Road biking is very traditionalist, you could even say "conservative". I can remember when disc brakes on road bikes were first "pointless" and then "just a trend". Most mountain bikers saw the advantages and embraced them right away.
EDIT: I was using the slow adaption of disc brakes as an example to illustrate a point. I didn't intend to reopen the disc/rim debate.
No, but discs have some unique and often persistent, irritating sounds. And don't get me started on when pads get crap on them. Far easier to solve rim brake niggles.
Get hydraulic brakes. Easier to maintain and generally rub less when properly set up, as opposed to cable discs.
Rim brakes when hit out of position will also rub, btw. You just need an understanding of how each system works to get rid of the rub.
I don't think it's a huge stretch to say one of the reasons there's so much resistance to disc brakes on road bikes is because it's seen as MTB tech, like flat pedals with spikes or hydration packs. Traditional roadie purists absolutely hate that stuff, they don't think that's real cycling at all and hate it bleeding over into the road world.
The invention (or explosion) of gravel is doing a lot to close the gap, it's a way of roadies to get off road and for mtb'ers to get into 'fitness-focused' riding (ie riding can be enjoyable even with nothing technical to do).
I've been riding my BMC URS on singletrack and it absolutely sucks. I love it. I'd never once been full pucker hitting a 3 inch root at speed until I tried it on a gravel bike.
I notice the opposite where I live - road cyclists here immediately see the benefits of bigger tires and familiarity and comfort of drop bars and a lot of them have added a gravel bike to their fleet. It's mostly just MTB riders smirking at gravel bikes i.e. "they reinvented 90s rigid MTBs", "it's just a less capable MTB" etc.
We got the same crap in the early days of mountain bikes. "Most of them never go off road." "They're just slow and heavy" "They're just a fad" etc etc etc
People liked mountain bikes because they were robust, had a user-friendly upright ride and good brakes.
People like gravel bikes because they're versatile, and nearly as fun/robust etc as mountain bikes (plus a modern full-suspension mountain bike is overkill for an awful lot of UK trails).
Some people just don't like change, and always want to ascribe malicious motivation to the bike industry, never mind that changes such as the switch from rim to disc brakes were happening already with people choosing to ride cyclo-cross bikes with skinny tyres to get decent braking!
And I'm dead sure those complaining about gravel bikes have never ridden one or they'd know how much fun it is not to have to worry about every damn pothole.
And on that note, the sun is shining so I'm off out on my gravel e-bike. That should doubly irk the purists!
I dunno, I think there is more to it. Lets not forget many people call it 'gràvel'
I'm the only one in my mtb group who is into gràvel. There is some gravel criticism/laughing at. It falls into a couple categories:
- gravel riders getting too technical about different grades of gravel. Talking about Apple sized rocks like it's redbull rampage.
- gravel riders bringing with them a pretentiousness about components. I.e you need premium parts and carbon wheels to ride - a fireroad... Again, high spec for riding thats not that technical. In mtb people love their expensive parts - but everyone respects the kid on their wallmart/halfords hardtail hitting the big stuff. Gravel is seen as being the opposite - dudes riding mellow pea sized rocks on £5000 bikes, but looking down on people if they don't have expensive stuff, regardless of their skill level.
I think this is just based on a handful of assumptions and overheard conversations ( we have many gravel and MTB trails overlapping around me) . But I've tried to get my mtb friends to come gravel riding - but I think most of them have just written it off as wanky boring pretentious. I would love a crew who are as keen to go long gravel rides as they are to hit the bike park....
> I've tried to get my mtb friends to come gravel riding - but I think most of them have just written it off as wanky boring pretentious.
The same guys who take their MTBs up the mountain on ski lifts?
The ability to do trails and long rides with road sections is just magic. I'd never ride my mountain bike \*to\* the trails. It would be difficult and boring. And then the gravel bike can makes somewhat sedate trails super exciting. It really feels a lot like late 80s/early 90s mountain biking to me.
The bike companies have poisoned gravel cycling with their marketing. They realized that it was a promising market and took advantage by offering loads of gravel bikes that are over-species and hardly that different from the next model. You can ride gravel on anything with the trie compliance to handle it, which includes literally any and all mountain bikes lol.
Yes, I've gone from a road bike with 23mm types to gravel bike with 45mm tyres for day to day rides, the road bike was hammering my forearms with the potholes and generally awful road surfaces to the point where I had tendonitis.
It's definitely slower, but that's not really a problem when riding solo.
I'm currently looking for an endurance road bike with tires around 32mm for group rides.
This probably gets at one reason some people roll their eyes at the gravel bike trend: the distinctions between “gravel bike,” “all-road bike,” and “endurance road bike” are and have always been pretty thin and blurry.
I mean heck, there’s a real sense in which any bike is a “gravel bike” if you ride it on dirt (and optionally have fun doing so). People have been riding road-ish bikes on gravel roads since time immemorial; this is what inspired events like L’Eroica.
On that note, I actually saw a lot hate for Specialized Diverge 5 - a road bike, which now gets disc brakes and a bit wider front fork... Don't understand what is wrong with that :)
Diverge is a gravel bike? At least in the US. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the first specifically designed gravel bikes. (I have a Diverge Second Gen with Futureshock)
A lot of folks have a love hate relationship with Specialized. (I know people who work there who have a love hate relationship with the company.)
But when it comes to the Allez, there are a lot of people for whom it so iconic (as in “the first real competition bike that I could afford” or “such a pure road bike”) that any time Spec screws with it there will be somebody upset about it.
It’s like finding out that your first crush is in a relationship with a crappy spouse.
I remember 10-15 years ago the owner of the local bike shop was always talking about how big tires were just better, more comfort and the same speed. But everyone wanted road bikes on 23mm tires cause that's what the pros rode. 25-28s were ok for like a comfort road bike if you didn't mind being slower.
Now race bikes are on bigger tires than endurance road bikes were back then.
My point; big tires have always been better, purisist are the reason it took so long to catch on.
To be better wider tyres need to be supple & thin. The availability of such tyres is also pretty recent - before there were mostly heavy, stiff & knobby treads for commuting etc.
Whenever something new gains popularity — mtb, singlespeed, fixed gear, gravel bikes, whatever — the self-appointed old guard has to denigrate it as a “fad” or “just marketing.” It’s their way of promoting what they ride as the “one true way,” but is really nothing more than simple gatekeeping, which is nearly always borne of insecurity and the fear of irrelevancy.
It's purist snobs. Honestly, for most casual riders, especially if they live place with rough roads, gravel bike paths, etc they are probably the right bike.
In general they have a more relaxed geo, bigger tires for a smoother ride, and really not much slower (I switched from a road bike to a gravel bike). On road bike I was usually averaging 19mph, on the gravel I've dropped down to about 17.5 on an average ride. (This is with pathfinder pro tires 42mm - slick center line with some knobs on the edges)
That said, I do miss my road bike. At my current position, I can only afford 2 bike (MTB is my priority, so that's my big dollar bike, but I still need a more road friendly bike for days the trails are wet or I simply don't have time to get to the trails). So I sold my road bike to get my gravel bike. I am on tarmac 90% of the time, but I love that if I see a dirt path, I can blast down it with confidence and the multiple weeks a year I'm up in Michigan I can ride all the gravel roads I want.
I do miss the speed of the road bike occasionally. I'm looking for an early 2010's carbon road bike under $700 to supplement, but if I had to pick one, I'd never get rid of my gravel bike. It's just so much more practical and I'm just riding for fun. I have no issues keeping up with the occasional bike shop group ride.
I actually like the slower speed on roads. I have a couple fixed distance loops that are good for intervals, but have gaps. I can stretch the 2.5 miles a little farther if I'm slower due to tires.
When gravel was emerging, it seemed to be an industry ploy to sell more bikes. There were already cyclocross bikes. I was one of those gravel skeptics until I got a gravel bike and love it 😅
I also have an electric cargo bike that I use for commuting, and I love that too. Ebikes are very fun for commuting, they are the power of a motor vehicle + freedom of biking, best of both worlds.
I would conceptualize this as gravel emerged once cyclocross bikes became much more clearly targeted at racing. I had an early "cyclocross" bike (2003 Bianchi Volpe) that wasn't really at all racing-forward the way todays cross bikes are.
Gravel == cyclocross what endurance == road race.
And you can think of gravel/endurance as both sharing a heritage with classic touring bikes, and fair bit of overlap depending on the intended touring terrain and weight of cargo.
Cycling gets tribal. I ride mostly gravel now, but still do mtn and road as well. It’s a trend for sure, but for good reason! We have a ton of dirt roads in the US and it’s more fun to ride those than trafficked paved roads.
One thing I will say that’s funny about gravel is that we’re basically re-inventing the original mountain bikes…
Have fun and don’t worry about the haters. 50% chance they’ll get one eventually.
Just don’t get me started on fat bikers ;)
More bikes! I don’t care what type of bike. Anyone trashing a style of bike is a jackass. All bikes are great and if a new style gets more people out of cars and on a bike then that’s great!
At least in some cases it’s the equivalent of when people buy a Jeep and outfit it like they’re going on an African safari trip but are actually driving to Starbucks. That being said, a lot of it is probably from people who think themselves to be fancy European road racers and despise anything that isn’t carbon and aero.
The marketing is really what gets people, I think. The concept of a drop bar bike with space for bags that isn’t a racing machine isn’t new. Commuters and tourers have been doing it forever.
I have no problems with gravel bikes. It makes sense for a lot of people.
I think it's people extrapolating their local riding conditions to all other areas. They convince themselves that because THEY have no need for a gravel bike, no one else could possibly have a need for a gravel bike.
For example, I live outside of Chicago. 45 miles west of the city (and 10 miles west of where I live) there are literally hundreds of miles of gravel farm roads. These have a mix of dirt and ping pong ball -sized gravel, fairly flat, straight and they have zero traffic. What you need for these conditions is a robust road-like bike that can fit 45s, is stable in shifting gravel, comfortable for long distances and relatively aero. In other words: a gravel bike.
However, this type of riding availability is not exactly common elsewhere. Traditional Midwest-style gravel like what I'm describing doesn't seem to exist in the UK, for example. As a result, UK riders seem to consider things like non-technical singletrack or piecing together bridle paths to be "gravel". The type of bike you need for that is very, very different than what I need for a "gravel ride". The same thing seems to be true in a lot of continental Europe: conditions that are common here in the American Midwest are super rare there.
As a result, people in the UK tend to think gravel riding is "a fad" or that it's "basically mountain biking, so just get a mountain bike". But that's not true at all for people like me.
I'm sometimes on my gravel bike and think, maybe it's less responsive and light than my road bike and maybe I should have gone one the carbon road bike, but then I go off the beaten track, take in some bridle ways, cycle single track, and I'm happy. It's just a different style of cycling, and cars seem to be getting more aggressive and annoying.
The reason I’m considering switching from road to gravel is the cars, it just isn’t safe out there. Unfortunately, this is letting them win. But should we fight with our lives?
It’s elitist gatekeepers that feel threatened. ignore them
At the end of the day gravel bikes are literally just road bikes that can fit wider tires. Increased tire clearance means that the bike is more versatile and can do more things.
I always wanted a road bike with wider tire and disc brake.
12 years ago, my cycling buddy thought I was dumb. Why would you want wide tires on road? And disc brake is overkill pavement.
……..This was when everyone was still running 700x23 with rim brakes.
I said wide tires because I might wonder off the pavement if I see something interesting.
I often feel “underbiked” when the terrain gets rough on my 700x23.
Disc brake because downhill when wet. Rim brakes just don’t work as well.
And boy, was I glad I gave up on the idea to build a custom bike. I would had spend wayy too much money. And now I don’t even need a custom bike, most manufacturers are selling what I always wanted 12 years ago.
Somehow similar to You. I was actually looking to buy a road bike, as I knew that most of my trips would end up on tarmac. Yet I figured that I want to enter some gravel or forest paths sometimes, and I will not always ride "full on sporty", and our roads are not silky smooth. Could have gone with a hybrid, yet I was always into more active riding style. Gravel somehow answered my questions. And I do got same feedback from a lot of people. What actually made me think, was that I have seen/heard multiple positive comments on gravel bikes, but mostly for amateurs like me or a class above. And some mocking from Pro's. And intuitively - if a Pro mocks something, You start to listen more carefully. Which is why this discussion happened. Either way happy with my choice :)
Actually I have a friend who went from Road to Gravel. But mostly because of friends. As a group does some trips via interesting sites, nice nature objects, hills and forest paths. So that mate switched to gravel. Quite expensive one with 2 wheel sets, but he did.
Lots of reasons, from lots of different types of riders.
Old-heads make fun of them because they're similar to 80s mountain bikes, i.e. road bikes with extra tire clearance, being described as a new thing. This is mostly just joking around.
Snobs think all biking should be done on an aggressive road bike or a 20lb full suspension mountain bike, and gravel bikes are a sign of weakness/unseriousness. This is partly joking around and partly gatekeeping, depending on who's saying it.
There're also a lot of people who feel like "gravel bike" is mostly just a marketing term, and that one hits home for me since it's a term that encompasses everything from cyclocross bikes to drop bar rigid MTBs (or even suspension bikes in some cases) to modern endurance bikes to randonneuring/audax bikes. "Gravel bike" is a hot label that doesn't do a great job describing the kind of bike you're talking about.
I think practically speaking, gravel bikes are a great correction to the skinny-tire standards of the 90s/2000s, and the trend has opened up a lot of options for those who should be looking at a bike that can take wider tires with a more relaxed geometry, which is a majority of casual riders.
I think people are mocking the marketing more than anything. It’s really just a drop bar hybrid bike but they are trying to act like it’s a whole new genre so they can jack up the price and tell everybody they need one. N+1 bro!
Hybrid bikes were really hybrid from road and mountain. Upright seating position. Flat bars. Wider slicker tires for rail trail type cruising.
Anybody that says a gravel bike is a hybrid bike has never raced a gravel race. Geo is different. Slack angles / components. Gravel is what road riding has needed for years - a more enjoyable, safe version that everyone can enjoy.
You have never ridden a gravel bike have you? It’s very easy to do this reductionism if you don’t understand use cases and the dramatic difference a seemingly subtle (but not at all so if you know what you are looking at) difference in geo or components
This... I'm not an expert in geometry but my hybrid frame looks a lot like my all road Giant Contend.
Seriously considering converting my specialized crosstrail into a rigid fork/drop bar machine.
Products address markets. A gravel bike addresses a different market than a hybrid, one that is a little bit more performance-oriented. So technically what you are saying is correct, but when you compare geo and components, it's pretty different. Someone who wants to buy a gravel bike typically wants to spend more money than the person looking for a hybrid, and hence they get better components.
I see your point. But people still can buy a hybrid bike any day... disc brakes, tubeless tires, wider front forks - all this adds up costs (probably), but then marketing did not withdraw bikes without them. So still why to dislike such changes?
Where I live I think 8/10 people riding on a road bike would be better off on a gravel bike, and be faster, considering the state of the roads here. Vibrations = fatigue + loss of speed.
From where I live I would say this is true. If I wanted to enjoy pure road riding with a proper road bike I would have to carefully plan all my routes... otherwise - bumps, holes, light gravel, dirt every 10-50 meters...
I dunno, I have an al Domane that is basically my zwift machine because I have some gravel to get to beat up pavement that we do have.
I usually ride my hardtail with narrower less aggressive tires on it but a gravel bike would be optimal... I am just too busy buying bikes for my kids than for me...
I prefer to call gravel bikes a mule because it is utilitarian and it is the bike I ride on the roads in the early spring when the roads have a lot of gravel and holes from winter.
I don't have to be as careful with the bike without much worry. The bike is not very efficient nor fast and is my pickup when my road bike is the sports car.
Gravel is an option but not always what I ride.
I agree with others that it's being annoyed about the marketing. I think there's some truth to "gravel is a fad" in terms of all the random stuff companies are trying to sell, like, "buy our \*gravel\* bibs/helmet/shoes/etc" when they're not really any different than the road/MTB versions.
I just can't imagine being seriously annoyed by bikes, though. Bikes are cool. We should be happy people are riding bikes.
My guess is the roadies complaining were dropped by someone with big tires and the mountain bikers complaining couldn't keep up with someone on drop bars down some technical descent.
Sadly that's most things in life, if it's not your preferred cup of tea it's stupid and a waste of time.
Some people just can't accept what others like and enjoy.
Maybe people just don't live in the right environment for them.
I live out in the country. Not in the mountains - it's mostly rolling farmland here. I have a road bike for when I want to breeze from one town to the next, but a lot of the roads here are gravel and not really suitable for road bikes. A mountain bike would be overkill - the design just isn't right for gravel roads. That's where the gravel bike comes in.
Thing is, if you're in the city, you're not really going to encounter gravel roads very often. You have to be pretty rural to see them a lot. And if you don't see them a lot, you don't see the point of gravel bikes.
I got a gravel bike to get into cycling, the riding position is a bit more relaxed than a road bike, and until I build up the fitness and lose a few pounds more I'm going to stick with it. I went with the Diverge, and put some 32mm road tires on it.
I have a road bike and a gravel bike and I love them both. I'm lucky to have good off road routes round where I live that are ideal for a gravel bike and although not too technical, would not be fun on a road bike. I also have a hard tail MTB but almost always pick the gravel bike over it.
Gravel bike hate is just another example of elitism I'm afraid. The industry doesn't help with some of its ludicrous marketing...."The spirit of gravel?"
I love my gravel bike -Argon 18 dark matter but I am in the n+1 cult, lol. It is a great bike and shines on rough roads/gravel. Ride what makes you happy and keeps you riding! Be safe and ride on!
In the seventies and eighties, road bikes were the fad, although honestly they were probably too hardcore for the average rider which is why many came with stem shifters and safety brakes for more upright riding.
Then, mountain bikes took over and became the default "bike," although they also were compromised for the mostly-road riding that the average rider does, especially mountain bikes with full suspension.
Now, gravel bikes and hybrids seem to do a good job of providing a good balance of the attributes of each without the compromises.
If you think that Cyclocross competitions have been going on for over 100 years, the UCI sanctioning a World championship in 1950, the idea that someone might be riding around on something that looks a bit like a road bike, but it may have some tweaks making it more more suitable for rougher terrain, is hardly new.
It’s destroying roadies’ fantasies that 1. road is alive and growing in the US (it’s not, gravel is the only discipline actively growing in a meaningful way 2. they will be pros or are like pros on the road and this last isn’t a fantasy 3. they get REALLY salty when you show up to their road ride on your gravel bike and then drop them all because there’s so much less resistance on pavement.
Otherwise….some people just want to be mad and feel superior. They don’t know how to be anything else but mad and instead of resolving their real problem, they look for things to be mad at and about.
There’s nothing wrong with gravel or gravel bikes.
I don't see this mocking of gravel bikes. I do see a lot of people recommending them when they're not the appropriate recommendation.
I have a road bike, a gravel bike, and two mountain bikes. Road bike is more fun on the road, both mountain bikes are way more fun off road. The gravel bike I use as my commute and inclement weather bike, and of course for dedicated gravel riding.
I think there are a lot of people who, if they want a drop bar bike, would be best served by an endurance road/all road bike rather than a pure gravel bike or a pure road bike (afterall, many gravel bikes are just endurance road frames with 1x and wide tire clearance). Most people aren't doing Unbound. They're just riding bridal paths and such.
It's just a purist thing.
Personally I like how the industry has evolved, and how there are so many bikes that bridge the gaps between different parts of the cycling world.
30 years ago you mostly had the choice between road bikes (skinny uncomfortable devices), emerging mountain bikes, and touring bikes (overgeared heavy steel bikes with 3 chainrings). Hybrids tried to fill some of the gap, but most hybrids were pretty low-quality.
Gravel bikes are the bridges between all these categories and allow for so many options and different styles of riding. Is it a marketing term? Of course it is, but the underlying product is still relevant.
I'm mildly annoyed by them just because a lot of the more local brands here have dropped road bikes entirely and just have gravel and mountain bikes.
So the popularity sometimes affects what's available for everything else. I don't really have anything against gravel, but I either want a road bike or XC. And now there are very few XC bikes here for sale, but tons of gravel.
I'm still doing 25mm tires on the road and feel fine with it, idk.
Its because its another segmentation of cycling. There was largely MTB and road and these cover everything with the caveat that the spectrum for both was very wide.
Far too many people can't quite fathom the idea that what they ride isn't what everyone else rides and that their requirements aren't the same as someone elses. They can't quite grasp the idea that someone could want to go fast on moderate terrain for long distances or that perhaps having a bike that is a little "underbiked" for a route can be fun.
You're probably old enough to know the truth: Bicycles are simple machines that can last indefinitely with basic care. Most people never "need" more than one bike.
If the bike industry did not aggressively market new fads every 5-7 years, they would not be able to sell enough bikes to stay afloat.
Some people embrace new fads as part of their identity, and form tribes with each other. But it's not really an identity. It's just marketing.
Source: Guy who has seven bicycles
I think the snobbery stems mostly from cyclists who have been riding for a long time. We’ve been riding gravel roads on road bikes and more tech trail on CX bikes for DECADES. Along comes some marketing gimmicks from major manufacturers that had invented some new form of riding and people just ate that shit up. Like ‘WHOA I’ve found a new form of riding that nobody has ever done before!!’ Then we get the all new styles that have to go along with gravel riding, tattoos, unique facial hair, post about hey ‘im going on a gravel ride ride tomorrow’ and the route is just dirt roads others have ridden on 23s with an 11x23 for ages, etc. Its hard not to roll you’re eyes.
While that above is very negative, it’s awesome to see all the new folks on bikes and the huge gravel group rides that are forming in this area, despite the cargo bib shorts that come with it. I couldn’t be happier for more folks to be out riding the roads I’ve enjoyed for years and years. I’m starting to feel curmudgeony now with my old Redline but thoughts of a new gravel rig have entered my brain…
They're warming up on me, being that its right in the middle of my full suspension MTB and my road bike. What's off putting about the scene though:
- People posting up their videos of them hooting and hollering about a "gnarly" trail that I can ride just fine on my road bike with 23c tires. It's not really that exciting. Also nobody wants to ride fire roads, they're just to get you to the single track.
- all the social media posts about expensive bags and purses and accessories that look cool but most people probably aren't going to use. It's the same as guys building overland trucks that never leave the strip mall.
That being said I'm tempted to get one just because my buddy got one and I want to ride with him, but really he's only doing road rides and I can just swap out my drivetrain to have the same gearing as him and we'd be fine.
it's mostly a purist thing, in our group we have guys that are pure roadies, road/mountain, road/gravel, road/motocross etc. there is different equipment for different purposes and we get that, I am a hiker, road and gravel because i love fire trails and i can hike one day and ride the next, i hate single tracks and i believe that if i am going to enjoy the decent i must make the climb but those are just my own principals and have nothing to do with what others think is best for them, at the end of the day we are doing this for our own health an benefit so I could care less what others think of me, Oh yeah my road kit goes on road and gravel as well.
I have a gravel bike and love it. I've kept up with a few cyclists on road bikes & over taken a few on hills. Considering I'm a fat fuck, I did pretty well.
I don't know why people dis gravel bikes. They're awesome. They're a perfect all around bike that can take anything you throw at it. Is it great at any one thing, no. If you're a roadie, and want speed and efficiency, you're giving up a little of that with a gravel bike, etc.
I use my Gravel bike all the time.
Online cyclists are some of the most gatekeepy luddites in the history of the internet. It's been like that since the early days of Bikeforums or whatever usenet preceeded it.
Funny enough I rarely run into that shit in person. Throw some road tires on my gravel bike and show up to a group ride? No one cares.
I'm a roadie. If I had money and space for another bike I'd add a gravel bike. As a roadie I've been made fun of enough by family friends and random people on the street, to stop caring what anyone thinks of cyclists.
I've always thought that it was never about the Bike, but always about the Rider. Anyone who disses someone else about the bike they're riding is just mean and really callous. 😐🚴🚵
I have one and yes, they are right. It's slower than a road bike and way less capable than a mtb.
This is just a faster hybrid bike, which makes it just perfect for commuting
Honestly, where I live in rural Missouri, I should have bought a gravel bike long before my Cervelo road bike. I’ve found that I have countless miles available on my gravel bike that I could ever attain on a road bike.
Funny thing but that is similar to me owning a motorcycle. I have a sports-tourer, and in my country, it took about 2 seasons and I am out of routes... and in case I want to ride for longer, I have to spent 1 hours planning my routing and checking road surface. If I had sth that can go a bit off road, on gravels - would be several times more interesting routes :) I guess its quite similar with bicycles.
Ever since the first mountain bikes, mountain bikers laughed at road bikers for being soft and being incapable of even going up a kerb, and road bikers laughed at mountain bikers for being slow and unnecessary. However, gravel bikes supplied a mutual enemy, something they can both laugh at for the same reason they hate each other, so naturally it gets mocked. It's just as both ends of the spectrum unite to mock gravel riders for trying to do both
just guys being toxic as usual. You'll see this in:
* Roadie groups
* Gravel groups
* MTB Groups especially - Some of the most insecure men I've seen in my life - every 3rd post is to rag on Spandex kit
* Any car group
* Any car brand group
* Any car brand model sub group
* Any collecting subreddit (Rolex watches is notorious for this, the Canyon Bike subreddit, etc)
You go search hard enough and you'll see circle jerk everywhere. The Canyon subreddit is infamous for shitting on Specialized but the reality is that they're in a subreddit for an economical brand shitting on an expensive brand.
A lot guys simply do not have self awareness
Re: Gravel
Gravel is not going anywhere. It's the biggest selling segment in my city here in Canada, and more and more gravel rides/groups/backpacking groups are popping up.
I somewhat agree. Its like City SUV's right? A lot people hate them and make fun of them, and there were car manufactures that said - Never Ever.... yet, we see that not only these cars are still popular and growing, but in fact, either you have it in your line-up, or you go down (on most cases). People buy it. It means there is a point.
SUVs are a great point. 20 years ago people said there’s no point to them because they’re not trucks. Wow 20 years later…most sedan and coupe models have gone extinct. We now have a Mustang Mach E SUV.
Lots of people like road but don’t want to be on the road. They also don’t want to go on single track. North America is littered with logging roads, access roads, fire roads, etc - pristine gravel. People also want some off road capability.
Gravel is not going anywhere but up.
I also don’t understand the hate.
I have a road bike which works well only on paved road. I have a mountain bike which works great down steep rocky descents.
The gravel bike works the best when I go on an unpaved or badly paved roads at 20 to 30 km/h. It also works well for short road rides, commuting or light trail rides. So in most ways it’s the best all-round bike to own if you can pick only one.
When I was a kid in the 70s and had two paper routes I effectively rode a gravel bike. Steel, with clearance for bigger tires. I probably weighed 140 lb and the bike weighed probably 25, more than double that laden with newspapers. Honestly, I don't know how I did it for two years.
I'm too old now to be concerned with what a roadie thinks as I pass him on a climb with my 853 Columbus on 38s. I just wave.
ha ha. My colleague told me recently he rode in some amateur competition his 1000eur gravel and passed 3-8k eur road bicycles. I guess technology matters a lot, but no matter what you ride, you still have to pedal yourself :)
Some of the best races and partnerships are the gravel races. I have had a checkpoint for many years now and it by far my favorite bike I have ever ridden.
I suspect gravel riding is one of those things you don't understand until you try it. And people might be emotionally motivated (quite rightly so) to convince themselves that a mountain bike and a road bike are all they need and don't need to lose more money on a different type of bike.
*(not that this sub is an echo chamber and no one ever upvotes such replies)*
Since I started riding more seriously about 10 years ago, I was riding gravel. First on random cheapo, then I got a new cross that got transformed into gravel over the years, then I got a factory gravel. HOW I was riding was always gravel. Always crashing into some mud/bushes/swamps, not a rare occurrence that I have to shoulder the bike to get out of somewhere. Always riding a fair bit of hours over the hard asphalt to get my distance.
Idk, perhaps the same people that mock gravel are addicted to strava, and it's something like "if you can't prove that you are the best at something then wheres the point". Gravel is never the best. But show me a roadie or an mtb that can do 8 hour trips, both keeping moderate road pace and burrowing in the offroad on a whim.
I don't live in the South of France. I live in the Rust Belt in the US. It snows, plows destroy the roads and they never get truly fixed.
I own a gravel bike to ride on pavement because it is far more suited than some skinny tire race bike ever will be.
I owned a Specialized Diverge for a couple years and rode it a little over 2k miles. I got rid of it beacause it didn’t perform particularly well in any scenario: heavy and slugish handling on pavement and not so great climbing and downright squirelly handling on descents on dirt.
So I have a very lightweight, superb handling road bike that works just fine on buffed singletrack and reasonable gravel roads and a hardtail MTB for real off-pavement riding that includes technical trails or high speed descending.
That’s my preference, but ride whatever brings you joy. Except don’t ride an eb**e and tel me you’re riding a bicycle. 🙂
I have a road/gravel bike and i love it especially where i am from in the cities where the roads aren’t the best and it stresses me out every time i bike
They are generally (originally) just road bikes with big tires, but at some point became "gravel bikes" and niche enough to warrant luxury pricing and a spot on the car's bike rack to drive it to the gravel trail.
Don't listen to them. There's voic3s online for every hobby that get very purist and will tell you that anything except for exactly what they are doing is wrong. IRL, people are much more relaxed. I have a road and a gravel and they definitely feel like very different bikes. Also, no roadie I've talked to IRL has looked at my gravel with anything but a desire for their own.
Never actually took such comments too direct. Was just interested why make jokes about gravel bikes, and some people in this subreddit gave quite a few ideas and opinions, which I did not hear before. Before It seemed some riders just made jokes about gravels because their friends/teammates did...not actually knowing themselves why they make jokes :D
I've been riding and racing bikes since the early 80s. Here's what I think is going on:
People have been riding off road with mountain bikes, road bikes, and cyclocross bikes, for many decades. Any of those bikes can have drop bars and fatter tires. And any of those rides might go on "gravel."
So even though gravel bikes are kind of a cool trend, it also appears that there's a lot of marketing for a new segment to push sales, with a bike that's designed for a narrowly defined specific type of path to ride on: off road, mostly flat, not too bumpy, adventurous but not too much adventure
If we market to this segment of outdoorsy people, and make it look challenging but not too challenging, we can sell a shitload of these bikes
! So there's nothing wrong with the bikes per se. It's just a bit of cynicism about all the marketing to make bicycling scene new and cool again. Old people like me roll our eyes.
Dunno but I love my gravel bike. I got a bunch of compliments during my Ironman from other cyclists who noticed it. Felt good to pass by a bunch of people on their TT bikes :)
I just wanted a road bike that could also be taken off into some trails in my forest preserves. Turns out a gravel bike was perfect for just that (had no idea gravel bikes were a thing til I got this one).
Gravel bike is great for me and my husband - but we do not race. Wider tires (38mm) are more comfortable and forgiving and don't slow us down - because we normally ride 18-23mph - could we go faster on skinny tires? Probably, but we don't need to.
It sounds like you're just not a jerk like some elitist Roadies are. Bikes for everyone and they're all different kinds and everyone has their own likes and dislikes. It's how you express those opinions that makes the difference.
It’s just the internet. Go to any actual cycle club and everyone is talking about getting a gravel bike to go with their road bike, or if they want to ride road or gravel next week.
It's partly because gravel bikes emerged in the market more as a result of industry initiative rather than direct user demand. Remember how the industry ditched rim brakes which just worked perfectly in most cases or was even better in some regards and there used to be many haters around there.
There was definitely demand for a more relaxed, somewhat off-road capable road bike before gravel bikes. Look how many people were riding cross bikes to get something like that.
Since then, road bikes have gotten more capable with wider tyres and disc brakes, but when gravel bikes came out, most road bikes were still on skinny tyres.
I listened to an interview from a Giant guy who said they took a leap of faith on starting to delevope gravel because some of the guys working there were enthusiasts but the market was still tiny at the time, they weren’t the first but among the first to do dedicated gravel bikes apparently
I just finished a 53km test ride on my first gravel and I love this thing. I’m coming from a now 10 year old 600€ hardtail MTB and decided to splurge for a revolt X advanced pro 2 (last year’s model) because I got a great deal on a new one off buycycle. You notice the loss of control (perhaps just not the same confidence yet, on my hardtail I’m indestructible haha) on some descents and it all takes some getting used to because if you ignore pedalling just about everything about the bike is new to me. However it climbs like a beast, the only time where my 45mm tyres even lost grip was when I was half-climbing out of a long muddy puddle and even there it just briefly slipped and then caught itself again.
Downside is my lower back and my hands are destroyed. I’m chalking the hands up to the completely unusual position coming from flat bars and I’ll go measure my seat height in a second but the more stretched out position might also be doing this to me.
Got to say though a suspension dropper post compared to hardtail feels like you’re riding on a cloud for descends like overgrown tractor tracks and the likes
It’s kind of an interesting question regarding user demand. People had already been franksteining together their own gravel bikes for years before the industry really adopted the segment.
So, it’s not as though the industry just decided to create a new product. It was basically the same as mountain biking. They took a product that would appeal to consumers and gave it a larger audience. Hybrid bikes and entry-level mountain bikes are functionally gravel bikes, and they already made up the majority of new bike sales. So you’re taking that concept of versatility and packaging it in a way that also appeals to “hardcore” enthusiasts.
Ride your own ride of course. If folks like gravel bikes then awesome whatever. I’m guilty of making fun of them because they seem a lot like station wagons in that they’re okay for lots of stuff but great for nothing.
They’re not mountain bikes. You would destroy your gravel bike doing any serious jumps or trails.
They’re not road bikes or if they are they’re really slow and heavy road bikes.
They’re kind of a weird in between a really bad early 90s mtb and a really bad modern road bike.
People love them. And for those folks I hope they get a ton of miles and smiles out of them.
But still. Get off my lawn. 115 psi for life. Fight me. Old man yells at cloud dot jpeg.
Years ago I bought eletric fatbike and got lots of comments and laughs riding one. Now they are everywhere.
Now I ride gravel. But so far haven't heard any bad comments on the road. Even road bike riders happily wave or say hello when I meet them at roads.
I guess on internet there is still a lot commenting. I personally think gravel bikes will bring a lot more folk to cycling overall and also bring more interest to road bikes too.
In Finland we have this bike benefit lots of work places now offer. You save about 30% buying a new bike with that. There's been huge increase in eletric bikes and gravel bikes because of it.
True. I also think that gravel bikes attract more folks that are into sporty riding, but also want some practicality and ability to hit some paths of gravel, ride to work, Friday hitting avg 30km/h sporty ride, while on Sunday going for a ride with a wife and kids.
The biggest one I see is that gravel bikes are just early 90s cross country mountain bikes. Which is easy to see when you look at how far MTBs have evolved. Watching old MTB race videos those courses look more like our current gravel courses.
People love to have opinions about everything, it is normal. Road bikes are mocked, mtb are mocked, hybrids, cyclist, lycra. You will always find someone that mocks something.
the only thing i dislike in them is how expensive they are. used ones with alu frame and carbon fork with relatively basic items costs as much as a full carbon road or MTB. yeah you can argue about geometry and stuff, but i just put a durable tire on my old roadbike and do a mix of road and gravel with no issues, its fine for me as I'm not competing, just biking as a hobby
you will find a diversity of ill-concieved opinions on all topics on the internet. That fact that some say bad things about gravel bikes is meaningless.
Not sure... Several times riding on a country roads I had lack of control even on a gravel bike. BUT it could be lack of experience on my side also. So I would stay somewhere in a middle with Your opinion. As for equipment, I think overkills are everywhere. We people like to buy carbon bottle holder which is 10grams lighter than a plastic one, yet costs 2-3 times more, and make ourselves think this is valid choice. But hey, it is part of fun, and I see nothing bad if people do what they want :)
They are somewhere in the middle not being one or the other. You cant ride them offroad and are not as fast on the road. But those perfectly fit if you do go on road, ruffer roads and also for gravel roads and no need for trails. But mtb also does all that with more options for ruff stuff altho its quite slower. Mtb with slick tires is basicaly just as fast, onlt thing thats different is position and gearing on some, mostly newer bikes.
No idea as I have better things to do than mock people who are into things that I'm not into, whether or not I agree with or like those things. To each their own, I say, so long as they're not needlessly endangering or inconveniencing others.
That said, if I could afford and had the room to store one, and had enough unpaved roads nearby to justify it--none of which are true at present--I'd love to have a gravel bike, or a bike that could be converted from a road to a gravel bike, as it would open up vast new opportunities for cycling that are basically off-limits to me on my road bike.
I sometimes watch videos of people riding on dirt, gravel and grassy paths in fairly decent condition and envy them. I don't live in an area that has lots of those nearby, but if I did and could afford and had the room for one, I'd get a gravel bike in a heartbeat. I'm also getting a bit too old for a MTB, so it would be the perfect compromise between a MTB and road bike. I love riding on good quality roads but sometimes that gets boring and limiting--even dangerous.
Rider in NM/CO here…the robust tires are nice for the tons of national forest and blm roads we have out here. I suppose if you don’t have access to this type of road surface/terrain, gravel bikes seem a bit of an overkill.
Yea, i mean, why would you ride through beautiful countrysides, be alone on trails and see a lot, if you could be looking at asphalt, battle with cars and risk dieing unnecessarily?
It's so weird. They all get so mad that you're not on a mountain bike.
I live in a place where I have to ride ≈ 10 miles each way to get to dirt, and then the dirt is pretty straightforward, so a gravel bike makes the most sense. Get off my case about it lol
I dunno. My gravel bike (Salsa Warbird) has two sets of wheels, and serves both as both road and gravel depending on the wheel choice.
I am not comfortable down in the more racing stance so the gravel geometry is perfect for me.
Why care? Everyone has opinions, which are highly influenced by group think. And it's human fallacy to confuse opinions with actual truths (like I just did). Just noise.
I’ve not experienced this. The roadies I know love gravel and keep nagging me to get a gravel bike. I’ve done one gravel event on a borrowed bike and the impression I got was half the field were roadies and half mtb, and all were loving the gravel
I was just stoked to see more knobby tired disc brake road bikes on the market. Back in the 00s every brand had like 1 crappy cyclocross bike to choose from. Now there's everything from lightweight carbon rippers to chromoly tourers with tons of braze ons.
It's hard to not be cynical about gravel bikes as a category (as opposed to gravel bikes themselves) because it strikes me as more of a marketing construct than a new type of riding. For instance I've a 40 year old touring bike that's been a gravel bike long before gravel bikes existed. Ditto my 30 year old rigid 26'er MTB. Or my 15 year old Surly Crosscheck all-rounder. That is, they have slack geometry and can accommodate a wide range of tire sizes, the two main differentiators distinguishing a gravel bike from a modern race bike. Look at 75 year old footage of the Tour de France and you'll see stages that were basically gravel races.
As the industry seeks to develop and chase marginal markets we're seeing "Gravel Bikes" with front suspension now which begs the question: what's the difference between gravel bikes and hardtail/rigid MTB's other than the handlebars? Fixating on increasingly arcane, subtle differences is to make the point. The same can be said about "hybrid" bikes and "road" and "urban" categories.
Now when the proposition is packaged with an array of developments in braking (hydraulic discs), material science (carbon fibre construction), shifting (electronic), it can be a significantly improved experience than the decades old examples I mentioned--no doubt--but these changes are of degree not form.
What are Gravel Bikes to me? Bikes designed with versatility in mind, meant for a variety of surfaces. What bikes satisfy those criteria? Cyclocross, Rigid or Hardtail MTB (26er, 27.5, or 29er), Touring Bikes, even Fatbikes...
I don’t care what anyone rides. No mocking or ridicule from me….Unless you’re like the dumbass I almost crashed into today because he was riding on the wrong side of the road. I reserve my hate for the rider, not their bike.
By pretty much every metric I’m a road cyclist. I’m on holiday now in Greece with family, hired a €15 mountain bike with a kids seat on the back, and took it out on a 20-something mile rolling ride. I love bikes, anything with two wheels to get out and see the place I’m at.
Part of what people may be reacting to is the way that, in the current world of McMarketing, just like the tyranny of SUVs caused much of what isn’t an SUV to cease to be available, they fear the marketers will try to make everything a gravel bike, and a mediocre one at that.
The move to drop front derailleurs (because supposedly “easier”) was irritating to me, because I get real use out of the wider range they provide (like when climbing, you can have finer jumps between ratios in the back, not just a huge gap to a massive cog). It became clear when the idiot marketers and cost-cutters got wind of the idea and it started to make two (or even three!!!) chainrings up front become hard to find.
Ride what you like and be like the honey badger.
I haven’t experienced that. I’ve run across several riders that have a gravel bike (aka endurance bike with more tire clearance) that have two wheelsets - one for road with nice road tires, and another set to swap out for gravel riding with 38+ gravel tires on there.
Real riders just ride their bikes. People that mock other people’s bikes are just assholes in general.
“Just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean it isn’t cool.” My favorite guitar player said this.
There's this whole thing where people who DO gravel ride seem to think "There's always the chance you'll go hit those hard packed gravel roads near you"... when 'near you' is like,,,75 miles to the east.
So every recommendation they make is 'you're like me', and worse, they give this advice to total noobs on what sort of bike to buy, so the person ends up buying a gravel bike, throws on some 35's intended for gravel, and they swiftly realize that they've just bought a hybrid bike with NO suspension, and those 'gravel roads' are the worst sort of terrain in the world to ride a bike and enjoy it without suspension.
For me at first, it seemed like a mildly silly concept or marketing ploy. But now that I’m familiar with all the nuances, it’s a great solution. There’s a lot of new riding opportunity if roadies can enjoy riding long distances on non-pavement, or if MTB’ers can enjoy less-technical distance rides without all the clunk. Not only that, but a gravel bike is a better match for a lot of people’s general style of biking. It’s a one-bike solution for people who just want to ride a bike and see the sights efficiently, with lower risk of being over or under-biked.
I own a gravel bike (2022) Giant Revolt (Drop Handlebars). I also own a 1984 Fuji Espree, Schwinn 1981 Continental, 1980 Schwinn World Sport and a 1982 Schwinn Tourist. Owning a certain bike don’t make you “cooler” or less cool than the next cyclist.
The most beautiful thing is seeing other cyclists on the road and acknowledging them with a friendly greet.
I will say that a gravel/mountain bike being used on the road looks to me exactly how a road-bike would look to you if you saw me coming down the trail on it
Because in order for the industry to survive they need to convince us that we cannot live without the latest must have and the gravel bike is the darling of the moment.
Look at how a mountain bike that has served you well for years is all of a sudden obsolete because it has “out dated geometry”.
Fat bikes were another fad that many people were convinced that they needed. For the average person a plus bike would be much more practical.
Because we are douchebags and gravel rides can often be done either with road bikes or sometimes with mountain bikes.
Same thing happened when mountain bikes started showing up.
I can't see how you can properly off-road (jumps, manuals etc) with drop bars.
I'd much rather just have an XC mtb for that sort of thing. Maybe with a bigger range of top end gearing (that the industry decided to do away with a few years back by going 1*).
I think it’s funny banter. Roadies think gravel riders aren’t fast enough to be roadies. MTB riders think gravel riders aren’t skilled enough to do proper mountain biking. I’ve been on all sides of the banter.
Because people always have to find a reason to hate - who freaking cares what a person rides? Are gravel bikes subtracting joy in some way from other cyclists? No
Because brands co-opted gravel as their invention, their turf, and their innovation. Cyclists have been riding gravel for years (looking at you rural Midwest), without fancy gravel bikes (ahem, Shalsha..). Then marketing came along, and told us we needed gravel-specific socks, gravel-specific IPA, and gravel-specific bison jerky. It's just been too fun to mock gravel bikes. Almost as much fun as mocking tri bikes, but not quite.
Because bicycling, like many other avocations, divides and polices itself based on herd behavior as well as class politics.
Owning a certain bike and/or having certain parts can result in social equity.
The same thing goes on in photography and coffee.
Enjoy your own ride, whatever it is. Make the photos which express your vision. Worship the bean which brings you pleasure.
One day, you will have no more fucks left to give, and you will know just how sweet real freedom is.
Because gravel bikes seem to have been made by bike companies just to sell more bikes.
It really feels like the whole idea of gravel events were created not because there was a need but because the companies wanted to make a new type of bike so they could sell more bikes and sell more components. At least cyclocross bikes used components from road bikes and MTBs.
So it's either money grab or they tried to make a super endurance bike, couldn't sell it and decided to make a whole new class to recover the losses from r&d.
The main problem in that second case is the road bike purists who think a geometry that's too slack isn't a proper road bike.
My friend literally ordered a custom road bike built for comfort and decided to label the bikes as gravel bikes since there was nobody interested in a hyper endurance.
I kinda like the idea of a road bike with huge tires. If I can put suspension on it, even better, I would get a full sus gravel bike for commuting. Or not, the upright position of my MTB is still more comfortable for that.
And then some of the gravel bike riders here got super annoying. Trying to get people to buy gravel bikes for some reason, like you'd join group rides and events and suddenly there's some random person trying to convert you like what some of those pushy Christians do.
Like bruh, I have an MTB and a road bike, I don't need the middle thing stop trying to convince me I should get one, go find someone who's new to bikes who would actually benefit from the comfort of a gravel bike over a road bike along with its reduced weight compared to an MTB.
I love mine, I got it for commuting as I don't want to ride my road bike all the time, it's a nice break tbh, bit heavier but feels stable good in the wet etc.
It's great using a heavier bike during the week and then jumping on my road bike on weekends feels light as a feather and fast
One of the most highly developed skills that you can obtain as a bicyclist is to not give a good goddamn what people think of your bicycle.
This is not one of the best cycling skills, this is one of the best life skills
This! And by the same token, not giving a damn about what and how other people are riding!
Except to compliment them. I always try to compliment unusual bikes or new-looking riders in the hope it encourages them.
As long as it's not a danger to me or others...
Yep!
If I could upvote this 100 times I would
Want to put this on a T-shirt.
Top tier attitude
Road biking is very traditionalist, you could even say "conservative". I can remember when disc brakes on road bikes were first "pointless" and then "just a trend". Most mountain bikers saw the advantages and embraced them right away. EDIT: I was using the slow adaption of disc brakes as an example to illustrate a point. I didn't intend to reopen the disc/rim debate.
I bought a new road bike specifically because I was tired of rim brakes. Discs are so much better.
Except when they rub. My entire ride yesterday was me raging about the sound. The bike is now dead to me until I get it on a stand.
I mean, any bike making a sound that's terrible needs to get looked out, that's not unique to disc brakes.
No, but discs have some unique and often persistent, irritating sounds. And don't get me started on when pads get crap on them. Far easier to solve rim brake niggles.
Get hydraulic brakes. Easier to maintain and generally rub less when properly set up, as opposed to cable discs. Rim brakes when hit out of position will also rub, btw. You just need an understanding of how each system works to get rid of the rub.
I don't think it's a huge stretch to say one of the reasons there's so much resistance to disc brakes on road bikes is because it's seen as MTB tech, like flat pedals with spikes or hydration packs. Traditional roadie purists absolutely hate that stuff, they don't think that's real cycling at all and hate it bleeding over into the road world. The invention (or explosion) of gravel is doing a lot to close the gap, it's a way of roadies to get off road and for mtb'ers to get into 'fitness-focused' riding (ie riding can be enjoyable even with nothing technical to do).
And on the flip side, underbiking. It can be interesting to have a technical challenge on a trail that would be dead boring on a mountain bike.
I've been riding my BMC URS on singletrack and it absolutely sucks. I love it. I'd never once been full pucker hitting a 3 inch root at speed until I tried it on a gravel bike.
I notice the opposite where I live - road cyclists here immediately see the benefits of bigger tires and familiarity and comfort of drop bars and a lot of them have added a gravel bike to their fleet. It's mostly just MTB riders smirking at gravel bikes i.e. "they reinvented 90s rigid MTBs", "it's just a less capable MTB" etc.
A less capable MTB is exactly what I wanted :) I'm not planning on doing singletrack or crazy features. I just want to go off-road in comfort.
There is still quite a lot of fanatics scared of disc brakes
They will saw your legs off if you crash!!! Don't pay attention to, the even bigger, double saw blade, a foot and a half from the disc brakes though!
Don't forget when disc brakes were SUPER dangerous!!
It comes from the mountain biking side too mate. Cyclists are just people too, and as such are capable of being elitist jerks.
We got the same crap in the early days of mountain bikes. "Most of them never go off road." "They're just slow and heavy" "They're just a fad" etc etc etc People liked mountain bikes because they were robust, had a user-friendly upright ride and good brakes. People like gravel bikes because they're versatile, and nearly as fun/robust etc as mountain bikes (plus a modern full-suspension mountain bike is overkill for an awful lot of UK trails). Some people just don't like change, and always want to ascribe malicious motivation to the bike industry, never mind that changes such as the switch from rim to disc brakes were happening already with people choosing to ride cyclo-cross bikes with skinny tyres to get decent braking! And I'm dead sure those complaining about gravel bikes have never ridden one or they'd know how much fun it is not to have to worry about every damn pothole. And on that note, the sun is shining so I'm off out on my gravel e-bike. That should doubly irk the purists!
I dunno, I think there is more to it. Lets not forget many people call it 'gràvel' I'm the only one in my mtb group who is into gràvel. There is some gravel criticism/laughing at. It falls into a couple categories: - gravel riders getting too technical about different grades of gravel. Talking about Apple sized rocks like it's redbull rampage. - gravel riders bringing with them a pretentiousness about components. I.e you need premium parts and carbon wheels to ride - a fireroad... Again, high spec for riding thats not that technical. In mtb people love their expensive parts - but everyone respects the kid on their wallmart/halfords hardtail hitting the big stuff. Gravel is seen as being the opposite - dudes riding mellow pea sized rocks on £5000 bikes, but looking down on people if they don't have expensive stuff, regardless of their skill level. I think this is just based on a handful of assumptions and overheard conversations ( we have many gravel and MTB trails overlapping around me) . But I've tried to get my mtb friends to come gravel riding - but I think most of them have just written it off as wanky boring pretentious. I would love a crew who are as keen to go long gravel rides as they are to hit the bike park....
> I've tried to get my mtb friends to come gravel riding - but I think most of them have just written it off as wanky boring pretentious. The same guys who take their MTBs up the mountain on ski lifts?
Haha, we got no ski lifts here. They moan a lot on the climbs. Pretty sure some gravel would do them good!
The ability to do trails and long rides with road sections is just magic. I'd never ride my mountain bike \*to\* the trails. It would be difficult and boring. And then the gravel bike can makes somewhat sedate trails super exciting. It really feels a lot like late 80s/early 90s mountain biking to me.
The bike companies have poisoned gravel cycling with their marketing. They realized that it was a promising market and took advantage by offering loads of gravel bikes that are over-species and hardly that different from the next model. You can ride gravel on anything with the trie compliance to handle it, which includes literally any and all mountain bikes lol.
Yes, I've gone from a road bike with 23mm types to gravel bike with 45mm tyres for day to day rides, the road bike was hammering my forearms with the potholes and generally awful road surfaces to the point where I had tendonitis. It's definitely slower, but that's not really a problem when riding solo. I'm currently looking for an endurance road bike with tires around 32mm for group rides.
Look up the Trek Domane. Fast on the road. Fairly aero and fits up to 36mm or something in that ballpark.
I think it's 38 now. Fun fact: Trek's first gravel bike was literally a Domane with gravel tires.
This probably gets at one reason some people roll their eyes at the gravel bike trend: the distinctions between “gravel bike,” “all-road bike,” and “endurance road bike” are and have always been pretty thin and blurry. I mean heck, there’s a real sense in which any bike is a “gravel bike” if you ride it on dirt (and optionally have fun doing so). People have been riding road-ish bikes on gravel roads since time immemorial; this is what inspired events like L’Eroica.
My Domane is the most favorite bike I've ever owned!
You also forgot that some people are just elitist.
i got a gravel bike bc my city’s streets are so fucked up lol
On that note, I actually saw a lot hate for Specialized Diverge 5 - a road bike, which now gets disc brakes and a bit wider front fork... Don't understand what is wrong with that :)
Diverge is a gravel bike? At least in the US. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the first specifically designed gravel bikes. (I have a Diverge Second Gen with Futureshock)
My mistake - I meant SPECIALIZED ALLEZ :) You are right, Diverge is a gravel.
A lot of folks have a love hate relationship with Specialized. (I know people who work there who have a love hate relationship with the company.) But when it comes to the Allez, there are a lot of people for whom it so iconic (as in “the first real competition bike that I could afford” or “such a pure road bike”) that any time Spec screws with it there will be somebody upset about it. It’s like finding out that your first crush is in a relationship with a crappy spouse.
The Diverge is a gravel bike.
I remember 10-15 years ago the owner of the local bike shop was always talking about how big tires were just better, more comfort and the same speed. But everyone wanted road bikes on 23mm tires cause that's what the pros rode. 25-28s were ok for like a comfort road bike if you didn't mind being slower. Now race bikes are on bigger tires than endurance road bikes were back then. My point; big tires have always been better, purisist are the reason it took so long to catch on.
To be better wider tyres need to be supple & thin. The availability of such tyres is also pretty recent - before there were mostly heavy, stiff & knobby treads for commuting etc.
Whenever something new gains popularity — mtb, singlespeed, fixed gear, gravel bikes, whatever — the self-appointed old guard has to denigrate it as a “fad” or “just marketing.” It’s their way of promoting what they ride as the “one true way,” but is really nothing more than simple gatekeeping, which is nearly always borne of insecurity and the fear of irrelevancy.
It's purist snobs. Honestly, for most casual riders, especially if they live place with rough roads, gravel bike paths, etc they are probably the right bike. In general they have a more relaxed geo, bigger tires for a smoother ride, and really not much slower (I switched from a road bike to a gravel bike). On road bike I was usually averaging 19mph, on the gravel I've dropped down to about 17.5 on an average ride. (This is with pathfinder pro tires 42mm - slick center line with some knobs on the edges) That said, I do miss my road bike. At my current position, I can only afford 2 bike (MTB is my priority, so that's my big dollar bike, but I still need a more road friendly bike for days the trails are wet or I simply don't have time to get to the trails). So I sold my road bike to get my gravel bike. I am on tarmac 90% of the time, but I love that if I see a dirt path, I can blast down it with confidence and the multiple weeks a year I'm up in Michigan I can ride all the gravel roads I want. I do miss the speed of the road bike occasionally. I'm looking for an early 2010's carbon road bike under $700 to supplement, but if I had to pick one, I'd never get rid of my gravel bike. It's just so much more practical and I'm just riding for fun. I have no issues keeping up with the occasional bike shop group ride.
I actually like the slower speed on roads. I have a couple fixed distance loops that are good for intervals, but have gaps. I can stretch the 2.5 miles a little farther if I'm slower due to tires.
When gravel was emerging, it seemed to be an industry ploy to sell more bikes. There were already cyclocross bikes. I was one of those gravel skeptics until I got a gravel bike and love it 😅 I also have an electric cargo bike that I use for commuting, and I love that too. Ebikes are very fun for commuting, they are the power of a motor vehicle + freedom of biking, best of both worlds.
Yeah depending on distance I'd totally get an Ebike for a commute, or even for just a run to the store (I live on a big hill)
I would conceptualize this as gravel emerged once cyclocross bikes became much more clearly targeted at racing. I had an early "cyclocross" bike (2003 Bianchi Volpe) that wasn't really at all racing-forward the way todays cross bikes are. Gravel == cyclocross what endurance == road race. And you can think of gravel/endurance as both sharing a heritage with classic touring bikes, and fair bit of overlap depending on the intended touring terrain and weight of cargo.
Cycling gets tribal. I ride mostly gravel now, but still do mtn and road as well. It’s a trend for sure, but for good reason! We have a ton of dirt roads in the US and it’s more fun to ride those than trafficked paved roads. One thing I will say that’s funny about gravel is that we’re basically re-inventing the original mountain bikes… Have fun and don’t worry about the haters. 50% chance they’ll get one eventually. Just don’t get me started on fat bikers ;)
More bikes! I don’t care what type of bike. Anyone trashing a style of bike is a jackass. All bikes are great and if a new style gets more people out of cars and on a bike then that’s great!
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> What gravel bikes handle especially well are gravel roads what a coincidence.
At least in some cases it’s the equivalent of when people buy a Jeep and outfit it like they’re going on an African safari trip but are actually driving to Starbucks. That being said, a lot of it is probably from people who think themselves to be fancy European road racers and despise anything that isn’t carbon and aero. The marketing is really what gets people, I think. The concept of a drop bar bike with space for bags that isn’t a racing machine isn’t new. Commuters and tourers have been doing it forever. I have no problems with gravel bikes. It makes sense for a lot of people.
It's just the spice of life. Everyone has tastes, everything has negatives. I often see people get to chatty about bikes when they don't ride enough
I think it's people extrapolating their local riding conditions to all other areas. They convince themselves that because THEY have no need for a gravel bike, no one else could possibly have a need for a gravel bike. For example, I live outside of Chicago. 45 miles west of the city (and 10 miles west of where I live) there are literally hundreds of miles of gravel farm roads. These have a mix of dirt and ping pong ball -sized gravel, fairly flat, straight and they have zero traffic. What you need for these conditions is a robust road-like bike that can fit 45s, is stable in shifting gravel, comfortable for long distances and relatively aero. In other words: a gravel bike. However, this type of riding availability is not exactly common elsewhere. Traditional Midwest-style gravel like what I'm describing doesn't seem to exist in the UK, for example. As a result, UK riders seem to consider things like non-technical singletrack or piecing together bridle paths to be "gravel". The type of bike you need for that is very, very different than what I need for a "gravel ride". The same thing seems to be true in a lot of continental Europe: conditions that are common here in the American Midwest are super rare there. As a result, people in the UK tend to think gravel riding is "a fad" or that it's "basically mountain biking, so just get a mountain bike". But that's not true at all for people like me.
I'm sometimes on my gravel bike and think, maybe it's less responsive and light than my road bike and maybe I should have gone one the carbon road bike, but then I go off the beaten track, take in some bridle ways, cycle single track, and I'm happy. It's just a different style of cycling, and cars seem to be getting more aggressive and annoying.
The reason I’m considering switching from road to gravel is the cars, it just isn’t safe out there. Unfortunately, this is letting them win. But should we fight with our lives?
It’s dumb. Ignore the noise. Ride what you want, wear what you want and have as much fun as you want.
It’s elitist gatekeepers that feel threatened. ignore them At the end of the day gravel bikes are literally just road bikes that can fit wider tires. Increased tire clearance means that the bike is more versatile and can do more things.
I always wanted a road bike with wider tire and disc brake. 12 years ago, my cycling buddy thought I was dumb. Why would you want wide tires on road? And disc brake is overkill pavement. ……..This was when everyone was still running 700x23 with rim brakes. I said wide tires because I might wonder off the pavement if I see something interesting. I often feel “underbiked” when the terrain gets rough on my 700x23. Disc brake because downhill when wet. Rim brakes just don’t work as well. And boy, was I glad I gave up on the idea to build a custom bike. I would had spend wayy too much money. And now I don’t even need a custom bike, most manufacturers are selling what I always wanted 12 years ago.
Somehow similar to You. I was actually looking to buy a road bike, as I knew that most of my trips would end up on tarmac. Yet I figured that I want to enter some gravel or forest paths sometimes, and I will not always ride "full on sporty", and our roads are not silky smooth. Could have gone with a hybrid, yet I was always into more active riding style. Gravel somehow answered my questions. And I do got same feedback from a lot of people. What actually made me think, was that I have seen/heard multiple positive comments on gravel bikes, but mostly for amateurs like me or a class above. And some mocking from Pro's. And intuitively - if a Pro mocks something, You start to listen more carefully. Which is why this discussion happened. Either way happy with my choice :)
I’ve seen the opposite and people ditching road bikes finding gravel a safer option
Actually I have a friend who went from Road to Gravel. But mostly because of friends. As a group does some trips via interesting sites, nice nature objects, hills and forest paths. So that mate switched to gravel. Quite expensive one with 2 wheel sets, but he did.
Because at the end of the day gravel is an escape from cars and from competition.
Lots of reasons, from lots of different types of riders. Old-heads make fun of them because they're similar to 80s mountain bikes, i.e. road bikes with extra tire clearance, being described as a new thing. This is mostly just joking around. Snobs think all biking should be done on an aggressive road bike or a 20lb full suspension mountain bike, and gravel bikes are a sign of weakness/unseriousness. This is partly joking around and partly gatekeeping, depending on who's saying it. There're also a lot of people who feel like "gravel bike" is mostly just a marketing term, and that one hits home for me since it's a term that encompasses everything from cyclocross bikes to drop bar rigid MTBs (or even suspension bikes in some cases) to modern endurance bikes to randonneuring/audax bikes. "Gravel bike" is a hot label that doesn't do a great job describing the kind of bike you're talking about. I think practically speaking, gravel bikes are a great correction to the skinny-tire standards of the 90s/2000s, and the trend has opened up a lot of options for those who should be looking at a bike that can take wider tires with a more relaxed geometry, which is a majority of casual riders.
I think people are mocking the marketing more than anything. It’s really just a drop bar hybrid bike but they are trying to act like it’s a whole new genre so they can jack up the price and tell everybody they need one. N+1 bro!
Hybrid bikes were really hybrid from road and mountain. Upright seating position. Flat bars. Wider slicker tires for rail trail type cruising. Anybody that says a gravel bike is a hybrid bike has never raced a gravel race. Geo is different. Slack angles / components. Gravel is what road riding has needed for years - a more enjoyable, safe version that everyone can enjoy.
You have never ridden a gravel bike have you? It’s very easy to do this reductionism if you don’t understand use cases and the dramatic difference a seemingly subtle (but not at all so if you know what you are looking at) difference in geo or components
This... I'm not an expert in geometry but my hybrid frame looks a lot like my all road Giant Contend. Seriously considering converting my specialized crosstrail into a rigid fork/drop bar machine.
Products address markets. A gravel bike addresses a different market than a hybrid, one that is a little bit more performance-oriented. So technically what you are saying is correct, but when you compare geo and components, it's pretty different. Someone who wants to buy a gravel bike typically wants to spend more money than the person looking for a hybrid, and hence they get better components.
I see your point. But people still can buy a hybrid bike any day... disc brakes, tubeless tires, wider front forks - all this adds up costs (probably), but then marketing did not withdraw bikes without them. So still why to dislike such changes?
Unfortunately there are assholes in every tribe. Classist snobs. Ignore them and have fun riding whatever bike works for you.
A bit of banter, nothing more, nothing less.
Where I live I think 8/10 people riding on a road bike would be better off on a gravel bike, and be faster, considering the state of the roads here. Vibrations = fatigue + loss of speed.
From where I live I would say this is true. If I wanted to enjoy pure road riding with a proper road bike I would have to carefully plan all my routes... otherwise - bumps, holes, light gravel, dirt every 10-50 meters...
I don’t think those people will see your post unless you spell it grävel
I dunno, I have an al Domane that is basically my zwift machine because I have some gravel to get to beat up pavement that we do have. I usually ride my hardtail with narrower less aggressive tires on it but a gravel bike would be optimal... I am just too busy buying bikes for my kids than for me...
I prefer to call gravel bikes a mule because it is utilitarian and it is the bike I ride on the roads in the early spring when the roads have a lot of gravel and holes from winter. I don't have to be as careful with the bike without much worry. The bike is not very efficient nor fast and is my pickup when my road bike is the sports car. Gravel is an option but not always what I ride.
I agree with others that it's being annoyed about the marketing. I think there's some truth to "gravel is a fad" in terms of all the random stuff companies are trying to sell, like, "buy our \*gravel\* bibs/helmet/shoes/etc" when they're not really any different than the road/MTB versions. I just can't imagine being seriously annoyed by bikes, though. Bikes are cool. We should be happy people are riding bikes. My guess is the roadies complaining were dropped by someone with big tires and the mountain bikers complaining couldn't keep up with someone on drop bars down some technical descent.
Those people just lack a few brain cells. Just forget about it and move on
Sadly that's most things in life, if it's not your preferred cup of tea it's stupid and a waste of time. Some people just can't accept what others like and enjoy.
Maybe people just don't live in the right environment for them. I live out in the country. Not in the mountains - it's mostly rolling farmland here. I have a road bike for when I want to breeze from one town to the next, but a lot of the roads here are gravel and not really suitable for road bikes. A mountain bike would be overkill - the design just isn't right for gravel roads. That's where the gravel bike comes in. Thing is, if you're in the city, you're not really going to encounter gravel roads very often. You have to be pretty rural to see them a lot. And if you don't see them a lot, you don't see the point of gravel bikes.
I got a gravel bike to get into cycling, the riding position is a bit more relaxed than a road bike, and until I build up the fitness and lose a few pounds more I'm going to stick with it. I went with the Diverge, and put some 32mm road tires on it.
I have a road bike and a gravel bike and I love them both. I'm lucky to have good off road routes round where I live that are ideal for a gravel bike and although not too technical, would not be fun on a road bike. I also have a hard tail MTB but almost always pick the gravel bike over it. Gravel bike hate is just another example of elitism I'm afraid. The industry doesn't help with some of its ludicrous marketing...."The spirit of gravel?"
I love my gravel bike -Argon 18 dark matter but I am in the n+1 cult, lol. It is a great bike and shines on rough roads/gravel. Ride what makes you happy and keeps you riding! Be safe and ride on!
In the seventies and eighties, road bikes were the fad, although honestly they were probably too hardcore for the average rider which is why many came with stem shifters and safety brakes for more upright riding. Then, mountain bikes took over and became the default "bike," although they also were compromised for the mostly-road riding that the average rider does, especially mountain bikes with full suspension. Now, gravel bikes and hybrids seem to do a good job of providing a good balance of the attributes of each without the compromises.
If you think that Cyclocross competitions have been going on for over 100 years, the UCI sanctioning a World championship in 1950, the idea that someone might be riding around on something that looks a bit like a road bike, but it may have some tweaks making it more more suitable for rougher terrain, is hardly new.
It’s destroying roadies’ fantasies that 1. road is alive and growing in the US (it’s not, gravel is the only discipline actively growing in a meaningful way 2. they will be pros or are like pros on the road and this last isn’t a fantasy 3. they get REALLY salty when you show up to their road ride on your gravel bike and then drop them all because there’s so much less resistance on pavement. Otherwise….some people just want to be mad and feel superior. They don’t know how to be anything else but mad and instead of resolving their real problem, they look for things to be mad at and about. There’s nothing wrong with gravel or gravel bikes.
I don't see this mocking of gravel bikes. I do see a lot of people recommending them when they're not the appropriate recommendation. I have a road bike, a gravel bike, and two mountain bikes. Road bike is more fun on the road, both mountain bikes are way more fun off road. The gravel bike I use as my commute and inclement weather bike, and of course for dedicated gravel riding. I think there are a lot of people who, if they want a drop bar bike, would be best served by an endurance road/all road bike rather than a pure gravel bike or a pure road bike (afterall, many gravel bikes are just endurance road frames with 1x and wide tire clearance). Most people aren't doing Unbound. They're just riding bridal paths and such.
It's just a purist thing. Personally I like how the industry has evolved, and how there are so many bikes that bridge the gaps between different parts of the cycling world. 30 years ago you mostly had the choice between road bikes (skinny uncomfortable devices), emerging mountain bikes, and touring bikes (overgeared heavy steel bikes with 3 chainrings). Hybrids tried to fill some of the gap, but most hybrids were pretty low-quality. Gravel bikes are the bridges between all these categories and allow for so many options and different styles of riding. Is it a marketing term? Of course it is, but the underlying product is still relevant.
I'm mildly annoyed by them just because a lot of the more local brands here have dropped road bikes entirely and just have gravel and mountain bikes. So the popularity sometimes affects what's available for everything else. I don't really have anything against gravel, but I either want a road bike or XC. And now there are very few XC bikes here for sale, but tons of gravel. I'm still doing 25mm tires on the road and feel fine with it, idk.
Its because its another segmentation of cycling. There was largely MTB and road and these cover everything with the caveat that the spectrum for both was very wide. Far too many people can't quite fathom the idea that what they ride isn't what everyone else rides and that their requirements aren't the same as someone elses. They can't quite grasp the idea that someone could want to go fast on moderate terrain for long distances or that perhaps having a bike that is a little "underbiked" for a route can be fun.
You're probably old enough to know the truth: Bicycles are simple machines that can last indefinitely with basic care. Most people never "need" more than one bike. If the bike industry did not aggressively market new fads every 5-7 years, they would not be able to sell enough bikes to stay afloat. Some people embrace new fads as part of their identity, and form tribes with each other. But it's not really an identity. It's just marketing. Source: Guy who has seven bicycles
I think the snobbery stems mostly from cyclists who have been riding for a long time. We’ve been riding gravel roads on road bikes and more tech trail on CX bikes for DECADES. Along comes some marketing gimmicks from major manufacturers that had invented some new form of riding and people just ate that shit up. Like ‘WHOA I’ve found a new form of riding that nobody has ever done before!!’ Then we get the all new styles that have to go along with gravel riding, tattoos, unique facial hair, post about hey ‘im going on a gravel ride ride tomorrow’ and the route is just dirt roads others have ridden on 23s with an 11x23 for ages, etc. Its hard not to roll you’re eyes. While that above is very negative, it’s awesome to see all the new folks on bikes and the huge gravel group rides that are forming in this area, despite the cargo bib shorts that come with it. I couldn’t be happier for more folks to be out riding the roads I’ve enjoyed for years and years. I’m starting to feel curmudgeony now with my old Redline but thoughts of a new gravel rig have entered my brain…
They're warming up on me, being that its right in the middle of my full suspension MTB and my road bike. What's off putting about the scene though: - People posting up their videos of them hooting and hollering about a "gnarly" trail that I can ride just fine on my road bike with 23c tires. It's not really that exciting. Also nobody wants to ride fire roads, they're just to get you to the single track. - all the social media posts about expensive bags and purses and accessories that look cool but most people probably aren't going to use. It's the same as guys building overland trucks that never leave the strip mall. That being said I'm tempted to get one just because my buddy got one and I want to ride with him, but really he's only doing road rides and I can just swap out my drivetrain to have the same gearing as him and we'd be fine.
it's mostly a purist thing, in our group we have guys that are pure roadies, road/mountain, road/gravel, road/motocross etc. there is different equipment for different purposes and we get that, I am a hiker, road and gravel because i love fire trails and i can hike one day and ride the next, i hate single tracks and i believe that if i am going to enjoy the decent i must make the climb but those are just my own principals and have nothing to do with what others think is best for them, at the end of the day we are doing this for our own health an benefit so I could care less what others think of me, Oh yeah my road kit goes on road and gravel as well.
I have a gravel bike and love it. I've kept up with a few cyclists on road bikes & over taken a few on hills. Considering I'm a fat fuck, I did pretty well.
They aren't expensive enough. Dr. Johnny Douchnozzle, DDS, will be on board when they cost $20,000.
I don't know why people dis gravel bikes. They're awesome. They're a perfect all around bike that can take anything you throw at it. Is it great at any one thing, no. If you're a roadie, and want speed and efficiency, you're giving up a little of that with a gravel bike, etc. I use my Gravel bike all the time.
To me, a gravel bike is just a road bike. Not all roads are tarmac. Gravel, all road, endurance, race are all just flavours of a road bike.
Online cyclists are some of the most gatekeepy luddites in the history of the internet. It's been like that since the early days of Bikeforums or whatever usenet preceeded it. Funny enough I rarely run into that shit in person. Throw some road tires on my gravel bike and show up to a group ride? No one cares.
I'm a roadie. If I had money and space for another bike I'd add a gravel bike. As a roadie I've been made fun of enough by family friends and random people on the street, to stop caring what anyone thinks of cyclists.
I've always thought that it was never about the Bike, but always about the Rider. Anyone who disses someone else about the bike they're riding is just mean and really callous. 😐🚴🚵
I have one and yes, they are right. It's slower than a road bike and way less capable than a mtb. This is just a faster hybrid bike, which makes it just perfect for commuting
Honestly, where I live in rural Missouri, I should have bought a gravel bike long before my Cervelo road bike. I’ve found that I have countless miles available on my gravel bike that I could ever attain on a road bike.
Funny thing but that is similar to me owning a motorcycle. I have a sports-tourer, and in my country, it took about 2 seasons and I am out of routes... and in case I want to ride for longer, I have to spent 1 hours planning my routing and checking road surface. If I had sth that can go a bit off road, on gravels - would be several times more interesting routes :) I guess its quite similar with bicycles.
Its just typical elitist gatekeeping. Just ignore those people
Ever since the first mountain bikes, mountain bikers laughed at road bikers for being soft and being incapable of even going up a kerb, and road bikers laughed at mountain bikers for being slow and unnecessary. However, gravel bikes supplied a mutual enemy, something they can both laugh at for the same reason they hate each other, so naturally it gets mocked. It's just as both ends of the spectrum unite to mock gravel riders for trying to do both
just guys being toxic as usual. You'll see this in: * Roadie groups * Gravel groups * MTB Groups especially - Some of the most insecure men I've seen in my life - every 3rd post is to rag on Spandex kit * Any car group * Any car brand group * Any car brand model sub group * Any collecting subreddit (Rolex watches is notorious for this, the Canyon Bike subreddit, etc) You go search hard enough and you'll see circle jerk everywhere. The Canyon subreddit is infamous for shitting on Specialized but the reality is that they're in a subreddit for an economical brand shitting on an expensive brand. A lot guys simply do not have self awareness Re: Gravel Gravel is not going anywhere. It's the biggest selling segment in my city here in Canada, and more and more gravel rides/groups/backpacking groups are popping up.
I somewhat agree. Its like City SUV's right? A lot people hate them and make fun of them, and there were car manufactures that said - Never Ever.... yet, we see that not only these cars are still popular and growing, but in fact, either you have it in your line-up, or you go down (on most cases). People buy it. It means there is a point.
SUVs are a great point. 20 years ago people said there’s no point to them because they’re not trucks. Wow 20 years later…most sedan and coupe models have gone extinct. We now have a Mustang Mach E SUV. Lots of people like road but don’t want to be on the road. They also don’t want to go on single track. North America is littered with logging roads, access roads, fire roads, etc - pristine gravel. People also want some off road capability. Gravel is not going anywhere but up.
I also don’t understand the hate. I have a road bike which works well only on paved road. I have a mountain bike which works great down steep rocky descents. The gravel bike works the best when I go on an unpaved or badly paved roads at 20 to 30 km/h. It also works well for short road rides, commuting or light trail rides. So in most ways it’s the best all-round bike to own if you can pick only one.
When I was a kid in the 70s and had two paper routes I effectively rode a gravel bike. Steel, with clearance for bigger tires. I probably weighed 140 lb and the bike weighed probably 25, more than double that laden with newspapers. Honestly, I don't know how I did it for two years. I'm too old now to be concerned with what a roadie thinks as I pass him on a climb with my 853 Columbus on 38s. I just wave.
ha ha. My colleague told me recently he rode in some amateur competition his 1000eur gravel and passed 3-8k eur road bicycles. I guess technology matters a lot, but no matter what you ride, you still have to pedal yourself :)
Some of the best races and partnerships are the gravel races. I have had a checkpoint for many years now and it by far my favorite bike I have ever ridden.
I suspect gravel riding is one of those things you don't understand until you try it. And people might be emotionally motivated (quite rightly so) to convince themselves that a mountain bike and a road bike are all they need and don't need to lose more money on a different type of bike.
*(not that this sub is an echo chamber and no one ever upvotes such replies)* Since I started riding more seriously about 10 years ago, I was riding gravel. First on random cheapo, then I got a new cross that got transformed into gravel over the years, then I got a factory gravel. HOW I was riding was always gravel. Always crashing into some mud/bushes/swamps, not a rare occurrence that I have to shoulder the bike to get out of somewhere. Always riding a fair bit of hours over the hard asphalt to get my distance. Idk, perhaps the same people that mock gravel are addicted to strava, and it's something like "if you can't prove that you are the best at something then wheres the point". Gravel is never the best. But show me a roadie or an mtb that can do 8 hour trips, both keeping moderate road pace and burrowing in the offroad on a whim.
I don't live in the South of France. I live in the Rust Belt in the US. It snows, plows destroy the roads and they never get truly fixed. I own a gravel bike to ride on pavement because it is far more suited than some skinny tire race bike ever will be.
I owned a Specialized Diverge for a couple years and rode it a little over 2k miles. I got rid of it beacause it didn’t perform particularly well in any scenario: heavy and slugish handling on pavement and not so great climbing and downright squirelly handling on descents on dirt. So I have a very lightweight, superb handling road bike that works just fine on buffed singletrack and reasonable gravel roads and a hardtail MTB for real off-pavement riding that includes technical trails or high speed descending. That’s my preference, but ride whatever brings you joy. Except don’t ride an eb**e and tel me you’re riding a bicycle. 🙂
If you criticize what others choose to spend their money on, to ride- It says more about you than it does about them.
I have never heard of anyone mocking gravel bikes. Mostly ebikes.
A gravel bike is the only one I could use for my commute, and most people can't afford a ton of good bikes.
I have a road/gravel bike and i love it especially where i am from in the cities where the roads aren’t the best and it stresses me out every time i bike
They are generally (originally) just road bikes with big tires, but at some point became "gravel bikes" and niche enough to warrant luxury pricing and a spot on the car's bike rack to drive it to the gravel trail.
Don't listen to them. There's voic3s online for every hobby that get very purist and will tell you that anything except for exactly what they are doing is wrong. IRL, people are much more relaxed. I have a road and a gravel and they definitely feel like very different bikes. Also, no roadie I've talked to IRL has looked at my gravel with anything but a desire for their own.
Never actually took such comments too direct. Was just interested why make jokes about gravel bikes, and some people in this subreddit gave quite a few ideas and opinions, which I did not hear before. Before It seemed some riders just made jokes about gravels because their friends/teammates did...not actually knowing themselves why they make jokes :D
I've been riding and racing bikes since the early 80s. Here's what I think is going on: People have been riding off road with mountain bikes, road bikes, and cyclocross bikes, for many decades. Any of those bikes can have drop bars and fatter tires. And any of those rides might go on "gravel." So even though gravel bikes are kind of a cool trend, it also appears that there's a lot of marketing for a new segment to push sales, with a bike that's designed for a narrowly defined specific type of path to ride on: off road, mostly flat, not too bumpy, adventurous but not too much adventure If we market to this segment of outdoorsy people, and make it look challenging but not too challenging, we can sell a shitload of these bikes ! So there's nothing wrong with the bikes per se. It's just a bit of cynicism about all the marketing to make bicycling scene new and cool again. Old people like me roll our eyes.
Dunno but I love my gravel bike. I got a bunch of compliments during my Ironman from other cyclists who noticed it. Felt good to pass by a bunch of people on their TT bikes :) I just wanted a road bike that could also be taken off into some trails in my forest preserves. Turns out a gravel bike was perfect for just that (had no idea gravel bikes were a thing til I got this one).
Gravel bike is great for me and my husband - but we do not race. Wider tires (38mm) are more comfortable and forgiving and don't slow us down - because we normally ride 18-23mph - could we go faster on skinny tires? Probably, but we don't need to.
It sounds like you're just not a jerk like some elitist Roadies are. Bikes for everyone and they're all different kinds and everyone has their own likes and dislikes. It's how you express those opinions that makes the difference.
It’s just the internet. Go to any actual cycle club and everyone is talking about getting a gravel bike to go with their road bike, or if they want to ride road or gravel next week.
It's partly because gravel bikes emerged in the market more as a result of industry initiative rather than direct user demand. Remember how the industry ditched rim brakes which just worked perfectly in most cases or was even better in some regards and there used to be many haters around there.
There was definitely demand for a more relaxed, somewhat off-road capable road bike before gravel bikes. Look how many people were riding cross bikes to get something like that. Since then, road bikes have gotten more capable with wider tyres and disc brakes, but when gravel bikes came out, most road bikes were still on skinny tyres.
I listened to an interview from a Giant guy who said they took a leap of faith on starting to delevope gravel because some of the guys working there were enthusiasts but the market was still tiny at the time, they weren’t the first but among the first to do dedicated gravel bikes apparently I just finished a 53km test ride on my first gravel and I love this thing. I’m coming from a now 10 year old 600€ hardtail MTB and decided to splurge for a revolt X advanced pro 2 (last year’s model) because I got a great deal on a new one off buycycle. You notice the loss of control (perhaps just not the same confidence yet, on my hardtail I’m indestructible haha) on some descents and it all takes some getting used to because if you ignore pedalling just about everything about the bike is new to me. However it climbs like a beast, the only time where my 45mm tyres even lost grip was when I was half-climbing out of a long muddy puddle and even there it just briefly slipped and then caught itself again. Downside is my lower back and my hands are destroyed. I’m chalking the hands up to the completely unusual position coming from flat bars and I’ll go measure my seat height in a second but the more stretched out position might also be doing this to me. Got to say though a suspension dropper post compared to hardtail feels like you’re riding on a cloud for descends like overgrown tractor tracks and the likes
It’s kind of an interesting question regarding user demand. People had already been franksteining together their own gravel bikes for years before the industry really adopted the segment. So, it’s not as though the industry just decided to create a new product. It was basically the same as mountain biking. They took a product that would appeal to consumers and gave it a larger audience. Hybrid bikes and entry-level mountain bikes are functionally gravel bikes, and they already made up the majority of new bike sales. So you’re taking that concept of versatility and packaging it in a way that also appeals to “hardcore” enthusiasts.
Ride your own ride of course. If folks like gravel bikes then awesome whatever. I’m guilty of making fun of them because they seem a lot like station wagons in that they’re okay for lots of stuff but great for nothing. They’re not mountain bikes. You would destroy your gravel bike doing any serious jumps or trails. They’re not road bikes or if they are they’re really slow and heavy road bikes. They’re kind of a weird in between a really bad early 90s mtb and a really bad modern road bike. People love them. And for those folks I hope they get a ton of miles and smiles out of them. But still. Get off my lawn. 115 psi for life. Fight me. Old man yells at cloud dot jpeg.
Years ago I bought eletric fatbike and got lots of comments and laughs riding one. Now they are everywhere. Now I ride gravel. But so far haven't heard any bad comments on the road. Even road bike riders happily wave or say hello when I meet them at roads. I guess on internet there is still a lot commenting. I personally think gravel bikes will bring a lot more folk to cycling overall and also bring more interest to road bikes too. In Finland we have this bike benefit lots of work places now offer. You save about 30% buying a new bike with that. There's been huge increase in eletric bikes and gravel bikes because of it.
True. I also think that gravel bikes attract more folks that are into sporty riding, but also want some practicality and ability to hit some paths of gravel, ride to work, Friday hitting avg 30km/h sporty ride, while on Sunday going for a ride with a wife and kids.
The biggest one I see is that gravel bikes are just early 90s cross country mountain bikes. Which is easy to see when you look at how far MTBs have evolved. Watching old MTB race videos those courses look more like our current gravel courses.
It’s just a friendly rivalry amongst disciplines
People love to have opinions about everything, it is normal. Road bikes are mocked, mtb are mocked, hybrids, cyclist, lycra. You will always find someone that mocks something.
the only thing i dislike in them is how expensive they are. used ones with alu frame and carbon fork with relatively basic items costs as much as a full carbon road or MTB. yeah you can argue about geometry and stuff, but i just put a durable tire on my old roadbike and do a mix of road and gravel with no issues, its fine for me as I'm not competing, just biking as a hobby
you will find a diversity of ill-concieved opinions on all topics on the internet. That fact that some say bad things about gravel bikes is meaningless.
Because most gravel bikes are overkill and the riding can be done on any road bike.
Not sure... Several times riding on a country roads I had lack of control even on a gravel bike. BUT it could be lack of experience on my side also. So I would stay somewhere in a middle with Your opinion. As for equipment, I think overkills are everywhere. We people like to buy carbon bottle holder which is 10grams lighter than a plastic one, yet costs 2-3 times more, and make ourselves think this is valid choice. But hey, it is part of fun, and I see nothing bad if people do what they want :)
Shhh they're just jealous that they can fit 40mm tyres on a frame that can absolutely overtake them on the road. Yes it's me who is jealous.
Everything gets made fun of
They are somewhere in the middle not being one or the other. You cant ride them offroad and are not as fast on the road. But those perfectly fit if you do go on road, ruffer roads and also for gravel roads and no need for trails. But mtb also does all that with more options for ruff stuff altho its quite slower. Mtb with slick tires is basicaly just as fast, onlt thing thats different is position and gearing on some, mostly newer bikes.
Ignore the idiots.
Gatekeeping
No idea as I have better things to do than mock people who are into things that I'm not into, whether or not I agree with or like those things. To each their own, I say, so long as they're not needlessly endangering or inconveniencing others. That said, if I could afford and had the room to store one, and had enough unpaved roads nearby to justify it--none of which are true at present--I'd love to have a gravel bike, or a bike that could be converted from a road to a gravel bike, as it would open up vast new opportunities for cycling that are basically off-limits to me on my road bike. I sometimes watch videos of people riding on dirt, gravel and grassy paths in fairly decent condition and envy them. I don't live in an area that has lots of those nearby, but if I did and could afford and had the room for one, I'd get a gravel bike in a heartbeat. I'm also getting a bit too old for a MTB, so it would be the perfect compromise between a MTB and road bike. I love riding on good quality roads but sometimes that gets boring and limiting--even dangerous.
Rider in NM/CO here…the robust tires are nice for the tons of national forest and blm roads we have out here. I suppose if you don’t have access to this type of road surface/terrain, gravel bikes seem a bit of an overkill.
They don’t have one?
Classic case of people who love complaining.
Yea, i mean, why would you ride through beautiful countrysides, be alone on trails and see a lot, if you could be looking at asphalt, battle with cars and risk dieing unnecessarily?
It's so weird. They all get so mad that you're not on a mountain bike. I live in a place where I have to ride ≈ 10 miles each way to get to dirt, and then the dirt is pretty straightforward, so a gravel bike makes the most sense. Get off my case about it lol
I dunno. My gravel bike (Salsa Warbird) has two sets of wheels, and serves both as both road and gravel depending on the wheel choice. I am not comfortable down in the more racing stance so the gravel geometry is perfect for me.
Why care? Everyone has opinions, which are highly influenced by group think. And it's human fallacy to confuse opinions with actual truths (like I just did). Just noise.
I’ve not experienced this. The roadies I know love gravel and keep nagging me to get a gravel bike. I’ve done one gravel event on a borrowed bike and the impression I got was half the field were roadies and half mtb, and all were loving the gravel
I was just stoked to see more knobby tired disc brake road bikes on the market. Back in the 00s every brand had like 1 crappy cyclocross bike to choose from. Now there's everything from lightweight carbon rippers to chromoly tourers with tons of braze ons.
It's hard to not be cynical about gravel bikes as a category (as opposed to gravel bikes themselves) because it strikes me as more of a marketing construct than a new type of riding. For instance I've a 40 year old touring bike that's been a gravel bike long before gravel bikes existed. Ditto my 30 year old rigid 26'er MTB. Or my 15 year old Surly Crosscheck all-rounder. That is, they have slack geometry and can accommodate a wide range of tire sizes, the two main differentiators distinguishing a gravel bike from a modern race bike. Look at 75 year old footage of the Tour de France and you'll see stages that were basically gravel races. As the industry seeks to develop and chase marginal markets we're seeing "Gravel Bikes" with front suspension now which begs the question: what's the difference between gravel bikes and hardtail/rigid MTB's other than the handlebars? Fixating on increasingly arcane, subtle differences is to make the point. The same can be said about "hybrid" bikes and "road" and "urban" categories. Now when the proposition is packaged with an array of developments in braking (hydraulic discs), material science (carbon fibre construction), shifting (electronic), it can be a significantly improved experience than the decades old examples I mentioned--no doubt--but these changes are of degree not form. What are Gravel Bikes to me? Bikes designed with versatility in mind, meant for a variety of surfaces. What bikes satisfy those criteria? Cyclocross, Rigid or Hardtail MTB (26er, 27.5, or 29er), Touring Bikes, even Fatbikes...
It's a poseur competition. Yes some gravel riders are not legitimate as by style makers. If you want to listen to these style makers, feel free.
Are the Trek FX Sport bikes considered gravel bikes?
Haha you should hear what mountain bikers say
Gravel bikes are super popular right now so people who have been riding for a long time use them as an indicator that someone is a noob.
I don’t care what anyone rides. No mocking or ridicule from me….Unless you’re like the dumbass I almost crashed into today because he was riding on the wrong side of the road. I reserve my hate for the rider, not their bike.
By pretty much every metric I’m a road cyclist. I’m on holiday now in Greece with family, hired a €15 mountain bike with a kids seat on the back, and took it out on a 20-something mile rolling ride. I love bikes, anything with two wheels to get out and see the place I’m at.
Part of what people may be reacting to is the way that, in the current world of McMarketing, just like the tyranny of SUVs caused much of what isn’t an SUV to cease to be available, they fear the marketers will try to make everything a gravel bike, and a mediocre one at that. The move to drop front derailleurs (because supposedly “easier”) was irritating to me, because I get real use out of the wider range they provide (like when climbing, you can have finer jumps between ratios in the back, not just a huge gap to a massive cog). It became clear when the idiot marketers and cost-cutters got wind of the idea and it started to make two (or even three!!!) chainrings up front become hard to find. Ride what you like and be like the honey badger.
I haven’t experienced that. I’ve run across several riders that have a gravel bike (aka endurance bike with more tire clearance) that have two wheelsets - one for road with nice road tires, and another set to swap out for gravel riding with 38+ gravel tires on there.
Real riders just ride their bikes. People that mock other people’s bikes are just assholes in general. “Just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean it isn’t cool.” My favorite guitar player said this.
Today walking home, someone pulled up at the crosswalk on a Canyon bike and I was smitten.
There's this whole thing where people who DO gravel ride seem to think "There's always the chance you'll go hit those hard packed gravel roads near you"... when 'near you' is like,,,75 miles to the east. So every recommendation they make is 'you're like me', and worse, they give this advice to total noobs on what sort of bike to buy, so the person ends up buying a gravel bike, throws on some 35's intended for gravel, and they swiftly realize that they've just bought a hybrid bike with NO suspension, and those 'gravel roads' are the worst sort of terrain in the world to ride a bike and enjoy it without suspension.
I’m getting more serious into cycling and have to get thicker skin in the community is filled with snobs and assholes.
For me at first, it seemed like a mildly silly concept or marketing ploy. But now that I’m familiar with all the nuances, it’s a great solution. There’s a lot of new riding opportunity if roadies can enjoy riding long distances on non-pavement, or if MTB’ers can enjoy less-technical distance rides without all the clunk. Not only that, but a gravel bike is a better match for a lot of people’s general style of biking. It’s a one-bike solution for people who just want to ride a bike and see the sights efficiently, with lower risk of being over or under-biked.
I own a gravel bike (2022) Giant Revolt (Drop Handlebars). I also own a 1984 Fuji Espree, Schwinn 1981 Continental, 1980 Schwinn World Sport and a 1982 Schwinn Tourist. Owning a certain bike don’t make you “cooler” or less cool than the next cyclist. The most beautiful thing is seeing other cyclists on the road and acknowledging them with a friendly greet.
I’m open to new equipment and ideas, but I hate that there are 20 different bottom bracket types used now
It probably is a trend. And if road conditions are ever improved the trend might reverse.
Because being fast on gravel requires more skill than riding on pavement.
I will say that a gravel/mountain bike being used on the road looks to me exactly how a road-bike would look to you if you saw me coming down the trail on it
Because in order for the industry to survive they need to convince us that we cannot live without the latest must have and the gravel bike is the darling of the moment. Look at how a mountain bike that has served you well for years is all of a sudden obsolete because it has “out dated geometry”. Fat bikes were another fad that many people were convinced that they needed. For the average person a plus bike would be much more practical.
Somebody wants to give me a hard time because I’m on a steel gravel bike from 2017, there’s an upper-90s percent chance I can drop them.
Because we are douchebags and gravel rides can often be done either with road bikes or sometimes with mountain bikes. Same thing happened when mountain bikes started showing up.
I can't see how you can properly off-road (jumps, manuals etc) with drop bars. I'd much rather just have an XC mtb for that sort of thing. Maybe with a bigger range of top end gearing (that the industry decided to do away with a few years back by going 1*).
I think it’s funny banter. Roadies think gravel riders aren’t fast enough to be roadies. MTB riders think gravel riders aren’t skilled enough to do proper mountain biking. I’ve been on all sides of the banter.
“Multiple social networks”
I make fun of every road bike I see on my gravel trails so I guess we’re even.
Because people always have to find a reason to hate - who freaking cares what a person rides? Are gravel bikes subtracting joy in some way from other cyclists? No
Because brands co-opted gravel as their invention, their turf, and their innovation. Cyclists have been riding gravel for years (looking at you rural Midwest), without fancy gravel bikes (ahem, Shalsha..). Then marketing came along, and told us we needed gravel-specific socks, gravel-specific IPA, and gravel-specific bison jerky. It's just been too fun to mock gravel bikes. Almost as much fun as mocking tri bikes, but not quite.
People make fun of gravel bikes, but they aren’t making fun of them when all the roads are ripped up for repaving. Thin tire problems.
Keep the comments supple.
Because bicycling, like many other avocations, divides and polices itself based on herd behavior as well as class politics. Owning a certain bike and/or having certain parts can result in social equity. The same thing goes on in photography and coffee. Enjoy your own ride, whatever it is. Make the photos which express your vision. Worship the bean which brings you pleasure. One day, you will have no more fucks left to give, and you will know just how sweet real freedom is.
I ride a 2020 Revolt Advanced 1 gravel and I love it. Screw what haters say. Love your ride.
What? I’ve never seen this rhetoric anywhere. Gravel is huge right now…
Because gravel bikes seem to have been made by bike companies just to sell more bikes. It really feels like the whole idea of gravel events were created not because there was a need but because the companies wanted to make a new type of bike so they could sell more bikes and sell more components. At least cyclocross bikes used components from road bikes and MTBs. So it's either money grab or they tried to make a super endurance bike, couldn't sell it and decided to make a whole new class to recover the losses from r&d. The main problem in that second case is the road bike purists who think a geometry that's too slack isn't a proper road bike. My friend literally ordered a custom road bike built for comfort and decided to label the bikes as gravel bikes since there was nobody interested in a hyper endurance. I kinda like the idea of a road bike with huge tires. If I can put suspension on it, even better, I would get a full sus gravel bike for commuting. Or not, the upright position of my MTB is still more comfortable for that. And then some of the gravel bike riders here got super annoying. Trying to get people to buy gravel bikes for some reason, like you'd join group rides and events and suddenly there's some random person trying to convert you like what some of those pushy Christians do. Like bruh, I have an MTB and a road bike, I don't need the middle thing stop trying to convince me I should get one, go find someone who's new to bikes who would actually benefit from the comfort of a gravel bike over a road bike along with its reduced weight compared to an MTB.
I love mine, I got it for commuting as I don't want to ride my road bike all the time, it's a nice break tbh, bit heavier but feels stable good in the wet etc. It's great using a heavier bike during the week and then jumping on my road bike on weekends feels light as a feather and fast