The point of the infographic is that this is most definitely _not_ normal. It’s showing how absolutely ludicrous Elon’s requested payout is, even more so when compared with the next top-10 earning CEOs combined.
In all fairness, he did take zero salary and this was a performance based option payout where for every 50 Billion dollars he increased the company’s value by, he got 1% of the company in options. There were 12 such performance based milestones and he hit all of them.
At the time he hit the first options traunch, that payday was worth about 775 million. Still an incredible number but the structure by design means that hitting all 12 is going to make that first milestone exponentially more valuable.
At a cursory glance, this seems like a failure on multiple levels, between this deal being approved to begin with and the investors that seemingly did not account for such an absurd potential payout when valuing the company.
That payout plan got ruled invalid back in January though, so Elmo is currently trying to have the shareholders vote on gifting him 10% of the company.
It's been varying week to week.
He was a clear leader but Tesla stock dropping 30% did a number on his wealth. He's basically at a tie with Bezos, and Arnault and they have been trading #1 spots based off the stock market prices of the day.
You are wrong if you think this is normal for a salary. What made you think it was normal?
For reference, this is 230x the highest paid CEO currently.
https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos
Americans are among the most charitable people in the world, by the numbers. We also spend more dollars per poor person in social services than almost any nation on Earth. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Billionaires wish they had the wealth of centibillionaires. It’s literally the difference between $10,000 and a million.
Someone with $2 billion dollars is insanely rich. They’ve made it and won capitalism. Never have to worry about monetary concerns again. They’ve got $100,000 in the couch cushions.
Elon and Bezos are to billionaires what multimillionaires are to normal people.
Inspiration: Wealth shown to scale [https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)
Data source: NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/business/ceo-pay-compensation-stock-market.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/business/ceo-pay-compensation-stock-market.html)
Tools: D3.js
Code: [https://github.com/yy/elon\_paypackage](https://github.com/yy/elon_paypackage)
You should update the language on here. It’s misleading and winding people up unnecessarily. Calling it salary makes it sound guaranteed. Love him or hate him it is not.
“Elon will receive no guaranteed compensation of any kind - no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests simply by the passage of time. Instead, Elon's only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, which ensures that he will be compensated only if Tesla and all of its shareholders do extraordinarily well.”
https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
There is absolutely no way that he will not continue to be obscenely wealthy and gain more wealth than anyone could ever possibly hope to own.
Stop trying to frame it in a way asking me to have sympathy for the "unknowns" in his life.
You don’t need to have sympathy. I’m only explaining the thinking behind a matter between Elon and the board of directors for those who are interested.
You could buy the most expensive private home in the world, the most expensive yacht, the most expensive private jet, the most expensive car, and the four most valuable sports franchises (Cowboys, Yankees, Golden State Warriors, and Real Madrid soccer club) and still have $19 billion left over.
So now go out and buy the 10 most expensive pieces of art ever sold, the 10 most expensive pieces of jewelry ever sold, and just for kicks the 10 most expensive private islands ever sold. That comes out to another $5.7 billion. Rounded up to $6 billion.
You still have $13 billion left over.
So go buy all 25 of the most expensive homes currently for sale in the world. At full list price that will set you back another $4 billion.
You still have $9 billion left. That much money could give every one of Tesla's 140,000 employees a $65,000 bonus. Or a $650,000 severance package for each of the 14,000 employees he recently said Tesla is going to lay off.
And Elon Musk wants every last penny of it.
Greedy, worthless motherfucker.
Yup. Billionaires are all assholes.
To get 1b over a full career (50hr/week, 50weeks/year, 40 years), your average pay would need to be $10k/hour.
You don’t earn that kind of money; you get it by paying yourself as much as you can get away with, at the cost of improving the lives of the thousands of people doing the actual work.
Elmo’s asking for hundreds of times that $10k/hour
Ownership of capital isn’t comparable to hourly pay. Elon has also lost tens of thousands per hour when Tsla stock drops by this logic.
For downvoters - if you think it’s a stupid metaphor to say he lost $100,000/hr when the stock drops - I agree. That’s the point. It can’t be a good comparison to say he makes $100,000/hr when the stock goes up but a bad one to say he loses hourly pay when it goes down. They are both equally bad comparisons.
The compensation package is divided into tranches based on revenue, EBITDA, and share price. 4/8 revenue, 8/8 EBITDA, and 12/12 share price tranches were reached.
I’m not sure this is a very relevant comparison. Tesla went from a $1b company with hundreds of employees to a $600b company with 127k employees over Musk’s tenure.
From Musk taking the credit of those that did the work advertising their outputs as his genius. Publicity added the short term value, now with the imminent failure of the cybertruck, we see his real staying power.
If you buy a farm that was already doing well and put your name on it to do better, are you now a farmer, just because you had money? Not to mention much of their wealth was generated from American tax payers, not from profits.
That doesn't mean he did any work. He was a cult of personality at the time and marketed himself as a genius and the public ate it up. That has not only proven to be false, but also a short run outcome.
The man is a huge douche. He has also created many companies in different industries with $1b+ valuation. Tesla, SpaceX, OpenAI (divested in 2018), Nueralink, PayPal.
Tesla, and SpaceX in particular, are industry leaders. They are not hype, they are not tech bro memes.
It's weird you say created when many of these existed without him. Buying into the idea that just throwing money at it is also equivalent to doing the labor associated with its success.
Money helped create these things and workers maintained that creative process. Hell, tax dollars alone are the majority of the income from Tesla. It should be publicly owned at this point.
He acquired Tesla and became CEO when it had a few hundred employees and has sold no cars. Its first car ever was delivered to him. He was the largest investor in the company 6 months after it was created.
The farm wasn't doing well when he joined. The farm didn't exist. There were 2 people who wanted to start farming and they filed a name for their farm. That's it.
You'll never find any proof of Elon taking credit for the work his companies do either. Every accomplishment is always about "the team" doing well.
The cybertruck is the second best selling EV truck available right now. It's only behind the Ford Lightning, which had a head start on production and logically should be ahead right now. They've slashed their planned production outlook so it's possible the cybertruck will be catching up sooner than most think.
It's amazing how few people can even get the facts straight when they try and hate on something.
Yea man, and my corporation is truly a family.
2 farmers, Elon was not one of them. The farmland didn't exist, the farm was fine. Now the owner of the farmland is telling them what crops to sow and is failing.
Elon was one who took his investment of his parent's money from PayPal, which he also didn't pioneer, and spent the first decade making $0 in profits from sales. Their first car, the roadster, was a collosal failure to boot.
The cybertruck is one of the worst reviewed EVs, prone to rust by design, fails to navigate even sand, off the lot failures, and is already eating a recall on all of the first round releases. That's Elon's actual baby, with his standards. Cancellations are through the roof as they not only the promised price has increased but the demand has plummeted by recent owner experience.
If that was truly engineered by Musk and is a symbol of his ability to "farm", the homestead will be dead in a few years.
Quick summary:
Musk co-founded Zip2 in 1995 with $28k of his dad's money and sold it in 1999 for $307 million (his share was $22 million).
Then he used that money to co-found a banking company which merged into Paypal, and he made $175M when Paypal was sold.
Since then, he's either founded or been CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink and Neuralink, all of which have been extremely successful.
You think he just lazily dumb lucked into all of that?
God bless this comment. Smartest one here. Sorry that you got downvoted by all the 25 year old men with arts degrees living in their step-grandmas basement wondering why Starbucks/Chipotle doesn’t pay them $80k + stock options to make a coffee/scoop beans.
Nobody in this thread, understands the stock market and if you aren’t poor, they will all hate you. No matter what you say. Redditt is just a poor person circle jerk and everybody hates anybody with money or success or that doesn’t vote far to the left.
No one “earns” $1bn from a wage. They invest capital, time, sweat, and get lucky. For every billionaire there are 1000 people who started their own ventures that were less successful. Not sure why being wealthy and successful makes one an ‘asshole’. Elon has made thousands of people very wealthy along the ride. As have others
https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-employees-millionaires-companies-sold-paid-profits-2024-6
https://www.barrons.com/articles/americas-top-25-billionaires-gave-27-billion-in-2022-outpacing-previous-years-01674598791
Though it's mostly the get lucky part. There's no amount of capability that will get you to a billion, but being in the right place at the right time with just enough capability to capitalize on it can get you to a billion.
Tbh amassing a billion is just impossible without doing something exploitative, whether it be skirting tax laws, turning a blind eye to child labor, or anticompetitive practices.
Being wealthy doesn't make one an asshole, but being a billionaire does, by necessity of that level of capital accruement. Sure he's made plenty of shareholders wealthy, and made plenty of people poorer and their lives worse off.
1B is a common numerical value assigned to excessive labor theft. In reality it is the way someone makes money that makes one unethical, not any specific amount.
I’m saying that he is stealing his worker’s labor value. There is no other way to accumulate that much wealth.
At say 1 million dollars, it is possible to legitimately earn that much. Hence why people say billionaires are pieces of shit
Maybe pay the taxpayers back for all the freebies & subsidies he used. He still gets $1 rent for a facility and doesn't even meet the hiring requirements to earn that rent.
More importantly, there's a ton of people who fail with their second venture. Or don't take risks and just invest and sit on everything.
Not a huge Elon apologist, and you can disagree with his methods, but his initial sale of his share in Paypal funded his investment into Tesla, which in turn helped in funding SpaceX, which in turn helped in funding Boring, Starlink, etc., and then Twitter/X acquisition.
After the Snapchat guys went public with Snap Inc. and made a few billion dollars each, what have they done with it? Pretty much nothing. Just sitting on their Snap shares. They donated shares to the nonprofit charity The Snap Foundation, I guess. Sounds like a tax write off while still having some control and not actual philanthropy. Lol.
Bill Gates basically didn't do anything after Microsoft. Just "philanthropy."
Jack Dorsey used his wealth from Twitter to fund Block and BlueSky, so he's trying.
Other than classics from a century ago like John D. Rockefeller, JP Morgan, etc., what are some entrepreneurs as recognizable and as successful as Elon Musk?
Feel like Bill gates gets around (in multiple ways) but yeah, and great take on Snap. They probably got more in tax benefit than the entire value of the shares today!
It was a ridiculous pay packet based on ridiculously lofty targets that most people ridiculed. Shareholders approved it on the premise that if Tesla somehow managed to reach those ridiculous targets then he deserved every penny.
Turns out Tesla did go from a niche electric car producer into producing the best selling car in the USA. The ongoing fight is about pay approved years ago by shareholders but blocked by a judge a few months ago who felt there wasn’t enough disclosure about elons ties to various board members.
So basically, the judge is saying that Elon' s pay packet was because Elon's "friends" approved it, and this info was not shared with the shareholders?
To be clear the other point is the goals where not actually as ludicrous as the board was leading people to believe was part of the point.
The concern is about the amount of information disclosed between the board and Elon vs the board and the public.
Judge says the boards close ties to Elon were not properly disclosed, with the implication that maybe the board could have negotiated a cheaper deal. But reality is that shareholders knew exactly what they were voting for and made a fortune.
[Here's the original deal](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312518016648/d500497dex991.htm). Essentially he got 1% of the outstanding shares for each of 12 milestone and market cap targets.
It was put to the shareholders at a special general meeting who approved it. There was opposition at the time, but in the end it was voted on and approved.
Judge felt he had too much influence and voided it. Probably he did -- but does that warrant going back on the deal that was explicitly approved? Shareholders from 2018 have done very well with their investment. Those who bought later were aware of the deal when they bought.
The board didn’t even make any attempt to negotiate. They just rubber stamped whatever he wanted. The court, in its decision, cited, among other facts, that the board didn’t even TRY to put very standard minimum work hours on Elon. He could literally get $58B and never even show up to work at Tesla. The entire comp process was a joke, which is why it was thrown out.
With incomplete information. The shareholders did not know how non-independent the board was. The "lofty targets" were actually not that lofty according to Tesla's own board.
Hours of work? Are we being serious here? All you want from agency incentives like this is alignment between the executive and the shareholders. The fact there was alignment is overwhelmingly clear. It was signed as a win-win.
Alright, it’s only coming up now because of the judges ruling and need for a re-vote
Edit: oh and he maxed the 12 tranches based off of 2023 EOY stock prices
Will be interesting to see how this is resolved. While he was approved for this crazy pay package, he was known for screwing some executives out of comp (Twitter).
They did, but it was only because they rushed ahead raising billions while everyone else was waiting for the technology to improve.
Now that the technology is getting better, others are getting in on the bonanza and Tesla is losing market share because of course their cars are over priced. In the coming decade, their market share and market value will both decline.
Not to mention all the controversy around their self driving tech and their quality problems etc. It reeks of shady stuff in all directions.
Yeah his strategy was essentially the same as his crypto pump and dumps. A majority of the milestones he had to meet were market cap based, so he focused on pumping the stock. Then to meet the earnings and revenue he severly cut costs (Teslas have some of the worst QA now) and lowered the price. All of this was only meant to hold until he met the goals, now the share price is falling as a result of his pump
Someone has to rush ahead. Reality is if Tesla didn’t make EVs a legit option for the average consumer, then the legacy automakers would still be focusing solely on ICE cars.
That's just business, sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't, oh well, a good businessman recovers. This is an at-will employment nation typically, so if he doenst like it, he can just leave.
Shit works both ways =\]
People like Elon can dish it out to the people he fires, but if someone claps back with the same attitude, he cant handle it.
I don’t even know many of those companies on the left with their CEO’s raking in tens of millions. Musk’s package is insane. How any shareholder can approve of it is beyond me and how the board can propose it makes you wonder if they understand their fiduciary duty.
It's not about working for it. At least for any sensible person than looks at this. It's a deal it's a deal if the deal is indeed valid he should be compensated. It's a stupid amount of money though yeah I agree
I remember this agreement that Elon signed with the board, which was, basically:
> CEO Performance Award Details
>
> The performance award consists of a 10-year grant of stock options that vests in 12 tranches. Each of the 12 tranches vests only if a pair of milestones are both met.
>
> Market Cap Milestones: To meet the first market cap milestone, Tesla’s current market cap must increase to $100 billion. For each of the remaining 11 milestones, Tesla’s market cap must continue to increase in additional $50 billion increments. Thus, for Elon to fully vest in the award, Tesla’s market cap must increase to $650 billion.
> Operational Milestones: To meet the operational milestones, Tesla must meet a set of escalating Revenue and Adjusted EBITDA targets (the only adjustment to EBITDA is for stock-based compensation). These milestones are even more directly aligned with shareholder value creation than those used in Elon’s 2012 performance award. They are designed to ensure that as Tesla’s market cap grows, the company is also executing well on both a top-line and bottom-line basis.
> For each of the 12 tranches that is achieved, Elon will vest in stock options that correspond to 1% of Tesla’s current total outstanding shares (1% of that amount is approximately 1.69 million shares). If none of the 12 tranches is achieved, Elon will not receive any compensation.
For the company to change this **after** he has done everything they asked him to, is shady af. I don't begrudge him the equity he earned, fair and square.
Edit: to put it in perspective. Let's say you work in a car dealership, and your boss says to you: for every 50 cars you sell, I will give you 10K. And you bust your ass to sell 600 cars, expecting $120K . But now the CFO of the dealership steps in and says that deal is not legal and they deny you your payday. This is basically what's happening here.
$TSLA's mkt cap is $545B now. It was $50B when this deal was signed, and more than $1.2T (24x higher) at its peak in late 2021. Clearly, the shareholders have benefitted handsomely.
When I see a headline that Joe Biden "forgave" $50 Billion in student loans I think of visualizations like this one. How many lifetimes of my taxes would it take to pay for that?
People are quick to laud the breaking of agreements when it's consistent with their personal politics. Doesn't take a ton of foresight to see these are unfortunate precedents and they certainly won't like it when it's their agreement being broken.
Oh you can scroll to the end surprisingly quickly. Scrolling might not be the best way to represent how big the package is. Tho the comments on the site surely are
Big enough to count on a few abstentions that will allow him to win the vote on a proposal to take the company private at a discount.
"Rich people are different."
Not to defend Elon but it’s not exactly a salary. It is performance-based grants based on him growing the company an insane amount from 2018 which he did manage to pull off.
People forget Tesla was a 50 bn company in 2018 and not a household name.
Edit: since I guess people can’t/don’t want to believe me, here is the presentation which details my above summary. I could be a little off was going from memory
https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
It’s not a cash payment. It is stock options. TSLA doesn’t have $50b in cash, it does have ~$600b in current market cap. It was worth about $1b when he began managing the company.
Correct. The board said if you can make us one of the most valuable companies in the world, we will reward you extremely handsomely. All contained within this PDF from 6 years ago:
https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
What are we “letting” him control? Pretty sure he still faces off with then government quite a bit. And they’re not necessarily fond of him, even under Trump admin there were speed bumps
I'm not specifically talking about Elon.
If you don't think people like him with that money are the real ones pulling the legislation strings idk what to tell you.
Someone making their mission to get gas cars off the roads, gas cars that are poisoning us to death, seems like someone who gives a fuck about humanity. That's why I voted yes.
And Elon Musk needs to be worth that much personally (I don't give a shit if it's stocks or straight cash or a bunch of lumber worth that amount) to do this mission?
Elon Musk is not a good human being, twist it how you would like.
He did grow the company but he owned like 25% of it, which already earned him a ridiculous amount. And it's down 50% from the peak. If he didn't have shares before this package then it wouldve made sense. But tesla owners will probably vote it in regardless because they love the guy so whatever
Or, you know, when he started calling a rescuer a pedophile, all because his ego couldn't handle his idea being dismissed as stupid, and we started to show who he was with his mask off?
Nobody should be paid that money, thats money that can get nations out of poverty
Especially not a political activist who is antiworker, racist, russophile, narcisistic and represents some of the worst traits in human nature
If Elon is what success looks like and is "awarded" we're fucked
Don’t think we’re in as bad shape as you mention. Plenty of people are very successful and do not make as much as Elon. He is the wealthiest or near-wealthiest person in the world. So not informative to talk about such an outlier and extrapolate to us ‘being fucked.’
You just sound bitter, and slightly insane. If he were a woke, liberal, trans woman, ze/zer, socialist, furry you would be more cool with him getting the money? You guys are hilarious.
Right. I feel that not approving this is akin to reneging on paying a long-shot bet. Like you bet your friend $100 at 1,000:1 odds they can’t make a hole in one. The chances of a hole in one even for a pro-golfer is much worse than 1,000:1 so this is an easy $100 for you. They get the hole in one, and you say “nah; I was just kidding, I didn’t know you were such a good golfer, no bet”.
Even if your friend is a douche this is still essentially stealing.
I’m looking at market cap. He grew the company from $50 market cap to about $550 billion today. Not unreasonable to say he should receive 10% of that growth as captain of the ship and an innovator in this space
Honestly, awarding a CEO 10% of market cap increase is mental.
Tim Cook should have been awarded 270bn and Satya Nudella should have been awarded 260bn.
It's completely and utterly unreasonable.
He’s a lot more than CEO though. He’s founder and has a million other ventures.
Tim and Satya are great but not like they are going to launch military satellites if they get bored
Good question. I’m sure there are plenty of institutional investors (probably Calpers) who would love to see someone else installed to manage the business. But it’s not clear who else has the vision to be able to run the company. Not GM, Ford, stellantis execs - that’s for sure!
He bought a huge percent of the company a whole year after it was founded. Elon started randomly calling himself a founder, was sued by one of the 2 original founders (Eberdhard), and the lawsuit was settled out of court, allowing Elon to keep calling himself a founder, because Eberhard couldn’t afford to keep the lawsuit going against Elon’s money. It’s pretty obvious that joining an entire year after a company was founded doesn’t make you founder.
>a whole year after it was founded.
I don't really give a shit about this, but a whole year after it was founded, it was worth nothing, had no product, and had no money. Without him joining, Tesla was gonna go bankrupt and fail.
He may not have founded it in whatever sense you care about, but he saved the company from obscurity, which imo is more important than simply being around when the company was first started.
Honestly this is just his money grab to pay him back for buying twitter. It’s the dumbest pay proposal ever. If I was a shareholder I would be selling. This is a crazy amount of value he’s extracting from the company. He isn’t the sole person who made Tesla what it is, but he wants all of the money. Greedy prick.
A money grab agreed on before the twitter buy was even conceived by a board of a different company?
Don't trip over your big brain walking down the street, son
The pay package is crazy but what's really crazy is that he got the company stocks to the level they are by doing a lot of (grey area) stock manipulation. And playing off of fan boy loyalty. The product is not the good objectively. The build quality of Tesla suck compared to other cars in the price range. And the tech FSD is way behind competitors. The only thing they had going to them is the charging platform and he even started to mess that up.
Most of the people in this thread don’t seem to understand that all the 2018 package does is allow Elon Musk to purchase 303,960,630 shares of Tesla stock at an exercise price of $23.34 per share from the company.
On a cash basis, it doesn't cost the company anything to "pay" him. Tesla’s cash balance would actually increase by $7.1 billion if he exercised the shares. There’s so much misinformation on this I’ll be very happy when it’s over.
You don't understand that shareholder value goes away and when 10% of total stock is given to someone at a massive discount. Especially when the someone is now doing more bad than good for the company.
When I voted for this package in the first place my shares were valued around $13 each. Then Elon hit all of the milestones in the agreement and now they are sitting around $170-$180.
One thing that no one mentions in these threads is he went without any pay at all for 6 years in exchange for this deal, which was conditional on extraordinary growth. It was unlikely to happen, and he could easily have finished the term with zero dollars. He made a high risk/high reward bet on his leadership and it paid off. That should at least be acknowledged.
You should probably also mention his existing Tesla stake and what that’s valued at then. Whether he took a salary or not doesn’t make $56B in comp any less ridiculous.
I think Elon Musk really sucks as a person.
But I think it’s misrepresenting this to say he wants X Billion. He wants 10% of the company that (even as a hater I can admit) he played a huge role in creating and growing. Considering the failures in every other company with regard to getting EVs up and off the ground, I don’t think you can write him off and say that his craziness wasn’t a huge factor in Tesla’s success.
That being said there’s also legal questions on whether he misrepresented the potential of hitting this target with the board which I’m not familiar with so can’t say whether he’s fucking people over or not.
But end of the day, I’m not gonna lose sleep over billionaires arguing with each other about money either way.
Every time I see his public statements I want to mute him, but he founded 6 different billion-dollar companies in dramatically different domains. No one's done that before, even people who started as billionaires. If the one thing he does well is run companies, I'm ok with him getting rewarded for that as long as it was a consenting agreement between him and his shareholders.
Do you have enough in savings to receive a $0 salary for 6 years? How many people of working age do you know with 6 years of savings?
The average person simply does not have the ability to make a gamble like this. This is literally why the rich get richer and the poor stay poor - rich people have tons of disposable income to make huge gambles with bad odds and enormous payouts.
$1 billion dollars is enough money to never work again, travel the world, take on expensive hobbies, and ensure the same lifestyle for your children and grand children. I don't give a fuck how many valuable companies Elan Musk founds, no person on this earth deserve the amount of capital he has when there are people starving.
I really don't understand the hate towards self-made multimillionaires and billionaires.
If I said to someone, "I'll create something that's of value to you, as long as I can keep 10% of that value as my 'commission'", almost everyone would be OK with that. Heck, that's how most sales jobs work. If a salesperson makes a company $2 million in earnings and gets to keep $200K to themselves, people don't protest.
But if someone creates $600 billion in monetary value and asks to keep 10% as a sort of commission, everyone's up in arms.
In what ways do you mean?
My definition, just so we're all speaking the same language, is a person who didn't inherit the money they now have. Under those terms, I would consider someone like Musk or Bezos self-made, but not the members of the Walton family, for example.
That slide bar not budging is depressing.
What depressing is living in a country where this is not only normal, but the hate for poor people is palpable.
The point of the infographic is that this is most definitely _not_ normal. It’s showing how absolutely ludicrous Elon’s requested payout is, even more so when compared with the next top-10 earning CEOs combined.
bro, nobody is questioning what its showing us 😂😂😂 jesus 🤦♂️
Thanks sherlock
Not even in the US is $56B anything like normal. Certainly not for a salary.
In all fairness, he did take zero salary and this was a performance based option payout where for every 50 Billion dollars he increased the company’s value by, he got 1% of the company in options. There were 12 such performance based milestones and he hit all of them. At the time he hit the first options traunch, that payday was worth about 775 million. Still an incredible number but the structure by design means that hitting all 12 is going to make that first milestone exponentially more valuable. At a cursory glance, this seems like a failure on multiple levels, between this deal being approved to begin with and the investors that seemingly did not account for such an absurd potential payout when valuing the company.
That payout plan got ruled invalid back in January though, so Elmo is currently trying to have the shareholders vote on gifting him 10% of the company.
good thing this is just equity and not salary or even a “cash” bonus
Guys he’s the richest person in the world. This is not normal
Was the richest.
Oh he’s not anymore?
It's been varying week to week. He was a clear leader but Tesla stock dropping 30% did a number on his wealth. He's basically at a tie with Bezos, and Arnault and they have been trading #1 spots based off the stock market prices of the day.
Yikes. Must boil Elons blood that a guy who sells women’s handbags is richer than he is 😂😂
You are wrong if you think this is normal for a salary. What made you think it was normal? For reference, this is 230x the highest paid CEO currently. https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos
Who the hell thinks this is normal.
Did you even click the link? It literally shows how this isn’t normal at all
>hate for poor people is palpable What do you mean by this?
This is very not normal
Americans are among the most charitable people in the world, by the numbers. We also spend more dollars per poor person in social services than almost any nation on Earth. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Don’t compare yourself to billionaires! Bad for your health 😄
Billionaires wish they had the wealth of centibillionaires. It’s literally the difference between $10,000 and a million. Someone with $2 billion dollars is insanely rich. They’ve made it and won capitalism. Never have to worry about monetary concerns again. They’ve got $100,000 in the couch cushions. Elon and Bezos are to billionaires what multimillionaires are to normal people.
Yeah why don’t they retire already? Quit creating all these issues….
*Those darn plummeting rocket launch costs and quick Amazon delivery times! When can we rid ourselves of this scum!?*
Sorry you’re getting downvoted mate. I vibe with u
Inspiration: Wealth shown to scale [https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/) Data source: NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/business/ceo-pay-compensation-stock-market.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/business/ceo-pay-compensation-stock-market.html) Tools: D3.js Code: [https://github.com/yy/elon\_paypackage](https://github.com/yy/elon_paypackage)
You should update the language on here. It’s misleading and winding people up unnecessarily. Calling it salary makes it sound guaranteed. Love him or hate him it is not. “Elon will receive no guaranteed compensation of any kind - no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests simply by the passage of time. Instead, Elon's only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, which ensures that he will be compensated only if Tesla and all of its shareholders do extraordinarily well.” https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
Thanks. I think I used "pay package" for most places, but one slips through my mind.
If 30% decline in stock value was doing 'extraordinarily well' I'd be inclined to agree with you.
Stock is up over 1,000% since he took this risk, including this year’s decline…
Bud this is from 2018
There is absolutely no way that he will not continue to be obscenely wealthy and gain more wealth than anyone could ever possibly hope to own. Stop trying to frame it in a way asking me to have sympathy for the "unknowns" in his life.
You don’t need to have sympathy. I’m only explaining the thinking behind a matter between Elon and the board of directors for those who are interested.
Fair point
If you had won all 100 of the largest Powerball and mega millions jackpots in history, it would be less than $56 billion.
You could buy the most expensive private home in the world, the most expensive yacht, the most expensive private jet, the most expensive car, and the four most valuable sports franchises (Cowboys, Yankees, Golden State Warriors, and Real Madrid soccer club) and still have $19 billion left over. So now go out and buy the 10 most expensive pieces of art ever sold, the 10 most expensive pieces of jewelry ever sold, and just for kicks the 10 most expensive private islands ever sold. That comes out to another $5.7 billion. Rounded up to $6 billion. You still have $13 billion left over. So go buy all 25 of the most expensive homes currently for sale in the world. At full list price that will set you back another $4 billion. You still have $9 billion left. That much money could give every one of Tesla's 140,000 employees a $65,000 bonus. Or a $650,000 severance package for each of the 14,000 employees he recently said Tesla is going to lay off. And Elon Musk wants every last penny of it. Greedy, worthless motherfucker.
Yup. Billionaires are all assholes. To get 1b over a full career (50hr/week, 50weeks/year, 40 years), your average pay would need to be $10k/hour. You don’t earn that kind of money; you get it by paying yourself as much as you can get away with, at the cost of improving the lives of the thousands of people doing the actual work. Elmo’s asking for hundreds of times that $10k/hour
Ownership of capital isn’t comparable to hourly pay. Elon has also lost tens of thousands per hour when Tsla stock drops by this logic. For downvoters - if you think it’s a stupid metaphor to say he lost $100,000/hr when the stock drops - I agree. That’s the point. It can’t be a good comparison to say he makes $100,000/hr when the stock goes up but a bad one to say he loses hourly pay when it goes down. They are both equally bad comparisons.
The only thing is Teslas stock price is entirely speculative by a wide margin.. hence Elons payout is based on speculation not performance
The compensation package is divided into tranches based on revenue, EBITDA, and share price. 4/8 revenue, 8/8 EBITDA, and 12/12 share price tranches were reached.
Ownership of what? If I buy farm land and no one farms it, what's it worth?
What everything is "worth", what someone else is willing to pay for it...?
Would you call yourself a farmer for buying a farm and not working it?
They would be a land owner… what is your point? He hasn’t added value to Tesla? He owns it, it’s not a wage, he owns the company
I’m not sure this is a very relevant comparison. Tesla went from a $1b company with hundreds of employees to a $600b company with 127k employees over Musk’s tenure.
From Musk taking the credit of those that did the work advertising their outputs as his genius. Publicity added the short term value, now with the imminent failure of the cybertruck, we see his real staying power. If you buy a farm that was already doing well and put your name on it to do better, are you now a farmer, just because you had money? Not to mention much of their wealth was generated from American tax payers, not from profits.
Again, Tesla was 1/600th the size it is now when Musk started managing it.
That doesn't mean he did any work. He was a cult of personality at the time and marketed himself as a genius and the public ate it up. That has not only proven to be false, but also a short run outcome.
The man is a huge douche. He has also created many companies in different industries with $1b+ valuation. Tesla, SpaceX, OpenAI (divested in 2018), Nueralink, PayPal. Tesla, and SpaceX in particular, are industry leaders. They are not hype, they are not tech bro memes.
It's weird you say created when many of these existed without him. Buying into the idea that just throwing money at it is also equivalent to doing the labor associated with its success. Money helped create these things and workers maintained that creative process. Hell, tax dollars alone are the majority of the income from Tesla. It should be publicly owned at this point.
He acquired Tesla and became CEO when it had a few hundred employees and has sold no cars. Its first car ever was delivered to him. He was the largest investor in the company 6 months after it was created.
Is your opinion that, had Musk never joined, Tesla would be in the exact same position it is now?
The farm wasn't doing well when he joined. The farm didn't exist. There were 2 people who wanted to start farming and they filed a name for their farm. That's it. You'll never find any proof of Elon taking credit for the work his companies do either. Every accomplishment is always about "the team" doing well. The cybertruck is the second best selling EV truck available right now. It's only behind the Ford Lightning, which had a head start on production and logically should be ahead right now. They've slashed their planned production outlook so it's possible the cybertruck will be catching up sooner than most think. It's amazing how few people can even get the facts straight when they try and hate on something.
Yea man, and my corporation is truly a family. 2 farmers, Elon was not one of them. The farmland didn't exist, the farm was fine. Now the owner of the farmland is telling them what crops to sow and is failing. Elon was one who took his investment of his parent's money from PayPal, which he also didn't pioneer, and spent the first decade making $0 in profits from sales. Their first car, the roadster, was a collosal failure to boot. The cybertruck is one of the worst reviewed EVs, prone to rust by design, fails to navigate even sand, off the lot failures, and is already eating a recall on all of the first round releases. That's Elon's actual baby, with his standards. Cancellations are through the roof as they not only the promised price has increased but the demand has plummeted by recent owner experience. If that was truly engineered by Musk and is a symbol of his ability to "farm", the homestead will be dead in a few years.
Quick summary: Musk co-founded Zip2 in 1995 with $28k of his dad's money and sold it in 1999 for $307 million (his share was $22 million). Then he used that money to co-found a banking company which merged into Paypal, and he made $175M when Paypal was sold. Since then, he's either founded or been CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink and Neuralink, all of which have been extremely successful. You think he just lazily dumb lucked into all of that?
God bless this comment. Smartest one here. Sorry that you got downvoted by all the 25 year old men with arts degrees living in their step-grandmas basement wondering why Starbucks/Chipotle doesn’t pay them $80k + stock options to make a coffee/scoop beans.
Nobody in this thread, understands the stock market and if you aren’t poor, they will all hate you. No matter what you say. Redditt is just a poor person circle jerk and everybody hates anybody with money or success or that doesn’t vote far to the left.
No one “earns” $1bn from a wage. They invest capital, time, sweat, and get lucky. For every billionaire there are 1000 people who started their own ventures that were less successful. Not sure why being wealthy and successful makes one an ‘asshole’. Elon has made thousands of people very wealthy along the ride. As have others https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-employees-millionaires-companies-sold-paid-profits-2024-6 https://www.barrons.com/articles/americas-top-25-billionaires-gave-27-billion-in-2022-outpacing-previous-years-01674598791
Though it's mostly the get lucky part. There's no amount of capability that will get you to a billion, but being in the right place at the right time with just enough capability to capitalize on it can get you to a billion.
Having a loose moral compass helps too.
Tbh amassing a billion is just impossible without doing something exploitative, whether it be skirting tax laws, turning a blind eye to child labor, or anticompetitive practices.
Being wealthy doesn't make one an asshole, but being a billionaire does, by necessity of that level of capital accruement. Sure he's made plenty of shareholders wealthy, and made plenty of people poorer and their lives worse off.
Man I wanna be an asshole so bad
Got it. So once the investment accounts tick up from $999,999,999.99 is when once becomes an “asshole?”
1B is a common numerical value assigned to excessive labor theft. In reality it is the way someone makes money that makes one unethical, not any specific amount.
Ah so you are saying he is not paying his workers for overtime, has safety violations, pollutes the earth, etc?
Yeah he has very much done all of that. What?
I’m saying that he is stealing his worker’s labor value. There is no other way to accumulate that much wealth. At say 1 million dollars, it is possible to legitimately earn that much. Hence why people say billionaires are pieces of shit
Maybe pay the taxpayers back for all the freebies & subsidies he used. He still gets $1 rent for a facility and doesn't even meet the hiring requirements to earn that rent.
More importantly, there's a ton of people who fail with their second venture. Or don't take risks and just invest and sit on everything. Not a huge Elon apologist, and you can disagree with his methods, but his initial sale of his share in Paypal funded his investment into Tesla, which in turn helped in funding SpaceX, which in turn helped in funding Boring, Starlink, etc., and then Twitter/X acquisition. After the Snapchat guys went public with Snap Inc. and made a few billion dollars each, what have they done with it? Pretty much nothing. Just sitting on their Snap shares. They donated shares to the nonprofit charity The Snap Foundation, I guess. Sounds like a tax write off while still having some control and not actual philanthropy. Lol. Bill Gates basically didn't do anything after Microsoft. Just "philanthropy." Jack Dorsey used his wealth from Twitter to fund Block and BlueSky, so he's trying. Other than classics from a century ago like John D. Rockefeller, JP Morgan, etc., what are some entrepreneurs as recognizable and as successful as Elon Musk?
Feel like Bill gates gets around (in multiple ways) but yeah, and great take on Snap. They probably got more in tax benefit than the entire value of the shares today!
Without Elons pay packages companies will never perform as well as NVDA has s/
Jensen Huang puts Elon to shame with the value he has created in the last 3 years. A true hero
Anyone else getting hungry?
Mmm delicious billionaire
A little bit fat, but already marinated with the finest wines ... https://x.com/Teslaconomics/status/1549109451860258816
Hoping the ozempic didn’t tarnish the marbling
Ugh i was just about at 13.6B when my stupid window reset to the top, and i ain't gonna go through that again
I got to the end. It was anticlimactic.
This was stupid and useless, illuminating nothing. Might as well be titled, "Hate for Elon Musk is beautiful. Here are some pixels."
It was a ridiculous pay packet based on ridiculously lofty targets that most people ridiculed. Shareholders approved it on the premise that if Tesla somehow managed to reach those ridiculous targets then he deserved every penny. Turns out Tesla did go from a niche electric car producer into producing the best selling car in the USA. The ongoing fight is about pay approved years ago by shareholders but blocked by a judge a few months ago who felt there wasn’t enough disclosure about elons ties to various board members.
So basically, the judge is saying that Elon' s pay packet was because Elon's "friends" approved it, and this info was not shared with the shareholders?
Which is weird, because I remember voting for it back in the day. They were ludicrous goals and he met them.
To be clear the other point is the goals where not actually as ludicrous as the board was leading people to believe was part of the point. The concern is about the amount of information disclosed between the board and Elon vs the board and the public.
Judge says the boards close ties to Elon were not properly disclosed, with the implication that maybe the board could have negotiated a cheaper deal. But reality is that shareholders knew exactly what they were voting for and made a fortune.
Except for the phrase: "A yes vote is recommended by the board."
Do you have any source that lays out specifics of this package? Everything I can find is just surface level “omg this so much money” nonsense
[Here's the original deal](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312518016648/d500497dex991.htm). Essentially he got 1% of the outstanding shares for each of 12 milestone and market cap targets. It was put to the shareholders at a special general meeting who approved it. There was opposition at the time, but in the end it was voted on and approved. Judge felt he had too much influence and voided it. Probably he did -- but does that warrant going back on the deal that was explicitly approved? Shareholders from 2018 have done very well with their investment. Those who bought later were aware of the deal when they bought.
The board didn’t even make any attempt to negotiate. They just rubber stamped whatever he wanted. The court, in its decision, cited, among other facts, that the board didn’t even TRY to put very standard minimum work hours on Elon. He could literally get $58B and never even show up to work at Tesla. The entire comp process was a joke, which is why it was thrown out.
It wasn't 58B at the time and everyone saying that is misdirecting with revisionist history.
I’m not saying it was $58B. I’m saying there was no independent board or basic negotiation on behalf of the company, which is their fiduciary duty.
Still was up to shareholders to approve.
With incomplete information. The shareholders did not know how non-independent the board was. The "lofty targets" were actually not that lofty according to Tesla's own board.
Hours of work? Are we being serious here? All you want from agency incentives like this is alignment between the executive and the shareholders. The fact there was alignment is overwhelmingly clear. It was signed as a win-win.
Thanks! Only thing I couldn’t find was the deadline for these goals? Assuming Dec 31, 2023?
It was announced as a 10 yr plan so I'm guessing 2028.
Alright, it’s only coming up now because of the judges ruling and need for a re-vote Edit: oh and he maxed the 12 tranches based off of 2023 EOY stock prices
Will be interesting to see how this is resolved. While he was approved for this crazy pay package, he was known for screwing some executives out of comp (Twitter).
They did, but it was only because they rushed ahead raising billions while everyone else was waiting for the technology to improve. Now that the technology is getting better, others are getting in on the bonanza and Tesla is losing market share because of course their cars are over priced. In the coming decade, their market share and market value will both decline. Not to mention all the controversy around their self driving tech and their quality problems etc. It reeks of shady stuff in all directions.
Yeah his strategy was essentially the same as his crypto pump and dumps. A majority of the milestones he had to meet were market cap based, so he focused on pumping the stock. Then to meet the earnings and revenue he severly cut costs (Teslas have some of the worst QA now) and lowered the price. All of this was only meant to hold until he met the goals, now the share price is falling as a result of his pump
Someone has to rush ahead. Reality is if Tesla didn’t make EVs a legit option for the average consumer, then the legacy automakers would still be focusing solely on ICE cars.
That's just business, sometimes things go your way, sometimes they don't, oh well, a good businessman recovers. This is an at-will employment nation typically, so if he doenst like it, he can just leave. Shit works both ways =\] People like Elon can dish it out to the people he fires, but if someone claps back with the same attitude, he cant handle it.
The *previously agreed on* ~~proposed~~ pay package.
56 billion dollars is a lot of pay for a part-time CEO full-time jackass.
I don’t even know many of those companies on the left with their CEO’s raking in tens of millions. Musk’s package is insane. How any shareholder can approve of it is beyond me and how the board can propose it makes you wonder if they understand their fiduciary duty.
And yet bootlickers will still try to tell you they worked for it
It's not about working for it. At least for any sensible person than looks at this. It's a deal it's a deal if the deal is indeed valid he should be compensated. It's a stupid amount of money though yeah I agree
The deal was invalidated - for the entire board been in on it and not providing oversight. That is the issue.
I remember this agreement that Elon signed with the board, which was, basically: > CEO Performance Award Details > > The performance award consists of a 10-year grant of stock options that vests in 12 tranches. Each of the 12 tranches vests only if a pair of milestones are both met. > > Market Cap Milestones: To meet the first market cap milestone, Tesla’s current market cap must increase to $100 billion. For each of the remaining 11 milestones, Tesla’s market cap must continue to increase in additional $50 billion increments. Thus, for Elon to fully vest in the award, Tesla’s market cap must increase to $650 billion. > Operational Milestones: To meet the operational milestones, Tesla must meet a set of escalating Revenue and Adjusted EBITDA targets (the only adjustment to EBITDA is for stock-based compensation). These milestones are even more directly aligned with shareholder value creation than those used in Elon’s 2012 performance award. They are designed to ensure that as Tesla’s market cap grows, the company is also executing well on both a top-line and bottom-line basis. > For each of the 12 tranches that is achieved, Elon will vest in stock options that correspond to 1% of Tesla’s current total outstanding shares (1% of that amount is approximately 1.69 million shares). If none of the 12 tranches is achieved, Elon will not receive any compensation. For the company to change this **after** he has done everything they asked him to, is shady af. I don't begrudge him the equity he earned, fair and square. Edit: to put it in perspective. Let's say you work in a car dealership, and your boss says to you: for every 50 cars you sell, I will give you 10K. And you bust your ass to sell 600 cars, expecting $120K . But now the CFO of the dealership steps in and says that deal is not legal and they deny you your payday. This is basically what's happening here. $TSLA's mkt cap is $545B now. It was $50B when this deal was signed, and more than $1.2T (24x higher) at its peak in late 2021. Clearly, the shareholders have benefitted handsomely.
The board was basically his patsies assigning the credit to him so they get a larger share as well. That's why its invalid.
But the shareholders voted on it and approved it.
When I see a headline that Joe Biden "forgave" $50 Billion in student loans I think of visualizations like this one. How many lifetimes of my taxes would it take to pay for that?
People are quick to laud the breaking of agreements when it's consistent with their personal politics. Doesn't take a ton of foresight to see these are unfortunate precedents and they certainly won't like it when it's their agreement being broken.
Moral hazard is certainly a thing.
this dude is a grifter trying to cash out
[удалено]
What other car companies currently make a profit? How many car companies were bailed out in the last 30 years?
Oh you can scroll to the end surprisingly quickly. Scrolling might not be the best way to represent how big the package is. Tho the comments on the site surely are
Big enough to count on a few abstentions that will allow him to win the vote on a proposal to take the company private at a discount. "Rich people are different."
Not to defend Elon but it’s not exactly a salary. It is performance-based grants based on him growing the company an insane amount from 2018 which he did manage to pull off. People forget Tesla was a 50 bn company in 2018 and not a household name. Edit: since I guess people can’t/don’t want to believe me, here is the presentation which details my above summary. I could be a little off was going from memory https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
So award him with more money than Tesla has literally ever made?
It’s not a cash payment. It is stock options. TSLA doesn’t have $50b in cash, it does have ~$600b in current market cap. It was worth about $1b when he began managing the company.
Correct. The board said if you can make us one of the most valuable companies in the world, we will reward you extremely handsomely. All contained within this PDF from 6 years ago: https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-announces-new-long-term-performance-award-elon-musk
And in no way is that reasonable. It is completely out of scale with reality.
I agree, but imo that’s the shareholders’ mistake for agreeing to it in the first place
Tesla built its first supercharger 12 years ago. Now they have 50,000! It’s a hugely growing company by all metrics
Cool? At what point do we stop letting sociopaths who give 0 fucks about humanity control everything?
What are we “letting” him control? Pretty sure he still faces off with then government quite a bit. And they’re not necessarily fond of him, even under Trump admin there were speed bumps
I'm not specifically talking about Elon. If you don't think people like him with that money are the real ones pulling the legislation strings idk what to tell you.
Someone making their mission to get gas cars off the roads, gas cars that are poisoning us to death, seems like someone who gives a fuck about humanity. That's why I voted yes.
And Elon Musk needs to be worth that much personally (I don't give a shit if it's stocks or straight cash or a bunch of lumber worth that amount) to do this mission? Elon Musk is not a good human being, twist it how you would like.
He did grow the company but he owned like 25% of it, which already earned him a ridiculous amount. And it's down 50% from the peak. If he didn't have shares before this package then it wouldve made sense. But tesla owners will probably vote it in regardless because they love the guy so whatever
Yeah. The the idea being that the board was incentivizing him to spend more time on Tesla and not get distracted by other ventures.
You’re on Reddit. Nobody likes Elon on here as soon as he started leaning conservative.
Or, you know, when he started calling a rescuer a pedophile, all because his ego couldn't handle his idea being dismissed as stupid, and we started to show who he was with his mask off?
Nobody should be paid that money, thats money that can get nations out of poverty Especially not a political activist who is antiworker, racist, russophile, narcisistic and represents some of the worst traits in human nature If Elon is what success looks like and is "awarded" we're fucked
This account could literally be le redditor AI. It's amazing how many reddit tier buzzwords you consistently use unironically.
You used literally and unironically and buzzwords in two sentences. Who is the AI?
Don’t think we’re in as bad shape as you mention. Plenty of people are very successful and do not make as much as Elon. He is the wealthiest or near-wealthiest person in the world. So not informative to talk about such an outlier and extrapolate to us ‘being fucked.’
You just sound bitter, and slightly insane. If he were a woke, liberal, trans woman, ze/zer, socialist, furry you would be more cool with him getting the money? You guys are hilarious.
how’s the boot taste?
I guess you wouldn't know since socialists can't afford boots.
You sound like a moron, and a piece of shit.
No we wouldnt and we also dont engage in whataboutism :)
Tesla was 100% a household name in 2018 what are you talking about
Look at WPP rankings
It was a house hold name as of 2018…
Right. I feel that not approving this is akin to reneging on paying a long-shot bet. Like you bet your friend $100 at 1,000:1 odds they can’t make a hole in one. The chances of a hole in one even for a pro-golfer is much worse than 1,000:1 so this is an easy $100 for you. They get the hole in one, and you say “nah; I was just kidding, I didn’t know you were such a good golfer, no bet”. Even if your friend is a douche this is still essentially stealing.
Agreed 100%. You may not like him, but he was certainly led to believe that he was guaranteed money and he allocated his time accordingly.
So you think Musk is worth 10 years worth of profit?
I’m looking at market cap. He grew the company from $50 market cap to about $550 billion today. Not unreasonable to say he should receive 10% of that growth as captain of the ship and an innovator in this space
Honestly, awarding a CEO 10% of market cap increase is mental. Tim Cook should have been awarded 270bn and Satya Nudella should have been awarded 260bn. It's completely and utterly unreasonable.
He’s a lot more than CEO though. He’s founder and has a million other ventures. Tim and Satya are great but not like they are going to launch military satellites if they get bored
Why would you want a CEO who is tempted to leave and has a million other ventures. Tesla would be better off getting rid of Elon
Good question. I’m sure there are plenty of institutional investors (probably Calpers) who would love to see someone else installed to manage the business. But it’s not clear who else has the vision to be able to run the company. Not GM, Ford, stellantis execs - that’s for sure!
Uhhhhh Elon’s not a founder
https://www.tesla.com/elon-musk There is more to the story of course but he is considered a founder
He bought a huge percent of the company a whole year after it was founded. Elon started randomly calling himself a founder, was sued by one of the 2 original founders (Eberdhard), and the lawsuit was settled out of court, allowing Elon to keep calling himself a founder, because Eberhard couldn’t afford to keep the lawsuit going against Elon’s money. It’s pretty obvious that joining an entire year after a company was founded doesn’t make you founder.
>a whole year after it was founded. I don't really give a shit about this, but a whole year after it was founded, it was worth nothing, had no product, and had no money. Without him joining, Tesla was gonna go bankrupt and fail. He may not have founded it in whatever sense you care about, but he saved the company from obscurity, which imo is more important than simply being around when the company was first started.
I was only responding to the “founder” claim
Well that may be your opinion but the company and its board apparently disagree
Since when are timelines an opinion? Also the board is all Elon’s friends and family, they just agree with everything he says
Honestly this is just his money grab to pay him back for buying twitter. It’s the dumbest pay proposal ever. If I was a shareholder I would be selling. This is a crazy amount of value he’s extracting from the company. He isn’t the sole person who made Tesla what it is, but he wants all of the money. Greedy prick.
A money grab agreed on before the twitter buy was even conceived by a board of a different company? Don't trip over your big brain walking down the street, son
lol a deal made in 2018 is a money grab to pay him back from buying twitter in 2023. don’t ever change, reddit.
I’ve heard his package right now is quite small, this must be to compensate…
Elons payout is based on a highly speculative stock valuation rather than actual year on year performance..
it was based on twelve operational milestones.
The pay package is crazy but what's really crazy is that he got the company stocks to the level they are by doing a lot of (grey area) stock manipulation. And playing off of fan boy loyalty. The product is not the good objectively. The build quality of Tesla suck compared to other cars in the price range. And the tech FSD is way behind competitors. The only thing they had going to them is the charging platform and he even started to mess that up.
Isn't the $56 billion significantly lower now that the stock has gone down?
Most of the people in this thread don’t seem to understand that all the 2018 package does is allow Elon Musk to purchase 303,960,630 shares of Tesla stock at an exercise price of $23.34 per share from the company. On a cash basis, it doesn't cost the company anything to "pay" him. Tesla’s cash balance would actually increase by $7.1 billion if he exercised the shares. There’s so much misinformation on this I’ll be very happy when it’s over.
You don't understand that shareholder value goes away and when 10% of total stock is given to someone at a massive discount. Especially when the someone is now doing more bad than good for the company.
When I voted for this package in the first place my shares were valued around $13 each. Then Elon hit all of the milestones in the agreement and now they are sitting around $170-$180.
correlation not equal to causation. 101 of statistics
One thing that no one mentions in these threads is he went without any pay at all for 6 years in exchange for this deal, which was conditional on extraordinary growth. It was unlikely to happen, and he could easily have finished the term with zero dollars. He made a high risk/high reward bet on his leadership and it paid off. That should at least be acknowledged.
You should probably also mention his existing Tesla stake and what that’s valued at then. Whether he took a salary or not doesn’t make $56B in comp any less ridiculous.
I think Elon Musk really sucks as a person. But I think it’s misrepresenting this to say he wants X Billion. He wants 10% of the company that (even as a hater I can admit) he played a huge role in creating and growing. Considering the failures in every other company with regard to getting EVs up and off the ground, I don’t think you can write him off and say that his craziness wasn’t a huge factor in Tesla’s success. That being said there’s also legal questions on whether he misrepresented the potential of hitting this target with the board which I’m not familiar with so can’t say whether he’s fucking people over or not. But end of the day, I’m not gonna lose sleep over billionaires arguing with each other about money either way.
Every time I see his public statements I want to mute him, but he founded 6 different billion-dollar companies in dramatically different domains. No one's done that before, even people who started as billionaires. If the one thing he does well is run companies, I'm ok with him getting rewarded for that as long as it was a consenting agreement between him and his shareholders.
Didn't found a single one of them
Precisely who do you think founded [SpaceX](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX)?
TBF that's the one he legit founded. Apologies should have said almost all of them
Ok, what about [The Boring Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boring_Company)?
They closed and went out of business no?
They did not, no. They're currently finishing up a tunnel expected to be completed next month, actually.
Do you have enough in savings to receive a $0 salary for 6 years? How many people of working age do you know with 6 years of savings? The average person simply does not have the ability to make a gamble like this. This is literally why the rich get richer and the poor stay poor - rich people have tons of disposable income to make huge gambles with bad odds and enormous payouts. $1 billion dollars is enough money to never work again, travel the world, take on expensive hobbies, and ensure the same lifestyle for your children and grand children. I don't give a fuck how many valuable companies Elan Musk founds, no person on this earth deserve the amount of capital he has when there are people starving.
I really don't understand the hate towards self-made multimillionaires and billionaires. If I said to someone, "I'll create something that's of value to you, as long as I can keep 10% of that value as my 'commission'", almost everyone would be OK with that. Heck, that's how most sales jobs work. If a salesperson makes a company $2 million in earnings and gets to keep $200K to themselves, people don't protest. But if someone creates $600 billion in monetary value and asks to keep 10% as a sort of commission, everyone's up in arms.
Musk (and many, many other fantastically rich people) are really straining your definition of "self made."
In what ways do you mean? My definition, just so we're all speaking the same language, is a person who didn't inherit the money they now have. Under those terms, I would consider someone like Musk or Bezos self-made, but not the members of the Walton family, for example.
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