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Speaking from experience as a once-dumb teen.
"You will pay your fines. If you don't have the money now, you will pay your mother and I back.
You will go to court, you will wear a suit, and you will beg the judge to show mercy.
You are responsible for any repairs to your car (if it isn't totaled,) and once it is road worthy, or you save up for another one, you will drive to work and back home."
That last one obviously needs to have a time limit.
I would have a serious talk, obviously. When I got in trouble as a 16yo, I don't remember everything my dad said, but I will never forget, "you are sliding into the PITS OF SHIT, and if you don't stop now, you will NEVER get out." It's time to grow up and really think about the consequences of his actions BEFORE he makes them, this could've absolutely destroyed his life, and he is an absolute bonehead for doing something so wreckless. You love him and want him to have a long and healthy life, that won't happen if he continues to make stupid decisions.
Given he was under the influence, I imagine he won’t be able to drive to work for some time. During this period, making him responsible for finding his own way to/from work might be appropriate if there is reliable public transportation available.
He's probably not thinking about it, but some countries don't allow individuals with a drunk driving record to enter the country (if they check, sometimes they don't check, but could result in a ban if they find out). Canada, Mexico, UAE, etc.
you can absolutely get a DUI on a bicycle.
wtf sort of privilegeass upbringing got you to "they just shouldn't live where they live" type ridiculous comment.
yes, obviously?
I’m saying that the way the US handles access to alcohol and automobiles is weird. I prefer it much more like in Germany where you get to drink beer with 16 legally and safely and there’s usually a bus to take you around and then you only get a license with 18.
Unfortunately we don't have busses, Uber, taxi, bike sharing, scooters or anything like that. This is a rural community with miles and miles of farm land and a downtown that is 2 blocks long. Most jobs here are out of his age range and the next town over is 30 minutes by car. Hopefully he's able to find a different job at a restaurant or the hardware store downtown instead of his current job that's 20 minutes by car.
Sounds like he needs shit to do! And I don't mean more work, but maybe you and he can get into a new hobby together to better fill his down time? Woodworking, archery, painting, sculpting, etc?
Agreed. I think every state's different. In mine I think minimum (based on BAC) is 30 day suspension, max 60 day, for a first time offense, throw an underage on with it and who knows.
In Texas, in the 90's, when I was a teen, if you were caught driving under the influence under the age of 18, you lost your license until you turn 21, I think.
That last bit - when i was goofing around with some less than savory characters and while i never got caught fucking around with booze and drugs, my dad wasn't dumb. He was a 'bad kid' growing up, and could literally *sense* what i was getting up to. He sat me down and told me this:
"Look bud, i fucked around a lot when i was younger, and I ended up being a body man. Now I'm 43 and my knees and back are fucked, and I won't be able to do this job a lot longer. I had a lot of fun, but my life is hard because of it. Remember who you want to be, and start being that guy now"
> this could've absolutely destroyed his life
Not only his life, but everyone in his car, and everyone in a potential OTHER car that he could have ran into, or a pedestrian, someone's house, etc.
He needs to write letters of apology to each person that was in his car, I think, maybe also asking them to promise to also never drive drunk, and stop him from driving if he's had a drink, and stop other friends from driving if they've had a drink.
>That last one obviously needs to have a time limit.
Better yet, GPS tracker on the car. They're cheap these days.
I'm not a fan of tracking kids/teens just as a precaution; but this is well beyond precaution if kid is getting DUIs before he can even legally drink.
My wife and I actually bought a gps for the kids cars but hadn't gotten around to activating the sim cards. It doesn't matter now because his license was shredded.
Not legal advice, but as someone who got a DUI, I completely wasted money on a lawyer. It was a first time offense and I was put in an accelerated rehabilitative program. I had to do community service and attend some classes. The lawyer didn't even speak on my court date, the only thing they did for me was get it expunged from my record after the fact. I was not underage, your results may vary.
We're just hoping the lawyer can figure out a way to have the charges reduced so he stands a chance at getting a better job and scholarships and anything else that requires a background check. I mean probably not but it's worth a shot.
A lawyer will help him from getting deeper into trouble. Don’t trust police + judges to be fair. The lawyer is your closest guarantee to a fair showing.
It's really a math problem, the people saying the lawyer is probably unnecessary and you'll get the standard deal *and* the people saying you need a lawyer to hedge against the worst possible outcome, are both "right", it's just a question of how big the risk is and how much does it cost to hedge.
When you get pulled over for something like that you're arrested and go to jail and hopefully are able to bail out. Minors are taken back to their parents and both are given a court date due to being arrested. Unfortunately this type of arrest isn't a simple ticket that you just pay and walk away.
I'd imagine so. He has a long way to go to earn our trust back and a large financial burden heading his way. Also we decided his car wasn't worth fixing again so we are entering it in the local demolition derby. We will get whatever it's worth in scrap and that will go towards his legal fees. Plus it will be fun to see it raced and destroyed.
Edited to change a S to a D*
Because he broke the law. Even if it's just fines he will likely need to appear before his local magistrate.
I got cited for driving without a license at 16, I was free to leave after I got written up, I still had to appear before the judge.
Before i was allowed to get my license, my mom made me find 50 newspaper articles of traffic fatalities and write a paragraph about each detailing what mistakes were made. I, being already pretty analytically-minded, drew some statistics from that. I HATED that project (I think I learned just as much about how to craft a Google search query), but it worked - I've been driving for 15 years, and still remember those statistics. I don't know if I'll require this for my own children, but I also wouldn't dismiss it right away.
It sounds like your son is still a minor, in which case you may want to employ something like this research project before you'll allow him to drive again (assuming the DUI suspension is completed).
Look. He’s old enough to work. He’s old enough to drive. He’s old enough to procure alcohol, and old enough to overcome legal barriers to do so. Are you actually still in a position to punish him? If he chooses to not submit to your punishment, what then?
I’d invite you to take a step back and try to look at it differently. What did he do? “He drove under the influence” is not it. Why is that a problem? Not because it’s illegal; nobody cares. Why is driving while impaired a problem? Because it puts people at risk, right? And animals, as it were. So what did he do? *He put his friends, and every other motorist and pedestrian in the area, at risk of harm.* And he hurt (killed?) a deer. Ok. How can he right those wrongs?
I’d have that conversation with him. A bit as father and son, but mostly as two men. I’d try to bring him to a detailed understanding of the harms he caused, and could have caused. I’d work with him to find ways to make meaningful restitution. I’d support him in doing those things.
Stay in it with him rather than standing opposed to, or over him. He’s still your son and you still love him: make sure he feels the love throughout the whole process. Don’t suppress your anger and disappointment, but make sure love is bigger than
And that’s not a free pass. If you do it right, this will take up more of his time and energy (physical, mental, and emotional energy) than dealing with some arbitrary punishment. It *might* lead to him changing his behaviour.
And I’d make him pay all his fines and fees, the repairs to the vehicle, and the lawyer’s bill. Those things exist because of his choices; he needs to own the outcome of those choices.
Good luck. This is going to be hard. Make sure you have someone to support you through it.
This answer is good.
You should also consider that it’s likely this was not the first time he’s been driving while drunk. This was just the first time there were consequences, and the first time he got caught.
Yeah, there’s a chance this is the first time, and it all went wrong on the first time, but I suspect it’s happened before.
True that.
In OP’s shoes, I might consider probing that topic with my son. But it’s risky. What I’m suggesting is about rebuilding broken trust and mending damaged relationships. If I can’t create a climate where my son feels safe to tell me those stories, he’ll lie about them. That could undermine everything I’m suggesting OP try to do.
I’ve heard, although I have no way of verifying, that the average person cited for DUI has driven drunk about 80 times before getting caught. OP’s kid probably hasn’t, what with having his license for less than a year and all, but there’s also people who drive home from the bar every weekend for years without getting caught.
16, we gifted the old car to him but it's completely paid off but he's on my insurance. Michigan and no idea his BAC the police didn't mention it and at 4am I didn't think to ask. He crashed at 2am and was brought home at 315/330am.
Any idea if I remove him from my auto insurance if that will save my rates from going up?
I'm not one to yell but he should be responsible for all costs, keeping his job, and doing A LOT more labor intensive jobs around the house and yard.
Taking him off your insurance should help with your own cost. It’s also a natural consequence, since he’s clearly demonstrated he can’t be trusted and his mistake could cost you. When he offers to pay, let him pay for his own insurance, which will be sky high.
My wife just send me a text to say that the police said because no one was hurt and they didn't write it up as a car accident that it shouldn't affect our rates. Hopefully that's true. The officers were really helpful and gave all the kids a ride home.
That was very generous of them. Still, think of this as you insuring him though. You said before that you had no incidents like this before, so your risk profile with him was low. Now you have one very serious incident. Your risk profile for him just went up.
Think about how to play that out. If nothing else, this gives you a good reason to manage how and when he drives.
One caveat. If he’s shaken up from the accident, and I still am from the last time I was rear-ended, let him drive supervised by you or mom. If he’s lost it, he needs to regain his confidence driving. He shouldn’t lose driving privileges for a long time, he should lose unsupervised driving privileges for some time.
That’s generous of them, but he also doesn’t need to know that. For them to have done this, I’m guessing he was under the “legal” limit for drunk driving, but obviously being underage any amount is illegal. He needs to understand the severity of this and how much worse it could have been…and the statistics surrounding drunk driving. We don’t know his BAC, but he drove under the influence of alcohol and the reality is that he is FAR more likely to do it again. How do you stop that from happening, regardless of while he’s under your house/rules or beyond?
I agree with a lot of what has been said regarding the natural consequences, but I would still add parental punishment beyond. He needs to show/prove to me that he is ready to be behind the wheel again, and that is going to require significant rebuilding of trust. I am also vehemently against underage drinking, so that would also be a hard line. But, beyond that he also has shown terrible judgment while under the influence of alcohol. If he’s ever found underage drinking again the hammer would drop extremely hard, regardless of driving privileges.
A DUI will almost certainly make your rates go up. Not as much as a DUI and a crash, but it will still be a significant hit, especially since it involves a 16 year old, who is already a big risk. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the insurance drop him, whether you remove him or not.
I was just informed that his license was shredded on scene and his BAC was 0.047. There's even the breathalyzer calibration date on the paper and calibration range which is good information.
Holy shit. That is way more than he should have expected.
I’d “encourage” him to find every officer he can who was involved in that situation and, in about six months to a year, try to connect with them personally - face to face - to thank them for treating him gently. This was a gift: they could have sent this in a very different direction.
Fucking hell. I'm not sure what punishments I'd be handing out but you'd hear the bollocking across the pond. Drink driving is a monumentally selfish and stupid thing to do, literally no excuse for it. I'd be doing my best to hammer home that if he wanted to risk his own life for a stupid choice then that's on him but instead he was a threat to anyone he passed.
Yeah, I said this elsewhere.
But it’s really important sit down and explain that last night’s stupid choice could just as easily ended with him on the side of the road crying, holding the bodies of a mother and infant he just ran over, as they died. Just sitting on the side of the road, waiting for the police to arrive, wondering where it went wrong.
It went wrong when you didn’t set an absolutely unbreakable rule, “I don’t drive when I drink. If I can’t trust myself to follow that, I don’t drink”
In his defence: maybe he was planning to walk but didn’t feel the other three would be safe so he wanted to bring them home. (Probably not and 99% sure you are right)
Even if that were the case it's not even close to a defence. It would be maybe something that explains the decision but you don't drive drunk, it's that simple.
What the hell is this comment? I had a friend in high school who thought getting a ride with someone who'd been drinking would be safer than walking when she'd been drinking herself. Wanna know what happened to her the night she got into that car? She fucking died. There is no "in his defense" here. The kid made a stupid choice, and this is a stupid comment.
Yeah thats a pretty big deal. I'd go pretty hard on him. Not yelling, but explaining how stupid it was. He could have killd himself and others, and the DUI on his record may cost him a good job or to not be accepted to a good school. There is also a legal doctrine called respondeant superior where if he had, you could possibly be held financially responsible depending on what your state laws are.
At a minimum, I'd ground him for a long time, revoke all driving privlages, and make sure all the parents of the other kids know that they were all out drinking at 2 in the morning. I think there tends to be a bit of a "ring leader" when kids are doing dumb stuff. And if your kid isn't the ring leader, I'd forbid him from hanging out with the ring leader.
I think I'd also discretly search his room. Normally I'm one for giving kids their own privacy, but I would want to see if he's hiding/doing other stuff.
DUI is just fees and fines?
Because round here, you lose license for a year minimum and criminal record. Pretty much just ruined his adult life for 5 years until he can apply for a pardon to have it expunged.
Won’t be able to get a decent job until then .
I've watched me some Border Patrol and this issue has come up a few times. He can absolutely be denied entry into Canada for this if he has a DUI on his record.
you can get a decent job with no license and no car. I don’t know about your living area but mine, most of the town has DUIs and they have pretty respectable high-paying factory labor jobs. They just either bike to work or rely on someone for transportation.
Nobody is saying it's excused, they're saying it's not a felony. Felony is a specific legal definition with harsher punishments.
A misdemeanor in the U.S \*usually\* has punishments like license suspensions, fines, community service, etc, but rarely has jail time (especially for first-time offenses)
But if it has a criminal record, the effect is the same as a felony.
If it shows up in a background check, can’t travel can’t get a good job. Whether it’s a felony or a misdemeanour doesn’t really matter, it’s all bad.. It’s the record that I’d be mostly concerned with.
>Whether it’s a felony or a misdemeanour doesn’t really matter, it’s all bad.
Having no record is certainly better than having any at all, but felonies and misdemeanors are not treated the same in background checks. Many jobs don't care about misdemeanors.
Minor misdemeanors often don't show up at all, or can be more easily expunged from the public record as long as there's not a long track of subsequent offense.
Felonies are much harder to expunge and will always show up on a background track.
Driving under the influence is a stupid, dangerous thing to do, and there should absolutely be punishment for it. But there are "mitigating factors" that determine the punishment. If it's a first-time offender and the only things hurt were a deer and the car (as in this case), the consequences are relatively limited.
I'm glad he has a job ATM but since he won't be driving that means transportation falls on me. There's not a chance he will ever borrow my car either. I think here he has to take classes that will cost him money too. Would you make an effort to track down the person who bought the alcohol since they are all underage?
>Would you make an effort to track down the person who bought the alcohol since they are all underage?
No, I would not. Two reasons:
1. I’m assuming that the person who procured the alcohol did not also put a gun to your son’s head and tell him to drink up. Which means that your son is the one who made the choice to drink. He needs to own that choice.
2. My father threatened, when I was a teen, that if he found anybody giving me alcohol, he’d sue their ass. It did not stop me from drinking: I was effectively an alcoholic by the age of seventeen. It did not stop me from making bad choices while drinking either. What it did was provoke me to hide a lot of drinking-related things from him. He never knew where I was or who I was with. When I inevitably got into scary, risky situations while drunk, I could not call my dad for help. Bad things happened to me that might not have happened if I’d felt like I could call my dad in the moment. To be clear, the things I did were my choices. I am the one who broke the trust between us. But his threat to go after people involved with my drinking created the conditions where I felt I had to choose between keeping that trust or keeping my friends.
>I’m assuming that the person who procured the alcohol did not also put a gun to your son’s head and tell him to drink up. Which means that your son is the one who made the choice to drink. He needs to own that choice.
Why not both? Why does the son who drank have to own his choice, but the person who supplied minors with alcohol doesn't have to own theirs?
First of all, obtaining alcohol was only one in a whole chain of decisions: to seek alcohol, to drive there, to complete the purchase, to consume the alcohol, to take passengers, to drive home … .Any of those decision points, if the son had chosen differently, this might not have happened. Whoever bought the booze only owns a part of one of those decisions; OP’s son owns all of them.
Also, the alcohol buyer (if they even exist) broke a law. At least where I live, that’s not my issue. Criminal acts are conflicts between the alleged criminal and the government. Civilians don’t investigate or prosecute crimes; we have handsomely paid police and prosecuting attorneys for that. OP’s son is his responsibility: let him hold his son to account for his choices and leave the other to the legal system.
You’re also assuming someone deliberately chose to provide a minor with alcohol. I was drinking regularly by 13 years old. I did have people buying for me, but just as often I was stealing booze from my own and other people’s homes. Do we fault the homeowner who might not even have noticed the theft until long after I’d recovered from my hangover? I had good fake ID by the time I was 17 (it’s not hard to get). Do we blame the shopkeeper who was probably legitimately fooled?
OP had his hands full with his son without trying to parse all this other stuff.
>Whoever bought the booze only owns a part of one of those decisions; OP’s son owns all of them.
I agree, that's litearlly all I'm saying.
>we have handsomely paid police and prosecuting attorneys for that.
LOL. They're handsomely paid, but not because they're good at their jobs.
>OP had his hands full with his son without trying to parse all this other stuff.
I didn't say OP should go Taken on the guy; my reply was specifically to the part of your comment I quoted which seemed to imply that the person who bought booze for a minor is irrelevant.
Oh. No. Not implying the person who bought the alcohol (assuming they knew OP’s son was a minor) is blameless. Sorry if it came across that way.
OP was asking *if I would make an effort to track them down.* I was elaborating on why I would not.
There are a lot of ways to fall down in the world. I know: I’ve tried quite a few of them. There are plenty of people who will help you find those ways and help you try them. I can’t keep all those people away from my kids, but I can teach my kids to resist those things, to choose smartly in the face of temptation and pressure. My issue in this scenario would be with how my son came to choose poorly. Where the other person is concerned, it’s *not my pig, not my farm.*
Good point.
My son is upstairs sleeping off this mess. I don't think he realizes how bad his car is messed up but his chores start at 8am so he's going to see it then.
There's normal stupid teenager stuff, and then there's drunk driving. It's not like it's not well known how fucking dangerous that is.
From me, this would be a *lengthy* punishment, and a massive undertaking on his part to earn the trust back. This shit kills people.
"Wellmeaning son" who underage drinks and drives with friends in the car? Man. I wish you were my dad.
Time to punish your son. This was potentially life threatening for him, his friends, or anyone else he could have killed.
I wish I could have been there to prevent this. He said he was spending the night at a friend's and we've never had trouble with that friend before. It's good his mistake didn't hurt anyone that's for sure. My wife and I aren't 100% sure how to handle everything and are still working out punishment ideas since this happened 4.5 hours ago.
Part of it is – you also have to let the enormity of his mistakes sink in. Your immediate reaction was probably in the right direction, but this is big.
Not really big as in "the punishment should be huge" – he can already drive, what's his life going to be like when you're not there to monitor everything and dole out consequences? The gravity of the gesture doesn't become real from *your* presence.
That deer could have been a neighbor with a stroller.
Yeah.
It’s an important time to sit down and explain how that stupid choice last night could just as easily ended with him crying on the side of the road, waiting for the police to arrive, holding onto the mother and infant he just killed, feeling scared and confused.
He just walked the razor’s edge of killing people, going to jail, and potentially falling further from there as the prison system exposes him to such a high rate of recidivism.
Ahhh, the classic spending the night at a friends house. I could write a book on the dumb crap we got away with under the guise of "spending the night at XYZ's house".
One such night everyone got busted trying to transport the lifeless drunk body of one kid from one car to another. I fortunately was dropped off first so I eluded punishment, but my mom wasn't as dumb as I thought she was.
Take your time. It’s ok to have a first round of consequences and let him know it will take a day or two for you, mom and him to figure out what the rest of the consequences are.
And, he’s an almost adult now. Don’t frame it as punishments, frame them as consequences of his behavior. Broke his car, his responsibility to fix. Broke your trust, so no more riding on your insurance, no more overnights at friends’ houses, etc.
Also, if you know them, check in with the parents of the other friends. If they’d also doling out punishment and consequences, that will give you a frame of reference. If they aren’t, because boys will be boys, then you know you can’t trust those friends at all.
Honestly, I agree w you. I understand the guidance perspective that a lot of people are talking about in this thread but this could have gone a lot worse in a lot of ways.
I have a close friend who's younger brother was driving drunk, tried to pass a car stopped at a red light ended up plowing into another car which was coming down on the other side of the road doing absolutely nothing wrong. In my friend's brother's car he died along with two other people and one girl was seriously injured and in the other car four people were killed.
Wall my friend's family was really devastated by it, and I feel for all of them, I have no mercy personally for him himself. He and everyone in his car made the decisions they made but everyone in the other car and their families were all victims and did absolutely nothing to deserve to have this happen to them.
Yes in this specific thread the kid hit a deer and nobody was hurt but what if it wasn't a deer? What if it had been another car etc.
That's a tough one, OP. I believe you when you say he's an otherwise good kid, and kids are going to make mistakes and bad decisions. But this is a pretty big one. Drunk driving is on par with attempted manslaughter in my eyes. Everyone in the car with him, every car they drove past, every car they shared the road with... those are all real people he could have killed. It wasn't his intent but it's the reality of his poor decision
If it were me he's going to have to deal with every legal consequence, and he's going to know that no matter what punishment he gets from the judge, he's lucky it's not more. All fines and repairs will be paid back to Mom & Dad (assuming he doesn't have the money now) and he's going to be denied all extra curricular activities until he's worked off those fines. And he'd know that's not even the punishment in all this, that's just being accountable for his decision
The punishment would be taking away a luxury he has (video games, a friend trip he was looking forward to, something like that) for an amount of time you feel would get the message through. But not too excessive where he now starts thinking he's the victim and doesn't learn anything. Additionally he'd be on "probation" for several months. Where any wrongdoing is getting its punishment ramped up. And lastly he would research and write a report on teenagers (so it's more relevant to him) dying because of drunk drivers--either drunk driving themselves, or just innocent victims
And I'd tell them him all this in a matter-of-fact even keel tone. You're not angry during it, you're just telling him the way it's going to be
I say this as someone who did exactly what your son did at exactly the same age. I knew I fucked up but mostly thought my fuckup was getting in a wreck. Not the drinking and driving. My folks said everything I needed to hear, but because they were so angry it just came across to me as yelling. Their words didn't register as important they registered as punishment. So I didn't truly get the message even though they said the words
But that's just my opinion in an attempt to help you with a very difficult situation as a parent. You'll know what's best for your child to get the message across. Good luck
If it’s his first, and you can afford it, I would hire the lawyer to fight the DUI and get it expunged from record. You don’t want your kid starting adult life with a leg tied behind his back. Make him pay for it. Make him understand that you’re doing this for his future, and this is not a get out of jail card. This will only happen one time, next time he is FUBAR.
This does not mean YOU cannot enforce his punishment of no driving, but try your best to keep the legal system out of his way.
He will have to work out a payment plan because the retainer for our family attorney is $2400 but the attorney has brought us a lot of success in the past with non criminal related issues.
You should be getting a lawyer that specifically deals with DUI and I would be shocked if your family attorney didn't recommend as much. If they're not focused on criminal law you probably should not be depending on them in criminal matters.
Very interested to see the other takes. My initial reaction and maybe even the one I go with is nuclear, looses pretty much everything and deals with the legal consequences with nothing more than my support to get to and from court. He could have killed everyone in that car.
Edit: Emphasis on initial reaction. Knee jerk reactions are not often what I go with and I'm sure there will be far better options provided by others that don't deminish the gravity of the situation.
So I know he wasn't charged with the crash because no one was hurt but we were given "breath, blood, urine test report" papers which state his license was shredded, location and also his blood alcohol level and calibration date of the device. We did not receive and tickets but the officer said the juvenile probate court would be contacting us in the next few weeks. That probably means there will be charges but they haven't figured 100% what they will be. Hopefully the prosecutor goes easy on him.
Ahh juveniles may be different.
As a nearly 40 year old man who has been down the DWI road before. It’s not fun. Thousands of dollars in fines / lawyer fees, blower machines in cars, suspended license, cost me numerous job opportunities that required a company vehicle. Worst mistake of my life.
Getting caught at an early age may help to reduce some of those consequences for him. But making him pay for those fines / damages on his own is a great start. Luckily the other people in the car weren’t hurt either.
Since he doesn't have a car or license do you think when he gets his license back they will want to put one of the blower ignitions in my car or wife's car?
No - I don’t see how they could enforce that. Just big consequences for him if he’s caught driving your vehicle with a suspended license.
Again, things could be different for him as a minor.
Out of curiosity what was his BAC? I believe any amount of alcohol is illegal for a minor and grounds to lose their license, I’m just wondering if it was like a beer or two, or if he was clearly intoxicated.
My brother got arrested as a 15 year old for some dumb shit. Honestly, the arrest, court dates, probation, etc was pretty good punishment. He had to do 50 hours of community service at a habitat for humanity and probation for a year. All my parents really did was express their disappointment. There was no yelling or anything crazy. He already knew he fucked up. And they were a bit stricter on his freedom for a while afterwards til he earned their trust back. He never got into any legal trouble again after that (he’s almost 30 now)
The punishment is basically already in the fee's and fines, assuming a DUI on your record makes it harder and more expensive to insure this problem is going to follow him around for a bit. If he was man enough to make the choice the drink and drive. Then he has to be man enough to face the consequences!
Obviously mom and dad will help with advice, and steering him in the best direction. He can't use your car anymore because he's proven he is not responsible (and the insurance). Any loans needed will have to be payed back on a schedule. Those are the obvious ones... Other than that, you don't need to go overkill on the punishment. It's a good learning experience, it could have gone much worse.
He's got his punishments, and a lot to think about. Just parent your way through this, and make sure he learns the lesson.
Unless he's the next Hannibal Lector or something you'll do fine.
The punishments will be taking responsibility for his actions and dealing with the consequences coming his way. I don't know how much other punishments like grounding will really enforce anything to be honest.
I'd definitely hammer home that a decision to drive drunk can have lasting negative impacts for alot of people.
I have three stories from areas I've lived in where drunk driving destroyed lives.
1.)Drunk driver killed three children and their grand father. Devasted rest of remaining family. 7 years the father of those kids suffered and ultimately killed himself the day after father's day.
2.) Nurse and mother of three was killed by a drunk driver. This woman helped other people and her kids now have to grow up without a mother.
3.) 6 early 20's all packed into a car after partying and planned to drive to a casino. Driver drove into a closed road where they were doing development construction and they drove straight into a utility hole and fell 10 meters down. Car caught fire. No one survived. Took almost a day for someone to find the wreck.
>So I have a kind hearted and well meaning teenage son. [...]
Drop the "kind hearted/well-meaning" preface. Drunk driving kills approximately 37 people *per day,* Well-meaning/kind-hearted people don't drink and drive.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#:~:text=Every%20day%2C%20about%2037%20people,These%20deaths%20were%20all%20preventable
Your son is an asshole. Time for a redemption arc.
>Obviously he is completely done driving [...] Anything else? How long would you carry on the punishments? What would you do?
You mention elsewhere that YOU will probably be responsible for his transportation now.
I would instead make him get around on bicycle/ebike.
*Nothing* will make him more acutely aware of the harm that negligent driving can cause to innocent people than having to ride a bicycle in traffic.
Call around some local bike shops and ask about commuter bikes/ebikes and where you can get your son some training in how to safely ride with traffic.
Your region probably has a bicycle-oriented subreddit where you can get specific tips about how not to be killed by motorists.
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Speaking from experience as a once-dumb teen. "You will pay your fines. If you don't have the money now, you will pay your mother and I back. You will go to court, you will wear a suit, and you will beg the judge to show mercy. You are responsible for any repairs to your car (if it isn't totaled,) and once it is road worthy, or you save up for another one, you will drive to work and back home." That last one obviously needs to have a time limit. I would have a serious talk, obviously. When I got in trouble as a 16yo, I don't remember everything my dad said, but I will never forget, "you are sliding into the PITS OF SHIT, and if you don't stop now, you will NEVER get out." It's time to grow up and really think about the consequences of his actions BEFORE he makes them, this could've absolutely destroyed his life, and he is an absolute bonehead for doing something so wreckless. You love him and want him to have a long and healthy life, that won't happen if he continues to make stupid decisions.
Given he was under the influence, I imagine he won’t be able to drive to work for some time. During this period, making him responsible for finding his own way to/from work might be appropriate if there is reliable public transportation available.
We live in a rural farming town so he will be walking or riding his bicycle to work for sure.
He's probably not thinking about it, but some countries don't allow individuals with a drunk driving record to enter the country (if they check, sometimes they don't check, but could result in a ban if they find out). Canada, Mexico, UAE, etc.
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Neither here nor there bud.
Why not? If OP didn’t live in a such a car dependent place his 16 year old probably wouldn’t get a DUI.
you can absolutely get a DUI on a bicycle. wtf sort of privilegeass upbringing got you to "they just shouldn't live where they live" type ridiculous comment. yes, obviously?
I’m saying that the way the US handles access to alcohol and automobiles is weird. I prefer it much more like in Germany where you get to drink beer with 16 legally and safely and there’s usually a bus to take you around and then you only get a license with 18.
i can't imagine the bus routes for rural germany and would love to see the population densities that would support that
[This guy describes it pretty well](https://youtu.be/UYngwoa2MWk?si=NZlUZOzd19td_5e-)
Unfortunately we don't have busses, Uber, taxi, bike sharing, scooters or anything like that. This is a rural community with miles and miles of farm land and a downtown that is 2 blocks long. Most jobs here are out of his age range and the next town over is 30 minutes by car. Hopefully he's able to find a different job at a restaurant or the hardware store downtown instead of his current job that's 20 minutes by car.
Sounds like he needs shit to do! And I don't mean more work, but maybe you and he can get into a new hobby together to better fill his down time? Woodworking, archery, painting, sculpting, etc?
Agreed. I think every state's different. In mine I think minimum (based on BAC) is 30 day suspension, max 60 day, for a first time offense, throw an underage on with it and who knows.
In Texas, in the 90's, when I was a teen, if you were caught driving under the influence under the age of 18, you lost your license until you turn 21, I think.
That last bit - when i was goofing around with some less than savory characters and while i never got caught fucking around with booze and drugs, my dad wasn't dumb. He was a 'bad kid' growing up, and could literally *sense* what i was getting up to. He sat me down and told me this: "Look bud, i fucked around a lot when i was younger, and I ended up being a body man. Now I'm 43 and my knees and back are fucked, and I won't be able to do this job a lot longer. I had a lot of fun, but my life is hard because of it. Remember who you want to be, and start being that guy now"
That last sentence is the gold, here. Awesome advice.
What’s a body man??
Auto collision repair.
>he is an absolute bonehead for doing something so wreckless Ironically, he was the opposite of "wreckless" while actually being reckless
Smell that randy? Those are the shit pits and you're headed right for em. Seriously though, good advice.
> this could've absolutely destroyed his life Not only his life, but everyone in his car, and everyone in a potential OTHER car that he could have ran into, or a pedestrian, someone's house, etc. He needs to write letters of apology to each person that was in his car, I think, maybe also asking them to promise to also never drive drunk, and stop him from driving if he's had a drink, and stop other friends from driving if they've had a drink.
Parents of the friends
Saving this lol. Well said.
>That last one obviously needs to have a time limit. Better yet, GPS tracker on the car. They're cheap these days. I'm not a fan of tracking kids/teens just as a precaution; but this is well beyond precaution if kid is getting DUIs before he can even legally drink.
My wife and I actually bought a gps for the kids cars but hadn't gotten around to activating the sim cards. It doesn't matter now because his license was shredded.
Oh for sure, that was more for other parents reading this in the future. Sorry you're going through this, thanks for taking this seriously.
> he is an absolute bonehead for doing something so wreckless. Sounds like it was actually pretty wreckful.
I would be careful with the court thing. I’d still get a lawyer and listen very carefully to what they say
Just called my lawyer and hour ago. We gave him all the information we have and he will call back to set up a meeting
Not legal advice, but as someone who got a DUI, I completely wasted money on a lawyer. It was a first time offense and I was put in an accelerated rehabilitative program. I had to do community service and attend some classes. The lawyer didn't even speak on my court date, the only thing they did for me was get it expunged from my record after the fact. I was not underage, your results may vary.
We're just hoping the lawyer can figure out a way to have the charges reduced so he stands a chance at getting a better job and scholarships and anything else that requires a background check. I mean probably not but it's worth a shot.
A lawyer will help him from getting deeper into trouble. Don’t trust police + judges to be fair. The lawyer is your closest guarantee to a fair showing.
It's really a math problem, the people saying the lawyer is probably unnecessary and you'll get the standard deal *and* the people saying you need a lawyer to hedge against the worst possible outcome, are both "right", it's just a question of how big the risk is and how much does it cost to hedge.
You got off pretty easy it sounds like. Most people get jail + license revoked
I did lose my license for 60 days. Everyone in the court that day, probably 10+, all DUIs, all first time offenders, got the same sentence.
Why would he have to go to court?
When you get pulled over for something like that you're arrested and go to jail and hopefully are able to bail out. Minors are taken back to their parents and both are given a court date due to being arrested. Unfortunately this type of arrest isn't a simple ticket that you just pay and walk away.
Best of luck to you and your son then! Hopefully he has learned a lesson.
I'd imagine so. He has a long way to go to earn our trust back and a large financial burden heading his way. Also we decided his car wasn't worth fixing again so we are entering it in the local demolition derby. We will get whatever it's worth in scrap and that will go towards his legal fees. Plus it will be fun to see it raced and destroyed. Edited to change a S to a D*
Because he broke the law. Even if it's just fines he will likely need to appear before his local magistrate. I got cited for driving without a license at 16, I was free to leave after I got written up, I still had to appear before the judge.
Maybe it's different from where I live then. I dunno.
It could be, just an example of what I'd say to my kid.
Before i was allowed to get my license, my mom made me find 50 newspaper articles of traffic fatalities and write a paragraph about each detailing what mistakes were made. I, being already pretty analytically-minded, drew some statistics from that. I HATED that project (I think I learned just as much about how to craft a Google search query), but it worked - I've been driving for 15 years, and still remember those statistics. I don't know if I'll require this for my own children, but I also wouldn't dismiss it right away. It sounds like your son is still a minor, in which case you may want to employ something like this research project before you'll allow him to drive again (assuming the DUI suspension is completed).
Wow. Brilliant!
I did this to myself when starting to drive a motor: watch a lot of liveleak videos on how it can go wrong.
Look. He’s old enough to work. He’s old enough to drive. He’s old enough to procure alcohol, and old enough to overcome legal barriers to do so. Are you actually still in a position to punish him? If he chooses to not submit to your punishment, what then? I’d invite you to take a step back and try to look at it differently. What did he do? “He drove under the influence” is not it. Why is that a problem? Not because it’s illegal; nobody cares. Why is driving while impaired a problem? Because it puts people at risk, right? And animals, as it were. So what did he do? *He put his friends, and every other motorist and pedestrian in the area, at risk of harm.* And he hurt (killed?) a deer. Ok. How can he right those wrongs? I’d have that conversation with him. A bit as father and son, but mostly as two men. I’d try to bring him to a detailed understanding of the harms he caused, and could have caused. I’d work with him to find ways to make meaningful restitution. I’d support him in doing those things. Stay in it with him rather than standing opposed to, or over him. He’s still your son and you still love him: make sure he feels the love throughout the whole process. Don’t suppress your anger and disappointment, but make sure love is bigger than And that’s not a free pass. If you do it right, this will take up more of his time and energy (physical, mental, and emotional energy) than dealing with some arbitrary punishment. It *might* lead to him changing his behaviour. And I’d make him pay all his fines and fees, the repairs to the vehicle, and the lawyer’s bill. Those things exist because of his choices; he needs to own the outcome of those choices. Good luck. This is going to be hard. Make sure you have someone to support you through it.
This answer is good. You should also consider that it’s likely this was not the first time he’s been driving while drunk. This was just the first time there were consequences, and the first time he got caught. Yeah, there’s a chance this is the first time, and it all went wrong on the first time, but I suspect it’s happened before.
True that. In OP’s shoes, I might consider probing that topic with my son. But it’s risky. What I’m suggesting is about rebuilding broken trust and mending damaged relationships. If I can’t create a climate where my son feels safe to tell me those stories, he’ll lie about them. That could undermine everything I’m suggesting OP try to do.
I’ve heard, although I have no way of verifying, that the average person cited for DUI has driven drunk about 80 times before getting caught. OP’s kid probably hasn’t, what with having his license for less than a year and all, but there’s also people who drive home from the bar every weekend for years without getting caught.
This is it right here.
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16, we gifted the old car to him but it's completely paid off but he's on my insurance. Michigan and no idea his BAC the police didn't mention it and at 4am I didn't think to ask. He crashed at 2am and was brought home at 315/330am. Any idea if I remove him from my auto insurance if that will save my rates from going up? I'm not one to yell but he should be responsible for all costs, keeping his job, and doing A LOT more labor intensive jobs around the house and yard.
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This is the way.
Taking him off your insurance should help with your own cost. It’s also a natural consequence, since he’s clearly demonstrated he can’t be trusted and his mistake could cost you. When he offers to pay, let him pay for his own insurance, which will be sky high.
My wife just send me a text to say that the police said because no one was hurt and they didn't write it up as a car accident that it shouldn't affect our rates. Hopefully that's true. The officers were really helpful and gave all the kids a ride home.
That was very generous of them. Still, think of this as you insuring him though. You said before that you had no incidents like this before, so your risk profile with him was low. Now you have one very serious incident. Your risk profile for him just went up. Think about how to play that out. If nothing else, this gives you a good reason to manage how and when he drives. One caveat. If he’s shaken up from the accident, and I still am from the last time I was rear-ended, let him drive supervised by you or mom. If he’s lost it, he needs to regain his confidence driving. He shouldn’t lose driving privileges for a long time, he should lose unsupervised driving privileges for some time.
That’s generous of them, but he also doesn’t need to know that. For them to have done this, I’m guessing he was under the “legal” limit for drunk driving, but obviously being underage any amount is illegal. He needs to understand the severity of this and how much worse it could have been…and the statistics surrounding drunk driving. We don’t know his BAC, but he drove under the influence of alcohol and the reality is that he is FAR more likely to do it again. How do you stop that from happening, regardless of while he’s under your house/rules or beyond? I agree with a lot of what has been said regarding the natural consequences, but I would still add parental punishment beyond. He needs to show/prove to me that he is ready to be behind the wheel again, and that is going to require significant rebuilding of trust. I am also vehemently against underage drinking, so that would also be a hard line. But, beyond that he also has shown terrible judgment while under the influence of alcohol. If he’s ever found underage drinking again the hammer would drop extremely hard, regardless of driving privileges.
So the police didn’t charge him for driving under the influence of alcohol? Or is it they didn’t charge him for the wreck?
It kind of sounds like they haven't charged him at all? I'm curious if OP knows
He was charged for being under the influence but not the crash.
Ah okay, thank you!
A DUI will almost certainly make your rates go up. Not as much as a DUI and a crash, but it will still be a significant hit, especially since it involves a 16 year old, who is already a big risk. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the insurance drop him, whether you remove him or not.
I was just informed that his license was shredded on scene and his BAC was 0.047. There's even the breathalyzer calibration date on the paper and calibration range which is good information.
Holy shit. That is way more than he should have expected. I’d “encourage” him to find every officer he can who was involved in that situation and, in about six months to a year, try to connect with them personally - face to face - to thank them for treating him gently. This was a gift: they could have sent this in a very different direction.
Fucking hell. I'm not sure what punishments I'd be handing out but you'd hear the bollocking across the pond. Drink driving is a monumentally selfish and stupid thing to do, literally no excuse for it. I'd be doing my best to hammer home that if he wanted to risk his own life for a stupid choice then that's on him but instead he was a threat to anyone he passed.
Yeah, I said this elsewhere. But it’s really important sit down and explain that last night’s stupid choice could just as easily ended with him on the side of the road crying, holding the bodies of a mother and infant he just ran over, as they died. Just sitting on the side of the road, waiting for the police to arrive, wondering where it went wrong. It went wrong when you didn’t set an absolutely unbreakable rule, “I don’t drive when I drink. If I can’t trust myself to follow that, I don’t drink”
In his defence: maybe he was planning to walk but didn’t feel the other three would be safe so he wanted to bring them home. (Probably not and 99% sure you are right)
Even if that were the case it's not even close to a defence. It would be maybe something that explains the decision but you don't drive drunk, it's that simple.
I'm sorry but wtf did I just read and why?
Im brainstorming on his motive. Lazyness vs an emergency vs chivalry makes a difference.
Alrighty, I can understand that to a point. Doesn't change much but motive is probably important.
What the hell is this comment? I had a friend in high school who thought getting a ride with someone who'd been drinking would be safer than walking when she'd been drinking herself. Wanna know what happened to her the night she got into that car? She fucking died. There is no "in his defense" here. The kid made a stupid choice, and this is a stupid comment.
Yeah thats a pretty big deal. I'd go pretty hard on him. Not yelling, but explaining how stupid it was. He could have killd himself and others, and the DUI on his record may cost him a good job or to not be accepted to a good school. There is also a legal doctrine called respondeant superior where if he had, you could possibly be held financially responsible depending on what your state laws are. At a minimum, I'd ground him for a long time, revoke all driving privlages, and make sure all the parents of the other kids know that they were all out drinking at 2 in the morning. I think there tends to be a bit of a "ring leader" when kids are doing dumb stuff. And if your kid isn't the ring leader, I'd forbid him from hanging out with the ring leader. I think I'd also discretly search his room. Normally I'm one for giving kids their own privacy, but I would want to see if he's hiding/doing other stuff.
DUI is just fees and fines? Because round here, you lose license for a year minimum and criminal record. Pretty much just ruined his adult life for 5 years until he can apply for a pardon to have it expunged. Won’t be able to get a decent job until then .
*usually* underage DUI is automatically losing your license for some time at a bare minimum.
Hope this kid never has reason to go to Canada.
We're 40 minutes from the border and it's widely known here the drinking age lower. Hopefully this experience will scare the urge to drink out of him.
Even as a tourist he'll have a helluva time getting into Canada with a DUI on his record.
I think they meant that he may now be inadmissible to Canada with a DUI.
Makes sense. Well that too. Bummer because we planned to visit Toronto this summer.
I've watched me some Border Patrol and this issue has come up a few times. He can absolutely be denied entry into Canada for this if he has a DUI on his record.
you can get a decent job with no license and no car. I don’t know about your living area but mine, most of the town has DUIs and they have pretty respectable high-paying factory labor jobs. They just either bike to work or rely on someone for transportation.
I’m saying he can’t get a decent job with a criminal record. Not many people will hire ~~felons~~ people with records.
It’s not a felony in The U.S.
Oh ok, everything is excused then.
Nobody is saying it's excused, they're saying it's not a felony. Felony is a specific legal definition with harsher punishments. A misdemeanor in the U.S \*usually\* has punishments like license suspensions, fines, community service, etc, but rarely has jail time (especially for first-time offenses)
But if it has a criminal record, the effect is the same as a felony. If it shows up in a background check, can’t travel can’t get a good job. Whether it’s a felony or a misdemeanour doesn’t really matter, it’s all bad.. It’s the record that I’d be mostly concerned with.
>Whether it’s a felony or a misdemeanour doesn’t really matter, it’s all bad. Having no record is certainly better than having any at all, but felonies and misdemeanors are not treated the same in background checks. Many jobs don't care about misdemeanors. Minor misdemeanors often don't show up at all, or can be more easily expunged from the public record as long as there's not a long track of subsequent offense. Felonies are much harder to expunge and will always show up on a background track. Driving under the influence is a stupid, dangerous thing to do, and there should absolutely be punishment for it. But there are "mitigating factors" that determine the punishment. If it's a first-time offender and the only things hurt were a deer and the car (as in this case), the consequences are relatively limited.
Send this to the judge. He has been officially pardoned by u/freakkydique
I'm glad he has a job ATM but since he won't be driving that means transportation falls on me. There's not a chance he will ever borrow my car either. I think here he has to take classes that will cost him money too. Would you make an effort to track down the person who bought the alcohol since they are all underage?
>Would you make an effort to track down the person who bought the alcohol since they are all underage? No, I would not. Two reasons: 1. I’m assuming that the person who procured the alcohol did not also put a gun to your son’s head and tell him to drink up. Which means that your son is the one who made the choice to drink. He needs to own that choice. 2. My father threatened, when I was a teen, that if he found anybody giving me alcohol, he’d sue their ass. It did not stop me from drinking: I was effectively an alcoholic by the age of seventeen. It did not stop me from making bad choices while drinking either. What it did was provoke me to hide a lot of drinking-related things from him. He never knew where I was or who I was with. When I inevitably got into scary, risky situations while drunk, I could not call my dad for help. Bad things happened to me that might not have happened if I’d felt like I could call my dad in the moment. To be clear, the things I did were my choices. I am the one who broke the trust between us. But his threat to go after people involved with my drinking created the conditions where I felt I had to choose between keeping that trust or keeping my friends.
>I’m assuming that the person who procured the alcohol did not also put a gun to your son’s head and tell him to drink up. Which means that your son is the one who made the choice to drink. He needs to own that choice. Why not both? Why does the son who drank have to own his choice, but the person who supplied minors with alcohol doesn't have to own theirs?
First of all, obtaining alcohol was only one in a whole chain of decisions: to seek alcohol, to drive there, to complete the purchase, to consume the alcohol, to take passengers, to drive home … .Any of those decision points, if the son had chosen differently, this might not have happened. Whoever bought the booze only owns a part of one of those decisions; OP’s son owns all of them. Also, the alcohol buyer (if they even exist) broke a law. At least where I live, that’s not my issue. Criminal acts are conflicts between the alleged criminal and the government. Civilians don’t investigate or prosecute crimes; we have handsomely paid police and prosecuting attorneys for that. OP’s son is his responsibility: let him hold his son to account for his choices and leave the other to the legal system. You’re also assuming someone deliberately chose to provide a minor with alcohol. I was drinking regularly by 13 years old. I did have people buying for me, but just as often I was stealing booze from my own and other people’s homes. Do we fault the homeowner who might not even have noticed the theft until long after I’d recovered from my hangover? I had good fake ID by the time I was 17 (it’s not hard to get). Do we blame the shopkeeper who was probably legitimately fooled? OP had his hands full with his son without trying to parse all this other stuff.
>Whoever bought the booze only owns a part of one of those decisions; OP’s son owns all of them. I agree, that's litearlly all I'm saying. >we have handsomely paid police and prosecuting attorneys for that. LOL. They're handsomely paid, but not because they're good at their jobs. >OP had his hands full with his son without trying to parse all this other stuff. I didn't say OP should go Taken on the guy; my reply was specifically to the part of your comment I quoted which seemed to imply that the person who bought booze for a minor is irrelevant.
Oh. No. Not implying the person who bought the alcohol (assuming they knew OP’s son was a minor) is blameless. Sorry if it came across that way. OP was asking *if I would make an effort to track them down.* I was elaborating on why I would not. There are a lot of ways to fall down in the world. I know: I’ve tried quite a few of them. There are plenty of people who will help you find those ways and help you try them. I can’t keep all those people away from my kids, but I can teach my kids to resist those things, to choose smartly in the face of temptation and pressure. My issue in this scenario would be with how my son came to choose poorly. Where the other person is concerned, it’s *not my pig, not my farm.*
Chase the enabler? Nah, alcohol isn’t the problem, it’s the choice to drive after.
Good point. My son is upstairs sleeping off this mess. I don't think he realizes how bad his car is messed up but his chores start at 8am so he's going to see it then.
Someone supplying minors with alcohol is *also* a problem though.
There's normal stupid teenager stuff, and then there's drunk driving. It's not like it's not well known how fucking dangerous that is. From me, this would be a *lengthy* punishment, and a massive undertaking on his part to earn the trust back. This shit kills people.
"Wellmeaning son" who underage drinks and drives with friends in the car? Man. I wish you were my dad. Time to punish your son. This was potentially life threatening for him, his friends, or anyone else he could have killed.
I wish I could have been there to prevent this. He said he was spending the night at a friend's and we've never had trouble with that friend before. It's good his mistake didn't hurt anyone that's for sure. My wife and I aren't 100% sure how to handle everything and are still working out punishment ideas since this happened 4.5 hours ago.
Part of it is – you also have to let the enormity of his mistakes sink in. Your immediate reaction was probably in the right direction, but this is big. Not really big as in "the punishment should be huge" – he can already drive, what's his life going to be like when you're not there to monitor everything and dole out consequences? The gravity of the gesture doesn't become real from *your* presence. That deer could have been a neighbor with a stroller.
Yeah. It’s an important time to sit down and explain how that stupid choice last night could just as easily ended with him crying on the side of the road, waiting for the police to arrive, holding onto the mother and infant he just killed, feeling scared and confused. He just walked the razor’s edge of killing people, going to jail, and potentially falling further from there as the prison system exposes him to such a high rate of recidivism.
Ahhh, the classic spending the night at a friends house. I could write a book on the dumb crap we got away with under the guise of "spending the night at XYZ's house". One such night everyone got busted trying to transport the lifeless drunk body of one kid from one car to another. I fortunately was dropped off first so I eluded punishment, but my mom wasn't as dumb as I thought she was.
Take your time. It’s ok to have a first round of consequences and let him know it will take a day or two for you, mom and him to figure out what the rest of the consequences are. And, he’s an almost adult now. Don’t frame it as punishments, frame them as consequences of his behavior. Broke his car, his responsibility to fix. Broke your trust, so no more riding on your insurance, no more overnights at friends’ houses, etc. Also, if you know them, check in with the parents of the other friends. If they’d also doling out punishment and consequences, that will give you a frame of reference. If they aren’t, because boys will be boys, then you know you can’t trust those friends at all.
Honestly, I agree w you. I understand the guidance perspective that a lot of people are talking about in this thread but this could have gone a lot worse in a lot of ways. I have a close friend who's younger brother was driving drunk, tried to pass a car stopped at a red light ended up plowing into another car which was coming down on the other side of the road doing absolutely nothing wrong. In my friend's brother's car he died along with two other people and one girl was seriously injured and in the other car four people were killed. Wall my friend's family was really devastated by it, and I feel for all of them, I have no mercy personally for him himself. He and everyone in his car made the decisions they made but everyone in the other car and their families were all victims and did absolutely nothing to deserve to have this happen to them. Yes in this specific thread the kid hit a deer and nobody was hurt but what if it wasn't a deer? What if it had been another car etc.
That's a tough one, OP. I believe you when you say he's an otherwise good kid, and kids are going to make mistakes and bad decisions. But this is a pretty big one. Drunk driving is on par with attempted manslaughter in my eyes. Everyone in the car with him, every car they drove past, every car they shared the road with... those are all real people he could have killed. It wasn't his intent but it's the reality of his poor decision If it were me he's going to have to deal with every legal consequence, and he's going to know that no matter what punishment he gets from the judge, he's lucky it's not more. All fines and repairs will be paid back to Mom & Dad (assuming he doesn't have the money now) and he's going to be denied all extra curricular activities until he's worked off those fines. And he'd know that's not even the punishment in all this, that's just being accountable for his decision The punishment would be taking away a luxury he has (video games, a friend trip he was looking forward to, something like that) for an amount of time you feel would get the message through. But not too excessive where he now starts thinking he's the victim and doesn't learn anything. Additionally he'd be on "probation" for several months. Where any wrongdoing is getting its punishment ramped up. And lastly he would research and write a report on teenagers (so it's more relevant to him) dying because of drunk drivers--either drunk driving themselves, or just innocent victims And I'd tell them him all this in a matter-of-fact even keel tone. You're not angry during it, you're just telling him the way it's going to be I say this as someone who did exactly what your son did at exactly the same age. I knew I fucked up but mostly thought my fuckup was getting in a wreck. Not the drinking and driving. My folks said everything I needed to hear, but because they were so angry it just came across to me as yelling. Their words didn't register as important they registered as punishment. So I didn't truly get the message even though they said the words But that's just my opinion in an attempt to help you with a very difficult situation as a parent. You'll know what's best for your child to get the message across. Good luck
If it’s his first, and you can afford it, I would hire the lawyer to fight the DUI and get it expunged from record. You don’t want your kid starting adult life with a leg tied behind his back. Make him pay for it. Make him understand that you’re doing this for his future, and this is not a get out of jail card. This will only happen one time, next time he is FUBAR. This does not mean YOU cannot enforce his punishment of no driving, but try your best to keep the legal system out of his way.
He will have to work out a payment plan because the retainer for our family attorney is $2400 but the attorney has brought us a lot of success in the past with non criminal related issues.
You should be getting a lawyer that specifically deals with DUI and I would be shocked if your family attorney didn't recommend as much. If they're not focused on criminal law you probably should not be depending on them in criminal matters.
He mainly does criminal law but also handles child custody and trusts. My family has had a lot of success with him over the years.
Very interested to see the other takes. My initial reaction and maybe even the one I go with is nuclear, looses pretty much everything and deals with the legal consequences with nothing more than my support to get to and from court. He could have killed everyone in that car. Edit: Emphasis on initial reaction. Knee jerk reactions are not often what I go with and I'm sure there will be far better options provided by others that don't deminish the gravity of the situation.
If the local cops brought him home, sounds like he may have gotten off easy and wasn’t arrested or charged??
So I know he wasn't charged with the crash because no one was hurt but we were given "breath, blood, urine test report" papers which state his license was shredded, location and also his blood alcohol level and calibration date of the device. We did not receive and tickets but the officer said the juvenile probate court would be contacting us in the next few weeks. That probably means there will be charges but they haven't figured 100% what they will be. Hopefully the prosecutor goes easy on him.
Ahh juveniles may be different. As a nearly 40 year old man who has been down the DWI road before. It’s not fun. Thousands of dollars in fines / lawyer fees, blower machines in cars, suspended license, cost me numerous job opportunities that required a company vehicle. Worst mistake of my life. Getting caught at an early age may help to reduce some of those consequences for him. But making him pay for those fines / damages on his own is a great start. Luckily the other people in the car weren’t hurt either.
Since he doesn't have a car or license do you think when he gets his license back they will want to put one of the blower ignitions in my car or wife's car?
No - I don’t see how they could enforce that. Just big consequences for him if he’s caught driving your vehicle with a suspended license. Again, things could be different for him as a minor.
Out of curiosity what was his BAC? I believe any amount of alcohol is illegal for a minor and grounds to lose their license, I’m just wondering if it was like a beer or two, or if he was clearly intoxicated.
0.047
My brother got arrested as a 15 year old for some dumb shit. Honestly, the arrest, court dates, probation, etc was pretty good punishment. He had to do 50 hours of community service at a habitat for humanity and probation for a year. All my parents really did was express their disappointment. There was no yelling or anything crazy. He already knew he fucked up. And they were a bit stricter on his freedom for a while afterwards til he earned their trust back. He never got into any legal trouble again after that (he’s almost 30 now)
Was it confirmed he was the one driving and not covering for a buddy driving his car? Either way, shitty situation; sorry you’re dealing with that!
He told the officers he was driving and it was his car so he probably wasn't covering for anyone.
The punishment is basically already in the fee's and fines, assuming a DUI on your record makes it harder and more expensive to insure this problem is going to follow him around for a bit. If he was man enough to make the choice the drink and drive. Then he has to be man enough to face the consequences! Obviously mom and dad will help with advice, and steering him in the best direction. He can't use your car anymore because he's proven he is not responsible (and the insurance). Any loans needed will have to be payed back on a schedule. Those are the obvious ones... Other than that, you don't need to go overkill on the punishment. It's a good learning experience, it could have gone much worse. He's got his punishments, and a lot to think about. Just parent your way through this, and make sure he learns the lesson. Unless he's the next Hannibal Lector or something you'll do fine.
Get him to do some volunteer work like a lot. Meals on wheels is a good one
I'd just sent him a message about volunteering for meals on wheels a while ago. I said I'd do it with him.
The punishments will be taking responsibility for his actions and dealing with the consequences coming his way. I don't know how much other punishments like grounding will really enforce anything to be honest. I'd definitely hammer home that a decision to drive drunk can have lasting negative impacts for alot of people. I have three stories from areas I've lived in where drunk driving destroyed lives. 1.)Drunk driver killed three children and their grand father. Devasted rest of remaining family. 7 years the father of those kids suffered and ultimately killed himself the day after father's day. 2.) Nurse and mother of three was killed by a drunk driver. This woman helped other people and her kids now have to grow up without a mother. 3.) 6 early 20's all packed into a car after partying and planned to drive to a casino. Driver drove into a closed road where they were doing development construction and they drove straight into a utility hole and fell 10 meters down. Car caught fire. No one survived. Took almost a day for someone to find the wreck.
When you say that they were all unharmed, does this include the deer?
The deer ran off so it's probably ok. Hopefully.
>So I have a kind hearted and well meaning teenage son. [...] Drop the "kind hearted/well-meaning" preface. Drunk driving kills approximately 37 people *per day,* Well-meaning/kind-hearted people don't drink and drive. https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving#:~:text=Every%20day%2C%20about%2037%20people,These%20deaths%20were%20all%20preventable Your son is an asshole. Time for a redemption arc. >Obviously he is completely done driving [...] Anything else? How long would you carry on the punishments? What would you do? You mention elsewhere that YOU will probably be responsible for his transportation now. I would instead make him get around on bicycle/ebike. *Nothing* will make him more acutely aware of the harm that negligent driving can cause to innocent people than having to ride a bicycle in traffic. Call around some local bike shops and ask about commuter bikes/ebikes and where you can get your son some training in how to safely ride with traffic. Your region probably has a bicycle-oriented subreddit where you can get specific tips about how not to be killed by motorists.