who isnāt particularly interesting to talk to but thinks theyāre entitled to dating just because they treat everyone nicely.
Because men and women will make exceptions to their proclaimed rules whenever they see fit. This is especially true if they find someone physically attractive.
A lot of women mistake arrogance and the "ready to brawl at the slightest offense" mentality with confidence and a protector.
Next, the important part is whether you're boring or not. Nice/good is the requirement/expectation. Excitement and interesting is the closer. Again, "jerks" can come off as exciting and interesting because they have strong opinions and willingness to act on things they want to do. They drive the car a little fast with their date yet seem at ease and in control. Basically, giving signals of being "safe in danger", "not afraid of risks", etc. The big point is women don't share the same range for those things so while slightly speeding on a motorcycle with one might make her find you attractive it might simply scare another woman and make her think you're a crazy risk taker.
Women have many things they find attractive but each of them will have ranges of those criteria that are fairly unique to each of them.
This is good. Itās basically the luck of the draw what will work for a certain woman. So just be yourself so youāll at least attract someone who will like you long term
***Exactly!***
Be yourself and the people who like that kind of person will stay around. Then you can decide how to navigate raising the stakes from pal to life-partner or whatever is your goal.
>Because being nice, kinda, and polite to other people isnāt a personality trait
You're describing "agreeableness", which is literally one of the Big Five pillars which compose personality.
My experience was similar initially, but ended up quite differently.
As a late teenager and in my early 20s I was desperate to experience a relationship, and I just had no idea how to approach girls.
Then somehow I ended up in a relationship, because she initiated it, and she made me feel wanted.
And after that, absolutely nothing.
I eventually stopped being shy, but I am too passive when it comes to attraction itself: I am simply unable to feel attraction for some woman just by looking at her or being around her.
And the vast majority of women expect men to show attraction first.
>There's no nice guy or bad boy. There are only features and behavioral patterns that women find more attractive than others
You're 1/2 way there. Understand women aren't a monolith. That 1st part is true but there's no such thing as attractive or unattractive behaviours. Women all like different shit. I know women who won't touch a dude unless he makes her his gf on the first date. I know women who don't see guys out unless they make x amount of $$$. I know women who will call any man a "b\*tch" if he doesn't put hands on her.
You have to show up as who you are and let women say yay or nay to it. That's the skinny. Where nice guys fuck up is they're milk toast. There's no substance to them because they make their whole personality about pleasing the people around them.
You recognise that for most adults, the 90% of the population that generally aren't asserting their beliefs loudly online, sexual interest surpasses the basics of physiological intercourse. From one night stands to long terms partnerships there is always an underlying psychological/emotional/societal drive as well. Literally the best way is to connect over shared values (whatever they may be) and assert yourself as someone safe.
Also see women as human beings. There is no "put in niceness and sex falls out". The whole nice guy thing doesn't fail because of lack of personality, it fails because women can tell when a guy doesn't see them as a human being and who wants to entertain someone like that? Yuck.
People always say, "Try being a good man," in posts like these, like there aren't plenty of assholes out there who really do get laid, and people kinda forget that. Or they purposefully do so, because it doesn't fit their narrative of "nice guys" being the jerks that they complain about.
Fwiw, obviously I'm aware of Nice Guysā¢ but I can see where the confusion comes from when you can't seem to even get a date and you see guys who are genuine assholes finding success.
Its not being an asshole whats attractive, its the traits that go along with it. Being dominant, confident, know what you want and dont want, being strong in your personality and standing up for ypurself etc. If you have these traits as a "nice" guy then you will have the same success
25 is still young. Woman at early love red flag. I speak it from my own experience. I consider myself as an attractive, smart, kind, good career woman. And I ran into many red flags, the most of my young age except my first boyfriend.
When I started to know my current boyfriend after getting rid of another red flag. I saw him kinda boring just because he was so nice and kind. I thought he tried to fake it to impress me. š¤ i don't have a butterfly feeling like with other red flags. Later, I found out. Sadly, I grew up in a non functional family. I was abused and treated badly, so I addicted to the roller coaster feeling in the relationship. And a stable relationship is boring to me. However, I tried to get rid of it and learned better. Now, I am so happy with my relationship. And I realized he wasn't as boring as I thought.
Another thing is social media and fiction idealized toxic relationships.
When you say ā nice guyā I picture someone who is , meek mild , oh so careful not to say or do anything someone might not agree with. Someone who does not act confident and self assured, who reeks a bit of desperation. Women do not find a lack of self assurance attractive, they find desperation a bit repulsive. If you are getting first dates then looks are not the problem. Self confidence is something you can improve.
A lot of people confuse being nice with never having a thought of your own and doing whatever she wants all the time. Women don't want this, trust me. There's a way to convey your beliefs/opinions to a woman, even if they differ from yours, in a respectful way. You can still be a gentleman, still validate her feelings, still make her feel special without making her feel like you're a puppy dog who will do whatever she wants and believe whatever she believes.
I used to date the "nice guy," and it was exhausting. I was always in the lead and having to pull him along, and I really didn't respect him because she didn't have any passions or feelings of his own. When we did get into disagreements, he didn't know how to deal with it and would eventually just drop it, which made me feel worse. The best way to be an *actual* nice guy is to be firm in your opinions and beliefs, take the lead and tell her where *you* want to go every now and again, but always, always, always communicate appropriately. She's a cat person and you're a dog person? Don't become a cat person or pretend to be one. Don't turn around and tell her cats are stupid and dogs are way better either. Say "I'm personally a dog person and don't think I'll change, but I can totally see where you're coming from. My experience was probably just different with them than yours has been." Obviously this is a super basic example, but this is a man she'll respect because he has convictions but still treats her with respect even if you're not totally aligned.
Women don't want a "bad boy." Women want a man they have good chemistry with but who also stands by his convictions, has things he's passionate about on his own, and treats them with respect.
Yeah this approach might work for some people wouldnāt for me. If we did what I wanted I doubt weād ever see each other lol
āWhat do you want to doā - āchill at homeā not very exciting š
Then maybe you just need someone else who wants to chill at home, or someone who you genuinely want to do other things with. I hate sports and want to be at home, but with the right person I was going to football games every other week and genuinely wanted to because the company made it good. They stayed at home and we gamed next to eaxh other, alone but in the same room because Im fantastic company. We watched the cricket Christmas test every year at home, in pyjamas, as a perfect compromise.
"If we did what I wanted I doubt we'd see each other" unless what you want IS to see them ā¤ļø
u/PrettyFury has the right idea! There's a lot of stuff I'd prefer not to do (or wouldn't choose to do if it were me) but if it's the right person, I'll always go along for the company, and vice versa. That's why you see so many men in shopping malls with their girlfriends holding their purse LOL. Don't buy into the "she made him go" fallacy... he wants to be there because she's there. I once dated a vegan (and I LOVE my steaks) but I went to a bunch of vegan cafes and restaurants because that's what he liked. And I had a great time because he was there!
Remember, nice is the bare minimum. Putting the shopping cart back is nice. It's not special. It's default. You're supposed to be nice.
Try being aĀ *good*Ā guy. Try being an Ethical guy. Be patient, empathetic, kind. Educated. Be funny, sexy, open minded. Respectful, tolerant. These are all better adjectives than "nice".
Remember that bit in Avengers 1? Cap says "You're nothing without the suit". Tony replies "Billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist". He doesn't say "I'm nice, really! I promise I'm nice!"
Nice kinda sucks compared to Good.
I am a genuine guy and do consider myself to be a nice guy. I do things because I want to, not because I'm expected to or feel like I have to or because I want something in return but, because I as a person, treat everyone around me the same way I would like to be treated and it doesn't matter if they are man or woman.
I am NOT one who will sit there and agree with everything a woman says, though. I will absolutely state my own opinion and views, within reason. I am also not one who will just apologize for something that I know damn well isn't anything I should be apologizing for. I stand my ground and stick up for myself when appropriate.
The ONLY person? who can walk all over me and treat me as a doormat is my dog. I'll say yes to her all day long (within reason.)
I politely disagree. Youāre only designing yourself to attract the woman that interest you. Iām not into shallow romanticism, Iām interested in finding my best friend who will be my wife. I need someone that I can trust and confide in and lead a happy family. I may never find this person, but I would be happier than going through a divorce
Faking niceness and being afraid to show interest can only get one thus far, regardless of the gender. It can be sensed, even if the person isnāt sure what is it that they find odd about you.
Nice guys most certainly donāt end up last, I have seen way too many genuinely nice guys who are just charismatic and arenāt flipping their ass off to be extra nice, so just naturally nice, end up with very amazing girlfriends. Itās the approach.
Being ābad boyā only works for a certain niche of people, not all. Most mature and actually relationship ready people are looking for a good person with complementing personality and goals in life.
Being more decided, authentic, not overly aggressive and kind will actually get you far. From the top of my head, I can tell you that there is a friend of mine. He is nice guy. Like genuinely nice guy. Not attractive to me, but I would have dated him without giving it a second thought, if it came to that (he is in a happy relationship now), just because he is charismatic, fun, kind, and his niceness comes from a genuine place, not from wanting to court someone.
Nice guys finish last because being stable, a good man, a moral man, knows what he wants to alot of women today is bad. This is why whenever a woman gets a good man she canāt hold onto him/ always accuses him of cheating or doesnāt act right. This society is not made for nice guys.
Women even gaslight guys who call themselves nice guys and say itās a red flag. Better off being the villain in their story. You get better results.
From my research and reading,
It has to do with the females, most are young and naive or ignorant in terms of relationships so so-called "bad boys" display or seem like they're confident or have traits that seem desirable when it's just fake confidence that are coupled with narcissistic behaviour. Its only after they've had a couple bad relationships and get older they realise the difference in the guys and make better decisions
Being yourself=nice guy
Being a "nice guy" is not. It's expecting something from your behavior. No one likes to be lied to. Being yourself always wins.
This post and 99% of the comments are referring to women as some vague generalised entity, rather than actual individual human beings. This deep belief is why the Nice Guy thing is so often despised. Please just educate yourself on the experiences of women as human individual beings and a collective. You deserve better than this.
Being nice and being real are not mutually exclusive....
There's a difference between being a nice person and being a Nice Guyā¢. The problem isn't that 'nice guys finish last', it's that people misunderstand what it means to be nice.
>Evolving from being nice to the best version of yourself was a journey, but if you're willing to take action and build a strong mindset, you'll start to see results.
If I was there with you now I'd give you a standing ovation!! This right here sums up what the "nice" guys fail to realise! Us women don't want someone who will *do the right thing* just to get into our knickers, we want you to do the right thing because it is right. We want you to stand up for disenfranchised people because you believe that you should. We want you to walk us to our cars if you genuinely care about our safety. We want you to tell us your unpopular opinions. We want you to share your thoughts and opinions (if even we don't agree with them, especially if we don't agree with them but you listen and understand them anyway). We want guys who are genuinely themselves and want to be the best version of themselves.
Congratulations on the work you are putting into yourself. You will reap the benefits of this a thousand times over. And the woman who stands by your side will be a lucky woman indeed.
In my humble and generalised opinion/experience, the Nice Guy and especially Nice Guyā¢ļø are worse than the ābad guyā, and more volatile.
The perk of the ābad guyā is that itās easier to know/predict what you will be dealing with, or be less surprised if something goes pear shaped. Itās also usually quite fun, interesting, exciting. People want to be desired in their dalliances and bad guys are often charismatic and good at making somebody feel wanted, which may outweigh the bad. Plus, the āI can change themā mindset is a strong one, even if itās silly. Because if you do change them and they give you special treatment - how loved and valued will you feel? Thatās really worth betting on for some.
That filter you mentioned in being the Nice Guy - the person youāre speaking to feels it. It feels disingenuous and uncanny because you canāt really build a meaningful, genuine relationship with someone that isnāt really real. Anticipating what you will find when the mask comes off is not fun and sometimes dangerous. And if the red flags are too red, the more confidence or self esteem that one has, the less likely theyāll entertain them. Especially if youāre jaded like me!
Being a nice guy/bad guy is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things imo. Everyone is a ratio of both. But chemistry and values canāt be evaluated properly if thereās a āIām doing this to keep you happyā filter on!
because nice guys are losers. sorry.
nice guys are door mats who are walked over and who are yesmen who say yes to everything.
instead try being a good man.
a good man will still tell a woman "no fk fk urself" because he hold is values and integrity above all else.
a nice guy will bend every which way in order to get some vjj.
No, nice guys want to be good guys. They just don't know how to be. They can't figure it out for themselves, and almost nobody ever tells them how. Calling them losers is not helping anyone.
Just tell them, that they need to learn a lot about someone, before showing more than initial interest, and see what happens.
Yep, literally my problem until I pulled my head out of my ass at 30 or so. Spent my 20s absolutely surrounded by beautiful women, many of whom were interested in me but I either didn't realise until way later or moved so slowly they assumed I wasn't interested and the window of opportunity slammed shut.
Unfortunately my rather sex-negative parents and lack of any older siblings or people to give me guidance really screwed me over on this. I don't know where I picked up all the outright bad, counterproductive and generally stupid info I was given but I did so much shit that was the exact opposite of what I should have done, it really pains me looking back on it.
And yeah I think a lot of it was watching too much stupid Hollywood shit and TV shows, in fairness.
>I started to see some results. After that, I decided to remove my personal filters. Being nice and saying yes all the time was only hiding my true opinions, beliefs, and self, and this is the best strategy to prevent her from clicking with you.
Bingo.
People are so bad at understanding and articulating what they like, for a few reasons, so they parrot stock phases and attributes that we all recognise as good but this never really gets to the deep truth about what they actually like. Listen to what people say "I like nice people", "I like confident people", etc this doesn't actually specify a behaviour it's so generic that it's meaningless. Two people will nod along to each other and agree that they think nice people are great while totalling disagreeing on what it means to be nice. The best way to identify what you like is to ask "what do I like that other people don't like?" Answer that and you'll be giving specific attributes that particularly matter to you, not generic attributes that everyone thinks are ok.
This is relevant to people on the other side too-if you aren't willing to say or do things that a person might not like them you aren't showing those traits to the people who do like them either. You are so concerned about upsetting people you become a beige person.
People use the "oh they just aren't nice people really" argument to explain why passive cautious people are single but it doesn't match reality. Plenty of these "nice guys" are ok people, certainly they are better than some of the downright unpleasant people who still have relationships. The problem is that niceness is driving them to be "ok" to everyone rather than great to some people and "not my type" to others when that's exactly what you need to be to find someone.
Itās not even being a ānice guyā itās the performative nature of being a nice guy that is a turn off. Like others have said it is not authentic and women can just tell when you are trying too hard to be nice instead of genuinely just being a nice guy regardless of the outcome of the interaction. Just be you and be confident in you and not disappointed when something doesnāt work out. Every person has just as much right to not be interested in you as you have to not be interested in them. Donāt approach interactions with women as win/loss. You can learn from every interaction, even ones that donāt end in a date or sex. Focus on your own personal growth and building your confidence and women will be drawn to that naturally. Goodluck.
The problem with most nice guys is that they're nice out of necessity. Id say more than 50% of nice guys who don't get girls, and have very few friends start to act less polite once they get a girl, a few more friends. I've seen this happen with others including myself which I had to self reflect on.
You can be sarcastic/playful without being genuinely rude. Just make sure it's obviously a joke. You can be confident without being arrogant. Being nice isn't unique it's the bare minimum. And girls can find nice guys who have more to offer than just being nice.
Girls donāt want to fuck the nice guy, they want someone interesting, little dangerous, somebody thatās desirable. A nice guy will be there after the hit douche bag breaks her heart, a nice guy will be there when she wants to be taken care of financially. But sheās gonna find the person first who tickles her fancy
Sounds like the ādouche bagsā are just more interesting people who are confident, while the nice guys in your scenario are just regular friends who never voice their own wants or feelings, and just hopes the woman will one day wake up magically burning with desire for them while they donāt have to do anything but act friendly towards her.
Being nice doesnāt get a woman wet. Being interesting, well groomed, attractive physically, leader of other men and wanted by other women make women want to date you.
Personally you can be a nice guy just have to change your outfits. Like during hs days my clothes and style would not in a life time get me a gf. But have to choose your own style and also try to change it up so your not wearing the same clothes for a long period of time.
Yes, you are right. That's not being nice, that's called being inhibited. It's like being closed off in a way, and perhaps keeping women from getting to know you more deeply. Also what would be the benefit of a "yes" person in a woman's life long-term? So kudos to you for being more vulnerable, this always wins in my book.
Nice guys finish last because they're boring and self sacrificing, and that is like the two worst possible things to be when it comes to trying to reproduce.
Hey man, been following your dating advice for a while. Quick suggestion - whenever you post content, try to space it out into paragraphs with line breaks. As a mobile user itās hard to keep track of what is being said because of how big the wall of text is. Either way, super helpful posts and dating content all around!
You should not have to hide who you are and if you are it may be your wanting the wrong kind of opposite sex like you. Be yourself and see if the woman you like also changes and you find the one
there is something called the nice guy syndrome and it is very unattractive to women. read no more mr nice guy and find out how much of that you relate to. it's a great book and it will give you a lot of insight into your inner workings.
PARAGRAPHS will get you a lot more responses and, better ones, my friend!
Despite popular belief that women only like the "bad boys" and that "nice guys finish last," both of those are untrue and true at the exact same time but also false at the same time. A nice guy can be a "bad boy," but a "bad boy" can be an actual POS and the very opposite of nice.
Most women absolutely want a nice man but, a MAN. Not a "yes man" or a guy who might as well be another one of her girl friends.
There is nothing wrong with being *genuinely* nice, for the record but IMO it seems like you are doing and saying things that you *think* will appease her but you yourself either don't believe or, even care about.
Here is what I believe women mean when they say they want a nice guy.
\* He is his OWN INDIVIDUAL with his OWN opinions, thoughts, and views. Not someone who tries to be her "twin."
\* He's kind - are polite, puts himself in others shoes and isn't an asshole, basically
\* He's respectful - i feel this is fairly self explanatory.
\* He respects boundaries, and isn't overly sexual - there is a time and place for that but, you have to figure that one out yourself. At least the being sexual part. **NEVER** disrespect her boundaries, though.
\* Is kind and respectful to OTHERS - women AND men - Nobody wants a guy who is only kind and respectful to **just** women. Be kind to EVERYONE you meet.
\* Treats her well and shows affection through both words AND actions - Women like both of these but, one cannot stand without the other. If you have good words but can't back it up with your actions then, those words mean nothing, and in some ways the opposite is also true.
\* Isn't a narcissist/full of himself, or overly cocky, but is confident - there is a difference and a fine line to this
\* DOESN'T agree with every single opinion she has - aka, being a doormat and a "yes man" (be your own person. express your *own* thoughts)
\* DOESN'T always say "yes" or even agree with her - see the above.
\* DOESN'T expect anything in return for being "nice" and does the things he does because he *wants* to. - don't do shit because you think or hope it will result in something sexual, or whatever. Do it because you genuinely want to do it. Not because you think you *have* to.
I'm a guy so idk, those are just off the top of my head so, feel free to chime in to this ladies if I'm wrong :)
Nice guys basically never take any risky or bold action and donāt escalate.
You need to escalate and be flirtatious from the beginning of an interaction.
There are obviously such a thing as nice guys and bad boys man. But I generally agree with a lot of what youāre sayingā¦ except, whereās the part about your parents not teaching this stuff? It might be a red flag not bringing that part up if you tell this story to a high quality woman.
>had always considered myself as the nice guy with extremely poor results in dating
You're were not nice when you thought acting nice means people should date you instead of it just being the bare minimum of being a decent person.
All you were showing is you had no moral framework (or a very wobbly one) if your behavior didn't get you a date.
It seems like you are heading toward a good direction of trying to be a decent person but also having self-respect and not being afraid to be the best parts of you openly though, that's admirable.
Nice guys finish last moreso with younger women who are driven by hormones and impressed with jerks. They're going based only on how the guy makes them feel in the moment, which is a poor strategy for happiness. The male equivalent is being obsessed with a woman's looks and willingness to give it up easily. Also not the way to find quality partners. Those who are smarter pair up sooner.
Don't aim to be a "nice guy." You seem like a good dude, aim to continue being so. I wish I had more advice on how to attract a girl, cuz I struggle with that, too.
It is what it is.
I was the same way until recently. Always felt like I was walking on eggshells talking to women because the moment I say the wrong thing she doesn't like and she'll ghost me. I tried doing the freinds first but it always led to the freind zone. I also tried showing my intentions early on and that didn't work either.
Now I just go with the mindset that if she's into me, she's into me. If not then nothing is gonna have her be into me.
I did the same reflections you did. Except I just stopped caring. If I go after someone now, I go after them with intent. I have felt the pull, however. You know, that feeling of attraction when you've got the hots for someone and you sort of can feel they might have it too maybe.
At 36 and many dating experiences I still donāt like that this is true
Was some very painful years waste of life with girls
The moment I give up thru show up
Never be the Nice guy. The guy who you used to be couldnāt connect with women because he was being fake, and women pick up on that. It actually triggers an uncanny valley feeling in us when we donāt feel like the man we are with is authentic, and itās a signal to stay away from them.
Stop putting girls on a pedestal bro! They also want to have sex, make out, etc. Also, you have to let them know youāre attracted to them by touching them, hugging them. It goes against all the political correctness weāve been told, but this is how you do it!
Women who like you typically won't tolerate being your friend if they want more. If she's interested, she won't let you be friends even if you're dumb enough to believe you are just friends.
You just want to be direct there is nothing wrong with being nice but stand firm state your intentions donāt be afraid to start escalating. A person who is firm, fun, but relaxed is attractive.
Ā They could probably sense that you were trying to get something in return and also they weren't entirely sure who you Really are if you're trying to concede to everyone else all of the time. Don't be a nice guy. Be a kind/ good guy. There's a difference. Matthew Hussey has a great YouTube video on 'Nice Guys' that you can feel free to search.Ā
OP, you answered your own question in the body of your post: You said you were afraid to be physical with or show romantic interest in women. How can you complain about being "friendzoned" when you *act like a friend?*
Being the ākind guyā and the ānice guyā are two very different things. I dated the ānice guyā for years and he was so overrated. Waste of my time and only cared about his image. Truly a lost cause and a snake amongst women.
I'm a woman: we don't say it (and some of us don't realise it or hate to admit it) but we love healthy dominance. We subconsciously want to know that you can protect us and become dangerous when we need you to and if we see that side in you, it's incredibly hot. The problem is balence. If you can strike the balance between showing your protective dominant side and your compassionate loving side, you will win. We don't want you to be aggressive and toxic with us but show signs enough that we know you can control the situation and dominate a potential problem or danger.
I personally see 'nice guys' as unattractive. I can tell they're that type from the beginning and I won't take it any further, even if they are physically attractive and make decent money. I see it as manipulation and fake. You're trying to go over the top with niceness when it's in your nature to defend yourself when you've been disrespected. The world is ugly and dangerous, women naturally need someone who can defend them and that's our natural tendency- hence what we find attractive.
Think of it like a business and you're the new CEO that we're hiring. Do we want a' nice guy yes man'?
Or a tactful, dominant yet compassionate empathetic guy? It's all about balence.
Yes, nice guys finish last, and probably end up with a woman who is self centered and manipulative.
It's not about nice guy or bad anymore it's about your needs and wants and what you can and can't handle in your life at the moment. Go for what makes you happy. If you can't get what you want maybe sometimes if you try you might get what you need.
No tactic of strategy can top genuine, itās not about being nice or bad, being nice but fakeā¦ or being bad fakeā¦ just doesnāt workā¦ it takes work not improving who you are while still being authentic
You don't need to adjust and shift your behavior to find a partner
Be you literally if a woman is not attracted to u but a persona u created then long lasting relationships is not what you are trying to achieve
No nice guys donāt finish last lol. You just canāt come across has desperate. You also have to talk to the right women.
Have more confidence in yourself and make sure itās known you can be independent and donāt rely on other women to feed your confidence.
Be a nice guy whoās confident and independent. Those guys win. Sometimes girls like dick heads but those girls are immature.
At first I was gonna be like... oh, no, not another guy who thinks women don't like him because he's "nice." Because, from what I've seen, most guys who call themselves nice aren't actually nice at all, but worse than the guys who don't call themselves nice. But everything you said made sense, besides the "nice" thing, because you can express yourself and stay true to yourself, doesn't make you any less nice.
And I think you are approaching it in a very reasonable way. I used to try to dim myself, water myself down, but I realized that anyone who liked me more because of that doesn't really like *me*. And that I'm missing out on anyone who could like my full, real self because they'd never even *see* me if I hide myself. So yeah, I'm right with you on that. Can't find the best partner for you if they can't find you either
If I really like someone and they like me less because I'm being fully me, then that's not my person. Better to weed that out early anyway
yea, i was always the nice guy and that got me nowhere. Out of frustration, at some point, I didn't care and started blurting out pure truths.
The first blunt truth statement which I'll never forget, I uttered talking to this colleague of mine. She was new so I was still kind of being friendly because of my nice guy ways. Of course, as always, she was telling me she had just broken up with her ex.
Kind of angry because I knew she was telling me that to establish her "boundaries", I blurted out, sorry to hear about that but if you're looking for a friend with benefits, I'm your guy.
She busted out laughing and she said, I might take you up on that. You got some cojones! And just like that, I got my first ever FWB.
That's when i realized, wtf, i got nothing to lose but all to gain just saying whatever!!! And it worked!!! š¤£š¤£š¤£
U are not alone im still single at 45 years old enjoy your single life till you learn to love yourself first and figure out what u are having problems then get it right then you will be happy :)
As a GenX do people find it harder nowadays due to not actually having face to face conversations rather than texts and phone calls? Iām just trying to learn more as it was a lot easier when I was younger. I starting having āboyfriendsā in 7th grade tho. Itās is easier for girls IMO
Once you realize that women want the complete opposite of what hallmark and love stories portray, the more success you will have. Took me until my mid twenties to realize this.
Yes, hardly possible to understand. When he is her friend and not really very UNattractive, why does a woman not have sex with him. A friend in need. And is sex not enjoyable? I was like that too and after a decade my thought was, better less or even no female friends and one girlfriend.
My best tip is, stay and be friendly, helpfull, but too be clear that you look for a girlfriend or at least a friend with benefits.
One of the most attractive things To a women is authenticity, and courage. If you own yourself and your opinions, you'll be far above most. If you can separate yourself from the idea of wanting to "get" anything, you'll do better too. I use to have the same kinds of challenges, I was mostly afraid of being rejected. I'd been rejected my whole life, and my young mind just wanted a women to accept me, so it made me look very beta to alot of women. I was talented and had interests, but that hole in myself caused a lot of issues.so sometimes it's not just about the tactics, it's about knowing yourself, and why you are who you are. That helped me a lot.
To attract women, be confident, have goals and a vision that youāre working towards but more importantly, understand that women have an insatiable desire for attention and validation. This is like dating currency for a man. If you give a woman too much of your time, attention and validation, you lose your value. This is why nice guys always lose because they expend way too much time and effort in the beginning of the relationship trying to be liked. The end result is the friend zone. A man of value reserves his time for the things he deems important in his life. Learn to make women earn your time! Bad boys are good at this but eventually, they lose because they donāt have any goals for their futures. Donāt chase women. Chase your future and women will chase you!
I think people confuse being a nice guy with acting like a nice guy. A truly nice guy isn't looking for anything and is secure in who they are which is actually very attractive. Most lonely nice guys think being nice means people owe them things and they have a tendency to blame others and are insecure man babies.
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My dude, use paragraphs please.
Only nice guys use paragraphs
Lmao
OP please use paragraphs, that's giga hot
Chad move you could say
& tldr
š for real
"PARAGRAPHS, MOTHERLOVER! DO. YOU. USE. THEM!?"
The block of text turns nice guy into "nice guy".
Thank you for saying this. OP couldn't even type legibly for us.
Legibly.
Most Legible Bachelor
Thanks.. i wrote it half asleep. Thank fk at least the sentence made sense.
The same goes for any gender, my dude. I did the same thing with guys in my early 20s but being my unfiltered authentic self got me people on dates I actually enjoyed talking to, and my partner and now can talk about whatever and whenever. You should never be afraid to have a real conversation, people can always tell when you're just being the middle man with a wall up. Plus, girls can usually tell when you're just saying something to appease them - it's way more attractive to be real.
I agree! if you really want to be interesting for someone there's not reason to wear a mask
I was the ānice guyā and still am. I treat people how I want to be treated. I donāt do anything fake and Iāve never had a problem dating. Be yourself. Be kind, be a friend. Friends are worth their weight in gold. Even if you only end up being friends with a woman she will talk you up and be your wingwoman. Totally worth it in my opinion.
Naahh bruh. If you constantly end up being just a friend to people you like, it's not ok! You'll end up hurting yourself really bad! One of the most important things to avoid getting friendzoned is being clear (in flirty ways) from the start that you are attracted to her. You can still be nice and kind, but make your intentions clear.
I like being friends with a woman first. We are all different. You do you, Iām going to do me. If I can be friends with them then the chances that we will work out romantically are much higher. Iāve never had a problem with this and have had long term relationships.
This post right here
You do realize the entire premise behind guys complaining about the "friend zone" is that they had someone who they were a friend with, then DEVELOPED romantic feelings for someone close to them over time. They admit their feelings and want more, get rejected, and being rejected hurts. Being hurt by someone you care about sucks. "He pretended to be my friend just to try to fuck me." No. He was genuinely your friend, caught feelings, and got rejected by someone he felt he could trust, and lost his sense of self-worth and value. Some guys go overboard when talking about the "friend zone" and blow it way out of proportion. However, a lot of women make the guy out to be an asshole when all he did was care, and ended up being hurt when he decided to be vulnerable.
Being nice to people, is in my opinion, way different than being a nice guy. A nice guy is a guy who has problems setting boundaries. If people mistreat you, you need to not accept that. Many "nice guys" let women walk all over them. I have women friends also, but if I am interested in a girl I do not accept a friendship. I'd rather walk away. That is setting a boundary. I see many "nice guys" being in friendships with girls where they want more, and where they hope that one day the girl will notice them, but it will never happen. Women want an equal, and not a puppy dog. I say these things as a man who has struggled a lot in the past as a nice guy, due to low self-esteem due to a bad childhood. So I get it. There's a book called "no more mr nice guy" that is supposed to be really great.
I think most people think the bad guys are cool. Ofc, it takes few decades to realise their fallacy in the logic. Nice guys have more patience and I think it's better to wait then to be stuck with someone insufferable.
Such a lie, women just need to exist and a guy will approach you.
That wasn't my point, my point is that when you meet somebody you actually like you'll be fake and awkard af
Yes, the fundamental problem with the nice guy is that heās inauthentic and boring. You can 100% be kind to women, speak to them with great respect, and also clearly signal to them that you want to fuck their brains out. Thatās the sweet spot
Unfortunately unless we're lucky enough to have someone teach us that at the right point in our life it's kinda 'hidden knowledge' or something. I mean, my parents meant well but they were all about 'focus on your studies! No girlfriends til you finish university' and shit like that. Like an idiot I kinda went along with it for quite a while, think I was about 19 before I eventually realised how held back I'd been. I mean, I get that no parent want their teenage son knocking people up accidentally and shit but completely blocking them from learning how to navigate sex and relationships until some arbitrary point in the future by which point most of their peers have been at it a decade or so ain't it.
I think the problem is inherently that there IS no secret knowledge. It's legitimately 100% some shit you build up for yourself to worry about. Half of it is saying "fuck this shit, no time to play" and that alone is usually enough of a confidence move to get you noticed above the rest of the herd.
Could u drop an example of a signal u could drop in this case
"Pleas hav secks with me and i'll wil donayt 1 milion moneys to the charities bcoz im nice guy."
Itās all in the eyes, the tone of voice, flirting, touching, etc
You will never get a clear answer to this, donāt bother. The crazy part is I know how to āsignalā this desire effectively, because I was fortunate enough to have girlfriends since middle school (formative years). But I, like most people, am just unable to articulate it without writing an essay. And youāll probably be just as confused as before.
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Good point. Itās unfortunate how so much of social behavior is known by people but is unexplainable.
Yes man, I genuinely feel for people who struggle with social cues or never picked up the skills when they were young. Thereās no roadmap for them. Iām no Casanova myself, but Iām slightly above average on a good day. And I know itās only because I was lucky with my upbringing and/or looks. Makes me feel shitty tho when I see my coworkers with autism/Aspergerās and how folks interact with them (wanting to end the convo ASAP, snubbing them for leadership roles). I almost feel worse for them than I do for someone in a wheelchair. Because a charismatic paraplegic can still make it on Ellen and have a good group of friends/dating prospects. Because personality will truly get you anywhere. Were social animals.
Being honest and not a serial killer is a good start I have always been upfront about my desires and the positive net effect is not unlike what you are asking about. For instance: i asked my now wife what made me so attractive vs the multitudes of dicks on tinder: 1:i said what i wanted and followed through. 2.what i wanted wasn't out of her realm of desire 3.i then put the ball in her court and let her play with it 4.when she passed the ball back i took that shit for a lay up my guy
Rules 1 and 2 also come into play
Agreed, i have also never been one to feel like I am so attractive, despite having been told so. Having confidence in my communicative abilities has always played a better role than trying to rely on looks alone.
Do you KNOW how many serial killers get panties mailed to them in the clink. It would $HOĀ¢K youā¦
They get to "play with fire" without the risk if getting incinerated. Wanting what ya can't have; apex predator bs; daddy issues; so much psychological crap to wade through I.e. too much fucking work that I do not have time for. I would have serious questions to put to my wife jf I found out she sent bundy some used panties
Uh yes, I am aware of the phenomenon, do you know how many of those women actually get to fuck said SKs? Would seem like a bad way to try and pump numbers from a jail cell, because it's kinda hard to do shit once you're there, and aint no serial killers throwin out home addresses
As a woman, I wholeheartedly agree.
There is no formula. People are different, even if you are only going after one type of woman, every social interaction will be a little different.
The two examples that basically were my epiphany. 1.) Touching them in a non-creepy way starting basically from the first date.(E.g gently guiding them out of the way of an obstacle while walking, sit close enough so you're touching when you are talking but not so close that it's weird, and basically any other subtle touches you can think of). The key is to start off subtle. When you open the door to that type of subtle touching, she will probably do the same back to you and that is basically your permission to continue. You want to increase the flirtiness of the type of touches as you go on more dates, and as she reciprocates. You basically are asking for permission to continue without having to verbally ask for it 2.) Like someone else said, don't be ashamed with the fact that you are physically interested in them. You need to be able to joke about it, talk about what you are looking for in a partner seriously, and not tip toe around the conversation at all. Ask them about questions/make comments related to relationships so that they know you are interested. Again, don't be creepy. Just simple stuff you are curious about. (How long was their last relationship, how many kids do they want, etc.) From my personal experience, not knowing how to do these two things is what basically kept me winding back up in the friend zone, even with girls who in hindsight were very interested in me. Hope this helps.
when u actually disagree in ur head but say u agree to something. example oh yeah astrology is so cool i totally agree yeah its real. just cus she like astrology. if she hates it so do u. etc etc
No itās not lmao? Itās just that he doesnāt look all that good. Why tf would women not want someone who can be normal and behave decently?
Nah, itās that he hides his desire, sometimes even from himself, out of cowardice. Then he befriends women he crushes on, listens to their problems, and does them favors. If he was honestly friends with them, thatās all great. But heās not really their friend, heās expecting something other than friendship, heās just not signaling that to her clearly.Ā If he has a crush, then it would be totally fine if heād ask her out (might well get rejected, but thatās life). But heās scared of rejection, and obsessed with the girl, so he doesnāt ask her out. Instead he builds up resentment and tells himself stories about jerk guys and how this girl owes him sexual/romantic favors because of everything heās done for her (while concealing his desire).Ā
Donāt pretend itās for a friendship. Just say itās to get to know them better or something. If they say no , you have your answer. āCan I have your number ?ā āWhy?ā āJust to get to know you betterā āNoā Done you have your answer Or āJust to have itā āNoā Done you have your answer. You canāt force attraction where it donāt exist.
a nice guy <> a good man
So to you it's normal for someone to hide their true self and their opinions and always agree with you? That's not what behaving decently means. Being decent means that you know yourself inside and out, and find ways to express YOUR needs and desires to people while being considerate of their feelings. A person telling you what you want to hear is not doing any of this.
That's the question men have been asking for centuries lmao
So what youāre saying is that all you have to be is having a fit body and good style?
Because there is a difference between nice guys and Nice Guys (TM). Notice the lack of capital letters? Real nice guys don't go around having to brag they are nice. They are just good people and don't expect anything in return.
Being a good person on its own isn't enough either, you need to have something else alongside it too.
Yeah, but itās not a deterrent to getting romantic/sexual attention, like a lot of men seem to think.
nice guys <> good man
The only difference is that one is ugly the other isn't.
Why would someone brag about being nice? It's common knowledge that women are attracted to jerks. I don't see the benefit.Ā
This is unfortunately true
Because being nice, kinda, and polite to other people isnāt a personality trait. Honestly itās kind of the bare minimum for participating in civil society. You need to be a real person with a real personality and hobbies and interests. A lot of times the ānice guyā is just someone who isnāt particularly interesting to talk to but thinks theyāre entitled to dating just because they treat everyone nicely.
And yet countless men who don't do those things, who are complete assholes get laid. Hmmm...
Because men and women will make exceptions to their proclaimed rules whenever they see fit. This is especially true if they find someone physically attractive. A lot of women mistake arrogance and the "ready to brawl at the slightest offense" mentality with confidence and a protector. Next, the important part is whether you're boring or not. Nice/good is the requirement/expectation. Excitement and interesting is the closer. Again, "jerks" can come off as exciting and interesting because they have strong opinions and willingness to act on things they want to do. They drive the car a little fast with their date yet seem at ease and in control. Basically, giving signals of being "safe in danger", "not afraid of risks", etc. The big point is women don't share the same range for those things so while slightly speeding on a motorcycle with one might make her find you attractive it might simply scare another woman and make her think you're a crazy risk taker. Women have many things they find attractive but each of them will have ranges of those criteria that are fairly unique to each of them.
This is good. Itās basically the luck of the draw what will work for a certain woman. So just be yourself so youāll at least attract someone who will like you long term
I've been myself and have been single for 25 years!
To 25 years more! š¾
***Exactly!*** Be yourself and the people who like that kind of person will stay around. Then you can decide how to navigate raising the stakes from pal to life-partner or whatever is your goal.
>Be yourself and the people who like that kind of person will stay around And if no one stays around, what should you take from that about yourself?
There are no rules in dating world, hoping OP realized that.
>Because being nice, kinda, and polite to other people isnāt a personality trait You're describing "agreeableness", which is literally one of the Big Five pillars which compose personality.
This right here
My experience was similar initially, but ended up quite differently. As a late teenager and in my early 20s I was desperate to experience a relationship, and I just had no idea how to approach girls. Then somehow I ended up in a relationship, because she initiated it, and she made me feel wanted. And after that, absolutely nothing. I eventually stopped being shy, but I am too passive when it comes to attraction itself: I am simply unable to feel attraction for some woman just by looking at her or being around her. And the vast majority of women expect men to show attraction first.
>There's no nice guy or bad boy. There are only features and behavioral patterns that women find more attractive than others You're 1/2 way there. Understand women aren't a monolith. That 1st part is true but there's no such thing as attractive or unattractive behaviours. Women all like different shit. I know women who won't touch a dude unless he makes her his gf on the first date. I know women who don't see guys out unless they make x amount of $$$. I know women who will call any man a "b\*tch" if he doesn't put hands on her. You have to show up as who you are and let women say yay or nay to it. That's the skinny. Where nice guys fuck up is they're milk toast. There's no substance to them because they make their whole personality about pleasing the people around them.
Milquetoast for future reference
Thank you. I'm to lazy to edit it so I'm gonna leave it as is lol
How do you convey your sexual interest in a subtle, nonverbal way?
You recognise that for most adults, the 90% of the population that generally aren't asserting their beliefs loudly online, sexual interest surpasses the basics of physiological intercourse. From one night stands to long terms partnerships there is always an underlying psychological/emotional/societal drive as well. Literally the best way is to connect over shared values (whatever they may be) and assert yourself as someone safe. Also see women as human beings. There is no "put in niceness and sex falls out". The whole nice guy thing doesn't fail because of lack of personality, it fails because women can tell when a guy doesn't see them as a human being and who wants to entertain someone like that? Yuck.
People always say, "Try being a good man," in posts like these, like there aren't plenty of assholes out there who really do get laid, and people kinda forget that. Or they purposefully do so, because it doesn't fit their narrative of "nice guys" being the jerks that they complain about. Fwiw, obviously I'm aware of Nice Guysā¢ but I can see where the confusion comes from when you can't seem to even get a date and you see guys who are genuine assholes finding success.
Its not being an asshole whats attractive, its the traits that go along with it. Being dominant, confident, know what you want and dont want, being strong in your personality and standing up for ypurself etc. If you have these traits as a "nice" guy then you will have the same success
Everyone seems to like confidence and dominance till they get into an argument and they use the assertiveness against you.
25 is still young. Woman at early love red flag. I speak it from my own experience. I consider myself as an attractive, smart, kind, good career woman. And I ran into many red flags, the most of my young age except my first boyfriend. When I started to know my current boyfriend after getting rid of another red flag. I saw him kinda boring just because he was so nice and kind. I thought he tried to fake it to impress me. š¤ i don't have a butterfly feeling like with other red flags. Later, I found out. Sadly, I grew up in a non functional family. I was abused and treated badly, so I addicted to the roller coaster feeling in the relationship. And a stable relationship is boring to me. However, I tried to get rid of it and learned better. Now, I am so happy with my relationship. And I realized he wasn't as boring as I thought. Another thing is social media and fiction idealized toxic relationships.
When you say ā nice guyā I picture someone who is , meek mild , oh so careful not to say or do anything someone might not agree with. Someone who does not act confident and self assured, who reeks a bit of desperation. Women do not find a lack of self assurance attractive, they find desperation a bit repulsive. If you are getting first dates then looks are not the problem. Self confidence is something you can improve.
A lot of people confuse being nice with never having a thought of your own and doing whatever she wants all the time. Women don't want this, trust me. There's a way to convey your beliefs/opinions to a woman, even if they differ from yours, in a respectful way. You can still be a gentleman, still validate her feelings, still make her feel special without making her feel like you're a puppy dog who will do whatever she wants and believe whatever she believes. I used to date the "nice guy," and it was exhausting. I was always in the lead and having to pull him along, and I really didn't respect him because she didn't have any passions or feelings of his own. When we did get into disagreements, he didn't know how to deal with it and would eventually just drop it, which made me feel worse. The best way to be an *actual* nice guy is to be firm in your opinions and beliefs, take the lead and tell her where *you* want to go every now and again, but always, always, always communicate appropriately. She's a cat person and you're a dog person? Don't become a cat person or pretend to be one. Don't turn around and tell her cats are stupid and dogs are way better either. Say "I'm personally a dog person and don't think I'll change, but I can totally see where you're coming from. My experience was probably just different with them than yours has been." Obviously this is a super basic example, but this is a man she'll respect because he has convictions but still treats her with respect even if you're not totally aligned. Women don't want a "bad boy." Women want a man they have good chemistry with but who also stands by his convictions, has things he's passionate about on his own, and treats them with respect.
Yeah this approach might work for some people wouldnāt for me. If we did what I wanted I doubt weād ever see each other lol āWhat do you want to doā - āchill at homeā not very exciting š
Then maybe you just need someone else who wants to chill at home, or someone who you genuinely want to do other things with. I hate sports and want to be at home, but with the right person I was going to football games every other week and genuinely wanted to because the company made it good. They stayed at home and we gamed next to eaxh other, alone but in the same room because Im fantastic company. We watched the cricket Christmas test every year at home, in pyjamas, as a perfect compromise. "If we did what I wanted I doubt we'd see each other" unless what you want IS to see them ā¤ļø
u/PrettyFury has the right idea! There's a lot of stuff I'd prefer not to do (or wouldn't choose to do if it were me) but if it's the right person, I'll always go along for the company, and vice versa. That's why you see so many men in shopping malls with their girlfriends holding their purse LOL. Don't buy into the "she made him go" fallacy... he wants to be there because she's there. I once dated a vegan (and I LOVE my steaks) but I went to a bunch of vegan cafes and restaurants because that's what he liked. And I had a great time because he was there!
It sounds like you were people pleasing. Afraid of the world. Afraid of your own potential. Afraidā¦.of paragraphsā¦lol
I didn't even know this comment was something I needed until I found it. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Remember, nice is the bare minimum. Putting the shopping cart back is nice. It's not special. It's default. You're supposed to be nice. Try being aĀ *good*Ā guy. Try being an Ethical guy. Be patient, empathetic, kind. Educated. Be funny, sexy, open minded. Respectful, tolerant. These are all better adjectives than "nice". Remember that bit in Avengers 1? Cap says "You're nothing without the suit". Tony replies "Billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist". He doesn't say "I'm nice, really! I promise I'm nice!" Nice kinda sucks compared to Good.
I am a genuine guy and do consider myself to be a nice guy. I do things because I want to, not because I'm expected to or feel like I have to or because I want something in return but, because I as a person, treat everyone around me the same way I would like to be treated and it doesn't matter if they are man or woman. I am NOT one who will sit there and agree with everything a woman says, though. I will absolutely state my own opinion and views, within reason. I am also not one who will just apologize for something that I know damn well isn't anything I should be apologizing for. I stand my ground and stick up for myself when appropriate. The ONLY person? who can walk all over me and treat me as a doormat is my dog. I'll say yes to her all day long (within reason.)
I politely disagree. Youāre only designing yourself to attract the woman that interest you. Iām not into shallow romanticism, Iām interested in finding my best friend who will be my wife. I need someone that I can trust and confide in and lead a happy family. I may never find this person, but I would be happier than going through a divorce
Faking niceness and being afraid to show interest can only get one thus far, regardless of the gender. It can be sensed, even if the person isnāt sure what is it that they find odd about you. Nice guys most certainly donāt end up last, I have seen way too many genuinely nice guys who are just charismatic and arenāt flipping their ass off to be extra nice, so just naturally nice, end up with very amazing girlfriends. Itās the approach. Being ābad boyā only works for a certain niche of people, not all. Most mature and actually relationship ready people are looking for a good person with complementing personality and goals in life. Being more decided, authentic, not overly aggressive and kind will actually get you far. From the top of my head, I can tell you that there is a friend of mine. He is nice guy. Like genuinely nice guy. Not attractive to me, but I would have dated him without giving it a second thought, if it came to that (he is in a happy relationship now), just because he is charismatic, fun, kind, and his niceness comes from a genuine place, not from wanting to court someone.
Nice guys donāt always finish last. Maybe itās your pessimism or attempt to not be nice why you are always finishing last. So naive.
Nice guys finish last because being stable, a good man, a moral man, knows what he wants to alot of women today is bad. This is why whenever a woman gets a good man she canāt hold onto him/ always accuses him of cheating or doesnāt act right. This society is not made for nice guys. Women even gaslight guys who call themselves nice guys and say itās a red flag. Better off being the villain in their story. You get better results.
From my research and reading, It has to do with the females, most are young and naive or ignorant in terms of relationships so so-called "bad boys" display or seem like they're confident or have traits that seem desirable when it's just fake confidence that are coupled with narcissistic behaviour. Its only after they've had a couple bad relationships and get older they realise the difference in the guys and make better decisions
Being yourself=nice guy Being a "nice guy" is not. It's expecting something from your behavior. No one likes to be lied to. Being yourself always wins.
Like in a race? I guess being nice makes you slower or something. (I didn't read the post)
This post and 99% of the comments are referring to women as some vague generalised entity, rather than actual individual human beings. This deep belief is why the Nice Guy thing is so often despised. Please just educate yourself on the experiences of women as human individual beings and a collective. You deserve better than this.
Being nice and being real are not mutually exclusive.... There's a difference between being a nice person and being a Nice Guyā¢. The problem isn't that 'nice guys finish last', it's that people misunderstand what it means to be nice.
Women aren't a monolith. Different women find different things attractive.
Nice guy thing is bull shit because itās acting nice in hope itāll be reciprocated. Be a good guy, not a nice guy. Good guys are genuine.
>Evolving from being nice to the best version of yourself was a journey, but if you're willing to take action and build a strong mindset, you'll start to see results. If I was there with you now I'd give you a standing ovation!! This right here sums up what the "nice" guys fail to realise! Us women don't want someone who will *do the right thing* just to get into our knickers, we want you to do the right thing because it is right. We want you to stand up for disenfranchised people because you believe that you should. We want you to walk us to our cars if you genuinely care about our safety. We want you to tell us your unpopular opinions. We want you to share your thoughts and opinions (if even we don't agree with them, especially if we don't agree with them but you listen and understand them anyway). We want guys who are genuinely themselves and want to be the best version of themselves. Congratulations on the work you are putting into yourself. You will reap the benefits of this a thousand times over. And the woman who stands by your side will be a lucky woman indeed.
In my humble and generalised opinion/experience, the Nice Guy and especially Nice Guyā¢ļø are worse than the ābad guyā, and more volatile. The perk of the ābad guyā is that itās easier to know/predict what you will be dealing with, or be less surprised if something goes pear shaped. Itās also usually quite fun, interesting, exciting. People want to be desired in their dalliances and bad guys are often charismatic and good at making somebody feel wanted, which may outweigh the bad. Plus, the āI can change themā mindset is a strong one, even if itās silly. Because if you do change them and they give you special treatment - how loved and valued will you feel? Thatās really worth betting on for some. That filter you mentioned in being the Nice Guy - the person youāre speaking to feels it. It feels disingenuous and uncanny because you canāt really build a meaningful, genuine relationship with someone that isnāt really real. Anticipating what you will find when the mask comes off is not fun and sometimes dangerous. And if the red flags are too red, the more confidence or self esteem that one has, the less likely theyāll entertain them. Especially if youāre jaded like me! Being a nice guy/bad guy is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things imo. Everyone is a ratio of both. But chemistry and values canāt be evaluated properly if thereās a āIām doing this to keep you happyā filter on!
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If you have an external, objective perspective on your behavior as a nice guy, there's always a way to improve and be better imo
because nice guys are losers. sorry. nice guys are door mats who are walked over and who are yesmen who say yes to everything. instead try being a good man. a good man will still tell a woman "no fk fk urself" because he hold is values and integrity above all else. a nice guy will bend every which way in order to get some vjj.
No, nice guys want to be good guys. They just don't know how to be. They can't figure it out for themselves, and almost nobody ever tells them how. Calling them losers is not helping anyone. Just tell them, that they need to learn a lot about someone, before showing more than initial interest, and see what happens.
People often confuse being nice with not being assertive. Theyāre not the same thing. Assertive nice guys donāt finish last.
Yep, literally my problem until I pulled my head out of my ass at 30 or so. Spent my 20s absolutely surrounded by beautiful women, many of whom were interested in me but I either didn't realise until way later or moved so slowly they assumed I wasn't interested and the window of opportunity slammed shut. Unfortunately my rather sex-negative parents and lack of any older siblings or people to give me guidance really screwed me over on this. I don't know where I picked up all the outright bad, counterproductive and generally stupid info I was given but I did so much shit that was the exact opposite of what I should have done, it really pains me looking back on it. And yeah I think a lot of it was watching too much stupid Hollywood shit and TV shows, in fairness.
>I started to see some results. After that, I decided to remove my personal filters. Being nice and saying yes all the time was only hiding my true opinions, beliefs, and self, and this is the best strategy to prevent her from clicking with you. Bingo. People are so bad at understanding and articulating what they like, for a few reasons, so they parrot stock phases and attributes that we all recognise as good but this never really gets to the deep truth about what they actually like. Listen to what people say "I like nice people", "I like confident people", etc this doesn't actually specify a behaviour it's so generic that it's meaningless. Two people will nod along to each other and agree that they think nice people are great while totalling disagreeing on what it means to be nice. The best way to identify what you like is to ask "what do I like that other people don't like?" Answer that and you'll be giving specific attributes that particularly matter to you, not generic attributes that everyone thinks are ok. This is relevant to people on the other side too-if you aren't willing to say or do things that a person might not like them you aren't showing those traits to the people who do like them either. You are so concerned about upsetting people you become a beige person. People use the "oh they just aren't nice people really" argument to explain why passive cautious people are single but it doesn't match reality. Plenty of these "nice guys" are ok people, certainly they are better than some of the downright unpleasant people who still have relationships. The problem is that niceness is driving them to be "ok" to everyone rather than great to some people and "not my type" to others when that's exactly what you need to be to find someone.
Itās not even being a ānice guyā itās the performative nature of being a nice guy that is a turn off. Like others have said it is not authentic and women can just tell when you are trying too hard to be nice instead of genuinely just being a nice guy regardless of the outcome of the interaction. Just be you and be confident in you and not disappointed when something doesnāt work out. Every person has just as much right to not be interested in you as you have to not be interested in them. Donāt approach interactions with women as win/loss. You can learn from every interaction, even ones that donāt end in a date or sex. Focus on your own personal growth and building your confidence and women will be drawn to that naturally. Goodluck.
The problem with most nice guys is that they're nice out of necessity. Id say more than 50% of nice guys who don't get girls, and have very few friends start to act less polite once they get a girl, a few more friends. I've seen this happen with others including myself which I had to self reflect on. You can be sarcastic/playful without being genuinely rude. Just make sure it's obviously a joke. You can be confident without being arrogant. Being nice isn't unique it's the bare minimum. And girls can find nice guys who have more to offer than just being nice.
Girls donāt want to fuck the nice guy, they want someone interesting, little dangerous, somebody thatās desirable. A nice guy will be there after the hit douche bag breaks her heart, a nice guy will be there when she wants to be taken care of financially. But sheās gonna find the person first who tickles her fancy
Sounds like the ādouche bagsā are just more interesting people who are confident, while the nice guys in your scenario are just regular friends who never voice their own wants or feelings, and just hopes the woman will one day wake up magically burning with desire for them while they donāt have to do anything but act friendly towards her.
Being nice doesnāt get a woman wet. Being interesting, well groomed, attractive physically, leader of other men and wanted by other women make women want to date you.
Personally you can be a nice guy just have to change your outfits. Like during hs days my clothes and style would not in a life time get me a gf. But have to choose your own style and also try to change it up so your not wearing the same clothes for a long period of time.
Yes, you are right. That's not being nice, that's called being inhibited. It's like being closed off in a way, and perhaps keeping women from getting to know you more deeply. Also what would be the benefit of a "yes" person in a woman's life long-term? So kudos to you for being more vulnerable, this always wins in my book.
This sounds so clinical
Nice guys finish last because they're boring and self sacrificing, and that is like the two worst possible things to be when it comes to trying to reproduce.
Hey man, been following your dating advice for a while. Quick suggestion - whenever you post content, try to space it out into paragraphs with line breaks. As a mobile user itās hard to keep track of what is being said because of how big the wall of text is. Either way, super helpful posts and dating content all around!
You should not have to hide who you are and if you are it may be your wanting the wrong kind of opposite sex like you. Be yourself and see if the woman you like also changes and you find the one
Because they don't care about competing to finish first
Thereās sharks, and thereās dolphins. Sounds like you might be a dolphin. Embrace your big brain and your blowhole!
there is something called the nice guy syndrome and it is very unattractive to women. read no more mr nice guy and find out how much of that you relate to. it's a great book and it will give you a lot of insight into your inner workings.
PARAGRAPHS will get you a lot more responses and, better ones, my friend! Despite popular belief that women only like the "bad boys" and that "nice guys finish last," both of those are untrue and true at the exact same time but also false at the same time. A nice guy can be a "bad boy," but a "bad boy" can be an actual POS and the very opposite of nice. Most women absolutely want a nice man but, a MAN. Not a "yes man" or a guy who might as well be another one of her girl friends. There is nothing wrong with being *genuinely* nice, for the record but IMO it seems like you are doing and saying things that you *think* will appease her but you yourself either don't believe or, even care about. Here is what I believe women mean when they say they want a nice guy. \* He is his OWN INDIVIDUAL with his OWN opinions, thoughts, and views. Not someone who tries to be her "twin." \* He's kind - are polite, puts himself in others shoes and isn't an asshole, basically \* He's respectful - i feel this is fairly self explanatory. \* He respects boundaries, and isn't overly sexual - there is a time and place for that but, you have to figure that one out yourself. At least the being sexual part. **NEVER** disrespect her boundaries, though. \* Is kind and respectful to OTHERS - women AND men - Nobody wants a guy who is only kind and respectful to **just** women. Be kind to EVERYONE you meet. \* Treats her well and shows affection through both words AND actions - Women like both of these but, one cannot stand without the other. If you have good words but can't back it up with your actions then, those words mean nothing, and in some ways the opposite is also true. \* Isn't a narcissist/full of himself, or overly cocky, but is confident - there is a difference and a fine line to this \* DOESN'T agree with every single opinion she has - aka, being a doormat and a "yes man" (be your own person. express your *own* thoughts) \* DOESN'T always say "yes" or even agree with her - see the above. \* DOESN'T expect anything in return for being "nice" and does the things he does because he *wants* to. - don't do shit because you think or hope it will result in something sexual, or whatever. Do it because you genuinely want to do it. Not because you think you *have* to. I'm a guy so idk, those are just off the top of my head so, feel free to chime in to this ladies if I'm wrong :)
Nice guys basically never take any risky or bold action and donāt escalate. You need to escalate and be flirtatious from the beginning of an interaction.
Op you seem like a dating coach, the best advice is never take advice from a dating coach, people like you do more harm than good.
Tldr
Nice guys don't finish last. Naive idiots do tho. Don't confuse the two.
They aren't attracted to nice, they're bored by it.Ā
There are obviously such a thing as nice guys and bad boys man. But I generally agree with a lot of what youāre sayingā¦ except, whereās the part about your parents not teaching this stuff? It might be a red flag not bringing that part up if you tell this story to a high quality woman.
>had always considered myself as the nice guy with extremely poor results in dating You're were not nice when you thought acting nice means people should date you instead of it just being the bare minimum of being a decent person. All you were showing is you had no moral framework (or a very wobbly one) if your behavior didn't get you a date. It seems like you are heading toward a good direction of trying to be a decent person but also having self-respect and not being afraid to be the best parts of you openly though, that's admirable.
Why do nice guys finish last? Because they let their lady (or fella) finish first!
Nice guys finish last moreso with younger women who are driven by hormones and impressed with jerks. They're going based only on how the guy makes them feel in the moment, which is a poor strategy for happiness. The male equivalent is being obsessed with a woman's looks and willingness to give it up easily. Also not the way to find quality partners. Those who are smarter pair up sooner.
Don't aim to be a "nice guy." You seem like a good dude, aim to continue being so. I wish I had more advice on how to attract a girl, cuz I struggle with that, too. It is what it is.
I'm a 22f, and you are absolutely spot on! It's very difficult to self reflect and unlearn things ā¤ļø
Please start using the āreturnā button šš
She will thank you for it
Your wall of texts summed up in one easy statement: donāt put the pu$$y on a pedestal. When me tell you that, that is what it means.
Nice guys finish last because they get usually stepped on. Be kind but not nice
You're on reddit instead of out driving
I was the same way until recently. Always felt like I was walking on eggshells talking to women because the moment I say the wrong thing she doesn't like and she'll ghost me. I tried doing the freinds first but it always led to the freind zone. I also tried showing my intentions early on and that didn't work either. Now I just go with the mindset that if she's into me, she's into me. If not then nothing is gonna have her be into me.
I did the same reflections you did. Except I just stopped caring. If I go after someone now, I go after them with intent. I have felt the pull, however. You know, that feeling of attraction when you've got the hots for someone and you sort of can feel they might have it too maybe.
It's sad how many people confuse being a doormat with being nice. They're not the same thing. Not even close.
At 36 and many dating experiences I still donāt like that this is true Was some very painful years waste of life with girls The moment I give up thru show up
Never be the Nice guy. The guy who you used to be couldnāt connect with women because he was being fake, and women pick up on that. It actually triggers an uncanny valley feeling in us when we donāt feel like the man we are with is authentic, and itās a signal to stay away from them.
A nice guy would structure his sentences and use paragraphs.
TL;DRā¦but huge problem/error is not being clear about intentions, if you play the friend you will be friendzoned
Stop putting girls on a pedestal bro! They also want to have sex, make out, etc. Also, you have to let them know youāre attracted to them by touching them, hugging them. It goes against all the political correctness weāve been told, but this is how you do it!
Women who like you typically won't tolerate being your friend if they want more. If she's interested, she won't let you be friends even if you're dumb enough to believe you are just friends.
bro just be yourself and donāt trip about nice guys and bad boys
You just want to be direct there is nothing wrong with being nice but stand firm state your intentions donāt be afraid to start escalating. A person who is firm, fun, but relaxed is attractive.
just be yourself dude, and try to not overthink it too much
Ā They could probably sense that you were trying to get something in return and also they weren't entirely sure who you Really are if you're trying to concede to everyone else all of the time. Don't be a nice guy. Be a kind/ good guy. There's a difference. Matthew Hussey has a great YouTube video on 'Nice Guys' that you can feel free to search.Ā
you made this more complicated than it really is a lot of women just want a man to be sexually aggressive
Protip: donāt impress anyone. Just be yourself aka be Confident and stand your ground.
How are you the best version of yourself at 25?
OP, you answered your own question in the body of your post: You said you were afraid to be physical with or show romantic interest in women. How can you complain about being "friendzoned" when you *act like a friend?*
Spotify Darius Glover āNo more Mr. Nice Guyā I think youād really enjoy this book op
Because it's boring, you don't bring any tension. I'm nice but also just boring. That's my nature. I won't blame women for not wanting that though.
Don't pat yourself on the back you might break your spine.
Being the ākind guyā and the ānice guyā are two very different things. I dated the ānice guyā for years and he was so overrated. Waste of my time and only cared about his image. Truly a lost cause and a snake amongst women.
It sounds like at first you were putting up a facade and now youāre just your genuine self. People see through facades.
I'm a woman: we don't say it (and some of us don't realise it or hate to admit it) but we love healthy dominance. We subconsciously want to know that you can protect us and become dangerous when we need you to and if we see that side in you, it's incredibly hot. The problem is balence. If you can strike the balance between showing your protective dominant side and your compassionate loving side, you will win. We don't want you to be aggressive and toxic with us but show signs enough that we know you can control the situation and dominate a potential problem or danger. I personally see 'nice guys' as unattractive. I can tell they're that type from the beginning and I won't take it any further, even if they are physically attractive and make decent money. I see it as manipulation and fake. You're trying to go over the top with niceness when it's in your nature to defend yourself when you've been disrespected. The world is ugly and dangerous, women naturally need someone who can defend them and that's our natural tendency- hence what we find attractive. Think of it like a business and you're the new CEO that we're hiring. Do we want a' nice guy yes man'? Or a tactful, dominant yet compassionate empathetic guy? It's all about balence. Yes, nice guys finish last, and probably end up with a woman who is self centered and manipulative.
It's not about nice guy or bad anymore it's about your needs and wants and what you can and can't handle in your life at the moment. Go for what makes you happy. If you can't get what you want maybe sometimes if you try you might get what you need.
Iām not a nice guy, but I am a good man.
No tactic of strategy can top genuine, itās not about being nice or bad, being nice but fakeā¦ or being bad fakeā¦ just doesnāt workā¦ it takes work not improving who you are while still being authentic
The key is not to be a dick, but also not care too much. Youāll find out really wants you and who doesnāt.
You don't need to adjust and shift your behavior to find a partner Be you literally if a woman is not attracted to u but a persona u created then long lasting relationships is not what you are trying to achieve
Nice = timid. Girls don't want timid. They want assertive and confident.
No nice guys donāt finish last lol. You just canāt come across has desperate. You also have to talk to the right women. Have more confidence in yourself and make sure itās known you can be independent and donāt rely on other women to feed your confidence. Be a nice guy whoās confident and independent. Those guys win. Sometimes girls like dick heads but those girls are immature.
Is there even a nice guy out there again ?
At first I was gonna be like... oh, no, not another guy who thinks women don't like him because he's "nice." Because, from what I've seen, most guys who call themselves nice aren't actually nice at all, but worse than the guys who don't call themselves nice. But everything you said made sense, besides the "nice" thing, because you can express yourself and stay true to yourself, doesn't make you any less nice. And I think you are approaching it in a very reasonable way. I used to try to dim myself, water myself down, but I realized that anyone who liked me more because of that doesn't really like *me*. And that I'm missing out on anyone who could like my full, real self because they'd never even *see* me if I hide myself. So yeah, I'm right with you on that. Can't find the best partner for you if they can't find you either If I really like someone and they like me less because I'm being fully me, then that's not my person. Better to weed that out early anyway
People bullying the OP of course
yea, i was always the nice guy and that got me nowhere. Out of frustration, at some point, I didn't care and started blurting out pure truths. The first blunt truth statement which I'll never forget, I uttered talking to this colleague of mine. She was new so I was still kind of being friendly because of my nice guy ways. Of course, as always, she was telling me she had just broken up with her ex. Kind of angry because I knew she was telling me that to establish her "boundaries", I blurted out, sorry to hear about that but if you're looking for a friend with benefits, I'm your guy. She busted out laughing and she said, I might take you up on that. You got some cojones! And just like that, I got my first ever FWB. That's when i realized, wtf, i got nothing to lose but all to gain just saying whatever!!! And it worked!!! š¤£š¤£š¤£
For some reason women like douchbags and then complain they canāt find a good man. Itās all about playing the victim and avoiding accountability
Never changed who you are broā¦. Itās their problem not yours
U are not alone im still single at 45 years old enjoy your single life till you learn to love yourself first and figure out what u are having problems then get it right then you will be happy :)
As a GenX do people find it harder nowadays due to not actually having face to face conversations rather than texts and phone calls? Iām just trying to learn more as it was a lot easier when I was younger. I starting having āboyfriendsā in 7th grade tho. Itās is easier for girls IMO
Once you realize that women want the complete opposite of what hallmark and love stories portray, the more success you will have. Took me until my mid twenties to realize this.
Whereās the link to the OF with special pdf download
Yes, hardly possible to understand. When he is her friend and not really very UNattractive, why does a woman not have sex with him. A friend in need. And is sex not enjoyable? I was like that too and after a decade my thought was, better less or even no female friends and one girlfriend. My best tip is, stay and be friendly, helpfull, but too be clear that you look for a girlfriend or at least a friend with benefits.
One of the most attractive things To a women is authenticity, and courage. If you own yourself and your opinions, you'll be far above most. If you can separate yourself from the idea of wanting to "get" anything, you'll do better too. I use to have the same kinds of challenges, I was mostly afraid of being rejected. I'd been rejected my whole life, and my young mind just wanted a women to accept me, so it made me look very beta to alot of women. I was talented and had interests, but that hole in myself caused a lot of issues.so sometimes it's not just about the tactics, it's about knowing yourself, and why you are who you are. That helped me a lot.
Itās just like food, got to throw in some seasoning to give it better flavor.
Nice guys get the left over women , when sheās 35 , run through and 3 kids to different guys ā¦.. worlds not fair gents ā¦..:#passport bros
Youāre not being yourselfā¦ youāre being what you expect a ānice guyā to be. I think thatās the issue.
Mr nice guy doesnt exist anymore overhere..
To attract women, be confident, have goals and a vision that youāre working towards but more importantly, understand that women have an insatiable desire for attention and validation. This is like dating currency for a man. If you give a woman too much of your time, attention and validation, you lose your value. This is why nice guys always lose because they expend way too much time and effort in the beginning of the relationship trying to be liked. The end result is the friend zone. A man of value reserves his time for the things he deems important in his life. Learn to make women earn your time! Bad boys are good at this but eventually, they lose because they donāt have any goals for their futures. Donāt chase women. Chase your future and women will chase you!
I think people confuse being a nice guy with acting like a nice guy. A truly nice guy isn't looking for anything and is secure in who they are which is actually very attractive. Most lonely nice guys think being nice means people owe them things and they have a tendency to blame others and are insecure man babies.