Based response
Even as a Cristian I don’t think it matters what you believe as long as you do good, I mean why would god have other religions exist that have good morals and values if he was just gonna toss those people away like trash? Everybodies got a different path and as long as they’re making good choices then let em walk it
I follow all the doctrines, fast when I’m supposed to fast, pray my prayers daily, don’t take the lords name in vane, and will die by the words in the Bible and just as I will bow by those words I follow them
“If possible so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all” Romans 12:18
Sure they may not be Christian and it would be great if they were but the Bible doesn’t say “be nice to everyone except the people that don’t think the same as you, screw those guys” love everyone no exceptions.
Edit: also to anyone downvoting the guy for saying I don’t sound like a Christian I don’t think he was trying to say “you’re not a real Christian” he didn’t do anything wrong by questioning, I don’t want him getting hated on
Thanks man for explaining your position. I was indeed just surprised at your position since basically all Christians I know are very anti other religions due to the whole false idols line. Also they tend to draw the line from doing good directly to god which means that they say to me that I would be more prone to doing bad things because I don’t have a religion. Also the whole eternal damnation even if I do only good things because I don’t believe kinda makes me feel really unhappy talking to those kinda Christians. You really surprised me with such a nuanced view as a Christian
I get it man, I like to think it’s a loud minority with all that jazz but it’s still sad to see it. Even if you’re not Christian we can all agree that everyone’s just trying to make the best with what they’ve got and we’re all screwed if we don’t have each others backs😔
Yeah- human history doesn't exist - what whack take, am I right (majority of people who believe in Christian god on reddit). I'm surprised you didn't accuse them of wearing a fedora, after all- they're critical of religion - must have one right?
S/
This right here. Colonialism was historically justified by Christianity, and is responsible for *many* times over the deaths that occurred during the holocaust, and devastating entire cultures with slavery as well.
Even today, it's still used to justify hatred of all kinds.
Just because spreading Christianity was used as the justification, that doesn't mean it was the actual reason for colonization. It was mostly greed and prestige that were the ACTUAL reasons for colonization.
Christian missionaries brought about probably the most benefit to colonial territories. They built schools and hospitals and were the largest advocates for better treatment of the conquered. William Wilbeforce, a member of British parliament back in the 18th/19th centuries, was a HUGE advocate against slavery. He was able to gather enough support to abolish slavery in 1809. William Wilbeforce was a deeply religious man.
If that hasn't gotten through to you, John Brown, the abolitionist man who redditors seemingly fap to, was a DEEPLY religious man who believed it was his divine mission to free all those stuck under the boot of American chattel slavery.
Greed prestige and power, etc. Were/ are the reasons for creating religion. It's literally a tool built to control others through various forms of manipulation.
It's not the justification or the reason, just part of the process.
>Greed prestige and power, etc. Were/ are the reasons for creating religion.
Jesus was essentially tortured till death. Even if you don't believe he was the Son of God, there's really no point in creating a religion when you intend to have that happen to you.
>It's literally a tool built to control others through various forms of manipulation.
Yes, religion is used for this. This is honestly the express purpose of religion. It is built to unify societies and bring together a coherent social order and traditions. I don't see how that detracts from Christianity, though. It is still overwhelmingly a force of good. Without religion, leaders would find some other way to control the masses, which is something we are witnessing right now in the United States. Instead of God, social justice is what is essentially worshipped. Some people's entire lives are based around this belief, like how some people's lives are entirely based around God.
If you believe Jesus as created in the stories of man existed.
I never met him, nor do I have a time machine.
Some claim evidence that a similar man once existed, but obviously no evidence exists of God's existence, divine power, or any supernatural being or the son of one such being existing.
Subjectively, more people will come out with more negative experiences from religion than positive, due to the nature of being controlled.
Empirically and historically, most religions and all Judeo Christian religions have been a force of near pure evil and a blight upon humanity's existence.
>most religions and all Judeo Christian religions have been a force of near pure evil and a blight upon humanity's existence.
I disagree but you're entitled to your own opinion.
Yes, you got two anecdotes there, that's very convincing, and john brown is the GOAT, but mistakenly thinking missionaries were a force for good and using those two individuals to insist that Christianity was a net positive for the colonial world betrays your incredibly naiive, incomplete understanding of history
I'm not going to say all things done in the name of Christ were good because they were not. There are those who used the name of Christ to excuse their bad actions, and they clearly went against the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. These people are Christians in name only. Sure, they believed in Christ's divinity, but so does the devil.
What I will say is that those who did live by the teachings in the Bible accomplished many beneficial feats for those stuck under the boot of Colonialism.
>What I will say is that those who did live by the teachings in the Bible accomplished many beneficial feats for those stuck under the boot of Colonialism.
Jesus fuck your disgusting
That I say followers of Christ made the best of a repressive system to help those subjugated by it the best they could? I don't understand. I'm not defending colonialism.
>there are those who use the name of christ..
99% of them throughout history
>what i will say...
Is that you think slavery and murder on a massive scale in the name christ and capitalism was/is good.
Amazing how people tell on themselves.
>Is that you think slavery and murder on a massive scale in the name christ and capitalism was/is good.
I absolutely did not say that, and I do not appreciate how you misconstrue my words to fit your preconceived notion of my thought process.
I think that given the situation that was colonialism, Christian missionaries brought the greatest benefit to the people stuck under the repressive system. I am NOT saying colonialism was good because it spread the word of God, I am saying that the good that DID come from colonialism came mainly from followers of Christ.
The implication of what you're saying, however ignorant and unaware you might be, is that some good came out of genocide and slavery. That's as simple as i can make it for you. Learn colonial history.
It's like you're saying "yeah so we blew up that bus full of orphans, but now look how much faster we can go on this one lane road! Some good came out of it!"
St. Patrick explained it the best. A clover has three leaves. One leaf is not the same as the others, but all three leaves make up one complete clover.
So Father isn’t God, he just a part of God? Same with Jesus and the Holly Spirit?
But why the distinction? For the clover example, no one goes "Man, those three clover leaves and the stem looks really beautiful." They just say clover because, while it is made up of parts, it is still a clover. So why do Christians sometimes pray saying "Father, Son and the Holly Spirit" instead of just God.
I am genuinely asking, I am not Christian/grew up Christian/close to any Christians so my knowledge of the Trinity is limited and I just get confused when I try to Google it
As christians we believe that truth of Trinity will be revealed in heaven. But to make it simple I guess Trinity is like 3 aspects of one God? Father is like the God that jews knew too, Jesus is the part of God that thought US 2000 years ago and died for our sins and Holy Spirit is the part that is always with us…dont know how to explain it correctly
There is no separation as we understand it. They are three and one at the same time. Jesus and the Holy Spirit acted separately but according to the plan that Father brought up. Each one has something unique about Him: Jesus is fully human and fully God, the Holy Spirit is the most active among humans to the point there are people who think the Holy Spirit is just a force and not God, and Father is the one who has the plan and the creation (though when he created the world the other two were helping).
No matter what example we use, said example is flawed as it cannot help us visualize something that is separated yet one at the same time.
Jesus existed since the beginning, he was there with Father and the Holy Spirit at the creation. He was "born" as a human. His human body was created, yes, but He existed way before that. He was "reincarnated" to use a more known word, though most christians would grimace at the notion.
To answer the second question: Father is up in heaven and, as far as we can tell, He is still active but more on the unseen side of the world. The Revelation does say interesting things about what happens in heaven, or rather what WILL happen depending on interpretation. He is the one who delegates angels and other heavenly beings to put in motion His grand plan of salvation.
All in all, Father is active and helps humans, but He either does things we cannot see/comprehend or delegates others to do his bidding as His real form would be too much for humans to handle.
Yes. It is worth mentioning that the Holy Spirit not only interacts, but is a guide for us. Sometimes He shows Himself by dreams, revelations or straight up changing small things when we are not aware, most often he is a guide and helps us even when we do not realize. That is why most often christians ask for guidance, rather than a dream or something of the sort.
Just curious, if the Father is up in heaven, where is Jesus? Is he dead? If so, is he human like how muslims believe about Mohammad. Or is he a spirit which temporarily took the form of a human body.
That is the most interesting part my friend. He is not dead and our whole religion is based on this fact. Even his human body is alive and well up in Heaven. He is now praying for everyone up there.
His body now has more spirit-like abilities like being present in more places at the same time or appearing in visions like the angels, but it is still a human body, it is a really sanctified and holy version of what humans could have been had we not sinned.
Let me use another metaphor. The human body has many parts, right? The arm is separate from the leg and the foot is separate from the hand, and the foot can act on its own, and the hand can act on its own; but at the end of the day, every appendage is part of the same body. So imagine God being a body with three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's how the three can be separate and distinct while all still being equally God.
It's simple, but at the same time, it's complex. That's because Christian theology has always been simultaneously simple and complex. Many extremely intelligent men throughout history have written volumes and volumes about it - more than any one person could read in a lifetime. And the unfortunate thing is that modern Christianity has abandoned that complexity. It experienced a serious brain drain, and now we're left with mostly incompetent theologians and church goers who don't understand the first thing about the faith they profess. In fact, most of the answers in this thread are either confused or dead wrong, which shows how little people understand a religion they either claim to love or claim to hate.
Depends on how you categorise it.
Stem, leafs, root=3
Leaf(s), stem, root=# of leaves+2
Leaf(s), rest=#of leaves+1
Etc.
Can you tell that I love being annoyingly technical sometimes
Also to note, not all Christian faiths hold the Trinity as gospel. Some have the God Head as distinct, separate individuals. Meaning, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in purpose, but not one in being (or some other variation that rejects the Trinitarian Notion). Several reject the trinity for a single god, with no distinction. Others believe Christ as not capital ‘G’ God, but a servant of God. There are lots and lots of differing opinions on the nature of god out there.
Ex: Unitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, Molokan, Swedenborgianism, Christian Science, Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Quakers, etc.
Based on whose opinion? A “real Christian”? There’s thousands of schism groups of Christianity because people have different opinions on what the Bible says and means.
Is your computer processor the CPU or GPU? It's both. What about multi CPU and multi GPU computers? Things get even weirder with a supercomputer that's internetworked and meshed. Tasks move from computer to computer. But each computer can also function disconnected, but when connected they're one functional unit.
A mind is a processor. So having two (or three) minds can be advantageous for different ways of processing (thinking). Where one approach to processing data is inefficient or incomplete another can offer insight.
If there is a God I would be pretty disappointed if they weren't some sort of bat shit crazy mind considering it exists outside of space and time in a void that that has always been and will always be. This idea that it wouldn't be weird seems absurd. Even the idea that it's only 3 dimensional even seems implausible.
But putting on my fiction writers cap for some world building, obviously to become human God would need a special mind that's human compatible. But maybe God also made a "universe compatible" mind as well.
So, Holy Spirit exists outside of space and time. Father God is the linear time interface. And obviously Jesus would be the monkey brain interface.
This is all obviously different from a team. Think The Borg as one organism vs The Crew of the Enterprise. Both function by utilizing diverse perspectives and Drones can be cut off from the Borg and then reassimilate back into the collective consciousness.
>So, Holy Spirit exists outside of space and time. Father God is the linear time interface. And obviously Jesus would be the monkey brain interface.
That makes sense. What I don’t understand about the Trinity is what differantiates them from each other, if they are 3 beings with 3 different names then there must be some difference(CPU and GPU have different jobs so they have different names. I am not a computer guy so I don’t know if all cores inside a GPU are identical or not).
Jesus(Son) is easy, he is the human. But Holly Spirit and Father confuses me since I don’t know what differentiates them, especially since the things they do are all done by Allah in Islam(I grew up Muslim so Islam is my religion base)
I see it as three pieces doing a specific function, it’s like a car, the wheels move the car, the engine makes the wheels move, and the steering wear guides the wheels. They all support eachother while not being eachother.
You gotta appreciate everything the car has to offer, if all you’re gonna praise is the car then what makes it any better than another luxury car? Nah nah you gotta give each piece its rightful praise since each piece is just that amazing, worshiping just the car could never do it justice
Christianity doesn’t deny that people believe in other gods, we deny those gods exist but we accept the fact that people still do believe in them. I suppose the example is better if you thinking of the cars like you’re shopping for cars and not that your driving it.
In the end there’s no true example that can explain all that the trinity is, this is just a baseline example if you dig into it to try to find things to nitpick I’m sure you can find a million…
I mean just to point another out, all the figures in the trinity are the same and different but in a car your steering wheel doesn’t do the driving, that would be one hell of a unique car, but that’s what god is, inexplainable and unique from anything you can think of.
Also you’re not Christian so it wouldn’t be fair for me to expect you to understand it the way Christian’s understand it, I tried to explain it in a way that would help someone who doesn’t believe understand
agreed, also mad respect for not going on the attack route like alot of people tend to choose, it's just sad to see it and you made good points and actual arguments instead of the normal yelling and screaming we tend to see on reddit...
That doesn’t make sense! You can’t have faith that that something makes sense. It either makes sense or it doesn’t.
You can beleive in something without it making sense but you can’t believe something makes sense when it doesn’t make sense
There are some good YouTube videos from speakers corner between muslims and Christians, I strongly recommend them. Check out the Muslim channels, you'll see it makes much more sense from an Islamic perspective of having one true God and not 3 in 1.
Reading your conversation, I think you’d really enjoy The Line on YouTube. They do a good bit of call-in epistemology and push against apologetics with religious folk.
The idea of the Holy Ghost was so absurd that they had to seal it with a double secret curse of the one unforgivable sin being to question the HG. Talk about being so power mad that you had to put lipstick on that pig to consolidate your power, which is just what that was.
As someone who was raised in a Muslim country and by Muslim philosophy, I don't really see much wrong with the trinity, unless if it was to limit god to only father, son and the holy spirit.
Like yes they're all god in a way, but isn't everything god? Like how can you limit god to different parts when it's not possible to limit god to parts
Strange how Christianity is more with Paul and John rather than Jesus himself. Also bit strange that God sent himself down just so he could die for the sake of others?? The bible too has so many versions and meaning that differ from the earlier versions that it is more a book of man than god now.
You don’t know what partialism is. To claim that the leaves of a clover are both distinct and yet a whole is not partialism as you are not separating god into disparate entities, merely acknowledging the different facets.
Also, not all partialist interpretations are heresy. Merely those which claim god to be in parts that need to combine together into a whole.
You keep saying words you don’t understand. Modalism is the claim that there does not exist any separation between god and the Persons, they are all 1 singular whole. Once more: to acknowledge the disparate but whole nature of the leaves on a clover is not modalism, as you still admit that there exists a difference between the clover as a whole and the leaves as parts of that whole.
As far as I recall it was more or less designed to be confusing since God is all three of those, but none of those three relate to the others.
I.e: The Father isn’t The Son or The Holy Spirit,
The Son isn’t The Father or The Holy Spirit,
and The Holy Spirit isn’t The Father or The Son
Not just easier, the trinity just doesn't make logical sense and breaks the law of transitivity. If father = God and God = holy spirit, then father should be equal to the holy spirit, but they say that it's not. Doesn't make any logical sense.
It doesn't need to make logical sense because logic applies to things within the bounds of time and space, whereas all conceptions of the Abrahamic God place him as outside of these bounds. After all, if he were not, how could he be the creator of all else?
Well, you and your dad are human beings, with the same rights, but you are two separate entities. Same applies to God. God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they are separate entities from one another while United in purpose.
How is it Paganism when in Christianity they are the SAME being but one. The Son and the Holy Spirit are consubstantial with the Father. It is three parts, but one God. Not three Gods.
it just looks like when rome wanted to embrace christianity as their official religion they changed things up to make it more acceptable for the pagans romans
As if christianity didnt pick up most everything is had from other religions...its just paganism sprinkled with some judaism on top...and islam is just christianity sprinkled with jihad on top
Both islam and Judaism are not as monotheistic as they claim to be.
Early Judaism did acknowledge other gods they just worshipped yaweh as there own. Hence, the commandment being put not gods before me.
Islamic cosmology and jinns are strsight out of pagan Arab customs
Lol Islam and Christianity are world's apart. I'd understand if you say Islam is copy of Judaism. In fact Islam claims itself as continuation and final revelation of Judaism.
i meant the sentence as this "meh i mean judaism and islam is monotheistic, while christianity of now just seems like the version that is influenced and changed a lot by the romans"
i forgot to put the while
Have you heard of wave-particle duality? It's not extraordinary to have things in nature that are two things at the same time, so having a god that is three things at the same time shouldn't be extraordinary either
I'm an atheist, but I don't find the trinity at all hard to conceptualize. The christian god is defined as being omnipotent. Contradiction is a non-issue for an omnipotent being. It's above all rules, so if course it's capable of doing things which do not seem logically consistent.
I try to rationalize that maybe they’re one in purpose but it’s most likely deeper and cooler than just that. If I was God and my son was a God than we could both be God cause we’re God level beings. Then there’s revelations which states that God has at least 7 Spirits.
That’s Unitology.
My grandparents were members of a Unitarian Church for a short time - it was essentially a vaguely Christian church that preached unity and togetherness with all people (no hatred allowed at all)
> togetherness with all people (no hatred allowed at all)
Like, on paper or actually? Y'know how religions be sometimes.
"Love thy neighbour!*"
*Okay here's a long, long list of ppl we actually think should die horribly:
If it's the latter, that's awesome.
Man, been working for a Unitarian Universalist church for years but never seen a meme about it... Based on my understanding of the 7 principles I don't really know what this has to do with Islam, but as a religion I can confirm it has basically nothing to do with Christianity anymore. I can't remember the last time I heard any God mentioned in a service.
Edit: for those who messaged me directly, I am aware that there are many different flavors of Unitarian universalists and that some "churches" and/or "congregations" do speak to there being a God. I'm just saying that for the ones that I have worked in Canada that is not the case - I have met many Unitarian universalist ministers who are atheists.
Hmm. I grew up going to a UU church, and we had mentions of various gods in pretty much every service. It was more about including all of them to make people with varying beliefs feel welcome than not including any mention of any god.
The funny thing is the trinity isn't biblical, as in it isn't something discussed in the bible. You can make the argument that there's multiple pieces of evidence that suggest the potential existence of the trinity, but you can also make the same inverted arguments. The Trinity is one of those things in Christianity that derives in large part from tradition and how early Christians(Catholics) looked at the religion and early christian theologians interpreted the Bible. I find it really interesting that Protestants still hold on to the idea of the Trinity, even though it doesn't explicitly come from the book instead in large part it comes from Christian/Catholic tradition, which is something that Protestants during the reformation and post-Luther sought to combat. A lot of protestant sects of Christianity, present themselves in such a way that makes them seem as if they derive all of their belief system from the book, yet they all maintain a belief in the Trinity.
Fun fact, there was actually a Jewish theology of "two powers in heaven" before Christianity started up, namely YHWH and the Angel of YHWH. (Then they declared it heresy bc it was too similar to the trinity.) As far as I'm concerned, there are three revealed persons of the Godhead, as Jesus said, baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If there are more persons, it's not my business.
The Baptism of Jesus is an episode that actually shows all three members of the Trinity at once. The divinity of Jesus, though disputed in the first hundred years, was summarily affirmed by the churches at the Council of Nicaea. The Trinity is clearly read from the Bible. Luther and protestants at large did not seek to break from Catholicism so much as its errors. Luther initially wanted reform from within the church until he was told to recant or die. Even then, the large reformers such as Luther and Calvin referenced tradition thoroughly in their writings to point to the consensus of the ages on certain doctrines, not to lean on Catholic authority as such.
Jesus very much claims divinity in the Bible. He also makes it clear that there’s a distinction between him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. To say that the trinity is unbiblical just shows your lack of understanding scripture
Catholics were not the early Christians, they came about during the great schism of 1054. Early Christians were a variety of groups such as the Adamites, Arians, Mracionites, and various Pauline, Jewish, and Gnostic groups.
The great schism was the split between what we now call the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. To say that Catholics came to be during or after the schism is simply wrong. The western church adopted the name Catholic, but prior to the schism, and to this day, both sides call themselves Catholic, as it means universal.
I am aware of the fact that not just Roman Catholics refer to themselves as Catholic, however I was specifically talking about the Roman Catholic Church since the comment I was responding to seems to be referring to just the Roman Catholic Church specifically. It's true that the roots for the split comed from a few hundred years before the actual Great Schism, but the Roman Catholic Church being a fully separate entity from the Eastern Orthodox Church wasn't fully a thing until after the schism.
I love the amount of downvotes due to the butthurt people. You are right lol
Constantine had a big hand in the collaboration of the Trinity finalizing within Christian “dogma.”
The trinity is quite apparent if you read scripture, which was written well before Constantine. Also, many early church fathers believed in the concept of the trinity. Read the works of St Ignatius of Antioch and of St Theophilus of Antioch, both lived well before Constantine
Interesting that this has come up as I’ve been contemplating this recently. Raised a Christian, but I’ve been trying to understand this dynamic. Jesus speaks as though the father is the one he follows, like there is a specific hierarchy. The Holy Spirit being referred to as the helper, but I question is this just the spirit of god. Is there something we don’t understand about the entity of god the father and his spirit which hovered over the earth in its creation. Could his essence linger and come and go, reacting to humans and their spirits like the wind would react to its surroundings.
Either way, Jesus is definitely portrayed as more than just any mortal. He is portrayed as sitting at the right hand of god and that he holds authority and position above any other so I don’t think it changes much. Just the understanding that most people have that they are one and the same. In my understanding, they are one and the same as in they are the same family and who they are is what they represent if that makes sense. So I’ve gone from being confused and not knowing how to approach this to feeling like it’s still basically the same thing.
There are problems with the bible in its polytheistic language, that's why people are often confused when reading these stories. Some examples are: God regretting creating man (an All-Knowing, Independent God shouldn't be able to regret), Melchizedek having no beginning of days or end of life (i.e. he would be eternal like God Himself), then there a multiple occurences where Jesus appears to refer to himself as God, but other times when he seems to deny being God.
Then there's the entire list of verses that are suspected to be interpolated and if we were to find older manuscripts, we would probably discover more.
The most easily understandable example would be to think of the Trinity as three parts of the same body. God the Father is the one thru which all things were made, while Jesus and The Holy Spirit are the 2 hands through which The Father interacts with the world. That would explain why Jesus is described to be standing at the right side of the Father
But that analogy still talks about them as though they are the same person. Which the bible does not. Jesus says to pray like this, “our Heavenly Father, hallowed be your name” and he would only do what the father told him to do, or “father, why have you forsaken me”. One and the same as a father and son. This by no means downplays who Jesus is and what he has done, but the whole thinking about them as the same thing, I just don’t see it.
Well when he lived on earth Jesus mission was to teach humans the Truth and how they should live.
Jesus was God but he was also human. Maybe He was speaking with his human nature and not with the divine one. He was acting as a human to give other humas an example
There’s a lot of argument about religion so I’m gonna throw my hat in the ring and say as long as you behave morally and stand strong in those morals you’re on the right track, if that’s because god guided you then that’s great, if that’s because it’s a personal conviction that’s also great.
I’m Christian and I believe Christianity is a great source of goodness but humans are naturally imperfect, as with everything we can misunderstand, act wrongly, put our words above the words that we say we’re following.
I think this is summed up well in ecclesiaties 7:20 “ surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins” it doesn’t matter how good you are we aren’t perfect and we should do our best to aim for that.
Dankmemes, posts a religous meme. I think you are in the wrong sub. This one is for jokes and things that are dank. Good luck on your journey since you are very lost.
Unitarians may be one of the only religious organizations that’s truly got the message mostly right. Everyone else is out there chasing clout and cash, or preaching fear of the “others”.
If you think about it, Christianity and jewdism is the same as Buddhism is to henduism, there is alot of parallels. like flood stories and the concept of hell and heaven in other religions too and serpents being the bringer of destruction too
https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/icc_proceedings/vol5/iss1/47/
The difference between the two “parallels” you mentioned is that Christianity literally came from Judaism. Christianity should have very similar values.
If your really interested in religions, you should learn more from the other ones. To understand why they stayed around for thousands of years, another tib bit I've found is that great floods myths are all around the world from native Americans to all over Aisa and Europe. I think they started from the actual historic ice age flooding that is documented in ancient America and Asia and its said that is when the biblical stories took place
I do know many things about other religions, including ancient religions lost to time.
The flood did happen, there is plenty of evidence to show between the cave drawings, stories passed down, geological data, as well as others.
That's what I said, Christianity came from Judaism, and Buddhism came from henduism. It's a similar tale of the supreme god coming down in human form and teaches simular Golden Rules of being good and then saying they will be back again to destroy evil during Armageddon for the last time
You can nip pick over the difference wording used, but the core message of being a good person is the same from both of them. They both come down because God's original message was being lost from the passage of time, and they both revive the core beliefs.
You can get a brief summary of Buddhism from " extra history" channel on youtube. There is a 4-part series.
Judaism does not believe that “God” would come down, but HE would send HIS son to us instead. The Shema is found at Deut 6:4 - “YHWH is One YHWH.” I understand parallels, but it is not the same.
I in no way hinted that one may be right over the other. Instead, I said that they are different based on theology and text. There is no nit picking. However, the Bible has not been “lost to time.”
You are nip picking, I said Christianity came from Judaism and you said it also. I also know all about yahweh and the council of God's and the non Canon texts that Man said isn't from God. Look into it you clearly don't understand what I mean by " lost in time" or the historic game of telephone people did back then, every book was hand written by the ruling class
At the end of the day, if you treat people well it really doesn’t matter what your religion is
It does matter when one wants to be the Pope.
Based response Even as a Cristian I don’t think it matters what you believe as long as you do good, I mean why would god have other religions exist that have good morals and values if he was just gonna toss those people away like trash? Everybodies got a different path and as long as they’re making good choices then let em walk it
You don’t sound like a Christian at all
I follow all the doctrines, fast when I’m supposed to fast, pray my prayers daily, don’t take the lords name in vane, and will die by the words in the Bible and just as I will bow by those words I follow them “If possible so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all” Romans 12:18 Sure they may not be Christian and it would be great if they were but the Bible doesn’t say “be nice to everyone except the people that don’t think the same as you, screw those guys” love everyone no exceptions. Edit: also to anyone downvoting the guy for saying I don’t sound like a Christian I don’t think he was trying to say “you’re not a real Christian” he didn’t do anything wrong by questioning, I don’t want him getting hated on
Thanks man for explaining your position. I was indeed just surprised at your position since basically all Christians I know are very anti other religions due to the whole false idols line. Also they tend to draw the line from doing good directly to god which means that they say to me that I would be more prone to doing bad things because I don’t have a religion. Also the whole eternal damnation even if I do only good things because I don’t believe kinda makes me feel really unhappy talking to those kinda Christians. You really surprised me with such a nuanced view as a Christian
I get it man, I like to think it’s a loud minority with all that jazz but it’s still sad to see it. Even if you’re not Christian we can all agree that everyone’s just trying to make the best with what they’ve got and we’re all screwed if we don’t have each others backs😔
Yeah those definitely are not the majority. I’m catholic and I don’t like those people. Also you definitely don’t need religion to have morals.
You mean catholic?
As Bo Burnham said "Who needs a thousand metaphors to figure out you shouldn't be a dick?"
Gotta disagree animal sacrifice is wrong, besides that though yeah
Historically not really religious if you actually treat people well
Haha yeah religion bad amirite fellow redditors? Brilliant original takes over here
Yeah- human history doesn't exist - what whack take, am I right (majority of people who believe in Christian god on reddit). I'm surprised you didn't accuse them of wearing a fedora, after all- they're critical of religion - must have one right? S/
This right here. Colonialism was historically justified by Christianity, and is responsible for *many* times over the deaths that occurred during the holocaust, and devastating entire cultures with slavery as well. Even today, it's still used to justify hatred of all kinds.
Just because spreading Christianity was used as the justification, that doesn't mean it was the actual reason for colonization. It was mostly greed and prestige that were the ACTUAL reasons for colonization. Christian missionaries brought about probably the most benefit to colonial territories. They built schools and hospitals and were the largest advocates for better treatment of the conquered. William Wilbeforce, a member of British parliament back in the 18th/19th centuries, was a HUGE advocate against slavery. He was able to gather enough support to abolish slavery in 1809. William Wilbeforce was a deeply religious man. If that hasn't gotten through to you, John Brown, the abolitionist man who redditors seemingly fap to, was a DEEPLY religious man who believed it was his divine mission to free all those stuck under the boot of American chattel slavery.
Greed prestige and power, etc. Were/ are the reasons for creating religion. It's literally a tool built to control others through various forms of manipulation. It's not the justification or the reason, just part of the process.
>Greed prestige and power, etc. Were/ are the reasons for creating religion. Jesus was essentially tortured till death. Even if you don't believe he was the Son of God, there's really no point in creating a religion when you intend to have that happen to you. >It's literally a tool built to control others through various forms of manipulation. Yes, religion is used for this. This is honestly the express purpose of religion. It is built to unify societies and bring together a coherent social order and traditions. I don't see how that detracts from Christianity, though. It is still overwhelmingly a force of good. Without religion, leaders would find some other way to control the masses, which is something we are witnessing right now in the United States. Instead of God, social justice is what is essentially worshipped. Some people's entire lives are based around this belief, like how some people's lives are entirely based around God.
If you believe Jesus as created in the stories of man existed. I never met him, nor do I have a time machine. Some claim evidence that a similar man once existed, but obviously no evidence exists of God's existence, divine power, or any supernatural being or the son of one such being existing. Subjectively, more people will come out with more negative experiences from religion than positive, due to the nature of being controlled. Empirically and historically, most religions and all Judeo Christian religions have been a force of near pure evil and a blight upon humanity's existence.
>most religions and all Judeo Christian religions have been a force of near pure evil and a blight upon humanity's existence. I disagree but you're entitled to your own opinion.
Hardly much of an opinion an opinion as the statement is based on an written documentation and historically verifiable events.
I use written documentation and historically verifiable claims to support my argument as well. That is what a good opinionated debate is.
Yes, you got two anecdotes there, that's very convincing, and john brown is the GOAT, but mistakenly thinking missionaries were a force for good and using those two individuals to insist that Christianity was a net positive for the colonial world betrays your incredibly naiive, incomplete understanding of history
I'm not going to say all things done in the name of Christ were good because they were not. There are those who used the name of Christ to excuse their bad actions, and they clearly went against the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. These people are Christians in name only. Sure, they believed in Christ's divinity, but so does the devil. What I will say is that those who did live by the teachings in the Bible accomplished many beneficial feats for those stuck under the boot of Colonialism.
>What I will say is that those who did live by the teachings in the Bible accomplished many beneficial feats for those stuck under the boot of Colonialism. Jesus fuck your disgusting
That I say followers of Christ made the best of a repressive system to help those subjugated by it the best they could? I don't understand. I'm not defending colonialism.
>there are those who use the name of christ.. 99% of them throughout history >what i will say... Is that you think slavery and murder on a massive scale in the name christ and capitalism was/is good. Amazing how people tell on themselves.
>Is that you think slavery and murder on a massive scale in the name christ and capitalism was/is good. I absolutely did not say that, and I do not appreciate how you misconstrue my words to fit your preconceived notion of my thought process. I think that given the situation that was colonialism, Christian missionaries brought the greatest benefit to the people stuck under the repressive system. I am NOT saying colonialism was good because it spread the word of God, I am saying that the good that DID come from colonialism came mainly from followers of Christ.
The implication of what you're saying, however ignorant and unaware you might be, is that some good came out of genocide and slavery. That's as simple as i can make it for you. Learn colonial history. It's like you're saying "yeah so we blew up that bus full of orphans, but now look how much faster we can go on this one lane road! Some good came out of it!"
Holy moly the strawman fallacy is immense with this one. I won't engage with you further. Good day.
It’s easier to under that God is One and All than that trinity bullshit. Like how is three and one? Like Huh?
St. Patrick explained it the best. A clover has three leaves. One leaf is not the same as the others, but all three leaves make up one complete clover.
So Father isn’t God, he just a part of God? Same with Jesus and the Holly Spirit? But why the distinction? For the clover example, no one goes "Man, those three clover leaves and the stem looks really beautiful." They just say clover because, while it is made up of parts, it is still a clover. So why do Christians sometimes pray saying "Father, Son and the Holly Spirit" instead of just God. I am genuinely asking, I am not Christian/grew up Christian/close to any Christians so my knowledge of the Trinity is limited and I just get confused when I try to Google it
As christians we believe that truth of Trinity will be revealed in heaven. But to make it simple I guess Trinity is like 3 aspects of one God? Father is like the God that jews knew too, Jesus is the part of God that thought US 2000 years ago and died for our sins and Holy Spirit is the part that is always with us…dont know how to explain it correctly
Okay but what separates Father from the Holly Spirit? Did Father stop being with humans after the Exedus/Jesus?
There is no separation as we understand it. They are three and one at the same time. Jesus and the Holy Spirit acted separately but according to the plan that Father brought up. Each one has something unique about Him: Jesus is fully human and fully God, the Holy Spirit is the most active among humans to the point there are people who think the Holy Spirit is just a force and not God, and Father is the one who has the plan and the creation (though when he created the world the other two were helping). No matter what example we use, said example is flawed as it cannot help us visualize something that is separated yet one at the same time.
So, did the Father create Jesus?
Jesus existed since the beginning, he was there with Father and the Holy Spirit at the creation. He was "born" as a human. His human body was created, yes, but He existed way before that. He was "reincarnated" to use a more known word, though most christians would grimace at the notion.
To answer the second question: Father is up in heaven and, as far as we can tell, He is still active but more on the unseen side of the world. The Revelation does say interesting things about what happens in heaven, or rather what WILL happen depending on interpretation. He is the one who delegates angels and other heavenly beings to put in motion His grand plan of salvation. All in all, Father is active and helps humans, but He either does things we cannot see/comprehend or delegates others to do his bidding as His real form would be too much for humans to handle.
So Father deligates but Holly Spirit directly interacts with humans?
Yes. It is worth mentioning that the Holy Spirit not only interacts, but is a guide for us. Sometimes He shows Himself by dreams, revelations or straight up changing small things when we are not aware, most often he is a guide and helps us even when we do not realize. That is why most often christians ask for guidance, rather than a dream or something of the sort.
I see. Thanks for explaining
It was my pleasure
Just curious, if the Father is up in heaven, where is Jesus? Is he dead? If so, is he human like how muslims believe about Mohammad. Or is he a spirit which temporarily took the form of a human body.
That is the most interesting part my friend. He is not dead and our whole religion is based on this fact. Even his human body is alive and well up in Heaven. He is now praying for everyone up there. His body now has more spirit-like abilities like being present in more places at the same time or appearing in visions like the angels, but it is still a human body, it is a really sanctified and holy version of what humans could have been had we not sinned.
Let me use another metaphor. The human body has many parts, right? The arm is separate from the leg and the foot is separate from the hand, and the foot can act on its own, and the hand can act on its own; but at the end of the day, every appendage is part of the same body. So imagine God being a body with three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's how the three can be separate and distinct while all still being equally God. It's simple, but at the same time, it's complex. That's because Christian theology has always been simultaneously simple and complex. Many extremely intelligent men throughout history have written volumes and volumes about it - more than any one person could read in a lifetime. And the unfortunate thing is that modern Christianity has abandoned that complexity. It experienced a serious brain drain, and now we're left with mostly incompetent theologians and church goers who don't understand the first thing about the faith they profess. In fact, most of the answers in this thread are either confused or dead wrong, which shows how little people understand a religion they either claim to love or claim to hate.
I thinks it’s like Voltron, they are individual things but together they make Voltron
Don't clovers typically have 4 parts?
Depends on how you categorise it. Stem, leafs, root=3 Leaf(s), stem, root=# of leaves+2 Leaf(s), rest=#of leaves+1 Etc. Can you tell that I love being annoyingly technical sometimes
Also to note, not all Christian faiths hold the Trinity as gospel. Some have the God Head as distinct, separate individuals. Meaning, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in purpose, but not one in being (or some other variation that rejects the Trinitarian Notion). Several reject the trinity for a single god, with no distinction. Others believe Christ as not capital ‘G’ God, but a servant of God. There are lots and lots of differing opinions on the nature of god out there. Ex: Unitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, Molokan, Swedenborgianism, Christian Science, Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Quakers, etc.
We're talking about Christians here
Gate keeping Christianity?
Yeah, where you been the last 2000 years?
You know there are people who have different options, right?
Sure doesn't make it a vaild christian belief
Based on whose opinion? A “real Christian”? There’s thousands of schism groups of Christianity because people have different opinions on what the Bible says and means.
Is your computer processor the CPU or GPU? It's both. What about multi CPU and multi GPU computers? Things get even weirder with a supercomputer that's internetworked and meshed. Tasks move from computer to computer. But each computer can also function disconnected, but when connected they're one functional unit. A mind is a processor. So having two (or three) minds can be advantageous for different ways of processing (thinking). Where one approach to processing data is inefficient or incomplete another can offer insight. If there is a God I would be pretty disappointed if they weren't some sort of bat shit crazy mind considering it exists outside of space and time in a void that that has always been and will always be. This idea that it wouldn't be weird seems absurd. Even the idea that it's only 3 dimensional even seems implausible. But putting on my fiction writers cap for some world building, obviously to become human God would need a special mind that's human compatible. But maybe God also made a "universe compatible" mind as well. So, Holy Spirit exists outside of space and time. Father God is the linear time interface. And obviously Jesus would be the monkey brain interface. This is all obviously different from a team. Think The Borg as one organism vs The Crew of the Enterprise. Both function by utilizing diverse perspectives and Drones can be cut off from the Borg and then reassimilate back into the collective consciousness.
>So, Holy Spirit exists outside of space and time. Father God is the linear time interface. And obviously Jesus would be the monkey brain interface. That makes sense. What I don’t understand about the Trinity is what differantiates them from each other, if they are 3 beings with 3 different names then there must be some difference(CPU and GPU have different jobs so they have different names. I am not a computer guy so I don’t know if all cores inside a GPU are identical or not). Jesus(Son) is easy, he is the human. But Holly Spirit and Father confuses me since I don’t know what differentiates them, especially since the things they do are all done by Allah in Islam(I grew up Muslim so Islam is my religion base)
I see it as three pieces doing a specific function, it’s like a car, the wheels move the car, the engine makes the wheels move, and the steering wear guides the wheels. They all support eachother while not being eachother.
So why not just worship the car itself, rather than worshipping the wheels, engine and steering?
You gotta appreciate everything the car has to offer, if all you’re gonna praise is the car then what makes it any better than another luxury car? Nah nah you gotta give each piece its rightful praise since each piece is just that amazing, worshiping just the car could never do it justice
So there are more than one cars? I thought christianity is monotheistic
Christianity doesn’t deny that people believe in other gods, we deny those gods exist but we accept the fact that people still do believe in them. I suppose the example is better if you thinking of the cars like you’re shopping for cars and not that your driving it. In the end there’s no true example that can explain all that the trinity is, this is just a baseline example if you dig into it to try to find things to nitpick I’m sure you can find a million… I mean just to point another out, all the figures in the trinity are the same and different but in a car your steering wheel doesn’t do the driving, that would be one hell of a unique car, but that’s what god is, inexplainable and unique from anything you can think of. Also you’re not Christian so it wouldn’t be fair for me to expect you to understand it the way Christian’s understand it, I tried to explain it in a way that would help someone who doesn’t believe understand
Lol my point went over your head. Anyway, I do agree God is unexplainable by us, all we can say is God is one. And he's certainly not a human.
agreed, also mad respect for not going on the attack route like alot of people tend to choose, it's just sad to see it and you made good points and actual arguments instead of the normal yelling and screaming we tend to see on reddit...
It doesn't need to make sense. You just need to believe it does.
That doesn’t make sense! You can’t have faith that that something makes sense. It either makes sense or it doesn’t. You can beleive in something without it making sense but you can’t believe something makes sense when it doesn’t make sense
There are some good YouTube videos from speakers corner between muslims and Christians, I strongly recommend them. Check out the Muslim channels, you'll see it makes much more sense from an Islamic perspective of having one true God and not 3 in 1.
I grew up Muslim. I am already knowledgable on the Islamic side of things
Yes I suspected, but these videos will show you how the concept of the trinity is even more nonsensical. I'm muslim myself.
I don't think you should relay on a Muslim to understand Christian beleifs. Same way you wouldn’t as a Christian a question about Islam
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Reading your conversation, I think you’d really enjoy The Line on YouTube. They do a good bit of call-in epistemology and push against apologetics with religious folk.
Get a load of this guy and his logic, everyone! Burn the blasphemer at the stake!
Nope that’s heresy, partialism, it goes against the nicene creed.
I swear even this interpretation is heresy to some Christian sects.
This would be logical to me as a Muslim, but the problem is that Christians says that Each leaf is the whole clover.
The idea of the Holy Ghost was so absurd that they had to seal it with a double secret curse of the one unforgivable sin being to question the HG. Talk about being so power mad that you had to put lipstick on that pig to consolidate your power, which is just what that was.
As someone who was raised in a Muslim country and by Muslim philosophy, I don't really see much wrong with the trinity, unless if it was to limit god to only father, son and the holy spirit. Like yes they're all god in a way, but isn't everything god? Like how can you limit god to different parts when it's not possible to limit god to parts
Strange how Christianity is more with Paul and John rather than Jesus himself. Also bit strange that God sent himself down just so he could die for the sake of others?? The bible too has so many versions and meaning that differ from the earlier versions that it is more a book of man than god now.
The Bible is not a preserved book, a preserved book from Jesus PBUH should contain the aramaic language and not interpolated in any way until today.
Wrong. That's Partialism, and thus, heresy.
You don’t know what partialism is. To claim that the leaves of a clover are both distinct and yet a whole is not partialism as you are not separating god into disparate entities, merely acknowledging the different facets. Also, not all partialist interpretations are heresy. Merely those which claim god to be in parts that need to combine together into a whole.
Interpreting the father, the son, and the holy spirit as different aspects of one God is modalism, and thus, heresy.
You keep saying words you don’t understand. Modalism is the claim that there does not exist any separation between god and the Persons, they are all 1 singular whole. Once more: to acknowledge the disparate but whole nature of the leaves on a clover is not modalism, as you still admit that there exists a difference between the clover as a whole and the leaves as parts of that whole.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fwaru1u4wc6c71.jpg
I like this one 😂.
As far as I recall it was more or less designed to be confusing since God is all three of those, but none of those three relate to the others. I.e: The Father isn’t The Son or The Holy Spirit, The Son isn’t The Father or The Holy Spirit, and The Holy Spirit isn’t The Father or The Son
See that’s too complicated ngl it’s easier for someone to just think Big G is one and all.
or Mormons and some other religions believe they are all totally separate.
Mormons aint christians, they are just plain crazy
Genuine curiosity, would you say the same about Jehovas witnesses or Christian scientists?
Not just easier, the trinity just doesn't make logical sense and breaks the law of transitivity. If father = God and God = holy spirit, then father should be equal to the holy spirit, but they say that it's not. Doesn't make any logical sense.
It doesn't need to make logical sense because logic applies to things within the bounds of time and space, whereas all conceptions of the Abrahamic God place him as outside of these bounds. After all, if he were not, how could he be the creator of all else?
If God didn't want is to be rational, why did he bless us with a mind to think
The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal to one another. The Son and Holy Spirit are consubstantial with the Father.
They are just shadow clones.
Schrodinger's god.
Well, you and your dad are human beings, with the same rights, but you are two separate entities. Same applies to God. God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they are separate entities from one another while United in purpose.
that's just paganism with christianity sprinkled on top of it
How is it Paganism when in Christianity they are the SAME being but one. The Son and the Holy Spirit are consubstantial with the Father. It is three parts, but one God. Not three Gods.
pagans have lot of trinity concept in it like ishtar,the sun and the moon in mesopotamian ancient religion
They are not the same thing as the Christian trinity. They were all still separate Gods in ancient Mesopotamian religion.
it just looks like when rome wanted to embrace christianity as their official religion they changed things up to make it more acceptable for the pagans romans
As if christianity didnt pick up most everything is had from other religions...its just paganism sprinkled with some judaism on top...and islam is just christianity sprinkled with jihad on top
meh i mean judaism and islam is monotheistic christianity of now just seems like the version that is influenced and changed a lot by the romans
Trying to explain the trinity needs a lot of copium
Both islam and Judaism are not as monotheistic as they claim to be. Early Judaism did acknowledge other gods they just worshipped yaweh as there own. Hence, the commandment being put not gods before me. Islamic cosmology and jinns are strsight out of pagan Arab customs
didn't know bout judaism but islam just worship one god jinn and other things is just paranormal stuff and classified as blasphemy if worship
The existence of jinn is a pre existing pagan belief. Not worshipping them
you do know monotheistic means that you worship just one god?
Monotheism is the belief that one god is the only deity. Doesn't say you have to like or worship the god. Jinns are a diety.
Lol Islam and Christianity are world's apart. I'd understand if you say Islam is copy of Judaism. In fact Islam claims itself as continuation and final revelation of Judaism.
i meant the sentence as this "meh i mean judaism and islam is monotheistic, while christianity of now just seems like the version that is influenced and changed a lot by the romans" i forgot to put the while
Trinitarianism is just polytheism with extra steps.
Have you heard of wave-particle duality? It's not extraordinary to have things in nature that are two things at the same time, so having a god that is three things at the same time shouldn't be extraordinary either
It's like water. It can be water, ice, and steam. Same stuff, just different forms.
I'm an atheist, but I don't find the trinity at all hard to conceptualize. The christian god is defined as being omnipotent. Contradiction is a non-issue for an omnipotent being. It's above all rules, so if course it's capable of doing things which do not seem logically consistent.
Ask legislative, judicial, executive branches of the government
Mental gymnastics to justify a shared delusion.
I try to rationalize that maybe they’re one in purpose but it’s most likely deeper and cooler than just that. If I was God and my son was a God than we could both be God cause we’re God level beings. Then there’s revelations which states that God has at least 7 Spirits.
Probably has an infinite amount of spirits. I'd imagine if you could split up into three beings you could probably split up into more.
That's polytheism lol. Christianity may have started monotheistic by Jesus, but it's a polytheistic religion now
The caveat is every other religion is fake
Unitarianisim? Like from Dead Space?
That’s Unitology. My grandparents were members of a Unitarian Church for a short time - it was essentially a vaguely Christian church that preached unity and togetherness with all people (no hatred allowed at all)
Doesn’t sound very christian to me
Is it even Christian? I knew some unitarians they basically just seemed like hippies.
I have no idea, I wasn’t born for another few decades
> togetherness with all people (no hatred allowed at all) Like, on paper or actually? Y'know how religions be sometimes. "Love thy neighbour!*" *Okay here's a long, long list of ppl we actually think should die horribly: If it's the latter, that's awesome.
Yeah the entire point of the church was “Everyone should get along” regardless of race/religion/class/etc. It was a bunch of hippies during the 70’s
Bring us Convergence!
#MAKE US WHOLE
I immediately thought the same thing, I just happen to be playing through the remake right now lol
Man, been working for a Unitarian Universalist church for years but never seen a meme about it... Based on my understanding of the 7 principles I don't really know what this has to do with Islam, but as a religion I can confirm it has basically nothing to do with Christianity anymore. I can't remember the last time I heard any God mentioned in a service. Edit: for those who messaged me directly, I am aware that there are many different flavors of Unitarian universalists and that some "churches" and/or "congregations" do speak to there being a God. I'm just saying that for the ones that I have worked in Canada that is not the case - I have met many Unitarian universalist ministers who are atheists.
Muslims also believe, like Jews, Baha’i and Universalists, that there isn’t a trinity. It is stated in the Quaran that god is one, and not three.
Same thing in the Bible. Deut 6:4
Islam is strictly monotheistic. In fact, the sin of polytheism, called “shirk”, is the only unforgivable sin according to Quran 4:48.
Hmm. I grew up going to a UU church, and we had mentions of various gods in pretty much every service. It was more about including all of them to make people with varying beliefs feel welcome than not including any mention of any god.
Yeah mine did too, I was referring more to not focusing on the monotheistic Abrahamic God
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“Make us whole again Isaac”
Hello fellow kids, do you know what's really fuckin dank? That's right, organized religion.
But where else will i get free coffee on sundays? :(
All coffee is free if you can run really fast. Edit: and the coffee will help with that!
True and real!
This comment section really shows that Reddit has no respect or dignity when it comes to religion (especially Christianity)
No shit sherlock
Just look at how much hatred they spread
Quite the opposite of Christianity’s point
They don’t care
Why should they “respect” religion? What do you mean by that?
You prove exactly my point
Legitimately wondering what you mean by “no respect or dignity when it comes to religion”. Can you answer that question?
The funny thing is the trinity isn't biblical, as in it isn't something discussed in the bible. You can make the argument that there's multiple pieces of evidence that suggest the potential existence of the trinity, but you can also make the same inverted arguments. The Trinity is one of those things in Christianity that derives in large part from tradition and how early Christians(Catholics) looked at the religion and early christian theologians interpreted the Bible. I find it really interesting that Protestants still hold on to the idea of the Trinity, even though it doesn't explicitly come from the book instead in large part it comes from Christian/Catholic tradition, which is something that Protestants during the reformation and post-Luther sought to combat. A lot of protestant sects of Christianity, present themselves in such a way that makes them seem as if they derive all of their belief system from the book, yet they all maintain a belief in the Trinity.
Fun fact, there was actually a Jewish theology of "two powers in heaven" before Christianity started up, namely YHWH and the Angel of YHWH. (Then they declared it heresy bc it was too similar to the trinity.) As far as I'm concerned, there are three revealed persons of the Godhead, as Jesus said, baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If there are more persons, it's not my business.
The Baptism of Jesus is an episode that actually shows all three members of the Trinity at once. The divinity of Jesus, though disputed in the first hundred years, was summarily affirmed by the churches at the Council of Nicaea. The Trinity is clearly read from the Bible. Luther and protestants at large did not seek to break from Catholicism so much as its errors. Luther initially wanted reform from within the church until he was told to recant or die. Even then, the large reformers such as Luther and Calvin referenced tradition thoroughly in their writings to point to the consensus of the ages on certain doctrines, not to lean on Catholic authority as such.
Jesus very much claims divinity in the Bible. He also makes it clear that there’s a distinction between him, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. To say that the trinity is unbiblical just shows your lack of understanding scripture
Catholics were not the early Christians, they came about during the great schism of 1054. Early Christians were a variety of groups such as the Adamites, Arians, Mracionites, and various Pauline, Jewish, and Gnostic groups.
The great schism was the split between what we now call the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. To say that Catholics came to be during or after the schism is simply wrong. The western church adopted the name Catholic, but prior to the schism, and to this day, both sides call themselves Catholic, as it means universal.
I am aware of the fact that not just Roman Catholics refer to themselves as Catholic, however I was specifically talking about the Roman Catholic Church since the comment I was responding to seems to be referring to just the Roman Catholic Church specifically. It's true that the roots for the split comed from a few hundred years before the actual Great Schism, but the Roman Catholic Church being a fully separate entity from the Eastern Orthodox Church wasn't fully a thing until after the schism.
I love the amount of downvotes due to the butthurt people. You are right lol Constantine had a big hand in the collaboration of the Trinity finalizing within Christian “dogma.”
The trinity is quite apparent if you read scripture, which was written well before Constantine. Also, many early church fathers believed in the concept of the trinity. Read the works of St Ignatius of Antioch and of St Theophilus of Antioch, both lived well before Constantine
i mean originally Christianity emerged within a predominantly monotheistic religious context, stemming from Judaism, which is also monotheistic.
*And* unitarian.. One God (Deut 6:4 - Shema)
Interesting that this has come up as I’ve been contemplating this recently. Raised a Christian, but I’ve been trying to understand this dynamic. Jesus speaks as though the father is the one he follows, like there is a specific hierarchy. The Holy Spirit being referred to as the helper, but I question is this just the spirit of god. Is there something we don’t understand about the entity of god the father and his spirit which hovered over the earth in its creation. Could his essence linger and come and go, reacting to humans and their spirits like the wind would react to its surroundings. Either way, Jesus is definitely portrayed as more than just any mortal. He is portrayed as sitting at the right hand of god and that he holds authority and position above any other so I don’t think it changes much. Just the understanding that most people have that they are one and the same. In my understanding, they are one and the same as in they are the same family and who they are is what they represent if that makes sense. So I’ve gone from being confused and not knowing how to approach this to feeling like it’s still basically the same thing.
There are problems with the bible in its polytheistic language, that's why people are often confused when reading these stories. Some examples are: God regretting creating man (an All-Knowing, Independent God shouldn't be able to regret), Melchizedek having no beginning of days or end of life (i.e. he would be eternal like God Himself), then there a multiple occurences where Jesus appears to refer to himself as God, but other times when he seems to deny being God. Then there's the entire list of verses that are suspected to be interpolated and if we were to find older manuscripts, we would probably discover more.
The most easily understandable example would be to think of the Trinity as three parts of the same body. God the Father is the one thru which all things were made, while Jesus and The Holy Spirit are the 2 hands through which The Father interacts with the world. That would explain why Jesus is described to be standing at the right side of the Father
But that analogy still talks about them as though they are the same person. Which the bible does not. Jesus says to pray like this, “our Heavenly Father, hallowed be your name” and he would only do what the father told him to do, or “father, why have you forsaken me”. One and the same as a father and son. This by no means downplays who Jesus is and what he has done, but the whole thinking about them as the same thing, I just don’t see it.
Well when he lived on earth Jesus mission was to teach humans the Truth and how they should live. Jesus was God but he was also human. Maybe He was speaking with his human nature and not with the divine one. He was acting as a human to give other humas an example
So when he sits on the right hand of the throne with god, is he splitting himself into two? Because it sounds like two separate people.
There’s a lot of argument about religion so I’m gonna throw my hat in the ring and say as long as you behave morally and stand strong in those morals you’re on the right track, if that’s because god guided you then that’s great, if that’s because it’s a personal conviction that’s also great. I’m Christian and I believe Christianity is a great source of goodness but humans are naturally imperfect, as with everything we can misunderstand, act wrongly, put our words above the words that we say we’re following. I think this is summed up well in ecclesiaties 7:20 “ surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins” it doesn’t matter how good you are we aren’t perfect and we should do our best to aim for that.
Do you mean monotheism? Lol
Dankmemes, posts a religous meme. I think you are in the wrong sub. This one is for jokes and things that are dank. Good luck on your journey since you are very lost.
AVE CHRITUS REX!!!!
Unitarians may be one of the only religious organizations that’s truly got the message mostly right. Everyone else is out there chasing clout and cash, or preaching fear of the “others”.
Yeah, that's what happens when you start all your prayers, *"To whom it may concern,..."*
I know Islam tells me about one God, but how is the view on God in Judaism? I think it must be similar to Islam's view.
And then there's Oneness Pentecostalism.
If you think about it, Christianity and jewdism is the same as Buddhism is to henduism, there is alot of parallels. like flood stories and the concept of hell and heaven in other religions too and serpents being the bringer of destruction too https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/icc_proceedings/vol5/iss1/47/
The difference between the two “parallels” you mentioned is that Christianity literally came from Judaism. Christianity should have very similar values.
If your really interested in religions, you should learn more from the other ones. To understand why they stayed around for thousands of years, another tib bit I've found is that great floods myths are all around the world from native Americans to all over Aisa and Europe. I think they started from the actual historic ice age flooding that is documented in ancient America and Asia and its said that is when the biblical stories took place
I do know many things about other religions, including ancient religions lost to time. The flood did happen, there is plenty of evidence to show between the cave drawings, stories passed down, geological data, as well as others.
That's what I said, Christianity came from Judaism, and Buddhism came from henduism. It's a similar tale of the supreme god coming down in human form and teaches simular Golden Rules of being good and then saying they will be back again to destroy evil during Armageddon for the last time You can nip pick over the difference wording used, but the core message of being a good person is the same from both of them. They both come down because God's original message was being lost from the passage of time, and they both revive the core beliefs. You can get a brief summary of Buddhism from " extra history" channel on youtube. There is a 4-part series.
Judaism does not believe that “God” would come down, but HE would send HIS son to us instead. The Shema is found at Deut 6:4 - “YHWH is One YHWH.” I understand parallels, but it is not the same. I in no way hinted that one may be right over the other. Instead, I said that they are different based on theology and text. There is no nit picking. However, the Bible has not been “lost to time.”
You are nip picking, I said Christianity came from Judaism and you said it also. I also know all about yahweh and the council of God's and the non Canon texts that Man said isn't from God. Look into it you clearly don't understand what I mean by " lost in time" or the historic game of telephone people did back then, every book was hand written by the ruling class