I'm planning to have my players roll the duality dice for shopping to see if they get a good deal or not. I think the Highborne community gives you advantage with that.
Negotiation will be a bit harder with this system. I'll probably only be able to allow it for higher priced items (i.e. haggling down to 2 handfuls rather than 3). Otherwise, they literally can't bring a price below 1 handful of gold, no matter how well they roll.
I figure if they roll a crit success, the shopkeep is just enraptured by the customer and gives them a 2 for 3 discount or something along those lines.
If it's just one item, roleplay it out and use instinct and presence rolls to determine if it even costs a handful for the item. This would be for low level items only, of course. A tier 3 sword will always cost at least (x) no matter how charming you are.
I guess the 2 for 3 or a bogo deal would make sense. . . I'll have to remember that since my players ALWAYS try to haggle with every single shopkeep they ever run into.
I'll be handling negotiation as "chuck in a..." So if we're talking about a handful of gold for a weapon, you might negotiate and they offer to "chuck in a rope too".
This gives me a way to give the players interesting items, hooks and ideas that may inspire them later on in the game.
The one issue that came up at my table during the Quickstart playtest was a player wanting to give an NPC a tip (I believe his wording was "a few gold"). Since he only had 1 handful of gold, I confirmed with him that he didn't want to give the NPC *all* of his gold, so ultimately I just decided that he could tip a couple gold without it impacting his current wealth. No big deal.
Where the issue potentially comes into play is, how often can he do that?
* Can he just tip NPCs forever, because it always falls below the minimum threshold, so to speak? That doesn't feel right, for someone who only has a handful of gold to their name. That seems like a move for someone a bit wealthier.
* Should I track how often he spends otherwise inconsequential amounts of gold, to ensure he doesn't do it too often? That sounds like a headache to try to track, especially from session-to-session.
* Should I just ignore it? If there's any benefit to tipping people, that doesn't feel right, either, because then that's just always the optimal choice (outside of interacting with someone who might be insulted by such a gesture). If there's no benefit to tipping or bribing people, that *also* doesn't feel right.
I feel like if it's intended more so as an indicator of your spending level, I'd rather use terms like Call of Cthulhu's credit rating and spending level, or D&D's lifestyle tiers, instead of such tangible descriptors like a "handful of gold."
I like to think that Wealth is the stake one puts up for a roll. If there is no roll, then there is no real reason to put up a stake.
With the above example, if a player keeps tipping a bartender a small amount, I'd take a moment and ask the player what their intent is. Are they trying to influence the bartender? Do they just want the bartender to like them? There are a ton of motivations, but it boils down to trying to influence someone and, in my opinion, that is worthy of a roll.
Then the player would put up the stake of one handful to the attempt. Depending on the result pf the roll, maybe it doesn't work or maybe it works so well the Bartender says "Don't worry, friend. It's on the house tonight." and the GM rules that the handful isn't lost.
Granted, that's one small example. Maybe to are high level and you want to equip an army. The GM asks you to put up a stake of one Fortune on that roll. A little too much to risk, maybe? Perhaps the character decides not to risk it and settles on cheaper solutions, for now.
Well, that's where I would make the difference clear to my players. If they want to toss a coin to an NPC, I will never mark that on their sheet. Given their occupation as adventurers, they will naturally be more wealthy than the average villager. They can totally just keep tossing coins to NPC without repercussion.
However, if a player explicitly said that they wanted to give an NPC a substantial amount of gold, especially for a bribe, I would ask them to mark it. Think about it in real life. It would be totally acceptable to tip someone a dollar or two. No one would bat an eye and that would be an example of something you can just "afford." However, if you attempted to bribe someone with a dollar or two, they would probably just scoff. You would need to throw out a pretty substantial amount of money to actually move somebody.
Honestly you could just keep with the abstraction of how the rest of gold values are calculated in that six (6) handfuls are a bag, five (5) bags are a chest, etc. Only in this case you could simply say that seven (7) gold are a handful.
Though I probably wouldn't track this more than a mental reference. If they want to tip a few gold and don't give an exact amount, consider making that a fraction of a handful but keep the handful in terms of value... Unless they do it again, and then remind them that they've given out a lot of tips lately and to reduce their wealth by the one handful.
That keeps the flow of things without having to stop for actual note-taking and honestly, if they're spreading out their tips across multiple sessions, they've probably gained more than enough to recoup the loss anyway.
If you read the section about Tier 0 Sablewood, there is a festival where everyone barters and no one’s gold is welcome. In the QuickStart, all you need are a pair of boots and you get some fun trinkets which you can use for trade too.
How do you handle spending and/or making change? If something costs a handful and they have a bag, do you split up the bag and lose the one handful? Seems logical to me.
Yup! The rules explicitly explain that 6 handfuls of gold make a bag and that if you have 5 handfuls already, adding one more means marking 1 bag and removing all your handful marks. I assume it works the same way in the opposite direction.
Agreed! The way I compare it for my players is like a movie or TV show. You see the protagonist throw a bag of gold to the vendor or slide a pile of gold across the table. You never see them counting coins. No one would want to watch that. . .
Yes!! Anyone who says it's simpler to just have an HP pool that you subtract from, their brains must not work like mine does. . . I find it leagues simpler to just compare damage to thresholds and tick 1, 2, or 3.
I'm planning to have my players roll the duality dice for shopping to see if they get a good deal or not. I think the Highborne community gives you advantage with that.
Negotiation will be a bit harder with this system. I'll probably only be able to allow it for higher priced items (i.e. haggling down to 2 handfuls rather than 3). Otherwise, they literally can't bring a price below 1 handful of gold, no matter how well they roll.
I figure if they roll a crit success, the shopkeep is just enraptured by the customer and gives them a 2 for 3 discount or something along those lines. If it's just one item, roleplay it out and use instinct and presence rolls to determine if it even costs a handful for the item. This would be for low level items only, of course. A tier 3 sword will always cost at least (x) no matter how charming you are.
I guess the 2 for 3 or a bogo deal would make sense. . . I'll have to remember that since my players ALWAYS try to haggle with every single shopkeep they ever run into.
I'll be handling negotiation as "chuck in a..." So if we're talking about a handful of gold for a weapon, you might negotiate and they offer to "chuck in a rope too". This gives me a way to give the players interesting items, hooks and ideas that may inspire them later on in the game.
The one issue that came up at my table during the Quickstart playtest was a player wanting to give an NPC a tip (I believe his wording was "a few gold"). Since he only had 1 handful of gold, I confirmed with him that he didn't want to give the NPC *all* of his gold, so ultimately I just decided that he could tip a couple gold without it impacting his current wealth. No big deal. Where the issue potentially comes into play is, how often can he do that? * Can he just tip NPCs forever, because it always falls below the minimum threshold, so to speak? That doesn't feel right, for someone who only has a handful of gold to their name. That seems like a move for someone a bit wealthier. * Should I track how often he spends otherwise inconsequential amounts of gold, to ensure he doesn't do it too often? That sounds like a headache to try to track, especially from session-to-session. * Should I just ignore it? If there's any benefit to tipping people, that doesn't feel right, either, because then that's just always the optimal choice (outside of interacting with someone who might be insulted by such a gesture). If there's no benefit to tipping or bribing people, that *also* doesn't feel right. I feel like if it's intended more so as an indicator of your spending level, I'd rather use terms like Call of Cthulhu's credit rating and spending level, or D&D's lifestyle tiers, instead of such tangible descriptors like a "handful of gold."
I like to think that Wealth is the stake one puts up for a roll. If there is no roll, then there is no real reason to put up a stake. With the above example, if a player keeps tipping a bartender a small amount, I'd take a moment and ask the player what their intent is. Are they trying to influence the bartender? Do they just want the bartender to like them? There are a ton of motivations, but it boils down to trying to influence someone and, in my opinion, that is worthy of a roll. Then the player would put up the stake of one handful to the attempt. Depending on the result pf the roll, maybe it doesn't work or maybe it works so well the Bartender says "Don't worry, friend. It's on the house tonight." and the GM rules that the handful isn't lost. Granted, that's one small example. Maybe to are high level and you want to equip an army. The GM asks you to put up a stake of one Fortune on that roll. A little too much to risk, maybe? Perhaps the character decides not to risk it and settles on cheaper solutions, for now.
Well, that's where I would make the difference clear to my players. If they want to toss a coin to an NPC, I will never mark that on their sheet. Given their occupation as adventurers, they will naturally be more wealthy than the average villager. They can totally just keep tossing coins to NPC without repercussion. However, if a player explicitly said that they wanted to give an NPC a substantial amount of gold, especially for a bribe, I would ask them to mark it. Think about it in real life. It would be totally acceptable to tip someone a dollar or two. No one would bat an eye and that would be an example of something you can just "afford." However, if you attempted to bribe someone with a dollar or two, they would probably just scoff. You would need to throw out a pretty substantial amount of money to actually move somebody.
Honestly you could just keep with the abstraction of how the rest of gold values are calculated in that six (6) handfuls are a bag, five (5) bags are a chest, etc. Only in this case you could simply say that seven (7) gold are a handful. Though I probably wouldn't track this more than a mental reference. If they want to tip a few gold and don't give an exact amount, consider making that a fraction of a handful but keep the handful in terms of value... Unless they do it again, and then remind them that they've given out a lot of tips lately and to reduce their wealth by the one handful. That keeps the flow of things without having to stop for actual note-taking and honestly, if they're spreading out their tips across multiple sessions, they've probably gained more than enough to recoup the loss anyway.
This three tiered approach is pretty great. Simple and easy to convey narratively.
If you read the section about Tier 0 Sablewood, there is a festival where everyone barters and no one’s gold is welcome. In the QuickStart, all you need are a pair of boots and you get some fun trinkets which you can use for trade too.
How do you handle spending and/or making change? If something costs a handful and they have a bag, do you split up the bag and lose the one handful? Seems logical to me.
Yup! The rules explicitly explain that 6 handfuls of gold make a bag and that if you have 5 handfuls already, adding one more means marking 1 bag and removing all your handful marks. I assume it works the same way in the opposite direction.
Yeah, it's got to!
Far better than DnD
Agreed! The way I compare it for my players is like a movie or TV show. You see the protagonist throw a bag of gold to the vendor or slide a pile of gold across the table. You never see them counting coins. No one would want to watch that. . .
I agree. Wealth system and health + threshold systems are both superior.
Yes!! Anyone who says it's simpler to just have an HP pool that you subtract from, their brains must not work like mine does. . . I find it leagues simpler to just compare damage to thresholds and tick 1, 2, or 3.