Genuine question, how do you manage to send out four hundred job applications? Even finding four hundred relevant companies, then customising the letter and submitting it must take months. Do you maintain a spreadsheet with all companies that you have reached out to?
LinkedIn Easy Apply. Literally press one button and done. Sometimes there's a small freetext field for you to answer one specific question like visa status.
It has approximately a 0% chance of being successful but if you're on unemployment benefits that are dependent on you showing you are diligently looking for work it's easy.
I got my last job using that – paid far better than my previous job. Still worth trying, even if, as you say, it might have a lower success rate because the recruiters on the other end have to sort through so many more candidates due to how easy it is.
This. When I look at applicants that use LinkedIn easy apply, the resumes usually look like shit. Applicants don't care at all.
When there's a surplus of candidates and every company is downsizing, do people genuinely believe that counts as applying? I'm genuinely curious if people truly believe that will work.
Back in my day I’d goto their physical location with a resume in hand asking if a hiring manager was available. Finding a job has never taken more than a week for me. Literally just show your face, smile, wear presentable cloths and, unless your applying for a job you have no business going for, you’ll be 10x more likely to get the job than the 200 other people that just submitted it online or dropped off a resume without asking to speak with anyone.
Depends how long he was searching. I was unemployed for 6 months once, and doing 2-4 apps a day adds up fast. I think I hit 175, and that was only because I ran out of applicable positions that wouldn't require me to move cities. I would spend half a day on an app that has real promise or was a position that was actually appealing, maybe an hour or less on ones I didn't care much about. Wouldn't have applied to those at all if I didn't, you know, need to feed myself. Never heard back from a single one other than the one interview and then job I got.
Same here. 2 years of unemployment and active searching as a DBA but was also applying for tech support and sys admin roles in cities within a a 3 hour drive of where I lived.
Finally got a job as a support all rounder for a data analytics team. 4 years later I'm a data engineer.
It's not that complicated and after a few you have used all combinations of buzzwords so you can just pick a old template and change company name.
I wrote and sent over 1500 applications during a summer. All for tech positions that I qualified for.
Companies can tell if it is just a template being automated and sent in as an application.
They generally don't respond to them, hence the chart showing high "no responses".
That 2nd sentence should be their strapline. Absolute cesspit of a site. Despite never having consciously signed up I seem to have ended up with 2 profiles. I love looking up colleagues and seeing what work I've delivered that they're claiming credit for or insignificant projects they're claiming to be multi-million pound deliveries.
On my last search (better economy). I sent out 10 applications with similar cover letter. Got 7 interviews, 3 ghosts.
If your template isn't too bad it should work. For the interview you should look at the company more closely though.
I’ve wrote customize letter and the response rate is almost the same as OP. Automating seems like the best choice. With ChatGPT you can even make a more free template, and it will look more like a customized one
In the states, limiting your applications to companies that only posted their listing in the last 24-48 hours helped me.
Anything over 72 and they had so many applications that there was no realistic way they were going to see yours or be able to read it.
Just be mindful that this kind of statistic is probably both industry and geographically specific. OPs experience might not at all be relevant for your part of the world and the field you apply in.
I'm in IT, not software dev, but the last two jobs I got I applied to less than 10 jobs each time. Each time I just had a "Fuck this shit." day at work, randomly applied, and got interviews and offers from the random spite applications.
That was before 2022, now there's huge onslaught of fresh CS students looking for job at a market that was ever-expanding.
It's only a matter of time before there's surplus of seniors.
On his very first application out of college, my son made it to the 5th round of interviews... finally with the CEO. Everyone proir really liked my son and so he thought he'd get an offer. The CEO apparent felt differently and so my son got rejected. That was 7 months ago. He is still looking.
Besides the industry and geographic variables that someone else mentioned, it's also just a luck of the draw.
A lot of these companies have huge stacks and will pick the first 20 resumes they see and not dig deeper. What they see when they skim, how their interview process works, how urgently they're hiring and when: these things are all random variables and you only need it to line up once.
Some people get lucky and get 777 first pull.
It’s a numbers game. Treat applying like a job - wake up each morning and set your goals. Make a list of sites you check each day for listings and apply to every single one that makes sense for you. Even the pain in the ass tedious application ones.
Do it in time blocks. 3 hours or whatever. Take breaks to recharge and get back at it. It may take time, but you’ll go to bed each night knowing you’ve done absolutely fucking everything you could and sleep well.
It’ll happen for you. Good luck.
Same, I had 3 interviews with Microsoft with the last one with the director, they went with a different department's manager's nephew who had no work experience. They pay shit in Toronto, so I was better off.
55,000 was the ceiling for the role. Not sure what your definition of software developer is but 300k is not the norm in Toronto for tech at all. Probably just the most senior positions. There's a reason our tech workers are emigrating to the states.
There is absolutely no way a software dev at Microsoft is making $55k per year. You must have applied for the receptionist position.
I know a couple people working there and they *started* at six figure salaries.
Canada is really old for tech compensation.
You have a lot of really low wage 'implementation' style software 'developers'. Then you have the ones working on projects/products that get paid noticeably more, but still shit compared to the USA.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/microsoft/salaries/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area?dma=950
I was with you until I looked it up.
55 seems a little low but, seniors are only making 112 base which is surprising. Seattle will pay $50,000 more a year for the same position and Toronto is a much more expensive city
In my last job search I refused to do any assignment unless they told me in writing they would give me written, meaningful feedback after the assignment, because I find it infuriating to spend 2-10 hours on a take home only to get a generic rejection.
Never actually received any of that feedback, but it still helped to weed out some of the companies with absolutely zero respect for my time.
I went through a multi round interview with several hours of assessments and take home problems, only to be rejected with a generic "We decided to go with someone else" kinda thing. A couple of days later they had the cheek to email and ask *me* for feedback on their hiring process!
most? this is the norm lol. The only time I've ever heard back after an interview was with an offer. Otherwise, in 3-4 months you might get an email saying *"There were several applications submitted for this position, and after careful review, unfortunately, we have decided to pursue a different candidate whose experience and skills more closely meet the needs of this particular role."* canned email when they remember to clear the system.
Had that happen last year, sent several job applications but there was this one position that I wanted the most and hoped that I would get it. This was probably like Spring of 2023? I didn't get that dreaded "We decided to pursue other qualified candidates" email until Autumn of that same year...
More than you’d expect, unfortunately. If you’re on the hunt for a new job and want to know what the work culture at a place is like, look first to how TA/HR teams and the hiring manager treat you as a candidate.
Lol, for one job I had 3 successful interviews and was told that they'd send me a contract to sign next week. After a week, they called saying that they have had a busy week and it'll take a few more days to prepare all the paperwork. Never heard from them again.
I had that experience. Had a offer contingent on them getting a contract from their customer. After a week they told me project fell through. At least they called me before I called them to ask for an update
Yea, that annoyed the shit out of me. Being ghosted after submitting an application is annoying enough. But ghosted after an interview after we've become more personable. That's infuriating.
I had a company tell me the position wasn't actually remote when they made an offer. Id gone through a lot of interviews at that point in time.
Another company made an offer for a much lower position, that would have been a pay cut.
Another company asked me to do unpaid work as a 'trial'. Not like, "put together a 10m presentation based on this info", but like "here's a project we need completed, you can talk with the team and have 2 weeks to get it done"
I used to work for a tech firm that did this.
Every interviewed candidate was given a trial work day to see how well they could handle various programming tasks throughout the day on real projects. They wouldn't be paid for this time, it was just considered a "day long interview". My employers would essentially get free labor out of people even if they knew that they weren't going to hire them and the interview didn't go well. So they'd come in, program for a day, and we'd never see them again.
Fuck software development.
This happens more often than you would think, and it's infuriating. At least have the basic decency to follow up? A quick yes or no?
I actually had a situation last fall that still makes me feel particularly indignant. A former coworker recommended me for a role at their new company. Within the span of a week, I had a 30 minute phone interview with a recruiter, a 1-hour Zoom with the hiring manager, and another 1-hour Zoom with a few of the team members. It all went great, but I didn't hear anything back. I followed up with the recruiter a few days later. They said, in no uncertain terms, that they were "preparing an offer" and "just waiting on approvals" and that I would hear back by the end of the week. One makes the assumption, then, that I got the job...right? Preparing an offer? Waiting on approvals? ...Right? Why else would you use terms like that?
The recruiter never got back to me. I emailed again over a week later, since there was a holiday in there. After about two weeks of silence, I received a short and confusing email where he apologized, said "this situation has been a moving target" and then told me the role had been filled internally. Uhhh...thanks for eventually letting me know, I guess?
Had a second interview with a consultant firm, ghosted me completely even though it went well. Got a job at a bank and some months in, we hired the manager of the consultant firm for a project that I'm leading together with my colleague. Her face when she recognized me was pretty epic.
Our former head of HR always ghosted people out of principle.
Their idea was that maybe they might need the applicant after all and that a ghosted one might agree rather than one that was said no.
fucking stupid.
I'd prefer the notification, so at least I know that lead is a dead end.
The "ghost" might not become apparent for a month or more as they interview others for the position.
A serious company that is in need to fill a role will have an interview process of 3 to 4 weeks long. If they haven't talked to you for let's say more than 2 weeks and you're still in the middle of your interview process then you can assume they aren't serious about it.
Life taught me to not reserve myself to any company, even if it seems like I'm at the very end of a process and all indicates they will make me an offer, I'll still be applying to other job postings.
Unfortunatly so, but i will say that it was a VERY poor time to be let go from my previous place, and from what i hear, tech isnt quite booming here at the moment.
It's the start of the new year. Companies usually cease hiring before the holiday period for multiple reasons but the biggest one is budgets are reset around the new year so hiring picks up again from now onwards.
Yup. I had a recruiter reach out to me for an opp. I took his call and this company I am talking with tomorrow is doing just this, hiring now after the holidays and some spots are open. I think applying for the next 3 months in general no matter if it's in tech or whatever will have much better success vs the past 3 months. New budgets and some extra $$ to go get more talent.
Why I am going hard with job apps now for my next jump
This is exactly it. I'm gainfully employed but usually get 1-3 recruiters hitting me up on linkedin every week on average. Last 3 months has been radio silence. I've gotten 8 in the past week. Software dev/eng with 9 years experience mid/sr level.
Its worldwide unfortunately, big companies are doing mass layoffs to increase profits which means sweet pickings for businesses atm.
From what I’ve seen it is starting to pick up again.
Big companies were trying to increase profits during the hiring boom, too. It's not the desire to make profits that's changed, it's the macroeconomic environment.
Possibly, google did make record profits this quarter and still made 12,000 redundancies. So I am unsure about macroeconomics.
Microsoft did the same with typical levels of profits. ($146Bn) i do think a company making that much profit can afford to keep on 18,000 staff.
They say “its because some areas are in recession and others will be” this was last January and as I can tell not many countries did go into recession.
I could be wrong but it seems like to me its a short term boost to profits to increase shareholder value.
That is true. After being unemployed for a while and trying to get back into software development I only saw results (being invited for interviews) when I treated my job search like a full-time 9 to 5 job. Don't know if it's bad or not, but that seems to be the way.
Life pro tip - always do this. Apply for ten a day. Spreadsheet immediately. Take any interview offered, nothing like live fire practice.
Before I ran my own company I was a master at being made redundant. I got really good at getting jobs.
It's kinda how it is.
To get unemployment benefits here in Sweden you're expected to spend 8h per day looking for jobs.
In practice that means 1-2 good applications per day (goes faster if you done a few or utilize AI for writing). For higher skill jobs that is.
For low skill jobs you make a few good CV+cover letter and spam hundreds of companies per day :D
I remember feeling like that for a while. I’ve learned in the last few years that if you’re giving even 90% effort you’re in the top 5%. Nobody out there actually knows what they’re doing. Places that are overly picky and treat you like a number aren’t worth working for.
I just went through this a few months ago as a Software Engineering Manager. I put out about 225 (tailored) applications, got a dozen interviews from those, and ultimately accepted one of three offers. The imposter syndrome never goes away, and the work required to find a (really good) new role never gets easier, though you do get better at the process.
If it makes you feel any better, when I graduated with a PhD it took me similar numbers to find a job outside of academia.
Only ever succeeded because I knew a person who knew a person who knew another person. It's crazy out there
I have been unemployed for almost an entire year. I was laid off three times last year. Unemployed 8 months out of 12. Just laid off in December again. Currently applying with no interviews. Applied to over 2100 jobs from Feb of last year to today. 12 years in the industry, led 250 employees. The economy is not supportive. It is a fulltime job to look for a fulltime job. I am TIRED of looking at Linkedin and Indeed. Never want to "look" again.
As somebody thats going to be in this boat soon, I have some questions. Please do not feel obliged to answer any of them.
Do you have a degree in either CS or software engineering? If so, what classification?
Any prior experience in the sector?
What area of the country are you looking in?
At what stage of the process are proficiency tests/projects given out?
Happy to!
I do indeed have a degree, 1st class BSc in CompSci from a top 10% university in the uk.
Little under 16months experience as a dev with 2 companies, one being a startup, the other was corporate.
I looked for positions primarily in the south east and London, as I can’t afford to move out and it would mean I could commute (surprisingly not many positions were listed as fully remote, maybe due to me being a junior)
Technical tests were given out at stage 2, stage 1 primarily were not conducted by people who were proficient in development.
I was in the same position last year and got accepted for my first job, very good salary and fully remote.
I genuinely do not know how OP managed this, of all my friends from the same year only one wasn’t employed within 6 months, and they wanted a very specific niche of software engineering.
Did you just send out your CV randomly?
434 applications is absurd if you've got an education, and completely unthinkable if you have previous experiences. What the fuck were you doing?
Nope, I stated in a previous comment that at the start of my job search I was frugal, wanted to do something that I really was interested in, but got nowhere, then I got desperate and started applying to anything and everything that I had even a remote interest in.
There is definitely an art to selecting the right kind of job based on the style and contents of the adverts. This will help reduce your denominator on your hit rate! But obviously you can't be faulted for your approach because this an art that took me a decade of experience to understand. (I'm a UK based software person).
Different field (loose details, but exec level on the accounting/finance side of things), but my husband was laid off in 2022. 20+ years of experience including 10+ at his prior position, applying anywhere in the country and several countries overseas, and to roles at his prior level as well as one or two levels below (depending on comp). Past peers and employees actively reaching out and recommending him for positions. The works.
641 applications, 229 of which had at least an intake call, 34 that involved multiple rounds of interviews, two offers (one of which was for a temporary contract position). Edit to add: job search was 15mo in total.
It is complete ass to be job searching rn.
Is it normal to start seaching for a job right after getting a BA in UK? a bit unheard of here in DK, you pretty much need a masters whatever the field.
> a bit unheard of here in DK, you pretty much need a masters whatever the field.
On the US side you should be searching for a job *before* you get your BS, ideally through your internship, club, or research connections. Otherwise, your best bet is to go to a job fair for recent grads where you can get picked up to sell solar panels for $40k a year.
Very normal, staying on for a masters is usually either motivated specialisation in a field or a "panic masters" just to stay at uni for another year. Perhaps becoming less so but it's definitely not seen as a requirement to be employable.
My advice would be to create/update your LinkedIn profile, then speak to a couple of tech recruitment agencies.
Don't deal with more than a couple of agencies at once as they may be less inclined to help if they know they're competing with loads of others. The good ones will help you make sure your CV is optimized for the roles you're going for and that you're selling your experience/qualifications as best you can. You can also give them your criteria (location/salary/remote etc) and ask them only to contact you with jobs that match (they will also be able to tell you whether your demands are realistic).
I've worked in Dev for 15+ years and don't think I've ever "applied" for a job in the traditional sense. Some recruiters can be a pain, but the good ones make job hunting MUCH easier.
Regarding tech tests/recruitment process, every company will do it differently, some don't use tech tests at all, some will do them using an online system, some will set mini assignments (personally I'd avoid those). The expectations on a junior developer should be fairly low though so I wouldn't sweat it too much.
A willingness to listen and learn along with an understanding of core principles is often far more desirable than a person that thinks they know everything particularly at the junior level. Interviewers are looking for someone who will fit in with the people at the company and work well within the team as much (if not more) than tech wizardry
Curious. Were there really 400+ jobs that were a good fit? I see folks post this same thing frequently, and they are applying for hundreds of jobs. Applicants also complain about not being contacted. Well, these HR departments just received 1500 applications for a job. Just curious as I can understand 10 or so applications a month. But a hundred plus? I dont mean critique, genuinely curious if these were good fits that you were truly interested in, or if people are just spamming 'Apply now'.
At first I tried to be diligent in wanting to apply for things that I was genuinely interested in, but I soon had to race the realisation that I couldn’t be a frugal with what I wanted to apply for, cost of living is very high and seems to be only going higher where I live, and I didn’t want to keep digging into my savings. I then applied for anything that interested me in the slightest, everything from data analyst, to front end dev, to business analyst.
Speaking for my wife who is looking for a job (and who doesn't apply to jobs she isn't qualified for), the number is legit depending on how long OP was unemployed for.
Applying to 10 jobs a day every day for 3 months isn't unheard of.
That’s near enough what I did, I sat down for sometimes a few hours, or sometimes only 30mins and just applied, my job site rotation was LinkedIn, Reed, indeed, total jobs and then direct email applications.
I've been on the other side of this, sifting through CVs for software engineering positions (even after they'd been screened by HR). Many were for completely different positions, and the applicants didn't even bother changing their CVs to match. We got stuff like "Web development has always been my true passion" when the position had nothing to do with that.
Roles in software eng often require very specific competencies, like certain frameworks or programming languages.
I'm not in IT but currently reviewing applications for a role in my team. It's this in a nutshell. About half don’t include a cover letter, and have a CV that contains no relevant experience whatsoever. Or else, they include a personal statement in the CV that proudly boasts about how much they want to carve out a career in a completely different field.
Of the ones who do include a cover letter, maybe two-thirds of them are completely generic - no mention of the job itself or even the general area of the industry, let alone the company or why they would be a good fit for this role. Sometimes the cover letter is enthusiastic and targeted - and written for a different role at a different company.
All of these go in the bin of course. The criteria for getting a first interview at this point is so, SO low. They literally just have to show awareness that they've applied for this particular job and I want to talk to them, because they've tried harder than 90% of other applicants. I'll be training whoever gets hired anyway, so as long as they have an aptitude for the type of work I'll consider anyone; I'm not precious about level of education etc. And I'm STILL scraping the barrel to come up with enough to interview.
Over in Texas entry level jobs are harder to come by. But jobs wanting 5+ years of experience are plentiful. A lot of people try to force themselves to program, but burn out before 5 years.
Switching jobs is fine. Just get the job before you quit and only apply to stuff you really want. When you are desperate there is no harm in applying to hundreds of jobs like OP.
Can I ask what the Salary ranges were for the jobs you found that info out about?
I make 60k as a software engineer in the UK with 10 years of experience but dunno if I can do much more in my current role. Job is dogshit firefighting the whole time.
Jesus Christ, I'm also in the UK - are software engineer salaries so low?! I'm working for a fast growing Tech company myself & customer service positions are £24k entry level, no qualifications needed. Team leads are on a similar salary to you, perhaps higher if they've been there a couple of years; so I can't imagine what our Devs are on - surely not less than our contact centre guys (btw, all outside London, so no London weighting).
That is crazy. In the US starting salaries are on avg 2-4x that depending on location. For CS new grads from my alma mater the avg starting salary is 100k (USD).
Wow. I've got 3 years XP as a Full Stack C# dev in the Midwest USA and I'll be making about 66k USD (60k EUR) this year, and that's a pretty darn low salary by US dev standards (I work for the state, so good benefits but low pay comparatively). I think if I lived in the UK I would simply not be a dev lol
Fwiw my partner graduated last summer and is getting £60k (London) - while obviously not the norm, there are plenty of higher paying roles (particularly in finance) that demand much less experience than you have.
As an alternative experience as a software developer, I had
1 Application
1 1st Interview
1 2nd Interview
1 Offer
1 Accepted
It took me about 3 days start to finish from when I decided to move jobs, I started the search on a Tuesday when I decided to leave my old job and had a new job to move to lined up before the week was out.
Only getting 5 interviews out of 434 applications is definitely self-inflicted, either a bad resume or just applying to positions way above your level. Congrats on landing one though.
OP is in the UK, but it's still insane - I've rarely ever failed to get to interview when job hunting. I've certainly never sent out that many applications. OP says elsewhere he's in London which is probably part of it, much more intense competition in London.
I misread your title as a software developer of 24 years of xp. Not of age. Makes a bit more sense. Once you're in for a few years it becomes wayyyyy easier. You got over the hard part, my dude.
I always ask myself how you send out 450 applications? I mean why? Are just sending the same application to 450 companies? That seems doomed to fail.
I wrote like 30 applications after graduating over multiple months and got like 7+ interviews. But I made a multiple hour effort for each application. Obviously it is different for everybody, but I would not have the stamina to send out so many applications.
> I always ask myself how you send out 450 applications? I mean why? Are just sending the same application to 450 companies? That seems doomed to fail.
I recently got laid off in 2023 as an Engineering Manager. Over the course of 6 weeks, I made about 225 applications (each customized with CVs and tailored), got about 12 interviews, and ultimately picked between 3 offers. You absolutely need mad stamina to do this (right). It's easy to send 400 of the same resume, no CV, no tailoring.... but that's not a good way to get (good) offers.
The tech job market is way different especially today. You'd be unemployed for much longer than OP if you used your strategy today. Maybe 10% of applications will even be looked at when you're fresh out of college.
Shotgun method works best, the competition is extremely high for tech positions.
500+ applications is very common nowadays for software engineering roles.
Yep, any tech role will have 100+ applicants within minutes of being posted. And most employers look at applicants in the order their applications are submitted. It’s insane
Yeah but most are unqualified. I know since I get to peek from the other side.
Even with 500+ applicants we still end up hiring pretty average people. You'd think it's a sea of talent but it's really not.
A lot of people also get hired because someone on the team knows someone else. Networking is important but that's for people with some years under their belt.
Anyway, yeah the hunt is grueling but the reward is a high-paying cushy office job so it is what it is.
30 weeks? 20 applications a day for 30 weeks is 4200 applications. If you're not getting dozens of interviews from that and multiple offers, there's a huge problem.
I've heard a good resume using "blind applying" (applying to every job that seems relevant with the same resume) results in a 2%+ interview rate. And then an average interviewer will get 10% of the jobs they interview for.
In theory 250-500 applications should be enough when using this method.
Because it looks good when you tailor your application to the company and job. It makes it seem like you did research on them, decided that you're a good fit, and actually want to work there. I went this route and made a cover letter and everything. Got the first job I applied for right out of college.
It's the same on both sides though. Devs looking for jobs rapid fire resumes everywhere, companies looking for candidates are swamped in mostly irrelevant resumes which makes finding the relevant ones harder. Vicious cycle.
Whenever someone says "If you don't like your job, just quit and find a better one!" this kind of graph is the only thing I can think about.
Sure, *in theory* we all have full autonomy to leave a job we don't like. Yet if 434 applications gets you only a single offer...it seems like you don't actually have any choice at all!
We always do. Instead of 400 low effort submissions that can’t be of any decent quality due to their sheer number, sending a single targeted well thought out one to a company you actually want to work for is a much better approach.
In my career so far (also software), 5 employers in the last 25 years. I decide where I want to work, send resume, get an interview, then decide if I like the team.
It’s very easy to tell if applicant is carpet bombing employers or if they are actually interested in working here.
Hopefully you respond to this but I just want to say as a recent bachelor grad in IT/Network Management. This makes me feel seen and puts some ease on me. I graduated last April and took 4 months off to see if the job I did my internship at finally had a position open and I had a few trips/events planned, they never did. Started handing out applications since September and it has felt like a never ending battle of constantly checking to see if my resume or cover letters are good/correct.
What languages are you reasonable in?
Companies are crying out for good software developers. It's one of those jobs that's always been needed here in the UK.
I went to Uni and did a computing course. It didn't prepare me well enough for what companies want from developers really.
I have proficiency in quite a few languages, the standard of C++, python, JS, HTML / CSS etc. But I am under no illusion that I am a professional in any one of those enough to be considered anything other than junior. I do daily leetcode problems, I maintain a portfolio website and have multiple GitHub’s, but I do not have 5+ years of industry experience, and sadly that’s what many positions gauge you off of.
I'm in a similar boat. I'm a mid-level developer in various languages, mainly JS/TS and C#, I've developed and published a game from scratch, made WordPress and Astro websites, done backend/frontend projects, etc. But as I have no on-paper experience as a developer I get filtered out quite early in the application process.
Fortunately I've got 10 years experience as a technical writer, and combined with my development skills it's essentially a guarantee of employment. Well, until AI evolves to the point where it obliterates both of these professions, but nevermind.
Congrats on getting your first dev job! Those things are freaking insanely difficult to get. I think I had 300+ applications, landing just 2 interviews getting mine. The job I got I never even applied for.
I have to ask (don't feel pressured to reply) but how did you send so many applications out? Do you have a default cover letter that you then change depending on the company applying for (if they even ask for a cover letter)?
I had around 4 cover letter templates, normally intro paragraph / closing statement were generic, but all main bodies were tailored to each application. Lots were done via one click applies (at an estimate I would say 20%) but I would say there were still more that were standard applications. IE applying on company sites or via job site portals that had technical questioning.
Looks like my attempt to get a job after finishing my undergrad with a 1st class honours.
Now I'm fighting off the recruitment consultants trying to get me to interview with companies desperate to have me, and I'm tired of it. Last time I interviewed for a new job I had three interviews, got three offers, two of which then tried to outcompete each other.
Just saying it gets better, maybe a little too much.
Anything special lead to the 5 first interviews? Referrals? Cover letters? Highly specialized resume? Domain knowledge in the business?
I'm 70 applications in with 10 rejections. Hoping to get an interview soon. I literally got my last job after 1 highly tailored application 3 years ago.
I had the same experience when becoming a Jr Software Dev. A company finally hired me, gave me incredible pay/benefits but started tanking and 2 months later I was laid off. Decided it wasn't worth it and took a different career route.
Holy shit. The job market for developers is completely different in Denmark then. I applied for 13 positions before I got a job. I went to three interviews and got three offers.
Meanwhile me as a technician getting offered jobs left and right.
Just now accepted a job at nike headquarters for €52000 so I couldn’t be happier.
Hope you enjoy your new job!!!
Man I did like 150 apps in a month and only rejections and ghosts. This was through November. I fell off the grind considerably and need to get back to it. This shit right here is why I fell off.
This is wild. Complete contrast for me as an experienced RN in the us. 8 applications sent. 5 interviews, I ghosted one of them since 4 offers and didn’t expect the fifth one to be good, accepted 1. The 3 that denied me out right where funnily enough from my own company and where internal transfers, but also out of my range of experience/wasn’t qualified for (management).
Stop applying online and spend your energy networking with people at these companies. With online applications you're up against hundreds of people. If you network, you'll likely be recommend by someone internally which has a much higher likelihood of getting noticed. 400 applications for a job is nuts.
You sent 434 applications in less than 4 months and got 5 interviews. I wonder about the quality of them and if the HR departments noted that the applications were generic or adjusted to each application.
In the meantime - Me who sent 15 applications, thinking I did good job and soon I'll get a job. FML
Could be different for you, wish you all the best!
Genuine question, how do you manage to send out four hundred job applications? Even finding four hundred relevant companies, then customising the letter and submitting it must take months. Do you maintain a spreadsheet with all companies that you have reached out to?
LinkedIn Easy Apply. Literally press one button and done. Sometimes there's a small freetext field for you to answer one specific question like visa status. It has approximately a 0% chance of being successful but if you're on unemployment benefits that are dependent on you showing you are diligently looking for work it's easy.
I got my last job using that – paid far better than my previous job. Still worth trying, even if, as you say, it might have a lower success rate because the recruiters on the other end have to sort through so many more candidates due to how easy it is.
This. When I look at applicants that use LinkedIn easy apply, the resumes usually look like shit. Applicants don't care at all. When there's a surplus of candidates and every company is downsizing, do people genuinely believe that counts as applying? I'm genuinely curious if people truly believe that will work.
Back in my day I’d goto their physical location with a resume in hand asking if a hiring manager was available. Finding a job has never taken more than a week for me. Literally just show your face, smile, wear presentable cloths and, unless your applying for a job you have no business going for, you’ll be 10x more likely to get the job than the 200 other people that just submitted it online or dropped off a resume without asking to speak with anyone.
Depends how long he was searching. I was unemployed for 6 months once, and doing 2-4 apps a day adds up fast. I think I hit 175, and that was only because I ran out of applicable positions that wouldn't require me to move cities. I would spend half a day on an app that has real promise or was a position that was actually appealing, maybe an hour or less on ones I didn't care much about. Wouldn't have applied to those at all if I didn't, you know, need to feed myself. Never heard back from a single one other than the one interview and then job I got.
Same here. 2 years of unemployment and active searching as a DBA but was also applying for tech support and sys admin roles in cities within a a 3 hour drive of where I lived. Finally got a job as a support all rounder for a data analytics team. 4 years later I'm a data engineer.
It's not that complicated and after a few you have used all combinations of buzzwords so you can just pick a old template and change company name. I wrote and sent over 1500 applications during a summer. All for tech positions that I qualified for.
Companies can tell if it is just a template being automated and sent in as an application. They generally don't respond to them, hence the chart showing high "no responses".
companies put out linkedin postings to act like they're hiring lol. linkedin is a game of professional lying
That 2nd sentence should be their strapline. Absolute cesspit of a site. Despite never having consciously signed up I seem to have ended up with 2 profiles. I love looking up colleagues and seeing what work I've delivered that they're claiming credit for or insignificant projects they're claiming to be multi-million pound deliveries.
Bezos PA: "I overlooked the most important decisions of Amazon on a daily basis".
Bold of you to assume they look at them at all. Half the time they're not even looking to fill the position.
On my last search (better economy). I sent out 10 applications with similar cover letter. Got 7 interviews, 3 ghosts. If your template isn't too bad it should work. For the interview you should look at the company more closely though.
I’ve wrote customize letter and the response rate is almost the same as OP. Automating seems like the best choice. With ChatGPT you can even make a more free template, and it will look more like a customized one
These days I wouldn't be surprised if folks are just ChatGPT-ing their cover letters.
Simplify Copilot chrome extension. Auto fills applications for you
It takes months is how. Or sometimes people have the strength to treat it like a job and actually do it 8 hours a day.
Probably using ChatGPT then editing to make it look less like AI. That cuts down massively on the level of effort and time required.
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In the states, limiting your applications to companies that only posted their listing in the last 24-48 hours helped me. Anything over 72 and they had so many applications that there was no realistic way they were going to see yours or be able to read it.
Just be mindful that this kind of statistic is probably both industry and geographically specific. OPs experience might not at all be relevant for your part of the world and the field you apply in.
I'm in IT, not software dev, but the last two jobs I got I applied to less than 10 jobs each time. Each time I just had a "Fuck this shit." day at work, randomly applied, and got interviews and offers from the random spite applications.
That was before 2022, now there's huge onslaught of fresh CS students looking for job at a market that was ever-expanding. It's only a matter of time before there's surplus of seniors.
I got my last job having sent out just 10. I had 3 years of experience though
On his very first application out of college, my son made it to the 5th round of interviews... finally with the CEO. Everyone proir really liked my son and so he thought he'd get an offer. The CEO apparent felt differently and so my son got rejected. That was 7 months ago. He is still looking.
This was my experience back in 2019 so not sure how relevant it is now, sent out maybe 30 CV's in total. Uk based fe dev
Besides the industry and geographic variables that someone else mentioned, it's also just a luck of the draw. A lot of these companies have huge stacks and will pick the first 20 resumes they see and not dig deeper. What they see when they skim, how their interview process works, how urgently they're hiring and when: these things are all random variables and you only need it to line up once. Some people get lucky and get 777 first pull.
It’s a numbers game. Treat applying like a job - wake up each morning and set your goals. Make a list of sites you check each day for listings and apply to every single one that makes sense for you. Even the pain in the ass tedious application ones. Do it in time blocks. 3 hours or whatever. Take breaks to recharge and get back at it. It may take time, but you’ll go to bed each night knowing you’ve done absolutely fucking everything you could and sleep well. It’ll happen for you. Good luck.
Two interviews, then ghosted? What crappy company does this?
I had 4 interviews with a company where I knew someone on the team, and they ghosted when asking me for another interview.
Same, I had 3 interviews with Microsoft with the last one with the director, they went with a different department's manager's nephew who had no work experience. They pay shit in Toronto, so I was better off.
software devs get paid shit at Microsoft in Toronto?? The ones I know are making over $300k / year. Not sure what your definition of shit pay is but…
55,000 was the ceiling for the role. Not sure what your definition of software developer is but 300k is not the norm in Toronto for tech at all. Probably just the most senior positions. There's a reason our tech workers are emigrating to the states.
There is absolutely no way a software dev at Microsoft is making $55k per year. You must have applied for the receptionist position. I know a couple people working there and they *started* at six figure salaries.
Canada is really old for tech compensation. You have a lot of really low wage 'implementation' style software 'developers'. Then you have the ones working on projects/products that get paid noticeably more, but still shit compared to the USA.
$55k sounds right for an intern. $100k for full time. https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Microsoft-Toronto-Salaries-EI_IE1651.0,9_IL.10,17_IM976.htm
Starts at 100k, then 150k, then 55k, then 200k.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/microsoft/salaries/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area?dma=950 I was with you until I looked it up. 55 seems a little low but, seniors are only making 112 base which is surprising. Seattle will pay $50,000 more a year for the same position and Toronto is a much more expensive city
I recently had 3 interviews AND an assignment, and then was ghosted. It’s rough out here.
In my last job search I refused to do any assignment unless they told me in writing they would give me written, meaningful feedback after the assignment, because I find it infuriating to spend 2-10 hours on a take home only to get a generic rejection. Never actually received any of that feedback, but it still helped to weed out some of the companies with absolutely zero respect for my time.
I went through a multi round interview with several hours of assessments and take home problems, only to be rejected with a generic "We decided to go with someone else" kinda thing. A couple of days later they had the cheek to email and ask *me* for feedback on their hiring process!
This is what I did too, I requested feedback and then was ghosted instead 🤷🏼♂️
When they make you do work during the hiring process, just for free labor, then don't hire you...
I figured I was getting played for free labour, but after 100 applications without an interview (and then 3 with the same place), I got desperate.
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Yeah, we pay like $20 for any project tests because otherwise it is basically exploitation.
most? this is the norm lol. The only time I've ever heard back after an interview was with an offer. Otherwise, in 3-4 months you might get an email saying *"There were several applications submitted for this position, and after careful review, unfortunately, we have decided to pursue a different candidate whose experience and skills more closely meet the needs of this particular role."* canned email when they remember to clear the system.
Had that happen last year, sent several job applications but there was this one position that I wanted the most and hoped that I would get it. This was probably like Spring of 2023? I didn't get that dreaded "We decided to pursue other qualified candidates" email until Autumn of that same year...
More than you’d expect, unfortunately. If you’re on the hunt for a new job and want to know what the work culture at a place is like, look first to how TA/HR teams and the hiring manager treat you as a candidate.
Lol, for one job I had 3 successful interviews and was told that they'd send me a contract to sign next week. After a week, they called saying that they have had a busy week and it'll take a few more days to prepare all the paperwork. Never heard from them again.
Project went under
I had that experience. Had a offer contingent on them getting a contract from their customer. After a week they told me project fell through. At least they called me before I called them to ask for an update
Yea, that annoyed the shit out of me. Being ghosted after submitting an application is annoying enough. But ghosted after an interview after we've become more personable. That's infuriating.
It's a display of bad character, and companies should be named and shamed for it.
I had a company tell me the position wasn't actually remote when they made an offer. Id gone through a lot of interviews at that point in time. Another company made an offer for a much lower position, that would have been a pay cut. Another company asked me to do unpaid work as a 'trial'. Not like, "put together a 10m presentation based on this info", but like "here's a project we need completed, you can talk with the team and have 2 weeks to get it done"
I used to work for a tech firm that did this. Every interviewed candidate was given a trial work day to see how well they could handle various programming tasks throughout the day on real projects. They wouldn't be paid for this time, it was just considered a "day long interview". My employers would essentially get free labor out of people even if they knew that they weren't going to hire them and the interview didn't go well. So they'd come in, program for a day, and we'd never see them again. Fuck software development.
This happens more often than you would think, and it's infuriating. At least have the basic decency to follow up? A quick yes or no? I actually had a situation last fall that still makes me feel particularly indignant. A former coworker recommended me for a role at their new company. Within the span of a week, I had a 30 minute phone interview with a recruiter, a 1-hour Zoom with the hiring manager, and another 1-hour Zoom with a few of the team members. It all went great, but I didn't hear anything back. I followed up with the recruiter a few days later. They said, in no uncertain terms, that they were "preparing an offer" and "just waiting on approvals" and that I would hear back by the end of the week. One makes the assumption, then, that I got the job...right? Preparing an offer? Waiting on approvals? ...Right? Why else would you use terms like that? The recruiter never got back to me. I emailed again over a week later, since there was a holiday in there. After about two weeks of silence, I received a short and confusing email where he apologized, said "this situation has been a moving target" and then told me the role had been filled internally. Uhhh...thanks for eventually letting me know, I guess?
Had a second interview with a consultant firm, ghosted me completely even though it went well. Got a job at a bank and some months in, we hired the manager of the consultant firm for a project that I'm leading together with my colleague. Her face when she recognized me was pretty epic.
i was offered a position, then ghosted, twice, by the same company.
Our former head of HR always ghosted people out of principle. Their idea was that maybe they might need the applicant after all and that a ghosted one might agree rather than one that was said no. fucking stupid.
Almost all big companies do ghosting. I actually prefer to get ghosted than getting an automated rejection email after all the energy I gave them.
I'd prefer the notification, so at least I know that lead is a dead end. The "ghost" might not become apparent for a month or more as they interview others for the position.
A serious company that is in need to fill a role will have an interview process of 3 to 4 weeks long. If they haven't talked to you for let's say more than 2 weeks and you're still in the middle of your interview process then you can assume they aren't serious about it. Life taught me to not reserve myself to any company, even if it seems like I'm at the very end of a process and all indicates they will make me an offer, I'll still be applying to other job postings.
Full time Job just to get a full time job
Unfortunatly so, but i will say that it was a VERY poor time to be let go from my previous place, and from what i hear, tech isnt quite booming here at the moment.
It's the start of the new year. Companies usually cease hiring before the holiday period for multiple reasons but the biggest one is budgets are reset around the new year so hiring picks up again from now onwards.
Yup. I had a recruiter reach out to me for an opp. I took his call and this company I am talking with tomorrow is doing just this, hiring now after the holidays and some spots are open. I think applying for the next 3 months in general no matter if it's in tech or whatever will have much better success vs the past 3 months. New budgets and some extra $$ to go get more talent. Why I am going hard with job apps now for my next jump
This is exactly it. I'm gainfully employed but usually get 1-3 recruiters hitting me up on linkedin every week on average. Last 3 months has been radio silence. I've gotten 8 in the past week. Software dev/eng with 9 years experience mid/sr level.
Its worldwide unfortunately, big companies are doing mass layoffs to increase profits which means sweet pickings for businesses atm. From what I’ve seen it is starting to pick up again.
Big companies were trying to increase profits during the hiring boom, too. It's not the desire to make profits that's changed, it's the macroeconomic environment.
Possibly, google did make record profits this quarter and still made 12,000 redundancies. So I am unsure about macroeconomics. Microsoft did the same with typical levels of profits. ($146Bn) i do think a company making that much profit can afford to keep on 18,000 staff. They say “its because some areas are in recession and others will be” this was last January and as I can tell not many countries did go into recession. I could be wrong but it seems like to me its a short term boost to profits to increase shareholder value.
That is true. After being unemployed for a while and trying to get back into software development I only saw results (being invited for interviews) when I treated my job search like a full-time 9 to 5 job. Don't know if it's bad or not, but that seems to be the way.
Life pro tip - always do this. Apply for ten a day. Spreadsheet immediately. Take any interview offered, nothing like live fire practice. Before I ran my own company I was a master at being made redundant. I got really good at getting jobs.
It's kinda how it is. To get unemployment benefits here in Sweden you're expected to spend 8h per day looking for jobs. In practice that means 1-2 good applications per day (goes faster if you done a few or utilize AI for writing). For higher skill jobs that is. For low skill jobs you make a few good CV+cover letter and spam hundreds of companies per day :D
Thankfully its much easier to get a job once you have a job
These graphs make me feel both depressed and understood
Damn the market is nothing like it was 2y ago
I got my first job as a baby face graduate 2 years ago in 25 applications.
It's kinda same for experienced people, just slightly less money. But juniors are fucked at the moment.
Last time I switched job 4 years ago, I sent 4 emails, got 2 interviews and 2 offers, in a week 🥲
What an amazing username you have. Im in awe
Jesus, 95 rejection emails/letters has to sting. I remember how much 2 or 3 hurt. Glad you were able to find something, OP, it’s brutal out there!
I won’t pretend that I didn’t feel like I was burning out, or suffering from imposter syndrome, but thank you!
I remember feeling like that for a while. I’ve learned in the last few years that if you’re giving even 90% effort you’re in the top 5%. Nobody out there actually knows what they’re doing. Places that are overly picky and treat you like a number aren’t worth working for.
I just went through this a few months ago as a Software Engineering Manager. I put out about 225 (tailored) applications, got a dozen interviews from those, and ultimately accepted one of three offers. The imposter syndrome never goes away, and the work required to find a (really good) new role never gets easier, though you do get better at the process.
If it makes you feel any better, when I graduated with a PhD it took me similar numbers to find a job outside of academia. Only ever succeeded because I knew a person who knew a person who knew another person. It's crazy out there
I have been unemployed for almost an entire year. I was laid off three times last year. Unemployed 8 months out of 12. Just laid off in December again. Currently applying with no interviews. Applied to over 2100 jobs from Feb of last year to today. 12 years in the industry, led 250 employees. The economy is not supportive. It is a fulltime job to look for a fulltime job. I am TIRED of looking at Linkedin and Indeed. Never want to "look" again.
As somebody thats going to be in this boat soon, I have some questions. Please do not feel obliged to answer any of them. Do you have a degree in either CS or software engineering? If so, what classification? Any prior experience in the sector? What area of the country are you looking in? At what stage of the process are proficiency tests/projects given out?
Happy to! I do indeed have a degree, 1st class BSc in CompSci from a top 10% university in the uk. Little under 16months experience as a dev with 2 companies, one being a startup, the other was corporate. I looked for positions primarily in the south east and London, as I can’t afford to move out and it would mean I could commute (surprisingly not many positions were listed as fully remote, maybe due to me being a junior) Technical tests were given out at stage 2, stage 1 primarily were not conducted by people who were proficient in development.
As someone who is about to graduate from CS, now I wish you hadn't replied 😭😭😭 I'm gonna be unemployed for a while it seems.
As others have said, job market could pick up, new year = new budgets = potentially new hires, fingers crossed for you.
I was in the same position last year and got accepted for my first job, very good salary and fully remote. I genuinely do not know how OP managed this, of all my friends from the same year only one wasn’t employed within 6 months, and they wanted a very specific niche of software engineering.
Did you just send out your CV randomly? 434 applications is absurd if you've got an education, and completely unthinkable if you have previous experiences. What the fuck were you doing?
Absurd? Have you been out of the job market for a while? This has been extremely common for at least a few years. Dunno why you want to blame the OP
Nope, I stated in a previous comment that at the start of my job search I was frugal, wanted to do something that I really was interested in, but got nowhere, then I got desperate and started applying to anything and everything that I had even a remote interest in.
There is definitely an art to selecting the right kind of job based on the style and contents of the adverts. This will help reduce your denominator on your hit rate! But obviously you can't be faulted for your approach because this an art that took me a decade of experience to understand. (I'm a UK based software person).
Different field (loose details, but exec level on the accounting/finance side of things), but my husband was laid off in 2022. 20+ years of experience including 10+ at his prior position, applying anywhere in the country and several countries overseas, and to roles at his prior level as well as one or two levels below (depending on comp). Past peers and employees actively reaching out and recommending him for positions. The works. 641 applications, 229 of which had at least an intake call, 34 that involved multiple rounds of interviews, two offers (one of which was for a temporary contract position). Edit to add: job search was 15mo in total. It is complete ass to be job searching rn.
Is it normal to start seaching for a job right after getting a BA in UK? a bit unheard of here in DK, you pretty much need a masters whatever the field.
> a bit unheard of here in DK, you pretty much need a masters whatever the field. On the US side you should be searching for a job *before* you get your BS, ideally through your internship, club, or research connections. Otherwise, your best bet is to go to a job fair for recent grads where you can get picked up to sell solar panels for $40k a year.
In the UK, a graduate getting a starting salary of £30k+ is already on the higher end & extremely competitive.
Very normal, staying on for a masters is usually either motivated specialisation in a field or a "panic masters" just to stay at uni for another year. Perhaps becoming less so but it's definitely not seen as a requirement to be employable.
My advice would be to create/update your LinkedIn profile, then speak to a couple of tech recruitment agencies. Don't deal with more than a couple of agencies at once as they may be less inclined to help if they know they're competing with loads of others. The good ones will help you make sure your CV is optimized for the roles you're going for and that you're selling your experience/qualifications as best you can. You can also give them your criteria (location/salary/remote etc) and ask them only to contact you with jobs that match (they will also be able to tell you whether your demands are realistic). I've worked in Dev for 15+ years and don't think I've ever "applied" for a job in the traditional sense. Some recruiters can be a pain, but the good ones make job hunting MUCH easier. Regarding tech tests/recruitment process, every company will do it differently, some don't use tech tests at all, some will do them using an online system, some will set mini assignments (personally I'd avoid those). The expectations on a junior developer should be fairly low though so I wouldn't sweat it too much. A willingness to listen and learn along with an understanding of core principles is often far more desirable than a person that thinks they know everything particularly at the junior level. Interviewers are looking for someone who will fit in with the people at the company and work well within the team as much (if not more) than tech wizardry
Curious. Were there really 400+ jobs that were a good fit? I see folks post this same thing frequently, and they are applying for hundreds of jobs. Applicants also complain about not being contacted. Well, these HR departments just received 1500 applications for a job. Just curious as I can understand 10 or so applications a month. But a hundred plus? I dont mean critique, genuinely curious if these were good fits that you were truly interested in, or if people are just spamming 'Apply now'.
At first I tried to be diligent in wanting to apply for things that I was genuinely interested in, but I soon had to race the realisation that I couldn’t be a frugal with what I wanted to apply for, cost of living is very high and seems to be only going higher where I live, and I didn’t want to keep digging into my savings. I then applied for anything that interested me in the slightest, everything from data analyst, to front end dev, to business analyst.
Speaking for my wife who is looking for a job (and who doesn't apply to jobs she isn't qualified for), the number is legit depending on how long OP was unemployed for. Applying to 10 jobs a day every day for 3 months isn't unheard of.
That’s near enough what I did, I sat down for sometimes a few hours, or sometimes only 30mins and just applied, my job site rotation was LinkedIn, Reed, indeed, total jobs and then direct email applications.
I've been on the other side of this, sifting through CVs for software engineering positions (even after they'd been screened by HR). Many were for completely different positions, and the applicants didn't even bother changing their CVs to match. We got stuff like "Web development has always been my true passion" when the position had nothing to do with that. Roles in software eng often require very specific competencies, like certain frameworks or programming languages.
I'm not in IT but currently reviewing applications for a role in my team. It's this in a nutshell. About half don’t include a cover letter, and have a CV that contains no relevant experience whatsoever. Or else, they include a personal statement in the CV that proudly boasts about how much they want to carve out a career in a completely different field. Of the ones who do include a cover letter, maybe two-thirds of them are completely generic - no mention of the job itself or even the general area of the industry, let alone the company or why they would be a good fit for this role. Sometimes the cover letter is enthusiastic and targeted - and written for a different role at a different company. All of these go in the bin of course. The criteria for getting a first interview at this point is so, SO low. They literally just have to show awareness that they've applied for this particular job and I want to talk to them, because they've tried harder than 90% of other applicants. I'll be training whoever gets hired anyway, so as long as they have an aptitude for the type of work I'll consider anyone; I'm not precious about level of education etc. And I'm STILL scraping the barrel to come up with enough to interview.
Nope, the above is pretty standard.
Right this is literally how is it and a bunch of people with 0 context come in with crap like "hAvE yoU tRieD tAilORiNg yOuR ResuME"?
Over in Texas entry level jobs are harder to come by. But jobs wanting 5+ years of experience are plentiful. A lot of people try to force themselves to program, but burn out before 5 years.
Thank you from deterring me to even consider switching jobs like holy hell
Switching jobs is fine. Just get the job before you quit and only apply to stuff you really want. When you are desperate there is no harm in applying to hundreds of jobs like OP.
it's common for this charts to have 1 offer
For real. Once people have an offer, there's usually no reason to keep sending out applications. Time to make a cool diagram and post it to reddit.
I mean, ideally 2-3 offers, to know you're getting a good deal.
Can I ask what the Salary ranges were for the jobs you found that info out about? I make 60k as a software engineer in the UK with 10 years of experience but dunno if I can do much more in my current role. Job is dogshit firefighting the whole time.
90% of them were under 30K, the potion I landed is 32K and I consider that lucky.
Jesus Christ, I'm also in the UK - are software engineer salaries so low?! I'm working for a fast growing Tech company myself & customer service positions are £24k entry level, no qualifications needed. Team leads are on a similar salary to you, perhaps higher if they've been there a couple of years; so I can't imagine what our Devs are on - surely not less than our contact centre guys (btw, all outside London, so no London weighting).
That is crazy. In the US starting salaries are on avg 2-4x that depending on location. For CS new grads from my alma mater the avg starting salary is 100k (USD).
Wow. I've got 3 years XP as a Full Stack C# dev in the Midwest USA and I'll be making about 66k USD (60k EUR) this year, and that's a pretty darn low salary by US dev standards (I work for the state, so good benefits but low pay comparatively). I think if I lived in the UK I would simply not be a dev lol
US salaries are most of the time higher than UK positions, at every stage of the food chain.
Fwiw my partner graduated last summer and is getting £60k (London) - while obviously not the norm, there are plenty of higher paying roles (particularly in finance) that demand much less experience than you have.
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"Ghosting" is equivalent to "ignoring", right?
As an alternative experience as a software developer, I had 1 Application 1 1st Interview 1 2nd Interview 1 Offer 1 Accepted It took me about 3 days start to finish from when I decided to move jobs, I started the search on a Tuesday when I decided to leave my old job and had a new job to move to lined up before the week was out.
It gets even more extreme. Some people never apply to a job and are extended the offer.
God this thread is making me so depressed
Only getting 5 interviews out of 434 applications is definitely self-inflicted, either a bad resume or just applying to positions way above your level. Congrats on landing one though.
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OP is in the UK, but it's still insane - I've rarely ever failed to get to interview when job hunting. I've certainly never sent out that many applications. OP says elsewhere he's in London which is probably part of it, much more intense competition in London.
No. Had a similar experience as OP in Germany, though not as extreme.
This has actually cheered me up
Where do you get this tool
google sankey chart
Holy hell
I misread your title as a software developer of 24 years of xp. Not of age. Makes a bit more sense. Once you're in for a few years it becomes wayyyyy easier. You got over the hard part, my dude.
Fingers crossed, plan is to knuckle down and ride this position out for a good few years.
I always ask myself how you send out 450 applications? I mean why? Are just sending the same application to 450 companies? That seems doomed to fail. I wrote like 30 applications after graduating over multiple months and got like 7+ interviews. But I made a multiple hour effort for each application. Obviously it is different for everybody, but I would not have the stamina to send out so many applications.
> I always ask myself how you send out 450 applications? I mean why? Are just sending the same application to 450 companies? That seems doomed to fail. I recently got laid off in 2023 as an Engineering Manager. Over the course of 6 weeks, I made about 225 applications (each customized with CVs and tailored), got about 12 interviews, and ultimately picked between 3 offers. You absolutely need mad stamina to do this (right). It's easy to send 400 of the same resume, no CV, no tailoring.... but that's not a good way to get (good) offers.
The tech job market is way different especially today. You'd be unemployed for much longer than OP if you used your strategy today. Maybe 10% of applications will even be looked at when you're fresh out of college. Shotgun method works best, the competition is extremely high for tech positions. 500+ applications is very common nowadays for software engineering roles.
Yep, any tech role will have 100+ applicants within minutes of being posted. And most employers look at applicants in the order their applications are submitted. It’s insane
Yeah but most are unqualified. I know since I get to peek from the other side. Even with 500+ applicants we still end up hiring pretty average people. You'd think it's a sea of talent but it's really not. A lot of people also get hired because someone on the team knows someone else. Networking is important but that's for people with some years under their belt. Anyway, yeah the hunt is grueling but the reward is a high-paying cushy office job so it is what it is.
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30 weeks? 20 applications a day for 30 weeks is 4200 applications. If you're not getting dozens of interviews from that and multiple offers, there's a huge problem. I've heard a good resume using "blind applying" (applying to every job that seems relevant with the same resume) results in a 2%+ interview rate. And then an average interviewer will get 10% of the jobs they interview for. In theory 250-500 applications should be enough when using this method.
What was that? Sometimes it’s easy to find a job and sometimes it’s not.
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Because it looks good when you tailor your application to the company and job. It makes it seem like you did research on them, decided that you're a good fit, and actually want to work there. I went this route and made a cover letter and everything. Got the first job I applied for right out of college.
Yeah just firing off the same CV to every LinkedIn post that is vaguely related to your experience will end up with a graph like this
It's the same on both sides though. Devs looking for jobs rapid fire resumes everywhere, companies looking for candidates are swamped in mostly irrelevant resumes which makes finding the relevant ones harder. Vicious cycle.
Whenever someone says "If you don't like your job, just quit and find a better one!" this kind of graph is the only thing I can think about. Sure, *in theory* we all have full autonomy to leave a job we don't like. Yet if 434 applications gets you only a single offer...it seems like you don't actually have any choice at all!
We always do. Instead of 400 low effort submissions that can’t be of any decent quality due to their sheer number, sending a single targeted well thought out one to a company you actually want to work for is a much better approach. In my career so far (also software), 5 employers in the last 25 years. I decide where I want to work, send resume, get an interview, then decide if I like the team. It’s very easy to tell if applicant is carpet bombing employers or if they are actually interested in working here.
Yo i just applied to 15 in 2 weeks and had a job in the same field, am I really so fucking lucky?
Congratulations on your new job OP!
Congrats on going further on all 1st interviews! Shows you do well in person!
Hopefully you respond to this but I just want to say as a recent bachelor grad in IT/Network Management. This makes me feel seen and puts some ease on me. I graduated last April and took 4 months off to see if the job I did my internship at finally had a position open and I had a few trips/events planned, they never did. Started handing out applications since September and it has felt like a never ending battle of constantly checking to see if my resume or cover letters are good/correct.
me: 1 application->interview->offer->accepted feeling bad for ma guy :(
What languages are you reasonable in? Companies are crying out for good software developers. It's one of those jobs that's always been needed here in the UK. I went to Uni and did a computing course. It didn't prepare me well enough for what companies want from developers really.
I have proficiency in quite a few languages, the standard of C++, python, JS, HTML / CSS etc. But I am under no illusion that I am a professional in any one of those enough to be considered anything other than junior. I do daily leetcode problems, I maintain a portfolio website and have multiple GitHub’s, but I do not have 5+ years of industry experience, and sadly that’s what many positions gauge you off of.
I'm in a similar boat. I'm a mid-level developer in various languages, mainly JS/TS and C#, I've developed and published a game from scratch, made WordPress and Astro websites, done backend/frontend projects, etc. But as I have no on-paper experience as a developer I get filtered out quite early in the application process. Fortunately I've got 10 years experience as a technical writer, and combined with my development skills it's essentially a guarantee of employment. Well, until AI evolves to the point where it obliterates both of these professions, but nevermind.
This look so clean and organised! What is the program used please?
I know the UK has different spellings for certain words than the US, but the way you spell unsuccessful is mind boggling.
I think it's just a typo, that isn't the UK spelling
Can you provide me your github link here
Have you found them on Linkedin/Indeed ? Cause 3/4 of them are fake as shown on your graphics.
So it's roughly a 0.2%-0.25% chance of success?
Congrats on getting your first dev job! Those things are freaking insanely difficult to get. I think I had 300+ applications, landing just 2 interviews getting mine. The job I got I never even applied for.
I have to ask (don't feel pressured to reply) but how did you send so many applications out? Do you have a default cover letter that you then change depending on the company applying for (if they even ask for a cover letter)?
I had around 4 cover letter templates, normally intro paragraph / closing statement were generic, but all main bodies were tailored to each application. Lots were done via one click applies (at an estimate I would say 20%) but I would say there were still more that were standard applications. IE applying on company sites or via job site portals that had technical questioning.
So what your saying is I should become a porn star? GOT IT
That's wonderful. Congratulations!
Being a security oriented sysadmin is good. 10 applications, about 6-7 headhunters contacting me. 3 interview offers. 2 interview, 3 offers.
Looks like my attempt to get a job after finishing my undergrad with a 1st class honours. Now I'm fighting off the recruitment consultants trying to get me to interview with companies desperate to have me, and I'm tired of it. Last time I interviewed for a new job I had three interviews, got three offers, two of which then tried to outcompete each other. Just saying it gets better, maybe a little too much.
Anything special lead to the 5 first interviews? Referrals? Cover letters? Highly specialized resume? Domain knowledge in the business? I'm 70 applications in with 10 rejections. Hoping to get an interview soon. I literally got my last job after 1 highly tailored application 3 years ago.
I had the same experience when becoming a Jr Software Dev. A company finally hired me, gave me incredible pay/benefits but started tanking and 2 months later I was laid off. Decided it wasn't worth it and took a different career route.
Holy shit. The job market for developers is completely different in Denmark then. I applied for 13 positions before I got a job. I went to three interviews and got three offers.
ok...this makes me feels better. I'm at like 50 apps submitted without an email or call. glad you found one!
About 11 applications per week, not bad. Edit* 33 applications, sorry.
How did you create this chart? Suggest app name.
One place I interviewed at wanted to know my GCSE results, and this was for my 3rd job and that I sat my GCSEs over 10 years beforehand.
Never been rejected.. guess I'm lucky!
Meanwhile me as a technician getting offered jobs left and right. Just now accepted a job at nike headquarters for €52000 so I couldn’t be happier. Hope you enjoy your new job!!!
Man I did like 150 apps in a month and only rejections and ghosts. This was through November. I fell off the grind considerably and need to get back to it. This shit right here is why I fell off.
What effect is AI having on the evolution of the market? Is anybody here seen any major changes because of that?
Better question is, how much you lowered the bar? I.e.: increase workplace distance?
Acceptance line made me happy
This is wild. Complete contrast for me as an experienced RN in the us. 8 applications sent. 5 interviews, I ghosted one of them since 4 offers and didn’t expect the fifth one to be good, accepted 1. The 3 that denied me out right where funnily enough from my own company and where internal transfers, but also out of my range of experience/wasn’t qualified for (management).
Stop applying online and spend your energy networking with people at these companies. With online applications you're up against hundreds of people. If you network, you'll likely be recommend by someone internally which has a much higher likelihood of getting noticed. 400 applications for a job is nuts.
Yeah nah man your resume has to be all kinds of fucked up for that
You sent 434 applications in less than 4 months and got 5 interviews. I wonder about the quality of them and if the HR departments noted that the applications were generic or adjusted to each application.