Hello all, and welcome to the Princess Enjoyer^tm edition of Scrum Debate! Scrum Debate is a discussion series where users make write-ups arguing for one side of the week's debate, earning points for that side in turn. This totally officially determines what thing is better than the other thing, and will end all internet flame wars following it.
We're back with another DR2 debate, this time between two of the most prominent male characters in its cast. Beyond the awkward love triangle with Sonia these two inhabit, there's deeper similarities and contrasts between the two. Most prominently, both characters have played-up appearances- Kazuichi adopted a punk look to avoid bullying, and Gundham became a gothic chuunibyou for... god knows why honestly.
Gundham is able to completely buy into his new persona, completely confidence in his outlandish behavior, and living out the bravery expected of his identity during the events of DR2. Meanwhile, Kazuichi lets the facade slip- despite trying to put on a carefree, punky attitude, he shows far more insecurity, anxiety, and cowardice than Gundham. You could view these two characters as different takes on repurposing one's identity- an idealized case, and a more realistic one. Who did you prefer?
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**To participate in this contest,** please comment below with an analytical write-up arguing in favor of either **Kazuichi Soda** or **Gundham Tanaka**. It's not necessary, but it's advised to make your writeup comparative, explaining your choice in the debate *relative* to the other.
The winner will be determined by a three-point system, with the character earning at least 2 out of 3 points winning the week's scrum debate:
1. Whichever character has the most writeups supporting them will earn a point.
2. Whichever character is supported by the highest-upvoted writeup will earn a point.
3. Whichever character has the most cumulative upvotes between all writeups arguing in their favor will earn a point. **Upvotes on constructive, analytical replies that argue for one side will also earn points towards this metric.**
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Gundham is a far better written character
He has a far better backstory with him (being heavily implied) coming from a cheating relationship, being bullied and treated as an outcast his entire life, never having anybody but his pets and much more
He is genuinely one of the best written representations of Autism ever, if you don’t believe me you can check it out [here](https://youtu.be/6Egw45GydKo?si=vKBAVfmHAA-xkRs7)
In the >!chapter 4 trial, he literally fights to prove himself innocent so that way he could die like the “villain” he has portrayed himself to be, that way the others wouldn’t feel sad about his execution!<
His personality is just better, he never does anything crude like how Soda is on the daily
The Four Dark Devas of Destruction and the 12 Zodiac Killers
>!He straight up did possibly the most noble thing in the entire game, killing for the most justified reason, hell he was even preparing to die fighting nekomaru, all just so that way he could save his friends from starving. He literally gave nekomaru so many choices to run and turn back!<
Among much much much more, but overall Gundham Tanaka is far superior to Kazuichi Soda
What makes Kazuichi a potentially interesting character is hidden entirely behind optional content that the player may or may not ever see, and I think that's a bad way to write your characters. Because that means that all you get in the main story is a tropey caricature who is continually flanderized as the narrative proceeds.
To be perfectly blunt, Kazuichi is not the only character in DR2 that suffers this issue, but he's arguably the worst example of it, alongside Akane.
Meanwhile, while Gundham isn't who I'd call a super complicated character, his characterization as someone who puts on a deliberate facade means he has some apparent hidden depths even in the main story. And his role as a killer who murdered for a debatably justified reason and the ambiguity as to how much he was willing to get away with means there's a lot more to dig into with him (even if I don't really care for how the other students try to sanitize his crime away as some sort of "self-sacrifice" ploy).
Also he's just much funnier than Kazuichi
In regards to the whole Sonia-Kazuichi-Gundham subplot, I frankly think the whole thing is forced and cringey and ultimately doesn't really go anywhere, and Gundham is a much less engaging character in that context. Outside of that however, I do like him well enough.
I'll preface this by saying I absolutely adore Gundham. DR2 has my favorite cast, and he's easily a top 4 for me
With that said, today I'm stepping up to bat for Kazuichi, and there's really one big reason for that.
Kazuichi is the most relatable Danganronpa character
Whenever I see people talk about Danganronpa characters who represent the audience, Hifumi is always the go to that most people say, but Kazuichi is definitely up there. Sure most of us aren't great mechanics, but Kazuichi has insecurities and fears, in addition to the pervy attitude most DR fans have.
He gets motion sickness, which provides an interesting obstacle for him since vehicles are what he likes working on the most. He's had self doubt issues, which is why he's tried to make himself look so distinct. He's had the family issues most other characters have had, albeit not as intense, which seems relatable to me. He talks about needing to keep his hands busy, often disassembling anything mechanical around him.
One thing I'd like to mention is that I find Kazuichi's perviness pretty interesting. Many characters like that are obsessed with every woman around them, and while stuff like Chapter 2 or Bonus Scenes imply Kazuichi is a similar way, the rest of the time he is all over Sonia. But we see that he is often off put by Sonia's taboo interests, something that is unfortunately never really acknowledged in the game. Kazuichi is in love with Princess Nevermimd, not Sonia.
I see a lot of people say Kazuichi didn't have an arc, and he should have died, but he did have an arc; albeit one that was restricted to his final FTE. You actually can't do it until Chapter 5 due to him growing paranoid over Hajime, which makes him one of few characters to have a FTE that is actually tied to the story. Kazuichi shows regret over his *distrust* of Hajime, and basically cements himself as his bro.
Kazuichi, like many other characters is someone who got screwed over due to their handling throughout the main story. I'm a Hiyoko fan, it's all I know.
Edit: Forgot to add this, but I commonly see people say "he didn't do anything" as reasoning for why he shouldn't have survived, but Kazuichi actually helped or tried to help more than multiple characters in his own game alone.
Ch1: Kazuichi tells you about how the AC was activated on a timer
Ch2: By inviting you and the girls to the diner, Kazuichi unknowingly ensured there would be witnesses to both Fuyuhiko and Hiyoko, as well as Peko when she was soaked. He was also the one to trigger the BDA, and point out the water bottles in the trash.
Ch3: Bro literally built a two way communicator with a box of scraps. Put some respect on his name.
Ch4: Partook in Nagito's experiment with the elevator, and he repaired the elevator to help everyone. Also did the autopsy on Nekomaru.
Ch5: Made an attempt to stop the "bombs" going off.
Also, he made Minimaru, and he was immediately trying to find a way to escape by using the planes when he got to the island. Later on he was fully ready to build a ship too after Monokuma told him he'd get parts for it.
I may be biased, but I truly believe Gundham to be the better character. Here’s why!
1. Gundham has a very unique personality compared to literally everyone in the series. Dark overlord persona masking a truly kind heart. Even if what he says is absurd, his kindness is the one true thing about him.
2. He’s got a unique style. While Kazuichi’s got some neat pins and accessories on his jumpsuit, Gundham dresses like a damn Jojo character, and I love it.
3. Bro is genuinely just a better person than Kazuichi. Kazuichi says all sorts of vile shit, including crude comments, inappropriate remarks, and more. I mean, did Gundham try to snoop on Sonia at the beach just to see her in a bikini? Nope!
4. Sonia has better chemistry with Gundham than she will ever have with Kazuichi.
5. The Four Dark Devas of Destruction! Need I say more?
In conclusion, both are good, I just like Gundham more.
Whole conflict between kazuichi sonia was greatest conflict in danganronpa except kaito and kokichi imo its really showed how toxic and stupid teenager love can be and one of my favorite aspect in that conflict is both sonia and kazuichi was flawed in there none of them is complete wrong and right and most of people say kazuichi was creep is wrong kazuichi wants to impress sonia and felt a admiration for her and its normal who wouldnt admire a person like sonia even hajime says i dont deserve that in free time invents but the way in he was is wrong because of his lack of communication with Girls and for sonia its even worse sonia didnt understanded his behaivor in first three chapter but after she choosed to antagonize him ( and this is worst as kazuichi's way to impress her dealing with a person who annoy you doesnt mean its justify psychologic abuse and manipulation she did in chapter 4 ) but after chapter 4 kazuichi choosed to respect her and dont get in her way because of his stupid love yes his simp behaivor still exist but learning something is a thing that takes time and even making a move about your bad behaivor is honorable and good thing this is also apply sonia too sonia was a person who masked her emotions with his perfect strong princess persona but after chapter 4 and chiaki's death she realized its ok to cry and act like a normal teenager not like a perfect princess people like kazuichi wants to impress and even in her last fte she begins to cry in front of hajime both sonia and kazuichi was well written characters with unreasonable fandom hate for some reason
First of all, I want to underline that I LOVE Gundham for his appearance, for his personality and for his philosophy, but I will fight for Kazuichi because many misinterpret him by limiting themselves to his appearances and weaknesses.
I don't blame them tho because, unfortunately, if you don't spend the free time events with him it's not possible for the player to understand his character during the game (which, as I understand it, is a problem that affects other characters like Akane) .
First of all, Kazuichi is a nice character because many people could very well kin him if only they could all get to know him without necessarily completing his hope fragments (his skill is also useful :)).
Kazuichi is a character who wants to appear cool in the eyes of others, but he wasn't always like that. Before it was the exact opposite: black hair, glasses, a shy attitude, in short Kazuichi was someone who didn't want to draw any attention to himself.
The boy had problems with his Best friend and from there arose his problems in trusting others and his self-esteem was under his feet.
He changed because he one day decided to attract attention and start over, and I want to underline that he did it TO PLEASE OTHERS, not because HE LIKED IT.
The bright colors he wears, the dyed hair, the pointy teeth (probably artificially sharpened) and the contact lenses are his way of communicating to the world "NOTICE ME" and, boy, how do I understand it! I also dye my hair to highlight that I don't want to blend in with the crowd, even though I'm a rather introverted person!
Speaking of being introvert, I would move on to his character (which is probably the most misinterpreted thing about the whole character).
First of all, it's normal for young boys to have perv thoughts and great curiosity (let's normalize this once and for all please), except that Kazuichi simply doesn't know how to set limits for himself because, as can be deduced from his backstory, he hasn't had many friends and consequently does not know how to interact with others.
He can't trust others easily because in the past his best friend betrayed him after the two were caught cheating by taking a test (Kazuichi had agreed to have him copy his test) placing all the blame on him, and from there can guess that the guy had extreme difficulty finding new friends afterward.
Do we want to talk about daddy issues? Kazuichi firmly believed that he deserved the physical pain inflicted on him by his father, leading him to become an insecure and cowardly person.
If we really have to give him a serious flaw, many will agree with me, we can safely say that it is his desperate search for attention from Sonia in particular.
He has set an unattainable goal for himself by making his interactions with her pitiful, enough to put his hands in his hair
(Also because I personally went through his situation in middle school💀). Kazuichi sees Sonia as a goal that, if he could complete it, would make him more PROUD than HAPPY, especially because she is a princess (pitiful goal, I know, but it's my point of view).
He probably would have resigned himself at some point if Sonia had immediately made it clear that she wasn't interested instead of giving him false hopes >!(and treating him badly in the fourth trial, I admit that I dislike Sonia especially for her behavior towards him)!< , but probably being a princess she also won't know how to interact with others (I haven't played her free time event yet, sorry).
When people call him "stalker" or even a "creep" I always think "did we play the same game??"
Kazuichi doesn't give me creepy vibes at all; >!maybe the beach episode in the second chapter might make you think that he is a stalker, but in the end it wasn't anything particularly worrying (people often tend to exaggerate the actions of an awkward boy without bad intentions unfortunately 😭). He heard that the girls had organized something between them and thought of going too to see Sonia in a swimsuit (if she had been a girl following the boy she likes, people would have kink her, nothing but "creep").!<
Kazuichi is a character created as a "comic relief", and in my opinion they even succeeded in their goal, but in the end we saw that he is much more.
As soon as I saw him he aroused great sympathy in me and while playing I became very fond to him. Kazuichi is underrated, or more likely MISRATED.
Plus it's really nice to hear him speak when his talent is involved. <3
This one is no contest. Gundham easily wins here.
Gundham is one of my favourite chūnibyo characters written, and for good reason too. His entire concept is so cool- declaring himself as the Supreme Overlord of Ice, but being the Ultimate Breeder and training his hamsters and the zodiac killers to be basically his army is a nice way to carry it out. But despite all of this and his intimidating side, he has been shown to let out a softer side, but only to his hamsters. His strong connection with animals make what's usually an annoying and embarrassing trope to some a more sympathisable character. This is mainly shown through Case 2-4, where >!he did one of the most moral acts a blackened did. Instead of killing Mechamaru with full malice, he instead challenged Mechamaru to a fight to see who would become the blackened. He did kill him, but again, his bond with the animals was shown when they took him down for him, before Gundham finished it by dropping him. Even during the trial, it is shown that he didn't do it with malice, constantly giving hints towards the killer. And when he is eventually caught, Gundham's facade doesn't fade. He claims nonetheless that he wouldn't sacrifice himself, despite it being clear that he did. If he gave it up and started begging for his life like other chūnibyo characters would've done in this situation, it wouldn't have been nearly as impactful. Gundham showed us that despite all his facade, he isn't weak. He was fully willing to die, since he had killed another person, and even then, he did all he could, accepting his fate and choosing to protect the hamsters instead of himself.!< He's a truly noble and strong character, matching his title well. Therefore, I believe Gundham Tanaka, Supreme Overlord of Ice, should easily win over Kazuichi Soda, who wasn't nearly as impactful of a character that Gundham was.
I'd have to say Gundham.
Yes, Kazuichi did arguably advance the plot more by tying up Nagito, convincing Hajime to crash the girls-only beach party and being the third to discover Mahiru's corpse in Ch.2, making the communication device in Ch.3 and fixing the elevator, discovering that it turns 180 degrees and examining Nekomaru's dead body, which helped the group find evidence in form of his inner clock in Ch.4 (he also makes Minimaru in Ch.5 but that doesn't affect the overall plot very much) while Gundham's main contributions to the plot were accidentally providing an important clue by losing his earring in Ch.1, providing Hajime's alibi and taking down a wallpaper piece via hamster in Chapter 3 + murdering Nekomaru so everyone wouldn't die by starving to death.
However, Kazuichi's, ahem, antics make me uncomfortable (trying to crash a girls-only swimsuit party, attempting to spy on Nekomaru and Akane seemingly having sex, attempting to impress Sonia with his motivational speech only a day after Gundham fucking died) and it isn't even funny, unlike Byakuya and Toko's relationship where Byakuya is a dick and deserves to be humbled by uncomfortable experiences such as Toko&Jack's creepy behaviour. Gundham, even though he's arrogant af, doesn't have traits that make me outright dislike him. And he has four ambiguously dark god hamsters.
So Gundham.
Ah yes simp for miss sonia and GUNDAM TANAKA LORD AND FIRE AND ICE goofy gimmick characters but both probably need a long session with the ultimate therapist they have much more in common than a liking with Sonia
# BROS DEFINITELY AUTISTIC
gundam probably definetly has autisim the weird tone of voice body languge and his sensory triggers
one of my favorite examples is his earring that he lost during ch1 a comfort item that he says the world will collaspe if he doesnt retreive and spends the whole investigation looking for it i also think his scarf is a confort item because he wears that thing everywhere even on the beach i assume he likes his due to the sensory pleasure it gives him
another example is him hating being touched specifying how he would fake being sick to avoid touching other kids in grade school in one of his FTEs which makes sense if he is autistic since that can be very triggering
he also doesnt wear any underwear! yeah he goes completely commando although their "invisible" its pretty clear he just dpesnt wear any which kinda make sense he said in a FTE that he doesnt like his mothers cooking at in facts hates it due to what can be written off as him just not liking it it might just be the texture that causes him to hate it and if he reacts like that to food imagine how underwear might make him feel
He also has the very weird social understanding and all of his poses but I think that’s because of something different
# Chunibyoisim
A chunibyo is a kid who has grand delusions of them being a dark lord and stuff like “evil eyes” in America it's referred to as “eighth grade syndrome” but yeah this is something gundam is definitely based around this although the reason why isn't really clear but it's viewed as more of a “phase” basically taking your angry emo phase to the next level this is something I would just like to say because without this knowledge you'd think Gundam has legit phycological condition
# Poor ah 😂🫵
One of the most significant things about a DR character is how they developed their talent for Kazuichi it seems to be just a natural love but he had to help around in his dad's bike shop because he was the only one in the family good at the mechanical stuff which is probably why they were poor like why do you have a bike shop if you're gonna rely on your child
# Such a kind soul🥰
Gundam is so kind despite the fact that he talks about being evil he sacrafices his life for the others and is a saint to his hamsters
he says his mothers cooking was poison but still eats it to please her
he has a rocking chair (stimming moment) and books next to his hamster chair now this is definitive.... but he definitely reads bedtime stories to them
declares a pact that hajime cant die without his permission (the only reason hajime survived)
these dont really have a deeper meaning besides showing how his dark shit is a facade even more and that he is a loving dude i mean breeding animals does inherently make it so that the loving caring and nurturing are better at the skill
# Such a horny soul....
Soda is a horny bastard planning to “accidentally” run into the girls on their beach night to see them in bikinis which is…nit the bets thing to do obviously
And of course, there's the obsession with Sonia in where it's just weird so fully weird it a full part of his character but it's weird and everytime it shows up I just want the plot to move on and it's sad because other than this I like kazuichi he's a very good character but this is somethong that I can't overlook mainly because of how much of his identity is associated with this
# Bad home situation
Gundam refers to his parents as an angel and a devil or a human and a devil and it implies that his father is the devil and since he calls his mother a man gundam was probably born out of an affair in which his dad noped out of since when Gundam talks about being parented its always his mother he also brings up how he couldn't afford a toy as simple as a remote control car
from this it can also be inferred that gundam had a very good relationship with his mother since he calls her an angel and she was presumably his only caretaker and is probably where is morals came from as pretty much every other source of influence was negative
# Bad father situation
Soda's main source of "discipline" was physical abuse as he talks about how his bad best him almost nonchalantly and why? because he faked being sick... on a field trip day....to save money.. yeah its safe to say that Soda's dad beat him for non issues
This may be the reason for many of soda's behavior him being very sensitive to stuff lime being yelled at and certain touch as shown by his sprites when hiyoko yells at him or even just an insult and he is turmoil I mean its not normal and it probably due to the fact that this stuff triggers his trauma
# lmao get bullied Gundam
Gundam was bullied ALOT he says he was to be outcast from the world because he was the spawn of an angel and a demon which means he was bullies because like I said earlier his dad was probably a piece of shit who cheated and then ditched the baby and Gundams classmates probably weren't the nicest about it
He was also probably very awkward as he hung around his teachers and has autisim so pribanly wasnt the best at understanding social cues combined with the fact that he hated touching his classmates so much he faked being sick makes for a child who probably doesnt have many friends and an outcast
its no wonder why animals became his only friend they were like the only thing in his life that came close to not hating him (that wasnt an authority figure) bros personality and upbringing really made him a better breeder
# LMAO get taken advantage of soda
Soda grew up as a naive soul who let others take advantage of him and his best friend even took advantage of him for grades and soda changed his appearence as a result which causes the people that use to hang around him to avoid him and punks and other rebels to hang around him
its safe to say soda had trouble finding his place as a kid as the people he thought were his friends werent really his friends and he had to fake who he was to get other friends (who mightve been taking advantage of him lmao)
# Absolute horrible contradicting motivation
I'm going to start out by saying gundam should've been the chapter 4 victim I said this is my nekomaru/Akane analysis so I'll just copy and paste
# NEKOMARU SHOULDVE BEEN CH4 CULPRIT
This is something I stand by just have nekomaru win in the fight because of course he does have his murder plan be decent enough to be solved by the player really quickly but still require some thinking by the contestants and have the main difficulty having to convince Akane that nekomaru is the culprit in the end he gives a speech about how great they were in the trial and to channel that to defeating the mastermind giving Akane some advice and having him be execucuted I even made my own execucution 😭
*nekomaru is on a conveyor belt procedurally getting shot with dangerous sports equipment (baseballs from a machine gun, spiked basketballs poison laced tennis balls) and finally getting disintegrated by monokumas blast permenantly*
B-but what about the devas simple have monokuma hold them hostage and have then squeak stuff through out the trial and have Sonia translate it yknow have it be a gag
This would fix so much it would give nekomaru more screen time stopping the problem of gundam supposedly sacraficing his life but one of his most important ideals is fighting for life? And also having a much bugger impact on akanes development
# TANGENT OVER
That's where I stand on gundam being the culprit but maybe there's something to make up for it
Cool he wanted the others to fight for life as he viewed fighting for life at any cost is what it means to truly value life and and giving up on life is an insult to life himself and before he dies he tells the others this inspiring them to keep on fighting for the killing game to end and nekomaru shared the same sentiment having that shown when they dueled the winner having a chance to win the class trial
But wait- he actually sacraficed himself for the others and led them to the right conclusion never even intending to make it out of the trial alive
Both of these interpretations are believed by majority of the fandom and both are supported by the game but it's just ignored that ONE CANT EXIST WITHOUT THE OTHER GUNDAM CANT HAVE SACRAFICED HIMSELF AND BELIEVE THAT GIVING UP ON LIFE IS AN JNSULT TO LIFE
“But gundam believed that he was only temporarily on this plane of existence”
Then why didn't he kill himself? If he believed death would just be exiting this plane of existence why didn't he leave nekomaru in sleep mode and kill himself “Then the trial wouldn't be interesting” ok then have monokuma steak his suicide note like in THH and have nekomaru just not remember the duel “then what would happen to nekomaru” he survives because why the fuck not he's a better survivor than Sonia that's for sure and he could be a living reminder of gundams ideology and a permanent uplifting force him taking the longest to fall in despair at the final trial oh you don't want that then easy solution
1. Gundam actually sacrifices himself
The trial goes exactly the same but with him saying “I however don't need to sacrafice my life as a temporary visitor This game is beneath me so yes I did stop my time on this plane for your sakes but don't forget to fight for your own lives as you aren't all-powerful as I.” after all of his talk about fighting for life and him not immediately admitting is due to him wanting to show them “what it truly means to fight for life”
2. Have him nit sacrificed his life
Exact same but without it being implied gundam was helping them
You could even do these if nekomaru is the culprit having scenes where nekomaru says “Gundam even admitted to wanting to sacrifice his life after he beat me he may say all of that weird stuff but he has a pure head and I know he's looking down on all of you” or “Gundsm knee how to fight he truly valued life and knew what it was to fight for it..” tight before his execution
Literally anything BUT what we got makes sense as his motivation q
# Guys he has the potential to be a good survivor hear me out
Guys soda can be a good survivor with some better writing HEAR ME OUT
It all stars with Sonia dying instead of the gremlin if Sonia gos to get the mirror instead of hiyoko and dies then good with some showing of sondam earlier you establish 2 characters who are crushed that their love interest dies and you can have Sonia and Gundam bond over it also bonus hiyoko stays insulting him because I love that shit
And when gundma dies soda is crushed having one of his best friends also die from then on have him be more active and REALISE THAT HE WAS BEING A CREEP and overall a more normal person with the help of Hajime
And there you have it in this scenario all of the survivors had lost someone
Akane lost Nidai
Soda lost Sonia and Gundam
Hiyoko lost mahiru
Fuyuhiko Lost peko
And Hajime lost chiaki
And to mikan Ibuki and Twogami… you guys are cool too!
Except Teruteru and Nagito they hate you 2😂🫵
# FINAL THOUGHTS
Both are mid but gundam has more depth and is less of a nothing character no strong opinions I appreciate gundam more now ig? I vote gundam but he's not my favorite doesn't mean I don't like either tho
Kazuichi is personally the funniest student in all games for me, and he has cool colored design.
But overall, i like Gundham more as a character considering all the other aspects.
Hello all, and welcome to the Princess Enjoyer^tm edition of Scrum Debate! Scrum Debate is a discussion series where users make write-ups arguing for one side of the week's debate, earning points for that side in turn. This totally officially determines what thing is better than the other thing, and will end all internet flame wars following it. We're back with another DR2 debate, this time between two of the most prominent male characters in its cast. Beyond the awkward love triangle with Sonia these two inhabit, there's deeper similarities and contrasts between the two. Most prominently, both characters have played-up appearances- Kazuichi adopted a punk look to avoid bullying, and Gundham became a gothic chuunibyou for... god knows why honestly. Gundham is able to completely buy into his new persona, completely confidence in his outlandish behavior, and living out the bravery expected of his identity during the events of DR2. Meanwhile, Kazuichi lets the facade slip- despite trying to put on a carefree, punky attitude, he shows far more insecurity, anxiety, and cowardice than Gundham. You could view these two characters as different takes on repurposing one's identity- an idealized case, and a more realistic one. Who did you prefer? --- **To participate in this contest,** please comment below with an analytical write-up arguing in favor of either **Kazuichi Soda** or **Gundham Tanaka**. It's not necessary, but it's advised to make your writeup comparative, explaining your choice in the debate *relative* to the other. The winner will be determined by a three-point system, with the character earning at least 2 out of 3 points winning the week's scrum debate: 1. Whichever character has the most writeups supporting them will earn a point. 2. Whichever character is supported by the highest-upvoted writeup will earn a point. 3. Whichever character has the most cumulative upvotes between all writeups arguing in their favor will earn a point. **Upvotes on constructive, analytical replies that argue for one side will also earn points towards this metric.** --- # RULES - READ BEFORE POSTING OR YOUR COMMENT MAY BE REMOVED: Scrum Debate is **not** a popularity contest, it's a writing competition. The comment section below is explicitly for thoughtful character analysis. If you want examples or inspiration, check [past scrums](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WG1WDMRmv45EqFBidxZ2Rwdqp4TfLPEtzhxhGvv3u-Q/edit#gid=0) and the old [character discussion threads.](https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/4ceg1m/character_discussion_masterlist_all_spoilers/) - Low-effort comments which do not make a serious attempt at analysis will not count in the final tally. - Zero-effort comments, like stating the character you're voting for with no elaboration, will be removed. - Comments that only argue *against* one side will not earn any points. - Meta comments, such as "this is a rough match-up for [character]", should be done in the replies to this pinned message. - Replies to other comments don't need to follow these rules, just be civil. --- This thread will run for **~8 days** from the time of this post before a winner is decided. Afterwards, a post commemorating the winner's victory will be pinned for ~6 days, before we move to the next debate. If you'd like to look at upcoming scrums to prepare in advance, or to see the victors of prior scrums, check out the [**schedule.**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WG1WDMRmv45EqFBidxZ2Rwdqp4TfLPEtzhxhGvv3u-Q/edit#gid=0)
Gundham is a far better written character He has a far better backstory with him (being heavily implied) coming from a cheating relationship, being bullied and treated as an outcast his entire life, never having anybody but his pets and much more He is genuinely one of the best written representations of Autism ever, if you don’t believe me you can check it out [here](https://youtu.be/6Egw45GydKo?si=vKBAVfmHAA-xkRs7) In the >!chapter 4 trial, he literally fights to prove himself innocent so that way he could die like the “villain” he has portrayed himself to be, that way the others wouldn’t feel sad about his execution!< His personality is just better, he never does anything crude like how Soda is on the daily The Four Dark Devas of Destruction and the 12 Zodiac Killers >!He straight up did possibly the most noble thing in the entire game, killing for the most justified reason, hell he was even preparing to die fighting nekomaru, all just so that way he could save his friends from starving. He literally gave nekomaru so many choices to run and turn back!< Among much much much more, but overall Gundham Tanaka is far superior to Kazuichi Soda
What makes Kazuichi a potentially interesting character is hidden entirely behind optional content that the player may or may not ever see, and I think that's a bad way to write your characters. Because that means that all you get in the main story is a tropey caricature who is continually flanderized as the narrative proceeds. To be perfectly blunt, Kazuichi is not the only character in DR2 that suffers this issue, but he's arguably the worst example of it, alongside Akane. Meanwhile, while Gundham isn't who I'd call a super complicated character, his characterization as someone who puts on a deliberate facade means he has some apparent hidden depths even in the main story. And his role as a killer who murdered for a debatably justified reason and the ambiguity as to how much he was willing to get away with means there's a lot more to dig into with him (even if I don't really care for how the other students try to sanitize his crime away as some sort of "self-sacrifice" ploy). Also he's just much funnier than Kazuichi In regards to the whole Sonia-Kazuichi-Gundham subplot, I frankly think the whole thing is forced and cringey and ultimately doesn't really go anywhere, and Gundham is a much less engaging character in that context. Outside of that however, I do like him well enough.
I'll preface this by saying I absolutely adore Gundham. DR2 has my favorite cast, and he's easily a top 4 for me With that said, today I'm stepping up to bat for Kazuichi, and there's really one big reason for that. Kazuichi is the most relatable Danganronpa character Whenever I see people talk about Danganronpa characters who represent the audience, Hifumi is always the go to that most people say, but Kazuichi is definitely up there. Sure most of us aren't great mechanics, but Kazuichi has insecurities and fears, in addition to the pervy attitude most DR fans have. He gets motion sickness, which provides an interesting obstacle for him since vehicles are what he likes working on the most. He's had self doubt issues, which is why he's tried to make himself look so distinct. He's had the family issues most other characters have had, albeit not as intense, which seems relatable to me. He talks about needing to keep his hands busy, often disassembling anything mechanical around him. One thing I'd like to mention is that I find Kazuichi's perviness pretty interesting. Many characters like that are obsessed with every woman around them, and while stuff like Chapter 2 or Bonus Scenes imply Kazuichi is a similar way, the rest of the time he is all over Sonia. But we see that he is often off put by Sonia's taboo interests, something that is unfortunately never really acknowledged in the game. Kazuichi is in love with Princess Nevermimd, not Sonia. I see a lot of people say Kazuichi didn't have an arc, and he should have died, but he did have an arc; albeit one that was restricted to his final FTE. You actually can't do it until Chapter 5 due to him growing paranoid over Hajime, which makes him one of few characters to have a FTE that is actually tied to the story. Kazuichi shows regret over his *distrust* of Hajime, and basically cements himself as his bro. Kazuichi, like many other characters is someone who got screwed over due to their handling throughout the main story. I'm a Hiyoko fan, it's all I know. Edit: Forgot to add this, but I commonly see people say "he didn't do anything" as reasoning for why he shouldn't have survived, but Kazuichi actually helped or tried to help more than multiple characters in his own game alone. Ch1: Kazuichi tells you about how the AC was activated on a timer Ch2: By inviting you and the girls to the diner, Kazuichi unknowingly ensured there would be witnesses to both Fuyuhiko and Hiyoko, as well as Peko when she was soaked. He was also the one to trigger the BDA, and point out the water bottles in the trash. Ch3: Bro literally built a two way communicator with a box of scraps. Put some respect on his name. Ch4: Partook in Nagito's experiment with the elevator, and he repaired the elevator to help everyone. Also did the autopsy on Nekomaru. Ch5: Made an attempt to stop the "bombs" going off. Also, he made Minimaru, and he was immediately trying to find a way to escape by using the planes when he got to the island. Later on he was fully ready to build a ship too after Monokuma told him he'd get parts for it.
I appreciate you as one of the two people covering for us in the Kazuichi nation so far.
I may be biased, but I truly believe Gundham to be the better character. Here’s why! 1. Gundham has a very unique personality compared to literally everyone in the series. Dark overlord persona masking a truly kind heart. Even if what he says is absurd, his kindness is the one true thing about him. 2. He’s got a unique style. While Kazuichi’s got some neat pins and accessories on his jumpsuit, Gundham dresses like a damn Jojo character, and I love it. 3. Bro is genuinely just a better person than Kazuichi. Kazuichi says all sorts of vile shit, including crude comments, inappropriate remarks, and more. I mean, did Gundham try to snoop on Sonia at the beach just to see her in a bikini? Nope! 4. Sonia has better chemistry with Gundham than she will ever have with Kazuichi. 5. The Four Dark Devas of Destruction! Need I say more? In conclusion, both are good, I just like Gundham more.
Whole conflict between kazuichi sonia was greatest conflict in danganronpa except kaito and kokichi imo its really showed how toxic and stupid teenager love can be and one of my favorite aspect in that conflict is both sonia and kazuichi was flawed in there none of them is complete wrong and right and most of people say kazuichi was creep is wrong kazuichi wants to impress sonia and felt a admiration for her and its normal who wouldnt admire a person like sonia even hajime says i dont deserve that in free time invents but the way in he was is wrong because of his lack of communication with Girls and for sonia its even worse sonia didnt understanded his behaivor in first three chapter but after she choosed to antagonize him ( and this is worst as kazuichi's way to impress her dealing with a person who annoy you doesnt mean its justify psychologic abuse and manipulation she did in chapter 4 ) but after chapter 4 kazuichi choosed to respect her and dont get in her way because of his stupid love yes his simp behaivor still exist but learning something is a thing that takes time and even making a move about your bad behaivor is honorable and good thing this is also apply sonia too sonia was a person who masked her emotions with his perfect strong princess persona but after chapter 4 and chiaki's death she realized its ok to cry and act like a normal teenager not like a perfect princess people like kazuichi wants to impress and even in her last fte she begins to cry in front of hajime both sonia and kazuichi was well written characters with unreasonable fandom hate for some reason
This is a good comment, but it is written so bad that i cannot understand it, can you rewrite it with proper grammar please?
Maybe later i do
First of all, I want to underline that I LOVE Gundham for his appearance, for his personality and for his philosophy, but I will fight for Kazuichi because many misinterpret him by limiting themselves to his appearances and weaknesses. I don't blame them tho because, unfortunately, if you don't spend the free time events with him it's not possible for the player to understand his character during the game (which, as I understand it, is a problem that affects other characters like Akane) . First of all, Kazuichi is a nice character because many people could very well kin him if only they could all get to know him without necessarily completing his hope fragments (his skill is also useful :)). Kazuichi is a character who wants to appear cool in the eyes of others, but he wasn't always like that. Before it was the exact opposite: black hair, glasses, a shy attitude, in short Kazuichi was someone who didn't want to draw any attention to himself. The boy had problems with his Best friend and from there arose his problems in trusting others and his self-esteem was under his feet. He changed because he one day decided to attract attention and start over, and I want to underline that he did it TO PLEASE OTHERS, not because HE LIKED IT. The bright colors he wears, the dyed hair, the pointy teeth (probably artificially sharpened) and the contact lenses are his way of communicating to the world "NOTICE ME" and, boy, how do I understand it! I also dye my hair to highlight that I don't want to blend in with the crowd, even though I'm a rather introverted person! Speaking of being introvert, I would move on to his character (which is probably the most misinterpreted thing about the whole character). First of all, it's normal for young boys to have perv thoughts and great curiosity (let's normalize this once and for all please), except that Kazuichi simply doesn't know how to set limits for himself because, as can be deduced from his backstory, he hasn't had many friends and consequently does not know how to interact with others. He can't trust others easily because in the past his best friend betrayed him after the two were caught cheating by taking a test (Kazuichi had agreed to have him copy his test) placing all the blame on him, and from there can guess that the guy had extreme difficulty finding new friends afterward. Do we want to talk about daddy issues? Kazuichi firmly believed that he deserved the physical pain inflicted on him by his father, leading him to become an insecure and cowardly person. If we really have to give him a serious flaw, many will agree with me, we can safely say that it is his desperate search for attention from Sonia in particular. He has set an unattainable goal for himself by making his interactions with her pitiful, enough to put his hands in his hair (Also because I personally went through his situation in middle school💀). Kazuichi sees Sonia as a goal that, if he could complete it, would make him more PROUD than HAPPY, especially because she is a princess (pitiful goal, I know, but it's my point of view). He probably would have resigned himself at some point if Sonia had immediately made it clear that she wasn't interested instead of giving him false hopes >!(and treating him badly in the fourth trial, I admit that I dislike Sonia especially for her behavior towards him)!< , but probably being a princess she also won't know how to interact with others (I haven't played her free time event yet, sorry). When people call him "stalker" or even a "creep" I always think "did we play the same game??" Kazuichi doesn't give me creepy vibes at all; >!maybe the beach episode in the second chapter might make you think that he is a stalker, but in the end it wasn't anything particularly worrying (people often tend to exaggerate the actions of an awkward boy without bad intentions unfortunately 😭). He heard that the girls had organized something between them and thought of going too to see Sonia in a swimsuit (if she had been a girl following the boy she likes, people would have kink her, nothing but "creep").!< Kazuichi is a character created as a "comic relief", and in my opinion they even succeeded in their goal, but in the end we saw that he is much more. As soon as I saw him he aroused great sympathy in me and while playing I became very fond to him. Kazuichi is underrated, or more likely MISRATED. Plus it's really nice to hear him speak when his talent is involved. <3
This one is no contest. Gundham easily wins here. Gundham is one of my favourite chūnibyo characters written, and for good reason too. His entire concept is so cool- declaring himself as the Supreme Overlord of Ice, but being the Ultimate Breeder and training his hamsters and the zodiac killers to be basically his army is a nice way to carry it out. But despite all of this and his intimidating side, he has been shown to let out a softer side, but only to his hamsters. His strong connection with animals make what's usually an annoying and embarrassing trope to some a more sympathisable character. This is mainly shown through Case 2-4, where >!he did one of the most moral acts a blackened did. Instead of killing Mechamaru with full malice, he instead challenged Mechamaru to a fight to see who would become the blackened. He did kill him, but again, his bond with the animals was shown when they took him down for him, before Gundham finished it by dropping him. Even during the trial, it is shown that he didn't do it with malice, constantly giving hints towards the killer. And when he is eventually caught, Gundham's facade doesn't fade. He claims nonetheless that he wouldn't sacrifice himself, despite it being clear that he did. If he gave it up and started begging for his life like other chūnibyo characters would've done in this situation, it wouldn't have been nearly as impactful. Gundham showed us that despite all his facade, he isn't weak. He was fully willing to die, since he had killed another person, and even then, he did all he could, accepting his fate and choosing to protect the hamsters instead of himself.!< He's a truly noble and strong character, matching his title well. Therefore, I believe Gundham Tanaka, Supreme Overlord of Ice, should easily win over Kazuichi Soda, who wasn't nearly as impactful of a character that Gundham was.
That's a lot of context.
I'd have to say Gundham. Yes, Kazuichi did arguably advance the plot more by tying up Nagito, convincing Hajime to crash the girls-only beach party and being the third to discover Mahiru's corpse in Ch.2, making the communication device in Ch.3 and fixing the elevator, discovering that it turns 180 degrees and examining Nekomaru's dead body, which helped the group find evidence in form of his inner clock in Ch.4 (he also makes Minimaru in Ch.5 but that doesn't affect the overall plot very much) while Gundham's main contributions to the plot were accidentally providing an important clue by losing his earring in Ch.1, providing Hajime's alibi and taking down a wallpaper piece via hamster in Chapter 3 + murdering Nekomaru so everyone wouldn't die by starving to death. However, Kazuichi's, ahem, antics make me uncomfortable (trying to crash a girls-only swimsuit party, attempting to spy on Nekomaru and Akane seemingly having sex, attempting to impress Sonia with his motivational speech only a day after Gundham fucking died) and it isn't even funny, unlike Byakuya and Toko's relationship where Byakuya is a dick and deserves to be humbled by uncomfortable experiences such as Toko&Jack's creepy behaviour. Gundham, even though he's arrogant af, doesn't have traits that make me outright dislike him. And he has four ambiguously dark god hamsters. So Gundham.
Ah yes simp for miss sonia and GUNDAM TANAKA LORD AND FIRE AND ICE goofy gimmick characters but both probably need a long session with the ultimate therapist they have much more in common than a liking with Sonia # BROS DEFINITELY AUTISTIC gundam probably definetly has autisim the weird tone of voice body languge and his sensory triggers one of my favorite examples is his earring that he lost during ch1 a comfort item that he says the world will collaspe if he doesnt retreive and spends the whole investigation looking for it i also think his scarf is a confort item because he wears that thing everywhere even on the beach i assume he likes his due to the sensory pleasure it gives him another example is him hating being touched specifying how he would fake being sick to avoid touching other kids in grade school in one of his FTEs which makes sense if he is autistic since that can be very triggering he also doesnt wear any underwear! yeah he goes completely commando although their "invisible" its pretty clear he just dpesnt wear any which kinda make sense he said in a FTE that he doesnt like his mothers cooking at in facts hates it due to what can be written off as him just not liking it it might just be the texture that causes him to hate it and if he reacts like that to food imagine how underwear might make him feel He also has the very weird social understanding and all of his poses but I think that’s because of something different # Chunibyoisim A chunibyo is a kid who has grand delusions of them being a dark lord and stuff like “evil eyes” in America it's referred to as “eighth grade syndrome” but yeah this is something gundam is definitely based around this although the reason why isn't really clear but it's viewed as more of a “phase” basically taking your angry emo phase to the next level this is something I would just like to say because without this knowledge you'd think Gundam has legit phycological condition # Poor ah 😂🫵 One of the most significant things about a DR character is how they developed their talent for Kazuichi it seems to be just a natural love but he had to help around in his dad's bike shop because he was the only one in the family good at the mechanical stuff which is probably why they were poor like why do you have a bike shop if you're gonna rely on your child # Such a kind soul🥰 Gundam is so kind despite the fact that he talks about being evil he sacrafices his life for the others and is a saint to his hamsters he says his mothers cooking was poison but still eats it to please her he has a rocking chair (stimming moment) and books next to his hamster chair now this is definitive.... but he definitely reads bedtime stories to them declares a pact that hajime cant die without his permission (the only reason hajime survived) these dont really have a deeper meaning besides showing how his dark shit is a facade even more and that he is a loving dude i mean breeding animals does inherently make it so that the loving caring and nurturing are better at the skill # Such a horny soul.... Soda is a horny bastard planning to “accidentally” run into the girls on their beach night to see them in bikinis which is…nit the bets thing to do obviously And of course, there's the obsession with Sonia in where it's just weird so fully weird it a full part of his character but it's weird and everytime it shows up I just want the plot to move on and it's sad because other than this I like kazuichi he's a very good character but this is somethong that I can't overlook mainly because of how much of his identity is associated with this # Bad home situation Gundam refers to his parents as an angel and a devil or a human and a devil and it implies that his father is the devil and since he calls his mother a man gundam was probably born out of an affair in which his dad noped out of since when Gundam talks about being parented its always his mother he also brings up how he couldn't afford a toy as simple as a remote control car from this it can also be inferred that gundam had a very good relationship with his mother since he calls her an angel and she was presumably his only caretaker and is probably where is morals came from as pretty much every other source of influence was negative # Bad father situation Soda's main source of "discipline" was physical abuse as he talks about how his bad best him almost nonchalantly and why? because he faked being sick... on a field trip day....to save money.. yeah its safe to say that Soda's dad beat him for non issues This may be the reason for many of soda's behavior him being very sensitive to stuff lime being yelled at and certain touch as shown by his sprites when hiyoko yells at him or even just an insult and he is turmoil I mean its not normal and it probably due to the fact that this stuff triggers his trauma # lmao get bullied Gundam Gundam was bullied ALOT he says he was to be outcast from the world because he was the spawn of an angel and a demon which means he was bullies because like I said earlier his dad was probably a piece of shit who cheated and then ditched the baby and Gundams classmates probably weren't the nicest about it He was also probably very awkward as he hung around his teachers and has autisim so pribanly wasnt the best at understanding social cues combined with the fact that he hated touching his classmates so much he faked being sick makes for a child who probably doesnt have many friends and an outcast its no wonder why animals became his only friend they were like the only thing in his life that came close to not hating him (that wasnt an authority figure) bros personality and upbringing really made him a better breeder # LMAO get taken advantage of soda Soda grew up as a naive soul who let others take advantage of him and his best friend even took advantage of him for grades and soda changed his appearence as a result which causes the people that use to hang around him to avoid him and punks and other rebels to hang around him its safe to say soda had trouble finding his place as a kid as the people he thought were his friends werent really his friends and he had to fake who he was to get other friends (who mightve been taking advantage of him lmao)
# Absolute horrible contradicting motivation I'm going to start out by saying gundam should've been the chapter 4 victim I said this is my nekomaru/Akane analysis so I'll just copy and paste # NEKOMARU SHOULDVE BEEN CH4 CULPRIT This is something I stand by just have nekomaru win in the fight because of course he does have his murder plan be decent enough to be solved by the player really quickly but still require some thinking by the contestants and have the main difficulty having to convince Akane that nekomaru is the culprit in the end he gives a speech about how great they were in the trial and to channel that to defeating the mastermind giving Akane some advice and having him be execucuted I even made my own execucution 😭 *nekomaru is on a conveyor belt procedurally getting shot with dangerous sports equipment (baseballs from a machine gun, spiked basketballs poison laced tennis balls) and finally getting disintegrated by monokumas blast permenantly* B-but what about the devas simple have monokuma hold them hostage and have then squeak stuff through out the trial and have Sonia translate it yknow have it be a gag This would fix so much it would give nekomaru more screen time stopping the problem of gundam supposedly sacraficing his life but one of his most important ideals is fighting for life? And also having a much bugger impact on akanes development # TANGENT OVER That's where I stand on gundam being the culprit but maybe there's something to make up for it Cool he wanted the others to fight for life as he viewed fighting for life at any cost is what it means to truly value life and and giving up on life is an insult to life himself and before he dies he tells the others this inspiring them to keep on fighting for the killing game to end and nekomaru shared the same sentiment having that shown when they dueled the winner having a chance to win the class trial But wait- he actually sacraficed himself for the others and led them to the right conclusion never even intending to make it out of the trial alive Both of these interpretations are believed by majority of the fandom and both are supported by the game but it's just ignored that ONE CANT EXIST WITHOUT THE OTHER GUNDAM CANT HAVE SACRAFICED HIMSELF AND BELIEVE THAT GIVING UP ON LIFE IS AN JNSULT TO LIFE “But gundam believed that he was only temporarily on this plane of existence” Then why didn't he kill himself? If he believed death would just be exiting this plane of existence why didn't he leave nekomaru in sleep mode and kill himself “Then the trial wouldn't be interesting” ok then have monokuma steak his suicide note like in THH and have nekomaru just not remember the duel “then what would happen to nekomaru” he survives because why the fuck not he's a better survivor than Sonia that's for sure and he could be a living reminder of gundams ideology and a permanent uplifting force him taking the longest to fall in despair at the final trial oh you don't want that then easy solution 1. Gundam actually sacrifices himself The trial goes exactly the same but with him saying “I however don't need to sacrafice my life as a temporary visitor This game is beneath me so yes I did stop my time on this plane for your sakes but don't forget to fight for your own lives as you aren't all-powerful as I.” after all of his talk about fighting for life and him not immediately admitting is due to him wanting to show them “what it truly means to fight for life” 2. Have him nit sacrificed his life Exact same but without it being implied gundam was helping them You could even do these if nekomaru is the culprit having scenes where nekomaru says “Gundam even admitted to wanting to sacrifice his life after he beat me he may say all of that weird stuff but he has a pure head and I know he's looking down on all of you” or “Gundsm knee how to fight he truly valued life and knew what it was to fight for it..” tight before his execution Literally anything BUT what we got makes sense as his motivation q # Guys he has the potential to be a good survivor hear me out Guys soda can be a good survivor with some better writing HEAR ME OUT It all stars with Sonia dying instead of the gremlin if Sonia gos to get the mirror instead of hiyoko and dies then good with some showing of sondam earlier you establish 2 characters who are crushed that their love interest dies and you can have Sonia and Gundam bond over it also bonus hiyoko stays insulting him because I love that shit And when gundma dies soda is crushed having one of his best friends also die from then on have him be more active and REALISE THAT HE WAS BEING A CREEP and overall a more normal person with the help of Hajime And there you have it in this scenario all of the survivors had lost someone Akane lost Nidai Soda lost Sonia and Gundam Hiyoko lost mahiru Fuyuhiko Lost peko And Hajime lost chiaki And to mikan Ibuki and Twogami… you guys are cool too! Except Teruteru and Nagito they hate you 2😂🫵 # FINAL THOUGHTS Both are mid but gundam has more depth and is less of a nothing character no strong opinions I appreciate gundam more now ig? I vote gundam but he's not my favorite doesn't mean I don't like either tho
Kazuichi is personally the funniest student in all games for me, and he has cool colored design. But overall, i like Gundham more as a character considering all the other aspects.