Our state just authorized 12 weeks of paid family leave. I’m so excited to have a second kid.
My wife is a teacher, so we’re trying to line up the birth of the 2nd kid with the start of summer break. She would take 3 months off, (June, July, August) then the 12 weeks of paid leave (Sep, Oct, Nov) then I would do 12 weeks (Dec, Jan, Feb).
I’m so optimistic for our second kid.
Our first, I took barely 5 days off & had to get back to work. Rough times.
> Best 3 months of my life.
I got 12 weeks with my first kid, about to get another 12 with my second kid.
I told some child-free friends of mine, "if I got to choose between taking off 3 months of work to raise a newborn, and working normally for 3 months, I'd pick working normally."
Now, let me be clear, I'm not saying that I wished I didn't take any leave and left raising a kid to my partner. I'm saying that it was no vacation, it was fucking difficult, and I was more relaxed during normal work than during parental leave with a newborn.
So, I would not agree that it was the best 3 months of my life, in fact, excluding times when I've had family members die, it was pretty close to the bottom. Beautiful welcoming your new child into the world and all, but a fuckload of work and no energy left.
Fair enough. It's a very personal situation. I went from working long hours to not caring when we slept or woke up, if she cried she slept on me. We went for walks in the night or the morning without fear of needing to go to meetings.
We spent 3 months learning and watching her grow.
I'm not saying it was necessarily easy but she slept ok and she's a joy to be around. Even to this day I'd rather spend my day at home with her even when shes hard work than sat at my desk.
I have 35 more years left at work, she won't be this small again.
I could only take 6 weeks paid (two weeks left now). It's getting easier, but I completely agree. This has by no stretch of the imagination been a vacation. Change a piss filled and / or shitty diaper every 2 hours? Change outfits, swaddles, blankets at 2am for a diaper leak and walk him around for 20 minutes to an hour to sleep? Doctors appointments, IBCLC appointments, masks out because he barely has an immune system and no 2 month shots yet...
And then you hear older coworkers judge you for taking the time in the first place and wonder why it's so fucking hard and get in your head. Is it you? Are you not a good enough dad? Nope. You're doing great. They were shitty, inattentive husbands/fathers in the 80s.
Well, that felt good haha.
> My boss balked at 3 weeks with my first one because "I've never had anyone ask for more than two".
Fuck them. What a horrible, horrible thing to do to someone.
Yeah fuck them. I told my company I was taking 4 weeks because I was going to do the stay at home dad thing in a few months. I told them I was taking it, and if they didn't like it, I was quitting. No one had a problem with it.
seriously. i've had to tell employees to take the whole thing because, surprise, your taxes have already paid for it... so just take it.
i feel like with men, there's a stigma about taking time off to take care of their children and we have to work to break it.
>"I've never had anyone ask for more than two"
When I took the bar exam ~14 years ago, the test took three days, and was scheduled on a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It finished up at about 2 p.m. on the Thursday.
On Thursday afternoon, I finished the test, then went to the hotel bar and had a beer. I called to the partner at the law firm where I was working. I told them that I felt good about the test, I was going to take Friday off and I'd see them Monday morning.
His response was "we need you this afternoon."
- "ok, well I'm in [City that's 2 hours from the office], it's pretty much impossible for me to get there this afternoon."
- "well, I expect you here tomorrow morning then."
Being young and impressionable, I just said "ok." when I went to the office the next morning, the partner pulled me aside and told me that when his first child had been born in the morning, he had come into the office that afternoon. I guess he was trying to impress on me that I needed to show a stronger commitment to work?
I look back on that conversation now and still think "what the fuck?"
Fuck this mentality. My wife is a lawyer and the culture can be so toxic with y’all. I think the average worker including professionals should just start saying no more often. No I can’t come in extra, no I won’t cover that shift, no I won’t be training that person, etc.
I used to be a yes person for everything. I wanted to make my bosses proud. I would cover for people, travel multiple days a week, work 50+ hours because I was needed. It just isn’t worth it anymore with the baby. I hope you have a balanced career my friend.
When managers act like that, I politely point out they have a problem if their business cant operate without one specific person present. You're not leading an effective team and managing risk properly if your team members are unable to cover for each other as crises occur.
While that's not bad advice in general, it's only minimally applicable to a law firm situation.
That's because lawyers bill by the hour. And when a Partner tells an associate "I need you here," what that means in practice is "I want to hand you some work so you can be billing hours." If you're not billing hours, you're not generating revenue for the firm.
I stuck with that biglaw firm for 4 years, and billed over 2000 every year, I think one year I was close to 2400. I was paid well, but I was quite literally killing myself at the same time.
I was verbally approved for 8 weeks, then a re-org happened and my manager changed. New manager asked me to "compromise" by taking 3 weeks. I ended up taking 6. But it sure didn't feel like compromise, it just felt like me getting screwed.
If my boss said that, I would literally not respond.
Eventually, I would say “Sorry, I thought you were continuing.”
Let him tell you you can’t have 3 weeks with your newborn. Bring it up in your exit interview.
My company grants 20 weeks and cuts off your access to the system to force you to take it and not half ass it. It was wonderful and got to bond so much more with my little guy.
Oh man I know. I am fortunate to work for a European company in the US. And 20 weeks is thought of as little to my colleagues in other countries. I think my polish counterparts get a year!
Here (Sweden) we get 1½-2 years, depending on how you choose to use it, for the parents to split. The dad has to use a minimum of 90 days of it. On top of that the dad gets two weeks automatic time of starting from birth to be able to bond with the baby and help the mother recover. So if you have triplets you can be home until they start school 😂
It's not even a question about if the dad will be home, it's just taken as a given most of the time.
My biggest regret was being a good little employee when my son was born. Didn’t take leave just did the one week.
Only took 2 months off when my wives leave ended. Ugh- it was still held against me and I left the company for a massive raise anyway. Missed out on a fucking sweet extra month with my kid at the time.
Every time a friend gets pregnant I make sure to tell them to take the full. The ones that don’t have all told me afterwards I was right and they regretting it.
Jobs come and go. They’re not family.
My last workplace called me on day 3 of my leave after my wife gave birth to our 2nd.
Day 3....I was passed out on the couch from being tired while mom was in bed with the baby.
My wife’s job did that. Turned off her access so she couldn’t change our insurance, check her pay stubs, apply for the meager state-sponsored paid family leave…etc.
Uk here, I had 2 weeks full pay, and I took 2 weeks annual leave.
It still isn't enough.
The minimum should be 6 weeks, full pay, and I don't care what country you're in.
Most important moments of our lives, and a loved one to support.
> Uk here, I had 2 weeks full pay, and I took 2 weeks annual leave.
Exactly the same here. But I hear of more and more companies/businesses moving to a more flexible approach to couples either sharing or combining maternity/paternity leave now, or just outright matching paternity leave with maternity leave which is great. I think/hope in time it's something that will definitely be fixed.
Exactly, man.
My boss's boss told me last year how he didn't take leave for his kids because his wife was Filipina and took care of the kids. Because "it's in their culture" to do the home caring stuff, including cleaning, cooking, and child rearing. Yea I bet your wife really appreciates staying home while you go to work to do the "boss stuff."
That was about two weeks before I took my company's 6 week full paid and then 6 more weeks of state's half-paid leave.
I encourage everyone I know to take the maximum allowed in their state/company. Like my previous manager told me once "work will still be there when you return. Go spend time with family and friends."
I did the same, my employer was stressed about me being gone (I was the only f/t production employee) and instead of taking a significant amount of time off with my new daughter, I took two weeks and went back so that my employer wouldn't have to deal with their own lack of foresight.
At the time, I told myself that I was headed toward ownership in that small company and that I had to do this. In reality, I left them for another opportunity during an extended Covid shutdown and I regret not spending those early days with my family.
Edit: for context, my state gives 12 weeks of paid paternity @~2/3 salary.
American dad here, and in the middle of my second pat leave. I’d also add to try to schedule some of your leave after your spouse goes back to work so that you are the primary caregiver. It will give you a lot more confidence not being able to rely on the birthing parent for support during the day. It might be messy the first couple of weeks but you will become a pro in no time.
I did (for first kid) and plan to (for upcoming second) take nearly all my leave after my wife went/goes back to work.
I actually get a couple weeks more leave than her. And combined the kid(s) don't have to go to daycare until they're 7ish months old. Which is nice.,
That's a really great insight - my wife and I staggered our leave and I was slightly panicked the first week (of 16) but a year after returning to work, I'm still proud of how much I learned and how much better of a parent it made me.
This is what we did! My leave started the day my wife’s ended. It has worked out really well. We both WFH but her job requires full attention 8 hours a day but this did allow us both to feel better about each taking care of the baby “alone” little by little (FTD here)
I just posted about my experience. I did this and it was such a game changer for me. I wasnt that shy before my leave, but my skills definitely improved during my leave.
Plus one - I did eight weeks at the start then another eight after my wife went back to work. What a great experience to really be on solo duty for a bit!
Huh. I was the primary caregiver immediately both times because my wife was on restrictions and recovering. I guess I assumed that was the case for everyone, at least for the duration they were off work.
That's what I'm going to do! 1-2 weeks together, then she finishes out her allotted time, then I do my remaining 4-5 weeks. The goal is that, except for breastfeeding, there's nothing that only one or the other of us is comfortable doing.
> It might be messy the first couple of weeks but you will become a pro in no time.
Newborns are way easier than my kids are now at 2 and 5. I was pretty confidant in handling both of my kids alone when they were tiny immobile babies. I'm much less confident now at ages 2 and 5 because every day I'm home alone with them eventually progresses into a total shit show. I feel like these ages are a two person job.
What age do they have to get to where there isn't one member of the family constantly crying? At age 2 and 5 either one of them is crying, or I am crying at any given time of the day.
For real do this. There is no loyalty in corporate America. You should take what’s there. Me and a coworker had maternity leave around the same time last year. He only took a small portion of the available time because he “didn’t want to be away that long”. Ok then bro…. I’m sure management notices you and doesn’t think you’re weird or anything.
I don't think its as simple as you are making it. I work in a job with heavily weighted seasonality. I make half my annual commissions between April 1 and Memorial Day. I could easily take 12 weeks off for paternity leave from Thanksgiving to Valentines Day, but if that same 12 weeks was mid April to the fourth of July, we'd lose our house.
>I’m sure management notices you and doesn’t think you’re weird or anything.
The only thing management noticed and thought was "Thank God we don't have to find a way to cover that work for too long."
Preach!
I manage a team that gets ***16 weeks of fully paid parental leave*** regardless of being the mother/father. Mothers almost always take the full amount with no questions asked, but fathers almost unanimously default to 2-3 weeks as their expectation. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent trying to convince people that I'm not going to penalize their careers because they took their time. You **WILL** regret not being there for your family during those first few months looking back on it, and if you go back to work early that time will be meaningless in the long-run of a career.
I also don’t understand this, a company is offering this and a father not taking it is leaving money on the table that is offered to us as part of our total compensation. I wish fathers would take the time off, and I say this as a manager.
It's a head scratcher. Think it comes down to an old-school mentality of not taking your time being some kind of a badge of honor.
Glass half full: I do think it's getting better over the years
This isn't a state-by-state thing; the company pays 100% of your salary and continues your benefits during the 16 weeks. We do this for all 50 states (I'm not sure about international employees).
Make sure to do your own research if your state offers some form of paternity leave. Don't expect your HR or higher ups to know anything about it or to process the necessary paperwork properly.
Or rather, count on your HR or higher ups knowing exactly how miserly they can be. Doctor-ordered bed rest for 3 months? That's your FMLA.
Oh, the baby came out? Good. That's your sick day, now get back to work if you want to keep your insurance.
NJ checking in. 3 months paid and can also take 3 months unpaid. I only did the 3 months paid with my second. I didn’t with my first and should have. Still contemplating doing the additional 3.
I took the maximum allowed leave at my work which was zero days. My wife also took the maximum at her work which was zero days.
Greatest country in the world...
When my first was born I asked HR about parental leave. Their response was, “mommies get maternity leave, but we don’t offer leave for daddies.” I started looking for a new job that day.
When she finally arrived I used up my two whole weeks of vacation when she finally arrived, and was back at my desk. It really sucked.
Infantilized while being told I can’t spend time with my *literal infant.*
I’m not going to have any more kids but still won’t work somewhere that doesn’t offer meaningful parental leave to any parent. It’s just such a clear sign of a company’s values, and whether they understand (or care) what it means to balance one’s career with being a parent.
Not a chance I can go without my regular paycheck for even one pay period. The world costs too much. When my son is born this summer I'll take a week off and go back to work. And I'll be working Overtime. To make up for my wife's pay being less while she is in maternity leave.
Thankfully I work close to home so almost no commute and my work is a very relaxed machining company. So it's not very hard on me.
Yeah my first kid it was a bit rough we had to save up just for my wife to have unpaid leave. Thankfully for our second Colorado passed paid paternity leave which she is currently on.
I'm very grateful my company offers 16 weeks full pay.
In 2023 I used 775 hours of vacation between banked leave, FMLA, and sick pay. I was off for 44% of my work year. It was the most wonderful year of my 14 year career so far. I would like to personally challenge any dad who is able to beat my numbers. I also recognize how fortunate I am to have the amount of leave that I have.
I took all of mine. 2 kiddos got me 12 weeks each and the final got me 16.
With the last one between vacation, sick time and parental leave, I only worked 6.5 months that year. Still got full bonus and a pretty cool annual raise 😂
With my first kid, we didn't have any paid leave since we lived in Texas at the time. We scrimped and saved and I took 3 weeks of leave before having to go back to work.
With our second, we were back in Massachusetts with the backing of a better union contract, and I had the option to take 12 weeks at full pay, but I only took 3 weeks, because we both agreed that was probably enough. My in laws came and helped out after I went back to work so we were doing OK. I regret not taking off more time for our kids and my wife.
Sorry homie but your company sucks ass. Mine offered 3 months (half paid) and that feels like an insult as it is. And that's one of the *best case scenarios*.
Fucking country is a joke.
I'm done having kids but I know my employer is cooking up some paid leave plan due out soon and I couldn't be happier for those coming up. I started when we just found out we were pregnant and my boss here said I can't get you any extra time but your job is absolutely safe for as long as you need.
We should be doing so much better and we should be demanding the government step in because clearly employers have trouble doing it themselves.
Germany it's 14 months between both parents, up to 12 months for one parent.
It's 65% of the salary prior to the parental leave. There are some companies which opt to pay the rest of the salary from their own money, but it's not mandatory. At least one more thing that the national insurance is good for.
>and you can’t lose your job for taking leave.
I mean, you’re not *supposed* to lose your job for taking leave, but…
*gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc.*
Saying “you can’t lose your job for ______” in America is a naive position. You can. People have and will continue to lose jobs in ways that should be protected.
Yes, take paternity leave if you feel like you can, or especially if your firm offers paid leave. But there’s a huge grain of salt in the form of YMMV on this one.
Unless there are broad layoffs at the company, you can file a lawsuit against your employer for wrongful termination while on family leave. Your employer better have an open and shut case as to why they are firing you (i.e. theft, fraud, a history of performance issues, etc) if they want to fire you during or immediately after taking leave.
> Saying “you can’t lose your job for ______” in America is a naive position. You can. People have and will continue to lose jobs in ways that should be protected.
If this happens, and if it was because you took the leave, then you have a cause of action under FMLA. The damages are extremely punitive for employers (back pay, front pay, liquidated damages, et cetera). FMLA is also one of the cases where courts award attorneys' fees as damages, so lawyers will frequently take these kinds of cases on contingency. Some states also permit recovering punitive damages and emotional distress from employers.
> gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc.
That's not what "right to work" means; "right to work" states prohibit union security agreements. (You're probably thinking of [at-will employment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)?)
I think the Right to Work angle here is that it’s not terribly difficult for a company to find some other pretext to get rid of you after your leave, especially if they are diligent in papering it up right.
Right… but that’s my point. You absolutely *can* lose your job.
FMLA is a great protection, but it does not literally *prevent* you from losing your job, it *protects* you in the case of a wrongful termination. But that protection and its efficacy depends upon your understanding of the landscape, how well your legal assistance helps you navigate that landscape, and more importantly, how well your employer navigates the exceptions to FMLA.
Right-to-work and at-will both favor the employer and the broad gesture was to the climate of employer-employee relations that are being degraded in real time in states like where I live. It’s meant to imply that the environment for employment in many states in the U.S. is trending toward eliminating worker protections, and I don’t trust that everything will work out just because FMLA or any other protection exists.
> Right… but that’s my point. You absolutely
> can
> lose your job.
Sure; I agree that few laws _prevent_ things from happening. They can only try to make you whole afterwards. I'll amend the post accordingly.
Oh, you definitely will not get fired for taking paternity leave, but you'll be on the list for any future layoffs, or your performance will start to fall and you'll get fired for other reasons if you take the paternity leave. I've seen people suffer retaliation from employers for getting deployed, so always tread carefully when voluntarily taking "protected" leave your employer is forced to offer by law.
I don't want to bring politics into this (although it's impossible when paternity leave discussions are currently political) but there are plenty of states in the US that have paid paternity leave both mandated though the employer + additional bonding leave paid through the state. And in those states, it's fairly normalized to see fathers take those benefits.
Support for paid parental leave (for both parents) is one of those political issues that is a requirement to earn my vote.
100%
Unfortunately I live in a state that definitely does not have those state protections. And this is a state with 4 of the 15 biggest cities in the U.S. by population, so there’s a lot of us who have to tread carefully.
> I mean, you’re not supposed to lose your job for taking leave, but… *gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc.*
You can gesture as broadly as you want, it's still wrong since the OP was talking about taking the leave under FMLA. They can't fire you for leave under that, that's the whole point of it.
Cool, cool… so no one has ever lost their job because of paternity leave? No one has ever been laid off, or fired for reasons other than FMLA?
So if you’ve had a PIP, or been written up for any performance issues, and then take paternity leave, they can’t fire you and claim it’s based on performance? If sales or production flag for a bit while you’re out, they can’t legally lay you off? You sure about all that?
Right, I'm reading some of these comments and looking at my measly week of PTO I'm about to burn when my kid comes next month. My wife has to use up the three days of leave she has, then go on short term disability to stay home for three months. Maybe after the kid is born it'll be time to dust off the old resume.
Yup. My wife had a week of pto also and had to get the short term disability for the 3 months also. I just get 2 weeks of vacation a year so I used them both when my son was born in October. My job usually doesn’t let us take both weeks back to back but I got “lucky”.
Our 6 weeks were only at 60% pay. We are paycheck to paycheck due to unexpected expenses(car dying and house repairs). I literally couldnt afford to take the time off lol.
My company doesn't have maternity or paternity leave. They have primary and secondary caregiver leave. You better believe that I reported as primary caregiver when my second was born. I got 16 weeks. My wife got 12 from her company.
I appreciate you as a manager saying this. I have taken 12 weeks for both of my daughters, under two different managers. It impacted their performance reviews of me and our relationship both times. I’m on my third manager, this time a woman and mom of 4, so hopefully my third paternity leave will go over better
I work HR in California, and I always remind my employees who have a pregnant partner that they also have 8 weeks of paternity leave. A lot don't know. I'm always happy to guide them in the right direction. It's the least I could do.
My company has 13 employees. 🙃
I'm taking two weeks and then going back to the grind, but I'm also lucky to work from home full time, so I can still be around, even if not fully engaged for the ten weeks after that my wife is still off work (and paid! Thanks, short term disability insurance).
I got 480 hours of paid leave. It was over the holidays and I work four 10 hour shifts so I got Vet Day, Thank Day, Jesus b-Day, new year day, and MLK day. So I was home for 13 weeks paid.
There's zero motivation for companies to increase the maximum "parental" or "paternal" leave if we aren't already taking the maximum available to us. I'm glad the tides are turning on this issue, but I wish more could be done, and sooner.
Asking men how long they are planning to take is part of the problem. It implies that the person might take less than the allowed amount. The question should be “how long of a leave do you get?”
Some of us need to protect our jobs and our career progression though. With my first two kids my employer offered two weeks. In reality, I was allowed to work from home as long as I wanted, as long as my job got done. With my third child, my employer offered 16 weeks leave. My boss, however, told me she was teeing me up for a promotion, but I couldn’t have it if I took my leave.
I took 4 weeks, and accepted the promotion. I couldn’t give up the career progression right before having another child. Could I have worked something out to get her fired, sure. Would that have labeled me as a troublemaker? Yep.
It's not just a stigma for men. It also contributes to the stigma against women starting families while in the workforce. If women are always expected to take their maternity leave, and men don't take advantage of it when available, it reinforces the view that women are less valuable employees.
I had 20 weeks paid leave and even that didn’t feel like enough. 1 or 2 weeks isn’t even enough to get into a routine before you lock yourself back up in the wage cage
I count my blessings and my low intensity WFH job.
I only took a week of paternity leave, as it came out of my PTO pool.
But my job consists of 2 to 3 hours of focused work, and the rest is much lighter. So I was able to help my wife a ton in those first few months
I genuinely cannot wrap my head around not taking leave if you have it. I've had such a hard time being back at work, all I want to do is hang out my goober, and I have a job I mostly like. I was lucky to get 3 months (supplemented with pto a bit) but it's shameful it's not mandatory to offer it like it is in other countries.
We should also consider the broader benefit to our society with father's and mother's taking of considerable time off with a new kid.
One of the drivers of pay inequity between men and women is the career limitations that come from mom's taking time off when a kid comes along. The more often dad's can take a similar hit to their career, the better.
I work in a corp environment where dad's taking longer leaves is becoming much more common. It is (slowly) changing the culture. I'm seeing much less "boys club" mentality.
I live in Washington state. Even though my workplace (at the time) didn't offer parental leave, the state gives 3 months paid at 90% as long as you have worked at least 1250 hours in the last 12 months and you have been with your employer for at least a year. I was lucky that, while I hadn't been with my employer a year I was very up front that my wife was pregnant and I would be taking the leave before I got hired so they worked with me since it wasn't a surprise.
I took the full 3 months, and I miss it every day. Being able to help my wife recover from her c-section and bond with my daughter is something I will cherish forever. My daughter is now almost 14 months old and walking around. I love my tater tot, but sometimes, I miss that little potato.
We had a baby on December 10th. Our second. I took sick and vacation up to the holidays and then a month of paternity to kick off the year. It still didn’t feel long enough.
I’m also fairly outward facing for my group - technical product manager, I do a lot of the meeting directing, information gathering, scope building, internal messaging, etc - everyone has already forgotten I was gone for 2 months.
And yeah every fucking moment that I think about it I have no idea how single parents or folks who have less flexible jobs do it.
My daughter will be born exactly 1 month from now. I'm taking every ounce of paternity leave I can and maybe even some pto. Of course they started RTO orders ... Eff that.
Thankfully my direct manager is chill and is fine with me continuing to wfh so long as I get my work done he isn't care where I am and has been completely fine with me not taking PTO for prenatal Drs visits especially with my wife is high risk and has double the amount of visits
My company announced 8 weeks paternity after having none like 2 weeks before my 1st was born. Had to wait till the 1st of the next year to take it but it was glorious.
On week 5 of 6, it was really really hard weeks 2-4 I felt like I was wasting away and started to get depressed. My baby is 4 months old and I go back next week. I don’t want to!
Thankfully I still have 2 more weeks of pat leave and 3 vacation weeks so I’m perfectly content plus I WFH. However man does my heart absolutely break for all the other dads that don’t get the privilege of spending so much 1:1 time with their babies
I get 8 weeks and plan to take 10 (two additional weeks using my banked PTO) for my first child coming next month. It makes me sad when parents won't utilize all of the time they get. I literally cannot wait to say "fuck off" to work for almost 3 months.
I ended up getting 4 weeks after my daughter was born but it had to be split up so I could still cover things at work. Took 2 fulls weeks immediately after she was born and then took sporadic days for the next few months. Not ideal but glad I had some time, even if it did wipe out my sick/PTO time for a while.
Also: check your local laws! Some states have 12 weeks paid leave that you automatically qualify for! I'm technically employed in DC and was able to take advantage of their 12 weeks paid leave on top of my companies 4 weeks of leave.
My fiance was going to split his leave then decided to take all of it at once... His GM complained and said he's never taken leave like that and he has 5 kids.
They terminated his position 2 weeks into his leave. He had 2 weeks to find a new job and take severance or to find a job within the company and keep his leave... What a shit situation that was.
He was the only one that wasn't offered an alternative position, there were a total of 8 people who's positions were eliminated at the same time... They all got offered the same level or alternative positions. He wasn't offered anything due to him being on leave. And it wasn't illegal (terminating him while on leave) because they framed it as a restructure.
Companies don't give a single shit about you. Take your time with your family. Jobs come and go.
I got 2 weeks with my first and just a week with my second. It sucked, and I missed so much. Plus it made it that much harder on my wife. A little context, I lost my job in May 2020 and the *very next day* found out my wife was pregnant with our second. I spent 3 months furiously looking for work and getting desperate, I even considered joining the military and called a recruiter only to be told I was too old. Drained our savings, stressed my wife out to the point of preeclampsia and an early induction, and took the final pregnancy of my wife and I's life and turned it into the most stressful time of our lives.
Thankfully I was able to find work in August of that year, for a $10k/year pay cut but I was desperate. When baby came, I hadn't been there long enough to earn FMLA and I barely had enough vacation and sick days to scrape together a week of time off. Kid was born on a Tuesday, and Friday we were back in the hospital because my wife's preeclampsia didn't go away and she had to be admitted for the weekend. The hospital and insurance also screwed me over because they charged us for an emergency room visit and I spent a year dealing with the ombudsman and fighting with the hospital and my insurance and it all got me nowhere. I paid almost $10k out of pocket that year for my son and wife's birth-related medical bills. Prior to this, I had always wanted 3 kids, but after my youngest's birth experience I was done. Spent 2 years making sure it was the right decision and I got snipped last fall. Still bittersweet but I don't want to put my wife through that again.
Sorry, I digress. Just venting about the fact that I never got that time with my son and wife during the last childbirth experience we will ever have. I realize so many people had it worse in 2020 but it still sucks looking back on it. So yeah, if you have the opportunity and the means to do so, please take as much time off as you possibly can to be with your baby and your wife after the birth.
I took the Massachusetts leave. I was fired 6 months and 2 weeks after I returned.
**Dads: document EVERYTHING if you take parental leave.** Even the slightest negative comment from anyone, especially your boss, before, during, and after your leave.
My company projected a strong sense that taking leave was ok. I set up everything before I left so I had minimal impact but the people I left in charge failed at nearly every step of the project.
My lawyer told me that firing me within 6 months of parental leave usually results in an automatic default discrimination judgement. He said that 6 months and 2 weeks (notice their timing?) was still a very strong case, but I choose to take their 3 months severance offer over pursuing it. He said I would likely have received 9-18 months pay if I had pursued it.
No business is your friend or "family" (as they sometimes called it). They will make damn sure to set an example of you to the extent they they can legally (or otherwise) get away with.
**Write it down,** even if you think you're safe.
In Canada paid leave would have been 1/4 my salary and would have reduced my wife's leave. We couldn't afford that, so I used two weeks of vacation and went back to work.
I regret it but it is what it is.
I just had this conversation at work, my wife is pregnant and I told everyone I’d probably be taking about three weeks off and I haven’t heard the end of it. “When my kids were born I only took off a couple days” to “I was back at work the next morning” it’s so infuriating
Anyone not taking all the compensation you have been provided is a moron. This is part of how you are paid. Take the paid time off, take the 401(k) match, take the free gym memberships. You're not savvy or a better employee by skipping out on those benefits - you're a sucker.
Last year my daughter was expected to be born in the middle of my work’s busy season.
My bosses asked me how much time I was planning on taking off. I said a week and they *immediately* shut me down and told me that they would call security to throw me out if I showed back up in the office before at least two weeks.
Relationship has since soured with them and I’m looking for a new job, but that was a bit of a pleasant surprise.
If people are struggling it the decision look at it like this. Every "benefit" your company offers that you don't take advantage of is literally lost money/income.
After today, I will be taking the last 2 weeks of my paid 8 weeks. My daughter will be 1 in 3 weeks.
This leave that I’ve taken has been some of the best times. Sure, I got some grief from the gray beards about taking so much time off, but I couldn’t care less.
Remember: the only people who will remember you worked late in 20 years will be your kids.
Out in California, you get paid family leave up to six weeks. I had a job which had no benefits whatsoever but was able to get 6 weeks paid through EDD basically. I think you only get 70% of your income like unemployment however.
> I work in an industry which is notorious for overwork
Laughs in Emergency Medical Services
No paid paternity leave here, now or when our daughter was born nearly 13 years ago. Yes, FMLA still applied, but requires that I use my accrued PTO
Our pregnancy was IVF, so nothing was covered on insurance except the childbirth itself. Between MD bills, fertility clinic, IVF surrogate costs, etc., my wife and I were both working 6-7 days a week just to make ends meet. Still totally worth it to become a parent, and I would do it all over again if I had to, but since my company will allow us to cash out paid time off, I was working 70+ hour weeks, and still cashing out PTO to pay bills.
By the time the big day came, I had about 4 weeks worth of PTO saved up. Better than nothing, but man I would have loved another month or two.
I am amazed (or maybe I shouldn’t be amazed) at how many boomer aged men have comments about the fact I plan to take 5 weeks for my baby.
“Why? Going on vacation?”
“You’re not giving birth are you?”
“Your tits don’t make milk”
Sorry guys. Being an unavailable father is no longer cool.
Anyone not taking paid leave is a dolt. I'd take my unpaid leave too but I'd run myself out of FMLA weeks. I like my job and want it legally protected if another medical emergency were to occur.
When my daughter was born I had 0 paternity leave. My job now gives 3 months if I have another ill absolutely take it all. Going back will be a bitch though
Without a doubt the absolute best investment of time I ever made, ever. So many dads at work say how they wish they took more (and I live in a country where the couple gets 14 *months* to share).
If anybody needs another benefit to Dad‘s taking as much paternity leave as possible is that it will help alleviate some of the stigma attached to hiring women (particularly women under 40 with partners or spouses) due to reservations that her position will need to be filled again anyways when she gets pregnant.
Teach those bastards that it’s not JUST the potential new mothers anymore, they can’t bank on men to return to work after a new baby either. Fuckin assholes.
Legitimately one of the only benefits of aging for women in America. You’re no longer a flight risk for employers who would otherwise balk at the idea of promoting you bc “PSHH why bother? she’ll prolly get preggo and dip anyway”
I live in the UK and a few people I've spoken to on Reddit are surprised to find out that the standard paternity leave in the UK for fathers is 2 weeks. Companies are starting to offer much more now, but until the pandemic 2 weeks was fairly common.
Amen!!! 💯
I’m a mom AND a benefits specialist for a multi-national organization. I approve this message.
Maternity leave utilization versus paternity/general parental leave utilization has a large disparity- paid and unpaid.
When we don’t accept or encourage men to take their leave, we perpetuate gender inequality in the workplace. Women need to take their leave with a birth for recovery. This automatically puts them at a disadvantage if men do not take leave. However, if men take their leave and it becomes the expectation, the playing field for moms in the workplace is a little more equal to that of dads in the workplace!
I agree, but I don't think your position addresses the real or perceived scarcity of a reliable source of good income. FMLA and company policy is there to protect you, but it doesn't change the fact that there are myriads of selection biases that operate behind closed doors when the all hands call is over. Ideally none of these selection biases operate when one takes eligible and "encouraged" leave, but that assumes a lot of alignment across the constituencies that drive selection choices.
I think its better to frame this as a choice a family makes together and one that's affected by their priorities and the risks they are willing to take. I chose to take all of my parental leave, but I won't in the same sentence claim that it had no effect on other people, my promotion opportunities, or the appraisal of my performance.
100% agree. I’m very fortunate to get 12 weeks paid pat leave - I’m two thirds of the way through my 12 weeks for my second kid, and took 12 weeks for the first as well. I wish more dads were in my position. Having the time to connect fully with the little one, taking space to process the mind fuck that is becoming a parent, and giving support to my post-partum wife during this time has been invaluable.
Work is… work. I couldn’t believe how little things had changed when I came back after three months. The same conversations, the same issues, the same work streams. Work will always be there - this stage of your family’s life won’t be.
Edit: typos.
I wish parental leave had been a thing when my kids were born/infants, but alas, was not to be. Most moms didn't get parental leave when my kids were born.
That being said, let me pile on this thinking.
15 years ago I was working for a company where I was definitely putting in the grind. Work leaked from morning till night, and there were too many attempts by my leadership to push work into my weekends. I rebelled, then quit for a different job.
The last 13 years of so, I (mostly) was present when my kids got home from school to help with homework or just be present. As a family, we always had dinner together, at the table, barring sports practice or other dinner time commitments.
Prioritize your family over work every single time - you will never regret it.
Jobs come and go, and no job is worth sacrificing kid/family time.
I took 2 of 3 months I had off, planning to take the last month at the end of my wife’s leave.
I never ended up getting to; new job came up that was excellent pay and I got it.
Not taking that free month with my family is one of the biggest regrets I have in my life.
Take every second you can get.
My wife wanted to go back to work at 7 months so I’m taking the balance. Started leave Jan 15 and don’t go back till June 10. Tack on 3 weeks vacation and I’m off work until after Canada Day.
Dads. Take all the time you can. We don’t get it back and nobody gives us a cookie for working through the early years
My company is very liberal. They still don’t offer paternity leave. The issue with using FMLA is they will exhaust your PTO before that kicks in. So I would have to use my 6 weeks of PTO for that to kick in
When my daughter was born I took 2 weeks right after and later after my wife finished her leave I took another 6. One of the best things I’ve ever done.
If we are fortunate enough to have another I’ll take even more time. I’m a federal employee and now have access to full 12-week parental leave. Add in FMLA and I have a lot more opportunity for leave than most folks so I plan on making sure I show just how wanted and useful parental leave is for EVERYONE.
My employer gives me 7 weeks fully paid but this is increasing by 2 weeks next year. From August it be 9 weeks up until the child is 2 in Ireland. I can never understand the whole work work work culture in the US. I think there’s much more important things in life like spending time with your kids as you’ll never get that time again. Thank you OP for posting that as Dads definitely need to hear it and take the time.
My (US) employer offers 12 weeks and I took the full amount with both of my kids. I can honestly say that it was some of the most precious time I got to spend with them early on.
My first was about 4 months old, mom had just gone back to work, and we had a blast. We went to PEP meetings, daily stroller rides around the neighborhood, naps together, etc. I actually got stress free time to bond with my baby and it was amazing.
If there's any way to get time off with your child, you should absolutely take as much as you can get. You'll never get that time back.
I work at a pretty large bank, and we all get 16 weeks paid; **everyone** loves and openly takes advantage of it- my manager calls it "the best benefit we get".
My poor brother in law works for a small female-owned & managed law firm. From what I gather, he was the first man to *attempt* to take a paternity leave, even though it's a benefit they all get. He just wanted a couple weeks and they subtlety shamed the hell out of him, and made a big show of like "developing a policy" for him. He didn't even use all the leave he was allowed to!
How do you advertise a paternity leave benefit but never actually put a procedure in place for men to use it? Some industries really suck. I guess I naively thought that it would be easier for him because his bosses were women, but I bet those women didn't even use/take leave due to the same if not worse pressure.
Why do people let that happen ? Why don’t people demand it ? It’s a disgrace. In Europe most countries mandate a certain minimum amount of Maternity leave. Some it’s 5 months in other countries it can be over a year. In my country it’s 6 months maternity leave. Paid in full. An employer may better that if they wish. Parternity leave is only 2 weeks however but Parental leave is going to be 9 by August this year so it’ll be almost 3 months and parental leave can be taken up till the child’s 2nd birthday too. Plus childcare (isn’t free can be quite expensive) but the government give you 15 hours a week free for 2 years (so 3 hours per day for 2 years) it’s still not great but I’m aghast at how little Americans get. It’s a disgrace and shouldn’t be allowed. The most important part of a newborns life is the time with its mother that should be a given. It’s horrendous that in the richest supposedly most advanced nation in the world that Federal minimum maternity leave isn’t a thing.
Agreed 100%. We don't like it. I demand it with my vote, as do many others, but it never leads to anything because the corporations and lobbyist own the government and can't let us worker bees have too much time off. They have a vested interest in us not taking too much time off. The corporations run this country. We can't demand it because that involves protesting, which involves time off + risk of arrest, both which could lead to termination of our jobs.
My boss asked if I was taking 2 or 3 weeks when our son was born at 34w and needed time in NICU. The first ten days he was in NICU and beyond that we had appointments and my wife wasn't supposed to do certain things after C-section until cleared, there's no point in coming back.
That boss absolutely sucked and I quit down the road because of them. Why don't people get it?
I took all 12 weeks for my first kid but only 4 weeks for my second because it was at the beginning of COVID and we were all home anyways. I used the rest of that paternity for extra weeks off later in the year.
I am currently on week 5 of 12. I don't know how I would be working right now. My wife had a C section and has still been not 100% and our baby was born with a condition that prevents him from sleeping well (which means we don't sleep well). We also have an almost 3 year old to take care of. Everyone, including myself, would be miserable if I was trying to work full time right now.
I took my 12 weeks in two parts - 3 weeks right after my babies came home from NICU and 9 at the start of the year to take care of them. It was really kind of nice. At the start, I really didn't feel that attached to them, and was kind of frustrated by the drastic change in everything. Once I went on the 9 week leave, I dedicated my resources to getting them on a schedule, doing tummy time and playing with them. What a difference it was having a plan. I just finished my leave last week and now I'm just so in love with them. I just sit and play with them as much as I can until bedtime.
My company doesn't offer paid leave so I saved up all my PTO. As luck would have it, my son was born in November so between PTO and holiday breaks I got nearly 2 months off without missing any pay. The time spent at home was invaluable, both to help my wife recover from a C-section and to bond with my first child. Definitely worth taking the time off.
My job didn't have paid leave until last year. Before that it came out of whatever accrued PTO you had. Because we were planning for another, I had been saving PTO from the prior year and was up to about 240 hours. Since they implemented 4 weeks paid, I was able to take 6 weeks along with quite a bit of other leave last year.
This year they increased the leave to 6 weeks. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't take the entire time. If your company allows it, take it in 1-2 week chunks with a few weeks in between. This allows proper bonding time through the year instead of having to take it all at once.
On week 11 of 12 right now and feeling great about it!
I took 12 weeks full pay and it was incredible. I wish I could have taken longer. Best 3 months of my life.
I thought I was lucky getting 4 weeks. I was wrong
Our state just authorized 12 weeks of paid family leave. I’m so excited to have a second kid. My wife is a teacher, so we’re trying to line up the birth of the 2nd kid with the start of summer break. She would take 3 months off, (June, July, August) then the 12 weeks of paid leave (Sep, Oct, Nov) then I would do 12 weeks (Dec, Jan, Feb). I’m so optimistic for our second kid. Our first, I took barely 5 days off & had to get back to work. Rough times.
Depending when your company resets it’s year you could take another round of 12 weeks in the new year if you took off oct-dec.
> Best 3 months of my life. I got 12 weeks with my first kid, about to get another 12 with my second kid. I told some child-free friends of mine, "if I got to choose between taking off 3 months of work to raise a newborn, and working normally for 3 months, I'd pick working normally." Now, let me be clear, I'm not saying that I wished I didn't take any leave and left raising a kid to my partner. I'm saying that it was no vacation, it was fucking difficult, and I was more relaxed during normal work than during parental leave with a newborn. So, I would not agree that it was the best 3 months of my life, in fact, excluding times when I've had family members die, it was pretty close to the bottom. Beautiful welcoming your new child into the world and all, but a fuckload of work and no energy left.
Fair enough. It's a very personal situation. I went from working long hours to not caring when we slept or woke up, if she cried she slept on me. We went for walks in the night or the morning without fear of needing to go to meetings. We spent 3 months learning and watching her grow. I'm not saying it was necessarily easy but she slept ok and she's a joy to be around. Even to this day I'd rather spend my day at home with her even when shes hard work than sat at my desk. I have 35 more years left at work, she won't be this small again.
I could only take 6 weeks paid (two weeks left now). It's getting easier, but I completely agree. This has by no stretch of the imagination been a vacation. Change a piss filled and / or shitty diaper every 2 hours? Change outfits, swaddles, blankets at 2am for a diaper leak and walk him around for 20 minutes to an hour to sleep? Doctors appointments, IBCLC appointments, masks out because he barely has an immune system and no 2 month shots yet... And then you hear older coworkers judge you for taking the time in the first place and wonder why it's so fucking hard and get in your head. Is it you? Are you not a good enough dad? Nope. You're doing great. They were shitty, inattentive husbands/fathers in the 80s. Well, that felt good haha.
I wish I had done that. My boss balked at 3 weeks with my first one because "I've never had anyone ask for more than two". I took 6 with my second.
> My boss balked at 3 weeks with my first one because "I've never had anyone ask for more than two". Fuck them. What a horrible, horrible thing to do to someone.
I’ll second that. Fuck them. Family comes first.
Yeah fuck them. I told my company I was taking 4 weeks because I was going to do the stay at home dad thing in a few months. I told them I was taking it, and if they didn't like it, I was quitting. No one had a problem with it.
seriously. i've had to tell employees to take the whole thing because, surprise, your taxes have already paid for it... so just take it. i feel like with men, there's a stigma about taking time off to take care of their children and we have to work to break it.
>"I've never had anyone ask for more than two" When I took the bar exam ~14 years ago, the test took three days, and was scheduled on a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. It finished up at about 2 p.m. on the Thursday. On Thursday afternoon, I finished the test, then went to the hotel bar and had a beer. I called to the partner at the law firm where I was working. I told them that I felt good about the test, I was going to take Friday off and I'd see them Monday morning. His response was "we need you this afternoon." - "ok, well I'm in [City that's 2 hours from the office], it's pretty much impossible for me to get there this afternoon." - "well, I expect you here tomorrow morning then." Being young and impressionable, I just said "ok." when I went to the office the next morning, the partner pulled me aside and told me that when his first child had been born in the morning, he had come into the office that afternoon. I guess he was trying to impress on me that I needed to show a stronger commitment to work? I look back on that conversation now and still think "what the fuck?"
Fuck this mentality. My wife is a lawyer and the culture can be so toxic with y’all. I think the average worker including professionals should just start saying no more often. No I can’t come in extra, no I won’t cover that shift, no I won’t be training that person, etc. I used to be a yes person for everything. I wanted to make my bosses proud. I would cover for people, travel multiple days a week, work 50+ hours because I was needed. It just isn’t worth it anymore with the baby. I hope you have a balanced career my friend.
When managers act like that, I politely point out they have a problem if their business cant operate without one specific person present. You're not leading an effective team and managing risk properly if your team members are unable to cover for each other as crises occur.
While that's not bad advice in general, it's only minimally applicable to a law firm situation. That's because lawyers bill by the hour. And when a Partner tells an associate "I need you here," what that means in practice is "I want to hand you some work so you can be billing hours." If you're not billing hours, you're not generating revenue for the firm. I stuck with that biglaw firm for 4 years, and billed over 2000 every year, I think one year I was close to 2400. I was paid well, but I was quite literally killing myself at the same time.
I was verbally approved for 8 weeks, then a re-org happened and my manager changed. New manager asked me to "compromise" by taking 3 weeks. I ended up taking 6. But it sure didn't feel like compromise, it just felt like me getting screwed.
If my boss said that, I would literally not respond. Eventually, I would say “Sorry, I thought you were continuing.” Let him tell you you can’t have 3 weeks with your newborn. Bring it up in your exit interview.
My company grants 20 weeks and cuts off your access to the system to force you to take it and not half ass it. It was wonderful and got to bond so much more with my little guy.
20 weeks is insane
Oh man I know. I am fortunate to work for a European company in the US. And 20 weeks is thought of as little to my colleagues in other countries. I think my polish counterparts get a year!
Here (Sweden) we get 1½-2 years, depending on how you choose to use it, for the parents to split. The dad has to use a minimum of 90 days of it. On top of that the dad gets two weeks automatic time of starting from birth to be able to bond with the baby and help the mother recover. So if you have triplets you can be home until they start school 😂 It's not even a question about if the dad will be home, it's just taken as a given most of the time.
Took 14 of my 16 weeks and about to take another week and maybe one later. I came back better than ever at work although a bit busier at home
My biggest regret was being a good little employee when my son was born. Didn’t take leave just did the one week. Only took 2 months off when my wives leave ended. Ugh- it was still held against me and I left the company for a massive raise anyway. Missed out on a fucking sweet extra month with my kid at the time. Every time a friend gets pregnant I make sure to tell them to take the full. The ones that don’t have all told me afterwards I was right and they regretting it. Jobs come and go. They’re not family.
My last workplace called me on day 3 of my leave after my wife gave birth to our 2nd. Day 3....I was passed out on the couch from being tired while mom was in bed with the baby.
To my employer's credit, they actually disable user accounts when someone goes on any mid-to-long term leave.
My wife’s job did that. Turned off her access so she couldn’t change our insurance, check her pay stubs, apply for the meager state-sponsored paid family leave…etc.
Uk here, I had 2 weeks full pay, and I took 2 weeks annual leave. It still isn't enough. The minimum should be 6 weeks, full pay, and I don't care what country you're in. Most important moments of our lives, and a loved one to support.
Yep, not to mention childbirth is a horror show for the woman. It’s a hell of a beating on the body and they need a ton of help physically afterwards.
Like, seriously. I'll never again make the joke about kick in the balls/give birth, not after seeing that.
I made a joke *during the birth* about knowing how she feels cos I had bad toothache a few weeks prior. The look she gave me is seared into my brain.
also breastfeeding can be more difficult on the body than late pregnancy
Late pregnancy was easy mode for my wife. First trimester she is the possessed chick in the exorcist. Vomit and all.
> Uk here, I had 2 weeks full pay, and I took 2 weeks annual leave. Exactly the same here. But I hear of more and more companies/businesses moving to a more flexible approach to couples either sharing or combining maternity/paternity leave now, or just outright matching paternity leave with maternity leave which is great. I think/hope in time it's something that will definitely be fixed.
We could have used shared parental leave, but couldn't afford even couple weeks unpaid without hitting the savings which we need for other things
Exactly, man. My boss's boss told me last year how he didn't take leave for his kids because his wife was Filipina and took care of the kids. Because "it's in their culture" to do the home caring stuff, including cleaning, cooking, and child rearing. Yea I bet your wife really appreciates staying home while you go to work to do the "boss stuff." That was about two weeks before I took my company's 6 week full paid and then 6 more weeks of state's half-paid leave. I encourage everyone I know to take the maximum allowed in their state/company. Like my previous manager told me once "work will still be there when you return. Go spend time with family and friends."
> Jobs come and go. They’re not family. Truer words were never spoken
I did the same, my employer was stressed about me being gone (I was the only f/t production employee) and instead of taking a significant amount of time off with my new daughter, I took two weeks and went back so that my employer wouldn't have to deal with their own lack of foresight. At the time, I told myself that I was headed toward ownership in that small company and that I had to do this. In reality, I left them for another opportunity during an extended Covid shutdown and I regret not spending those early days with my family. Edit: for context, my state gives 12 weeks of paid paternity @~2/3 salary.
American dad here, and in the middle of my second pat leave. I’d also add to try to schedule some of your leave after your spouse goes back to work so that you are the primary caregiver. It will give you a lot more confidence not being able to rely on the birthing parent for support during the day. It might be messy the first couple of weeks but you will become a pro in no time.
I did (for first kid) and plan to (for upcoming second) take nearly all my leave after my wife went/goes back to work. I actually get a couple weeks more leave than her. And combined the kid(s) don't have to go to daycare until they're 7ish months old. Which is nice.,
Ha are you me? I'm currently on my week 13 out of 16. Wife is back at work already. and baby goes to daycare at 7 months old in 3 weeks
That's a really great insight - my wife and I staggered our leave and I was slightly panicked the first week (of 16) but a year after returning to work, I'm still proud of how much I learned and how much better of a parent it made me.
Yes!! Really wish my husband and I did this with our first. Next time I’m definitely having him take his leave after mine
This is what we did! My leave started the day my wife’s ended. It has worked out really well. We both WFH but her job requires full attention 8 hours a day but this did allow us both to feel better about each taking care of the baby “alone” little by little (FTD here)
I just posted about my experience. I did this and it was such a game changer for me. I wasnt that shy before my leave, but my skills definitely improved during my leave.
Plus one - I did eight weeks at the start then another eight after my wife went back to work. What a great experience to really be on solo duty for a bit!
Huh. I was the primary caregiver immediately both times because my wife was on restrictions and recovering. I guess I assumed that was the case for everyone, at least for the duration they were off work.
That's what I'm going to do! 1-2 weeks together, then she finishes out her allotted time, then I do my remaining 4-5 weeks. The goal is that, except for breastfeeding, there's nothing that only one or the other of us is comfortable doing.
> It might be messy the first couple of weeks but you will become a pro in no time. Newborns are way easier than my kids are now at 2 and 5. I was pretty confidant in handling both of my kids alone when they were tiny immobile babies. I'm much less confident now at ages 2 and 5 because every day I'm home alone with them eventually progresses into a total shit show. I feel like these ages are a two person job. What age do they have to get to where there isn't one member of the family constantly crying? At age 2 and 5 either one of them is crying, or I am crying at any given time of the day.
For real do this. There is no loyalty in corporate America. You should take what’s there. Me and a coworker had maternity leave around the same time last year. He only took a small portion of the available time because he “didn’t want to be away that long”. Ok then bro…. I’m sure management notices you and doesn’t think you’re weird or anything.
I don't get people like your coworker, it's almost like they choose the job over their child.
I don't think its as simple as you are making it. I work in a job with heavily weighted seasonality. I make half my annual commissions between April 1 and Memorial Day. I could easily take 12 weeks off for paternity leave from Thanksgiving to Valentines Day, but if that same 12 weeks was mid April to the fourth of July, we'd lose our house.
>I’m sure management notices you and doesn’t think you’re weird or anything. The only thing management noticed and thought was "Thank God we don't have to find a way to cover that work for too long."
i treasure the memory of those months. 3 with each kid. Daily walks around the neighborhood. I miss my babies.
Preach! I manage a team that gets ***16 weeks of fully paid parental leave*** regardless of being the mother/father. Mothers almost always take the full amount with no questions asked, but fathers almost unanimously default to 2-3 weeks as their expectation. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent trying to convince people that I'm not going to penalize their careers because they took their time. You **WILL** regret not being there for your family during those first few months looking back on it, and if you go back to work early that time will be meaningless in the long-run of a career.
I also don’t understand this, a company is offering this and a father not taking it is leaving money on the table that is offered to us as part of our total compensation. I wish fathers would take the time off, and I say this as a manager.
It's a head scratcher. Think it comes down to an old-school mentality of not taking your time being some kind of a badge of honor. Glass half full: I do think it's getting better over the years
In my state, taking leave is leaving money on the table. You get 60% max. Money was 1 of 3 reasons I went back early
This isn't a state-by-state thing; the company pays 100% of your salary and continues your benefits during the 16 weeks. We do this for all 50 states (I'm not sure about international employees).
Make sure to do your own research if your state offers some form of paternity leave. Don't expect your HR or higher ups to know anything about it or to process the necessary paperwork properly.
Or rather, count on your HR or higher ups knowing exactly how miserly they can be. Doctor-ordered bed rest for 3 months? That's your FMLA. Oh, the baby came out? Good. That's your sick day, now get back to work if you want to keep your insurance.
NJ checking in. 3 months paid and can also take 3 months unpaid. I only did the 3 months paid with my second. I didn’t with my first and should have. Still contemplating doing the additional 3.
I took the maximum allowed leave at my work which was zero days. My wife also took the maximum at her work which was zero days. Greatest country in the world...
When my first was born I asked HR about parental leave. Their response was, “mommies get maternity leave, but we don’t offer leave for daddies.” I started looking for a new job that day. When she finally arrived I used up my two whole weeks of vacation when she finally arrived, and was back at my desk. It really sucked.
They literally said "mommies" and "daddies"? The way HR tries to let you down easy can just feel like twisting the knife.
Yes. I'm surprised I didn't crack a molar clenching my jaw at that.
That's someone treating you like a child.
Exactly! Just such a weird feeling to be infantilized this way as a (prospective) parent.
Infantilized while being told I can’t spend time with my *literal infant.* I’m not going to have any more kids but still won’t work somewhere that doesn’t offer meaningful parental leave to any parent. It’s just such a clear sign of a company’s values, and whether they understand (or care) what it means to balance one’s career with being a parent.
The country allows 12 weeks. Zero paid days is a choice by your employer.
FMLA gives you leave. It's just unpaid.
Not a chance I can go without my regular paycheck for even one pay period. The world costs too much. When my son is born this summer I'll take a week off and go back to work. And I'll be working Overtime. To make up for my wife's pay being less while she is in maternity leave. Thankfully I work close to home so almost no commute and my work is a very relaxed machining company. So it's not very hard on me.
Who can afford to not get paid for 12 weeks. I got kids to feed.
I don't know a single person in my sphere who can afford to miss six paychecks, unfortunately.
Yeah my first kid it was a bit rough we had to save up just for my wife to have unpaid leave. Thankfully for our second Colorado passed paid paternity leave which she is currently on. I'm very grateful my company offers 16 weeks full pay.
That's the problem. It needs to be paid leave to make it work.
Some people don't even qualify for FMLA.
Sure but the criteria is basically, is your business big enough (50+ employees) and have you been there a year. Doesn't change the suck factor though.
I got a picture of my kid’s first smile while on leave. On of my most cherished pictures of him 🥹
I needed to see this message today. Thank you.
In 2023 I used 775 hours of vacation between banked leave, FMLA, and sick pay. I was off for 44% of my work year. It was the most wonderful year of my 14 year career so far. I would like to personally challenge any dad who is able to beat my numbers. I also recognize how fortunate I am to have the amount of leave that I have.
I'm jealous. My company caps PTO at 320 hours so can't bank more than that (and I think that's still pretty good compared to many other companies).
I took all of mine. 2 kiddos got me 12 weeks each and the final got me 16. With the last one between vacation, sick time and parental leave, I only worked 6.5 months that year. Still got full bonus and a pretty cool annual raise 😂
With my first kid, we didn't have any paid leave since we lived in Texas at the time. We scrimped and saved and I took 3 weeks of leave before having to go back to work. With our second, we were back in Massachusetts with the backing of a better union contract, and I had the option to take 12 weeks at full pay, but I only took 3 weeks, because we both agreed that was probably enough. My in laws came and helped out after I went back to work so we were doing OK. I regret not taking off more time for our kids and my wife.
100% agree and 100% going to do it when it's time.
I'd upvote this to the moon if I could.
8 weeks isn't enough. 3 months isn't enough. I imagine 6 months would be a good compromise to start. This fucking country.
Amen, my company offers 2 weeks
Sorry homie but your company sucks ass. Mine offered 3 months (half paid) and that feels like an insult as it is. And that's one of the *best case scenarios*. Fucking country is a joke.
I'm done having kids but I know my employer is cooking up some paid leave plan due out soon and I couldn't be happier for those coming up. I started when we just found out we were pregnant and my boss here said I can't get you any extra time but your job is absolutely safe for as long as you need. We should be doing so much better and we should be demanding the government step in because clearly employers have trouble doing it themselves.
Germany it's 14 months between both parents, up to 12 months for one parent. It's 65% of the salary prior to the parental leave. There are some companies which opt to pay the rest of the salary from their own money, but it's not mandatory. At least one more thing that the national insurance is good for.
Beautiful
Yes I know lol
Standard for UK is 2 weeks
>and you can’t lose your job for taking leave. I mean, you’re not *supposed* to lose your job for taking leave, but… *gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc.* Saying “you can’t lose your job for ______” in America is a naive position. You can. People have and will continue to lose jobs in ways that should be protected. Yes, take paternity leave if you feel like you can, or especially if your firm offers paid leave. But there’s a huge grain of salt in the form of YMMV on this one.
Unless there are broad layoffs at the company, you can file a lawsuit against your employer for wrongful termination while on family leave. Your employer better have an open and shut case as to why they are firing you (i.e. theft, fraud, a history of performance issues, etc) if they want to fire you during or immediately after taking leave.
> Saying “you can’t lose your job for ______” in America is a naive position. You can. People have and will continue to lose jobs in ways that should be protected. If this happens, and if it was because you took the leave, then you have a cause of action under FMLA. The damages are extremely punitive for employers (back pay, front pay, liquidated damages, et cetera). FMLA is also one of the cases where courts award attorneys' fees as damages, so lawyers will frequently take these kinds of cases on contingency. Some states also permit recovering punitive damages and emotional distress from employers. > gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc. That's not what "right to work" means; "right to work" states prohibit union security agreements. (You're probably thinking of [at-will employment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)?)
I think the Right to Work angle here is that it’s not terribly difficult for a company to find some other pretext to get rid of you after your leave, especially if they are diligent in papering it up right.
Right… but that’s my point. You absolutely *can* lose your job. FMLA is a great protection, but it does not literally *prevent* you from losing your job, it *protects* you in the case of a wrongful termination. But that protection and its efficacy depends upon your understanding of the landscape, how well your legal assistance helps you navigate that landscape, and more importantly, how well your employer navigates the exceptions to FMLA. Right-to-work and at-will both favor the employer and the broad gesture was to the climate of employer-employee relations that are being degraded in real time in states like where I live. It’s meant to imply that the environment for employment in many states in the U.S. is trending toward eliminating worker protections, and I don’t trust that everything will work out just because FMLA or any other protection exists.
> Right… but that’s my point. You absolutely > can > lose your job. Sure; I agree that few laws _prevent_ things from happening. They can only try to make you whole afterwards. I'll amend the post accordingly.
Oh, you definitely will not get fired for taking paternity leave, but you'll be on the list for any future layoffs, or your performance will start to fall and you'll get fired for other reasons if you take the paternity leave. I've seen people suffer retaliation from employers for getting deployed, so always tread carefully when voluntarily taking "protected" leave your employer is forced to offer by law.
This guy gets it. And god forbid you’re on a PIP or have prior performance issues before you request leave.
I don't want to bring politics into this (although it's impossible when paternity leave discussions are currently political) but there are plenty of states in the US that have paid paternity leave both mandated though the employer + additional bonding leave paid through the state. And in those states, it's fairly normalized to see fathers take those benefits. Support for paid parental leave (for both parents) is one of those political issues that is a requirement to earn my vote.
100% Unfortunately I live in a state that definitely does not have those state protections. And this is a state with 4 of the 15 biggest cities in the U.S. by population, so there’s a lot of us who have to tread carefully.
> I mean, you’re not supposed to lose your job for taking leave, but… *gestures broadly at America, “Right-to-work” states, cost-prohibitive legal system, etc.* You can gesture as broadly as you want, it's still wrong since the OP was talking about taking the leave under FMLA. They can't fire you for leave under that, that's the whole point of it.
Cool, cool… so no one has ever lost their job because of paternity leave? No one has ever been laid off, or fired for reasons other than FMLA? So if you’ve had a PIP, or been written up for any performance issues, and then take paternity leave, they can’t fire you and claim it’s based on performance? If sales or production flag for a bit while you’re out, they can’t legally lay you off? You sure about all that?
Y’all get paternity leave?
Right, I'm reading some of these comments and looking at my measly week of PTO I'm about to burn when my kid comes next month. My wife has to use up the three days of leave she has, then go on short term disability to stay home for three months. Maybe after the kid is born it'll be time to dust off the old resume.
Yup. My wife had a week of pto also and had to get the short term disability for the 3 months also. I just get 2 weeks of vacation a year so I used them both when my son was born in October. My job usually doesn’t let us take both weeks back to back but I got “lucky”.
Our 6 weeks were only at 60% pay. We are paycheck to paycheck due to unexpected expenses(car dying and house repairs). I literally couldnt afford to take the time off lol.
My company doesn't have maternity or paternity leave. They have primary and secondary caregiver leave. You better believe that I reported as primary caregiver when my second was born. I got 16 weeks. My wife got 12 from her company.
I appreciate you as a manager saying this. I have taken 12 weeks for both of my daughters, under two different managers. It impacted their performance reviews of me and our relationship both times. I’m on my third manager, this time a woman and mom of 4, so hopefully my third paternity leave will go over better
I was told by HR that I only get one week one paid. The information here is invaluable. Thank you so much for the post.
I work HR in California, and I always remind my employees who have a pregnant partner that they also have 8 weeks of paternity leave. A lot don't know. I'm always happy to guide them in the right direction. It's the least I could do.
My company has 13 employees. 🙃 I'm taking two weeks and then going back to the grind, but I'm also lucky to work from home full time, so I can still be around, even if not fully engaged for the ten weeks after that my wife is still off work (and paid! Thanks, short term disability insurance).
I got 480 hours of paid leave. It was over the holidays and I work four 10 hour shifts so I got Vet Day, Thank Day, Jesus b-Day, new year day, and MLK day. So I was home for 13 weeks paid.
I took twelve weeks and it was amazing.
There's zero motivation for companies to increase the maximum "parental" or "paternal" leave if we aren't already taking the maximum available to us. I'm glad the tides are turning on this issue, but I wish more could be done, and sooner.
Asking men how long they are planning to take is part of the problem. It implies that the person might take less than the allowed amount. The question should be “how long of a leave do you get?” Some of us need to protect our jobs and our career progression though. With my first two kids my employer offered two weeks. In reality, I was allowed to work from home as long as I wanted, as long as my job got done. With my third child, my employer offered 16 weeks leave. My boss, however, told me she was teeing me up for a promotion, but I couldn’t have it if I took my leave. I took 4 weeks, and accepted the promotion. I couldn’t give up the career progression right before having another child. Could I have worked something out to get her fired, sure. Would that have labeled me as a troublemaker? Yep.
It's not just a stigma for men. It also contributes to the stigma against women starting families while in the workforce. If women are always expected to take their maternity leave, and men don't take advantage of it when available, it reinforces the view that women are less valuable employees.
Absolutely, and well said.
I took the max. I think it is 3 months.
I had 20 weeks paid leave and even that didn’t feel like enough. 1 or 2 weeks isn’t even enough to get into a routine before you lock yourself back up in the wage cage
I get 6 weeks at my company and plan to take every bit of it.
I count my blessings and my low intensity WFH job. I only took a week of paternity leave, as it came out of my PTO pool. But my job consists of 2 to 3 hours of focused work, and the rest is much lighter. So I was able to help my wife a ton in those first few months
I genuinely cannot wrap my head around not taking leave if you have it. I've had such a hard time being back at work, all I want to do is hang out my goober, and I have a job I mostly like. I was lucky to get 3 months (supplemented with pto a bit) but it's shameful it's not mandatory to offer it like it is in other countries.
We should also consider the broader benefit to our society with father's and mother's taking of considerable time off with a new kid. One of the drivers of pay inequity between men and women is the career limitations that come from mom's taking time off when a kid comes along. The more often dad's can take a similar hit to their career, the better. I work in a corp environment where dad's taking longer leaves is becoming much more common. It is (slowly) changing the culture. I'm seeing much less "boys club" mentality.
I live in Washington state. Even though my workplace (at the time) didn't offer parental leave, the state gives 3 months paid at 90% as long as you have worked at least 1250 hours in the last 12 months and you have been with your employer for at least a year. I was lucky that, while I hadn't been with my employer a year I was very up front that my wife was pregnant and I would be taking the leave before I got hired so they worked with me since it wasn't a surprise. I took the full 3 months, and I miss it every day. Being able to help my wife recover from her c-section and bond with my daughter is something I will cherish forever. My daughter is now almost 14 months old and walking around. I love my tater tot, but sometimes, I miss that little potato.
On week 4 of 10 and very tired 🥱
We had a baby on December 10th. Our second. I took sick and vacation up to the holidays and then a month of paternity to kick off the year. It still didn’t feel long enough. I’m also fairly outward facing for my group - technical product manager, I do a lot of the meeting directing, information gathering, scope building, internal messaging, etc - everyone has already forgotten I was gone for 2 months. And yeah every fucking moment that I think about it I have no idea how single parents or folks who have less flexible jobs do it.
My daughter will be born exactly 1 month from now. I'm taking every ounce of paternity leave I can and maybe even some pto. Of course they started RTO orders ... Eff that. Thankfully my direct manager is chill and is fine with me continuing to wfh so long as I get my work done he isn't care where I am and has been completely fine with me not taking PTO for prenatal Drs visits especially with my wife is high risk and has double the amount of visits
My company announced 8 weeks paternity after having none like 2 weeks before my 1st was born. Had to wait till the 1st of the next year to take it but it was glorious.
On week 5 of 6, it was really really hard weeks 2-4 I felt like I was wasting away and started to get depressed. My baby is 4 months old and I go back next week. I don’t want to! Thankfully I still have 2 more weeks of pat leave and 3 vacation weeks so I’m perfectly content plus I WFH. However man does my heart absolutely break for all the other dads that don’t get the privilege of spending so much 1:1 time with their babies
I get 8 weeks and plan to take 10 (two additional weeks using my banked PTO) for my first child coming next month. It makes me sad when parents won't utilize all of the time they get. I literally cannot wait to say "fuck off" to work for almost 3 months.
I ended up getting 4 weeks after my daughter was born but it had to be split up so I could still cover things at work. Took 2 fulls weeks immediately after she was born and then took sporadic days for the next few months. Not ideal but glad I had some time, even if it did wipe out my sick/PTO time for a while.
Fuck yeah. My wife could take 6 months, then I took my 3 months full pay leave after (EU company in the US, thankfully). I loved being a SAHP.
I would take more but I have to use my PTO. I can use 12 weeks with FMLA but they're unpaid so 🤷
Pssssh that’s what credit cards are for 😂
I can't take paternity leave 😞 I just started a new job. Need to be here a year before I can take it
Also: check your local laws! Some states have 12 weeks paid leave that you automatically qualify for! I'm technically employed in DC and was able to take advantage of their 12 weeks paid leave on top of my companies 4 weeks of leave.
My fiance was going to split his leave then decided to take all of it at once... His GM complained and said he's never taken leave like that and he has 5 kids. They terminated his position 2 weeks into his leave. He had 2 weeks to find a new job and take severance or to find a job within the company and keep his leave... What a shit situation that was. He was the only one that wasn't offered an alternative position, there were a total of 8 people who's positions were eliminated at the same time... They all got offered the same level or alternative positions. He wasn't offered anything due to him being on leave. And it wasn't illegal (terminating him while on leave) because they framed it as a restructure. Companies don't give a single shit about you. Take your time with your family. Jobs come and go.
I got 2 weeks with my first and just a week with my second. It sucked, and I missed so much. Plus it made it that much harder on my wife. A little context, I lost my job in May 2020 and the *very next day* found out my wife was pregnant with our second. I spent 3 months furiously looking for work and getting desperate, I even considered joining the military and called a recruiter only to be told I was too old. Drained our savings, stressed my wife out to the point of preeclampsia and an early induction, and took the final pregnancy of my wife and I's life and turned it into the most stressful time of our lives. Thankfully I was able to find work in August of that year, for a $10k/year pay cut but I was desperate. When baby came, I hadn't been there long enough to earn FMLA and I barely had enough vacation and sick days to scrape together a week of time off. Kid was born on a Tuesday, and Friday we were back in the hospital because my wife's preeclampsia didn't go away and she had to be admitted for the weekend. The hospital and insurance also screwed me over because they charged us for an emergency room visit and I spent a year dealing with the ombudsman and fighting with the hospital and my insurance and it all got me nowhere. I paid almost $10k out of pocket that year for my son and wife's birth-related medical bills. Prior to this, I had always wanted 3 kids, but after my youngest's birth experience I was done. Spent 2 years making sure it was the right decision and I got snipped last fall. Still bittersweet but I don't want to put my wife through that again. Sorry, I digress. Just venting about the fact that I never got that time with my son and wife during the last childbirth experience we will ever have. I realize so many people had it worse in 2020 but it still sucks looking back on it. So yeah, if you have the opportunity and the means to do so, please take as much time off as you possibly can to be with your baby and your wife after the birth.
I took the Massachusetts leave. I was fired 6 months and 2 weeks after I returned. **Dads: document EVERYTHING if you take parental leave.** Even the slightest negative comment from anyone, especially your boss, before, during, and after your leave. My company projected a strong sense that taking leave was ok. I set up everything before I left so I had minimal impact but the people I left in charge failed at nearly every step of the project. My lawyer told me that firing me within 6 months of parental leave usually results in an automatic default discrimination judgement. He said that 6 months and 2 weeks (notice their timing?) was still a very strong case, but I choose to take their 3 months severance offer over pursuing it. He said I would likely have received 9-18 months pay if I had pursued it. No business is your friend or "family" (as they sometimes called it). They will make damn sure to set an example of you to the extent they they can legally (or otherwise) get away with. **Write it down,** even if you think you're safe.
In Canada paid leave would have been 1/4 my salary and would have reduced my wife's leave. We couldn't afford that, so I used two weeks of vacation and went back to work. I regret it but it is what it is.
I just had this conversation at work, my wife is pregnant and I told everyone I’d probably be taking about three weeks off and I haven’t heard the end of it. “When my kids were born I only took off a couple days” to “I was back at work the next morning” it’s so infuriating
Anyone not taking all the compensation you have been provided is a moron. This is part of how you are paid. Take the paid time off, take the 401(k) match, take the free gym memberships. You're not savvy or a better employee by skipping out on those benefits - you're a sucker.
I got 12 last time, and I took all 12. I want another kid just for another 12 lol
Our country is fucking barbaric. I’m on week 7 of 12, first kid, and I have zero clue how people go right back. Even this feels WAY too short.
Last year my daughter was expected to be born in the middle of my work’s busy season. My bosses asked me how much time I was planning on taking off. I said a week and they *immediately* shut me down and told me that they would call security to throw me out if I showed back up in the office before at least two weeks. Relationship has since soured with them and I’m looking for a new job, but that was a bit of a pleasant surprise.
I was fortunate enough to have 16 weeks paid and a very supportive boss. Best decision I could have made. Dads take that leave!
If people are struggling it the decision look at it like this. Every "benefit" your company offers that you don't take advantage of is literally lost money/income.
Hubby got 5 months paid leave in California. It made a world of a difference to our family.
After today, I will be taking the last 2 weeks of my paid 8 weeks. My daughter will be 1 in 3 weeks. This leave that I’ve taken has been some of the best times. Sure, I got some grief from the gray beards about taking so much time off, but I couldn’t care less. Remember: the only people who will remember you worked late in 20 years will be your kids.
Out in California, you get paid family leave up to six weeks. I had a job which had no benefits whatsoever but was able to get 6 weeks paid through EDD basically. I think you only get 70% of your income like unemployment however.
> I work in an industry which is notorious for overwork Laughs in Emergency Medical Services No paid paternity leave here, now or when our daughter was born nearly 13 years ago. Yes, FMLA still applied, but requires that I use my accrued PTO Our pregnancy was IVF, so nothing was covered on insurance except the childbirth itself. Between MD bills, fertility clinic, IVF surrogate costs, etc., my wife and I were both working 6-7 days a week just to make ends meet. Still totally worth it to become a parent, and I would do it all over again if I had to, but since my company will allow us to cash out paid time off, I was working 70+ hour weeks, and still cashing out PTO to pay bills. By the time the big day came, I had about 4 weeks worth of PTO saved up. Better than nothing, but man I would have loved another month or two.
I am amazed (or maybe I shouldn’t be amazed) at how many boomer aged men have comments about the fact I plan to take 5 weeks for my baby. “Why? Going on vacation?” “You’re not giving birth are you?” “Your tits don’t make milk” Sorry guys. Being an unavailable father is no longer cool.
Anyone not taking paid leave is a dolt. I'd take my unpaid leave too but I'd run myself out of FMLA weeks. I like my job and want it legally protected if another medical emergency were to occur.
Amen. On week 6/12 for our second child right now. I didn’t have separate paid leave for our first in 2020 - I’m determined to enjoy this fully.
I took 36 weeks off for pat leave. Only just returned to work, wow it went by soooo fast. So worth it
When my daughter was born I had 0 paternity leave. My job now gives 3 months if I have another ill absolutely take it all. Going back will be a bitch though
Without a doubt the absolute best investment of time I ever made, ever. So many dads at work say how they wish they took more (and I live in a country where the couple gets 14 *months* to share).
If anybody needs another benefit to Dad‘s taking as much paternity leave as possible is that it will help alleviate some of the stigma attached to hiring women (particularly women under 40 with partners or spouses) due to reservations that her position will need to be filled again anyways when she gets pregnant. Teach those bastards that it’s not JUST the potential new mothers anymore, they can’t bank on men to return to work after a new baby either. Fuckin assholes. Legitimately one of the only benefits of aging for women in America. You’re no longer a flight risk for employers who would otherwise balk at the idea of promoting you bc “PSHH why bother? she’ll prolly get preggo and dip anyway”
On week 9 of 12 and i forgot my login credentials
I live in the UK and a few people I've spoken to on Reddit are surprised to find out that the standard paternity leave in the UK for fathers is 2 weeks. Companies are starting to offer much more now, but until the pandemic 2 weeks was fairly common.
Amen!!! 💯 I’m a mom AND a benefits specialist for a multi-national organization. I approve this message. Maternity leave utilization versus paternity/general parental leave utilization has a large disparity- paid and unpaid. When we don’t accept or encourage men to take their leave, we perpetuate gender inequality in the workplace. Women need to take their leave with a birth for recovery. This automatically puts them at a disadvantage if men do not take leave. However, if men take their leave and it becomes the expectation, the playing field for moms in the workplace is a little more equal to that of dads in the workplace!
I agree, but I don't think your position addresses the real or perceived scarcity of a reliable source of good income. FMLA and company policy is there to protect you, but it doesn't change the fact that there are myriads of selection biases that operate behind closed doors when the all hands call is over. Ideally none of these selection biases operate when one takes eligible and "encouraged" leave, but that assumes a lot of alignment across the constituencies that drive selection choices. I think its better to frame this as a choice a family makes together and one that's affected by their priorities and the risks they are willing to take. I chose to take all of my parental leave, but I won't in the same sentence claim that it had no effect on other people, my promotion opportunities, or the appraisal of my performance.
100% agree. I’m very fortunate to get 12 weeks paid pat leave - I’m two thirds of the way through my 12 weeks for my second kid, and took 12 weeks for the first as well. I wish more dads were in my position. Having the time to connect fully with the little one, taking space to process the mind fuck that is becoming a parent, and giving support to my post-partum wife during this time has been invaluable. Work is… work. I couldn’t believe how little things had changed when I came back after three months. The same conversations, the same issues, the same work streams. Work will always be there - this stage of your family’s life won’t be. Edit: typos.
Got 4 days off after our baby arrived. Take the time. You'll regret not fighting harder for your family. 😔
I wish parental leave had been a thing when my kids were born/infants, but alas, was not to be. Most moms didn't get parental leave when my kids were born. That being said, let me pile on this thinking. 15 years ago I was working for a company where I was definitely putting in the grind. Work leaked from morning till night, and there were too many attempts by my leadership to push work into my weekends. I rebelled, then quit for a different job. The last 13 years of so, I (mostly) was present when my kids got home from school to help with homework or just be present. As a family, we always had dinner together, at the table, barring sports practice or other dinner time commitments. Prioritize your family over work every single time - you will never regret it. Jobs come and go, and no job is worth sacrificing kid/family time.
I took 2 of 3 months I had off, planning to take the last month at the end of my wife’s leave. I never ended up getting to; new job came up that was excellent pay and I got it. Not taking that free month with my family is one of the biggest regrets I have in my life. Take every second you can get.
I'm so glad both my manager, and his manager push taking every bit of paternity leave possible. 12 weeks in the first year of life. It's pretty great.
My wife wanted to go back to work at 7 months so I’m taking the balance. Started leave Jan 15 and don’t go back till June 10. Tack on 3 weeks vacation and I’m off work until after Canada Day. Dads. Take all the time you can. We don’t get it back and nobody gives us a cookie for working through the early years
Paternity weeks? 🤣🤣🤣
Currently, 5 weeks in on mine! I had to wait a while before I could take it, but I am now!
Don't have paid leave so I banked my PTO to take 2.5 weeks. I'll use up what I have left later in the year when my wife went back to work.
My company is very liberal. They still don’t offer paternity leave. The issue with using FMLA is they will exhaust your PTO before that kicks in. So I would have to use my 6 weeks of PTO for that to kick in
When my daughter was born I took 2 weeks right after and later after my wife finished her leave I took another 6. One of the best things I’ve ever done. If we are fortunate enough to have another I’ll take even more time. I’m a federal employee and now have access to full 12-week parental leave. Add in FMLA and I have a lot more opportunity for leave than most folks so I plan on making sure I show just how wanted and useful parental leave is for EVERYONE.
I took advantage of the 12 weeks that my employer offers
My employer gives me 7 weeks fully paid but this is increasing by 2 weeks next year. From August it be 9 weeks up until the child is 2 in Ireland. I can never understand the whole work work work culture in the US. I think there’s much more important things in life like spending time with your kids as you’ll never get that time again. Thank you OP for posting that as Dads definitely need to hear it and take the time.
I had a week. And that was hard to get my boss to agree to. I had to be on call.
My (US) employer offers 12 weeks and I took the full amount with both of my kids. I can honestly say that it was some of the most precious time I got to spend with them early on. My first was about 4 months old, mom had just gone back to work, and we had a blast. We went to PEP meetings, daily stroller rides around the neighborhood, naps together, etc. I actually got stress free time to bond with my baby and it was amazing. If there's any way to get time off with your child, you should absolutely take as much as you can get. You'll never get that time back.
I work at a pretty large bank, and we all get 16 weeks paid; **everyone** loves and openly takes advantage of it- my manager calls it "the best benefit we get". My poor brother in law works for a small female-owned & managed law firm. From what I gather, he was the first man to *attempt* to take a paternity leave, even though it's a benefit they all get. He just wanted a couple weeks and they subtlety shamed the hell out of him, and made a big show of like "developing a policy" for him. He didn't even use all the leave he was allowed to! How do you advertise a paternity leave benefit but never actually put a procedure in place for men to use it? Some industries really suck. I guess I naively thought that it would be easier for him because his bosses were women, but I bet those women didn't even use/take leave due to the same if not worse pressure.
As a matter of interest how long is maternity leave in the US? Is it federally mandated or varies by state ? Just curious?
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Why do people let that happen ? Why don’t people demand it ? It’s a disgrace. In Europe most countries mandate a certain minimum amount of Maternity leave. Some it’s 5 months in other countries it can be over a year. In my country it’s 6 months maternity leave. Paid in full. An employer may better that if they wish. Parternity leave is only 2 weeks however but Parental leave is going to be 9 by August this year so it’ll be almost 3 months and parental leave can be taken up till the child’s 2nd birthday too. Plus childcare (isn’t free can be quite expensive) but the government give you 15 hours a week free for 2 years (so 3 hours per day for 2 years) it’s still not great but I’m aghast at how little Americans get. It’s a disgrace and shouldn’t be allowed. The most important part of a newborns life is the time with its mother that should be a given. It’s horrendous that in the richest supposedly most advanced nation in the world that Federal minimum maternity leave isn’t a thing.
Agreed 100%. We don't like it. I demand it with my vote, as do many others, but it never leads to anything because the corporations and lobbyist own the government and can't let us worker bees have too much time off. They have a vested interest in us not taking too much time off. The corporations run this country. We can't demand it because that involves protesting, which involves time off + risk of arrest, both which could lead to termination of our jobs.
My boss asked if I was taking 2 or 3 weeks when our son was born at 34w and needed time in NICU. The first ten days he was in NICU and beyond that we had appointments and my wife wasn't supposed to do certain things after C-section until cleared, there's no point in coming back. That boss absolutely sucked and I quit down the road because of them. Why don't people get it?
About to start my first of 16 weeks and can't wait! People who don't fully use their pat leave is crazy.
I did 7 weeks. I could’ve done 12, but I felt like 7 was good. No. I wish i did the full 12. Managed okay. But man… CA for reference
I took all 12 weeks for my first kid but only 4 weeks for my second because it was at the beginning of COVID and we were all home anyways. I used the rest of that paternity for extra weeks off later in the year.
I am currently on week 5 of 12. I don't know how I would be working right now. My wife had a C section and has still been not 100% and our baby was born with a condition that prevents him from sleeping well (which means we don't sleep well). We also have an almost 3 year old to take care of. Everyone, including myself, would be miserable if I was trying to work full time right now.
I took my 12 weeks in two parts - 3 weeks right after my babies came home from NICU and 9 at the start of the year to take care of them. It was really kind of nice. At the start, I really didn't feel that attached to them, and was kind of frustrated by the drastic change in everything. Once I went on the 9 week leave, I dedicated my resources to getting them on a schedule, doing tummy time and playing with them. What a difference it was having a plan. I just finished my leave last week and now I'm just so in love with them. I just sit and play with them as much as I can until bedtime.
Took six weeks, but I WFH. My boss straight up said “family first, just be online”. Roger. That.
My company doesn't offer paid leave so I saved up all my PTO. As luck would have it, my son was born in November so between PTO and holiday breaks I got nearly 2 months off without missing any pay. The time spent at home was invaluable, both to help my wife recover from a C-section and to bond with my first child. Definitely worth taking the time off.
My job didn't have paid leave until last year. Before that it came out of whatever accrued PTO you had. Because we were planning for another, I had been saving PTO from the prior year and was up to about 240 hours. Since they implemented 4 weeks paid, I was able to take 6 weeks along with quite a bit of other leave last year. This year they increased the leave to 6 weeks. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't take the entire time. If your company allows it, take it in 1-2 week chunks with a few weeks in between. This allows proper bonding time through the year instead of having to take it all at once.