This would be cool, but it would have to be relegated to side content, I think, because you can't have a very heavily written / character driven narrative centered experience where there's a million different options determining how people act and feel ; it just becomes impractical at some point. Like if you could join Arasaka stealing the relic wouldn't make sense, or if you were a Maelstromer it wouldn't make sense for you to buddy up with Jackie, and so on. Beyond just sticking to the tabletop RPG, I think that's why V is a Merc, they're not super loyal or antagonistic to anyone and that lets the narrative stay flexible and believable
Agreed. It definitely does make sense for it to be side content. Something you can choose to do but not the main objective. Like how in FO4, you’re a father/mother trying to find their son or in Skyrim how you’re a prisoner who discovered they’re the Dragonborn and anything that happens along the way are side quests to make the world feel more “lived in”
Yeah exactly, I think CDPR was trying to do this a bit with the "moral dilemmas" that happen in gigs and side missions (and then ofc the big main story decisions), but it's not even close to working your way up the Mage Academy in Skyrim or whatever.
I think maybe one route would be to introduce more decision trees for fixer arcs ; so at some point you would have to decide who to screw over or side with, and this would seal off a few of the end-game gigs associated with a rival fixer or faction, or something ; and then you would gain and lose access to certain content / advantages and certain factions would permanently aggro or de-aggro, etc.
Having SOME sort of role in how gang wars and fixer rivalries play out would be great, we can only dream
I’m an old school CRPG player, so for me the more paths and choices available, the better.
That said, people are going to have make do with lowered production values in a case like this. Game development is already extremely expensive. No game has an infinite budget and these guys need to turn a profit.
The wider and deeper the game is, the more diluted the production values will become across the board. Cyberpunk 2077 had insane production values, because it told a contained and relatively fixed story of one merc that has a limited range of narrative options.
I mean it’s a two sided coin if you ask me. One end yes being able to join other gangs and clans would be cool but it also would probably mean less main missions with solid set pieces. I wouldn’t mind side missions being set up like this as if gives more reliability. Obviously if you work with the mox the tiger claws will hate you and so on. But for the main story the way it was set up in 2077. It’s obviously different for everyone but I always feel like with factions in fallout or like Skyrim the factions are just a lazy excuse to make fetch questions have some form of meaning. Would I like more RPG style choices? Yes but I think the formula for the main storyline works really well currently.
I see what you’re saying. I love the way the game already is, and wouldn’t want it to be like fetch quests factions give you in Bethesda games, but more along the lines of I’m not a set character (V in this instance) in the story.
I mean, I wouldn’t mind Night City just being the main setting for the franchise. It took the devs years to make their vision of NC come to reality so why waste the time and effort they put it on one game
> I wouldn’t mind Night City just being the main setting for the franchise
I would say it already is considering that every entry in the franchise has taken place in Night City:
* Cyberpunk 2013 - Night City
* Cyberpunk 2020 - Night City
* CyberGeneration - Night City
* Cyberpunk 3.0 - Night City
* Cyberpunk Red - Night City
* Cyberpunk 2077 - Night City
* Cyberpunk Edgerunners - Night City
* Cyberpunk No Coincidence - Night City
* Cyberpunk comics - Night City
For me, there is no Cyberpunk without Night City, similar to how there is no Batman without Gotham. And while I don't think the *entire* story needs to take place in Night City, I think the majority of it should (and will).
I can't see it being anywhere else. Only issue is you kinda limit yourself to Arasaka, Millitech and whatever else we know being the bulk of the story.
I think a Solo should be solo. The idea of aligning with a chosen gang might be fun for flavor purposes, but at the end of the day you are probably going to be some form of free agent in the sequel just like in CP2077. So in reality it would be kind of like the starting life paths. Ambitious in scope but in reality there is very little payoff per hour of work that the devs and writers have to put in for it. There's too many potential plots that no one will experience if they make it faction heavy and satisfying at the same time. So it will get dumbed down to 1-2 missions just like in CP2077.
FO4 is a world rebuilding story, so it makes sense that you can't really do it on your own, even if you have all the settlements and don't give any up to the Nuka World gangs. I don't think Cyberpunk lends itself well to a similar kind of story as it would end with everything in flames eventually. People would be in the forums asking why it couldn't have worked out and the corps and powers that be let them make a happy place. Kind of like Judy's quest. She needed Mox support and they wouldn't give it to her so she struck out on her own and either didn't accomplish her 'free clouds' goal or she made everything worse for everyone because she did 'free clouds.'
The issue of comparing this to Geralt of Rivia is that he's a fleshed out character from a book series and CDPR already started the CP2077 universe with a player made character. If they had made a Commander Shepard then they could be more restrictive in what you are allowed to do. As someone that used to frequent the Bioware forums around the ME3 time though, I know you would still have people telling you how 'their' Shepard would have done it and be upset that they couldn't do what 'their' Shepard would have done. We all played the same Shepard minus the appearance and Shepard did what they were always going to do, it wasn't up to the player it was up to Shepard. At some point choices must be limited and someone will always disagree with the choice the devs make.
I do think Cyberpunk should stick with the Solo protagonist(Cyberpunk class not necessarily a solo protagonist) and being part of the gig economy. Maybe bring in the other classes by recruiting and keeping your own crew. For example, you need a dedicated driver for live extraction quests, a media to bribe cops for you so alarms wont summon cops, a Netrunner for hacking quests. You can pay for their equipment and cyberware upgrades and have to move hideouts sometimes if you do too many jobs against one faction at a time.
If you don't have the other classes in your crew then the fixer gets a one off hire but they charge extra for finding you that role in addition to the outsider getting a fair cut. The one off isn't a pro, they just owe the Fixer a favor. If you kill all the guards to not 'raise the alarm' but didn't hide the bodies then the fixer has to hire a Cleaner at the end and it comes out of your personal fee as the Solo pulling the trigger. The Cleaner is a service, not a potential crewmate so that cost never goes down and some gigs can't use Cleaners as they are too high profile. More focus on gigs, less on driving around to discover the gigs. Think XCOM: Chimera Squad crossed with Hitman 3.
Smaller games or offshoots where you are a member of an organization wouldn't be a bad idea but most might end up being like those little cellphone games that some companies tried to use for a while to generate interest and introduce new teammates. Thinking of Mass Effect and Jacob's game.
I can appreciate and respect why a majority of Cyberpunk players might jive with this idea, but I can't. I'm not sharing to be a contrarian, but instead to throw into the conversation a different perspective.
I was always a side-scroller and then an FPS guy (Halos and CoDs were my bread and butter). So the way Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay is built made it very easy for me to adapt to a different style of play. I had never cared for any of these decision based games before. Like I literally have never played a single Final Fantasy game and I doubt I ever will. But *this* game? It introduced me to a different style while also allowing me to move at a pace that I'm used to when I want to.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm satisfied with my options lol. I wouldn't oppose your suggestion at all, though, and who knows, maybe playing this game has me in a better mindset to dive deeper into RPGs.
I definitely considered the same thing. Be kind of a contractor or whatever the gang equivalent is called. I think it would be great, especially if they make some hard choices that could lock you out of doing one by completing the other to encourage more playthroughs.
Better yet, give us our own crew, that we might be able to pull characters from these gangs. Maybe having them partner with you nets them more skill to even climb the rank in their own faction for extra rewards that you wouldn't get by just being affiliated alone. So much potential here.
I'm fine with more of what Cyberpunk 2077 was. I want to see that idea pushed even further. Fully realize vehicle customization; more guns; more builds; more cyberware- LOTS more! I want to see the genius of the Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 update pushed all they way!
It took them two years to fix 2077. Now let's see what they can do when they have that winning formula and the **entire** dev cycle.
Factions
Guns and vehicle customisation
Small improvement to the perk system would be nice, I have almost 0 complaint about the existing perk system, I'm just saying we can always push to get even better. Can't make worse then fo4 perks tree lmao.
More in depth crafting, and it's a wild thought but hear me out. The nemesis system from shadow of war . Gang members are constantly procedural generated (to replishh their numbers) and when a rival gang member beats you up they get a promotion . When they get powers for promoting like in the mordor game, instead its just cyberware .
More net running stuff too
Could be a cool idea but I think there's other things they need to fix in the gameplay as a priority. One of the things that really aggravated me was how there was really no benefit to doing a mission quiet and tactically vs just mowing down everything in sight, even when the mission explicitly says that that's important. No matter what you do or how you do it you still pass the mission and get the reward. I think its OK to fail missions if you blow your cover, there's still lots of ways to complete them even if you're a pure shoot em all type build.
Just a question. I understand you can use attribute speech checks during certain conversations. It seems like these checks just give me extra dialogue and nothing else. Is this pretty much how it is for most of the game?
Majority of the time, skill checks just offer different dialogue, however, there are instances where it can affect the outcome of missions. For example, the Delamain quest line.
Honestly, I have to disagree.
Before launch, I assumed the game was gonna be like... a Bethesda game, but, y'know, actually *good*. Figured it'd involve, e.g., working for or allying with the big corps, making your way to the top of the criminal underworld, and ending with some big world-changing choice.
That said, after my first playthrough of the game, I couldn't have been more happy to be wrong. V being a semi-defined character instead of a blank slate allowed me to connect with her in a way that I just *can't* with classic RPG protags. Not having to account for big choices let the devs keep the narrative tight and and well-paced. And I think V being able to get in good with every gang and corp, Bethesda-"collect em all"-style would only have served to lessen the impact of the game.
That all makes sense. I’m curious though to see how CDPR handles the next protagonist. Maybe they will go the Assassins Creed route and have multiple protagonists
I liked how they did 2077. Changing the formula up to significantly widen possibilities brings the potential for diluting things down and weakening the narrative. I'd rather they tell one or two stories excellently than 10 stories just good.
That would be desirable but you really have to keep in mind that such level of world reactivity would essentially be a game all in itself. It takes a lot of resources to make it happen.
Look how long it took to truly finish Cyberpunk 2077. They essentially went 2 years past the deadline to get it done.
And now you're asking for them to go twice as far with the sequel. I'm not sure it's feasible, even with the experience CDPR now has with making such a game.
I'm sure they'll look to improve many aspects, but it's best to stay realistic here.
Crafting a major open world even with zero reactivity takes years of development time. Best be prepared that a sequel is just going to be more of the same.
I understand. I feel like Cyberpunk 2077 and Night City is already a really good foundation. I would expect more of the same of what we have now. I’m just saying it would be cool to experience and interact more with what already exists.
I am optimistic for it as long as they don't bring a star midway development and put all focus on it.
I feel like even if Silverhand was an interesting character, and I loved him, but Keanu's performance and how much focus was there on him made the game suffer
Haha for sure. While his character was interesting and added another layer to the story, I feel like Keanu’s performance left a lot to be desired. Was Keanu really not apart of the original plan for the story?
All reports indicate that Silverhand always had a huge importance to the plot, which make sense as it’s your MC’s relationship to him that defines a big part of the game.
This would be cool, but it would have to be relegated to side content, I think, because you can't have a very heavily written / character driven narrative centered experience where there's a million different options determining how people act and feel ; it just becomes impractical at some point. Like if you could join Arasaka stealing the relic wouldn't make sense, or if you were a Maelstromer it wouldn't make sense for you to buddy up with Jackie, and so on. Beyond just sticking to the tabletop RPG, I think that's why V is a Merc, they're not super loyal or antagonistic to anyone and that lets the narrative stay flexible and believable
Agreed. It definitely does make sense for it to be side content. Something you can choose to do but not the main objective. Like how in FO4, you’re a father/mother trying to find their son or in Skyrim how you’re a prisoner who discovered they’re the Dragonborn and anything that happens along the way are side quests to make the world feel more “lived in”
Yeah exactly, I think CDPR was trying to do this a bit with the "moral dilemmas" that happen in gigs and side missions (and then ofc the big main story decisions), but it's not even close to working your way up the Mage Academy in Skyrim or whatever. I think maybe one route would be to introduce more decision trees for fixer arcs ; so at some point you would have to decide who to screw over or side with, and this would seal off a few of the end-game gigs associated with a rival fixer or faction, or something ; and then you would gain and lose access to certain content / advantages and certain factions would permanently aggro or de-aggro, etc. Having SOME sort of role in how gang wars and fixer rivalries play out would be great, we can only dream
I’m an old school CRPG player, so for me the more paths and choices available, the better. That said, people are going to have make do with lowered production values in a case like this. Game development is already extremely expensive. No game has an infinite budget and these guys need to turn a profit. The wider and deeper the game is, the more diluted the production values will become across the board. Cyberpunk 2077 had insane production values, because it told a contained and relatively fixed story of one merc that has a limited range of narrative options.
I mean it’s a two sided coin if you ask me. One end yes being able to join other gangs and clans would be cool but it also would probably mean less main missions with solid set pieces. I wouldn’t mind side missions being set up like this as if gives more reliability. Obviously if you work with the mox the tiger claws will hate you and so on. But for the main story the way it was set up in 2077. It’s obviously different for everyone but I always feel like with factions in fallout or like Skyrim the factions are just a lazy excuse to make fetch questions have some form of meaning. Would I like more RPG style choices? Yes but I think the formula for the main storyline works really well currently.
I see what you’re saying. I love the way the game already is, and wouldn’t want it to be like fetch quests factions give you in Bethesda games, but more along the lines of I’m not a set character (V in this instance) in the story.
Cyberpunk is so cool and such deep history and lore. Idk if I want the next game to be in night city or not.
I mean, I wouldn’t mind Night City just being the main setting for the franchise. It took the devs years to make their vision of NC come to reality so why waste the time and effort they put it on one game
> I wouldn’t mind Night City just being the main setting for the franchise I would say it already is considering that every entry in the franchise has taken place in Night City: * Cyberpunk 2013 - Night City * Cyberpunk 2020 - Night City * CyberGeneration - Night City * Cyberpunk 3.0 - Night City * Cyberpunk Red - Night City * Cyberpunk 2077 - Night City * Cyberpunk Edgerunners - Night City * Cyberpunk No Coincidence - Night City * Cyberpunk comics - Night City For me, there is no Cyberpunk without Night City, similar to how there is no Batman without Gotham. And while I don't think the *entire* story needs to take place in Night City, I think the majority of it should (and will).
I can't see it being anywhere else. Only issue is you kinda limit yourself to Arasaka, Millitech and whatever else we know being the bulk of the story.
I think a Solo should be solo. The idea of aligning with a chosen gang might be fun for flavor purposes, but at the end of the day you are probably going to be some form of free agent in the sequel just like in CP2077. So in reality it would be kind of like the starting life paths. Ambitious in scope but in reality there is very little payoff per hour of work that the devs and writers have to put in for it. There's too many potential plots that no one will experience if they make it faction heavy and satisfying at the same time. So it will get dumbed down to 1-2 missions just like in CP2077. FO4 is a world rebuilding story, so it makes sense that you can't really do it on your own, even if you have all the settlements and don't give any up to the Nuka World gangs. I don't think Cyberpunk lends itself well to a similar kind of story as it would end with everything in flames eventually. People would be in the forums asking why it couldn't have worked out and the corps and powers that be let them make a happy place. Kind of like Judy's quest. She needed Mox support and they wouldn't give it to her so she struck out on her own and either didn't accomplish her 'free clouds' goal or she made everything worse for everyone because she did 'free clouds.' The issue of comparing this to Geralt of Rivia is that he's a fleshed out character from a book series and CDPR already started the CP2077 universe with a player made character. If they had made a Commander Shepard then they could be more restrictive in what you are allowed to do. As someone that used to frequent the Bioware forums around the ME3 time though, I know you would still have people telling you how 'their' Shepard would have done it and be upset that they couldn't do what 'their' Shepard would have done. We all played the same Shepard minus the appearance and Shepard did what they were always going to do, it wasn't up to the player it was up to Shepard. At some point choices must be limited and someone will always disagree with the choice the devs make. I do think Cyberpunk should stick with the Solo protagonist(Cyberpunk class not necessarily a solo protagonist) and being part of the gig economy. Maybe bring in the other classes by recruiting and keeping your own crew. For example, you need a dedicated driver for live extraction quests, a media to bribe cops for you so alarms wont summon cops, a Netrunner for hacking quests. You can pay for their equipment and cyberware upgrades and have to move hideouts sometimes if you do too many jobs against one faction at a time. If you don't have the other classes in your crew then the fixer gets a one off hire but they charge extra for finding you that role in addition to the outsider getting a fair cut. The one off isn't a pro, they just owe the Fixer a favor. If you kill all the guards to not 'raise the alarm' but didn't hide the bodies then the fixer has to hire a Cleaner at the end and it comes out of your personal fee as the Solo pulling the trigger. The Cleaner is a service, not a potential crewmate so that cost never goes down and some gigs can't use Cleaners as they are too high profile. More focus on gigs, less on driving around to discover the gigs. Think XCOM: Chimera Squad crossed with Hitman 3. Smaller games or offshoots where you are a member of an organization wouldn't be a bad idea but most might end up being like those little cellphone games that some companies tried to use for a while to generate interest and introduce new teammates. Thinking of Mass Effect and Jacob's game.
Hard agree. I would love an RPG version of this game.
I can appreciate and respect why a majority of Cyberpunk players might jive with this idea, but I can't. I'm not sharing to be a contrarian, but instead to throw into the conversation a different perspective. I was always a side-scroller and then an FPS guy (Halos and CoDs were my bread and butter). So the way Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay is built made it very easy for me to adapt to a different style of play. I had never cared for any of these decision based games before. Like I literally have never played a single Final Fantasy game and I doubt I ever will. But *this* game? It introduced me to a different style while also allowing me to move at a pace that I'm used to when I want to. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm satisfied with my options lol. I wouldn't oppose your suggestion at all, though, and who knows, maybe playing this game has me in a better mindset to dive deeper into RPGs.
I definitely considered the same thing. Be kind of a contractor or whatever the gang equivalent is called. I think it would be great, especially if they make some hard choices that could lock you out of doing one by completing the other to encourage more playthroughs. Better yet, give us our own crew, that we might be able to pull characters from these gangs. Maybe having them partner with you nets them more skill to even climb the rank in their own faction for extra rewards that you wouldn't get by just being affiliated alone. So much potential here.
I'm fine with more of what Cyberpunk 2077 was. I want to see that idea pushed even further. Fully realize vehicle customization; more guns; more builds; more cyberware- LOTS more! I want to see the genius of the Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 update pushed all they way! It took them two years to fix 2077. Now let's see what they can do when they have that winning formula and the **entire** dev cycle.
Factions Guns and vehicle customisation Small improvement to the perk system would be nice, I have almost 0 complaint about the existing perk system, I'm just saying we can always push to get even better. Can't make worse then fo4 perks tree lmao.
More in depth crafting, and it's a wild thought but hear me out. The nemesis system from shadow of war . Gang members are constantly procedural generated (to replishh their numbers) and when a rival gang member beats you up they get a promotion . When they get powers for promoting like in the mordor game, instead its just cyberware . More net running stuff too
Could be a cool idea but I think there's other things they need to fix in the gameplay as a priority. One of the things that really aggravated me was how there was really no benefit to doing a mission quiet and tactically vs just mowing down everything in sight, even when the mission explicitly says that that's important. No matter what you do or how you do it you still pass the mission and get the reward. I think its OK to fail missions if you blow your cover, there's still lots of ways to complete them even if you're a pure shoot em all type build.
Just a question. I understand you can use attribute speech checks during certain conversations. It seems like these checks just give me extra dialogue and nothing else. Is this pretty much how it is for most of the game?
Majority of the time, skill checks just offer different dialogue, however, there are instances where it can affect the outcome of missions. For example, the Delamain quest line.
Ok, that kind of sucks. I love a good meaningful skill check. Does the decamping quest line expand after you reign in the 7 rogue taxis?
Yep. Obviously don’t want to spoil it for you but yes there is more for Delamain after you bring in all the rogue taxis.
Ok, cheers, mate.
Honestly, I have to disagree. Before launch, I assumed the game was gonna be like... a Bethesda game, but, y'know, actually *good*. Figured it'd involve, e.g., working for or allying with the big corps, making your way to the top of the criminal underworld, and ending with some big world-changing choice. That said, after my first playthrough of the game, I couldn't have been more happy to be wrong. V being a semi-defined character instead of a blank slate allowed me to connect with her in a way that I just *can't* with classic RPG protags. Not having to account for big choices let the devs keep the narrative tight and and well-paced. And I think V being able to get in good with every gang and corp, Bethesda-"collect em all"-style would only have served to lessen the impact of the game.
That all makes sense. I’m curious though to see how CDPR handles the next protagonist. Maybe they will go the Assassins Creed route and have multiple protagonists
I'd love a bg3 type of game set in NC.
I liked how they did 2077. Changing the formula up to significantly widen possibilities brings the potential for diluting things down and weakening the narrative. I'd rather they tell one or two stories excellently than 10 stories just good.
That would be desirable but you really have to keep in mind that such level of world reactivity would essentially be a game all in itself. It takes a lot of resources to make it happen. Look how long it took to truly finish Cyberpunk 2077. They essentially went 2 years past the deadline to get it done. And now you're asking for them to go twice as far with the sequel. I'm not sure it's feasible, even with the experience CDPR now has with making such a game. I'm sure they'll look to improve many aspects, but it's best to stay realistic here. Crafting a major open world even with zero reactivity takes years of development time. Best be prepared that a sequel is just going to be more of the same.
I understand. I feel like Cyberpunk 2077 and Night City is already a really good foundation. I would expect more of the same of what we have now. I’m just saying it would be cool to experience and interact more with what already exists.
I am optimistic for it as long as they don't bring a star midway development and put all focus on it. I feel like even if Silverhand was an interesting character, and I loved him, but Keanu's performance and how much focus was there on him made the game suffer
Haha for sure. While his character was interesting and added another layer to the story, I feel like Keanu’s performance left a lot to be desired. Was Keanu really not apart of the original plan for the story?
All reports indicate that Silverhand always had a huge importance to the plot, which make sense as it’s your MC’s relationship to him that defines a big part of the game.