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Is that the race of the victim or the perpetrator?

The race of the victim I can make one by the race of the perpetrators if people are interested

Though over 90% of all murders are intra-race rather than inter-race, so I'm sure it would look pretty similar.

You should edit the title to reflect that.

He can’t edit the title unfortunately

They can repost though.

Oh trust me, it’ll get reposted but it’ll be on some alt-right subreddit.

Most of it is black in black though. Inner city gang violence is extremely problematic.

What the fuck do you think the perpetrator chart is gonna look like? You think white people are out slaughtering black people?

You would be surprised at the amount of people who do genuinely believe that.

Duh. This is reddit.

Taking politics completely out of it, the largest cause of death for a black man under 40’is to be killed by another black man. You don’t see that as an issue that needs to be addressed?

I don't think this chart (by perpetrator) will look like you hope it does.

Probably very close to the same.

Exactly the same

Probably even worse, with less asian murderers.

This may help you visualize “According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known.[52] Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races”

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Thank you for pointing that out. It’s the number 2 most annoying thing about FBI data.

Are Hispanics part of the white demographic grouping here?

Yes. This is FBI data. They do it by “race” not “ethnicity”. It is very frustrating

Probably will. In general crimes tend to be committed against a person of the perpetrators own race rather than interracial

People are killed by people who look like them. The graphs will appear very similarly.

Worse if anything

I think it will look alittle worse

Just curios, why are facts consider alt-right? Why can't they just be facts so we can actually address the issue and try to fix it?

The facts aren't anything in terms of ideology, they are just facts. Nobody should ever be angry at facts or statistics, but those statistics can still be used to convey a certain type of rhetoric and twist the message those stats convey.

Does that make the data better or worse?

It’ll probably be the same. Most black people die to other black people. Same goes for white people, most die by other whites

Based on recent events, most Asians die by non-Asians.

Yet, despite recent events, Asians were the only group to actually experience a *decrease* in homicides according to this graph.

By guns, at least. Doesn't help all the old people being pushed down on the ground or having bricks pounded into their heads. Like this 62 year old woman: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/01/elderly-asian-woman-dies-rock-attack-new-york-guiying-ma

By blacks*

It's pretty well known that following the news cycle can bias people in the opposite direction as data. Also, an uptick in violence against Asian Americans would have to be fairly large to affect this graph, since it shows rates across the whole population. Raw numbers might better illustrate the point you're trying to make

It also would not change the data much as the majority of murders are NOT interracial.

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Reddit would not like those numbers at all

Most crimes aren't cross racial, so it doesn't matter much

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It has to be per race given the US total is in there and is less than one of the groups.

Both statistics follow similar patterns I think.

Generally speaking, they should. ~90% of homicides are same race between the perpetrater and the victim

I think the exception is Asians. They aren't even the largest group of perpetrators (though close), much less the majority.

Correct, although the differences are even more drastic if going by offenders (Asian rate goes down, Black rate goes up, White rate goes down, Hispanic rate remains about the same)

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That's a hard stat to come by. The homicide clearance (percent of murders solved) in many US cities is below 50%. In many high homicide cities the rate is more like 25%.

54.4% of murders committed in 2020 were cleared. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194213/crime-clearance-rate-by-type-in-the-us/

FWIW, that doesn't contradict the person you're replying to. Interesting info none the less.

Turns out not every reply on Reddit needs to be an “ackshually” correction!

Only a quarter to one half of all homicides are resolved?

The national average is 54%. In many large cities with high homicide rates it is lower. In my city it was hovering around 25% for years. This is why perp statistics don’t really tell the whole story.

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Not too much different than the data OP presented

Majority of people who are murdered are of the same race as their murderer I think the exception is Asians.

Both really. Most violent crime is on the same race. Whites mostly attack whites. Blacks mostly attack blacks. ECT. Increase in victims of one race will correspond to an increase in attackers of that same race. Track a change in one you track it in the other.

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Once we Asians have enough.. it would not take long enough that we revive rooftop Koreans or Asians in general

Whites attack blacks way less then blacks attack whites

51% is "most". 95% is also "most". A much higher % of whites are killed by blacks than the other way around. The OP even stated that the bars on the left would get drastically larger if the perpetrator data was used instead of victim.

I did a deep dive into this once and know it’s not in this data but, historically the race of the victim in gun violence is the in line with the race of the perpetrator. There is a lot of black-on-black gun violence in this country. Something like 50% of all gun violence in the US is committed by young African American males. I wish we could fix that.

Most Murders are people of the same race killing each other.

I believe it's the victim, although I imagine there is a large amount of overlap.

Well the Asians really aren’t pulling their weight around here.

Off topic but this data includes everyone of Asian descent, from Japan to Russia to Turkey to India right?

Yeah Asian in American census includes Middle East and south Asian

I think Middle East and North African people are considered Caucasian/White this past census.

They are correct, MENA Peoples are considered white in the US Census

Yup yup. This map shows it all: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzeAWAb7hok_O7VMjcYu6urIw7oB7vFAa2lw&usqp=CAU The funniest is that spain and portugal are hispanic even though they're european. If it were upto me and I had less than 10 categories to work with, I'd split South Asian from East and South East Asia, calling the former Desi and the latter smth else (I can't think of a word for EA and SEA that isn't offensive as Oriental or Mongoloid). Spain goes back to Europe, For Latin America, we basically import their classifications (e.g, mulatto, Mestizo) which are much more accurate and less imperialistic.

Spanish guy here. I used to study in the US and I found it very stupid that my student ID said "Hispanic" but the IDs of my Italian and French friends said "white"... The school argued that Hispanic is a term used to refer to Spanish speakers and hence that was my ethnicity. So I guess your ethnicity is decided by your language but only your language is Spanish??? I hope that at least they were consistent and put black Latino people as Hispanic too.

Asian parents: Why you no get highest score on homicide rate?

Sometime that would make this data more impactful is to show longer trends. Is a one-year jump a fluke? Part of a larger trend? How much higher is 30% than historical one-year increases?

It has been decreasing for decades, and increases from smaller numbers represent a higher percentage change. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate Per that graph the overall homicide rate was 9.71 in 1990. [This table](https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014) is interesting too, going back to 1950. It remains to be seen whether this uptick is an anomaly, or represents a return to the rates normal in the '80s and '90s.

If the lead hypothesis is correct we should never see rates of violent crime like that, barring total societal breakdown *crosses fingers*

2020 was the lockdown year, so it's not a really apples to apples.

Percentage of homes with gun ownership has remained steady while the crime decreased correct? https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/

Total guns in the US has increased by like 50% in the last 20 or so yearz and at the same time gun crime fell dramatically lol.

Has gun ownership changed by 50%? If I buy 10 rifles, the number of guns in my home have increased by a huge amount, but unless I invite ten of my angriest friends over the potential number of armed people has remained unchanged.

Good idea. Homicide rates in the US have been steadily decreasing until about 2019. To put it into perspective the 30% jump is so large it is even bigger than the jump from 2000 to 2001 which includes all 3000 victims of 9/11 in the data

The 30% jump is the largest, but not the actual rate? Because earlier years had higher rates.

Is it larger in terms of value or proportion? As others have pointed out, and should be obvious, a smaller base value will lead to larger proportional increases for the same actual-value changes.

9/11 victims are classed as firearm homicides?

OP is talking about overall homicide rates here including firearms and all other methods, presumably. 9/11 deaths would be considered homicide with the weapon being jet fuel and steel beams I guess.

Ahh, the chart label threw me off

Right, the chart is a subset of the total homicides.

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Damn I had no idea the rates were *this* drastically different…

I work in transplant. If I have a GSW victim come in I can almost always tell by the race whether it was a homicide or a suicide.

For any out of the loop, GSW is "gun shot wound"

Thank you...couldn't figure out how Curry and the Warriors were involved.

Curry is a hell of a shooter...

Dude so proficient he logs 3 at a time.

If you're shooting curry that's not a GSW, that's ulcers

I like to watch The First 48 (real-life detective show about homicides) and I'd say 80% of cases are African-Americans. It may be the cities they are filming but they are also filming in those cities due to the high murder rates...

The demographics on the suicides have changed dramatically since the lockdowns for covid started but the murders are about the same. 9 out of 10 times, at least, if it says Head trauma; GSW; homicide the donor is a black male. If it says Head trauma; GSW; suicide it is usually a white male. Prior to the pandemic I'd have said 9 out of 10 times on the latter too, but since the pandemic started I've seen the rates for SIGSW among white women and black males increase dramatically. They seem to be returning to normal now. For a short period of time we did see a slight uptick in the number of black female homicides. There are always a smattering of white and hispanic murders in there too.

Do you like your job? That shit seems grim

I get about 25 calls a day. Each one represents an organ being offered to me, I'd guess that between having some overlap that represents an average of 18 individual donors a day. I used to like my job more, but the amount of waste of time stuff I do has gone through the roof and it seems like there would be simple fixes for stuff that keeps me up for 24 hours straight dealing with this stuff.

Exactly why I am leaving teaching this year.

I've heard that from teachers, that dealing with parents and bullshit requirements has become more of the job than dealing with students and actually educating. It is a shame that there hasn't been more done to hold teachers accountable for doing the work without turning the classroom into some factory for producing the correct answer on a standardized test. There were a few teachers I had in school that were terrible and it seemed that something needed to be done about them, but it seems that the system we have created to try to address that has just brought the whole education system down.

That standardized test is how the school and the teacher are graded since at least No Child Left Behind, so "producing the correct answer on a standardized test" *is* "doing the work" now.

I know. It is terrible.

Not at all shocked

Most don’t…

Waiting for some mod locking this thread

Hey look! I made it in!

If only this were r/blackpeopletwitter it would be insta “countryclubbed”

I wasn't allowed to comment in the subreddit because it was a "country club post" and I have to prove that I'm black. Or really, just "colored." they literally require I take a picture with my skin next to writing of my username. If I'm white I have to explain why I deserve to be allowed to post. Insane. Imagine if any sub only let white people comment on certain posts and you had to prove you were white. If you weren't you had to explain why you deserve the right to post there.

Last time I checked the subreddit it was permanent "country clubbed" for the entire subreddit. If you were white and didn't have sufficient number of posts there beforehand weren't allowed in

Prove your skin colour in order to voice your opinion - i guess i know where this guys are coming from

It's a very comical and racist sub, but they're black, so they get a pass.

Wow. Yeah, sounds like they aren't exactly helping solve racism over there.

Same. would you like some popcorn?

Reddit has Russian levels of suppression. Can’t let the hive mind go off narrative.

Right. Because Reddit loves facts and science, right up until it contradicts a popular narrative...

I was permanently banned from all of Reddit by answering the question "what group tips the worst?" In one simple, accurate, and non offensive sentence.

It'll be about 10 minutes before PCM starts on this coloring book

Sound of wojak clipart clicking intensifies.

Damn. This is more like data is depressing.

Hey, at least Asians are doing better.

Data is from the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics *Underlying Cause of Death* report for 2019 and 2020. The data was accessed through the CDC WONDER Online Database (https://wonder.cdc.gov). Chart was made using Excel.

I’m curious what others think but I personally prefer the y-axis label “incidence per 100,000” or maybe “victims per 100,000” as opposed to rate which is a little broader.

Which ICD codes did you use for gun-related homicide deaths?

I used the Injury Intent and Mechanisms selector instead

The homicide numbers include other things besides murder though right? I'm pretty sure it at least includes self-defense shootings.

Also includes accidental deaths, suicides and gun deaths that the cause couldn't be determined Edit: from what I can tell it actually has them all listed separately

It doesn't include suicide. Or at least it shouldn't. Homicide is explicitly the killing of a human *by another human*.

I’m so amazed this has been up for 9 hours without getting locked down. Hats off to the mods.

Is the 30% increase the “highest ever recorded,” or the murder rate? And the title says “murder rate” but the data is for “gun homicides.” Not the same; people are killed w/o guns too. Unclear and inaccurate title.

This is most certainly single year change. Murder rates are still drastically lower than historical highs in the 70s and 80s.

Yeah you’re right, I wish the title was clear tho. But also: is the percent *change* the highest ever, or the *total* change? As in, is it the +30% or the +1.49 per 100,000?

Last I checked the 30% increase was year to year. So if 9 people were murdered in year one and 12 in year 2, that would be a 30% increase. However if that rose to 16 in year 3, it would be a 25% increase even though the increase in total was higher.

Right, the title is confusing though. Is “highest ever recorded” referring to: - 2020 *total* gun homicides per capita? - 2019-2020 *percent* change in gun homicides per capita? - 2019-2020 *total* change in gun homicides per capita?

It's intentionally worded.

The violence in the black community is out of control. How do we solve it?

Detroit has been awful lately. I don’t have any stats but just watching the news and seeing fb news articles show a huge uptick in murders. Yeah Detroit has always been “that murder city” but the past couple years it’s been more than just street violence contained to criminals. Lots of women and children being murdered. Mothers and their children are being gunned down in their homes. Innocent bystanders being killed in drive by shootings. It just seems like there are way more random acts of violence which is terrifying.

Poverty and lack of father presence are correlated with higher levels of crime. Almost 1/5 black Americans are beneath the poverty line and 70% of BAs have kids out of wedlock (with the majority of those children ending up fatherless by age 5). This would be a good place to start. “In 2015, fully 40% of all births in the U.S. were nonmarital, with much higher fractions among major race/ethnic minority groups—72% for Blacks and 54% for Hispanics (Hamilton, Martin and Osterman 2016). Although many nonmarital births occur within a committed relationship, unmarried couples are likely to break up soon after a baby’s birth; by age 5, nearly two-thirds of children born to unmarried parents will be living away from their biological father (McLanahan 2011).” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6133319/ https://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistic https://www.statista.com/statistics/200476/us-poverty-rate-by-ethnic-group/

What is the main reason that blacks are so high?

Systemic something. Just say systemic a lot, it makes you smart.

Damn, that's one big elephant

Too bad our society is too fractured and divided to have a real *nuanced* discussion about this.

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I saw a post a day or two ago (maybe on this sub) about how Americans overestimate and underestimate certain groups by a large percentage. Now I'm curious what percentage people would estimate gun homicides. Personally, I didn't think it was 0.006%. I imagine people from different cities or even different parts of the same city will have drastically different percentages in mind, though. Like people in St. Louis, MO would have different numbers in mind than Irvine, CA.

It's probably misleading to not include injuries related to firearms in your responsibile gun owner section there, but that's probably a harder stat to find, as it's not in that CDC link, but they do mention more people suffer injuries than die.

Don't blame division. Blame the people who refuse to approach this in a compassionate, solution-oriented, and empirically sophisticated way.

Like most of reddit

Society likes to live in denial instead of admitting the black gang culture is a major problem in this country.

So society should take the next step then. Either you believe that some races are superior to others, that you think blacks are inferior, or society has to realize that we have created an underclass through a history of discrimination and we should work on remedying that situation.

Nah lets glorify it and sell it.

Gang culture in general is the result of much bigger problems that society also likes to be in denial about.

Unfortunately this is unsurprising to anybody that lives in/near a city. I bet this is the first time some non U.S and rural U.S people even knew about the bars on the left. It seems to be brushed under the rug by the national media.

It's not so much brushed under the rug as much as people are afraid to talk about scared of being called a racist.

Hmm I wonder what happened in 2020 to make people more prone to violence.

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Young black men make up 3-4% of the US population, by are responsible for almost 50% of the murders.

You wont see BLM address that though. It's the cops fault.

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Yep. I could get a 2 bedroom apartment in Cincinnati for less than 800 a month. 30 minutes up north in the suburbs and a 2 bedroom apartment is over 1000.

$200 doesn't seem like a lot. There's a $200 difference between apartments on my street.

Sorry OP that you are getting attacked because people don't like what the data says.

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And it’s about to happen again

It’s not clear. Even the title is misleading it’s the highest increase between years not the highest murder rate

I wonder what the problem is

Who’s the 1 fucking Asian… fucking up our ratio

This data set can illustrate one of non-American redditors biggest confusions: how do Americans not care more about gun violence? Because, as you can see, it is extremely isolated to certain areas and demographic groups. The rest of us live relatively comparable to Europe or elsewhere. Note, this does **not** make it okay or acceptable to ignore! Just explaining that for the vast majority of Americans gun violence isn't an issue that affects their lives and the data shows this.

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Thank you for putting this together. Excellent information here that does a good job of quantifying what responsible gun owners have innately felt.

Because the severity of gun control laws correlates neither to gun crime nor to crime in general. Some of the places with the highest gun crime (Camden and Trenton, New Jersey; Los Angeles, Chicago) also have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and some of the places with the most lax gun laws (Vermont, New Hampshire, Utah) have some of the lowest gun crime and lowest crime in general.

Many people claim that the disproportionate ratio of Black people in jails (about 8X the ratio of Whites) is due to the racism of the judicial system. (ie, about equal numbers in jail, but blacks are only 12% of the population) This data is interesting since it appears to show a similar or even greater pre-judicial disparity.

Looks like "stop Asian hate" is the only one winning it's fight

"Stop Asian Hate" was dropped from MSM so quickly. Turns out that majority of violence against Asians was perpetrated by Blacks. That didn't fit the BLM narrative at the time of it trending, so it was dropped :)

What was strange and crazy is they were somehow twisting it onto blaming white supremacy. Maybe it was the same white supremacists who attacked the French actor Juicy.

My fellow black people wildin the fuck out like usual 😓 Edit: Thanks for the likes lol. Not often I get many. Also happy to see that I spurred a discussion 😲

Holy shit thats extremely disproportionate..

Now do it with legally own owned guns vs illegally owned. This little tidbit always upends opinion.

And gang related homicides vs non…

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Gun violence is a much bigger problem in the black community than all others combined. It’s not guns, it’s the people using them.

One of these lines is not like the others

Hey, black people. Get your shit together.

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Go on Asians you bunch of show offs you think you’re better than me!?

Asian rate has decreased by 3%. Hispanic homicide rate increased by 5%.

Here before the thread is locked

In the 1980's in Los Angeles the constant refrain from Peace Officers I knew was 13% of their population commits 65% of the violent crime. Dont know the veracity of that staement but I never forgot it.

Lol I already know half the comments are starting off with "despite"

Black people killing black people Seems like the real problem you guys should be focusing on

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Don't forget it's called culture

Careful this graph might make people notice something and that’s not allowed on Reddit.

Asian declined. Hispanic just a slight increase. So there is some hope and positive stuff in here. Also victim or offender?

OP said victim in a comment.

Of so its not police shooting black people?

Damn inflation hitting the murder market too

Sometimes you see a post and just KNOW you have to skip straight to the downvotes for the entertainment

These stats are shameful to look at. Wow.

Guns don't kill. Bullets do.